3 & Out - Massive Mailbag - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on everybody? How are we doing?
Hopefully everyone's doing great. Wherever you may be, wherever you're

(00:23):
probably staying. Hopefully if you're in a cold area, staying warm.
If you're in a warm area, hopefully you get out
and get some sun. I'm actually gonna record this podcast
and go for a walk probably. I got about a
week and a half to lose a couple more pounds
so I can fit into that tuxedo that I have
to go tomorrow and get adjusted. So that's the reason

(00:44):
I'm not going to the combine. I also got to
pick up my marriage license and just things I couldn't go,
so getting married in I don't know, under fourteen days
here and could not make the combine this year. But
we will be reacting to the by It's why today
most people flying there. The stories and just the pace

(01:05):
of the NFL really picks up starting tomorrow through free agency,
so it's we're gonna have a lot to react to,
a lot of takes and thoughts on who knows. I mean,
we'll get stuff that we don't even see coming that
will be coming. So this is usually when the trades
and other things, at least the Uh, you know, kind

(01:25):
of the parameters to those deals get kind of discussed,
and honestly, sometimes they happen over the next week plus.
So let's buckle up, get ready. I'm excited. Also, we'll
throw in a golf podcast as well, so we will
have a lot of content this week. But today we'll
be mail bag only at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff
is the Instagram. Fire in those dms, get your questions

(01:46):
answered here on the show. We are going to We're
gonna have a long podcast today because I screenshotted a
million mail bag questions and I'm just gonna bang them
all out. So let's buckle up, let's get ready, and
again mail bag only, so you guys know the drill.
If you listen on Collins Feed, make sure you subscribe
to three and out. If you like a little thing
called YouTube dot com, we got a channel. Uh we're

(02:08):
not that far away from one hunter k. So we've
got to keep swinging our pick, keep grinding here and
go subscribe to that if you If you like the
video version of the podcast, because all of our content
is up there, and you know, as the spring evolves,
we will plan on doing more there as well separate
from just the podcast.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
And yeah, let's let's dive into some Let's dive into
the pod. This is a question now, big picture for
the Combine. This is you know, the season for scouts
honestly is year round. Uh. But during the fall, the
pressure isn't quite on them like the day to day
with the coaches. The scouting pressure really begins when the

(02:54):
college football season ends, all Star games, the Senior Bowl,
the Combine. That's when it really heats up. I mean,
your your college scouts have been looking into these players,
you know, if you've been in the same area for
a while, like if you've had the sec like you
have been following some top guys now for several years

(03:16):
and accumulating information, and then when they become draft eligible
and it's clear whether they're a junior and they're gonna
come out early or they're going to be a senior,
I mean, you're really really in depth in terms of
off the field. I almost I combined on and off
the field. Obviously, on the field, you know, the scouting
element of can the guy play canny not? How would

(03:36):
he fit, how does not? But in terms of gathering
information on from the work ethic standpoint from a football
i Q standpoint, from a character standpoint, that really kicks
off this week because the coaches now get involved. And
when you see these clips that come out of whatever
team's you know, meeting room with the player, and you

(03:59):
know whether Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter, or you name it,
I mean, any of the players at the combine, you
should know all the answers to the questions you're asking
them now, maybe if a guy has an off the
field issue, you're trying to close some loose ends. But
the amount of information the scouting department has accumulated for
your coaching staff and really your GM because most of

(04:21):
the gms aren't able to go into these schools, and
while they watch top guys throughout the fall, I mean,
their schedule is really really busy, so they, like the coaches,
are diving much more into the college guys. I would
say over the last month. Now, most gms probably watch
the top couple round guys throughout the fall, but this
is a time when they're really busy, but they're also

(04:43):
having to balance free agency. So obviously evaluating your own
team is extremely important. But you're going into the combine
about to talk to all the agents right who represent
your players, who represent the players you want. This is
a you know, for scouts. Even when I go last year,

(05:03):
like you can go out, have some cocktails, screw a
round like. This is not a screw around time for
the head coach. Maybe the head coach a little bit,
but definitely not the GM. You know, I mean, I know,
you know, the Howie Roseman's, the bread viaches. They are
constantly meeting with people. These are fifteen eighteen hour days
of meetings. And this is before any of the actual

(05:25):
on the field. Wark happens obviously from Friday to Sunday
with all the positions, but even during then, you're constantly
meeting with agents, talking with other gms about potential trades.
How often when a trade comes out over the next
week or two after the combine, then the in depth
article that said, oh yeah, John Schneider and George Payton

(05:45):
hammered out the Russell Wilson trade. This is when a
lot of trades kind of get rolling here. And obviously
there are some players who are on the block Deebo, Samuel,
there are other players who want to be traded, Miles Garrett.
There some wild cards you know Max Crosby, Micah Parsons.
So that is a GM's job is to balance all

(06:07):
this shit. I mean it is. It's the reason they
make seven figures. There's a lot on their plate, you know.
And as an area scout, you're just kind of focused
on your group and whatever your tasks are. As the
college director, you're just focused on, you know, the players
that are at the combine. As the pro director who's
also there, you're trying to help out the scouting staff,
but you're also very focused on any question your GM

(06:29):
has about a pro guy. Hey, this guy this, you
know Kellen Moore that they're ready to get rid of
player X on the Saints, or Aaron Glenn's not really
feeling this guy on the Jets. You're constantly balanced in
that as well. So all these teams that fired their
coaches and got a new coaching staff and a new GM,
like you better be balls deep, no pun intended on

(06:52):
their roster because they're players at any moment like, yeah,
we're gonna get rid of this guy. He doesn't fit
our scheme. And same goes for teams that have new coordinators.
Maybe a guy who used to fit no longer fits.
So this is just I mean, whatever industry you're in,
you know, whether you have certain weeks that are a
big convention week that is when a lot of business

(07:14):
gets done. This is probably the busiest week because this
is not just on the phone and text messages and emails.
This is a lot of person to person, you know, breakfast,
coffee meetings, lunch meetings, dinner meetings, just NonStop meetings if
you're the decision maker. So getting asked this question about
been watching a lot of Howie Roseman since the Super

(07:36):
Bowl contents at the Super Bowl, I love the behind
the scenes aspect of the GM. I know you spend
some time in Philly and was wondering if you could
give the behind the scenes of what the day to
day is the GM doing during the season and during
the off season. You know, during the season, at least
in my experience, there was a lot of you're constantly

(07:56):
working ahead. So any team that you would play, let's
say the Eagles are playing the Titans, right, especially an
uncommon opponent. You know, how he back again he might
have changed his strategy, but would try to watch clips
a couple games on their free agents so he could
have a feel and a grade on their free agents.

(08:18):
He would also during the week try to bang off
some draft players, some highly graded players in the upcoming draft.
And then on constantly working with your coach. If a
guy's injured, do we need to bring guyn a practice squad,
any issues you have with players, agents, contracts. I mean,
they're just constantly stuff coming up, Constantly working with the

(08:40):
trainer about injury statuses, constantly dealing with I would say,
anything within the building, communicating with your scouting staff on
the road. So it probably changes from team the team,
but trying to get ahead because once the season ends,
you can't just watch every free agent, right, you can't
just watch every draft pick. Now you can go back

(09:02):
and do more work, but you would like to lay
a groundwork during the fall of banging out all the
free agents, banging out most of the top draft picks.
And then as a GM, you're constantly working with your
coach about the week to week, when a guy gets injured,
guy gets in trouble, helping them out is any way possible.

(09:23):
And then obviously, like we just talked about once, there's
like a pretty clear process. Obviously, if you make the
Super Bowl, you're not going to the Senior Bowl. But
ninety percent of the time when you're not going to
the Super Bowl, I guess unless you're Veach, even how
he's been a two of three, you know you're going
to the Senior Bowl. You're banging off all those guys,
You're starting to meet with agents, and then there's just
a process that leads right through to you know, free

(09:45):
agency becomes before the draft. So while the combine is
extremely important, you basically get sixty interviews. You have gone over,
you know, probably for the Eagles and the Chiefs over
the last ten days, who you want to interview you
at the combine in those fifteen minute meetings. So you've
put that together. You have kind of put together ideas

(10:06):
with your scouting staff about pro guys who on your team.
So if you're Howie, do we want to try to
keep Milton or Mackai Becton, or how we're going to
handle the Zach Bond situation. I've gone over with my
pro department, who are other options if we're not able
to keep these guys? What their value is relative to
the rest of the market, Like, is Zach Bond gonna

(10:28):
get fifty million dollars on the open market? Because there
are any linebackers available. Same thing with Beckden, like is
someone going to give him a multi year contract? So
you basically have met you know, ideally, if if your
team had not ideally because you don't want to lose
in the playoffs, but if you hadn't made it for
you would have this all mapped out weeks ago. But
for you know, Veach and Howie, they've probably had to

(10:49):
kind of hit the ground running the last couple of
weeks of doing all that. So when you come to
the combine, basically the next two weeks are free agency.
I mean it kind of unofficially starts this week trades signings,
gauging the market. So you're just you're just extremely busy
that way, and you're just constantly working with your crew

(11:10):
of like your college guy and your pro guy, whoever's
at the top of the department, any questions you have,
and then those guys go down to their lower guys.
It's just information flying, so right now, I mean the
number one job of a GM over the next couple
of months is accumulating information and then being able to
take that information and put it into a market value. Like, Okay,

(11:32):
we have all this information we think this is going
to be worth this, and look at the Eagles last year,
We're like, well, we're kind of thinking the running backs
are undervalue. We get Saquon Barkley for ANER thirty million dollars.
So that that right now, that is just a huge
part of all these GM's jobs. Question for the mailbag.
My friend is getting married in a couple of months
and asked me to be his best man. Congratulations. I'm

(11:54):
planning the bachelor party and he told me he doesn't
want to do Las Vegas. Where would you choose for
a good bachelor party? Same vibe as Vegas, but would
be would be nice, just not as expensive. Thanks. Also,
are you having a bachelor party? I'm getting married in
two weeks, so I didn't have a bachelor party. One.

(12:15):
I'm older, I've been to a million you know, most
things I want to do in life I've either had
a chance to do or I'm pretty confident will over
the next couple, over the next couple decades. And just
the way I got married right before football seat or engaged,
I just wasn't gonna I didn't have a weekend to spare.
You know, someone's got to pay the bills around here

(12:37):
and which sucks, but also like it wasn't that big
a deal to me. I think, uh so, I think
the key to a bachelor party. Like when you say Vegas,
now Vegas, I read an article and I think of
the Wall Street Journal. Vegas is actually extremely more expensive
when I was in college, and this is, you know,
twenty years ago now, like you could go to Vegas

(12:58):
for pretty cheap and you could have a really really
good time for not very much money. This article was
actually just specifically on the Fountain Blue. But like, Vegas
is kind of hurting because their price points have gone
so high that people are just like, especially gambling is
legal huge part, like especially for guys that go to
Vegas to sports gamble where I can place a bet

(13:18):
on DraftKings from right here, and the prices of dinners
and everything has just gone up dramatic. I remember scouting
and I'd stay in Vegas a lot, just because it
was kind of central to southern California, Arizona and the
Utah schools, which BYU and Utah had a bunch of
prospects at the time. And I remember you could stay
at the Marriotte for like fifty nine to ninety nine

(13:39):
and obviously inflation times have changed. But Vegas is really expensive.
But I got news for you. Most fun places are
pretty expensive. Like you could come to Scottsdale and have
equally as good of a time. There is a casino
talking stick. You can get an airbnb, you could play golf,
but like it's not cheap. You know you're not going

(13:59):
to be able to do this on a bargain deal.
I would say the one thing you got to be
careful of is, you know, when you get a bunch
of people together, the dinners can be complicated and if
you go to a nice steak dinner. It all also
depends on where you guys are at in your financial situations.
Like if most people are in their twenties, you know,
give or take, everyone's around the same kind of level

(14:23):
money wise. Maybe there's one dude that's just crushing. It's like, God,
this guy's making what we're all making, like seventy grand.
But I think the older you get, when you find
yourselves in situations like this, especially when you get my age,
you can get huge discrepancies with earners. You know, you
can get a couple company owners and a couple guys
that are, you know, really struggling, and then that's where

(14:44):
I can kind of get out of whack. Ideally people
just take care of other people, but it can be complicated.
So listen. I'm a West Coast guy. I've never I
guess I went to a bachelor party in Nashville back
in twenty eighteen. That was actually pretty sweet. You go
to Nashville again, Nashville's pretty expensive now, so I think
i'd recommend Scottsdale, But again it depends, I don't know where.

(15:07):
If you planning on going to Vegas, maybe you live
on the West coast, but I think you gotta be
just these parties now. If you want to go to
a club at night, you know, if you want to
do something kind of fun, it's probably not going to
be cheap relative to what you have in your mind
that it used to be. But it's one of those
situations that you know you'll look back as you get older.

(15:28):
It's like, whatever, if your budget was a thousand and
you spend fifteen hundred, you're not going to lose sleep
over it as time goes on. So I would say,
if you're the best man, just enjoy yourself. My brothers,
we went to Bandon Dunes. That was pretty fun. Actually,
I need to go back. I hope that's answer your question.

(15:49):
Lifelong Saints fan, I went to games when folks wore
paper bags and we were known as the Aints. A
lot of kids listening to this I can't even relate
to that. I lived through the breeze years. What do
we need to recapture the glory? Well, uh, Sean Payton
and Drew Brees. I think it's pretty clear. Like you
guys won. You had a big time head coach and

(16:12):
you had a Hall of Fame quarterback. So if I
tell any team that you are going to get a
big time head coach and a Hall of Fame quarterback, like,
you're gonna be in pretty good shape. And I just
think you're gonna need Kellen Moore to be a top
twelve coach and you're gonna have to find a quarterback.
And whether he can just resurrect Derek. I mean, Derek's

(16:33):
not the answer to be Drew Brees, but you know,
if he can just be solid, like he has played
on playoff teams before, so can you get better production?
You gotta keep him healthy. He's been banged up out
of Derek because if you can, like I would say
the Saints Division, I got a buddy on the staff
who actually thinks they're better than people think. You know,

(16:54):
they had so many injuries, they're probably not as good
as they were those first couple of weeks. But I
picked him to win the division last year. Now clearly
was wrong. But you know, I think ideally you get
Kellen Moore as some version of just one of the
good offensive coaches. You know, can he be dynamic young
offensive coach. We've seen a lot of them over the years,

(17:15):
and they have resurrected franchises. The Niners were a Joe
Kyle got their resurrect the franchise. The Rams were even worse.
Sean McVay resurrect the franchise. The Vikings actually had a
lot of success under Zimmer. But clearly Kevin O'Connell's a
good coach. Lafleur is a good coach. Like if he
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Speaker 1 (19:17):
I know you were a scout, so did you have
an expertise on a certain position? Additionally, what makes certain
positions risky to draft? Like wide receivers in the first round.
I did not have an expertise. I would say most
times when you know, I don't know how it works
for other sports. But if you just are the West
Coast scout or a pro scout, you evaluate every position. Now,

(19:38):
like anything any business, you are better at certain things
than others, right, So you are more comfortable doing certain
things than you are. You know some and some people
excel in those things that you're weak at. And it's
no different than evaluating positions. Right. Some people are just

(19:58):
better at evaluating the line of screen image are worse
evaluating skill guys. Obviously, the quarterback is challenging. There are
very very few people that can do it. I always
thought the defensive backfield, corners and safeties can be challenging
because you got a factor in. You know, it's easy
to evaluate their like physical characteristic, speed, athleticism, tackling, but

(20:22):
in terms of how you play in certain coverages like that,
that becomes very, very nuanced. And I never felt that
comfortable doing DBS, but most other positions, definitely the front
seven and anything offense. I thought it was pretty good
at NFL fan from London, big fan of the show,
have a question for the mailback. Do you think we

(20:44):
will ever see an influx of elite international players in
the NFL in the same way we've seen in baseball
and basketball. No, partly because you play baseball in Japan,
you play baseball in Southern America. I mean it's a
really big deal in a lot of places. Basketball, like,

(21:06):
they have a European League. I think Luca was the
MVP of the league. So we have a long history
now of these European basketball players excelling in the NBA
becoming Hall of famers. I mean, Dirk was an MVP.
It just has a long, long history because they play

(21:27):
in other parts of the country, and that is not
true for football. I mean think I would say the
best story right now in the NFL of an international player.
You could argue, ever, is Jordan Malata. He had never
played football before, so he was basically just evaluating him
off what he could be because he was enormous and athletic.

(21:47):
But if guys like that there was a football league
where they literally played football, even if the rules were
a little different, but it was still eleven on eleven,
I think there would be more of them. But it
doesn't parallel those other sports because they play them internationally, right,
It's like, why is historically golf? Right? Think how many

(22:07):
guys come from across the pond. Same thing with tennis.
To me, those the individual sports tennis, golf are a
lot like basketball and baseball. These other countries take them
really really seriously. I mean, Japan loves baseball like Dominican.
In some of these places they love baseball. Clearly in

(22:29):
Europe and certain countries, basketball is a huge deal. Spain, Australia,
some of these Eastern kind of European. Where's Serbia? Where
is that where Jokich is from? But like that's just
not true. In the NFL, I'm sure if we saw
some body types of dudes over in like Russia, it's like, yeah,

(22:50):
this guy probably could play like guard, but like, when
are you ever gonna find this guy? So I don't
think it'll ever be quite like that. As a Lions fan,
my number one concern next year is player health. The
Lions had what felt like an unprecedented injury situation in
the past few days. I've also seen some critiques of

(23:12):
the Minnesota wild medical staff that worked with the American
team at the Four Nations, given Charlie McAvoy and Matthew
Kachuck's injury potentially being mishandled. My question is this, what
sort of variation do NFL teams have among their medical staff.
Should a team like the Lions be examining their injury

(23:33):
prevention and recovery system or is it just bad luck? Well,
I would say two of the teams that I followed
the closest in football are the forty nine Ers and
the Philadelphia Eagles, and both teams over the course of
the last five or six years have blown people out

(23:53):
because of injuries. When it came to the medical staff, Now,
I think you could look at it. I mean the Eagles,
if I are Paul de Luca, who's the team doctor,
and brought it back and he was the doctor when
I was there, he was doctor for a long time.
They had a bunch of injuries. Someone had to, you know,
get the finger pointed at him. I think sometimes that's
an easy one to just blame the strength staff or

(24:15):
the doctor. I saw it with the forty nine ers.
It's like, well, maybe you just like tackle and practice
and it just wears on people. Again, I'm just guessing.
Or maybe it's just like you just had a flip
of a coin bad year, or like in any business,
there are people that are better at podcasting. There are
people that are better at finance. There are people in

(24:37):
the medical industry that listen, I don't know wherever you
live right now, there are certain doctors, like you want
to go to this doctor if you have a knee issue, Hey,
my back's hurting. This guy is the number one guy.
We basically talk about him like he's like the ace
pitcher for the Yankees, or he's like a star player
in basketball. That's how you talk about certain doctors. So
it's why would this be any different. There aren't an

(24:59):
unl limited amount of elite doctors, and certain areas of
the country have access to better ones, right like the
forty nine ers in the Rams like they got Stamford
and UCLA right in their back pocket. So in theory,
you would be like, well, we go to UCLA men
get their number one guy. What if they're number one
guy not that big a football fan doesn't want to

(25:19):
do it. So I've always thought it can be a
little mixture of both. Sometimes it's truly unlucky, and probably
certain hires are better than others, and certain people are
more talented at their field than others. But I think
big picture in football, listen, there's always been injuries in

(25:41):
the sport, like there have always been teams. You go
back to the fifties, you go to the eighties, you
go to the nineties that have had a year like
the Lions, where everyone gets injured. Now it does feel
on the whole like people get injured more now than ever.
I don't actually think it's even close when it comes
to hamstrings, when it comes to acl My theory didn't

(26:02):
go to medical school, just went to a couple of
state schools in California and watch a lot of football.
Is forever in football up till twenty eleven, you had
double days and you worked on your body playing football
on the field and guys worked out in the offseason,

(26:24):
but not nearly like they do now. And I would
guess there is some correlation of you've never played less football.
Most teams don't even more pads in the season, right,
but you train, you know you got I saw see
Christian McCaffrey on Instagram. He trains like three hundred and
sixty five days a year, and I think he's even

(26:44):
He's mentioned like, I probably got to lighten up because
you're training for football more than you're even playing. And
then in training camp, especially once you become a really
good player, teams are very hesitant with you in fairness
because I'm paying you thirty forty fifty million dollars a year.
Then I get to a game I don't really play
in the preseason. I get to a game or it's

(27:05):
just full speed, full tackle, and I haven't done any
of that, like September tenth it starts, or whenever the
date is week one yet from the end of the season,
let's say January seventh or mid January. If I'm a
playoff team, I have not really played football, not to
the level in which the game yet. In fighting, for example,

(27:26):
you spar constantly I mean, look at hockey. The only
way to play hockey, and the PK Subahn's been going
on these rants is she's kind of got to play.
We're in football in trading camp. You can play football,
but you can do what they call thud or you know,
kind of two hand touchoff where it's like I impact you,
but I'm not taking you to the ground. That there

(27:48):
is a huge difference. And I've gone to a lot
of training camp practices over the last decade that which
is still like really impressive to watch, you know, Deebo
Samuel contact Fred Warner in the open field like it's
still a collision. If it was me or you, we'd
go flying. They hit each other and they keep moving.
We're in a game that would be a tackle. And

(28:08):
I just think that for a long period of time,
you played football in training camp and you trained the
callouses of your body, and that no longer happens. And
you can't convince me that that hasn't had I would
say a negative impact when it comes to injuries, more
than the doctor and more than the training question for
the pod. Last year, Sean Payton and the Broncos were

(28:30):
criticized by the national media for drafting Knicks. Heading into
the season, they were almost universally ranked as one of
the five worst teams in the league. However, they proved
the doubters wrong with a double digit winning season, a
playoff berth and thirty four total touchdowns for bo Nicks,
third most all time for rookie quarterback. It's good stat

(28:51):
I didn't know that. They will probably draft the tight
end to running back and dabble in the veteran wide
receiver pool this offseason. Do you feel like it was
just a flash in the pan or will they improve?
I've been saying this about the Chargers and the Broncos.
That is gonna be Peyton and Harbaugh's worst team. It's
gonna be their worst rosters. Their teams are going to

(29:12):
get better. So sometimes when you have a random coach,
like it turned out that one year with Brian dayball
flash in the pan. This is not a flash in
the pan for Jim Harbor and Sean Payton because you
look at their resumes, so you know, to take a
huge jump, you got to hit on a couple random
free agents. Sometimes you get lucky. I mean the Eagles

(29:32):
Zach Bond. No one saw that coming and including them.
So I think, uh yeah, you just there's some luck involved,
there's some skill involved, and then there's just some developmental
strides of your own guys and your own team. Like
can bo Nicks take a big step, because if you can,
you're in pretty good shape. Can Patrick's certain maintain his

(29:54):
level of play and be an elite player. You're a
good chef, can Benito said his name Benito? Just keep
dominating because you've got some core pieces, right, So, I, yeah,
I'd be pretty fired up if I was a Bronco fan. Eric,
longtime Seattle fan. Gino has an aggressive agent, and they've

(30:14):
asked for extension extensions and to rework deals after the
twenty two season and the twenty three season, which they
didn't get after the twenty four season. Fans don't think
he's gonna play on this old deal anymore. Three years,
seventy five million. It's a pretty good deal for the
Seattle and he'll hold out, okay, should we resign him

(30:37):
or go into free agency? He holds a large forty
four million dollar cap hit this year. Okay, good question.
Clearly they're not gonna have Geno Smith on a forty
four million dollar cap hit. I'd have a hard time
resigning him to anything other than kind of the number
he's been playing on. Maybe make it a little bigger,
like can I give you like a two year, sixty

(30:58):
million dollar extension? Like I can't pay you forty fifty
million dollars? Can't do it? And I my big issue
this always happens like what will you do without him?
I don't know. We'll figure it out. We're not replacing
Brett far from his prime here. This isn't twenty seven
year old Joe Montana, Like, I don't know. I found

(31:19):
Geno Smith. I can figure it out. If we got
to take a step back, take a step four, will
do it. I think anytime that you get caught up
is like what will you do? I don't know? I
mean I found Geno Smith. I can find another Geno Smith.
So I think sometimes that people freak out about like
the middle of the road quarterback, like this is not

(31:41):
like what would you do without Joe Burrow? Or a
franchise would crumble? What would happen if Josh Allen disappeared tomorrow,
We'd be fucked. What would happen if Gino Smith held
out slash? We cut him Slash wasn't on our team
next year. I don't know. I'd be interested to find out, though,
especially when we're talking like this is a business, so
the cap hit the money kind of matters. Could I

(32:03):
get keep getting into business with Geno Smith? Who's betting
and I feel like I'm taking shots at him? Incredible
fucking story. I mean, his career was over, everyone had
written him off, and as Gino said, he didn't right back.
Clearly pretty high level cat kats. Some huge moments throughout
his career with Seattle kept them in the mix. They've
made the playoffs two out of three years, right, they

(32:24):
make the playoffs last year? No, they missed, but they
won ten games. Be interested to know what Mike McDonald
thinks about him. Love the show, Fellow Arizona transplant. Why
on earth do you think we the NFL consumer want
to listen to Aaron Rodgers? Well? I would include myself
in your WII He's just famous. Why does anyone want

(32:47):
to listen to any of these guys? Right? Why do
most guys get Why did Tom Brady get hired because
he's Tom Brady? If Aaron Rodgers got hired on TV,
why would he get hired because Aaron Rodgers one. I've
said this over and over, and I believe this too much.
It doesn't fucking matter after a game or two who's
calling the game right? So like Aaron Rodgers listen. Would

(33:08):
he piss some people off? Sure he would? Would it
probably not be as crazy as people would assume. Yeah,
he's clearly not going to go into broadcasting this year
because it looks like he's still gonna play. But I've
watched a lot of football over the last I don't know,
fifteen plus years. There are a ton of god awful announcers.

(33:29):
I promise Aaron Rodgers be fine. People think my Aaron
Rodgers take of him going to Amazon's crazy, I'm all
for it. I hope they hire him if he plays
this year next year. Glad you enjoyed the Four Nations
faceoff tournament. I was happy to see hockey get some
good coverage. I think it's the second best spot after
football and has been the best playoffs out of any sport.

(33:51):
Do you think hockey can take the number two or
three spot if basketball keeps trending down? Also, you should
check out the ASU hockey game. I went to the
Arena a couple yearyears ago when the Coyotes were playing
there and they played the Washington Capitals. I saw Ovechkin.
It's the only hockey game I've ever been to. I
would say no. And I think the problem is in

(34:11):
this country part of the reason we watch sports, right,
every sport I watch, for the most part, I've played
right like football, played high school football, basketball played growing up,
played pick up basketball, played up till like eighth grade.
I never played baseball past little league. But it's like

(34:32):
most people at one point in time play some sort
of organized baseball, golf. I still played it this day.
Even tennis, Like played a little tennis grown up. Even
in college, kind of messed around to get a work
out here and there. So most things that I have watched,
I have played in a lot of them, like on
teams or with other people, like in a semi serious environment.

(34:53):
And so when you think about people like football has
the most just because the quantity of people playing, but
baseball and basketball in this country, if you do play athletics,
you probably have dabbled either in junior high school or
junior high in those sports. So you are just going
to be more inclined to watch those where hockey it

(35:14):
is very, very dependent on the weather. So there are
areas that hockey's really popular right the Northeast, I would
say Michigan, Minnesota, the Dakota's where it's hard, Like hockey's
never going to be that big in the South, where
baseball and basketball and obviously football, but even like golf

(35:35):
are just going to be way bigger because young people
are going to play them, and I think that will
be a difficult thing for them to overcome. And I'm
with you. The NHL Hockey Playoffs, which I have loosely
followed over the years but I definitely was dialed in
last year, is fantastic. The energy, the effort. You don't
even really need to know like every rule like you

(35:55):
would in baseball, basketball, or football to really enjoy it.
Like I'm pretty simple to be entertained. I like violence.
I like effort when it comes to sports. Honestly, when
it comes to anything, Like if you have a violent show,
I'll probably watch. I've said this over and over, like
the what's the show with the dragons? Game of Thrones,
I'm not into that world. Like I don't really do

(36:17):
fake worlds that that's not my type. Television or movies like,
it just doesn't do it for me. You know, I've
never been a big like Darth Vader guy. I don't
even think I've watched bits and pieces of it over
the year. But obviously there's some of you guys are
die hard with some of that stuff. I'm not a
huge sci fi whatever fake world. Maybe it's not fake,

(36:37):
maybe it actually existed, even like alien type stuff. Like
not totally into but if you give me incredible fighting
scenes and obviously some sex scenes and some drama. Like
I was entertained by Game of Thrones. It didn't like
I wouldn't rank it as one of my top all
time television shows, but I knew culturally it was a
big deal, and I watched and I could at least

(36:58):
semi enjoy it because of fighting and sex. You know,
I think we're pretty easily entertained. And if you just
watch the hockey playoffs and people are fighting and people
are getting lit up, and you're just like, ah, this
is pretty, and the effort is elite. It's why we
like the NCAA tournament. The effort is elite. I don't
know anyone in college basketball beside Cooper Flack, but I

(37:18):
will watch a ton of the NC DOUBLEA tournament because
how much it means to the players. If it means
a lot to the talent, it's gonna mean a lot
to the consumer. So why regular season basketball? Like we've
tuned it out because the players don't care. So if
they don't care, why the fuck am I gonna care?
And in baseball I think they kind of care a

(37:38):
lot of the time, but the games don't actually matter.
What was the podcast you mentioned recently that had an
episode an education and the use of AI. I think
it was the All In podcast. They talk a lot
about AI, which a little over my head, but I
think it was the last one. Enjoy the pod. Congrats

(37:59):
on having Super Bowl winning GM and Andy Reid on
the pod last year. Would have had him on again
at the combine. I think we're gonna maybe try to
do like a Spring maybe some sort of Spring GM tour,
see if we can make that happen, get a sponsored
Corse Lighthller at me. My question relates to the recent
hiring of Kevin Potolo. I think I'm saying his name

(38:22):
right as the offensive coordinated Eagles. He's been an assistant
coach for several years but to my knowledge, has never
called plays. And it got me thinking, have you ever
seen or heard of an instance in which a coach
was considered a great play designer, but its an OC
or even a head coach failed as a play collar.
Seeing that each requires a unique yet different set of skills,

(38:46):
it feels like something that could happen from time to time.
I bet it happens a lot, I would imagine. Let's
use him as an example. He has been in the
NFL for a long time. I think I looked at
his resume. He'd been there, I mean for since the
late two thousands. I actually interned with the chiefs in

(39:10):
the business department in fall of seven, and he was
on the staff as like a young young assistant. I
mean you're talking seventeen years ago. So most guys, when
they've been in the NFL for a long time and
they work around good people, are gonna learn a lot
of football and be good like I bet a lot

(39:30):
of coaches who have been in the NFL as an
assistant coach. Whether you're a wide receiver coach, whether you're
running back coach, O line coach, D line coach, you're
in the league for a decade plus you're gonna have
pretty good knowledge of schematics. And I bet a decent
amount of them could draw a lot of sweet plays
on the whiteboard on a given week. Right we're playing

(39:51):
Team X, they do this, what would work against that? Well,
part of being a good play caller is like you
get you study for the test, and a lot of
people can study well. Then you get to the test
and like, things that you studied aren't exactly translating, so
you kind of got to be instinctive on the fly

(40:14):
and change in real time. And it's really intense. So
you actually have to have the cognitive ability to, like
everything you've studied put now forward, and then the ability
to like stay calm if it's not working and adjust
or change. And that's I mean, think about Belichick and Andy,
how like calm, cool and collected they are so like

(40:37):
part of the reason that they never panic one their
experience levels were made basically longer than everyone they're competing
against at this point. But like you start freaking out,
and you could use this in life, and I listen,
I I still have it in me, but I try
to be very careful with the hot temper with freaking

(41:00):
out about situations that don't go your way. You break something.
You can be around the house, it could be in
a relationship, it could be anything in life. You don't
think straight when you freak out, And I do believe
that some people get in over their head. If you
start freaking out, you're not gonna be good at the job.
And the job is really intense because you know a
lot of people are watching you. So yeah, I would

(41:23):
imagine we have a lot of good play designers who
are offer awful play callers because it's just it's just
too intense. Can you explain from a scout's perspective the
difference between a football player that is talented versus one
that is instinctive? And generally speaking, if you were a GM,

(41:44):
which would you be more likely to draft a less
talented but more instinctive player a more talented, less instinctive player. Well,
I think you could use talent as like sides, size
and speed. So you'll see this time of year, a
lot of guys like this wide receiver. He's six foot
four and he just ran a four to four flat.
But then you're like, well, he can't really ever locate

(42:07):
the ball down the field and his hands are kind
of iffy, so it's like he has physical gifts, but
his instincts are awful, and you could if he has
bad hands. Let's say he has good hands, so he
actually is really talented, but like contested catches, he doesn't
have great spatial awareness and it doesn't work. It happens
a lot with DB's right. They they fit all the measurements,

(42:31):
like this this corner six foot one's changed the directions. Elite.
He's an elite athlete. He's a big time talent. Yet
if you just throw a ball up and he's covering
a guy, he has no clue what's going on. D Lineman.
You see a lot of D linemen. It's like this guy.
This guy looks like Tarzan and then he plays like Jane.

(42:52):
Why because like his feel for like when to make
a move, his instincts playing the position. Think about most
of the good defensive linemen, their instincts are elite. Aaron Donald,
JJ Watt, TJ Watt, the Bosa brothers when they're healthy,
Khalil Mack like they're just natural. They have a good
feel for it in instincts, it's hard to quantify. It's

(43:13):
why you see some draft bus is because if you
don't have instincts to play a position, I say it's
all quarterback. You know, playmaking instincts. Mahomes is elite at it.
Jalen's pretty good at it when he's playing well. Josh
Allen's and Lamar they have elite instincts, So I ideally
you got to get both. But you can get by,

(43:35):
Like I can take a talented offensive guard and kind
of figure it out if his instincts aren't great. It's
hard to play linebacker. If you don't have good instincts,
it's impossible to play dB. I think if you don't
have good instincts and be good, you can get by
a wide receiver if you're really talented, because I can
kind of scheme you open. But instincts in football are
extremely important. Can I tell you about my friends at

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boost your confidence from head to toe with Mando Women's
Sports question for you, why doesn't the WNBA and soccer

(45:26):
play in smaller market cities without professional men's teams to
help drive ticket prices and interest. Basically play in cities
that have all the other minor league teams, and they
play in small arenas. Just talking with my wife about it,
it seems pretty obvious their games would be the event
in the city like Spokane, Washington or some shit. It's

(45:48):
a good question, I'll be completely honest. I've never spent
one second thinking about that. Now. I'm not a huge well,
let's face it, I don't watch any women's sports. I'd
say the most women's sports I've ever watched, beside life
team USA soccer maybe over the years, has been some
Caitlyn Clark playing hoops. But I've never thought about their
business model. Let's face it. I mean, the WNBA exists

(46:08):
because of the NBA. They have never in the history
their league pulled the profit. So like obviously in a
lot of industries, some businesses subsidize other parts of their business.
I would say most businesses like the WNBA could not
have gone on for three decades losing money while their
employees complained about not flying private and not making enough

(46:29):
money when they literally never generated any money now with
Caitlyn Clark boom, you would think they would have the
opportunity to make money, but then everyone in the league
is pissed off and thinks she gets too much gi
It's like, guys is just supplying demand and for whatever reason,
there is a lot of demand for her, and it's like, well,
she's a white girl. There have been a lot of
white chicks in the WNBA that you couldn't have paid

(46:50):
any fucking person I know to watch them dribble the
basketball one time, So it's like, I don't know, she's
just she reminded people of Steph Curry the way she played.
They're pushing back against it. So I actually think playing
in areas where there's for the WNBA, where NBA is
that means basketball should be popular in theory is probably

(47:11):
the right way to go. But I think WNBA, beside
Kitlin Clark has a lot of issues just because everyone,
like you could argue, if they hate on her, it
only makes her more popular. But what they experienced last
year was like, you guys are clueless, but I mean
they everyone in that business has literally never had to

(47:32):
make a profit to maintain their job, which wouldn't exist
for me, or you or most people you know. Three
decades in, I've noticed that player success in the NFL
depends a lot on external factors, coaching, scheme, supporting, cast,
team environment. As a Panther fan, I followed Bryce Young

(47:55):
and CJ. Stroud debate closely, and one thing I keep
hearing is that we'll vir truly know if Stroud would
have succeeded in Carolina the way he has in Houston.
It raises a bigger question. How do we determine whether
a player is capable of succeeding anywhere versus somehow whose
success or struggles is mostly a product of their situation.

(48:16):
For example, let's be clear, guys like mahomes Lamar Burrow
and Allen have transcendent talent, but when evaluating someone like
Bryce Young, how do we separate the individual ability from
the circumstances around him. On the flip side, we've seen
cases like Baker Mayfield, who struggled in certain environments but
has found success in the right system, and Josh Rosen
Josh wasn't good enough. It's a question that it will

(48:38):
never go away because we'll never be able to quantify it.
I think it's easy to go Patrick Mahomes would have
been Patrick Mahomes wherever. Probably not. Now, would he have
been good? Yeah, I would imagine he would have been
a long time starter and had a lot of good moments,
But he'd be the first to tell you. I got

(48:59):
extremely lucky that Andy Reid called me on draft night
and said, we are drafting you, Patrick, And then I
got there with Brett Veach, who was the driving force
and getting me drafted, who both guys were all in
on me. And it turns out that Andy Reid is
one of the greatest coaches of all time. And when
I started, they already had Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce

(49:20):
on the team. Like, there are things that you have
going for you. If I put him on the Carolina Panthers,
it probably wouldn't have gone as smoothly. Right. Lamar is
a good example. He's way better. I mean, he could
play anywhere now, but early on, like going to the
Ravens is a pretty good spot, especially as they adapted

(49:42):
and build an entire offense around him. It's like, would
Lamar Jackson have looked the same if he just would
have gone to the Miami Dolphins. I think we would
doubt that, But these are we can never who knows,
like how many points would prime Michael Jordan's score today,
I'm pretty sure average forty five. I think he'd average

(50:03):
a lot, right, It's like or a better example would be, like, well,
the entire league's gone small, what would like nineteen ninety
six Shaquille O'Neal do in the w not WNBA, fuck NBA.
It'd be a problem for people, right, But these are
this is what makes sports fun. We don't know the

(50:25):
answer to any of these, ever, it's incredible hypotheticals. Well,
we can talk till we're blue in the face, and
we will never get a resolution. There will never be
an outcome. Listen, one of my favorite topics, let's let's
redraft twenty fourteen. Okay, let's redraft twenty fourteen. In the

(50:47):
history of sports, there has never been an actual redraft
after the fact, like five years later, Well, if we
redrafted now Micah Parsons, Well, yeah, he went twelve and
he's on the Dallas Cowboy, So like, if we redrafted,
of course he'd go number two, but that's not happening.
Big fan from Canada been following since you were rocking

(51:09):
Titos with Haberman a few years back. I mean no disrespect.
I'm a Niner fan and always wondered what deal is
with the Bay Area serving softball questions to Kyle and company.
Guys ask certain questions, myself becoming a fan of Grant,
who's kind of like this polarizing media guy who's always

(51:32):
him and Kyle are always getting into it. So why
do you think the majority ash Shanny and company a
bunch of softball shit during the pressers. I think here's
the thing. The West Coast is not like Philadelphia or
New York or New England, where you go to every
press conference and it is a war zone. That is what,

(51:53):
not just the expectation, but that's what the consumer wants.
Getting into it constantly with Kyle or McVeigh or Phil
Jackson or Steve Kerr. It's just not the vibe out West,
never has been and it never will be. It doesn't
mean that there aren't tense situations that arise and there
aren't individuals who will do it. You know, Kawakami got

(52:17):
into it at the final press conference because he asked Kyle,
and he's buddies with Kyle about the special teams and
John and Kyle got so defensive about how they care
about special teams. It's like, guys, just because you draft
a kicker in the third round doesn't mean that you
care about special teams. We all go to practice, Kyle,
we know that you don't watch any of the special

(52:39):
team shit. I don't blame you. It's boring, but you're
the head coach and then the special teams always sucks
and you're like, well, we drafted a kicker, I we
put Deebo back there. Well great. It's not just about
putting players. It's about effort, right, how much effort do
you put into special teams? You like you just stand
there and like hold them accountable or are you off
fucking playing catch with Ayuk on the other side of

(53:02):
the field. Bullshit. So I just think that, yeah, I
mean you try. They just they're not used to it
on the West Coast, you know. Sometimes on the East
Coast too, like they'll like, okay, let's spar let's get
into it. Like the West Coast they'll just like kind
of shut you down. It's just not even as fun.

(53:22):
And I just really listen, having been in radio for
a long time, the West Coast consumer will not consume negativity.
They just won't like they will in Philly, in Washington,
in Detroit, in New York and Boston, like they kind
of year informed. The moment those teams start losing, the

(53:43):
ratings go way down, right, Like, obviously, if your team
wins Super Bowl, that's the best you can do. But
like in some places, if your team is awful, it
can be pretty good for business because the consumer kind
of likes it. That's not really in the West Coast
at all. It's like, yeah, I'm gonna go play golf,
I'm gonna go to beach. I'm just gonna go outside.

(54:05):
It's December and it's seventy five degrees, So I think
that plays a part in it as well. I'm from Winners, California,
No right where that is born and raised, right down
the street former sax State Hornet. There's been a lot
of talk about sax State moving into the PAC twelve
with the new stadium, nil money and coaching changes. You
got any insight into this, I don't understand the PAC

(54:32):
twelve's dead so they can keep the name Oregon State
in Washington State. I know you guys got a lot
of pride, but adding Fresno State, San Diego State, Boise State.
You're just the Mountain West calling yourself the PAC twelve.
So SAX State. If you're Sax State and you can
essentially get into the Mountain West, you do that in

(54:52):
a heartbeat. I don't know anything about like your nil money.
I know Chefter put out that they had fifty million dollars,
but the PAC twelve does not exist. They can call
themselves that. You're not the PAC twelve. You're the Mountain
West with Oregon State in Washington State. Which it sucks
for you guys. You guys kind of got screwed because

(55:13):
you guys did care about all this stuff. But big picture,
you probably belonged playing Fresno State and Boise State in
San Diego State. That probably feels right. Honestly, no, it
does feel right, But you're not the PAC twelve. In
this notion too, that the PAC twelve would get a
bigger television deal than the Mountain West, it's the same thing.

(55:35):
Part of the reason that you would get a big
deal with the PAC twelve is that you had Oregon
and sc and Arizona. Well, those teams are gone if
Andrew Luck never retired, So if your sack state all
four it I would get I would be fired up
if I got involved with them. If Andrew Luckett never retired,
would he be neck and neck with Mahomes or would

(55:57):
he be at the top of Tier two with Allen
Jackson in Burrow or would he be somewhere else? Uh?
I mean I don't know this Again, this is what
makes sports the fun great hypothetical. I think Andrew luck
was every bit as good as these guys are listening, Like,

(56:18):
I think he if he was with the team that
could build a team that he could have won a
super Bowl? Now would he have won three Super Bowls?
So would he be with Mahomes? Probably not, But I
would say that he was every bit as good. I
mean Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen. I mean these are
like MVPs, Like that's what he was. And listen tier two,

(56:39):
Like those guys aren't Tier two quarterbacks. They're on Tier
two teams, but like they are like all time great quarterbacks.
I mean all time. Lamar Jackson's the most dynamic player
we've ever seen passing and running right. Cam Newton's the
most physical runner. I would say Steve Young is the

(56:59):
best passing runner, ever, Michael Vick probably like one of
the great all time talents, all around talents. I think
Lamar is the best player. It took Steve Young a
long time to win Super Bowl. I think Josh Allen's
like the modern day Lway. I think Lamarge. I think
Josh or excuse me, Andrew was those guys. I mean

(57:22):
he was fucking awesome. Not a question for the mailbag,
But you talked about Tom's Thumb Barbecue. You and Maria
have to go check out Little Miss Barbecue. It's the
best in Arizona. You have to get there at like
two hours before opening because of how fast they sell out.
It's a must. I love food. I'm gonna try to

(57:45):
fast a little bit this week, see if I can lose
about five pounds for the wedding. But I love to eat.
I love to eat more than the size of my body.
I mean I can eat for like a six five,
three hundred pound guy. I'm five ten buck ninety. But
if your restaurant is telling me to get there two
hours before they even open, it's one of those like

(58:08):
maybe in college, and listen, I'm sure that food is remarkable.
You're just not getting me there. As a consumer, and
I appreciate it, which clearly means you I had great
products sells out. But like if I got to stand
in line outside, like it's Duke basketball playing North Carolina
the day before and I gotta wait for tickets, I'm
just I'm not gonna attend the event, just like I'm

(58:28):
not gonna eat the barbecue, so if I gotta wait,
I'm just being completely honest here. I'm not gonna eat
the brisket sandwich. It's not because I don't love brisket sandwiches.
I love them. For whatever reason. Maria hates brisket. She's
like or burnt ends it kind of bothers me. It's like,
I'm not gonna how do you not like this? But

(58:49):
she doesn't question for the pod, Do the bills pay
Cook the fifteen million he wants or better off going
with their young running back room Davis and Johnson. Cook's
pretty good man. I would have a hard time not
paying him. I think they pay him. I think they
pay him. Here's the other thing. Fifteen million dollars a year.

(59:10):
Is that really that much money? I actually think it's
a pretty good deal. You have mentioned people that have
helped advance your career. You mentioned on your last show
that you will be out of pocket a little bit
with your wedding around the combine curious, have you ever
had any thoughts about your intern or anyone else covering
an episode or two while you were gone, just like
Colin does for his show. I have the operation, I

(59:37):
would say over the next my goal over the next
eighteen to twenty four months is to vastly expand the
operation that way. I mean, that's a huge reason we
have brought Jackson on a meeting with Jackson here sometime soon,
I would say. The one thing with the podcast, like,

(59:57):
even if I'm going to the wedding, I can still
record my podcast from wherever I'm at. The one downside
to the business I'm in currently, which is incredible and
I'm very grateful and I wouldn't change it for anything.
I'm you do kind of hit the nail on the head,
like this is not one of those businesses that I

(01:00:20):
just take a week off. If I don't bring my
shit with me and record, like nothing happens unless I
pre record some stuff like interviews, So that that is
something like big picture I've definitely thought about. You don't
want to. I'm not in the business of not doing
anything for a long time, so basically anyone that's been
listening for over a year, and I was like the summer,
I'm still recording shit, which again, I like doing this.

(01:00:41):
I mean, this is my job, this is what I
enjoy doing, is what I'm pretty good at doing. But ideally,
sometimes maybe it would be nice to just completely tune
out and let someone do it. Now. The problem is
like next week at the wedding, like free agency starting,
There's stuff I want to talk about when it happens.
This is not middle of July when nothing is going on.
So like, if so and so, let's say Miles Garrett

(01:01:02):
gets traded, I want to have a take. And I
think that's one of the powerful things of the business
I'm in, Like I can just record it from my
hotel room and then my entire you know, plane ticket
there is a write off because business middlecoff LLC writes
it off. You know, it's all kind of interconnected. But yeah,
I mean there are I've had ideas and notes about

(01:01:25):
kind of where we want to head in what the
potential is. But as of right now, if there's a
podcast on this feed, it's going to be me and listen.
I haven't been doing this long enough to like, if
you tune into this, this is not your tuning into
ESPN or even Fox Sports one, and like there is

(01:01:46):
programming like this program comes when I record a podcast
and you seek it out. So I really value that
I'm not in a position where this is I'm not
coward of Dan Patrick where it's like, let's get someone
to fill in for your show. It's not really the
business I'm in. You know, I'm a podcaster and the
podcast is me. I could be wrong, but I'm just

(01:02:09):
gonna use him as an example. Like if Joe Rogan,
like no one fills in for Joe Rogan, no one
fills in like a big cat and pft, don't do
a show like other people aren't filling in for them.
So we're kind of our industry is a little different
than historically it used to be. Like I when I
was in radio, I took two weeks off. Someone fill
in and take my spot. But that's because every day
at ten o'clock, like, there's gonna be a show. So

(01:02:31):
if I'm not doing it, someone has to do it.
So if like there's just not a show next Fridays,
because like, I'm getting married, right whatever, So it's a
little different that way. Okay, Green Bay fan here, my

(01:02:58):
question relates to the Packers stunner. When I look at
the Packers on paper, they seem fairly well constructed balanced Statistically,
all phases of our team O line, D line, pass run,
secondary turnovers land between fourth and twelve, and our overall
performance through the season and the seventh seed seem to

(01:03:18):
align with that data. I agree, can we or any
other team really make a Super Bowl run without having
one or two truly elite elements to their team. It
feels like the best gms like Howie aim for a
aim for and pay elite, high ceiling players, and he's

(01:03:39):
willing to take risks on rookies and lower paid free
agents that will fill out the roster. Well, you guys
have always done that, Like you guys have always you know,
Zach Bond, Mackai Beckton, Like you guys have hit on
a lot of players like that over the years. I
mean Charles Woodson, if I remember correctly, he was his

(01:04:01):
market wasn't exactly robust when you guys signed him, and
he left the Raiders. So and I'm not comparing, you know,
Charles Woods is a Hall of Famer to Zack Bond,
who's you know, had one Hall of Fame level season.
But my point is, like you guys have hit on that.
You took a pretty big swing on Josh Jacobs that
that worked. I think the part of the problem for

(01:04:22):
you guys was Jordan Love was very hit or miss
throughout the season, and your passing game obviously towards the
end with the injuries, and it's uh, you know, I
would say polarizing might be the wrong way to put it.
But you know, your wide receiver group, while very talented,
when you guys were really good, I know you didn't

(01:04:44):
win more Super Bowls, but like after you won the
Super Bowl with Rogers, then you had that stretch where
you were just in a bunch of conference championship games
and competing, you had a specific, like a clear number
one guy. I do think as a you need a
clear number one an alphaz wide receiver, and that was Jordy,

(01:05:04):
and then it was Driver early on than Jordy, and
then obviously DeVante. And I think with the Eagles, like
it's a j Brown, right with the Bengals, it's Jamar Chase.
For a long time it was Tyreek Hill and then
it became Travis Kelcey. I think that you know, the
hierarchy of an offense, it's pretty rare, even with the

(01:05:26):
forty nine ers couple years ago, like it was Christian McCaffrey,
and this year it's like, well, who's you know? Jacob's
in that playoff game was trying to will you guys
to a victory. So I think you gotta find some
hierarchy with the wide receivers. And maybe it's just a
natural it'll play itself out. Maybe you'll sign DeVante back.

(01:05:46):
I don't know, but I think you know your passing
game because your defense actually is a lot better. It's
just offensively. I think I was expecting that last eight
games of Jordan Love this year, and he got banged up,
and it just it never felt really aligned. Yeah, I
mean you had moments, but how many games too, were
you guys down big and came storm and back? The

(01:06:08):
Lions game was a bad loss, Vikings game, you got
at your ass kicked. What was your guys? I think
the part of the problem with the Packers last year
was what was their divisional record? I don't think it
was very good. The Green Bay Packers were one in
five in the division, one and five. That's pretty bad, man,

(01:06:35):
that's really bad. That's embarrassing, especially because, like the Lions
in Minnesota were two of the better teams of the conference. Listen,
lose the Bears. I know they hadn't lost it. You're
allowed to lose a random game in division every once
in a while, but like to get swept by the
Vikings and the Lions like that, that's a big kick
in the nuts. So to me, like for you guys

(01:06:58):
to be good, I mean, think about this. You were
eleven and six and win one in five in the division.
That's pretty crazy. Like the Washington Commanders twelve and five.
They were four and two, the Vikings four and two,
the Rams four and two, the Bucks four and two,

(01:07:19):
Eagles five and one, and the Lions didn't lose a game.
I think when you look at all these playoff teams,
how they did in their division, you guys were by
far the worst. Chiefs five and one, and they threw
a game, Bills five and one, and I don't think
they tried their last game. Ravens four and two, the
Texans five and one. It's pretty crazy. Even the Steelers

(01:07:39):
and the Broncos who were the six and seven seeds
that were ten and seven were three and three, three
and three. Pretty nuts that you went one and five.
I can't imagine there are many playoff teams. I need
someone to run like a statistical analysis. There has to
be a very short list of playoff teams. Now that

(01:08:00):
we got seven seeds. That's probably changed the last couple
of years. But I would say the last twenty years,
team that won one division game has never made the playoffs.
Do you think wide receivers could end up being in
the same boat as running backs, especially with so many
talented guys come in the league every year, or do
you think the longer careers and importance on the passing

(01:08:21):
game will keep wide receivers from seeing the same dipping salary.
Coward has the funny theory about the whole backward hat thing.
Do you have any takes on NFL trends or player
habits that you think are a little overrated or just funny?
I see by pushback on the backward hats thing. I

(01:08:42):
think it's a generational thing. I mean for a long
period of time. You know, most successful people all kind
of dressed the same. Right when you just thought of
someone successful, you thought like a sports coat tucked in shirt. Well,
the richest people in the world, we're like a sweatshirt
and jeans to work. That kind of threw everything for

(01:09:05):
a loop, Like look at what Mark Zuckerberg wears, even
Bezos who's now on you know, who knows testosterone hormones
and everything pumping through his body, which I appreciate, but
in the peak of his powers as a nerd, like
look like geeky, you know, in terms of the clothes
he wears, like what you wear now. Obviously, if you're

(01:09:29):
meeting certain people, there is a time and a place
to put on something nice. But I think the backward
hats thing, and you know Colin, like I would disagree
in twenty twenty five, like even if behind you and
his whole thing, like the corporate sponsors like JP Morgan Chase,
do you think they really care if Tom Brady has
a backward or forward hat his net worths like five

(01:09:51):
hundred million dollars. I just don't think it matters at all.
And I'm someone that doesn't have hair and wears a
hat most days, But I I just I think there
are things that used to matter that like still like
when you interact with someone, looking them in the eye,
shaking their hand, like that still matters. But what you're
actually wearing. Obviously you want to wear clothes. But if

(01:10:14):
you went to a business meeting and you are the
guy with all the money and you are shorts and
a T shirt, do you think anyone gives a flying fuck?
You know? And I think forever that was always kind
of frowned upon. And listen, I have a different background
because like I grew up around farmers and some of
these farmers had a lot of cash, and like we're
dirty jeans and a polo shirt. And I mean these

(01:10:37):
guys now, I mean, you know, I know of people
in the valley. I mean these guys ain't flying commercial,
like they own their own jet and the hangar. So
it's like, I just think that we overvalue things and
things change. So it's like I mean, once upon a time,
listen and listen, there are fashion elements that you see

(01:10:59):
guys that I would say, like, fuck, what the hell
is this guy wearing? But I guess things change. Getting
ready for the combine question, obviously, players that a power
for program and a select few group of five. Do
I even answer your question wide receivers. I think eventually
someone just has to say no, Like I'm not paying

(01:11:21):
you forty million dollars. Now, I wouldn't say that's a
Jamar Chase. I think Jamar Chase is one of the
best players in the league. But I think the forty
nine ers made a big mistake last year with Brandon Nyuk.
I hated that. I just thought that they kind of
got played. He won, like they negotiated and he dominated
them and they got punked. You know, at least Debo
literally carried them to a championship when you know Debo

(01:11:46):
won the negotiation as well. But like, hey, listen, we
wouldn't even have made the playoffs, let alone got to
where we got. Like we row you like Secretariat, Like
Brandon Aro, he cost seventy five balls, good player. I'm
paying thirty million dollars for seventy five catches was insane.
So to me, I got no problem paying elite's elite money.

(01:12:06):
See this all the time in the NBA. Like I
will pay Steph Curry, I'll pay Lebron James, I'll play Jokic.
Unlike Nico I'd play Luca. I'd pay the top seven
eight guys who are true max guys. But when you
start maxing out like player twenty three, like you deserve
to lose. So it's like, who am I paying and
what am I paying them? Are they super elite? Because

(01:12:29):
there's a big difference to me between aj Brown and
I don't know some of these other cats. Obviously, players
that have Power four and a select group of Power
five schools get a good look with lots of exposure
throughout the year. But I'm a small school guy and
follow the FCS closely. With the talent at the higher levels,
not a lot of players get a chance to go

(01:12:49):
to the Senior Bowl, were invited to the Combine, even
though there are quite a few that make big impact
later in the league. What kind of intention does an
NFL team give to lower levels and how are they
evaluated to compare to the top level players. I think
if you're a really good player at North Dakota State,

(01:13:10):
at Montana, you know at the Big South Dakota State
they are going to the Senior Bowl. You know those
programs have had enough guys drafted that if they are
good enough, every team in the league is going through
these programs. Now, if you are at cal Pawly or
UC Davis, I'm just using I know the West Coast

(01:13:31):
school FCS programs better and you aren't making it to
the playoffs and you're like still have some NFL qualities
like it, Yeah, you're probably not getting invited to an
All Star Game. It's going to be more difficult. And
if it's the same as like being at like a
bad Division I program like San Diego State, you're gonna
get more looks. And historically it's proven to be true.

(01:13:52):
Are there gonna be outliers? Yeah, But if I'm a GM, like,
I'm okay with missing on the dude, I'm not gonna
miss on the guy from South dakot To State. I'm
not going to miss on the guy from North Kota
State if he's gonna get drafted in the third or
fourth round. But like the undrafted free agent that might
make a team from UC Davis, Like, I only have
so much bandwidth to worry about that guy. I need

(01:14:13):
to get the fourth round er. I need to get
Dallas Godder right, I need to get Carson Wentz right,
I need to get Cooper Rush. Like a guy we're
gonna draft. Obviously those guys were high draft picks, but
any draft pick, so I yeah, they get discriminated against,
and rightfully so, history would say their chances or success
are much smaller. A question for the mailbag. I'm a

(01:14:33):
longtime Packer fan and was just watching the mail bag
and you were talking about how the Packers will be fine,
and I also agree we always will be in the hunt.
But I feel like they need a big splash. I
like Goot he says, I love Goot as the GM,
and he makes an insane amount of good late round picks,
and last free agency picked up guys like McKinney and
Josh Jacobs. My one concern is that we always seem

(01:14:53):
to miss in the first round. Morgan last year injured,
like you didn't miss if a guy got hurt, I mean,
and he might be good, he might not be time
will tell. I think he's an Arizona tackle, but he's
not a bust. Lucas fans has been a huge bust.
Like that was like that. Here's the one pushback I'd

(01:15:14):
have against Packers drafting philosophy. They are addicted, I would
say more than any other team. That's good like a
lot of Like look at Andy Reid. They don't have
high wight speed requirements. If you can play, they're gonna
be interested. Like there are some teams that would not
mess with Xavier Worthy definitely as high as they took them.
Like a smaller player, right, just not he's like this

(01:15:36):
guy I want him right and obviously he has a
history with DeShawn Jackson, Tyreek Hill, like smaller speed guys.
But Luke van s and correct me if I'm wrong.
Never started in college, never started a game at Iowa. Definitely,
his whatever year his draft year was, was not a starter.

(01:15:59):
I just don't think that's good business. You're gonna take
a guy in the first round because he has a
lot of sweet measurables and he was a big time
athletic freak. They couldn't start at Iowa. Well, what's Iowa?
A really good defensive program. We can make fun of
offense all we want, and they're technically or you know,
you know, by the numbers have been pretty poor over

(01:16:19):
the last you know, which is ironic because they've had
some of the best tight ends in the NFL. George Kittle,
who actually kind of underachieved in college, Laporta. I mean
they have studs everywhere, but in their running back this
year is actually really good. Like they actually produce offensive
skill guys, but the offense as a whole isn't good.
Their defense is Cooper Degene. I mean, they produced dudes,

(01:16:43):
but the guy's not gonna start and you're gonna take
him in the first round, Like that's kind of overthinking.
And he I haven't seen Gooda Kins ever talk about this,
but I think over over a couple of cold beers here,
he'd be the first to tell you that was stupid.
That was stupid. But organizationally, that's kind of They do
a lot of stuff like that and sometimes it works.

(01:17:03):
You know, Christian Watson, I know he tores ACL but
like a lot of people thought they were nuts for
taking that pick high weight speed guy. Well actually when
he's on the feel, he's pretty fucking good. But he started.
You know, you don't start in college. If I'm the Packers,
I can't draft you. So listen, I think I'm with you.

(01:17:24):
You guys aren't going away. You're gonna be a playoff team.
You're probably not gonna go one and five in the
division again. But like if Max Crosby, Micah Parsons, Miles Garrett,
Like you should be one of the teams offering the most.
Can we get you for two ones in a two?
Like it's time to take a big swing. You know,
the last time the Packers non quarterback took an enormous

(01:17:45):
swing was in free agency when they signed Reggie White
and that worked out pretty well. What do you make
of the Brandon Staley hire as a Saints DC. I
find it weird that Moore was an assistant to Staley
less than two years ago, and now the rules are first.
On top of that, Staley's defense was bad when Moore
was in LA and it was This is just kind

(01:18:06):
of how football works sometimes. You know, Brandon Staley took
care of Kellen when Mike fired him, and now he's
taken care of brand Stay now. I think Kellen Moore
is good at his job. I think he's a good
offensive coordinator and a very very smart guy. I would
hire Kellen Moore to be my offensive coordinator and you
never know what the head coach, but totally understand why
the Saints hired him. I'm not a Brand Staley guy.

(01:18:28):
I think he's just full of shit. I think he's
like the Gavin Newsom of the NFL. I would not
hire him as my defensive coordinator under any circumstances. He
wasn't a good defensive coordinator in with the Chargers. His
one year with the Rams to me like little fraudulent
twenty twenty. Every defensive coordinator is pretty good with the Rams,

(01:18:52):
So I disagree with Kellen on that one. I just
wouldn't want that guy to be one. I wouldn't even
want him my building. I think he's one of the
biggest frauds going. I really do. And the more stories
I hear about him, it's like from a football standpoint,
I'm not talking about his you know, other off outside
of the building. I'm just saying from a football standpoint,

(01:19:13):
I think somehow this guy has finagled himself, and it's like,
what are we talking about? But I don't know. A
question for the Mailbank. I know you're not a big
hockey fan, but what were your thoughts on the Four
Nations NHL tournament? Hockey is obviously huge up here, so
I'm curious to see if big events will grow in

(01:19:34):
the US and increase your personal interest in the sport.
I loved it. I mean I was, I would say,
like the other ten million people glued to my television
in that final, and I think I found I didn't
even know the thing existed, so until I saw on
social media that they had booed the anthem. So I
clicked over and the fights had just happened, and then

(01:19:55):
I clearly saw that there were They started showing the
replays of the three fights in ten seconds, and that
game was incredible. Did McDavid score first and America was
down and then we came back and we won. And
anytime America wins in hockey against Canada, like back in
the day against Russia, it feels like a massive upset
because it does not feel like we are remotely as

(01:20:17):
good as these guys. Now we're tough, you could argue
we're tougher, but like we don't have mcjesus flying around
like Wayne Gretzky ain't walking through that door. So it's
it's cool to watch. It feels it's the version what
I think we've always wanted out of soccer, Like we
understand we're not as good as everybody else, like completely

(01:20:37):
understand that, and we're never gonna win the World Cup.
But can there ever just be a moment where it's
like we upset Brazil and we're going to the Final
four like that. That just never, It's never gonna happen.
And I am totally cool with acknowledging. Like my expectations
whenever one of these World Cup happens in soccer, I'm stunned.
If we make it out of the group, stunned, and

(01:21:00):
my expectations don't exist. But sometimes hockey, like Damn Kad
Chuck brothers are kicking ass and taking names. These guys
are just kind of brawling and it's like, can we
take down with Jesus and Crosby. It just it was fantastic. Honestly,
it was at their All Star Game. I don't even
know that much about it besides that they create four teams.
They just played each other and it just turned out

(01:21:21):
we played Canada twice and the games were riveting. I mean,
it was just it was just fantastic television. Ultimately, all
this stuff, all these sports leagues, just like all these podcasts,
we're all in the entertainment business, and that was elite entertainment.
You know. I grew up watching the NBA All Star
Game and the three point contest and the dunk contest.

(01:21:43):
It used to be fantastic entertainment. It no longer is
so what happens? We don't watch historic lows? Why it's
not entertaining? Now? Hockey struggles here. I think ratings are down.
Is like the NBA, so regular season hockey? Just I
guess to the casual fan, isn't that entertaining? And I'm
guilty I don't watch? But that was great And this

(01:22:07):
isn't a complicated formula. When people really care, when the
effort is really high, we will watch. It will be entertained.
I mean, it's pretty simple. As an outsider looking in,
is it crazy to say that the Bengals should have
paid t Higgins and moved on from Jamar Chase for
three first round picks. Burro is the type to elevate

(01:22:28):
his wide receivers, and lord knows he needs those picks.
I would be the opposite. I just pay Chase. Do
you understand how good Jamar Chase is? And I'm not.
You know me, I'm pro like five or six wide receivers.
Other than that, like, I'd have no problem. T Higgins
is a replaceable player and he's good, like I'm not anti.

(01:22:49):
Ti Higgins a good player, one of them on my team.
But I'm not paying him thirty million dollars when I
also got Jamar Chase, so I'm gonna pay forty million dollars.
So I'm gona have two guys making seventy million dollars.
But Jamar Chase is a domin the dominant force. Like dominant,
I mean Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Calvin John Like he's
a Unlarry Fitzgerald, an unstoppable player. We saw him all year.

(01:23:12):
I mean, just kicking the shit out of everybody, running
by guys, breaking tackles, doing it all. And he's a
winning player. T Higgins a winning player too, But I
gotta make like when I look at it all, I
gotta take care of Jamar. I'd like to keep my
pass rusher. I gotta let Higgins go. I should be
able to find another Higgins in the second round. Another
Bengals fan. Massive Bengals fan, and have been my whole life.

(01:23:34):
Our family used to have season tickets to the Kitten
the Palmer years. Talk about heartbreak. I wasn't around in
the eighties, but I think the Bengals team the past
four or five years has been the best version in
franchise history. I get there kind of a poverty franchise
and structure contracts in an outdated way with no guarantee
salary past the first year. I didn't even know that.

(01:23:55):
But I don't subscribe to the whole idea that they
can't afford Jamar t Trey. And with the cap going
up more than thirty mili this year, they can easily
do it. It would be one thing if they had
a bunch of good players on defense and had note
to sign a bunch of those guys, but they don't.
I think two things can be true. Could they, like,

(01:24:16):
do they have the money in bank accounts and through
cash flow to sign all these guys? Yes? Can they
make it work? If you and I ran the team
and we love the Bengals like we were Mike Brown
and the Bengals like listen, we talked about the Brown family.
No one disputes that they don't really love the Bengals.

(01:24:37):
The Cincinnati Bengals mean as much of them as they
would do any fan that loves the Bengals. Here's the thing.
Is it good business to pay both those wide receivers
top of the market? Obviously, Jamar would break the record.
But to Higgins is while he wouldn't get more than
Jamar Chase would get a lot based on the second
tier guys last year, he's looking at brand he's like

(01:25:01):
getting more than that. So I don't think so. I listen,
it's kind of complicated, like I tag and trade him.
I mean, he had seventy three catches last year for
ten touchdowns. Brandon Ayuke had like a career year for
seventy five. Yeah, I think there's a lot of parallels

(01:25:21):
here with Brandon Aiyuk and now you've just got seventy
five million dollars and thirty million a year. I would
keep Jamar Chase, and I would keep Hendrickson, and I
would try to use Higgins and buy other players, defensive players.
I just I don't think it's great business doing that.
And I'm not antii Higgins. I like the guy, and

(01:25:42):
I understand why Joe wants to keep him. Likes him,
wins with him. He's a good player, unique players, tall, playmaker,
good in the red zone. I don't know, man, I
think it's I don't think it's the best way to
build a team. Say, like, what would Walsh do? What
would Bill Belichick do? What would the Chiefs do? They

(01:26:06):
would not sign everybody? Question for the back, can you
explain just how hard fucking golf is? Actually, I've read
that wrong. Can you explain to everybody just how fucking
hard golf is? Excuse my language, little kids listening. I
got buddies that say baseball is harder. Baseball is extremely
different difficult. But if you are a scratch golfer, you

(01:26:29):
are still miles away from being on tour. You're literally
supposed to shoot part. I've played since I was ten.
I'm thirty two now and once reached a six handicap
at the peak of my powers. I would say playing
on tour and playing in Major League Baseball are equally
stupidly hard. Like it doesn't get like on the scale

(01:26:50):
of how hard it's It doesn't get any harder to be.
You could argue, one of the hardest things, if not
the hardest thing to do in sports. Just want The
one individual thing is to be a good hitter. It
is very, very hard to hit a baseball. Now we're
not talking professionally, you're just talking pick up, right. Most

(01:27:11):
people could just an average athlete if you just played
some high school sports. I give you a glove, you
can catch pop flies, you play catch, you could run
the bases, like you might not be able to hit
a ball in a fair way. So like casually golf
is gonna be way harder to play on the PGA

(01:27:31):
Tour or to play against the Yankees or the Dodgers.
I would put them on equal qualifying. It's hard. What
makes golf difficult to compare is like there's not really
there's not pickup baseball. I played golf last week with
some people and they were telling me stories about, like

(01:27:52):
some of the softball leagues around Arizona, because it is
so many guys that retire here that played pro baseball.
And one guy forget his name, but had just been
released from the Diamondbacks. He was still technically making eight
million dollars a year and had a couple of weeks
to kill and just went to this pickup league and

(01:28:14):
hit a ball that broke a guy's face at third base,
not the third baseman, but the runner. Pick up. You know,
beer league softball is not the same as baseball. Well,
you and I could just go out and play pebble
beach like Rory did. So golf can It's the one
sport that can get so much closer to the pro

(01:28:35):
game than all the other sports because I can literally
play the course that Rory and Tiger played. We can
we can do five on five pickup basketball. But if
there aren't any good players, like who cares? Now, if
you play there are nine other you know, former college players,
then yeah, it's really hard and you're gonna get schooled.
But I think just playing Beer League softball and just

(01:28:57):
going out to play golf golf is harder, but playing
pro baseball is extremely difficult. I do stand by that.
A huge amount of interest here in the NFL. This
guy is from Australia, super excited for the NFL to return.

(01:29:17):
It'll be the first time in twenty seven years. I
saw Lway Broncos beat the Chargers with a late field
goal in a preseason game. Wow, good knowledge. Just wanted
to comment on your musings about the international exposure we've
had NFL here over the thirty years. The Super Bowl
is always on free to AIRTV, non cable television and

(01:29:37):
Psycho pass. Like myself get up to get up way
early in the morning on Monday to watch Red Zone
kickoff for a few hours before work. Can't wait for
next season in the NFL breaking out in Australia. It's cool.
We'll glad to have you a part of this great
game that we call football. Curious on your thoughts on
what the forty nine ers do with Jordan Mason. Is

(01:29:58):
there a scenario where you think they can keep him
or is he more likely to be traded along with
some picks to a team they need for running back,
say somewhere like Dallas. I don't know why they wouldn't
just bring him back. I mean, what he's gonna be.
He came out, let me pull up his wiki, so

(01:30:20):
twenty two, twenty three, twenty four, he's just in a
contract year. I think he's just he's gonna be on
their team, like he's probably gonna be their backup running back.
I don't think I wouldn't give him away. I mean,
Jordan Mason before he got hurt last year was like
leading the league in rushing for four or five weeks.
I would keep him around. I think ideally, best case
scenario for the Niners. McCaffrey's healthy. He looks like Christian

(01:30:44):
McCaffrey and Kyle for the first time in his life,
gives him some breathers, and Jordan Mason plays a lot
with Grenda, but I would not count on Kyle giving
him breathers. Christian, I know that both your achilles almost
fell off and you tore your mcl in a snow game,
but we plan on giving you seven hundred touches this year.

(01:31:08):
That's probably what Kyle's thinking. I've just got done watching
the US first Canada once Canada one. I switched to
the Phoenix Suns versus the Spurs game. It was a
five minute break to determine if a simple foul was
a flagrant. I think the ratings will switch soon if
you can pare All Star weekends. It isn't close. I've
been a basketball guy my whole life, but what Adam

(01:31:30):
Silver has done is a joke. I think this might
be a Malcolm Gladwell type tipping point where the poor
leadership allows hockey to overtake basketball. I do think the
tipping point has happened, just in a vacuum with basketball,
the effort, the injuries, it's just the consumers. The consumer
speaks now when I see all like these political shows

(01:31:52):
get canceled, like it's very black and white you're not
getting enough people to watch. People are not watching, so
they cancel your show. You know, basketball, it's like the
ratings keep diminted. Less people are watching basketball now than
ten years ago. It's not debatable, like that's that's an
objective opinion. But hockey once, it's never been highly rated,
and it's also down. So I think if we compare

(01:32:17):
the Four Nations tournament, like it's kind of an outlier, right,
It's like you can't just go, well, golf's popular because
a lot of people watch the Masters. Well, yeah, two
hundred and fifty thousand people watch the Mexico Open. So
it's like, if everything was the Masters, you'd be in
good shape. If everything in hockey was the Four Nations Tournament,
hockey to be big, But it's not like, is anyone

(01:32:38):
gonna watch the Kings play the the Las Vegas what's
the Vegas team? The Aces? That is that? The WNBA team,
It's the Knights, you know, So if people don't watch
your regular season product, it's the Four Nations. Pretty unique tournament.
So I would say that I think the tipping points

(01:33:01):
happening with basketball in a vacuum. They have their own
issues and they're trying to figure it out why Adam
Silver just created an all star game where young guys
are playing old guys and it failed miserably from what
I heard and read and listened to. I didn't watch anything,
but I was out years ago. Now hockey had the
same problem going and they tried something different and it worked.

(01:33:24):
But I think both regular seasons like no one's watching, Like,
are more people going to watch the hockey playoffs? That'll
be interesting, hope, so I enjoy it. I've been thinking
about putting like one thousand dollars on a team in
the West and a thousand dollars on a team in
the East to win the Stanley Cup. So if you
like hockey, hit me up with some teams that I
should be betting on. I know he scored the game

(01:33:48):
winning goal, but I do like Connor McDavid. So are
they good this year? I know they are solid this year,
but can they win it? That'd be cool. If I
can get them like ten to one, that'd be sweet,
which is the Kelsey brothers were more impactful on their
teams over the span of their careers. I believe most
people would default to Travis since he is the one
that puts up the stats. However, you could argue the

(01:34:10):
best at their perspective positions in the game has ever seen,
albeit being at low positions of value. Do you think
they're both first ballot Hall of Famers? Yes, Well, we
got to learn what the Eagles would look like without
Jason Kelsey. They won the Super Bowl. They had a
guy that just ran for including the playoffs, like twenty
five hundred yards. And I'm not taking anything away from Jason.

(01:34:32):
He's an elite player, but they replaced him pretty easily.
Now it's centers, a replaceable position, you know, and Travis, like,
what are they going to look like on offense when
he's gone? Maybe they'll be better. He hasn't been the same,
you know. Jason went out on top. Jason was still
an elite player. Travis no longer is. But Jason retired.

(01:34:56):
They won the Super Bowl. Now you could argue that's
because they have Pro bowlers waiting in the wings. Great
job drafting, but just based on the information we had,
I would say that Travis is more impactful than Jason.
NFL is popular here in Colombia. I've been a fan

(01:35:16):
since ninety five and recently a fan of you and
Colin always listen to your podcast. Question, what is the
best book to learn the sport in a deep manner?
I mean plays, formations, etc. No clue. Never read a
book like that when it comes to football. So I'm
the wrong person ask. I think Belichick's writing a book

(01:35:39):
right now. I would whenever he puts that out, I
would buy that thing. I think Bill Walsh has some books.
I'm a bad person ask on terms of like schematics.
I don't know. I've never read a book like that. Okay,
last question A question for the pot die hard outside
of here member of the Kaffia. I'm also a product

(01:36:02):
of Sacramento. I grew up in Sack and lived here
for ten years after some time in the Bay Area.
My question is are teams in front offices using AI
for scouting, analytics or anything related to player or game evaluation.
I'm an analyst at an environmental consultancy and the AI
has been an absolute game changer for me and my work,

(01:36:24):
and I've been curious to the extent in which football
teams are tapping into the amazing technology. By the way,
what's your favorite golf course in Sacramento. It's a good question.
I would say Ole Masero. It's technically Davis, but one
I played probably by far the most of any course

(01:36:44):
in northern California. I don't really love Sacramento golf, you know,
hagen Oaks is probably the one that most people have
played the most. Some good golf up toward Tahoe. When
I was in high schoo we played like Nevady Union.
They're up like is it would it be Auburn or

(01:37:05):
is it the wrong wrong side kind of that area.
Foothills has some really good golf. Granted, Bay Country Club
is nice. I've played that a couple of years ago.
As of AI, I would be stunned if if some
of these teams in their analytical department, and you know,
kind of the technology department hasn't dabbled in that. But

(01:37:25):
I can't. I can't speak to that. I would imagine
we're very very early on kind of that level of
utilizing it toward a scouting perspective. But yeah, you convinced
me that there are I would imagine how he has
people already looking at it. Forty nine ers. Surely you

(01:37:47):
know a heart of Silicon Valley, But is every team
I don't know. Yeah, I appreciate everyone listen, have a
great day and we will talk soon in peace. The
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