April 23, 2025 • 45 mins
Colin talks about the Lakers winning game 2 of their series vs the Timberwolves and despite Luka Doncic and Anthony Edwards being on the court, LeBron James at 40 years old is still the player who sets the tone for the game. He believes Giannis Antetokounmpo will end up requesting a trade after another dominant performance but the Bucks losing again in the playoffs. Plus, NFL draft expert Lance Zierlein joins the show in studio to break down Colorado quarterback Shedeur Sanders and Ole Miss quarterback Jaxson Dart.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Oh here we go. It is a Wednesday eve of
the NFL Draft. We got all sorts of stuff. In fact,
something may break during the show wherever you may be
and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us
part of your day. Very very interesting night tonight, the
(00:47):
Warriors try to make a two to zero on Houston.
You know Jay Mchatterday, We talked during the show the
line Vegas was telling you who was gonna win the
game last night, not because the Lakers were favored, but
it was a five and a half points spled, which
considering they got thumped in Game one, kind of told
you what the odds Bakers thought is that they were
gonna play with much more energy. So we kept saying,
(01:09):
you know, Lakers are the side They're gonna win. They're
gonna win comfortably. It actually was closer at the end
that it needed to be, because the Lakers really thumped them.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Well, they took their foot off the gas and the
fourth but Lakers for sure, easy, easy winner.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
All right. So the two biggest differences from Game one.
Number one, Lakers were immediately physical and made Minnesota work
for everything. And number two is the tea Wolves couldn't
hit their threes and they shoot a lot of them,
and they did all year. But when Ant, who's a
great three point shooter, is two for eight, they're in trouble.
And they were. And I thought last night is what
(01:41):
I actually thought the series was gonna look like, which
is a limited offensive team with Ant being the best player,
and you're kind of crossing your fingers night to night
if Julius Randall can deliver. He was good last night.
But what's remarkable to me that at forty years old,
with other stars in the game like Luca and Anne,
Lebron is still the tone setter in that game last night, activity, energy, defense,
(02:06):
setting the tempo. It was Lebron and you could feel
his presence every time he was on the floor. And
it's interesting if you go to Lebron's career following a loss,
he's the very best Lebron. In fact, Lebron's always been
great in the second game of a playoff series. He
tends to feel out the first game and then attack
(02:27):
in the second game, sort of how all of us
are with the second cup of coffee at work. You know,
that first cup of coffee, you're trying to get organized,
where not any of us are not really capable of
completing a grown up task until we're into the second
cup of coffee. And that's how Lebron does it. He
eats like a boxer that feels out the first round,
and then he attacks in round two. And that's what
(02:48):
Lebron did. And that's why Lebron's comp is not Michael Jordan,
it's Brady. For Brady at forty five years old to
league the NFL and pass attempts and throw for forty
seven hundred yards lead the league in completions. That's Lebron
who in year twenty two, with other stars on the
floor in a crucial game for the Lakers, Lebron's the
(03:09):
tone center. And remember Lebron tried to pass the baton
to a D four years ago. He tried to say, hey, dude,
I'm not into points. Lead us in scoring. And although
AD finally got in shape and Ad was very consistent defensively,
you never knew what you were getting from Ad offensively.
(03:31):
So so often Lebron would wait when he was a
team at a AD, he would play a very soft
first quarter, want Ad to take the baton with scoring,
and AD wouldn't, and then Lebron would have to take
over and pray Austin Reeves could help him be the two.
This is where Lebron and Luca are great, is that
Lebron's not into the points thing. He doesn't care. He
(03:53):
wants energy in the fourth quarter. He conserves it when
he can, Like last night, he couldn't. He had to
play with energy right out of the gate, but he
was letting Luca take over the scoring. Lebron's not one
of these guys that needs the buckets. He wants to win.
That's what his legacy is. So last night Luca thirty
one points, Lebron twenty one. He is totally comfortable with that.
(04:16):
That's why Ad and Lebron. There's a lot of talk now,
it could be internet rumors that Lebron knew the trade
was coming. I don't know if he did, but I
think Lebron was okay with the trade because Lebron is
always understood who plays off me well? Austin Reeves, he
loves him, Why he can score and shoot. He didn't
(04:37):
like Kyle Kuzma. Why has Milwaukee found out he still
can't shoot? Lebron couldn't depend on Kuzma. Lebron feels like, oh,
I can depend on Austin Reeves in most series to
be good, although he's been a little clunky so far.
So this to me is what really is amazing. This
is the fifty fifth playoff series for Lebron and he
(05:00):
mains the tone setter with Aunt and Luca also on
the floor. And here was Lebron in his Game two performance.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
We looked at what we didn't do so well, which
was a lot of things in Game one. We take
that the heart. We hold each other accountable, We make
the adjustments, and we had a better out on tonight,
and now we have we need to be even better
on Friday, you know, you know, going into Minnesota. So
that's what the playoffs is all about.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
It.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
But you've got to be able to say even kill
no matter what's going on.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I do like the Lakers in this series. I think
it probably goes six, not five. But this is what
I thought it would look like. And it's a really
big distinction between A d and Luca Lebron. After they
won the championship, the COVID Championship, remember the next year,
Ad came out of shape to camp and I was
(05:51):
told to tick Lebron off. It was like, okay, dude,
it's your team. I'm gonna be ready for the fourth
and he couldn't because you never knew what you were
getting with Ad. And then he got healthy, took his
body seriously, but in the end, Lebron still couldn't trust him. Offensively,
Lebron loves Luca. Luca can have eighteen point quarters, twenty
three point halves, and it lets Lebron play off the ball,
(06:14):
conserve some energy. This Lebron is always known who we
would play well with and who he wouldn't. He knows
the game and he knew there's two guys, three guys
in the league. I'd be great with Steph and he
flirted for a couple of years. Steph said, no, thanks, yo, Kitch,
that's never gonna happen. Denver's not letting him go. And Luca.
(06:38):
I believe Lebron is always known, Steph, Yokitch and Luca
are the three stars in this league he would trust
and he'd be great with. And now he's got one. Okay,
so this came out. Oh boy, I can hear all
the young media fanboys freaking out over this. Tom Pelisero,
NFL Network apparently wrote an article on Sudor sanders settle
(07:00):
of good stuff, but there were multiple people who did
not like Shadure Sanders' attitude. Now this is a story
now because Shadoor Sanders. Over the last week to two weeks,
we've heard about him dropping in the draft. One of
the quotes in the story was the worst formal interview
I've ever seen in my life. Horrible body language, blames teammates.
(07:23):
Biggest thing is he says not that good. An assistant
NFL coach told Pallisero, I didn't it didn't go great
in our interview. He wants to dictate everything what he's
gonna do, and he kind of makes you feel small.
So listen, interviews do matter a little bit for quarterbacks.
Baker Mayfield, I was told was so good in his interviews.
He had so much football knowledge. He had such great energy,
(07:45):
great eye contact, sent to humor. People were blown away
with Baker Mayfield in the interview. He was good on
the whiteboard, funny, confident, without arrogant. So my takeaway on
this is, yeah, this is part of being in a quarterback.
Aaron Rodgers, by the way, read Ian O'Connor's book. Why
did he drop in the draft? Aaron came across as
(08:08):
too cocky. It matters. I can just already see the
fence being built to protection you or Sanders, who I like.
But the scouts they're not just making stuff up. Coaches
don't make stuff up. Remember we were warned about Kyler
Murray's attitude. Yeah, they were right, Cam Newton's ego, Johnny
(08:29):
Manziel's focus, if Josh Rosen could stay healthy, Jay Cutler's arrogance, Yeah,
they were right on olvos. And now people say what
about c J. Stroud? Oh boy, people like c J. Stroud.
They said his comp was Jared Goff, super accurate, doesn't
(08:50):
get hurt, doesn't move a ton. That's not a bad comp.
Jared gofffend to a super Bowl? Okay, and the other
thing was, there's it's a new test out. It's called
an S two evaluation. It's just more information. It doesn't
mean it's fool proof. CJ. Stroud did not do well
on it. Bryce Young had an amazing through the roof score.
(09:12):
So obviously it doesn't just equal wins. But it's more information.
It's a cognitive test, and people think it's better than
wonder Lick. It's really good with quarterbacks. You still need
a left tackle and a good coach and a good
coordinator and a good owner and a good general manager.
But it's just more information. So this article has a
ton of nice things about shudeor Sanders. It says a
(09:33):
bunch of nice stuff, but there are a couple of
people that say it comes across as cocky. And I've
said this, and I said this about Kayleb Williams. Over
the next two to three years, you got to be
very careful. I believe in judging a kid's confidence as
an NFL scout because they're all getting paid now, they're
all millionaires coming into the game, and some of those
(09:54):
kids have had money. Some of those kids have not
had money. But last year class Caleb Williams Jayden Daniels
and especially Caleb Williams. He was the first quarterback ever
drafted that was richer than any of the scouts that
interviewed him. I mean that you had a better net
worth before he signed a contract with the Bears. And
(10:15):
so if the kids have money now they're being empowered
by NFL, there's gonna be a little bit of confidence.
And I think some of that confidence will come across
as arrogancet NFL people because these kids now they don't
come in wide eyed, they're driving new cars, they may
own a condo, their families more set. They're going to
come in and not grovel to you. And I think
(10:37):
a lot of NFL people are kind of used to
quarterbacks coming in, Yes, sir, Nosa, Hey, coaches, they got
more money than you do. So I do think this
is something over the next three or four years to
watch it play out. I when I hear worst interview ever,
that seems a little dramatic to me, But I would
say this to the media as well, take a deep breath.
(11:00):
This is just all information. Interviews matter. They were right
on Johnny Manziel. I mean, Cam Newton's a great podcaster.
Why because he's more personality. That's why in the NFL
never had back to back winning seasons. But he was memorable.
Like that's what people said going into the Cam Newton draft,
like he's a lot of personality, a little bit into Cam.
(11:21):
Everybody freaked out. And that's actually why Cam's kind of
a good podcaster. He's a performer. And that was what
they say. This stuff is mostly right, right. It was
right on Johnny Manziel And by the way, the people
that love Baker Mayfield, not everybody, but the people that
loved them, they're like, he can read a defense, Teammates
(11:42):
will love him. He's got a ton of confidence. They've
been right on Baker Mayfield. And the critics of him
myself were a little bit of ego, kind of amateur,
maybe not as good athletically as people think. And that
was right too. So don't overreact to this. I can
see young people now coming into the sport with a
little lego, a little confidence. They've been paid, they made money.
(12:04):
It's not the end of the world. I think Chadur's
biggest issue is one that is well documented arm mobility, size.
His traits are okay, that's the issue. The interview stuff.
This feels a little hot for me, but I can
see everybody freaking out. This is unfair. No, it's not.
(12:26):
It's totally fair. This is the game. This is what
happens when you're a quarterback. Andrew Luck came out literally
a perfect prospect, and people questioned his armstring. It's like
you watched him. Do you ever think you know Andrew
Luck's a noodlelarm? Other than that, he's fantastic, Like everybody
gets picked apart. Take a deep breath, all right, But
(12:48):
it is interesting Jmac that a week ago to two
weeks ago, because these interviews were done a long time ago.
Now they're getting out because people are doing a lot
of articles and so you know, the athletics got six
articles a day and now stuff's coming out. I do things.
What is interesting though, that even the people who like
(13:09):
Shadure Sanders, like there's the giants. People in the building
like him, the buildings also split. See what you're getting
with Shadour Sanders is because let's take cam Ward out.
He's going to the Titans every quarterback after that, Jackson Dart.
People are very mixed. Chadur mixed, Jalen Milroll mixed. What
we have outside of cam Ward is B the B
(13:33):
minus quarterback prospects, and when you have that, you get
divided opinions.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah, your chure point is great. I think it's worth
a larger discussion. So, Colin, you and I have run businesses. Kay,
You've interviewed a lot of people. Yeah, some kid comes
in thinking he's a hot shot. Hey, I worry what's
up man acting all cool and too cool for school.
I've made my money, I've got my social media following.
If he acts like that, are you more likely to
hire him? Or be like, Oh, if this is what
(13:59):
he's like in the interview, what's this guy gonna be
like to deal with? I know you want to give
pause that they're some of these coaches are older, and
then what yes, sir? No, sir? I so door's walking
in there like his stuff don't stink. I don't know
that I want that in my building as a young
leader of a football I don't.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I remember when my daughter was interviewing for jobs and
I talked to her about this. I said, I'm just
going to tell you what Dad thinks. You can take
this information for whatever you want. But I own a
business and I have a staff. I have a radio
TV staff, I've got a volume staff. I said, don't
ask about vacation, right, don't ask. When I hear that,
(14:37):
I'm like, oh, I said, I don't care if you
think that's what all the young hipsters ask about his
work life balance. Nobody wants to hear about work life balance.
That's the only advice I'm gonna give you. You're gonna work
and work hard. When do I start? I said, I'm
just telling you for dad in my generation and my
generation owns a lot of those businesses were turned off
(14:59):
by that because we worked our butt off. We're not
gonna work you to the ball. We're not asking for
seventy hours a week. But if you ask about vacation
and that's a real priority, you know what, go'll be
an influencer on IG.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
By the way, Patrick Mahomes' his dad was a professional
baseball player. You think he walked into interviews with NFL
teams acting like he was the man. I'm not bashing
shodoor here. I personally would take him at two or three.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
So it almost feels like there's an old coach somewhere
around the league who sat in on an interview and
heard and saw this and was like, yes, I want
this guy. If he's acting like this in an interview,
what's he going to be like in the locker room?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Well, and again it's I think both are true. I
think young quarterbacks now and young college football players come
in with money so they're not groveling. I think that's true.
That's not a bad thing, but it's true. I also
think it depends on the coach. I think as Sean
McVay would handle it better. But there are a lot
of coaches in this sport, old defensive coaches. They want
(15:56):
a you know, a kind of Neil to me.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Quite kiss the ring, right, But there's social respect. I mean, now,
Brian Dable, he can't roll into the meeting and be like,
here's all my super Bowl rings. He can't do that,
whereas a Belichick could back in the day, Mike Tomlin
could do that, here's my super Bowl ring son, how
are you?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, but I'm very curious about that. By the way,
you and I have both interviewed for jobs. I have
had good interviews. I think I interviewed pretty well. But
I had interviews before where I walk out and I'm like,
that was weird. Yeah, he was like, the interviewer is
aggressive or they're not. They're not really looking for what
I provide. So listen interviews. These interviews are not four
(16:37):
hours long. Sometimes they're ten minutes. Not all interviews go well.
I mean, I've done a million podcasts with people. Sometimes
a podcast is over and I'm like, that wasn't a
very good podcast. It just never got going.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Some of the advice you would give your kid, hey,
play it safe, you know, don't say anything risky, and
feel out the interview the way Mike Tyson would feel
out of Fight or Lebron feels out a series he's in.
Speaker 6 (16:59):
Don't come in all.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
And I just wonder if Shador has turned off enough
that he plummets here in the I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I still contend. I still contend Cam Newton turns some
people off, but Cam was so damn talented. Who cares?
But Chadors not in his class? Well, that's what I'm saying.
Caleb Williams turns some people off. Kalum's too talented. The
biggest issue with Shadeur is arm okay, mobility, average size. Eh,
(17:26):
that's the issue is that if if people like I
keep hearing about you know this kid that went transferred
to UCLA, Niko. Everybody's oh, bad, bad, bad kid. If
he lights it up at Ucla or had he lit
it up at Tennessee, he's going in the first round,
got them to the playoff? Yes, yeah, come on in
(17:46):
the end, the greater the talent.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Just to be clear, I would take Shadoor at three
if I were the g I know people don't love him.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I would.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I haven't interviewed him or anything, but I would look
hard at Like if you don't get a quarterback and
you're the Giants, hello five and twelve, Like, that's where
you're heading.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You and I are both on we like him more
than the world does. So and these stories, it's just
part of the game.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
All right, welcome back. So you know, for a couple
of years, thank god, I don't read social media, but
for a couple of years, here's all I've heard. Every
time we talk about the Milwaukee Bucks. I've come on
this show and said, yeah, they're too old. It's not
gonna work time to blow it up. They don't have
any draft picks. They gave up too many for Dame.
It's not gonna work. And Milwaukee fantasy like you guys
(18:36):
cherry pick, you don't watch the games, you don't know. No,
Actually we've been right. They're gonna lose to the Pacers.
I predicted a week ago. I said Pacers got better players.
Pacers have an undervalued roster. Pacers have three really good
players in their prime. Milwaukee Jannis is a twenty five
million dollar chandelier in a rundown house and so, and
(18:57):
he's putting up huge numbers in this series. He's a monster.
He didn't have good enough players around him. He's had
one and I'm not blaming him. He's great. He's probably
slightly out of his prime, or maybe he's in his prime,
but he's great. But it doesn't matter. They don't have
draft picks. The Kyle Kuzma move of the deadline was
a nothing burger. Dame is a weakness defensively and passed
(19:19):
his prime. So Milwaukee's had one great playoff run and
they won a title. Every other year has been a
disappointment since then. And they're gonna get they're gonna get
knocked out of the series. They'll win Game three, but
they're gonna get knocked out of this series. In fact,
in Giannis's last seven playoff games, he's had huge numbers.
The Bucks are zero for seven. So again, the national
(19:41):
media skepticism was right on point. He's doing thirty five
and fifteen in this series and they're down zero two
and they're clearly the inferior team. And we were saying
on this show three years ago, you don't have to
sit and watch every NBA game. They're just not athletic enough,
they're not young enough. Boston still got some youth. Cleveland
has youth, you can Oklahoma City's got youth. There's a
(20:03):
lot the West has tons of young athletic teams. Milwaukee's
too old. So listen, this this town's This city lost
Louel Cinder Farvan, Aaron Rodgers and somehow survived. To me,
you could guarantee your viability as a franchise by trading
Giannis in the offseason and getting five first round picks
(20:24):
and four players. I mean, look what Rudy Gobert gott
You can get a ton and it'll guarantee for the
next ten years, you're a viable franchise. You are not
winning a trophy with Giannis. You don't have the draft capital.
Dame's getting older by the second. Kyle Kuzma's not it.
You're not winning a trophy. So what are your standards?
(20:45):
I mean, Green Bay the Packers may have their faults,
but they're trying to win super Bowls. They're making moves
to win Super Bowls. Milwaukee, you want to be a
playoff team because Boston and Cleveland and are significantly better. Like,
it's not close athletically, defensively, and so it's one of
(21:06):
these things when people say you can't trade Luca. You
could trade Luca. You can't do it for one first
round pick. If you're a trade Luca to the Lakers
for a D Austin Reeves and three first round picks. Okay,
you got to sleep on that. Jannis, he may not
be able to get a free throw. I'd want four
first round picks. I'd want an all star level player
(21:29):
and then two or three other players because I wouldn't
have to pay him anymore. Right, I could get some
expiring contracts, but this thing's not working. Yeah, I know
the media Cherry picks. No. Sometimes the national guys because
they're not as emotionally embedded in the franchise, can see
the truth. You are watching the truth in this series.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Easter not a em Pacific Draft coverage YEP.
With the first pick the biggest states that know about
every player and every team.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
You've got it right here.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
God listen as Fox NFL insider Jay Glazer, former New
York Jets general manager Joe Douglas, College Football Hall of
Famer and former number two overall pick, LaVar Eringtech and
Fox Sports lead college football reporter Jenny Tap delivered a
pick pick covering with the next nighty Night, Fox Draft
Night Live lives right here on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Here we go. It's our two first one flew by
Draft begins tomorrow Warriors Rockets. Tonight. Jay Mack is just
throwing throwing hypotheticals at me left and right now. He's
got his legs under him because yesterday he got into
town Monday, and yesterday was his first show back from Japan,
(22:49):
so he was a little groggy, but today very laser focal. Well,
you know, it's fun. We get spor on anything.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yesterday's talk about the top American basketball player that's.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Down there wild in the internet.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
We loved our discussion, and I hope the overrated one
doesn't go wow because we disagree as quick.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I will tell you this, Listen. I don't even know
why this is, but hockey guy, you can know it's
to hockey guys insecure in America. Anytime you talk about
the NBA, Hockey's better, nobody watches hockey. The ratings for
the playoffs last year, hockey ratings this year. ESPN signed
(23:28):
a bad contract. It's not viable. The NBA is fine.
It will aways be fine because it's a star driven
league which has a cultural impact in America. Okay, you
can name fifteen NBA players. You don't even have to
like the league. You can name four Warriors, right like
nobody's sportscasters in America can't name six hockey players. So
the ratings came out over the weekend for the playoffs.
(23:49):
It was the highest TV ratings in twenty five years. Well,
it was easter whatever, they were good games. The bottom
line is the NBA got off to a really slow
start because it was an election year. October November, even
the NFL was down. Okay, and also we had a
Yankee Dodger World Series, we had a college football Playoff.
It was a distracted nation. The NBA works, and they
(24:12):
just signed a seventy six billion dollar contract because it's
star driven. And folks, I've been in this business for
a long time. Here's what works. Every industry in a
distracted nation with stars. The UFC was more popular when
Connor McGregor and John Jones were in their prime. It
still makes a lot of money, but those guys drove
(24:34):
huge revenue. Baseball right now, it's got all its stars
in the right markets. Otani, Freeman, Betts in La Aaron
Judge and Soto in New York. It's got its stars
in the right place. Harper Philadelphia, Ocunya Atlanta. You don't
want your you know, like in the beginning of the
NBA season, you had Oklahoma City in Cleveland crushing it
(24:55):
and then Jimmy Butler goes to San Francisco. Luke who
goes to Los Angeles. This is not the NFL. Baseball
and basketball need the right players in the right markets
and the right close series to get numbers. The league
is fine. It's fine. By the way, the election was
(25:15):
the most polarizing of my life. October, November, and half
of December, people were watching more politics. You know. Now
now they were really watching Fox News. They weren't watching
the other one. But the point being is when we're distracted,
numbers go down. Sometimes we are all right. So a
(25:36):
guy that I trust, Dad used to coach in the NFL.
He works at NFL dot com radio star co host
on the bench in Houston. He is joining us. Lance
Serline is in studio and we do not get Lance
in studio much. It's great to see you.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
My man.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Good to be here.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Okay. So that's the way.
Speaker 6 (25:53):
I'm all over the Rockets and Warriors tonight.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
It's a great series. One can shoot one's athletics great,
that's right. So let's start with the quarterback class Macro.
How does it compare to last year's perception great quarterback class?
Speaker 5 (26:10):
I would say from a comparison, it's terrible.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
It's not even close to last year's.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
However, if you take a look at just the top end,
we're gonna go cam Ward.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
Cam Ward for me, he would fit in.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
I have the same grade on him that I had
on Bow Nicks. So it's the same grade. But bo
Nicks went to the perfect fit, right, Sean Payton was
the absolute perfect fit. When you look at Shador Sanders,
he would not have been in that first round mix.
I think he is in the first round mix this year.
Obviously Chador is going to go in the first this year.
He would have gone maybe in the second round last year,
maybe even in the third round because teams don't like,
(26:47):
they don't like drafting players in the second round. There's
only been six quarterbacks drafted in the second round over
the last ten years. Wow, thirty five first rounders and
fourteen third rounders. So it's like that's a line of demarcation.
You're either a starter or you're a backup. And you know,
I think with cam Ward he would have been probably
the seventh quarterback off the board based on how it
(27:09):
it tracked. But I think he deserved to be in
that conversation last year. That's the only quarterback I would
have had in that conversation. Would not have had Dart,
would not have had Shad or Standers in that conversation
last year.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So the kid I talked about this yesterday, the kid
that is being overshadowed in this draft is Traveon Henderson
for Ohio State. So because Jenti's such a unique five
eight Boise State guy, all the attention and then Hampton
is great, kind of a Joe Mixon but more burst
level player. So nobody's paying attention to Travian Henderson. And
(27:42):
he was a jump he was a pop off the
TV player for me that when he touched the ball
and got a little space. I don't know what his
forty time is, but how do you view him in
the class?
Speaker 5 (27:53):
To me, he is a bigger He's a bigger difference maker.
And I've got a higher grade on him than Omaron Hampton.
That gent I think is special. He's my top player
in the entire draft. I have the highest grade on him.
He's not going to go first. But the last time
I did that was Sakwon Barkley in that amazing eighteen draft.
I had Barkley there and Quenton Nelson second. Rokwan was
(28:13):
in that draft. It was a great draft. But with
Trayvon Henderson, I'm with you. If you didn't learn anything
from Jamier Gibbs and what the Detroit Lions did, then
you're just not paying enough attention to football having a
player like Trayvon Henderson. He took the momentum had left
was gone from Ohio State against Texas. He takes that
swing pass, that little screen and takes at the distance
(28:35):
for a touchdown before the half.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
He has that ability.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
If you look at him versus Quinneawn Judkins, the same
exact offensive line, he averaged like one point eight yards
more per carry than Judkins, and that just gets to
his burst, his explosiveness, and the game is based on
explosive plays and the ability to create touchdowns from anywhere
on the field, and Henderson and Genti are the two
guys that have that.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Okay, we hear the Giants because I think that the
draft starts with a Giant. Yeah, right, so we know
it's Cammore Travis Hunter. Don't don't have any problem with
those picks. We hear they're split in the building on
shoudor Sanders. How would you react to that.
Speaker 5 (29:14):
I've heard that it's not a split. I've heard they're
in alignment, that it's not Sudoor Sanders. So that's what
I've heard, and so I don't think Shudar Sanders is
in play at three at all.
Speaker 6 (29:25):
I think they like for you to believe it.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
But one of the things that's happening is it seems
like there's a lot of teams that want you to
believe that they're in on shoud Or Sanders because they
think they're going to elicit a phone call and a
trade up. I don't think it's going to happen. I
think he goes twenty one of the Pittsburgh Steelers, but
I do see the Giants potentially. I've heard day Ball
likes Jackson Dart, and so if that's the case, going
(29:47):
from the early second round into the first round for
Jackson Dart somewhere in the twenties, you know, the Vikings
don't have a lot of draft picks. The Vikings could
be a spot that you trade into for Jackson Dart.
That's a that's been a targeted spot for me. The
twenty fourth pick. I put shad Or Sanders at twenty
four with in one of my mock drafts, with Cleveland
(30:07):
trading up instead. I think it could be the Giants
moving up to Minnesota's picking the twenty fourth pick. They
need a safety, they could maybe get one in an
early second so I think Jackson Dark could make it
into the first but it has to be a trade up,
and I don't think the Saints will take him at
number nine.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Okay, so I'm not a scout. I play one on
TV kind of. So I said yesterday the one player
I love unequivocally because I watched him play fifteen times
and he just rolled people was Mason Graham. Now I
know everybody. Now my gms are like, yes, he's good,
He's not as good as you think. And my take is, well,
in this draft, you know, Michigan games were on TV,
Harbaugh Michigan, so you got a lot of him. And
(30:43):
I don't know what his ceiling is, but I watched
him grab and throw Mannheim from USC who will get
drafted Ohio State guys physically dominate people. How does scouts
look at him?
Speaker 5 (30:57):
Well, they told you, and I'm kind of the same way.
I think he is a safe player with a high floor.
I think the ceiling is pretty limited. He's not a
long limb player. He's not somebody that can leverage his
way around around NFL offensive line. And I think his
strength and his leverage will be mitigated a little bit
by NFL strength. You know, there's some NFL people who
(31:17):
think Kenneth Grant has the higher upside his team or
that now for me, Grant is like second round tape.
He's gonna get drafted in the first round. Mason Graham
is safe. Walter Nolan from All Miss is the best
defensive tackle on this draft. Walter Nolan is explosive on
all three downs. He's disruptive in the backfield on first
and second. If you want to try to throw, no
one is better getting into the pocket from these early
(31:39):
round defensive tackles than Walter Nolan from All Miss. The
knock on him is that he's high maintenance, and so
you know, we've been dropping him back in mock drafts,
dropping him back. Now, talk to a couple of executives
who said, hey, he's too talented. You better start pushing
him forward because all those problems that pop up that
you're worried about early in the process, once it gets
(32:01):
time to really make the pick and you got to
put your job on the line, you start drafting the
best talent.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
So I said this, I don't think we'll have a
ton of movement in at the top of the draft.
But what's fascinating to me about this draft the NFL
has been taken over by offensive coaches. If you look
at like the twentieth pick on, it's a lot of
smart offensive guys, right There's a lot of mcveigh's and
Andy Reid's and Sean Payton's in that space, no doubt.
And I could see him moving up for guys. So
(32:28):
if I said to you there's a guy that is
a second round grade, maybe, but you think one of
these offensive coaches is going to go that guy's a starter.
Who's gonna end up in the first that the mock
drafts all have in the second m.
Speaker 6 (32:43):
That's a really good question. You know. Mason Taylor is
one guy that I think could surprise people. Buka's going
in the first.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Okay, so he is for sure.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
See I can't say Agbuka because he's in.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I'm locking you, all right. So yesterday I said, if
he is the first pick on the second day, there
will be major sitters because I think he's a can't miss.
Speaker 6 (33:07):
I think he is.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
We talked about the safety of Mason Graham. You're finding
out that what NFL teams like right now is a
lot of check marks. And so when it comes to
competitive spirit, football character, the ability to run good routes.
He's got a pedigree, he's got a winning you know,
he's played with other championship caliber players at Buka just
doesn't What do.
Speaker 6 (33:29):
You not like about him?
Speaker 5 (33:30):
I think his speed is average and maybe he's a
slot only player. Yeah, and that's fine, but there's a
lot of teams that need a slot wide. Ofcourse, there's
a lot, especially one who can be a high volume
possession guy. But guys who love you know my Houston Texans,
I cover the Texans in Houston, Tamiko Ryan, Jamiko Ryans.
Right now, the head coach wants a quote unquote swarm
(33:51):
mentality's and it's an an acronym that has to do it. Basically,
you're a guy who's high football character and your work
ethic and everything is you know, on point. He's one
of those type of guys. And so when you have
that late in the first round, you want to start
hitting those singles and doubles and a mecca ag Buka
is going to be probably a double and that's why
you draft him in the first round. So I couldn't
(34:13):
give you your EG Buka because I've already got him
in the first round.
Speaker 6 (34:16):
But LSU's Mason Taylor.
Speaker 5 (34:18):
Jason Taylor's his son, and then of course Zach Thomas's nephew.
Guy's got NFL bloodlines. He has a competitive, competitive tea.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
I watched his games. Yeah, productive baller.
Speaker 5 (34:31):
Baller baller, and I think and I love Colston Lovelin,
and I love ty Warren, but Tyler Warren, but I
think that Mason Taylor is a small step below those guys.
And to me, I wouldn't have any problem taking him
in the back half of the first round.
Speaker 6 (34:46):
If you're looking for.
Speaker 5 (34:49):
Kansas City, would be a great selection for Mason Taylor.
A possession wide receiver with the ability to make plays
after the catch, in a great bloodline, and you know, Frankly,
I just think a really high outside.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
So I said this yesterday. This is my Jackson Dart thing.
And I don't want to pick on the kid because
he's look, he's an NFL talent, but there is I've
seen this before. I saw it with Paxton Lynch and EJ.
Manuel a little bit with Mitch Trubisky. The guys get
better when they stop playing. So the season ends, I
see them and I'm like, yeah, that's a second third
round quarterback, and all of a sudden, it's like it's amazing.
(35:24):
They get so much better not playing. And some of
it is don't go to the grocery store when you're hungry.
Some of it is, you know, so the giants are hungry.
So why and I have no problem if I'm wrong
on this? Why is he a first round quarterback?
Speaker 6 (35:39):
Well, I've got a third round grade on him. WHOA, yeah,
But I mean.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
A grade is not where I project him. I project
him first. Second is where I project him. My grade
would be third round. I project him as a low
end starter to really good backup.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
And okay, so you see him as I THEE.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 5 (35:55):
I watched your segment yesterday. I thought you were dead
on on all that. Now I will address what you
say about rising in the process. First, I think what
happens is we have a national narrative and a perception
based on you know, people to who talk college football,
maybe some early draft riders and things like that, and
so we have an idea of this is where a
player is. But then as NFL evaluators get involved and
(36:19):
as coaches start getting involved.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Now that's interest. Now tell the audience is totally different.
So the first people to look at this are scouts.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
So it's first as regional scouts, then area of scouts.
Now you're director of scouting, and then you know your
general manager is already busy. He's not a lot of
gms aren't even worried about players in the fall. They're
trying to worry about their NFL team. And then once
the season's over, the GM start getting involved.
Speaker 6 (36:43):
Then you bring the coaches involved.
Speaker 5 (36:44):
Coaches have to look at their own free agents, then
other free agents, and then they're getting to senior ball
and combine and they don't even know most of these
players by combine.
Speaker 6 (36:52):
To be honest with you, they have.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
My dad told me I only watch a few snaps
on all these guys. I've got to really start learning
them at the combine. What happens as coaches then become involved.
So a team may have an a front office may
have an idea, but now coaches are talking to quarterbacks.
What's his football knowledge, how does he read defenses? What's
his what's his demeanor like when he walks in the room.
(37:14):
Do we feel him, does he have a does he
have some juice in the room? And that can change
perception quite a bit. You know, inside a building there
can be battles between the front office season here, but
the coaching staff who's got to coach him see him
completely different. So that could be one of the reasons
as well. But to your point on Jackson Dart, I
listen to what you said.
Speaker 6 (37:34):
I'm with you. I can't help.
Speaker 5 (37:36):
But remember how I took the bite out of the
Matt Corral apple. I like Matt Corral a lot. I
just think that old Miss offense is really favorable to quarterbacks.
Now it doesn't mean Jackson Dark can't play. He can play,
but he's got an average arm. He's accurate, I think
he has. He really has to put something into it.
I stood on the field next to him. I wanted
to see and feel all those quarterbacks throw at the
(37:57):
combine and he's got to really, you know, get a
little into it to drive the ball. But he is accurate,
and a lot of coaches like his demeanor. I just
think there's a lot of open one on one throws
down the field, and then there's a lot of stick routes,
just quick hitches to Trey Harris on tape as well,
so it's it's harder to get that first round feel
for Jackson dark front me.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I think over the next twenty years, Lance Zerline joining
us for our radio audience covering the NFL draft of
the last twenty four years. I think over the next
twenty years, you're gonna see multiple Travis Hunters, athletes like
Shoheyo Tani. They're just getting bigger, playing both ways. I mean, yeah,
I think it's I think, like Shoe Hay was, we
would have laughed ten years ago if you said there's
(38:38):
gonna be a guy that's an ace and hits leadoff,
that would have been ridiculous. Right. It's like, and now
you say, if you just said ten years ago, it's
gonna be a guy's gonna be a starting corner and receiver.
I mean, we had Dion, but it was more return
game and corner. And so I look, I look at
him and I think, when I watched Travis Hunter, there
are very few people, even athletes on Earth, that are
(39:02):
have an energy they never tire. It's Michael Jordan had
it right. I'll go if eighteen holes in the Sun
and then I'll play Larry Bird and the Celtics tonight
draw forty eight.
Speaker 6 (39:11):
Steph has that too. By the way right.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
They just to Cardi or whatever. I look at him
and I think, yeah, he can play both. He can
play eighty snaps. But I keep going back to this.
What is a defensive coordinator on a Tuesday when he's installing.
Travis is going to be in the offensive meetings your
dad coached in this league. It's not the talent. A
lot of these old decordinators, they want you in the room.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
Got to be in a room, so you hit it
right there. This is why he can't play full time
both both ways. There's a physical component. He's played twenty
six hundred snaps over the last two years. Twenty six
hundred snaps. That is an entire career for any other
college player. He's done that just in the last two years.
So the wear in tarryor loan when you get into
the NFL. I talked to a defensive coordinator who told
(39:56):
me he needs to be a he needs to be
a wide receiver.
Speaker 6 (40:00):
He doesn't have to run support.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
Then he can come over to our side and play
corner when it's third down and he doesn't have to tackle.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
You know.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
That's that's how we would use I talk to another
team that said, no, he's a he's a lockdown corner
with incredible ball skills and instincts. And then we'll run
on the other side of the field and we'll give
him eight to nine snaps a game, either as a
decoy or as a goal line you know.
Speaker 6 (40:20):
A red zone option. So there's gonna be different ways
of looking at it.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
But the reason you can't do both is your meetings
are in separate rooms at separate times. You've got wide
receiver meetings and you've got a dB meeting. How can
you get the reps you need for both positions? Wide
receiver is one of the toughest positions to learn as
a rookie. You got to learn the playbook and you
got to tighten up your technique. Like even Travis Hunter's
got a lot of technique stuff to work on at
(40:44):
wide receivers. So I think just the time spent the
reps you need, and the reps in the in the
in the meeting room, the mental reps.
Speaker 6 (40:53):
You can't get that at both positions.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
That's something you can do maybe later on, or you
can do it part time.
Speaker 6 (41:00):
You can't do it full time both ways.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
I love the kid, super competitive, unending energy.
Speaker 6 (41:05):
As you mentioned.
Speaker 5 (41:05):
Yeah, and he's my top wide receiver in the draft,
and he's my top cornerback in the draft.
Speaker 6 (41:09):
So anyway you want to play him, I'm good with him.
Speaker 5 (41:11):
I'm good with elite ball skills like I've never seen
from a top cornerback.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah, no, elite jumps off the TV. Yes, eighty plays
plays as hard on the eightieth play love him? Okay,
finally here, so I gotta throw out this is just
my meatball topic. I like Kyle McCord. He's a pocket guy.
There's limitations I think he makes. I think he lets
it rip. I think he's a confident kid. He's played
at a powerhouse that he didn't have to carry, and
(41:37):
at Syracuse where he did. I thought he was highly productive.
I think eighteen yards in totally trust him. Not a
huge arm. But I watch him and I think to myself,
if that guy landed with a McVeigh and sat for
two years, could he come out of that draft? And
you're like, yeah, he had a twelve year career.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
You know, he is one of those guys. And it's
because of what you said. He has that mentality. Now
it's gonna work both ways. And you can say the
same thing for cam Ward right, He'll make mistakes, gonna
make mistakes, but I'm willing. As they say, you'd rather
be able to say WHOA than go You'd rather have
someone you know. One of the problems right now for
Quinn yours is you got to push it down the
field a little bit. He's everything has come back to checkdowns.
(42:22):
Colin McCord, he's gonna let it rip.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
He's got a little bit about Philip Rivers.
Speaker 6 (42:26):
He does that.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
That was he's more athletic, but he's not that.
Speaker 5 (42:30):
Athletic, No, but a better better arm than Philip Rivers.
And Philip such an outlier. He's such a one on one.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Go for it guy, but he will and I like that.
Speaker 6 (42:38):
I liked it. He takes chances.
Speaker 5 (42:39):
Now what you have to do is try to mitigate
the mistakes a little bit. But he is one of
those guys in like the fourth round that I think
could be really really intriguing. I want to find guys
with plus traits, and I think that aggressiveness is a
plus trait for Colin McCord. So that's not a bad
that's not a bad name in the fourth round. But honestly,
once you get into the middle rounds, Like, I don't
think there's really many secret prospects and Jalen Milroe in
(43:03):
the first you watch a lot of college football. I
don't know where people I can't find on tape that
he's anywhere near a first rounder, not as a quarter.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
He's way too mechanical to be a great pro right,
he is so ridiculously athletic. Yes, he could be a
great piece to a team. To me, if Kaylan de
Boer has had such success Caylan was at wits end
last year. That's a guy that Michael Pennix had surgeries,
(43:30):
it didn't matter so im if Kaylin de Bororr is
struggling with him, and I heard inside the building they
love the kid, oh yeah. So But I think what's
happened is is people are going, well, Lamar Jackson, Lamar
throws the ball from the pocket now really well, really well, really.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
Well, made a lot of improvements. Jalen Hurts compared to
Jalen Hurts, that's not fair. I think Jalen Milroe is
an elite athlete like we've never seen. I think teams
are talking about him because they want to get an
explosive player in the building, figure out where we're playing
him or how we're playing the later I just think
to expect him to operate from the pocket after watching
what I saw on tape the last two years, because
(44:08):
I watched every throw of the last two years.
Speaker 6 (44:10):
Just the decision making right now is not good enough.
The accuracy is not good enough.
Speaker 5 (44:14):
But I get having an explosive player and an elite
athlete in the building, and we'll figure out what we're
going to do and how we're going to you know,
make the offense go with him. I totally understand that
in the first round. I just I couldn't get there
personally in the first round. That's one of those things.
And Tyler Shuck another guy that's a late comer that
we talked about before. A lot of physical traits that
(44:35):
you love. Maybe second best to cam Ward, maybe right
up there with cam Ward.
Speaker 6 (44:39):
Been a seven year player.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
In three of those years he's been you know, season
ending injury. So it's hard to put your your stamp
on that in the first round.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
All right, Land Zerline call, host of the Bench ninety
seven point five in Houston Rockets Warriors tonight. That is
a great series. One team can't shoot, but has all
the athletes. The other team's old and can, so that'll
be Game two tonight. It's always a pleasure to have
you love it
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
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or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Oh here we go. It is a Wednesday eve of
the NFL Draft. We got all sorts of stuff. In fact,
something may break during the show wherever you may be
and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us
part of your day. Very very interesting night tonight, the
(00:47):
Warriors try to make a two to zero on Houston.
You know Jay Mchatterday, We talked during the show the
line Vegas was telling you who was gonna win the
game last night, not because the Lakers were favored, but
it was a five and a half points spled, which
considering they got thumped in Game one, kind of told
you what the odds Bakers thought is that they were
gonna play with much more energy. So we kept saying,
(01:09):
you know, Lakers are the side They're gonna win. They're
gonna win comfortably. It actually was closer at the end
that it needed to be, because the Lakers really thumped them.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Well, they took their foot off the gas and the
fourth but Lakers for sure, easy, easy winner.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
All right. So the two biggest differences from Game one.
Number one, Lakers were immediately physical and made Minnesota work
for everything. And number two is the tea Wolves couldn't
hit their threes and they shoot a lot of them,
and they did all year. But when Ant, who's a
great three point shooter, is two for eight, they're in trouble.
And they were. And I thought last night is what
(01:41):
I actually thought the series was gonna look like, which
is a limited offensive team with Ant being the best player,
and you're kind of crossing your fingers night to night
if Julius Randall can deliver. He was good last night.
But what's remarkable to me that at forty years old,
with other stars in the game like Luca and Anne,
Lebron is still the tone setter in that game last night, activity, energy, defense,
(02:06):
setting the tempo. It was Lebron and you could feel
his presence every time he was on the floor. And
it's interesting if you go to Lebron's career following a loss,
he's the very best Lebron. In fact, Lebron's always been
great in the second game of a playoff series. He
tends to feel out the first game and then attack
(02:27):
in the second game, sort of how all of us
are with the second cup of coffee at work. You know,
that first cup of coffee, you're trying to get organized,
where not any of us are not really capable of
completing a grown up task until we're into the second
cup of coffee. And that's how Lebron does it. He
eats like a boxer that feels out the first round,
and then he attacks in round two. And that's what
(02:48):
Lebron did. And that's why Lebron's comp is not Michael Jordan,
it's Brady. For Brady at forty five years old to
league the NFL and pass attempts and throw for forty
seven hundred yards lead the league in completions. That's Lebron
who in year twenty two, with other stars on the
floor in a crucial game for the Lakers, Lebron's the
(03:09):
tone center. And remember Lebron tried to pass the baton
to a D four years ago. He tried to say, hey, dude,
I'm not into points. Lead us in scoring. And although
AD finally got in shape and Ad was very consistent defensively,
you never knew what you were getting from Ad offensively.
(03:31):
So so often Lebron would wait when he was a
team at a AD, he would play a very soft
first quarter, want Ad to take the baton with scoring,
and AD wouldn't, and then Lebron would have to take
over and pray Austin Reeves could help him be the two.
This is where Lebron and Luca are great, is that
Lebron's not into the points thing. He doesn't care. He
(03:53):
wants energy in the fourth quarter. He conserves it when
he can, Like last night, he couldn't. He had to
play with energy right out of the gate, but he
was letting Luca take over the scoring. Lebron's not one
of these guys that needs the buckets. He wants to win.
That's what his legacy is. So last night Luca thirty
one points, Lebron twenty one. He is totally comfortable with that.
(04:16):
That's why Ad and Lebron. There's a lot of talk now,
it could be internet rumors that Lebron knew the trade
was coming. I don't know if he did, but I
think Lebron was okay with the trade because Lebron is
always understood who plays off me well? Austin Reeves, he
loves him, Why he can score and shoot. He didn't
(04:37):
like Kyle Kuzma. Why has Milwaukee found out he still
can't shoot? Lebron couldn't depend on Kuzma. Lebron feels like, oh,
I can depend on Austin Reeves in most series to
be good, although he's been a little clunky so far.
So this to me is what really is amazing. This
is the fifty fifth playoff series for Lebron and he
(05:00):
mains the tone setter with Aunt and Luca also on
the floor. And here was Lebron in his Game two performance.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
We looked at what we didn't do so well, which
was a lot of things in Game one. We take
that the heart. We hold each other accountable, We make
the adjustments, and we had a better out on tonight,
and now we have we need to be even better
on Friday, you know, you know, going into Minnesota. So
that's what the playoffs is all about.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
It.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
But you've got to be able to say even kill
no matter what's going on.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I do like the Lakers in this series. I think
it probably goes six, not five. But this is what
I thought it would look like. And it's a really
big distinction between A d and Luca Lebron. After they
won the championship, the COVID Championship, remember the next year,
Ad came out of shape to camp and I was
(05:51):
told to tick Lebron off. It was like, okay, dude,
it's your team. I'm gonna be ready for the fourth
and he couldn't because you never knew what you were
getting with Ad. And then he got healthy, took his
body seriously, but in the end, Lebron still couldn't trust him. Offensively,
Lebron loves Luca. Luca can have eighteen point quarters, twenty
three point halves, and it lets Lebron play off the ball,
(06:14):
conserve some energy. This Lebron is always known who we
would play well with and who he wouldn't. He knows
the game and he knew there's two guys, three guys
in the league. I'd be great with Steph and he
flirted for a couple of years. Steph said, no, thanks, yo, Kitch,
that's never gonna happen. Denver's not letting him go. And Luca.
(06:38):
I believe Lebron is always known, Steph, Yokitch and Luca
are the three stars in this league he would trust
and he'd be great with. And now he's got one. Okay,
so this came out. Oh boy, I can hear all
the young media fanboys freaking out over this. Tom Pelisero,
NFL Network apparently wrote an article on Sudor sanders settle
(07:00):
of good stuff, but there were multiple people who did
not like Shadure Sanders' attitude. Now this is a story
now because Shadoor Sanders. Over the last week to two weeks,
we've heard about him dropping in the draft. One of
the quotes in the story was the worst formal interview
I've ever seen in my life. Horrible body language, blames teammates.
(07:23):
Biggest thing is he says not that good. An assistant
NFL coach told Pallisero, I didn't it didn't go great
in our interview. He wants to dictate everything what he's
gonna do, and he kind of makes you feel small.
So listen, interviews do matter a little bit for quarterbacks.
Baker Mayfield, I was told was so good in his interviews.
He had so much football knowledge. He had such great energy,
(07:45):
great eye contact, sent to humor. People were blown away
with Baker Mayfield in the interview. He was good on
the whiteboard, funny, confident, without arrogant. So my takeaway on
this is, yeah, this is part of being in a quarterback.
Aaron Rodgers, by the way, read Ian O'Connor's book. Why
did he drop in the draft? Aaron came across as
(08:08):
too cocky. It matters. I can just already see the
fence being built to protection you or Sanders, who I like.
But the scouts they're not just making stuff up. Coaches
don't make stuff up. Remember we were warned about Kyler
Murray's attitude. Yeah, they were right, Cam Newton's ego, Johnny
(08:29):
Manziel's focus, if Josh Rosen could stay healthy, Jay Cutler's arrogance, Yeah,
they were right on olvos. And now people say what
about c J. Stroud? Oh boy, people like c J. Stroud.
They said his comp was Jared Goff, super accurate, doesn't
(08:50):
get hurt, doesn't move a ton. That's not a bad comp.
Jared gofffend to a super Bowl? Okay, and the other
thing was, there's it's a new test out. It's called
an S two evaluation. It's just more information. It doesn't
mean it's fool proof. CJ. Stroud did not do well
on it. Bryce Young had an amazing through the roof score.
(09:12):
So obviously it doesn't just equal wins. But it's more information.
It's a cognitive test, and people think it's better than
wonder Lick. It's really good with quarterbacks. You still need
a left tackle and a good coach and a good
coordinator and a good owner and a good general manager.
But it's just more information. So this article has a
ton of nice things about shudeor Sanders. It says a
(09:33):
bunch of nice stuff, but there are a couple of
people that say it comes across as cocky. And I've
said this, and I said this about Kayleb Williams. Over
the next two to three years, you got to be
very careful. I believe in judging a kid's confidence as
an NFL scout because they're all getting paid now, they're
all millionaires coming into the game, and some of those
(09:54):
kids have had money. Some of those kids have not
had money. But last year class Caleb Williams Jayden Daniels
and especially Caleb Williams. He was the first quarterback ever
drafted that was richer than any of the scouts that
interviewed him. I mean that you had a better net
worth before he signed a contract with the Bears. And
(10:15):
so if the kids have money now they're being empowered
by NFL, there's gonna be a little bit of confidence.
And I think some of that confidence will come across
as arrogancet NFL people because these kids now they don't
come in wide eyed, they're driving new cars, they may
own a condo, their families more set. They're going to
come in and not grovel to you. And I think
(10:37):
a lot of NFL people are kind of used to
quarterbacks coming in, Yes, sir, Nosa, Hey, coaches, they got
more money than you do. So I do think this
is something over the next three or four years to
watch it play out. I when I hear worst interview ever,
that seems a little dramatic to me, But I would
say this to the media as well, take a deep breath.
(11:00):
This is just all information. Interviews matter. They were right
on Johnny Manziel. I mean, Cam Newton's a great podcaster.
Why because he's more personality. That's why in the NFL
never had back to back winning seasons. But he was memorable.
Like that's what people said going into the Cam Newton draft,
like he's a lot of personality, a little bit into Cam.
(11:21):
Everybody freaked out. And that's actually why Cam's kind of
a good podcaster. He's a performer. And that was what
they say. This stuff is mostly right, right. It was
right on Johnny Manziel And by the way, the people
that love Baker Mayfield, not everybody, but the people that
loved them, they're like, he can read a defense, Teammates
(11:42):
will love him. He's got a ton of confidence. They've
been right on Baker Mayfield. And the critics of him
myself were a little bit of ego, kind of amateur,
maybe not as good athletically as people think. And that
was right too. So don't overreact to this. I can
see young people now coming into the sport with a
little lego, a little confidence. They've been paid, they made money.
(12:04):
It's not the end of the world. I think Chadur's
biggest issue is one that is well documented arm mobility, size.
His traits are okay, that's the issue. The interview stuff.
This feels a little hot for me, but I can
see everybody freaking out. This is unfair. No, it's not.
(12:26):
It's totally fair. This is the game. This is what
happens when you're a quarterback. Andrew Luck came out literally
a perfect prospect, and people questioned his armstring. It's like
you watched him. Do you ever think you know Andrew
Luck's a noodlelarm? Other than that, he's fantastic, Like everybody
gets picked apart. Take a deep breath, all right, But
(12:48):
it is interesting Jmac that a week ago to two
weeks ago, because these interviews were done a long time ago.
Now they're getting out because people are doing a lot
of articles and so you know, the athletics got six
articles a day and now stuff's coming out. I do things.
What is interesting though, that even the people who like
(13:09):
Shadure Sanders, like there's the giants. People in the building
like him, the buildings also split. See what you're getting
with Shadour Sanders is because let's take cam Ward out.
He's going to the Titans every quarterback after that, Jackson Dart.
People are very mixed. Chadur mixed, Jalen Milroll mixed. What
we have outside of cam Ward is B the B
(13:33):
minus quarterback prospects, and when you have that, you get
divided opinions.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah, your chure point is great. I think it's worth
a larger discussion. So, Colin, you and I have run businesses. Kay,
You've interviewed a lot of people. Yeah, some kid comes
in thinking he's a hot shot. Hey, I worry what's
up man acting all cool and too cool for school.
I've made my money, I've got my social media following.
If he acts like that, are you more likely to
hire him? Or be like, Oh, if this is what
(13:59):
he's like in the interview, what's this guy gonna be
like to deal with? I know you want to give
pause that they're some of these coaches are older, and
then what yes, sir? No, sir? I so door's walking
in there like his stuff don't stink. I don't know
that I want that in my building as a young
leader of a football I don't.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I remember when my daughter was interviewing for jobs and
I talked to her about this. I said, I'm just
going to tell you what Dad thinks. You can take
this information for whatever you want. But I own a
business and I have a staff. I have a radio
TV staff, I've got a volume staff. I said, don't
ask about vacation, right, don't ask. When I hear that,
(14:37):
I'm like, oh, I said, I don't care if you
think that's what all the young hipsters ask about his
work life balance. Nobody wants to hear about work life balance.
That's the only advice I'm gonna give you. You're gonna work
and work hard. When do I start? I said, I'm
just telling you for dad in my generation and my
generation owns a lot of those businesses were turned off
(14:59):
by that because we worked our butt off. We're not
gonna work you to the ball. We're not asking for
seventy hours a week. But if you ask about vacation
and that's a real priority, you know what, go'll be
an influencer on IG.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
By the way, Patrick Mahomes' his dad was a professional
baseball player. You think he walked into interviews with NFL
teams acting like he was the man. I'm not bashing
shodoor here. I personally would take him at two or three.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
So it almost feels like there's an old coach somewhere
around the league who sat in on an interview and
heard and saw this and was like, yes, I want
this guy. If he's acting like this in an interview,
what's he going to be like in the locker room?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Well, and again it's I think both are true. I
think young quarterbacks now and young college football players come
in with money so they're not groveling. I think that's true.
That's not a bad thing, but it's true. I also
think it depends on the coach. I think as Sean
McVay would handle it better. But there are a lot
of coaches in this sport, old defensive coaches. They want
(15:56):
a you know, a kind of Neil to me.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Quite kiss the ring, right, But there's social respect. I mean, now,
Brian Dable, he can't roll into the meeting and be like,
here's all my super Bowl rings. He can't do that,
whereas a Belichick could back in the day, Mike Tomlin
could do that, here's my super Bowl ring son, how
are you?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, but I'm very curious about that. By the way,
you and I have both interviewed for jobs. I have
had good interviews. I think I interviewed pretty well. But
I had interviews before where I walk out and I'm like,
that was weird. Yeah, he was like, the interviewer is
aggressive or they're not. They're not really looking for what
I provide. So listen interviews. These interviews are not four
(16:37):
hours long. Sometimes they're ten minutes. Not all interviews go well.
I mean, I've done a million podcasts with people. Sometimes
a podcast is over and I'm like, that wasn't a
very good podcast. It just never got going.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Some of the advice you would give your kid, hey,
play it safe, you know, don't say anything risky, and
feel out the interview the way Mike Tyson would feel
out of Fight or Lebron feels out a series he's in.
Speaker 6 (16:59):
Don't come in all.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
And I just wonder if Shador has turned off enough
that he plummets here in the I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I still contend. I still contend Cam Newton turns some
people off, but Cam was so damn talented. Who cares?
But Chadors not in his class? Well, that's what I'm saying.
Caleb Williams turns some people off. Kalum's too talented. The
biggest issue with Shadeur is arm okay, mobility, average size. Eh,
(17:26):
that's the issue is that if if people like I
keep hearing about you know this kid that went transferred
to UCLA, Niko. Everybody's oh, bad, bad, bad kid. If
he lights it up at Ucla or had he lit
it up at Tennessee, he's going in the first round,
got them to the playoff? Yes, yeah, come on in
(17:46):
the end, the greater the talent.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Just to be clear, I would take Shadoor at three
if I were the g I know people don't love him.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I would.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I haven't interviewed him or anything, but I would look
hard at Like if you don't get a quarterback and
you're the Giants, hello five and twelve, Like, that's where
you're heading.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You and I are both on we like him more
than the world does. So and these stories, it's just
part of the game.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
All right, welcome back. So you know, for a couple
of years, thank god, I don't read social media, but
for a couple of years, here's all I've heard. Every
time we talk about the Milwaukee Bucks. I've come on
this show and said, yeah, they're too old. It's not
gonna work time to blow it up. They don't have
any draft picks. They gave up too many for Dame.
It's not gonna work. And Milwaukee fantasy like you guys
(18:36):
cherry pick, you don't watch the games, you don't know. No,
Actually we've been right. They're gonna lose to the Pacers.
I predicted a week ago. I said Pacers got better players.
Pacers have an undervalued roster. Pacers have three really good
players in their prime. Milwaukee Jannis is a twenty five
million dollar chandelier in a rundown house and so, and
(18:57):
he's putting up huge numbers in this series. He's a monster.
He didn't have good enough players around him. He's had
one and I'm not blaming him. He's great. He's probably
slightly out of his prime, or maybe he's in his prime,
but he's great. But it doesn't matter. They don't have
draft picks. The Kyle Kuzma move of the deadline was
a nothing burger. Dame is a weakness defensively and passed
(19:19):
his prime. So Milwaukee's had one great playoff run and
they won a title. Every other year has been a
disappointment since then. And they're gonna get they're gonna get
knocked out of the series. They'll win Game three, but
they're gonna get knocked out of this series. In fact,
in Giannis's last seven playoff games, he's had huge numbers.
The Bucks are zero for seven. So again, the national
(19:41):
media skepticism was right on point. He's doing thirty five
and fifteen in this series and they're down zero two
and they're clearly the inferior team. And we were saying
on this show three years ago, you don't have to
sit and watch every NBA game. They're just not athletic enough,
they're not young enough. Boston still got some youth. Cleveland
has youth, you can Oklahoma City's got youth. There's a
(20:03):
lot the West has tons of young athletic teams. Milwaukee's
too old. So listen, this this town's This city lost
Louel Cinder Farvan, Aaron Rodgers and somehow survived. To me,
you could guarantee your viability as a franchise by trading
Giannis in the offseason and getting five first round picks
(20:24):
and four players. I mean, look what Rudy Gobert gott
You can get a ton and it'll guarantee for the
next ten years, you're a viable franchise. You are not
winning a trophy with Giannis. You don't have the draft capital.
Dame's getting older by the second. Kyle Kuzma's not it.
You're not winning a trophy. So what are your standards?
(20:45):
I mean, Green Bay the Packers may have their faults,
but they're trying to win super Bowls. They're making moves
to win Super Bowls. Milwaukee, you want to be a
playoff team because Boston and Cleveland and are significantly better. Like,
it's not close athletically, defensively, and so it's one of
(21:06):
these things when people say you can't trade Luca. You
could trade Luca. You can't do it for one first
round pick. If you're a trade Luca to the Lakers
for a D Austin Reeves and three first round picks. Okay,
you got to sleep on that. Jannis, he may not
be able to get a free throw. I'd want four
first round picks. I'd want an all star level player
(21:29):
and then two or three other players because I wouldn't
have to pay him anymore. Right, I could get some
expiring contracts, but this thing's not working. Yeah, I know
the media Cherry picks. No. Sometimes the national guys because
they're not as emotionally embedded in the franchise, can see
the truth. You are watching the truth in this series.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Easter not a em Pacific Draft coverage YEP.
With the first pick the biggest states that know about
every player and every team.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
You've got it right here.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
God listen as Fox NFL insider Jay Glazer, former New
York Jets general manager Joe Douglas, College Football Hall of
Famer and former number two overall pick, LaVar Eringtech and
Fox Sports lead college football reporter Jenny Tap delivered a
pick pick covering with the next nighty Night, Fox Draft
Night Live lives right here on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Here we go. It's our two first one flew by
Draft begins tomorrow Warriors Rockets. Tonight. Jay Mack is just
throwing throwing hypotheticals at me left and right now. He's
got his legs under him because yesterday he got into
town Monday, and yesterday was his first show back from Japan,
(22:49):
so he was a little groggy, but today very laser focal. Well,
you know, it's fun. We get spor on anything.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yesterday's talk about the top American basketball player that's.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Down there wild in the internet.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
We loved our discussion, and I hope the overrated one
doesn't go wow because we disagree as quick.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I will tell you this, Listen. I don't even know
why this is, but hockey guy, you can know it's
to hockey guys insecure in America. Anytime you talk about
the NBA, Hockey's better, nobody watches hockey. The ratings for
the playoffs last year, hockey ratings this year. ESPN signed
(23:28):
a bad contract. It's not viable. The NBA is fine.
It will aways be fine because it's a star driven
league which has a cultural impact in America. Okay, you
can name fifteen NBA players. You don't even have to
like the league. You can name four Warriors, right like
nobody's sportscasters in America can't name six hockey players. So
the ratings came out over the weekend for the playoffs.
(23:49):
It was the highest TV ratings in twenty five years. Well,
it was easter whatever, they were good games. The bottom
line is the NBA got off to a really slow
start because it was an election year. October November, even
the NFL was down. Okay, and also we had a
Yankee Dodger World Series, we had a college football Playoff.
It was a distracted nation. The NBA works, and they
(24:12):
just signed a seventy six billion dollar contract because it's
star driven. And folks, I've been in this business for
a long time. Here's what works. Every industry in a
distracted nation with stars. The UFC was more popular when
Connor McGregor and John Jones were in their prime. It
still makes a lot of money, but those guys drove
(24:34):
huge revenue. Baseball right now, it's got all its stars
in the right markets. Otani, Freeman, Betts in La Aaron
Judge and Soto in New York. It's got its stars
in the right place. Harper Philadelphia, Ocunya Atlanta. You don't
want your you know, like in the beginning of the
NBA season, you had Oklahoma City in Cleveland crushing it
(24:55):
and then Jimmy Butler goes to San Francisco. Luke who
goes to Los Angeles. This is not the NFL. Baseball
and basketball need the right players in the right markets
and the right close series to get numbers. The league
is fine. It's fine. By the way, the election was
(25:15):
the most polarizing of my life. October, November, and half
of December, people were watching more politics. You know. Now
now they were really watching Fox News. They weren't watching
the other one. But the point being is when we're distracted,
numbers go down. Sometimes we are all right. So a
(25:36):
guy that I trust, Dad used to coach in the NFL.
He works at NFL dot com radio star co host
on the bench in Houston. He is joining us. Lance
Serline is in studio and we do not get Lance
in studio much. It's great to see you.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
My man.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Good to be here.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Okay. So that's the way.
Speaker 6 (25:53):
I'm all over the Rockets and Warriors tonight.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
It's a great series. One can shoot one's athletics great,
that's right. So let's start with the quarterback class Macro.
How does it compare to last year's perception great quarterback class?
Speaker 5 (26:10):
I would say from a comparison, it's terrible.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
It's not even close to last year's.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
However, if you take a look at just the top end,
we're gonna go cam Ward.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
Cam Ward for me, he would fit in.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
I have the same grade on him that I had
on Bow Nicks. So it's the same grade. But bo
Nicks went to the perfect fit, right, Sean Payton was
the absolute perfect fit. When you look at Shador Sanders,
he would not have been in that first round mix.
I think he is in the first round mix this year.
Obviously Chador is going to go in the first this year.
He would have gone maybe in the second round last year,
maybe even in the third round because teams don't like,
(26:47):
they don't like drafting players in the second round. There's
only been six quarterbacks drafted in the second round over
the last ten years. Wow, thirty five first rounders and
fourteen third rounders. So it's like that's a line of demarcation.
You're either a starter or you're a backup. And you know,
I think with cam Ward he would have been probably
the seventh quarterback off the board based on how it
(27:09):
it tracked. But I think he deserved to be in
that conversation last year. That's the only quarterback I would
have had in that conversation. Would not have had Dart,
would not have had Shad or Standers in that conversation
last year.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So the kid I talked about this yesterday, the kid
that is being overshadowed in this draft is Traveon Henderson
for Ohio State. So because Jenti's such a unique five
eight Boise State guy, all the attention and then Hampton
is great, kind of a Joe Mixon but more burst
level player. So nobody's paying attention to Travian Henderson. And
(27:42):
he was a jump he was a pop off the
TV player for me that when he touched the ball
and got a little space. I don't know what his
forty time is, but how do you view him in
the class?
Speaker 5 (27:53):
To me, he is a bigger He's a bigger difference maker.
And I've got a higher grade on him than Omaron Hampton.
That gent I think is special. He's my top player
in the entire draft. I have the highest grade on him.
He's not going to go first. But the last time
I did that was Sakwon Barkley in that amazing eighteen draft.
I had Barkley there and Quenton Nelson second. Rokwan was
(28:13):
in that draft. It was a great draft. But with
Trayvon Henderson, I'm with you. If you didn't learn anything
from Jamier Gibbs and what the Detroit Lions did, then
you're just not paying enough attention to football having a
player like Trayvon Henderson. He took the momentum had left
was gone from Ohio State against Texas. He takes that
swing pass, that little screen and takes at the distance
(28:35):
for a touchdown before the half.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
He has that ability.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
If you look at him versus Quinneawn Judkins, the same
exact offensive line, he averaged like one point eight yards
more per carry than Judkins, and that just gets to
his burst, his explosiveness, and the game is based on
explosive plays and the ability to create touchdowns from anywhere
on the field, and Henderson and Genti are the two
guys that have that.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Okay, we hear the Giants because I think that the
draft starts with a Giant. Yeah, right, so we know
it's Cammore Travis Hunter. Don't don't have any problem with
those picks. We hear they're split in the building on
shoudor Sanders. How would you react to that.
Speaker 5 (29:14):
I've heard that it's not a split. I've heard they're
in alignment, that it's not Sudoor Sanders. So that's what
I've heard, and so I don't think Shudar Sanders is
in play at three at all.
Speaker 6 (29:25):
I think they like for you to believe it.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
But one of the things that's happening is it seems
like there's a lot of teams that want you to
believe that they're in on shoud Or Sanders because they
think they're going to elicit a phone call and a
trade up. I don't think it's going to happen. I
think he goes twenty one of the Pittsburgh Steelers, but
I do see the Giants potentially. I've heard day Ball
likes Jackson Dart, and so if that's the case, going
(29:47):
from the early second round into the first round for
Jackson Dart somewhere in the twenties, you know, the Vikings
don't have a lot of draft picks. The Vikings could
be a spot that you trade into for Jackson Dart.
That's a that's been a targeted spot for me. The
twenty fourth pick. I put shad Or Sanders at twenty
four with in one of my mock drafts, with Cleveland
(30:07):
trading up instead. I think it could be the Giants
moving up to Minnesota's picking the twenty fourth pick. They
need a safety, they could maybe get one in an
early second so I think Jackson Dark could make it
into the first but it has to be a trade up,
and I don't think the Saints will take him at
number nine.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Okay, so I'm not a scout. I play one on
TV kind of. So I said yesterday the one player
I love unequivocally because I watched him play fifteen times
and he just rolled people was Mason Graham. Now I
know everybody. Now my gms are like, yes, he's good,
He's not as good as you think. And my take is, well,
in this draft, you know, Michigan games were on TV,
Harbaugh Michigan, so you got a lot of him. And
(30:43):
I don't know what his ceiling is, but I watched
him grab and throw Mannheim from USC who will get
drafted Ohio State guys physically dominate people. How does scouts
look at him?
Speaker 5 (30:57):
Well, they told you, and I'm kind of the same way.
I think he is a safe player with a high floor.
I think the ceiling is pretty limited. He's not a
long limb player. He's not somebody that can leverage his
way around around NFL offensive line. And I think his
strength and his leverage will be mitigated a little bit
by NFL strength. You know, there's some NFL people who
(31:17):
think Kenneth Grant has the higher upside his team or
that now for me, Grant is like second round tape.
He's gonna get drafted in the first round. Mason Graham
is safe. Walter Nolan from All Miss is the best
defensive tackle on this draft. Walter Nolan is explosive on
all three downs. He's disruptive in the backfield on first
and second. If you want to try to throw, no
one is better getting into the pocket from these early
(31:39):
round defensive tackles than Walter Nolan from All Miss. The
knock on him is that he's high maintenance, and so
you know, we've been dropping him back in mock drafts,
dropping him back. Now, talk to a couple of executives
who said, hey, he's too talented. You better start pushing
him forward because all those problems that pop up that
you're worried about early in the process, once it gets
(32:01):
time to really make the pick and you got to
put your job on the line, you start drafting the
best talent.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
So I said this, I don't think we'll have a
ton of movement in at the top of the draft.
But what's fascinating to me about this draft the NFL
has been taken over by offensive coaches. If you look
at like the twentieth pick on, it's a lot of
smart offensive guys, right There's a lot of mcveigh's and
Andy Reid's and Sean Payton's in that space, no doubt.
And I could see him moving up for guys. So
(32:28):
if I said to you there's a guy that is
a second round grade, maybe, but you think one of
these offensive coaches is going to go that guy's a starter.
Who's gonna end up in the first that the mock
drafts all have in the second m.
Speaker 6 (32:43):
That's a really good question. You know. Mason Taylor is
one guy that I think could surprise people. Buka's going
in the first.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Okay, so he is for sure.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
See I can't say Agbuka because he's in.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I'm locking you, all right. So yesterday I said, if
he is the first pick on the second day, there
will be major sitters because I think he's a can't miss.
Speaker 6 (33:07):
I think he is.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
We talked about the safety of Mason Graham. You're finding
out that what NFL teams like right now is a
lot of check marks. And so when it comes to
competitive spirit, football character, the ability to run good routes.
He's got a pedigree, he's got a winning you know,
he's played with other championship caliber players at Buka just
doesn't What do.
Speaker 6 (33:29):
You not like about him?
Speaker 5 (33:30):
I think his speed is average and maybe he's a
slot only player. Yeah, and that's fine, but there's a
lot of teams that need a slot wide. Ofcourse, there's
a lot, especially one who can be a high volume
possession guy. But guys who love you know my Houston Texans,
I cover the Texans in Houston, Tamiko Ryan, Jamiko Ryans.
Right now, the head coach wants a quote unquote swarm
(33:51):
mentality's and it's an an acronym that has to do it. Basically,
you're a guy who's high football character and your work
ethic and everything is you know, on point. He's one
of those type of guys. And so when you have
that late in the first round, you want to start
hitting those singles and doubles and a mecca ag Buka
is going to be probably a double and that's why
you draft him in the first round. So I couldn't
(34:13):
give you your EG Buka because I've already got him
in the first round.
Speaker 6 (34:16):
But LSU's Mason Taylor.
Speaker 5 (34:18):
Jason Taylor's his son, and then of course Zach Thomas's nephew.
Guy's got NFL bloodlines. He has a competitive, competitive tea.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
I watched his games. Yeah, productive baller.
Speaker 5 (34:31):
Baller baller, and I think and I love Colston Lovelin,
and I love ty Warren, but Tyler Warren, but I
think that Mason Taylor is a small step below those guys.
And to me, I wouldn't have any problem taking him
in the back half of the first round.
Speaker 6 (34:46):
If you're looking for.
Speaker 5 (34:49):
Kansas City, would be a great selection for Mason Taylor.
A possession wide receiver with the ability to make plays
after the catch, in a great bloodline, and you know, Frankly,
I just think a really high outside.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
So I said this yesterday. This is my Jackson Dart thing.
And I don't want to pick on the kid because
he's look, he's an NFL talent, but there is I've
seen this before. I saw it with Paxton Lynch and EJ.
Manuel a little bit with Mitch Trubisky. The guys get
better when they stop playing. So the season ends, I
see them and I'm like, yeah, that's a second third
round quarterback, and all of a sudden, it's like it's amazing.
(35:24):
They get so much better not playing. And some of
it is don't go to the grocery store when you're hungry.
Some of it is, you know, so the giants are hungry.
So why and I have no problem if I'm wrong
on this? Why is he a first round quarterback?
Speaker 6 (35:39):
Well, I've got a third round grade on him. WHOA, yeah,
But I mean.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
A grade is not where I project him. I project
him first. Second is where I project him. My grade
would be third round. I project him as a low
end starter to really good backup.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
And okay, so you see him as I THEE.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 5 (35:55):
I watched your segment yesterday. I thought you were dead
on on all that. Now I will address what you
say about rising in the process. First, I think what
happens is we have a national narrative and a perception
based on you know, people to who talk college football,
maybe some early draft riders and things like that, and
so we have an idea of this is where a
player is. But then as NFL evaluators get involved and
(36:19):
as coaches start getting involved.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Now that's interest. Now tell the audience is totally different.
So the first people to look at this are scouts.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
So it's first as regional scouts, then area of scouts.
Now you're director of scouting, and then you know your
general manager is already busy. He's not a lot of
gms aren't even worried about players in the fall. They're
trying to worry about their NFL team. And then once
the season's over, the GM start getting involved.
Speaker 6 (36:43):
Then you bring the coaches involved.
Speaker 5 (36:44):
Coaches have to look at their own free agents, then
other free agents, and then they're getting to senior ball
and combine and they don't even know most of these
players by combine.
Speaker 6 (36:52):
To be honest with you, they have.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
My dad told me I only watch a few snaps
on all these guys. I've got to really start learning
them at the combine. What happens as coaches then become involved.
So a team may have an a front office may
have an idea, but now coaches are talking to quarterbacks.
What's his football knowledge, how does he read defenses? What's
his what's his demeanor like when he walks in the room.
(37:14):
Do we feel him, does he have a does he
have some juice in the room? And that can change
perception quite a bit. You know, inside a building there
can be battles between the front office season here, but
the coaching staff who's got to coach him see him
completely different. So that could be one of the reasons
as well. But to your point on Jackson Dart, I
listen to what you said.
Speaker 6 (37:34):
I'm with you. I can't help.
Speaker 5 (37:36):
But remember how I took the bite out of the
Matt Corral apple. I like Matt Corral a lot. I
just think that old Miss offense is really favorable to quarterbacks.
Now it doesn't mean Jackson Dark can't play. He can play,
but he's got an average arm. He's accurate, I think
he has. He really has to put something into it.
I stood on the field next to him. I wanted
to see and feel all those quarterbacks throw at the
(37:57):
combine and he's got to really, you know, get a
little into it to drive the ball. But he is accurate,
and a lot of coaches like his demeanor. I just
think there's a lot of open one on one throws
down the field, and then there's a lot of stick routes,
just quick hitches to Trey Harris on tape as well,
so it's it's harder to get that first round feel
for Jackson dark front me.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I think over the next twenty years, Lance Zerline joining
us for our radio audience covering the NFL draft of
the last twenty four years. I think over the next
twenty years, you're gonna see multiple Travis Hunters, athletes like
Shoheyo Tani. They're just getting bigger, playing both ways. I mean, yeah,
I think it's I think, like Shoe Hay was, we
would have laughed ten years ago if you said there's
(38:38):
gonna be a guy that's an ace and hits leadoff,
that would have been ridiculous. Right. It's like, and now
you say, if you just said ten years ago, it's
gonna be a guy's gonna be a starting corner and receiver.
I mean, we had Dion, but it was more return
game and corner. And so I look, I look at
him and I think, when I watched Travis Hunter, there
are very few people, even athletes on Earth, that are
(39:02):
have an energy they never tire. It's Michael Jordan had
it right. I'll go if eighteen holes in the Sun
and then I'll play Larry Bird and the Celtics tonight
draw forty eight.
Speaker 6 (39:11):
Steph has that too. By the way right.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
They just to Cardi or whatever. I look at him
and I think, yeah, he can play both. He can
play eighty snaps. But I keep going back to this.
What is a defensive coordinator on a Tuesday when he's installing.
Travis is going to be in the offensive meetings your
dad coached in this league. It's not the talent. A
lot of these old decordinators, they want you in the room.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
Got to be in a room, so you hit it
right there. This is why he can't play full time
both both ways. There's a physical component. He's played twenty
six hundred snaps over the last two years. Twenty six
hundred snaps. That is an entire career for any other
college player. He's done that just in the last two years.
So the wear in tarryor loan when you get into
the NFL. I talked to a defensive coordinator who told
(39:56):
me he needs to be a he needs to be
a wide receiver.
Speaker 6 (40:00):
He doesn't have to run support.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
Then he can come over to our side and play
corner when it's third down and he doesn't have to tackle.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
You know.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
That's that's how we would use I talk to another
team that said, no, he's a he's a lockdown corner
with incredible ball skills and instincts. And then we'll run
on the other side of the field and we'll give
him eight to nine snaps a game, either as a
decoy or as a goal line you know.
Speaker 6 (40:20):
A red zone option. So there's gonna be different ways
of looking at it.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
But the reason you can't do both is your meetings
are in separate rooms at separate times. You've got wide
receiver meetings and you've got a dB meeting. How can
you get the reps you need for both positions? Wide
receiver is one of the toughest positions to learn as
a rookie. You got to learn the playbook and you
got to tighten up your technique. Like even Travis Hunter's
got a lot of technique stuff to work on at
(40:44):
wide receivers. So I think just the time spent the
reps you need, and the reps in the in the
in the meeting room, the mental reps.
Speaker 6 (40:53):
You can't get that at both positions.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
That's something you can do maybe later on, or you
can do it part time.
Speaker 6 (41:00):
You can't do it full time both ways.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
I love the kid, super competitive, unending energy.
Speaker 6 (41:05):
As you mentioned.
Speaker 5 (41:05):
Yeah, and he's my top wide receiver in the draft,
and he's my top cornerback in the draft.
Speaker 6 (41:09):
So anyway you want to play him, I'm good with him.
Speaker 5 (41:11):
I'm good with elite ball skills like I've never seen
from a top cornerback.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah, no, elite jumps off the TV. Yes, eighty plays
plays as hard on the eightieth play love him? Okay,
finally here, so I gotta throw out this is just
my meatball topic. I like Kyle McCord. He's a pocket guy.
There's limitations I think he makes. I think he lets
it rip. I think he's a confident kid. He's played
at a powerhouse that he didn't have to carry, and
(41:37):
at Syracuse where he did. I thought he was highly productive.
I think eighteen yards in totally trust him. Not a
huge arm. But I watch him and I think to myself,
if that guy landed with a McVeigh and sat for
two years, could he come out of that draft? And
you're like, yeah, he had a twelve year career.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
You know, he is one of those guys. And it's
because of what you said. He has that mentality. Now
it's gonna work both ways. And you can say the
same thing for cam Ward right, He'll make mistakes, gonna
make mistakes, but I'm willing. As they say, you'd rather
be able to say WHOA than go You'd rather have
someone you know. One of the problems right now for
Quinn yours is you got to push it down the
field a little bit. He's everything has come back to checkdowns.
(42:22):
Colin McCord, he's gonna let it rip.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
He's got a little bit about Philip Rivers.
Speaker 6 (42:26):
He does that.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
That was he's more athletic, but he's not that.
Speaker 5 (42:30):
Athletic, No, but a better better arm than Philip Rivers.
And Philip such an outlier. He's such a one on one.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Go for it guy, but he will and I like that.
Speaker 6 (42:38):
I liked it. He takes chances.
Speaker 5 (42:39):
Now what you have to do is try to mitigate
the mistakes a little bit. But he is one of
those guys in like the fourth round that I think
could be really really intriguing. I want to find guys
with plus traits, and I think that aggressiveness is a
plus trait for Colin McCord. So that's not a bad
that's not a bad name in the fourth round. But honestly,
once you get into the middle rounds, Like, I don't
think there's really many secret prospects and Jalen Milroe in
(43:03):
the first you watch a lot of college football. I
don't know where people I can't find on tape that
he's anywhere near a first rounder, not as a quarter.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
He's way too mechanical to be a great pro right,
he is so ridiculously athletic. Yes, he could be a
great piece to a team. To me, if Kaylan de
Boer has had such success Caylan was at wits end
last year. That's a guy that Michael Pennix had surgeries,
(43:30):
it didn't matter so im if Kaylin de Bororr is
struggling with him, and I heard inside the building they
love the kid, oh yeah. So But I think what's
happened is is people are going, well, Lamar Jackson, Lamar
throws the ball from the pocket now really well, really well, really.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
Well, made a lot of improvements. Jalen Hurts compared to
Jalen Hurts, that's not fair. I think Jalen Milroe is
an elite athlete like we've never seen. I think teams
are talking about him because they want to get an
explosive player in the building, figure out where we're playing
him or how we're playing the later I just think
to expect him to operate from the pocket after watching
what I saw on tape the last two years, because
(44:08):
I watched every throw of the last two years.
Speaker 6 (44:10):
Just the decision making right now is not good enough.
The accuracy is not good enough.
Speaker 5 (44:14):
But I get having an explosive player and an elite
athlete in the building, and we'll figure out what we're
going to do and how we're going to you know,
make the offense go with him. I totally understand that
in the first round. I just I couldn't get there
personally in the first round. That's one of those things.
And Tyler Shuck another guy that's a late comer that
we talked about before. A lot of physical traits that
(44:35):
you love. Maybe second best to cam Ward, maybe right
up there with cam Ward.
Speaker 6 (44:39):
Been a seven year player.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
In three of those years he's been you know, season
ending injury. So it's hard to put your your stamp
on that in the first round.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
All right, Land Zerline call, host of the Bench ninety
seven point five in Houston Rockets Warriors tonight. That is
a great series. One team can't shoot, but has all
the athletes. The other team's old and can, so that'll
be Game two tonight. It's always a pleasure to have
you love it
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