April 15, 2025 • 50 mins
How much can you believe from the baseball being played in April?
Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci recap The Masters with the 'relief' from Rory McIlroy to finally win the tournament. Joe saw the same relief from the Cubs when they won the World Series, so we look at where Kris Bryant, Anthony Rizzo and Kyle Schwarber are now.
Tom highlights the starts of the Rockies, the Marlins, and the Padres....all with unique stories to tell in April. Plus, Joe talks about managers handling the media and how he spoke at press conferences.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey there and welcome back to the Book of Joe
Podcast with Me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe.
After last week's episode in which we previewed the Masters,
(00:28):
I got to get your quick take on what just
happened down in Augusta, Georgia with Rory McElroy riding the
roller coaster to the Green Jacket.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
First of aft ad mid I did pick Justin Thomas.
He had a rough time, started out okay and then
really faded. Regarding the conclusion going into that last day,
I truly believe these chambau is going to catch him,
just based on history, how McElroy where recently has responded
to those moments and how the Chambeau has so I
really thought, and it says started out with the double bogie,
(00:58):
I thought, here we go. But I give him credit, man,
he hung in there really well. And the guy's like
super to he was just he just had this albatross
attached to his neck for a couple of years regarding
this and it really truly truly has I think prevented
and now that's gone and you know, even at the
end of the tournament when he got to his knees
and just buried his face in the in the green,
(01:22):
I mean you could see what was relief was a
relief more than joy, I don't know, but it was
very interesting.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Quite frankly, I can't.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I'm a big mclroy fan, you know, I respect his abilities.
But I was happy for him because to have not
won that really, I think could have been somewhat devastating
and could have carried over into so many different parts
of his life. That's what I was saying. So I
was happy that it occurred. I'm glad I d Chambeau
is gonna win another one. There's no doubt. I really
(01:49):
believe he's that good, and I love his personality and
the way he attacks the day in the game. We
need more of that in all of our sports. But anyway,
I was happy he won because now the guy can
breathe and live again.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
One hundred percent agree with you, Joe, That's what I saw.
I saw a relief more than joy on that eighteenth
green there, and you'd hate to think about what would
happen if he didn't close that out after it was
in his hands a couple of times. But give him
a ton of credit. I mean, you know how hard
it is Joe and sports to just hang in there
and come back immediately from adversity. You know, It's one
(02:22):
thing to have a bad day and come back the
next day and reset everything. But he had to do
that on the fly on several different shots and holes,
you know, including a putt to win the Masters that
he missed on the seventy second hole. So I give
him a ton of credit. With all the scar tissue
that guy has to somehow get through that. I thought
it was a courageous performance, if you will, in terms
(02:46):
of athleticism, in terms of sticking through tough times. And
you know what that's like, Joe, for a player to
kind of in any sport, especially when you've had so
many disappointments and it means so much to you to
find a resolve to fight through it.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Kind of a Cubs moment there, I though.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
That's what I was thinking about too, And like you're
talking about his game itself and the comeback whatever, But God,
he has such an advantage just from the way he
drives a golf ball.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I mean, it makes the course shorter.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It's like he is a starter and a middle relief
pitcher to get closer to the to the green, which then,
of course for the people that do player don't play,
you know, those shorter iron shots lot easier to control,
command and control, So that part of it is truly
incredible to watch. I mean, every swing that he takes
with his driver is so confident, and then the other shots,
(03:33):
you know, he can be wonderful but sometimes less confident.
So that's that's part of his game. He just overpowered.
We were talking years ago, several years ago about d
Chambeau overpowering when he went I can remember the tournament,
but all of a sudden he came to this brute
strength and his ability to drive the ball farther than
anybody else, and how that was going to lead to
a tournament after tournament victory. But you play it and
(03:56):
I play, you know how much the other part of
the game is so vital and success. But McElroy's ability
to drive the golf ball gosh, I mean, that really
provides an advantage, especially when the course is playing as
long as that one does. But again that's just going
around in about just give him credit. But he's truly
a rare talent and to watch the ball. Watch that
(04:16):
swing on the driver is really incredible to watch.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I'm glad you brought up the Cubs because this is
the tenth year anniversary of your first year right with
the Chicago Cubs, and you inherited that group of young players,
brought him to the finish line the next year in
twenty sixteen. Yep, and one of your young players back
then Rookie of the Year in twenty fifteen MVP. In
twenty sixteen, Chris Bryant in the news again, unfortunately for
(04:41):
wrong reasons. Health wise, he went on the injured list
with Lombard degenerative disease, which sounds really bad. Basically, his
back has been killing him and you know, he saw
doctor Watkins out in LA and he has to shut
it down. The Rockies are hoping it's not a long
term issue. But ever since he signed his contract with
the Rockies, which is seven years, one hundred and eighty
(05:03):
two million dollars, Chris has had a hard time staying
on the field. He's played just one hundred and seventy
games in the fourth seasons since he signed with the Rockies.
And when he has been on the field, he let's
face it, he has not been very good. Two forty
four batting average, three seventy slug and even with Corus
Field as your home field, his adjusted ops is eighty four,
(05:24):
whereas one hundred average. Joe, you saw this guy in
his prime, which was when he first got to the
big leagues.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
He slugged five oh eight with the Cubs, thirty nine
home runs in his MVP season, ran like the wind
on the bases, played multiple positions. I want to start
by asking you this, Joe, and you had Chris Bryant
in fifteen and sixteen. What did the future look like
to you watching Chris Bryant play?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, it was virtually unlimited, right, because you just described them.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Will He's just he was.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
He is a complete baseball player. He did everything well,
played multiple positions, had a fine arm, really ran well
and ran the basis as good as anybody in baseball
at that particular time, had big pop, hit home runs
to all parts of the field, and could keep a
batting average alive. Even because he ran so well, he
had this tendency sometimes to like get his butt out
(06:17):
and just flick a little ground ball, make the short
stop move to his right. He beat it out great teammate,
good guy. I mean, I really enjoyed my conversations with him.
There was nothing to not like about KB. And to
see the decline more recently, it's it's been really hard
to watch. I guess the back has been bothering. I
understand that. You know, with that, the way his swing
(06:39):
is broken down, and inability to kind of like to
maintain like a posture in his in his swing and
constantly like leaning over to reach at pitches probably had
something to do with it. The back had something to
do with all of that, and that's where the decline
really showed up. You're right going to cors My god.
I mean when he first came up with the Cubs
is one of probably his greatest strengths was driving the
(07:00):
ball to right center field and with power. It was
how he came out of University of San Diego. THEO
told me that from the beginning, and of course there
it was, and then it started to become more pol oriented,
and I think, just like I said, he started leaning
over a little bit and wasn't able to let the
ball get to him and drive it to the other
side of the field.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
So there's a lot been going on. I had all
kinds of.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Conversations with KB and he's one of my all time faves.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Love to see this somehow rectifyself.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
But when you talk about degenerative stuff, obviously that's not
normally going to get better. So we'll see it all
plays out. But I want people to know this is
a really good guy. Like him a lot and wasn't
just a great athlet He was a really good baseball player.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, you know, I second all that too. I mean,
I feel for him. You know, it's not for lack
of effort. And you know when you have these physical injuries,
and he's had a variety of them. It has not
just been the back. He's had plant dark FASTI, He's
had leg issues, won't. It just seems like he's not
been able to stay healthy through any length of time.
And you mentioned THEO seeing him, you know, in college
(08:06):
and drafting him number two pick in the draft that year.
The Rockies thought for sure the Cubs were going to
take John Gray, and they thought they were going to
get Chris Bryant. It's one of the reasons why they
signed him as a free agent. Like, you know, they
missed out on Chris Bryant as an amateur when they
really were surprised the Cubs went with Brian, But I
remember THEO saying he sat down with him, interviewed him himself,
(08:28):
and of course you could see the skills and the
home run power. You talked about Joe, but THEO was
so impressed with him just from a character side of it, saying,
this is the kind of guy you want as a
franchise player, and he did turn out to be that
kind of player. It was a great evaluation. Not to
say that John Gray hasn't had a really good career,
He's had his own issues with health. But Chris Bryant,
(08:49):
it's just it's kind of sad because I do think
you were looking at a guy who came out of
the shoot there as the Rookie of the Year, MVP
World Series champion, looked like he was going to be
a repeat All Star every year for you know, a
decade or more, And now you're around Joe at some
of your guys there, and you know, Hovey Baiaz has
kind of followed that same arc. You know, he's had injuries.
(09:11):
He signed the big contract with Detroit and you know,
six years, one hundred and forty million, he's hit two
twenty two with the Tigers and a three forty eight slug. Now,
I think the game kind of caught up with Hobby Bias.
He wasn't able to make adjustments to seeing all those
breaking balls and really stay off pitches out of the zone.
And you know, I think the Ross skills are still
(09:34):
there with Hobby Bias.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
He still can play a good shortstop, but the lack
of plate discipline just has really held him back.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I mean, he's a classic example of analytics catching up
to him and him not making the adjustment.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
He's always been a wild swinger.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
The first time I saw him in Puerto Rico, I
food down there when I got the job. Eddie Perez
was the manager, and I sat with Eddie before the
game finally got to meet Hobby.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
I was just trying to.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I went there to really want to get to know him.
Heard all about it him this wonderful athletic ability, etc.
And the night I saw him, I made some great
base running plays, great play to his left. He was
playing some second base, which I still believe is his
best position, and I saw the wild swing more. Let's
turn the clock forward right now, when we had him
(10:20):
with the Cubbies. You know, he was surrounded by a
pretty good group, a very good group, and I just
believe he was more able to, or more willing to,
or whatever you want to call it, to use the
other side of the field, which I still believe is
his friend. I say that right center is your friend,
that's your buddy. If you could just stay there, he's
(10:40):
still gonna have a big swing. It's really hard to
get him to knock that down to something smaller than
but at least it's a mental adjustment more than it
is a physical adjustment for him. That's the first part
about it. Second part more recently, actually talked to Scotti Harris.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Last year I think was last year.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, and I said, this might sound nuts, but I
would really consider him becoming a swingitter. Mari Wills did
that later in his life. Mariy Wills, I don't think
started switch hitting to his letter later twenties, if.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
I remember correctly reading about it.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
If you ever watched Tobby and batting practices, screwing around
hitting left handed, wow, you wouldn't even know. If you
walked up there and saw him doing that, you would
think he was a left handed hitter. If it's not
working and we're not seeing any kind of adjustments, it's
primarily there's two things.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
That's chased with.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
The fastball elevated and it's chased with the breaking ball
down down in a way. So just give him a
different seat, like let him watch the movie from the
left side with the right he coming at him, and
see if there's anything that goes with that.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I still think it was worth.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
It's a worthy try to do something like that, because
he's that talented. Right now, he's hitting over I think
right around three hundred. He's doing a little bit better.
I follow him all the time. I follow KB box
score wise all the time. But Hobby seems to be
making some in roads right now. And again I haven't
watched enough to know that, but I've always stopped for him.
(12:04):
It might be interesting to put him on both sides
of the plan and see if that just perks him up,
and see what that would do for him now and
in his career.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
A fascinating idea like the just the thought of giving
it a try, right why not? And I have seen
him swing the bat left handed is pretty darn impressive.
A couple other guys from your Cubby's team. You know,
Anthony Rizzo, of course, couldn't get a job, couldn't find
a job this offseason. Four years with the Yankees, he
had two thirty four, and injuries caught up with him,
(12:32):
especially it seemed like he never really came back from
the concussion. And then Kyle Schwarber. You know, you look
back at the core of that team and to me,
the one guy who who really actually improved it got
better as he's aging here through his thirties is Kyle Schwarber.
I mean, he he has slugged four ninety three with
the Phillies. That's higher than it was before. And he's
(12:53):
scheduled to hit free agency at the end of the season.
And you know, he's a steady run producer who still
takes his walk and does a ton of damage from
the left side. So give me your quick takes now
as we're catching up with your former cubbies here on
Riz and Schwartz.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah, well, Riz obviously the big difference with him.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
He's a little bit older, and he's had a lot
of issues himself and particularly his back, and the concussion
was huge, no doubt about it, but his back has
always been problematic. Every year during the season he'd have
to sit out a couple of days, maybe.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
A week, in order to get the back back on track.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So there's always these little nick spumps and bruises that
eventually wear he done. He's a big guy. Riz is
not little. Brizz is a big guy. He is a
really good baseball player. He's got as good of a
baseball IQ as anybody I've ever had. He's almost like
he was born in Puerto Rico. His baseball IQ is
that good. Good teammate, does a lot of things really
(13:49):
well in the field, really creative. He and I did
all those little creative things with the bunt when I
had him post up between the mound on first baseline,
so that the was the Brewers primarily would bunt right
to and we would be turning double plays.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
But he has fear spearlessness about getting in there.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
A lot of guys wouldn't even think about doing stuff
like that. But that was he and I talking about things.
We would talk about all these different little nuances on
defense to just try to mess with the other team.
Part of it was because of Leicester Johnny not being
able to throw over to first base, so just trying
to become creative. Rizzo has that kind of an IQ.
Swarve's on the other hand, I think he has gradually
(14:28):
steadily gotten better. And I saw him the other day
was at Sale that he hit the bomb against Sale.
I think he hit a ball off the wall and
the ball over the wall against him. He's gotten better
against left these is what I'm saying. And the thing
that really I don't think will abandon him is is
a command of the strike so and that's really a
separator for Schwarves. His command, he doesn't let one at
(14:48):
bat bleed into the next one. He could strike off five, six,
seven times in a rows, not going to impact his confidence.
He goes up there with the same kind of game plan.
So I think that's going to continue. I think it's
a good bet. I don't even know how old is
he Not twenty eight, twenty nine, thirties.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
He's thirty thirty one.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Okay, So the.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Free agency numbers got into the years isn't going to
be as great. But I still think because of his
strength level and his command of the strike zone, and
the fact that he's gotten better against left handed pitching,
it's still.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Going to be He's still going to be attractive.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, he just turned thirty two, by the way, And yeah,
you made a great point about against left handed pitching.
I mean, I don't know if I remember a situation
where a guy has improved this much to this deep
into his career. And give credit to Kevin Long, the
Philadelphia Phillies hitting coach ever since he got there, and
obviously Kevin had him in Washington as well briefly. But
(15:40):
you know, Kevin makes sure and Kevin's left handed himself,
but say, for instance, he's giving him soft toss, Kevin
will make sure that he does it from an angle
where the ball is coming from behind his back the
way it would from a left handed pitcher on the
first pace side of the rubber. When he sets up
the pitching machine, he makes sure that is angled from
a left hander's point of view. So Kyle's seeing over
(16:02):
and over and over again that ball coming at him
or away from him, and starting at him and moving
away from him. And last year he hit three hundred
against lefties, and he's off to a terrific start this
year against lefties.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
He's not missing his pitch when he sees his pitch,
he's not missing it against the lefties.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah. I mean, he's gonna have a great market as
a free agent, obviously because of age and maybe not length.
But there's a whole lot of baseball left in Kyle Schwarber, Joe,
we're going to take a quick break. There's some teams
that I need to talk to you about that are
off to you. Just starts that really caught my attention.
The Padres, the Rockies, and the Marlins. Yeah, the Marlins,
(16:38):
they're all doing really, really interesting things, and we'll.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Talk about that right after this on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. We've talked about
Chris Bryant and things have well, not been going real
well for the Colorado Rockies. Joe off to a really
tough start. Three and twelve. They've been outscored. This is
hard to believe, eighty four to forty, so that the
run differential is greater than the amount of runs that
they've scored. I mean, you just don't see this in
(17:21):
the major leagues. The team batting average is two eighteen.
They went thirty two consecutive innings without scoring a run
against the Padres and the Dodgers before they finally get
on the board, and poor Buddy Black, our good friend,
Bud Black, manager of the Colorado Rockies. You know, he
lives in San Diego in the offseason. He figures he'll
(17:42):
stay at home during the series at Dodger Stadium and
take the train up to Dodger Stadium for the game.
So he's on the station waiting for the train to
go to Union Station in La. It's in the morning
on Monday, and there's an announcement that there is well,
he felt it there was an earthquake and the train.
They couldn't run the trains because that they make sure
the tracks had not been compromised from the earthquake. So
(18:04):
to get to the ballpark you at the grab a
ride share. It cost him two hundred bucks to get
the Dodge Stadium from San Diego. Stay hot, Buddy Black.
But man, they listen, it's a tough division. There are
no breaks in that division. Right, It's a very maybe
the deepest division in baseball. But the Rockies just can't
seem to get it right. And after a couple of
(18:25):
one hundred lost seasons, Joe, this may be the worst
of all the way it's starting out.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, I've been watching that.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
I've listened to Buddy Black Pepe Pepe Negro, so I
refer to him Pepe and I stay in touch. I
haven't yet this year, but yeah, it's been. It has
been tough to watch and you're just hit on it.
I mean, the discrepancy in the batting, the hitting, the power,
whatever you want to call it. Here in Colorado, it's
a different world. You're you're playing on the moon. You know,
(18:52):
the zero's gravity when you're playing in that ballpark. I
just haven't watched them enough. I probably need to just
tune them in a little bit more to see what
I actually think about, you know, the group and how
they're performing and fundamentally and all that kind of stuff.
I just don't know, but it is. It's incongruent. I mean,
I've played, I managed in Midland, Texas, and Midland is
(19:12):
kind of like that really windy ballflies West Texas.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Dry air. It's not unlike playing in Colorado.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And the one thing about that teams that I had
down there and the other ones that even roven in
and out of we would always hit well at home.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
My concern was always on the road.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Then we go to Beaumont, Texas, you go to Shreveport,
you go to Little Rock, you go to Tulsa, San Antonio, Boumont,
all these places was completely different version of baseball. So
the last couple of days before we would leave town,
I would insist on in batting practice line drives and
hard ground balls and if you hit the ball on
top of the screen or the net at all and
(19:51):
VP you're out next hitter, Just to try to really
emphasize thing on the line and try not to lift
the ball on that because I know that's pretty much
what the world's all about right now, getting the ball
in their etc. So again, I don't know enough philosophically
about what they're doing there. I don't know anything about
what they're doing there, but to not be offensive, i'd
(20:13):
be and play in that market right there. It just
doesn't make any sense. I played, actually played myself in
Boulder a couple of summers, and I even hit for
power up there.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I was like crazy. So it's like.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
I'd love to be, you know, fly on the wall
just or just go scout them for a week and
come back with a better idea of what I think.
But it just doesn't make any sense even I mean,
these are still big League ballplayers. It doesn't make any
sense that there'd be such a two eighteen team batting
average in that and that zero gravity. Maybe the weather's
(20:44):
been cold. I don't know, but I have to believe
they're going to get better than that.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, As you know, one of the difficulties the Rockies face,
and there are many when you play at altitude, is
adjusting to not playing at altitude. And you know, the
balls just don't break as much at course field at
altitude as they do on the roads, so they're constantly
adjusting to seeing. Especially to me, it's more about breaking
(21:09):
pitches and seeing them break more when they go on
the road. So that's what happened. This was obviously a
small sample, but they just came off a long homestand
and they go to San Diego. Now you're on the
road and you're seeing that pitching staff and everything looks
like it's extremely difficult to hit because you're always going
back and forth. It's never the same break on a
(21:29):
pitch that you're looking at. So I've always thought, Joe,
it's so hard to put a winning team together in
Colorado because the game is just played so differently in
that ballpark. And that's not going to change. All these
years the Rockies management, no matter who it is, they
still haven't figured out what wins in Colorado. I don't
(21:49):
think they ever will.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
But part of it is, I mean, if you look
at the ballpark, it so if they built it bigger,
the gaps are huge, huge.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I mean, the ball stays in there forever.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
And so for me, it's always been about don't necessarily
change your game, take advantage of that. I mean, when
you're in a ball park like that, or played in Middland,
Texas or Albuquerque, all these places, you're almost playing analytically.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Never wanted to.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Make outs on the basis because you never wanted to
subtract a runner before that two or three run home run.
That was always a concern. And I had some guys
that could run, but I turned them loose. A Devon White,
I had Mark Macklamore, Gray Key, had a lot of
guys that could really go. I'd let him go because
I knew that when it came to development, they're eventually
going to play more at sea level and their speed
(22:30):
is going to be a part of the game. So
I just again i'd philosophically, I don't know, but I
do know that I would really want to get some
ground ball pitchers in that ballpark, and of course guys
that misbats, that's what you're looking for.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
From the mound. You got to play defense there.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
You gotta have guys in the middle that could really
run it down and don't give extra outs. You have
a tendency to play deeper than there's a lot of
more balls falling in front of guys there.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
But as a.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Hitter, you have all this room to put the ball down.
So again, are you just trying to hit home runs?
Take advantage with the ball in the air, go with
the thought de ju and that's just too back leg
and put the ball in the air. Of that kind
of stuff. So it's a there is a different game.
There's a it's a different game needs to be discussed.
That's probably been discussed at nauseum. But for me playing
(23:15):
it in that situation like that, especially how big the
ballpark is, I really would almost like to see a
whitey version there and just like disregard which you think
would be right, which would be you know, home run hitters,
et cetera. If you could get guys that really just
move the ball, because there's a lot of places to
put it down there, a couple thumpers in there just
to see what would happen. Because it is different. I'm
(23:38):
here to tell you, folks, it's different. When I managed
at Midland, I had to think differently, even when regarding
when to take a starting.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Pitcher out of the game.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
You don't want to go to your bullpen too early
a lot of times because you think your team's going
to score runs too And you don't want to start
using up pitchers early because this is probably it's going
to be a high scoring game and you just can't
constantly go to that bullpen. So there's different attitudes here
at play. I'd love to see Pep based group make
(24:06):
a strong comeback, but again, philosophically, i'd have to see
him for at least a week or ten days to
really figure out.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
What I think.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, it reminds me of the great observation from Jim
Jim Leland who hated managing in that ballpark right and
he said they got it all wrong. They built the
place backward. He said, what they should have done is
they should have built it very small with high walls
like Fenway Park, because they figured, oh the ball travels
at altitude. So let's push the fences all the way back,
and you're creating, as you alluded to, Joe, so much
(24:35):
room in the outfield. It's just too hard to defend.
Nobody gets thrown out on the basis at cours Field.
It's just too much room in the outfield. So if
you did have higher walls, you at least would prevent
you know, these extra bases, these you know, fly balls
that drop for doubles, not singles. Guys going first to third,
(24:56):
guys going second to home, standing up all the time.
It's an interesting idea. It'll never happen, but I think
guarding against the extra flight altitude, they actually created an
even greater offensive ballpark because it's just so darn big. Now,
talking about analytics, the Marlins are doing something on the mound, Joe,
which is this is crazy to think the Marlins are
(25:19):
throwing more breaking pitches than they are fastballs. Let me
say that again. The Marlins are spinning the baseball more
than they're throwing fastballs. They're throwing thirty five percent fastballs
and they're throwing thirty nine percent breaking pitches. I've never
heard of anything like that. We all know that you
know fastball usage has been declining as people want swing
(25:42):
and miss and spin and pitch shaping. They're being done
in labs. Great. We all know that major league average
is thirty percent breaking balls. It's throwing thirty nine percent
breaking balls. Is it working well? I don't know. The
Marlins are eight and seven, they're nineteenth in ERA, and
they have the second highest walk rate in Major League Baseball.
(26:02):
Give me your take on a team Joe throwing more
spin than fastballs.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Just keep throwing it, man, They're going to make a
lot of mistakes with it. It's going to go far,
that's the big thing. I mean, I'm watching more and
more you get this kind. Guys have thrown ninety five
plus that are not proud of their fastball. Makes no
sense to me whatsoever. I still believe and I'm watching it.
I'd like to have a list of who really hits
(26:29):
that high velocity with any kind of consistency. And again,
part of it is they're going for the breaking ball.
I guess they're going for the punch off from the
very first pitch. I know Peter, Peter Bennix. I worked
with Peter with the Rays a couple years ago. It
was part of the analytical renaissance, or actually the nouveau
concept in baseball. So there's a ton of that going
(26:51):
on down there, and it's all analytically driven, all of
that stuff, there's no doubt. So this is one of
those things you got to wait and see.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
But I know this.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I mean, I watch and when the video compon of
MLB app I'll go back to the video because I'm
really curious about home runs and what kind of pitch
it was that went out of the ballpark. The other day,
Joe Odell, who I love, hit two home runs. Both
were hanging, breaking balls gone because of course you want
to throw Joe to Chase. I get that, you know,
(27:20):
Troty breaking ball down and away home run to right
field at Steinbrenner as an example, I'm always interested to
see who's really who's really turning around some gas writer
who's turning around ninety five plus, I'd love to see
what that looks like. I still believe, big believer in
a well located fastball still the very best pitch. And
(27:41):
when you do that and speed up the bat and
then here then here comes the breaking ball, et cetera.
So it's their cocktail it's their analytical cocktail that tells
them to do this last. But didn't we talk about
the Red Sox being very much into that also, So
this is part of the you know, the fall of
the leader kind of thing. So we'll see how it
all plays out. But I listen, I think you throw
(28:04):
too many of those. The big righty for the Red Sox,
how cutt he says.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Name, yeah, tenor helk.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I watched him yesterday or the day before. He got
his butt lit up and he kept throwing soft stuff.
And what's happening with his He's turning his pitch over
and his getting really flat, flat to the left hander's barrel,
flat to the point where the righties can get to it.
So it's hard to throw that many of those kind
of pitches successfully and really count on that to be
(28:32):
my liver die pitch.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
So anyway, I'm not into that quite frankly.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I think it'll come back and bite you at some point,
or it will sooner rather than later.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
I believe, like we always talk about it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I love the word balance, but I still believe a
well located fastball is still the best pitch.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
I love the changeup off of that.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I like a really a real curveball off of that,
and then if you have to go to split or whatever,
please do. But cutter, Cutter's become so cutter could be
just a bad fastball if it's not put in the
wright spot, especially against the guy that as like a
slider batspeed. So I could go on and on about this.
I'm just curious. I'll continue to watch it.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Thanks. I didn't even realize that.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, it's pretty amazing. You mentioned the Red Sox. Last
year their er actually was a full run higher in
the second half of the season. The kind of caught
up with them leaning on breaking pitches so much, and
this year they're not throwing as many. They're throwing a
few more fastballs. Some of that is Garrett Crochet, who's
got one of the best fastballs in baseball. And last year,
by the way, was the first year in recorded history
that pitchers threw more cutters than curveballs. If you go
(29:34):
back ten years, curveballs outnumbered cutters two to one, and
last year there were more cutters than curveballs. So people
are in love with that cutter. But we'll see. We're
keep an eye on the Marlins because that's just a
staggering number to me to throw just thirty five percent
fastballs as a staff, and it's tied for the youngest
staff in baseball with Tampa Bay. Now let's talk about
(29:55):
here's a question for you, Joe. You've been to so
many ballparks, obviously, what would you regard as the best
at mishp sphere in terms of just energy and vibe
and just a fun place to watch a baseball game.
What ballpark would you go to?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
There's a lot of groups that are a lot of
ballparks that are in second, third, and fourth and fifth place,
but Riglely, by far from me, was the best atmosphere
I've ever ever witnessed. Even walking into the ballpark, you
park your car right across the street in the left
field line. There's a firehouse out there, and people would
be lined up, I mean lined up as you walked
(30:35):
into the joint every day. And then you know, just
even batting practice, it's it's vibrant there. We played a
makeup game against the Indians on a Monday at one pm.
Don't remember the exact year, Lester versus Kluber. Forty thousand
folks at the game. It's just different. It's still the best.
I think it's one of the best venues in all
(30:56):
of sports.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Yeah, very good answer. By the way, I can't argue
about that. You got the Ballhawks out in the street
there on Waveland during beep. And I always tell people that,
you know, if you have a friend or a family
member who's not a baseball fan, maybe if they're from
another continent, right, and you want to give them full
taste of what watching a Major League Baseball game is like,
bring them to Wrigley Field. Bring them to a day game.
(31:20):
Especially night games are cool, but there's nothing like a
day game at Wrigley Field. That being said, I think
people Joe really have to understand what is going on
in San Diego because that place has become a huge
baseball town and it is such a fun vibe in
that ballpark. Monday night in April, that's like the worst
(31:43):
time for Major League Baseball teams to draw crowds, right,
you still have school in session, you know, other places
on the East Coast, obviously you're dealing with weather, not
really the case in San Diego. But anyway, Monday night
and San Diego, the Padres draw their usual forty seven
thousand at Peco Park. That place is rock and the
(32:05):
Padres started out winning their first eleven games at home
eleven and zero, best record in baseball thirteen and three.
It is an incredible vibe and you can see Joe
and I know your Cubs team did this as well,
the team responding and thriving off the energy in the ballpark.
You know, home and road records sometimes fluctuate, but I
(32:26):
think there's a true home field advantage right now. It's
not so much making things miserable for the other team.
It's just uplifting for the players to play in front
of forty seven thousand last night. That don't need to
be told when the cheer. It's just a great, great
baseball vibe going on in San Diego.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
First of all, it's a gorgeous ballpark. They did Oh
my god, the location, everything about that place is first
class ballpark, dejure everything about it. But the thing that
really I wrote the word as you were describing the
fans of the fan base and what's going on there,
I think of cult. I've always believed there's kind of
like a cult falling with the the powerful Pods, even
(33:06):
when they had not been doing well. There's a certain
dedicated group. It's rather a large, dedicated group. It's almost
like as stuck in the sixties seventies kind of a group,
which I love because that's when true baseball fans, the
result residue if your dad, your mom, really real strong
baseball fans growing up in the post World War two era,
it's kind of like got this thing. And I've always
(33:28):
liked that about it. You'll see them coming out. They
support their group. They are very they are very vocal.
And then the other thing they do with the military
down there really creates another level of excitement and something
that they're all proud of and they should be. We're
just ballpark cult following, and right now there's just actually
got some pretty good ball players. They've done a wonderful
(33:51):
job of being patient and they put this thing together.
I think Machado's really understanding what leadership's all about. And
Tatista as well. And the shortstop is solid also, and
there's others of course. But and they got you know,
some pretty good pitching too, but Cole following, yep.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
And a gorgeous ballpark.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, they got a good thing going on. They brought
in some real glue guys. Your buddy, our buddy, Jason Hayward,
Jose Iglesias. You know, they've done a nice job filling
in the roster with glue guys. And that includes Gavin Sheets,
by the way, and this is pretty cool. The crowded
San Diego has developed a chant for Gavin Sheets. When
(34:31):
he comes up, they chant, Holy sheets, Holy Sheets.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
There, you go, something like that is born of like
utilization of some kind of a product that illicits creativity.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, they got that going on, there's no question about that.
And what they also have their secret sauces. Their bullpen.
Oh my goodness, Joe. Their bullpen this year has started
four and oh well one point five to one area
the best bullpen in baseball. They've allowed thirty two hits
in almost sixty innings. Their offense is relentless. So what's
(35:10):
happening here is the bullpen just locks games down and
gives their offense a chance to come back in the
games that they don't have a lead. Mike Schuld does
an amazing job with that group as well. So I listen,
it's still the Dodgers who you have to start with
in that division. But San Diego to me, looks like
they are really really dangerous.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
The whole group, right, I mean, you got the Giants
playing really well. Also, I mean the Diamondbacks always lurk
and then they spring eventually.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
It is. It's a very interesting group, you know what.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
The Dodgers just there's got that baseball malaise going on
a little bit right now. Great start, almost like some
baseball boredom right there, right now. They'll get over it.
They'll get over it almost. It's almost like somebody has
to get on top of them for them all to
wake up. But you got to be careful because if
this team the bullpen, when you get bullpens like that,
(36:03):
they could shut down anybody. But I do like the
Giants too. I like the vibe with the Giants right now. Also,
I think what Buster's done up there, It just seems
as though they've they've kind of again turned back the
clock in a good way. Bowmel is really probably managing
his best version of himself right now because he's more
comfortable with the vibe up from the front office on
(36:24):
down and the Giants to have this gritty way of
playing baseball. I've always been a fan. I mean, Boach
had been there back in the days in the National League,
go all the way back to Mays, McCovey, all the
way up to the President, there's always been a little
bit not dirty in a sense dirty, they're just down
and dirty. They play it hard, they play it right well, Clark,
all these guys. So they got this thing. They got
(36:44):
this thing. Maybe it's representative of the city that they
play in. So I would not discount the Giants right now.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I like what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
It's going to be very interesting n West during the
entire season.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
I think it's a great point about the Giants, And
you're right, they have gotten back to the way they
played under Boach, which is, you know, good fundamental baseball pitching, defense.
They're a much better base running team. And this is
the team that obviously Buster Posey, you know, grew up
with as a player, and that's kind of the imprint
he's putting on this team. The other thing there have
Joe's stability. You know, the old group there in San Francisco,
(37:18):
they were moving roster pieces all the time, changing the
lineup every day, they were chasing every incremental edge that
they could. There was just this disruption that was going on.
You know they loved guys with options in the bullpen.
They go up, they go down. Buster and bow Mel
now are really emphasizing stability, not doing a whole lot
with the lineup on a day to day basis. I
(37:38):
know the first two weeks, two and a half weeks
of the season, they had no roster changes. And this
team is digging it. This team is leaning into stability
and finding out who they are as a group. So
I think they've got not just momentum, Joe, but they're
really starting to establish a culture of who they are.
And when you win games while doing that, you become
(37:58):
really dangerous.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
They know who is in charge.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
It's pretty simple, and I would I don't again, I
would believe that. It sounds as though bow Mill's able
to respond to the players needs, wishes, whatever directly without
having to consult.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
That's what I kind of get from it. I would
have to believe.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Buster, growing up the way he did in the game
would kind of empower his manager to be able to
make some of these decisions where he doesn't have to
be checked in with all the time. It's got to
be that kind of trust going on. So there's it is,
it's it's refreshing to see.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Right now. I'm really pulling for them for a.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Lot of different reasons, but because I do like Bobby
a lot. But it's let's just see how it all
plays out, because it it just reeks in a good
way of tried and true and they're playing really well.
They just did a nice job with the Yankees. They've
done a nice job in general. So it's going to
be a really fun ride in the nl West this year.
And I the way it's broken, it looks so easily
(38:52):
to think that Dodgers are gonna just, you know, boat
race the whole thing again.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
There's there's too many suitors right now that really are
looking pretty good.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
I agree. Hey, we're going to take a quick break,
and when we get back, I want to ask Joe Madden,
three time Manager of the Year World Series Champion about
something I call manager speak. We'll do that right after
this Welcome Back to the Book of Joe podcast. And
(39:29):
the other day Aaron Boone was talking about Carlos Redon.
I don't know if you caught it, but he got
beat by hanging a curveball to Jung Hu Lee. It's
probably I don't know his fourth or fifth best pitch,
that he'd flip up something there a little bit differently,
and Verdonna has been hurt by home runs this year
a big time. Aaron Boone after the game said he's
(39:49):
throwing the ball exceptionally well. Now Carlos Redon's velocity is
down two miles an hour. He leaves the American League
and earn runs allowed and home runs, and his walk
rate is a career worse. I know you have to
back your players and listen. Some of his underlying numbers
are good. He's still getting some swings and misses, and
(40:12):
strike out rate is fine. But I know sometimes Joe,
a manager, even especially after a loss, has to say thing.
It brings me back to Bobby Cox. I remember Tom
Glavin telling me that after a game, Glavin thought he
threw the ball terribly. Bobby Cox would always have his
back to such an extent. Tom would say, was he
watching the same game I just pitched. Give me your
(40:36):
take on what you have to present to a media
as a manager without being you know, deceitful if you will.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Right, Well, he did say he's throwing well, so maybe
like he's he sees the ball out of his hand,
but he's not pitching very well obviously, you know, so
you're always playing with semantics sometimes. One of my main
tenants was when addressing the media, was he to both
be Jack Ryan and you have to defend your brood
all the time. So being Jack Ryan would be being
(41:04):
upfront and honest as quickly as I possibly could, because
when you were able to do that, whatever the situation was,
you take all the heat out of it. So like
before the media would come in room, I talked to
Rick Vaughan or Peter Chase or Adam Chosco. We would
talk about in advance, because that's how this thing works.
(41:25):
And I'd always say, I'm going Jack Ryan. I'm shooting
it straight up and to be very honest with them,
and I'm going to tell them the truth because all
the time, a lot of times you'll get the word
from upstairs that they want you to say this or that,
especially when it came down to an injury potentially because
they always thought that it would impact potential trades and
things to that nature.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Whatever, So go Jack Ryan.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Jack Ryan famously protagonist in a lot of the Clancy novels.
When confronted with a situation with the presidents. Not only
was the president's friend was involved in a big drug
bust in or death in the Caribbean. Not only was
not only was he one of my friends, but he
was one of my best friends. Go right through it,
and that's what I chose to do. The other part
(42:05):
is to and this is where he gets tricky, to
praise publicly and criticize privately. And that's what Boonie was
doing right there. So maybe you know, Boonie's just trying
to take the heat off him a little bit, and
that's what you.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Try to do.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
And maybe then afterwards you got to go talk to
the guy, you know, be a little bit more blunt
with him. I read that years ago and I still
abide bye to praise publicly, criticized privately, But when it
comes down to a general group, the team in general,
but not specifically to one particular player, and that would
be to go Jack Ryan and just be very very
(42:38):
upfront and honest about it, because that totally disarms the
situation as opposed to add fire to the to the
to the embers.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yeah, it's really interesting what's going on with Radon. I mean,
obviously he was a fastball slider, guy big time through
most of his career, and just two years ago, for instance,
sixty percent for seemers and sliders, he's down with thirty
nine percent. They gave him a two same this year. Again.
The fastball velocity, which ninety five point four last year,
(43:08):
is down to ninety three point seven. I don't know
whether this is by design, whether they see that just
the arm strength isn't there in terms of foreseen velocity.
But he's a different kind of pitcher. We'll see how
it plays out. And the Yankees have the least velocity
of any staff in the major leagues. And listen, they
lost Garrett Cole, they lost Louise Heel, Clark Schmid is
(43:30):
just coming back. I get it. They're down three starting pitchers,
but this is a team that leads the league and walks.
They're also very high in strikeouts, by the way, but
their average velocity is just ninety two. Average below in
the major leagues is ninety four. So it's a different
kind of Yankee staff. But I'm really curious to see
how Rodain plays out here, if he's going to continue
(43:50):
to just, you know, kind of sit and coast. At
ninety three ninety four, we're not seeing the ninety sevens
and ninety eight is the way we we did for years,
the high four seam fastball, the arm angles a little
bit lower, it'd be transitioning to a different pitcher. Maybe
it's just April. I don't know, but I tend to
reserve judgment Joe in April because the weather tends to
(44:11):
be really bad and it's tough for pitchers, especially power pitchers,
to really find their stride early.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Totally agree.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
I mean, it's not time to really get upset about anything.
One of my other tenants was that I always believe
that adrenaline plays early in a baseball season and then
real players play after that. It's normally like a two
to three week window for me. So you're going to
see ascending teams, teams that really need to get out
there quick and prove themselves that they're they have talent,
(44:39):
of course, and you're going to see that, and then
like the Dodgers, for instance, who are really really good.
Maybe a little bit more pedestrian right now. So I
used to when evaluating players, specifically guys that historically have
never hit like three hundred, are never hit for power whatever,
and all of.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
A sudden they are. Give it a little time.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Let's see how this plays out over a period of
time as opposed to the guy that always hit for power,
always hit for a average. Really, like one of your
best players stinks right now. Just give it some time.
So adrenaline plays early and then after that real players play.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Yeah, I think I might have given you wrong numbers.
I'm renown in terms of his percentage. His fastball percentage
has gone from sixty percent to thirty nine percent. If
you combine it with the slider, he's gone from ninety
two percent to sixty seven percent. So he's a different pitcher.
I get it. But I like your theory, Joe, about
you know, letting things play out here early in the season,
because listen, you've seen the weather in the East and
(45:34):
the Midwest. It's been super cold and wet in a
lot of places. So make determinations at your own risk
this early.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Right It's just like your driver and you're trying to
hit the ball in Princeton right now with your driver.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
It's going to it's not going anywhere.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
It can't. It can't.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
It's too cold, it doesn't want to, and plus the
winds down here in Florida, Oh my god, it's like
a wind tunnel down here. It's one of those things
you got to learn how to do. You got to
learn how to play into the wind. Easy right when
it's breezy. Go easy. When you try to do it
too hard, the balls is scattered all over the place.
And same thing in baseball. They got the wind blown
in your face. You're swinging harder. It's just it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Man.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Wind and weather. Probably wind. Cold and wind are the
two factors in all sports. When you talk about guys
that handle the ball. There's a quarterback in football, pitcher
in baseball, even you know hitter with the have hitting
the ball with the bat that's going to sting. Just
give a little time, man, Your can's got to warm up,
Your muscles have to be looser. And even psychologically, man,
(46:33):
when that winds blown in your face all the time,
it presents differently, and then all of a sudden your
mechanics may break down because you get too quick or
try to do things too hard.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Well, Joe, we as we tend to do here have
been all over the map. So I'm going to rely
on you. I don't know where you're going here to
end this edition, to the Book of Joe. But you
always end appropriately and interestingly. So what do you got today?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
You brought up the word courage earlier, who's should have returned? Yeah,
exactly began right, and I think that's where I begin,
and nice because I was thinking about him and what
he had done there obviously, so I was researching a
little bit of different thoughts that I had. And this
comes from Thucidadise through Sydides, a former Greek dude, and
(47:18):
he wrote, the secret to happiness is freedom, and the
secret to freedom is courage. And you got to me,
you're never going to accomplish all that you want to
accomplish unless you conquer our fears. And the fears are
like we create them ourselves. I mean, we put ghosts
or whatever around every corner and we shy away from it.
(47:40):
And then with that and the secret to freedom is courage.
And then it made me think about something else. And
he didn't even realize that Churchill had said this, But
courage is the quality that guarantees all others.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
I've always loved that one.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
And so it took a high level of golfing courage
for what McElroy did when it came to Churchill, the
courage you demonstrate it was, you know, having the England survive.
I mean there's different levels of thinking regarding this, but
it comes down to that one thing that permits you
courage is the quality that guarantees all others courage, fearlessness, empathy,
(48:15):
whatever you want to describe as the other qualities attach it.
I think about those other qualities we have as humans,
and with the courage really guarantees that this other quality
can be present. So I thought that and like we
talked about earlier, his way that they demonstrate it by
just putting his burying his face into the turf there.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
Man, I'm curious how to see how he plays.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, Joe, because I
feel the same way. I feel like you saw that
outpouring of emotion. And does this free him up now
to be even better or does it satisfy him now?
And he's got this feeling of I did it, and
he could take a foot off the pedal. It'll be
interesting to see where he goes. What do you think.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
I don't think you satiate it at all.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
I think he's one of those guys think about He's
one of about five sixth dud's ever to win all
the Grand Slam things. So that's Jordan, that's Bird, you know,
that's Brady. That's like something that nobody really does. And
those guys. My point is.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Jeter that they they never backed off.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I don't think he's capable of backing off, but I
do believe that this would be my guest that this
is going to permit him to breathe more easily in
more difficult moments.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
And also, you know, I.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Really believe if I had a bet, that the fluidity
within his body's gonna actually become even more fluid, if
that makes any sense. So heads up, and I read
about it today. I guess the upcoming tournaments, the golf
courses he's done really well at in the past, so
let's see what plays out. But I'm saying this is
like the lynchpin the freedom of movement for him right now,
(49:50):
and I'm really curious to see how this plays out.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Dangerous combination when you talk about that level of talent
with freedom at ease of mind. I can't wait to
see how it plays out. Absolutely, it's been fun, Joe.
We'll keep an eye on the Marlins. The padre and
the Rockies as things get better, or in the Padres case,
if they keep it rolling, and we'll see you next
time on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Thank your brother and McElroy too. See you, babe.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey there and welcome back to the Book of Joe
Podcast with Me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe.
After last week's episode in which we previewed the Masters,
(00:28):
I got to get your quick take on what just
happened down in Augusta, Georgia with Rory McElroy riding the
roller coaster to the Green Jacket.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
First of aft ad mid I did pick Justin Thomas.
He had a rough time, started out okay and then
really faded. Regarding the conclusion going into that last day,
I truly believe these chambau is going to catch him,
just based on history, how McElroy where recently has responded
to those moments and how the Chambeau has so I
really thought, and it says started out with the double bogie,
(00:58):
I thought, here we go. But I give him credit, man,
he hung in there really well. And the guy's like
super to he was just he just had this albatross
attached to his neck for a couple of years regarding
this and it really truly truly has I think prevented
and now that's gone and you know, even at the
end of the tournament when he got to his knees
and just buried his face in the in the green,
(01:22):
I mean you could see what was relief was a
relief more than joy, I don't know, but it was
very interesting.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Quite frankly, I can't.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I'm a big mclroy fan, you know, I respect his abilities.
But I was happy for him because to have not
won that really, I think could have been somewhat devastating
and could have carried over into so many different parts
of his life. That's what I was saying. So I
was happy that it occurred. I'm glad I d Chambeau
is gonna win another one. There's no doubt. I really
(01:49):
believe he's that good, and I love his personality and
the way he attacks the day in the game. We
need more of that in all of our sports. But anyway,
I was happy he won because now the guy can
breathe and live again.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
One hundred percent agree with you, Joe, That's what I saw.
I saw a relief more than joy on that eighteenth
green there, and you'd hate to think about what would
happen if he didn't close that out after it was
in his hands a couple of times. But give him
a ton of credit. I mean, you know how hard
it is Joe and sports to just hang in there
and come back immediately from adversity. You know, It's one
(02:22):
thing to have a bad day and come back the
next day and reset everything. But he had to do
that on the fly on several different shots and holes,
you know, including a putt to win the Masters that
he missed on the seventy second hole. So I give
him a ton of credit. With all the scar tissue
that guy has to somehow get through that. I thought
it was a courageous performance, if you will, in terms
(02:46):
of athleticism, in terms of sticking through tough times. And
you know what that's like, Joe, for a player to
kind of in any sport, especially when you've had so
many disappointments and it means so much to you to
find a resolve to fight through it.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Kind of a Cubs moment there, I though.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
That's what I was thinking about too, And like you're
talking about his game itself and the comeback whatever, But God,
he has such an advantage just from the way he
drives a golf ball.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I mean, it makes the course shorter.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It's like he is a starter and a middle relief
pitcher to get closer to the to the green, which then,
of course for the people that do player don't play,
you know, those shorter iron shots lot easier to control,
command and control, So that part of it is truly
incredible to watch. I mean, every swing that he takes
with his driver is so confident, and then the other shots,
(03:33):
you know, he can be wonderful but sometimes less confident.
So that's that's part of his game. He just overpowered.
We were talking years ago, several years ago about d
Chambeau overpowering when he went I can remember the tournament,
but all of a sudden he came to this brute
strength and his ability to drive the ball farther than
anybody else, and how that was going to lead to
a tournament after tournament victory. But you play it and
(03:56):
I play, you know how much the other part of
the game is so vital and success. But McElroy's ability
to drive the golf ball gosh, I mean, that really
provides an advantage, especially when the course is playing as
long as that one does. But again that's just going
around in about just give him credit. But he's truly
a rare talent and to watch the ball. Watch that
(04:16):
swing on the driver is really incredible to watch.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I'm glad you brought up the Cubs because this is
the tenth year anniversary of your first year right with
the Chicago Cubs, and you inherited that group of young players,
brought him to the finish line the next year in
twenty sixteen. Yep, and one of your young players back
then Rookie of the Year in twenty fifteen MVP. In
twenty sixteen, Chris Bryant in the news again, unfortunately for
(04:41):
wrong reasons. Health wise, he went on the injured list
with Lombard degenerative disease, which sounds really bad. Basically, his
back has been killing him and you know, he saw
doctor Watkins out in LA and he has to shut
it down. The Rockies are hoping it's not a long
term issue. But ever since he signed his contract with
the Rockies, which is seven years, one hundred and eighty
(05:03):
two million dollars, Chris has had a hard time staying
on the field. He's played just one hundred and seventy
games in the fourth seasons since he signed with the Rockies.
And when he has been on the field, he let's
face it, he has not been very good. Two forty
four batting average, three seventy slug and even with Corus
Field as your home field, his adjusted ops is eighty four,
(05:24):
whereas one hundred average. Joe, you saw this guy in
his prime, which was when he first got to the
big leagues.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
He slugged five oh eight with the Cubs, thirty nine
home runs in his MVP season, ran like the wind
on the bases, played multiple positions. I want to start
by asking you this, Joe, and you had Chris Bryant
in fifteen and sixteen. What did the future look like
to you watching Chris Bryant play?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, it was virtually unlimited, right, because you just described them.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Will He's just he was.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
He is a complete baseball player. He did everything well,
played multiple positions, had a fine arm, really ran well
and ran the basis as good as anybody in baseball
at that particular time, had big pop, hit home runs
to all parts of the field, and could keep a
batting average alive. Even because he ran so well, he
had this tendency sometimes to like get his butt out
(06:17):
and just flick a little ground ball, make the short
stop move to his right. He beat it out great teammate,
good guy. I mean, I really enjoyed my conversations with him.
There was nothing to not like about KB. And to
see the decline more recently, it's it's been really hard
to watch. I guess the back has been bothering. I
understand that. You know, with that, the way his swing
(06:39):
is broken down, and inability to kind of like to
maintain like a posture in his in his swing and
constantly like leaning over to reach at pitches probably had
something to do with it. The back had something to
do with all of that, and that's where the decline
really showed up. You're right going to cors My god.
I mean when he first came up with the Cubs
is one of probably his greatest strengths was driving the
(07:00):
ball to right center field and with power. It was
how he came out of University of San Diego. THEO
told me that from the beginning, and of course there
it was, and then it started to become more pol oriented,
and I think, just like I said, he started leaning
over a little bit and wasn't able to let the
ball get to him and drive it to the other
side of the field.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
So there's a lot been going on. I had all
kinds of.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Conversations with KB and he's one of my all time faves.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Love to see this somehow rectifyself.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
But when you talk about degenerative stuff, obviously that's not
normally going to get better. So we'll see it all
plays out. But I want people to know this is
a really good guy. Like him a lot and wasn't
just a great athlet He was a really good baseball player.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, you know, I second all that too. I mean,
I feel for him. You know, it's not for lack
of effort. And you know when you have these physical injuries,
and he's had a variety of them. It has not
just been the back. He's had plant dark FASTI, He's
had leg issues, won't. It just seems like he's not
been able to stay healthy through any length of time.
And you mentioned THEO seeing him, you know, in college
(08:06):
and drafting him number two pick in the draft that year.
The Rockies thought for sure the Cubs were going to
take John Gray, and they thought they were going to
get Chris Bryant. It's one of the reasons why they
signed him as a free agent. Like, you know, they
missed out on Chris Bryant as an amateur when they
really were surprised the Cubs went with Brian, But I
remember THEO saying he sat down with him, interviewed him himself,
(08:28):
and of course you could see the skills and the
home run power. You talked about Joe, but THEO was
so impressed with him just from a character side of it, saying,
this is the kind of guy you want as a
franchise player, and he did turn out to be that
kind of player. It was a great evaluation. Not to
say that John Gray hasn't had a really good career,
He's had his own issues with health. But Chris Bryant,
(08:49):
it's just it's kind of sad because I do think
you were looking at a guy who came out of
the shoot there as the Rookie of the Year, MVP
World Series champion, looked like he was going to be
a repeat All Star every year for you know, a
decade or more, And now you're around Joe at some
of your guys there, and you know, Hovey Baiaz has
kind of followed that same arc. You know, he's had injuries.
(09:11):
He signed the big contract with Detroit and you know,
six years, one hundred and forty million, he's hit two
twenty two with the Tigers and a three forty eight slug. Now,
I think the game kind of caught up with Hobby Bias.
He wasn't able to make adjustments to seeing all those
breaking balls and really stay off pitches out of the zone.
And you know, I think the Ross skills are still
(09:34):
there with Hobby Bias.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
He still can play a good shortstop, but the lack
of plate discipline just has really held him back.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I mean, he's a classic example of analytics catching up
to him and him not making the adjustment.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
He's always been a wild swinger.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
The first time I saw him in Puerto Rico, I
food down there when I got the job. Eddie Perez
was the manager, and I sat with Eddie before the
game finally got to meet Hobby.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
I was just trying to.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I went there to really want to get to know him.
Heard all about it him this wonderful athletic ability, etc.
And the night I saw him, I made some great
base running plays, great play to his left. He was
playing some second base, which I still believe is his
best position, and I saw the wild swing more. Let's
turn the clock forward right now, when we had him
(10:20):
with the Cubbies. You know, he was surrounded by a
pretty good group, a very good group, and I just
believe he was more able to, or more willing to,
or whatever you want to call it, to use the
other side of the field, which I still believe is
his friend. I say that right center is your friend,
that's your buddy. If you could just stay there, he's
(10:40):
still gonna have a big swing. It's really hard to
get him to knock that down to something smaller than
but at least it's a mental adjustment more than it
is a physical adjustment for him. That's the first part
about it. Second part more recently, actually talked to Scotti Harris.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Last year I think was last year.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, and I said, this might sound nuts, but I
would really consider him becoming a swingitter. Mari Wills did
that later in his life. Mariy Wills, I don't think
started switch hitting to his letter later twenties, if.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
I remember correctly reading about it.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
If you ever watched Tobby and batting practices, screwing around
hitting left handed, wow, you wouldn't even know. If you
walked up there and saw him doing that, you would
think he was a left handed hitter. If it's not
working and we're not seeing any kind of adjustments, it's
primarily there's two things.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
That's chased with.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
The fastball elevated and it's chased with the breaking ball
down down in a way. So just give him a
different seat, like let him watch the movie from the
left side with the right he coming at him, and
see if there's anything that goes with that.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I still think it was worth.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
It's a worthy try to do something like that, because
he's that talented. Right now, he's hitting over I think
right around three hundred. He's doing a little bit better.
I follow him all the time. I follow KB box
score wise all the time. But Hobby seems to be
making some in roads right now. And again I haven't
watched enough to know that, but I've always stopped for him.
(12:04):
It might be interesting to put him on both sides
of the plan and see if that just perks him up,
and see what that would do for him now and
in his career.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
A fascinating idea like the just the thought of giving
it a try, right why not? And I have seen
him swing the bat left handed is pretty darn impressive.
A couple other guys from your Cubby's team. You know,
Anthony Rizzo, of course, couldn't get a job, couldn't find
a job this offseason. Four years with the Yankees, he
had two thirty four, and injuries caught up with him,
(12:32):
especially it seemed like he never really came back from
the concussion. And then Kyle Schwarber. You know, you look
back at the core of that team and to me,
the one guy who who really actually improved it got
better as he's aging here through his thirties is Kyle Schwarber.
I mean, he he has slugged four ninety three with
the Phillies. That's higher than it was before. And he's
(12:53):
scheduled to hit free agency at the end of the season.
And you know, he's a steady run producer who still
takes his walk and does a ton of damage from
the left side. So give me your quick takes now
as we're catching up with your former cubbies here on
Riz and Schwartz.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah, well, Riz obviously the big difference with him.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
He's a little bit older, and he's had a lot
of issues himself and particularly his back, and the concussion
was huge, no doubt about it, but his back has
always been problematic. Every year during the season he'd have
to sit out a couple of days, maybe.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
A week, in order to get the back back on track.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So there's always these little nick spumps and bruises that
eventually wear he done. He's a big guy. Riz is
not little. Brizz is a big guy. He is a
really good baseball player. He's got as good of a
baseball IQ as anybody I've ever had. He's almost like
he was born in Puerto Rico. His baseball IQ is
that good. Good teammate, does a lot of things really
(13:49):
well in the field, really creative. He and I did
all those little creative things with the bunt when I
had him post up between the mound on first baseline,
so that the was the Brewers primarily would bunt right
to and we would be turning double plays.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
But he has fear spearlessness about getting in there.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
A lot of guys wouldn't even think about doing stuff
like that. But that was he and I talking about things.
We would talk about all these different little nuances on
defense to just try to mess with the other team.
Part of it was because of Leicester Johnny not being
able to throw over to first base, so just trying
to become creative. Rizzo has that kind of an IQ.
Swarve's on the other hand, I think he has gradually
(14:28):
steadily gotten better. And I saw him the other day
was at Sale that he hit the bomb against Sale.
I think he hit a ball off the wall and
the ball over the wall against him. He's gotten better
against left these is what I'm saying. And the thing
that really I don't think will abandon him is is
a command of the strike so and that's really a
separator for Schwarves. His command, he doesn't let one at
(14:48):
bat bleed into the next one. He could strike off five, six,
seven times in a rows, not going to impact his confidence.
He goes up there with the same kind of game plan.
So I think that's going to continue. I think it's
a good bet. I don't even know how old is
he Not twenty eight, twenty nine, thirties.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
He's thirty thirty one.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Okay, So the.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Free agency numbers got into the years isn't going to
be as great. But I still think because of his
strength level and his command of the strike zone, and
the fact that he's gotten better against left handed pitching,
it's still.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Going to be He's still going to be attractive.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, he just turned thirty two, by the way, And yeah,
you made a great point about against left handed pitching.
I mean, I don't know if I remember a situation
where a guy has improved this much to this deep
into his career. And give credit to Kevin Long, the
Philadelphia Phillies hitting coach ever since he got there, and
obviously Kevin had him in Washington as well briefly. But
(15:40):
you know, Kevin makes sure and Kevin's left handed himself,
but say, for instance, he's giving him soft toss, Kevin
will make sure that he does it from an angle
where the ball is coming from behind his back the
way it would from a left handed pitcher on the
first pace side of the rubber. When he sets up
the pitching machine, he makes sure that is angled from
a left hander's point of view. So Kyle's seeing over
(16:02):
and over and over again that ball coming at him
or away from him, and starting at him and moving
away from him. And last year he hit three hundred
against lefties, and he's off to a terrific start this
year against lefties.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
He's not missing his pitch when he sees his pitch,
he's not missing it against the lefties.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah. I mean, he's gonna have a great market as
a free agent, obviously because of age and maybe not length.
But there's a whole lot of baseball left in Kyle Schwarber, Joe,
we're going to take a quick break. There's some teams
that I need to talk to you about that are
off to you. Just starts that really caught my attention.
The Padres, the Rockies, and the Marlins. Yeah, the Marlins,
(16:38):
they're all doing really, really interesting things, and we'll.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Talk about that right after this on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. We've talked about
Chris Bryant and things have well, not been going real
well for the Colorado Rockies. Joe off to a really
tough start. Three and twelve. They've been outscored. This is
hard to believe, eighty four to forty, so that the
run differential is greater than the amount of runs that
they've scored. I mean, you just don't see this in
(17:21):
the major leagues. The team batting average is two eighteen.
They went thirty two consecutive innings without scoring a run
against the Padres and the Dodgers before they finally get
on the board, and poor Buddy Black, our good friend,
Bud Black, manager of the Colorado Rockies. You know, he
lives in San Diego in the offseason. He figures he'll
(17:42):
stay at home during the series at Dodger Stadium and
take the train up to Dodger Stadium for the game.
So he's on the station waiting for the train to
go to Union Station in La. It's in the morning
on Monday, and there's an announcement that there is well,
he felt it there was an earthquake and the train.
They couldn't run the trains because that they make sure
the tracks had not been compromised from the earthquake. So
(18:04):
to get to the ballpark you at the grab a
ride share. It cost him two hundred bucks to get
the Dodge Stadium from San Diego. Stay hot, Buddy Black.
But man, they listen, it's a tough division. There are
no breaks in that division. Right, It's a very maybe
the deepest division in baseball. But the Rockies just can't
seem to get it right. And after a couple of
(18:25):
one hundred lost seasons, Joe, this may be the worst
of all the way it's starting out.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, I've been watching that.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
I've listened to Buddy Black Pepe Pepe Negro, so I
refer to him Pepe and I stay in touch. I
haven't yet this year, but yeah, it's been. It has
been tough to watch and you're just hit on it.
I mean, the discrepancy in the batting, the hitting, the power,
whatever you want to call it. Here in Colorado, it's
a different world. You're you're playing on the moon. You know,
(18:52):
the zero's gravity when you're playing in that ballpark. I
just haven't watched them enough. I probably need to just
tune them in a little bit more to see what
I actually think about, you know, the group and how
they're performing and fundamentally and all that kind of stuff.
I just don't know, but it is. It's incongruent. I mean,
I've played, I managed in Midland, Texas, and Midland is
(19:12):
kind of like that really windy ballflies West Texas.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Dry air. It's not unlike playing in Colorado.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And the one thing about that teams that I had
down there and the other ones that even roven in
and out of we would always hit well at home.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
My concern was always on the road.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Then we go to Beaumont, Texas, you go to Shreveport,
you go to Little Rock, you go to Tulsa, San Antonio, Boumont,
all these places was completely different version of baseball. So
the last couple of days before we would leave town,
I would insist on in batting practice line drives and
hard ground balls and if you hit the ball on
top of the screen or the net at all and
(19:51):
VP you're out next hitter, Just to try to really
emphasize thing on the line and try not to lift
the ball on that because I know that's pretty much
what the world's all about right now, getting the ball
in their etc. So again, I don't know enough philosophically
about what they're doing there. I don't know anything about
what they're doing there, but to not be offensive, i'd
(20:13):
be and play in that market right there. It just
doesn't make any sense. I played, actually played myself in
Boulder a couple of summers, and I even hit for
power up there.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I was like crazy. So it's like.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
I'd love to be, you know, fly on the wall
just or just go scout them for a week and
come back with a better idea of what I think.
But it just doesn't make any sense even I mean,
these are still big League ballplayers. It doesn't make any
sense that there'd be such a two eighteen team batting
average in that and that zero gravity. Maybe the weather's
(20:44):
been cold. I don't know, but I have to believe
they're going to get better than that.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, As you know, one of the difficulties the Rockies face,
and there are many when you play at altitude, is
adjusting to not playing at altitude. And you know, the
balls just don't break as much at course field at
altitude as they do on the roads, so they're constantly
adjusting to seeing. Especially to me, it's more about breaking
(21:09):
pitches and seeing them break more when they go on
the road. So that's what happened. This was obviously a
small sample, but they just came off a long homestand
and they go to San Diego. Now you're on the
road and you're seeing that pitching staff and everything looks
like it's extremely difficult to hit because you're always going
back and forth. It's never the same break on a
(21:29):
pitch that you're looking at. So I've always thought, Joe,
it's so hard to put a winning team together in
Colorado because the game is just played so differently in
that ballpark. And that's not going to change. All these
years the Rockies management, no matter who it is, they
still haven't figured out what wins in Colorado. I don't
(21:49):
think they ever will.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
But part of it is, I mean, if you look
at the ballpark, it so if they built it bigger,
the gaps are huge, huge.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I mean, the ball stays in there forever.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
And so for me, it's always been about don't necessarily
change your game, take advantage of that. I mean, when
you're in a ball park like that, or played in Middland,
Texas or Albuquerque, all these places, you're almost playing analytically.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Never wanted to.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Make outs on the basis because you never wanted to
subtract a runner before that two or three run home run.
That was always a concern. And I had some guys
that could run, but I turned them loose. A Devon White,
I had Mark Macklamore, Gray Key, had a lot of
guys that could really go. I'd let him go because
I knew that when it came to development, they're eventually
going to play more at sea level and their speed
(22:30):
is going to be a part of the game. So
I just again i'd philosophically, I don't know, but I
do know that I would really want to get some
ground ball pitchers in that ballpark, and of course guys
that misbats, that's what you're looking for.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
From the mound. You got to play defense there.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
You gotta have guys in the middle that could really
run it down and don't give extra outs. You have
a tendency to play deeper than there's a lot of
more balls falling in front of guys there.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
But as a.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Hitter, you have all this room to put the ball down.
So again, are you just trying to hit home runs?
Take advantage with the ball in the air, go with
the thought de ju and that's just too back leg
and put the ball in the air. Of that kind
of stuff. So it's a there is a different game.
There's a it's a different game needs to be discussed.
That's probably been discussed at nauseum. But for me playing
(23:15):
it in that situation like that, especially how big the
ballpark is, I really would almost like to see a
whitey version there and just like disregard which you think
would be right, which would be you know, home run hitters,
et cetera. If you could get guys that really just
move the ball, because there's a lot of places to
put it down there, a couple thumpers in there just
to see what would happen. Because it is different. I'm
(23:38):
here to tell you, folks, it's different. When I managed
at Midland, I had to think differently, even when regarding
when to take a starting.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Pitcher out of the game.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
You don't want to go to your bullpen too early
a lot of times because you think your team's going
to score runs too And you don't want to start
using up pitchers early because this is probably it's going
to be a high scoring game and you just can't
constantly go to that bullpen. So there's different attitudes here
at play. I'd love to see Pep based group make
(24:06):
a strong comeback, but again, philosophically, i'd have to see
him for at least a week or ten days to
really figure out.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
What I think.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, it reminds me of the great observation from Jim
Jim Leland who hated managing in that ballpark right and
he said they got it all wrong. They built the
place backward. He said, what they should have done is
they should have built it very small with high walls
like Fenway Park, because they figured, oh the ball travels
at altitude. So let's push the fences all the way back,
and you're creating, as you alluded to, Joe, so much
(24:35):
room in the outfield. It's just too hard to defend.
Nobody gets thrown out on the basis at cours Field.
It's just too much room in the outfield. So if
you did have higher walls, you at least would prevent
you know, these extra bases, these you know, fly balls
that drop for doubles, not singles. Guys going first to third,
(24:56):
guys going second to home, standing up all the time.
It's an interesting idea. It'll never happen, but I think
guarding against the extra flight altitude, they actually created an
even greater offensive ballpark because it's just so darn big. Now,
talking about analytics, the Marlins are doing something on the mound, Joe,
which is this is crazy to think the Marlins are
(25:19):
throwing more breaking pitches than they are fastballs. Let me
say that again. The Marlins are spinning the baseball more
than they're throwing fastballs. They're throwing thirty five percent fastballs
and they're throwing thirty nine percent breaking pitches. I've never
heard of anything like that. We all know that you
know fastball usage has been declining as people want swing
(25:42):
and miss and spin and pitch shaping. They're being done
in labs. Great. We all know that major league average
is thirty percent breaking balls. It's throwing thirty nine percent
breaking balls. Is it working well? I don't know. The
Marlins are eight and seven, they're nineteenth in ERA, and
they have the second highest walk rate in Major League Baseball.
(26:02):
Give me your take on a team Joe throwing more
spin than fastballs.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Just keep throwing it, man, They're going to make a
lot of mistakes with it. It's going to go far,
that's the big thing. I mean, I'm watching more and
more you get this kind. Guys have thrown ninety five
plus that are not proud of their fastball. Makes no
sense to me whatsoever. I still believe and I'm watching it.
I'd like to have a list of who really hits
(26:29):
that high velocity with any kind of consistency. And again,
part of it is they're going for the breaking ball.
I guess they're going for the punch off from the
very first pitch. I know Peter, Peter Bennix. I worked
with Peter with the Rays a couple years ago. It
was part of the analytical renaissance, or actually the nouveau
concept in baseball. So there's a ton of that going
(26:51):
on down there, and it's all analytically driven, all of
that stuff, there's no doubt. So this is one of
those things you got to wait and see.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
But I know this.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I mean, I watch and when the video compon of
MLB app I'll go back to the video because I'm
really curious about home runs and what kind of pitch
it was that went out of the ballpark. The other day,
Joe Odell, who I love, hit two home runs. Both
were hanging, breaking balls gone because of course you want
to throw Joe to Chase. I get that, you know,
(27:20):
Troty breaking ball down and away home run to right
field at Steinbrenner as an example, I'm always interested to
see who's really who's really turning around some gas writer
who's turning around ninety five plus, I'd love to see
what that looks like. I still believe, big believer in
a well located fastball still the very best pitch. And
(27:41):
when you do that and speed up the bat and
then here then here comes the breaking ball, et cetera.
So it's their cocktail it's their analytical cocktail that tells
them to do this last. But didn't we talk about
the Red Sox being very much into that also, So
this is part of the you know, the fall of
the leader kind of thing. So we'll see how it
all plays out. But I listen, I think you throw
(28:04):
too many of those. The big righty for the Red Sox,
how cutt he says.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Name, yeah, tenor helk.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I watched him yesterday or the day before. He got
his butt lit up and he kept throwing soft stuff.
And what's happening with his He's turning his pitch over
and his getting really flat, flat to the left hander's barrel,
flat to the point where the righties can get to it.
So it's hard to throw that many of those kind
of pitches successfully and really count on that to be
(28:32):
my liver die pitch.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
So anyway, I'm not into that quite frankly.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I think it'll come back and bite you at some point,
or it will sooner rather than later.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
I believe, like we always talk about it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I love the word balance, but I still believe a
well located fastball is still the best pitch.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
I love the changeup off of that.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I like a really a real curveball off of that,
and then if you have to go to split or whatever,
please do. But cutter, Cutter's become so cutter could be
just a bad fastball if it's not put in the
wright spot, especially against the guy that as like a
slider batspeed. So I could go on and on about this.
I'm just curious. I'll continue to watch it.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Thanks. I didn't even realize that.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, it's pretty amazing. You mentioned the Red Sox. Last
year their er actually was a full run higher in
the second half of the season. The kind of caught
up with them leaning on breaking pitches so much, and
this year they're not throwing as many. They're throwing a
few more fastballs. Some of that is Garrett Crochet, who's
got one of the best fastballs in baseball. And last year,
by the way, was the first year in recorded history
that pitchers threw more cutters than curveballs. If you go
(29:34):
back ten years, curveballs outnumbered cutters two to one, and
last year there were more cutters than curveballs. So people
are in love with that cutter. But we'll see. We're
keep an eye on the Marlins because that's just a
staggering number to me to throw just thirty five percent
fastballs as a staff, and it's tied for the youngest
staff in baseball with Tampa Bay. Now let's talk about
(29:55):
here's a question for you, Joe. You've been to so
many ballparks, obviously, what would you regard as the best
at mishp sphere in terms of just energy and vibe
and just a fun place to watch a baseball game.
What ballpark would you go to?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
There's a lot of groups that are a lot of
ballparks that are in second, third, and fourth and fifth place,
but Riglely, by far from me, was the best atmosphere
I've ever ever witnessed. Even walking into the ballpark, you
park your car right across the street in the left
field line. There's a firehouse out there, and people would
be lined up, I mean lined up as you walked
(30:35):
into the joint every day. And then you know, just
even batting practice, it's it's vibrant there. We played a
makeup game against the Indians on a Monday at one pm.
Don't remember the exact year, Lester versus Kluber. Forty thousand
folks at the game. It's just different. It's still the best.
I think it's one of the best venues in all
(30:56):
of sports.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Yeah, very good answer. By the way, I can't argue
about that. You got the Ballhawks out in the street
there on Waveland during beep. And I always tell people that,
you know, if you have a friend or a family
member who's not a baseball fan, maybe if they're from
another continent, right, and you want to give them full
taste of what watching a Major League Baseball game is like,
bring them to Wrigley Field. Bring them to a day game.
(31:20):
Especially night games are cool, but there's nothing like a
day game at Wrigley Field. That being said, I think
people Joe really have to understand what is going on
in San Diego because that place has become a huge
baseball town and it is such a fun vibe in
that ballpark. Monday night in April, that's like the worst
(31:43):
time for Major League Baseball teams to draw crowds, right,
you still have school in session, you know, other places
on the East Coast, obviously you're dealing with weather, not
really the case in San Diego. But anyway, Monday night
and San Diego, the Padres draw their usual forty seven
thousand at Peco Park. That place is rock and the
(32:05):
Padres started out winning their first eleven games at home
eleven and zero, best record in baseball thirteen and three.
It is an incredible vibe and you can see Joe
and I know your Cubs team did this as well,
the team responding and thriving off the energy in the ballpark.
You know, home and road records sometimes fluctuate, but I
(32:26):
think there's a true home field advantage right now. It's
not so much making things miserable for the other team.
It's just uplifting for the players to play in front
of forty seven thousand last night. That don't need to
be told when the cheer. It's just a great, great
baseball vibe going on in San Diego.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
First of all, it's a gorgeous ballpark. They did Oh
my god, the location, everything about that place is first
class ballpark, dejure everything about it. But the thing that
really I wrote the word as you were describing the
fans of the fan base and what's going on there,
I think of cult. I've always believed there's kind of
like a cult falling with the the powerful Pods, even
(33:06):
when they had not been doing well. There's a certain
dedicated group. It's rather a large, dedicated group. It's almost
like as stuck in the sixties seventies kind of a group,
which I love because that's when true baseball fans, the
result residue if your dad, your mom, really real strong
baseball fans growing up in the post World War two era,
it's kind of like got this thing. And I've always
(33:28):
liked that about it. You'll see them coming out. They
support their group. They are very they are very vocal.
And then the other thing they do with the military
down there really creates another level of excitement and something
that they're all proud of and they should be. We're
just ballpark cult following, and right now there's just actually
got some pretty good ball players. They've done a wonderful
(33:51):
job of being patient and they put this thing together.
I think Machado's really understanding what leadership's all about. And
Tatista as well. And the shortstop is solid also, and
there's others of course. But and they got you know,
some pretty good pitching too, but Cole following, yep.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
And a gorgeous ballpark.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, they got a good thing going on. They brought
in some real glue guys. Your buddy, our buddy, Jason Hayward,
Jose Iglesias. You know, they've done a nice job filling
in the roster with glue guys. And that includes Gavin Sheets,
by the way, and this is pretty cool. The crowded
San Diego has developed a chant for Gavin Sheets. When
(34:31):
he comes up, they chant, Holy sheets, Holy Sheets.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
There, you go, something like that is born of like
utilization of some kind of a product that illicits creativity.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, they got that going on, there's no question about that.
And what they also have their secret sauces. Their bullpen.
Oh my goodness, Joe. Their bullpen this year has started
four and oh well one point five to one area
the best bullpen in baseball. They've allowed thirty two hits
in almost sixty innings. Their offense is relentless. So what's
(35:10):
happening here is the bullpen just locks games down and
gives their offense a chance to come back in the
games that they don't have a lead. Mike Schuld does
an amazing job with that group as well. So I listen,
it's still the Dodgers who you have to start with
in that division. But San Diego to me, looks like
they are really really dangerous.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
The whole group, right, I mean, you got the Giants
playing really well. Also, I mean the Diamondbacks always lurk
and then they spring eventually.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
It is. It's a very interesting group, you know what.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
The Dodgers just there's got that baseball malaise going on
a little bit right now. Great start, almost like some
baseball boredom right there, right now. They'll get over it.
They'll get over it almost. It's almost like somebody has
to get on top of them for them all to
wake up. But you got to be careful because if
this team the bullpen, when you get bullpens like that,
(36:03):
they could shut down anybody. But I do like the
Giants too. I like the vibe with the Giants right now. Also,
I think what Buster's done up there, It just seems
as though they've they've kind of again turned back the
clock in a good way. Bowmel is really probably managing
his best version of himself right now because he's more
comfortable with the vibe up from the front office on
(36:24):
down and the Giants to have this gritty way of
playing baseball. I've always been a fan. I mean, Boach
had been there back in the days in the National League,
go all the way back to Mays, McCovey, all the
way up to the President, there's always been a little
bit not dirty in a sense dirty, they're just down
and dirty. They play it hard, they play it right well, Clark,
all these guys. So they got this thing. They got
(36:44):
this thing. Maybe it's representative of the city that they
play in. So I would not discount the Giants right now.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I like what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
It's going to be very interesting n West during the
entire season.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
I think it's a great point about the Giants, And
you're right, they have gotten back to the way they
played under Boach, which is, you know, good fundamental baseball pitching, defense.
They're a much better base running team. And this is
the team that obviously Buster Posey, you know, grew up
with as a player, and that's kind of the imprint
he's putting on this team. The other thing there have
Joe's stability. You know, the old group there in San Francisco,
(37:18):
they were moving roster pieces all the time, changing the
lineup every day, they were chasing every incremental edge that
they could. There was just this disruption that was going on.
You know they loved guys with options in the bullpen.
They go up, they go down. Buster and bow Mel
now are really emphasizing stability, not doing a whole lot
with the lineup on a day to day basis. I
(37:38):
know the first two weeks, two and a half weeks
of the season, they had no roster changes. And this
team is digging it. This team is leaning into stability
and finding out who they are as a group. So
I think they've got not just momentum, Joe, but they're
really starting to establish a culture of who they are.
And when you win games while doing that, you become
(37:58):
really dangerous.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
They know who is in charge.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
It's pretty simple, and I would I don't again, I
would believe that. It sounds as though bow Mill's able
to respond to the players needs, wishes, whatever directly without
having to consult.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
That's what I kind of get from it. I would
have to believe.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Buster, growing up the way he did in the game
would kind of empower his manager to be able to
make some of these decisions where he doesn't have to
be checked in with all the time. It's got to
be that kind of trust going on. So there's it is,
it's it's refreshing to see.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Right now. I'm really pulling for them for a.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Lot of different reasons, but because I do like Bobby
a lot. But it's let's just see how it all
plays out, because it it just reeks in a good
way of tried and true and they're playing really well.
They just did a nice job with the Yankees. They've
done a nice job in general. So it's going to
be a really fun ride in the nl West this year.
And I the way it's broken, it looks so easily
(38:52):
to think that Dodgers are gonna just, you know, boat
race the whole thing again.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
There's there's too many suitors right now that really are
looking pretty good.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
I agree. Hey, we're going to take a quick break,
and when we get back, I want to ask Joe Madden,
three time Manager of the Year World Series Champion about
something I call manager speak. We'll do that right after
this Welcome Back to the Book of Joe podcast. And
(39:29):
the other day Aaron Boone was talking about Carlos Redon.
I don't know if you caught it, but he got
beat by hanging a curveball to Jung Hu Lee. It's
probably I don't know his fourth or fifth best pitch,
that he'd flip up something there a little bit differently,
and Verdonna has been hurt by home runs this year
a big time. Aaron Boone after the game said he's
(39:49):
throwing the ball exceptionally well. Now Carlos Redon's velocity is
down two miles an hour. He leaves the American League
and earn runs allowed and home runs, and his walk
rate is a career worse. I know you have to
back your players and listen. Some of his underlying numbers
are good. He's still getting some swings and misses, and
(40:12):
strike out rate is fine. But I know sometimes Joe,
a manager, even especially after a loss, has to say thing.
It brings me back to Bobby Cox. I remember Tom
Glavin telling me that after a game, Glavin thought he
threw the ball terribly. Bobby Cox would always have his
back to such an extent. Tom would say, was he
watching the same game I just pitched. Give me your
(40:36):
take on what you have to present to a media
as a manager without being you know, deceitful if you will.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Right, Well, he did say he's throwing well, so maybe
like he's he sees the ball out of his hand,
but he's not pitching very well obviously, you know, so
you're always playing with semantics sometimes. One of my main
tenants was when addressing the media, was he to both
be Jack Ryan and you have to defend your brood
all the time. So being Jack Ryan would be being
(41:04):
upfront and honest as quickly as I possibly could, because
when you were able to do that, whatever the situation was,
you take all the heat out of it. So like
before the media would come in room, I talked to
Rick Vaughan or Peter Chase or Adam Chosco. We would
talk about in advance, because that's how this thing works.
(41:25):
And I'd always say, I'm going Jack Ryan. I'm shooting
it straight up and to be very honest with them,
and I'm going to tell them the truth because all
the time, a lot of times you'll get the word
from upstairs that they want you to say this or that,
especially when it came down to an injury potentially because
they always thought that it would impact potential trades and
things to that nature.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Whatever, So go Jack Ryan.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Jack Ryan famously protagonist in a lot of the Clancy novels.
When confronted with a situation with the presidents. Not only
was the president's friend was involved in a big drug
bust in or death in the Caribbean. Not only was
not only was he one of my friends, but he
was one of my best friends. Go right through it,
and that's what I chose to do. The other part
(42:05):
is to and this is where he gets tricky, to
praise publicly and criticize privately. And that's what Boonie was
doing right there. So maybe you know, Boonie's just trying
to take the heat off him a little bit, and
that's what you.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Try to do.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
And maybe then afterwards you got to go talk to
the guy, you know, be a little bit more blunt
with him. I read that years ago and I still
abide bye to praise publicly, criticized privately, But when it
comes down to a general group, the team in general,
but not specifically to one particular player, and that would
be to go Jack Ryan and just be very very
(42:38):
upfront and honest about it, because that totally disarms the
situation as opposed to add fire to the to the
to the embers.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yeah, it's really interesting what's going on with Radon. I mean,
obviously he was a fastball slider, guy big time through
most of his career, and just two years ago, for instance,
sixty percent for seemers and sliders, he's down with thirty
nine percent. They gave him a two same this year. Again.
The fastball velocity, which ninety five point four last year,
(43:08):
is down to ninety three point seven. I don't know
whether this is by design, whether they see that just
the arm strength isn't there in terms of foreseen velocity.
But he's a different kind of pitcher. We'll see how
it plays out. And the Yankees have the least velocity
of any staff in the major leagues. And listen, they
lost Garrett Cole, they lost Louise Heel, Clark Schmid is
(43:30):
just coming back. I get it. They're down three starting pitchers,
but this is a team that leads the league and walks.
They're also very high in strikeouts, by the way, but
their average velocity is just ninety two. Average below in
the major leagues is ninety four. So it's a different
kind of Yankee staff. But I'm really curious to see
how Rodain plays out here, if he's going to continue
(43:50):
to just, you know, kind of sit and coast. At
ninety three ninety four, we're not seeing the ninety sevens
and ninety eight is the way we we did for years,
the high four seam fastball, the arm angles a little
bit lower, it'd be transitioning to a different pitcher. Maybe
it's just April. I don't know, but I tend to
reserve judgment Joe in April because the weather tends to
(44:11):
be really bad and it's tough for pitchers, especially power pitchers,
to really find their stride early.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Totally agree.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
I mean, it's not time to really get upset about anything.
One of my other tenants was that I always believe
that adrenaline plays early in a baseball season and then
real players play after that. It's normally like a two
to three week window for me. So you're going to
see ascending teams, teams that really need to get out
there quick and prove themselves that they're they have talent,
(44:39):
of course, and you're going to see that, and then
like the Dodgers, for instance, who are really really good.
Maybe a little bit more pedestrian right now. So I
used to when evaluating players, specifically guys that historically have
never hit like three hundred, are never hit for power whatever,
and all of.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
A sudden they are. Give it a little time.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Let's see how this plays out over a period of
time as opposed to the guy that always hit for power,
always hit for a average. Really, like one of your
best players stinks right now. Just give it some time.
So adrenaline plays early and then after that real players play.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Yeah, I think I might have given you wrong numbers.
I'm renown in terms of his percentage. His fastball percentage
has gone from sixty percent to thirty nine percent. If
you combine it with the slider, he's gone from ninety
two percent to sixty seven percent. So he's a different pitcher.
I get it. But I like your theory, Joe, about
you know, letting things play out here early in the season,
because listen, you've seen the weather in the East and
(45:34):
the Midwest. It's been super cold and wet in a
lot of places. So make determinations at your own risk
this early.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Right It's just like your driver and you're trying to
hit the ball in Princeton right now with your driver.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
It's going to it's not going anywhere.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
It can't. It can't.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
It's too cold, it doesn't want to, and plus the
winds down here in Florida, Oh my god, it's like
a wind tunnel down here. It's one of those things
you got to learn how to do. You got to
learn how to play into the wind. Easy right when
it's breezy. Go easy. When you try to do it
too hard, the balls is scattered all over the place.
And same thing in baseball. They got the wind blown
in your face. You're swinging harder. It's just it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Man.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Wind and weather. Probably wind. Cold and wind are the
two factors in all sports. When you talk about guys
that handle the ball. There's a quarterback in football, pitcher
in baseball, even you know hitter with the have hitting
the ball with the bat that's going to sting. Just
give a little time, man, Your can's got to warm up,
Your muscles have to be looser. And even psychologically, man,
(46:33):
when that winds blown in your face all the time,
it presents differently, and then all of a sudden your
mechanics may break down because you get too quick or
try to do things too hard.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Well, Joe, we as we tend to do here have
been all over the map. So I'm going to rely
on you. I don't know where you're going here to
end this edition, to the Book of Joe. But you
always end appropriately and interestingly. So what do you got today?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
You brought up the word courage earlier, who's should have returned? Yeah,
exactly began right, and I think that's where I begin,
and nice because I was thinking about him and what
he had done there obviously, so I was researching a
little bit of different thoughts that I had. And this
comes from Thucidadise through Sydides, a former Greek dude, and
(47:18):
he wrote, the secret to happiness is freedom, and the
secret to freedom is courage. And you got to me,
you're never going to accomplish all that you want to
accomplish unless you conquer our fears. And the fears are
like we create them ourselves. I mean, we put ghosts
or whatever around every corner and we shy away from it.
(47:40):
And then with that and the secret to freedom is courage.
And then it made me think about something else. And
he didn't even realize that Churchill had said this, But
courage is the quality that guarantees all others.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
I've always loved that one.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
And so it took a high level of golfing courage
for what McElroy did when it came to Churchill, the
courage you demonstrate it was, you know, having the England survive.
I mean there's different levels of thinking regarding this, but
it comes down to that one thing that permits you
courage is the quality that guarantees all others courage, fearlessness, empathy,
(48:15):
whatever you want to describe as the other qualities attach it.
I think about those other qualities we have as humans,
and with the courage really guarantees that this other quality
can be present. So I thought that and like we
talked about earlier, his way that they demonstrate it by
just putting his burying his face into the turf there.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
Man, I'm curious how to see how he plays.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, Joe, because I
feel the same way. I feel like you saw that
outpouring of emotion. And does this free him up now
to be even better or does it satisfy him now?
And he's got this feeling of I did it, and
he could take a foot off the pedal. It'll be
interesting to see where he goes. What do you think.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
I don't think you satiate it at all.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
I think he's one of those guys think about He's
one of about five sixth dud's ever to win all
the Grand Slam things. So that's Jordan, that's Bird, you know,
that's Brady. That's like something that nobody really does. And
those guys. My point is.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Jeter that they they never backed off.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I don't think he's capable of backing off, but I
do believe that this would be my guest that this
is going to permit him to breathe more easily in
more difficult moments.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
And also, you know, I.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Really believe if I had a bet, that the fluidity
within his body's gonna actually become even more fluid, if
that makes any sense. So heads up, and I read
about it today. I guess the upcoming tournaments, the golf
courses he's done really well at in the past, so
let's see what plays out. But I'm saying this is
like the lynchpin the freedom of movement for him right now,
(49:50):
and I'm really curious to see how this plays out.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Dangerous combination when you talk about that level of talent
with freedom at ease of mind. I can't wait to
see how it plays out. Absolutely, it's been fun, Joe.
We'll keep an eye on the Marlins. The padre and
the Rockies as things get better, or in the Padres case,
if they keep it rolling, and we'll see you next
time on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Thank your brother and McElroy too. See you, babe.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
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