July 8, 2024 • 40 mins
Gary Tanguay filled in on NightSide:
Boston Red Sox Insider and NBC Sports Boston columnist John Tomase joined Gary to discuss Boston sports news including the Celtics sale and why he thinks buying at the trade deadline is the best move for the Red Sox.
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio!
Boston Red Sox Insider and NBC Sports Boston columnist John Tomase joined Gary to discuss Boston sports news including the Celtics sale and why he thinks buying at the trade deadline is the best move for the Red Sox.
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray. I'mWBZY Boston's Me Radio. All right,
Dan Watkins, thanks buddy, Garytangling in for Dan Ray tonight. As
he just said, great show sofar this season. Talked to Boston Globe
Political Enterprise reporter and plot off greatstuff on New Hampshire, how New Hampshire
(00:22):
could be key to the Trump presidentialrace and now Trump was sending money up
to the Granite State because of what'sgoing on with the circus in Washington.
Good stuff there also, But Ihad a little fun at the opening of
the show. Looking back at Friday, I didn't have a chance to comment
on some some of President Biden's comments, whether It's twenty two infommercial with George
(00:45):
Stepanopolis. I mean George did hisbest, but I mean, come on,
hey, listen. If I'm Biden'speople, he does not debate.
He does not debate again, justdoesn't happen, and maybe people will forget
about it. Generation Zay or Smartmy nephew Noah tech m Collins, who's
actually a millennial Yet to remind metalking about young people in their work ethic
(01:07):
today and know so Darryl Wright fromERTZ and Young talking about that. So
if you miss that and you're justjoining us, you can check it out
on the podcast. Well, you'llbe up on WBZ dot com. Joining
us right now is my old teammateif you will. That's a sports thing.
John Tomassi joins us FROMBC Sports Boston. Want to talk about these Red
Sox want to talk about the potentialCeltic's ownership. But first up, I'm
(01:30):
going to give John Tomassey a chanceto make any political statements. John,
do you have anything to say aboutthe world of politics. Oh, this
is bringing me back to my daysof the Morning show, our old shared
days on the morning show. Listen. I am a lefty, I'm as
left as you're gonna get, andI would love for Biden to step aside
(01:53):
and for maybe one of those Midwestgovernors to take his place. But I'm
not sure anyone wants to look tothe sports writer talk politics, although I
probably won't be able to help myself. Okay, what about Karen Reid?
Any thoughts on that trial which willdefinitely be a Karen Reid. Yeah.
I will say this as a Mansfieldnative, I would like Mancefield to be
(02:15):
in the news for something other thanKaren Reid. I believe in my heart
that she probably hit him. Ialso believe she probably didn't mean to.
And I have a hard time believingthat the cops master plan was to drag
the guy in, beat him todeath or nearly to death, feed him
(02:35):
to their dog, then put himon their own front lawn, and google
how long it would take him todie. Like I just that none of
that adds up to me. SoI wouldn't have convicted her based on all
the awful stuff that the cops did, and certainly Michael Proctor seems like a
star witness for the defense. ButI desperately hope that this thing doesn't get
(02:58):
tried again. I know the lateststuff day was set the jurors or trying
to say, you know that twoof the charges they thought you should be
acquitted on. Maybe this thing canjust go away. Well I think it
probably should, but I don't knowif the DA will let that happen because
of political pressure. And it wasjust in the spotlight so much, you
know, if this wasn't really atelevision show, which is what it was,
(03:22):
unfortunately, and people forgot that agood man died. If it wasn't
a television show. It might goaway, but I don't know if it
because of that purpose. I don'tknow if the DA will let that happen
anyways, Tomas Man, I'm justI'll just say, very quickly, if
you're the DA, you really wantto do this all again and be embarrassed
again? And if you're the cops, do you want to do this again
(03:44):
and probably have more of your dirtylaundry out there. I don't know.
It seems like everyone has already takensuch a hit on this. I kind
of have a hard time seeing thepoint of continuing. Well, I would
let it go away too, butI think the DA may be thinking,
listen, this was a victory forus because quite frankly, when you look
at the evidence, I mean,look, it was an accident. I
agree, however it happened. Idon't think anybody meant to murder the man.
(04:08):
Unfortunately. I just think it wasan accident. So I thought it
was going to be not guilty becausethey didn't have enough evidence. I thought
the DA would be psyched that theygot this. So I don't know,
John, who knows what's going tohappen. But again, we all know
that attorneys and politicians love the spotlight, and believe me, the spotlight was
(04:30):
on them. So anyways, TOMASI, let's get to the fun and games
the Red Sox right now, andwe don't have to get into the on
field strategy. But I could notbe more happier. I love Alex Korra.
I love the fact that these guysare playing for him. Do you
think he'll resign or is he goingto tell John Henry and company to take
a hike and go to work forsomebody else. Yeah? I mean if
(04:51):
you followed baseball, then you knowlast winter, Craig Capsel, who's the
manager of the Brewers, got amassive forty million dollar contract to jump to
the Cubs. It was the biggestcontract ever given a manager in baseball.
Craig Counsel has never won a WorldSeries. Alex Cora has. Alex Cora
is going to be a free agentwhen the season is over. And we
(05:12):
very rarely talk about managers as freeagents. We talk about them as lame
ducks. No one is really callingAlex Cora lame duck, even though that's
what he is, because they knowthat free agency is out there, and
if you've watched the job that hehas done with this team, a very
young Red Sox team. There wereno expectations. The one pitcher they signed
in the offseason blow at his armbefore the season even started. They were
(05:33):
supposed to be bad. They finishedlast a couple of years in a row.
This year was supposed to be nodifferent. Yet here we are.
They have three young All Stars.They're in playoff position. If the season
ended today, they'd be in theplayoffs. It is largely due to Alex
Cora. Our friend Dan Shaughnessy keepscalling him manager of the century. He
has done such a tremendous job Toanswer your question will he be back?
(05:56):
It's going to cost them and Iknow there are a lot of people saying
why haven't there Red Sox stepped upfor him? Now? All Aleis Cora
said, I don't want to talkabout my future until halfter the season.
I am focused only on the teamon the field right now. It doesn't
strike me the way John Henry hasrun the team recently that he would suddenly
come up with this massive payday forAlex Korra. So I think Cora gets
(06:16):
to free agency, and what dowe say about players when they get to
free agency? They're gone. Ithink the same thing's gonna happen here.
I just can't figure Henry out,because John, when he first took over
the team, we all said thefix was in, right. We thought
it wasn't gonna be great. Wethought it they we got small market guys.
We get guys coming in from SanDiego. We get this guy coming
(06:38):
in from the Florida Marlins. Whatthe hell is going on? This is
what the commissioner wanted, this iswhat we got. But they won four
World Series. They won four WorldSeries, They developed minor leaguers, they
did pay some players, and thenall of a sudden they started acting like
the Tampa Bay Rays. Why yeah, it's so hard to wrap your head
(07:00):
around. I mean, they introducedthe ops into the game, one of
like the seminal figures of the lasttwenty years of baseball. They did win,
They won consistently. They built theRed Sox into such a powerhouse brand
that their you know, overarching businessis called Fenway Sports Group. It's called
that for a reason. They couldhave called it something more generic if they
wanted to, knowing that they weregoing to end up investing in soccer and
(07:23):
auto racing and golf and maybe basketball, and obviously they have a hockey team.
They are Fenway Sports Group for areason. And the fact that they
could win it all in twenty eighteenwith one of the great Red Sox teams
in history. Most wins all ofthat stuff and then immediately turn around and
just start disassembling it. I actuallythink part of it traces to John Henry's
(07:46):
history in soccer. He saw wherethat sport was headed, where you had
Sudy money coming in and the GulfStates investing in teams, and suddenly Manchester
City is this powerhouse simply because theyare grossly outspending everybody else. He did
not want the same thing to happenin baseball. He did not want to
enter that arms race. You hadowners like Steve Cohen come in by the
(08:09):
Mets willing to just spend beyond anypreviously established reason. Henry didn't want to
be a part of that. Andhe sees the Marlins, sorry not the
marl even the Marlins last year,but the Rays making the playoffs year after
year without spending a lot of money, and said, why can't we do
that? Why can't we build fromwithin, build a great farm system,
(08:31):
keep our external costs down, stayout of the high end of free agency
and build that way. That's aworthy goal. But in the interim,
you've let five years pass with alargely irrelevant team. You've cost yourself a
lot of goodwill with fans, You'vecost your brand a ton of damage,
and now they're just maybe peeking outof it a little bit now with this
(08:52):
team that you mentioned that is alot of fun to watch and is overachieve
it. But is it too late? We'll discuss that coming up next,
Tomassi, our guests. This isNightside Gary tangwaining for Dan Ray. Back
after this now back to Dan Raylive from the Window World Nightside Studios on
WBZ News Radio. Gary tangwaying forDan to and I talking to my buddy
(09:16):
John Tamasi with us here from NBCSports Boston. We're talking about the Red
Sox and the fact that ownership isnot spending money, but is the interest
there? And here's my theory onthis, John, is I remember covering
it was it was eighteen or thirteen, it might have been eighteen, And
I remember covering the American League ChampionshipSeries in one of the games at home
(09:41):
was not sold out. It wasnot, and I was floored because I
remember in four and seven you couldn'tget near the place. But people were
starting to tire about the speed ofbaseball. Certainly the younger generation wasn't as
interested in it. They were moreinto Instagram and clips in the end and
fantasy football and all that stuff.So do you think John Henry said,
(10:05):
you know what, the market justisn't there. The interest is waning,
So I'm going to put my moneysomewhere else, and I'm not going to
invest the money into the Red Soxbecause I don't think the sport's going in
the right direction. I don't thinkit's that honestly, because he would probably
be more willing to entertain offers forthe team, and there's been no indications
that he plans to sell. Hefamously told Financial Times a couple of weeks
(10:30):
ago that we don't sell assets,which you know that impersonal language went over
really well oho Red Sox fans.Yeah, But the idea that he saw
baseball losing audience, First of all, since the pitch clock was instituted,
Baseball's ratings are up, baseball attendanceis up. Is across the game not
so much in Boston, but certainlyeverywhere else. So the narrative that like
(10:52):
baseball is dying just isn't really true. Is it America's pass time anymore?
Of course not. The NFL tookthat mantle a long time ago, but
baseball is still a thriving sport.There's still more self identified baseball fans than
basketball fans, even though the NBAis certainly the cooler hipper league. So
you know, the idea that baseballthat John Henry saw the writing on the
(11:16):
wall for the sport, I don'tbuy that. Twenty eighteen was an interesting
year. They dominated that whole season, and I have to admit I don't
remember them not selling out that wouldhave been against the Astros and the Alcs.
But what I do remember is theWorld Series, that horrifically long seventeen
in a game whatever it was,that went you know, until like six
(11:37):
in the morning, East Coast time, and it was a nightmare. And
there was nothing fun about that gameat all. It was just a slog.
It kept going and going and going. It should have been the historic
thing that everyone would say, wherewas I when it happened? And it
was awful. This is a littledigression. But baseball figured out that problem.
They introduced the pitchclock, and soI think maybe in that moment he
(12:00):
reset this game needs fixing. ButI don't think it was so much about
his team. So, as ourgood friend would say, baseball is not
boring, Rob Bradford, Yes,of course, I'm going to be a
great salesman in the history of sports. Oh the best, the best.
Baseball is not boring. Oh yeah. Derek White wearing the shirt on the
(12:20):
jumbo tron at Fenway before the RedSox completed their great comeback a couple of
weeks ago so against the Jays.So yeah, Brod Bradford knows what he's
doing. He should be the nextcommissioner of Baseball. That's what I say,
next commissioner of Baseball. So okay. My next question was going to
be about how the new rules andthe time limit. So you answered that.
So you think in Boston if theywin that that will change or do
(12:45):
you still need big names? Both? You definitely need big names. That's
one mistake that I think they've made, and that this ownership in their laser
focus on you know, Sam Kennedysays it all the time. If we
win you know, everything else willtake care of itself, and it's like,
no, it's how you win andwho you win with those two things
matter if you're boring, if you'resort of like the Tim Duncan to use
(13:09):
a basketball analogy of baseball, that'sboring and that matters in Boston. Larry
lukeno may he rest in peace.One of his big sort of like unassailable
truths was you need star power inBoston, you know, and so the
Red Sox they had many Ramirez whenthey bought the team, but then you
(13:30):
know Pedro, David Ortiz, Nomar, all these big stars that keeps the
team relevant. The pursuit of AlexRodriguez. If you didn't live through that
twenty years ago, now, it'seasy to forget how massive a story that
was. It was front page newsevery day over the fall and winter,
and so you need that kind ofthing in Boston. I think Red Sox
(13:50):
ownership and management has whiffed on thatidea, especially under hind Bloom. The
last few years. It was allabout we want hidden gems, we want
guys, we want you know,players who do a lot of different things,
but they're not just flat star players. They really only have one of
those right now, and Raphael Devers, maybe Jaron Duran becomes one. But
(14:13):
I think they need to make acourse correction on that and not assume they're
waiting for their minor league players tomake it up to the big leagues and
become the next generation of stars.I think you need a bridge. I
think you need names before then,and I don't know that they're going to
do that. Well, I'm John. We saw it. We saw it
work successfully here. It's a mixtureof both. From four when you had
(14:35):
Manny and you had Ortiz, thenpapal Bond came in through the system and
Lester came in through the system.There's another guy they let go that they
shouldn't have. But it was amixture of key free agent signings and minor
league development and that that has neverchanged. It doesn't That's why they Oh
God, sometimes it drives me crazy. You know, with the the NFL.
(15:01):
You know, the NBA may bea little different, but with the
NFL. In Major League Baseball,you have to do both. You have
to be you have to draft well, and you have to sign good free
agents and be willing to spend moneyand key players and we saw that.
We saw that they brought in MikeLowell and they spent money on him,
but they also had Papapond, andthey also had Lester, and they also
had Jacobe Elsbury. Right, well, I thought they should have resigned.
(15:26):
And that's how it works. Youcan't go one way or the other.
You have to have the mix ofboth. So where they really have screwed
up is not only with their attitudeor their philosophy. But Bloom was a
complete disaster. Or do you thinkhe was handcuffed by the owner. No.
I think he was a bad fit. He was a bad fit for
the market. I thought that afterabout a year and a half and never
(15:50):
really changed my mind. They justthought too small, didn't think big enough.
And you're right. You go backto seven, you get Josh Beckett,
Beckett, thank you, Yeah,exactly, you get Mike Loll Like
you said, you go ahead tothirteen. You have the homegrown guys.
You know, Pedroia was there,Elsbury, all the people you mentioned.
You go ahead to you know eighteen, you spend big on David Price,
(16:15):
and David Price had a very complicatedtenure here. But you don't win the
World Series without him. He wasawesome in that postseason. That was a
big star player, highest paid pitcherin baseball history. All of that you
had David Ortiz is a through linefor a lot of it. You had
Xander Bogart who you developed, sothey always were sort of one step ahead.
There'd be the little intervening time wherethey went down for a little bit
(16:40):
while waiting for Andrew Benintendee and JackieBradley and the young generation Mookie Betts to
arrive. And once they did andestablish themselves, you were rolling again.
And they went away from that model, like you said, and I think
they're doing it backwards. The ideathat you can have a bunch of young
guys come up and thrive in amarket like bust about anyone to guide them,
(17:00):
I think is a huge mistake.Every generation that came in. When
Pedroia got here, there was Ortiz, there was Pedro, all of that
stuff. When you know, maybenot Pedro, but you know what I
mean, they were better I gotyeah, no, I hear you,
Yeah no, no, it wasstandard Bogarts this here and there are already
(17:21):
guys established, so they they needthey have lost sight of the importance of
that. So is baseball popular again? In your eyes? You're telling me
that it is, that it's makinga comeback with the younger generation. Yeah,
I mean it's the ratings are up. The sports still has problems.
It's on pace for the fewest hitsin a season. I mean, you
(17:44):
think about what's the most sort offundamental action in a baseball game, it's
a hit. And there have beenfewer hits this year than I think we're
going back to nineteen sixty eight,the year when the mound was too high
and you know, uh, pitchersdominated the offense. Is that it's lowest
point in a generation. That isa major problem. Part of it is
(18:07):
there's just so much science in thegame that is frankly demoralizing, and so
teams have figured out that the mostimportant attribute of any pitcher is just how
hard you can throw. And youjust have guys who throw one hundred miles
an hour and blow out their arm, and somebody else who throws one hundred
miles an hour comes in and replacesthem. So I don't want to understate
(18:29):
the fact that the game still hassome problems as an entertainment product, but
the pace is much better. Theviewing experience on TV is much better,
and so in that sense it's madestrides, but it still has a ways
to go. Correct me if I'mwrong here do you are? The Dodgers
are the only team with big names? No, I mean the Braves have
(18:49):
big names, certainly the Phillies.I mean, look at the Phillies with
Bryce Harper and Kyle Skwarber in thegame. Yeah, that's an interesting question.
I guess I should say personalities.Yeah, I mean baseball has been
at a personality deficiency for a while. You think about it. The best
player in baseball is a complete ciphershow. Heotani. He's incredible to watch.
(19:12):
No one knows anything about him.He famously this winter before he signed
with the Dodgers, he won anotherMVP Award with the Angels. They did
a press conference. It was byzoom. There was a dog in his
lap and someone asked what the dog'sname was, and we can't say.
They wouldn't name the dog. Andso it's like you're talking about selling baseball
(19:33):
stars. When you ask what's yourdog's name and the answer is none of
your business. That's not the bestway to sell your game. The baseball
has that issue. I thought theywere going to get something with the scandal.
I mean, wasn't it his trainerwas gambling illegally or his trainer or
Yeah. It's amazing to me thatthat really did not stick to Otani whatsoever.
(19:57):
And you have FEDS involved, andthe FEDS actually come down on the
trainer and say, yeah, thetrainer was stealing money. And it is
plausible in one sense that Otani reliedon this guy for everything. But I
was super skeptical when it happened,like, oh, come on, the
trainer's betting, This is got tobe a tony betting. And I know
(20:18):
people cross baseball thought the same thing. Maybe there was a massive cover up.
But when independent federal officials get involvedand don't point in that direction,
you have to at least open yourselfto the possibility that what you see is
what you actually get. John,I know I had your book to the
bottom of the hour. Can youhang on and talk some Celtics ownership?
(20:40):
Oh sure, Okay, good.I appreciate that we got to get into
that. John Tomaski by Buddy fromNBC Sports Boston is joining us. We
were just talking about baseball in general, the popularity of the sport and how
the Red Sox really are not cashingin on that literally and figuratively. But
coming up next, who will bethe next owner of the Boston Celtics.
Right here on WBC's Night Side,will be Bad. You're on the night
(21:06):
Side with Dan Ray on wz Boston'snews radio. Right Garrety tangling for Dan
tonight, Thomas. One of thethings John Tamashi is with us here NBC
Sports Boston. One of the thingsI have trouble with and trying to follow
current events is when I see breakingnews, you know, I go,
oh, this must be important,and thinking that it just broke right,
(21:29):
and then you go ahead and youtake a look at it and you go,
oh my god, this thing's likea day old. But I did
just see Trump saying he thinks he'llbe facing Kamala Harris instead of by which
I said to my producer Rob,I go, that's new, right,
I think that's new, But younever know, because Rob and I were
just saying, it's like when youwatch the news channels all day long,
(21:51):
everything's breaking news. But this isan example of Trump. He just can't
keep his mouth shut. Like allhe has to do is like shut up,
and he still can't do it.Okay, yeah, but I mean
this, He'll be saying the oppositetomorrow, so it hardly matters. It
doesn't matter, that's right. Andthen he'll be going fishing with Putin.
Okay, no bear hunting, oh, bear hunting. Excuse me, I'm
(22:14):
sorry? Suretless ye. Now,you did cover the Celtics when you were
I believe with the Lull Sun orwas it the Eagle Tribune, Hi,
Eagle Tribune. I did some atthe Herald. I was there at the
OA Finals when they beat the Lakers. W E E I I covered him
and obviously working at NBC now theright Soldier, So plenty of Celtics coverage
(22:34):
in my past. Yes, youwere working for the Green Network. And
let me tell you. I willsay this, and I say this with
all other objectivity. It is greenerthan ever. I'll just leave it at
that, greener than ever, andI guess it should be. That's fine.
It's they won the championship. Youknow, they won the championship,
(22:55):
but greener than ever. Okay,how Florida were you? That Wick said
was selling his portion of the teamor IRV, I should say his dad's
portion of the team because and Isaid this, Shaughnessy wrote it, but
I knew this. I said thison our podcast with Bob Bryan. Irv's
calling the shots with this. Irv'sselling the Grossbeck part bottom line. But
(23:18):
and I just know that that's it. They don't buy it without IRV.
But how surprised were you that they'reselling? Stunned, Absolutely stunned. I
didn't see the news when it broke. I missed the breaking news, you
know, bar across the screen orwhatever. I got a two days later.
Yeah, well, I got atext from a friend of mine who
(23:41):
works in sports saying, geez,the you know, we're stuck with Henry,
but the best owner in Boston isselling. And I was like,
wait what And so you know,that's when I saw it. Absolutely floored.
I had not stopped to think.I know that Wick's lesser stay in
the team was not a secret.It wasn't like something that they hid.
(24:03):
But it just became one of thesethings over the twenty years since the family
bought the team, that he wassuch the face of it, and he
was such the spokesman for everything thatwe all settled into the belief that it
was his team. You know,for all we knew maybe his dad had
handed it to him. We hadno idea. Well, this comes down
and the keyword in the press releasewas estate planning. And it's like,
(24:27):
well, wait, why is Wick'sestate at issue? He's sixty three,
he has what one or two kids? Why is it's an issue? Well,
it's an issue, Thank you twokids. It's an issue if your
ninety year old father estate planning wouldbe a much more pressing concern for him
with his four children. And sonow all the dominoes, it all makes
(24:49):
sense, and I think it hasthe potential to be kind of a sad
day for Boston Sports because Grossbeck andtel Yuka and the guys who have been
running the team have done really atremendous and admirable job. All the complaints
we have about you know, JohnHenry being this technocrat who's no longer interested
in the people who are part ofthe game, just the numbers. You
(25:11):
know, Jeremy Jacobs has been theabsentee owner. Robert Kraft has this just
sort of vaninglorious desire to be loved. None of that stuff we have to
deal with with Wick, he reallyhas been the model owner here, and
so the fact that it is beingsold as part of an estate planning thing
(25:33):
means that local ownership and all thisstuff that we hope for, come on,
It's going to be sold to thehighest bidder and we have no idea
who that's going to be for wherethey're coming from Amazon Arena. Yah,
seriously, Jeff Bezos, I mean, I know there was that story last
week. Oh, he sold fivebillion dollars of or he signaled he's going
(25:56):
to sell five billion of Amazon stock. That's enough to buy this picks out
right now. He gets linked toevery single team that comes on the market.
I believe there is what is itthe Seahawks or one of the Seattle
teams? Let me take if youthink about it though. But first of
all, Wick has done a masterfuljob. He has been pissed at me,
he has been pissed at Felger.It's just whatever. Uh. The
(26:17):
bottom line is that he was anemotional owner who wanted his team to win.
But he was also a very smartbusinessman and he did a great job.
And one of the things that hedeserves a ton of credit for is
managing all the other owners because whenthat purchase went down. I had people
tell me it's not going to workbecause there's too many cooks in the kitchen
(26:37):
that you had Palauka, you hadthe Abbey Group, and uh, you
had all. I mean, there'sgo to a game, there's like twenty
of them there, Jimmy Palata,I mean, people with big money,
right who all and they made itwork. But here's the thing, John,
and you saw it with Mark Cubanwhen he sold his part of the
(26:59):
Mavericks. He's sold them Mavericks becausehe knew the time was right, and
he sold it to a casino conglomeratesports frames I know. And I was
just going to say very quickly,and and a major right wing you know,
supporter of right wing causes, whichwas kind of fascinating. When the
Adelson family, when you consider whatthe NBA is and all the controversy over
(27:21):
shut up and dribble and all thatkind of stuff, well you just sold
to like the trumpiest Sheldon Naedelsen passedaway, but Miriam is obviously still running
things, and they're as trumpy asyou get. The NBA is supposedly the
woke league. The Mavericks were,you know, one of the teams with
the most engaged owner in sports,the last guy you would ever expect to
sell, and the fact that hegot out when he did, somebody who's
(27:45):
had incredible business timing throughout his career. Talking about Mark Cuban, that certainly
does make you wonder why the Sunswere sold the Bucks were sold. Here
we go now with the Celtics alongwith jo Do the Mask and Edilson.
I believe that's a Boston family.I think you know, do the math.
They bought it for three hundred andsixty million, and that was the
(28:07):
entire team, right, so ifyou divide it by four, which is
I'm keeping it simple because there werefour major owners and then other minority owners.
But Wick and his dad, Irv, they had control of it because
they owned fifty percent the Abbey Groupand pelle Juca owned the other twenty five
twenty five. So Wick was themanaging partner because of his dad's money,
which is fine. But you're talkingabout selling this thing for five billion dollars,
(28:33):
so that means the Grospeck family,and again I am simplifying the math.
It's two point five billion dollars,okay, with a bee Who the
hell? I mean, PAGs Ilove him, but is he going to
come and he's probably worth eight hundrednine hundred million dollars? Is he going
to come up with that money?Or all these other guys going to come
(28:53):
up with that money? Do theywant to come up with that money?
It has to be a bezos,It has to be somebody like that.
I mean, there a weird nameat you sure, and you know this.
You know this person a lot betterthan I do. I don't know
him at all, but you dealtwith him a lot over the years.
What about Wick? What about Wickhimself? There seems to be sort of
(29:14):
rumblings I know Michael Hawley said iton the air today that Wick does not
really does not want to sell theteam. Well that, look, I'll
give credit, that's a no brainer. I mean, of course he doesn't.
That's why I said, I'm saying, could good? Why couldn't Wick
turn around? And he don't?Can he buy out his family? Can
(29:36):
he use the pro whatever? Canhe be? Can he turn right around
and truly go out whether it's himand tel Yuka, him, tel Yuka
and whatever other investors, can theyafford to effectively buy out his dad?
No? Well, I don't seeit, but again they would have to
bring other people in. Wick couldn'tbuy this team without her, Okay.
(30:00):
And I was told when this thingfirst went down, when there were meetings,
IRV ran the meetings. Okay.Now, Erv didn't talk to the
media. And again Wick in hiringthe right people and being the face of
the team. The guy deserves allthe credit in the world. Name a
(30:21):
tunnel after him if you want.Okay, But this was irv's team and
irv's money. As Shawness even wroteabout it, right, I mean you
know, I said with a podcastwith Bob Brian when this went down,
you know Wick ran it, IRVowned it. So how do you get
two and a half billion dollars tobuy out your siblings? How do you
(30:41):
do that? I don't know.I think you have to have somebody.
You have to be a billion youhave to be a multi billionaire to buy
it. I just don't see it. I don't see how you do it.
I don't see how anyone does it. And the issue too is if
you're trying to keep the team togetherother as is which they just won an
(31:02):
NBA championship, the franchisees record eighteenth. They have everyone signed to come back.
All their best players are young,you know, Jason Tatum, Jaylen
Brown, the two centerpieces that arein their twenties. This thing could keep
going for a while, except theyare going to have half a billion dollars
in player salaries and luxury tax penaltiesper year staring at them in like two
(31:26):
or three years. Who can affordsix five to six milli billion to buy
the team? And then another halfa billion dollars a year in payroll when
you don't even own the building youplay and you're paying rent okay for the
Bruins. Well, so there's justa lot going on here, there's no
doubt about it. But the fiveis a little high because you're buying half,
(31:48):
so it would be two point fiveplus a half billion, so you
know, you'd be talking about threebillion. Again, it's still billions of
dollars. You know, it wouldhave to be like the Waltons, you
know, the Walmart people, oryou know we're talking about we're talking about
a different level of wealth than whatyou have in the ownership group. Now,
possibly somebody that we've never heard of. The owner of the Rams,
(32:14):
gentlemen, I forgot his name.He owns the Rams and he also owns
the Nuggets. Yeah, the Nuggets. Well, that's right, he already
owns the Nuggets. That type ofmoney, you know where he owns,
he owns the Rams, he ownsthe Nuggets. Yeah, that's the guy.
Billions and billions and billions, youknow, billions of dollars. You
(32:35):
know who could probably he Crafts couldprobably swing it because of the value of
the Patriots. But I don't thinkhe wants anything to do with it.
I mean I've talked to him.Yeah, I mean the Patriots ever shown
any interest in expanding bid I guessthey have the revs. No, they
No, they looked at when theCeltics were when the Celtics were sold originally
to Wick, the Crafts looked atthem, but they did not like the
(32:59):
model. They love the model ofthe salary cap at the time. Yeah,
I mean the NFL salary cap nowis sort of it's ridiculous. But
so want the revenues. But Imean the Crafts have become multi billionaires because
of the NFL. I mean youneed to be a multi billionaire to buy
a Celtics or to buy half thesomething. Yeah, I would be.
I would be hesitant to if you'rea local fan to welcome the craft considering
(33:22):
that, you know, they werethe i think the lowest spending team actual
cash in the NFL the last tenyears. Yeah, they're not gonna and
so they're not going to buy it. Yeah, so you can't Henry John
Henry isn't going to buy it either. But you know that's the thing with
Wick is you know Wick had topicture I think it was in the Globe
or Boston magazine, you know,and hey, we're going to spend money.
We're not cheap like the Red Sox. Well, they spend money and
(33:45):
they increase the expenditures as you justmentioned, to hand off to somebody else.
You know, it's a brilliant businessplan. I mean, you talk
about timing, buy it for threehundred, sell it for fifteen times that
much, win a championship, bebeloved, and then make somebody else pay
for it. It's brilliant. Oh, it's very smart. It's very smart,
(34:06):
and it was a great move bythem. So it's gonna be interesting
to see what happens. I don'tbuy the Wick. I don't think that.
I don't. It's kind of funnythough, I mean, does Wick
if he loves it that much?Can he can he former group? I
don't see it, but then it'syeah, I mean does Wick? Does
Wick? Say? Does Wick goto his three siblings and his dad and
(34:29):
make a bid? How can hedo that? You can't. He'd have
to sell it first. He'd haveto buy out his father and his siblings.
See, I'm not smart enough tofigure out he'd have to buy He'd
have to buy out his his siblingsand his father, which would be over
two billion dollars and he's got toget there. Yeah. No, it's
a snake eating its tail kind ofscenario, and you try to figure out
(34:50):
exactly how it would worked. Yeah, But anyways, Well, John Tamasi,
it's been a pleasure having you on. It's great to catch up,
my friend. Keep up the goodwork. Baseball is not boring, remember
that, John, Baseball is notRob Bradford is right. Nice to be
reunited, Gary. Oh and anytime, all right, John, take care
buddy. All right. It's greatto have John Tomask on with us from
(35:12):
NBC Sports Boston Celtics thing is fascinating, fascinating on who will be coming in
to buy it? And that's theprice of professional sports. Teams. Now,
it's very hard for one person tocome in and say I'm going to
be the owner. You know,I'm going to come in and I'm going
to be the local guy, andI'm going to buy the team, and
I'm gonna sit in the front rowand I'm going to pour my heart and
(35:32):
soul into the team. Billions andbillions of dollars. It's not a lot
of millionaires, but there's not asmany billionaires, so it's going to be
interesting. Coming up at eleven o'clock. Alec Baldwin, the trail, the
trial of Alec Balden got under waytoday and we are going to talk to
(35:52):
him coming up at eleven o'clock.Not Alec Baldwin, I'm sorry. We
are going to talk to Joshua Katzenberg, the Associate Professor of law at the
University of New Mexico School of Law, and it would be great to talk
to Alec Balden. That would bea hell of a get with it.
That's all coming up at eleven o'clockright here on wbz's Nightside. Now back
(36:15):
to Dan Ray live from the WindowWorld Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio Special
thanks to John Tomoshi for joining ushere on WBC's Nightside coming up at eleven
o'clock. As I mentioned, wewill cover the Alec Baldwin involuntary manslaugh of
charge. I guess it begins tomorrow. They did some official things in court
(36:37):
today as he is being charged forthe death of forty two year old cinematographer
Helena Hutchins, which was just sotragic, my god, and the chargers
were dropped once already, but theydecided to go at him again. And
if you need to be reinformed aboutthis, Hutchins was shot and killed when
(37:01):
a bullet was fired from a propgun on the set of Rust, in
which Baldwin was holding the gun,which but he was definitely careless, because
I know this. On a movieset, if you have a firearm,
you do not point it at anybody. You don't point that firearm at anybody.
(37:24):
You can be sure you have blanks, you can be sure it's empty.
You do not point the firearm atanybody on the set. There are
different ways they're doing it now infilm where you will they do a lot
of CGI stuff. You know,you have a gun that's basically a prop,
(37:45):
it's not a real firearm. Itlooks like a gun, but the
muzzle is covered, there's no barrel, if you will, and they'll point
the gun and in post production they'llput in the fire or the gun shot
of the bullet, of the smokeand all that stuff coming out of the
gun. So there's no danger inthat. But this was a low budget
(38:07):
movie. I mean, you couldtell this was not you know, the
Avengers here the movie Russ didn't appearto me to have a lot of money
going on with this production had alimited time, shortshooting period, and obviously
there were cutbacks here and they didn'tget the best of the best when it
(38:29):
came to the armorer and when itcame to gun safety, I mean,
that just seems to be obvious rightthere. With Baldwin. The thing that's
crazy about Baldwin didn't seem to havea He definitely had remorse. Obviously,
we saw the pictures of him whenhe after the fatality happened. He was
in tears, obviously, was veryupset, but then he was quick.
(38:52):
He went I believe he went onABC twenty twenty and he said that the
gun, he didn't pull the trigger, the hammer was pulled back, but
he never pulled the trigger. Andhe's been very active since then on social
media, and he has a realityshow coming out with his family. He
(39:13):
has a second wife where they havea number of young children. Man,
a woman died here and you're goingon having a reality show. I'd still
say it's just out of respect,you want to just stay low. But
sometimes celebrities at that level, withthat type of personality, just cannot stay
out of the limelight. I don'tknow if this guy's going to go to
(39:37):
jail. I don't know if heshould go to jail, but there's something
that the DA in New Mexico sees. Because the armor already has gone to
jail. We know that. Andit didn't seem like an awful lot.
I mean, she was pretty careless. Me posted pictures of herself with you
(39:58):
know, various types of weapons andstraps with bullets in him over her shoulder,
and I mean just a little littlenuts here my opinion. So Alec
Baldwin, will he be going tojail? That'll be something else, huh.
Star of thirty Rock, of course, I remember him from all the
(40:20):
movies. Earlier on the conference RedOctober that's coming up next, you'll discuss
that with Josh Katzenberg. You're associateprofessor at the University of Mexico. Baldwin,
will he be going to jail?Let's coming up on WBC's Nights
It's Nightside with Dan Ray. I'mWBZY Boston's Me Radio. All right,
Dan Watkins, thanks buddy, Garytangling in for Dan Ray tonight. As
he just said, great show sofar this season. Talked to Boston Globe
Political Enterprise reporter and plot off greatstuff on New Hampshire, how New Hampshire
(00:22):
could be key to the Trump presidentialrace and now Trump was sending money up
to the Granite State because of what'sgoing on with the circus in Washington.
Good stuff there also, But Ihad a little fun at the opening of
the show. Looking back at Friday, I didn't have a chance to comment
on some some of President Biden's comments, whether It's twenty two infommercial with George
(00:45):
Stepanopolis. I mean George did hisbest, but I mean, come on,
hey, listen. If I'm Biden'speople, he does not debate.
He does not debate again, justdoesn't happen, and maybe people will forget
about it. Generation Zay or Smartmy nephew Noah tech m Collins, who's
actually a millennial Yet to remind metalking about young people in their work ethic
(01:07):
today and know so Darryl Wright fromERTZ and Young talking about that. So
if you miss that and you're justjoining us, you can check it out
on the podcast. Well, you'llbe up on WBZ dot com. Joining
us right now is my old teammateif you will. That's a sports thing.
John Tomassi joins us FROMBC Sports Boston. Want to talk about these Red
Sox want to talk about the potentialCeltic's ownership. But first up, I'm
(01:30):
going to give John Tomassey a chanceto make any political statements. John,
do you have anything to say aboutthe world of politics. Oh, this
is bringing me back to my daysof the Morning show, our old shared
days on the morning show. Listen. I am a lefty, I'm as
left as you're gonna get, andI would love for Biden to step aside
(01:53):
and for maybe one of those Midwestgovernors to take his place. But I'm
not sure anyone wants to look tothe sports writer talk politics, although I
probably won't be able to help myself. Okay, what about Karen Reid?
Any thoughts on that trial which willdefinitely be a Karen Reid. Yeah.
I will say this as a Mansfieldnative, I would like Mancefield to be
(02:15):
in the news for something other thanKaren Reid. I believe in my heart
that she probably hit him. Ialso believe she probably didn't mean to.
And I have a hard time believingthat the cops master plan was to drag
the guy in, beat him todeath or nearly to death, feed him
(02:35):
to their dog, then put himon their own front lawn, and google
how long it would take him todie. Like I just that none of
that adds up to me. SoI wouldn't have convicted her based on all
the awful stuff that the cops did, and certainly Michael Proctor seems like a
star witness for the defense. ButI desperately hope that this thing doesn't get
(02:58):
tried again. I know the lateststuff day was set the jurors or trying
to say, you know that twoof the charges they thought you should be
acquitted on. Maybe this thing canjust go away. Well I think it
probably should, but I don't knowif the DA will let that happen because
of political pressure. And it wasjust in the spotlight so much, you
know, if this wasn't really atelevision show, which is what it was,
(03:22):
unfortunately, and people forgot that agood man died. If it wasn't
a television show. It might goaway, but I don't know if it
because of that purpose. I don'tknow if the DA will let that happen
anyways, Tomas Man, I'm justI'll just say, very quickly, if
you're the DA, you really wantto do this all again and be embarrassed
again? And if you're the cops, do you want to do this again
(03:44):
and probably have more of your dirtylaundry out there. I don't know.
It seems like everyone has already takensuch a hit on this. I kind
of have a hard time seeing thepoint of continuing. Well, I would
let it go away too, butI think the DA may be thinking,
listen, this was a victory forus because quite frankly, when you look
at the evidence, I mean,look, it was an accident. I
agree, however it happened. Idon't think anybody meant to murder the man.
(04:08):
Unfortunately. I just think it wasan accident. So I thought it
was going to be not guilty becausethey didn't have enough evidence. I thought
the DA would be psyched that theygot this. So I don't know,
John, who knows what's going tohappen. But again, we all know
that attorneys and politicians love the spotlight, and believe me, the spotlight was
(04:30):
on them. So anyways, TOMASI, let's get to the fun and games
the Red Sox right now, andwe don't have to get into the on
field strategy. But I could notbe more happier. I love Alex Korra.
I love the fact that these guysare playing for him. Do you
think he'll resign or is he goingto tell John Henry and company to take
a hike and go to work forsomebody else. Yeah? I mean if
(04:51):
you followed baseball, then you knowlast winter, Craig Capsel, who's the
manager of the Brewers, got amassive forty million dollar contract to jump to
the Cubs. It was the biggestcontract ever given a manager in baseball.
Craig Counsel has never won a WorldSeries. Alex Cora has. Alex Cora
is going to be a free agentwhen the season is over. And we
(05:12):
very rarely talk about managers as freeagents. We talk about them as lame
ducks. No one is really callingAlex Cora lame duck, even though that's
what he is, because they knowthat free agency is out there, and
if you've watched the job that hehas done with this team, a very
young Red Sox team. There wereno expectations. The one pitcher they signed
in the offseason blow at his armbefore the season even started. They were
(05:33):
supposed to be bad. They finishedlast a couple of years in a row.
This year was supposed to be nodifferent. Yet here we are.
They have three young All Stars.They're in playoff position. If the season
ended today, they'd be in theplayoffs. It is largely due to Alex
Cora. Our friend Dan Shaughnessy keepscalling him manager of the century. He
has done such a tremendous job Toanswer your question will he be back?
(05:56):
It's going to cost them and Iknow there are a lot of people saying
why haven't there Red Sox stepped upfor him? Now? All Aleis Cora
said, I don't want to talkabout my future until halfter the season.
I am focused only on the teamon the field right now. It doesn't
strike me the way John Henry hasrun the team recently that he would suddenly
come up with this massive payday forAlex Korra. So I think Cora gets
(06:16):
to free agency, and what dowe say about players when they get to
free agency? They're gone. Ithink the same thing's gonna happen here.
I just can't figure Henry out,because John, when he first took over
the team, we all said thefix was in, right. We thought
it wasn't gonna be great. Wethought it they we got small market guys.
We get guys coming in from SanDiego. We get this guy coming
(06:38):
in from the Florida Marlins. Whatthe hell is going on? This is
what the commissioner wanted, this iswhat we got. But they won four
World Series. They won four WorldSeries, They developed minor leaguers, they
did pay some players, and thenall of a sudden they started acting like
the Tampa Bay Rays. Why yeah, it's so hard to wrap your head
(07:00):
around. I mean, they introducedthe ops into the game, one of
like the seminal figures of the lasttwenty years of baseball. They did win,
They won consistently. They built theRed Sox into such a powerhouse brand
that their you know, overarching businessis called Fenway Sports Group. It's called
that for a reason. They couldhave called it something more generic if they
wanted to, knowing that they weregoing to end up investing in soccer and
(07:23):
auto racing and golf and maybe basketball, and obviously they have a hockey team.
They are Fenway Sports Group for areason. And the fact that they
could win it all in twenty eighteenwith one of the great Red Sox teams
in history. Most wins all ofthat stuff and then immediately turn around and
just start disassembling it. I actuallythink part of it traces to John Henry's
(07:46):
history in soccer. He saw wherethat sport was headed, where you had
Sudy money coming in and the GulfStates investing in teams, and suddenly Manchester
City is this powerhouse simply because theyare grossly outspending everybody else. He did
not want the same thing to happenin baseball. He did not want to
enter that arms race. You hadowners like Steve Cohen come in by the
(08:09):
Mets willing to just spend beyond anypreviously established reason. Henry didn't want to
be a part of that. Andhe sees the Marlins, sorry not the
marl even the Marlins last year,but the Rays making the playoffs year after
year without spending a lot of money, and said, why can't we do
that? Why can't we build fromwithin, build a great farm system,
(08:31):
keep our external costs down, stayout of the high end of free agency
and build that way. That's aworthy goal. But in the interim,
you've let five years pass with alargely irrelevant team. You've cost yourself a
lot of goodwill with fans, You'vecost your brand a ton of damage,
and now they're just maybe peeking outof it a little bit now with this
(08:52):
team that you mentioned that is alot of fun to watch and is overachieve
it. But is it too late? We'll discuss that coming up next,
Tomassi, our guests. This isNightside Gary tangwaining for Dan Ray. Back
after this now back to Dan Raylive from the Window World Nightside Studios on
WBZ News Radio. Gary tangwaying forDan to and I talking to my buddy
(09:16):
John Tamasi with us here from NBCSports Boston. We're talking about the Red
Sox and the fact that ownership isnot spending money, but is the interest
there? And here's my theory onthis, John, is I remember covering
it was it was eighteen or thirteen, it might have been eighteen, And
I remember covering the American League ChampionshipSeries in one of the games at home
(09:41):
was not sold out. It wasnot, and I was floored because I
remember in four and seven you couldn'tget near the place. But people were
starting to tire about the speed ofbaseball. Certainly the younger generation wasn't as
interested in it. They were moreinto Instagram and clips in the end and
fantasy football and all that stuff.So do you think John Henry said,
(10:05):
you know what, the market justisn't there. The interest is waning,
So I'm going to put my moneysomewhere else, and I'm not going to
invest the money into the Red Soxbecause I don't think the sport's going in
the right direction. I don't thinkit's that honestly, because he would probably
be more willing to entertain offers forthe team, and there's been no indications
that he plans to sell. Hefamously told Financial Times a couple of weeks
(10:30):
ago that we don't sell assets,which you know that impersonal language went over
really well oho Red Sox fans.Yeah, But the idea that he saw
baseball losing audience, First of all, since the pitch clock was instituted,
Baseball's ratings are up, baseball attendanceis up. Is across the game not
so much in Boston, but certainlyeverywhere else. So the narrative that like
(10:52):
baseball is dying just isn't really true. Is it America's pass time anymore?
Of course not. The NFL tookthat mantle a long time ago, but
baseball is still a thriving sport.There's still more self identified baseball fans than
basketball fans, even though the NBAis certainly the cooler hipper league. So
you know, the idea that baseballthat John Henry saw the writing on the
(11:16):
wall for the sport, I don'tbuy that. Twenty eighteen was an interesting
year. They dominated that whole season, and I have to admit I don't
remember them not selling out that wouldhave been against the Astros and the Alcs.
But what I do remember is theWorld Series, that horrifically long seventeen
in a game whatever it was,that went you know, until like six
(11:37):
in the morning, East Coast time, and it was a nightmare. And
there was nothing fun about that gameat all. It was just a slog.
It kept going and going and going. It should have been the historic
thing that everyone would say, wherewas I when it happened? And it
was awful. This is a littledigression. But baseball figured out that problem.
They introduced the pitchclock, and soI think maybe in that moment he
(12:00):
reset this game needs fixing. ButI don't think it was so much about
his team. So, as ourgood friend would say, baseball is not
boring, Rob Bradford, Yes,of course, I'm going to be a
great salesman in the history of sports. Oh the best, the best.
Baseball is not boring. Oh yeah. Derek White wearing the shirt on the
(12:20):
jumbo tron at Fenway before the RedSox completed their great comeback a couple of
weeks ago so against the Jays.So yeah, Brod Bradford knows what he's
doing. He should be the nextcommissioner of Baseball. That's what I say,
next commissioner of Baseball. So okay. My next question was going to
be about how the new rules andthe time limit. So you answered that.
So you think in Boston if theywin that that will change or do
(12:45):
you still need big names? Both? You definitely need big names. That's
one mistake that I think they've made, and that this ownership in their laser
focus on you know, Sam Kennedysays it all the time. If we
win you know, everything else willtake care of itself, and it's like,
no, it's how you win andwho you win with those two things
matter if you're boring, if you'resort of like the Tim Duncan to use
(13:09):
a basketball analogy of baseball, that'sboring and that matters in Boston. Larry
lukeno may he rest in peace.One of his big sort of like unassailable
truths was you need star power inBoston, you know, and so the
Red Sox they had many Ramirez whenthey bought the team, but then you
(13:30):
know Pedro, David Ortiz, Nomar, all these big stars that keeps the
team relevant. The pursuit of AlexRodriguez. If you didn't live through that
twenty years ago, now, it'seasy to forget how massive a story that
was. It was front page newsevery day over the fall and winter,
and so you need that kind ofthing in Boston. I think Red Sox
(13:50):
ownership and management has whiffed on thatidea, especially under hind Bloom. The
last few years. It was allabout we want hidden gems, we want
guys, we want you know,players who do a lot of different things,
but they're not just flat star players. They really only have one of
those right now, and Raphael Devers, maybe Jaron Duran becomes one. But
(14:13):
I think they need to make acourse correction on that and not assume they're
waiting for their minor league players tomake it up to the big leagues and
become the next generation of stars.I think you need a bridge. I
think you need names before then,and I don't know that they're going to
do that. Well, I'm John. We saw it. We saw it
work successfully here. It's a mixtureof both. From four when you had
(14:35):
Manny and you had Ortiz, thenpapal Bond came in through the system and
Lester came in through the system.There's another guy they let go that they
shouldn't have. But it was amixture of key free agent signings and minor
league development and that that has neverchanged. It doesn't That's why they Oh
God, sometimes it drives me crazy. You know, with the the NFL.
(15:01):
You know, the NBA may bea little different, but with the
NFL. In Major League Baseball,you have to do both. You have
to be you have to draft well, and you have to sign good free
agents and be willing to spend moneyand key players and we saw that.
We saw that they brought in MikeLowell and they spent money on him,
but they also had Papapond, andthey also had Lester, and they also
had Jacobe Elsbury. Right, well, I thought they should have resigned.
(15:26):
And that's how it works. Youcan't go one way or the other.
You have to have the mix ofboth. So where they really have screwed
up is not only with their attitudeor their philosophy. But Bloom was a
complete disaster. Or do you thinkhe was handcuffed by the owner. No.
I think he was a bad fit. He was a bad fit for
the market. I thought that afterabout a year and a half and never
(15:50):
really changed my mind. They justthought too small, didn't think big enough.
And you're right. You go backto seven, you get Josh Beckett,
Beckett, thank you, Yeah,exactly, you get Mike Loll Like
you said, you go ahead tothirteen. You have the homegrown guys.
You know, Pedroia was there,Elsbury, all the people you mentioned.
You go ahead to you know eighteen, you spend big on David Price,
(16:15):
and David Price had a very complicatedtenure here. But you don't win the
World Series without him. He wasawesome in that postseason. That was a
big star player, highest paid pitcherin baseball history. All of that you
had David Ortiz is a through linefor a lot of it. You had
Xander Bogart who you developed, sothey always were sort of one step ahead.
There'd be the little intervening time wherethey went down for a little bit
(16:40):
while waiting for Andrew Benintendee and JackieBradley and the young generation Mookie Betts to
arrive. And once they did andestablish themselves, you were rolling again.
And they went away from that model, like you said, and I think
they're doing it backwards. The ideathat you can have a bunch of young
guys come up and thrive in amarket like bust about anyone to guide them,
(17:00):
I think is a huge mistake.Every generation that came in. When
Pedroia got here, there was Ortiz, there was Pedro, all of that
stuff. When you know, maybenot Pedro, but you know what I
mean, they were better I gotyeah, no, I hear you,
Yeah no, no, it wasstandard Bogarts this here and there are already
(17:21):
guys established, so they they needthey have lost sight of the importance of
that. So is baseball popular again? In your eyes? You're telling me
that it is, that it's makinga comeback with the younger generation. Yeah,
I mean it's the ratings are up. The sports still has problems.
It's on pace for the fewest hitsin a season. I mean, you
(17:44):
think about what's the most sort offundamental action in a baseball game, it's
a hit. And there have beenfewer hits this year than I think we're
going back to nineteen sixty eight,the year when the mound was too high
and you know, uh, pitchersdominated the offense. Is that it's lowest
point in a generation. That isa major problem. Part of it is
(18:07):
there's just so much science in thegame that is frankly demoralizing, and so
teams have figured out that the mostimportant attribute of any pitcher is just how
hard you can throw. And youjust have guys who throw one hundred miles
an hour and blow out their arm, and somebody else who throws one hundred
miles an hour comes in and replacesthem. So I don't want to understate
(18:29):
the fact that the game still hassome problems as an entertainment product, but
the pace is much better. Theviewing experience on TV is much better,
and so in that sense it's madestrides, but it still has a ways
to go. Correct me if I'mwrong here do you are? The Dodgers
are the only team with big names? No, I mean the Braves have
(18:49):
big names, certainly the Phillies.I mean, look at the Phillies with
Bryce Harper and Kyle Skwarber in thegame. Yeah, that's an interesting question.
I guess I should say personalities.Yeah, I mean baseball has been
at a personality deficiency for a while. You think about it. The best
player in baseball is a complete ciphershow. Heotani. He's incredible to watch.
(19:12):
No one knows anything about him.He famously this winter before he signed
with the Dodgers, he won anotherMVP Award with the Angels. They did
a press conference. It was byzoom. There was a dog in his
lap and someone asked what the dog'sname was, and we can't say.
They wouldn't name the dog. Andso it's like you're talking about selling baseball
(19:33):
stars. When you ask what's yourdog's name and the answer is none of
your business. That's not the bestway to sell your game. The baseball
has that issue. I thought theywere going to get something with the scandal.
I mean, wasn't it his trainerwas gambling illegally or his trainer or
Yeah. It's amazing to me thatthat really did not stick to Otani whatsoever.
(19:57):
And you have FEDS involved, andthe FEDS actually come down on the
trainer and say, yeah, thetrainer was stealing money. And it is
plausible in one sense that Otani reliedon this guy for everything. But I
was super skeptical when it happened,like, oh, come on, the
trainer's betting, This is got tobe a tony betting. And I know
(20:18):
people cross baseball thought the same thing. Maybe there was a massive cover up.
But when independent federal officials get involvedand don't point in that direction,
you have to at least open yourselfto the possibility that what you see is
what you actually get. John,I know I had your book to the
bottom of the hour. Can youhang on and talk some Celtics ownership?
(20:40):
Oh sure, Okay, good.I appreciate that we got to get into
that. John Tomaski by Buddy fromNBC Sports Boston is joining us. We
were just talking about baseball in general, the popularity of the sport and how
the Red Sox really are not cashingin on that literally and figuratively. But
coming up next, who will bethe next owner of the Boston Celtics.
Right here on WBC's Night Side,will be Bad. You're on the night
(21:06):
Side with Dan Ray on wz Boston'snews radio. Right Garrety tangling for Dan
tonight, Thomas. One of thethings John Tamashi is with us here NBC
Sports Boston. One of the thingsI have trouble with and trying to follow
current events is when I see breakingnews, you know, I go,
oh, this must be important,and thinking that it just broke right,
(21:29):
and then you go ahead and youtake a look at it and you go,
oh my god, this thing's likea day old. But I did
just see Trump saying he thinks he'llbe facing Kamala Harris instead of by which
I said to my producer Rob,I go, that's new, right,
I think that's new, But younever know, because Rob and I were
just saying, it's like when youwatch the news channels all day long,
(21:51):
everything's breaking news. But this isan example of Trump. He just can't
keep his mouth shut. Like allhe has to do is like shut up,
and he still can't do it.Okay, yeah, but I mean
this, He'll be saying the oppositetomorrow, so it hardly matters. It
doesn't matter, that's right. Andthen he'll be going fishing with Putin.
Okay, no bear hunting, oh, bear hunting. Excuse me, I'm
(22:14):
sorry? Suretless ye. Now,you did cover the Celtics when you were
I believe with the Lull Sun orwas it the Eagle Tribune, Hi,
Eagle Tribune. I did some atthe Herald. I was there at the
OA Finals when they beat the Lakers. W E E I I covered him
and obviously working at NBC now theright Soldier, So plenty of Celtics coverage
(22:34):
in my past. Yes, youwere working for the Green Network. And
let me tell you. I willsay this, and I say this with
all other objectivity. It is greenerthan ever. I'll just leave it at
that, greener than ever, andI guess it should be. That's fine.
It's they won the championship. Youknow, they won the championship,
(22:55):
but greener than ever. Okay,how Florida were you? That Wick said
was selling his portion of the teamor IRV, I should say his dad's
portion of the team because and Isaid this, Shaughnessy wrote it, but
I knew this. I said thison our podcast with Bob Bryan. Irv's
calling the shots with this. Irv'sselling the Grossbeck part bottom line. But
(23:18):
and I just know that that's it. They don't buy it without IRV.
But how surprised were you that they'reselling? Stunned, Absolutely stunned. I
didn't see the news when it broke. I missed the breaking news, you
know, bar across the screen orwhatever. I got a two days later.
Yeah, well, I got atext from a friend of mine who
(23:41):
works in sports saying, geez,the you know, we're stuck with Henry,
but the best owner in Boston isselling. And I was like,
wait what And so you know,that's when I saw it. Absolutely floored.
I had not stopped to think.I know that Wick's lesser stay in
the team was not a secret.It wasn't like something that they hid.
(24:03):
But it just became one of thesethings over the twenty years since the family
bought the team, that he wassuch the face of it, and he
was such the spokesman for everything thatwe all settled into the belief that it
was his team. You know,for all we knew maybe his dad had
handed it to him. We hadno idea. Well, this comes down
and the keyword in the press releasewas estate planning. And it's like,
(24:27):
well, wait, why is Wick'sestate at issue? He's sixty three,
he has what one or two kids? Why is it's an issue? Well,
it's an issue, Thank you twokids. It's an issue if your
ninety year old father estate planning wouldbe a much more pressing concern for him
with his four children. And sonow all the dominoes, it all makes
(24:49):
sense, and I think it hasthe potential to be kind of a sad
day for Boston Sports because Grossbeck andtel Yuka and the guys who have been
running the team have done really atremendous and admirable job. All the complaints
we have about you know, JohnHenry being this technocrat who's no longer interested
in the people who are part ofthe game, just the numbers. You
(25:11):
know, Jeremy Jacobs has been theabsentee owner. Robert Kraft has this just
sort of vaninglorious desire to be loved. None of that stuff we have to
deal with with Wick, he reallyhas been the model owner here, and
so the fact that it is beingsold as part of an estate planning thing
(25:33):
means that local ownership and all thisstuff that we hope for, come on,
It's going to be sold to thehighest bidder and we have no idea
who that's going to be for wherethey're coming from Amazon Arena. Yah,
seriously, Jeff Bezos, I mean, I know there was that story last
week. Oh, he sold fivebillion dollars of or he signaled he's going
(25:56):
to sell five billion of Amazon stock. That's enough to buy this picks out
right now. He gets linked toevery single team that comes on the market.
I believe there is what is itthe Seahawks or one of the Seattle
teams? Let me take if youthink about it though. But first of
all, Wick has done a masterfuljob. He has been pissed at me,
he has been pissed at Felger.It's just whatever. Uh. The
(26:17):
bottom line is that he was anemotional owner who wanted his team to win.
But he was also a very smartbusinessman and he did a great job.
And one of the things that hedeserves a ton of credit for is
managing all the other owners because whenthat purchase went down. I had people
tell me it's not going to workbecause there's too many cooks in the kitchen
(26:37):
that you had Palauka, you hadthe Abbey Group, and uh, you
had all. I mean, there'sgo to a game, there's like twenty
of them there, Jimmy Palata,I mean, people with big money,
right who all and they made itwork. But here's the thing, John,
and you saw it with Mark Cubanwhen he sold his part of the
(26:59):
Mavericks. He's sold them Mavericks becausehe knew the time was right, and
he sold it to a casino conglomeratesports frames I know. And I was
just going to say very quickly,and and a major right wing you know,
supporter of right wing causes, whichwas kind of fascinating. When the
Adelson family, when you consider whatthe NBA is and all the controversy over
(27:21):
shut up and dribble and all thatkind of stuff, well you just sold
to like the trumpiest Sheldon Naedelsen passedaway, but Miriam is obviously still running
things, and they're as trumpy asyou get. The NBA is supposedly the
woke league. The Mavericks were,you know, one of the teams with
the most engaged owner in sports,the last guy you would ever expect to
sell, and the fact that hegot out when he did, somebody who's
(27:45):
had incredible business timing throughout his career. Talking about Mark Cuban, that certainly
does make you wonder why the Sunswere sold the Bucks were sold. Here
we go now with the Celtics alongwith jo Do the Mask and Edilson.
I believe that's a Boston family.I think you know, do the math.
They bought it for three hundred andsixty million, and that was the
(28:07):
entire team, right, so ifyou divide it by four, which is
I'm keeping it simple because there werefour major owners and then other minority owners.
But Wick and his dad, Irv, they had control of it because
they owned fifty percent the Abbey Groupand pelle Juca owned the other twenty five
twenty five. So Wick was themanaging partner because of his dad's money,
which is fine. But you're talkingabout selling this thing for five billion dollars,
(28:33):
so that means the Grospeck family,and again I am simplifying the math.
It's two point five billion dollars,okay, with a bee Who the
hell? I mean, PAGs Ilove him, but is he going to
come and he's probably worth eight hundrednine hundred million dollars? Is he going
to come up with that money?Or all these other guys going to come
(28:53):
up with that money? Do theywant to come up with that money?
It has to be a bezos,It has to be somebody like that.
I mean, there a weird nameat you sure, and you know this.
You know this person a lot betterthan I do. I don't know
him at all, but you dealtwith him a lot over the years.
What about Wick? What about Wickhimself? There seems to be sort of
(29:14):
rumblings I know Michael Hawley said iton the air today that Wick does not
really does not want to sell theteam. Well that, look, I'll
give credit, that's a no brainer. I mean, of course he doesn't.
That's why I said, I'm saying, could good? Why couldn't Wick
turn around? And he don't?Can he buy out his family? Can
(29:36):
he use the pro whatever? Canhe be? Can he turn right around
and truly go out whether it's himand tel Yuka, him, tel Yuka
and whatever other investors, can theyafford to effectively buy out his dad?
No? Well, I don't seeit, but again they would have to
bring other people in. Wick couldn'tbuy this team without her, Okay.
(30:00):
And I was told when this thingfirst went down, when there were meetings,
IRV ran the meetings. Okay.Now, Erv didn't talk to the
media. And again Wick in hiringthe right people and being the face of
the team. The guy deserves allthe credit in the world. Name a
(30:21):
tunnel after him if you want.Okay, But this was irv's team and
irv's money. As Shawness even wroteabout it, right, I mean you
know, I said with a podcastwith Bob Brian when this went down,
you know Wick ran it, IRVowned it. So how do you get
two and a half billion dollars tobuy out your siblings? How do you
(30:41):
do that? I don't know.I think you have to have somebody.
You have to be a billion youhave to be a multi billionaire to buy
it. I just don't see it. I don't see how you do it.
I don't see how anyone does it. And the issue too is if
you're trying to keep the team togetherother as is which they just won an
(31:02):
NBA championship, the franchisees record eighteenth. They have everyone signed to come back.
All their best players are young,you know, Jason Tatum, Jaylen
Brown, the two centerpieces that arein their twenties. This thing could keep
going for a while, except theyare going to have half a billion dollars
in player salaries and luxury tax penaltiesper year staring at them in like two
(31:26):
or three years. Who can affordsix five to six milli billion to buy
the team? And then another halfa billion dollars a year in payroll when
you don't even own the building youplay and you're paying rent okay for the
Bruins. Well, so there's justa lot going on here, there's no
doubt about it. But the fiveis a little high because you're buying half,
(31:48):
so it would be two point fiveplus a half billion, so you
know, you'd be talking about threebillion. Again, it's still billions of
dollars. You know, it wouldhave to be like the Waltons, you
know, the Walmart people, oryou know we're talking about we're talking about
a different level of wealth than whatyou have in the ownership group. Now,
possibly somebody that we've never heard of. The owner of the Rams,
(32:14):
gentlemen, I forgot his name.He owns the Rams and he also owns
the Nuggets. Yeah, the Nuggets. Well, that's right, he already
owns the Nuggets. That type ofmoney, you know where he owns,
he owns the Rams, he ownsthe Nuggets. Yeah, that's the guy.
Billions and billions and billions, youknow, billions of dollars. You
(32:35):
know who could probably he Crafts couldprobably swing it because of the value of
the Patriots. But I don't thinkhe wants anything to do with it.
I mean I've talked to him.Yeah, I mean the Patriots ever shown
any interest in expanding bid I guessthey have the revs. No, they
No, they looked at when theCeltics were when the Celtics were sold originally
to Wick, the Crafts looked atthem, but they did not like the
(32:59):
model. They love the model ofthe salary cap at the time. Yeah,
I mean the NFL salary cap nowis sort of it's ridiculous. But
so want the revenues. But Imean the Crafts have become multi billionaires because
of the NFL. I mean youneed to be a multi billionaire to buy
a Celtics or to buy half thesomething. Yeah, I would be.
I would be hesitant to if you'rea local fan to welcome the craft considering
(33:22):
that, you know, they werethe i think the lowest spending team actual
cash in the NFL the last tenyears. Yeah, they're not gonna and
so they're not going to buy it. Yeah, so you can't Henry John
Henry isn't going to buy it either. But you know that's the thing with
Wick is you know Wick had topicture I think it was in the Globe
or Boston magazine, you know,and hey, we're going to spend money.
We're not cheap like the Red Sox. Well, they spend money and
(33:45):
they increase the expenditures as you justmentioned, to hand off to somebody else.
You know, it's a brilliant businessplan. I mean, you talk
about timing, buy it for threehundred, sell it for fifteen times that
much, win a championship, bebeloved, and then make somebody else pay
for it. It's brilliant. Oh, it's very smart. It's very smart,
(34:06):
and it was a great move bythem. So it's gonna be interesting
to see what happens. I don'tbuy the Wick. I don't think that.
I don't. It's kind of funnythough, I mean, does Wick
if he loves it that much?Can he can he former group? I
don't see it, but then it'syeah, I mean does Wick? Does
Wick? Say? Does Wick goto his three siblings and his dad and
(34:29):
make a bid? How can hedo that? You can't. He'd have
to sell it first. He'd haveto buy out his father and his siblings.
See, I'm not smart enough tofigure out he'd have to buy He'd
have to buy out his his siblingsand his father, which would be over
two billion dollars and he's got toget there. Yeah. No, it's
a snake eating its tail kind ofscenario, and you try to figure out
(34:50):
exactly how it would worked. Yeah, But anyways, Well, John Tamasi,
it's been a pleasure having you on. It's great to catch up,
my friend. Keep up the goodwork. Baseball is not boring, remember
that, John, Baseball is notRob Bradford is right. Nice to be
reunited, Gary. Oh and anytime, all right, John, take care
buddy. All right. It's greatto have John Tomask on with us from
(35:12):
NBC Sports Boston Celtics thing is fascinating, fascinating on who will be coming in
to buy it? And that's theprice of professional sports. Teams. Now,
it's very hard for one person tocome in and say I'm going to
be the owner. You know,I'm going to come in and I'm going
to be the local guy, andI'm going to buy the team, and
I'm gonna sit in the front rowand I'm going to pour my heart and
(35:32):
soul into the team. Billions andbillions of dollars. It's not a lot
of millionaires, but there's not asmany billionaires, so it's going to be
interesting. Coming up at eleven o'clock. Alec Baldwin, the trail, the
trial of Alec Balden got under waytoday and we are going to talk to
(35:52):
him coming up at eleven o'clock.Not Alec Baldwin, I'm sorry. We
are going to talk to Joshua Katzenberg, the Associate Professor of law at the
University of New Mexico School of Law, and it would be great to talk
to Alec Balden. That would bea hell of a get with it.
That's all coming up at eleven o'clockright here on wbz's Nightside. Now back
(36:15):
to Dan Ray live from the WindowWorld Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio Special
thanks to John Tomoshi for joining ushere on WBC's Nightside coming up at eleven
o'clock. As I mentioned, wewill cover the Alec Baldwin involuntary manslaugh of
charge. I guess it begins tomorrow. They did some official things in court
(36:37):
today as he is being charged forthe death of forty two year old cinematographer
Helena Hutchins, which was just sotragic, my god, and the chargers
were dropped once already, but theydecided to go at him again. And
if you need to be reinformed aboutthis, Hutchins was shot and killed when
(37:01):
a bullet was fired from a propgun on the set of Rust, in
which Baldwin was holding the gun,which but he was definitely careless, because
I know this. On a movieset, if you have a firearm,
you do not point it at anybody. You don't point that firearm at anybody.
(37:24):
You can be sure you have blanks, you can be sure it's empty.
You do not point the firearm atanybody on the set. There are
different ways they're doing it now infilm where you will they do a lot
of CGI stuff. You know,you have a gun that's basically a prop,
(37:45):
it's not a real firearm. Itlooks like a gun, but the
muzzle is covered, there's no barrel, if you will, and they'll point
the gun and in post production they'llput in the fire or the gun shot
of the bullet, of the smokeand all that stuff coming out of the
gun. So there's no danger inthat. But this was a low budget
(38:07):
movie. I mean, you couldtell this was not you know, the
Avengers here the movie Russ didn't appearto me to have a lot of money
going on with this production had alimited time, shortshooting period, and obviously
there were cutbacks here and they didn'tget the best of the best when it
(38:29):
came to the armorer and when itcame to gun safety, I mean,
that just seems to be obvious rightthere. With Baldwin. The thing that's
crazy about Baldwin didn't seem to havea He definitely had remorse. Obviously,
we saw the pictures of him whenhe after the fatality happened. He was
in tears, obviously, was veryupset, but then he was quick.
(38:52):
He went I believe he went onABC twenty twenty and he said that the
gun, he didn't pull the trigger, the hammer was pulled back, but
he never pulled the trigger. Andhe's been very active since then on social
media, and he has a realityshow coming out with his family. He
(39:13):
has a second wife where they havea number of young children. Man,
a woman died here and you're goingon having a reality show. I'd still
say it's just out of respect,you want to just stay low. But
sometimes celebrities at that level, withthat type of personality, just cannot stay
out of the limelight. I don'tknow if this guy's going to go to
(39:37):
jail. I don't know if heshould go to jail, but there's something
that the DA in New Mexico sees. Because the armor already has gone to
jail. We know that. Andit didn't seem like an awful lot.
I mean, she was pretty careless. Me posted pictures of herself with you
(39:58):
know, various types of weapons andstraps with bullets in him over her shoulder,
and I mean just a little littlenuts here my opinion. So Alec
Baldwin, will he be going tojail? That'll be something else, huh.
Star of thirty Rock, of course, I remember him from all the
(40:20):
movies. Earlier on the conference RedOctober that's coming up next, you'll discuss
that with Josh Katzenberg. You're associateprofessor at the University of Mexico. Baldwin,
will he be going to jail?Let's coming up on WBC's Nights
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