February 23, 2022 • 44 mins
Colin explains how "The Netflix Effect" is killing NBA ratings, how the physical style of the 80's and 90's NBA was good for the league, and what Aaron Rodgers most recent cryptic Instagram post says about its author (3:00).
Then, Ryen Russillo - Host of the Ryen Russillo Podcast - joins Colin for the first part of a two part interview. They discuss the growing negative narrative surrounding Zion Williamson (13:00), why All-Star Games are Nikola Jokic's kryptonite (20:00), if Colin would be a good NBA GM (24:00), what's behind the Aaron Rodgers Instagram drama (32:00), if the constant distractions decrease his trade value (35:00), and if Green Bay's ownership void has caused Aaron Rodgers to become like Brett Favre (40:00).
Make sure you follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. Mama, what does the chicken say? Draft? Draff? Really? Draft?
You're not gonna get it all right. Just make sure
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(00:23):
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Forest dot org, brought to you by the United States
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Sports Book. Hi everybody, and welcome in to the Wednesday
(01:59):
Morning Podcast. My buddy Ryan Russillo. I don't know if
he's ever been on my podcast. I've been on his,
and apparently he told me set records. It was like
a Guinness Book of World Record podcast numbers. So it's
time for him to return the favor and set some
sort of land speed record for the Colin Coward Podcast.
And I'm excited a couple of things I want to address.
(02:21):
Sometimes there's something going on in my industry, and this
podcast is really perfect for me to explain it or
let you kind of behind the curtain. There's something going
on called the Netflix effect. So we all have favorite sports.
I'm more of a football guy than a baseball guy.
I've been to spring training a half dozen times. It's awesome.
(02:41):
I do love October baseball, especially when you get the
big name teams that Cubs World Series, Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Giants.
It's fun and I grew up like a lot of
you in the seventies. It was my favorite sport. But
you know time has changed. Football's got more activity, better
on television. Blah blah, YadA, YadA YadA. But when Anyboddy says,
(03:03):
you know, these NBA ratings are down, here's the important distinction. Hockey, Baseball, MLS,
NBA ratings are all down over the last five years.
Monday through Friday, and it's called the Netflix effect. Networks
and leagues put their best games on Saturday and Sunday.
(03:26):
Right Here's where the ratings aren't going down. NFL major
college football games on Saturday, UFC fights on the weekend.
Anything that's big and heavily promoted, NASCAR, w NBA, anything
that is heavily promoted and put on the weekends is
(03:47):
doing just fine. What the American viewer has been doing
over the last five years is tuning out Monday through
Friday leagues for Netflix or Hulu or Amazon Prime. But
sports on the weekends, when it's heavily promoted and it
(04:09):
features the biggest brands and the biggest star quarterbacks, that
still does exceedingly well. So when people you know, pick
on the NBA, the ratings actually are up from last year.
I think about six percent. You know, you're telling on
yourself you don't like the NBA, and that's okay. I'm
an NFL guy, a college football guy, an NBA guy.
(04:30):
I like my UFC fights. I love the World Cup.
I still really do like the baseball playoffs if the
right teams are in. But you know, if somebody picks
on any league, the weekend stuff is still crushing in sports.
In fact, it's about the only thing we watch on
television today on broadcast TV and cable news, politics and sports.
(04:53):
If it's live, it's called the Netflix effect, and it's
affecting Monday through Friday viewing with all profession leagues in America.
I did enjoy the seventy fifth anniversary weekend for the NBA.
People do often romanticize the past in the NBA. I
think the league has never been more skilled than it
(05:14):
is now. You're not allowed to have two people on
the floor that can't shoot. Sometimes having one that can't
shoot is a liability. But there was a couple of
things back in the eighties and nineties. That did help competition.
Number One, there wasn't as much money and players were
really fighting for a piece of the pie. Everybody's rich. Now,
(05:38):
that creates some day to day apathy, right, There's no
question when Michael was beating Isaiah or a Karl Malona,
a Barkley, you were fighting for a smaller piece of
the revenue pie, So the intensity was palpable. The second
thing is the league was much more physical. They allowed
hand checking and putting four arms on people. Well, what
does that do? It creates animal It's one thing now
(06:02):
to beat you one twenty seven to one twenty. It's
another thing to beat you eighty eight to eighty when
I've bloodied your nose and pushed you around for three hours.
Physical sports UFC, NFL hockey create more animosity, and animosity
is good. It creates occasional skirmishes. You want to avoid
(06:24):
a malice in the palace. You want to avoid the
Juwan Howard situation over the weekend. But that is the
one thing I will say about the NBA. Less money,
more guys fighting for their share of the pie, and
the physicality created real animosities. Guys hated each other because
they were often tackling each other on a basketball hard floor.
(06:48):
So I put this story third because I don't want
to feel desperate. I do have to talk about the
Aaron Rodgers Instagram rambling. Listen. After the super Bowl, there's
about a three week period before we get to NFL
free agency. It is a very dry period. Now, the
super Bowl used to be the first week of February.
(07:09):
Now it's the second, which actually shaves a week of
despair off for talk show hosts, radio or TV. But
there's no question if Aaron Rodgers dropped this in the
middle of the regular season on a Monday or a Tuesday,
it wouldn't get nearly as much play as it does now.
We need content, But I do think it's interesting with Aaron. Aaron, increasingly,
(07:31):
to me, has become high IQ low EQ guy emotional quotient.
Never married, no kids, short relationships, naring forty. Bill Simmons
and I had talked about this. You get a little weird.
You know, it's a little Bill Maher, It's a little
Keith Oberman, never married, no kids, not sure if you
have pets, not necessarily steady relationships. You kind of do
(07:54):
what you want to do. I mean Aaron Rodgers goes
for a twelve day cleanse. If I called my wife
and say, hey, I'm gonna leave the kids and all
the animals in the house to you for twelve days,
I'm gonna go cleans, Yeah, she'd say, go cleans at
your nearest attorney's office. It's a different life for Aaron
Rodgers than a Brady or a Peyton Manning. And when
I read that IG post, I kind of laughed. I
(08:15):
thought it almost read like something from The Onion. The
idea of Peyton Manning or Drew Breese or Tom Brady
with big families dropping that the twelve day cleans. It
just it's really hard to relate to. And I've always
taken incredible pride at both the ESPN and Fox and
(08:36):
at iHeartRadio to be self contained as a host. I
don't need management. I really don't. I couldn't tell you.
The last time I met with Fox management, I told
them when I came over, I said, you know, I
don't really need a boss. If you're mad at me
once a year, come yell at me. But the show.
I know how to do a show. I've been doing
(08:57):
it for twenty years, and I take great pride in that,
and because of that, I have very little patience for
high maintenance people, because I've always taken great pride in
being resilient and low maintenance. When I look at Aaron
Rodgers and this constant drama, in this need to publicize
(09:18):
things and manipulate things, I just think he would wear
me out. I think as a coach he would wear
me out. I think as a general manager he could
wear me out. And that's why I don't necessarily feel
the way that many do about Aaron. I would not
give up five first round picks for Aaron Rodgers. There
(09:39):
is no proof that Aaron Rodgers plays his best football
in the postseason. There's proof Brady does, There's proof Matt
Stafford in fourth quarters plays his best football, But there
is no proof in the playoffs, even at home as
a favorite, that Aaron Rodgers plays his best football in
(10:01):
those games. I would, actually because I do think Russell
Wilson adds a leadership dimension and a mobility dimension that
Aaron doesn't offer. I would give up more for Russell Wilson.
I also think he's closer to his prime. I think
he's still in it, So I just I kind of
look at the Aaron Rodgers ig, and I think you
(10:22):
just have to bake in a lot of things. We
talk about Tom Brady's age. How much would you give
up for Tom Brady a first round pick? I probably
wouldn't give up much more due to his age, because
of his recklessness. How much would you give up for
Carson Wentz. Now we know you'd give up almost everything
for Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow or Patrick Mahomes.
But I look at right now with Aaron Rodgers, between
(10:44):
the drama and the maintenance and his postseason struggles, I
don't think he's a four five six first second round
pick guy anymore. I think if I was Denver, I
would really like to have him, and I'd give I'd
give up a couple the number ones, but that's about it.
I think there are some emotional quotient issues with Aaron
(11:08):
that he can be very taxing on a staff, very
taxing on the front office, and I think you have
to bake that in. I mean, listen, if we're going
to discount Jimmy Garoppolo, who's been two more Super Bowls
than Aaron Rodgers has in the last three years, if
we're going to discount him because of injuries or Wentz
because of recklessness despite having twenty seven tds and seven
(11:30):
picks with a bad receiving corps. I think you have
to take some points off Aaron's value based on this
constant drama, walking on eggshells and neediness that is really
part of a nearly forty year old guy who remained single.
(11:51):
All right, my buddy Ryan Risilo, I bring him on
the Hurt all the time. I'd never yet bring him
on a podcast because mostly because he's busy as shit
and I don't want to bother him. But he's great,
he's got great access. So how's this for breaking news? Rousselo.
So this just came down. I want you to react
to it. Your instant reaction. It's not I'm not even ready.
I know, I know this is gonna be amazing. Okay.
(12:13):
So JJ Reddick went on this morning and talked about
Zion and said, like, hey man, he's disengaged teammate. Well
he'd know, right, Like that's access, that's why you paid guys.
So Scott Kushner, who covers the Pelicans, comes out on
Twitter and says JJ Reddick's a duke guy, a ciaa
guy and somebody with a grudge against David Griffin. Here's whatever.
(12:35):
It's interesting he goes for him to light up Zion
as a bad teammate and not invested in the franchise
or his career is the most damning condemnation I can
think of, short of a current teammate doing it, to
which I would say, yeah, that's why you pay him
to be an analyst, because most athletes are analysts. Won't
use that access. I thought when JJ said it today.
(12:57):
I didn't watch it live, but I thought, shit, that
is powerful. And I'm a Zion guy. I thought he
was so joyful and fun. But I'm gonna support JJ
Reddick on this, like, that's why you pay you. And
I have complained privately, you pay guys big money, they
never give you anything, and they have access you and
I sometimes can't get right. Yeah, this is one that
(13:18):
I you know, Look, I know you're a subscribe to
the Rasilo podcast, but I've been on this since last summer.
My information had been that Zion was a pretty detached
guy from the team. I mean, I was a joke
in the other day before the All Star break, there
was one story that said he'd be good to go
in two weeks. The same day there was another story
that said need second surgery, maybe out for the season.
(13:38):
So I'm like, okay, And as you know, there's a
difference between and I say, hey, I'm just talking out louder.
I'm thinking out loud, like what about this, Here's how
I feel about this. And there are other times I'll say,
you know the read I get on this. So I've
done like three Zion videos and I'm with you, Colin.
I love him as a player. I loved his joy
his only season at Duke. Remember he turns his ankle
(13:58):
the weird sneaker thing, and then people were like, why
would you go back and play? Like these people that
just hate college athletics and maybe hate sports in general,
but are just on TV talking about it, which is
an entirely different subject. But Zion's like, look, I want
to beat North Carolina. I want to maybe win a
national championship, go to Final four. Like that's why I
came here. Let's go ahead and do that. I'm like,
good for him, he actually just wants to play. So
we have now, in a very short amount of time,
(14:19):
seen a completely different version of him and based on
what JJ says, who knows it better than I do
because he's connected to it. But also backing up everything
that I had heard is that this is becoming untenable
and it's not as big of a story because Zion,
luckily for him, has drafted behind all the attention on
Harden and on Simmons and on the Kyrie stuff. So
(14:43):
now that we're starting to learn more about the Zion
deal and that JJ would go on first Take and
light him up, and then CJ McCollum, who is really smart,
as you know, and when he said that to Kenny Smith,
like hey, I didn't even talk to this guy yet,
he didn't hold that he wanted us to know that. Yes,
So this is this is a very disappointing story, not
only based on Zion's commitment to being a pro athlete,
(15:06):
but also how detached he's been from the team. And
that's where I think this is all starting to build
up to something they could get a lot more dramatic.
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(18:03):
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Dot org brought to you by the AD Council. Welcome
out and machine. All right, I'm gonna throw another thing
at you, Rosillo, because I respect your knowledge, your insights,
(18:27):
and acumen. Here. So, there was some talk about Yokis
not playing late in the game in the All Star Game,
and I find Yokis to be a fascinating player. Here's
why he's not built for All Star games. Carl Malone
was a more consistent great player than Doctor J. Doctor
J is built for an All Star game. Totally flamboyant, wild, memorable,
(18:48):
crazy and love the spotlight. Love his biggest dunks were
in the biggest games. Karl Malone put me to sleep,
but I watched them live twenty times. And you take
away John Stockton and the freeze ros, you take away
about forty percent of his points where and none of
his baskets are memorable. I can't remember two Carl Malone baskets.
That's Yokich. He's a damn point center. The All Star Game.
(19:11):
We want we want jam Or rant on the floor
being a guard. We want our bigs being embiid dunks,
and that Yokich. And by the way, this is the
downside of being unique in any career. This is why
he's a second round pick. There's no comp for him,
right like Russell Wilson is a third rounder because there's
no comp. Kaider Murray goes one because Russell's his comp. Right,
(19:32):
And so I find Yoki is one of those guys.
I think he's a great player. But as I was
watching the All Star Game, I'm like, I don't want
to see Yokich. He's not an All Star. And that's
It's an interesting thing. You and I have talked about
our business. Some people are built for the take, some
people are built for depth. And like, Yokich is a
(19:55):
bad All Star player and he's going to be for
the next fifteen years. He's probably three MVPs thoughts, I
think you're explaining Rudy Gobert more than you are yoks
all right, that's the when you start to do the
call I'm alone part of this where you go, like, look,
two of the two of my favorite moments ever from
an All Star game of the same one, Dominiqu Wilkins.
(20:16):
He had two three sixties in the same game. I
forget he was on the call. I'm wondering if it
was Tommy Heinsen. We're talking mid eighties and he's like,
it's a seven twenty, you know, because he had had
Dominique Wilkins. As your point that I do agree with
built for the All Star Game. The problem is it's
not so much that Yokich is say boring, it's that
you need everybody else to understand how great he is
(20:36):
and to play that way around him, because Denver, that's
not a great team with these injuries, man, and what
he's doing. Ye from no questions like I look, I
don't like when people say it's not close. When it's close,
it's close. Between Mbid and Yokis. I probably changed my
mind a couple of times every week, depending on who
I most recently saw, because I'm so enamored with both
(20:57):
of them. I'm huge fans of both players, but Yo
Kitch is probably boring in an all star setting because
the other four guys don't want to play basketball. Yeah.
You know, I heard things about Michael Porter years ago
and they've all come true. You know, you and I
both know scouts, and in fact, I'll throw this out
(21:17):
there big time. So today I had a general manager
in the NFL text me and say, what do you
think about Kyle Hamilton the kid on your podcast? And
I wrote some stuff. I was so proud. He goes, shit,
I wish my scouts were this detail. This is great,
And so I think you and I privately harbor this interest.
(21:41):
We'd love to be scouts, but now we make too
much money to be a regional scout. But it's a
great life, right but it well, yeah, wait, do you
think you'd be a good GM? Be honest, I'm a
very good delegator, So that part I'd be laughing about
the idea, kind of laughing at about you. I'm laughing
(22:03):
at the drama building in this answer, So let me
lay out and just give me the space. I think
I'm very good. I think at the volume my staff
would tell you I'm a good delegator. I can spot talent.
I can you know when you can't when you I
thought at ESPN when I helped build FS one and
I wrote lists of people I try to get you.
I think I'm good at spotting and compartmentalizing talent. I'm
(22:26):
also not somebody that's terribly rigid. I can pivot off
stuff if you tell me something. I don't mind being wrong.
I think it's funny. Like if I'm wrong, I'm wrong,
I move off it in one instant. I'm not rigid.
I'm not stubborn now. Obviously, if I'd have dedicated my
life at seven until today with being a scout, I
think it'd be pretty effective. I haven't so right now,
(22:48):
I just whip and be terrible. But I do think
I do have certain things. I really like kind of
incubating talent, and I like giving people little bits of
wisdom because I'm older than almost all my friends, so
(23:08):
that part. I'm a good baton hander, right Like I
like spotting stuff, helping you see it elevating it, and
I don't think you can be selfish as a manager
or a GM, so that I would be good at.
So now that I just talked too long, go ahead, No,
that's all right, I talked forever. I mean you get
(23:28):
you get the two of us together. Who knows um well.
I like Kyle Hampton a lot. So why so I
think you had more on the answer. I interrupted your
answer with another question, So I don't have much more
to add to that. I do know that you if
you're gonna be a GM or you're gonna be anywhere
like that, you can't like the guys that screw up
will almost always say I didn't really know how to
manage people. Yeah, that's that's what I think. They get
(23:53):
people to turn on them immediately. That mean, look, some
guys just completely whipping the draft. Some people have bad ownership.
It has nothing to do with the GM or whatsoever.
But I think you're pointing on something pretty good. Did
you watch Draft Day with Kevin Costner? I've seen that,
you know, It's funny. Three weeks ago somebody brought it
up and I'm like, I'm embarrassed to admit I've never
seen it, and I think that's okay, and I think
it's okay to admit that. Two nights ago it's on
(24:15):
and I watched The Last Way Our fifteen and it's
really pretty darn good. I liked it. I mean, it's
a really dramatic, but it was pretty good. I couldn't
write on that one because they would have I'd be
like that, what's not gonna happen. They'd be like, get
this guy out of here. I wonder you're h the
GM Costner was way more daring than any real life GM,
Like he was doing making deals and you're like, yeah,
(24:36):
that shit ain't happening on the clock. I'm sorry. I
hate to break it to you. That may have happened
in March, it's not happening April twenty third, on Friday,
it ain't happening, yeah, because I think I remember even
Darryl Morey tweeting like this isn't even remotely realistic. You're like,
no shit, no shit, Like like, hey, we're thirty minutes
into the movie. These guys have only talked about midlevel exceptions.
(24:59):
We're gonna ken We're gonna have to get this moving
a big guys, can we get to the story. So
it is hit Ben. No, okay, go ahead, go ahead,
this is Ben. Let's not bury the headline. This is
twenty twenty one was a big cowherd year. If you
were a stock and I were on CNBC and I
were analyzing you, I'd say, look, a lot of people
(25:21):
said he was at a ceiling. There wasn't really much
room to growth to kind of reached their market share.
I go, but you know, up between Westbrook and Mayfield,
we still seem some upside potential in this guy. That's
why i'd probably sell you now. I think i'd sell
you now based on you maximizing the value of your
Baker and Westbrook positions. I don't know the volume is.
(25:42):
We're getting guys like Rosilla on the volume. I think
I got some growth here. For the next two years,
you felt so bad about being right about Baker, which
again I thought was a little personal at times, that
you then posted a picture of him at your friend
David Slay's restaurant, and because he was polite at the restaurant,
you felt like, hey, I'm a real straight shooter. I've
been hard on Baker Mayfield, but he didn't flip tables
(26:05):
over at my friend's restaurants. So he's okay in my book.
You know what is that I do always think that
I've got to be fair like I will admit I
think Aaron Rodgers is incredibly needy. He's just not my
kind of guy at all. I mean I've broken off
(26:25):
friendships because guys were high maintenance. Two things I break
off a friendship you're a shitty tipper or your high maintenance.
I don't know about his tipping, but he is so
high maintenance. By the way. Let me segue to you,
let me pivot to you. You got to watch out
for this because when you're a good looking guy, you
get close to forty and you've never been married, no kids. Yeah,
(26:46):
you know what happens is you start you have a
high IQ. You've got to maintain your high EQ because
what happens is I mean I talked about this in
the intro. If I went to it sounds like Vince
Vaughan right now, or this is non rise more then Vince.
This is McConaughey a director's cut out take from Wolf
of Wall Street when he's talking it DiCaprio, Let's go ahead.
(27:07):
If I went to Anne and said, hey, babe, I'm
gonna take a twelve day cleans. You got the kids,
you got the house, you got the dogs. I'll see
him like two thursdays. She would she would literally look
at me and say, get out, go stay at a hotel.
But when you're forty, no kids, it's the Oberman thing.
It's I love Bill Maher, but it's like you become
(27:29):
the center of your universe. Kids humble you, Relationships humble you,
Animals humble you. I'm cleaning shit out of my yard
four times a day with my dogs. And so you
got to be careful at Rossillo because your life right
now is working out, crushing a podcast and eating steaks.
You got to be careful. It's a fair observation. I would.
(27:52):
I would admit. Um. You know when when people try
to tell me, like hey, kids completely round you out.
It's it's not that they make you happy all the time.
It's that they bring you to even right, they bring
you to even whether it's their support and the younger
age is unconditional love or their hatred for you as
they grow older. And then it kind of just makes
you go, all right, whatever issues I have to deal with,
(28:12):
I gotta try to get my fourteen year old to
stop hating me. I understand these things. I do understand
the things without understanding it, which is what I try
to explain to people. But then I don't know, people
never want to hear it. They never want to hear
from somebody that's older and doesn't have any kids. And
then I'll just think, like, hey, you do realize there's
like seven billion of us, Like there's a lot of
people that have had kids. So yeah, like you know, see,
(28:33):
you're pushing back a little bit. You know it didn't
Anne essentially do that to you though, Oh she broke
up seven times. I mean seriously, yeah right, No, I'm
just mean, like if you said, hey, I'm taking off
for a couple of weeks, she kind of moved Yeah,
I mean listen, I mean Anne was it was. It
was really funny for two people that were in love.
(28:53):
It was we did it. We had a lot of conflict.
I mean it was I'm not talking back in the day.
I'm not trying to get into your business. No, I'm
fine much done something right. But she just doesn't deal
with my you know, she's not going to deal with anything,
Like if I throw stuff at her. She just throws
it right back. But see, this is what I need.
I need somebody who likes me, but not so much.
They want to see me everything. That's right, because that's
(29:15):
what I would need in my life. And that's why
I think what you have is perfect. Man. So who's
your I don't want to well, I'm gonna get personal.
So are you dating right now? You're not getting this on? No,
you're not dating, Oh Jesus. So you're just out there
throwing fastballs and seeing who can catch it. That's dangerous, Jesus.
You're just throwing out That means you got thirty pound
(29:36):
test line, you got bait on there. You're throwing it
out there and just whatever shark grabs it, you're reeling home.
I don't know if that's I finished a feature script
the other day, so it's very excited about that. I'm
dating my work Colin. Oh god, that sounds awful. It
really is. I'm in a relationship with Art Oh good, hell,
that sounded I was trying to make an Aaron Rodgers.
(29:56):
I was gonna say, so let's let's let's pivot to that.
So here that's how I read the Instagram. There's a
lot of hearts. It felt like Monday. I didn't make it.
I got a couple of lines of I couldn't do that.
It had an onion feel to it. I was like, Aaron, honestly,
stop sipping tequila, like scale back. When you start drinking,
you start kind of being. You either get snarky or sweet.
(30:20):
He got I mean, he went off a little bit
right like. I read it and I was like, this
is a Hallmark card, man, this is one of those bad,
cheesy posters you buy at Hallmark. You know, like wine
is good for the soul, get drunk on it. It's like,
now I just want to get drunk without the soul.
I don't need the soul. Yeah, I don't want Yeah,
I don't want to soul. I just want to feel
a little loose. I'll always I'm always amazed, just in
general of the pursuit. I just don't have that in me.
(30:43):
I don't know what that is. Maybe it's just the efficiency.
Maybe it's a suit of wastional peer where when I'll
hear about these people that will be like, oh, you know,
for a year or so, I turned him down. I'm
like fuck, Like, if I don't get a text back
that has some sort of emotion to it. I'm like,
I'm out, you know, So he was he was saying,
it's it's like you let me chase. I still would
like to know, like how hard of a cell was it?
(31:04):
Multiple MVP starting quarterback in the NFL. I can't imagine.
It was just like I don't know. I'm not I
don't see it. Yeah, you know too, Parson about this,
I don't know. I don't want to be unfair here. No,
I'm not. We're not being unfair. I mean, listen, I
just think this started with Aaron's a lot of work,
Like you're not You're not high maintenance at all. Like
(31:26):
I'll call you into it. Hey, dude, stakes to night
on me. You're like, no, it's on me. Let's do
it tomorrow. Literally we'll talk for a minute. You are
the lowest maintenance guy. But but there are things with Aaron.
I'm like, and I said this in the preamble to you,
I said, you know, we dock Brady because of his age,
and Garoppolo because of his health, and Wentz because of
(31:46):
his risk factor. Ryan. If I'm a general manager, Aaron's
a lot of work. He's a lot of work for
the staff. He's a lot of work for the front office.
I'm not giving up four firsts for him. I think
you have to. I mean, I'm serious about this, Like
we dock quarterbacks based on age and health, and Aaron,
to me, is not as valuable as Matt Stafford on
(32:08):
the open market. Stafford is like a total adult, low maintenance,
great in the fourth Like I feel like with Matt,
he just does his shit, goes home to his wife
and kids, and I don't worry about him. Aaron's gotten
to the point where it's like, man, it's a little
like Durant. You gotta walk on eggshells a lot with him. Right. Well,
(32:29):
first of all, I'm I'm very pro Durant, even though
I think we could talk about any one of our
single favorite athletes ever and if we wanted to make
a negative argument about him or anti argument, you know,
we do this for a living. I could come up
with some stuff, but I just don't. Even like I've
alost made a rule recently, it's if I like, like
ninety percent, yet I don't want to spend time on
pointing out the ten percent all the time. You and
I have disagreed about Rogers in the past, I think
(32:49):
you were harder on him than I was. I think
I've defended him throughout his entire career. I've loved watching
him play. You know, he's going to go down as
one of the all time greats as far as ability.
His resume is not going to be close to some
of the other top guys. But I started to come
to your side of the argument a little bit through
this last season because I kept thinking, look, if you
need to be more specific about what is so bad,
(33:12):
that's what you said about Yeah, right, Like if you're
mad about Jordan Love, I get it. I also think
Brady should have been pissed about Garoppolo or the time
they took Kevin O'Connell. I think in the third round
do you remember that, Well, he's now a head coach
of the Vikings, you don't remember his playing career. It
was a total whiff. You're like, why do you have
to get cute with this shit? And so I felt
like with Rogers, I mean, you need to convince me
(33:33):
that you're basically Matthew Stafford, Like imagine, like I'm looking
at him, going, you guys have a really good roster.
No one's ever had a problem with this front office
until you've pointed out they've actually spent in free agency
with this new regime much more they did with Ted Thompson.
And yet they've always put this together. And if I
really wanted to get a Roger's case, you start pointing
to some of these home playoff losses and I'm not
(33:53):
even going there with it. So I didn't feel like
he was convincing enough for me to believe in all
the drama, which then lead towards how high maintenance is
this guy now? To say is he worth it? Think
about some of these franchises that go easily two decades
before they have any answer at the position. If you
know you can bring him in even at his age,
he's still worth it. It actually kind of mirrors your
(34:14):
Michael Porter Jr. Point that we didn't really finish. I
heard stuff. I also heard the most important thing, that
he was the biggest medical red flag teams that had
seen in ten plus years. But no one cares about
the tow truck, No one cares about some of his Politically,
no one cares about that stuff. If he's healthy in
scoring twenty a game, and I'm not saying no one,
but you understand in the scheme of what we do
(34:34):
in talking sports, if you're productive, those things don't matter
as much. And for Rogers, he's still as productive as
anyone playing the position. Although I agree like this has
taken a turn to the last year plus where I've thought,
how are you this mad when the team has been
this good? Right? Like, they're not going four and twelve
(34:54):
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us Kids, brought to you by the US Department of Health,
the Human Services Administration for Children and Families, and the
ad Council. Okay, so I threw something out today. You've
(37:03):
heard about this Havana syndrome in Cuba. We send diplomats
to Cuba, they go to this hotel, they come back,
they're all sick. Nobody knows what it is. They called
the Havannah syndrome. And I said, Brett Favan, Aaron Rodgers
are completely different people. I mean, Southerner, no cow, almost
a hippie. They become the same person. Why And I
(37:24):
called the Green Bay Packer quarterback syndrome. So the organization
the Super Bowl trophies named after your coach. It's called Titletown.
You will win the division because you've always been almost
always the best run organization. So there is this unique pressure.
But over the last twenty to twenty five years, not
having an owner is an issue. I mean, Stan Cronky's
(37:47):
on the phone. That's why you get Matt Stafford, because
Cronky's on the tarmac. And mcvaan less sneed Cronky told
me this. He's about ready to take off and they're like,
we've got to make a decision now. And he's on
the tarmac at Lax and his golf stream and he's like, okay,
let's do it. You couldn't do that with the Packers. Secondly,
they don't get free agents. Obj von Miller, that's really
(38:10):
important to get great talent. So the Green Bay Packers
syndrome is you have this Lombardi Trophy, titletown pressure, you
dominate the division and then you fail in the playoffs
and you get a lot of heat and every March, April,
May June you get kind of restless because you're continually
(38:32):
disappointing people. When the truth is it's not easy. I
think it's almost essential to have a strong willed owner
and free agent viability. It's not built twin titles now.
And so I think Farvin Rodgers, this is if Jordan's
love was great in ten years, this is what he
(38:54):
would deal with. And so you know, it's kind of
my takeaway. I think it is hard to be far
Van Rodgers in that town and that team. I think
it's so unique to professional sports. There's nothing else really
like it. Your take, I don't know if you right
(39:15):
or wrong on it, because why do they win ten
years ago? You know? Like I think there are times
in sports I can remember stuff that's specific to me.
I remember forever all the reasons in Red Sox haven't
won in eight decades. It is because of the monster.
You know, Yeah, you can't get left handers there, It's impossible.
And then they win for a World Series and you're like, oh, okay,
well maybe maybe you know, like what happened? You're a
(39:35):
point to la Hey, they can go get a OBJ,
they can bring in von Miller, Jalen Ramsey wanted to
be here all of these different things. Well shouldn't they
win more than I love the comp though of Farvan
Rodgers becoming very similar despite completely different backgrounds. I love
that because far I mean, think how selfish you have
(39:56):
to be to be far Off towards the end of
your career, to basically retire four times, come back okay,
and then far act like he was done wrong. He
went to play for the Jets just so he could
play with the Vikings to get back at him. I
kind of respect the pettiness and the grudge holding. As
an all time grudge holder, I respected that part of it.
(40:17):
That's the part well, I wouldn't say it's the inability
to win, and that may not be what you're doing.
Maybe because there is this void that it leads to
you thinking you're more important and more powerful at that position,
especially when we're talking about back to back all timers here,
Like I don't know that anybody's gonna have a top
ten list at all time in the position without both
of those guys. I think that actually be a big mistake.
(40:39):
So maybe that's what it is, that you become this
powerful figure that fills this void that only exists in
Green Bay. Yeah, so that's the part I would agree
with you on. I just don't know. Sometimes I don't
love playing the results of like, hey, this team won,
So now let's go backwards and say why all these
reasons are smart? Like the rams are another perfect example,
Like now everybody just draft pick suck. But I think
(41:00):
that's a bit extreme. Okay, Now if you want to
tell me, ye we want to start trading picks into
twenties all the time. Well, now, now I might be
listening to you. You know, probably on is something. So
I'm with you on the personality part of it. And look,
I don't spend any time out there. It's one of
the few places I haven't been. I haven't spent a
ton of time. But it is crazy that you've had
back to back guys think so highly of themselves they
(41:24):
basically hold their franchises hostage. And that's what we've had. Yeah,
I mean, what's interesting is the point you made I
also used on the air, but I didn't use it
in our discussion five minutes ago, which is, with no owner,
you are the most powerful person. You're much more powerful.
You know. It's like what's happened to college basketball and
football coaches. You're the highest paid state employee with no owner.
(41:47):
Aaron is by far and away the richest most powerful
person in the organization. I mean, Matt Stafford, his career
earnings are less than Stan Cronkie will make you know
over a weekend between his ownership of his teams, like
and you you know, as powerful as Belichick is, Bob
Kraft is like Trade Garoppolo. Okay, like you do far
(42:08):
An Aaron. One of the few times I believe too
in the history of this relationship in New England twenty
years nowhere where Craft got his way because of Tom.
So no I'm agreeing with you. I'm just saying that
that's how rare that was though in that in that time,
I don't think that's happened very often with those two
(42:39):
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(01:07):
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you The Colin Coward Podcast presented by the Fan Duel
Sports Book. Hi everybody, and welcome in to the Wednesday
(01:59):
Morning Podcast. My buddy Ryan Russillo. I don't know if
he's ever been on my podcast. I've been on his,
and apparently he told me set records. It was like
a Guinness Book of World Record podcast numbers. So it's
time for him to return the favor and set some
sort of land speed record for the Colin Coward Podcast.
And I'm excited a couple of things I want to address.
(02:21):
Sometimes there's something going on in my industry, and this
podcast is really perfect for me to explain it or
let you kind of behind the curtain. There's something going
on called the Netflix effect. So we all have favorite sports.
I'm more of a football guy than a baseball guy.
I've been to spring training a half dozen times. It's awesome.
(02:41):
I do love October baseball, especially when you get the
big name teams that Cubs World Series, Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Giants.
It's fun and I grew up like a lot of
you in the seventies. It was my favorite sport. But
you know time has changed. Football's got more activity, better
on television. Blah blah, YadA, YadA YadA. But when Anyboddy says,
(03:03):
you know, these NBA ratings are down, here's the important distinction. Hockey, Baseball, MLS,
NBA ratings are all down over the last five years.
Monday through Friday, and it's called the Netflix effect. Networks
and leagues put their best games on Saturday and Sunday.
(03:26):
Right Here's where the ratings aren't going down. NFL major
college football games on Saturday, UFC fights on the weekend.
Anything that's big and heavily promoted, NASCAR, w NBA, anything
that is heavily promoted and put on the weekends is
(03:47):
doing just fine. What the American viewer has been doing
over the last five years is tuning out Monday through
Friday leagues for Netflix or Hulu or Amazon Prime. But
sports on the weekends, when it's heavily promoted and it
(04:09):
features the biggest brands and the biggest star quarterbacks, that
still does exceedingly well. So when people you know, pick
on the NBA, the ratings actually are up from last year.
I think about six percent. You know, you're telling on
yourself you don't like the NBA, and that's okay. I'm
an NFL guy, a college football guy, an NBA guy.
(04:30):
I like my UFC fights. I love the World Cup.
I still really do like the baseball playoffs if the
right teams are in. But you know, if somebody picks
on any league, the weekend stuff is still crushing in sports.
In fact, it's about the only thing we watch on
television today on broadcast TV and cable news, politics and sports.
(04:53):
If it's live, it's called the Netflix effect, and it's
affecting Monday through Friday viewing with all profession leagues in America.
I did enjoy the seventy fifth anniversary weekend for the NBA.
People do often romanticize the past in the NBA. I
think the league has never been more skilled than it
(05:14):
is now. You're not allowed to have two people on
the floor that can't shoot. Sometimes having one that can't
shoot is a liability. But there was a couple of
things back in the eighties and nineties. That did help competition.
Number One, there wasn't as much money and players were
really fighting for a piece of the pie. Everybody's rich. Now,
(05:38):
that creates some day to day apathy, right, There's no
question when Michael was beating Isaiah or a Karl Malona,
a Barkley, you were fighting for a smaller piece of
the revenue pie, So the intensity was palpable. The second
thing is the league was much more physical. They allowed
hand checking and putting four arms on people. Well, what
does that do? It creates animal It's one thing now
(06:02):
to beat you one twenty seven to one twenty. It's
another thing to beat you eighty eight to eighty when
I've bloodied your nose and pushed you around for three hours.
Physical sports UFC, NFL hockey create more animosity, and animosity
is good. It creates occasional skirmishes. You want to avoid
(06:24):
a malice in the palace. You want to avoid the
Juwan Howard situation over the weekend. But that is the
one thing I will say about the NBA. Less money,
more guys fighting for their share of the pie, and
the physicality created real animosities. Guys hated each other because
they were often tackling each other on a basketball hard floor.
(06:48):
So I put this story third because I don't want
to feel desperate. I do have to talk about the
Aaron Rodgers Instagram rambling. Listen. After the super Bowl, there's
about a three week period before we get to NFL
free agency. It is a very dry period. Now, the
super Bowl used to be the first week of February.
(07:09):
Now it's the second, which actually shaves a week of
despair off for talk show hosts, radio or TV. But
there's no question if Aaron Rodgers dropped this in the
middle of the regular season on a Monday or a Tuesday,
it wouldn't get nearly as much play as it does now.
We need content, But I do think it's interesting with Aaron. Aaron, increasingly,
(07:31):
to me, has become high IQ low EQ guy emotional quotient.
Never married, no kids, short relationships, naring forty. Bill Simmons
and I had talked about this. You get a little weird.
You know, it's a little Bill Maher, It's a little
Keith Oberman, never married, no kids, not sure if you
have pets, not necessarily steady relationships. You kind of do
(07:54):
what you want to do. I mean Aaron Rodgers goes
for a twelve day cleanse. If I called my wife
and say, hey, I'm gonna leave the kids and all
the animals in the house to you for twelve days,
I'm gonna go cleans, Yeah, she'd say, go cleans at
your nearest attorney's office. It's a different life for Aaron
Rodgers than a Brady or a Peyton Manning. And when
I read that IG post, I kind of laughed. I
(08:15):
thought it almost read like something from The Onion. The
idea of Peyton Manning or Drew Breese or Tom Brady
with big families dropping that the twelve day cleans. It
just it's really hard to relate to. And I've always
taken incredible pride at both the ESPN and Fox and
(08:36):
at iHeartRadio to be self contained as a host. I
don't need management. I really don't. I couldn't tell you.
The last time I met with Fox management, I told
them when I came over, I said, you know, I
don't really need a boss. If you're mad at me
once a year, come yell at me. But the show.
I know how to do a show. I've been doing
(08:57):
it for twenty years, and I take great pride in that,
and because of that, I have very little patience for
high maintenance people, because I've always taken great pride in
being resilient and low maintenance. When I look at Aaron
Rodgers and this constant drama, in this need to publicize
(09:18):
things and manipulate things, I just think he would wear
me out. I think as a coach he would wear
me out. I think as a general manager he could
wear me out. And that's why I don't necessarily feel
the way that many do about Aaron. I would not
give up five first round picks for Aaron Rodgers. There
(09:39):
is no proof that Aaron Rodgers plays his best football
in the postseason. There's proof Brady does, There's proof Matt
Stafford in fourth quarters plays his best football, But there
is no proof in the playoffs, even at home as
a favorite, that Aaron Rodgers plays his best football in
(10:01):
those games. I would, actually because I do think Russell
Wilson adds a leadership dimension and a mobility dimension that
Aaron doesn't offer. I would give up more for Russell Wilson.
I also think he's closer to his prime. I think
he's still in it, So I just I kind of
look at the Aaron Rodgers ig, and I think you
(10:22):
just have to bake in a lot of things. We
talk about Tom Brady's age. How much would you give
up for Tom Brady a first round pick? I probably
wouldn't give up much more due to his age, because
of his recklessness. How much would you give up for
Carson Wentz. Now we know you'd give up almost everything
for Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow or Patrick Mahomes.
But I look at right now with Aaron Rodgers, between
(10:44):
the drama and the maintenance and his postseason struggles, I
don't think he's a four five six first second round
pick guy anymore. I think if I was Denver, I
would really like to have him, and I'd give I'd
give up a couple the number ones, but that's about it.
I think there are some emotional quotient issues with Aaron
(11:08):
that he can be very taxing on a staff, very
taxing on the front office, and I think you have
to bake that in. I mean, listen, if we're going
to discount Jimmy Garoppolo, who's been two more Super Bowls
than Aaron Rodgers has in the last three years, if
we're going to discount him because of injuries or Wentz
because of recklessness despite having twenty seven tds and seven
(11:30):
picks with a bad receiving corps. I think you have
to take some points off Aaron's value based on this
constant drama, walking on eggshells and neediness that is really
part of a nearly forty year old guy who remained single.
(11:51):
All right, my buddy Ryan Risilo, I bring him on
the Hurt all the time. I'd never yet bring him
on a podcast because mostly because he's busy as shit
and I don't want to bother him. But he's great,
he's got great access. So how's this for breaking news? Rousselo.
So this just came down. I want you to react
to it. Your instant reaction. It's not I'm not even ready.
I know, I know this is gonna be amazing. Okay.
(12:13):
So JJ Reddick went on this morning and talked about
Zion and said, like, hey man, he's disengaged teammate. Well
he'd know, right, Like that's access, that's why you paid guys.
So Scott Kushner, who covers the Pelicans, comes out on
Twitter and says JJ Reddick's a duke guy, a ciaa
guy and somebody with a grudge against David Griffin. Here's whatever.
(12:35):
It's interesting he goes for him to light up Zion
as a bad teammate and not invested in the franchise
or his career is the most damning condemnation I can
think of, short of a current teammate doing it, to
which I would say, yeah, that's why you pay him
to be an analyst, because most athletes are analysts. Won't
use that access. I thought when JJ said it today.
(12:57):
I didn't watch it live, but I thought, shit, that
is powerful. And I'm a Zion guy. I thought he
was so joyful and fun. But I'm gonna support JJ
Reddick on this, like, that's why you pay you. And
I have complained privately, you pay guys big money, they
never give you anything, and they have access you and
I sometimes can't get right. Yeah, this is one that
(13:18):
I you know, Look, I know you're a subscribe to
the Rasilo podcast, but I've been on this since last summer.
My information had been that Zion was a pretty detached
guy from the team. I mean, I was a joke
in the other day before the All Star break, there
was one story that said he'd be good to go
in two weeks. The same day there was another story
that said need second surgery, maybe out for the season.
(13:38):
So I'm like, okay, And as you know, there's a
difference between and I say, hey, I'm just talking out louder.
I'm thinking out loud, like what about this, Here's how
I feel about this. And there are other times I'll say,
you know the read I get on this. So I've
done like three Zion videos and I'm with you, Colin.
I love him as a player. I loved his joy
his only season at Duke. Remember he turns his ankle
(13:58):
the weird sneaker thing, and then people were like, why
would you go back and play? Like these people that
just hate college athletics and maybe hate sports in general,
but are just on TV talking about it, which is
an entirely different subject. But Zion's like, look, I want
to beat North Carolina. I want to maybe win a
national championship, go to Final four. Like that's why I
came here. Let's go ahead and do that. I'm like,
good for him, he actually just wants to play. So
we have now, in a very short amount of time,
(14:19):
seen a completely different version of him and based on
what JJ says, who knows it better than I do
because he's connected to it. But also backing up everything
that I had heard is that this is becoming untenable
and it's not as big of a story because Zion,
luckily for him, has drafted behind all the attention on
Harden and on Simmons and on the Kyrie stuff. So
(14:43):
now that we're starting to learn more about the Zion
deal and that JJ would go on first Take and
light him up, and then CJ McCollum, who is really smart,
as you know, and when he said that to Kenny Smith,
like hey, I didn't even talk to this guy yet,
he didn't hold that he wanted us to know that. Yes,
So this is this is a very disappointing story, not
only based on Zion's commitment to being a pro athlete,
(15:06):
but also how detached he's been from the team. And
that's where I think this is all starting to build
up to something they could get a lot more dramatic.
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out and machine. All right, I'm gonna throw another thing
at you, Rosillo, because I respect your knowledge, your insights,
(18:27):
and acumen. Here. So, there was some talk about Yokis
not playing late in the game in the All Star Game,
and I find Yokis to be a fascinating player. Here's
why he's not built for All Star games. Carl Malone
was a more consistent great player than Doctor J. Doctor
J is built for an All Star game. Totally flamboyant, wild, memorable,
(18:48):
crazy and love the spotlight. Love his biggest dunks were
in the biggest games. Karl Malone put me to sleep,
but I watched them live twenty times. And you take
away John Stockton and the freeze ros, you take away
about forty percent of his points where and none of
his baskets are memorable. I can't remember two Carl Malone baskets.
That's Yokich. He's a damn point center. The All Star Game.
(19:11):
We want we want jam Or rant on the floor
being a guard. We want our bigs being embiid dunks,
and that Yokich. And by the way, this is the
downside of being unique in any career. This is why
he's a second round pick. There's no comp for him,
right like Russell Wilson is a third rounder because there's
no comp. Kaider Murray goes one because Russell's his comp. Right,
(19:32):
And so I find Yoki is one of those guys.
I think he's a great player. But as I was
watching the All Star Game, I'm like, I don't want
to see Yokich. He's not an All Star. And that's
It's an interesting thing. You and I have talked about
our business. Some people are built for the take, some
people are built for depth. And like, Yokich is a
(19:55):
bad All Star player and he's going to be for
the next fifteen years. He's probably three MVPs thoughts, I
think you're explaining Rudy Gobert more than you are yoks
all right, that's the when you start to do the
call I'm alone part of this where you go, like, look,
two of the two of my favorite moments ever from
an All Star game of the same one, Dominiqu Wilkins.
(20:16):
He had two three sixties in the same game. I
forget he was on the call. I'm wondering if it
was Tommy Heinsen. We're talking mid eighties and he's like,
it's a seven twenty, you know, because he had had
Dominique Wilkins. As your point that I do agree with
built for the All Star Game. The problem is it's
not so much that Yokich is say boring, it's that
you need everybody else to understand how great he is
(20:36):
and to play that way around him, because Denver, that's
not a great team with these injuries, man, and what
he's doing. Ye from no questions like I look, I
don't like when people say it's not close. When it's close,
it's close. Between Mbid and Yokis. I probably changed my
mind a couple of times every week, depending on who
I most recently saw, because I'm so enamored with both
(20:57):
of them. I'm huge fans of both players, but Yo
Kitch is probably boring in an all star setting because
the other four guys don't want to play basketball. Yeah.
You know, I heard things about Michael Porter years ago
and they've all come true. You know, you and I
both know scouts, and in fact, I'll throw this out
(21:17):
there big time. So today I had a general manager
in the NFL text me and say, what do you
think about Kyle Hamilton the kid on your podcast? And
I wrote some stuff. I was so proud. He goes, shit,
I wish my scouts were this detail. This is great,
And so I think you and I privately harbor this interest.
(21:41):
We'd love to be scouts, but now we make too
much money to be a regional scout. But it's a
great life, right but it well, yeah, wait, do you
think you'd be a good GM? Be honest, I'm a
very good delegator, So that part I'd be laughing about
the idea, kind of laughing at about you. I'm laughing
(22:03):
at the drama building in this answer, So let me
lay out and just give me the space. I think
I'm very good. I think at the volume my staff
would tell you I'm a good delegator. I can spot talent.
I can you know when you can't when you I
thought at ESPN when I helped build FS one and
I wrote lists of people I try to get you.
I think I'm good at spotting and compartmentalizing talent. I'm
(22:26):
also not somebody that's terribly rigid. I can pivot off
stuff if you tell me something. I don't mind being wrong.
I think it's funny. Like if I'm wrong, I'm wrong,
I move off it in one instant. I'm not rigid.
I'm not stubborn now. Obviously, if I'd have dedicated my
life at seven until today with being a scout, I
think it'd be pretty effective. I haven't so right now,
(22:48):
I just whip and be terrible. But I do think
I do have certain things. I really like kind of
incubating talent, and I like giving people little bits of
wisdom because I'm older than almost all my friends, so
(23:08):
that part. I'm a good baton hander, right Like I
like spotting stuff, helping you see it elevating it, and
I don't think you can be selfish as a manager
or a GM, so that I would be good at.
So now that I just talked too long, go ahead, No,
that's all right, I talked forever. I mean you get
(23:28):
you get the two of us together. Who knows um well.
I like Kyle Hampton a lot. So why so I
think you had more on the answer. I interrupted your
answer with another question, So I don't have much more
to add to that. I do know that you if
you're gonna be a GM or you're gonna be anywhere
like that, you can't like the guys that screw up
will almost always say I didn't really know how to
manage people. Yeah, that's that's what I think. They get
(23:53):
people to turn on them immediately. That mean, look, some
guys just completely whipping the draft. Some people have bad ownership.
It has nothing to do with the GM or whatsoever.
But I think you're pointing on something pretty good. Did
you watch Draft Day with Kevin Costner? I've seen that,
you know, It's funny. Three weeks ago somebody brought it
up and I'm like, I'm embarrassed to admit I've never
seen it, and I think that's okay, and I think
it's okay to admit that. Two nights ago it's on
(24:15):
and I watched The Last Way Our fifteen and it's
really pretty darn good. I liked it. I mean, it's
a really dramatic, but it was pretty good. I couldn't
write on that one because they would have I'd be
like that, what's not gonna happen. They'd be like, get
this guy out of here. I wonder you're h the
GM Costner was way more daring than any real life GM,
Like he was doing making deals and you're like, yeah,
(24:36):
that shit ain't happening on the clock. I'm sorry. I
hate to break it to you. That may have happened
in March, it's not happening April twenty third, on Friday,
it ain't happening, yeah, because I think I remember even
Darryl Morey tweeting like this isn't even remotely realistic. You're like,
no shit, no shit, Like like, hey, we're thirty minutes
into the movie. These guys have only talked about midlevel exceptions.
(24:59):
We're gonna ken We're gonna have to get this moving
a big guys, can we get to the story. So
it is hit Ben. No, okay, go ahead, go ahead,
this is Ben. Let's not bury the headline. This is
twenty twenty one was a big cowherd year. If you
were a stock and I were on CNBC and I
were analyzing you, I'd say, look, a lot of people
(25:21):
said he was at a ceiling. There wasn't really much
room to growth to kind of reached their market share.
I go, but you know, up between Westbrook and Mayfield,
we still seem some upside potential in this guy. That's
why i'd probably sell you now. I think i'd sell
you now based on you maximizing the value of your
Baker and Westbrook positions. I don't know the volume is.
(25:42):
We're getting guys like Rosilla on the volume. I think
I got some growth here. For the next two years,
you felt so bad about being right about Baker, which
again I thought was a little personal at times, that
you then posted a picture of him at your friend
David Slay's restaurant, and because he was polite at the restaurant,
you felt like, hey, I'm a real straight shooter. I've
been hard on Baker Mayfield, but he didn't flip tables
(26:05):
over at my friend's restaurants. So he's okay in my book.
You know what is that I do always think that
I've got to be fair like I will admit I
think Aaron Rodgers is incredibly needy. He's just not my
kind of guy at all. I mean I've broken off
(26:25):
friendships because guys were high maintenance. Two things I break
off a friendship you're a shitty tipper or your high maintenance.
I don't know about his tipping, but he is so
high maintenance. By the way. Let me segue to you,
let me pivot to you. You got to watch out
for this because when you're a good looking guy, you
get close to forty and you've never been married, no kids. Yeah,
(26:46):
you know what happens is you start you have a
high IQ. You've got to maintain your high EQ because
what happens is I mean I talked about this in
the intro. If I went to it sounds like Vince
Vaughan right now, or this is non rise more then Vince.
This is McConaughey a director's cut out take from Wolf
of Wall Street when he's talking it DiCaprio, Let's go ahead.
(27:07):
If I went to Anne and said, hey, babe, I'm
gonna take a twelve day cleans. You got the kids,
you got the house, you got the dogs. I'll see
him like two thursdays. She would she would literally look
at me and say, get out, go stay at a hotel.
But when you're forty, no kids, it's the Oberman thing.
It's I love Bill Maher, but it's like you become
(27:29):
the center of your universe. Kids humble you, Relationships humble you,
Animals humble you. I'm cleaning shit out of my yard
four times a day with my dogs. And so you
got to be careful at Rossillo because your life right
now is working out, crushing a podcast and eating steaks.
You got to be careful. It's a fair observation. I would.
(27:52):
I would admit. Um. You know when when people try
to tell me, like hey, kids completely round you out.
It's it's not that they make you happy all the time.
It's that they bring you to even right, they bring
you to even whether it's their support and the younger
age is unconditional love or their hatred for you as
they grow older. And then it kind of just makes
you go, all right, whatever issues I have to deal with,
(28:12):
I gotta try to get my fourteen year old to
stop hating me. I understand these things. I do understand
the things without understanding it, which is what I try
to explain to people. But then I don't know, people
never want to hear it. They never want to hear
from somebody that's older and doesn't have any kids. And
then I'll just think, like, hey, you do realize there's
like seven billion of us, Like there's a lot of
people that have had kids. So yeah, like you know, see,
(28:33):
you're pushing back a little bit. You know it didn't
Anne essentially do that to you though, Oh she broke
up seven times. I mean seriously, yeah right, No, I'm
just mean, like if you said, hey, I'm taking off
for a couple of weeks, she kind of moved Yeah,
I mean listen, I mean Anne was it was. It
was really funny for two people that were in love.
(28:53):
It was we did it. We had a lot of conflict.
I mean it was I'm not talking back in the day.
I'm not trying to get into your business. No, I'm
fine much done something right. But she just doesn't deal
with my you know, she's not going to deal with anything,
Like if I throw stuff at her. She just throws
it right back. But see, this is what I need.
I need somebody who likes me, but not so much.
They want to see me everything. That's right, because that's
(29:15):
what I would need in my life. And that's why
I think what you have is perfect. Man. So who's
your I don't want to well, I'm gonna get personal.
So are you dating right now? You're not getting this on? No,
you're not dating, Oh Jesus. So you're just out there
throwing fastballs and seeing who can catch it. That's dangerous, Jesus.
You're just throwing out That means you got thirty pound
(29:36):
test line, you got bait on there. You're throwing it
out there and just whatever shark grabs it, you're reeling home.
I don't know if that's I finished a feature script
the other day, so it's very excited about that. I'm
dating my work Colin. Oh god, that sounds awful. It
really is. I'm in a relationship with Art Oh good, hell,
that sounded I was trying to make an Aaron Rodgers.
(29:56):
I was gonna say, so let's let's let's pivot to that.
So here that's how I read the Instagram. There's a
lot of hearts. It felt like Monday. I didn't make it.
I got a couple of lines of I couldn't do that.
It had an onion feel to it. I was like, Aaron, honestly,
stop sipping tequila, like scale back. When you start drinking,
you start kind of being. You either get snarky or sweet.
(30:20):
He got I mean, he went off a little bit
right like. I read it and I was like, this
is a Hallmark card, man, this is one of those bad,
cheesy posters you buy at Hallmark. You know, like wine
is good for the soul, get drunk on it. It's like,
now I just want to get drunk without the soul.
I don't need the soul. Yeah, I don't want Yeah,
I don't want to soul. I just want to feel
a little loose. I'll always I'm always amazed, just in
general of the pursuit. I just don't have that in me.
(30:43):
I don't know what that is. Maybe it's just the efficiency.
Maybe it's a suit of wastional peer where when I'll
hear about these people that will be like, oh, you know,
for a year or so, I turned him down. I'm
like fuck, Like, if I don't get a text back
that has some sort of emotion to it. I'm like,
I'm out, you know, So he was he was saying,
it's it's like you let me chase. I still would
like to know, like how hard of a cell was it?
(31:04):
Multiple MVP starting quarterback in the NFL. I can't imagine.
It was just like I don't know. I'm not I
don't see it. Yeah, you know too, Parson about this,
I don't know. I don't want to be unfair here. No,
I'm not. We're not being unfair. I mean, listen, I
just think this started with Aaron's a lot of work,
Like you're not You're not high maintenance at all. Like
(31:26):
I'll call you into it. Hey, dude, stakes to night
on me. You're like, no, it's on me. Let's do
it tomorrow. Literally we'll talk for a minute. You are
the lowest maintenance guy. But but there are things with Aaron.
I'm like, and I said this in the preamble to you,
I said, you know, we dock Brady because of his age,
and Garoppolo because of his health, and Wentz because of
(31:46):
his risk factor. Ryan. If I'm a general manager, Aaron's
a lot of work. He's a lot of work for
the staff. He's a lot of work for the front office.
I'm not giving up four firsts for him. I think
you have to. I mean, I'm serious about this, Like
we dock quarterbacks based on age and health, and Aaron,
to me, is not as valuable as Matt Stafford on
(32:08):
the open market. Stafford is like a total adult, low maintenance,
great in the fourth Like I feel like with Matt,
he just does his shit, goes home to his wife
and kids, and I don't worry about him. Aaron's gotten
to the point where it's like, man, it's a little
like Durant. You gotta walk on eggshells a lot with him. Right. Well,
(32:29):
first of all, I'm I'm very pro Durant, even though
I think we could talk about any one of our
single favorite athletes ever and if we wanted to make
a negative argument about him or anti argument, you know,
we do this for a living. I could come up
with some stuff, but I just don't. Even like I've
alost made a rule recently, it's if I like, like
ninety percent, yet I don't want to spend time on
pointing out the ten percent all the time. You and
I have disagreed about Rogers in the past, I think
(32:49):
you were harder on him than I was. I think
I've defended him throughout his entire career. I've loved watching
him play. You know, he's going to go down as
one of the all time greats as far as ability.
His resume is not going to be close to some
of the other top guys. But I started to come
to your side of the argument a little bit through
this last season because I kept thinking, look, if you
need to be more specific about what is so bad,
(33:12):
that's what you said about Yeah, right, Like if you're
mad about Jordan Love, I get it. I also think
Brady should have been pissed about Garoppolo or the time
they took Kevin O'Connell. I think in the third round
do you remember that, Well, he's now a head coach
of the Vikings, you don't remember his playing career. It
was a total whiff. You're like, why do you have
to get cute with this shit? And so I felt
like with Rogers, I mean, you need to convince me
(33:33):
that you're basically Matthew Stafford, Like imagine, like I'm looking
at him, going, you guys have a really good roster.
No one's ever had a problem with this front office
until you've pointed out they've actually spent in free agency
with this new regime much more they did with Ted Thompson.
And yet they've always put this together. And if I
really wanted to get a Roger's case, you start pointing
to some of these home playoff losses and I'm not
(33:53):
even going there with it. So I didn't feel like
he was convincing enough for me to believe in all
the drama, which then lead towards how high maintenance is
this guy now? To say is he worth it? Think
about some of these franchises that go easily two decades
before they have any answer at the position. If you
know you can bring him in even at his age,
he's still worth it. It actually kind of mirrors your
(34:14):
Michael Porter Jr. Point that we didn't really finish. I
heard stuff. I also heard the most important thing, that
he was the biggest medical red flag teams that had
seen in ten plus years. But no one cares about
the tow truck, No one cares about some of his Politically,
no one cares about that stuff. If he's healthy in
scoring twenty a game, and I'm not saying no one,
but you understand in the scheme of what we do
(34:34):
in talking sports, if you're productive, those things don't matter
as much. And for Rogers, he's still as productive as
anyone playing the position. Although I agree like this has
taken a turn to the last year plus where I've thought,
how are you this mad when the team has been
this good? Right? Like, they're not going four and twelve
(34:54):
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the Human Services Administration for Children and Families, and the
ad Council. Okay, so I threw something out today. You've
(37:03):
heard about this Havana syndrome in Cuba. We send diplomats
to Cuba, they go to this hotel, they come back,
they're all sick. Nobody knows what it is. They called
the Havannah syndrome. And I said, Brett Favan, Aaron Rodgers
are completely different people. I mean, Southerner, no cow, almost
a hippie. They become the same person. Why And I
(37:24):
called the Green Bay Packer quarterback syndrome. So the organization
the Super Bowl trophies named after your coach. It's called Titletown.
You will win the division because you've always been almost
always the best run organization. So there is this unique pressure.
But over the last twenty to twenty five years, not
having an owner is an issue. I mean, Stan Cronky's
(37:47):
on the phone. That's why you get Matt Stafford, because
Cronky's on the tarmac. And mcvaan less sneed Cronky told
me this. He's about ready to take off and they're like,
we've got to make a decision now. And he's on
the tarmac at Lax and his golf stream and he's like, okay,
let's do it. You couldn't do that with the Packers. Secondly,
they don't get free agents. Obj von Miller, that's really
(38:10):
important to get great talent. So the Green Bay Packers
syndrome is you have this Lombardi Trophy, titletown pressure, you
dominate the division and then you fail in the playoffs
and you get a lot of heat and every March, April,
May June you get kind of restless because you're continually
(38:32):
disappointing people. When the truth is it's not easy. I
think it's almost essential to have a strong willed owner
and free agent viability. It's not built twin titles now.
And so I think Farvin Rodgers, this is if Jordan's
love was great in ten years, this is what he
(38:54):
would deal with. And so you know, it's kind of
my takeaway. I think it is hard to be far
Van Rodgers in that town and that team. I think
it's so unique to professional sports. There's nothing else really
like it. Your take, I don't know if you right
(39:15):
or wrong on it, because why do they win ten
years ago? You know? Like I think there are times
in sports I can remember stuff that's specific to me.
I remember forever all the reasons in Red Sox haven't
won in eight decades. It is because of the monster.
You know, Yeah, you can't get left handers there, It's impossible.
And then they win for a World Series and you're like, oh, okay,
well maybe maybe you know, like what happened? You're a
(39:35):
point to la Hey, they can go get a OBJ,
they can bring in von Miller, Jalen Ramsey wanted to
be here all of these different things. Well shouldn't they
win more than I love the comp though of Farvan
Rodgers becoming very similar despite completely different backgrounds. I love
that because far I mean, think how selfish you have
(39:56):
to be to be far Off towards the end of
your career, to basically retire four times, come back okay,
and then far act like he was done wrong. He
went to play for the Jets just so he could
play with the Vikings to get back at him. I
kind of respect the pettiness and the grudge holding. As
an all time grudge holder, I respected that part of it.
(40:17):
That's the part well, I wouldn't say it's the inability
to win, and that may not be what you're doing.
Maybe because there is this void that it leads to
you thinking you're more important and more powerful at that position,
especially when we're talking about back to back all timers here,
Like I don't know that anybody's gonna have a top
ten list at all time in the position without both
of those guys. I think that actually be a big mistake.
(40:39):
So maybe that's what it is, that you become this
powerful figure that fills this void that only exists in
Green Bay. Yeah, so that's the part I would agree
with you on. I just don't know. Sometimes I don't
love playing the results of like, hey, this team won,
So now let's go backwards and say why all these
reasons are smart? Like the rams are another perfect example,
Like now everybody just draft pick suck. But I think
(41:00):
that's a bit extreme. Okay, Now if you want to
tell me, ye we want to start trading picks into
twenties all the time. Well, now, now I might be
listening to you. You know, probably on is something. So
I'm with you on the personality part of it. And look,
I don't spend any time out there. It's one of
the few places I haven't been. I haven't spent a
ton of time. But it is crazy that you've had
back to back guys think so highly of themselves they
(41:24):
basically hold their franchises hostage. And that's what we've had. Yeah,
I mean, what's interesting is the point you made I
also used on the air, but I didn't use it
in our discussion five minutes ago, which is, with no owner,
you are the most powerful person. You're much more powerful.
You know. It's like what's happened to college basketball and
football coaches. You're the highest paid state employee with no owner.
(41:47):
Aaron is by far and away the richest most powerful
person in the organization. I mean, Matt Stafford, his career
earnings are less than Stan Cronkie will make you know
over a weekend between his ownership of his teams, like
and you you know, as powerful as Belichick is, Bob
Kraft is like Trade Garoppolo. Okay, like you do far
(42:08):
An Aaron. One of the few times I believe too
in the history of this relationship in New England twenty
years nowhere where Craft got his way because of Tom.
So no I'm agreeing with you. I'm just saying that
that's how rare that was though in that in that time,
I don't think that's happened very often with those two
(42:39):
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you compelling, real life adoption stories told by the families
that live them, with commentary from experts. Visit adopt us
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