July 2, 2024 • 43 mins
More on why Klay Thompson decided to go to the Mavericks instead of the Lakers
Thoughts which conference has improved the most in the NBA
Guest: Sam Amick
#douggottliebshow
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
What up? Welcome in, This is the Herd. Wherever you
may be and how are you may be making us
part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug gottli
In for Colin Cowherd. I hope you're having an absolutely
spectacular Fourth of July week. You know, it's interesting so
(00:51):
many lessons in my life I have learned from athletes
as to what not to do us like that, like
when Len Bias died, Like every basketball player I know
that was a kid then knew that, like do not
(01:14):
do cocaine. Ever, not that you needed somebody to say.
I mean, this is in the eighties and the Nancy
Reagan's just Say No campaign was going on, But if
you needed to know what it was really like, you know,
he's the number two pick of the draft and it
doesn't matter the reality of stories then as to what
(01:35):
really happened, but it does matter how it was relayed,
and it was related as he did cocaine. And here's
this incredible athlete, incredible figure, and now he's dead. And
then when I was a freshman in high school, I
remember my high school coach at the time, Tom McCluskey
mcclusk just retired. What a great guy and a great coach.
(02:00):
He called us in and said men. Later on today,
Magic Johnson's gon announced he has HIV. HIV leads to AIDS.
Thankfully Magic never contracted AIDS out of it. But the
point was that was what I learned about save sex
right and save sex. I don't know about you guys,
(02:20):
but JPP is the guy who I point to anytime
I think about getting fireworks on Fourth of July. I
think the JPP, and I'm like, yeah, I don't cause
I'm a twelve year old. When it comes to blowing
stuff up, I love it. Maybe it comes from not
having that the ability to buy fireworks when I was
(02:42):
a kid. Like if you're in Orange County, if you're
in southern California, most people know. I don't know if
it's because of fire danger or whatever. But you've never
really been able to buy any of the cool fireworks.
So when I've been places like Oklahoma and like Connecticut
where you can, I've always kind of geeked out and
liked him. Now once I had kids, I was like, yeah,
I don't want something to happen to them. And then
(03:03):
when JPP blew off was it two of his fingers?
That was like lesson learned. That was like lesson learned.
It's interesting, like the things in life that resonate to me,
somebody of them might draw back on on athletes and
what they've done and how it how it shapes my
(03:25):
view of them. Let's get to what continues to be
really kind of the topic of the day. It's Klay
Thompson is a first ballot Hall of Famer. What an
amazing career he's had. And the career is not over
because he signed with the Dallas Mavericks. But this is
a hard one, right, He's a splash brother. How do
(03:46):
you separate brothers? That's exactly what the Warriors said. The
Warriors they basically did, on a different scale in a
different time, what the Saint Louis Cardinals did with Albert
Poohols when he left for the Angels, which was they
made him an offer, and even though the Marlins blew
(04:06):
everybody out of the water with their offer and then
the Angels did as well, they stuck that offer, knowing
that they wanted say, we offered him a substantial contract.
A substantial I think it was a six year deal,
was like the same deal before the season as it
was after the season. They tacked on three years. There
were option years, but they knew about the lifespan on him.
(04:27):
That contract would have been perfect, but they knew Albert
Pooholts would take a different contract and the big you know,
maybe not the biggest, but a bigger number one that
started with a three. So they did just enough so
that they can say, hey, it's not like we didn't
want him back. We just didn't want him back at
that ridiculous price. And they were right because of it. Well,
(04:52):
the Warriors, I don't think they'll win a World Series
or NBA Finals without him, But it was we made
an offer to Clay, he's just gonna go get a
bigger offer. And oh yeah, by the way, they made
a trade, so it's really a sign and trade in
order to make it allow him ability to make a
little bit more money and oh yeah, by the way,
it hurt them a little bit less and now they're
(05:14):
out of the luxury tax threshold. But those decisions aren't
easy for an all time great player, who's won you
all those championships, who's fought through injury, who's battled back,
been a two way player, sacrifice some in the spotlight
for Steph Curry, put up with some of the Draymond
(05:35):
stuff like that. Those things are not easy to part
company with a guy who's meant that much to you.
But maybe maybe the bigger story is what he didn't choose.
What he didn't choose. I mean, you even hear the reverence.
And look, Dan Hurley could have been the Lakers new
(06:00):
head coach, but the Lakers they got to do things
the Lakers' way. Like did they offer him more money
than they've ever paid a head coach. Yes, But if
you look back on that timeline of that week, right
to start the week, it was Dan Hurley is now
a candidate and they want to bring him in, And
then there was a leak of he's expected to get
(06:22):
offered a deal of one hundred million dollars and then
the deal comes in at seventy million dollars, and the
Lakers wanted to help pick his staff. So Dan Hurley,
who got on a plane with his wife, thought about
leaving everything he could behind and an amazing back to
(06:43):
back national championship program for the Lakers because it's the Lakers,
and he, of course him and his agent put it
out there, and one hundredllion dollars, they end up thirty
million short. Oh and now he's short on money. But
and you want to pick my staff, I'm gonna pass
on the pass. So I don't know if that's what
(07:06):
it's about or kind of this circus that's been created
based upon the Bronnie James draft pick. There's nothing wrong
with signing Bronnie James, nothing wrong, nothing wrong with him
being in the G League. I mean, look, if you
think this hasn't happened before, did you know Dwayne Wade
bought the G League team in Salt Lake City? And
(07:27):
did you know that his son played for that G
League team, who he didn't play in college, played in
the G League and they got pummeled. And I think
he stepped away from basketball. That's part of the story here,
is like I think I think Summer League could be
rough on Bronnie James. I just do like, remember Wemby
(07:49):
last year, just got off the plane in game one?
Who it was rough? Game two was like, Okay, he
figured out. But but Bronnie's not Wemby. Brownie's just a nice, good,
solid player who's played a little bit of college basketball.
Like I mean, all those games are televised, and he
(08:10):
signed a multi year contract with the Lakers and the
second round pick. Okay, the point is that you're Klay
Thompson and you sit there and go like, hm, I
could go to La where I've always dreamed of playing.
It's the Lakers. My dad played for the Lakers. What
better way to finish my career than to play with
Lebron James and Anthony Davis and just shoot threes and
(08:33):
play defense, give ourselves a chance to win another NBA championship.
My dad's calling the games I get to. I could
live in Orange County, where I live in the offseason,
like this thing is a rap, and instead you go
to Dallas. Yeah, because Dallas wants to do one thing.
(08:54):
They want to win an NBA championship. Their process is
how do we get from getting to an NBA Finals
and being kind of a surprising team too. Now, how
do we win a championship? It's not about state income tax?
Stop it, stop it. Like anyone who says the state
(09:15):
income tax thing, just look up what the property taxes
are and how it's affected in Texas. It's actually very
very difficult for many people. I have friends that moved
to Austin and there with every year they get a bigger,
bigger tax bill and it's super high. Right. Yeah, they
don't get you with the state income tax. And there's
ways in which you can duck and dive and do
some stuff and rent a place if you want. I
(09:37):
got it. The point is that the government's going to
get theirs regardless of when you're in California or timbucktoo.
And oh yeah, by the way, if you're making if
you've made one hundred and fifty million dollars and you
have a place that can see the water, there's no
way you can tell me, you know, try and talk
me into the idea that living in Dallas saving you
(09:57):
money something. There's a reason it costs more money because
it's worth it. But this is it's damning towards the Lakers.
Here's Mark Stein, who joined us earlier in the show,
talking about why Clay picked the MAVs over the Lakers.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
I think it's important to Klay Thompson after the last
couple of seasons. You know, he wants to show everyone
that he can still be a key contributor to a
good team. And I think the MAVs sold him on
there is a huge role for him in Dallas, playing
(10:38):
off of Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving, and I just
think that's really what swayed him. The MAVs have had
just a dreadful free agent history. They never get the
guys in free agency. So to be able to win
a faith off with the Lakers, to get a commitment
from Clay Thompson, you can imagine how happy people are
(10:59):
in Dallas right now, How happy Maps fans are.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Oh, no question, it's not just that they got Klay Thompson.
They got Klay Thompson when all signs said, hey, you
should be going to the Lakers, and he goes to
the Mavericks. Here's Mike marxcuse me talking about where the
Lakers go from here.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Their options are so limited and they've also got a
clock kicking because you know, Lebron James Team USA camp
is starting just in a few days this weekend, and
Lebron's gonna want to have his deal done by then.
He's not gonna want to practice with Team USA and start.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
Getting ready for the Olympics without assigned contracts. You know,
there's been all the talk about Lebron's willingness to take
a pay cut, but that was only if they were
getting a James harden A Quay Thompson. Now, I think
DeMar Derozen still lands in that group, and DeMar Derozen
is still out there, but I think there is a
(11:58):
question of how Damar would fit. Is Damar really willing
to take you know, he would have to take a
significant pay cut from where he is where he's been
with the Bulls for the last few seasons.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
But look, DeMar Derozen is also a Southern Californian. The
options for him appear to be somewhat limited in free agency.
You know, would he be willing to join the Lakers
for a lot less than he's been making with the Bulls.
I'm not so sure on that.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah. I mean, now we're working our way back to
DeMar de Rosen, which is interesting because DeMar de Rosen
was the guy that Rob Polinka and Buddy Heal were
the guys that Rob Blinka wanted to bring in a
couple of years ago when Lebron said no, no, no,
We're gonna go get Russell westbrook In. That didn't work,
And it makes sense for Klay Thompson to sit there
and go like, Okay, well, Russell westbrook He didn't enjoy
(12:53):
his experience like he had the brownny thing. That's weird.
You know, that's super super weird. Mm. You know, like
Lebron doesn't play much defense anymore, but does demand the
basketball and then it's like Anthony Davis's team, and yeah,
(13:14):
I can shoot, but I just I'm just gonna go
to a place where it's just about winning. It's just
about winning. I can still extract a little bit of
revenge on the Lakers and a little bit of revenge
on the Golden State Warriors, and I'm surrounded by a
really good team that that I fit with. But I
just I don't think we can undersell the magnitude of
(13:39):
that type of decision to shun the Lakers. It's and
we've seen it before, right, we saw Paul George and
Kawhi Leonard. They went. They went to the Clippers. At
least they stayed in Los Angeles, being Southern California guys.
But for Clay again grew up in Southern California. Dad
played for the Lakers. Dad covers the Lakers who didn't
(14:01):
dream of playing with those with the Kobe teams or
the Shaq and Kobe teams. Whatever to say, Nah, good
to Dallas. If that's not a sign of the perception
being a negative one in the league, I don't really
know what else is, because one would think, you're like, wait,
(14:21):
I can play with Lebron and he needs a guys.
He loves guys to play defense and shoot threes, and
I could be a Laker. And they offered more money.
They offered more money than Dallas that offer. It was
not a financial decision. This was a he did not
want to play with that group. He did not want
to play with that group. Doug Gottliebin for Colin is
(14:44):
the Herd on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Sam AM's gonna join us upcoming next? Am I wrong?
But the triumvirent of Nick's Celtics Sixers kind of feels
like the East is back. That's texting the Hurt.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Doug Gollibin for Collins The Herd Fox Sports Radio, iHeartRadio app.
And as we're creeping closer and closer to Team USA
getting together, creeping closer and closer to an NBA summer
league season, we are right in the heart of free
agency season, and a lot of interesting things have been
going on, probably most notably Paul George goes to the
(15:29):
seventy six ers, but in terms of historically Clay Thompson
leaving the Warriors choosing the Mavericks over the Lakers is
also interesting. Sam Amy joins us here in The Hurt,
and he's a senior NBA writer for The Athletic. Why
do you think Clay chose the mouths of the Lakers?
Speaker 6 (15:49):
So I'm dying and thank you for having me. I
appreciate it dying to hear from Clay at some point,
you know, because I'd be lying if I, you know,
said a total Clay already on it. I mean, you
look at the basketball fit and obviously the way he
can stretch the floor what the MAVs did last year
makes a lot of sense. As a side note, you know,
(16:10):
he was on the feet of a World Cup team
in twenty fourteen. I think it was with Kyrie back
in the day when they were in Spain. It's funny
because we always focused on he and Steph bonding at
that point. But you know, he's got a relationship with
Kyrie and certainly sees what the MAVs are doing. But
you had so many personal connections to the Lakers situation,
(16:31):
from his father being around there, to the history with
the family and his own childhood you know, in the area,
and even his affinity for boats and water and coastal cities.
So I'm waiting to hear at some point here. You know,
what Clay says about why you made.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
To pick does feel like a little bit of indictment
on what's going on in LA, doesn't it.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
Yeah, it's not great, especially because I still think it's
a little downplayed. You know, Lebron certainly is headed back
and they're going to have some sibilance of a Lakers squad,
you know, ready for next year. But going into the draft.
You know I wrote this last week is you know
Lebron and Abe really wanted the Lakers to go all
in and to put their three first first round picks
(17:15):
on the table and go after as de Jonte Murray
or somebody like that. And and you know, we've seen
this the last four or five years with not only
Lebron though with Anthony Davis and his relationship with the
franchise where they listen to him sometimes they don't listen
to him others and it felt like Rob Palinka JJ
Riddick were going the other way, leaning into development, holding
(17:38):
on to Austin Reeves, kind of treating him like he
was untouchable. And you know now they yeah, they just
keep kind of swinging and missing on different guys that
are within reach. So we'll see if they can pull
something off here.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Okay, so what about what about the Clippers and the
decision to uh to kind of punt on Paul George.
They didn't want to give him that fourth year. They
signed Kawhi before they signed him, so he leaves what
what the Clippers are moving into the end to it Dome.
This was supposed to be, Hey, we're going to take
(18:14):
over the city of Champions, which is which is Englewood,
which used to be home to the Lakers when they
played at the Forum. What now for the Clippers.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
Yeah, I mean, it's not the sexy storyline that Steve
Bomber was hoping for. And you know, it feels to
me like there was a bit of a communication breakdown,
maybe even amongst the players themselves, because if you go
back to what Kawhi signed his extension three years I
think one hundred and fifty three, one hundred and fifty
million in that neighborhood, you know, he publicly said that
(18:45):
he expected Paul to be back and James to be back,
and it seemed like there was no stress around the
situation at all. But now what has become clear is,
you know, a couple of things. For one, Paul never
agreed to take a deal that is, you know, that
much below what was available to him, and the Clippers
were obviously incredibly committed to getting away from the second
(19:08):
Apron luxury tax. That really again, this is not the
most compelling radio or storytelling, but like the luxury taxes,
it's just front and center in this NBA offseason where
it is absolutely guiding everything that teams do, and the
Clippers didn't want to be handcuffed with their roster for
the foreseeable future, and that's why they wouldn't budge and
(19:30):
give Paul the deal that he wanted. And I do
understand the logic because you got three aging stars, no
ability to build around them because of all the restrictions
that would have come with where they'd be at from
a payroll standpoint. But it feels like Kawhi and Paul
in particular, like, you know, like somebody didn't tell the
(19:50):
other what the plan was here, because one guy's still
there and one guy's does.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
It should be a shock though, that Kawhi Leonard didn't
communicate with somebody on that's like the least it's like
the least surprising thing.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
Ever. The best part is I just saw a picture
of him. I think he was in Costa Rica.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Costa Rica, Yeah, and it's.
Speaker 6 (20:11):
Just like not a care in the world. I don't
think he was losing sleep over what happened with the
Clippers roster. He's obviously an incredibly different guy, one of one,
if you will, but yes, not the most communicative.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Am I crazy? But look, I understand the West is
really going to be uh in the Midwest out right, Dallas,
Oklahoma City, Minnesota, those teams even we'll see what we'll
get to Denver in a second. But but for the
for the NBA to have Boston, the Knicks and the
(20:44):
Sixers as one a champion and two others that are
right there, you know, in a in a dead heat
for second best team in the East, like kind of
impressive for the NBA and feels like really really good
news for the short term future of the NBA.
Speaker 6 (21:02):
Yeah, no, I agree with that. I mean, we have
this parody era where is it what six champions in
a row now, where you know, no, no back to
backs and a different champ every year, And that part
doesn't really lend itself to like I think fan engagement
where I think fans kind of like that, not necessarily dynasties,
(21:23):
but some consistency. But if you counter by having a
loaded East with big time markets and big time cities,
and I throw Milwaukee in there too, it's not a
big city. But I do actually think that Giannis and
Dan Lillard and year number two are worth watching. And
Dame has been open about how he wasn't really ready
(21:43):
to go last year so maybe they find a way
to make that work. The East has got a ton
of star power.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
You know.
Speaker 6 (21:50):
The only qualifier that I would put on Philly and
I love the Paul George move, is that we just
we always get reminded that that it's not you know,
on paper, you have Phoenix and Milwaukee last year has
great examples of teams that just weren't as good as
we thought they were going to be. So we'll see
how that fits. But I like what the Knicks did.
The Nova Knicks approach is wild, and Boston obviously at
(22:12):
the top of the mountain, so it should be fun.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Sam A makes our Guests, NBA scene writer for The Athletic,
He joins us. Okay, So Donovan Mitchell re signs a
three year extension to stay in Cleveland. It seems pretty obviously.
People I've talked to is like, he don't want play
for Bigger Staff anymore. Bigger Staff's gone. All these moves,
all the things they've done are basically to keep him.
Does feel like they learned a little bit from the
Lebron era that they did everything to keep Donovan Mitchell.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
I would agree. I would agree, and as you know,
someone who's covered the league for a minute. I find
it so interesting to see these ripple effects and I
think you make a great point there, like lessons from Lebron,
if you will. Another example that comes to mind is
the Pacers and the way they've handled Tyrese Halliburton his
lessons from Paul George and so I do think there's
(23:01):
kind of a through line there. And I know the
Cavs listen, they they they are trying to forge an identity, uh,
you know, elite identity that does not involve Lebron, James
and Donovan. If he ultimately wound up being you know,
kind of a cup of coffee star for them and
was on his way to another market, then that would
(23:22):
have been something that you know, just was a failed project.
But it seems like they're finding a way to keep
him around. He signs a three year deal because he's
you know, trying to light it up to get his
twenty nine year old max down the road, which is fine,
that makes sense. But you know, we'll see what they
do with Darius Darland because the reporting coming into the
(23:42):
summer was that that he wasn't looking to stick around.
If if that was going to be the backcourt so
that's kind of the next phase here. But I like
the Atkinson hire and and buy large. They're they're kind
of keeping that group together and doing good work.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
The Suns. You know, there was some talk of they
stay pat.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
Yeah, one hundred percent. It seems like it's just, you know,
no alternatives unless I mean, you blow it up then
I mean then you you've kind of waved the white
flag pretty quickly after coming in like Gangbusters the way
Matt Isba did. He bought the team. It doesn't really
matter now, but it's just a fact he bought the team,
(24:25):
and he and and he kind of had that you know,
new owner. Iightis if you will where you take over
for the GM, take over for everybody and make the moves.
And they were splashy and they've got some future Hall
of Famers on the squad, but they obviously didn't put
it together last year. I don't see it changing, you know.
(24:46):
I wrote a little bit the other day about Houston
in particular and their reported interest in Kevin Durant, And
you know what I was told from their side was that, no,
it's actually not really about Kevin. It's if they want
to give up Devin Booker then us talk because you
know his timeline fits with what the Rockets are doing.
But it's just so prohibitive to have those contracts, all
(25:10):
three of them, because you could make a choice like
moving on from Devin and getting a massive return, But
then you know you still got the two guys. You know,
it's it's pretty hard to pivot down a rebuilding type
of road. I think they're going to just kind of
have to cross their fingers and hope that you two,
with Mike Glutenholzer in the building is going to be
(25:32):
the answer, because that's the other thing. You can't hire.
Excuse me, you can't hire Bud and then pivot. I mean,
you hire Mike Glutenholzer. You're you're trying to fix what
was broken last year.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yep, yep. Okay, what about the Warriors? What now?
Speaker 6 (25:48):
Crazy times? You know on base near Sacramento, grew up
in the Bay, have a good pulse on their fan base.
They are not happy right now there. You know that
the end has finally arrived. Obviously, still have Steph, You've
got Draymond, You've got different possibilities out there. The Lorry
Markinings of the World, maybe Tomarbo Rosen, But the Clay
(26:10):
thing is an absolute gut punch to the region. The
guy was. He was nothing short of a legend. And
it's what strikes me, as we said here, like thirty
six hours or so after you know he made his choice,
is that last couple of years there was just NonStop
screwediny about he wasn't the guy that he had been before.
(26:33):
And I get all that, and he'd be frustrated behind
the scenes and kind of wrestling with his own basketball mortality.
But my goodness, the second he's gone, there's a bit
of a reckoning, I think when it comes to fans
facing the reality of what it means for him to
leave the Bay, because that really wasn't supposed to happen.
It was supposed to be these guys finishing together and unfortunately,
(26:57):
really that the injuries Like that's the for me, that's
the beginning and the end of the story. Like, are
there personal dynamics involved that played the part? Absolutely, but
it's all. It all starts with him losing two years
in his prime and really never being able to get
over that and not liking the way that he was
(27:18):
treated as a result of that, and the impact on
his market and things of that nature. So that to
me is why he's in Dallas.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Now, Yeah, I don't I don't think there's I don't
think there's any any doubt, any doubt at all. Last thing,
the Olympic team. What happens if this group doesn't win?
Speaker 6 (27:40):
I said, I mean, that's gonna be, That's gonna be,
you know, egg on the face of the highest order.
I guess I don't see it happening. I know international
competition has gotten a whole lot better.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
It's a different sport. It's a different sport. He's just
a different sport.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
This is let me throw it to you, thug, like
the these are the old heads who have done this before.
Does that matter to you or not?
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yes, it does matter, but it's still again, it's a
different sport. And remember when they have done it before. Right,
there was the year Kobe Bryant bailed him out against Spain.
They don't beat Spain. They probably don't beat Spain if
Kobe is not on that team. Kevin Durant bailed them,
has bailed him out in previous years as well. Right,
at some point in time, like do they have the
guy who can break glass in case emergency and just
(28:28):
win games on his own. I don't know. I don't
know what the answer is to that.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Well, as a subplot, I just was actually talking to
somebody about this today. The Kyrie Irving subplot I find
interesting because I'm not trying to say he's the ultimate,
you know, break last guy, but you know, I think
Kyrie and his ability to rehabilitate his basketball image more
(28:53):
more quickly than people anticipated as now made it. So
if they do to your point, let's say they fall
flat and they don't get the gold, I think it's
fair to bring up the choice to a not have
a tryout like they would in the past, which Kyrie
is highlighted. Uh, and then be you know, if if
you look at a Kyrie versus the Kyrie's Halliburton, there's
(29:14):
some of the other guys who did make the squad.
You want a guy who can get you a bucket
and save you a few times, that's Kyrie.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah. Yeah, and obviously more experienced at the at the
highest level of competition could be Fasting Sam great stuff
as always, can't wait to read more and listen to
more of your work. Appreciate you being our guest in
the hurt.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
You got it, Thank you, Doug.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
That's Sam Amic from the Athletic Let's get to rye
music with the news.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
No, no turns. This is the herd Line news.
Speaker 7 (29:46):
All right, Doug. Let's unfortunately go to some not so
great news for fans of United States men's national soccer team.
An incredibly disappointing result for or them losing to as
you said, what was it and and failing to advance
(30:09):
past the group stage of Copa America.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I'm always, I'm always, I'm sorry to interrupt. We do
that though, soccer more than anything, right, Like we don't
call it a pitch anywhere else, Like we use our
American lexicon and everything, and then soccer all of a sudden,
we'll use the We'll use the born legs con and
the pitchside, the kit and the kit. Yeah, the kids,
(30:33):
you're you're here.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Yeah, anyway, all right, incredibly disappointing, Most notably people pointing
out the fact that there was a highly controversial off
sides non call on the different the difference making goal
for Uruguay and uh it went to review. Now here's
(30:57):
where things get interesting. Most people were or a completely
caught off guard as to how this went to video
review and it was still not overturned. The difference that
they're being pointed out by this, according to ESPN, is
basically there are two different technologies that are used because
(31:19):
these are two separate tournaments. So in the Euros right now,
they have a more advanced technology which can give a
more exact result of the video review based off of
on sides, not on sides, COPA America is still using
a slightly older, legacy version of this technology, which essentially
(31:44):
means if they don't have the right camera angle, they
make an assumption on where they think the offside line is,
and then they thought that because the evidence wasn't indisputable enough,
they give the advantage to the attacking team, which is
why the goal was upheld.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
If anyone was.
Speaker 7 (32:01):
Watching the Euros earlier today, the Netherlands, who went on
to win convincingly so this was far less controversial, did
have a goal taken away because of offsides, and it
was a far far narrower margin compared to last night's
United States Uruguay competition.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
So what do I?
Speaker 7 (32:22):
Yes, however, yes there they did. They did, but.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Which which is the exact opposite intent of replay replays
intense is get it right correct, and they didn't get
it right, and then we lose and look could ease
a little bit of tie. We don't know how the
rest of the match goes. And not for that controversial goal,
you know, not for the red card in the previous match,
you know we got we got a full full roster
of players. So there's sure there's some other things.
Speaker 7 (32:47):
But the general thought though, as you pointed out earlier
with what you were saying about.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Part of the coach. But also I've never seen anything
like it. I've never seen it. There's no other play
it exists where you like, fire the coach. Every loss
that ever happens in soccer, it's fired the coach. Yes,
and again I'm not saying coaching doesn't matter. I'm a
head coach in college. I think coaching matters a ton
(33:15):
a ton. You know, people think the coach doesn't matter
in the NBA, Like that's funny. The same guy has
end up keep winning right and coaching and and finding
the fit for coaches is a is a gigantic It's
like Mike Budenolzer. I don't know how that works. I
don't know how that works in in in Phoenix. But
you know, like Darvin Ham got fired because he was
(33:37):
a terrible fit for Lebron James. Lebron James wants to
be once a coach that's super prepared, over prepared. That
was Frank, and Frank didn't work with Kevin Durant and
and those guys because Kevin Durrant's not really a prep guy.
He's like, this is squat hoop. Darvinham would have been
better off with the Suns. Maybe not a good fit
for Lebron because he was Darvin was late to his
(33:59):
own So but the point is, I'm not here to
dispute that coaching matters. But literally, you can set your
watch to it. If our US men's national soccer team loses,
social media and traditional media will say every single time.
Speaker 7 (34:18):
All right, we'll wrap up with this from Football to
Football American version, The Bengals are looking for Joe Burrow
to bounce back and stay healthy this season. Most people
would agree when Burrow is upright, probably a top five
quarterback in the league, but Burrow himself disagrees. In fact,
he hates lists and rankings. Here's what he told Complex Sports.
(34:39):
I don't like lists because I feel like it takes
away from certain people's accomplishments, and there's just not really
a top five all time, and there's not even really
a top five in the game right now. It's something
that can just sort of change from week to week. Personally,
I love Joey What's up?
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Who said that?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Joe Burrow?
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I kind of the lists are meant for clicks.
Speaker 7 (35:02):
Sure, you know, I agree, I agree in like the
all time discussion. I mean, I think there's a general
idea of who we thinks all time. But really you
could side with him in terms of the eras to
eras comparison.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
It's impossible the top.
Speaker 7 (35:17):
Five in the league I would disagree with. I don't
know if you always want to set the number at five.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
But yeah, most people know that. Just I like the
Tiers thing. Doesn't Mike Sando do the Tears thing every year? Yes? Yes, yeah,
I like the Tears. One shout out to Mike. I
like the Tears.
Speaker 7 (35:33):
Yeah, there's there's a general cutoff to where you're like,
you got Mahomes, who's his own thing. Then you have
the Joe Burrows, the Josh Allens. You know, we'll see
what where Aaron Rodgers is at coming off the injury.
And then after that there's another tier. So like you
have those guys who are the upper upper elite, Lamar Jackson,
you can go ahead and put him in there as well.
Obviously two times.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Put him in that second tier. He can't put him in that
second tier. Okay, the other ones have all done in
the playoffs. Sure, I would put Lamar Jackson in that
that next tier. Guys have been great regular season quarterbacks.
He had to be great playoff quarterbacks. Sir Mahomes is
a tier under himself because he erects all the check marks.
He has youth, and then he's performed at his best
(36:14):
when his best is called upon, right, and then you
I would put Josh Allen even though he hasn't got
to do Super Bowl. I mean, like, look the win
what should have been a win thirteen seconds in Kansas City, Like, dude,
you can't play any better and he played that day, yeah,
and he played. He played pretty well this year too.
So I would put Burrow in that second tier. I
(36:35):
would not put Lamar in it, even though his regular
season you put him in any second. And then like
Herbert has like all the talent, but he yet to
put together in the one one playoff game, Trevor Lawrence.
Two playoff games put them in that third tier. We
kind of go on the league and the question is
what do you do with with d? But yes, I
actually agree with with Burrow in that there's not necessarily
(36:57):
top five. It can be fluid. In addition to which
it's stupid expare arabs and I liked your idea you
don't always have to have five when you're doing your list.
And that's Ryan's a good news.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
heard Line news.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
All right, there's a debate brewing in Philadelphia about Jared McCain,
the first round draft pick, and his use of TikTok
Well's settle. That debate part of our Best for Last
next to the Herd.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Eastern non a em Pacific.
Speaker 8 (37:32):
Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben
Maller with me and a lot to have you join
us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking what in
God's name is the Fifth Hour. I'll tell you it's
a spin off of it. Ben Maler show. A could
hit overnights on FSR. Why should you listen picture if
you will a world will? We chat with captains of
industry in media, sports and more every week explore some
(37:54):
amazing facts about human nature and more. Listen to the
fifth Hour with Ben Maller on the iHeartRadio app, apple
Pot Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Welcome man, Doug Gottliebin for Collins. I heard Fox Sports Radio,
iHeartRadio app. Hope you're getting ready for a great Fourth
of July weekend. We're doing Lake Beach Mountains, just chilling
at home in the Cold de Sac. Right in the
Cold de Sac. Is that's really kind of mailing it in.
Let's just kind of be honest, just kind of mailing
it in. But we did have something fun to end
(38:21):
up with, because who doesn't like to talk about TikTok
and the NBA. Part of our Best for Last.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
It's almost the end of the show, but that doesn't
mean we're phoning it in. Nope, we grind it the
very last segment. It's time for Best for Last.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
So just again, this is a great discussion with no
one really making any sort of salient points that they know.
It's it's really about whether or not, whether or not
it's going to affect his season, his career. Jared McCain
is not only was not only a star, a duke
and a star growing up in southern California McDonald's America,
(38:58):
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, but also Jared McCain
is a TikTok star. Right. He has TikTok dance videos.
Here's Paul George who Paul George said quote his personality
stands out more than anything on his podcast. He's got
a personally like personality like I'm me, I'm gonna do me.
(39:21):
The fact that he don't give an f that he
paints his nails and what people say about them. He
could probably and he could be himself and go hoop,
you can call him anything. At this point. He's got
a toughness about him too, so I don't think he
gives a blank all that is true. I would also
point out that, like Paul, you haven't played a game
(39:41):
with Jared McCain. Maybe you've worked out with him in
the summer being in southern California, but that would be
that that would be about it. But it's just more
the if you're the Sixers, Do you reiin in the
TikTok thing? Because people on social media or even fans
will want to make fun of the tiktoks. My point
(40:02):
is and has always been, like, you do have to
let people be themselves and just understand what comes with it.
Nobody cares. You can make shots and get stops, nobody cares.
Don't care, it becomes it becomes cute and clever. And
my point is always like, look, if he's not out
smoking and drinking and he spends all his time in
(40:23):
the gym and he makes tiktoks in the gym, like,
what do I care about? I don't know my crazy
Ryan that it does feel. Do I want him in
the middle of a huddle, you know, or he gets
taken out of a game doing a TikTok video? No, no,
But if he's just hanging around the gym at all
hours and he does a TikTok video, I don't think
(40:43):
it's really the worst thing of all time. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (40:45):
It sort of reminds me of sort of a Juju
Smith Schuster situation in the NFL, to where it was
like when he was productive, people were like, oh, look
at him, He's like kind of like a TikTok guy,
and it's led to endorsements, and then as soon as
like the production falls off or something goes a little sideways,
it immediately becomes well, I mean, would that have happened
(41:07):
if he wasn't so worried about Tiktoks? And so it
kind of looks like a matter of convenience that you
will use that as a reason for justification more so
than it may actually be a direct result of why
he might not be succeeding in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (41:22):
I mean, look, if he turns out to not be
a particularly productive player and the reports, the reports come
out that he's late for practice because he's filming tiktoks, Okay,
that's clearly a problem. But I have very I have
my doubts that that's what's actually going to end up
being the case.
Speaker 9 (41:38):
See, my thing is, my thing is it's like they're
going for a championship this year, right, like this is
just another distraction. And look, I have kids, young kids,
and they know him more for TikTok than they do
for his what he does, what he did at Duke.
But I guess my whole thing is, like, is he
like Doug, You've got your coach now right. If your
players are spending more time doing TikTok rehearsals been watching
(42:01):
game film, would that bother you?
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Well, they're not watching game film. But like, there's twenty
four hours in a day, Like you can't. I can't
manage all twenty four hours in a day. Are you
doing what we're supposed to do it? Like this whole idea,
if you're working really hard enough, you can go, you know,
on an individual workout an hour twice in a day.
If we're doing a practice, you can go, you know,
two hours in a practice, maybe two and a half
(42:25):
and then get you know, get a half hour, forty
five minutes of other shots. You know, plus you have
weight training whatever. But you know, most most kids are
taking online classes, honest to god. Like if you if
if fifteen to thirty minutes out of your day are
spent making a TikTok video, I don't care. I just don't.
I just don't. Like you don't major in the minors.
Speaker 9 (42:43):
I mean the kids, the kids who are putting out
these TikTok video like the professionals, they spend their whole
day doing this, like that's their whole day is doing
this like it.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
If it starts to affect not just your performance but
your preparation, absolutely, then you shut it down. But you know,
like we kind of oversell how much athletes grind in there,
Like most most professional athletes have a scheduled nap in
their day every day. Let's not act like that we're
doing the real hard labor. Just not. I've done manual
(43:16):
labor twice in my life. No thanks, I would much
prefer to be a professional basketball player doing TikTok videos,
which may take up an hour of my time. That's
the best for last. All Right, that's it for this
edition of The Herd. Make sure you download the podcast
or download the podcast to my show, The Doug Gottlieb Show,
which of course also rolls on Fox Sports Trading in
(43:37):
the iHeartRadio app
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
What up? Welcome in, This is the Herd. Wherever you
may be and how are you may be making us
part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug gottli
In for Colin Cowherd. I hope you're having an absolutely
spectacular Fourth of July week. You know, it's interesting so
(00:51):
many lessons in my life I have learned from athletes
as to what not to do us like that, like
when Len Bias died, Like every basketball player I know
that was a kid then knew that, like do not
(01:14):
do cocaine. Ever, not that you needed somebody to say.
I mean, this is in the eighties and the Nancy
Reagan's just Say No campaign was going on, But if
you needed to know what it was really like, you know,
he's the number two pick of the draft and it
doesn't matter the reality of stories then as to what
(01:35):
really happened, but it does matter how it was relayed,
and it was related as he did cocaine. And here's
this incredible athlete, incredible figure, and now he's dead. And
then when I was a freshman in high school, I
remember my high school coach at the time, Tom McCluskey
mcclusk just retired. What a great guy and a great coach.
(02:00):
He called us in and said men. Later on today,
Magic Johnson's gon announced he has HIV. HIV leads to AIDS.
Thankfully Magic never contracted AIDS out of it. But the
point was that was what I learned about save sex
right and save sex. I don't know about you guys,
(02:20):
but JPP is the guy who I point to anytime
I think about getting fireworks on Fourth of July. I
think the JPP, and I'm like, yeah, I don't cause
I'm a twelve year old. When it comes to blowing
stuff up, I love it. Maybe it comes from not
having that the ability to buy fireworks when I was
(02:42):
a kid. Like if you're in Orange County, if you're
in southern California, most people know. I don't know if
it's because of fire danger or whatever. But you've never
really been able to buy any of the cool fireworks.
So when I've been places like Oklahoma and like Connecticut
where you can, I've always kind of geeked out and
liked him. Now once I had kids, I was like, yeah,
I don't want something to happen to them. And then
(03:03):
when JPP blew off was it two of his fingers?
That was like lesson learned. That was like lesson learned.
It's interesting, like the things in life that resonate to me,
somebody of them might draw back on on athletes and
what they've done and how it how it shapes my
(03:25):
view of them. Let's get to what continues to be
really kind of the topic of the day. It's Klay
Thompson is a first ballot Hall of Famer. What an
amazing career he's had. And the career is not over
because he signed with the Dallas Mavericks. But this is
a hard one, right, He's a splash brother. How do
(03:46):
you separate brothers? That's exactly what the Warriors said. The
Warriors they basically did, on a different scale in a
different time, what the Saint Louis Cardinals did with Albert
Poohols when he left for the Angels, which was they
made him an offer, and even though the Marlins blew
(04:06):
everybody out of the water with their offer and then
the Angels did as well, they stuck that offer, knowing
that they wanted say, we offered him a substantial contract.
A substantial I think it was a six year deal,
was like the same deal before the season as it
was after the season. They tacked on three years. There
were option years, but they knew about the lifespan on him.
(04:27):
That contract would have been perfect, but they knew Albert
Pooholts would take a different contract and the big you know,
maybe not the biggest, but a bigger number one that
started with a three. So they did just enough so
that they can say, hey, it's not like we didn't
want him back. We just didn't want him back at
that ridiculous price. And they were right because of it. Well,
(04:52):
the Warriors, I don't think they'll win a World Series
or NBA Finals without him, But it was we made
an offer to Clay, he's just gonna go get a
bigger offer. And oh yeah, by the way, they made
a trade, so it's really a sign and trade in
order to make it allow him ability to make a
little bit more money and oh yeah, by the way,
it hurt them a little bit less and now they're
(05:14):
out of the luxury tax threshold. But those decisions aren't
easy for an all time great player, who's won you
all those championships, who's fought through injury, who's battled back,
been a two way player, sacrifice some in the spotlight
for Steph Curry, put up with some of the Draymond
(05:35):
stuff like that. Those things are not easy to part
company with a guy who's meant that much to you.
But maybe maybe the bigger story is what he didn't choose.
What he didn't choose. I mean, you even hear the reverence.
And look, Dan Hurley could have been the Lakers new
(06:00):
head coach, but the Lakers they got to do things
the Lakers' way. Like did they offer him more money
than they've ever paid a head coach. Yes, But if
you look back on that timeline of that week, right
to start the week, it was Dan Hurley is now
a candidate and they want to bring him in, And
then there was a leak of he's expected to get
(06:22):
offered a deal of one hundred million dollars and then
the deal comes in at seventy million dollars, and the
Lakers wanted to help pick his staff. So Dan Hurley,
who got on a plane with his wife, thought about
leaving everything he could behind and an amazing back to
(06:43):
back national championship program for the Lakers because it's the Lakers,
and he, of course him and his agent put it
out there, and one hundredllion dollars, they end up thirty
million short. Oh and now he's short on money. But
and you want to pick my staff, I'm gonna pass
on the pass. So I don't know if that's what
(07:06):
it's about or kind of this circus that's been created
based upon the Bronnie James draft pick. There's nothing wrong
with signing Bronnie James, nothing wrong, nothing wrong with him
being in the G League. I mean, look, if you
think this hasn't happened before, did you know Dwayne Wade
bought the G League team in Salt Lake City? And
(07:27):
did you know that his son played for that G
League team, who he didn't play in college, played in
the G League and they got pummeled. And I think
he stepped away from basketball. That's part of the story here,
is like I think I think Summer League could be
rough on Bronnie James. I just do like, remember Wemby
(07:49):
last year, just got off the plane in game one?
Who it was rough? Game two was like, Okay, he
figured out. But but Bronnie's not Wemby. Brownie's just a nice, good,
solid player who's played a little bit of college basketball.
Like I mean, all those games are televised, and he
(08:10):
signed a multi year contract with the Lakers and the
second round pick. Okay, the point is that you're Klay
Thompson and you sit there and go like, hm, I
could go to La where I've always dreamed of playing.
It's the Lakers. My dad played for the Lakers. What
better way to finish my career than to play with
Lebron James and Anthony Davis and just shoot threes and
(08:33):
play defense, give ourselves a chance to win another NBA championship.
My dad's calling the games I get to. I could
live in Orange County, where I live in the offseason,
like this thing is a rap, and instead you go
to Dallas. Yeah, because Dallas wants to do one thing.
(08:54):
They want to win an NBA championship. Their process is
how do we get from getting to an NBA Finals
and being kind of a surprising team too. Now, how
do we win a championship? It's not about state income tax?
Stop it, stop it. Like anyone who says the state
(09:15):
income tax thing, just look up what the property taxes
are and how it's affected in Texas. It's actually very
very difficult for many people. I have friends that moved
to Austin and there with every year they get a bigger,
bigger tax bill and it's super high. Right. Yeah, they
don't get you with the state income tax. And there's
ways in which you can duck and dive and do
some stuff and rent a place if you want. I
(09:37):
got it. The point is that the government's going to
get theirs regardless of when you're in California or timbucktoo.
And oh yeah, by the way, if you're making if
you've made one hundred and fifty million dollars and you
have a place that can see the water, there's no
way you can tell me, you know, try and talk
me into the idea that living in Dallas saving you
(09:57):
money something. There's a reason it costs more money because
it's worth it. But this is it's damning towards the Lakers.
Here's Mark Stein, who joined us earlier in the show,
talking about why Clay picked the MAVs over the Lakers.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
I think it's important to Klay Thompson after the last
couple of seasons. You know, he wants to show everyone
that he can still be a key contributor to a
good team. And I think the MAVs sold him on
there is a huge role for him in Dallas, playing
(10:38):
off of Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving, and I just
think that's really what swayed him. The MAVs have had
just a dreadful free agent history. They never get the
guys in free agency. So to be able to win
a faith off with the Lakers, to get a commitment
from Clay Thompson, you can imagine how happy people are
(10:59):
in Dallas right now, How happy Maps fans are.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Oh, no question, it's not just that they got Klay Thompson.
They got Klay Thompson when all signs said, hey, you
should be going to the Lakers, and he goes to
the Mavericks. Here's Mike marxcuse me talking about where the
Lakers go from here.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Their options are so limited and they've also got a
clock kicking because you know, Lebron James Team USA camp
is starting just in a few days this weekend, and
Lebron's gonna want to have his deal done by then.
He's not gonna want to practice with Team USA and start.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
Getting ready for the Olympics without assigned contracts. You know,
there's been all the talk about Lebron's willingness to take
a pay cut, but that was only if they were
getting a James harden A Quay Thompson. Now, I think
DeMar Derozen still lands in that group, and DeMar Derozen
is still out there, but I think there is a
(11:58):
question of how Damar would fit. Is Damar really willing
to take you know, he would have to take a
significant pay cut from where he is where he's been
with the Bulls for the last few seasons.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
But look, DeMar Derozen is also a Southern Californian. The
options for him appear to be somewhat limited in free agency.
You know, would he be willing to join the Lakers
for a lot less than he's been making with the Bulls.
I'm not so sure on that.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah. I mean, now we're working our way back to
DeMar de Rosen, which is interesting because DeMar de Rosen
was the guy that Rob Polinka and Buddy Heal were
the guys that Rob Blinka wanted to bring in a
couple of years ago when Lebron said no, no, no,
We're gonna go get Russell westbrook In. That didn't work,
And it makes sense for Klay Thompson to sit there
and go like, Okay, well, Russell westbrook He didn't enjoy
(12:53):
his experience like he had the brownny thing. That's weird.
You know, that's super super weird. Mm. You know, like
Lebron doesn't play much defense anymore, but does demand the
basketball and then it's like Anthony Davis's team, and yeah,
(13:14):
I can shoot, but I just I'm just gonna go
to a place where it's just about winning. It's just
about winning. I can still extract a little bit of
revenge on the Lakers and a little bit of revenge
on the Golden State Warriors, and I'm surrounded by a
really good team that that I fit with. But I
just I don't think we can undersell the magnitude of
(13:39):
that type of decision to shun the Lakers. It's and
we've seen it before, right, we saw Paul George and
Kawhi Leonard. They went. They went to the Clippers. At
least they stayed in Los Angeles, being Southern California guys.
But for Clay again grew up in Southern California. Dad
played for the Lakers. Dad covers the Lakers who didn't
(14:01):
dream of playing with those with the Kobe teams or
the Shaq and Kobe teams. Whatever to say, Nah, good
to Dallas. If that's not a sign of the perception
being a negative one in the league, I don't really
know what else is, because one would think, you're like, wait,
(14:21):
I can play with Lebron and he needs a guys.
He loves guys to play defense and shoot threes, and
I could be a Laker. And they offered more money.
They offered more money than Dallas that offer. It was
not a financial decision. This was a he did not
want to play with that group. He did not want
to play with that group. Doug Gottliebin for Colin is
(14:44):
the Herd on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Sam AM's gonna join us upcoming next? Am I wrong?
But the triumvirent of Nick's Celtics Sixers kind of feels
like the East is back. That's texting the Hurt.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon Eastern non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Doug Gollibin for Collins The Herd Fox Sports Radio, iHeartRadio app.
And as we're creeping closer and closer to Team USA
getting together, creeping closer and closer to an NBA summer
league season, we are right in the heart of free
agency season, and a lot of interesting things have been
going on, probably most notably Paul George goes to the
(15:29):
seventy six ers, but in terms of historically Clay Thompson
leaving the Warriors choosing the Mavericks over the Lakers is
also interesting. Sam Amy joins us here in The Hurt,
and he's a senior NBA writer for The Athletic. Why
do you think Clay chose the mouths of the Lakers?
Speaker 6 (15:49):
So I'm dying and thank you for having me. I
appreciate it dying to hear from Clay at some point,
you know, because I'd be lying if I, you know,
said a total Clay already on it. I mean, you
look at the basketball fit and obviously the way he
can stretch the floor what the MAVs did last year
makes a lot of sense. As a side note, you know,
(16:10):
he was on the feet of a World Cup team
in twenty fourteen. I think it was with Kyrie back
in the day when they were in Spain. It's funny
because we always focused on he and Steph bonding at
that point. But you know, he's got a relationship with
Kyrie and certainly sees what the MAVs are doing. But
you had so many personal connections to the Lakers situation,
(16:31):
from his father being around there, to the history with
the family and his own childhood you know, in the area,
and even his affinity for boats and water and coastal cities.
So I'm waiting to hear at some point here. You know,
what Clay says about why you made.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
To pick does feel like a little bit of indictment
on what's going on in LA, doesn't it.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
Yeah, it's not great, especially because I still think it's
a little downplayed. You know, Lebron certainly is headed back
and they're going to have some sibilance of a Lakers squad,
you know, ready for next year. But going into the draft.
You know I wrote this last week is you know
Lebron and Abe really wanted the Lakers to go all
in and to put their three first first round picks
(17:15):
on the table and go after as de Jonte Murray
or somebody like that. And and you know, we've seen
this the last four or five years with not only
Lebron though with Anthony Davis and his relationship with the
franchise where they listen to him sometimes they don't listen
to him others and it felt like Rob Palinka JJ
Riddick were going the other way, leaning into development, holding
(17:38):
on to Austin Reeves, kind of treating him like he
was untouchable. And you know now they yeah, they just
keep kind of swinging and missing on different guys that
are within reach. So we'll see if they can pull
something off here.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Okay, so what about what about the Clippers and the
decision to uh to kind of punt on Paul George.
They didn't want to give him that fourth year. They
signed Kawhi before they signed him, so he leaves what
what the Clippers are moving into the end to it Dome.
This was supposed to be, Hey, we're going to take
(18:14):
over the city of Champions, which is which is Englewood,
which used to be home to the Lakers when they
played at the Forum. What now for the Clippers.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
Yeah, I mean, it's not the sexy storyline that Steve
Bomber was hoping for. And you know, it feels to
me like there was a bit of a communication breakdown,
maybe even amongst the players themselves, because if you go
back to what Kawhi signed his extension three years I
think one hundred and fifty three, one hundred and fifty
million in that neighborhood, you know, he publicly said that
(18:45):
he expected Paul to be back and James to be back,
and it seemed like there was no stress around the
situation at all. But now what has become clear is,
you know, a couple of things. For one, Paul never
agreed to take a deal that is, you know, that
much below what was available to him, and the Clippers
were obviously incredibly committed to getting away from the second
(19:08):
Apron luxury tax. That really again, this is not the
most compelling radio or storytelling, but like the luxury taxes,
it's just front and center in this NBA offseason where
it is absolutely guiding everything that teams do, and the
Clippers didn't want to be handcuffed with their roster for
the foreseeable future, and that's why they wouldn't budge and
(19:30):
give Paul the deal that he wanted. And I do
understand the logic because you got three aging stars, no
ability to build around them because of all the restrictions
that would have come with where they'd be at from
a payroll standpoint. But it feels like Kawhi and Paul
in particular, like, you know, like somebody didn't tell the
(19:50):
other what the plan was here, because one guy's still
there and one guy's does.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
It should be a shock though, that Kawhi Leonard didn't
communicate with somebody on that's like the least it's like
the least surprising thing.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
Ever. The best part is I just saw a picture
of him. I think he was in Costa Rica.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Costa Rica, Yeah, and it's.
Speaker 6 (20:11):
Just like not a care in the world. I don't
think he was losing sleep over what happened with the
Clippers roster. He's obviously an incredibly different guy, one of one,
if you will, but yes, not the most communicative.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Am I crazy? But look, I understand the West is
really going to be uh in the Midwest out right, Dallas,
Oklahoma City, Minnesota, those teams even we'll see what we'll
get to Denver in a second. But but for the
for the NBA to have Boston, the Knicks and the
(20:44):
Sixers as one a champion and two others that are
right there, you know, in a in a dead heat
for second best team in the East, like kind of
impressive for the NBA and feels like really really good
news for the short term future of the NBA.
Speaker 6 (21:02):
Yeah, no, I agree with that. I mean, we have
this parody era where is it what six champions in
a row now, where you know, no, no back to
backs and a different champ every year, And that part
doesn't really lend itself to like I think fan engagement
where I think fans kind of like that, not necessarily dynasties,
(21:23):
but some consistency. But if you counter by having a
loaded East with big time markets and big time cities,
and I throw Milwaukee in there too, it's not a
big city. But I do actually think that Giannis and
Dan Lillard and year number two are worth watching. And
Dame has been open about how he wasn't really ready
(21:43):
to go last year so maybe they find a way
to make that work. The East has got a ton
of star power.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
You know.
Speaker 6 (21:50):
The only qualifier that I would put on Philly and
I love the Paul George move, is that we just
we always get reminded that that it's not you know,
on paper, you have Phoenix and Milwaukee last year has
great examples of teams that just weren't as good as
we thought they were going to be. So we'll see
how that fits. But I like what the Knicks did.
The Nova Knicks approach is wild, and Boston obviously at
(22:12):
the top of the mountain, so it should be fun.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Sam A makes our Guests, NBA scene writer for The Athletic,
He joins us. Okay, So Donovan Mitchell re signs a
three year extension to stay in Cleveland. It seems pretty obviously.
People I've talked to is like, he don't want play
for Bigger Staff anymore. Bigger Staff's gone. All these moves,
all the things they've done are basically to keep him.
Does feel like they learned a little bit from the
Lebron era that they did everything to keep Donovan Mitchell.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
I would agree. I would agree, and as you know,
someone who's covered the league for a minute. I find
it so interesting to see these ripple effects and I
think you make a great point there, like lessons from Lebron,
if you will. Another example that comes to mind is
the Pacers and the way they've handled Tyrese Halliburton his
lessons from Paul George and so I do think there's
(23:01):
kind of a through line there. And I know the
Cavs listen, they they they are trying to forge an identity, uh,
you know, elite identity that does not involve Lebron, James
and Donovan. If he ultimately wound up being you know,
kind of a cup of coffee star for them and
was on his way to another market, then that would
(23:22):
have been something that you know, just was a failed project.
But it seems like they're finding a way to keep
him around. He signs a three year deal because he's
you know, trying to light it up to get his
twenty nine year old max down the road, which is fine,
that makes sense. But you know, we'll see what they
do with Darius Darland because the reporting coming into the
(23:42):
summer was that that he wasn't looking to stick around.
If if that was going to be the backcourt so
that's kind of the next phase here. But I like
the Atkinson hire and and buy large. They're they're kind
of keeping that group together and doing good work.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
The Suns. You know, there was some talk of they
stay pat.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
Yeah, one hundred percent. It seems like it's just, you know,
no alternatives unless I mean, you blow it up then
I mean then you you've kind of waved the white
flag pretty quickly after coming in like Gangbusters the way
Matt Isba did. He bought the team. It doesn't really
matter now, but it's just a fact he bought the team,
(24:25):
and he and and he kind of had that you know,
new owner. Iightis if you will where you take over
for the GM, take over for everybody and make the moves.
And they were splashy and they've got some future Hall
of Famers on the squad, but they obviously didn't put
it together last year. I don't see it changing, you know.
(24:46):
I wrote a little bit the other day about Houston
in particular and their reported interest in Kevin Durant, And
you know what I was told from their side was that, no,
it's actually not really about Kevin. It's if they want
to give up Devin Booker then us talk because you
know his timeline fits with what the Rockets are doing.
But it's just so prohibitive to have those contracts, all
(25:10):
three of them, because you could make a choice like
moving on from Devin and getting a massive return, But
then you know you still got the two guys. You know,
it's it's pretty hard to pivot down a rebuilding type
of road. I think they're going to just kind of
have to cross their fingers and hope that you two,
with Mike Glutenholzer in the building is going to be
(25:32):
the answer, because that's the other thing. You can't hire.
Excuse me, you can't hire Bud and then pivot. I mean,
you hire Mike Glutenholzer. You're you're trying to fix what
was broken last year.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yep, yep. Okay, what about the Warriors? What now?
Speaker 6 (25:48):
Crazy times? You know on base near Sacramento, grew up
in the Bay, have a good pulse on their fan base.
They are not happy right now there. You know that
the end has finally arrived. Obviously, still have Steph, You've
got Draymond, You've got different possibilities out there. The Lorry
Markinings of the World, maybe Tomarbo Rosen, But the Clay
(26:10):
thing is an absolute gut punch to the region. The
guy was. He was nothing short of a legend. And
it's what strikes me, as we said here, like thirty
six hours or so after you know he made his choice,
is that last couple of years there was just NonStop
screwediny about he wasn't the guy that he had been before.
(26:33):
And I get all that, and he'd be frustrated behind
the scenes and kind of wrestling with his own basketball mortality.
But my goodness, the second he's gone, there's a bit
of a reckoning, I think when it comes to fans
facing the reality of what it means for him to
leave the Bay, because that really wasn't supposed to happen.
It was supposed to be these guys finishing together and unfortunately,
(26:57):
really that the injuries Like that's the for me, that's
the beginning and the end of the story. Like, are
there personal dynamics involved that played the part? Absolutely, but
it's all. It all starts with him losing two years
in his prime and really never being able to get
over that and not liking the way that he was
(27:18):
treated as a result of that, and the impact on
his market and things of that nature. So that to
me is why he's in Dallas.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Now, Yeah, I don't I don't think there's I don't
think there's any any doubt, any doubt at all. Last thing,
the Olympic team. What happens if this group doesn't win?
Speaker 6 (27:40):
I said, I mean, that's gonna be, That's gonna be,
you know, egg on the face of the highest order.
I guess I don't see it happening. I know international
competition has gotten a whole lot better.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
It's a different sport. It's a different sport. He's just
a different sport.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
This is let me throw it to you, thug, like
the these are the old heads who have done this before.
Does that matter to you or not?
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yes, it does matter, but it's still again, it's a
different sport. And remember when they have done it before. Right,
there was the year Kobe Bryant bailed him out against Spain.
They don't beat Spain. They probably don't beat Spain if
Kobe is not on that team. Kevin Durant bailed them,
has bailed him out in previous years as well. Right,
at some point in time, like do they have the
guy who can break glass in case emergency and just
(28:28):
win games on his own. I don't know. I don't
know what the answer is to that.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Well, as a subplot, I just was actually talking to
somebody about this today. The Kyrie Irving subplot I find
interesting because I'm not trying to say he's the ultimate,
you know, break last guy, but you know, I think
Kyrie and his ability to rehabilitate his basketball image more
(28:53):
more quickly than people anticipated as now made it. So
if they do to your point, let's say they fall
flat and they don't get the gold, I think it's
fair to bring up the choice to a not have
a tryout like they would in the past, which Kyrie
is highlighted. Uh, and then be you know, if if
you look at a Kyrie versus the Kyrie's Halliburton, there's
(29:14):
some of the other guys who did make the squad.
You want a guy who can get you a bucket
and save you a few times, that's Kyrie.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah. Yeah, and obviously more experienced at the at the
highest level of competition could be Fasting Sam great stuff
as always, can't wait to read more and listen to
more of your work. Appreciate you being our guest in
the hurt.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
You got it, Thank you, Doug.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
That's Sam Amic from the Athletic Let's get to rye
music with the news.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
No, no turns. This is the herd Line news.
Speaker 7 (29:46):
All right, Doug. Let's unfortunately go to some not so
great news for fans of United States men's national soccer team.
An incredibly disappointing result for or them losing to as
you said, what was it and and failing to advance
(30:09):
past the group stage of Copa America.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I'm always, I'm always, I'm sorry to interrupt. We do
that though, soccer more than anything, right, Like we don't
call it a pitch anywhere else, Like we use our
American lexicon and everything, and then soccer all of a sudden,
we'll use the We'll use the born legs con and
the pitchside, the kit and the kit. Yeah, the kids,
(30:33):
you're you're here.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Yeah, anyway, all right, incredibly disappointing, Most notably people pointing
out the fact that there was a highly controversial off
sides non call on the different the difference making goal
for Uruguay and uh it went to review. Now here's
(30:57):
where things get interesting. Most people were or a completely
caught off guard as to how this went to video
review and it was still not overturned. The difference that
they're being pointed out by this, according to ESPN, is
basically there are two different technologies that are used because
(31:19):
these are two separate tournaments. So in the Euros right now,
they have a more advanced technology which can give a
more exact result of the video review based off of
on sides, not on sides, COPA America is still using
a slightly older, legacy version of this technology, which essentially
(31:44):
means if they don't have the right camera angle, they
make an assumption on where they think the offside line is,
and then they thought that because the evidence wasn't indisputable enough,
they give the advantage to the attacking team, which is
why the goal was upheld.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
If anyone was.
Speaker 7 (32:01):
Watching the Euros earlier today, the Netherlands, who went on
to win convincingly so this was far less controversial, did
have a goal taken away because of offsides, and it
was a far far narrower margin compared to last night's
United States Uruguay competition.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
So what do I?
Speaker 7 (32:22):
Yes, however, yes there they did. They did, but.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Which which is the exact opposite intent of replay replays
intense is get it right correct, and they didn't get
it right, and then we lose and look could ease
a little bit of tie. We don't know how the
rest of the match goes. And not for that controversial goal,
you know, not for the red card in the previous match,
you know we got we got a full full roster
of players. So there's sure there's some other things.
Speaker 7 (32:47):
But the general thought though, as you pointed out earlier
with what you were saying about.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Part of the coach. But also I've never seen anything
like it. I've never seen it. There's no other play
it exists where you like, fire the coach. Every loss
that ever happens in soccer, it's fired the coach. Yes,
and again I'm not saying coaching doesn't matter. I'm a
head coach in college. I think coaching matters a ton
(33:15):
a ton. You know, people think the coach doesn't matter
in the NBA, Like that's funny. The same guy has
end up keep winning right and coaching and and finding
the fit for coaches is a is a gigantic It's
like Mike Budenolzer. I don't know how that works. I
don't know how that works in in in Phoenix. But
you know, like Darvin Ham got fired because he was
(33:37):
a terrible fit for Lebron James. Lebron James wants to
be once a coach that's super prepared, over prepared. That
was Frank, and Frank didn't work with Kevin Durant and
and those guys because Kevin Durrant's not really a prep guy.
He's like, this is squat hoop. Darvinham would have been
better off with the Suns. Maybe not a good fit
for Lebron because he was Darvin was late to his
(33:59):
own So but the point is, I'm not here to
dispute that coaching matters. But literally, you can set your
watch to it. If our US men's national soccer team loses,
social media and traditional media will say every single time.
Speaker 7 (34:18):
All right, we'll wrap up with this from Football to
Football American version, The Bengals are looking for Joe Burrow
to bounce back and stay healthy this season. Most people
would agree when Burrow is upright, probably a top five
quarterback in the league, but Burrow himself disagrees. In fact,
he hates lists and rankings. Here's what he told Complex Sports.
(34:39):
I don't like lists because I feel like it takes
away from certain people's accomplishments, and there's just not really
a top five all time, and there's not even really
a top five in the game right now. It's something
that can just sort of change from week to week. Personally,
I love Joey What's up?
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Who said that?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Joe Burrow?
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I kind of the lists are meant for clicks.
Speaker 7 (35:02):
Sure, you know, I agree, I agree in like the
all time discussion. I mean, I think there's a general
idea of who we thinks all time. But really you
could side with him in terms of the eras to
eras comparison.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
It's impossible the top.
Speaker 7 (35:17):
Five in the league I would disagree with. I don't
know if you always want to set the number at five.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
But yeah, most people know that. Just I like the
Tiers thing. Doesn't Mike Sando do the Tears thing every year? Yes? Yes, yeah,
I like the Tears. One shout out to Mike. I
like the Tears.
Speaker 7 (35:33):
Yeah, there's there's a general cutoff to where you're like,
you got Mahomes, who's his own thing. Then you have
the Joe Burrows, the Josh Allens. You know, we'll see
what where Aaron Rodgers is at coming off the injury.
And then after that there's another tier. So like you
have those guys who are the upper upper elite, Lamar Jackson,
you can go ahead and put him in there as well.
Obviously two times.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Put him in that second tier. He can't put him in that
second tier. Okay, the other ones have all done in
the playoffs. Sure, I would put Lamar Jackson in that
that next tier. Guys have been great regular season quarterbacks.
He had to be great playoff quarterbacks. Sir Mahomes is
a tier under himself because he erects all the check marks.
He has youth, and then he's performed at his best
(36:14):
when his best is called upon, right, and then you
I would put Josh Allen even though he hasn't got
to do Super Bowl. I mean, like, look the win
what should have been a win thirteen seconds in Kansas City, Like, dude,
you can't play any better and he played that day, yeah,
and he played. He played pretty well this year too.
So I would put Burrow in that second tier. I
(36:35):
would not put Lamar in it, even though his regular
season you put him in any second. And then like
Herbert has like all the talent, but he yet to
put together in the one one playoff game, Trevor Lawrence.
Two playoff games put them in that third tier. We
kind of go on the league and the question is
what do you do with with d? But yes, I
actually agree with with Burrow in that there's not necessarily
(36:57):
top five. It can be fluid. In addition to which
it's stupid expare arabs and I liked your idea you
don't always have to have five when you're doing your list.
And that's Ryan's a good news.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Well that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
heard Line news.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
All right, there's a debate brewing in Philadelphia about Jared McCain,
the first round draft pick, and his use of TikTok
Well's settle. That debate part of our Best for Last
next to the Herd.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Eastern non a em Pacific.
Speaker 8 (37:32):
Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben
Maller with me and a lot to have you join
us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking what in
God's name is the Fifth Hour. I'll tell you it's
a spin off of it. Ben Maler show. A could
hit overnights on FSR. Why should you listen picture if
you will a world will? We chat with captains of
industry in media, sports and more every week explore some
(37:54):
amazing facts about human nature and more. Listen to the
fifth Hour with Ben Maller on the iHeartRadio app, apple
Pot Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Welcome man, Doug Gottliebin for Collins. I heard Fox Sports Radio,
iHeartRadio app. Hope you're getting ready for a great Fourth
of July weekend. We're doing Lake Beach Mountains, just chilling
at home in the Cold de Sac. Right in the
Cold de Sac. Is that's really kind of mailing it in.
Let's just kind of be honest, just kind of mailing
it in. But we did have something fun to end
(38:21):
up with, because who doesn't like to talk about TikTok
and the NBA. Part of our Best for Last.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
It's almost the end of the show, but that doesn't
mean we're phoning it in. Nope, we grind it the
very last segment. It's time for Best for Last.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
So just again, this is a great discussion with no
one really making any sort of salient points that they know.
It's it's really about whether or not, whether or not
it's going to affect his season, his career. Jared McCain
is not only was not only a star, a duke
and a star growing up in southern California McDonald's America,
(38:58):
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, but also Jared McCain
is a TikTok star. Right. He has TikTok dance videos.
Here's Paul George who Paul George said quote his personality
stands out more than anything on his podcast. He's got
a personally like personality like I'm me, I'm gonna do me.
(39:21):
The fact that he don't give an f that he
paints his nails and what people say about them. He
could probably and he could be himself and go hoop,
you can call him anything. At this point. He's got
a toughness about him too, so I don't think he
gives a blank all that is true. I would also
point out that, like Paul, you haven't played a game
(39:41):
with Jared McCain. Maybe you've worked out with him in
the summer being in southern California, but that would be
that that would be about it. But it's just more
the if you're the Sixers, Do you reiin in the
TikTok thing? Because people on social media or even fans
will want to make fun of the tiktoks. My point
(40:02):
is and has always been, like, you do have to
let people be themselves and just understand what comes with it.
Nobody cares. You can make shots and get stops, nobody cares.
Don't care, it becomes it becomes cute and clever. And
my point is always like, look, if he's not out
smoking and drinking and he spends all his time in
(40:23):
the gym and he makes tiktoks in the gym, like,
what do I care about? I don't know my crazy
Ryan that it does feel. Do I want him in
the middle of a huddle, you know, or he gets
taken out of a game doing a TikTok video? No, no,
But if he's just hanging around the gym at all
hours and he does a TikTok video, I don't think
(40:43):
it's really the worst thing of all time. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (40:45):
It sort of reminds me of sort of a Juju
Smith Schuster situation in the NFL, to where it was
like when he was productive, people were like, oh, look
at him, He's like kind of like a TikTok guy,
and it's led to endorsements, and then as soon as
like the production falls off or something goes a little sideways,
it immediately becomes well, I mean, would that have happened
(41:07):
if he wasn't so worried about Tiktoks? And so it
kind of looks like a matter of convenience that you
will use that as a reason for justification more so
than it may actually be a direct result of why
he might not be succeeding in the NBA.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (41:22):
I mean, look, if he turns out to not be
a particularly productive player and the reports, the reports come
out that he's late for practice because he's filming tiktoks, Okay,
that's clearly a problem. But I have very I have
my doubts that that's what's actually going to end up
being the case.
Speaker 9 (41:38):
See, my thing is, my thing is it's like they're
going for a championship this year, right, like this is
just another distraction. And look, I have kids, young kids,
and they know him more for TikTok than they do
for his what he does, what he did at Duke.
But I guess my whole thing is, like, is he
like Doug, You've got your coach now right. If your
players are spending more time doing TikTok rehearsals been watching
(42:01):
game film, would that bother you?
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Well, they're not watching game film. But like, there's twenty
four hours in a day, Like you can't. I can't
manage all twenty four hours in a day. Are you
doing what we're supposed to do it? Like this whole idea,
if you're working really hard enough, you can go, you know,
on an individual workout an hour twice in a day.
If we're doing a practice, you can go, you know,
two hours in a practice, maybe two and a half
(42:25):
and then get you know, get a half hour, forty
five minutes of other shots. You know, plus you have
weight training whatever. But you know, most most kids are
taking online classes, honest to god. Like if you if
if fifteen to thirty minutes out of your day are
spent making a TikTok video, I don't care. I just don't.
I just don't. Like you don't major in the minors.
Speaker 9 (42:43):
I mean the kids, the kids who are putting out
these TikTok video like the professionals, they spend their whole
day doing this, like that's their whole day is doing
this like it.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
If it starts to affect not just your performance but
your preparation, absolutely, then you shut it down. But you know,
like we kind of oversell how much athletes grind in there,
Like most most professional athletes have a scheduled nap in
their day every day. Let's not act like that we're
doing the real hard labor. Just not. I've done manual
(43:16):
labor twice in my life. No thanks, I would much
prefer to be a professional basketball player doing TikTok videos,
which may take up an hour of my time. That's
the best for last. All Right, that's it for this
edition of The Herd. Make sure you download the podcast
or download the podcast to my show, The Doug Gottlieb Show,
which of course also rolls on Fox Sports Trading in
(43:37):
the iHeartRadio app
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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