March 4, 2024 • 53 mins
Check out this intriguing discussion on concealed carry self-defense and the moral dilemma of taking a life to save another. Caden from Illinois kicks off the conversation with a deep question for Granger and his special guest, Marv. Join in as they explore the complexities of this issue, touching on Mennonite teachings of non-resistance and the rare yet critical scenarios where self-defense becomes a matter of life and death. Dive into the dialogue and share your thoughts in the comments below!
In another question, Granger and Marv addresses a listener's dilemma about having his dad live with him. Bill, a 23-year-old from Oklahoma, shares his concerns about balancing family duty with personal growth. As Granger delves into Bill's predicament, he offers insights on maintaining boundaries while navigating family responsibilities. Tune in to explore this unique scenario and discover Granger's perspective on this complex issue.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're not just talking about self defense here. We're talking
about at the stake of your wife's life. An intruder
breaks into your house and he is going to kill
members of your family. Well, what's up, everybody? Welcome to
(00:25):
the podcast. A special episode for me, maybe special episode
for you two. I don't know, absolutely so, everybody. This
is Marv miller, a, a Mennonite pastor. But that's really
irrelevant compared to what I'm about to say next. Long
time listener to the podcast, first listener to the podcast
(00:48):
turned guest.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I should pat myself on the back.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
That's how literally how we met was through this podcast. Yeah,
you emailed the podcast. That's what we do here. I
just read your emails and you were one of the emails,
and it was very intriguing to me. I'm not exactly
sure it wasn't that it was more special than other emails,
but something in my spirit says, reply to this guy.
(01:18):
And that reply. We can't remember if it was two
or three years ago you emailed, but that reply led
to a brotherhood between you and I, a friendship that
has grown just from one email and from my reply.
That led to a few more replies that led to
a phone call between us. You live in South Carolina
(01:40):
with your family. I live in Texas. We then met
in Pittsburgh for a concert of mine.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yes, just last September.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Last September, and then there was a conference, a pastor's
conference in Austin, and I said, hey, Marv, what about
you come to this pastor's conference and come stay with
us in the barn. So that's literally what you've been
doing the last three or four days is staying here
at the house. And now you're on the podcast the
(02:11):
same place, full circle where we first met. I think
it's just a it's a fascinating story just for me
what this podcast has done in the friendship that like,
if if nothing else mattered on this podcast, I got
a great friend out of it.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah. Well, it's it's really an honor and it feels
so undeserving to actually be here. I was talking with
my wife the other day and it just feels like
we're walking on holy ground here because, like she said,
there's no reason on earth that we should be here,
and the likelihood of Granger reaching out, like if you're
(02:49):
reaching out to an email that I sent, you know
what caught your attention and why did you decide to
reach out to me, and I just love the thought
that are you know what I wrote. I wrote a
little bit of my testimony, and somehow our spirits connected
in that email. And definitely our friendship was built off
(03:11):
of our spiritual connection. And that's we're not really friends
as much as we're brothers. True and uh and so
to actually be able to well, when I started listening
to your podcast, I connected with your perspective. It resonated
with me when I when I listened and I had
first heard your music, and then when I started actually
(03:34):
uh listening to the podcast, which I I'm not sure
at what point I found out you actually had a podcast,
I want to start listening to it. I knew right
away that your life was changed and you had found
what you're looking for. And of course I wasn't always
making the connection between what you were saying in your
podcast and some of the music, and that that was
the curious question. That's why I emailed you.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah you want me to tell them, because yeah, you do,
because they might be thinking, what in the world did
he say? In an E that made Granger actually reply
because I never ever reply.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
I just instead put him in the queue.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
By the way, that email is podcast at grangersmith dot com.
You email and we answer your questions. That's what the
format is. You emailed, and I, instead of putting it
in the queue to read it on the podcast, I
felt compelled to reply. People might be thinking, what was it? Well,
it was part of your testimony. But then the end
was what will you do? I'm paraphrasing, what will you
(04:27):
do with Earl Dibbles Junior? And how will that how
will that character still bring people to the truth?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yes, like, how do you connect Earl Dibbles with your faith?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And at the time when you emailed, I already knew
that I was going to Lord willing leave touring, that
things were going to change for me, and you are
almost eluding it. Hey, you know that the road you're on,
you know where this is headed. If you take, if
you take what you believe Granger to its fullest extent,
(05:01):
you're going to start leaving the secular life behind.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yes, you knew that in a way, Yes, yes, I did.
I mean that's exactly so it's.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Either that or you don't really believe what you're saying,
do you.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I was so curious how you're going to make the connection,
because I was thinking, I've heard you talk enough. I
know you've had to have thought about this, and because
I knew at that point, well, you weren't just living
two different lives. I knew you had made a connection somehow.
There was some reason that you were singing the songs
you were singing, but then also sharing the faith you
(05:33):
were sharing. And not every song, of course, there was
a few that caught my attention, and I think the
first one that really made me start thinking, I need
to ask him a question. And I never told you this,
but was the song if You're Happy in if your
Country and you know it raised a beer? Yeah, And
that was a children's song that I knew growing up,
(05:55):
If You're happy and you know it clap your hands.
And then this was like a rewritten song, and so
so I thought, now, how does he connect that with
his with what I hear you say on the podcast.
And that's what really made me start thinking about the question.
Not that well, I'm I'm from the men Inite culture,
and so that just caught my attention. That song that
(06:16):
you'd taken a children's song and rewrote it into a
country song like that, I knew there was a connection somehow,
so I was looking forward to hearing you explain it
when you actually emailed back and said, I'm trying to
remember exactly what your words were. He said, a lot
will be changing for me in the next ten to
twelve months, and I don't think Earl will be making
(06:37):
the journey with me. I think that's what she said.
It took me off guard. I expected to hear some
kind of a response of well, this is the reason
I sing this and then I say this, and not
everybody may say there was a conflict or anything. It
was just sure. It was just that question that your
answer that was just well I'm actually changing directtions here
(07:01):
was so authentic and so honest and just it really
caught me off guard. And then I knew you were
for real when you responded what you did that like
took all the doubtside of my mind. So then after that,
listening to your podcast is where I It's like your
perspective connected with me, and I just built a trust
off of the perspective. You know, I may have given
(07:22):
different answers different times as a as a pastor. I
love listening to your podcast because it I run those
questions and then your answers through my head all the time.
You know, when when I do counseling, when we're meeting
with young couples or young people, you know, we're essentially
sitting across the campfire from people in person. We have
them in our living room a lot, and those questions
(07:44):
have really given me years worth of experience in just knowing, oh,
this is the direction that would be good to go
with a question like this, So what does this really
help me?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
What is this room?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
The perspective of sitting in this chair looking out instead
of looking from the camera in how does that perspective
for you?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
What is that like?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Well, I had no idea what to expect, and I'm
not familiar with talking on a podcast, especially not with
like a video podcast, and.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
So I weird, looks great on video.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
We'll wait, We'll have to wait and make that call.
But so so, sitting here, it feels surreal, really it does.
But it's in another way, it feels just like you
and I are having a conversation. It really does. It's
a it's a nice atmosphere you have here and I'm
(08:44):
looking forward to.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
And that's so cool, And you're speaking for all the
people that have listened as long as you have for
several years, that have wondered what it might be like
sitting in that chair.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, it's it's it's amazing. It actually feels good so far.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well, I'm not going just because you're here. I'm not
going to change the format of what we do. We're
still going to answer questions. And I think it would
be interesting because we're both brothers in Christ. But we
do come from different cultures, yes, quite different, And just
like a lot of people that are listening right now
come from different cultures, and that's okay, and so I
(09:21):
think a different culture will probably prompt a different answer.
Before we get started, I will say something ironic about
this conversation today is that Earl Dibbles actually filmed video
this morning.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So Earl is not dead. He filmed the.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Video because there is a girl at our office at
the Yegee Farm that has a cyber truck, the Tesla truck,
and so we filmed Earl's reaction to a Tesla truck
and what he thinks about it.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
That's awesome, But the Earl these days is different. I
didn't think Earl should be killed.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
He's not dead.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
How did I say he should be converted, not condemned.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
He should be verded. I could do it, so.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
The first question, by the way, if I'll say it again,
the email is podcast at grangersmith dot com, and you're
you're emailing my producer ant Man, who is going to
put your question in Q. So we ask just don't
send the same question a bunch for ant Man's sake,
and don't send it longer than about a phone length,
because it makes it harder to read in this in
(10:23):
this setting. The first question and I already I've already
scanned it because I could see it right now, and
this is already going to be interesting with a mind
night pastor. It comes from Caden. It says, Hey, Granger,
what are your thoughts on concealed Carrie self defense? Is
it okay to kill someone if it saves someone else's life.
(10:44):
I know this is a deep question, and I'm just
curious what your thoughts are. I enjoy your music and
your podcast. Thanks Caden Anderson from Illinois.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Uh, great way to start.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I'm really interested in this because in the mind of
night culture, you.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
You follow the.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I don't want to say law, you follow the.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Teaching, teaching of.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Non resistance.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Is that what it's called, that of non resistance, and
that's that's literally taking the Gospel to the fullest extent
of believing Jesus when he says, love your enemies, turn
the other cheek. So I'll start with you, Marv. What
are your thoughts. Of course, we're not just talking about
(11:34):
self defense here. We're talking about at the stake of
your wife's life, an intruder breaks into your house and
he is going to kill members of your family. I
would love to hear your answer on that.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
So the the worst case scenario is something that is
always given out as an example. Sure, so this is
a worst case scenario, and let me just go ahead.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Very very rare for this scenario to happen. If if
once in a lifetime, that's one in a thousand families.
I don't personally know anyone that this has actually happened to,
but you're right, we throw the exception out.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Is what do you do here?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
So I'm not trying to trap you, no gotcha or
just I'm asking.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
What everyone is thinking.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yes, okay, yes, and worst case scenario is actually good
to talk about because it can give you then a
good precedent to build off of for other scenarios that
are not worst case, but often they don't have good answers.
So I can give good things to think about. But
the thought of and this is a conversation that has
(12:47):
been happening for a long time around a lot of
dinner tables and couches, and even around Mennonite dinner tables,
what if this would happen? What would you do? And
it's hard to know what you would do. For me,
I don't know what I would do. So the position
that I generally take, and I don't condemn someone for
(13:07):
taking a different position. I have good friends that that
actually carry and they actually have a weapon of self
defense at their disposal. I've decided to take the position. Well,
I've decided to not put myself in a position where
I have to decide I'm going to use a weapon
(13:29):
that can kill someone or not, And so I don't.
I don't sleep with a pistol beside my bed. I
don't have a pistol that I carry on me on
a regular basis. And I've chosen not to do that because, well,
for me, it comes down to it, it's a it's
a step of faith, because I would want nothing better
than to be able to fully protect my family. I'm
(13:52):
a protector and a provider, but I'm also called to
trust God. And by by saying that, I'm not saying
that someone that decides to have concealed cary and actually
use a weapon isn't trusting God. I'm just speaking for myself,
and I think i'd be speaking to for a lot
within the culture, it's a step of faith to decide
(14:13):
to not put yourself in that position where you have
to make that choice. And a lot of times, you know,
we would look at the scripture where Jesus would would
have told his disciples that he that lives by the
sword will die by the sword paraphrasing there. Sure, but
that if you decide to have that as your protection,
(14:35):
then very likely that will have to be your protection.
That's just something to think about.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Now.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Great, I would love to hear your thoughts. I don't
know if you have any other questions for me, I'd
be happy to answer. That's just the short version of
kind of where we find ourselves.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
That's that's building up to it. So now it happens
you're saying your answer is I don't know what I
would do but I'm not putting myself in a position
to have something readily available to kill, right.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Okay, Yes, that's not saying that I wouldn't use what
I have to try to take care of the situation.
But for sure i'd be crying out to the Lord
in a situation that like that, knowing that he's actually
seeing what's happening, and that it's certainly not in my
heart to It's not from a position of being a
coward or a position of not shouldering my responsibility. We
(15:28):
want to shoulder our responsibility as men with all our
hearts in our culture. But it would be the Anabaptists,
and the position of non resistance would largely be taken
from Jesus attitude of if my servants, if my disciples
were of this world, if my kingdom was of this world,
then would my servants fight. I think that's how he
(15:48):
said it. If my kingdom was of this world, then
would my servants servants fight? But now my kingdom's not
not from here, And based on that, he let the
Jews and the Romans capture him and cify him. And
whether that's a totally accurate interpretation of that verse, I
think that's where a kind of a foundational verse for
the Mennonites to live a non resistant life, and it's
(16:12):
been a blessed life. You know, the Mennonites were severely
persecuted when they first broke off of the Catholic Church
back in the beginning of like in the fifteen hundreds,
and it was their non resistant stance that really made
them who they were. It was kind of their their
foundation of one of their foundational beliefs away from the beginning.
(16:37):
So there's just some stuff to think about.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, I don't have a problem with anything you said,
and I don't know if I would answer it differently.
I love though, I love the idea that I'm not
going to have something on me that would tempt me
to taking a life because I've I've joked in the
(17:00):
past with Amber like as a Christian, Well, I'm taking
out all the kneecaps. I'm gonna take out their kneecaps
and I'm gonna preach the gospel to them.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I can't say that.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
My head as I'm wrapping a tourniquet around their leg
in my living room. Yes, in the middle of the night,
I'm wrapping a tourniquet around their leg and telling them
about Jesus with nine to one one in my left hand.
You know that's I like that, I do, but it's
going to another level saying and I'm also not going
to have anything in my house that would tempt me
to blow in their head off, because who knows in
(17:33):
that moment if that's what you would be tempted to do.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I don't have a problem with your answer.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I I think, first of all, once again, I have
to reiterate on this podcast. Right now, we're talking about
an extreme, isolated occurrence that is very very rare. To
sleep with a pistol under your pillow for this kind
of scenario is as like winning the lottery if it
(18:00):
actually happened, especially living in a first world country. And
there are a lot of people that will disagree, but
I would challenge them to test their heart and their faith.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
If that.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Resistance in their mind to this idea is coming from
culture or coming from God.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
There are biblical.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Arguments to make for an armed resistance. There are biblical
arguments from thirteen. For Christians serving in law enforcement or military,
there is a biblical argument for it, and there's a
biblical argument against it. People email. You've probably heard all
the time. I feel a calling to go into the military,
(18:49):
but I'm now I'm torn as a Christian if I
should be someone who kills. I know that we have
a lot of stories in World War Two where there
was a draft and people went in. They followed the
Romans thirteen governmental rule of going into the draft because
that's that was the law. But then when they got
into the to the army, they said, I will not
(19:10):
carry a weapon. I'll do anything else. I will carry
the coffee, I'll help with the tourniquets, I'll carry the
sick out.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
But I can't. I can't.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I need a religious exemption for carrying a weapon. So
we do see a faithful authority to Romans thirteen carrying
out the law and a faithful observance to Jesus in
non resistance. So I think it could it can work.
There's arguments either way. I think if you were going
(19:43):
to fall on one side and say this is the
side I'm falling on, I think non resistance is decide.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
To fall on.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Well. I think sometimes there's not explicit, like you said,
arguments both ways. It's not always completely clear or right
and wrong, But sometimes there's blessing that goes with believing
a certain way. The thing with you could say, the
thing that we could fault on as non resistant people
(20:11):
is that non resistance is a lifestyle. It's not just
deciding not to carry a pistol. But often we would
draw a line there, we're not going to kill someone,
but then we really don't live non resistant in other
areas of our life. And for us to really believe that,
you know, we're not typically involved in the court system,
(20:32):
we're not typically involved in we're not considered patriotic, we
don't involve ourselves in governmental affairs in general. Now, Mennonites,
they're kind of on a spectrum of conservative liberal. I
guess that's the right words to use. But sure there's
some that are more involved than others, for sure, But
in general, we would consider that a lifestyle, not just
(20:54):
an instance based or a specific thing like carrying a pistol.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
You're you're doing such a great job, and I'm it's
occurring to me as we're talking that I also don't
want to put you in a in a situation because
you are a pastor representing your church, and you're also
representing a culture and and there are many Mennonites that
listen to this podcast, many Amish, which maybe we could
talk later about the difference between the two, since a
(21:21):
lot of people associate the two cultures together.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Even though they're not.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
So I don't want to put you in this situation.
I don't I don't okay, put in I don't want
to put you.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
I don't want to put you in a corner.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
It feels like an opportunity for me. Great, and it's
wonderful great.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
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wedding with Amber? What song did you use? And my
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kind of what I've always done, and that's been what
I've enjoyed doing, is capturing a moment with lyrics and
melody and then and then making that very special moment
(21:58):
of our lives live forever through that song. So then
when I hear that song, I think back to that moment.
It connects it and so I'm not using someone else's
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Next question comes from Sonja and it says, Hey, Granger
my husband and I or are newlyweds, and recently we
(24:39):
bought twenty acres in Middle Tennessee. We're planning on getting
chickens and goats on our property. However, we're also planning
on starting a family very soon, Lord Willing, considering you
have chickens, goats, and children, do you think would be
unwise for us to get children and goats now as
we begin trying to start a family, we both work
full time jobs out outside of the home. In case
(25:01):
that pays for in case that plays in a factor
of your opinion. Thanks for all you do, Sonja. I
think that's how you say it's Sonja. Okay, So thinking
about this question, you are newlyweds. Congratulations on twenty acres.
That's incredible for newlyweds. What a blessing that is. And
(25:22):
you're considering getting some animals. But you're wondering if it's
unwise to get chickens and goats. Why do you think
she asked that? Do you know why she asked that?
I don't know if there'd be a financial thing.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I was thinking more maybe a responsibility thing of needing
someone maybe to care for them while they're busy with
If they have a young baby or something. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
So this is it's a heart position, Sonja. It's going
to be a where's your heart in this? Are you
needing to work your job and your husband's needed to
work his job so that you could pay for the
twenty acres and then you're going to get animals that
you're going to have an extra responsibility, and then you
want children. I think that might be starting to get
(26:09):
unwise because now you don't have time to be with
the children, and your husband definitely doesn't. So if that's
what you're asking, I think, yes, I would say unwise,
but I'm not sure if that's what you mean. But
I do know you said we both work full time
(26:29):
jobs outside of the home.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
If that is.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
An absolute requirement to keep up with the payments, say
it's a problem.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
You agree with that, Mark.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yes, it's easy to in society around us to think, well,
that's just a normal thing that they the husband and
the wife work, and you often will. Your lifestyle reflects
that where you both have to work. Yeah, and it's
hard to it's hard to have a concept of just
the husband working and the wife being a stay at
(27:02):
home I've seen time and again we're often it's normal
for when you have a new baby that the mom
stays home just long enough until she kind of gets
on her feet, and when the baby's ready, they go
off to daycare and she goes back to work to
support a lifestyle. But my opinion would be twenty acres
(27:23):
isn't worth the sacrifice. If that's what it.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Takes you said to support a lifestyle, that's the key
we're not talking about. Husband has a back injury from
falling off the ladder, mom has to go to work
to make ends meet. You guys have a one betroom
apartment in the city. You're doing the best you can
just to put beans in the pot. It's not what
we're talking about. We're saying supporting a lifestyle of a
(27:50):
twenty acre farm in Middle Tennessee with animals and you're working.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Two jobs to keep that up. I would say.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Downgrade the life style until you reach a point where
you go, I am fully available for children. And then
if you could if you could buy chickens and have
chickens roaming around the property and you could hold you
could hold your possessions with open palms. I love to
think of it. If you were if you have clothesed
fists around these possessions in terms of I have to work,
(28:22):
I have to do, we have to fulfill this, and
then once we get it, we have to hang on
to it. And if we'd be devastated it, if we
had to share it with anyone, we would be devastated.
Then your heart position has to be readjusted. I think
that's what you're asking.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, this is probably a dream come true for them
to have a twenty acre farm as newlyweds. But this
would be my thoughts that children are a gift from God.
Chickens and goats aren't necessarily and those may be able
to come in time, but don't don't turn your dream
into a nightmare.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So, speaking of twenty acre farms chickens, what's the difference
between Amish and Mennonites.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Probably the size of their farms. Uh So, the just
as a quick history thing that the Mennonites would have
came from the Catholic Church, and after the Mennonites were
a people for some time, the Amish actually broke off
of the of the Mennonites. And wow, there's uh, there's
(29:25):
a lot of so Jacob Ahmond would have been the
where the Amish name would have come from from the
name Amen. And so I'm not sure, your little brothers,
I guess you could say it that way.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
The the Amish would they would have they would believe
in salvation, but that would vary some by by. Again,
the there's different am there's a spectrum of Amish just
for practical purposes. There's there's old order and there's new.
(30:00):
But then there's also a lot of different sects of
Amish in that and they would typically in their range,
it would it would all be dependent on lifestyle. Now,
the commonality of the Amish was they generally they can't
have cars, so they drive horse and buggy or the
higher driver to take them places. But it would mostly
(30:24):
be along lifestyle, and it would be very much. They
would generally look at separation from the world would be
a physical thing. So their foundational belief is that God,
from what I understand, is that God never changes and
so therefore if we follow God, we should never change.
And so that's kind of why the Amish could appear
(30:46):
stuck in time because they take that very literally. But
there's a lot of a lot of man made well,
it's a man made system, but it's from the way
they interpret certain scripture verses. And whenever you have a
man made system that strong, there's a strong authority that
goes with it. And there's also there's a lot of rules,
(31:09):
and of course when you have a lot of rules,
well then you still have humans are humans, no matter
if they're Amish or not. And so there's a lot
of bending and twisting and reshaping and and so it's
amazing how some of the Amish find ways to actually
still have fairly modern conveniences without really breaking the rules.
(31:32):
It's it's ingenuity at its finest.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
So I saw something similar with the Orthodox Jews, and yes,
okay that broughably some similarities.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
They find ways around rules that they have.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Made, and us Mennonites are not all that different. Sometimes.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, so there's an interpretation from scripture, and a rule
is made from an interpretation, and then in order to
live a modern life, there's exceptions made or not exceptions.
There's around the rules that they have made from the interpretation.
It's so interesting. Yes, with Jews, we're not talking about
the Bible, we're talking about the Torah. But on the Sabbath,
(32:12):
you can't use an elevator. You can't push an elevator button. Amazing,
So everybody has made sabbath elevators that go up to
the top floor and then back down one floor at
a time, so that you could just walk in. The
door opens and you walk in, and you ride it
up till you get to your place and it opens
and you walk out.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
So it's just a way around. You're still riding the elevator.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yes, you're still using the modern convenience of the electric elevator.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
That type of mindset does make for so many inconsistencies,
and we could talk a lot about that. But what
the Amish do well at is their very strong community.
They're very loyal to each other. Yes, they have usually
big families and amazing craftsmen. Yes, maybe they have passed
(33:01):
on a quality work ethic very well. They put high
marks on that I believe, and so the there's things
the Amish have. Uh, they're really a throwback in time
that they live with values and in in some ways Mennonites.
The similarities would be that we both believe at some
level that being separate from the world affects our lifestyle,
(33:25):
affects us In a in a physical way, but the
Mennonites have typically decided to live with more modern conveniences
in our in the way we live our life. We
drive vehicles, we we buy our clothes for the most part.
Now that that depends on where who you are. If
(33:46):
you're a real conservative Mennonite, they may, especially the women,
may make their their dresses. But the Amish would for
the most part, uh make all of their clothes, or
they may have somebody Amish make clothes, and may we
sell them in a store in an Amish store. But
their their pants and shirts and even their I think
(34:06):
often their shoes, and you know, the dresses, their head coverings.
All of that is all made by Amish, to my understanding,
and often homemade.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
When I go to Pennsylvania, I love to buy or Indiana,
I love to buy from from the Amish store. In fact,
we have two former Amish that make our chicken coop,
our our garden, my greenhouse. We have actually the Roman Cross.
I have her in the backyard, made by Amish. Because
(34:37):
their work ethic and their their precision craftsmanship is unmatched.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
They also very one thing they do almost exclusively. They
pass on a language, the Pennsylvania Dutch language. The men
Andites do that, some the Amish do it much better.
Can you speak it ikon i khondaj? Yeah, he switched that.
Sell them my Ash language. Vest That means yes, I
can talk Dutch, I'm fluent in it and I Dutch
(35:03):
was my first language. I knew that before I knew English.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I did not know that more.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Wow, fascinating conversation. Okay, let's get to another question here.
It's from Shyenne. Says Hey Granger. My husband and I
are twenty six years old, brand new parents of a
little boy. We've been together for eight years and have
gone through many trials together, loss of parents, siblings, miscarriages, etc.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
All of which have.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Made us struggle with our faith throughout these years. While
I began and continuously work on my relationship with the Lord,
my husband will often challenge or mock me when I speak.
My worry is that our son will grow up hearing
some of these things. How can I continue to help
and encourage my husband through this process? And how could
(35:50):
I help lead my son? Any advice would be helpful.
I love what you do and how you speak love
and light into the world.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Thanks for it all.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
All right, Cheyenne, I'm sorry for this tough situation you're in,
being so young, twenty six, you have been together eight years,
and it sounds like you are a Christian. It sounds
like and your husband is not. Is it kind of
what you're getting?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yes, And.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Thankfully the Bible does talk about this, talks about scenarios
like this.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Are they married? Does it say the Mary?
Speaker 3 (36:28):
That's an interesting question. I don't think I noticed. I don't.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yes, my husband, Okay, my husband and I are twenty
twenty six years old, brand new parents to a little boy. Well,
the first answer for a Christian, China, if you're a Christian,
the first answer is you pray.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
You pray for him, You pray for.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Your husband, and you pray for your little boy, and
you beg the Lord for him. And you have an
opportunity through your serving them and through through the love
that you have for them, you have an opportunity to
(37:10):
be a witness through that so that the Bible says
that there is a way that you could break him down,
so that he ends up thinking, how could you be
so joyful? How could you still serve me even when
I'm angry with you? How could you still look at
me and love me. And your answer is the Lord.
(37:34):
There is a testimony in that that is true.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
And I would, I would.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I would prioritize praying for your own strength to do
that and for His salvation over I would prioritize that
over all the other things like going to church when
he doesn't go, a counsel with the the other women
at the possible, having a pastor meet. All that stuff's important.
(38:06):
But I would just I would, I would pray like
it all depends on God.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
What do you think about this, Marv?
Speaker 2 (38:15):
So one of the one of the things I would
certainly encourage her with is what was her name, Chyenne? Chyenne.
One thing I would encourage you with, Cheyenne is to
make sure that you're in a local church, and maybe
you are. If you are, surround yourself with support, share
(38:37):
your story with someone that can walk through with you
a little, a little encouragement for you. Is my back
in twenty ten, well before twenty ten, like two thousand
and eight, two thousand and nine, my wife and I
had been married about five years, and I was not
(39:00):
who I was supposed to be as a husband or
as a as a Christian, and my wife knew that,
and she took it upon herself to start praying for me,
and she prayed. She had a card that had a
prayer for her husband on it that she committed to
(39:21):
praying every day, and she prayed that prayer faithfully and
I had no idea. And it was through that when
my life became so miserable that I actually was unwilling
to go further and ended up I was miserable in
(39:42):
every area of my life. Now was that that doesn't
sound like a good thing, but it was the best
thing that ever happened to me because it drove me
to finding something better. And when my life changed, which
I went home one day from work, I had reached
the end of myself and I am desperate, grabbed a
Bible and started reading. I had to find out if
(40:03):
I was a Christian or not, and and my life
totally changed that day. My eyes were opened and that
was the beginning. That was my rebirth. And after that,
my wife said, I've been praying for you and it's
never been the same. So that's that's what I would
encourage you, is just pray, pray, pray, commit yourself to that,
and then don't pray out of desperation, pray out of praise,
(40:26):
and pray in faith. There's it's very important to to
pray cast your husband. You could say on him and
then leave him there and otherwise. What Granger said is wonderful.
Just stay, stay in the word and pray for yourself
as well. But get that connection with the Father is
(40:49):
how you're going to get through this.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
That's incredible. Wow, Chyenne, what a blessing that you have.
You have Marv to give you the other side of
this whole sinna. That is fantastic. Next question comes from
Casey and says, Hey, Granger and whoever else might be
on this podcast, thank you for the music and the
last and the memories I've had with my friends and
(41:12):
family because of you and your family. Why is it
so hard to ask for help for what seems like everyone,
especially if someone you don't know a lot about yourself.
Let me read this again. Why is it so hard
to ask for help for what seems like everyone, especially
(41:34):
if it's something you don't know a lot about yourself.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
I'm not sure what he means by.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
That, hmm. I would be meaning why is it so
hard to ask for help? Because it said something about
because you don't know a lot about something like kind
of the idea that it's hard to humble ourselves to
actually ask. We already feel like we should know. Is
(42:01):
that kind of what you're gathering.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, yeah, I think so. And so Casey, it sounds
like this is a this is a lesson and vulnerability
for you, And maybe there's a little bit of pride
of showing showing other people that you might not know everything,
and that.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Is for especially for guys, that that is a thing,
you know.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
I remember my dad was so good at at just
asking questions and not worrying about if people thought he
was stupid for asking the question. Because so many times
we go through life and I'm guilty of this. We
go through life just kind of listening and agreeing, and
inside you're thinking, I wish I could ask more about this,
but I don't want to slow this conversation down, or
(42:52):
I don't want to I don't wanna Surely I should
know this answer and I don't. So Casey, it's a
it's a practice of vulnerability to say, because when people
do that do that to me, I never think, oh,
this guy's so stupid. I always think, Wow, it's great
to sometimes slow down and to help explain, because that's
(43:14):
the only way we learn. So Casey, I think that's
what this is about, is you starting small and practicing
the art of saying, hang on a second, guys, can
you explain that one more time?
Speaker 3 (43:27):
I don't know a lot about this.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
I think you'll be surprised when you start doing that
that people don't look at you like you're dumb. They
actually look at you like you're more intelligent, because you
want to actually know more about a certain subject. Bill
says Granger Love your podcast. I'm twenty three, live in Oklahoma.
I have a great job. I've accomplished a lot at
(43:52):
my age, and so I plan on staying at this
job for a long time. My parents are split up,
but I have my own house that doesn't affect me
as much as my younger brother. Last May, my dad's
house burned to the ground, so I'll so I let
him stay with me temporarily. It's been almost ten months.
I feel like having him living with me puts a
(44:15):
cap on my potential. I've lived by myself for two
years before last May. I know the Bible says honor
your father and mother, but how long is too long
for this to continue. It also puts a burden on
my relationship with my mom because she can't come to
my house anymore, and all my friends and his friends
tell me that he's never going to move out. I
(44:36):
think it puts a damper on my relationship because I
don't feel like I'm independent anymore, especially when he asked, well,
ask where I'm going all the time. I'm afraid that
it's going to hinder our relationship if something doesn't change.
He can afford a new house, but he chooses not
to look. I think part of him doesn't want to
(44:56):
move out because he gets to see me every day
and my brother and at the same time every other week.
I am thinking about how the right way to react
is God blessing, thanks for all that you do for
a small town kids.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Bill.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Okay, that's an interesting question. Bill twenty three, young young
going through this. Dad is living with you and he
has been for two years because his house burned down.
You are worried about violating honoring him, and you don't
want to be also abused and taken advantage of. So
(45:39):
I think your reaction to this and your question is
valid and normal. How do you answer this guy mar Well.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
For one thing, I'm thinking of how unique the question
is the situation is, because usually it's the other way around.
Usually Dad has a son living at home that won't leave,
and it's a hard situation. One of the first things
I would say is you're gonna have to have a
conversation with him, and maybe you have already. If not,
that probably has to be one of the next things
(46:09):
that happens. But this is a situation where again, are
you in a church regularly. This would be where somebody
around you could give you some great advice and walk
through this with you, because it is a balance. It's
a hard situation with you being the son and you
(46:30):
want to honor your father, and bless you in that,
by the way for having that desire or realizing that
that's important to honor your father. But honor doesn't always
mean just accommodate. And so how does that look like
to move forward and honor and while still you know,
being taken advantage of is one of the hardest things
(46:50):
to deal with. When you feel taken advantage of, all
of your perseverance, all of your your endurance, it's challenged.
And so that's one thing that that is very hard.
And I recognize that when you feel taken advantage of
and you know, I don't know if you're a Christian
(47:11):
or not, but but pray about it and share it
with somebody and you that can walk through this with you.
But whatever happens, if you have, if you have the
the standard of honoring your father, but realize that honor
isn't always accommodation. But if you move forward with that
(47:31):
in mind, I think you'll do the right thing.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Wow, that's really good. Honoring does not equal accommodating. And
I get that question. You've probably heard that a lot.
The how do I honor a father or a mother
who is doesn't seem worthy of that honor? And so
there's nuance there. Yes, okay, well what is honoring? What
(47:54):
does that mean? Yes, it doesn't necessarily mean trusting. No,
it doesn't mean that you welcome an alcoholic into your house.
That's not honoring. So I think the only thing that
I think Marv's answer is great, and I think my
part in this conversation would be to dig in on
(48:17):
what it looks like practically to have that conversation with him.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
Yes, I think we and.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Bill it's not easy to break ice like this, but
it looks something like taking him out of the distracted
world and saying, Dad, I'd like to Maybe you even
set it up where, Dad, I like to have some
coffee with you one of these days to kind of
discuss some things so that you're then you're acknowledging that
(48:44):
you want to have a conversation. This isn't something you're
having in the kitchen while you're making an omelet or
he's walking out of the door and grabbing his coat. Dad,
I want to tell you about how long you're going
to live in the house. Let's actually pick a time
and go, Dad, it's three o'clock on Friday, a good time,
have some coffe and talk about some things so that
you're at a table and it's one on one, and
(49:06):
maybe even have some stuff written down so he knows
you're serious. And you start with, just like you said, Dad,
I love you. I want to honor you. I feel
like it's the right thing for me to honor you,
and I just want to say how grateful I am
to have a great dad that has raised me and
prepared me for life in so many ways. For the
(49:27):
twenty six to twenty three years, But I do Dad
want to talk about our living situation, and I kind
of want to hear from you because I'm listen. I'm
happy dad to support you, and I'm happy to help
you out in your time of need. But I would
(49:47):
like to respectfully know how long is this so I
could plan ahead with my bills, with my life, with
my own independence, as I'm growing, as I'm thinking about
work and possibly a wife one day. Can you give
me a timeframe, open up the door and see where
(50:08):
that kind of conversation goes.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Right. One thing that caught my attention was that you
mentioned he you think the one reason he likes to
stay there is because he likes to see you. That's
actually pretty special, and don't take that lightly. A song
that keeps coming into my head is I think it's
(50:30):
titled The Cats and the Cradle. If you don't know
that song, go listen to it. Ricky skagg sings and
multiple other people. But maybe there's some of that in
your situation and value that value that your dad wants
to see you, and kind of have that in your
mind and appreciate it maybe before you start the conversation, just.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
The thought, you know, in just a few weeks as
we record this podcast. In a few weeks, actually, in
one week will be ten years to the day I
lost my dad. And it's interesting as we kind of
wrap up this podcast too, because Maverick, my son, was
waking up this morning and excuse me. He was going
(51:16):
to bed last night and Amber put him down and
she said, he wants you to go tell him a story,
because I always tell him a story at night to
put him down.
Speaker 3 (51:26):
And it's always the same.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
I make up this story about a little boy on
a tractor and he's driving in the green grass and.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
He sees all these animals.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
He sees a grasshopper, and he sees a bird, and
he sees a gorilla and gets back in the tractor
and drives and I just make it up and we
talk about what the gorilla says. So I'm watching him
on the little Amber's little monitor and she says, he's
waiting on you, and should we just let him fall asleep,
(51:53):
And I thought, no, I'll go in there. And I
walk into the room and open the door and his
eyes slide up, and I went and laid down with
him and start telling him the story. But it made
me think about the way I reacted when my dad
would walk into wherever I was. My brothers and I
were sleeping and seeing him walk in, and it made
(52:15):
me then reflect on the fact that it's been ten
years since I've seen his face. And I think that's
an interesting perspective Bill, as we talk about this, because
most likely, the odds are most likely you will lose
your dad and you will look back in a decade
(52:35):
we'll go by like that and you'll say, man, I remember,
I remember when Dad's house burned down and he lived you.
Speaker 3 (52:42):
Guys, remember when Dad's house burned down. He lived with
me for two years.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
And then you'll look back and you won't look back
in contempt of that. You'll let back and go thank
God that he lived with me, and I got closer
than I ever did.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
There's so many things that I basically hated when I
was young that I would never trade today that maybe
one of them.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Absolutely Well, we love you, guys. It's been such an
honor having you more. It's been an honor to be
here the first podcast listener turned guest.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Thank you for having me on Granger, appreciate your brother
special see y'all.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Gee, thanks for joining me on the Grangersmith Podcast. I
appreciate all of you guys. You could help me out
by rating this podcast on iTunes. If you're on YouTube, subscribe.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
To this channel.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Hit that little like button and notification spell so that
you never miss anytime I upload a video.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
Yigi
We're not just talking about self defense here. We're talking
about at the stake of your wife's life. An intruder
breaks into your house and he is going to kill
members of your family. Well, what's up, everybody? Welcome to
(00:25):
the podcast. A special episode for me, maybe special episode
for you two. I don't know, absolutely so, everybody. This
is Marv miller, a, a Mennonite pastor. But that's really
irrelevant compared to what I'm about to say next. Long
time listener to the podcast, first listener to the podcast
(00:48):
turned guest.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I should pat myself on the back.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
That's how literally how we met was through this podcast. Yeah,
you emailed the podcast. That's what we do here. I
just read your emails and you were one of the emails,
and it was very intriguing to me. I'm not exactly
sure it wasn't that it was more special than other emails,
but something in my spirit says, reply to this guy.
(01:18):
And that reply. We can't remember if it was two
or three years ago you emailed, but that reply led
to a brotherhood between you and I, a friendship that
has grown just from one email and from my reply.
That led to a few more replies that led to
a phone call between us. You live in South Carolina
(01:40):
with your family. I live in Texas. We then met
in Pittsburgh for a concert of mine.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yes, just last September.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Last September, and then there was a conference, a pastor's
conference in Austin, and I said, hey, Marv, what about
you come to this pastor's conference and come stay with
us in the barn. So that's literally what you've been
doing the last three or four days is staying here
at the house. And now you're on the podcast the
(02:11):
same place, full circle where we first met. I think
it's just a it's a fascinating story just for me
what this podcast has done in the friendship that like,
if if nothing else mattered on this podcast, I got
a great friend out of it.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah. Well, it's it's really an honor and it feels
so undeserving to actually be here. I was talking with
my wife the other day and it just feels like
we're walking on holy ground here because, like she said,
there's no reason on earth that we should be here,
and the likelihood of Granger reaching out, like if you're
(02:49):
reaching out to an email that I sent, you know
what caught your attention and why did you decide to
reach out to me, and I just love the thought
that are you know what I wrote. I wrote a
little bit of my testimony, and somehow our spirits connected
in that email. And definitely our friendship was built off
(03:11):
of our spiritual connection. And that's we're not really friends
as much as we're brothers. True and uh and so
to actually be able to well, when I started listening
to your podcast, I connected with your perspective. It resonated
with me when I when I listened and I had
first heard your music, and then when I started actually
(03:34):
uh listening to the podcast, which I I'm not sure
at what point I found out you actually had a podcast,
I want to start listening to it. I knew right
away that your life was changed and you had found
what you're looking for. And of course I wasn't always
making the connection between what you were saying in your
podcast and some of the music, and that that was
the curious question. That's why I emailed you.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah you want me to tell them, because yeah, you do,
because they might be thinking, what in the world did
he say? In an E that made Granger actually reply
because I never ever reply.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
I just instead put him in the queue.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
By the way, that email is podcast at grangersmith dot com.
You email and we answer your questions. That's what the
format is. You emailed, and I, instead of putting it
in the queue to read it on the podcast, I
felt compelled to reply. People might be thinking, what was it? Well,
it was part of your testimony. But then the end
was what will you do? I'm paraphrasing, what will you
(04:27):
do with Earl Dibbles Junior? And how will that how
will that character still bring people to the truth?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yes, like, how do you connect Earl Dibbles with your faith?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And at the time when you emailed, I already knew
that I was going to Lord willing leave touring, that
things were going to change for me, and you are
almost eluding it. Hey, you know that the road you're on,
you know where this is headed. If you take, if
you take what you believe Granger to its fullest extent,
(05:01):
you're going to start leaving the secular life behind.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yes, you knew that in a way, Yes, yes, I did.
I mean that's exactly so it's.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Either that or you don't really believe what you're saying,
do you.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I was so curious how you're going to make the connection,
because I was thinking, I've heard you talk enough. I
know you've had to have thought about this, and because
I knew at that point, well, you weren't just living
two different lives. I knew you had made a connection somehow.
There was some reason that you were singing the songs
you were singing, but then also sharing the faith you
(05:33):
were sharing. And not every song, of course, there was
a few that caught my attention, and I think the
first one that really made me start thinking, I need
to ask him a question. And I never told you this,
but was the song if You're Happy in if your
Country and you know it raised a beer? Yeah, And
that was a children's song that I knew growing up,
(05:55):
If You're happy and you know it clap your hands.
And then this was like a rewritten song, and so
so I thought, now, how does he connect that with
his with what I hear you say on the podcast.
And that's what really made me start thinking about the question.
Not that well, I'm I'm from the men Inite culture,
and so that just caught my attention. That song that
(06:16):
you'd taken a children's song and rewrote it into a
country song like that, I knew there was a connection somehow,
so I was looking forward to hearing you explain it
when you actually emailed back and said, I'm trying to
remember exactly what your words were. He said, a lot
will be changing for me in the next ten to
twelve months, and I don't think Earl will be making
(06:37):
the journey with me. I think that's what she said.
It took me off guard. I expected to hear some
kind of a response of well, this is the reason
I sing this and then I say this, and not
everybody may say there was a conflict or anything. It
was just sure. It was just that question that your
answer that was just well I'm actually changing directtions here
(07:01):
was so authentic and so honest and just it really
caught me off guard. And then I knew you were
for real when you responded what you did that like
took all the doubtside of my mind. So then after that,
listening to your podcast is where I It's like your
perspective connected with me, and I just built a trust
off of the perspective. You know, I may have given
(07:22):
different answers different times as a as a pastor. I
love listening to your podcast because it I run those
questions and then your answers through my head all the time.
You know, when when I do counseling, when we're meeting
with young couples or young people, you know, we're essentially
sitting across the campfire from people in person. We have
them in our living room a lot, and those questions
(07:44):
have really given me years worth of experience in just knowing, oh,
this is the direction that would be good to go
with a question like this, So what does this really
help me?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
What is this room?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
The perspective of sitting in this chair looking out instead
of looking from the camera in how does that perspective
for you?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
What is that like?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Well, I had no idea what to expect, and I'm
not familiar with talking on a podcast, especially not with
like a video podcast, and.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
So I weird, looks great on video.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
We'll wait, We'll have to wait and make that call.
But so so, sitting here, it feels surreal, really it does.
But it's in another way, it feels just like you
and I are having a conversation. It really does. It's
a it's a nice atmosphere you have here and I'm
(08:44):
looking forward to.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
And that's so cool, And you're speaking for all the
people that have listened as long as you have for
several years, that have wondered what it might be like
sitting in that chair.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, it's it's it's amazing. It actually feels good so far.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well, I'm not going just because you're here. I'm not
going to change the format of what we do. We're
still going to answer questions. And I think it would
be interesting because we're both brothers in Christ. But we
do come from different cultures, yes, quite different, And just
like a lot of people that are listening right now
come from different cultures, and that's okay, and so I
(09:21):
think a different culture will probably prompt a different answer.
Before we get started, I will say something ironic about
this conversation today is that Earl Dibbles actually filmed video
this morning.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So Earl is not dead. He filmed the.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Video because there is a girl at our office at
the Yegee Farm that has a cyber truck, the Tesla truck,
and so we filmed Earl's reaction to a Tesla truck
and what he thinks about it.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
That's awesome, But the Earl these days is different. I
didn't think Earl should be killed.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
He's not dead.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
How did I say he should be converted, not condemned.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
He should be verded. I could do it, so.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
The first question, by the way, if I'll say it again,
the email is podcast at grangersmith dot com, and you're
you're emailing my producer ant Man, who is going to
put your question in Q. So we ask just don't
send the same question a bunch for ant Man's sake,
and don't send it longer than about a phone length,
because it makes it harder to read in this in
(10:23):
this setting. The first question and I already I've already
scanned it because I could see it right now, and
this is already going to be interesting with a mind
night pastor. It comes from Caden. It says, Hey, Granger,
what are your thoughts on concealed Carrie self defense? Is
it okay to kill someone if it saves someone else's life.
(10:44):
I know this is a deep question, and I'm just
curious what your thoughts are. I enjoy your music and
your podcast. Thanks Caden Anderson from Illinois.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Uh, great way to start.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I'm really interested in this because in the mind of
night culture, you.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
You follow the.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I don't want to say law, you follow the.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Teaching, teaching of.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Non resistance.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Is that what it's called, that of non resistance, and
that's that's literally taking the Gospel to the fullest extent
of believing Jesus when he says, love your enemies, turn
the other cheek. So I'll start with you, Marv. What
are your thoughts. Of course, we're not just talking about
(11:34):
self defense here. We're talking about at the stake of
your wife's life, an intruder breaks into your house and
he is going to kill members of your family. I
would love to hear your answer on that.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
So the the worst case scenario is something that is
always given out as an example. Sure, so this is
a worst case scenario, and let me just go ahead.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Very very rare for this scenario to happen. If if
once in a lifetime, that's one in a thousand families.
I don't personally know anyone that this has actually happened to,
but you're right, we throw the exception out.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Is what do you do here?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
So I'm not trying to trap you, no gotcha or
just I'm asking.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
What everyone is thinking.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yes, okay, yes, and worst case scenario is actually good
to talk about because it can give you then a
good precedent to build off of for other scenarios that
are not worst case, but often they don't have good answers.
So I can give good things to think about. But
the thought of and this is a conversation that has
(12:47):
been happening for a long time around a lot of
dinner tables and couches, and even around Mennonite dinner tables,
what if this would happen? What would you do? And
it's hard to know what you would do. For me,
I don't know what I would do. So the position
that I generally take, and I don't condemn someone for
(13:07):
taking a different position. I have good friends that that
actually carry and they actually have a weapon of self
defense at their disposal. I've decided to take the position. Well,
I've decided to not put myself in a position where
I have to decide I'm going to use a weapon
(13:29):
that can kill someone or not, And so I don't.
I don't sleep with a pistol beside my bed. I
don't have a pistol that I carry on me on
a regular basis. And I've chosen not to do that because, well,
for me, it comes down to it, it's a it's
a step of faith, because I would want nothing better
than to be able to fully protect my family. I'm
(13:52):
a protector and a provider, but I'm also called to
trust God. And by by saying that, I'm not saying
that someone that decides to have concealed cary and actually
use a weapon isn't trusting God. I'm just speaking for myself,
and I think i'd be speaking to for a lot
within the culture, it's a step of faith to decide
(14:13):
to not put yourself in that position where you have
to make that choice. And a lot of times, you know,
we would look at the scripture where Jesus would would
have told his disciples that he that lives by the
sword will die by the sword paraphrasing there. Sure, but
that if you decide to have that as your protection,
(14:35):
then very likely that will have to be your protection.
That's just something to think about.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Now.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Great, I would love to hear your thoughts. I don't
know if you have any other questions for me, I'd
be happy to answer. That's just the short version of
kind of where we find ourselves.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
That's that's building up to it. So now it happens
you're saying your answer is I don't know what I
would do but I'm not putting myself in a position
to have something readily available to kill, right.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Okay, Yes, that's not saying that I wouldn't use what
I have to try to take care of the situation.
But for sure i'd be crying out to the Lord
in a situation that like that, knowing that he's actually
seeing what's happening, and that it's certainly not in my
heart to It's not from a position of being a
coward or a position of not shouldering my responsibility. We
(15:28):
want to shoulder our responsibility as men with all our
hearts in our culture. But it would be the Anabaptists,
and the position of non resistance would largely be taken
from Jesus attitude of if my servants, if my disciples
were of this world, if my kingdom was of this world,
then would my servants fight. I think that's how he
(15:48):
said it. If my kingdom was of this world, then
would my servants servants fight? But now my kingdom's not
not from here, And based on that, he let the
Jews and the Romans capture him and cify him. And
whether that's a totally accurate interpretation of that verse, I
think that's where a kind of a foundational verse for
the Mennonites to live a non resistant life, and it's
(16:12):
been a blessed life. You know, the Mennonites were severely
persecuted when they first broke off of the Catholic Church
back in the beginning of like in the fifteen hundreds,
and it was their non resistant stance that really made
them who they were. It was kind of their their
foundation of one of their foundational beliefs away from the beginning.
(16:37):
So there's just some stuff to think about.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, I don't have a problem with anything you said,
and I don't know if I would answer it differently.
I love though, I love the idea that I'm not
going to have something on me that would tempt me
to taking a life because I've I've joked in the
(17:00):
past with Amber like as a Christian, Well, I'm taking
out all the kneecaps. I'm gonna take out their kneecaps
and I'm gonna preach the gospel to them.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I can't say that.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
My head as I'm wrapping a tourniquet around their leg
in my living room. Yes, in the middle of the night,
I'm wrapping a tourniquet around their leg and telling them
about Jesus with nine to one one in my left hand.
You know that's I like that, I do, but it's
going to another level saying and I'm also not going
to have anything in my house that would tempt me
to blow in their head off, because who knows in
(17:33):
that moment if that's what you would be tempted to do.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I don't have a problem with your answer.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I I think, first of all, once again, I have
to reiterate on this podcast. Right now, we're talking about
an extreme, isolated occurrence that is very very rare. To
sleep with a pistol under your pillow for this kind
of scenario is as like winning the lottery if it
(18:00):
actually happened, especially living in a first world country. And
there are a lot of people that will disagree, but
I would challenge them to test their heart and their faith.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
If that.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Resistance in their mind to this idea is coming from
culture or coming from God.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
There are biblical.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Arguments to make for an armed resistance. There are biblical
arguments from thirteen. For Christians serving in law enforcement or military,
there is a biblical argument for it, and there's a
biblical argument against it. People email. You've probably heard all
the time. I feel a calling to go into the military,
(18:49):
but I'm now I'm torn as a Christian if I
should be someone who kills. I know that we have
a lot of stories in World War Two where there
was a draft and people went in. They followed the
Romans thirteen governmental rule of going into the draft because
that's that was the law. But then when they got
into the to the army, they said, I will not
(19:10):
carry a weapon. I'll do anything else. I will carry
the coffee, I'll help with the tourniquets, I'll carry the
sick out.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
But I can't. I can't.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I need a religious exemption for carrying a weapon. So
we do see a faithful authority to Romans thirteen carrying
out the law and a faithful observance to Jesus in
non resistance. So I think it could it can work.
There's arguments either way. I think if you were going
(19:43):
to fall on one side and say this is the
side I'm falling on, I think non resistance is decide.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
To fall on.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Well. I think sometimes there's not explicit, like you said,
arguments both ways. It's not always completely clear or right
and wrong, But sometimes there's blessing that goes with believing
a certain way. The thing with you could say, the
thing that we could fault on as non resistant people
(20:11):
is that non resistance is a lifestyle. It's not just
deciding not to carry a pistol. But often we would
draw a line there, we're not going to kill someone,
but then we really don't live non resistant in other
areas of our life. And for us to really believe that,
you know, we're not typically involved in the court system,
(20:32):
we're not typically involved in we're not considered patriotic, we
don't involve ourselves in governmental affairs in general. Now, Mennonites,
they're kind of on a spectrum of conservative liberal. I
guess that's the right words to use. But sure there's
some that are more involved than others, for sure, But
in general, we would consider that a lifestyle, not just
(20:54):
an instance based or a specific thing like carrying a pistol.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
You're you're doing such a great job, and I'm it's
occurring to me as we're talking that I also don't
want to put you in a in a situation because
you are a pastor representing your church, and you're also
representing a culture and and there are many Mennonites that
listen to this podcast, many Amish, which maybe we could
talk later about the difference between the two, since a
(21:21):
lot of people associate the two cultures together.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Even though they're not.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
So I don't want to put you in this situation.
I don't I don't okay, put in I don't want
to put you.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
I don't want to put you in a corner.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
It feels like an opportunity for me. Great, and it's
wonderful great.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
You know, the question has often come up to me
where people say, what was your first dance at your
wedding with Amber? What song did you use? And my
answer is, I wrote my own song. And that's just
kind of what I've always done, and that's been what
I've enjoyed doing, is capturing a moment with lyrics and
melody and then and then making that very special moment
(21:58):
of our lives live forever through that song. So then
when I hear that song, I think back to that moment.
It connects it and so I'm not using someone else's
lyrics or someone else is not speaking into my life
in a huge moment. Now I realized that's not a
normal thing. That's not what everyone does. I recognize that.
That's why I want to talk about something really cool here.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Now.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
It's called Songfinch and what this is. This is an
actual company that employs many, many songwriters that can write
you a special song for that special event. So if
you're looking for the perfect gift for someone per se
and you just don't know what to get them, you
could think beyond material things and get them something that's
(22:43):
very unique and unforgettable.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
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Speaker 1 (22:46):
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them who the song is for. You, provide some personal
(23:08):
details and let them know the type of song you want.
Then you pick your favorite Songfinch artist, get matched up
with one if you don't know, and then they'll write, record,
and produce your original song in just four to seven days.
And then you'll have it and you could do all
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it into a vinyl record. You know or make a
one of a kind art from those lyrics. You could
(23:30):
even add your song to Spotify's It's really cool. Songfitch
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behind every single original song that they create, and they've
done this over three hundred thousand times. So don't waste
another second on more stuff. Get that studio quality original
(23:52):
song that's totally unique to you and your relationship. It
only takes four to seven days.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
What are you waiting on?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
This song will last forever For a limited time, Songfinch
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Speaker 3 (24:16):
That's a fifty dollars value.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
This offer is only available for my listeners at my
special url songfinch dot com slash granger. That is songfinch
dot com slash granger. Don't wait, get started right now.
Next question comes from Sonja and it says, Hey, Granger
my husband and I or are newlyweds, and recently we
(24:39):
bought twenty acres in Middle Tennessee. We're planning on getting
chickens and goats on our property. However, we're also planning
on starting a family very soon, Lord Willing, considering you
have chickens, goats, and children, do you think would be
unwise for us to get children and goats now as
we begin trying to start a family, we both work
full time jobs out outside of the home. In case
(25:01):
that pays for in case that plays in a factor
of your opinion. Thanks for all you do, Sonja. I
think that's how you say it's Sonja. Okay, So thinking
about this question, you are newlyweds. Congratulations on twenty acres.
That's incredible for newlyweds. What a blessing that is. And
(25:22):
you're considering getting some animals. But you're wondering if it's
unwise to get chickens and goats. Why do you think
she asked that? Do you know why she asked that?
I don't know if there'd be a financial thing.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I was thinking more maybe a responsibility thing of needing
someone maybe to care for them while they're busy with
If they have a young baby or something. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
So this is it's a heart position, Sonja. It's going
to be a where's your heart in this? Are you
needing to work your job and your husband's needed to
work his job so that you could pay for the
twenty acres and then you're going to get animals that
you're going to have an extra responsibility, and then you
want children. I think that might be starting to get
(26:09):
unwise because now you don't have time to be with
the children, and your husband definitely doesn't. So if that's
what you're asking, I think, yes, I would say unwise,
but I'm not sure if that's what you mean. But
I do know you said we both work full time
(26:29):
jobs outside of the home.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
If that is.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
An absolute requirement to keep up with the payments, say
it's a problem.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
You agree with that, Mark.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yes, it's easy to in society around us to think, well,
that's just a normal thing that they the husband and
the wife work, and you often will. Your lifestyle reflects
that where you both have to work. Yeah, and it's
hard to it's hard to have a concept of just
the husband working and the wife being a stay at
(27:02):
home I've seen time and again we're often it's normal
for when you have a new baby that the mom
stays home just long enough until she kind of gets
on her feet, and when the baby's ready, they go
off to daycare and she goes back to work to
support a lifestyle. But my opinion would be twenty acres
(27:23):
isn't worth the sacrifice. If that's what it.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Takes you said to support a lifestyle, that's the key
we're not talking about. Husband has a back injury from
falling off the ladder, mom has to go to work
to make ends meet. You guys have a one betroom
apartment in the city. You're doing the best you can
just to put beans in the pot. It's not what
we're talking about. We're saying supporting a lifestyle of a
(27:50):
twenty acre farm in Middle Tennessee with animals and you're working.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Two jobs to keep that up. I would say.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Downgrade the life style until you reach a point where
you go, I am fully available for children. And then
if you could if you could buy chickens and have
chickens roaming around the property and you could hold you
could hold your possessions with open palms. I love to
think of it. If you were if you have clothesed
fists around these possessions in terms of I have to work,
(28:22):
I have to do, we have to fulfill this, and
then once we get it, we have to hang on
to it. And if we'd be devastated it, if we
had to share it with anyone, we would be devastated.
Then your heart position has to be readjusted. I think
that's what you're asking.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, this is probably a dream come true for them
to have a twenty acre farm as newlyweds. But this
would be my thoughts that children are a gift from God.
Chickens and goats aren't necessarily and those may be able
to come in time, but don't don't turn your dream
into a nightmare.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So, speaking of twenty acre farms chickens, what's the difference
between Amish and Mennonites.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Probably the size of their farms. Uh So, the just
as a quick history thing that the Mennonites would have
came from the Catholic Church, and after the Mennonites were
a people for some time, the Amish actually broke off
of the of the Mennonites. And wow, there's uh, there's
(29:25):
a lot of so Jacob Ahmond would have been the
where the Amish name would have come from from the
name Amen. And so I'm not sure, your little brothers,
I guess you could say it that way.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
The the Amish would they would have they would believe
in salvation, but that would vary some by by. Again,
the there's different am there's a spectrum of Amish just
for practical purposes. There's there's old order and there's new.
(30:00):
But then there's also a lot of different sects of
Amish in that and they would typically in their range,
it would it would all be dependent on lifestyle. Now,
the commonality of the Amish was they generally they can't
have cars, so they drive horse and buggy or the
higher driver to take them places. But it would mostly
(30:24):
be along lifestyle, and it would be very much. They
would generally look at separation from the world would be
a physical thing. So their foundational belief is that God,
from what I understand, is that God never changes and
so therefore if we follow God, we should never change.
And so that's kind of why the Amish could appear
(30:46):
stuck in time because they take that very literally. But
there's a lot of a lot of man made well,
it's a man made system, but it's from the way
they interpret certain scripture verses. And whenever you have a
man made system that strong, there's a strong authority that
goes with it. And there's also there's a lot of rules,
(31:09):
and of course when you have a lot of rules,
well then you still have humans are humans, no matter
if they're Amish or not. And so there's a lot
of bending and twisting and reshaping and and so it's
amazing how some of the Amish find ways to actually
still have fairly modern conveniences without really breaking the rules.
(31:32):
It's it's ingenuity at its finest.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
So I saw something similar with the Orthodox Jews, and yes,
okay that broughably some similarities.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
They find ways around rules that they have.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Made, and us Mennonites are not all that different. Sometimes.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, so there's an interpretation from scripture, and a rule
is made from an interpretation, and then in order to
live a modern life, there's exceptions made or not exceptions.
There's around the rules that they have made from the interpretation.
It's so interesting. Yes, with Jews, we're not talking about
the Bible, we're talking about the Torah. But on the Sabbath,
(32:12):
you can't use an elevator. You can't push an elevator button. Amazing,
So everybody has made sabbath elevators that go up to
the top floor and then back down one floor at
a time, so that you could just walk in. The
door opens and you walk in, and you ride it
up till you get to your place and it opens
and you walk out.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
So it's just a way around. You're still riding the elevator.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yes, you're still using the modern convenience of the electric elevator.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
That type of mindset does make for so many inconsistencies,
and we could talk a lot about that. But what
the Amish do well at is their very strong community.
They're very loyal to each other. Yes, they have usually
big families and amazing craftsmen. Yes, maybe they have passed
(33:01):
on a quality work ethic very well. They put high
marks on that I believe, and so the there's things
the Amish have. Uh, they're really a throwback in time
that they live with values and in in some ways Mennonites.
The similarities would be that we both believe at some
level that being separate from the world affects our lifestyle,
(33:25):
affects us In a in a physical way, but the
Mennonites have typically decided to live with more modern conveniences
in our in the way we live our life. We
drive vehicles, we we buy our clothes for the most part.
Now that that depends on where who you are. If
(33:46):
you're a real conservative Mennonite, they may, especially the women,
may make their their dresses. But the Amish would for
the most part, uh make all of their clothes, or
they may have somebody Amish make clothes, and may we
sell them in a store in an Amish store. But
their their pants and shirts and even their I think
(34:06):
often their shoes, and you know, the dresses, their head coverings.
All of that is all made by Amish, to my understanding,
and often homemade.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
When I go to Pennsylvania, I love to buy or Indiana,
I love to buy from from the Amish store. In fact,
we have two former Amish that make our chicken coop,
our our garden, my greenhouse. We have actually the Roman Cross.
I have her in the backyard, made by Amish. Because
(34:37):
their work ethic and their their precision craftsmanship is unmatched.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
They also very one thing they do almost exclusively. They
pass on a language, the Pennsylvania Dutch language. The men
Andites do that, some the Amish do it much better.
Can you speak it ikon i khondaj? Yeah, he switched that.
Sell them my Ash language. Vest That means yes, I
can talk Dutch, I'm fluent in it and I Dutch
(35:03):
was my first language. I knew that before I knew English.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I did not know that more.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Wow, fascinating conversation. Okay, let's get to another question here.
It's from Shyenne. Says Hey Granger. My husband and I
are twenty six years old, brand new parents of a
little boy. We've been together for eight years and have
gone through many trials together, loss of parents, siblings, miscarriages, etc.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
All of which have.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Made us struggle with our faith throughout these years. While
I began and continuously work on my relationship with the Lord,
my husband will often challenge or mock me when I speak.
My worry is that our son will grow up hearing
some of these things. How can I continue to help
and encourage my husband through this process? And how could
(35:50):
I help lead my son? Any advice would be helpful.
I love what you do and how you speak love
and light into the world.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Thanks for it all.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
All right, Cheyenne, I'm sorry for this tough situation you're in,
being so young, twenty six, you have been together eight years,
and it sounds like you are a Christian. It sounds
like and your husband is not. Is it kind of
what you're getting?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yes, And.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Thankfully the Bible does talk about this, talks about scenarios
like this.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Are they married? Does it say the Mary?
Speaker 3 (36:28):
That's an interesting question. I don't think I noticed. I don't.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yes, my husband, Okay, my husband and I are twenty
twenty six years old, brand new parents to a little boy. Well,
the first answer for a Christian, China, if you're a Christian,
the first answer is you pray.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
You pray for him, You pray for.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Your husband, and you pray for your little boy, and
you beg the Lord for him. And you have an
opportunity through your serving them and through through the love
that you have for them, you have an opportunity to
(37:10):
be a witness through that so that the Bible says
that there is a way that you could break him down,
so that he ends up thinking, how could you be
so joyful? How could you still serve me even when
I'm angry with you? How could you still look at
me and love me. And your answer is the Lord.
(37:34):
There is a testimony in that that is true.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
And I would, I would.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I would prioritize praying for your own strength to do
that and for His salvation over I would prioritize that
over all the other things like going to church when
he doesn't go, a counsel with the the other women
at the possible, having a pastor meet. All that stuff's important.
(38:06):
But I would just I would, I would pray like
it all depends on God.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
What do you think about this, Marv?
Speaker 2 (38:15):
So one of the one of the things I would
certainly encourage her with is what was her name, Chyenne? Chyenne.
One thing I would encourage you with, Cheyenne is to
make sure that you're in a local church, and maybe
you are. If you are, surround yourself with support, share
(38:37):
your story with someone that can walk through with you
a little, a little encouragement for you. Is my back
in twenty ten, well before twenty ten, like two thousand
and eight, two thousand and nine, my wife and I
had been married about five years, and I was not
(39:00):
who I was supposed to be as a husband or
as a as a Christian, and my wife knew that,
and she took it upon herself to start praying for me,
and she prayed. She had a card that had a
prayer for her husband on it that she committed to
(39:21):
praying every day, and she prayed that prayer faithfully and
I had no idea. And it was through that when
my life became so miserable that I actually was unwilling
to go further and ended up I was miserable in
(39:42):
every area of my life. Now was that that doesn't
sound like a good thing, but it was the best
thing that ever happened to me because it drove me
to finding something better. And when my life changed, which
I went home one day from work, I had reached
the end of myself and I am desperate, grabbed a
Bible and started reading. I had to find out if
(40:03):
I was a Christian or not, and and my life
totally changed that day. My eyes were opened and that
was the beginning. That was my rebirth. And after that,
my wife said, I've been praying for you and it's
never been the same. So that's that's what I would
encourage you, is just pray, pray, pray, commit yourself to that,
and then don't pray out of desperation, pray out of praise,
(40:26):
and pray in faith. There's it's very important to to
pray cast your husband. You could say on him and
then leave him there and otherwise. What Granger said is wonderful.
Just stay, stay in the word and pray for yourself
as well. But get that connection with the Father is
(40:49):
how you're going to get through this.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
That's incredible. Wow, Chyenne, what a blessing that you have.
You have Marv to give you the other side of
this whole sinna. That is fantastic. Next question comes from
Casey and says, Hey, Granger and whoever else might be
on this podcast, thank you for the music and the
last and the memories I've had with my friends and
(41:12):
family because of you and your family. Why is it
so hard to ask for help for what seems like everyone,
especially if someone you don't know a lot about yourself.
Let me read this again. Why is it so hard
to ask for help for what seems like everyone, especially
(41:34):
if it's something you don't know a lot about yourself.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
I'm not sure what he means by.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
That, hmm. I would be meaning why is it so
hard to ask for help? Because it said something about
because you don't know a lot about something like kind
of the idea that it's hard to humble ourselves to
actually ask. We already feel like we should know. Is
(42:01):
that kind of what you're gathering.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, yeah, I think so. And so Casey, it sounds
like this is a this is a lesson and vulnerability
for you, And maybe there's a little bit of pride
of showing showing other people that you might not know everything,
and that.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Is for especially for guys, that that is a thing,
you know.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
I remember my dad was so good at at just
asking questions and not worrying about if people thought he
was stupid for asking the question. Because so many times
we go through life and I'm guilty of this. We
go through life just kind of listening and agreeing, and
inside you're thinking, I wish I could ask more about this,
but I don't want to slow this conversation down, or
(42:52):
I don't want to I don't wanna Surely I should
know this answer and I don't. So Casey, it's a
it's a practice of vulnerability to say, because when people
do that do that to me, I never think, oh,
this guy's so stupid. I always think, Wow, it's great
to sometimes slow down and to help explain, because that's
(43:14):
the only way we learn. So Casey, I think that's
what this is about, is you starting small and practicing
the art of saying, hang on a second, guys, can
you explain that one more time?
Speaker 3 (43:27):
I don't know a lot about this.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
I think you'll be surprised when you start doing that
that people don't look at you like you're dumb. They
actually look at you like you're more intelligent, because you
want to actually know more about a certain subject. Bill
says Granger Love your podcast. I'm twenty three, live in Oklahoma.
I have a great job. I've accomplished a lot at
(43:52):
my age, and so I plan on staying at this
job for a long time. My parents are split up,
but I have my own house that doesn't affect me
as much as my younger brother. Last May, my dad's
house burned to the ground, so I'll so I let
him stay with me temporarily. It's been almost ten months.
I feel like having him living with me puts a
(44:15):
cap on my potential. I've lived by myself for two
years before last May. I know the Bible says honor
your father and mother, but how long is too long
for this to continue. It also puts a burden on
my relationship with my mom because she can't come to
my house anymore, and all my friends and his friends
tell me that he's never going to move out. I
(44:36):
think it puts a damper on my relationship because I
don't feel like I'm independent anymore, especially when he asked, well,
ask where I'm going all the time. I'm afraid that
it's going to hinder our relationship if something doesn't change.
He can afford a new house, but he chooses not
to look. I think part of him doesn't want to
(44:56):
move out because he gets to see me every day
and my brother and at the same time every other week.
I am thinking about how the right way to react
is God blessing, thanks for all that you do for
a small town kids.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Bill.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Okay, that's an interesting question. Bill twenty three, young young
going through this. Dad is living with you and he
has been for two years because his house burned down.
You are worried about violating honoring him, and you don't
want to be also abused and taken advantage of. So
(45:39):
I think your reaction to this and your question is
valid and normal. How do you answer this guy mar Well.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
For one thing, I'm thinking of how unique the question
is the situation is, because usually it's the other way around.
Usually Dad has a son living at home that won't leave,
and it's a hard situation. One of the first things
I would say is you're gonna have to have a
conversation with him, and maybe you have already. If not,
that probably has to be one of the next things
(46:09):
that happens. But this is a situation where again, are
you in a church regularly. This would be where somebody
around you could give you some great advice and walk
through this with you, because it is a balance. It's
a hard situation with you being the son and you
(46:30):
want to honor your father, and bless you in that,
by the way for having that desire or realizing that
that's important to honor your father. But honor doesn't always
mean just accommodate. And so how does that look like
to move forward and honor and while still you know,
being taken advantage of is one of the hardest things
(46:50):
to deal with. When you feel taken advantage of, all
of your perseverance, all of your your endurance, it's challenged.
And so that's one thing that that is very hard.
And I recognize that when you feel taken advantage of
and you know, I don't know if you're a Christian
(47:11):
or not, but but pray about it and share it
with somebody and you that can walk through this with you.
But whatever happens, if you have, if you have the
the standard of honoring your father, but realize that honor
isn't always accommodation. But if you move forward with that
(47:31):
in mind, I think you'll do the right thing.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Wow, that's really good. Honoring does not equal accommodating. And
I get that question. You've probably heard that a lot.
The how do I honor a father or a mother
who is doesn't seem worthy of that honor? And so
there's nuance there. Yes, okay, well what is honoring? What
(47:54):
does that mean? Yes, it doesn't necessarily mean trusting. No,
it doesn't mean that you welcome an alcoholic into your house.
That's not honoring. So I think the only thing that
I think Marv's answer is great, and I think my
part in this conversation would be to dig in on
(48:17):
what it looks like practically to have that conversation with him.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
Yes, I think we and.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Bill it's not easy to break ice like this, but
it looks something like taking him out of the distracted
world and saying, Dad, I'd like to Maybe you even
set it up where, Dad, I like to have some
coffee with you one of these days to kind of
discuss some things so that you're then you're acknowledging that
(48:44):
you want to have a conversation. This isn't something you're
having in the kitchen while you're making an omelet or
he's walking out of the door and grabbing his coat. Dad,
I want to tell you about how long you're going
to live in the house. Let's actually pick a time
and go, Dad, it's three o'clock on Friday, a good time,
have some coffe and talk about some things so that
you're at a table and it's one on one, and
(49:06):
maybe even have some stuff written down so he knows
you're serious. And you start with, just like you said, Dad,
I love you. I want to honor you. I feel
like it's the right thing for me to honor you,
and I just want to say how grateful I am
to have a great dad that has raised me and
prepared me for life in so many ways. For the
(49:27):
twenty six to twenty three years, But I do Dad
want to talk about our living situation, and I kind
of want to hear from you because I'm listen. I'm
happy dad to support you, and I'm happy to help
you out in your time of need. But I would
(49:47):
like to respectfully know how long is this so I
could plan ahead with my bills, with my life, with
my own independence, as I'm growing, as I'm thinking about
work and possibly a wife one day. Can you give
me a timeframe, open up the door and see where
(50:08):
that kind of conversation goes.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Right. One thing that caught my attention was that you
mentioned he you think the one reason he likes to
stay there is because he likes to see you. That's
actually pretty special, and don't take that lightly. A song
that keeps coming into my head is I think it's
(50:30):
titled The Cats and the Cradle. If you don't know
that song, go listen to it. Ricky skagg sings and
multiple other people. But maybe there's some of that in
your situation and value that value that your dad wants
to see you, and kind of have that in your
mind and appreciate it maybe before you start the conversation, just.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
The thought, you know, in just a few weeks as
we record this podcast. In a few weeks, actually, in
one week will be ten years to the day I
lost my dad. And it's interesting as we kind of
wrap up this podcast too, because Maverick, my son, was
waking up this morning and excuse me. He was going
(51:16):
to bed last night and Amber put him down and
she said, he wants you to go tell him a story,
because I always tell him a story at night to
put him down.
Speaker 3 (51:26):
And it's always the same.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
I make up this story about a little boy on
a tractor and he's driving in the green grass and.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
He sees all these animals.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
He sees a grasshopper, and he sees a bird, and
he sees a gorilla and gets back in the tractor
and drives and I just make it up and we
talk about what the gorilla says. So I'm watching him
on the little Amber's little monitor and she says, he's
waiting on you, and should we just let him fall asleep,
(51:53):
And I thought, no, I'll go in there. And I
walk into the room and open the door and his
eyes slide up, and I went and laid down with
him and start telling him the story. But it made
me think about the way I reacted when my dad
would walk into wherever I was. My brothers and I
were sleeping and seeing him walk in, and it made
(52:15):
me then reflect on the fact that it's been ten
years since I've seen his face. And I think that's
an interesting perspective Bill, as we talk about this, because
most likely, the odds are most likely you will lose
your dad and you will look back in a decade
(52:35):
we'll go by like that and you'll say, man, I remember,
I remember when Dad's house burned down and he lived you.
Speaker 3 (52:42):
Guys, remember when Dad's house burned down. He lived with
me for two years.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
And then you'll look back and you won't look back
in contempt of that. You'll let back and go thank
God that he lived with me, and I got closer
than I ever did.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
There's so many things that I basically hated when I
was young that I would never trade today that maybe
one of them.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Absolutely Well, we love you, guys. It's been such an
honor having you more. It's been an honor to be
here the first podcast listener turned guest.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Thank you for having me on Granger, appreciate your brother
special see y'all.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Gee, thanks for joining me on the Grangersmith Podcast. I
appreciate all of you guys. You could help me out
by rating this podcast on iTunes. If you're on YouTube, subscribe.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
To this channel.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Hit that little like button and notification spell so that
you never miss anytime I upload a video.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
Yigi
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