January 15, 2025 • 50 mins
Colin is sounding the alarm on the Cowboys head coach search and why there's no easy fix for this team that finished 7-10 this season. He issues a warning to the Steelers that while they haven't had a "losing" season under head coach Mike Tomlin, there are major issues that need to be addressed. Plus, NBA Commissioner Adam Silver joins the show to talk to Colin about their reported decline in TV ratings and if the 3-point line needs to be pushed further back
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noone Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
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or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh, it is a Big Wednesday, a Great Wednesday, a
special show live in Los Angeles. It's The Herd. Wherever
you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks
for making us part of your day. Jmac. There's been
one guest I've been trying to get for the last
couple of years, Adam Silver, NBA Commissioner. You and I
love the NBA. We start really watching it, really watching
(00:49):
it late January February, and it becomes a big topic
on our show. There's this sense that there's problems with
the legal though they just seccured secured seventy five billion
dollars in new rights. Fine, but I've been trying for
two years to get Adam Silver on the show. So
the NBA said, all right, we'll give you, Adam Silver,
and so I'm very excited. One hour from now, the
(01:10):
NBA commissioner comes on and there's a lot of you know,
it's funny about sports in America right now. Sports is
great in America. I mean Major League Baseball. I've never
seen a player like Otani. He's our babe, Ruth and
the NBA, these international players, seven foot four guys bringing
the ball up the floor are incredible. But we generally
view like NFL is all good and everybody else is struggling,
(01:31):
and that's not true. Women's basketball, by the way, has
emerged in this country as a power player now. So
I'm so excited to talk to him about a variety
of subjects. Adam Silver is gonna stop buying one hour
and then I want to start with this numbers. I'm
not a math guy, but numbers. So Deon Sanders to
the Cowboys has been discussed. The Athletic is reporting that
(01:52):
Jerry's gone in a bit of a solo mission and
he's making calls himself to Deon Sanders. Jerry's just like, yeah,
I'm getting a DNA now. He has an eight million
dollar buyout. As respected reporter Sharene Williams says Dion's going
an eight million dollar buyout in Belichick A ten. Jerry
doesn't do buyouts, duly noted that. Clarence Hill, but on
(02:15):
this show, Clarence Hill Junior, respected as well, says he
doesn't do buyouts and he doesn't mind the chatter. Okay,
so you guys are talking numbers. I'm gonna give both
of these fine reporters other numbers. Jerry's eighty two. When
you get older, everything changes. You think about your mortality once.
The first number your age is six or seven. Secondly,
(02:35):
the Cowboys were seven to ten. And here's a third number.
You got to pay dak a b quarterback, one hundred
and twenty nine million guaranteed going forward. Those are the
numbers I see, not eight million. And I think rich
guys don't like dead coaching money. I don't think they
like buyouts. But I think when you get older, you
see the world differently. You think about your legacy and
how you're gonna leave it for others. Does he want
(02:57):
to leave his kids a mess? And I think is
in much worse shape than people think. I really do.
I think they're in big trouble just in the NFC, Detroit, Philadelphia,
Green Bay. In the Rams not only have better rosters now,
significantly better, significantly better, they have better from offices they
are drafting. I mean, the Rams do not miss on
(03:17):
defensive draft picks. Philadelphia didn't miss on draft picks at all.
So those teams are better now. And I'm not even
talking Baltimore, Kansas City and the Bills Chiefs. I'm not
talking the big three in the AFC. I'm not talking
league wide. I'm not talking Chiefs, Mahomes, Reid. I'm not
talking Josh Allen, the great Baltimore Raven team. I forget
those out. In fact, I won't even use the big
(03:39):
dogs in the NFC. Just in your own division, I
see major obstacles. Jaden Daniels maybe as good or better
than Andrew Lucket's a rookie. This kid looks like Mahomes
plus Lamar Jackson. This is year one. Look at it's
passer rating the fourth quarter. This is not a play roster.
(04:00):
He got him into the playoffs and just won a
road game. Jayden Daniels, Is this our next Mahomes? And
then there's Philadelphia's roster, which has so many good young
players they're going nowhere for five years. So and this
is what worries me, lack of self awareness. The Patriots
new with Gerrod Mayo. They made a mistake. It happens.
(04:21):
Great owners make mistakes. They pivoted one year. Arizona, which
doesn't have a great owner, Josh Rose and Steve Wilkes,
they pivoted one year. I think I think Dallas is
in danger of becoming a Jurassic Park. We'll call it
jair Jaassic Park where an old guy meets you at
(04:43):
the gate and shows you the facilities, and you're really
impressed with the tour, and then all of a sudden,
you start seeing things the old guy doesn't like. What
happens if the fence breaks and the t Rex gets out, well,
let me tell you what, the Dallas Cowboys the fence broke,
give him metal. You have one weapon. You have a
quarterback that's paid at a Mahomes level, and he's about
(05:06):
Baker Mayfield and you've whiffed on your last two first
round picks appear to be whiffs. I think Dallas is
in big trouble. And even organizations that we don't look
at as elite, like Arizona's like this isn't working. We're pivoting.
So listen, the Patriots just did that. I think the
Patriots make the playoffs next year, just like I called
(05:29):
Washington making the playoffs this year. Washington new clean house.
Let's change everything new. England's like we made a mistake.
Let's clean house. Dallas is clinging to family, Dallas is
clinging to the past. Dallas thinks they're close, Dallas thinks
they're a player away. So to me, this is a
Jurassic Park, and the fence is broken, the t rex
is running wild. It's only going to get worse. I'm
(05:51):
not even sure if I'd resign Micah. I think I'd
move in for a first round pick in a week draft.
Michael Irvin yesterday did say, however, I don't want to
hear that it's not a coveted job. Michael Irvin defended
Jerry and said it is a covenant job.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
They're only thirty two jobs in the National Football League.
Thirty to each one of those jobs going to pay
you book nor to somewhere six seven million dollars a year.
That coach is all over the world that probably wants
to come to coach if they knew how to coach
in the National Football League. This is a coveny job.
All thirty two of them are coveted jobs in this
country and mostly probably in this world. So that right
(06:29):
there is not right to even say that. Now the
Cowboys is as covenant as any other team in the
National Football League.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So now I don't believe that. I think it starts
with ownership. And the number I see is eighty two
years old, seven and ten and one hundred and twenty
nine million to DAK and an organization that increasingly last
couple of years can't get their first round picks right.
The fence is broken. So what I'm about to say,
(07:03):
you'll roll your eyes at and that's hurtful. But I've
been saying this that you've got to be able to
see the problems before they get really bad, like Dallas.
So Mike Tomlin, there was a story out this morning
that he's not actually sure what they're going to do
at quarterback, which I see as progress. Russell Wilson has
(07:25):
said I want to be back, and Mike Tomlin is
at least acknowledging it's not all right here.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Stuck is kind of a helpless feeling, and I don't
know that I feel helpless. Definitely doesn't feel in the
mood for optimism or the selling of optimism. I don't
know that that's appropriate. You know, it's disappointing not to
be working. And so that's where we are.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
All right.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So you may not think this is happening, but just
hear me out for a couple minutes. Are the Steelers
becoming the New York Giants? The Steelers would look at
now and go a mess. Legendary quarterback gets you to
a couple of Super Bowls. Elion big Ben family run
(08:12):
for generations, historic franchise, prides itself in stability, and then
the quarterback retires and it gets ugly really quick. Now,
the Giants winning got ugly really quick, and the Steelers
still win more, but their offense is pitiful. Now, to
the Steelers credit, they don't run through coaches. But to
(08:35):
the Giants credit, they've won a playoff game in the
last eight years, and so post Big Ben, as the
NFL made a massive pivot to offense over the last
seven to eight years. They can't get the quarterback right,
they can't get the running game right, they can't get
the O line right, and they struggle to get the
OC right. The one shining lot light is George Pickens,
(08:58):
the wide receiver. But a story came out yesterday that
he literally showed up late to a game on Christmas
against the Chiefs, and he is regularly late to games.
That's your star. No, that's just called a talented kid.
They come and go in this league. That's just a
talented kid. That's not a leader. So since twenty nineteen,
you don't think you're the Giants. But since twenty nineteen,
(09:21):
in an offensive league where you can't get quarterback, running
back O line right, the Steelers. And remember, their defense
gets them in good field position, their defense takes the
ball away, their defense gets sacks, making it easier on
the offense. In Pittsburgh, they have scored fewer touchdowns in
(09:42):
the last five years than the Jags, Raiders, Bears, and Browns.
The good news, though, you're a couple ahead of the Giants,
right you Steeler fan looks at the Giants and goes pitiful.
But the Eagle and the Rams and the Ravens and
(10:03):
the Chiefs and the top offenses look at Pittsburgh's offense,
which now is what Hoyst trophies, and they see pitiful.
That's what they see. I mean, we all look at
Pittsburgh's offense and we all just kind of got it's
here are the eight teams without a playoff win, eight
(10:28):
teams lent a playoff win in the last eight seasons. Steelers, Dolphins, Raiders, Panthers, Cardinals, Broncos, Bears, Jets.
You know who's not on that list, The New York Giants,
who you look down at. I do think Tomlin's saying,
there's quotes here. I don't know. If I don't know,
if we have the quoterback in the room, that is progress.
(10:49):
But you know, right now, I think it's interesting when
franchises that are proud like Dallas and Pittsburgh, look at
the Jags and the pan and the Jets and the Giants,
you do get you are much closer to that than
the Bills, the Ravens, the Chiefs, the Eagles, the Lions,
(11:09):
and the Rams. Adam Silver in forty five minutes joining
us today, it is getting very interesting. You know, you
can always tell j Mack before we brought you on here,
I took you out to dinner. Well, Mike McCarty, when
you get dinner, when you share a glass of veno
and you chop it up with people for dinner. That
usually means something special is happening. Mike McCarthy is having
(11:31):
dinner reportedly tonight in Chicago.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
Wait, was this before I got to Fox way back
two days?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I don't remember much of your life, but I know
the dinner really was your wife and my wife there, Yeah,
I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, that was like twenty fifteen. Yeahah,
so Mike McCarthy, it's dinner, steaks and a glass of
wine tonight in Chicago.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
Fiels kind of standard. I do have a quick question
this George Piket's showing up late for a game.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
It's crazy. I was reading about it.
Speaker 6 (11:56):
So what happens if I show up, like I don't know,
twenty five minutes after the show starts.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Well, first of all, could be traffic. It's la certainly,
and it was Christmas, so you do give a guy
a bit of a pass. But I think the bigger
issue with Pickens is late to practice, late to games,
on field disruptions. I think it's the classic drip, drip drip.
Now the faucets broke, so it's not just the moment
people make mistakes. They get in recks. They this is
(12:22):
not a dog ate my homework thing yet, but it
does when it starts to compound with George Pickens and
he is right now the centerpiece of the offense. I
mean again, Jalen Hurts may not be the centerpiece of
Phillies offense, but he is reliable, he's a leader, he
shows up. So I mean, the difference in this league
often is not just talent. New England's dynasty was built
(12:46):
around leadership and Kansas City's dynasty. They don't have the
best team. Philadelphia's got better players, Detroit's got It's built
around dependable, sustainable leadership.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
So why then are we hearing after the Steelers get
eliminated Pickens showing up late on Christmas Mike Tomlin. There
were some reports that Mike Tomlin didn't intervene when Arthur Smith.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And Russell Wells.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
So like all of a sudden, there's this negative flow
of stories about Tomlin's leadership. Are they is somebody trying
to shove him out of Pat Well?
Speaker 1 (13:18):
I would say stories get out when somebody wants them out.
So why did the Pickens story get out? That could
be Tomlin's side saying hey, I'm getting buried here. This
is what I had to deal with.
Speaker 6 (13:32):
Or is it the other side, Hey, this guy's enabling Pickens.
They announced the inactiveties.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Well do you really think the Pickens party would want
this out?
Speaker 6 (13:42):
Well, I think somebody's trying to say, hey, Tomlin doesn't
have control. He didn't have it over Deontay Johnson, Antonio Brown.
This is a pattern. And also Arthur Smith and Russell
Wilson weren't getting along. That now comes out that wasn't
out there during the season. I'm like, I just wonder
if there's some kind of internal issue with Mike.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Tomlin's over it. Arthur Smith didn't get along with the Ross,
Peyton didn't get along with the Ross. Pete Carroll at
the end was tired to Ross. It's it's a Ross's
I mean that's seriously. If you go to three different
jobs and you don't get along with people, it's not
the people, it's you, right, Like they always say, in
a divorce, the one thing that is a constant in
(14:19):
a divorce is you, Like you're just bringing you to
a new relationship. That's why seventy percent of second marriages
and then divorce because you took you. You thought you
were getting rid of the problem. You are the problem.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and neonon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
So they are rolling out the red carpet for Mike
McCarthy and the Bears. I think Mike McCarthy smartly read
the tea leaves bailed on Dallas, which I think is
devastating potentially for the Cowboys because they can't even now
interview the top two coordinator candidates, Aaron Glenn and Ben
(15:04):
Johnson from Detroit. So they're rolling out the red carpet.
Just want you to consider this. The Commanders were broken,
the Broncos were broken, The Chargers were broken. What did
they all do? And by the way, the Patriots were broken,
They all went and hired experienced head coaches. Three of
them have made the Super Bowl three or four. I
(15:25):
know Mike McCarthy's ceiling is not Andy Reid, it's not
Sean McVeigh. I get that, But his floor in eighteen years,
twelve times is the playoffs. The Bears currently are not
a high ceiling team. Let's just say this and this
is what his resume proves that Mike McCarthy very quickly
(15:50):
stabilizes you and makes you a winning team. I'm not
talking thirteen twelve, eleven wins. You become a winning team
nine to eight, ten and seven, and he stabilizes you.
And then in four years you're like, yeah, but we
only won one playoff game. We've hit a ceiling. All right,
(16:11):
that's the worst case scenario. And then you, as Caleb
Williams signs his second contract and his first massive contract,
you go get the whiz Kid. Then you need stability.
I would hire Sully before I go Top Gun Maverick here, Chicago, Kate,
(16:31):
you are bat. You can't even line up properly. I
saw this morning you were third in the league in
false starts and fifth in most illegal formations. You just can't.
You can't even land the plane. Forget about doing circles
and top Gun upstairs. Gotta land the plane. So my
(16:51):
take is nine to eight and ten and seven is
a great place for Caleb Williams to be going forward.
You've been over five hundred one time in twelve years.
Instead of dumping your net worth into bitcoin, how about
you just open a savings account first and get the
(17:12):
basics down, like not illegal formation four times a game. Yeah,
I mean you're viewing yourself as hey, we're stable. No, no, no,
you're not. This isn't a little turbulence. You're crashing a
year after year after year, and so again twelve times
in eighteen years, three different quarterbacks, one an old legend,
(17:37):
won an ascending legend, and one paid like a legend,
and you keep getting all of them to the playoffs.
Eighteen years, twelve playoffs. I'm just asking you, Bears, to
upgrade from life support to stable condition. Let's not worry
about having perfect abs yet or running a four fifty mile.
(17:59):
Let's just get the stable condition and a better diet.
Mike McCarthy is stability and winning and playoffs and even
in four years, if you're like, yeah, I mean yeah,
we win nine and ten games, ye all take that.
That's landing the plane. Here's Caleb Williams and I love this.
(18:20):
He was on a podcast. Here's Caleb Williams on what
he's looking for for the coach.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
What are some qualities that you'd want here in your
next head coach?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Strong minded, a leader of men, selfishly.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
I want an officeive minded, guy, so I can build
with him and you know, be with be with their
coach for the next yeah, nineteen sev team fifteen years,
helping find the right guys to to, you know, I
mean win championships. That's some I mean, that's the only
goal that I have for my NFL career.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
By the way, I kind of like when the star
receivers hair matches the team's colors. I don't know, just me.
I don't know why I like that, but I like
that thought. I want a strong leader, you know, I
want a guy to be cool. If I had an
offensive coach, he didn't make a demand. He thought it
was really cool if he had an offensive coach. I know,
y'all think Ben Johnson and Mike McCarthy coach the different
(19:18):
sides of the ball. They're both offensive coaches. One has
got a very snazzy trick playbook, which is much easier
to do when you have Jared Goff the best O
line in football, great tight end, great receivers and two
great backs. Was Ben Johnson doing that four years ago?
Or did you just learn football? It's much easier, Like
Andy Reid, you ever noticed this, It's much easier to
(19:41):
be tricky when you're great at the basics, like Chicago's
got to get the basics down.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Easter not a em Pacific.
Speaker 8 (19:52):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together We're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world. We have a lot of fun talking
about the stories behind the stories in the world of
(20:13):
sports and pop culture, stories that well other shows don't
seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact
that we've been friends for the last twenty years and
still work together. I mean that says something right. So
check us out. We like to get you involved too,
take your phone calls, chop it up. As they say,
I'd say, the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio,
maybe the.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Most interactive show on planetar.
Speaker 8 (20:34):
Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to
seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific, And if you
miss any of the live show, just search Covino and
Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and of course on
social media.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
That's Covino and Rich. All Right, here we go, it's
our two. Been waiting for this for a long time,
live in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
It is the herd.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening,
thanks for making us part of your day. You know,
I used to have a relationship at the other Place
with David Stern, the late great Commissioner David Stern, who
was the boss of Adam Silver, And that was always
funny because he would join me during his lunch and
he was always eating during the interview, which I made
sure he knew that I knew. But the interviews were
(21:17):
feisty and fun. And so I've been looking forward to
this because the NBA is still incredibly culturally relevant, and
they just signed contracts with networks for seventy seven billion dollars,
and they do get beat up a lot because, let's
be honest, their star players are often bigger than NFL players.
So there's a lot to unravel and unpack here when
(21:39):
we bring on Adam Silver eleven years as the NBA commissioner.
So let's start with the good stuff. International expansion, China
and Africa. You have a new CBA for seven years.
You just signed a massive TV deal. I like the
NBA cup. I'm a distracted consumer. If the court's purple,
I know it matters. I like it. I think it works.
(22:00):
So there's a lot of good here, more good than bad.
But I'm gonna set this question up because this is
something I struggle with. I'm a consumer and I'm distracted.
I'm on my phone as much as TV. So I
have been watching Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese. They feel
like burden magic because I am viscerally connected to them
via college. This is why studios do sequels. I know
(22:22):
the actors. Zach Edy, I really like watching him plays,
having a very nice rookie season. But I know him
because Matt Painter and Purdue is a big time program.
It would be reductionist to say he's succeeding because he's big.
He's succeeding because of what Purdue did, and not only that, commissioner,
(22:43):
but I got to watch the growth. So I am
emotionally committed to Zach Edy, I think your heart was
in the right place with the G League, but it
hides players from me that I want to grow with.
Is there an argument to be made the college basketball
there's I feel like it's not not that it's marginalized,
(23:04):
but it's not as big as it could be. It
could be such a microwave for your stars, and the
league doesn't see it that way. Is that a fair criticism.
Speaker 9 (23:14):
I don't think it's a fair criticism because we do
see it that way and we're doing everything we can
to build college basketball. I mean, let me, let me
take a few steps back. Like, first of all, in
terms of the G League, most of the G League
players are either international players who didn't play in college
or former college players. In fact, we had a program
(23:35):
called Team McKnight. Yes kindaly, so Rice recommended we create.
There was an NCAA commission and you'll recall pre collectives
and nil money. President Obama criticized us, and then the
NCUBA had a commission and said there should be a track,
a pro track into the NBA because it was unfair
(23:55):
that the only opportunity for these young players was to
play without being paid in college. So we had already
had the G League, But then we created this program
called Team McKnight, where for a select few high school players,
if they wanted the opportunity to get to get paid
and then come into the NBA, they could play in
that program. But even then we recognized that compared to
(24:19):
the facilities the conditions at the top D one programs,
even though we were paying them and they couldn't have
been paid at that point, it was, they were still
better off playing at Kentucky or Louisville or Duke or
USC or wherever else. And so once the nil and
collective money came in, we actually shut down the Team McKnight.
(24:40):
We still have the G League, and the last thing
we want to do is take top prospects would otherwise
be going to school.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Take Cooper Flag at Duke.
Speaker 9 (24:48):
We'd rather he be there than be playing in the
NBA right now or be playing in the G League.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
We want those players to develop.
Speaker 9 (24:55):
So, you know, I think there's a misnomer to the
extent that you or others feel that we're not supportive
of college basketball. I'm personally a huge college basketball fan.
I'm Charlie Baker, the former governor of Massachusetts and now
head of the and Cuba. He and I've been meeting
a lot to talk about collectively what we can do
to better develop young American players, which clearly has to
(25:18):
begin before they get to college for the NBA. So
and you know, we are the league of the w
NBA too, And so I pay a lot of attention
to Caitlyn Clark and the star players that are emerging
and the WNBA and who are coming from college and
when whether it's Angel or Caitlin or Juju now and
(25:38):
these players come into the w NBA as you know,
built fully, you know, multi dimensional stars that people are
familiar with like it was in the old days in
the NBA.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
We love that.
Speaker 9 (25:50):
The problem is, like so many things in life, I'm
not sure we can turn the clock back on that
type of development.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
I will say it's positive, you know.
Speaker 9 (25:58):
Putting aside, I think there's some ishn't need to be
addressed in terms of the NIL system and the collectives.
It seems like nobody's really happy with it right now.
In terms of the competitive landscape, right I think it's
positive that those players are able to be paid, and
if they're able to be paid, particular of the players
that are on the margin of whether they or not
they would be lottery picks or first round draft picks.
(26:19):
They now have a huge incentive to stay in school
because they can there not only can get the further development,
but they can get paid as well.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Here's something that I addressed with David Stern, and I'll
address it with you too. I think trades are good
for sports. If you look at the best teams in
the NBA right now, Oklahoma City, Cleveland, and Boston, they
have smart front offices that have drafted and developed well.
They can occasionally make a Donovan Mitchell move or Porzingis
move or a Drew Holliday, but those teams have drafted
and developed well and they're being rewarded for it. You know,
(26:49):
Dallas drafted Luca. You know they can go get Kyrie,
but lucas the star. The NBA gets a little too
caught up if you take Lebron out. Let's just take
Lebron out. He is the historic out. Even Kevin Durant,
Warriors one before him, Warriors one after him. Is that
I think the league sometimes is too concerned with trades.
(27:09):
If Jimmy Butler, who's a good player, maybe not a
Superstar anymore went to Oklahoma City, I would want to
watch them more, or Golden State, I would want to that.
The league sometimes to protect the small markets. Let's not
worry too much about that. Let's just let players move
because the sense that it ruins the league or creates
a competitive balance outside of Lebron, it really doesn't. Most
(27:33):
of the great teams in this league historically have always
been draft and develop, build a core, and then add
sprinkle in some good players via trades.
Speaker 9 (27:45):
I don't think it's an accident that we've had six
different teams over the last six years that have won championships,
and at the end of the day, we sell competition.
And I hear you it sounds like you're making an
argument for dynasties to a certain extent, that we should
do more to allow a great player to go to
an already great team or an already very good team.
(28:07):
The problem is that it's zero sum. The players are
going to go somewhere. That's the great news. All the
top tier players are going to play in the NBA,
and that there is a correlation. It's far from perfect,
but there's a correlation between what players make and their
performance on the floor. And so what we've done, and
I understand your point of view over time is while
(28:27):
we have a soft cap system, it's become harder and
it has been more difficult once you have a fully
loaded team. So then add a great player on top
of that. And to your point, if Kevin Durant couldn't
have gone to Golden State from Oklahoma City when he did,
the team he had gone to would have almost by definition,
(28:48):
if it weren't already a great team, would have become
a great team. And for us, we think that's better
league wide in terms of creating more competition. I mean,
we're coming off a season last year, it's continued this year.
Or I think we have more competitive teams than any
time in league history. And to your point, the fact
that you know tomorrow night Cleveland and Oklahoma City are
(29:09):
playing yet again, you know, fantastic build up for that game,
incredible competition. We just got to remember at the end
of the day, that's what we're selling. I mean, I
think that's part of the reason for the enormous success
of the NFL. This any given Sunday notion, nobody thinks twice.
If if you know the Packers are in the Super Bowl.
There's no bemoaning that it's a small market whatsoever. And
(29:32):
I think our league, it's true that if you look
back on, you know, the first you know, sixty years
of our league, it seemed David Stern joked, you know
when when he came into the league, I thought the
job was you went back and forth from Boston to
la every year, and one of the teams got the rings.
Speaker 5 (29:47):
You know.
Speaker 9 (29:47):
And I think the fact that now we're selling competition
in every market, and that in terms of from a
television standpoint too, that you know, whether it's Oklahoma City,
whether it's San Antonio, whether it's Salt Lake City, that
those teams are in a position when well managed to
compete in the same way the large markets can.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
And by the way, I mean it's not just money.
Speaker 9 (30:09):
I mean players choose markets based on you know, climate taxes,
Some like big cities, some like small cities. Yeah, but
you know, I think I'm balanced. This is a much
better system for a thirty team league.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I'm gonna throw this at you. I said this the
other day about the esthetic of the NBA. It's a
bit homogenous, a little cookie cutter. And I said, listen,
I don't mind three pointers. But if the NFL was
just you could run the ball and throw bombs. No layering,
no drag routes, no tight end screen. It was just
run it or bombs. Optically, it's not as fascinating. And
(30:48):
I love the three pointer, but like and you know this,
you're a pretty progressive thinker. I think athletes are better.
Wemby can pull up and cross you over in a
dribbled and shoot. They couldn't do that ten years ago.
And the truth is, because your players are so gifted
and it's such a global pool, the three pointer is
too easy. And I have simply said I would put
(31:10):
the three pointer. I would go have it go into
the bench about six feet up, eliminate the corner. I'd
bring back the handcheck. I do like physicality. Your athletes
are so great it's become too easy to hit it,
and the optics on it are repetitive. I think there's
numbers ratings that prove people they like layers and power
(31:33):
forwards in physicality and not just dunks and threes. What
do you do to solve that? Because I think you've
engaged with people and acknowledged it can be a bit repetitive.
It is a bit of an issue. What do we
do to change it?
Speaker 9 (31:47):
That The hardest question is the last one you asked,
what do we do to change it? I agree to
the extent that you start to see very similar offenses. Yes,
around the league. You know, team have brands, teams have identity.
You know Joe Dumars is a colleague now at the
league office, the Bad Boys, et cetera. You know, I
think you know the Showtime Lakers. So I recognize that
(32:11):
the extent that offenses start to look very similar, we
lose that. At the same time, the league is going
through a transformation. Just as you said, players like Victor
Webbin Yama, players like you know Yokich are doing things
big men never did historically. I mean, it wasn't that
long ago.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Column.
Speaker 9 (32:27):
You'll remember that conversations you had with David Stern. We
would bemoan the lack of skill among some players that
you know, there there was a sense there was too
much physicality.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
Yes, that the.
Speaker 9 (32:40):
Play under the back, you know that that you would have,
you know, the hack a shack era. You know there
were big men that just couldn't shoot free throws. There
are no big men anymore who can't shoot by throws,
just as one comparable from general generation to generation have
never been higher.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
So I think we just got to be careful.
Speaker 9 (32:59):
Like the one one thing I want to do is
I don't want to sort of knee jerk move the
three point line. We're sort of going through a process
now seeing how these players are adapting to the new
rules and figuring out if whatever changes we should make.
I mean, be honest, I wish it were as simple
as just moving the three point line back, because then
we would just do it. I mean, part of the
concern from the basketball folks is that if you move
(33:22):
the three point line back, you'll end up sort of
just clogging up, you know, the sort of the area
under the basket, and that's not such attractive basketball either.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
I think this is doable.
Speaker 9 (33:33):
I think we by examining the game and sort of
seeing where it's going. I mean, it frustrates me a
little as well, because it's obviously you're representative of how
what a fair number of people are saying about the game,
and I watch it night in night out, and we're
seeing some of the most incredible athleticism and skill in
the history of this league.
Speaker 5 (33:54):
Again Victor Wembanyama.
Speaker 9 (33:55):
But I think you're also saying too that if we
move the three point line and what we ended up
with was Victor Minyama standing under the basket the whole time,
just waiting you're done, that wouldn't be interesting. So, you know, one,
I assure you we are on it. I think it's
a very fixable issue. I mean, it's you know we've
(34:15):
gone from I mean I always tell the story like
Bob Coosey, who I don't know, he's around ninety five
years old, still stays in touch with me, and he'll
call me after watching a game and say, I'm so
frustrated because the commentators think that what these players are doing,
let's say, from twenty eight feet or thirty feet and
seemingly just flicking the ball up with their wrists and
(34:37):
swishing these three pointers, that somehow that's easy. They said,
the skill level is incredible. But he'll also say, you know,
I think we all want to see diversity in the offenses.
But by the way, one other thing I'll just throw in,
I don't think the players are getting enough credit for
playing the style defense they're playing now as well. So
it's an incredible game. I know you love the game. It's,
(34:57):
you know, the number one participation sport in the United States.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
You mentioned Caitlyn Clark. It's incredible to see.
Speaker 9 (35:03):
What the women are now doing on the floor and
the amount of young girls who are playing this game.
So as stewards of the game, you know Joe Dumar's
leads our competition committee here, you know we will tweak it,
we will correct those issues.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
So years ago I had a President Barack Obama on
a couple of times, and one of the things I
offered him, I said, you're the first president in my
life that's had the deal with social media and the
vile nature of it. It may not change policy, but
does it change the discussions in the briefing rooms before
you go out? Does it change the way perhaps you
think of policy. Because we're in a tribal nation, it's
very loud. So along those lines, I love George Brett
(35:39):
as a baseball player. As a kid Kansas City Royals,
George Brett often missed thirty games in a season. Nobody
thought it was load management, right, we live in a
different time. Platforms call it out and tickets are more expensive,
so it does bother me I'm a small town kid.
I went once a year to see downtown Freddie Brown,
Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson, Jack Sikma. If they didn't play,
(36:02):
that was the game I got. And I can see
that little kid in Milwaukee, middle class family go and
Yannis could play, but he doesn't. Is it a bigger problem?
I think it's a problem. Do you view it as
being sort of platformed up by loud voices or does
the league look at this and think, you know, our
(36:22):
middle class fans they go to one game a year,
they're not corporate stewards, and that they want to go
and see their stars play. I think it's serious. Do
you in the league think it is a problem that
is something you want to solve.
Speaker 9 (36:39):
We so much think it's a problem that in the
last collective bargaining agreement you may recall, we added some
provisions to further incentivized players to play as many games
as they possibly can by making them ineligible for certain awards,
certain benefits if they fall below a certain level of games.
Having said that, to your point, you know, and I'm
(37:02):
never going to shoot the messenger. In terms of whether
it's social media or the media, it's a real issue.
And how can you know for that family for that
one time that they're going to go see the Box
or the Lakers or the Knicks or whatever else. I
completely understand their point of view. The problem is as
much as we are an eighty two game league.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
I mean take Lebron for example.
Speaker 9 (37:24):
Okay, Lebron has missed I think three games so far
this season. Yeah, he's forty years old, he has the
most minutes in NBA history, and he's missed I think
three out of let's say thirty seven games so far.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
I think that's incredible.
Speaker 9 (37:39):
Now for the family that went to the Laker game
of one of those three games, I understand their disappointment,
and I know he does as well. You know, it's
with it with its season as long as we have,
by the way, and whether it's because load management or
an injury, it's still the same impact on that family.
(38:01):
And all I can say is we've worked with our teams.
We're working a lot on the science. I think, incidentally,
you don't hear load management so much around the league
anymore because I think we've dispelled that notion that it's somehow,
through some analytics or a computer program that on November twelfth,
(38:21):
you can make a decision that a player should sit
out on December twentieth, which is what was going on
in the league. And in fact, my understanding, at least
of the data that's come in so far, it may
even be the case that some of the early season
injuries are caused by players not having enough load.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Because even thank you again, you.
Speaker 9 (38:42):
Know, it's fascinating, Like when I got to the league
a little over thirty years ago, a lot of players
would take the month of August and like literally go fishing,
you know. They would show out and they would like
eat a little bit more, gain a little bit of weight.
They'd come into training camp and that's when you got
back into shape and you'd lose those pounds and you'd
play your way and and and train and practice back
(39:05):
into game shape. Now there's not there's hardly a player
in the league that isn't working out every single day.
Guys even go to the finals, they take a day off,
they're back on the floor. But often it's specialized one
on one training, it's weight room work, whatever it is.
It's not five on five basketball. Because and a lot
of it. In fairness, these players and that's what frustrates
(39:27):
me too, because they don't take a day off. There's
some of the hardest working athletes out there, but then
they have it in their head that they're more likely
to get injured if they're playing five on five.
Speaker 5 (39:38):
So yeah, right, sorry.
Speaker 9 (39:39):
So then they come back into training camp and it's
still not necessarily five on five. There's the preseason again,
minutes are limited. Then boom, the regular season comes and
at least I can't say it's perfect. I know it's
causation yet, but there's certainly correlation early in the season
that you see those guys.
Speaker 5 (39:58):
And it's interesting.
Speaker 9 (39:59):
It used to it be we would hear from teams
that you're going to injure our players if they play
for USA Basketball, the US national team, the Olympic team,
where the national teams you know, from the countries they're from.
Speaker 5 (40:11):
In fact, it's the opposite.
Speaker 9 (40:13):
We have fewer injuries and maybe not surprisingly from the
guys who participate in competition over the summer because the
load is maintained. They're not overdoing it, you know, I
mean I I but you know they come back and
there's the consistency of the load, you know, throughout the
off season. So I think this is an area too
(40:34):
where better data, you know, AI is changing everything where
we're going to be in a position, I think where
we can convince the teams and convince the players that
actually playing is in their interest. But unfortunately we're never
going to be able to completely solve that issue for
that family that comes to that game and is disappointed.
(40:56):
I will say, just lastly, it maybe speaks a little
bit to the data that were coming off last year.
In the entire history of the NBA, it was our
highest attendance and I'm sure I mean I read that market,
no doubt the highest ticket prices too. So I will say, yes,
they're fans disappointed, but people love the NBA experience, they
(41:17):
love going to the games. I understand when there's a
particular star you're interested. But also we've never been deeper
in terms of the talent to four hundred and fifty
players in the league.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Okay, I'm gonna ask you a couple quick ones because I
know you're a busy guy, much busier than me, and
these can these can require shorter answers. So one of
the things the iPhone has changed everything. Our society is
more caffeinated more distracted and more frenetic. Hockey regular season,
baseball regular season, NBA regular season, it's just harder to
get ratings. Events UFC on Saturday, college football, NFL, Olympics,
(41:48):
World Cup events get excellent ratings. It's not necessarily the
fault of a league if there's a decline in Monday
through Friday. And as I look and read stories about
the decline of ratings, my take is it's an iPhone issue.
It's not baseball until Otawni and the Dodgers put up
basically the best most talented team ever, the Dodgers had
(42:09):
great ratings. Is that can you just is it just
possible that, hey, we have contracts that limit the number
of games we can be reduced to. We don't want
to make one and done like college basketball? Is that
your regular season ratings they don't matter that much because
I just saw your new TV deals and that the
media makes a bigger deal of the truth is we're
(42:29):
good when it matters in May and June, and that's
just a new world.
Speaker 9 (42:35):
Yeah, you asked me to answer shorter, so I'll try
to be. There's so much that could be set on this.
So first of all, this season just to set the
record straight, We're up about four percent on ESPN and ABC.
If you had TNT into the mix, we're down slightly
three or four percent for this season.
Speaker 5 (42:57):
That's our rating story so far.
Speaker 9 (42:59):
We're coming off last season where it was our highest
regular season ratings in four years. But the issue is
especially for a sport like the NBA where we have
a very young fan base young men, yes, young women,
cable as you know, and I'm sure it has an
impact on your show as well that since you last
(43:21):
interviewed me five plus years, there's been yet another dramatic
increase in the number of people who subscribe i'll call
traditional television, cable, satellite television, or who watched traditional television,
so much so that from a decade ago, it's like
fifty percent fewer people watch traditional television. In fact, last
(43:41):
year the lines crossed. More people are now watching programming
on streaming services than they are through legacy conventional television.
Speaker 5 (43:50):
So back to the iPhone.
Speaker 9 (43:51):
So those deals you talked about that we just entered
into for next year. Part of the reason I believe,
in addition to the sport itself, that we're able to
provide so much value is every one of those new
partners Disney and ESPN, NBC, Universal, Peacock, and of course
Amazon provide their games through streaming. Maybe in the case
(44:15):
of NBC it's also broadcaster or Disney, ABC and ESPN.
But every single game beginning next season is going to
be available on a streaming service. And then, you know,
burden on our, onus, on us. Then that we know,
now there's the opportunity to watch this programming on those
screens on those TVs they carry everywhere they go. But
(44:37):
I think as a result, we have to up our
game too. So they're adding more games of consequences, the
colored floors you joked about before for the NBA Cup,
So that gets people's attention. But beyond that, they really
exciting thing to me about moving to streaming services, which
are in essence Internet television. You can add all kinds
of incredible functionality, customization, personalization. People want to bet on games,
(45:02):
they can do it. People want to buy merchandise, they're
fascinated with a particular camera angle, or they want an
audio feed that is directed at hardcore fans or casual fans.
So I think, and this isn't just a case for
the NBA. I think for all of the leagues that
the competition is that much greater than it used to be,
and so we have to do a better job engaging
(45:24):
our fans in these games.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Okay, I promise. I know your PR people are probably saying,
get coward.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
Out of you.
Speaker 5 (45:29):
I can ignore them, thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Okay, there's another one. So this really bothers Jason McIntyre.
I think he really has been on this for two years.
He's been very publicly critical of Barkley banging on the league.
And my take is just I'll cut to the chase.
Have you ever called that show's executives or Charles and said, Charles,
(45:55):
could could you not beat down on us every night?
That there are those that believe it takes a negative
tact or tone on a fairly consistent basis. I don't
think it affects the ratings. I think they're entertainment show.
But I don't see the research you do. Have you
contacted them at one point and said you guys are
a little negative.
Speaker 9 (46:16):
Never ever, ever, And the only contact I've ever had
with them, and it would have been with Ernie. It's
occasionally Ernie and I will talk and he'll say we're
going to be discussing some aspect of the salary cap
or you know, the CBA, and it'll like, just give
me a primer on what the rules are, so that
if somebody says something that is factually wrong, I'm in
(46:39):
a position to correct them. But so that's just on facts,
never on opinion. And I'll go one step further. I mean,
as you know, you know, we didn't continue our relationship
with Turner Sports. Yeah that produces inside the NBA, but
we just got a deal done with ESPN and Turner
Sports to move that very show too. He is Canon ABC,
(47:02):
And I'll go further. And I love Jason by the way, Jason,
thank you for being a fan that I think in
this case they are unique. I think sometimes others who
are more critical I won't say names, but we'll get
our equivalent of you or mail and people say, why
is this guy commentating or announcing on the NBA when
(47:26):
it seems that he doesn't even like the league. And
I think that's a fair point if you think somebody
is that negative. And to me, there's always a tradition
in the NFL for almost all the announcers to me,
seem to celebrate the game in the case, in the
case of that panel, Charles Kenny Shack of course, Ernie,
I always have the sense that when they are critical,
(47:48):
it's your uncle at the Thanksgiving Day table. You know
this is it's it's the family. They have the credibility.
And because I also hear I don't call them, but
I hear from players in the league or teams in
the league, or say ah like there are partner like
why are they saying those things?
Speaker 5 (48:06):
And I think Charles is special.
Speaker 9 (48:08):
By the way, there's a reason that show has won
close to I think two dozen Emmys, and so I
think it generates more interest in the league and to
the extent that next year that show will be featured
on ESPN and ABC and more people will have the
opportunity to see it.
Speaker 5 (48:25):
I think that's very positive for the league.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Well, this was fun, and I do appreciate you not
eating during the interview because I love David, but it
was a tune of Sandwich every time he came on
with me, and it was his favorite.
Speaker 5 (48:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
I found that. I discovered that over several years a
real pleasure. If you're ever in LA I'd love to
have you. I think this kind of stuff is important.
I like the pok in prod and I just appreciate
you answering the questions.
Speaker 9 (48:49):
Yeah, Colin, and I wish I had asked this at
the top of the interview. How are you guys doing
everything that's going on out there?
Speaker 1 (48:54):
I gotta tell you, it's the most devastating thing I've
ever seen. Los Angeles, as you know, is a community
with a very diverse community. People come here and chase
their dreams, and it feels like a lot of dreams
have been shattered by a lot of really great people
in a lot of industries. But I have seen giving
at a level that is heartwarming from outside of Los Angeles,
(49:17):
and in Los Angeles people have opened their doors. Very
encouraging by citizens of Los Angeles.
Speaker 9 (49:25):
Yeah, I'll to say, you know, I was just with
some of the Lakers and Clippers executives at some meetings
and first why I think, you know, the Clippers into
a dome. We're going to do you know, a huge
concert with the azof family. Yes, money, you know. In addition,
you know I've been on the phone with JJ Reddick.
Of course he lost his house. He explained to me
how the community center, the rec center where his son
(49:47):
was playing burns the ground. So the league is going
to come up with a program with the Lakers and
Clippers to help rebuild the community. So you know, again,
the images are just terrific from the East coast. I'm
very sorry.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
Yeah, terrifying. But there's a lot of really good people
in this state, in this city. Adam Silver, the commissioner
of the NBA who presides by the way over five
different sport leagues A sports League, NBAWNBA G League, NBA
two K Basketball after League, thank you so much for
taking time for us. I told before this show, I said, listen,
we can I get eighteen minutes. You gave us twenty nine.
(50:21):
I am indebted and thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (50:24):
Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you all right. J Mack.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
I waited to the end to ask the question about
Charles Barkley. I kept watching you, but I did ask
that question. Adam Silver, thank you so much for joining
us on the show.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noone Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Oh, it is a Big Wednesday, a Great Wednesday, a
special show live in Los Angeles. It's The Herd. Wherever
you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks
for making us part of your day. Jmac. There's been
one guest I've been trying to get for the last
couple of years, Adam Silver, NBA Commissioner. You and I
love the NBA. We start really watching it, really watching
(00:49):
it late January February, and it becomes a big topic
on our show. There's this sense that there's problems with
the legal though they just seccured secured seventy five billion
dollars in new rights. Fine, but I've been trying for
two years to get Adam Silver on the show. So
the NBA said, all right, we'll give you, Adam Silver,
and so I'm very excited. One hour from now, the
(01:10):
NBA commissioner comes on and there's a lot of you know,
it's funny about sports in America right now. Sports is
great in America. I mean Major League Baseball. I've never
seen a player like Otani. He's our babe, Ruth and
the NBA, these international players, seven foot four guys bringing
the ball up the floor are incredible. But we generally
view like NFL is all good and everybody else is struggling,
(01:31):
and that's not true. Women's basketball, by the way, has
emerged in this country as a power player now. So
I'm so excited to talk to him about a variety
of subjects. Adam Silver is gonna stop buying one hour
and then I want to start with this numbers. I'm
not a math guy, but numbers. So Deon Sanders to
the Cowboys has been discussed. The Athletic is reporting that
(01:52):
Jerry's gone in a bit of a solo mission and
he's making calls himself to Deon Sanders. Jerry's just like, yeah,
I'm getting a DNA now. He has an eight million
dollar buyout. As respected reporter Sharene Williams says Dion's going
an eight million dollar buyout in Belichick A ten. Jerry
doesn't do buyouts, duly noted that. Clarence Hill, but on
(02:15):
this show, Clarence Hill Junior, respected as well, says he
doesn't do buyouts and he doesn't mind the chatter. Okay,
so you guys are talking numbers. I'm gonna give both
of these fine reporters other numbers. Jerry's eighty two. When
you get older, everything changes. You think about your mortality once.
The first number your age is six or seven. Secondly,
(02:35):
the Cowboys were seven to ten. And here's a third number.
You got to pay dak a b quarterback, one hundred
and twenty nine million guaranteed going forward. Those are the
numbers I see, not eight million. And I think rich
guys don't like dead coaching money. I don't think they
like buyouts. But I think when you get older, you
see the world differently. You think about your legacy and
how you're gonna leave it for others. Does he want
(02:57):
to leave his kids a mess? And I think is
in much worse shape than people think. I really do.
I think they're in big trouble just in the NFC, Detroit, Philadelphia,
Green Bay. In the Rams not only have better rosters now,
significantly better, significantly better, they have better from offices they
are drafting. I mean, the Rams do not miss on
(03:17):
defensive draft picks. Philadelphia didn't miss on draft picks at all.
So those teams are better now. And I'm not even
talking Baltimore, Kansas City and the Bills Chiefs. I'm not
talking the big three in the AFC. I'm not talking
league wide. I'm not talking Chiefs, Mahomes, Reid. I'm not
talking Josh Allen, the great Baltimore Raven team. I forget
those out. In fact, I won't even use the big
(03:39):
dogs in the NFC. Just in your own division, I
see major obstacles. Jaden Daniels maybe as good or better
than Andrew Lucket's a rookie. This kid looks like Mahomes
plus Lamar Jackson. This is year one. Look at it's
passer rating the fourth quarter. This is not a play roster.
(04:00):
He got him into the playoffs and just won a
road game. Jayden Daniels, Is this our next Mahomes? And
then there's Philadelphia's roster, which has so many good young
players they're going nowhere for five years. So and this
is what worries me, lack of self awareness. The Patriots
new with Gerrod Mayo. They made a mistake. It happens.
(04:21):
Great owners make mistakes. They pivoted one year. Arizona, which
doesn't have a great owner, Josh Rose and Steve Wilkes,
they pivoted one year. I think I think Dallas is
in danger of becoming a Jurassic Park. We'll call it
jair Jaassic Park where an old guy meets you at
(04:43):
the gate and shows you the facilities, and you're really
impressed with the tour, and then all of a sudden,
you start seeing things the old guy doesn't like. What
happens if the fence breaks and the t Rex gets out, well,
let me tell you what, the Dallas Cowboys the fence broke,
give him metal. You have one weapon. You have a
quarterback that's paid at a Mahomes level, and he's about
(05:06):
Baker Mayfield and you've whiffed on your last two first
round picks appear to be whiffs. I think Dallas is
in big trouble. And even organizations that we don't look
at as elite, like Arizona's like this isn't working. We're pivoting.
So listen, the Patriots just did that. I think the
Patriots make the playoffs next year, just like I called
(05:29):
Washington making the playoffs this year. Washington new clean house.
Let's change everything new. England's like we made a mistake.
Let's clean house. Dallas is clinging to family, Dallas is
clinging to the past. Dallas thinks they're close, Dallas thinks
they're a player away. So to me, this is a
Jurassic Park, and the fence is broken, the t rex
is running wild. It's only going to get worse. I'm
(05:51):
not even sure if I'd resign Micah. I think I'd
move in for a first round pick in a week draft.
Michael Irvin yesterday did say, however, I don't want to
hear that it's not a coveted job. Michael Irvin defended
Jerry and said it is a covenant job.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
They're only thirty two jobs in the National Football League.
Thirty to each one of those jobs going to pay
you book nor to somewhere six seven million dollars a year.
That coach is all over the world that probably wants
to come to coach if they knew how to coach
in the National Football League. This is a coveny job.
All thirty two of them are coveted jobs in this
country and mostly probably in this world. So that right
(06:29):
there is not right to even say that. Now the
Cowboys is as covenant as any other team in the
National Football League.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So now I don't believe that. I think it starts
with ownership. And the number I see is eighty two
years old, seven and ten and one hundred and twenty
nine million to DAK and an organization that increasingly last
couple of years can't get their first round picks right.
The fence is broken. So what I'm about to say,
(07:03):
you'll roll your eyes at and that's hurtful. But I've
been saying this that you've got to be able to
see the problems before they get really bad, like Dallas.
So Mike Tomlin, there was a story out this morning
that he's not actually sure what they're going to do
at quarterback, which I see as progress. Russell Wilson has
(07:25):
said I want to be back, and Mike Tomlin is
at least acknowledging it's not all right here.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Stuck is kind of a helpless feeling, and I don't
know that I feel helpless. Definitely doesn't feel in the
mood for optimism or the selling of optimism. I don't
know that that's appropriate. You know, it's disappointing not to
be working. And so that's where we are.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
All right.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So you may not think this is happening, but just
hear me out for a couple minutes. Are the Steelers
becoming the New York Giants? The Steelers would look at
now and go a mess. Legendary quarterback gets you to
a couple of Super Bowls. Elion big Ben family run
(08:12):
for generations, historic franchise, prides itself in stability, and then
the quarterback retires and it gets ugly really quick. Now,
the Giants winning got ugly really quick, and the Steelers
still win more, but their offense is pitiful. Now, to
the Steelers credit, they don't run through coaches. But to
(08:35):
the Giants credit, they've won a playoff game in the
last eight years, and so post Big Ben, as the
NFL made a massive pivot to offense over the last
seven to eight years. They can't get the quarterback right,
they can't get the running game right, they can't get
the O line right, and they struggle to get the
OC right. The one shining lot light is George Pickens,
(08:58):
the wide receiver. But a story came out yesterday that
he literally showed up late to a game on Christmas
against the Chiefs, and he is regularly late to games.
That's your star. No, that's just called a talented kid.
They come and go in this league. That's just a
talented kid. That's not a leader. So since twenty nineteen,
you don't think you're the Giants. But since twenty nineteen,
(09:21):
in an offensive league where you can't get quarterback, running
back O line right, the Steelers. And remember, their defense
gets them in good field position, their defense takes the
ball away, their defense gets sacks, making it easier on
the offense. In Pittsburgh, they have scored fewer touchdowns in
(09:42):
the last five years than the Jags, Raiders, Bears, and Browns.
The good news, though, you're a couple ahead of the Giants,
right you Steeler fan looks at the Giants and goes pitiful.
But the Eagle and the Rams and the Ravens and
(10:03):
the Chiefs and the top offenses look at Pittsburgh's offense,
which now is what Hoyst trophies, and they see pitiful.
That's what they see. I mean, we all look at
Pittsburgh's offense and we all just kind of got it's
here are the eight teams without a playoff win, eight
(10:28):
teams lent a playoff win in the last eight seasons. Steelers, Dolphins, Raiders, Panthers, Cardinals, Broncos, Bears, Jets.
You know who's not on that list, The New York Giants,
who you look down at. I do think Tomlin's saying,
there's quotes here. I don't know. If I don't know,
if we have the quoterback in the room, that is progress.
(10:49):
But you know, right now, I think it's interesting when
franchises that are proud like Dallas and Pittsburgh, look at
the Jags and the pan and the Jets and the Giants,
you do get you are much closer to that than
the Bills, the Ravens, the Chiefs, the Eagles, the Lions,
(11:09):
and the Rams. Adam Silver in forty five minutes joining
us today, it is getting very interesting. You know, you
can always tell j Mack before we brought you on here,
I took you out to dinner. Well, Mike McCarty, when
you get dinner, when you share a glass of veno
and you chop it up with people for dinner. That
usually means something special is happening. Mike McCarthy is having
(11:31):
dinner reportedly tonight in Chicago.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
Wait, was this before I got to Fox way back
two days?
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I don't remember much of your life, but I know
the dinner really was your wife and my wife there, Yeah,
I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, that was like twenty fifteen. Yeahah,
so Mike McCarthy, it's dinner, steaks and a glass of
wine tonight in Chicago.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
Fiels kind of standard. I do have a quick question
this George Piket's showing up late for a game.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
It's crazy. I was reading about it.
Speaker 6 (11:56):
So what happens if I show up, like I don't know,
twenty five minutes after the show starts.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Well, first of all, could be traffic. It's la certainly,
and it was Christmas, so you do give a guy
a bit of a pass. But I think the bigger
issue with Pickens is late to practice, late to games,
on field disruptions. I think it's the classic drip, drip drip.
Now the faucets broke, so it's not just the moment
people make mistakes. They get in recks. They this is
(12:22):
not a dog ate my homework thing yet, but it
does when it starts to compound with George Pickens and
he is right now the centerpiece of the offense. I
mean again, Jalen Hurts may not be the centerpiece of
Phillies offense, but he is reliable, he's a leader, he
shows up. So I mean, the difference in this league
often is not just talent. New England's dynasty was built
(12:46):
around leadership and Kansas City's dynasty. They don't have the
best team. Philadelphia's got better players, Detroit's got It's built
around dependable, sustainable leadership.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
So why then are we hearing after the Steelers get
eliminated Pickens showing up late on Christmas Mike Tomlin. There
were some reports that Mike Tomlin didn't intervene when Arthur Smith.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And Russell Wells.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
So like all of a sudden, there's this negative flow
of stories about Tomlin's leadership. Are they is somebody trying
to shove him out of Pat Well?
Speaker 1 (13:18):
I would say stories get out when somebody wants them out.
So why did the Pickens story get out? That could
be Tomlin's side saying hey, I'm getting buried here. This
is what I had to deal with.
Speaker 6 (13:32):
Or is it the other side, Hey, this guy's enabling Pickens.
They announced the inactiveties.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Well do you really think the Pickens party would want
this out?
Speaker 6 (13:42):
Well, I think somebody's trying to say, hey, Tomlin doesn't
have control. He didn't have it over Deontay Johnson, Antonio Brown.
This is a pattern. And also Arthur Smith and Russell
Wilson weren't getting along. That now comes out that wasn't
out there during the season. I'm like, I just wonder
if there's some kind of internal issue with Mike.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Tomlin's over it. Arthur Smith didn't get along with the Ross,
Peyton didn't get along with the Ross. Pete Carroll at
the end was tired to Ross. It's it's a Ross's
I mean that's seriously. If you go to three different
jobs and you don't get along with people, it's not
the people, it's you, right, Like they always say, in
a divorce, the one thing that is a constant in
(14:19):
a divorce is you, Like you're just bringing you to
a new relationship. That's why seventy percent of second marriages
and then divorce because you took you. You thought you
were getting rid of the problem. You are the problem.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and neonon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
So they are rolling out the red carpet for Mike
McCarthy and the Bears. I think Mike McCarthy smartly read
the tea leaves bailed on Dallas, which I think is
devastating potentially for the Cowboys because they can't even now
interview the top two coordinator candidates, Aaron Glenn and Ben
(15:04):
Johnson from Detroit. So they're rolling out the red carpet.
Just want you to consider this. The Commanders were broken,
the Broncos were broken, The Chargers were broken. What did
they all do? And by the way, the Patriots were broken,
They all went and hired experienced head coaches. Three of
them have made the Super Bowl three or four. I
(15:25):
know Mike McCarthy's ceiling is not Andy Reid, it's not
Sean McVeigh. I get that, But his floor in eighteen years,
twelve times is the playoffs. The Bears currently are not
a high ceiling team. Let's just say this and this
is what his resume proves that Mike McCarthy very quickly
(15:50):
stabilizes you and makes you a winning team. I'm not
talking thirteen twelve, eleven wins. You become a winning team
nine to eight, ten and seven, and he stabilizes you.
And then in four years you're like, yeah, but we
only won one playoff game. We've hit a ceiling. All right,
(16:11):
that's the worst case scenario. And then you, as Caleb
Williams signs his second contract and his first massive contract,
you go get the whiz Kid. Then you need stability.
I would hire Sully before I go Top Gun Maverick here, Chicago, Kate,
(16:31):
you are bat. You can't even line up properly. I
saw this morning you were third in the league in
false starts and fifth in most illegal formations. You just can't.
You can't even land the plane. Forget about doing circles
and top Gun upstairs. Gotta land the plane. So my
(16:51):
take is nine to eight and ten and seven is
a great place for Caleb Williams to be going forward.
You've been over five hundred one time in twelve years.
Instead of dumping your net worth into bitcoin, how about
you just open a savings account first and get the
(17:12):
basics down, like not illegal formation four times a game. Yeah,
I mean you're viewing yourself as hey, we're stable. No, no, no,
you're not. This isn't a little turbulence. You're crashing a
year after year after year, and so again twelve times
in eighteen years, three different quarterbacks, one an old legend,
(17:37):
won an ascending legend, and one paid like a legend,
and you keep getting all of them to the playoffs.
Eighteen years, twelve playoffs. I'm just asking you, Bears, to
upgrade from life support to stable condition. Let's not worry
about having perfect abs yet or running a four fifty mile.
(17:59):
Let's just get the stable condition and a better diet.
Mike McCarthy is stability and winning and playoffs and even
in four years, if you're like, yeah, I mean yeah,
we win nine and ten games, ye all take that.
That's landing the plane. Here's Caleb Williams and I love this.
(18:20):
He was on a podcast. Here's Caleb Williams on what
he's looking for for the coach.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
What are some qualities that you'd want here in your
next head coach?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Strong minded, a leader of men, selfishly.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
I want an officeive minded, guy, so I can build
with him and you know, be with be with their
coach for the next yeah, nineteen sev team fifteen years,
helping find the right guys to to, you know, I
mean win championships. That's some I mean, that's the only
goal that I have for my NFL career.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
By the way, I kind of like when the star
receivers hair matches the team's colors. I don't know, just me.
I don't know why I like that, but I like
that thought. I want a strong leader, you know, I
want a guy to be cool. If I had an
offensive coach, he didn't make a demand. He thought it
was really cool if he had an offensive coach. I know,
y'all think Ben Johnson and Mike McCarthy coach the different
(19:18):
sides of the ball. They're both offensive coaches. One has
got a very snazzy trick playbook, which is much easier
to do when you have Jared Goff the best O
line in football, great tight end, great receivers and two
great backs. Was Ben Johnson doing that four years ago?
Or did you just learn football? It's much easier, Like
Andy Reid, you ever noticed this, It's much easier to
(19:41):
be tricky when you're great at the basics, like Chicago's
got to get the basics down.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Easter not a em Pacific.
Speaker 8 (19:52):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together We're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world. We have a lot of fun talking
about the stories behind the stories in the world of
(20:13):
sports and pop culture, stories that well other shows don't
seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact
that we've been friends for the last twenty years and
still work together. I mean that says something right. So
check us out. We like to get you involved too,
take your phone calls, chop it up. As they say,
I'd say, the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio,
maybe the.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Most interactive show on planetar.
Speaker 8 (20:34):
Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to
seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific, And if you
miss any of the live show, just search Covino and
Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and of course on
social media.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
That's Covino and Rich. All Right, here we go, it's
our two. Been waiting for this for a long time,
live in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
It is the herd.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening,
thanks for making us part of your day. You know,
I used to have a relationship at the other Place
with David Stern, the late great Commissioner David Stern, who
was the boss of Adam Silver, And that was always
funny because he would join me during his lunch and
he was always eating during the interview, which I made
sure he knew that I knew. But the interviews were
(21:17):
feisty and fun. And so I've been looking forward to
this because the NBA is still incredibly culturally relevant, and
they just signed contracts with networks for seventy seven billion dollars,
and they do get beat up a lot because, let's
be honest, their star players are often bigger than NFL players.
So there's a lot to unravel and unpack here when
(21:39):
we bring on Adam Silver eleven years as the NBA commissioner.
So let's start with the good stuff. International expansion, China
and Africa. You have a new CBA for seven years.
You just signed a massive TV deal. I like the
NBA cup. I'm a distracted consumer. If the court's purple,
I know it matters. I like it. I think it works.
(22:00):
So there's a lot of good here, more good than bad.
But I'm gonna set this question up because this is
something I struggle with. I'm a consumer and I'm distracted.
I'm on my phone as much as TV. So I
have been watching Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese. They feel
like burden magic because I am viscerally connected to them
via college. This is why studios do sequels. I know
(22:22):
the actors. Zach Edy, I really like watching him plays,
having a very nice rookie season. But I know him
because Matt Painter and Purdue is a big time program.
It would be reductionist to say he's succeeding because he's big.
He's succeeding because of what Purdue did, and not only that, commissioner,
(22:43):
but I got to watch the growth. So I am
emotionally committed to Zach Edy, I think your heart was
in the right place with the G League, but it
hides players from me that I want to grow with.
Is there an argument to be made the college basketball
there's I feel like it's not not that it's marginalized,
(23:04):
but it's not as big as it could be. It
could be such a microwave for your stars, and the
league doesn't see it that way. Is that a fair criticism.
Speaker 9 (23:14):
I don't think it's a fair criticism because we do
see it that way and we're doing everything we can
to build college basketball. I mean, let me, let me
take a few steps back. Like, first of all, in
terms of the G League, most of the G League
players are either international players who didn't play in college
or former college players. In fact, we had a program
(23:35):
called Team McKnight. Yes kindaly, so Rice recommended we create.
There was an NCAA commission and you'll recall pre collectives
and nil money. President Obama criticized us, and then the
NCUBA had a commission and said there should be a track,
a pro track into the NBA because it was unfair
(23:55):
that the only opportunity for these young players was to
play without being paid in college. So we had already
had the G League, But then we created this program
called Team McKnight, where for a select few high school players,
if they wanted the opportunity to get to get paid
and then come into the NBA, they could play in
that program. But even then we recognized that compared to
(24:19):
the facilities the conditions at the top D one programs,
even though we were paying them and they couldn't have
been paid at that point, it was, they were still
better off playing at Kentucky or Louisville or Duke or
USC or wherever else. And so once the nil and
collective money came in, we actually shut down the Team McKnight.
(24:40):
We still have the G League, and the last thing
we want to do is take top prospects would otherwise
be going to school.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Take Cooper Flag at Duke.
Speaker 9 (24:48):
We'd rather he be there than be playing in the
NBA right now or be playing in the G League.
Speaker 5 (24:54):
We want those players to develop.
Speaker 9 (24:55):
So, you know, I think there's a misnomer to the
extent that you or others feel that we're not supportive
of college basketball. I'm personally a huge college basketball fan.
I'm Charlie Baker, the former governor of Massachusetts and now
head of the and Cuba. He and I've been meeting
a lot to talk about collectively what we can do
to better develop young American players, which clearly has to
(25:18):
begin before they get to college for the NBA. So
and you know, we are the league of the w
NBA too, And so I pay a lot of attention
to Caitlyn Clark and the star players that are emerging
and the WNBA and who are coming from college and
when whether it's Angel or Caitlin or Juju now and
(25:38):
these players come into the w NBA as you know,
built fully, you know, multi dimensional stars that people are
familiar with like it was in the old days in
the NBA.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
We love that.
Speaker 9 (25:50):
The problem is, like so many things in life, I'm
not sure we can turn the clock back on that
type of development.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
I will say it's positive, you know.
Speaker 9 (25:58):
Putting aside, I think there's some ishn't need to be
addressed in terms of the NIL system and the collectives.
It seems like nobody's really happy with it right now.
In terms of the competitive landscape, right I think it's
positive that those players are able to be paid, and
if they're able to be paid, particular of the players
that are on the margin of whether they or not
they would be lottery picks or first round draft picks.
(26:19):
They now have a huge incentive to stay in school
because they can there not only can get the further development,
but they can get paid as well.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Here's something that I addressed with David Stern, and I'll
address it with you too. I think trades are good
for sports. If you look at the best teams in
the NBA right now, Oklahoma City, Cleveland, and Boston, they
have smart front offices that have drafted and developed well.
They can occasionally make a Donovan Mitchell move or Porzingis
move or a Drew Holliday, but those teams have drafted
and developed well and they're being rewarded for it. You know,
(26:49):
Dallas drafted Luca. You know they can go get Kyrie,
but lucas the star. The NBA gets a little too
caught up if you take Lebron out. Let's just take
Lebron out. He is the historic out. Even Kevin Durant,
Warriors one before him, Warriors one after him. Is that
I think the league sometimes is too concerned with trades.
(27:09):
If Jimmy Butler, who's a good player, maybe not a
Superstar anymore went to Oklahoma City, I would want to
watch them more, or Golden State, I would want to that.
The league sometimes to protect the small markets. Let's not
worry too much about that. Let's just let players move
because the sense that it ruins the league or creates
a competitive balance outside of Lebron, it really doesn't. Most
(27:33):
of the great teams in this league historically have always
been draft and develop, build a core, and then add
sprinkle in some good players via trades.
Speaker 9 (27:45):
I don't think it's an accident that we've had six
different teams over the last six years that have won championships,
and at the end of the day, we sell competition.
And I hear you it sounds like you're making an
argument for dynasties to a certain extent, that we should
do more to allow a great player to go to
an already great team or an already very good team.
(28:07):
The problem is that it's zero sum. The players are
going to go somewhere. That's the great news. All the
top tier players are going to play in the NBA,
and that there is a correlation. It's far from perfect,
but there's a correlation between what players make and their
performance on the floor. And so what we've done, and
I understand your point of view over time is while
(28:27):
we have a soft cap system, it's become harder and
it has been more difficult once you have a fully
loaded team. So then add a great player on top
of that. And to your point, if Kevin Durant couldn't
have gone to Golden State from Oklahoma City when he did,
the team he had gone to would have almost by definition,
(28:48):
if it weren't already a great team, would have become
a great team. And for us, we think that's better
league wide in terms of creating more competition. I mean,
we're coming off a season last year, it's continued this year.
Or I think we have more competitive teams than any
time in league history. And to your point, the fact
that you know tomorrow night Cleveland and Oklahoma City are
(29:09):
playing yet again, you know, fantastic build up for that game,
incredible competition. We just got to remember at the end
of the day, that's what we're selling. I mean, I
think that's part of the reason for the enormous success
of the NFL. This any given Sunday notion, nobody thinks twice.
If if you know the Packers are in the Super Bowl.
There's no bemoaning that it's a small market whatsoever. And
(29:32):
I think our league, it's true that if you look
back on, you know, the first you know, sixty years
of our league, it seemed David Stern joked, you know
when when he came into the league, I thought the
job was you went back and forth from Boston to
la every year, and one of the teams got the rings.
Speaker 5 (29:47):
You know.
Speaker 9 (29:47):
And I think the fact that now we're selling competition
in every market, and that in terms of from a
television standpoint too, that you know, whether it's Oklahoma City,
whether it's San Antonio, whether it's Salt Lake City, that
those teams are in a position when well managed to
compete in the same way the large markets can.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
And by the way, I mean it's not just money.
Speaker 9 (30:09):
I mean players choose markets based on you know, climate taxes,
Some like big cities, some like small cities. Yeah, but
you know, I think I'm balanced. This is a much
better system for a thirty team league.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I'm gonna throw this at you. I said this the
other day about the esthetic of the NBA. It's a
bit homogenous, a little cookie cutter. And I said, listen,
I don't mind three pointers. But if the NFL was
just you could run the ball and throw bombs. No layering,
no drag routes, no tight end screen. It was just
run it or bombs. Optically, it's not as fascinating. And
(30:48):
I love the three pointer, but like and you know this,
you're a pretty progressive thinker. I think athletes are better.
Wemby can pull up and cross you over in a
dribbled and shoot. They couldn't do that ten years ago.
And the truth is, because your players are so gifted
and it's such a global pool, the three pointer is
too easy. And I have simply said I would put
(31:10):
the three pointer. I would go have it go into
the bench about six feet up, eliminate the corner. I'd
bring back the handcheck. I do like physicality. Your athletes
are so great it's become too easy to hit it,
and the optics on it are repetitive. I think there's
numbers ratings that prove people they like layers and power
(31:33):
forwards in physicality and not just dunks and threes. What
do you do to solve that? Because I think you've
engaged with people and acknowledged it can be a bit repetitive.
It is a bit of an issue. What do we
do to change it?
Speaker 9 (31:47):
That The hardest question is the last one you asked,
what do we do to change it? I agree to
the extent that you start to see very similar offenses. Yes,
around the league. You know, team have brands, teams have identity.
You know Joe Dumars is a colleague now at the
league office, the Bad Boys, et cetera. You know, I
think you know the Showtime Lakers. So I recognize that
(32:11):
the extent that offenses start to look very similar, we
lose that. At the same time, the league is going
through a transformation. Just as you said, players like Victor
Webbin Yama, players like you know Yokich are doing things
big men never did historically. I mean, it wasn't that
long ago.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Column.
Speaker 9 (32:27):
You'll remember that conversations you had with David Stern. We
would bemoan the lack of skill among some players that
you know, there there was a sense there was too
much physicality.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
Yes, that the.
Speaker 9 (32:40):
Play under the back, you know that that you would have,
you know, the hack a shack era. You know there
were big men that just couldn't shoot free throws. There
are no big men anymore who can't shoot by throws,
just as one comparable from general generation to generation have
never been higher.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
So I think we just got to be careful.
Speaker 9 (32:59):
Like the one one thing I want to do is
I don't want to sort of knee jerk move the
three point line. We're sort of going through a process
now seeing how these players are adapting to the new
rules and figuring out if whatever changes we should make.
I mean, be honest, I wish it were as simple
as just moving the three point line back, because then
we would just do it. I mean, part of the
concern from the basketball folks is that if you move
(33:22):
the three point line back, you'll end up sort of
just clogging up, you know, the sort of the area
under the basket, and that's not such attractive basketball either.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
I think this is doable.
Speaker 9 (33:33):
I think we by examining the game and sort of
seeing where it's going. I mean, it frustrates me a
little as well, because it's obviously you're representative of how
what a fair number of people are saying about the game,
and I watch it night in night out, and we're
seeing some of the most incredible athleticism and skill in
the history of this league.
Speaker 5 (33:54):
Again Victor Wembanyama.
Speaker 9 (33:55):
But I think you're also saying too that if we
move the three point line and what we ended up
with was Victor Minyama standing under the basket the whole time,
just waiting you're done, that wouldn't be interesting. So, you know, one,
I assure you we are on it. I think it's
a very fixable issue. I mean, it's you know we've
(34:15):
gone from I mean I always tell the story like
Bob Coosey, who I don't know, he's around ninety five
years old, still stays in touch with me, and he'll
call me after watching a game and say, I'm so
frustrated because the commentators think that what these players are doing,
let's say, from twenty eight feet or thirty feet and
seemingly just flicking the ball up with their wrists and
(34:37):
swishing these three pointers, that somehow that's easy. They said,
the skill level is incredible. But he'll also say, you know,
I think we all want to see diversity in the offenses.
But by the way, one other thing I'll just throw in,
I don't think the players are getting enough credit for
playing the style defense they're playing now as well. So
it's an incredible game. I know you love the game. It's,
(34:57):
you know, the number one participation sport in the United States.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
You mentioned Caitlyn Clark. It's incredible to see.
Speaker 9 (35:03):
What the women are now doing on the floor and
the amount of young girls who are playing this game.
So as stewards of the game, you know Joe Dumar's
leads our competition committee here, you know we will tweak it,
we will correct those issues.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
So years ago I had a President Barack Obama on
a couple of times, and one of the things I
offered him, I said, you're the first president in my
life that's had the deal with social media and the
vile nature of it. It may not change policy, but
does it change the discussions in the briefing rooms before
you go out? Does it change the way perhaps you
think of policy. Because we're in a tribal nation, it's
very loud. So along those lines, I love George Brett
(35:39):
as a baseball player. As a kid Kansas City Royals,
George Brett often missed thirty games in a season. Nobody
thought it was load management, right, we live in a
different time. Platforms call it out and tickets are more expensive,
so it does bother me I'm a small town kid.
I went once a year to see downtown Freddie Brown,
Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson, Jack Sikma. If they didn't play,
(36:02):
that was the game I got. And I can see
that little kid in Milwaukee, middle class family go and
Yannis could play, but he doesn't. Is it a bigger problem?
I think it's a problem. Do you view it as
being sort of platformed up by loud voices or does
the league look at this and think, you know, our
(36:22):
middle class fans they go to one game a year,
they're not corporate stewards, and that they want to go
and see their stars play. I think it's serious. Do
you in the league think it is a problem that
is something you want to solve.
Speaker 9 (36:39):
We so much think it's a problem that in the
last collective bargaining agreement you may recall, we added some
provisions to further incentivized players to play as many games
as they possibly can by making them ineligible for certain awards,
certain benefits if they fall below a certain level of games.
Having said that, to your point, you know, and I'm
(37:02):
never going to shoot the messenger. In terms of whether
it's social media or the media, it's a real issue.
And how can you know for that family for that
one time that they're going to go see the Box
or the Lakers or the Knicks or whatever else. I
completely understand their point of view. The problem is as
much as we are an eighty two game league.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
I mean take Lebron for example.
Speaker 9 (37:24):
Okay, Lebron has missed I think three games so far
this season. Yeah, he's forty years old, he has the
most minutes in NBA history, and he's missed I think
three out of let's say thirty seven games so far.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
I think that's incredible.
Speaker 9 (37:39):
Now for the family that went to the Laker game
of one of those three games, I understand their disappointment,
and I know he does as well. You know, it's
with it with its season as long as we have,
by the way, and whether it's because load management or
an injury, it's still the same impact on that family.
(38:01):
And all I can say is we've worked with our teams.
We're working a lot on the science. I think, incidentally,
you don't hear load management so much around the league
anymore because I think we've dispelled that notion that it's somehow,
through some analytics or a computer program that on November twelfth,
(38:21):
you can make a decision that a player should sit
out on December twentieth, which is what was going on
in the league. And in fact, my understanding, at least
of the data that's come in so far, it may
even be the case that some of the early season
injuries are caused by players not having enough load.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Because even thank you again, you.
Speaker 9 (38:42):
Know, it's fascinating, Like when I got to the league
a little over thirty years ago, a lot of players
would take the month of August and like literally go fishing,
you know. They would show out and they would like
eat a little bit more, gain a little bit of weight.
They'd come into training camp and that's when you got
back into shape and you'd lose those pounds and you'd
play your way and and and train and practice back
(39:05):
into game shape. Now there's not there's hardly a player
in the league that isn't working out every single day.
Guys even go to the finals, they take a day off,
they're back on the floor. But often it's specialized one
on one training, it's weight room work, whatever it is.
It's not five on five basketball. Because and a lot
of it. In fairness, these players and that's what frustrates
(39:27):
me too, because they don't take a day off. There's
some of the hardest working athletes out there, but then
they have it in their head that they're more likely
to get injured if they're playing five on five.
Speaker 5 (39:38):
So yeah, right, sorry.
Speaker 9 (39:39):
So then they come back into training camp and it's
still not necessarily five on five. There's the preseason again,
minutes are limited. Then boom, the regular season comes and
at least I can't say it's perfect. I know it's
causation yet, but there's certainly correlation early in the season
that you see those guys.
Speaker 5 (39:58):
And it's interesting.
Speaker 9 (39:59):
It used to it be we would hear from teams
that you're going to injure our players if they play
for USA Basketball, the US national team, the Olympic team,
where the national teams you know, from the countries they're from.
Speaker 5 (40:11):
In fact, it's the opposite.
Speaker 9 (40:13):
We have fewer injuries and maybe not surprisingly from the
guys who participate in competition over the summer because the
load is maintained. They're not overdoing it, you know, I
mean I I but you know they come back and
there's the consistency of the load, you know, throughout the
off season. So I think this is an area too
(40:34):
where better data, you know, AI is changing everything where
we're going to be in a position, I think where
we can convince the teams and convince the players that
actually playing is in their interest. But unfortunately we're never
going to be able to completely solve that issue for
that family that comes to that game and is disappointed.
(40:56):
I will say, just lastly, it maybe speaks a little
bit to the data that were coming off last year.
In the entire history of the NBA, it was our
highest attendance and I'm sure I mean I read that market,
no doubt the highest ticket prices too. So I will say, yes,
they're fans disappointed, but people love the NBA experience, they
(41:17):
love going to the games. I understand when there's a
particular star you're interested. But also we've never been deeper
in terms of the talent to four hundred and fifty
players in the league.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Okay, I'm gonna ask you a couple quick ones because I
know you're a busy guy, much busier than me, and
these can these can require shorter answers. So one of
the things the iPhone has changed everything. Our society is
more caffeinated more distracted and more frenetic. Hockey regular season,
baseball regular season, NBA regular season, it's just harder to
get ratings. Events UFC on Saturday, college football, NFL, Olympics,
(41:48):
World Cup events get excellent ratings. It's not necessarily the
fault of a league if there's a decline in Monday
through Friday. And as I look and read stories about
the decline of ratings, my take is it's an iPhone issue.
It's not baseball until Otawni and the Dodgers put up
basically the best most talented team ever, the Dodgers had
(42:09):
great ratings. Is that can you just is it just
possible that, hey, we have contracts that limit the number
of games we can be reduced to. We don't want
to make one and done like college basketball? Is that
your regular season ratings they don't matter that much because
I just saw your new TV deals and that the
media makes a bigger deal of the truth is we're
(42:29):
good when it matters in May and June, and that's
just a new world.
Speaker 9 (42:35):
Yeah, you asked me to answer shorter, so I'll try
to be. There's so much that could be set on this.
So first of all, this season just to set the
record straight, We're up about four percent on ESPN and ABC.
If you had TNT into the mix, we're down slightly
three or four percent for this season.
Speaker 5 (42:57):
That's our rating story so far.
Speaker 9 (42:59):
We're coming off last season where it was our highest
regular season ratings in four years. But the issue is
especially for a sport like the NBA where we have
a very young fan base young men, yes, young women,
cable as you know, and I'm sure it has an
impact on your show as well that since you last
(43:21):
interviewed me five plus years, there's been yet another dramatic
increase in the number of people who subscribe i'll call
traditional television, cable, satellite television, or who watched traditional television,
so much so that from a decade ago, it's like
fifty percent fewer people watch traditional television. In fact, last
(43:41):
year the lines crossed. More people are now watching programming
on streaming services than they are through legacy conventional television.
Speaker 5 (43:50):
So back to the iPhone.
Speaker 9 (43:51):
So those deals you talked about that we just entered
into for next year. Part of the reason I believe,
in addition to the sport itself, that we're able to
provide so much value is every one of those new
partners Disney and ESPN, NBC, Universal, Peacock, and of course
Amazon provide their games through streaming. Maybe in the case
(44:15):
of NBC it's also broadcaster or Disney, ABC and ESPN.
But every single game beginning next season is going to
be available on a streaming service. And then, you know,
burden on our, onus, on us. Then that we know,
now there's the opportunity to watch this programming on those
screens on those TVs they carry everywhere they go. But
(44:37):
I think as a result, we have to up our
game too. So they're adding more games of consequences, the
colored floors you joked about before for the NBA Cup,
So that gets people's attention. But beyond that, they really
exciting thing to me about moving to streaming services, which
are in essence Internet television. You can add all kinds
of incredible functionality, customization, personalization. People want to bet on games,
(45:02):
they can do it. People want to buy merchandise, they're
fascinated with a particular camera angle, or they want an
audio feed that is directed at hardcore fans or casual fans.
So I think, and this isn't just a case for
the NBA. I think for all of the leagues that
the competition is that much greater than it used to be,
and so we have to do a better job engaging
(45:24):
our fans in these games.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Okay, I promise. I know your PR people are probably saying,
get coward.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
Out of you.
Speaker 5 (45:29):
I can ignore them, thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Okay, there's another one. So this really bothers Jason McIntyre.
I think he really has been on this for two years.
He's been very publicly critical of Barkley banging on the league.
And my take is just I'll cut to the chase.
Have you ever called that show's executives or Charles and said, Charles,
(45:55):
could could you not beat down on us every night?
That there are those that believe it takes a negative
tact or tone on a fairly consistent basis. I don't
think it affects the ratings. I think they're entertainment show.
But I don't see the research you do. Have you
contacted them at one point and said you guys are
a little negative.
Speaker 9 (46:16):
Never ever, ever, And the only contact I've ever had
with them, and it would have been with Ernie. It's
occasionally Ernie and I will talk and he'll say we're
going to be discussing some aspect of the salary cap
or you know, the CBA, and it'll like, just give
me a primer on what the rules are, so that
if somebody says something that is factually wrong, I'm in
(46:39):
a position to correct them. But so that's just on facts,
never on opinion. And I'll go one step further. I mean,
as you know, you know, we didn't continue our relationship
with Turner Sports. Yeah that produces inside the NBA, but
we just got a deal done with ESPN and Turner
Sports to move that very show too. He is Canon ABC,
(47:02):
And I'll go further. And I love Jason by the way, Jason,
thank you for being a fan that I think in
this case they are unique. I think sometimes others who
are more critical I won't say names, but we'll get
our equivalent of you or mail and people say, why
is this guy commentating or announcing on the NBA when
(47:26):
it seems that he doesn't even like the league. And
I think that's a fair point if you think somebody
is that negative. And to me, there's always a tradition
in the NFL for almost all the announcers to me,
seem to celebrate the game in the case, in the
case of that panel, Charles Kenny Shack of course, Ernie,
I always have the sense that when they are critical,
(47:48):
it's your uncle at the Thanksgiving Day table. You know
this is it's it's the family. They have the credibility.
And because I also hear I don't call them, but
I hear from players in the league or teams in
the league, or say ah like there are partner like
why are they saying those things?
Speaker 5 (48:06):
And I think Charles is special.
Speaker 9 (48:08):
By the way, there's a reason that show has won
close to I think two dozen Emmys, and so I
think it generates more interest in the league and to
the extent that next year that show will be featured
on ESPN and ABC and more people will have the
opportunity to see it.
Speaker 5 (48:25):
I think that's very positive for the league.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Well, this was fun, and I do appreciate you not
eating during the interview because I love David, but it
was a tune of Sandwich every time he came on
with me, and it was his favorite.
Speaker 5 (48:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
I found that. I discovered that over several years a
real pleasure. If you're ever in LA I'd love to
have you. I think this kind of stuff is important.
I like the pok in prod and I just appreciate
you answering the questions.
Speaker 9 (48:49):
Yeah, Colin, and I wish I had asked this at
the top of the interview. How are you guys doing
everything that's going on out there?
Speaker 1 (48:54):
I gotta tell you, it's the most devastating thing I've
ever seen. Los Angeles, as you know, is a community
with a very diverse community. People come here and chase
their dreams, and it feels like a lot of dreams
have been shattered by a lot of really great people
in a lot of industries. But I have seen giving
at a level that is heartwarming from outside of Los Angeles,
(49:17):
and in Los Angeles people have opened their doors. Very
encouraging by citizens of Los Angeles.
Speaker 9 (49:25):
Yeah, I'll to say, you know, I was just with
some of the Lakers and Clippers executives at some meetings
and first why I think, you know, the Clippers into
a dome. We're going to do you know, a huge
concert with the azof family. Yes, money, you know. In addition,
you know I've been on the phone with JJ Reddick.
Of course he lost his house. He explained to me
how the community center, the rec center where his son
(49:47):
was playing burns the ground. So the league is going
to come up with a program with the Lakers and
Clippers to help rebuild the community. So you know, again,
the images are just terrific from the East coast. I'm
very sorry.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
Yeah, terrifying. But there's a lot of really good people
in this state, in this city. Adam Silver, the commissioner
of the NBA who presides by the way over five
different sport leagues A sports League, NBAWNBA G League, NBA
two K Basketball after League, thank you so much for
taking time for us. I told before this show, I said, listen,
we can I get eighteen minutes. You gave us twenty nine.
(50:21):
I am indebted and thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (50:24):
Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you all right. J Mack.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
I waited to the end to ask the question about
Charles Barkley. I kept watching you, but I did ask
that question. Adam Silver, thank you so much for joining
us on the show.
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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