November 19, 2020 • 39 mins
This week on Wins & Losses, Clay Travis is joined by former Sacramento Kings broadcaster, Grant Napear. Grant made headlines over the summer when he was fired from his position of 32 years following a tweet in response to DeMarcus Cousins. Clay and Grant discuss his career as a broadcaster, go into detail regarding his departure from the Kings broadcast booth, and discuss the idea of cancel culture as a whole.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Wins and Losses with Clay Travis play talks
with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.
Now here's Clay Travis. Welcome in Clay Travis Wins and
Lost his podcast where we dive into a lot of
different angles of stories, sports, politics, business, you name it,
(00:23):
a lot of them. I'd encourage you to go check
them out if you enjoy this one. And we're about
to talk with the former Sacramento King's television announcer of
thirty two years, Grant Napier, as well as a twenty
six year local radio host in Sacramento. He lost his
job for saying all lives matter, uh during this past summer,
(00:45):
and so we're going to dive into that with him
and also his career. I think you're really gonna enjoy it.
And with that in mind, let's bring in Grant. I
want to start here because I just I don't know
a lot about your background. But how did you end
up as the voice of the Sacramento Kings in the
first place. How long did you do that job. Let's
kind of start back at the beginning. So, first of all,
(01:07):
thanks for coming on. Secondly, how did you get into sports.
First of all, it's great to be on your show.
I grew up outside of New York on Long Island
and grew up with, you know, really an amazing sports background.
We had season tickets for the Jets and the Giants.
Growing up, I was literally at an NFL game every
single Sunday. I would go to Rangers games at Madison
(01:27):
Square Garden, go to college games, and so I knew
really at about age nine or ten that I wanted
to be a broadcaster. I used to listen to Morrow Albert,
to the Knicks and the Rangers on radio, especially when
the Knicks won their championship in six seventy, and after
listening to Morrow do those games, I was like, That's
what I wanted to do. And so I just kind
of worked my way up the ladder I worked in.
(01:48):
I went to college at Bowling Green on a lacrosse
scholarship and they had a really good radio TV program.
And then I got a full time job in Decatur,
Illinois for three years, and went from Decatur to UH.
Sack Amento moved to Sacramento as a sports director at
a local TV station there in seven and then UH
the TV station won the rights to do the King's games,
(02:10):
and I was in the right place at the right time.
Clay and I ended up doing the Kings on TV
for thirty two years, and during that span, I was
fortunate enough to do the Raiders preseason games on TV
for five years. I built in and did some Sharks games,
did a lot of college football. So you know, in
a quick kind of capsule that that's my background to
get to the point that I did to be able
to do the Sacramento Kings for so long. So that's while,
(02:32):
let's go into that for a little bit. Thirty two
years of doing television broadcast of Sacramento Kings games. What
was your favorite time to be working and covering the team?
Was it? Unfortunately the tim donahe years when when you
had that series against the Lakers and that was so
incredibly riveting that people go back and look at the
(02:53):
calls that were made. Was that the peak? Who were
the players? What was the era that you enjoyed the most?
Two eras that I really enjoyed the most. The first
was when I first started doing in the nineteen because
I was still relatively young and to go to the
Great Western Form and my first game ever was up
in Portland, and they had Terry Porter and Clyde Drexler
and Jerome Kersey and you know that Buck Williams and
(03:15):
Kevin Duckworth and up in Portland. I was the first
game I ever did. And then going on the road
to Madison Square Garden where I grew up, or going
into the old Boston Garden and and just those venues,
to me, that was so special. But obviously there was
nothing quite like the early two thousands when you had
you know, Mike Bibby, and you had Patiosakovitch, and you
had Bloody Divots, and you had Chris Webber and Rick
(03:37):
Adaman was the coach, and you mentioned Tim Donnage the
b Again, a lot of people call it a conspiracy. Honestly, Clay,
I don't. But to this day, Game six of the
two thousand to Western Conference Finals is again to this day,
considered the worst officiated game in NBA history. And then
of course in Game seven, the Kings were at home.
They worked all the year to get the number one seed,
(03:58):
and they missed fourteen free throw on their home court
in Game seven. You certainly can't blame the referees for that,
and they ended up losing it over time to the Lakers,
But those were really the highlights for me that era.
And what was great for me back then, I did
a lot of the playoff games on radio because the
King's radio announcer, uh did a lot of Indie car racing,
(04:19):
and he was always at the Indian Applis five hundred
in May, So in addition to doing the games on TV,
I got a chance to announce most of those playoff
games against the Lakers on radio, and those were some
phenomenal games in that series. Those I'll remember those obviously forever.
Thirty two years doing games with the Sacramento Kings. How
would you say your relationships were with players over those
(04:41):
thirty two years in general, Well, a lot of the
players over the thirty two years today are still some
of my very good friends. Uh. Many of them have
reached out to me over the last couple of months,
particularly in June when all of this went down. I
would say in thirty two years, I had problems with
three players, one being DeMarcus Cousins, another being Chris Webber. Uh.
(05:04):
Those were two of the players that had some issues
with me. But I've had great relationships over the years.
First of all, you wouldn't have been able to last
for thirty two years if you didn't have great relationships
with not only the players, but the coaches, the general managers,
the ownership changes. So you know, I'm not bragging here,
but that's just the reality of the situation. If if
(05:26):
you're doing something that long, you're obviously doing something right.
But I mean, I played off with a lot of
the former Kings players. Again, a lot of the former
players have reached out to me, and to this day,
some of them are some of my best friends in life.
So let me go back a little bit too. For
people out there, you may not think about it. I'm
presuming most of the time you're traveling on for instance,
(05:46):
the team playing right when you're going and calling those games,
you don't travel separate. So you guys are interacting on
a day to day basis in a way that your
average person who covers a team doesn't. Right Like not
like you're a beat writer. You're almost a part of
the team as much as you are traveling. You know
these guys, well, I am a part of the team.
(06:06):
I'm paid by the team. What made my job maybe
more challenging and or um difficult is. I also hosted
a radio show in Sacramento in the King's flagship station
for twenty six years. So not only was I doing
the games, but then the next day I'd be on
the radio for four hours talking about that in the
NFL and everything else. But yes, I was a part
(06:28):
of the team. Other than my wife and my kids,
I considered the Sacramento Kings my family. I mean, it's
probably with the personnel on the Kings more than I
was with my family on the planes, checking in and
out of hotels, on the buses to the games. Very
often I'd be out having meals with some of the players.
I mean, that was life on the road, and so
(06:50):
it was family. But you know this, this is what
you do for a living. There are times when you
have to go on the radio and criticize, and if
you don't, you're gonna lose your credit ability. And a
couple of the players that had very thin skin, such
as de Marcus Cousins, they had a real problem with
being criticized. But I was just doing my job and
so that's just part of the deal. But yeah, I
(07:12):
was saying that that's my family, the Sacramento Kings for
thirty two years were really my extended family. And yes,
that's it would be impossible not to form lifelong friendships
and bonds with players and coaches. And that's just um,
it would be impossible to do that job to Clay
and not have lifelong relationships from from that entire spanning
(07:33):
five decades starting in with me. Okay, so this goes on,
Like you said, thirty two years of doing Sacramento Kings games,
twenty six years of doing local radio. Are the players
that are upset with you? You said maybe like three
guys over the years. Are they primarily upset for things
you'd say on radio or were they upset about things
(07:53):
you'd say on television? Or do you even have any idea? Well,
Chris Webber if you go to YouTube any and that's listing,
can go to YouTube and Google. Uh, you know Chris
Webber on the Grant Need Pier Show or Grant Nee
Pier phone call with Chris Webber. H. T and T
was in town seven years ago doing a game and
the Kings were not very good, and so they weren't
on T and T very often. Uh, you know, in
(08:15):
the last decade or so, and the broadcast crew was
Kevin Harland, Chris Webber, Reggie Miller, and Cheryl Miller was
the sideline reporter and the King. The game was on
a Thursday, and on Tuesday, the Kings had just had
a big city council meeting and the city council voted
uh in a in a positive way for a new arena.
And Cheryl Miller interviews Kevin Johnson in the middle of
(08:38):
the game, the mayor of Sacramento, former NBA player, and
she says, now that the city council voted down on
the arena, what are you gonna do now? And Kevin goes, no,
no, no no, no, Cheryl, we voted for the new arena, okay,
and they can. Then they throw it back to the
desk and Reggie Miller goes, once a politician, always a politician,
and Chris Webber, who's got his jersey number four hanging
up in the rafters, went along with it. Said, yeah,
(09:00):
it's really a shame. I've been in town for two
days and everyone's really upset. Blah bla blah blah. And
again that's also available on YouTube. So the next day
I had my producer reach out and Chris used to
do it daily a weekly radio show with me when
he played in Sacramento. I said, call up Chris and
get him on the air. We need to talk about
this because the fans were I rate. I was irate,
(09:20):
and I said, make sure that he knows why he's
coming on. Chris comes on my show, and we joked
because he's a big Lions fan. I'm a big Giants fan.
And he starts off with the joke and then I said, Chris,
I've got to ask you, you know, how is it
that everyone on T and T got that so wrong
last night? And he went off and he would not
allow me to talk and he basically threw it on me.
(09:42):
How I'm negative, how I'm critical, And I begged him
while we were on the air. I said, Chris, don't
hang up, Chris, don't hang up, Chris, don't hang up.
And he hung up the phone and it's all there
on YouTube. And since that day we've never spoken a word,
and he's had a match the ground with me. Unfortunately. Okay,
so well, And before we get into what happened in June,
(10:03):
I mean a lot of people out there listening to
us right now, they don't really know the Sacramento, California
market we're on nationwide. Everybody knows maybe their local geography,
their local region. What do the Kings mean to the
people of Sacramento so far as you could tell, based
on thirty two years as the voice of the Kings
and twenty six years doing local radio in that in
(10:26):
that city everything, the Kings are everything to the sports
fan in Sacramento. Even when they were horrible, the place
would be full every night. The King's almost moved on
a couple of occasions, and the outpouring of emotion the fans,
everything they did to try to keep that team was
absolutely incredible. The Sacramento Kings are Sacramento. It is the
(10:50):
only show in town. And um, it's kind of similar
to living in a big time college football town where
people can't wait for the basketball season to start. They
talk about it in the off season. They're they're just
obsessed with the team in Sacramento, and three years ago
they got a beautiful, brand new arena downtown and people
(11:11):
were so excited and they still are. But um, it's unbelievable. Clay,
I mean, I would compare it to the way the
Blazers fans are up in Portland. I think it's very
similar there, but the King's support over the years has
been tremendous because again, small community, clay and it is
the only show in town. It's interesting because a lot
(11:34):
of people out there, they think of California, and they
think of l A, and they think of San Francisco,
and they may think to a certain extent of San Diego.
But Sacramento, to your point, is more of a small town,
even though it's in a big state, RIGHTO. I'm just
trying to contextualize the the environment and uh in the
city for people out there who may not have been before.
(11:54):
It is it's it's basically a small town compared to
the other cities that you just mentioned, and they love
their Kings. They they have had so many years of failure,
a year after year after year, and again I talked
about the turbulent times when the Malou family owned the
team and they ended up selling it to Seattle only
(12:14):
to have you know, it's a it's a shame they
did a thirty for thirty on it and it never
aired because of the allegations that were released I think
by dead Spin back then on Mayor Kevin Johnson. Was
really a shame because I got a chance to go
to the Tribeckup Film Festival where was called Down in
the Valley. So a matter of fact that director Jason
Hair is the same director they just did the Last Dance.
(12:36):
But it was just an incredible story on the whole
Sacramento Kings, and I was featured a lot in that documentary. Um,
I don't know if you remember the video, but Jason
Hare told me, the director of of the thirty for
thirty that unfortunately was not released, he said the reason
why he started the idea of the documentary and because
(13:01):
of me breaking down on TV at the end of
the King's Lakers game with my broadcast partner Jerry Reynolds,
when we felt that was going to be the last
game ever played in Sacramento. And he said that he
saw me breakdown on camera at the end of the
game and everyone behind us was chanting Grant and Jerry.
Grant and Jerry, the fans want to leave the game,
(13:23):
and he said that's where he got the idea to do. So,
you know, again, this isn't about me, but I'm just
trying to paint the picture here the fans of Sacramento,
the Sacramento Kings and the fans the fans have always
felt a part of the team. They've always been able
to reach out. They have so many opportunities. The Kings
are very good about making the players successible. They have
so many events where the community is allowed to go
(13:45):
to the arena on and off day and and partaking
festivities with the players. It's a very unique situation. I
think that the Kings have always done a great job
with allowing their fan base access to their product, and
the bond has been great really for ever since. Obviously
there at nineteen I moved there in nineteen eight seven.
(14:06):
I've never really seen anything like it in the NBA.
We're talking to Grand Napier, all right, So all of
this background, thirty two years as on television with Sacramento
Kings live television, by the way, twenty six years live radio,
no issues. Everything seems to be going pretty well. June,
what happens. Well, I was sitting on my couch on
(14:30):
May thirty one, and I'm watching the Riots, and I'm
watching everything going on, and I'm like, man, this is
just awful. And um I picked up my phone and
I saw that there was a message to me from
DeMarcus Cousins asking me how I felt, how do I
feel about BLM and you know, just to give you
(14:50):
a real quick background, my dad was a civil rights activist.
My brother taught math for thirty four years at a
predominantly black high school on Long Island. On Long Island
in New York. I started a foundation in nearly two thousands.
It's called the Future Foundation. We've sent over a hundred
kids to college and we mentor them. Many of these
students are minorities, one third or black. And I hate
(15:11):
telling you because I hate putting uh people in groups.
I've never been about putting people in groups. To me
a person as a person, and I responded, all lives matter,
every single one. And I didn't think anything other because
that's how I feel, That's how I was raised, That's
that's how I was brought up. I believe all lives matter,
every single one, and I emphasized every single one with
(15:34):
I think three exclamation points, and all of a sudden,
within fifteen or twenty minutes, I knew that things were
blowing up. And when I woke up on Monday morning, um,
I was in the middle of a crisis. And by Tuesday,
at three pm Pacific time, uh, my career as I
knew it in Sacramento as a TV announcer for the
(15:57):
Kings and as a twenty six year talk show with
sports host on radio was gone. So this day, you
you send a tweet that says all lives matter, every
single one. What day of the week did you send that? Friday, Sunday,
May one, Sunday May thirty one? And by you lose
your job when Tuesday between two thirty and three pm
(16:22):
specific time. So both your radio job and your King's
announcer job, you lose both of those because you said
on Twitter, all lives matter, every single one. That's correct.
Within four within forty eight hours, my career as I
knew it in Sacramento did not exist anymore. I mean,
(16:44):
I think there's a lot of people out there listening
right now that are going to hear this and they're
gonna say that can't be the entirety of this. But
from your perspective, you had a job you were going
to be working, and you send a tweet that said
all lives matter, every single one, and within forty eight hours,
(17:04):
your thirty two year career on television and your twenty
six year career on radio or over that's correct, That
is absolutely correct. And you know that's June two and
I can't even begin to tell you what that period
of time was like from me. And as we fast
(17:27):
forward now to the middle of November, as I talked
to you, I've just been amazed that so many news outlets.
I saw myself being talked about on Fox, I saw
myself being talked about on CNN. Bill Maher did a
five minute uh segment on cancel culture, I think back
(17:48):
in August, and I was included on that. And I'm
just like, you know, the New York Post, I can
go on and on and talk about like people are
using me as an example of what's wrong with our
country and cancel culture. And I said this, and I
started a podcast back in October, and my first episode,
I said, the problem with our country right now, Clay,
(18:08):
is that nobody wants to spend five minutes before they
cancel someone. Nobody wants to spend five minutes peel back
the layers and look at an individual, look what they've done.
And it's it's such a shame. Um, It's such a
shame that you forget about me from itute. Such a
shame what's gone on in our country with cancel culture.
There are so many good people that have just been
(18:30):
boomed erased in a in an instant, and nobody wants
to peel back to layers and examine the individual. Fox
Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot
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s R to listen live. This is Clay Travis. You're
listening to the Winds and lost his podcast. We're talking
(18:51):
with our guest, Grant Napier. Okay, in the space of
forty eight hours after you send a tweet that says
all lives matter, every single one, with three exclamation points,
you lose your entire career. What was the private reaction?
You know everybody? You know a lot of people really
well in the NBA, with the amount of time that
(19:13):
you spend in the league, coaches, players, executives. What was
their private reaction versus what the public reaction was? Because
I give you what I bet, the answer is, I
bet privately a lot of people said this is very wrong.
I bet publicly very few of them said it. You
are correct. Privately, I've kept every single voicemail, I've kept
(19:36):
every single text message. I have kept a diary of
every single person that called me, and privately, the reaction
was unbelievably supportive. UH. Former players, some current players, former coaches,
former executives. UM. I can go on and on, many, many, many,
(20:01):
many of my colleagues around the NBA, both local and
national announcers. UH, like you have developed you know, quite
a bit of contacts through the National Football League, in
the National Hockey League. I received calls from people in
no sports. UH. Privately, it was absolutely unbelievable. It was
(20:24):
incredible publicly, because everybody was so scared of losing their
jobs or being labeled, there was nothing. Publicly, there was
nobody and I had I had so many of my
colleagues called me up and say, Grant, I can't believe this,
this is so wrong. And they would say, I just
want you to know I can't say anything publicly, and
(20:45):
I would say, I get it. I completely understand. You
don't want to be labeled. You don't want to lose
your job either. You're fearful, UH, your you're you can't
you can't speak how you honestly feel, because if you do,
the same thing is going to happen to you, that
happened to me, and so publicly it was silence, just
absolutely silent. And that's what's so overwhelmingly staggering about cancel
(21:09):
culture in general is almost everyone knows it's wrong, and
yet people are so afraid that the mob is going
to come after them that they're not even willing, by
and large, to speak out and say this is wrong, right,
because they're afraid that they're going to be the next target,
(21:30):
which is how these mobs get their power. It's fear, right,
It's fear that is overwhelmed. This is why I think
this is a significant conversation we're having because your story
comes in sports, but there are a huge percentage of
people out there and by the way, white, Black, Asian, Hispanic, gay, straight, religious,
not relily doesn't really matter. There's a huge percentage of
(21:52):
the American population that lives in fear that they are
a Facebook message and Instagram message, a tweet in your case,
away from losing everything. You had thirty two years of
television games to your background, twenty six years of radio
and sending all lives matter, every single one. You lose
(22:16):
all of that within forty eight hours. Yeah, and I
can't speak specifically about my departure with the Kings, but
what I would say is that I had many conversations
with colleagues that are currently broadcasters in various sports, and
they would call me up and we would speak for
an hour and they would go, Grant, i am so
(22:39):
nervous to go on the air. I'm afraid of saying
the wrong thing. I'm like, you're kidding me, and they go, no,
I'm really these are these are people that I've been
doing this for for five years. I was having a
conversation with professional broadcasters. You know this when you when
you're on live, you're on live. You know everything is spontaneous,
Like I don't have a script. I'm not writing things down.
I'm just sponn tenious when I talk on the air,
(23:01):
and I have when you're announcing a game, you're you're
you're you're had living the whole game. You don't you
don't have time to look. You're not writing anything down
and then reading it when you're broadcasting the lab event.
And I would have my colleagues go, man, I'm really nervous.
I'm nervous about going on the air and saying something
that I shouldn't, even though it would be innocent. And
I'm thinking to myself as I'm talking to my colleagues,
(23:24):
how awful is this that we live in a society
now which where you have to be now paranoid about
going on the air because you're afraid that you're gonna
say something that's going to be misconstrued. I mean, how
sad is that, Clay. It's terrifying, I mean, and I
think it's also emblematic of larger issues. Look, I don't
(23:44):
care about anybody's politics. I came out and said I
was voting for Donald Trump, and I said, one reason
I voted for Donald Trump was because I am completely
opposed to cancel culture. And I see cancel culture continuing
to get more and more control in this country on
a day to day basis. Grant that number of people
in my industry. I just want you to think about
this for a minute. I am on air on Fox
(24:06):
uh Fox FS one on television daily. I am the
only person at Fox Sports, at CBS Sports, at ABC, Slash, ESPN,
or at NBC Sports that I'm aware of that is
an employee that goes on the air and talks about
sports who has said that that he or she is
voting for Donald Trump. Only one right, seventies some odd
(24:31):
million people voted for the president of the United States.
Maybe Joe Biden is going to be the next president
United States. That's fine, it doesn't really matter to me.
Sometimes my candidates wins, sometimes they lose. But how crazy
is it that no one else in all of sports
is willing to say that they're voting for Donald Trump.
In my profession of sports media, I'm the only one.
(24:53):
It's not because I'm the only one you talk about
the private conversations. When I said that I was voting
for Trump, my phone blew up. People that all of
you know that are listening to me right now, white, black, Asian,
Hispanic people who watch you watch on television you read
a ton of them reached out and said, I'm doing
the same thing, but I am terrified to say it
(25:15):
publicly because in our industry I could get in trouble
for having that opinion, and your opinion, all lives matter,
every single one. That is supposed to be the reason
you're fired. I'm assuming because people decided that was a
racially insensitive thing to say. Is that right? Like that
was unsensitive? Right? That's correct, racially insensitive, that's I can
(25:41):
only I can only guess that. How else could it be.
I mean, all lives matter, every single one you helped
me out here. How is that a racist comment? I mean,
I don't understand that. I really don't, and I'll take
that to my grave. All lives matter, every single one
is steamed by some as racist. You know, I still
(26:02):
have people that reach out to me or strangers. Then
they go, you still don't get it, And my response is, no,
I don't think you get it. I get it completely. Okay,
I had my life completely turned upside down. I said,
I don't think you get it. When I have people
say that to me, they go, Grant, you know you
still don't. Or I see comments on whatever and people go,
well to you know, I listen to Grant's podcasts and
(26:24):
he talked about this, and boy, he still doesn't get it.
And I go, no, you don't get it. I think
I get it. Fun I think I have a complete understanding.
And I said this to my wife, and you know, again,
I'm not I'm not like patting myself on the back here,
but this is how my family lives, our life. My
wife went to Zambia with a couple of ladies last
summer for two weeks. Okay, I went to Zambia to
(26:46):
help out women and children in that country and ended
up having a phenomenal relationship with a lady over there,
and ended up having the lady come to California in
January of this year and live with her sister for
one week and live with us one week to show
her the American culture, show her life in a different
(27:10):
part of the country. And just like the experiences that
that's how my family lives. You know. I talked about
my brother, I talked about my father's you know, not
to get off on attention. Here in nineteen sixty three,
my father um got thirteen bus loads of people, okay,
thirteen bus loads of people at the Community Church of
New York to go to the march on Washington. All right.
(27:31):
That that's how I was raised. I was raised to
preach equality. I was raised equality, equality, equality. I was
raised to go out of your way, go above and
beyond for the black community. You know, not, no, you
need to do more for the black community. That's how
my dad raised us. And now I am losing my
(27:51):
career because I say all lives matter, every single one
with the complete intent of every single one means every
single race, Black, why, Asian, Hispanic? You just mentioned them all.
That's what's so appalling to me about not only my situation,
but others that have been canceled that have the same
viewpoint as me. Now, are there others, Clay that have
made comments like that are probably racist? Tell yeah, and
(28:14):
if we if we don't acknowledge that we're being stupid
in naive, but peel back the layers on each individual
before you just totally cancel someone. That's the part that
just is mind boggling to me. So where do you
go from here? Like what happens now? Because I'm I'm
I'm kind of utterly fascinated by a situation such as
this that happens. You've obviously started a podcast. I believe
(28:36):
you've moved out of Sacramento. Correct. Do you want? A
big thing obviously in life is things happen and you
continue to adjust your life as a result. What would
you like for the result of your situation to be?
I want my name cleared, That's what I want. I
(28:59):
want my name Stewart, and I know that's never going
to happen, and I mentioned that that matter, that matters
a great deal to you, that you are, that you
have been canceled, and that many people are willing to
believe that that's a justifiable reason that you were canceled for.
That you're racist, that you're a horrible human being, and
(29:19):
after thirty two years of TV, twenty six years of radio,
that still hangs over you, that that is the number
one thing that bothers you the most about losing your job. Absolutely.
I told my I told my wife this. I said,
you know, if I'm a racist, I hope every white
person in America is racist just like I am, because
then racism won't exist. And that's how I feel. You know,
(29:42):
I want my name restored, uh for But like those
that do use the term racist, you know, Matt Barnes
came out on Twitter, Barnes, can you believe this? And
said I'm a closet racist. And yet this is the
same guy that when he last played in Sacramento, had
a weekly show with me. He would come on my
radio show every week and then asked to play in
(30:04):
my golf tournament which we raise the money to send
our kids to college, and spent seven thousand dollars at
our auction. Okay, and yet I'm a closet racist, and
yet you're on the radio with me every week and
you are playing in my golf tournament. I mean what
I mean? I want? I want my name restored. Okay,
I want and and again I know him being naive here, Clay,
(30:26):
all right, because people are gonna believe what they want.
I know who I am. I have no problem putting
my head on the pillow at night. I've lost my
entire career, and the one thing I really hope is
that this doesn't happen to somebody else, and it already has.
But I'm really praying that other people don't have to
go through what I went through because it's just flat
out wrong. And I'm not having a pity party. I'm
(30:47):
not am not crying on your shoulder here. The reality
is that what's happening in America with cancel culture is
just flat out despicable. It's absolutely wrong. Last question for you,
DeMarcus Cousins. You said he didn't have a good relationship
with you. Do you feel like he was trying to
(31:08):
set you up to get fired? At the time, I
didn't even think about it. But in retrospect, yes, because
I think he knows enough about my background and what
I believe in. He knows about my relationships with other players,
which are very good, my friendships with other players. He
used to see me hanging out with other players. Um,
(31:29):
I can only say yes. I don't know that would
be a question for him. But in retrospect, um, I
think he and I haven't talked about this publicly until
just now. I think DeMarcus Cousins, Matt Barnes, and Chris
Weberck ganged up on me, and I think that they
had issues with what I said. You know, Matt Barnes
and DeMarcus Cousins, we had a game that was postponed
(31:51):
in Philadelphia because of condensation on the court, and they
were seen in the locker room with a bottle of Hennessey,
and they put it out on Instagram and social media.
And I went on my radio show and I and
how stupid is that? Why are you broadcasting that? If
you if you're gonna drink, drink, but don't broadcast it.
And then some and then was a short period of
time after they got into a brawl at a New
York nightclub and DeMarcus was on the sidewalk unaware that
(32:13):
somebody was videoing him on the phone, and he was
bragging about to fight in the nightclub and how Matt
Barnes had, you know, punched this girl, and and I
so what am I going to go on the radio
show and would ignore that? And that's their way of
getting back at me. And if you want to get
back at me, that's fine, but don't call me something
that I'm not. Those those individuals know who I am.
They know everything about my background and and and what
(32:36):
how hypocritical is that you're gonna come on my radio
show every week and you're gonna play in my golf tournament.
And then because I said something bad about you, Clay,
I don't know how you feel about this. We, as
white broadcasters in America, should be able to criticize a
person of a different ethnicity and not be called racist. Okay,
(32:58):
I can't do my job relief if I'm on my
radio show and I can't criticize a black athlete, a
white athlete, Hispanic athlete. That doesn't mean that I have
bias against you. I criticize all races. I criticize athletes
based on how they're performing or not. Coaches, how they're doing,
how they're not, has nothing to do with their ethnicity.
I don't sit there and go, Gene, you know what
(33:19):
that individual of black so let me rip him, let
me criticize him on the air. That never even enters
my mind. That's not how I operate. But unfortunately, if
you're a Caucasian broadcaster in America and you criticize an
African American athlete, there are those that are automatically insinuating
that you're racist. How awful is that, Clay? Seriously, how
sad is that? Well? I think it just builds on
(33:41):
identity politics in general, right, and and and this is
to me why identity politics and cancel culture are in
many ways connected, because the goal of anyone, in my opinion,
if you are in a business where you're looking and
trying to decipher who's good who's bad, and that's basically
the the opinion business of sports in general, right, should
(34:02):
be to be as completely fair and transparent and equal
to everyone as you possibly can be. Right. And so
this idea that we should have different standards for how
we talk about people based on what they look like
or based on their identity things that they cannot control.
Is inherently, at its most basic level racist, right. I
(34:23):
need to be able to talk, and you need to
be able to talk. Whether it's white, Black, Hispanic or Asian.
Everybody has to be able to talk to each other
as individuals, not as individuals who have an identity first, right.
And so this is why my analogy has been that
that I think is is interesting. I don't care. We
see all the time now on television people say as
(34:45):
a as a Hispanic transgender woman. I believe right, people
will say things like that all of that I don't
care about. Your argument is either good or bad based
on the quality of the argument, not based upon the
identity behind which you are standing. And I take it
back all the time too. It reminds me of royalty.
(35:08):
If you remember, if you study history at all, people
used to say they had the divine right of kings,
and so people who were noblemen or people who were
in positions of prominence in Europe back in the days
of feudal realms, they would say, as the third Lord,
you know, Montleroy of the Mount Botten, you know, and
the vice chancellor of they put all these huge list
(35:31):
of assignations before their name, and then they would say,
I believe what my thing is. I only care about
the quality of your argument. I don't care about everything
that you're using as justification for why your opinion matters.
You either have a good opinion rooted in facts that
sound and factual and and and worthy of respect, or
(35:52):
you have a bad opinion, and what you look like
shouldn't impact what that opinion is. And so I think
the identity politics era has created the cancel culture era.
They're intertwined, and I think they're both frankly not popular
right because they all connect to the politically correct universe,
which overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly a huge percentage of people of all
(36:15):
different backgrounds reject them. And I like to think that
at some point cancel culture is going to explode and
feed on itself. And whether you're a comedian who people
are going through and saying, oh, you can't make that joke,
or whether you're somebody going through and saying, oh my god,
that tweet or that Instagram post or that Facebook post,
I don't know why the first response is we have
(36:36):
to cancel this person. It doesn't make sense to me. Well, again,
look at Jack Nicholas. I did a rant on this
a couple of weeks ago. He comes out and say
he's voting for Trump, and you it was it was
if Jack Nicholas never existed and people were killing him.
I went on my rams said, you know, I don't
really give a damn who you vote for. It doesn't
matter to me. I'm a diehard New York Giants fans
season ticket holder. I don't care who the merrittisches vote for.
(36:58):
It makes no difference to me. I'm a fan of
the team. But yet there are people out there that
are just completely eliminating friendships, family members, or who you
vote for. It's mind boggling. Not to get off of
a tangent, but I watched what you said when you
said you were voting for Trump, and what struck me
so amazing is that you talked about who you voted
for in previous elections, and I believe most of them
(37:20):
were Democrats, And so you're you're not just some guy
that's on the far right Republican Republican Republicans. No, you're
looking at each candidate and you're voting for you you
think is the best person for this country. I respect
that even if I don't agree with that, I respect
that and for you to lay it out the way
you did, And yet people still have a problem with that,
that's said, that's that's that's wrong. It's just flat out wrong.
(37:42):
And I know a lot of I have a lot
of friends that told me that they ended long term
friendships because of who they were voting for. And I'm
scratching my head and I'm like, I don't get that.
You vote for who you want, I vote for who
I want. We can have an adult conversation and at
the end of the day, I respect you. I sure
(38:03):
as hell hope you respect me. And we move on
and we put our arms around each other and we
try to make our country better, even if you are
a Trump supporter or you're a Biden supporter, whoever you support. Okay,
at the end of the day, we're gonna have a
new president on January twenty two. And you know what,
as Americans, we owe it to come together and try
to make this country better. And that that doesn't exist anymore.
(38:24):
And that is a real said indictment on our children
and our grandchildren that are growing up. What kind of
country are we leaving them? It's awful. It's terrible. Be
sure to catch live editions about kick the Coverage with
Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern, three am Pacific.
This is Clay Travis. You're listening to the Winds and
Losses podcast. We're talking with Grant Napier. Grant one more time.
(38:44):
Where can people follow you if they want to reach out?
Appreciate the time you spend on the show today, and
hope it helps to get your story out there. I
appreciate it. My Twitter handle is at Grant Napier Show.
I started my podcast in October. I've had some great progress.
Charles Barkley was on one episode. It's if you don't
like that, If you don't like that with Grant nap
Here and Clay, I really appreciated that. It's a great conversation.
(39:07):
I hope we educated others, and I really hope people
become better from listening to conversations like this, because that,
to me, is what it's all about. Amen. I hope
all of you think a little bit about this and
the larger cancel culture environment that we have created. I
hope this conversation makes things a little bit better. That's
the goal anyway, And I hope you enjoyed this as well.
If you did, go rate us. Also go listen at
(39:30):
all of our other podcasts that are out there. We
have a lot of great ones. I think you'll enjoy them.
This is the Wins and Losses Podcast without Kick and
I'm Clay Travis
This is Wins and Losses with Clay Travis play talks
with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.
Now here's Clay Travis. Welcome in Clay Travis Wins and
Lost his podcast where we dive into a lot of
different angles of stories, sports, politics, business, you name it,
(00:23):
a lot of them. I'd encourage you to go check
them out if you enjoy this one. And we're about
to talk with the former Sacramento King's television announcer of
thirty two years, Grant Napier, as well as a twenty
six year local radio host in Sacramento. He lost his
job for saying all lives matter, uh during this past summer,
(00:45):
and so we're going to dive into that with him
and also his career. I think you're really gonna enjoy it.
And with that in mind, let's bring in Grant. I
want to start here because I just I don't know
a lot about your background. But how did you end
up as the voice of the Sacramento Kings in the
first place. How long did you do that job. Let's
kind of start back at the beginning. So, first of all,
(01:07):
thanks for coming on. Secondly, how did you get into sports.
First of all, it's great to be on your show.
I grew up outside of New York on Long Island
and grew up with, you know, really an amazing sports background.
We had season tickets for the Jets and the Giants.
Growing up, I was literally at an NFL game every
single Sunday. I would go to Rangers games at Madison
(01:27):
Square Garden, go to college games, and so I knew
really at about age nine or ten that I wanted
to be a broadcaster. I used to listen to Morrow Albert,
to the Knicks and the Rangers on radio, especially when
the Knicks won their championship in six seventy, and after
listening to Morrow do those games, I was like, That's
what I wanted to do. And so I just kind
of worked my way up the ladder I worked in.
(01:48):
I went to college at Bowling Green on a lacrosse
scholarship and they had a really good radio TV program.
And then I got a full time job in Decatur,
Illinois for three years, and went from Decatur to UH.
Sack Amento moved to Sacramento as a sports director at
a local TV station there in seven and then UH
the TV station won the rights to do the King's games,
(02:10):
and I was in the right place at the right time.
Clay and I ended up doing the Kings on TV
for thirty two years, and during that span, I was
fortunate enough to do the Raiders preseason games on TV
for five years. I built in and did some Sharks games,
did a lot of college football. So you know, in
a quick kind of capsule that that's my background to
get to the point that I did to be able
to do the Sacramento Kings for so long. So that's while,
(02:32):
let's go into that for a little bit. Thirty two
years of doing television broadcast of Sacramento Kings games. What
was your favorite time to be working and covering the team?
Was it? Unfortunately the tim donahe years when when you
had that series against the Lakers and that was so
incredibly riveting that people go back and look at the
(02:53):
calls that were made. Was that the peak? Who were
the players? What was the era that you enjoyed the most?
Two eras that I really enjoyed the most. The first
was when I first started doing in the nineteen because
I was still relatively young and to go to the
Great Western Form and my first game ever was up
in Portland, and they had Terry Porter and Clyde Drexler
and Jerome Kersey and you know that Buck Williams and
(03:15):
Kevin Duckworth and up in Portland. I was the first
game I ever did. And then going on the road
to Madison Square Garden where I grew up, or going
into the old Boston Garden and and just those venues,
to me, that was so special. But obviously there was
nothing quite like the early two thousands when you had
you know, Mike Bibby, and you had Patiosakovitch, and you
had Bloody Divots, and you had Chris Webber and Rick
(03:37):
Adaman was the coach, and you mentioned Tim Donnage the
b Again, a lot of people call it a conspiracy. Honestly, Clay,
I don't. But to this day, Game six of the
two thousand to Western Conference Finals is again to this day,
considered the worst officiated game in NBA history. And then
of course in Game seven, the Kings were at home.
They worked all the year to get the number one seed,
(03:58):
and they missed fourteen free throw on their home court
in Game seven. You certainly can't blame the referees for that,
and they ended up losing it over time to the Lakers,
But those were really the highlights for me that era.
And what was great for me back then, I did
a lot of the playoff games on radio because the
King's radio announcer, uh did a lot of Indie car racing,
(04:19):
and he was always at the Indian Applis five hundred
in May, So in addition to doing the games on TV,
I got a chance to announce most of those playoff
games against the Lakers on radio, and those were some
phenomenal games in that series. Those I'll remember those obviously forever.
Thirty two years doing games with the Sacramento Kings. How
would you say your relationships were with players over those
(04:41):
thirty two years in general, Well, a lot of the
players over the thirty two years today are still some
of my very good friends. Uh. Many of them have
reached out to me over the last couple of months,
particularly in June when all of this went down. I
would say in thirty two years, I had problems with
three players, one being DeMarcus Cousins, another being Chris Webber. Uh.
(05:04):
Those were two of the players that had some issues
with me. But I've had great relationships over the years.
First of all, you wouldn't have been able to last
for thirty two years if you didn't have great relationships
with not only the players, but the coaches, the general managers,
the ownership changes. So you know, I'm not bragging here,
but that's just the reality of the situation. If if
(05:26):
you're doing something that long, you're obviously doing something right.
But I mean, I played off with a lot of
the former Kings players. Again, a lot of the former
players have reached out to me, and to this day,
some of them are some of my best friends in life.
So let me go back a little bit too. For
people out there, you may not think about it. I'm
presuming most of the time you're traveling on for instance,
(05:46):
the team playing right when you're going and calling those games,
you don't travel separate. So you guys are interacting on
a day to day basis in a way that your
average person who covers a team doesn't. Right Like not
like you're a beat writer. You're almost a part of
the team as much as you are traveling. You know
these guys, well, I am a part of the team.
(06:06):
I'm paid by the team. What made my job maybe
more challenging and or um difficult is. I also hosted
a radio show in Sacramento in the King's flagship station
for twenty six years. So not only was I doing
the games, but then the next day I'd be on
the radio for four hours talking about that in the
NFL and everything else. But yes, I was a part
(06:28):
of the team. Other than my wife and my kids,
I considered the Sacramento Kings my family. I mean, it's
probably with the personnel on the Kings more than I
was with my family on the planes, checking in and
out of hotels, on the buses to the games. Very
often I'd be out having meals with some of the players.
I mean, that was life on the road, and so
(06:50):
it was family. But you know this, this is what
you do for a living. There are times when you
have to go on the radio and criticize, and if
you don't, you're gonna lose your credit ability. And a
couple of the players that had very thin skin, such
as de Marcus Cousins, they had a real problem with
being criticized. But I was just doing my job and
so that's just part of the deal. But yeah, I
(07:12):
was saying that that's my family, the Sacramento Kings for
thirty two years were really my extended family. And yes,
that's it would be impossible not to form lifelong friendships
and bonds with players and coaches. And that's just um,
it would be impossible to do that job to Clay
and not have lifelong relationships from from that entire spanning
(07:33):
five decades starting in with me. Okay, so this goes on,
Like you said, thirty two years of doing Sacramento Kings games,
twenty six years of doing local radio. Are the players
that are upset with you? You said maybe like three
guys over the years. Are they primarily upset for things
you'd say on radio or were they upset about things
(07:53):
you'd say on television? Or do you even have any idea? Well,
Chris Webber if you go to YouTube any and that's listing,
can go to YouTube and Google. Uh, you know Chris
Webber on the Grant Need Pier Show or Grant Nee
Pier phone call with Chris Webber. H. T and T
was in town seven years ago doing a game and
the Kings were not very good, and so they weren't
on T and T very often. Uh, you know, in
(08:15):
the last decade or so, and the broadcast crew was
Kevin Harland, Chris Webber, Reggie Miller, and Cheryl Miller was
the sideline reporter and the King. The game was on
a Thursday, and on Tuesday, the Kings had just had
a big city council meeting and the city council voted
uh in a in a positive way for a new arena.
And Cheryl Miller interviews Kevin Johnson in the middle of
(08:38):
the game, the mayor of Sacramento, former NBA player, and
she says, now that the city council voted down on
the arena, what are you gonna do now? And Kevin goes, no,
no, no no, no, Cheryl, we voted for the new arena, okay,
and they can. Then they throw it back to the
desk and Reggie Miller goes, once a politician, always a politician,
and Chris Webber, who's got his jersey number four hanging
up in the rafters, went along with it. Said, yeah,
(09:00):
it's really a shame. I've been in town for two
days and everyone's really upset. Blah bla blah blah. And
again that's also available on YouTube. So the next day
I had my producer reach out and Chris used to
do it daily a weekly radio show with me when
he played in Sacramento. I said, call up Chris and
get him on the air. We need to talk about
this because the fans were I rate. I was irate,
(09:20):
and I said, make sure that he knows why he's
coming on. Chris comes on my show, and we joked
because he's a big Lions fan. I'm a big Giants fan.
And he starts off with the joke and then I said, Chris,
I've got to ask you, you know, how is it
that everyone on T and T got that so wrong
last night? And he went off and he would not
allow me to talk and he basically threw it on me.
(09:42):
How I'm negative, how I'm critical, And I begged him
while we were on the air. I said, Chris, don't
hang up, Chris, don't hang up, Chris, don't hang up.
And he hung up the phone and it's all there
on YouTube. And since that day we've never spoken a word,
and he's had a match the ground with me. Unfortunately. Okay,
so well, And before we get into what happened in June,
(10:03):
I mean a lot of people out there listening to
us right now, they don't really know the Sacramento, California
market we're on nationwide. Everybody knows maybe their local geography,
their local region. What do the Kings mean to the
people of Sacramento so far as you could tell, based
on thirty two years as the voice of the Kings
and twenty six years doing local radio in that in
(10:26):
that city everything, the Kings are everything to the sports
fan in Sacramento. Even when they were horrible, the place
would be full every night. The King's almost moved on
a couple of occasions, and the outpouring of emotion the fans,
everything they did to try to keep that team was
absolutely incredible. The Sacramento Kings are Sacramento. It is the
(10:50):
only show in town. And um, it's kind of similar
to living in a big time college football town where
people can't wait for the basketball season to start. They
talk about it in the off season. They're they're just
obsessed with the team in Sacramento, and three years ago
they got a beautiful, brand new arena downtown and people
(11:11):
were so excited and they still are. But um, it's unbelievable. Clay,
I mean, I would compare it to the way the
Blazers fans are up in Portland. I think it's very
similar there, but the King's support over the years has
been tremendous because again, small community, clay and it is
the only show in town. It's interesting because a lot
(11:34):
of people out there, they think of California, and they
think of l A, and they think of San Francisco,
and they may think to a certain extent of San Diego.
But Sacramento, to your point, is more of a small town,
even though it's in a big state, RIGHTO. I'm just
trying to contextualize the the environment and uh in the
city for people out there who may not have been before.
(11:54):
It is it's it's basically a small town compared to
the other cities that you just mentioned, and they love
their Kings. They they have had so many years of failure,
a year after year after year, and again I talked
about the turbulent times when the Malou family owned the
team and they ended up selling it to Seattle only
(12:14):
to have you know, it's a it's a shame they
did a thirty for thirty on it and it never
aired because of the allegations that were released I think
by dead Spin back then on Mayor Kevin Johnson. Was
really a shame because I got a chance to go
to the Tribeckup Film Festival where was called Down in
the Valley. So a matter of fact that director Jason
Hair is the same director they just did the Last Dance.
(12:36):
But it was just an incredible story on the whole
Sacramento Kings, and I was featured a lot in that documentary. Um,
I don't know if you remember the video, but Jason
Hare told me, the director of of the thirty for
thirty that unfortunately was not released, he said the reason
why he started the idea of the documentary and because
(13:01):
of me breaking down on TV at the end of
the King's Lakers game with my broadcast partner Jerry Reynolds,
when we felt that was going to be the last
game ever played in Sacramento. And he said that he
saw me breakdown on camera at the end of the
game and everyone behind us was chanting Grant and Jerry.
Grant and Jerry, the fans want to leave the game,
(13:23):
and he said that's where he got the idea to do. So,
you know, again, this isn't about me, but I'm just
trying to paint the picture here the fans of Sacramento,
the Sacramento Kings and the fans the fans have always
felt a part of the team. They've always been able
to reach out. They have so many opportunities. The Kings
are very good about making the players successible. They have
so many events where the community is allowed to go
(13:45):
to the arena on and off day and and partaking
festivities with the players. It's a very unique situation. I
think that the Kings have always done a great job
with allowing their fan base access to their product, and
the bond has been great really for ever since. Obviously
there at nineteen I moved there in nineteen eight seven.
(14:06):
I've never really seen anything like it in the NBA.
We're talking to Grand Napier, all right, So all of
this background, thirty two years as on television with Sacramento
Kings live television, by the way, twenty six years live radio,
no issues. Everything seems to be going pretty well. June,
what happens. Well, I was sitting on my couch on
(14:30):
May thirty one, and I'm watching the Riots, and I'm
watching everything going on, and I'm like, man, this is
just awful. And um I picked up my phone and
I saw that there was a message to me from
DeMarcus Cousins asking me how I felt, how do I
feel about BLM and you know, just to give you
(14:50):
a real quick background, my dad was a civil rights activist.
My brother taught math for thirty four years at a
predominantly black high school on Long Island. On Long Island
in New York. I started a foundation in nearly two thousands.
It's called the Future Foundation. We've sent over a hundred
kids to college and we mentor them. Many of these
students are minorities, one third or black. And I hate
(15:11):
telling you because I hate putting uh people in groups.
I've never been about putting people in groups. To me
a person as a person, and I responded, all lives matter,
every single one. And I didn't think anything other because
that's how I feel, That's how I was raised, That's
that's how I was brought up. I believe all lives matter,
every single one, and I emphasized every single one with
(15:34):
I think three exclamation points, and all of a sudden,
within fifteen or twenty minutes, I knew that things were
blowing up. And when I woke up on Monday morning, um,
I was in the middle of a crisis. And by Tuesday,
at three pm Pacific time, uh, my career as I
knew it in Sacramento as a TV announcer for the
(15:57):
Kings and as a twenty six year talk show with
sports host on radio was gone. So this day, you
you send a tweet that says all lives matter, every
single one. What day of the week did you send that? Friday, Sunday,
May one, Sunday May thirty one? And by you lose
your job when Tuesday between two thirty and three pm
(16:22):
specific time. So both your radio job and your King's
announcer job, you lose both of those because you said
on Twitter, all lives matter, every single one. That's correct.
Within four within forty eight hours, my career as I
knew it in Sacramento did not exist anymore. I mean,
(16:44):
I think there's a lot of people out there listening
right now that are going to hear this and they're
gonna say that can't be the entirety of this. But
from your perspective, you had a job you were going
to be working, and you send a tweet that said
all lives matter, every single one, and within forty eight hours,
(17:04):
your thirty two year career on television and your twenty
six year career on radio or over that's correct, That
is absolutely correct. And you know that's June two and
I can't even begin to tell you what that period
of time was like from me. And as we fast
(17:27):
forward now to the middle of November, as I talked
to you, I've just been amazed that so many news outlets.
I saw myself being talked about on Fox, I saw
myself being talked about on CNN. Bill Maher did a
five minute uh segment on cancel culture, I think back
(17:48):
in August, and I was included on that. And I'm
just like, you know, the New York Post, I can
go on and on and talk about like people are
using me as an example of what's wrong with our
country and cancel culture. And I said this, and I
started a podcast back in October, and my first episode,
I said, the problem with our country right now, Clay,
(18:08):
is that nobody wants to spend five minutes before they
cancel someone. Nobody wants to spend five minutes peel back
the layers and look at an individual, look what they've done.
And it's it's such a shame. Um, It's such a
shame that you forget about me from itute. Such a
shame what's gone on in our country with cancel culture.
There are so many good people that have just been
(18:30):
boomed erased in a in an instant, and nobody wants
to peel back to layers and examine the individual. Fox
Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot
com and within the I Heart Radio app search f
s R to listen live. This is Clay Travis. You're
listening to the Winds and lost his podcast. We're talking
(18:51):
with our guest, Grant Napier. Okay, in the space of
forty eight hours after you send a tweet that says
all lives matter, every single one, with three exclamation points,
you lose your entire career. What was the private reaction?
You know everybody? You know a lot of people really
well in the NBA, with the amount of time that
(19:13):
you spend in the league, coaches, players, executives. What was
their private reaction versus what the public reaction was? Because
I give you what I bet, the answer is, I
bet privately a lot of people said this is very wrong.
I bet publicly very few of them said it. You
are correct. Privately, I've kept every single voicemail, I've kept
(19:36):
every single text message. I have kept a diary of
every single person that called me, and privately, the reaction
was unbelievably supportive. UH. Former players, some current players, former coaches,
former executives. UM. I can go on and on, many, many, many,
(20:01):
many of my colleagues around the NBA, both local and
national announcers. UH, like you have developed you know, quite
a bit of contacts through the National Football League, in
the National Hockey League. I received calls from people in
no sports. UH. Privately, it was absolutely unbelievable. It was
(20:24):
incredible publicly, because everybody was so scared of losing their
jobs or being labeled, there was nothing. Publicly, there was
nobody and I had I had so many of my
colleagues called me up and say, Grant, I can't believe this,
this is so wrong. And they would say, I just
want you to know I can't say anything publicly, and
(20:45):
I would say, I get it. I completely understand. You
don't want to be labeled. You don't want to lose
your job either. You're fearful, UH, your you're you can't
you can't speak how you honestly feel, because if you do,
the same thing is going to happen to you, that
happened to me, and so publicly it was silence, just
absolutely silent. And that's what's so overwhelmingly staggering about cancel
(21:09):
culture in general is almost everyone knows it's wrong, and
yet people are so afraid that the mob is going
to come after them that they're not even willing, by
and large, to speak out and say this is wrong, right,
because they're afraid that they're going to be the next target,
(21:30):
which is how these mobs get their power. It's fear, right,
It's fear that is overwhelmed. This is why I think
this is a significant conversation we're having because your story
comes in sports, but there are a huge percentage of
people out there and by the way, white, Black, Asian, Hispanic, gay, straight, religious,
not relily doesn't really matter. There's a huge percentage of
(21:52):
the American population that lives in fear that they are
a Facebook message and Instagram message, a tweet in your case,
away from losing everything. You had thirty two years of
television games to your background, twenty six years of radio
and sending all lives matter, every single one. You lose
(22:16):
all of that within forty eight hours. Yeah, and I
can't speak specifically about my departure with the Kings, but
what I would say is that I had many conversations
with colleagues that are currently broadcasters in various sports, and
they would call me up and we would speak for
an hour and they would go, Grant, i am so
(22:39):
nervous to go on the air. I'm afraid of saying
the wrong thing. I'm like, you're kidding me, and they go, no,
I'm really these are these are people that I've been
doing this for for five years. I was having a
conversation with professional broadcasters. You know this when you when
you're on live, you're on live. You know everything is spontaneous,
Like I don't have a script. I'm not writing things down.
I'm just sponn tenious when I talk on the air,
(23:01):
and I have when you're announcing a game, you're you're
you're you're had living the whole game. You don't you
don't have time to look. You're not writing anything down
and then reading it when you're broadcasting the lab event.
And I would have my colleagues go, man, I'm really nervous.
I'm nervous about going on the air and saying something
that I shouldn't, even though it would be innocent. And
I'm thinking to myself as I'm talking to my colleagues,
(23:24):
how awful is this that we live in a society
now which where you have to be now paranoid about
going on the air because you're afraid that you're gonna
say something that's going to be misconstrued. I mean, how
sad is that, Clay. It's terrifying, I mean, and I
think it's also emblematic of larger issues. Look, I don't
(23:44):
care about anybody's politics. I came out and said I
was voting for Donald Trump, and I said, one reason
I voted for Donald Trump was because I am completely
opposed to cancel culture. And I see cancel culture continuing
to get more and more control in this country on
a day to day basis. Grant that number of people
in my industry. I just want you to think about
this for a minute. I am on air on Fox
(24:06):
uh Fox FS one on television daily. I am the
only person at Fox Sports, at CBS Sports, at ABC, Slash, ESPN,
or at NBC Sports that I'm aware of that is
an employee that goes on the air and talks about
sports who has said that that he or she is
voting for Donald Trump. Only one right, seventies some odd
(24:31):
million people voted for the president of the United States.
Maybe Joe Biden is going to be the next president
United States. That's fine, it doesn't really matter to me.
Sometimes my candidates wins, sometimes they lose. But how crazy
is it that no one else in all of sports
is willing to say that they're voting for Donald Trump.
In my profession of sports media, I'm the only one.
(24:53):
It's not because I'm the only one you talk about
the private conversations. When I said that I was voting
for Trump, my phone blew up. People that all of
you know that are listening to me right now, white, black, Asian,
Hispanic people who watch you watch on television you read
a ton of them reached out and said, I'm doing
the same thing, but I am terrified to say it
(25:15):
publicly because in our industry I could get in trouble
for having that opinion, and your opinion, all lives matter,
every single one. That is supposed to be the reason
you're fired. I'm assuming because people decided that was a
racially insensitive thing to say. Is that right? Like that
was unsensitive? Right? That's correct, racially insensitive, that's I can
(25:41):
only I can only guess that. How else could it be.
I mean, all lives matter, every single one you helped
me out here. How is that a racist comment? I mean,
I don't understand that. I really don't, and I'll take
that to my grave. All lives matter, every single one
is steamed by some as racist. You know, I still
(26:02):
have people that reach out to me or strangers. Then
they go, you still don't get it, And my response is, no,
I don't think you get it. I get it completely. Okay,
I had my life completely turned upside down. I said,
I don't think you get it. When I have people
say that to me, they go, Grant, you know you
still don't. Or I see comments on whatever and people go,
well to you know, I listen to Grant's podcasts and
(26:24):
he talked about this, and boy, he still doesn't get it.
And I go, no, you don't get it. I think
I get it. Fun I think I have a complete understanding.
And I said this to my wife, and you know, again,
I'm not I'm not like patting myself on the back here,
but this is how my family lives, our life. My
wife went to Zambia with a couple of ladies last
summer for two weeks. Okay, I went to Zambia to
(26:46):
help out women and children in that country and ended
up having a phenomenal relationship with a lady over there,
and ended up having the lady come to California in
January of this year and live with her sister for
one week and live with us one week to show
her the American culture, show her life in a different
(27:10):
part of the country. And just like the experiences that
that's how my family lives. You know. I talked about
my brother, I talked about my father's you know, not
to get off on attention. Here in nineteen sixty three,
my father um got thirteen bus loads of people, okay,
thirteen bus loads of people at the Community Church of
New York to go to the march on Washington. All right.
(27:31):
That that's how I was raised. I was raised to
preach equality. I was raised equality, equality, equality. I was
raised to go out of your way, go above and
beyond for the black community. You know, not, no, you
need to do more for the black community. That's how
my dad raised us. And now I am losing my
(27:51):
career because I say all lives matter, every single one
with the complete intent of every single one means every
single race, Black, why, Asian, Hispanic? You just mentioned them all.
That's what's so appalling to me about not only my situation,
but others that have been canceled that have the same
viewpoint as me. Now, are there others, Clay that have
made comments like that are probably racist? Tell yeah, and
(28:14):
if we if we don't acknowledge that we're being stupid
in naive, but peel back the layers on each individual
before you just totally cancel someone. That's the part that
just is mind boggling to me. So where do you
go from here? Like what happens now? Because I'm I'm
I'm kind of utterly fascinated by a situation such as
this that happens. You've obviously started a podcast. I believe
(28:36):
you've moved out of Sacramento. Correct. Do you want? A
big thing obviously in life is things happen and you
continue to adjust your life as a result. What would
you like for the result of your situation to be?
I want my name cleared, That's what I want. I
(28:59):
want my name Stewart, and I know that's never going
to happen, and I mentioned that that matter, that matters
a great deal to you, that you are, that you
have been canceled, and that many people are willing to
believe that that's a justifiable reason that you were canceled for.
That you're racist, that you're a horrible human being, and
(29:19):
after thirty two years of TV, twenty six years of radio,
that still hangs over you, that that is the number
one thing that bothers you the most about losing your job. Absolutely.
I told my I told my wife this. I said,
you know, if I'm a racist, I hope every white
person in America is racist just like I am, because
then racism won't exist. And that's how I feel. You know,
(29:42):
I want my name restored, uh for But like those
that do use the term racist, you know, Matt Barnes
came out on Twitter, Barnes, can you believe this? And
said I'm a closet racist. And yet this is the
same guy that when he last played in Sacramento, had
a weekly show with me. He would come on my
radio show every week and then asked to play in
(30:04):
my golf tournament which we raise the money to send
our kids to college, and spent seven thousand dollars at
our auction. Okay, and yet I'm a closet racist, and
yet you're on the radio with me every week and
you are playing in my golf tournament. I mean what
I mean? I want? I want my name restored. Okay,
I want and and again I know him being naive here, Clay,
(30:26):
all right, because people are gonna believe what they want.
I know who I am. I have no problem putting
my head on the pillow at night. I've lost my
entire career, and the one thing I really hope is
that this doesn't happen to somebody else, and it already has.
But I'm really praying that other people don't have to
go through what I went through because it's just flat
out wrong. And I'm not having a pity party. I'm
(30:47):
not am not crying on your shoulder here. The reality
is that what's happening in America with cancel culture is
just flat out despicable. It's absolutely wrong. Last question for you,
DeMarcus Cousins. You said he didn't have a good relationship
with you. Do you feel like he was trying to
(31:08):
set you up to get fired? At the time, I
didn't even think about it. But in retrospect, yes, because
I think he knows enough about my background and what
I believe in. He knows about my relationships with other players,
which are very good, my friendships with other players. He
used to see me hanging out with other players. Um,
(31:29):
I can only say yes. I don't know that would
be a question for him. But in retrospect, um, I
think he and I haven't talked about this publicly until
just now. I think DeMarcus Cousins, Matt Barnes, and Chris
Weberck ganged up on me, and I think that they
had issues with what I said. You know, Matt Barnes
and DeMarcus Cousins, we had a game that was postponed
(31:51):
in Philadelphia because of condensation on the court, and they
were seen in the locker room with a bottle of Hennessey,
and they put it out on Instagram and social media.
And I went on my radio show and I and
how stupid is that? Why are you broadcasting that? If
you if you're gonna drink, drink, but don't broadcast it.
And then some and then was a short period of
time after they got into a brawl at a New
York nightclub and DeMarcus was on the sidewalk unaware that
(32:13):
somebody was videoing him on the phone, and he was
bragging about to fight in the nightclub and how Matt
Barnes had, you know, punched this girl, and and I
so what am I going to go on the radio
show and would ignore that? And that's their way of
getting back at me. And if you want to get
back at me, that's fine, but don't call me something
that I'm not. Those those individuals know who I am.
They know everything about my background and and and what
(32:36):
how hypocritical is that you're gonna come on my radio
show every week and you're gonna play in my golf tournament.
And then because I said something bad about you, Clay,
I don't know how you feel about this. We, as
white broadcasters in America, should be able to criticize a
person of a different ethnicity and not be called racist. Okay,
(32:58):
I can't do my job relief if I'm on my
radio show and I can't criticize a black athlete, a
white athlete, Hispanic athlete. That doesn't mean that I have
bias against you. I criticize all races. I criticize athletes
based on how they're performing or not. Coaches, how they're doing,
how they're not, has nothing to do with their ethnicity.
I don't sit there and go, Gene, you know what
(33:19):
that individual of black so let me rip him, let
me criticize him on the air. That never even enters
my mind. That's not how I operate. But unfortunately, if
you're a Caucasian broadcaster in America and you criticize an
African American athlete, there are those that are automatically insinuating
that you're racist. How awful is that, Clay? Seriously, how
sad is that? Well? I think it just builds on
(33:41):
identity politics in general, right, and and and this is
to me why identity politics and cancel culture are in
many ways connected, because the goal of anyone, in my opinion,
if you are in a business where you're looking and
trying to decipher who's good who's bad, and that's basically
the the opinion business of sports in general, right, should
(34:02):
be to be as completely fair and transparent and equal
to everyone as you possibly can be. Right. And so
this idea that we should have different standards for how
we talk about people based on what they look like
or based on their identity things that they cannot control.
Is inherently, at its most basic level racist, right. I
(34:23):
need to be able to talk, and you need to
be able to talk. Whether it's white, Black, Hispanic or Asian.
Everybody has to be able to talk to each other
as individuals, not as individuals who have an identity first, right.
And so this is why my analogy has been that
that I think is is interesting. I don't care. We
see all the time now on television people say as
(34:45):
a as a Hispanic transgender woman. I believe right, people
will say things like that all of that I don't
care about. Your argument is either good or bad based
on the quality of the argument, not based upon the
identity behind which you are standing. And I take it
back all the time too. It reminds me of royalty.
(35:08):
If you remember, if you study history at all, people
used to say they had the divine right of kings,
and so people who were noblemen or people who were
in positions of prominence in Europe back in the days
of feudal realms, they would say, as the third Lord,
you know, Montleroy of the Mount Botten, you know, and
the vice chancellor of they put all these huge list
(35:31):
of assignations before their name, and then they would say,
I believe what my thing is. I only care about
the quality of your argument. I don't care about everything
that you're using as justification for why your opinion matters.
You either have a good opinion rooted in facts that
sound and factual and and and worthy of respect, or
(35:52):
you have a bad opinion, and what you look like
shouldn't impact what that opinion is. And so I think
the identity politics era has created the cancel culture era.
They're intertwined, and I think they're both frankly not popular
right because they all connect to the politically correct universe,
which overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly a huge percentage of people of all
(36:15):
different backgrounds reject them. And I like to think that
at some point cancel culture is going to explode and
feed on itself. And whether you're a comedian who people
are going through and saying, oh, you can't make that joke,
or whether you're somebody going through and saying, oh my god,
that tweet or that Instagram post or that Facebook post,
I don't know why the first response is we have
(36:36):
to cancel this person. It doesn't make sense to me. Well, again,
look at Jack Nicholas. I did a rant on this
a couple of weeks ago. He comes out and say
he's voting for Trump, and you it was it was
if Jack Nicholas never existed and people were killing him.
I went on my rams said, you know, I don't
really give a damn who you vote for. It doesn't
matter to me. I'm a diehard New York Giants fans
season ticket holder. I don't care who the merrittisches vote for.
(36:58):
It makes no difference to me. I'm a fan of
the team. But yet there are people out there that
are just completely eliminating friendships, family members, or who you
vote for. It's mind boggling. Not to get off of
a tangent, but I watched what you said when you
said you were voting for Trump, and what struck me
so amazing is that you talked about who you voted
for in previous elections, and I believe most of them
(37:20):
were Democrats, And so you're you're not just some guy
that's on the far right Republican Republican Republicans. No, you're
looking at each candidate and you're voting for you you
think is the best person for this country. I respect
that even if I don't agree with that, I respect
that and for you to lay it out the way
you did, And yet people still have a problem with that,
that's said, that's that's that's wrong. It's just flat out wrong.
(37:42):
And I know a lot of I have a lot
of friends that told me that they ended long term
friendships because of who they were voting for. And I'm
scratching my head and I'm like, I don't get that.
You vote for who you want, I vote for who
I want. We can have an adult conversation and at
the end of the day, I respect you. I sure
(38:03):
as hell hope you respect me. And we move on
and we put our arms around each other and we
try to make our country better, even if you are
a Trump supporter or you're a Biden supporter, whoever you support. Okay,
at the end of the day, we're gonna have a
new president on January twenty two. And you know what,
as Americans, we owe it to come together and try
to make this country better. And that that doesn't exist anymore.
(38:24):
And that is a real said indictment on our children
and our grandchildren that are growing up. What kind of
country are we leaving them? It's awful. It's terrible. Be
sure to catch live editions about kick the Coverage with
Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern, three am Pacific.
This is Clay Travis. You're listening to the Winds and
Losses podcast. We're talking with Grant Napier. Grant one more time.
(38:44):
Where can people follow you if they want to reach out?
Appreciate the time you spend on the show today, and
hope it helps to get your story out there. I
appreciate it. My Twitter handle is at Grant Napier Show.
I started my podcast in October. I've had some great progress.
Charles Barkley was on one episode. It's if you don't
like that, If you don't like that with Grant nap
Here and Clay, I really appreciated that. It's a great conversation.
(39:07):
I hope we educated others, and I really hope people
become better from listening to conversations like this, because that,
to me, is what it's all about. Amen. I hope
all of you think a little bit about this and
the larger cancel culture environment that we have created. I
hope this conversation makes things a little bit better. That's
the goal anyway, And I hope you enjoyed this as well.
If you did, go rate us. Also go listen at
(39:30):
all of our other podcasts that are out there. We
have a lot of great ones. I think you'll enjoy them.
This is the Wins and Losses Podcast without Kick and
I'm Clay Travis
Host
Clay Travis
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