January 2, 2025 • 31 mins
Looking at the career of Sam Darnold and why he fits so well with the Vikings
J-Mac gives his picks in "Tomorrow's headlines today"
Guest: Jordan Palmer
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd Podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sportsradio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening
to The Herd Podcast. No person in my life have
(00:22):
I ever met that knows more about quarterbacks than Jordan Palmer,
founder of QB Summit. He has worked with all of them,
the Burrows, the Mahomes, the Josh Allen's. He was the
first person to tip me off on Josh Allen. We
were talking about Donald and he said, keep your eye
on this Josh Allen kid before anybody else did. And
I got so many questions to ask you. I'm gonna
ask you about the rookie NFL quarterbacks. I'm gonna ask
(00:43):
you about Riley Leonard, who nobody's paying attention to, and
Jalen Milroe, who I think is better than people think.
But I want to start with this. You are right now.
I think you're an active quarterback consultant with Darnald so
Sam calls you regularly. What unlocked. We know Kevin O'Connor's
a good coach, but what un locked the star power,
the juice? What was unlocked? Because you always talk about
(01:04):
that on this show. We got to unlock something. What
was it with Sam Well?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
His talent hasn't changed, right, He hasn't grown too inches
since the draft. He hasn't gotten way faster. All these players'
careers should evolve. They're throwing mechanics should evolve, they're understanding
of defenses, so that there's been an evolution over the
last six years. The other thing is I don't think
he'd river really been through a ton of adversity, you
know in high school and college right kind of was
(01:30):
a meteoric deal here and then just getting drugg through
the mud for multiple years, getting traded away for nothing
I think hardened him. And yes, the Kevin O'Connell, the
pieces in the huddle. We don't need to spend time
talking about how good the Minnesota Viking's roster in front
office and coaching staff is because that's all everybody's talking about.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
The thing.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
The biggest thing for him that I've seen is that
in all of those years of kind of getting punched
in the gut, the media and the teams and traded
and all that. I just never saw him cut a corner.
I've never had this guy show at fifteen minutes late,
have to bail or I've just never seen it. And
the way that I work with him and Joe Burrow
as well, is it really is an annual relationship where, yes,
(02:11):
the off season we try and find similar to what
Tom Brady used to talk about, try and find one
or two things right, because when you get to the
level where you're playing, where Sam is right now and
Joe is right now.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
There's still an off season coming up. They're still going
to try and get better.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And so what we do is in the off season
we build the programming and look at what has been
working and what can you build on. And then in season,
every single week reviewing things. And there's three categories. One,
what are you doing great that you need to continue
to do great, let's highlight it. What do you need
to work on, which means you used to do it
better than you did and it's taking a step back.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
For whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
And then the third one is something to think about
maybe something showed up in somebody else's game, Sam's attention
and focus on those things, regardless of how bad it
was going, and right now how well it is going.
The fact that his approach hasn't changed, I think is
really actually like a superpower. Your willingness to buy in
find individual things to get better at is the superpower.
(03:06):
And there's a perfect example. So bye week, it was
week six. I think this year for them, he comes
out here and spend a day together, and at that
point this season, at that point in the season, I
think it was twenty four point eight percent of his misses,
not necessarily in completions, just a little off, was outbreaking
routes to the right. Identify a mechanical issue, not draw
(03:26):
on the shoulder in whatever the details were, address it,
Show how we can work on it at home, how
we can work on it in practice, what he can
add to warm ups. And from the bye week to
now he's got one miss on an outbreaking route to
the right and the ball slipped out of his hand.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Isn't that great? I love this stuff. I want him
to tell you a story, folks. So Josh Allen, he
was the first, got to tip me off on Josh Allen.
So Josh Allen now doesn't take the sacks and doesn't
throw picks, and there's a fascinating you go deep into
the numbers. It used to be a thing you after
a couple of years, found something rolling right that was
(04:00):
a problem. Tell the audience this story on Josh Allen.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well, I think what started the Josh Allen hype train
at Wyoming because it wasn't because they won it all
or when undefeated. Right, it was a play he made
versus Boise State. He's rolling right and he threw it
about forty five yards back corner of the end zone
and it was one of those well, I don't know
anybody who can make that throw right type of throws.
And then I think he was on Sports Illustrated and
they were maybe gonna have gamed and it just kind
(04:24):
of started to happen. Right, started to the hype train,
whatever that means, started to roll. And then he got
a lot of positive reinforcement from that. Right, Like, all
of a sudden, everyone's talking about you and you see
yourself on TV and they keep showing that play and
he's so good at it. So he would roll right,
and when he roll right, he would make unbelievable throws
down the field. And kept chasing it when he got
(04:44):
it early in the first two years, and Brian Dable
was you know, developing him and and really they were
developing that that team because Bills fans know this. Everyone
forget like his number one receiver his rookie year was
Kelvin Benjamin. Yeah, like this is not he didn't step
into some situation. But really, through the first two years,
I think he was high fifties completion percentage.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, and when he would roll right.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And at the time, I think I wrote it all down,
but it was, you know, rolling right. You've got this
many you know, ten touchdowns, fifteen unbelievable throws, thirteen picks
and a bunch of hits, a bunch of you getting
pushed or getting tackled and landing on your right shoulder,
and you only get so many of us.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
That's right to hear that. So he kept falling on
his right shoulder. You discovered that, and then.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It just it needs to become an asset because you
have the highest level.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Now what's happened to him?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Well, I think now teams are sitting here going we
can't let him roll right because he's not turning it over.
He's not taking unnecessary hits, and I think he's one
of the most dynamic runners, not at the quarterback position
in the league.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So I've never heard anybody even discuss this. You just
didn't like him falling on his right shoulder because your belief,
and it's true, is your body gives you about three
hundred of those and then it and then it availability.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
It's the whole Like, what's your best ability conversation?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Well, availability is okay, I want to talk about another
NFL quarterback. You're a very optimistic, positive quarterback guru. I,
of course tend to come off as cynical and negative.
I like rock Party, but I have the theory on
quarterbacks the if bucket after about three ifs I'm not
paying you starting with a five, you're a three or
(06:24):
a four. If it's not raining, if he gets protection,
if he has McCaffrey, if he's leading, the numbers tell
you trailing fourth quarter, you're not the same quite the
same quarterback. I couldn't pay brock of Fortune. I like him,
I don't love him. Why should I love him? What
do you see with him?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I think, Uh, were's so many ways for us to
come to a conclusion or an opinion on somebody. Right,
So stats depending on who you are and what you're
doing for a living, right like, stats is one tape
for certain people. If you're in the media, tapes less relevant.
If you're in a front office, stats are less relevant,
you know what I mean? Sure, depends on what context
you're looking at it through. I with Brock look at
(07:05):
it like what situations have we put him in and
how has he handled it? And when you've had a healthy,
good roster, he's basically played like one of the best
quarterbacks in the league, and at least in my opinion,
last season, the way that he yes, the plays that
he made, the mistakes that he didn't make and avoided,
but then the way that he went through the playoffs
and played great didn't change the whole leadership element that
(07:27):
really only the people in the building can speak to.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Right, We can all have opinions, but you're there.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
And Sam Darnold backed him U last year, so I
got a chance to hear just how mature and focused
and confident this guy remained all the way through the.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Super Bowl, Right, And so if we build.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Around him, this is a guy that I don't know
if it starts with the five, but it definitely starts
with a three or four. If you're asking me like
it's a yeah, you give him a ton of money,
you give him a three year deal. If the left
tackles hurt and the running backs out and the receivers out,
he's not as good. Well, if you pay the quarterback,
then John Lynch's job is to build around him. And
I think there's two things the Niners have done a
(08:07):
really good job of. One of them is evaluating talent,
finding good players. I don't know the name of the
running back who for them, who's playing well right now.
The second thing they've done is develop players. And so
if you're if you're a Niners fan, you go, let's
lock in brock Purty. I don't I don't like the
whole Franchise him and make him play it, make him
prove it. He's proven it, so pay him and then
(08:31):
do a great job of evaluating talent and and developing
the talent around him. And you know he may lose
debo this year for whatever reason. Well, you drafted Ricky
Pearsall in the first round. I think they did a
good job of evaluating talent. Now it's done to develop them.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I want to go. Let's talk a couple of rookies.
You have kind of an interesting belief on Caleb Williams,
who has had the roughest rookie season, And your belief is.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
What the talent is there, worthy of being the number
one pick, worthy of being a Heisman Trophy winner, worthy
of being the Elite eleven MVP and number one recruit
in the country. Like, that part hasn't changed for me.
I think, however, you want to classify this, I would
put it in the field.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Let's just use this word failure.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Okay, this hasn't been the CJ Stroud year from last year,
right or Jayden from this year. So for his standards,
which has been number one, number one and one, like
all the way through.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
This is a step back.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Whatever if this is classified as a failure, not that
it's his fault, right, all the pieces around him.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I think for guys who've had nothing but.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Success, a failure year where it didn't go the way
that you had envisioned, actually can be really good for
your growth. I think it's been really good for a
lot of people's growth in the background in the past.
I think it's been good for Sam Darnold's development. Just
like when we look at Josh Allen and we say
no offers had to go to Juca. Well, that was
(09:53):
failure early, it didn't work.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I think a healthy dose of a tough year for
the incredibly confident and incredibly talented players, which is what
Caleb Williams is. I think it can actually do wonders
and I think we're gonna see his best ball ahead
of him. And I'm not really concerned with Caleb's future
looking out. I think he's in a really tough spot
(10:17):
right now and he needs to get better. And for
the first time in his life, in his football career,
it's not just him wanting to get better.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
It's obvious he needs to improve. He needs to find
ways to improve.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I think that's healthy for the really elite thinkers, really
elite confidence guys, and the really elite talent.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 5 (10:41):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis, and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Why should you listen to Cavino and Rich.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world. We have a lot of fun talking
about the stories behind the stories in the world of
sports and pop culture, stories that well, other shows don't
seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact
that we've been friends for the last twenty years and
still work together.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I mean that says something, right, So check us out.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
We like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
chop it up.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
As they say, I'd.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
Say, the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe
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your podcasts, and of course on social media that's Covino
and Rich.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Okay, I got to ask you about two college guys,
because there will be a guy in this draft. I'm
targeting Riley Leonard. I'll get to him in a second
Notre Dame quarterback. I like him a lot, but again,
he came from Duke. It's a new system. Notre Dame
is asking a lot of him and it took a
while to get going. But he's been very good lately.
But Jalen Milroll's fascinating is he's a much better Anthony Richardson.
(12:04):
I like him. I would absolutely draft him, not as
my first quarterback, maybe not as my second. I think
he's a first round quarterback. What do you see You've
been so good on this through the years. What do
you see with Jalen Milroll that, if I'm right, that
makes him a first round quarterback?
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Well, I look for anybody looks for unique traits.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And when I say unique, I don't mean one of
the you know, unique, The word means like there's not
another one like it, that's right, right, And he has
two so one the first.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
One is at the athleticism.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I he's a client of mine. I've been a tusclos
a hndful of times this year. And the same thing
that I said with with Joe and Sam, it's I've
got ten college guys where we work throughout the entire year.
We talk every single week and go through things. I've
been out there that little Ryan Wims receiver, the rookie
goes out there. I go, hey, hey, how fast is
Jalen compared to the other guys on the team? Him
(12:58):
and other guys are like, well, Jents fastest kind of team.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Jal's faster than Williams.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I think Jalenn's the fastest kind of the team. I
aniny thing.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Guys at Albama would say that. So he's not gonna
run a fast forty. He's like the fastest guy in
the field. Okay, so that's unique faster than the others
by definition in Alabama, yeah, or on any field, and
so you go, Okay. The athleticism and get to full
speeds another thing, because a lot of guys have top
end speed. But you know, we saw guys like Vince
Young like that not necessarily translate the running in the
(13:27):
NFL because some guys it takes a lot longer to
get to their Their time might be fast.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
This is full speed like three steps.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So the athleticism is unique, and they'll be Lamar Jackson
comps in terms of you know, the draft and coming out,
but he's got like twenty pounds on lamar.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So he's a bigger, stronger.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Little mechanical for my taste. What do you make of that?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And I think, like I said earlier, everybody's throwing motion
mechanic like that all evolves. And what I have seen
from him is the buy and the attention to it
and the professionals and how he looks at developing it,
not just going I've got a super strong arm and
I'm gonna roll with it, which a lot of people do.
I don't think it's gonna affect anything moving forward. I
think the first one is the athleticis and the second
(14:09):
thing is his personality. Once he goes through this draft process,
folks like you, front offices teams meet him like this
dude's a magnet. This guy's a light like he is
that cool to be around. And so those two unique
traits will stand out as the process unfolds.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
The tape will be the tape.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
There's some good, there's some bad, like everybody, and I
think somebody's gonna fall in love with him, and he's
gonna go higher than some people thought, and as high
as I.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Thought, Riley Leonard, people roll their eyes at me. I
see a little Josh Allen, tall athletic. Marcus Freeman tells
me relentless competitor. He like all these young guys. Duke
didn't ask him to do what Notre dame Is didn't
love him. Early after about week five, six seven, I'm like,
(14:54):
I don't know, folks, tall, rangy, athletic, arm Is there
something there? Am I nuts?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Absolutely no, not nuts. I think this guy's gonna be
a really good player, really athletic.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
His basketball tapes insane.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, and just it shows up like some guys are
great basketball players and you would have you know, you
would have never known it. Some guys you watch their
tape and I tell you they're great basketball. You go, oh,
that makes sense, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
What I mean?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
And uh, And so with him, I think all the
mobility stuff that he has. I don't know what his
forty time is. I don't care. That part translates. Running
in the league as a quarterback is like the sum
of six and eight yard games. It's not the fifty
five years, right, right, yeah, right. And then I like
guys that have gone to another school for their last
year and played well because it's there's a lot of newness.
(15:39):
It's similar to a rookie year. Yeah, you go from
Duke to Notre Dame. It's not just new for you,
it's now it's Notre Dame. It's a new lot of schedule. Yeah,
the magnitude of it, all the stuff you gotta do.
You know they're gonna pay you, and I owe money.
That means you got to do a lot of stuff
right right, and you got to be a lot of
places and talk to a lot of people. And then
the new teammates and then they had a bad life
(16:00):
Austin Northern Illinois. Yeah, and it totally could have caved
and it didn't. They're on like an eight or nine
game heater. I think Marcus Freeman deserves a lot of
credit for that. I think Riley Leonard does two.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Okay, So it's called QB Summit. It's a program that
helps quarterbacks reach their potential. He's had Burrow golf, Trevor
Lawrence bow necks. By the way, bo nex you liked it,
Has it been what you thought?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah? I think so.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I think it's the perfect pairing between him and Sean
And there's so much of Bow's not just.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Game but personality.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
He's intense.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
It's similar to dew Brees right, very mature, he's married,
he's like, he's dealt with adversity.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
He kind of goess better than I thought.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And he's a lot more athletic than anybody getting credit for.
He moves, Yes, he moves, and so I think it's
been exactly what Sean Payton was hoping it would be
and the best balls ahead of him.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Did Sean call you?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
He did not, But but I I think he's I
think he got exactly what he was looking for.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
And yeah, I mean, he had so many starts in
college that you he was one of those you kind
of knew what you were getting. But I will say this,
I didn't think I thought his arm was Derek carr
Ish kind of in the same thing. And then I've
watched them deliver some deep throws and I'm like, well,
Aaron Rodgers' arm got stronger in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
It all evolves absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
And the way this guy approaches his development in his
game is like some of these other guys I've talked about,
where it's like he's doing it like he's been in
the league for a long time and already knows what
he needs to work on.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
How do you make I'm not that I'm going to
go out and throw football. How do you make your
arm stronger? Aaron's was strong in college. It's insane. Now
what's It's not a bench press? Is it plyometrics? What
is it?
Speaker 5 (17:34):
No?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I think it starts with the Burrow's a perfect example
because even though he torched college football, his arm has
gotten a lot stronger really coming off the ACL because
when you can better understand one, there's the strength component,
but when you can better understand how to use the ground.
So let's just say, when I go to throw and
I lift my left foot in the air, one hundred
percent of the force that I'm putting in the ground
is through my right foot right because my left is
(17:55):
on the gund And then at some point when I'm
throwing the football, all that goes to the left foot,
my right foot leaves the guy. So it's really a
conversation around how much force am I putting into the
ground and how is that transfer from my back foot
to my front foot happening? When you can do that
and build it all the way up. And so for Joe,
like I said on the annual basis, he's coming off
of a very scary wrist injury. Yeah, we forget about
(18:17):
it now because he's like up for MVP, but like, well,
hold on, this was a rare one.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
This isn't an ACL that a million people get those.
This was a rare wrist injury. So he executed this
plan of having to recruit more things so come January
he doesn't have to compensate and pronator his wrist and
create an issue. And so whether you're increasing your velocity
or you're a big strong arm guy trying to get
more touch, it's the same thing. It's how am I
(18:43):
applying force to the ground and how is that transferring?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Jordan Palmer, it's great seeing you again.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Happy holidays. Your brother Carson Palmer now is coaching his son.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
At Santa Margarita. That's A's Trinity League up modern day
in Bosco.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Oh I sure, big boy football. Yeah, and his son's
pretty good right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
He's a good little player. Yeah, great SCENEI man, Thanks
for having me.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
All right, j Max Picks.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Next, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
Weekdays and Noone Easter not a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Welcome back our final segment of the week. We are
off tomorrow. It'll be the best of the Herd and
a Notre Dame Georgia. Tonight again postponed a one day
because of that awful tragedy in New Orleans. Thoughts and
prayers for the family and the people involved in one
of the most unique cities in America and New Orleans.
Of course, Fox Super Bowl this year. There so just
(19:37):
kind of an unspeakable tragedy and the game has been
appropriately moved back, and so we'll watch that tonight with
heavy hearts. Okay, j Mack. This is what he does
and he's been he's a sport. This is a very
hard week to handicap because you got people like Philadelphia
sitting on many of their best players. I saw Baltimore
(19:57):
was like an eighteen point favorite against Cleveland. It's a
it's up to nineteen. I just said, I've never seen
a nineteen point line in the NFL my life.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
Actually between two rivals, you know these it's like a
Baltimore Cleveland. These guys are always smashed mouth, somebody getting hurt.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, all right, so we call this segment Tomorrow's headlines
today is the headlines for the Bengals at the Steelers.
Speaker 6 (20:19):
Yeah, you know this is the Saturday night game. I'm
sure you can schedule around some Saturday night plans. You
got to watch Joe Burrow and what could be season finale.
Unless they make the playoffs, the headline will be mild
goose chase Bengals keep playoffs spot warm. I've got them
going into Pittsburgh and pulling the upset. Bengals favored in
this one. Now, listen a lot of this. The lines
(20:41):
are tricky this week. That's why you're not doing a
blazing five right.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Well, I'm off tomorrow, that's why.
Speaker 7 (20:45):
Well, also when we could have jammed one in here today.
Speaker 6 (20:47):
Oh, it's a little scared, But listen, some of the
everything's baked into the line about need to win and incentive.
So if Baltimore wins earlier against Cleveland, then Pittsburgh this
game doesn't really matter to them, except they would face
either Houston in the playoffs or Baltimore in the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Who would you rather face Houston?
Speaker 7 (21:06):
So Pittsburgh's gonna try in this. Yes, I just I
don't know what to make of them lately. They've lost
three straight. But Colin, here's the thing they've lost to
like good teams.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
When you lose to like Philadelphia, not the end of
the world. You lose to Baltimore, Yeah, Baltimore, it's not
the end of the world. But I think we would
agree Pittsburgh overachieved for most of the season. Yes, yeah,
we didn't think they'd be here. I think they guy
to keep an eye on is Russell Wilson, because, like
you said, is he gonna be the guy in Pittsburgh
next year if they totally crater like this amazing season
(21:34):
And there is somebody, a respected NFL voice at the
other networks taking some jabs at TJ. Watts numbers and
that they've kind of fallen down pressure rate and so forth.
Speaker 7 (21:44):
So I don't know, Pittsburgh may have peaked.
Speaker 6 (21:46):
A little early, and I think preroh, Chase and Higgins
go into Pittsburgh a tough place to win and get the.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Job done well. Burrow seems like he should be in
the playoffs because he's the only great quarterback that may
not make the playoffs. Generally, if you have somebody in
the top seven or eight as a quarterback, you make
the playoffs.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
I feel bad of saying that, like we want Burrow
in the playoffs because that.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
Would mean your game.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Let's be honest.
Speaker 7 (22:05):
Well, Nicks is out.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I think Cincinnati could go to Buffalo and win. Yeah,
with Burrow, I don't think Pittsburgh is gonna has a
chance to be to talk to you, Nicks go into
Pittsburgh about Buffalo win. No, but I think Joe Burrow
could and Shamar Chase and T Higgins. So Cincinnati's a
live play Tomorrow's headlines today, Saints had the Buccaneers pinch me.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Spreads on this one's fourteen? Yeah, Tampa big favorite could
could the Saints do it? The headline will be for
Evan's sake, Saints a bow down to the likes of Mike.
A lot of Mike Evans love on the show today.
He needs eighty five yards, of course to hit one thousand.
Speaker 7 (22:46):
Listen, this is a Tampa Bay team. I don't know.
They feel dangerous to me. You got the running backs.
You got to plan out of his mind. By the way, Baker,
mister chip on his shoulder. I saw they released the
Pro Bowls.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
The three quarters that make it.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
He didn't make it. It's Goff Darnold and Jayden Daniels.
You can't go wrong there. But you know, Baker chip
on his shoulder. If memory serves, I was on the
Bucks in the first Saints meeting in New Orleans, and
I think they dropped like fifty one points on the Saints.
I would not be shocked if we saw another close
to fifty. Now, maybe they shut it down early after
(23:21):
Evans gets his. But this is a Tampa team I
think is dangerous going to the playoffs. As for the Saints,
you keep talking about what job is good? I don't
know what to make of this team.
Speaker 7 (23:30):
You know the.
Speaker 6 (23:31):
Kamara's getting old and Carr that experiment hasn't worked.
Speaker 7 (23:36):
I don't know the direction they go.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
This could be the beginning of like a long dry
spell for New Orleans. Like if this is this an
attractive job? Is your guy, Mike Rabel Like, oh, can't
wait to get down to the Saints.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Listen, none of these jobs are attractive. If you have
a B quarterback or less, that's.
Speaker 7 (23:52):
Your car, even a B quarterback. We liked him with
the Raiders, liked.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Him Tomorrow's headlines Todays at the Raiders. I'll give Vegas credit.
They play their butt off and Tonio ap pears. This
team plays like there it's a playoff game. They play
with so much intensity.
Speaker 7 (24:10):
Yeah, I had a I don't know if I should
even admit this.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
I had a weird dream last night that we were
at a Super Bowl party and Brady was talking to
us and he's like, guys, they love Antonio Pierce in
the locker room. Everybody loves him, and we trying to
change Dartwo hearing that they do fight hard for him.
Speaker 7 (24:24):
However, the headline will.
Speaker 6 (24:27):
Be eight in the black Hole Chargers dealt Texans after
Raiders fold. This is a huge game for the Chargers
if they're able to avoid Baltimore and Justin Herbert can
then face the Texans on the road. I don't I
don't think the charge will be favored in that. But
you're getting the better quarterback, you're getting the better coach.
This is a huge game for the Chargers in Vegas
(24:49):
this weekend. They're four and a half point favorites.
Speaker 7 (24:51):
I like them. I'm on them here. Listen.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
Like you said, the Raiders are fighting hard. A little
bit of a different animal this Chargers defense, which made
Drake May He's struggled for much.
Speaker 7 (25:00):
Of that game.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
Oh yeah, I don't know what you know, mister Aidan
O'Connell is going to be able to do back there.
Speaker 7 (25:06):
But I like the Chargers in this one and the.
Speaker 6 (25:08):
Return of JK. Dobbins very positive sign. Derwin James was phenomenal.
I know he bagged on him a little bit, some
bad penal.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Well, he struggled in his career with some injuries, he
had bad penalties, but boy, he is locked in now
he was and they use him in the pass rush
like they love bringing him in.
Speaker 7 (25:23):
You get both and mac. I think Chargers win this.
I'm just telling you.
Speaker 6 (25:27):
If Chargers are able to face the Texans, I think
they can win that and that would be great to
get Justin Herbert AA playoff victory.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Tomorrow's headlines Today Chiefs are resting some dudes at Denver.
Speaker 7 (25:37):
What say you resting some dudes? He says, as the
line balloons to tennant half Kansas City nothing to play for.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I saw it, and I would rest guy. If I have
old veterans who have won rings like Chris Jones, don't
play Christians Travis Kelsey, let no agree, get snaps. This
is the one team in the league I would rest guys.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
Now there is the DeAndre Hopkins is allegedly close to
some bonuses, so some people think he may play.
Speaker 7 (26:03):
I don't know. We'll see, however, the headline will.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Be Boba Cabell.
Speaker 7 (26:10):
Her name is playoffs. Broncos have made them right like
you like it.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
So I got your guy, bo Nick's winning this game
in the playoffs. I don't know that that Barry Manilow
was that smooth. I really rehearse that well.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
But listen, this team has a real defense. They have
a great coach, they have a star receiver, a left tackle.
There's a lot of components to this team.
Speaker 6 (26:30):
I like the defense has been good, uh not great
as of late.
Speaker 7 (26:35):
Remember you know Jameis Winston cooked him for.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Like Justin Herbert had a good second happen.
Speaker 6 (26:39):
You're getting healthier in the secondary. I just I can't
really buy into that. I know they're your squad, and
Sean Payton's your guy, and he watches a lot, and
I don't want to bet.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Listen, I think there's a couple of teams that are
capable of making the playoffs, but not winning a game.
I don't know if Denver is ready to win a
playoff game. I don't know if Washington is ready to
win a playoff game. You sure, I'm not on Washington.
Denver feels like getting there is a big deal. I
don't know if Houston at home can win a playoff game.
(27:09):
I don't know if they can. But every year there's
a team that gets in and like they check boxes.
But getting there, like Miami, kind of feels like that
sometimes with Tua, like getting there is the story. They're
not going to cold Weather and winning.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
Yeah, Denver's a good story, and it almost feels, I
don't not quite the Titanic, but this thing was heading
very sideways heading into the season for Sean Payton, right,
it's like the Russell Wilson disaster, the low win total.
People are starting to wonder is Sean Payton even gonna
make it? And then here he is getting to the playoffs.
Pretty impressive stuff and you shout out to your boy
bo Nicks.
Speaker 7 (27:40):
Really well done.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Finally, Tomorrows headlines today the game of the weekend Vikings
at Detroit.
Speaker 7 (27:47):
So we could probably do thirty minutes on this game.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
It is just an excellent matchup Vikings Lions for the
division for the number one seed.
Speaker 7 (27:56):
The headline will.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
Be per Rain Burple Rain Vikes turn Motown into ghost Town.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
You lay up the bottles.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
I'm going with the mild upset. Now this is touch three.
So these sharp betterers are on Detroit. I just the
Vikings right now, man, they are. They're trending to me.
Speaker 7 (28:15):
Did you see what they did to the Packers for
three quarters?
Speaker 1 (28:18):
The Jefferson, Naylor, TJ. Hawkinson and Addison. The Lions don't
match up in the back end. They just don't match up.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Forty nineers were playing for nothing and Brock Perdy moved
them up and down the field seven point nine yards
per play. It kind of sort of feels to me
like Kevin O'Connell could be like, hey, you guys think
Ben Johnson's the best play caller. Wat's what I've got
and we see some stuff from the Vikings in this one.
I'm very excited for this matchup.
Speaker 7 (28:42):
Listen. I like Dan Campbell, love the story that defense.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
Just they can't get any stops calling, and I don't
know how they stop the Vikings here.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I don't disagree with you. I like Detroit, but I
don't disagree with you.
Speaker 7 (28:54):
You should take the three right.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Well, if it was three, I'd pass. If it was
three and a half, I wouldn't take Minnesota half.
Speaker 7 (29:01):
You take take the juice three, I'm taking the I'm
taking the field.
Speaker 6 (29:04):
Wal By the way, Dan Campbell loves to go for
two point conversions, so this could land on too.
Speaker 7 (29:10):
I'm I'm going with the Vikings here.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
By the way, we should end our show that targeting
call that wasn't called at Texas Arizona State. Listen Texas's
credit in overtime they made big throw so once they
got to overtime, they made big time plays and they
deserve all the love. But it is interesting. It was like,
you know how in the NBA Durant and Lebron met
(29:35):
in the NBA Finals years ago. Durant was OKC thunder
and there was a play in the baseline and it
was a foul and the ref did not want to
end the finals at the free throw line. When I
watched that play, my take was, they know what's targeting,
but nobody wants to have a penalty decide the fate
of a game. Now that sounds ridiculous, but I've seen
(29:57):
this in the NBA before where refs swallowed their w
soul in series deciding call. They just let the players
decide it and they let more go. And you know
in the NBA finals, J Mac, the NBA Playoffs get
more physical the further it goes. Refs do not want
to be this story.
Speaker 7 (30:12):
When was the last time the Chiefs are called for
holding in the Super Bowl?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
No?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
W When you get to the Super Bowl, everybody everybody,
there's not a lot of penalties in the Super Bowl.
Nobody wants to decide it when you get to the
final place. And I kind of felt like, I mean,
look at Dillingham's like a brother.
Speaker 6 (30:26):
I like the eye roll there because it was targeting.
I mean, I bore was laid out for like two
minutes beyond.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
The result, It's like the intention, the reason they have
this is it's helmet on helmet and to avoid concussions.
Well what happened. Yeah, But as I watched it, I thought, man,
I would not want to decide a football game on
a call like that. I know you're saying to yourself, well,
it's a penalty. You're right. I'm not disputing that. But
(30:54):
the first thing I thought of is lebron kd baseline.
Ref's like, nah, we're not going to the free line
for the finals. I'm out.
Speaker 6 (31:01):
I don't know if we have the fourth and thirteen
overtime throw from viewers for the touchdown.
Speaker 7 (31:06):
But that was a full house blitz. Arizona State brought.
Speaker 6 (31:09):
Everybody, and nobody could get through that offensive line. I
think it was like eight against five, eight against six.
That was an incredible throw by yours with the game
on the line.
Speaker 7 (31:17):
He made.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
He made.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
They are a splash offense. They averaged ten point seven
yards a pass and it had multiple three and outs.
So the consistency's awful, but they're splash plays. That's what
Texas football is. Ohio State, Penn State much more consistent.
They're a splash play team, all right, thanks so much,
Happy holidays. Off tomorrow
Thanks for listening to The Herd Podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sportsradio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening
to The Herd Podcast. No person in my life have
(00:22):
I ever met that knows more about quarterbacks than Jordan Palmer,
founder of QB Summit. He has worked with all of them,
the Burrows, the Mahomes, the Josh Allen's. He was the
first person to tip me off on Josh Allen. We
were talking about Donald and he said, keep your eye
on this Josh Allen kid before anybody else did. And
I got so many questions to ask you. I'm gonna
ask you about the rookie NFL quarterbacks. I'm gonna ask
(00:43):
you about Riley Leonard, who nobody's paying attention to, and
Jalen Milroe, who I think is better than people think.
But I want to start with this. You are right now.
I think you're an active quarterback consultant with Darnald so
Sam calls you regularly. What unlocked. We know Kevin O'Connor's
a good coach, but what un locked the star power,
the juice? What was unlocked? Because you always talk about
(01:04):
that on this show. We got to unlock something. What
was it with Sam Well?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
His talent hasn't changed, right, He hasn't grown too inches
since the draft. He hasn't gotten way faster. All these players'
careers should evolve. They're throwing mechanics should evolve, they're understanding
of defenses, so that there's been an evolution over the
last six years. The other thing is I don't think
he'd river really been through a ton of adversity, you
know in high school and college right kind of was
(01:30):
a meteoric deal here and then just getting drugg through
the mud for multiple years, getting traded away for nothing
I think hardened him. And yes, the Kevin O'Connell, the
pieces in the huddle. We don't need to spend time
talking about how good the Minnesota Viking's roster in front
office and coaching staff is because that's all everybody's talking about.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
The thing.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
The biggest thing for him that I've seen is that
in all of those years of kind of getting punched
in the gut, the media and the teams and traded
and all that. I just never saw him cut a corner.
I've never had this guy show at fifteen minutes late,
have to bail or I've just never seen it. And
the way that I work with him and Joe Burrow
as well, is it really is an annual relationship where, yes,
(02:11):
the off season we try and find similar to what
Tom Brady used to talk about, try and find one
or two things right, because when you get to the
level where you're playing, where Sam is right now and
Joe is right now.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
There's still an off season coming up. They're still going
to try and get better.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And so what we do is in the off season
we build the programming and look at what has been
working and what can you build on. And then in season,
every single week reviewing things. And there's three categories. One,
what are you doing great that you need to continue
to do great, let's highlight it. What do you need
to work on, which means you used to do it
better than you did and it's taking a step back.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
For whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
And then the third one is something to think about
maybe something showed up in somebody else's game, Sam's attention
and focus on those things, regardless of how bad it
was going, and right now how well it is going.
The fact that his approach hasn't changed, I think is
really actually like a superpower. Your willingness to buy in
find individual things to get better at is the superpower.
(03:06):
And there's a perfect example. So bye week, it was
week six. I think this year for them, he comes
out here and spend a day together, and at that
point this season, at that point in the season, I
think it was twenty four point eight percent of his misses,
not necessarily in completions, just a little off, was outbreaking
routes to the right. Identify a mechanical issue, not draw
(03:26):
on the shoulder in whatever the details were, address it,
Show how we can work on it at home, how
we can work on it in practice, what he can
add to warm ups. And from the bye week to
now he's got one miss on an outbreaking route to
the right and the ball slipped out of his hand.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Isn't that great? I love this stuff. I want him
to tell you a story, folks. So Josh Allen, he
was the first, got to tip me off on Josh Allen.
So Josh Allen now doesn't take the sacks and doesn't
throw picks, and there's a fascinating you go deep into
the numbers. It used to be a thing you after
a couple of years, found something rolling right that was
(04:00):
a problem. Tell the audience this story on Josh Allen.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well, I think what started the Josh Allen hype train
at Wyoming because it wasn't because they won it all
or when undefeated. Right, it was a play he made
versus Boise State. He's rolling right and he threw it
about forty five yards back corner of the end zone
and it was one of those well, I don't know
anybody who can make that throw right type of throws.
And then I think he was on Sports Illustrated and
they were maybe gonna have gamed and it just kind
(04:24):
of started to happen. Right, started to the hype train,
whatever that means, started to roll. And then he got
a lot of positive reinforcement from that. Right, Like, all
of a sudden, everyone's talking about you and you see
yourself on TV and they keep showing that play and
he's so good at it. So he would roll right,
and when he roll right, he would make unbelievable throws
down the field. And kept chasing it when he got
(04:44):
it early in the first two years, and Brian Dable
was you know, developing him and and really they were
developing that that team because Bills fans know this. Everyone
forget like his number one receiver his rookie year was
Kelvin Benjamin. Yeah, like this is not he didn't step
into some situation. But really, through the first two years,
I think he was high fifties completion percentage.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, and when he would roll right.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And at the time, I think I wrote it all down,
but it was, you know, rolling right. You've got this
many you know, ten touchdowns, fifteen unbelievable throws, thirteen picks
and a bunch of hits, a bunch of you getting
pushed or getting tackled and landing on your right shoulder,
and you only get so many of us.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
That's right to hear that. So he kept falling on
his right shoulder. You discovered that, and then.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It just it needs to become an asset because you
have the highest level.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Now what's happened to him?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Well, I think now teams are sitting here going we
can't let him roll right because he's not turning it over.
He's not taking unnecessary hits, and I think he's one
of the most dynamic runners, not at the quarterback position
in the league.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So I've never heard anybody even discuss this. You just
didn't like him falling on his right shoulder because your belief,
and it's true, is your body gives you about three
hundred of those and then it and then it availability.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
It's the whole Like, what's your best ability conversation?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Well, availability is okay, I want to talk about another
NFL quarterback. You're a very optimistic, positive quarterback guru. I,
of course tend to come off as cynical and negative.
I like rock Party, but I have the theory on
quarterbacks the if bucket after about three ifs I'm not
paying you starting with a five, you're a three or
(06:24):
a four. If it's not raining, if he gets protection,
if he has McCaffrey, if he's leading, the numbers tell
you trailing fourth quarter, you're not the same quite the
same quarterback. I couldn't pay brock of Fortune. I like him,
I don't love him. Why should I love him? What
do you see with him?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I think, Uh, were's so many ways for us to
come to a conclusion or an opinion on somebody. Right,
So stats depending on who you are and what you're
doing for a living, right like, stats is one tape
for certain people. If you're in the media, tapes less relevant.
If you're in a front office, stats are less relevant,
you know what I mean? Sure, depends on what context
you're looking at it through. I with Brock look at
(07:05):
it like what situations have we put him in and
how has he handled it? And when you've had a healthy,
good roster, he's basically played like one of the best
quarterbacks in the league, and at least in my opinion,
last season, the way that he yes, the plays that
he made, the mistakes that he didn't make and avoided,
but then the way that he went through the playoffs
and played great didn't change the whole leadership element that
(07:27):
really only the people in the building can speak to.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Right, We can all have opinions, but you're there.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
And Sam Darnold backed him U last year, so I
got a chance to hear just how mature and focused
and confident this guy remained all the way through the.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Super Bowl, Right, And so if we build.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Around him, this is a guy that I don't know
if it starts with the five, but it definitely starts
with a three or four. If you're asking me like
it's a yeah, you give him a ton of money,
you give him a three year deal. If the left
tackles hurt and the running backs out and the receivers out,
he's not as good. Well, if you pay the quarterback,
then John Lynch's job is to build around him. And
I think there's two things the Niners have done a
(08:07):
really good job of. One of them is evaluating talent,
finding good players. I don't know the name of the
running back who for them, who's playing well right now.
The second thing they've done is develop players. And so
if you're if you're a Niners fan, you go, let's
lock in brock Purty. I don't I don't like the
whole Franchise him and make him play it, make him
prove it. He's proven it, so pay him and then
(08:31):
do a great job of evaluating talent and and developing
the talent around him. And you know he may lose
debo this year for whatever reason. Well, you drafted Ricky
Pearsall in the first round. I think they did a
good job of evaluating talent. Now it's done to develop them.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I want to go. Let's talk a couple of rookies.
You have kind of an interesting belief on Caleb Williams,
who has had the roughest rookie season, And your belief is.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
What the talent is there, worthy of being the number
one pick, worthy of being a Heisman Trophy winner, worthy
of being the Elite eleven MVP and number one recruit
in the country. Like, that part hasn't changed for me.
I think, however, you want to classify this, I would
put it in the field.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Let's just use this word failure.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Okay, this hasn't been the CJ Stroud year from last year,
right or Jayden from this year. So for his standards,
which has been number one, number one and one, like
all the way through.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
This is a step back.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Whatever if this is classified as a failure, not that
it's his fault, right, all the pieces around him.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I think for guys who've had nothing but.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Success, a failure year where it didn't go the way
that you had envisioned, actually can be really good for
your growth. I think it's been really good for a
lot of people's growth in the background in the past.
I think it's been good for Sam Darnold's development. Just
like when we look at Josh Allen and we say
no offers had to go to Juca. Well, that was
(09:53):
failure early, it didn't work.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I think a healthy dose of a tough year for
the incredibly confident and incredibly talented players, which is what
Caleb Williams is. I think it can actually do wonders
and I think we're gonna see his best ball ahead
of him. And I'm not really concerned with Caleb's future
looking out. I think he's in a really tough spot
(10:17):
right now and he needs to get better. And for
the first time in his life, in his football career,
it's not just him wanting to get better.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
It's obvious he needs to improve. He needs to find
ways to improve.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I think that's healthy for the really elite thinkers, really
elite confidence guys, and the really elite talent.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
at noon eastern nine am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis, and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Why should you listen to Cavino and Rich.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world. We have a lot of fun talking
about the stories behind the stories in the world of
sports and pop culture, stories that well, other shows don't
seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact
that we've been friends for the last twenty years and
still work together.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I mean that says something, right, So check us out.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
We like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
chop it up.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
As they say, I'd.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
Say, the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe
the most interactive show on planetar. Be sure to check
out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and
the iHeartRadio app from five to seven pm Eastern two
to four Pacific, and if you miss any of the
live show, just search coven on Rich wherever you get
your podcasts, and of course on social media that's Covino
and Rich.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Okay, I got to ask you about two college guys,
because there will be a guy in this draft. I'm
targeting Riley Leonard. I'll get to him in a second
Notre Dame quarterback. I like him a lot, but again,
he came from Duke. It's a new system. Notre Dame
is asking a lot of him and it took a
while to get going. But he's been very good lately.
But Jalen Milroll's fascinating is he's a much better Anthony Richardson.
(12:04):
I like him. I would absolutely draft him, not as
my first quarterback, maybe not as my second. I think
he's a first round quarterback. What do you see You've
been so good on this through the years. What do
you see with Jalen Milroll that, if I'm right, that
makes him a first round quarterback?
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Well, I look for anybody looks for unique traits.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And when I say unique, I don't mean one of
the you know, unique, The word means like there's not
another one like it, that's right, right, And he has
two so one the first.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
One is at the athleticism.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I he's a client of mine. I've been a tusclos
a hndful of times this year. And the same thing
that I said with with Joe and Sam, it's I've
got ten college guys where we work throughout the entire year.
We talk every single week and go through things. I've
been out there that little Ryan Wims receiver, the rookie
goes out there. I go, hey, hey, how fast is
Jalen compared to the other guys on the team? Him
(12:58):
and other guys are like, well, Jents fastest kind of team.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Jal's faster than Williams.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I think Jalenn's the fastest kind of the team. I
aniny thing.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Guys at Albama would say that. So he's not gonna
run a fast forty. He's like the fastest guy in
the field. Okay, so that's unique faster than the others
by definition in Alabama, yeah, or on any field, and
so you go, Okay. The athleticism and get to full
speeds another thing, because a lot of guys have top
end speed. But you know, we saw guys like Vince
Young like that not necessarily translate the running in the
(13:27):
NFL because some guys it takes a lot longer to
get to their Their time might be fast.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
This is full speed like three steps.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So the athleticism is unique, and they'll be Lamar Jackson
comps in terms of you know, the draft and coming out,
but he's got like twenty pounds on lamar.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So he's a bigger, stronger.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Little mechanical for my taste. What do you make of that?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And I think, like I said earlier, everybody's throwing motion
mechanic like that all evolves. And what I have seen
from him is the buy and the attention to it
and the professionals and how he looks at developing it,
not just going I've got a super strong arm and
I'm gonna roll with it, which a lot of people do.
I don't think it's gonna affect anything moving forward. I
think the first one is the athleticis and the second
(14:09):
thing is his personality. Once he goes through this draft process,
folks like you, front offices teams meet him like this
dude's a magnet. This guy's a light like he is
that cool to be around. And so those two unique
traits will stand out as the process unfolds.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
The tape will be the tape.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
There's some good, there's some bad, like everybody, and I
think somebody's gonna fall in love with him, and he's
gonna go higher than some people thought, and as high
as I.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Thought, Riley Leonard, people roll their eyes at me. I
see a little Josh Allen, tall athletic. Marcus Freeman tells
me relentless competitor. He like all these young guys. Duke
didn't ask him to do what Notre dame Is didn't
love him. Early after about week five, six seven, I'm like,
(14:54):
I don't know, folks, tall, rangy, athletic, arm Is there
something there? Am I nuts?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Absolutely no, not nuts. I think this guy's gonna be
a really good player, really athletic.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
His basketball tapes insane.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, and just it shows up like some guys are
great basketball players and you would have you know, you
would have never known it. Some guys you watch their
tape and I tell you they're great basketball. You go, oh,
that makes sense, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
What I mean?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
And uh, And so with him, I think all the
mobility stuff that he has. I don't know what his
forty time is. I don't care. That part translates. Running
in the league as a quarterback is like the sum
of six and eight yard games. It's not the fifty
five years, right, right, yeah, right. And then I like
guys that have gone to another school for their last
year and played well because it's there's a lot of newness.
(15:39):
It's similar to a rookie year. Yeah, you go from
Duke to Notre Dame. It's not just new for you,
it's now it's Notre Dame. It's a new lot of schedule. Yeah,
the magnitude of it, all the stuff you gotta do.
You know they're gonna pay you, and I owe money.
That means you got to do a lot of stuff
right right, and you got to be a lot of
places and talk to a lot of people. And then
the new teammates and then they had a bad life
(16:00):
Austin Northern Illinois. Yeah, and it totally could have caved
and it didn't. They're on like an eight or nine
game heater. I think Marcus Freeman deserves a lot of
credit for that. I think Riley Leonard does two.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Okay, So it's called QB Summit. It's a program that
helps quarterbacks reach their potential. He's had Burrow golf, Trevor
Lawrence bow necks. By the way, bo nex you liked it,
Has it been what you thought?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah? I think so.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I think it's the perfect pairing between him and Sean
And there's so much of Bow's not just.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Game but personality.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
He's intense.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
It's similar to dew Brees right, very mature, he's married,
he's like, he's dealt with adversity.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
He kind of goess better than I thought.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And he's a lot more athletic than anybody getting credit for.
He moves, Yes, he moves, and so I think it's
been exactly what Sean Payton was hoping it would be
and the best balls ahead of him.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Did Sean call you?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
He did not, But but I I think he's I
think he got exactly what he was looking for.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
And yeah, I mean, he had so many starts in
college that you he was one of those you kind
of knew what you were getting. But I will say this,
I didn't think I thought his arm was Derek carr
Ish kind of in the same thing. And then I've
watched them deliver some deep throws and I'm like, well,
Aaron Rodgers' arm got stronger in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
It all evolves absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
And the way this guy approaches his development in his
game is like some of these other guys I've talked about,
where it's like he's doing it like he's been in
the league for a long time and already knows what
he needs to work on.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
How do you make I'm not that I'm going to
go out and throw football. How do you make your
arm stronger? Aaron's was strong in college. It's insane. Now
what's It's not a bench press? Is it plyometrics? What
is it?
Speaker 5 (17:34):
No?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I think it starts with the Burrow's a perfect example
because even though he torched college football, his arm has
gotten a lot stronger really coming off the ACL because
when you can better understand one, there's the strength component,
but when you can better understand how to use the ground.
So let's just say, when I go to throw and
I lift my left foot in the air, one hundred
percent of the force that I'm putting in the ground
is through my right foot right because my left is
(17:55):
on the gund And then at some point when I'm
throwing the football, all that goes to the left foot,
my right foot leaves the guy. So it's really a
conversation around how much force am I putting into the
ground and how is that transfer from my back foot
to my front foot happening? When you can do that
and build it all the way up. And so for Joe,
like I said on the annual basis, he's coming off
of a very scary wrist injury. Yeah, we forget about
(18:17):
it now because he's like up for MVP, but like, well,
hold on, this was a rare one.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
This isn't an ACL that a million people get those.
This was a rare wrist injury. So he executed this
plan of having to recruit more things so come January
he doesn't have to compensate and pronator his wrist and
create an issue. And so whether you're increasing your velocity
or you're a big strong arm guy trying to get
more touch, it's the same thing. It's how am I
(18:43):
applying force to the ground and how is that transferring?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Jordan Palmer, it's great seeing you again.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Happy holidays. Your brother Carson Palmer now is coaching his son.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
At Santa Margarita. That's A's Trinity League up modern day
in Bosco.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Oh I sure, big boy football. Yeah, and his son's
pretty good right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
He's a good little player. Yeah, great SCENEI man, Thanks
for having me.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
All right, j Max Picks.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Next, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
Weekdays and Noone Easter not a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Welcome back our final segment of the week. We are
off tomorrow. It'll be the best of the Herd and
a Notre Dame Georgia. Tonight again postponed a one day
because of that awful tragedy in New Orleans. Thoughts and
prayers for the family and the people involved in one
of the most unique cities in America and New Orleans.
Of course, Fox Super Bowl this year. There so just
(19:37):
kind of an unspeakable tragedy and the game has been
appropriately moved back, and so we'll watch that tonight with
heavy hearts. Okay, j Mack. This is what he does
and he's been he's a sport. This is a very
hard week to handicap because you got people like Philadelphia
sitting on many of their best players. I saw Baltimore
(19:57):
was like an eighteen point favorite against Cleveland. It's a
it's up to nineteen. I just said, I've never seen
a nineteen point line in the NFL my life.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
Actually between two rivals, you know these it's like a
Baltimore Cleveland. These guys are always smashed mouth, somebody getting hurt.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, all right, so we call this segment Tomorrow's headlines
today is the headlines for the Bengals at the Steelers.
Speaker 6 (20:19):
Yeah, you know this is the Saturday night game. I'm
sure you can schedule around some Saturday night plans. You
got to watch Joe Burrow and what could be season finale.
Unless they make the playoffs, the headline will be mild
goose chase Bengals keep playoffs spot warm. I've got them
going into Pittsburgh and pulling the upset. Bengals favored in
this one. Now, listen a lot of this. The lines
(20:41):
are tricky this week. That's why you're not doing a
blazing five right.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Well, I'm off tomorrow, that's why.
Speaker 7 (20:45):
Well, also when we could have jammed one in here today.
Speaker 6 (20:47):
Oh, it's a little scared, But listen, some of the
everything's baked into the line about need to win and incentive.
So if Baltimore wins earlier against Cleveland, then Pittsburgh this
game doesn't really matter to them, except they would face
either Houston in the playoffs or Baltimore in the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Who would you rather face Houston?
Speaker 7 (21:06):
So Pittsburgh's gonna try in this. Yes, I just I
don't know what to make of them lately. They've lost
three straight. But Colin, here's the thing they've lost to
like good teams.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
When you lose to like Philadelphia, not the end of
the world. You lose to Baltimore, Yeah, Baltimore, it's not
the end of the world. But I think we would
agree Pittsburgh overachieved for most of the season. Yes, yeah,
we didn't think they'd be here. I think they guy
to keep an eye on is Russell Wilson, because, like
you said, is he gonna be the guy in Pittsburgh
next year if they totally crater like this amazing season
(21:34):
And there is somebody, a respected NFL voice at the
other networks taking some jabs at TJ. Watts numbers and
that they've kind of fallen down pressure rate and so forth.
Speaker 7 (21:44):
So I don't know, Pittsburgh may have peaked.
Speaker 6 (21:46):
A little early, and I think preroh, Chase and Higgins
go into Pittsburgh a tough place to win and get the.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Job done well. Burrow seems like he should be in
the playoffs because he's the only great quarterback that may
not make the playoffs. Generally, if you have somebody in
the top seven or eight as a quarterback, you make
the playoffs.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
I feel bad of saying that, like we want Burrow
in the playoffs because that.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
Would mean your game.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Let's be honest.
Speaker 7 (22:05):
Well, Nicks is out.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I think Cincinnati could go to Buffalo and win. Yeah,
with Burrow, I don't think Pittsburgh is gonna has a
chance to be to talk to you, Nicks go into
Pittsburgh about Buffalo win. No, but I think Joe Burrow
could and Shamar Chase and T Higgins. So Cincinnati's a
live play Tomorrow's headlines today, Saints had the Buccaneers pinch me.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Spreads on this one's fourteen? Yeah, Tampa big favorite could
could the Saints do it? The headline will be for
Evan's sake, Saints a bow down to the likes of Mike.
A lot of Mike Evans love on the show today.
He needs eighty five yards, of course to hit one thousand.
Speaker 7 (22:46):
Listen, this is a Tampa Bay team. I don't know.
They feel dangerous to me. You got the running backs.
You got to plan out of his mind. By the way, Baker,
mister chip on his shoulder. I saw they released the
Pro Bowls.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
The three quarters that make it.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
He didn't make it. It's Goff Darnold and Jayden Daniels.
You can't go wrong there. But you know, Baker chip
on his shoulder. If memory serves, I was on the
Bucks in the first Saints meeting in New Orleans, and
I think they dropped like fifty one points on the Saints.
I would not be shocked if we saw another close
to fifty. Now, maybe they shut it down early after
(23:21):
Evans gets his. But this is a Tampa team I
think is dangerous going to the playoffs. As for the Saints,
you keep talking about what job is good? I don't
know what to make of this team.
Speaker 7 (23:30):
You know the.
Speaker 6 (23:31):
Kamara's getting old and Carr that experiment hasn't worked.
Speaker 7 (23:36):
I don't know the direction they go.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
This could be the beginning of like a long dry
spell for New Orleans. Like if this is this an
attractive job? Is your guy, Mike Rabel Like, oh, can't
wait to get down to the Saints.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Listen, none of these jobs are attractive. If you have
a B quarterback or less, that's.
Speaker 7 (23:52):
Your car, even a B quarterback. We liked him with
the Raiders, liked.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Him Tomorrow's headlines Todays at the Raiders. I'll give Vegas credit.
They play their butt off and Tonio ap pears. This
team plays like there it's a playoff game. They play
with so much intensity.
Speaker 7 (24:10):
Yeah, I had a I don't know if I should
even admit this.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
I had a weird dream last night that we were
at a Super Bowl party and Brady was talking to
us and he's like, guys, they love Antonio Pierce in
the locker room. Everybody loves him, and we trying to
change Dartwo hearing that they do fight hard for him.
Speaker 7 (24:24):
However, the headline will.
Speaker 6 (24:27):
Be eight in the black Hole Chargers dealt Texans after
Raiders fold. This is a huge game for the Chargers
if they're able to avoid Baltimore and Justin Herbert can
then face the Texans on the road. I don't I
don't think the charge will be favored in that. But
you're getting the better quarterback, you're getting the better coach.
This is a huge game for the Chargers in Vegas
(24:49):
this weekend. They're four and a half point favorites.
Speaker 7 (24:51):
I like them. I'm on them here. Listen.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
Like you said, the Raiders are fighting hard. A little
bit of a different animal this Chargers defense, which made
Drake May He's struggled for much.
Speaker 7 (25:00):
Of that game.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
Oh yeah, I don't know what you know, mister Aidan
O'Connell is going to be able to do back there.
Speaker 7 (25:06):
But I like the Chargers in this one and the.
Speaker 6 (25:08):
Return of JK. Dobbins very positive sign. Derwin James was phenomenal.
I know he bagged on him a little bit, some
bad penal.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Well, he struggled in his career with some injuries, he
had bad penalties, but boy, he is locked in now
he was and they use him in the pass rush
like they love bringing him in.
Speaker 7 (25:23):
You get both and mac. I think Chargers win this.
I'm just telling you.
Speaker 6 (25:27):
If Chargers are able to face the Texans, I think
they can win that and that would be great to
get Justin Herbert AA playoff victory.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Tomorrow's headlines Today Chiefs are resting some dudes at Denver.
Speaker 7 (25:37):
What say you resting some dudes? He says, as the
line balloons to tennant half Kansas City nothing to play for.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I saw it, and I would rest guy. If I have
old veterans who have won rings like Chris Jones, don't
play Christians Travis Kelsey, let no agree, get snaps. This
is the one team in the league I would rest guys.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
Now there is the DeAndre Hopkins is allegedly close to
some bonuses, so some people think he may play.
Speaker 7 (26:03):
I don't know. We'll see, however, the headline will.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Be Boba Cabell.
Speaker 7 (26:10):
Her name is playoffs. Broncos have made them right like
you like it.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
So I got your guy, bo Nick's winning this game
in the playoffs. I don't know that that Barry Manilow
was that smooth. I really rehearse that well.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
But listen, this team has a real defense. They have
a great coach, they have a star receiver, a left tackle.
There's a lot of components to this team.
Speaker 6 (26:30):
I like the defense has been good, uh not great
as of late.
Speaker 7 (26:35):
Remember you know Jameis Winston cooked him for.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Like Justin Herbert had a good second happen.
Speaker 6 (26:39):
You're getting healthier in the secondary. I just I can't
really buy into that. I know they're your squad, and
Sean Payton's your guy, and he watches a lot, and
I don't want to bet.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Listen, I think there's a couple of teams that are
capable of making the playoffs, but not winning a game.
I don't know if Denver is ready to win a
playoff game. I don't know if Washington is ready to
win a playoff game. You sure, I'm not on Washington.
Denver feels like getting there is a big deal. I
don't know if Houston at home can win a playoff game.
(27:09):
I don't know if they can. But every year there's
a team that gets in and like they check boxes.
But getting there, like Miami, kind of feels like that
sometimes with Tua, like getting there is the story. They're
not going to cold Weather and winning.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
Yeah, Denver's a good story, and it almost feels, I
don't not quite the Titanic, but this thing was heading
very sideways heading into the season for Sean Payton, right,
it's like the Russell Wilson disaster, the low win total.
People are starting to wonder is Sean Payton even gonna
make it? And then here he is getting to the playoffs.
Pretty impressive stuff and you shout out to your boy
bo Nicks.
Speaker 7 (27:40):
Really well done.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Finally, Tomorrows headlines today the game of the weekend Vikings
at Detroit.
Speaker 7 (27:47):
So we could probably do thirty minutes on this game.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
It is just an excellent matchup Vikings Lions for the
division for the number one seed.
Speaker 7 (27:56):
The headline will.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
Be per Rain Burple Rain Vikes turn Motown into ghost Town.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
You lay up the bottles.
Speaker 6 (28:07):
I'm going with the mild upset. Now this is touch three.
So these sharp betterers are on Detroit. I just the
Vikings right now, man, they are. They're trending to me.
Speaker 7 (28:15):
Did you see what they did to the Packers for
three quarters?
Speaker 1 (28:18):
The Jefferson, Naylor, TJ. Hawkinson and Addison. The Lions don't
match up in the back end. They just don't match up.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Forty nineers were playing for nothing and Brock Perdy moved
them up and down the field seven point nine yards
per play. It kind of sort of feels to me
like Kevin O'Connell could be like, hey, you guys think
Ben Johnson's the best play caller. Wat's what I've got
and we see some stuff from the Vikings in this one.
I'm very excited for this matchup.
Speaker 7 (28:42):
Listen. I like Dan Campbell, love the story that defense.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
Just they can't get any stops calling, and I don't
know how they stop the Vikings here.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I don't disagree with you. I like Detroit, but I
don't disagree with you.
Speaker 7 (28:54):
You should take the three right.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Well, if it was three, I'd pass. If it was
three and a half, I wouldn't take Minnesota half.
Speaker 7 (29:01):
You take take the juice three, I'm taking the I'm
taking the field.
Speaker 6 (29:04):
Wal By the way, Dan Campbell loves to go for
two point conversions, so this could land on too.
Speaker 7 (29:10):
I'm I'm going with the Vikings here.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
By the way, we should end our show that targeting
call that wasn't called at Texas Arizona State. Listen Texas's
credit in overtime they made big throw so once they
got to overtime, they made big time plays and they
deserve all the love. But it is interesting. It was like,
you know how in the NBA Durant and Lebron met
(29:35):
in the NBA Finals years ago. Durant was OKC thunder
and there was a play in the baseline and it
was a foul and the ref did not want to
end the finals at the free throw line. When I
watched that play, my take was, they know what's targeting,
but nobody wants to have a penalty decide the fate
of a game. Now that sounds ridiculous, but I've seen
(29:57):
this in the NBA before where refs swallowed their w
soul in series deciding call. They just let the players
decide it and they let more go. And you know
in the NBA finals, J Mac, the NBA Playoffs get
more physical the further it goes. Refs do not want
to be this story.
Speaker 7 (30:12):
When was the last time the Chiefs are called for
holding in the Super Bowl?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
No?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
W When you get to the Super Bowl, everybody everybody,
there's not a lot of penalties in the Super Bowl.
Nobody wants to decide it when you get to the
final place. And I kind of felt like, I mean,
look at Dillingham's like a brother.
Speaker 6 (30:26):
I like the eye roll there because it was targeting.
I mean, I bore was laid out for like two
minutes beyond.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
The result, It's like the intention, the reason they have
this is it's helmet on helmet and to avoid concussions.
Well what happened. Yeah, But as I watched it, I thought, man,
I would not want to decide a football game on
a call like that. I know you're saying to yourself, well,
it's a penalty. You're right. I'm not disputing that. But
(30:54):
the first thing I thought of is lebron kd baseline.
Ref's like, nah, we're not going to the free line
for the finals. I'm out.
Speaker 6 (31:01):
I don't know if we have the fourth and thirteen
overtime throw from viewers for the touchdown.
Speaker 7 (31:06):
But that was a full house blitz. Arizona State brought.
Speaker 6 (31:09):
Everybody, and nobody could get through that offensive line. I
think it was like eight against five, eight against six.
That was an incredible throw by yours with the game
on the line.
Speaker 7 (31:17):
He made.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
He made.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
They are a splash offense. They averaged ten point seven
yards a pass and it had multiple three and outs.
So the consistency's awful, but they're splash plays. That's what
Texas football is. Ohio State, Penn State much more consistent.
They're a splash play team, all right, thanks so much,
Happy holidays. Off tomorrow
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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