Janelle Monàe and Nate Wonder: World Happiness Day Bonus

In recognition of this month's World Happiness Day, we are presenting one of our favorite episodes from last year with Janelle Monàe and her longtime collaborator, Nate Wonder. Janelle's latest album, The Age Of Pleasure, was created in part as a celebration of black love and community. And as Nate Wonder shares in this interview with Justin Richmond, one of his guiding principles when making the album was to make Janelle smile.

As part of Pushkin Industries' network-wide celebration of World Happiness Day, we will also be sharing an episode of The Happiness Lab from our brilliant colleague, Laurie Santos later this month.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. Hey there, it's justin Richmond. We're revisiting an episode
we recently put out with Jenell Money to celebrate World
Happiness Day. We're part of the Pushkin network. In one
of my colleagues, Laurie Santos, who hosts the Happiness Lab podcast,

(00:35):
ask me to share an episode that makes me happy,
and to be honest, nothing made me happier than this
episode with Jenell mone and Nate Wonder. So to celebrate
World Happiness Day and the World Happiness Report that the
UE puts out every March, and in honor of my
colleague Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab, have fun. Were
listening to this conversation I have with Janelle Monee and
Nate Wonder. Also, we'll be putting an episode of the

(00:58):
Happiness Lab in this broken record feed shortly, so stay
tuned for that. This is broken record liner notes for
the Digital Age just Mission. Here's my conversation with Nate
Wonder and Janelle Monae. Happy birthday, Thank you Rammy nomination. Yes,
Album of the Years. Yeah, it's like two in a row.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Now, I know that's a big deal.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
I know it's a big deal.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
I'm still just so humble, very big, not just progressive
R and B album, but like album of the year,
Like that's some crazy, that's wild.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah. I watched a lot of my heroes get it
and be on that stage, and like it's it's really
a dream to be able to not just shine light
on the work that I do, but you know, Nate's
here as well. He worked heavily on the music and
production and writing with me and everybody else who you
know was a part of the album. They get recognized too.

(01:53):
So that's the beautiful thing about being in that category.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, no, absolutely, Yeah, I wanted to ask about the
collaborative since I have the pleasure of both of you guys,
which is it feels special to me, So I was
I was curious about how you guys collaborate on it.
I mean, you guys been working together alone time.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
First of all, every project, every album since my EPs
where I was selling them out of the trunk of
my car in Atlanta. We've been able to have, you know,
a creative bond and just like evolution together and it's
just been really a fun ride. Lots of fun things
happen in the studio. It feels like family. It feels intentional.

(02:34):
It's magical.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Absolutely. Where were you both at when you guys first.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
Met in Atlanta? We met at Morehouse Janelle was she
was living like in the.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
Area Parsons Street. Yeah, boarding house next to Club Woody
in the AUC Club.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Woody is the name of the library.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
Okay, you go there though, because it's in the middle
of all three campuses.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
It's kind of like a club.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
You never know in Atlanta what that could.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
Bet It's actually actually the university library. And she would
throw shows on the steps. And I was just out
of college. I had lost my scholarship in my junior
year of college because I was writing music. And so
after I graduated, like I could really take the time

(03:21):
to focus on my music the way I wanted to.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
So in college you knew that like music was where
you were focused, That's where your attention was.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
But why did you lose? What happened? You need to
tell him exactly a moment that will let you know
how serious you were.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
I mean I had I had two full scholarships to school,
and I lost both of them because I how do
you get too? NASA gave me a scholarship, and the
school gave me a scholarship separately, and I just had
both of them.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
I had one like as a backup, I guess idea.

Speaker 4 (03:55):
But I was in a math test and I was
doing well on the test except for like in the
middle of the test, I had this song come to
me and I just felt compelled to get up and
I went to my dorm room and I wrote the
song and I did not finish the test, and it
caused my GPA to crater.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
And that's why I lost my scholarship.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yay, was that and that's how we got to make music.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
I mean, thank god he lost his NASSA And I
mean in any other scenario, that's a tragedy. Yeah, but
it seems to have been the right path.

Speaker 4 (04:33):
It felt tragic at the time too, after I realized
that happened. In the moment, it felt like, this is
what you're supposed to be doing. You need to just
listen to this.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Was that common for you to just up and leave
whatever you were doing, wherever you were at, whoever you
were with, YO, get an idea.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, but not a test. It had not happened like
that was something that cost me so much.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
In the movie of Your Life was a pretty high stake,
you know what I mean, it was.

Speaker 4 (04:59):
And it felt like a big mistake afterwards. For a
little while, it felt like, wow, that was crazy.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
My dad was like, you're crazy. You absolutely lost your mind.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Were your parents academically folks, like, I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
How scholarship My dad has a doctorate in music actually,
and he wasn't active in music in that kind of way.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
He's a professor, so he's yes, he's yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
You grew up with a lot of theory and things,
and I grew.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
Up watching him write music composed and like he was
writing operas and all that kind of stuff, and like,
so I saw that growing up, and I learned a
lot of instruments kind of. I got introduced to a
lot of instruments early on, and I got introduced to
the idea of composition very early.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
But he was not. He was like that it is dumb.
Just so we can be clear, that's dumb.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Did you know him at the time.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
I didn't know. You didn't know each other. That was
you know, I met him after he probably did some
healing from the traumatic experience of losing your scholarships.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
I learned how to focus. That's what I learned from that.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
I always hold that as like a lesson in focus,
like what it takes.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Focus on the thing at hand, or focus on the
creativity that's taking away.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
Actually you know, you know it's interesting, like it's just
pick something and do that thing. So the idea of
the multitasking and all that kind of stuff, I understood
how detrimental that could be to whatever the dream that
I had was. So if it was music, like I
know that. Like the feeling I had when I was
in the class was, Hey, you're not pursuing the thing

(06:38):
that you're supposed to be pursuing right now, and you
are going to feel sick about that at some point
in time. Right now, you feel sick, so you need
to go write that song. Later on I felt like, okay,
I but I made a commitment, and so you know,
it's about just commitment focus not being distracted. And when
I finished college, I was like, Okay, now I'm going
to focus and I wanted to do that.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
You did finish, yes, and you paid?

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah I had to pay.

Speaker 4 (07:03):
Oh yeah, that's what I'm saying. Hey, last year I
got a scholarship for part of it. I got a
scholtship to go live in Spain. So they paid me
to go. I did get another scholarship.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Too, smart man, but I.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
And tell them what you know?

Speaker 4 (07:21):
What?

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Tell them what you got that scholarship in Spanish, which
I sucked in. I failed Spanish high school year, but
Spanish major in Spanish.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Look at you? Yeah, did you did you study any
music Spanish music while you were in Spain?

Speaker 2 (07:38):
No?

Speaker 4 (07:38):
I studied Spanish art and architecture actually, And so when
I went to Spain, I was like, let me not
pursue music right now.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Let me focus.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
I'm not going to bring any of my instruments, like
I would never not have a guitar in my hand.
And so I was like, I'm going to go to Spain.
I'm not going to have any instruments. I'm going to
focus and I'm going to just do what I'm here
to do. And I went there, and what's crazy is
that the place that I lived was directly next to
a music conservatory. So I would wake up in this

(08:08):
girl would play the flute every morning.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
It would wake me up. Every morning.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
I would hear musicians playing all day. And I was like, man,
I got And so I was there I bought a
flute and like taught myself to play the flute, but
that was it. I was like, let me just that's
small enough.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, so that's more of a hobby than a real
stick pursuit. Similarly, you early on were kind of like
possessed by creativity, right, mm hmmm.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
I like that possessed. Yes, there was never a time
where I wasn't singing. I don't remember like singing, acting, partying,
doing exactly what it is that I'm doing. I was
talking to a friend and she reminded me. She was like,
remember in sixth grade when we used to throw these
parties and you would charge a dollar for people to

(08:53):
get in, and I got I skipped school to hand
out flyers. It was a whole thing. But at that
same time, I was on every talent show stage in
Kansas City, in every musical theater production. And you know,
it's morphed into conserts Now and the Age of Pleasure
album and being driven by by just the things that

(09:15):
I love. I'm so thankful that I still can can
do that. And for me, when I went to school
in New York after you know, after high school, went
to school in New York, and I thought, oh, I
want to do musical theater. As soon as I got
out there and started going to see plays and stuff,
I was like, man, ugh, I'm not excited about any
of the roles that they're offering. You know, people that

(09:37):
look like me.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
What were you? What kind of roles were you getting?

Speaker 3 (09:40):
Well, we couldn't really audition, but like there was no
there was maybe one strong black woman leading something there
was not right now, Broadway has changed, like it's it's
it's a lot more diverse, a lot more stories, a
lot more uniqueness. And the only thing, because I'm from Kansas,
the only thing I think people saw me doing was

(10:00):
The Wiz, and The Whiz wasn't on Broadway. And I'm
just like, I love the Wiz, but where is the
new energy, the new stories? And I had so much
bubble because I'm a writer as well, and I decided that,
you know, I was going to quit, So I quit
school in New York. Everybody thought I was crazy too.
That was my like you're crazy moment because coming from Kansas,
such a small town to get there, They're like, wow,

(10:22):
you're in New York. You're living the dream. And little
do they know, I was sleeping in the same bed
as my cousin because I could not afford housing there,
and so I was commuting from like one hundred and
forty ath An, Amsterdam to like seventy second and Broadway
every single day Monday through Friday. Wow, I mean I
learned a lot about surviving. And I was just like,

(10:43):
you know, poor, but excited about the arts and excited
about finally figuring out what did Janelle Robinson have to say?
Because I wasn't even going by Jane one. I had
not tapped into the center the core of what I
had to say because I was spending so much time
singing everybody else's songs.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Why the transition of jenem on a them from Janel Robinson?
What about that felt more like the authentic place to
create farm.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
Well, I knew about the painter Monet, and I always
thought like, that's that's a great artist name, and it
just so happens to be my real name. My middle
name is done. My aunt actually she was like Janelle Monett,
Janelle Monet. She calls me that all the time, like
when she sees me, and it just it sucked.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Before it wasn't like a kid like your family and
where you come from, none of it.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
I just thought Monet felt like an artist name and
it was my name, and it was like, yeah, okay,
I get to reinvent, you know, who, what I can be,
how I can say it, how I see myself. And
it was so great. So that's when I moved to Atlanta,
and that's when I met Nate Rocket Wonder, I met
Chuck Lightning, I met Michael Moore, who were all still
working together. They were at Morehouse. They ran this arts

(11:59):
collective called the Dark Tower Project, and they would bring
musicians poets to Morehouse and I was one of the
people who performed that night. And I just saw like
this kind of black cosmopolitan in Atlanta, Like it was
just this melting pot of just excellence and creativity and
freedom of expression. I had never seen anything like it,

(12:20):
and I wanted to be around that, and I wanted
to make music for them. I wanted That's who I
wanted to make music for. And so when I started
to write, I would sit out, like Nate was saying,
I would sit on the library steps of Club Woody
and I would just play guitar, sing my songs. People
would walk by, some would stop and listen. Some would
keep moving. I would go to dorm lounge just sit
on the couch and get perform. Like to anybody that

(12:41):
would listen, I was. I was like, I don't give
a damn. I have to know is this for me? Like,
do you guys like what I have to say? Like
can I make my purpose and passion and also career aligne.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, that's a scary time because you don't you don't
really know that, and me have the confidence to not
necessarily care, but you don't. At the same time, I
don't really know. You don't know.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
Like one of the reasons why we really connected was because,
like I know it sounds it's very basic, but we
love art, and I think that we were inspired by
meeting other people who loved art. Like really we're just
like fall in love with art, you know, just be
obsessed over it. Just sit up all day and think

(13:27):
about something that they read, or a.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Painting that they saw, or just a song. Just sit
there and cry to a song.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
And just like.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
I know that Janelle and I have a very spiritual
connection that music. It really it's like the catalyst for
that and it catalyzes it all the time. It's something
that I know that we can always tap into, like
besides being like good thought partners and like, you know,

(14:00):
there are wonderful myriad things about Janelle that make her
a great like human being. But on a musical level,
she is very past about music, Like if I play
certain chords, it can make her cry, and that is
something that also happens to me, Like I can hear
certain songs certain chords, and it doesn't have to do

(14:22):
it necessarily the lyrics. Always Sometimes the lyrics, yes, and
poetry is beautiful and that's another you know, but just
like music and just being really just emotionally brought to
your knees over how good music can be. And we've
shared so many of those moments, and that was like

(14:43):
the beginning of that time where we got to really
just pass music back and forth and be shocked and
just sit in awe with each other as we would
just listen to what could be done.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
I think one of the things that I loved early on,
and the reason why I think we've worked so well
together musically is because Nate is a student of music,
and so when it comes to like anything that I
want to do, there's nothing we can't do from string
arrangements to you know, core progressions, horn arrangements, melodies, like

(15:21):
there's no genre. We've been genres with each album. You know,
it's all about how do we create our own musical language.
And I love that. I always have to feel pushed
and stretched, and I think that's what is the exciting thing,
because it's like we literally have the the mind and

(15:41):
the student heart, like we never stop being.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Student, always at the beginning.

Speaker 3 (15:47):
Always it's always a new whiteboard, you know, the ideas
ready to be put down.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
It sounds to me like you guys are just always
creating things, regardless of like there's an album doing or
you know, or it's been a minute or you know.
It's like it's just that's how you guys are inhabiting life.
It's just creating every day or you know, the days
that it feels right to do.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Yeah. I mean I didn't get into music because of
awards or because of you know, recognition or anything like that.
Music is truly healing. I need music like I need
a song in my darkest hours. I need a song
in my most celebratory stage. I need a song when
you know, I want to communicate something that my own

(16:29):
words can't say, and I need to be able to
write when I'm feeling frustrated or when I'm like it's
a way. It has helped my mental health so much, Yeah,
so much.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
You know, when I was listening again for like the
umpteenth time this morning on my watt to the Age
of Pleasure, I was wondering listening to it, it might
be the possible question to answer, but whether these songs
were for you or for other people? Because I in
a way I've realized that as I've been listening to it,
I've been taking it as like you giving mantras to

(17:00):
me that, but it occurred to me to that I'm like,
maybe you needed to write this for you too, And
I don't know how you were approaching that, but.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
It's for all of us. It's for us, and that
means a lot to hear you say that, because I
think one of the most important things as an artist
is your ability to communicate. And as much as I
can say like, oh, I just want to do an
album and I want this just for myself and I
me to listen to it, that's not my truth. I

(17:29):
actually want everybody to feel like this is their soundtrack
to their life. This is curating their thoughts and their feelings.
They are part of my community. We're a part of
each other's community, and all of us are growing and
healing and moving together and sharing something that they can
tap into anytime they want to. And it's funny because

(17:50):
you're here. This is exactly what inspired the album this space,
having this space filled with black and brown and you
just beautiful people across the diaspora here, seeing them smiling,
seeing the joy and their spirits and their hearts. During
the time where everybody thought the word world was ending,

(18:10):
I mean every day the pandemic. We created Wonderland West
during the pandemic. It was one of the most scary
things ever because I grew up my parents didn't own
a home. We were either in like a duplex or
you know, we live with my grandmother and they were
working class, like making ends meet, but live in check

(18:30):
to check. So when it was time for all of
us to contribute and figure out where we were going
to migrate with Wonderland, it was like, Okay, are we
ready to all? Am I ready to invest in our
next creative endeavor? Yes, I am, but we're in the
middle of a pandemic. What does that mean? And luckily
we knew the person who was trying to sell the space,

(18:55):
and they were just like, there's nobody else I want
to have this space. And it worked out and you, yeah,
but did. But it was also scary because a lot
of things were being canceled For me. My job is
to go out into the world and travel and you know,
try to heal people through music. But I couldn't do that.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
So you come from growing up a certain amount of insecurity. Yeah,
and it's you know, the successful career you've had. It's
hard to imagine that. But you know, as soon as
you start to feel that a little bit insecurity again,
I know from my own life, like all of a sudden, Yeah,
I mean, where was your mind that With all of that.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
I think the pandemic reminded me just how much music
means to me as a person, not as a career path,
not as you know, the artists that people know and
come to the concerts and see, but as a human
android having this Earth experience. I need music. I need
to create. During that time, not only were we working
on music, but I also wrote a book called The

(19:55):
Memory Librarian. I was just doing anything creative that would
would help me feel better, because to go from moving
around so much to just being still it was tough.
It was for be How was it for you?

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (20:11):
You know, art has this weird responsibility of trying to
document and explain the human experience a little bit more
and kind of just like unearth a little bit more
about what it means to be human. And I think
that so many of us were finding out a lot
more about what it meant to be human, like a
lot about the mortality of it. Even though we weren't

(20:33):
necessarily in or didn't consider ourselves vulnerable in that kind
of way. I think a lot of us looked at
ourselves as more vulnerable to death. And I think that
that was a very real consideration that we all kind
of had to deal with it differently. And I think
that human experience is a very unique one that kind

(20:57):
of felt like, Okay, so what is the response to that,
and how do you talk about this in healthy ways?
And how do you explore and understand more about it?
So I think that like part of what we were
trying to do was just face that in an honest way.
When you talk about like the affirmations, I mean that

(21:20):
was very intentional, because part of just confronting death is
kind of like being able to turn your head and
be like not today, and then you kind of are
like okay, so then what does that mean? And it's
kind of like, okay, live and so then how do
you live in a way that honors the life experience?

Speaker 2 (21:40):
And it's like, hey, okay, I'm here. I mean I'm
here now, you know.

Speaker 4 (21:45):
And you hear these stories about the Roaring twenties when
people are kind of like getting through that depressions. It's
so much going on, and they're like, and they've made
it through a pandemic, right, and you have the ss
guilt and so much of that goes into just just
your human experience, and it's those affirmations were like just

(22:06):
the small attempts to just undergird just the everyday thing
that's kind of like pushing you down and kind of
be like, all right, I'm gonna get back up. You know,
when Janelle says like I used to walk into the
room head down, you know, it's just that feeling of
I used to walk into the room head down and
being like that's I'm leaving that and now I'm onto

(22:28):
this next stage of myself.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
I think in the I think it was a privilege
to be still because during that time, I mean, as
we know, a lot of people were getting laid off
from work, a lot of people were losing their families
passing away. And as much as it was sad that
I couldn't go and be the artist that I wanted
to be out into the world, there were so many
other people who had it worse than us. In that stillness,

(22:54):
I said, well, what can I do. I know we
were in LA and we got the opportunity to feed
and give out over thirty five thousand meals throughout Won
to Lunch program, and so we did that for like
months and months and months. I think that connectivity back
to humanity really let us know what kind of affirmations

(23:16):
are people needed and what I needed as well. And
I think to answer your question, we were very intentional
about that, and I think Float really kicked it off.
Like I used to walk into the room head down
out on walk. Now if Float, I got an opportunity
in that stillness to deal with, you know, childhood trauma
that I had not dealt with because I was moving

(23:37):
around so much, I didn't It was like, Okay, you
know something's not right, but I don't have time to
deal with it. And in that discovering and peeling back
the layers of the rejection and abandonment that I felt
early on getting to the root of it, my spirit

(23:58):
started to get lighter because I knew. I was like, oh, okay,
so I can become better and more evolved as a
person now. And I feel so empowered now that I
know what was going on with me. And when you
heals as a person, all of that seeps into your
music and your art. My art is a reflection of
who I am, and I'm so thankful for that because

(24:22):
all I wanted to do was give more people affirmations,
because I know I wasn't only want. When I would
have conversations with people, they would say the same thing, like, man,
I have to let go of this. I have to
let go of that, you know, And so float was
that thing. It was like once you let go of
the heaviness that you've been carrying on your back that
you didn't have to carry, and you just find that

(24:44):
you're finding out like, oh, I have a way to
get all of this off of me now. It felt
like I wanted to celebrate as a new person, Like
I feel like I definitely, you know, shed a lot
of skin, turn a new leaf. And obviously it's a constant,
you know, journey. But once I tapped into it, I
got really inspired to write about it.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
After a quick break, will come act with more of
my conversation with Jenne Monet and Nate Wonder. We're back
with Jane mone and Nate Wonder. Once you put the
album out, how did you guys feel about the response
to it? You know, obviously we're very vulnerable, and I
feel like that was like a big point of conversation

(25:32):
around that. But was it Sometimes you just do things
feeling like that's the right thing to do, and then
it's like, oh shit, I got to talk about this,
Like how was the process of going out and talking
about the album and getting people's responses to the project?

Speaker 3 (25:47):
You know, I think it's a beautiful thing that when
people see themselves reflected, that was the most beautiful thing.
I think a lot of people coming up to me,
some of them whispering, some of them more vocal about it,
like thank you so much, you know, for sharing more
of who you are. There's this quote by Betha and
hardest and this As you know, people don't change, they

(26:07):
become more of who they are are. And what I
got an opportunity to do is become more of who
I am and write about it and write about it
with other people who were discovering more about who they
were and us having a safe space that was really important.
I think with an album called The Age of Pleasure,
there is no pleasure without safety. When we don't feel

(26:29):
safe and taken care of, you cannot be free in
the way that you move or express yourselves, at least for.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
Me, to your point earlier about unpacking a lot of
the traumas and stuff, just feeling safe within yourself too exactly.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
You know what I feel a lot more. How do
I put it? I did put it. I see it float.
I feel like I've floated, and anything that used to
bother me it doesn't touch me.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
To say.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
It's kind of scary and also really really awesome.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, how was it writing on this record with Janelle?
With given the just the way the songs were coming.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Out, it was a real blessing.

Speaker 4 (27:09):
Before we started working on the album, I remember I
told my management team that I really wanted to focus
this time, that I have right now on making music
for black women and black uh non binary folks. I
want to make music that makes them smile, like I

(27:30):
want to make music for them specifically, like I really
just want to be of service.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
To that community. And there's so many reasons why.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
But one reason is because when I go to the
grocery store as like a little side.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
I do it. I love it.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
This is great. I love this because I do not
like going.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Long.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
Used to have me in a grocery store way too long.
It was like I'm ready to.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
Go home, so anyway, But when I would go and
I see like black women at the grocery store smiling,
it just makes me feel a certain way. And sometimes
it'd be like when a certain song would come on,
it would be like you see them singing their song
and it's like, man, so good. And Janelle, of course,

(28:21):
has done so much work as a leading voice in
terms of activism, in terms of being on the right
side of history, in terms of speaking up for marginalized
people early to.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Always it's been herself.

Speaker 4 (28:40):
But I also was thinking about how much that can
weigh on a person, and I told Janelle, I said,
I really like for your next time I would really
love I would love to see you smile more like,
I would love to just see you smile, Like it
really would mean so much. I think that you smiling

(29:00):
is a really special thing. I love when I see
you smile, and I would love to see what that
energy is to like really put that into a space.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
And I hadn't really considered that. And I looked at
all my album covers and I was like, I'm really
not smiling.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Kind with you for a second.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Yeah, I was like, what what is going on? Like
from the Arcandroid to Electric Lady to Dirty Computer And
if you look at the cover for the Age of Pleasure,
I am writing this pool swimming topless and smiling.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
Yeah, you know, it's a layered idea, but I do
think that giving somebody something that makes them want to
smile is its own resistance. It's its own protest, it's
its own like giving people affirmations is its own version.

(29:58):
It's a certain form of work, it's a certain type
of healing.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
And so it's pleasure like, yeah, it's like I want
you to smile. It's like to your point then too,
it's like only I smile, Like I want top in
this pool, right, and smiled. Yeah, and it's like both
of those things are can be subversive.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
Can be absolutely you know what I mean absolutely it
is to make an album called The Age of Pleasure
in the middle of a pandemic is a subversive piece
of art because it is just kind of being like, no,
it's just like because there's been.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
You know, when you're dealing with so much trauma.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
From elections to it's just so much that happens, and
it feels like your energy when you wake up is
going to be stolen from you.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, it feels like, yeah, you're dolen. It's not yours,
not yours exactly.

Speaker 4 (30:50):
And so it was like a big like, no, you
cannot have all of my day.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, you cannot have all of my time.

Speaker 4 (30:59):
I'm going to take some time to enjoy life as
best as I can under whatever the circumstances that I
have are. I'm going to try my best to do
what I can to appreciate this moment, as simple as
it may be. And what I think that we were
finding in the writing process was that just having time

(31:22):
to hang out with your friends was the thing that
we needed the most. Just seeking time to appreciate each other,
to smile at each other, to laugh with each other,
to do like the simple stuff with each other. Felt like,
this is worth my time, way more than whatever that
other thing was that was driving me and decentering my joy.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's what that stuff does, right,
Like when you think about racism, when you think about sexism,
when you think about homophobia, all of it. It literally,
in addition to just being you know, pure evil work,
it distracts you from living your life because you spent
so much time fighting. And I definitely found myself and

(32:06):
I know I'm not the only one. There were so
many of my friends and people who were out marching.
You know, you have to understand George Floyd had been murdered.
It was so much. Breonna Taylor, it was so much.
And I was working with say her name and I
put out you know, protest music. It was so heavy, man,
And I was like, somebody has to do the work.
But I think balance is important, and what I was

(32:27):
realizing is I was not getting the balance that I needed.
And so once we made a decision to not center
white supremacy, to not center you know, all all of
the things that again come to distract and destroy and
stop us from just living our lives as humans having
this earth experience and be clear and stand on that.

(32:49):
That's when I feel like the songwriting got focused. And
with this project, I said, I want to make music
for that community, for that community of folks who suffer
time poverty, Like they don't have time. It's a great phrase,
it's a real thing in our community. People don't have
the time or the leisure time to just be you

(33:10):
know what I'm saying, to just be one with their
friends or their families, because you're spending so much time working,
you spending so much time fighting, and it's like when
do we say, Okay, well we're gonna carve out this
little space for us. And so I said, I want
to create music that we can all listen to take
with us whole with us. That is the balance and
everything that we're dealing with. And if the people that

(33:34):
I invite over are not dancing to these songs, if
they are not moving, if they're not trying to shazam,
if they're not asking who is that, then it's not working.
It's not like I want them to really really really
really love this music. Obviously we have to love it, right,
but it was so important that the community people we
were writing it for loved it. And that's how we

(33:58):
put together the Age of Pleasure. We had Nana Quabna
who worked on some of the music, who's also a DJ,
and our friends with everyday people. I don't know if
you know about everyday people parties not bet but like
I have to give a shout pleasure.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
I've been working hard.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
I have to give them a shout out because during
the pandemic, they couldn't find a place, you know, to
have their parties. And when I say parties, it's not
just like I mean, everybody's dancing and singing and having
a good time, but people are feeding each other at
the parties like their food vendors. It's the diaspora. It's
Pan Africanism from around the globe, from you know, Nigeria, Ghana,

(34:39):
the Caribbeans, Jamaica, Atlanta, New York, LA and Cape verd
like all in one place. It's just nothing like going
to their parties. And so when they asked they had
come by Wonderland, they were like, you know, they were
having a hard time getting the space, and we were like,
come here, shoot, let's figure it out. Because we're we're
going through it too, like not being able to see people,

(35:02):
like how can we do this? And and that was
a to know who was coming or for sure it
was very small because I would be a little Yeah
it was.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
We needed to know it was small and it was safe.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
Yeah, safe and small. And and that's where the music
was tested.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
First, hearing all of the backstory. I'm just gonna say
it because I feel like it's even in the music,
like a more human album. It's funny because as we're
moving into an age now more the future looks a
little bleaker in terms of technology. I feel like you
might have called that a little early. And it feels
like the project is away from computer and an arch

(35:41):
android and metropolis and like this tomorrow it feels like
Janelle the person you know, or it feels like to
me listening to it, like I even just feel myself
coming a lot more, just feeling more me, you know
what I mean. I know a lot of people who've
listened to the record, a lot of friends, a lot
of people there saying that like it makes them feel
a particular way as a living creature, you know.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
Yeah, you know, from the beginning, there was this conversation
around Android, writes, Yeah, and Cindy was always being was
always fighting to be perceived as a human and to
be respected as a human. So I guess there's a
certain truthfulness to being like, hey, you're human and kind

(36:25):
of being.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
Like yeah, finally, I mean that the definition of an
android And if you're listening and you don't know any
of my work, it's rooted around Cindy Mayweather, who represents
the other, and the other is a parallel, you know,
the android is a parallel to black folks to marginalize
folks that I want to amplify, the voices I want

(36:46):
to amplify, and the music I want to write. The
definition of an android is a robot developing human characteristic.
So I really think it tells such a continuation of
beautiful continuation of the story, and it's not finished. It's
very trippy to see because when I put out Metropolis,

(37:06):
we were reading The Singularity is near by ray kerr
wo and if you haven't read that, please do. But
it talks about this moment that we're having with AI,
and it talks about the singularity of like not being
able to differentiate AI recording a song by Janelle mone
or Janelle Monet really mapping out that voice. And it's

(37:26):
so interesting that it's happening now. And when I think
about the album, how I hate to say, we knew
that when this moment of integration happens, humans were going
to be frantic about it, as you can see right now,
Like it's a lot going on in my business when
it comes to using the likeness of an actor's face

(37:50):
without paying them, like AI is in that conversation heavily,
and people are afraid and they're scared, and I totally
get that. And I also think that there needs to
be more conversation and more laws and things rules to
really be agreed upon, because not all humans are bad
and not all AI is bad. So I think there
needs to be a real conversation around who's programming AI.

(38:15):
But the thing that I realized in knowing that the
Singularity was going to happen was that it's nothing like
that human and human connection. It was so important for
us to gather and have experiences that cannot be created
by AI. We can only have these the barbecue experiences,
you know, sharing food together, wrapping our arms around each other,

(38:39):
being there for each other and these times, These are
moments that humans have such a deep connection to and
can talk about in ways that AI can. And that
was my hope too, is to encourage more community, to
encourage people to be with each other like our stories
are all we have. It is our stories that will

(39:01):
set us apart and continue to make us believe in
humanity again.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Have you guys, you know, playing guitar on the steps,
barely finishing college, having to shot out some money to
do it, you guys found each other. Over those years,
you guys have amassed a body of work, all very
different from each other, genre less. As you said from
the beginning, money comes success time, new people, new relationships,
new opportunities. It's incredible to me that you guys have

(39:32):
managed to stay close.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
There you go, yeah, I don't think that happened.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Separate the legal entity of the Rolling Stones, you know,
it's like, yeah, I have no real responsibility to each other.
We do, but we do.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
Yeah, but that's very I'm happy that you brought that up.
It's so true. And when I look at some of
the collectives, and you know, we don't have to dig
into names, but even even some of the most iconic
collectives ended up not working with each other anymore, and
I just remember the time when they were and how
that felt, and how I felt when it wasn't the

(40:12):
case anymore, and I just it always was important to
me to nurture my relationships, like I invest in people,
you know, not because they're of course, everybody is very talented,
but I think they're really really great people who happen
to be very talented. And when you come from a
big family like me, I have forty nine first cousins,

(40:34):
so I was brought into a community. You know, that
runs through my blood, and it's loyalty and it's growth
and transparency and communication and all those things and respect.
As somebody who has ideas, obviously, I'll always have the
final say if we're working on something with what I
want to do, you know, on my music. But I

(40:55):
love listening. I love being able to hear how Nate's
mind is working, to hear how Chuck's mind is working
with since a Bueno is thinking none of Like, I
love to see how they interpret certain things and how
they sharpen my sword, you know, when it is time
to creatively fight for an idea. So I love that.

(41:16):
I love what this community has done not just for
me before the rest of the world.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
Questlove pulled us aside a few years ago and he
was like, listen, man, you guys have something really really special.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
But just so.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
You know, the most important thing you guys can do,
like just trust me on this. Just stay together. Just
stay together. And he went through his stories of like
what happened, Like all the things that happened to you
can change you. But just know that you guys have
something very special and it's worth protecting. Stay together. Don't

(41:56):
get distracted by whatever else comes. Just stay together. And
the other thing is that we have this credo, a
Wonderland credo that was written along time ago, like very
very early, and in there it discusses our responsibility to
each other and to our broader community, but specifically to

(42:22):
each other, how we need to take care of each other,
how we need to look after each other. Those basic
things are written into our creedle of how we understand
Wonderland at its foundation, it must at least be a
community or artists can be taken care of and of

(42:43):
course challenge each other around our ideas, but that we
feel at least safe to have our ideas.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
Yeah, that's how you make your best music again when
you feel safe with the people that you're with, Like
when you feel like you can just go there and
try new shit out, like fall in love with music,
fall in love with art, and I think that's what
we love at our core.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
First of all, you guys are living the I mean
that you guys found each other. It's hard individuals.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
Let me say it is hard work. It is not easy.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Is hard hard?

Speaker 3 (43:20):
Depending on what process you're in, it can be frustrating
and just like you can lose your confidence and second
guess yourself, or you could be having the best time
of your life. You wake back up and listen to
that demo or you wrote the night before, you're like, oh,
this ship is fire, like thank god, and you play
it for people outside you know, who were not a

(43:41):
part of the process, and you get that feedback. It
can be disappointing or it can be like, yes, when do.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
You start playing stuff? Is it usually like earlier in
the process, or is it like I try to.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Play as early as possible. People see in the studio
when I'm working on music.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
I gotta feel yeah, he's different. I don't know, but
but with age of Pleasure, I was more open, but
with all my other albums, I would be in there
engineering myself. I engineered myself a lot on this project too.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yeah, just because you wanted to be.

Speaker 4 (44:08):
Because when she goes in yes, like close it and
Janelle go in there and will engineer, and.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Then I'll call them back in like once I have
all my takes that I feel like are highlighted and good,
or I'll ask them to highlight in green, like which
ones you think are the best. But I'm always searching
for that feeling and sometimes I need to be alone
to get that feeling.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, we're gonna pause for another quick break and then
come back with more from Nate Wonder and Janelle Monee.
We're back with the rest of my conversation with Nate
Wonder and Janelle Monae. We were talking about the diaspora
earlier Beautiful that on the album DASPA was like really

(44:53):
represented from Sam Coudie Yes to uh to Sister Nancy.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Nancy Grace Jones, uh.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
K Unlimited, from Atlanta to Ghana to Nigeria to Jamaica
and so on.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
I mean, it's just we're so friends there.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
Yeah, some of the musicians talking.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah, what did those come.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
From from US, so French. The French seventy five is
us in New Orleans during Essence Fest, not this year,
but last year, and we were we had we had
woke up and we start talking about the night that
we had and it was my first It was like
my first time getting beads. And so if you've been
to New Orleans, you know what getting your beads means.

(45:43):
Like it's so fun and I was. It was so
liberating and just really maybe I know right. It involves
you going down on in the French quarters and if
you lift your shirt up, they would throw you some
beads and it's a part of the New Orleans culture.
Fun and it was friend because as somebody who's like,

(46:03):
oh my god, I'm famous, they can't do these things.
I'll end up. And nobody even really posted it until
like years later. No, no, no, nobody found it. Actually
nobody found that video. Maybe one person. No no, no, no,
not my beads. Oh I've done that on several occasions. No,
it's really the beads want too.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
I thought, okay, well that's awesome. It made me smile.
Remember I said this album, we are smiling this season
we are smiling. And with that being said, I wanted
to just have authentic conversations with my friends, and I
just asked them it was okay if I press record,
and it's just it was authentic because the people who

(46:45):
were there, they're really my friends. And so to have
these conversations with the people who are directly involved in
inspiring the songs and the songwritings. They were all in
the studio when we were writing them. They were the
first people that I think everybody in the interview, they
were some of the first people that heard the songs.
So when we did Float to Champagne, Shit, those were
the elliptic lover Like when we were writing those songs,

(47:08):
I always looked at how they moved. I always looked
at the body language. I always looked at like when
they would go play other artist songs, would they asked
to play this song again? Because I liked their taste
and I knew that they were like key in helping
us nurture the audience that we wanted.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
Like what we would example, something you might have tweaked it,
or so you're looking at your friends playing on they
might not quite groove the way you're expecting or so
what do you do?

Speaker 3 (47:36):
You just go back in and you know what, I
don't feel like we had a lot of those moments
with it.

Speaker 4 (47:41):
Only I know one song that that happened with and
we changed. It didn't come We were in the middle
of trying to figure the song out.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
It was hot, Okay, changed that one. Yeah a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
There's actually a David Bowie vocal that was supposed to
go on that.

Speaker 4 (47:58):
It was a quote from an interview that he had
done that right after right after Janelle says, uh, they
say I look better than David Bowie in the moon
Age Dream, there's.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
This quote line.

Speaker 4 (48:09):
I love that line because I think Edward had taken
us to the movies to see Mooney's Daydream because he
knew Janelle was a huge fan.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
I oh, you took everybody.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
I'm sorry, you took everybody to see the David boy
film Mooney's day Dream.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
You said, yeah, because we had just so when I
when we wrote the Age of Pleasure. Right before that,
I just filmed The Glass Onion and we were in
Greece and Serbia, and I was having Nate send me
music there because I was like, when I get back,
I'm writing this album. Yeah, I'm writing this album. I'm

(48:50):
so inspired. I know I'm clear on where I am,
who I am, and what I.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Need to do.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
And so he sent me all the music of some
of the musical beds and I picked what I loved
and liked. As soon as I got back, I was
in the studio.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
It's poetic that you're working on the glass onion and
you're clear about.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
Clear to it's like pull back the layer. Yeah, so
David boy quote it says, I think it's terribly dangerous
for an artist to fulfill other people's expectations. If you
feel safe in the area you're working in, you're not
working in the right area. Always go a little further

(49:30):
into the water. Then you feel you're capable of being in.
Go a little bit out of your own depth, and
when you don't feel that your feet are quite touching
the bottom, you're just about in the right place to
do something exciting.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
So that was the end of that was the quote
that was on the in the record.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
We should put that back in time.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
But of course, like when you're at a party, you
may not want to go into the like.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
Yeah, it was just like.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Appreciate I.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
Don't know if you've seen it, but it's really incredible.
It was amazing because this is somebody who, like myself,
you know, is a world builder, and somebody who believed
like ZIGGI starred Us and the Spiders from Mars gave
me the courage to do Cindy Mayweather in Metropolis and
the Arc Android and to create these versions of ourselves,

(50:29):
you know, these thousand versions of myself and we're all fine.
That's if you don't know. That's from Phenomenal on the
Age of Pleasure.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Sorry.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
So so to be able to watch him say, I
know that I could be Ziggy Starters for the rest
of my life or I can become more of who
I am and give you that and not be afraid,
you know, to break it down and rebuild and reimagine
who I can be. So that really also helped inspire
me as well.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Did you ever get a chance to meet him?

Speaker 3 (51:00):
I feel like I did. I feel like our spirits
absolutely met each other. I know that he knew who
I was because I did a cover of heroes and
his wife Emon told me and he had to clear
it and his wife told me that he really he
really loved me, And I was like Oh, I wish
I could have told him how much I really loved him,
but I think he knows it. They aren'tware.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Yeah, did you putty naturally fall into I mean, twenty nineteen,
you're feeling like you want to start writing for women,
people coloring non binary folk. Was it easy to slide
into that mentality? Was it easy to like?

Speaker 4 (51:37):
I felt compelled and again, and when I feel compelled,
I'm like, man, I'm doing it.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Was it a messy start? Did it feel always right
or natural?

Speaker 3 (51:46):
Fill Myself playlist?

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Oh yeah, that really encouraged. Yeah, definitely mean both of us.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
Had the same thought. So we were listening to Spotify.
We had an opportunity to listen to a lot of music.
I start back working out, and there were a lot
of black women on this playlist that were just like
sounding extra liberated and super tapped into their will of
honesty and truth and sensuality and sexuality and grit and

(52:13):
softness and hardness. Like I loved hearing that all on
one playlist, and it encouraged me to tap into my
many different sides. And I think Nate would see me
listening to Filling Myself playlists around the studio and as
I was working out, and it was like, I've never remembered.
And that's the beautiful thing with playlists. You can really

(52:35):
curate your own world on your own soundtrack. And when
I felt that vibe, I was like, I want more
of this, and I want the people that are listening
to this who are feeling like they have not been
able to walk in their greatness as black women, as
non binary folks, as marginalized people. They haven't been able
to really own all of them. I want to lead

(52:58):
by example and I want I want to highlight them.
I want and highlight them by creating music that speaks
to their hearts.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Yeah. Yeah, I got two daughters and I don't want
them to feel ashamed of pleasure or whatever, right, like
as they get older or not. And it's like, yeah,
but society for so you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (53:18):
Yeah, And it's still that it's still a lot of
work to be done in that area. But you know,
one of the things I noted was that playlist. Like
when you go to like a rap Caviar or the
other like Big hip Hop, the biggest hip hop playlist.
Sometimes they'll even have like a woman on the cover,

(53:39):
But then you go through the actual playlist. It literally,
out of one hundred songs, it might be like three
songs by women, and it really I just took so
much issue with it.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Yeah, I was just like this is wild.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
Yeah, like literally they'll put Megan thee Stallion on the
cover of it and not to go like down thirty
songs to get to her song.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
It's like, this is crazy, this is wold.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
And that was another reason why we wanted to make
sure that, you know, black women were repers ended on
this project generationally, from Dochi to you know, the King
of Jamaica, Grace Jones.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Grace's albums really come on, yes, let me.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
Tell you she. I spent seventy two hours with Grace Jones.
That's how we got her on the album.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
I was going to get it, don't I'm still.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
Like just bowing down to her. Seventy two hours with
her hour is where I was like, oh.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
My god, come together. What So I went.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
I went to her at the Hollywood Bowl and I
ended up she was somehow it's like her light, one
of her last songs, and they were calling people on stage,
and of course I'm gonna jump on stage. And if
you look online if you look online, you will see
there's a video of me running through Grace Jones' legs,
her smacking my ass us, dancing like just being the

(55:03):
free spirits that we are. And I had met her
years back, but we didn't really get to connect. And
she did call me. She called me years back, and
I was so shocked. I was like, how does she
even get my number? And she just called me and
she told me she loved me, and I was just like,
I love you. But we never got to connect again
after that. I think maybe she changed her number, you know,

(55:24):
maybe she just went to another planet for the springtime.
Who knows, it's Grace Jones. And so when she came
this time though, we went backstage and we really connected
and she she was just like hugging me. I was
hugging her, and she was just saying, you know, I'm
in town for a few days. She invited me to
her hotel where they had like a small little gathering

(55:44):
to celebrate her incredible performance live. If you ever get
a chance, go see her. She nobody, nobody touches her.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
I regret not going. I was going to go to that.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
Always, you just always say yes. And so that night
When we went back to her hotel, I was like,
you know, I you know, I had to leave, and
I just said, I'm just gonna invite her to want
to land what she can just say no, and if
she says no, I'll be like yes. Grace Jones told
me no, Yes, so great, and so I said, listen,

(56:16):
I have to leave, but I don't know you know
what your schedule is tomorrow, but I would love to
have you for lunch at Wonderland at our studio. And
she was like, is there a pool there? And I
was like, indeed, there is a pool. And then she
was like, okay, I will call you. I'm gonna come,
and I just I was like okay, and I was like,
she says this to everybody, I'm sure because she doesn't

(56:36):
want to hurt anybody's feelings. And she called. She had
she had her assistant text and asked if it was
a heated pool if they because she swims every day
is her exercise? And I asked them, well, what does
she drink? What does she Like like, I'm scrambling, I'm like,
how am I going to host Grace Jones? Everybody? We
need to have a meeting, right go to the grocery store.

(56:59):
What are we doing? And he sends me this list,
Like her wine list is immaculate, her champagne list is immaculate.
And so she came over and we really had lunch
and we really got in this pool. She took her
top off just I mean, I know, we're talking a
lot about all of the toplessness, which is really great because,

(57:19):
as we know, we live in a world where there's
a double standard. Yeah, you know where the liberation that
Grace has been able to do did not come with
open arms, you know, it came with a lot of scrutiny.
This is somebody who was raised under a pastor, you know,
who was a bishop and in a very conservative community.
And for her to say I'm gonna live my motherfucking

(57:40):
life and to show us that, like that was all
I needed to see and hear, and she really by
being her and by hanging out with her and her
encouraging me to be me, and sitting in the studio
listening to the songs, like her getting up dancing and
moving and telling us which one she loved and what,
like her hearing the instruments and talking about that like

(58:03):
she is a musical genius. It was all the affirmation
I needed.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
First of all, taking off for top in your pool
is a real legendary what an honor, you know what
I mean, you curated this.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
It's just a typical Tuesday for her.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Yeah. But then so then you pull in the studio
when she's listening.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
You asked her to Yeah. I was like, I told her,
I said, I would love to get you, you know,
on our project. She was like, okay, well where is it?
And I was like, well, since you asked, there's a
studio right in here, and so we went in there.
And but I will say recording Grace Jones because I
had to wrangle her in it is like having the
most beautiful panther in the studio that then turns into

(58:43):
a tiger that then turns into like a bird with
the biggest wings that will flap around and you just
you cannot contain that energy. You just have to have
everything on record and get what you can. Wow, you
know what I'm saying. You can't really tell her what
to do. But even in the moments where I was like, Okay,
can you do more of this or do more of that,

(59:04):
or no, say it like this or talk French, because
she speaks French fluently, and that's what we and that
was the thing that made it. I said, Oh, that's
the sexy ship that I want on this project, because
I don't think we've really gotten a chance to hear
her in that way. And we've actually recorded more, like
I have at least two hours.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Of recording with Grace job definitely.

Speaker 4 (59:22):
And.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
I really, I really really want to. She's working on
her album, which is going to also be incredible. She
played us her album like I got to hear Grace
Jones's album. We did. It's really beautiful.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Wow, that's incredible. Well man, you got I mean, the
fact that you went as far as to pull Grace
Jones in the studio for your album. Nothing we can
say but thank you. There's nothing we could say but
thank you and congratulations on not just the Grammy, but
congratulations for that, but just what I've seen it do

(59:55):
to people's spirits over the last eight months.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
You know, that's all we want. It's incredible, that's all
we want. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Can I ask her not to put you on the
spot now? I love We're far enough from heaven.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
Oh my god, you are a deep Cotton fan.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
I love Deep Cotton. Oh, I don't know where the
love my copy of.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
I love this you are. I knew I liked you,
but now I love you. That's what I love this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
This is my ship, this song is I feel like
I don't even I don't know how to explain my
love of this.

Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
So good, it's really good. From heaving. Now we can
freak out. So well done it. It's the lorndessakout. You
can join it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
Bang bang.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Wants breaking out.

Speaker 4 (01:00:53):
There's a killer and that is marching and all bang
bang this does and you can see it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
As well.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
Kissed the most laughing to your dash.

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
Yeah, my god, take up friend, that's man.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Didn't tell some stories in here?

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
And bo can cook?

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Can clean?

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Who will pay the fence?

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Who can cook and clean?

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Who will pay the fence? Who can cook?

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
Who clean the fence?

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Fire nothing man, But now we can break out. Yeah
we fire nothing happening.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Now we can break out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
Yeah we fire nothing man.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Now we're gonna freak out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah we're fire nothing having Now we.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Can break out, freak out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
That's so crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
You have excellent tastes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
Like when I heard their song, Actually, when Nate was
saying like he met me performing on the library steps
with the guitar. I was heavily just like on some
acoustic big afro I guess you would say, neo soul vibes.
And when I heard their music, it changed my whole life.
It changed the way I saw us because I hadn't

(01:02:14):
seen I mean with the exception of like Andre, because NARLS.
Barkley wasn't even around at that time, but with the
exception of like the Love Below and what Andre was
doing and you know, some some some indie artists in Atlanta,
nobody was stretching and it's sounding good like it was
either too alternative for me to get to, you know,
to get into, and there was no melody, there was

(01:02:37):
no soul. But when I heard their stuff, I was
like it was up temp. There were there were like
up tempo records that sounded like Japanese funk. I don't know,
that's the best way to describe it. And all I
knew was like, I want to make music like that,
and so that I really have to credit deep Cott
for why I like up tempo songs and why I

(01:02:57):
make up tempo music and stretch.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
When it comes to genre textas are incredible. No one really,
no one really plays like acoustic like that, like a
up loud. It sounds like some Frank Black like the
weird bizarre phrase.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
Is an incredible writer imminator, Like there.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Their partnership we actually had. It's crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:03:19):
We actually are finishing our album right now. We actually
just got the album cover done for it and everything.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
Yeah coming out what dream is coming true?

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
Yeah, I love that song because I love the line
who can cook, who can clean?

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Who will paint the fence?

Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
I mean, there's so many other things about the song
that are great, but also who can cook, who can clean?

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
Who will paint the fence?

Speaker 4 (01:03:42):
Because it takes like this idea of like taking over
the mansion and tell some stories and there and all
that kind of stuff, which is cool idea, right, but
then like it's the responsibilities that you have to each.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Other, like who's who can cook, who can clean? Who
will paint?

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
Like who's doing the real work that it takes to
like stay alive. So we can, you know, take over
this match and tell some stories.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
I love it. Thanks so much, guys, Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Creative Thanks likewise, this is beautiful, incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Thanks to Jennell Monee and Nate wonder for the invite
to Wonderland to chat about her latest album, The Age
of Pleasure. You can hear it, along with our other
favorite songs of Jennemne's and Nate Wonders on a playlist
at broken record podcast dot com. Subscribe to our YouTube
channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, where
you can find all of our new episodes. You can

(01:04:36):
follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is
produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from
Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tollinay.
Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to
Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers

(01:04:58):
bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety nine
a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions.
And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,
and review us on your podcast. That are the Musics
Back in the Beats? I'm justin Richmond, h