April 24, 2025 • 59 mins
It's Draft Day and John dives into what the mindset of GM's and head coaches are heading into the draft. John talks about how this draft seems to not have the talent as other drafts may have had and how that changes how teams approach their picks. John also talks about the pressure from a player standpoint as they wait to hear their name called and how it can mess with your head if you slip in the draft. Next, John talks about some of the stories that he finds the most interesting heading into the draft.
Lastly, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segments.
4:54 - The Draft
22:48 - Interesting stories heading into the draft
28:57 - Microsoft
36:09 - Mailbag
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume, what is going on? Everybody? Happy Draft Day,
It's finally here the NFL. The Draft is today. Who
(00:26):
fired up? Man? I really am? So I did want
to dive in to just some big picture thoughts on tonight,
on the way that I view it, on something that
you know you're going to see a lot of over
the next couple of days, disappointment and why I think
you have to look at the class half full when
it comes to being selected, even if it's not where
(00:48):
you want to go as a player. Some of my
big stories coming into tonight when I'm most excited to
see play out. And then we're going to do a
rapid fire mail bag because obviously some of these questions
are going to be worthless after the first couple nights
of the draft. So that's a game plan today. Talk
a little draft, do a little mailbag at John Middlecoff.
(01:09):
We're gonna have content all weekend long on the YouTube page,
even some separate YouTube potentially you might do like a
happy hour on Friday before the draft on the second round,
be YouTube only, so you're gonna want to subscribe to
the YouTube page if you listen on Collins feed. We've
had some podcasts today that did not go on the feed.
(01:31):
If you want to keep up with all our football content,
make sure you subscribe to three and Now podcasts, Apple, Spotify,
wherever you listen to podcasts, we got you covered, so
make sure you check that out and subscribe. Before we
dive in to some football and mainly the NFL Draft.
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prices guaranteed the Draft. I have loved this event for
(03:01):
as long as I can remember. It's why I aspired
to work in the NFL. It's still I kind of
get a you know, it makes me feel like a
kid again right around this time. It's got a little
bit of a Christmas feel to it. I love the
excitement that fans get for their individual teams. I mean,
there's nothing more powerful you could argue in the world
(03:23):
than the power of hope and the belief that something
is going to create a positive change. And we are
disappointed often, but every once in a while, the draft
changes the team's fortunes for a long period of time.
And the best part about it is it could be
a fifth round pick, it could be a third round pick.
It's not obviously always your first round pick. That is
(03:46):
the guy that helps turn around your franchise, that becomes
the best player on your team, that becomes one of
the best players in the NFL. And it's why, to me,
one of the most important guiding principles I have when
discussing the draft. It's an economic exercise. And obviously you
(04:06):
are trying to pick talented players. But the best general
managers and the best front offices know how to balance
the ability to pay the right price for the asset,
and that's what you're doing. This basically becomes the stock market,
supply and demand. It's why I've taken a lot of
heat and a lot of people thought I was nuts.
(04:28):
Then I'm being critical of Ashton Genty, But I simply
look at it like an economic equation. If there are,
depending on the teams you talk to, eight to ten
guys that are going to be starters in the NFL
at running back, and some teams think that there are
going to be four or five high end starters at
that position. Even if you value Genty as the number
(04:50):
one running back in the class, which I would imagine
that is, I don't know if it's universal, but probably
ninety ninety five percent of teams have him ranked as
the number one guy. If you're the Jacksonville Jaguars, if
you're the Vegas Raiders and you're drafting fifth or six,
you could easily take them and no one will complain
and you'll get an A on your draft grade and
fans will be really excited. But are you better off
(05:13):
using that capital, which is very valuable capital, a fifth, sixth, seventh,
whatever in the top ten on a position that historically
gets harder and harder to draft as we go through
the rounds offensive lineman, defensive lineman, and use your second
round pick or your third round pick on that position
(05:36):
where historically you're able to find a ton of starters
at running back in the later rounds, but specifically in
this draft that it's basically an objective opinion, and it's
no one's arguing with anyone going it's loaded at that position.
Making a decision going, you know what, we're gonna get
(05:56):
that guy later. I see it all the time with
wide receivers that DK Metcalf, AJ Brown, Terry McLaurin. A
lot of guys get draft in the second, third, fourth round,
go on to be Pro Bowl level players. So you
can use a pick. If you have a top fifteen pick,
even if you need a wide receiver, get that guy
(06:16):
in the second or third or the fourth round. Hell
take two wide receivers over the course of your entire draft.
And listen, I was around Howie Roseman, and I would
say no one is better at navigating the landscape of
knowing what do I have to pay for the guy?
And when it comes to the draft, that's based on
(06:37):
draft picks. So if I have the tenth pick and
I really really like a guy, if I have the
opportunity to go from ten to seventeen, can I still
get the same player that I would have taken at ten.
No one knows, but it is the general manager's job
to have a pretty good idea of go, Yeah, I
(06:57):
think we got an eighty percent chance of going to
set and getting that player. And even if we don't
get that player, there are two other guys that we
would highly consider taking it pick ten, that we would
love to take at seventeen while also adding maybe a
third round pick. It's why when people push back on
my gent arguments, which again I am pro ashon genty
(07:19):
excellent player I just couldn't take him in the top ten,
not when I know that there are a ton of
other guys at that position I could easily draft in
the top one hundred that can start for me at
running back, while I also get a high end defensive lineman,
a high end offensive lineman, which we just learned by
Howie Roseman is the way to build a championship team.
(07:41):
Dominate in the trenches. It was ultimately the downfall of
the Kansas City Chiefs, the reason that they didn't win
three straight Super Bowls, which easily could have happened. But
they couldn't block anybody, and it's difficult to find starting
offensive tackles in the third and fourth round. Doesn't mean
you can't, but more than likely you won't. And I
(08:05):
think when you look at this draft, you have to
understand that it's going to be tough to trade. So
I'm not crushing any team that takes a guy like
that guy was overdrafted. What we would love to do
is to move back six or seven spots. No one
would make a trade with us. But I also think
teams that don't understand the value of players, and this
(08:27):
became the downfall of Bill Belichick in the last couple
of years of his run in New England. Is he
was taking guys in the second or third round that
he could have gotten the fifth or sixth. And that's
on him as the general manager to understand the value
of these individuals. And some teams don't like their scouts
(08:47):
or their front office, including coaches, when they do these
evaluations to put grades in terms of what round the
guy is going to get drafted on. I've always thought
that was kind of stupid. That's the whole ex size
that we're doing is like is this guy a third
round pick or is he a first round pick? Because
if he's a guy that we can get in the
third round, that most teams are gonna view that way.
(09:10):
We would be insane to use pick twenty two on
this player when even if we wanted to quote unquote
overdraft overpay, take them in the second round and add
another player in the first round instead of wasting all
that capital on a guy that is not worth that
relative to the NFL. And I also think another thing
(09:31):
smart teams will do is understanding the future draft. So
this draft is widely considered not a great one. I
think Diane Russini had a quote today from a coach
that there aren't a lot of Robert de Niro's in
this draft, aka, not a lot of stars. So when
there aren't a lot of stars and it's not a
(09:52):
powerful draft, it doesn't mean that these guys aren't going
to be excellent players. We'll get into that in a second.
What it does mean is, based on their college performance,
a lot of people don't see superstar potential in a
lot of players. Some years. It's like, and we've talked
about this over the last couple of weeks, that in
a good draft you should have over twenty guys graded
(10:13):
as first round picks. It's very, very difficult to get
thirty to thirty five players in a draft that most
teams are going to have created as first round picks.
Some years they'll be fifteen, some years they'll be twenty.
In a really good draft, they'll be twenty three to
twenty four guys. I think it's fair to assume that
in this draft some teams might have it in single digits.
(10:35):
It doesn't mean that they don't like other players that
will get draft in the first round. They will just
have those guys valued. If it was last year. Yeah,
take that guy at thirty eight, don't love him at eighteen.
And it's on the GM to understand this. And if
you ever get the opportunity, especially teams that need quarterbacks,
to make a trade on a future first round pick
(10:56):
that can change your franchise, now it's on you to
then nail the pick. The Giants a couple of years
ago from the Chicago Bears got a future first round
pick to go from eleven to twenty. Remember the one
year how your roseman had all those first round picks
and it was in a good draft and he was
able to accumulate picks and trade for aj Brown and
end up moving up for Jalen Carter. Like, the more
(11:17):
assets you have, the more flexibility you are given on
a yearly basis. And I'm always fascinated by the teams
who are best at maneuvering up and down and the
ones that are and understand the value of the players
typically are the teams that consistently win the other thing.
(11:40):
And I think this resonates with any human being. Where
you start in life, whether that's where you grow up,
whether that's where you go to school, whether that's your
first job, does not determine the success for the rest
of your life. Obviously, there are situations if you go
to a private school growing up, if you go to
(12:03):
a good college, if you are given a great job
out of college because of someone you know, it can
set you up on the right path. But then for
most people, including athletes, just because you're the number one
overall pick, that does not guarantee you a goddamn thing.
And there are going to be a ton of players
(12:24):
over the next seven rounds of this draft, but specifically
after the first round moving its way toward Day three,
who are going to be devastated. It really sucks getting
drafted in the fourth round when you thought you could
go in the second round, when you end up going
in the second round and you're like, I wanted to
be a first round pick. But at the end of
(12:44):
the day, it is on you once training camp happens,
once OTA's happen, obviously, once the season happens, and moving
forward to separate yourself. And the best part about football
more than all the other sports a little bit because
of the minor leagues, but definitely different than basketball that
(13:04):
every year we see an undrafted free agent, multiple undrafted
free agents, not only make NFL teams. I think on average,
an undrafted free agent makes every team. The bad teams
typically sometimes have like three or four guys make the team. Well,
they're making the team typically because they're beating out guys
who were just drafted. Who guys that were drafted in
(13:25):
the fourth, fifth, sixth round, not even just in this
immediate draft, but maybe last year draft that spend time
on the practice squad. And while it's cliche and people
laugh at it, you're either getting better or worse. No
one stays the same. And that video that went viral
for a long long time and still a meme of
Tom Brady with the long hair talking to Steve Sable
(13:47):
at NFL Films, crying about how difficult draft day was
because he went on a walk with his dad. He
didn't get drafted a sixth round. I saw a clip
the other day from Brian Branch, the star kind of
safety Nickel Do It All dB for the Detroit Lions,
who played at Alabama, who said Draft Knight was one
(14:07):
of the worst Knights of his professional in football career.
Thought he was a first round pick, thought he was
like a first round lock. He ended up not going
till pick forty five, and now several years later in
the NFL, he's widely considered one of the Swiss Army
Knights of defensive football and one of the better players
on one of the better teams in the league. And
(14:29):
I think sometimes when you fall, Lamar Jackson fell hell.
The Ravens took another guy in the first round before
they even selected Lamar Jackson. I'd say it worked out
pretty well for him. Look at Baker Bayfield and Sam Darnold.
While both of them are making a lot of money now,
they didn't exactly benefit from going to the Cleveland Browns
and the New York Jets, and ultimately their early failures
(14:53):
and turbulent starts did not end their careers. Now, I
will never argue that starting out being of the seventh
overall pick is better than being the seventy seventh overall pick.
Especially financially, you're guaranteed a ton of money. You are
given a four year guaranteed contract. The pressure on the
(15:17):
organization and the coaching staff for using that valuable asset
on you forces them to give you more opportunities, and
that branding of being a top pick, especially a top ten,
top fifteen pick, stays with you even after it should
be irrelevant four or five, six years later. It's like, well,
this guy was a really high pick and we liked
(15:39):
him coming out. Well, yeah, have you seen him play?
He stinks It happens all the time. Help. Daniel Jones
just got fifteen million dollars from the Indianapolis Colts. If
Daniel Jones hadn't been the sixth overall pick and had
been the one hundred and sixty six pick, probably doesn't
go that way. Trey Lance is a good example. I
(16:00):
thought he'd be out of the league, but he was
a top five pick, and even Jim Harbaugh and the
Chargers gave him one point five million dollars guaranteed this
year to compete for the backup quarterback job. If he
had been a sixth round pick, that's not happening. So
getting drafted high does stay with you and present more opportunities,
(16:23):
But just because opportunities are presented, it doesn't mean a
goddamn thing. And the amount the league is full of
George Kittles and Max Crosby's and guys that are drafted
on the third day of the draft on every team
that are some of the best players in the league,
some of the highest paid players in the league. Hell,
(16:45):
guys that are drafted at the end of the first
round that are the sixth to seventh guy at their
own position on Thursday night go on to be the
best individual at that position in their draft. Happens every year,
if not every other year. And the thing that I
admire most about this sport is how difficult it is,
(17:06):
how hard it is mentally physically, how much goes into
this being successful. And obviously tomorrow night and over the
next couple nights are really cool, and all these teams
add all these players, but then once practice starts, they
don't even necessarily start at the same spot because when
(17:27):
you're first and second round pick, you are more likely
to get the opportunity to run with the ones. At minimum,
you're running with the twos. But over the course of
the next twelve months twenty four months, if you do
not perform, if you do not play well, if you
do not make place, if you do not know what
you're doing and other guys do, you will get lapped.
(17:50):
Because the nature of this sport, the amount of guys
that get injured, the cycling of backups and practice squatters
getting opportunities over the course of the seas isn't potentially
gonna happen, it's it's a guaranteed outcome. Guys end up playing,
and when you end up playing, the film is your resume.
(18:12):
And that's how people that like, oh, how did this guy?
Not in a million years did anyone think when brock
Purty was the last pick in the draft he would
be the starting quarterback for the Niners as a rookie
in the playoffs. But then one guy breaks his ankle,
another guy breaks his foot, and all of a sudden
he's starting. Then all of a sudden he's doing good.
(18:32):
Then several years later he's in negotiations for a contract
somewhere between probably one hundred and twenty five and one
hundred and ninety million dollars guaranteed. Obviously that's a big difference,
but we are talking an astronomical amount of money for
a guy that was the last pick in the draft
just a couple of years ago. And he's an example
(18:54):
I used because he plays quarterback, but there are examples
like him all over the place. The Eagles starting left
tackle had never played NFL football, came from Australia several
years later, Jeff Stoutlin coaches him up. Jason Peters is
gone and now he's one of the best left tackles
(19:14):
in the league. In all the paths, all of our
pass to get wherever we're going, are never going to
be the same. My path is different than your path,
is different than the next guy's path, but we control
a decent amount of it, and it's easy to get
down when shit doesn't go our way, just like it
is easy to pout if you get drafted in the
(19:36):
fourth round and you go, shit, I think I'm better
than like eighty percent of the guys at my position
that just got drafted over me over the last three rounds.
This is insane. I had to fall fifty picks the
end of the day. It was out of your control
where you ended up going. And who cares when that ball.
If you're a running back gets handed off to you,
(19:56):
go make some plays and you'll be fine. If you're
a wide receiver, get open and the ball will come
your way. If you're a linebacker, go make some freaking tackles,
and when you do, you'll be rewarded for it because
you'll play and then all of a sudden, we'll look
back and be like god, guy was drafting the fifth
round he had an eleven year career, and three guys
at his position were drafting the first and second round.
(20:17):
They didn't even make it five years. Because the average
lifespan of an NFL player is like a little over
three years, and we see it all the time. That
factors in first round picks as well, so buckle up.
Obviously it's to be a huge story who falls, who doesn't.
But I'm fascinated by what happens going forward, not what
(20:39):
happened based on the past. And that's all the draft is.
It's you're drafted based on what you've done. Once you
get drafted, no one gives a shit anymore. I did
want to hit on a couple of things that I'm
most fascinated on going moving forward over the next couple nights.
The stories to me that are by far, like I
find the most interesting, and I don't think it's debatable
(21:01):
the number one story in this draft, and listen, after
a while you get tired of talking about it. But
then the draft comes, like where should Door Sanders is
gonna go? Are all these teams that need a quarterback?
The Browns, the Giants, the Steelers just not gonna draft
a quarterback in the first round. Even if they don't
draft a quarterback, especially the Browns and the Giants really
(21:24):
high in the draft. Do either of them trade back up?
Do they like quarterbacks other than Shador Sanders or Jackson Dart?
Are we sure that is only one quarterback going to
go in the first round? Are those two guys gonna
go with cam Ward as well? How many guys are
gonna go in the first three rounds? Like Kyle McCord,
(21:47):
the Louisville quarterback who's older than Brock Purty, Will Howard,
Riley Leonard, all these quarterbacks that we watched play in
college this year and have a lot of success. Are
any of them gonna get drafted in the second or
third round? Because we have seen in recent memory a
lot of guys that get drafted in the second and
third round either become immediate starters or become a starter
(22:10):
rafter a year or two and have a long careers.
So listen, quarterbacks are always going to drive the draft.
This one has a little bit less sizzle, but there
are a lot of names, and there are some marquee teams.
I mean, in theory, the Giants are one of the
biggest brands in all of the NFL, and they have
been terrible atrocious for over a decade. I mean really
(22:33):
really bad. I mean back to back years them drafting
really high. That's that ain't good, especially in a division
where the Eagles just won the Super Bowl and they've
been in the playoffs three straight years, two of the
last three years in the Super Bowl. The Cowboys had
a stretch where they won three straight years of twelve
plus games, and they had an awful year this year
(22:53):
and they're drafting twelve And the Commanders, who have kind
of been one of the running jokes of the league,
just made the conference Championshi and I would say if
they were a stock, everyone were divested them. So I'm
fascinated to watch with the Giants Stewart quarterback, I'd be
a little stunned if they don't take a guy with
their first couple of picks. But you know who knows,
and listen, you guys know where I stand on the
(23:17):
running back situation. But just because I don't necessarily believe
it's the right thing to do doesn't mean it's not
gonna happen. So is Ashton genty I saw a headline today, Jacks,
they're leading an offense. Would they take Ashton Genty? Once
upon a time they took a running back really high.
It's safe to say they regretted it pretty quick. And
that guy's name was Leonard Fournette, who was the number
(23:38):
one running back prospect in high school football, went to LSU,
became a stud. Now I'll never forget the game that
he had against Alabama, got exposed a little bit, but
did not live up to the hype. And Ashton Genty
was coming from a much smaller school. Would they do that?
Would the Patriots entertain him at four? I have a
(23:58):
hard time vrabel who former player, high level player, massive dude,
who's success as a coach happened with the just a
massive blue chip running back. Everyone's like, why do you
keep talking about his height? I don't know, because it'd
be difficult for me to draft a five eight guy
in the top five. Call me crazy, you know, call
me alone, but I just I think that's that's nuts.
(24:23):
But I'm prepared for him to go really really high
and fascinating to watch how that goes down. Makes Brad
Holmes if he does go pick four or five, six, seven,
Whenever look like a genius for not only getting a
awesome running back at pick twelve, but accumulating another pick
and getting Laporta. This essentially became a two for one.
(24:44):
So where does Asin Genti go? And Yeah, I mean
I think he will immediately be one of the more
fascinating guys from this draft moving forward. And then I
just think, from a big picture standpoint, how many famous
veteran players get traded? I think it starts with Jalen Ramsey.
Is do you want him? Come get him? Tyreek Hill?
(25:06):
Is Tyrek Hill going to get traded over the next
couple of days? Would anyone trade for him? Given some
of the stuff that's going on off the field with him?
Obviously the two kind of famous tight ends, they're not
even hiding their teams Dallas Goddter Mark Andrews like are
one of these guys? Are both of them going to
get dealt? I think it's pretty clear that teams that
(25:29):
like Tyler Warren and teams that like Loveland from Michigan,
if you don't land one of those guys and you're
not comfortable with other guys in this draft, would you
pull the trigger and trade for one of these guys,
because I think there's a decent chance that by the
end of the weekend, both these two tight ends are
on other teams. And obviously there are a bunch of
other names that maybe we don't see coming that are
(25:50):
going to get dealt. And I think when you look
at quarterback, obviously Aaron Rodgers a free agent, is Kirk
Cousin's going to get traded over the next couple of days,
because you got to give him some credit, Everyone's well,
he's not gonna show up to OTA's even Rahee Morris
was like, we don't expect him to be there, and
Kirk Cousins like, screw you, I'll be there. Yeah, I'm
a high level cat. I can handle a little controversy.
(26:10):
See you there. Tuesday he was there. And is he
just trying to act in good faith, trying to show
the league that, like, listen, I'm a total team guy.
If I got to be the backup for twenty seven
and a half million dollars, I'll be the highest paid
backup in the history of the league. Obviously, we have
seen starters get bench that made a lot of money,
but I don't We've never seen a backup going into
a going into a OTAs that makes almost thirty million dollars.
(26:35):
So would the Falcons trade him if someone is not
willing to eat any of the money. Are they adamant
that someone's got to eat ten million dollars and essentially
get cousins on like a one year, ten million dollar contract.
But a lot of these big name guys and a
lot of famous players, Now just because you're famous doesn't
mean you can play anymore. Are gonna get traded over
(26:56):
the next couple of days. Okay, before we get out
of here, I gotta welcome you to Chasing Challenges brought
to you by Microsoft in the NFL. Just like in
the business world, overcoming obstacles is key to success. Microsoft
empowers busin decision makers with AI solutions, simplified cloud and
data management, and trustworthy, responsible technology to turn challenges and opportunities.
(27:21):
In this segment, we will explore some of the biggest
challenges being faced in the NFL in how they can
be overcome. Whatever the challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you
with the expertise to say bring it on. This week,
we're discussing the challenge faced by all these NFL teams
drafting is hard. It's not an exact science because you're
(27:41):
dealing with human beings. I saw this quote from Kyle
Shanahan that I thought kind of summed up why this
thing is so difficult. And all these teams are wrestling
right now with how do we balance this guy's talent
with this guy the person, Because at the end of
the day, you are not drafting the player just on
(28:01):
the field, You're drafting the human being in your building.
Here's a quote from Kyle Shanahan for my guy, Matt
Barrows's article in The Athletic. There are some guys who
are rough around the edges, Shanahan said, but they work
their asses off and football is everything. You just put
them around the right type guys and they'll thrive because
(28:22):
they love football. If they're talented and there are some
issues and they don't love football, it never works out.
I think that sums it all up. And all these
teams are trying to get to the bottom of all
these players. How much do you love football? How much
do you love this sport? Are you just doing it
(28:44):
for the money, are you just doing it for the fame?
Are you just doing it because God gave you these
great gifts that most people don't have, and that has
enabled you to play college football at a high level.
Because if that's the reason, not because you love everything
that the sport's about, the practice, the grind, the lifting,
the film preparation. You practice way more than you play.
(29:06):
Most guys in the NFL bust and don't work out,
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Speaker 1 (32:09):
Okay, let's do a little quick middle coop mail bag.
We're gonna have to go draft rapid fire style because
this is not gonna have that big of a shelf
life obviously with the draft literally today, so I'm not
gonna I'll try to be quicker than than normal. We
will start with read Sanders, draft odds have gone from
(32:30):
over under pick eight and a half Saints nine, I think,
to over one hundred twenty one point five. Curious about
your thoughts on as possible slide. The Palissar article didn't help,
I would say by April twenty third, or is when
the Palasaro article came out, so the day before the draft,
(32:51):
I didn't read it. I honestly, I didn't even know
there was an article today. Nothing in that article, if
it's I guess I did see a headline by UH
pro Football talk about negative, talk about whatever. There is
nothing that a team that was interested in drafting Shador
Sanders did not know reading in that article, and if
(33:15):
there was, then the team's clueless. But I think it's
fair to say that any team that was very interested
in Shadoor, there's nothing there learning from an article the
week of the draft. So it's more about the landscape
of teams not drafting them high, not because of anything
(33:36):
you know written in an article. But I hear what
you're saying. I also think that I don't know. I
can't speak to the betting markets in terms of draft
selection what could significantly change, But I do not think
it's an article could be wrong. I'm not saying I'm
one hundred percent know that, but I don't think what
(33:56):
do you think of giving players at the draft a
chain to skip a team or two. As a rookie,
you have no say in what team you would like
to join. Only top college players. They go to the
worst teams in the NFL, and sometimes their careers are
dying there. Hear what you're saying. This is kind of
like it's a little different but similar vein of the
(34:20):
lottery with the draft. Obviously, this is more more of
like a bold step. I just don't think the NFL
is that interested in messing with the lottery odds. Situations
like I don't have to go play there because not
because my dad doesn't want me to go there, like
Arch and Eli, but because I have this card that
(34:40):
I can pull, Like don't want to play for Jacksonville.
I would rather go to Vegas like that. They're never
doing that. A big big Charger fan and big Middlecoff fan.
I like this guy. With that being said, who do
you think the Chargers will should take their first and
second round picks. I'm hoping for Loveland and and Trayvon Henderson.
(35:02):
If you ended up with a sweet tight end and
the sweet running back, that'd be pretty good. I do
think the Chiefs brought in Henderson. I forget I saw
a headline whether they had a call with them or
they flew him to Kansas City. But I do think
he'd be in play for Kansas City as well. I
don't think he will be there when the Chargers have
their second round pick. I think you guys are going offense,
(35:27):
so this guy's basically just complaining about taking defensive an
offensive linement. I'd feel pretty good. Like one of Jim
Harbaugh's best assets last year and definitely this year still
is that he knows these guys so well. He's recruited
all these players, He's coached against them, so like Levelin
(35:48):
was his guy Henderson, Like he knows these guys, so
does his defensive coordinator has coached against these guys. So
I'd be confident going into this draft about harbass knowledge
of these players. Is it tough for these days to
evaluate quarterbacks with so many college programs running non traditional
NFL style offenses. How do you know a guy can
(36:10):
run a pro style offense when they've barely been asked
to assess those situations or make those throws in college. Well,
just because you get to a throw, maybe in a
shotgun situation in a Texas Tech Air raid situation different
than under center in a five or seven step drop,
(36:31):
doesn't mean you don't have the arm strength or the
accuracy to make that throw. I remember asking Andy Reid
if he thought it was harder to evaluate Mahomes in
that spread offense than it would have been twenty years
ago when everyone was playing in like Pete Carroll at
usc right, running pro style offenses, And he said no,
he thought it was easier because if you're I'm just
(36:54):
picking a random number. Let's say on average, you're thrown
at forty five to fifty times a game. He said,
for Mahomes, for example, he just took out all the
quick screens, so any throw behind the line of scrimmage
they when he was evaluating, he just didn't watch. What's
the point, like, obviously he can make that throw. It's
I don't need to evaluate you off that throw, but
(37:15):
all the other throws, now your footwork, you're in the shotgun.
You might not be in the shotgun for similar plays,
but I can evaluate you as a thrower, or twenty
thirty years ago, you were playing in offenses that I
was gonna look something up. I was gonna go Brett
Favre college stats, and let's do Baker Mayfield college stats,
(37:46):
and let's do Jared Goff, Jared Goff college stats. So
Brett Farv in college. I'm just gonna use this as
an example. See if they even have his stat At
Southern Mississippi, he threw his senior year nineteen ninety two
(38:07):
hundred and seventy five passes. His junior year eighty nine,
he threw three hundred and eighty. In his sophomore year,
he threw three hundred and nineteen in eleven games. Baker Mayfield,
for example, Now he's going to play more games because
they were playing in Yeah, he's playing thirteen or fourteen. Actually,
Brett's probably a bad example. He Brett was actually throwing
(38:29):
it a lot. Looking at Baker Mayfield's Jared Goff threw
at five hundred, five hundred and thirty, Baker Mayfield was
four hundred, three fifty four hundred. Now I guess Oklahoma
was running the ball a lot. Let's use another guy.
Let's use Payton Manning Peyton, Manning college stats. I said
I was gonna be fat quick, but this is kind
(38:50):
of fascinating, So Peyton Manning got I mean, these guys
are throwing it a lot. Peyton Manning three hundred and eighty,
three hundred and eighty his senior year, four hundred and
seventy seven seven times nineteen ninety seven. Jared Goff twenty fifteen,
five hundred and twenty nine, so he threw it fifty
more times in the same amount of games. One left game.
(39:15):
So I I think guys sneaky throw it more than
you realize now, which your point being that their offense
parallels more what NFL teams do back in the day
in college under center. I think teams, you know, some
of these NFL teams shotguns a huge part of their operation.
(39:36):
So I mean Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, like Ranch shotgun
offenses in the in the prime of their career. Who
do you think the Chiefs are gonna draft. I think
it will be offensive weapons because of the Chiefs could
be more explosive. It would make other teams play differently.
Totally agree. I would guess they draft too often. I
think they're gonna be in the tight end business, and
(39:58):
I think they're gonna be in the running back business,
so I would expect offense as well. Wouldn't it make
more sense for the Titans to draft Hunter or Genty
they could get a quarterback in the second round or
take Cousins. I think they like cam Ward like they
think cam Ward can be. I mean, their head coach
(40:20):
was just around Joe Burrow and their GM was just
around Patrick Mahomes, so they have a pretty good idea
what a quarterback at a high level looks like. Their
offensive coordinator, Nick Holtz, was around Trevor Lawrence two years ago,
so I think they got a pretty good idea of
what they're looking for in a prospect. I would just
(40:45):
take cam Ward. I hear what you're saying. I would
rather have cam Ward than Ashton Genty. Everyone's like, you
hate I like Ashon Genty, but I'm also the way
I look at drafts might just be a little different
than everyone else. How do NFL gms receive multiple phone
calls and trade offers during the ten minutes to select
their pick in the draft? Are they the only ones
(41:07):
on the phone or is there a hotline or something
where they all are getting offers. I just don't understand
how these complex trades can mean negotiated and finalized so quick. Well,
any complex trade, and I've heard gms and people around
the league talk about this, are being negotiated in the
first round right now. So you are putting deals, at
(41:30):
least the parameters of deals in place. I'm recording this
on Wednesday. You did it on Monday. You did on Tuesday.
You have had these discussions. Anyone that has watched those
videos of like a front office, the GM has a
couple guys, his cap guy, maybe his assistant GM also
calling people. So it's like, hey, get a DaCosta on
(41:54):
the phone, Hey, get Howie on the phone. Hey get
John Lynch on the phone. Get Veach and A on
the phone. So you got other people working while I'm working,
because you're right, you can't do that. I also think
just the hard line which all these teams have in
the draft room. The cell phones are pretty like you
can text immediately, Like all these guys are texting each
(42:16):
other too. So yeah, it's a lot going on. It
is it's really intense. It's it's it's an intense environment.
Some guys, you know, I've seen how he just he's
comfortable in chaos. I mean, any Eagles fans that have
watched the stuff that the team puts out like, he's
just he's comfortable in that environment. He fucking likes it.
(42:38):
He lives for it. I think most guys like it, right,
most guys, all these gms, especially like the football guys,
like the guys that grew up loving football, And I
would put Howie in this category as well. Their number
one dream to be a GM. Like how Aw he's
(43:00):
a good example. He talks about, like, you know, his
dreams to win Super Bowls world because of the World Championships,
even though it's an American championship. It's always been a
pet peeve of mine. But like super Bowl, Super Bowl,
Super Bowls, their dream is a little kid to be
a GM is the draft. So it's like, yeah, I mean,
the point of the draft is to build the team
to win football games. But like when you desire or
(43:22):
aspire to be a general manager, it's sitting in that
seat and being on the clock. I mean, that's that's
the whole point, right, Just like if you aspire to
be a you know, a football coach, you probably aspire
to call plays I'm a Falcons fan. What do you
think about drafting Malachi Starks with our fifteenth pick instead
of an edge rusher. One thing I really liked about
(43:45):
our defense last year was having two absolute lockdown safeties
who always came in the clutch. With Simmons probably not
coming back, we'll be missing one of those safeties. Do
you think Leonard Floyd is enough for a pass rush
with maybe spending a second or a third round pick
on an edge rusher. Grady is also gone, which will
be another hit to our rush. Yeah, I mean I
(44:07):
would say historically, if you look at a lot of
starters at safety, do not get drafted in the first round. Obviously,
if there's an you know, Ed Reid, a Ronnie Lot,
I mean, an absolute game changing player. I don't even
know Ronning Lott was a little before my time in
the draft, but I'd assume Ronning Lott was the first
(44:28):
round pick. But you know a lot of guys that
play that position do not get drafted in the first
round that start in the NFL. So Ronning Lott was
the eighth pick. I assume that I would say that
I would take a defensive lineman in the first round
and take a safety on the second day of the draft.
(44:48):
Malchi Starks obviously had a great college career. He's a
big time player at Georgia. It would be difficult for
me to take a safety in the top fifteen. I'm
more pro linebacker. Like, if there's a great linebacker, I
have no problem taking Luke Keegley, Roquan Smith, those type
players in the top fifteen. Safety to me is a
little difficult. I would take pass rusher. It's easier for
(45:10):
a pass rush to make a safety look good than
a safety to make a shitty pass rush look good.
Just watch the movie Draft Day on Netflix. I love
(45:32):
Costner and the idea of the movie about the draft.
Holy shit, was it bad though not even Costner could
save it. Have you seen it? And if so, is
there anything in that movie that reminded you of something
that happened when you worked in the NFL. I have
seen it. It's been a long time now. I think
most people consider it the most unrealistic portrayal of reality ever.
(45:58):
And like you said, you don't even need to be
some former scout or coach. You know, that's no way
that's true. It's just not now. I think some realistic
aspect of it is like the coach and what's the
coach's name? He's the dude from the Firefighting Show on FX,
(46:19):
Dennis Leary, I think his name is. And Costner butted
heads a lot. I think that there's some truth to that,
those two positions not always being on the same page,
but the trading of picks and then trading him back.
I do think there's some validity also to getting to
know a guy was a bo Callahan, the quarterback that
(46:41):
no one showed up to his birthday like that. It
seems funny and we all laugh about it, but I
do think there's some truth to like, does anyone like
the quarterback? Let's use Baker Mayfield as an example. People
have loved that guy since college. It's why when the
situation he went through with Odell Beckham, it was like,
what's going on here? And do you know what? It
turned out? Probably more of an Odel issue than Baker
(47:04):
because people like Baker Mayfield a lot, and the value
you have as a quarterback. Everyone's looking at you, and
I think you see it around the league. Obviously the
star quarterbacks, but even that next tier guys like people
really like Jared goff. People really like Baker Mayfield, guys
really like Dak Prescott. I mean, it's it really really matters.
(47:27):
So do they come to your birthday? I mean, do
you even invite all these guys your birthday? I don't know,
but mail back question in their prime at their APEX
pound for pound career for career, who are you taking
Farvar Rogers in their apex Apex Farvel one three straight
MVPs and took a team back to back Super Bowls.
(47:49):
I think in their apex like the best of the best,
I would lean far Also factoring in the intangible stuff, Well,
we just talked about with Baker, with Mahomes, with Josh Allen,
with Lamar, I felt like not only the whole team,
the coaching staff and the city would run through a
wall for Brettfharv. And there are certain guys like that
(48:10):
in the history of the NFL. Tom Brady had that,
you know, Rogers, I don't know, does he not have that?
He didn't have it at the far level, and I
think the totality of his career his peak was longer.
But at their APEX, Marty morning Wig told me one
time he thought that Farv is the best player that
(48:31):
he'd ever seen. Now, this was twenty ten or eleven,
so I mean there have been great players since, but
Brady and Manning. I mean, the peak of Farv ninety six,
ninety seven, ninety eight was pretty freaking good. I heard
you in the pod talking about the youngest Heisman winner.
The youngest Heisman winner was Lamar Jackson at nineteen, followed
(48:54):
by Jamis. I think what I meant, I didn't mean
the actual age. I meant, you know, Lamar was a sophomore. Now,
technically he was a true sophomore. Johnny Manziel was the
youngest in terms of he was the first freshman to
win it, but he was a redshirt freshman. I think
same thing with Jamis. So to me, it's we're nitpicking there.
(49:17):
I hear what you're saying. Sophomore's true, true redshir freshman.
A true freshman has never won it. You know, Caleb
want it as a true sophomore. Forever, it was juniors
and seniors. Now it's obviously redshir freshman and sophomores win it.
But I hear what you're saying, because Lamar started as
a true freshman at Louisville I'm pretty sure. So he
wanted his second years as a starter. Johnny wanted his
(49:41):
first year starting though he red shirted the previous year.
That's what I was kind of alluding to, but I
appreciate those notes. My question for the pod, I'm a
Packer fan. In ninety nine, Holmgren left to take the
Seattle job in Green Bay hired Ray Rhodes. However, we
had Andy Read on the staff in nineteen ninety eight.
(50:02):
Do you think football history would have been different had
Read been hired instead of Roads? Would we have more
Super Bowls? Would Farv be viewed differently? Do you think
this could have changed how your career turned out as well? Uh? Well, yeah,
if you hire him at Green Bay, I think it's
(50:25):
fair to assume the Packers, Yeah, I mean I would
have been more bullish on Farv's two thousand's with the
Green Bay Packers. Obviously, they never get back to the
Super Bowl, never wins another MVP. I think he would
have played at a higher level. I mean, who would
you take Andy Reid or Ray Rhoades. So if you
just at its simplest terms, I think then Andy never
(50:47):
ends up as a Philadelphia Eagles head coach who knows
never ends up Kansas City now, like all things end
up ending, So maybe he is fired, but maybe it's
at a date when the Chiefs don't have an open
So yeah, I mean, anytime you do the butterfly effect,
I think it would impact everything. It would change the
landscape of the National Football League. Does donaldan McNabb get
(51:08):
drafted to Philadelphia? Who coaches the Eagles? Are the Eagles
any good? So yeah, I don't know how to quantify
wins losses, who wins Super Bowls, who doesn't, But it
would have had a dramatic impact on the National Football
League for sure, because you guys had a weird before Sherman.
Or was Mike Sherman there? Who was the coach Ray
(51:32):
Rhodes because McCarthy got there? And what O seven If
you were in charge of college football program at Oregon State,
what would you do to get the program back on track?
We finished the season ranked in the top twenty and
twenty two and twenty three, but with conference realignment, we
lost our head coach and most of our best players.
(51:52):
We just finished a huge stadium renovation and acquired Duke
transfer Malik Murphy, but it still seems like the program
is nowhere close to where it was pre conference realignment.
Do you have any ideas how to get a PAC
two program like Oregon State in a position to merit
and offer to join the major four conferences. This does
(52:15):
not bring me joy saying this. I'm not trying to
kick you while you're down. I was a small school guy.
It's not like I'm a USC Texas alum. I got
my start at Fresno State, which is essentially you're technically
still the PAC twelve, but you're a Mountain West school
as well. So I have a lot of admiration for
what goes into the smaller schools to even attempt to compete.
(52:40):
You have absolutely no shot in twenty twenty five. It
pains me to say that because unlike me, like going
to cal Pauly, you got to experience what it was
like to play in huge games against USC, the University
of Washington, the university your rival was the University of Oregon,
who's one of the best programs of the Internet era.
(53:00):
I mean that was your fucking rival. Excuse my language
for all the kids listening, but it's over. You got
no shot, absolutely none, and I think having Dickred on
the other day, Washington State's guy, and obviously Jonathan Smith.
Jonathan Smith, I mean, you know this, but who's now
(53:21):
the coach at Michigan State played quarterback at Oregon State,
and there was just like you think he wanted to
He's he's from LA. You think he wanted to go
to Michigan State to be a head coach, but he
couldn't stay because you can't compete, you can't keep players.
The schedule now relative to what it used to be,
(53:42):
is never going to be the same. And I think
you know what sucks being Oregon State in Washington State
who legitimately tried who you know, for the most part,
had high highs over the last decade, where UCLA has
been a joke. The only reason UCLA is in the
pack or in the big is because USC brought them along,
(54:02):
right because the LA market, not because of their football program.
Their football program is a laughingstock. It's why I think
Nico going there is say over and over as a joke,
leaving Tennessee to go to UCLA. But like you got
the short end of the stick where schools like UCLA
who did not do a good job benefited Hell even
(54:25):
like Arizona, Like you have been a much better football
program the University Arizona over the last twenty years. It's
not even close, and they get to go to the
Big twelve and you get nothing. It sucks. There's nothing
I can say besides it sucks and that there is
not a path. There really isn't because even if they
(54:46):
merge into these two conferences right like the NFL, NFCAFC
basically the Big Ten and the SEC. I don't see
how Oregon State gets involved. I really don't. I've heard
Colins say several times that Rosenhaus can be persuasive. That'd
be Drew Rosenhaus specifically talking about getting Abdull Carter drafted.
(55:09):
How is it possible for an agent, even if he's
a top dog in his profession, to get teams to
draft his clients when they're the ones spending numerous hours
and days evaluating players. Okay, this is the last question.
I think like A. I mean Abdul Carter's You could
argue he's the most talented guy in this draft because
(55:31):
of his skill playing pass rusher, elite bend speed, explosion,
tackling ability, range, Like he's an elite Rosenhaus just has
to sell you. Maybe on the doctor stuff, he's okay,
but like you said, the doctor who's an actual doctor
looks at the GM and the head coach and be like, yeah,
I don't feel comfortable. What can Drew tell you now?
(55:54):
Drew can get second opinions. I think it's more his
persuasion can be helping guys get more money in negotiations,
doing packaged deals, getting late round picks selected. But when
you're talking Abdual Carter, I don't think Drew has any
(56:16):
impact on that at all. And I have a ton
of respect Rosehouse elite is gig elite, But Abdual Carter,
maybe you know if you got like Roseman or you
know less Sneed or one of these guys on the phone.
I know Trent Balky has done I mean a lot
of deals with Rosehouse over the years. He definitely can
(56:39):
have an impact on maybe like a lower tier free
agent getting workouts for guys in the offseason who are unemployed,
but in a situation with like a top ten pick.
I think, especially in a day and age when the
money is slotted, so it's not one of those like
can we get the guy signed for those of you
(57:00):
that are young, like if you're like twenty two years old.
When I was a kid, a huge talking point was like,
if you had the top two or three pick, you
would negotiate with like four or five players and kind
of have an idea who we can sign and who
we can't. But those days are dead like that, there
is no negotiation, like this is the contract. Sign it.
Sign it, buddy, So I hear you. I don't think
(57:21):
with abdual Carter he has much juice. Now can he
just pitch the shit out of you with like a
fifth round guy, wear out your owner? He can do
that too, he can. One thing Drew would have is
he would have a direct line to thirty two owners.
So let me take a step back for a second
and rephrase where he has no juice. With the top pick,
(57:43):
he getting the owners here and at the end of
the day, the guy signing the check is the ultimate
decision maker. So if he can convince the owner to
pressure the yeah, So, now, can he impact a GM
on a top on the seventh pick in the draft?
Probably not? But what if the owner goes, well, you know,
I really like so and so, and Drew has been
(58:04):
wearing him out, maybe took him dinner, had a few cocktails.
So I think, listen all you guys listening in sales.
Some guys are just more persistent than others and can
just kind of talk it into talking into reality. And
I would say, Drew, you know, does Drew have an impact?
(58:26):
You know he's got Jalen Carter. If you've got Howie
and Drew with each a class of wine, Like what
role did Drew have in convincing Howie that everything was
going to be okay? When I was with the Eagles,
Drew had Shady and Deshaun, So it's like Howie and
Drew's relationship probably goes back fifteen twenty years. I would
(58:49):
imagine over the last three or four no player they
talked more about leading into a draft than Jalen Carter
and it's worked out pretty well. I would imagine Drew
war Howie just like every other GM, but it worked.
So maybe they have a bigger impact than I. Just
everything I said, take it all back. Maybe Drew. You know,
(59:12):
Drew did tell Ice to an Eskima. The volume
The volume, what is going on? Everybody? Happy Draft Day,
It's finally here the NFL. The Draft is today. Who
(00:26):
fired up? Man? I really am? So I did want
to dive in to just some big picture thoughts on tonight,
on the way that I view it, on something that
you know you're going to see a lot of over
the next couple of days, disappointment and why I think
you have to look at the class half full when
it comes to being selected, even if it's not where
(00:48):
you want to go as a player. Some of my
big stories coming into tonight when I'm most excited to
see play out. And then we're going to do a
rapid fire mail bag because obviously some of these questions
are going to be worthless after the first couple nights
of the draft. So that's a game plan today. Talk
a little draft, do a little mailbag at John Middlecoff.
(01:09):
We're gonna have content all weekend long on the YouTube page,
even some separate YouTube potentially you might do like a
happy hour on Friday before the draft on the second round,
be YouTube only, so you're gonna want to subscribe to
the YouTube page if you listen on Collins feed. We've
had some podcasts today that did not go on the feed.
(01:31):
If you want to keep up with all our football content,
make sure you subscribe to three and Now podcasts, Apple, Spotify,
wherever you listen to podcasts, we got you covered, so
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You know, I got to tell you about my friends,
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(01:52):
Game time. Do you want to go to a game?
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(02:14):
go to a pro basketball game or hockey game, obviously,
the playoffs are full speed ahead. Concert season. I love
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Download the game Time app today, last minute tickets, lowest
prices guaranteed the Draft. I have loved this event for
(03:01):
as long as I can remember. It's why I aspired
to work in the NFL. It's still I kind of
get a you know, it makes me feel like a
kid again right around this time. It's got a little
bit of a Christmas feel to it. I love the
excitement that fans get for their individual teams. I mean,
there's nothing more powerful you could argue in the world
(03:23):
than the power of hope and the belief that something
is going to create a positive change. And we are
disappointed often, but every once in a while, the draft
changes the team's fortunes for a long period of time.
And the best part about it is it could be
a fifth round pick, it could be a third round pick.
It's not obviously always your first round pick. That is
(03:46):
the guy that helps turn around your franchise, that becomes
the best player on your team, that becomes one of
the best players in the NFL. And it's why, to me,
one of the most important guiding principles I have when
discussing the draft. It's an economic exercise. And obviously you
(04:06):
are trying to pick talented players. But the best general
managers and the best front offices know how to balance
the ability to pay the right price for the asset,
and that's what you're doing. This basically becomes the stock market,
supply and demand. It's why I've taken a lot of
heat and a lot of people thought I was nuts.
(04:28):
Then I'm being critical of Ashton Genty, But I simply
look at it like an economic equation. If there are,
depending on the teams you talk to, eight to ten
guys that are going to be starters in the NFL
at running back, and some teams think that there are
going to be four or five high end starters at
that position. Even if you value Genty as the number
(04:50):
one running back in the class, which I would imagine
that is, I don't know if it's universal, but probably
ninety ninety five percent of teams have him ranked as
the number one guy. If you're the Jacksonville Jaguars, if
you're the Vegas Raiders and you're drafting fifth or six,
you could easily take them and no one will complain
and you'll get an A on your draft grade and
fans will be really excited. But are you better off
(05:13):
using that capital, which is very valuable capital, a fifth, sixth, seventh,
whatever in the top ten on a position that historically
gets harder and harder to draft as we go through
the rounds offensive lineman, defensive lineman, and use your second
round pick or your third round pick on that position
(05:36):
where historically you're able to find a ton of starters
at running back in the later rounds, but specifically in
this draft that it's basically an objective opinion, and it's
no one's arguing with anyone going it's loaded at that position.
Making a decision going, you know what, we're gonna get
(05:56):
that guy later. I see it all the time with
wide receivers that DK Metcalf, AJ Brown, Terry McLaurin. A
lot of guys get draft in the second, third, fourth round,
go on to be Pro Bowl level players. So you
can use a pick. If you have a top fifteen pick,
even if you need a wide receiver, get that guy
(06:16):
in the second or third or the fourth round. Hell
take two wide receivers over the course of your entire draft.
And listen, I was around Howie Roseman, and I would
say no one is better at navigating the landscape of
knowing what do I have to pay for the guy?
And when it comes to the draft, that's based on
(06:37):
draft picks. So if I have the tenth pick and
I really really like a guy, if I have the
opportunity to go from ten to seventeen, can I still
get the same player that I would have taken at ten.
No one knows, but it is the general manager's job
to have a pretty good idea of go, Yeah, I
(06:57):
think we got an eighty percent chance of going to
set and getting that player. And even if we don't
get that player, there are two other guys that we
would highly consider taking it pick ten, that we would
love to take at seventeen while also adding maybe a
third round pick. It's why when people push back on
my gent arguments, which again I am pro ashon genty
(07:19):
excellent player I just couldn't take him in the top ten,
not when I know that there are a ton of
other guys at that position I could easily draft in
the top one hundred that can start for me at
running back, while I also get a high end defensive lineman,
a high end offensive lineman, which we just learned by
Howie Roseman is the way to build a championship team.
(07:41):
Dominate in the trenches. It was ultimately the downfall of
the Kansas City Chiefs, the reason that they didn't win
three straight Super Bowls, which easily could have happened. But
they couldn't block anybody, and it's difficult to find starting
offensive tackles in the third and fourth round. Doesn't mean
you can't, but more than likely you won't. And I
(08:05):
think when you look at this draft, you have to
understand that it's going to be tough to trade. So
I'm not crushing any team that takes a guy like
that guy was overdrafted. What we would love to do
is to move back six or seven spots. No one
would make a trade with us. But I also think
teams that don't understand the value of players, and this
(08:27):
became the downfall of Bill Belichick in the last couple
of years of his run in New England. Is he
was taking guys in the second or third round that
he could have gotten the fifth or sixth. And that's
on him as the general manager to understand the value
of these individuals. And some teams don't like their scouts
(08:47):
or their front office, including coaches, when they do these
evaluations to put grades in terms of what round the
guy is going to get drafted on. I've always thought
that was kind of stupid. That's the whole ex size
that we're doing is like is this guy a third
round pick or is he a first round pick? Because
if he's a guy that we can get in the
third round, that most teams are gonna view that way.
(09:10):
We would be insane to use pick twenty two on
this player when even if we wanted to quote unquote
overdraft overpay, take them in the second round and add
another player in the first round instead of wasting all
that capital on a guy that is not worth that
relative to the NFL. And I also think another thing
(09:31):
smart teams will do is understanding the future draft. So
this draft is widely considered not a great one. I
think Diane Russini had a quote today from a coach
that there aren't a lot of Robert de Niro's in
this draft, aka, not a lot of stars. So when
there aren't a lot of stars and it's not a
(09:52):
powerful draft, it doesn't mean that these guys aren't going
to be excellent players. We'll get into that in a second.
What it does mean is, based on their college performance,
a lot of people don't see superstar potential in a
lot of players. Some years. It's like, and we've talked
about this over the last couple of weeks, that in
a good draft you should have over twenty guys graded
(10:13):
as first round picks. It's very, very difficult to get
thirty to thirty five players in a draft that most
teams are going to have created as first round picks.
Some years they'll be fifteen, some years they'll be twenty.
In a really good draft, they'll be twenty three to
twenty four guys. I think it's fair to assume that
in this draft some teams might have it in single digits.
(10:35):
It doesn't mean that they don't like other players that
will get draft in the first round. They will just
have those guys valued. If it was last year. Yeah,
take that guy at thirty eight, don't love him at eighteen.
And it's on the GM to understand this. And if
you ever get the opportunity, especially teams that need quarterbacks,
to make a trade on a future first round pick
(10:56):
that can change your franchise, now it's on you to
then nail the pick. The Giants a couple of years
ago from the Chicago Bears got a future first round
pick to go from eleven to twenty. Remember the one
year how your roseman had all those first round picks
and it was in a good draft and he was
able to accumulate picks and trade for aj Brown and
end up moving up for Jalen Carter. Like, the more
(11:17):
assets you have, the more flexibility you are given on
a yearly basis. And I'm always fascinated by the teams
who are best at maneuvering up and down and the
ones that are and understand the value of the players
typically are the teams that consistently win the other thing.
(11:40):
And I think this resonates with any human being. Where
you start in life, whether that's where you grow up,
whether that's where you go to school, whether that's your
first job, does not determine the success for the rest
of your life. Obviously, there are situations if you go
to a private school growing up, if you go to
(12:03):
a good college, if you are given a great job
out of college because of someone you know, it can
set you up on the right path. But then for
most people, including athletes, just because you're the number one
overall pick, that does not guarantee you a goddamn thing.
And there are going to be a ton of players
(12:24):
over the next seven rounds of this draft, but specifically
after the first round moving its way toward Day three,
who are going to be devastated. It really sucks getting
drafted in the fourth round when you thought you could
go in the second round, when you end up going
in the second round and you're like, I wanted to
be a first round pick. But at the end of
(12:44):
the day, it is on you once training camp happens,
once OTA's happen, obviously, once the season happens, and moving
forward to separate yourself. And the best part about football
more than all the other sports a little bit because
of the minor leagues, but definitely different than basketball that
(13:04):
every year we see an undrafted free agent, multiple undrafted
free agents, not only make NFL teams. I think on average,
an undrafted free agent makes every team. The bad teams
typically sometimes have like three or four guys make the team. Well,
they're making the team typically because they're beating out guys
who were just drafted. Who guys that were drafted in
(13:25):
the fourth, fifth, sixth round, not even just in this
immediate draft, but maybe last year draft that spend time
on the practice squad. And while it's cliche and people
laugh at it, you're either getting better or worse. No
one stays the same. And that video that went viral
for a long long time and still a meme of
Tom Brady with the long hair talking to Steve Sable
(13:47):
at NFL Films, crying about how difficult draft day was
because he went on a walk with his dad. He
didn't get drafted a sixth round. I saw a clip
the other day from Brian Branch, the star kind of
safety Nickel Do It All dB for the Detroit Lions,
who played at Alabama, who said Draft Knight was one
(14:07):
of the worst Knights of his professional in football career.
Thought he was a first round pick, thought he was
like a first round lock. He ended up not going
till pick forty five, and now several years later in
the NFL, he's widely considered one of the Swiss Army
Knights of defensive football and one of the better players
on one of the better teams in the league. And
(14:29):
I think sometimes when you fall, Lamar Jackson fell hell.
The Ravens took another guy in the first round before
they even selected Lamar Jackson. I'd say it worked out
pretty well for him. Look at Baker Bayfield and Sam Darnold.
While both of them are making a lot of money now,
they didn't exactly benefit from going to the Cleveland Browns
and the New York Jets, and ultimately their early failures
(14:53):
and turbulent starts did not end their careers. Now, I
will never argue that starting out being of the seventh
overall pick is better than being the seventy seventh overall pick.
Especially financially, you're guaranteed a ton of money. You are
given a four year guaranteed contract. The pressure on the
(15:17):
organization and the coaching staff for using that valuable asset
on you forces them to give you more opportunities, and
that branding of being a top pick, especially a top ten,
top fifteen pick, stays with you even after it should
be irrelevant four or five, six years later. It's like, well,
this guy was a really high pick and we liked
(15:39):
him coming out. Well, yeah, have you seen him play?
He stinks It happens all the time. Help. Daniel Jones
just got fifteen million dollars from the Indianapolis Colts. If
Daniel Jones hadn't been the sixth overall pick and had
been the one hundred and sixty six pick, probably doesn't
go that way. Trey Lance is a good example. I
(16:00):
thought he'd be out of the league, but he was
a top five pick, and even Jim Harbaugh and the
Chargers gave him one point five million dollars guaranteed this
year to compete for the backup quarterback job. If he
had been a sixth round pick, that's not happening. So
getting drafted high does stay with you and present more opportunities,
(16:23):
But just because opportunities are presented, it doesn't mean a
goddamn thing. And the amount the league is full of
George Kittles and Max Crosby's and guys that are drafted
on the third day of the draft on every team
that are some of the best players in the league,
some of the highest paid players in the league. Hell,
(16:45):
guys that are drafted at the end of the first
round that are the sixth to seventh guy at their
own position on Thursday night go on to be the
best individual at that position in their draft. Happens every year,
if not every other year. And the thing that I
admire most about this sport is how difficult it is,
(17:06):
how hard it is mentally physically, how much goes into
this being successful. And obviously tomorrow night and over the
next couple nights are really cool, and all these teams
add all these players, but then once practice starts, they
don't even necessarily start at the same spot because when
(17:27):
you're first and second round pick, you are more likely
to get the opportunity to run with the ones. At minimum,
you're running with the twos. But over the course of
the next twelve months twenty four months, if you do
not perform, if you do not play well, if you
do not make place, if you do not know what
you're doing and other guys do, you will get lapped.
(17:50):
Because the nature of this sport, the amount of guys
that get injured, the cycling of backups and practice squatters
getting opportunities over the course of the seas isn't potentially
gonna happen, it's it's a guaranteed outcome. Guys end up playing,
and when you end up playing, the film is your resume.
(18:12):
And that's how people that like, oh, how did this guy?
Not in a million years did anyone think when brock
Purty was the last pick in the draft he would
be the starting quarterback for the Niners as a rookie
in the playoffs. But then one guy breaks his ankle,
another guy breaks his foot, and all of a sudden
he's starting. Then all of a sudden he's doing good.
(18:32):
Then several years later he's in negotiations for a contract
somewhere between probably one hundred and twenty five and one
hundred and ninety million dollars guaranteed. Obviously that's a big difference,
but we are talking an astronomical amount of money for
a guy that was the last pick in the draft
just a couple of years ago. And he's an example
(18:54):
I used because he plays quarterback, but there are examples
like him all over the place. The Eagles starting left
tackle had never played NFL football, came from Australia several
years later, Jeff Stoutlin coaches him up. Jason Peters is
gone and now he's one of the best left tackles
(19:14):
in the league. In all the paths, all of our
pass to get wherever we're going, are never going to
be the same. My path is different than your path,
is different than the next guy's path, but we control
a decent amount of it, and it's easy to get
down when shit doesn't go our way, just like it
is easy to pout if you get drafted in the
(19:36):
fourth round and you go, shit, I think I'm better
than like eighty percent of the guys at my position
that just got drafted over me over the last three rounds.
This is insane. I had to fall fifty picks the
end of the day. It was out of your control
where you ended up going. And who cares when that ball.
If you're a running back gets handed off to you,
(19:56):
go make some plays and you'll be fine. If you're
a wide receiver, get open and the ball will come
your way. If you're a linebacker, go make some freaking tackles,
and when you do, you'll be rewarded for it because
you'll play and then all of a sudden, we'll look
back and be like god, guy was drafting the fifth
round he had an eleven year career, and three guys
at his position were drafting the first and second round.
(20:17):
They didn't even make it five years. Because the average
lifespan of an NFL player is like a little over
three years, and we see it all the time. That
factors in first round picks as well, so buckle up.
Obviously it's to be a huge story who falls, who doesn't.
But I'm fascinated by what happens going forward, not what
(20:39):
happened based on the past. And that's all the draft is.
It's you're drafted based on what you've done. Once you
get drafted, no one gives a shit anymore. I did
want to hit on a couple of things that I'm
most fascinated on going moving forward over the next couple nights.
The stories to me that are by far, like I
find the most interesting, and I don't think it's debatable
(21:01):
the number one story in this draft, and listen, after
a while you get tired of talking about it. But
then the draft comes, like where should Door Sanders is
gonna go? Are all these teams that need a quarterback?
The Browns, the Giants, the Steelers just not gonna draft
a quarterback in the first round. Even if they don't
draft a quarterback, especially the Browns and the Giants really
(21:24):
high in the draft. Do either of them trade back up?
Do they like quarterbacks other than Shador Sanders or Jackson Dart?
Are we sure that is only one quarterback going to
go in the first round? Are those two guys gonna
go with cam Ward as well? How many guys are
gonna go in the first three rounds? Like Kyle McCord,
(21:47):
the Louisville quarterback who's older than Brock Purty, Will Howard,
Riley Leonard, all these quarterbacks that we watched play in
college this year and have a lot of success. Are
any of them gonna get drafted in the second or
third round? Because we have seen in recent memory a
lot of guys that get drafted in the second and
third round either become immediate starters or become a starter
(22:10):
rafter a year or two and have a long careers.
So listen, quarterbacks are always going to drive the draft.
This one has a little bit less sizzle, but there
are a lot of names, and there are some marquee teams.
I mean, in theory, the Giants are one of the
biggest brands in all of the NFL, and they have
been terrible atrocious for over a decade. I mean really
(22:33):
really bad. I mean back to back years them drafting
really high. That's that ain't good, especially in a division
where the Eagles just won the Super Bowl and they've
been in the playoffs three straight years, two of the
last three years in the Super Bowl. The Cowboys had
a stretch where they won three straight years of twelve
plus games, and they had an awful year this year
(22:53):
and they're drafting twelve And the Commanders, who have kind
of been one of the running jokes of the league,
just made the conference Championshi and I would say if
they were a stock, everyone were divested them. So I'm
fascinated to watch with the Giants Stewart quarterback, I'd be
a little stunned if they don't take a guy with
their first couple of picks. But you know who knows,
and listen, you guys know where I stand on the
(23:17):
running back situation. But just because I don't necessarily believe
it's the right thing to do doesn't mean it's not
gonna happen. So is Ashton genty I saw a headline today, Jacks,
they're leading an offense. Would they take Ashton Genty? Once
upon a time they took a running back really high.
It's safe to say they regretted it pretty quick. And
that guy's name was Leonard Fournette, who was the number
(23:38):
one running back prospect in high school football, went to LSU,
became a stud. Now I'll never forget the game that
he had against Alabama, got exposed a little bit, but
did not live up to the hype. And Ashton Genty
was coming from a much smaller school. Would they do that?
Would the Patriots entertain him at four? I have a
(23:58):
hard time vrabel who former player, high level player, massive dude,
who's success as a coach happened with the just a
massive blue chip running back. Everyone's like, why do you
keep talking about his height? I don't know, because it'd
be difficult for me to draft a five eight guy
in the top five. Call me crazy, you know, call
me alone, but I just I think that's that's nuts.
(24:23):
But I'm prepared for him to go really really high
and fascinating to watch how that goes down. Makes Brad
Holmes if he does go pick four or five, six, seven,
Whenever look like a genius for not only getting a
awesome running back at pick twelve, but accumulating another pick
and getting Laporta. This essentially became a two for one.
(24:44):
So where does Asin Genti go? And Yeah, I mean
I think he will immediately be one of the more
fascinating guys from this draft moving forward. And then I
just think, from a big picture standpoint, how many famous
veteran players get traded? I think it starts with Jalen Ramsey.
Is do you want him? Come get him? Tyreek Hill?
(25:06):
Is Tyrek Hill going to get traded over the next
couple of days? Would anyone trade for him? Given some
of the stuff that's going on off the field with him?
Obviously the two kind of famous tight ends, they're not
even hiding their teams Dallas Goddter Mark Andrews like are
one of these guys? Are both of them going to
get dealt? I think it's pretty clear that teams that
(25:29):
like Tyler Warren and teams that like Loveland from Michigan,
if you don't land one of those guys and you're
not comfortable with other guys in this draft, would you
pull the trigger and trade for one of these guys,
because I think there's a decent chance that by the
end of the weekend, both these two tight ends are
on other teams. And obviously there are a bunch of
other names that maybe we don't see coming that are
(25:50):
going to get dealt. And I think when you look
at quarterback, obviously Aaron Rodgers a free agent, is Kirk
Cousin's going to get traded over the next couple of days,
because you got to give him some credit, Everyone's well,
he's not gonna show up to OTA's even Rahee Morris
was like, we don't expect him to be there, and
Kirk Cousins like, screw you, I'll be there. Yeah, I'm
a high level cat. I can handle a little controversy.
(26:10):
See you there. Tuesday he was there. And is he
just trying to act in good faith, trying to show
the league that, like, listen, I'm a total team guy.
If I got to be the backup for twenty seven
and a half million dollars, I'll be the highest paid
backup in the history of the league. Obviously, we have
seen starters get bench that made a lot of money,
but I don't We've never seen a backup going into
a going into a OTAs that makes almost thirty million dollars.
(26:35):
So would the Falcons trade him if someone is not
willing to eat any of the money. Are they adamant
that someone's got to eat ten million dollars and essentially
get cousins on like a one year, ten million dollar contract.
But a lot of these big name guys and a
lot of famous players, Now just because you're famous doesn't
mean you can play anymore. Are gonna get traded over
(26:56):
the next couple of days. Okay, before we get out
of here, I gotta welcome you to Chasing Challenges brought
to you by Microsoft in the NFL. Just like in
the business world, overcoming obstacles is key to success. Microsoft
empowers busin decision makers with AI solutions, simplified cloud and
data management, and trustworthy, responsible technology to turn challenges and opportunities.
(27:21):
In this segment, we will explore some of the biggest
challenges being faced in the NFL in how they can
be overcome. Whatever the challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you
with the expertise to say bring it on. This week,
we're discussing the challenge faced by all these NFL teams
drafting is hard. It's not an exact science because you're
(27:41):
dealing with human beings. I saw this quote from Kyle
Shanahan that I thought kind of summed up why this
thing is so difficult. And all these teams are wrestling
right now with how do we balance this guy's talent
with this guy the person, Because at the end of
the day, you are not drafting the player just on
(28:01):
the field, You're drafting the human being in your building.
Here's a quote from Kyle Shanahan for my guy, Matt
Barrows's article in The Athletic. There are some guys who
are rough around the edges, Shanahan said, but they work
their asses off and football is everything. You just put
them around the right type guys and they'll thrive because
(28:22):
they love football. If they're talented and there are some
issues and they don't love football, it never works out.
I think that sums it all up. And all these
teams are trying to get to the bottom of all
these players. How much do you love football? How much
do you love this sport? Are you just doing it
(28:44):
for the money, are you just doing it for the fame?
Are you just doing it because God gave you these
great gifts that most people don't have, and that has
enabled you to play college football at a high level.
Because if that's the reason, not because you love everything
that the sport's about, the practice, the grind, the lifting,
the film preparation. You practice way more than you play.
(29:06):
Most guys in the NFL bust and don't work out,
not because they don't have the ability. Most guys they're
going to be drafted, not just in the first round,
but all the way through the four, fifth, sixth, seventh
round have special physical attributes, awesome characteristics that translate to
the NFL. But do they have the intangibles, the toughness,
(29:29):
the mental fortitude, the love of this profession that they're
now being drafted into. Some guys do, and they will
go on to be some of the best players in
the league. And the guys that don't will get exposed
really really quick. That's it for this week's Chasing challenges.
Remember Microsoft's AI solutions empowers you to take bold steps
(29:52):
and make informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive
your business forward. With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you
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Speaker 1 (32:09):
Okay, let's do a little quick middle coop mail bag.
We're gonna have to go draft rapid fire style because
this is not gonna have that big of a shelf
life obviously with the draft literally today, so I'm not
gonna I'll try to be quicker than than normal. We
will start with read Sanders, draft odds have gone from
(32:30):
over under pick eight and a half Saints nine, I think,
to over one hundred twenty one point five. Curious about
your thoughts on as possible slide. The Palissar article didn't help,
I would say by April twenty third, or is when
the Palasaro article came out, so the day before the draft,
(32:51):
I didn't read it. I honestly, I didn't even know
there was an article today. Nothing in that article, if
it's I guess I did see a headline by UH
pro Football talk about negative, talk about whatever. There is
nothing that a team that was interested in drafting Shador
Sanders did not know reading in that article, and if
(33:15):
there was, then the team's clueless. But I think it's
fair to say that any team that was very interested
in Shadoor, there's nothing there learning from an article the
week of the draft. So it's more about the landscape
of teams not drafting them high, not because of anything
(33:36):
you know written in an article. But I hear what
you're saying. I also think that I don't know. I
can't speak to the betting markets in terms of draft
selection what could significantly change, But I do not think
it's an article could be wrong. I'm not saying I'm
one hundred percent know that, but I don't think what
(33:56):
do you think of giving players at the draft a
chain to skip a team or two. As a rookie,
you have no say in what team you would like
to join. Only top college players. They go to the
worst teams in the NFL, and sometimes their careers are
dying there. Hear what you're saying. This is kind of
like it's a little different but similar vein of the
(34:20):
lottery with the draft. Obviously, this is more more of
like a bold step. I just don't think the NFL
is that interested in messing with the lottery odds. Situations
like I don't have to go play there because not
because my dad doesn't want me to go there, like
Arch and Eli, but because I have this card that
(34:40):
I can pull, Like don't want to play for Jacksonville.
I would rather go to Vegas like that. They're never
doing that. A big big Charger fan and big Middlecoff fan.
I like this guy. With that being said, who do
you think the Chargers will should take their first and
second round picks. I'm hoping for Loveland and and Trayvon Henderson.
(35:02):
If you ended up with a sweet tight end and
the sweet running back, that'd be pretty good. I do
think the Chiefs brought in Henderson. I forget I saw
a headline whether they had a call with them or
they flew him to Kansas City. But I do think
he'd be in play for Kansas City as well. I
don't think he will be there when the Chargers have
their second round pick. I think you guys are going offense,
(35:27):
so this guy's basically just complaining about taking defensive an
offensive linement. I'd feel pretty good. Like one of Jim
Harbaugh's best assets last year and definitely this year still
is that he knows these guys so well. He's recruited
all these players, He's coached against them, so like Levelin
(35:48):
was his guy Henderson, Like he knows these guys, so
does his defensive coordinator has coached against these guys. So
I'd be confident going into this draft about harbass knowledge
of these players. Is it tough for these days to
evaluate quarterbacks with so many college programs running non traditional
NFL style offenses. How do you know a guy can
(36:10):
run a pro style offense when they've barely been asked
to assess those situations or make those throws in college. Well,
just because you get to a throw, maybe in a
shotgun situation in a Texas Tech Air raid situation different
than under center in a five or seven step drop,
(36:31):
doesn't mean you don't have the arm strength or the
accuracy to make that throw. I remember asking Andy Reid
if he thought it was harder to evaluate Mahomes in
that spread offense than it would have been twenty years
ago when everyone was playing in like Pete Carroll at
usc right, running pro style offenses, And he said no,
he thought it was easier because if you're I'm just
(36:54):
picking a random number. Let's say on average, you're thrown
at forty five to fifty times a game. He said,
for Mahomes, for example, he just took out all the
quick screens, so any throw behind the line of scrimmage
they when he was evaluating, he just didn't watch. What's
the point, like, obviously he can make that throw. It's
I don't need to evaluate you off that throw, but
(37:15):
all the other throws, now your footwork, you're in the shotgun.
You might not be in the shotgun for similar plays,
but I can evaluate you as a thrower, or twenty
thirty years ago, you were playing in offenses that I
was gonna look something up. I was gonna go Brett
Favre college stats, and let's do Baker Mayfield college stats,
(37:46):
and let's do Jared Goff, Jared Goff college stats. So
Brett Farv in college. I'm just gonna use this as
an example. See if they even have his stat At
Southern Mississippi, he threw his senior year nineteen ninety two
(38:07):
hundred and seventy five passes. His junior year eighty nine,
he threw three hundred and eighty. In his sophomore year,
he threw three hundred and nineteen in eleven games. Baker Mayfield,
for example, Now he's going to play more games because
they were playing in Yeah, he's playing thirteen or fourteen. Actually,
Brett's probably a bad example. He Brett was actually throwing
(38:29):
it a lot. Looking at Baker Mayfield's Jared Goff threw
at five hundred, five hundred and thirty, Baker Mayfield was
four hundred, three fifty four hundred. Now I guess Oklahoma
was running the ball a lot. Let's use another guy.
Let's use Payton Manning Peyton, Manning college stats. I said
I was gonna be fat quick, but this is kind
(38:50):
of fascinating, So Peyton Manning got I mean, these guys
are throwing it a lot. Peyton Manning three hundred and eighty,
three hundred and eighty his senior year, four hundred and
seventy seven seven times nineteen ninety seven. Jared Goff twenty fifteen,
five hundred and twenty nine, so he threw it fifty
more times in the same amount of games. One left game.
(39:15):
So I I think guys sneaky throw it more than
you realize now, which your point being that their offense
parallels more what NFL teams do back in the day
in college under center. I think teams, you know, some
of these NFL teams shotguns a huge part of their operation.
(39:36):
So I mean Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, like Ranch shotgun
offenses in the in the prime of their career. Who
do you think the Chiefs are gonna draft. I think
it will be offensive weapons because of the Chiefs could
be more explosive. It would make other teams play differently.
Totally agree. I would guess they draft too often. I
think they're gonna be in the tight end business, and
(39:58):
I think they're gonna be in the running back business,
so I would expect offense as well. Wouldn't it make
more sense for the Titans to draft Hunter or Genty
they could get a quarterback in the second round or
take Cousins. I think they like cam Ward like they
think cam Ward can be. I mean, their head coach
(40:20):
was just around Joe Burrow and their GM was just
around Patrick Mahomes, so they have a pretty good idea
what a quarterback at a high level looks like. Their
offensive coordinator, Nick Holtz, was around Trevor Lawrence two years ago,
so I think they got a pretty good idea of
what they're looking for in a prospect. I would just
(40:45):
take cam Ward. I hear what you're saying. I would
rather have cam Ward than Ashton Genty. Everyone's like, you
hate I like Ashon Genty, but I'm also the way
I look at drafts might just be a little different
than everyone else. How do NFL gms receive multiple phone
calls and trade offers during the ten minutes to select
their pick in the draft? Are they the only ones
(41:07):
on the phone or is there a hotline or something
where they all are getting offers. I just don't understand
how these complex trades can mean negotiated and finalized so quick. Well,
any complex trade, and I've heard gms and people around
the league talk about this, are being negotiated in the
first round right now. So you are putting deals, at
(41:30):
least the parameters of deals in place. I'm recording this
on Wednesday. You did it on Monday. You did on Tuesday.
You have had these discussions. Anyone that has watched those
videos of like a front office, the GM has a
couple guys, his cap guy, maybe his assistant GM also
calling people. So it's like, hey, get a DaCosta on
(41:54):
the phone, Hey, get Howie on the phone. Hey get
John Lynch on the phone. Get Veach and A on
the phone. So you got other people working while I'm working,
because you're right, you can't do that. I also think
just the hard line which all these teams have in
the draft room. The cell phones are pretty like you
can text immediately, Like all these guys are texting each
(42:16):
other too. So yeah, it's a lot going on. It
is it's really intense. It's it's it's an intense environment.
Some guys, you know, I've seen how he just he's
comfortable in chaos. I mean, any Eagles fans that have
watched the stuff that the team puts out like, he's
just he's comfortable in that environment. He fucking likes it.
(42:38):
He lives for it. I think most guys like it, right,
most guys, all these gms, especially like the football guys,
like the guys that grew up loving football, And I
would put Howie in this category as well. Their number
one dream to be a GM. Like how Aw he's
(43:00):
a good example. He talks about, like, you know, his
dreams to win Super Bowls world because of the World Championships,
even though it's an American championship. It's always been a
pet peeve of mine. But like super Bowl, Super Bowl,
Super Bowls, their dream is a little kid to be
a GM is the draft. So it's like, yeah, I mean,
the point of the draft is to build the team
to win football games. But like when you desire or
(43:22):
aspire to be a general manager, it's sitting in that
seat and being on the clock. I mean, that's that's
the whole point, right, Just like if you aspire to
be a you know, a football coach, you probably aspire
to call plays I'm a Falcons fan. What do you
think about drafting Malachi Starks with our fifteenth pick instead
of an edge rusher. One thing I really liked about
(43:45):
our defense last year was having two absolute lockdown safeties
who always came in the clutch. With Simmons probably not
coming back, we'll be missing one of those safeties. Do
you think Leonard Floyd is enough for a pass rush
with maybe spending a second or a third round pick
on an edge rusher. Grady is also gone, which will
be another hit to our rush. Yeah, I mean I
(44:07):
would say historically, if you look at a lot of
starters at safety, do not get drafted in the first round. Obviously,
if there's an you know, Ed Reid, a Ronnie Lot,
I mean, an absolute game changing player. I don't even
know Ronning Lott was a little before my time in
the draft, but I'd assume Ronning Lott was the first
(44:28):
round pick. But you know a lot of guys that
play that position do not get drafted in the first
round that start in the NFL. So Ronning Lott was
the eighth pick. I assume that I would say that
I would take a defensive lineman in the first round
and take a safety on the second day of the draft.
(44:48):
Malchi Starks obviously had a great college career. He's a
big time player at Georgia. It would be difficult for
me to take a safety in the top fifteen. I'm
more pro linebacker. Like, if there's a great linebacker, I
have no problem taking Luke Keegley, Roquan Smith, those type
players in the top fifteen. Safety to me is a
little difficult. I would take pass rusher. It's easier for
(45:10):
a pass rush to make a safety look good than
a safety to make a shitty pass rush look good.
Just watch the movie Draft Day on Netflix. I love
(45:32):
Costner and the idea of the movie about the draft.
Holy shit, was it bad though not even Costner could
save it. Have you seen it? And if so, is
there anything in that movie that reminded you of something
that happened when you worked in the NFL. I have
seen it. It's been a long time now. I think
most people consider it the most unrealistic portrayal of reality ever.
(45:58):
And like you said, you don't even need to be
some former scout or coach. You know, that's no way
that's true. It's just not now. I think some realistic
aspect of it is like the coach and what's the
coach's name? He's the dude from the Firefighting Show on FX,
(46:19):
Dennis Leary, I think his name is. And Costner butted
heads a lot. I think that there's some truth to that,
those two positions not always being on the same page,
but the trading of picks and then trading him back.
I do think there's some validity also to getting to
know a guy was a bo Callahan, the quarterback that
(46:41):
no one showed up to his birthday like that. It
seems funny and we all laugh about it, but I
do think there's some truth to like, does anyone like
the quarterback? Let's use Baker Mayfield as an example. People
have loved that guy since college. It's why when the
situation he went through with Odell Beckham, it was like,
what's going on here? And do you know what? It
turned out? Probably more of an Odel issue than Baker
(47:04):
because people like Baker Mayfield a lot, and the value
you have as a quarterback. Everyone's looking at you, and
I think you see it around the league. Obviously the
star quarterbacks, but even that next tier guys like people
really like Jared goff. People really like Baker Mayfield, guys
really like Dak Prescott. I mean, it's it really really matters.
(47:27):
So do they come to your birthday? I mean, do
you even invite all these guys your birthday? I don't know,
but mail back question in their prime at their APEX
pound for pound career for career, who are you taking
Farvar Rogers in their apex Apex Farvel one three straight
MVPs and took a team back to back Super Bowls.
(47:49):
I think in their apex like the best of the best,
I would lean far Also factoring in the intangible stuff, Well,
we just talked about with Baker, with Mahomes, with Josh Allen,
with Lamar, I felt like not only the whole team,
the coaching staff and the city would run through a
wall for Brettfharv. And there are certain guys like that
(48:10):
in the history of the NFL. Tom Brady had that,
you know, Rogers, I don't know, does he not have that?
He didn't have it at the far level, and I
think the totality of his career his peak was longer.
But at their APEX, Marty morning Wig told me one
time he thought that Farv is the best player that
(48:31):
he'd ever seen. Now, this was twenty ten or eleven,
so I mean there have been great players since, but
Brady and Manning. I mean, the peak of Farv ninety six,
ninety seven, ninety eight was pretty freaking good. I heard
you in the pod talking about the youngest Heisman winner.
The youngest Heisman winner was Lamar Jackson at nineteen, followed
(48:54):
by Jamis. I think what I meant, I didn't mean
the actual age. I meant, you know, Lamar was a sophomore. Now,
technically he was a true sophomore. Johnny Manziel was the
youngest in terms of he was the first freshman to
win it, but he was a redshirt freshman. I think
same thing with Jamis. So to me, it's we're nitpicking there.
(49:17):
I hear what you're saying. Sophomore's true, true redshir freshman.
A true freshman has never won it. You know, Caleb
want it as a true sophomore. Forever, it was juniors
and seniors. Now it's obviously redshir freshman and sophomores win it.
But I hear what you're saying, because Lamar started as
a true freshman at Louisville I'm pretty sure. So he
wanted his second years as a starter. Johnny wanted his
(49:41):
first year starting though he red shirted the previous year.
That's what I was kind of alluding to, but I
appreciate those notes. My question for the pod, I'm a
Packer fan. In ninety nine, Holmgren left to take the
Seattle job in Green Bay hired Ray Rhodes. However, we
had Andy Read on the staff in nineteen ninety eight.
(50:02):
Do you think football history would have been different had
Read been hired instead of Roads? Would we have more
Super Bowls? Would Farv be viewed differently? Do you think
this could have changed how your career turned out as well? Uh? Well, yeah,
if you hire him at Green Bay, I think it's
(50:25):
fair to assume the Packers, Yeah, I mean I would
have been more bullish on Farv's two thousand's with the
Green Bay Packers. Obviously, they never get back to the
Super Bowl, never wins another MVP. I think he would
have played at a higher level. I mean, who would
you take Andy Reid or Ray Rhoades. So if you
just at its simplest terms, I think then Andy never
(50:47):
ends up as a Philadelphia Eagles head coach who knows
never ends up Kansas City now, like all things end
up ending, So maybe he is fired, but maybe it's
at a date when the Chiefs don't have an open
So yeah, I mean, anytime you do the butterfly effect,
I think it would impact everything. It would change the
landscape of the National Football League. Does donaldan McNabb get
(51:08):
drafted to Philadelphia? Who coaches the Eagles? Are the Eagles
any good? So yeah, I don't know how to quantify
wins losses, who wins Super Bowls, who doesn't, But it
would have had a dramatic impact on the National Football
League for sure, because you guys had a weird before Sherman.
Or was Mike Sherman there? Who was the coach Ray
(51:32):
Rhodes because McCarthy got there? And what O seven If
you were in charge of college football program at Oregon State,
what would you do to get the program back on track?
We finished the season ranked in the top twenty and
twenty two and twenty three, but with conference realignment, we
lost our head coach and most of our best players.
(51:52):
We just finished a huge stadium renovation and acquired Duke
transfer Malik Murphy, but it still seems like the program
is nowhere close to where it was pre conference realignment.
Do you have any ideas how to get a PAC
two program like Oregon State in a position to merit
and offer to join the major four conferences. This does
(52:15):
not bring me joy saying this. I'm not trying to
kick you while you're down. I was a small school guy.
It's not like I'm a USC Texas alum. I got
my start at Fresno State, which is essentially you're technically
still the PAC twelve, but you're a Mountain West school
as well. So I have a lot of admiration for
what goes into the smaller schools to even attempt to compete.
(52:40):
You have absolutely no shot in twenty twenty five. It
pains me to say that because unlike me, like going
to cal Pauly, you got to experience what it was
like to play in huge games against USC, the University
of Washington, the university your rival was the University of Oregon,
who's one of the best programs of the Internet era.
(53:00):
I mean that was your fucking rival. Excuse my language
for all the kids listening, but it's over. You got
no shot, absolutely none, and I think having Dickred on
the other day, Washington State's guy, and obviously Jonathan Smith.
Jonathan Smith, I mean, you know this, but who's now
(53:21):
the coach at Michigan State played quarterback at Oregon State,
and there was just like you think he wanted to
He's he's from LA. You think he wanted to go
to Michigan State to be a head coach, but he
couldn't stay because you can't compete, you can't keep players.
The schedule now relative to what it used to be,
(53:42):
is never going to be the same. And I think
you know what sucks being Oregon State in Washington State
who legitimately tried who you know, for the most part,
had high highs over the last decade, where UCLA has
been a joke. The only reason UCLA is in the
pack or in the big is because USC brought them along,
(54:02):
right because the LA market, not because of their football program.
Their football program is a laughingstock. It's why I think
Nico going there is say over and over as a joke,
leaving Tennessee to go to UCLA. But like you got
the short end of the stick where schools like UCLA
who did not do a good job benefited Hell even
(54:25):
like Arizona, Like you have been a much better football
program the University Arizona over the last twenty years. It's
not even close, and they get to go to the
Big twelve and you get nothing. It sucks. There's nothing
I can say besides it sucks and that there is
not a path. There really isn't because even if they
(54:46):
merge into these two conferences right like the NFL, NFCAFC
basically the Big Ten and the SEC. I don't see
how Oregon State gets involved. I really don't. I've heard
Colins say several times that Rosenhaus can be persuasive. That'd
be Drew Rosenhaus specifically talking about getting Abdull Carter drafted.
(55:09):
How is it possible for an agent, even if he's
a top dog in his profession, to get teams to
draft his clients when they're the ones spending numerous hours
and days evaluating players. Okay, this is the last question.
I think like A. I mean Abdul Carter's You could
argue he's the most talented guy in this draft because
(55:31):
of his skill playing pass rusher, elite bend speed, explosion,
tackling ability, range, Like he's an elite Rosenhaus just has
to sell you. Maybe on the doctor stuff, he's okay,
but like you said, the doctor who's an actual doctor
looks at the GM and the head coach and be like, yeah,
I don't feel comfortable. What can Drew tell you now?
(55:54):
Drew can get second opinions. I think it's more his
persuasion can be helping guys get more money in negotiations,
doing packaged deals, getting late round picks selected. But when
you're talking Abdual Carter, I don't think Drew has any
(56:16):
impact on that at all. And I have a ton
of respect Rosehouse elite is gig elite, But Abdual Carter,
maybe you know if you got like Roseman or you
know less Sneed or one of these guys on the phone.
I know Trent Balky has done I mean a lot
of deals with Rosehouse over the years. He definitely can
(56:39):
have an impact on maybe like a lower tier free
agent getting workouts for guys in the offseason who are unemployed,
but in a situation with like a top ten pick.
I think, especially in a day and age when the
money is slotted, so it's not one of those like
can we get the guy signed for those of you
(57:00):
that are young, like if you're like twenty two years old.
When I was a kid, a huge talking point was like,
if you had the top two or three pick, you
would negotiate with like four or five players and kind
of have an idea who we can sign and who
we can't. But those days are dead like that, there
is no negotiation, like this is the contract. Sign it.
Sign it, buddy, So I hear you. I don't think
(57:21):
with abdual Carter he has much juice. Now can he
just pitch the shit out of you with like a
fifth round guy, wear out your owner? He can do
that too, he can. One thing Drew would have is
he would have a direct line to thirty two owners.
So let me take a step back for a second
and rephrase where he has no juice. With the top pick,
(57:43):
he getting the owners here and at the end of
the day, the guy signing the check is the ultimate
decision maker. So if he can convince the owner to
pressure the yeah, So, now, can he impact a GM
on a top on the seventh pick in the draft?
Probably not? But what if the owner goes, well, you know,
I really like so and so, and Drew has been
(58:04):
wearing him out, maybe took him dinner, had a few cocktails.
So I think, listen all you guys listening in sales.
Some guys are just more persistent than others and can
just kind of talk it into talking into reality. And
I would say, Drew, you know, does Drew have an impact?
(58:26):
You know he's got Jalen Carter. If you've got Howie
and Drew with each a class of wine, Like what
role did Drew have in convincing Howie that everything was
going to be okay? When I was with the Eagles,
Drew had Shady and Deshaun, So it's like Howie and
Drew's relationship probably goes back fifteen twenty years. I would
(58:49):
imagine over the last three or four no player they
talked more about leading into a draft than Jalen Carter
and it's worked out pretty well. I would imagine Drew
war Howie just like every other GM, but it worked.
So maybe they have a bigger impact than I. Just
everything I said, take it all back. Maybe Drew. You know,
(59:12):
Drew did tell Ice to an Eskima. The volume
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