Brandi Carlile and Tish Melton

Brandi Carlile’s knack for uplifting the musicians she loves is exemplary. After her own hard-earned ascent to fame over the course of seven studio albums, Brandi started to turn her sights to producing albums for artists she deeply admires, including Tanya Tucker who she’s been on Broken Record with in the past but also Brandy Clark. Then there’s Joni Mitchell—who, thanks to Brandi’s encouragement—has recently made a glorious return to performing live.

Brandi’s passion for the projects she works on is infectious. The latest is an EP she produced for 18-year-old singer/songwriter Tish Melton called, When We’re Older. Over the course of the five-song collection, Tish pulls influence from artists like Phoebe Bridgers and Lucy Dacus. Tish, whose mom is the New York Times bestselling author Glennon Doyle, is teeming with talent on her EP, which includes heartfelt songs that expertly capture a wise-beyond-her-years self assuredness.

On today’s episode Leah Rose talks to Tish Melton and Brandi Carlile about their creative partnership and the impermeable sense of self Brandi has found in both Tish and Joni Mitchell. And Brandi teases her upcoming collaboration album that she calls “monumental,” plus she talks about why she thinks Beyonce might be country music’s saving grace.

You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Tish Melton and Brandi Carlile along with all the tracks mentioned in this episode HERE.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. Brandy Carlyle's knack for uplifting the musicians she loves
is exemplary. After her own hard earned ascent to success
over the course of seven studio albums, Brandy started to
turn her sights to producing the albums for artists she
deeply admires, including Tanya Tucker, who she's been unbroken record

(00:37):
with in the past, but also Brandy Clark. Then there's
Joni Mitchell, who, thanks to Brandy's encouragement, has recently made
a glorious return to performing live. Brandy's passion for the
project she works on is infectious. The latest is an
EP she produced for an eighteen year old singer songwriter
named Tish Melton. The EPs called When We're Older. Over

(01:01):
the course of the five song collection, Tish pulls influence
from artists like Phoebe Bridgers and Lucy Dakis. Tish, whose
mom is the New York Times bestselling author Glennon Doyle,
is teeming with talent on her EP, which includes heartfelt
songs that expertly capture a wise beyond her years self assuredness.
On today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Tish Melton and

(01:22):
Brandy Carlyle about their creative partnership and the impermeable sense
of self Brandy is found in both Tish and Joni Mitchell.
And Brandy teases her upcoming collaboration album that she calls monumental,
and she talks about why she thinks Beyonce might be
country music's saving grace. This is broken record liner notes

(01:47):
for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Lea Rose's
conversation with Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, thank you both so much for doing this. I'm
super excited to hear about how this album came to be.
I guess let's start. Brandy, tell me how you first
met Tish and how you then found out that she
was a musician.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Well, our families are friends, so that might make you
think that, you know, because of proximity to one another,
or just an affection that we have for one another,
that that would draw us to work together, or me
to't want to work with Tish, But actually's quite it's
quite pure.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Like I just.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
Saw her trajectory from this interested young person like learning
an instrument and starting to sing covers, to like starting
to write in really pure, interesting and unaffected ways to
like actually becoming a damn good writer to becoming so
impressed that I was like a bit jealous. And that's
that's the point where we kind of met and decided

(02:49):
to go in and record some things because why not,
you know. Yeah, but it was a really natural trajectory
of me gaining affection and then admiration for a songwriter
that was honestly just impressing me, and proximity to our
families kind of phased out as one of the reasons
why we work together.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
In the end, I think Tish, Yeah, And then when
you say she was writing in unaffected ways, what do
you mean by that?

Speaker 3 (03:16):
Oh? I just mean that Tish is like a part
of a songwriting contingency that I have like a lot
of respect for, and I actually think she's one of
the best at it, where she's so innocently and with
such wisdom writing about exactly who she is right where
she is. She's like the Eckhart Toll, you know, prime
example of a songwriter like living in the moment in

(03:39):
the age that they are, you know. And I remember
coming up in roots in Americana and folk music and
writing about hopin' trains and the dust bowl and shit. Like,
you know, I wasn't talking about getting behind the wheel
of a car for the first time and being sad
that I was suddenly an adult, because that would have
revealed that I was not, in fact an adult. And
I wanted to be taken seriously in a way that

(04:01):
Tish is unaffected by and it's I'm in awe of it.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Tish, are you aware that you have that ability?

Speaker 4 (04:08):
I mean, but Brandy was one was the first person
to tell me that. But my mom had always told
me that I was a very like, unaffected, steady person.
So I think the fact that that's transferred into my music, like,
I'm glad that I have a sense of self that
kind of carries through both those things you do.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, Brandy, when you're working with Tish and you're reading
her lyrics or you're hearing the lyrics, does it take
you at all back to where you were when you
were seventeen eighteen? And does it make you sort of
like compare your experience.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Yeah, kind of, especially when you know, we did an
interview recently where somebody asked her who specifically she was
singing about in a certain song, and I watched her
kind of try to grasp for what that is, because
I sense that feeling of like I remember writing really
important and profound self revealing things about myself, probably not
as concisely as Tish does, but with the same intent,

(05:03):
and not knowing what it was about until fifteen years later,
and looking back on it, realizing the person that influenced that,
or the moment or the thing that influenced that, and
also realize that these are habits I'm repeating into middle age.
So yeah, I do. I see real parallels, and I
see someone that's better than I was by any measure,

(05:23):
just better, And I just think it's kind of intoxicating.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
I'm curious about your perspective now, having worked so much
with Joni, who's eighty, and Tish is now you just
turned eighteen, right, yeah, Sos is eighteen, and then Brandy,
you're somewhere in the middle. I don't want to out you,
but like, what has that made you think about the

(05:48):
lifespan of emotional life?

Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, it's weird. It kind of begins and ends similarly.
I've seen that happen. It's like this rainbow of starting
with a really strong sense of self, an impermeable sense
of self, and then ending with a really strong and
permeable sense of self and how those two shining moments
might actually be thes that we ever shine. It might
actually be the time that we're most important to the world,

(06:14):
and those are the times we get listened to the
least when we're either too young or too old. So
I really do see this just incredible commonality. And that's
why I've really loved drawing young people to Jony physically
to Joni, to her to sit at her feet within
a guitar and sing their songs for her, like in
her living room, and watch that exchange of purity and

(06:36):
energy and knowing that, like, yeah, this might actually be
a sweet spot.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Can you tell us about any like, any young artists
that you've brought to collaborate with Joni or just to
sit with her play with her.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
Oh yeah, I mean just the most recent one would
just be at the Grammys, just being on that floor
with Joan and seeing all these incredible young songwriters. And
I do think I'm not being hyperbolic when I say
I think we're in a real moment, like a Laurel
Canyon level moment of self revelation and songwriting and Tish
is a huge part of this, like I think one

(07:08):
of the strongest, most powerful voices doing it, And so
I really want her ep to be heard by people
of all ages, because I think she's very important. But
sitting on the floor of the Grammys and watching those
young artists wreck, they knew it. They knew before we
got there. They have her lyrics tattooed on their arms
and shit, you know, Like Gracie Abrams walked up to

(07:28):
me and she said something about how she likes my
music or whatever, and I completely shrugged it off. I
didn't even like actually had to write her something and apologize.
I just immediately knew what you need, what you're here for, honestly,
is to be introduced to Joni, you know. So I
just like didn't even listen to her. I just took
her by the hand that I said, Jony, this is

(07:50):
a beautiful songwriter, this is a beautiful young person that
you mean really a lot to and I want to
introduce you guys. And so Jennie was lovely and they
took a picture and it. You became a big moment
for Gracie in her life. And I've got to facilitate
a few of those moments of like full circle connectedness
between the two souls that know who they are and
get listened to the least, the oldest and the youngest.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
That's so incredible.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, we've seen it happen, you know. The Joni jams
have been really cool. And I remember watching Maggie Rodgers
have the same experience and Harry Styles have the same experience,
and then we've all had the same experience. You know.
I think that bringing older and younger people together is
like paramount and it finally feels possible.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
Yeah, it was just so special seeing Brandy introduce Joni
and being so close to her, and then seeing like
the entire musical family that I've been introduced to just
these past couple of years and spent so much time
with on stage with her while she's which like Joni
Mitchell is like the start of all the songwriting that
everyone's doing. And I feel like, like Brandy said, what

(08:52):
everyone's really returning back to now and then they're seeing
both sides now. I was like it was just all
too like I just lost it and I did not
recover for like, I just had to sit there in
silence afterwards.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
So I wish you'd been there with me.

Speaker 5 (09:06):
I know I was.

Speaker 4 (09:07):
I said I wasn't there, like I was telling my mom,
I was like, I feel like I should have been there,
Like it feels like that I was supposed to be there.

Speaker 5 (09:14):
But there'll be another opportunity, I hope.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Dude.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
It was pretty special.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
She's come up more in Broken Record conversations and interviews
than any other artist, hands down, from every genre. Everybody
always references Joni Mitchell, and it's just it's just incredible,
the power and the reach.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
She's like poet Laureette, like for our entire industry, Like
there's everybody can recognize themselves in her in one way
or another, and she's just like cool.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Do you think she gets it or it doesn't matter if.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
She accepts it And she gets it, but she's not
heady about it, like she doesn't want to dissect it.
She just wants to like be Joni Mitchell. And there's
just something not unlike you Tish, very steady about Joan nowadays.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, thank you Brandy for bringing her back into public life.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Oh my god, I'm just got I'm like, I'm Robin Man,
She's Batman. I'm following her around, just going this is
the coolest shit I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
It's so cool how it's developed. I've heard you tell
the whole story about how at first you weren't like
the biggest fan when you were first getting together with
Catherine right, and Catherine was like red flag, like, how
can you not be into Joni Mitchell?

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, Well it speaks to this exact thing that Tish
is so good at and so aware of that I
wasn't aware of, which is that Joni Mitchell smacked of
vulnerability to me, and that made me very uncomfortable. It
made me uncomfortable. I was uncomfortable with my feelings. I
was uncomfortable with my gender, and Joni kind of like

(10:47):
opening herself up for the whole world to see made
me feel like I would have to do that too
if I listened for too long. And I wanted to
be a different kind of artist at that time, and
so I was a late bloomer. And I'm so envious
of the fact that there's this whole wave of songwriters
now that are not late bloomers and that have accepted

(11:07):
the gift of their feelings destigmatized by this person, whereas
I was rejecting it. And when I stopped rejecting it.
It made me ready for a lot of what happened
to me then in my life, you know, from getting
married to being a mother. I'm not saying Joni Mitchell
made all those things possible. I'm just saying she was
one of the steps along the way that made it
so that I could actually accept that I was a

(11:28):
feeling person.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
It's incredible you have one thing to sort of point
to that started the domino effect.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, and then it ended this way that it ended
with me actually being able to be by her side
in times that she's vulnerable.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
You know. Yeah, pretty cool, super cool. So when you
were starting to record Tish's EP, did you Brandy bring
any sounds or any music that you wanted Tish to
hear and same Tish. Did you bring anything to Brandy
that you wanted sort of like reference pieces?

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Tish did.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
Yeah, I wrot a lot, Like I think that was
like a helpful Like I think Brandy and I were
on this page like from the very beginning about recording.
I think part of the reason was because I had
so many different reference people because I'm just like a fangirl,
like I just I go to so many concerts, and
I'm such a fan of all of these artists, and
so I didn't think too much about it. But I
just brought in like a playlist of songs that was like,

(12:26):
like my like the clearness of Lizzie mccapine's vocals, I
would really like my vocals and stuff like that, or
like the drums in this song, or like the guitar
in this song, or the feeling of this song, the
outro of this song. I think that directed the production
of Law, especially on like the day when we were
tracking it.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yeah, Tish really knows, like really knows what she likes
and is very clear, Like she doesn't just send you
a song and go, how do you feel when you
listen to this? She goes, I want you to listen
to this vocal sound, and I want you to hear
this outro this many bars in and you know it's
not even the guitar, it's the bell that you barely
hear in the outro. Like she's that specific about my God. Yeah,

(13:04):
production sounds and styles. I think you'll be a producer
or self produced some day too.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
I listened to the end of Scott Street by Phoebe
Bridgers and I was like, just listen to the child
the bell that's like that's like representing her childhood, and
like the little hard like the bike.

Speaker 5 (13:18):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
Yeah, I was like that feeling like that's how I
wanted the sober outro to feel like that emotional or
like that, like that one sound just brings you back
to like your childhood Street, which is like exactly what
that song does. Like, there's a couple songs that I
just don't let myself listen to very often because I
like don't want to get sick of them, and I
also don't want to feel sad.

Speaker 5 (13:39):
And Scott Street is one of those songs.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
My god, you love that song.

Speaker 5 (13:44):
It's so good.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah. And it was cool because No, I didn't bring
any references to the table and tell she would play
me those things, because what would happened is, you know,
I already felt a little underqualified to be the producer
for Tish on this project, just because I felt like,
sonically and just age wise that she was kind of
in a realm that I didn't really understand yet, you know.

(14:07):
And so when she started playing me Phoebe Bridgers, I'd
be like, oh, you like this, check out Elliot Smith
or you know, she'd play me these bands and I'd
be like, oh, you wait until I introduce you to
Team Dresh and Slater Kenny. Well, we're about to get
all up in the butchies now, and like you're gonna
listen to this music you know from like Portland and Seattle.

(14:28):
That was like in my foundations, and I realized that,
like it kind of we kind of have the same heroes,
even if they're separated by a generation or two. Music
is so ahless that you can just sort of come
across those divides if you can see who influenced too.
So it was really cool.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, what did you think of the older stuff, Tish?

Speaker 4 (14:48):
I mean, I'm like such a music nerd that, like
I like was well aware of like Elliott being such
like an influence to Phoebe. Like I just like do
like I just do research when like I just know
it's it's horrible. I just am like constantly doing research
on everyone's like personal life of like the musicians that
I know and like their influences. So I knew that,

(15:08):
but there's a lot of stuff that like you wouldn't
think that it related. Like remember when you showed me
to call your girlfriend's song that was like a cover
of another song, and it's like, I don't even remember
what song you were, Like, Oh, this is influenced by that,
But there's so many different aspects of it that like connected.

Speaker 5 (15:22):
And you wouldn't expect it to.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
Yeah, but yeah, I think that like Phoebe's influences being
Brandy's influences.

Speaker 5 (15:29):
I think that that pipeline was really cool.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
It revealed itself in the studio and it made me
feel so cool, Like I felt suddenly so capable of
doing the job and not letting Tish down because not
only did I know what she was wanting, but I
knew where it came from even And that is something
I'm going to take forward with me forever, is to
not have that kind of an adequacy creep in to

(15:54):
my thinking anymore. Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
I saw Brandy. Your name is all over the credits
on the EP. You're playing dulcimer, you're playing banjo, acoustic guitar,
electric guitar, backup vocals. Can you describe your approach as
a producer. A producer can mean so many things. Yeah,
how do you approach the job?

Speaker 3 (16:16):
Well, it's so by artist. You know, I've had projects
I've produced where I haven't touched an instrument. I'm not
a ficionado. I'm not an engineer, So I have like
a few engineers that I just they're like limbs to me.
I love them and trust them so much. With Tish, though,
it's because it's always by artist, like per artist. It
was like a totally unique process where we basically started

(16:39):
one day at Shangri La, which is the last place
I was when I did this podcast. We started in
one day and we got basic tracks where we tried
to like strap this band to Tish's innate rhythm while
she played guitar, and we kind of created basic tracks.
Some we used, some we didn't. When we left Shangri La,
we came to Seattle in this weird little treehouse room

(17:00):
that you see up here, and we just basically became
mixologists like alchemists building rocket ships and turning metal into
other metals, and we just created sounds together. So I'm
on there like as playing instruments, but really what it
was was just both of us experimenting with instruments we
didn't even really fully know how to play all the time.
And I love when those kinds of sounds come across.

(17:21):
You can't fake that shit. You can't fake that seeking ambiance.
And that's one of my favorite parts about this record
is you just hear scratches and pings and sounds that
aren't accidents, that are found in joy and fun.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
And how about you, Brandy, are you starting to work
on your own stuff?

Speaker 3 (17:38):
I just finished a project that is like monumental for
me that I can't talk about but you'll find out
about very soon. And I did some of the great,
my opinion, the most important writing I've ever done, and
I feel very satisfied as a writer in that sense.
I can't believe the things that got accomplished in that

(17:59):
three weeks.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Is it a collaboration album with an older artist who
we all know and love it very well? Maybe a
legacy artist, Wow, that's incredible.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
But there is nothing legacy about it. It's it's very
here and now and just enormous.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
That's exciting.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
It's very exciting. So that's like my next like big project,
and then after that, I'm gonna rediscover who Brandy Carlile is.
Like everything like I want to do. I want different hair,
I want different clothes.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Dude, you have good hair right now?

Speaker 3 (18:31):
Oh do I I'm wondering. Like I tried a new
thing at the Grammys. I liked it, but.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
Oh my god, I was like, I was like, I
thought I was watching like a rerun of an old
Grammys or something, because your hair was so different. Like
I thought it looked great, but I was like, wait, like,
I like didn't even recognize you for a second.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
I'm trying to figure out who I am next. I
don't know you know, I know who you are. That's
why I'm not taking any more production rolls for a while.
I'm gonna figure it out, though. Tish you could tell
me who I am next, or at least give me
some tips on a haircut.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
How are you feeling about everybody doing country albums all
of a sudden, Like Beyonce just announced she's doing her
country album and Lana del Rey's doing a country album.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Well, I think that country music as an institution is
fundamentally broken. So just tell you how I really feel
about that. I think it's a problem. It's a cultural
problem we have in America is the way that that
genre has played itself out as an ostracizing political tool
in a way to divide people. I'm not okay with it.
I don't like country radio as it pertains to music

(19:32):
and culture. I'm a country person, you know. I'm a
chicken farming, fisherman, cowgirl, and I love rural music, rural lyrics,
Americana music, roots music, folk music, and I love how
marginalized people, particularly people of color, are the architects of
that kind of music. So whenever Beyonce says she's doing
a country album, I'm willing to rethink my feelings about

(19:53):
country from the foundation up. And I would think that
if anybody could change it, I would damn sure bet
it'd be her, So go, go, go bag. But I
appreciate the idea of changing it more than the idea
of joining.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
We're gonna take a quick break and then come back
with more from Lee Rose, Tish Melton, and Brandy Carlile.
We're back with more from Tish Melton in Brandy Carlile.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Is the Chase the first song on the EP. Yeah,
there's a little i think it's thirty second little synth
intro and it really feels like you're opening a door
and walking into Tish's world. It's sort of like this
little like transitory little piece and then the song starts
is But I want to hear your intention with that.

Speaker 5 (20:46):
I'm so glad you said that.

Speaker 4 (20:48):
I like have an obsession with intros and outros, like
I feel like they're the most important part of a song,
because I do, like I don't know, there's like a
structure of a song that like I don't follow all
the time, but I follow a lot of the time,
and like that gets like boring to me, So like
either I change up the structure or I put like
a weird intro on it. We were like back and

(21:09):
forth on the intro because I remember, we're like, Okay,
it doesn't.

Speaker 5 (21:12):
Fit the song.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
We're taking it out because we want it to be
more grungey. But then like the nineties intro, I just
love SYNTHI intros, like the outro of sober Rue, or
like the big like world that it creates, Like I
don't think that any of those songs would be the
same without one. Yeah, And then I also just think
it makes the chase more fun and unexpected, like you
just don't expect that, Like I don't know you expect

(21:33):
a nineties sounding like synth song. And then like the
guitar like the muddy guitar starts, and I just think
it changes.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
It a lot. Yeah, it does, it totally does. I
remember like going back and forth on that intro, and
like most things as a producer, I default to the
artist's certainty. When they are certain, that's when you have
to acquiesce itce becomes really important. And I thought, like,
you know, I'm from Seattle. I thought the chase sounded
like it started like a Nirvana song, like it's right,

(22:00):
go good, got god guy. You know, it just felt
to me just scaragey and I loved that this like
EPI started out that way, you know, but then it's
like then the artist comes along, they tell you who
they are. And Tish's genuinely loves the cinematic intros and outros,
and she loved this intro. So we started pulling each
other across the center line, you know, when I when

(22:22):
I had to be faced with the fact that this
thing was wanted. On the beginning of this EP, I
had just started getting, well, what don't I like about
it exactly? Why does it bother me? And so we
started pulling a few elements out and adding a few
elements in and I think by the end of it,
I think that the beaker just got filled with the
right kind of solution and it fit and she was
right about it. Of course she's right about it.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
It's her.

Speaker 4 (22:43):
It's also so bold, Like at first, if I put
like a big, like cinematic intro or outro on a song,
I was word that people would be like, oh, like,
who does she think she is?

Speaker 5 (22:51):
Whatever?

Speaker 4 (22:52):
But it's like I hope people say that, like I
hope I'd do like bold things and people are like
taking it back by it a bit.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
God, you hope people say that.

Speaker 5 (22:59):
Yeah, Like I don't know.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
I love that.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
I think that that's like a like I want to
do bold things or like things that aren't expected. That's
also why like like that these specific songs are on
the EP because all of them are so different. And
it's like I was just talking about how since I'm
so new, everything feels like a first impression, which is
that's why there's a lot of pressure putting out a
first song because all the songs are so different. But like,

(23:22):
I don't think that there's any one impression of me
that you get on the EP other than like I'm
experimenting to and like, I have so many different feelings
and things that I want to say yep, and all
of these songs are so different because there's so many
different things that I want to do and I just
want to do them.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
No, it's amazing. That's what comes across. Like there's a
through line, which is that you can hear that this
is authentically one artist. It's one artist, but it doesn't
ever get mired in the one thing, Like one thing
is epic, one thing's a heartbreaking ballad. One of these
things is like of just like a ramone song. So
these there's no, it's not erratic, there's a through line,

(24:00):
but it's also like you can't skip any of these
songs because each one is such a different journey. For
only a five song collection, it's quite epic. That's one
of the reasons I thought, oh God, maybe it needs
to be an album, because we need more time to
even out these like spikes and dives that are in
this thing, and that the only real through line is
your steady rhythm guitar playing and your steady voice. But

(24:22):
then I started to really like that. You know, it's
like the Boy Genius record I think achieves that really well,
where you know, you've got cool about it, and then
you've got true Blue, and then you've got strong enough
and you got that the begin song at the beginning.
You know, they're all so different, but that's three songwriters
behaving three different ways, and you're one songwriter. But you

(24:43):
definitely have the ability to kind of head down some
interesting tributaries. I think because of who influences you. And
one thing about it is, no matter which tributary you
go down and how turbulent it is, you are still steady.
I don't know about that word. We keep using that word, tish,
What do you think about it?

Speaker 5 (25:00):
I like it.

Speaker 4 (25:01):
I just don't want I get worried that it's like, oh,
like boring, like like I want to like make unexpect
Like it's like there's like a part of me that
remain steady, But I don't want that to get confused
with like the same all the time.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
I would say steady. I would say that about The Cure,
and I would say that about Bruce Springsteen, like it's reliable.
Well yeah, and it's like it's immovable, is what it is?
Like you know that, like as an audience member, you're
not affecting the way Bruce Springsteen performs, he's doing that.

(25:34):
You know, it's not to be confused with placid or linear.
It's just immovable. It's just formidable. Yeah, maybe we need
to come up with a different word other than steady,
But for some reason, that just always like neon lights
in my head.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, I want to ask you about the song, Michelle.
It's a song about friendship. You know, when a friendship dissolves,
it can be as heartbreaking as a romantic relationship breaking up.
It's especially intense when you're a teenager, but it's also
intense in middle age. How did that song come to be?

Speaker 4 (26:09):
Actually wrote that song, Like two of my friends had
like a really weird like giving from one person and
taking from another person. But it kind of helped me
really understand one of their perspectives, because I think a
lot of teenage relationships is like feeling like you're too
much or like feeling so much for that person and
you don't know how to express that in a way
that doesn't put too much pressure on them like that,

(26:31):
Like the narrator was just giving too much to Michelle.
And it's not Michelle's fault for not reciprocating it, because
she like she's her own person and like it's not
her job too, But then you also just feel both
so bad for both parties in the story, which I
like about it because I think there's really no right answer,
especially in like girl friendships where there's so much like passion.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
There, which are so intense.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
It's so intense, like those like my most intense relationships
have been like girl friendships, which like it's like hard
to differentiate between what's like feelings that like you just
like don't like don't explain, or like what's like actually
just like a queer like like there's so much, so
many layers to it, but like that came from me
just trying to better understand one of my friends.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, Brandy, were you able to relate to that song
with your own experience with friendships changing as you've gotten
older or maybe as you've gotten more successful.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
I mean absolutely, it's like it's already strange, you know,
when you're queer to try and figure out what, identify,
what those feelings are, where they're coming from, how you
want to move forward with it, and those friendships change.
I mean, like you know, I'm a lesbian, Like we
literally like wind up married to each other's partners and shit,
and like staying best friends with our ex and it's like,

(27:48):
these friendships get really ambiguous. So a song I'll write
about a totally platonic relationship might wind up being romantic
eventually and then platonic again. So yeah, I think that. Yeah,
that's one thing Tish that's so ageless is that friendships
and connections between women and queer people are so bizarre
and unquantifiable, and you like, yeah, you might find yourself

(28:11):
in love with Michelle someday, you might find yourself being
Michelle someday, and then that song just changes, It just changes,
and it fits you, like this new coat that you
do or don't want to wear, but it's on you,
you know. Yeah, And I've written songs about a romantic
relationship and then ten years later, someone I know dies
and I realized that that song was actually written about

(28:33):
that moment that I didn't even know what exists yet.
It's such a funny thing what songs do to you
throughout life, because they're like little pieces of your soul
and you don't realize it, but like you're going to
repeat all of these thoughts and mistakes and it's not
that we can't grow or change. It's just that we don't.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah. So when you say that you write a song
and then later it morphs into a different meeting, is
it like a premonition?

Speaker 3 (28:58):
I think it might be something. Yeah, Like I'm not
going to get too into it, like because I'll sound crazy,
but I'm not totally sure that time is. We've talked
about this too.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
Tish Gosh, I was just thinking about this other day.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah. Sometimes I think we're just remembering when we think
we're like arrogant enough to be manifesting something for ourselves,
that we're just remembering it, you know. And like I
wrote a song called Cannonball one time about one of
my like high school best friends that was off to
do his second tour in Iraq, and then ten years
later I fell in love. I had an unrequited love

(29:31):
affair with someone, and I suddenly realized Cannonball could only
have ever been about that, you know, and it wasn't
even related.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Or so a totally different person, totally different person, but
I was still me.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
So the feelings I was having of anxiety and unrequited
love would just fit this new, totally different scenario. So
it's like you think you're writing about Michelle or Michelle's friend,
but it's like it really is you.

Speaker 4 (29:58):
Yeah, And a lot of the times for me, like
like people ask me a lot who specific song is about,
and I have clear answers for a lot of them.
But like a lot of times it was like I
was feeling like I want a song to feel a
certain way, and it like I can't, Like when I
think of Sober, like I don't think of one person
that I wrote it about. Like it's like I was
so obsessed with capturing a specific feeling with that song

(30:20):
that I completely forgot to write it to anybody or
for anyone, which, like I feel like a lot of
people say that that's like the opposite thing to do,
Like I know, I think it was like Elizabeth Gilbert
who said, like, when you're writing, always write to somebody
or like specifically for somebody, But that's just like not
I don't do that very often. Maybe it's like too

(30:40):
vulnerable or something. But like a lot of times I'm
writing about a feeling rather than a person or an experience.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
Wow, and then knowing it could change.

Speaker 4 (30:49):
Yeah, Like I'm sure Sober will like have an entirely
different meaning I.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
Feel like as a bird's eye view a person having
a bird's i view to that song. You know you
are addressing imposter syndrome in the end when you're reading
the Leonard Cohen poem. You live in a household and
have grown up in a family where sobriety is an
issue about you know, we're both like alan On kids.
So I recognize that when I see it. You're young,
and all your friends are starting to want to be

(31:15):
intoxicated during all their celebrations and their events. And there
are probably things about that because you're an insightful person
that you want to remember without that sene of you know,
intoxication over it. And so you have all these different
reasons to write a song like that, and you never
really need to explain the mystery to anybody. Those are
all true things floating around in the ether for you.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, as songwriters, do you think if you explain too
much about your songs or the inspirations behind your songs,
that it takes something away from the writing.

Speaker 4 (31:48):
That's happened to me like when an artist does that.
So I'm just like, I try to keep from doing
that because there's this one Adrian Lanker song that I
thought was like the most romantic song ever, and then
I go on genius lyrics and she's explaining that it's
like literally about like depression and like loving someone too
much that like they don't love you back. And now
it's like changed my perception of the song so much

(32:08):
that I like, it's like bumps me out every time
I listened to it, even though I thought it was
just a really cute love song. So I am very
aware of that, and I try not to explain it
too much, but obviously, I mean, I think songs take
different meanings for different people. So yeah, it's either like
reminding everyone that even if I explain it a certain way,
they can interpret it entirely differently, or just not explain

(32:29):
it too much.

Speaker 5 (32:30):
So they don't lose like any of their meaning that
they found in it.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
And this is hard to get your head around. You
might also be the one that's most wrong about what
your song is about, right because you're the closest to it,
and that, like people who are fascinated with your music,
you might be more right about what that girl wrote
the song about than she is.

Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yeah, that's like that's like damage, Like it was so
vulnerable for me that I was like, it's not about
a person. It's not about a person, Like, it's not
about a person, it's about a feeling. Like you guys
are wrong about that. And then finally I was like,
all right, like it's about this one's with a big person.
I was just too scared to say that because it's
like too vulnerable of a song.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
And you don't have to ever say that if you
don't want to, you know what I mean, You can
like almost you start to get this in practice about it.
Like there are people that have different philosophies about like
Bernie Toppin who's one of my favorite lyricists of all time,
hero every Elton Johnson, but he's a fantastical lyrist like lyricist,
so it's like never really super self exposing with him,
it's just kind of like fantasy. But he is adamant

(33:27):
that you never explain your lyrics because it'll start to
kind of dissolve your ability to connect to the other side,
like to the ether. Like if you intellectualize your gifts
that are coming in from a source, that you might
actually not be able to understand them as clearly, almost
like a clairvoyant or a medium or something I really

(33:47):
subscribe to, that you might start to intellectualize the gifts
that are so abstract and so esoteric so much that
you stop being able to understand the childlike thing that's
coming to you without you really understanding it. So as
you strive to understand it, you kind of erode at
the purity of it. You know that sounds kind of

(34:08):
high minded, but it's what happens.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, Tish, are you always Are you the type of
songwriter who's always writing or do you have like what's
your process? Do you sit and are you intentional about it?
Or do things come to you and you have to
quickly get it down.

Speaker 4 (34:23):
I mean, I always have my phone that like has
note like my notes app. So if ever, like anything
comes to me when I'm like just walking around, I'll
put it in there. But a lot of times I'll
spend like weeks just writing down like individual lines I
think are cool, and then I feel like I'm being
productive because I'm like, oh, I have one line of
a song that could turn into a song. So eventually
I have to sit myself down in like the quiet

(34:44):
of my room and look back at all of like
the notes app that I've been collecting, and a lot
of times I can combine them because I'll go through
times when I'm like feeling the same thing for a
really long time and then eventually a song comes out
of it. But most of the time I have to
be very intentional about it, or else I just won't
sit down and do it.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
And how about you, Brandy, how does your do you
have a relationship with amused? Do you feel like things
come to you at certain points?

Speaker 3 (35:10):
Yeah, but I have to like sit down and open
myself up to it for a few weeks or something,
you know, and just try to turn off all the
other hats because I just am so passionate about other
people and so many other things, and you know, I
can get really righteously caught up in stuff like Tesh's music,

(35:31):
you know, and other people's things. And I think that's good,
a good thing for me, because one thing I trust
is that the muse is always there and whenever I'm
ready to sit down and listen, that the idea has
come to me. So I've never actually been blocked. But
I'll go two years and not write a song. It
was two years before I wrote Between the Joke and
Right on time, you know, And it was just like

(35:52):
I just trusted it, just trusted it would come back,
and I and I trust it'll come back again when
I when I'm ready for it.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
Do you have specific conditions that you have to create?

Speaker 3 (36:02):
I mean, to be totally honest with you, I'm just
not a mystical person and I just like it. But
this has got to go away the phone. If this
is anywhere within reach, it ain't gonna happen. And I've
accepted that, you know, because I remember before those things.
You know. In fact, there's these it's really wild. I
used to write way, way, way more songs, some of

(36:23):
them really bad. So you know, I don't really write
too many bad songs anymore, I don't think. But there
were these two venues, because I spent my whole adult
life on the road, there were these two venues where
there's no Wi Fi, no cell service. So it's like
a big top Chautauqua in Bayfield, Wisconsin and weirdly enough,
Mishawaka Amphitheater in Colorado and the Rocky Mountains. And every

(36:45):
time I would play that gig, I would write songs
in the day, and I started to realize I was
writing songs on the only day of the tour that
I didn't have any connected tissue to the outside world.
And it became this tradition where I go to those
places and I write songs when I'm on tour.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
It's so cool.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
So yeah, it's really big part of it. It's just
sounding a cliche, but having a phone.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
What are you getting distracted by? Are you like on
social media or what's sucking you in?

Speaker 3 (37:16):
Hopefully not social media? I mean more than I'm proud of,
but I think mostly just I'm so easily activated by
other people in my community. I love being in my community,
showing up with people and doing collaborations and jumping out
on stage in somebody else's show and orchestrating a dinner
at Jonie's house and being at the GRAM. I mean everything.

(37:38):
I love it. I love being having friends and being
in a community and stuff like that because I didn't
have that when I was in school.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, it's so I mean, it seems so genuine and
you seem so happy and like you're genuinely having so
much fun collaborating with other people. It's so great to
see because it seems like there's not a lot of
that anymore. But like you said, I feel like maybe
it's coming back.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah, young people are doing it, like really young people
are doing it, and I'm like, invite me.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
I guess Noah kN is like leading it for like
that genre, like you could literally collaborate on every single
song with someone else.

Speaker 5 (38:13):
Yeah, And it's like so I'm like, it's like so.

Speaker 4 (38:15):
New to my generation, but like it's like everything cyclical,
like it's coming back from like older generations to now.
But there's like some artists that are like really embracing.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
It, dude.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
And I mean I'm not trying to be like sinister
or sus about this, like and not to do too
much music industry inside ball, but I kind of feel
like with streaming, when it became we were getting all
this label pressure and all this pressure from the DSPs
to like collaborate artists. This happened like six or seven
years ago, I think, where it was like you would

(38:48):
release a song and then the label will want you
to do the collaboration version of that song, you know,
and then the streams they calculated on the back end
the same way, and it would boost your numbers because
then people would be listening to your version and the
collaboration version that you did with somebody else. So I
think it almost started out as like this industry inside
ball thing for people to do collaborations so they could
double their streams. But then what it turned in too,

(39:10):
unbeknownst to the suits, is that it created these fibers
between people. And now you see these artists that collaborated
because they got told they had to to get their
songs listened to. But they started coming to each other's
birthday parties and they started collaborating then because they wanted to,
and they joined each other's bands, and they became godfathers
to each other's children when they were being born. And

(39:31):
before you know it, there's a real community around something
that didn't get created for that, but has resulted in that.
And I think Noah is a really good example of
somebody that's just doing it because now that's what we do,
and that's great.

Speaker 5 (39:45):
Yeah, it's just joyful.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah. I don't know if you both saw the We
Are the World documentary that was on Netflix.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
I'm all about it. I can't wait to see it
once see Bop Dylan and that thing.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
It's so excellent and you just get such a sense
of everybody's personality.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
And really, oh yeah, who's the standout to you?

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Uh? Lionel Richie is like the Paul mccarr andy of
the It's a big group of people, okay, and Lionel
is like the leader and organizer. And you get to
see Quincy at work and the people who had solos,
they set them up in a horseshoe and they just
have to step up to the mic and just go.

(40:27):
And so you get such a sense of their voice
and their talent and what they're capable of. Wow, and
it's incredible.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Whoa are there people that are like really shy and
then people that are encouraging them.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yes, yes, Huey Lewis his legs are shaking and he
has to sing after Michael Jackson. But it would be
so cool, Brandy. I feel like you're the one to
organize this. You should do a new We Are the
World with this new Laurel Canyon set that you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
I'd be like, Lionel, that's actually right. That feels right
to me. No, that would be so cool. I'm so
enamored with so many of these artists right now, Like
I'm just like listening to everything they do. And I'm like,
holy shit, those lyrics are so smart and oh my god,
that's so true. And why why weren't we writing about
our actual lives?

Speaker 5 (41:13):
Then?

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Why were we projecting into the future? Why are we
trying to keep up with or mimic older people mirror
older people's lives, Like they're not doing that. And I
don't think I would have been as exposed to them
as I have been if it hadn't been for Tish.
You know, a combination of the fact that they're all
coming out is completely influenced by Joni and then Tish

(41:34):
actually sending me all these records and going, this is
the kind of music I'm making, and this is the
scene I want to be a part of.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
We're going to pause for our last break and then
come back with more from Brandy Carlyle and Tish Melton.
We're back with the rest of Leo Rose's conversation with
Brandy Carlyle and Tish Melton.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Tish, tell me about how you actually started playing because
you started playing guitar first, right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:03):
Someone asked me today, like they're like, what was it
like picking up a guitar and realizing you were like
better than a lot of people at doing it, and
I was like, that is not all what happened, because
I picked up the guitar and then my mom tried
to teach me a couple of chords and my fingers
hurt and I like stormed away because I wasn't good
at it and like refused to do it again, and
then COVID hit. I had nothing to do, so I

(42:24):
was kind of like losing my mind, and my mom
put the guitar back in my hand and told me
that she had signed up for lessons, just like remote lessons.
So the beginning of my music career is definitely like
against my will a little bit because I was very
uncomfortable playing the guitar because I had very small hands
and it was very stressful to work with a stranger.
But after like three months of playing guitar, I remember

(42:46):
my mom saying, like, You're much better than I was
when I played for three months, and so that's when
I started realizing like, okay, I'm okay at it. And
then after like about a year, I like was just
like I was, I was like a good guitar player,
and I just started like really writing.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
So the songwriting came after learning to play guitar.

Speaker 5 (43:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:05):
I remember I wrote like my first song after Folklore
came out because I was in Georgia in the mountains
and I was listening to Folklore on a walk and
I was like, I need to write, Like I was
so inspired and I needed to write something. And then
I didn't show anyone my music because I didn't really
know how to write a song, and like, if I
look back at those songs, they're kind of horrible. Like
I was just really young. And then Lucy Dakis came

(43:28):
out with Home Video in twenty twenty one, and like,
after listening to that, I was like, oh, like that's
how I want to write songs, Like I want to
be like that, like honest and simple, and so I
started write, like really really writing after that, and like
getting brave enough to show my music to other people,
which just started out being my parents, and they of
course were like this is incredible, Like this is amazing.

(43:50):
I didn't really believe anyone that I was good until
Brandy said, so.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Oh, what about when you got on stage for the
first time, did you believe you were good then? Because
people aren't nice, you know, and especially not in LA
and for you to get up on stage at the
Troubadour and get the response that you got. I mean
hopefully at that point it might have resonated like Okay, no,
this is I belong here.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (44:13):
I think I knew that I was good for my
age and like, well, I was like fifteen, and so
I was like or sixteen, and I was like, I
know that I'm young enough that people are not gonna boom.
Like I was like, this will be fine. And I
also knew that I had been writing for so long
and performing and I knew that I had something, and
so it was more like a relief when I got
off stage and did well that people started like that

(44:34):
my parents started believing like that I was good, like
because other people. I got that feedback from other people
because I was like, I was worried that I wo'd
mess up or something, and my parents would be like okay,
Like it was like she's like, ook, She's okay. But
I just knew that I was gonna do well. Like
I just wasn't nervous for that for some reason. Mostly
maybe I was just trying to calm my parents down
because they were freaking out. I just had to be

(44:55):
a little bit calmer than they were.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Do you have any hesitation in writing songs that you're
going to reveal something that's too intimate that you don't
want your parents to hear, or you don't want Brandy,
who's your parents' friend to hear.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
It's good question.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
I mean, I think, like the best thing about music
is like the feelings that you write about are never
things that someone else hasn't felt before. So like, if
I'm writing about a specific feeling, I don't think I'm
ever scared that to share it. I mean, it's it's
a vulnerable things. Like if I wrote a song like Damage,
I didn't show that to anyone for so long because
it was just like a like revealing that I had

(45:31):
felt that way was vulnerable, but the actual feeling itself,
Like I knew that my mom had felt that feeling before,
like Brandy had felt that feeling, or one of my
friends or fans or anyone like. I think there's just
like the universal aspect of songwriting that's what makes it special.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
Yeah, we're all so narcissistic. All we think is I
can relate to that.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
Yeah, exactly, I won't relate any song.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
At We don't even think about you long enough to go.
I wonder when she thought that.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Yeah, yeah, I know. It's like sometimes I feel like
I listened to music just to try to learn more
about myself.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
You know, the song was written for me. Yeah, no,
I know. It's true. We're human beings, man, We're just critters.
You're right, we have felt it all before. And that's
actually that was a really good question that never that
ever occurred to me. But like, yeah, you know, then
there's been a strange crossover with me and Tish becoming
peers but also having this kind of family latitude that's happening. Yeah,

(46:26):
because me and Kath and Glennon and Abbey, like we're
all raising daughters, we're all raising kids, you know, so
we have this connection. But then I think, just out
of pure unchecked talent, Tish and I have found a
parallel course that's just different. It's it doesn't cross over,

(46:46):
you know. I find myself cursing, I use the filthiest
I have the filthiest mouth, and the things I talk about.
I'm like a sailor, and I would check myself around
Tish's brother and sister, but I wouldn't check myself around Tish.
It's like she's in a band with me or something,
And I wouldn't even want Glennon and Abbey to know
that should I talk about or the way I talk,
because it's different. It's this is these are this is

(47:08):
another to mention. That's the family dimension. But there's like
we're rock and rollers, me and Tish, like we have
this other language that's just sort of ours.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
Yeah, and so many different ways too, because like I
don't know, I feel like part of the reason why
I like talking to Brandy with like other people is
like I feel like no one gets it. It's like
we're like we like make music together, but like and
like we have this mental relationship and she's like like
another mom to me. But like we're also just like friends,
Like we like went to the boy Ges concert together,

(47:37):
and we're just like ta like talking like friends. There's
like so many different aspects of our relationship.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
Yeah, that's true, isn't it. It's just as a shell
like anything's possible.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Yeah, because I was thinking from your perspective, Brandy, if
because Tish is your friend's kid, and I have a kid,
and I know when I get together with other parent
friends we talk about our kids. But then you don't
actually have the type of relationship now that you all
have been in the trenches working together, you never really
get the opportunity to get that close with them and

(48:06):
really know them as a person. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
And I feel the trust from Glenna and abuy to
like and even Craig, Like, I feel the trust from
them that they trust me and Tish's friendship, but also
that they know that it's not an extension of their parenting.
Uh huh, It's totally different, and there's trust there because
they actually can't trust me to implement their parenting in
my relationship with Tish. Like we're gonna say whatever Tish

(48:30):
needs to say because it's a different relationship. And that's
that's actually quite cool. Mm hmm. I've never thought about
it until just this moment.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
How long did it take you to get comfortable with
Brandy Tish in the studio in that domain, Like, I'm
sure it was kind of like, what like super intimidating.

Speaker 4 (48:49):
Yeah, I had like shadowed her for a day or
two days when she was recording with Brandy Clark. Yeah,
and so that was when I was kind of getting familiar,
and I remember being so uncomfortable, Like I was so
nervous and like didn't know what to do with myself.
But I think that like I think the second I
got into the studio to record my songs, like, I

(49:09):
don't remember feeling any discomfort. Like I just think right
away I felt very comfortable. And I think it came
from like just starting out, Brandy and me on the
couch just playing through my songs and trying to figure
out if we were on the same page about them.
I think that helped a lot.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
It also came from you shadowing too, because you saw
me working with another forty five year old adult, and
you saw that we change things. We still make changes
to these songs and to these chords, and then you
could see that changing things isn't akin to fundamental criticism.
It's just kind of part of creating. And you know,
you're like a real artist, so you're not touchy, but

(49:45):
it means something to you when something gets changed a
chord or a lyric, you know you have the final word.
But I sense that just discomfort at first, and that
discomfort is again, is the tenet of like a true
is a basic tenet of like a true artist. And
I think if you hadn't seen those changes, taking place
with an older artist, you may have been had to

(50:07):
confront some inadequacies, feelings of inadequacy that wouldn't be accurate,
but having never seen production unfold before, could totally be
forgiven and understood. So, yeah, you saw those things happen.
You saw those changes get implemented. You saw that those
songs were still Brandy Clarks at the end of the day,
and that everybody went home happy. And then you and
I got in the studio, and I think it was
easier for us to tighten screws and make changes for

(50:30):
that reason.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
I also think watching you work with another artist, especially
someone as like talented and like respected as Brandy Clark,
and then like see how like the level of respect
or like how seriously you took her was similar to
how seriously you took me. That was like super important
for me to know in the beginning, because I'd like
I didn't know, I didn't know like what like the
vibe was, Like, I didn't know if it was a

(50:53):
favor or like a like you know, I think that
became clear to me in the beginning.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
Yeah, I think that's really moving for you to even
say or bring up that you ever wondered if it
was a favor, and that's like a really cool, really strong,
and really vulnerable thing to say, And actually the answer
is absolutely fucking not. You know, I love I love

(51:19):
you guys, I love your family, But music, like I
will cut through anyone like a hot knife through butter
for music to prevail, And unless I really believe that
it's great and I'm putting good art, you know, into
the world with the help of a good artist, then
I would find other ways to support you.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
How much music gets sent to you, Brandy, Like how
many people are trying to get you to produce them.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
I get asked a lot, especially lately, by my heroes,
like heroes are coming along, and I have to be
really careful because I will gladly just jump into their
skin and live their life like happily. I'll get right
into it. Their whole cause will become my cause. So

(52:05):
I have to be really clear about where I'm at
in my life and if I can afford to do that.
I think I'm learning as a producer. I don't know
how to casually make an album. I don't know how
to not make it a spiritual thing and not become
really invested in that artist and their music, and then
how that music is received after the fact, and then
make sure that people are understanding that how important they

(52:26):
are to the world. Like I just's a really mission
based producer. So I do get asked a lot, but
I really probably couldn't do this more than once or
twice a year, even if I wanted to.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
How does it affect you outside of the studio if
you are working with an artist and you're jumping into
their skin, and then you have to go home and
deal with everything that goes on at home, raising the kids, marriage,
how are you able.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
To I usually stuck my wife into it. By the way,
my life then becomes invested in that person too. Yeah,
it's just hard, Like yeah, it becomes a family thing,
like our whole family gets involved, you know, and it's
just so satisfying. If that's what life is, great, I'm
into it. I don't feel like there are any deficiencies,

(53:14):
but I do know. I do know that, like it's
a magical feeling that I have to be careful. I
don't dilute by doing too often. So I do get
a lot of music, and I do get asked a lot,
but I'm only going to do it a few times
here and there when I know it's just spot on
the right thing to do musically, like it was with Tish.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Tell me about performing at the at Brandy's Girls Just
Want To Festival. The venue was a little bit unconventional
the stage. Tell me from your perspective what that experience
was like.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
Just be honest. It's a pool full of gaye, That's
what it was.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
I mean, I just think I always feel so safe
in those like I think I'm so spoiled with like
for like some of my first big shows, I get
to play in front of Brandy's crowd because they're so
nice and they're so supportive. And maybe I'll have to
go to the real world it sometime soon and maybe
people won't be as nice, But for now, I'm really

(54:06):
grateful to be able to play in front of support
of crowds like that.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Yeah, how is that for you? Brandy? Being on stage
with Tish, I love.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
It so much. I just like watching her stand there
and just like have all this agency, just like owns
her space. I don't care who she's in front of.
She's gonna garner the same reaction, which is awe, Like
everybody's in awe of like how this certainty is coming
out of this of this person, and that certainty is
comforting and beautiful and it's wisdom, It's sage wisdom. People

(54:36):
need it. And at the same time you are so
self aware, Tish. I mean, I get as much from
your interviews in these conversations with you as I do
your music. I just think your really important voice.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Thanks well, thank you both so much for doing this,
and best of luck with the EP, and I can't
wait to hear more songs in the future.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
What a great chat. Thank you. That was a blast,
and I can't wait to chat about my next project
with you.

Speaker 5 (55:02):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
I love this podcast.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
Oh thanks Ish Melton and Brandy Carlisle for talking about
their creative partnership. Tish's EP, When We're Older is out
now and you can hear all of our favorite songs
from Tits and Brandy, along with some of the songs
mentioned in this conversation on a playlist at broken record
podcast dot com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube

(55:27):
dot com slash broken record Podcast, where you can find
all of our new episodes. You can follow us on
Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited
by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler and
Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliney. Broken Record is
a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show

(55:47):
and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin
Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and
ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look
for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you
like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review
us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats.

(56:08):
I'm justin Richmond.