October 22, 2024 • 37 mins
In our continued efforts to cover the 2024 Massachusetts ballot questions, we took a look at Question 3 which asks, “Should rideshare drivers be allowed to unionize?” Kelly Cobb-Lemire, organizer of Massachusetts Drivers United, joined Dan to talk about how the passing of Q3 would undercut rideshare driver’s rights.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray WBZST Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, everybody, welcome on back, Welcome on back to Nightside,
a Tuesday night edition. Here weather forecast that is going
to get a little chillier as this week went on,
So I'm kind of bemoaning that. I mean, it's like
still been summer for a while. Okay, we are as
always here at WBZ, committed certainly on Nightside to explain
(00:28):
as best we can, both sides whenever possible. The various
ballot questions. There are five ballot questions this year that
we are going to be talking about, as I'm sure
we've talked about some of them already. I think many
of you are familiar with our support for the state
auditors authority to audit the legislature, which is Question one
(00:51):
that has the question that the state Auditor, Diane Desauglio
is basically would ask us to vote yes to allow
the state Auditor to audit, to have the authority to
audit the legislature. The legislature has not been cooperative there
that we have the elimination of the mcast as a
(01:12):
high school graduation requirement. That's kind of funny because if
you to eliminate it, you have to vote yes. To keep,
you have to vote no. There's also minimum ways for
tipped workers, which we're talked about a little bit, and
the limited legalization and regulation of certain natural psychedelic substances,
which we have talked about, but we have not talked
about today. Question three, unionization for transportation network drivers. And
(01:37):
we're delighted to be joined tonight by a representative who
is opposed to this question question three. Her name is
Kelly Cobb Lemir. She is with an organization which is
entitled the Massachusetts Drivers United. You're an organizer for that,
Kelly Cobb Lamir, Welcome to night Side. Thanks for being
(02:00):
available tonight. We will actually have a representative on the
yes side of question three, and I believe that they
will be joining us as early as tomorrow night in
this same hour, So give everybody an opportunity to hear
both sides of the issue. And this is kind of
this is a complicated one, Kelly. From our conversation today,
(02:21):
we'll keep it as simple as possible. First of all,
you are not a driver, correct, but you are a
union activist. I have you a fair way to describe you.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yes, definitely, we definitely. We're pro union. We are on grassroots,
one driver led organization, and we've been fighting for rights
and protections at drivers.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
How many members makes up the group Massachusetts Drivers United approximately.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
We have about probably about eighteen hundred to two thousand members.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
And these would be people who drive for either Uber
Lift those I assume you could also include bus drivers
or cab drivers. But are they Uber and Lyft drivers
or are similar ride share drivers.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
They would be ride share drivers Uber Lyft. But we
also we also have in our group a whole group
of workers, which would be delivery drivers. So okay, so
those people, those workers are left out of this ballot initiative,
and that's one of the reasons why we're opposed to it.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
So those would be the folks that deliver food, door
dash and those sort of drivers. When you order a
pizza late at night, that driver is out there hustling,
just like an Uber or a Lyft driver, but they're
transporting in most cases food. I guess they could also
transport other items, but they're not transporting people.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Right, I mean, basically this is you know, the ride
share drivers, so it doesn't include food delivery or passenger.
You know, there's also medical. Uber has a medical transport,
so they are transporting passengers, but they are leaving out
all the food delivery drivers. And you know, most drivers
(04:18):
work for multiple platforms, and so you know, Massachusetts Drivers
United has been advocating that all app based workers, including
food delivery drivers, be included in this. So there's a
huge group of workers that would be left out of
this law, those that work for door Dash, Instacart, and
Uber Eats.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well, my understanding, and I've tried to do a little
research on it, is that ballid questions in Massachusetts are
fairly closely monitored and it's not as if you and
I can get it just to just have to get
the signatures. They also have to sign the stand and qualify.
And the correct question would be if you try to
(04:57):
include again food rivers or or people who are not
Uber lift type drivers, meaning you know, the people who
drive another person from point A to point B, would
that disqualify this issue from even getting on the ballot
or would the Attorney General have said no, there's there's
(05:19):
too many internal questions here. You will it down just
a single question, right.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Well, you know, as we we've been advocating that it
is a complex issue. There has been legislation that mirrors
this ballot, and that's been legislation that mirrors what we've
been fighting for, which would make you know, drivers employees
and give them full rights, including all app based drivers.
(05:45):
But unfortunately the legislators thought it was too complex. I
think they were leaving it for the Attorney general settlement.
They were leaving it for.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Well, I'm sure that probably the legs or as they
are often influenced my businesses and companies who who might
maybe Uber Lyft. I assume that Uber and Lyft are
not thrilled about this question from any perspective, correct, They
would probably make me keep everything the way it is.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Well, it basically is in a lot of ways. I mean,
that's one of the reasons why we are against it
is that Uber and lyft a not against question three.
You know, customarily they've allocated hundreds of millions of dollars
into election battles to keep drivers from having rights. You know,
they did that in California when Prop twenty two was
(06:41):
on the ballot. And the fact that Uber and Lyft
are silent on this is really a strong indication that
it is benefiting them to some degree and not necessarily
the drivers. Obviously they're being classified as independent contractors. The
Attorney General. The Attorney General settlement, you know, solidify that.
(07:02):
But the lawsuit was actually about misclassification and they didn't
get a ruling on that. So this, in my mind,
because they're silent on it means that they're benefiting from it.
They actually are advertising to drivers. Oh look, we came
up with this settlement. You know, we're going to give
you thirty two to fifty an hour, We're going to
give you a few benefits, and they're actually promoting it.
(07:24):
So I mean that's a red flag for any labor
union to look at. Why is uber and left?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You know?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Okay with this?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Okay, this is a complicated issue and we will sort
it out as the evening goes on. We'll take it
little bites at a time. My guest is her name
is Kelly kab leamir. She's an organizer for a group
called the Massachusetts Drivers United, and they are opposed to
Question three. And again, your instinct would be that rideshare
(07:58):
drivers would support a question which allow them to unionize,
but this is a group that is opposed to that.
And as they said tomorrow night, we'll have on another
point of view on this issue. So if you'd like
to join the conversation, you're more than welcome if you
If you can help us bring some clarity to it,
that would be great. Uh six one, seven, two, five,
(08:18):
four thirty six, one seven, nine, ten thirty. I'll be
back with my guest, Kelly cobb Lemire of the Massachusetts
Drivers United, which is opposed to mass ballot Question three,
which would allow Uber and Lyft drivers to unionize. So, uh,
if you have a question, feel free to join us
(08:39):
back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Now, I know that I have a lot of Uber
drivers and Lyft drivers who are driving around right now
and listening to night Side, and I'm specific looking for
perspective from drivers, whether you're a member of the Massachusetts
Drivers United, a group that Kelly cobb Lemir represents, or
you're on the other side of this issue. The question
(09:13):
is Uber came on board? What about ten years ago?
All of a sudden Uber pops up and at least
that's the history that I recall. Are you with me
on that, Kelly?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, I'm about that time frame.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, And I was stunned that Uber could actually work
in cities like Boston where for many, many years Boston
had had eighteen hundred Hackney licenses and to get a
Hackney license you had to pay an arm and a
leg about a half a million dollars, And all of
a sudden Uber arrives and I just watched them decimate
(09:49):
the cab industry because the vehicles were cleaner, and the
drivers were younger, and they were more flexible with their hours.
So Uber has some pretty good lawyers and uh business
people associated with it. Those are the people who the
(10:09):
drivers are always going to be sitting across the table from.
And what you hope to do is to be able
to level that playing field. But why not take whatever
victory you can get and support this, uh, this ballot
initiative and then go back a year from now or
two years from now with another ballot initiative. What's what's
wrong with taking half a loaf or you know, three
(10:30):
quarters of a loaf, uh, at risk not getting any
of the loaf? Right?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, A lot of people have said that, you know,
isn't it better to have something than nothing? But you know,
The way I look at this, Dan, and the way
we look at it from a labor perspective is, uh,
this not only does it maintain the drivers as independent
contractors and doing nothing to confirm Massachusetts law that would
(10:59):
you know, cover drivers as full labor you know, with
full labor and employment rights. But this would actually create
a second tier of workers, you know, by granting this
group of workers some rights but not guaranteeing them access
to the rights of other Massachusetts workers, it really does
a disservice and in our minds it you know, it
(11:20):
creates a second tier with fewer rights and less power
and ability to even enforce those rights.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Assuming this statue, this ballot indership were to pass, what
rights would the drivers at least in the short run
miss out on.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Well, for sure, no unemployment insurance, no workers comp and
no overtime. And you know they're saying, oh, we're giving
you thirty two fifty an hour, but not really, because
it's only when you turn the app on and accept
a ride and then you deliver the passenger. There's no overtime,
(11:57):
there's no wait time. So it's basically you know that
one particular you know, when you're you know, you've accepted
a ride and you're delivering the passenger. And a lot
of times you'll ask uber and lyft drivers they're waiting
for passengers, they're they're you know, they're waiting for rides.
They're looking for the good rides, and they're looking for
(12:18):
things that work out for them, and so they're they're
waiting a lot. So you know, that doesn't really help them.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Correct me if I'm wrong, because I know a little
bit about this. But whenever you know a little bit
about something, it's my understanding is that because I've been
in situations where you say, yeah, I want to you know,
I'll take some over driver says yea, I'll pick you up,
and all of a sudden, the over driver disappears because
they have found or the lift driver disappears because they've
found a more lucrative fear. Does that happen, Well.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah, I mean it could. But I think what happens
is sometimes there's not a lot of transparency. Like I
know from some drivers they said they didn't even know
where the passenger would going. How could you accept a
ride with a you know, with a fair amount and
then not really know that you're maybe picking up multiple
people because there's also multiple stops. So I think, you know,
(13:12):
one of the reasons that we were promoting, you know,
wanting to pass legislation is because we want transparency, not
just for the drivers, but for passengers so they know
what what's happening, because a lot of times passengers are
assuming that whatever they're paying Uber and lyfts for this
fair is going to the driver, when actually, you.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Know, it's not.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
They may be getting maybe if they're lucky, thirty percent
and maybe a tip, but the drivers, you know, aren't.
Really there's not a lot of transparency, and that's why
we've been pushing for legislation.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Well, when they started out, I thought you told me
today that the drivers would get eighty percent. Has that
never been decreased by the big camp exactly?
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Originally a lot of drivers when they started driving, we're
making eighty percent, and that's because Uber and left we're
luring them in, and they were saying that, you know,
once they got in. Pretty much shortly after that, they
were they were not getting that same amount. They were
going down to like thirty percent. So yeah, that's and
(14:12):
they have Here's the thing too, Dan, if they really
were independent contractors by by the legal standard, you would
have negotiated your pay, So they're really employees subject to
whatever uber lyfticides to pay them for whatever fare. So,
I mean, that's the part that we really are trying
to point out is there's still this misclassification and you're
(14:33):
not giving them, you know, any of the benefits that
go along with being an employee because you're maintaining the
independent contractor to status, which isn't really true because they
they they would have already negotiated, you know, getting seventy
or eighty percent. But that's you know, that's part of
the problem.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
All right, let's do this. Let's get some phone calls
going here. Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty
or six one, seven, nine, three thirty. I'm going to
get Johnny, and Johnny's been waiting. Get Johnny gets you
in here before the news at the bottom of the hour.
You were first on Night Side with Kelly cobb Lemire
of the Massachusetts Drivers United.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Go ahead, Hi, Dan, missus Johnny from Selfie. Yeah, you know,
love listening to your show, and I just I just
need to get this twelve bye. I read the missiative
petition and it sounded like they were union people that
were preventing, uh, the independent people, the people that work
(15:32):
for wolver Lift or whatever they were, they were preventing
them from becoming unionized. That did I get that right?
That pass?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Well, let's see what Kelly says. Kelly's a union person,
she's opposed to the initiative. So I assume you could
come to that conclusion. But let's let Kelly defend. Okay, sure, Kelly,
why don't you tell John you what your credentials are.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
We're definitely pro union. We we definitely part of our
you know, mission statement is for a pathway to a union.
The reason why, you know, there's multiple reasons and multiple
layers and the complexity of why we don't support this
ballot initiative is it And it's not just because we
don't want a pathway to a union. It's because of
(16:25):
all these other things that go along with it. So
we're definitely pro.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
The other reasons, well I mentioned that.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Was that it maintains the drivers as independent contractors. It
creates a second tier of workers. It was no overtime,
no unemployment insurance, no workers comp So these workers are
getting some rights, but not access to all different rights.
Another huge reason why we are questioning. This is because
(16:58):
this pathway to a unionization that is in this ballot
initiative leaves out the National Labor Relations Act, which is
a national law that protects workers' rights to organize. That
law is much stronger than question three. Question three completely
leaves out some of the rights, for example, the right
(17:18):
to strike when workers don't take.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
I'm sorry, you're talking about the National Labor Relation for.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
The National Labor Relations Act, Yeah, the Wagner Act. It's
a national law that protects workers' rights to organize, and
that would be stronger than this because because this isn't
isn't national law, it's only state law. So state law
would not give them as many rights. So what kind
of leverage? You know, why would Massachusetts want a law
(17:50):
that didn't give workers the basic right to strike? You
know that leverage?
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Yeah, so if they got their foot in the door.
I'm sorry, I just get clear because I know how
I feel about it, and I've never heard in all
my years of being a union activist and a union
elected official that unions were trying to prevent other people
to get to where we got by just being middle
(18:17):
class people.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
And so.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
If they got the foot in the door by letting
them unionize, then just by getting in the getting a
foot in the door, they can work on those things
that we're trying to prevent them to go to the
next step.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Which John, that's a good argument. But again, I think
that Kelly has explained it a couple of times, and
I think that I asked for your question kind of
the same way. Isn't it better take half of me?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I'm sorry, I.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Nothing, No, no, no, that's fine.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Just get on to you.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
That's fine. No, I just wanted to know. I'm glad
you got the same answer that I did. Kelly has
been very forthright with both you and me, and I
appreciate you. Call. John, thank you. We've got the nine
to thirty news, so I got to take a quick break.
The only well, we got two lines open, one at
six one, seven thirty and we have one at six
one seven ninety. Fill them up. We'll get you in.
(19:10):
You can ask whatever questions you would like of my guest,
Kelly kabb Lamir. She's with a group called Mass Drivers United.
This group, she says, about eighteen hundred to two thousand
right share drivers are as well as other people who
DoorDash drivers who basically make their living transporting in the
(19:30):
case of Uber and Lyft, transporting people in the case
of door Dash, and others importing uh transporting products. Kelly
Cobb LAMIIR opposed to question three, which would allow Uber
and Lyft drivers to organize. Her group is mass Drivers
at night It feel free to join the conversation. Ask
a question. Be back on Nightside right after the news
(19:52):
at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
If you're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
My guest is Kelly Cobb LEMIR. She's opposed to question three.
She represents. She tells me some eighteen hundred to two
thousand Massachusetts drivers in a group called mass Drivers United.
She says that membership includes and if I'm wrong here,
correct me, some Uber, some Lyft drivers, but also people
(20:22):
who work for door Dash. I mean Uber Lyft drivers
transport people. There are other drivers out there that transport documents,
They transport food and things that are that are not people.
But she feels that this question three does not go
far enough to cover all of the concerns that any
of these drivers might have. Let me go to Ryan,
(20:44):
who's calling in from Fall River. Ryan welcome your first
you're actually your second this hour. But I'm beginning to
think you might be a first time caller, Ryan, because
I can't recall someone from by from fall of Ryan.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Yeah, I am a first time caller. I'm actually one
of them members of massachus Drivers United along with.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Okay, well, I just wanted we just give you a
run of applause from my digital studio audience. I wanted
you to be honored properly. You go right ahead. So
I assume you're in agreement with Kelly. Kelly kobb Lamir
tell us, tell us, why yes.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
So I've actually been dealing with a lot of issues
with being a lift driver. I am a full time
lift driver, where being uh classified as an employee would
be very beneficial to me and to all the other
drivers for simple reasons of like doing taxes. Having them
(21:41):
be required to do all of our taxes and we
just get the normal tax from that everyone else gets.
That'd be very beneficial. So we're not having to sit
there and go through all of our dass receipts that
we have to get any service order receipts that we've
done throughout the year, and we have to keep every
single thing that we do and so that we can
(22:01):
make sure we maximize.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Let me ask you this, right, how would that change?
In other words, if let's say you maintained your car
as a normal business expense, you you would be you'd
be able to take that as a tax deduction as
long as this you know a certain amount of money
based upon how much you made, But you'd have to
(22:26):
be able to show that receipt uh to someone whoever's
preparing your taxes. Sound to me like you're not a
guy that wants to do the work of preparing your taxes.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Well, yes, you do still have to have certain receipts
doing normal taxes for everyone and even now, but doing
basically being your own business owner, you're required to people
far more information than a normal regular person doing a
normal W two job does. All they get is they
get their W two.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Erstand there there were some people who liked the idea
of being their own that's fine, there are some. But
but you don't fall in that category, which is perfectly understandable.
So that that makes it this attractive to you. So
you're going to vote no on this question?
Speaker 5 (23:10):
Yeah, as well as there's also other reasons like I
believe that the uh the type of unions that we
will end up getting if the question gets voted yes,
will essentially be or could potentially be yellow unions because
(23:30):
of the fact that a lot of the h information
and like h you call it, literature that went into
how this question got written was heavily influenced by Uber
and Lyft, not directly.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Okay, you use the term yellow unions. I heard that
term before. We mean that somehow Uber and Lyft is
behind this unionization because it would be beneficial to them.
Is that sort of correct?
Speaker 5 (24:01):
So if for anyone who doesn't know what a your
union is, essentially it is a union that is funded
or uh controlled by the company that is a union
of so it all benefits the company and doesn't actually
(24:22):
fully end up benefiting the the employees and union members.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
How much research did you have to do on this, Ryan,
You're well spoken to come to your conclusion.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
I've been hearing everything and doing my own research for
since I've started driving with Lift because it's been headaches
since I've started because they do so much different things
that affect me and affect how make money. Like Lift
(24:53):
has what's called these bonus clouds on the map when
you're driving around and you could be driving up to
one and then all of a sudden just disappears out
of your sight, and then you drive through the area,
or you go out of that area for a few
seconds and it just comes back in, but you try
and go back and it disappears. Is things like that
(25:14):
that could.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Be So that sounds like the employ that It sounds
to me if that's true, that uber Lyft is kind
of playing a game.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
Right and so being able to have proper unions that
are good and that what me and Kelly have been
trying to fight for and our group has been fighting for.
We're also employees as well, so we can have those
type of proper type of unions. As being an employee,
we could fight to have actual changes done to the
app because currently the only way for any of us
(25:46):
drivers to get hold of people is to call there.
For me, as a lift driver, all I have is
their driver Help Center call line, which goes to a
foreign call center.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Direct I'm deal with. I'll tell me I feel your pain.
I've dealt with a lot of those foreign Can I
tell you that that if you ask for what is
called then here's a trick with some companies. If you
say I'd like to speak with an onshore representative, they
then will treat someone in the USA.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Yeah, maybe I'll try that next time.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Put it in your back pocket. Now, if they don't
have any on shore representatives and they're dealing with everyone
you know overseas, obviously that doesn't work. Hey, Brian, that
was a great call. Thank you. I just got to
get a couple more, well few more in here before
the hours up Best Alive. It was a good call.
Do me favorite shot listening to my program? Okay, I
really mean that. How old are you are you selling
your young guy?
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Oh yeah, I'm actually twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Well good for you. This is this is the type
of type of work that you like to do. Yes,
good for you. Good for you. Work hard. Thanks, Ryan,
appreciate it very much.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Thank you for having me here.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
You're very welcome. Let me get take some courage when
you're twenty seven years old to pick up the phone
and call a talk show for Attleborough. John, you were
next with Kelly kobb Lemire on Nightside, Right head John?
Speaker 6 (27:05):
All right, Dan, I listened to your show a lot
when I'm out late at night. How are you tonight.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I'm doing great. Nice to make your acquaintance. Have you
called before?
Speaker 6 (27:11):
And no, I no, I don't believe I have.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
We'll give you a round of a clause too, John,
It's good. What's your what's you're taking? What Kelly had
to say?
Speaker 6 (27:22):
Well, I'm driving Uber for about seven weeks, so I'm
relatively new at it, and I like it. I love
it actually because I sit behind a computer all day
doing it work, and I go out and drive four
or five hours a night part time, and it's it's
it's social time for me.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, you talk to the human beings. I get that. Yeah,
you talk to people.
Speaker 6 (27:46):
I get that exactly. So to clarify a couple of
things about what you guys were talking about before the
nine thirty YEWS book, Sure, relative relative to how much
money of the fair that drivers receive, Yes, as far
as Uber goes, I can't speak for Lift, but for Uber,
(28:09):
we get between ninety two and ninety three percent of
what the customer's fair is. And Okay, the way that
I know that is that we can using the app,
when our ride is done, we can actually drill into
we can actually drill into that ride and they give
(28:30):
you a high graph of this is how much you
were paid, and this percentage went to insurance, this percentage
goes to Uber for you know, corporate profit. This percent
went to such and so, and they pick it down
by the percent.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Right something. So you're telling me that, you're telling me
that as an Uber driver today. Uh and this isn't
it because you're a first a Nubia, a new driver.
This is what Uber drivers get if they drilled down.
You're telling me it's ninety two, between ninety two and
ninety three percent. Right.
Speaker 6 (29:06):
It does change a little bit from day to day,
but they tell you when you take the wrine, you
you know you received.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Well, let me let me get Kelly's Let me get
I just wanted to. We got a real difference here.
Let me just get Kelly's quick comments on it. You
don't need to debate it. But Kelly, uh, John is
saying something significantly different than what we talked about before
the news.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
What do you yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
I mean the drivers that I talked to are not
getting that much. You know, like I said, when they
started out, they were getting a higher percentage. Now they're
lucky to get uh you know, maybe thirty percent. Sometimes
they sometimes they've worked all day and they've had two
rides and they've made no money. So you know, are
you relying John on what Uber and lifted telling you,
(29:53):
or do you actually are you able to see from
your app what the passenger paid and what you received?
Speaker 7 (30:01):
No, I am not able to check. We we only
we only get to see what we get paid. But
I've checked with riders. Geez, if you don't mind you
telling me I'm getting paid twenty one dollars and seventy
six dollars twenty one dollars and seventy six cents for
this ride to Providence, just so that I can keep.
Speaker 6 (30:21):
Track, Do you mind telling me how Coober is trying you?
And they'll I've had people tell me, oh, you know,
twenty five dollars or twenty four dollars, twenty six whatever
it is, and it checks out.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
You'll check out, right, John. I appreciated your call. This
is a complicated subject, but I'm past my break and
if I don't get a break, I'm going to be
driving Uber next week.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
Okay, good night.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Thanks John, Please call again. I enjoyed the conversation. Will
we'll take a break. My guest is Kelly kobb Lemire.
She's a group called Master Ivers United. They are against
Question three, which would allow Lyft and Uber drivers to unionize.
Will be back. We're going to try to get everyone
in between now and ten o'clock. We're going to be
talking at ten o'clock about the state of the presidential
(31:07):
race two weeks from right now. You'll be hearing different
broadcasters tell you this particular state went to this candidate,
this particular state went to that candidate. So we are
now within the two week and I thought tonight we'll
check on state of the race and we'll talk with
Spencer Kimball, Emerson College's premier and I mean truly premier polster.
(31:28):
Great guy and a great polster. Back on Nightside after this.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
nights Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Okay, we're getting tight on time. Let's see what we
can do with everybody. We'll try a quick question of
comment Mike and Boston. Mike. Next on Nightside, Dan, how
are you. I'm doing great, Mike, We're tight on time.
Speaker 8 (31:50):
I'll get I'll be quick here.
Speaker 9 (31:52):
I'm a big supporter of unions, but I thought the
whole business model for Uber was flexibility for the workers
when they only work when they want. So how does
that square with you know, uh, you know the ago
debate will be independent contractor versus employee. And then I
had a quick comment on waiting timerect.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Go right ahead, So I mean sorry, no, go ahead, Kelly.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Oh okay. Well, actually, Mike, thanks for the question. I
think that's one of the things that Uber and Left
have been really like pushing, Oh, you need flexibility, flexibility
and benefits. You need to be independent contractors in order
to have flexibility. But actually, flexibility is not tied to
your employment status. You can be at W two worker
(32:40):
and be flexible, you know. So to me, it's a
fear tactic. You know, they're not going to put Uber
and Lyft drivers, as you said, their model their business model.
You can't put them on a schedule, so you know
you are going to be flexible. So the fact that
they're saying, oh, you know, only to maintain independent contrast,
you know, the only way to obtain your UH or
(33:03):
keep your independent contractor status is to be flexible, and
you know, to be an independent contract and not an employee.
It's just because they don't want to pay you. You know,
they don't want to pay you to be an employee.
They don't want to give you the benefits and the
rights that they would pay you if you were an employee.
So it's it's just a fear tactic.
Speaker 8 (33:21):
Yeah, fair point. One quick comment you mentioned about being
paid for waiting time. My niece is a flight attendants
one of the major airlines in the bomb. I was
shocked to find out she doesn't get paid.
Speaker 9 (33:32):
Till the door closes, so forty five.
Speaker 8 (33:35):
Minutes while they're they're passenger, they don't get paid.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
It's amazing, right right.
Speaker 10 (33:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
My brother's an airline pilot, the same thing. They don't.
They don't get any waiting time either. But you know
that's negotiating. They're a union, so they could negotiate that,
but for some reason they they don't.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I got to keep rolling. Got to keep rolling it, Mike,
Thank you much. I want to get to a couple
more calls. Thank you, sir, appreciate it. Jannis and Melrose.
Jane's got to be quick, real quick, go ahead, Jennis.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
One thing I didn't understand reading the ballet question is
why the state is so involved.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I mean, if ups drivers had an agreement with their company.
Massachusetts doesn't have to approve it, does it. And they've
all served the public. I just didn't understand there was
a lot of arbitration with the state, and I didn't, I.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Guess in order for them to they tried to get
it through the legislature. Didn't work, and so therefore they're
trying to They're trying to get the right to unionize
through the.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
CRE and we don't. We don't. We want to do
away with arbitration. So absolutely, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Okay, thanks Jenny, good question, good clarification question. It was
very good. Mary and Lynn. Mary next on nightside, we're
gonna be able to get you in.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Go ahead, Mary, h good night.
Speaker 10 (34:43):
Then, thank you for that opportunity that you've given us
today to open, you know, and talk about this. Look,
I'm gonna talk to you. I'm an uber driver and
I'm gonna talk to you me personally. Look, I just
got home. I left home this morning at six o'clock
in the morning then and I just got back home.
(35:06):
In order for me to make my goal, I have
to work twelve to fourteen hours. Okay, okay, what it is.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Let me ask you this, Mirry, if I can, and
I don't mean to rush you. You've called in light.
I'm so glad you did call in. How do you feel?
How are you going to vote as an Uber driver
on this question in favorable?
Speaker 10 (35:26):
Yes? Yes, we need is an abuse they charging our
allergic to a people and giving us thirty percent and
forty percent. Sometime. I drove fourteen hours Monday through Saturday
and Sunday. I treat myself. I drive a hour in
order for me to make money. I done thirty thousand
(35:49):
ride with Uban, thirty thousand ride with Uber and a right.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I'm flat out of time, but yours was a great call.
Speaker 10 (36:02):
You.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
You express yourself really well in the passion. We can
hear it and feel it. Thank you for what you do,
and please keep listening to Night's Cyber. We'll always be
there for you, okay, and.
Speaker 10 (36:13):
I love to be a Uber driver.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 10 (36:17):
I love you, Mary, I love the people, I love people,
and I love my job.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
All right, Mary, I gotta let you go because I'll
lose my job if I don't, if I don't break
time for the news. Thanks Mary, Doug, Okay, have a
great night. Thank you, Mary. Kelly. We got about thirty
seconds left. I give you a thirty second elevator pitch
why people should vote against question three.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Go ahead, Okay.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
One of the biggest things that we didn't talk about
but Ryan tapped upon is that we want a union.
So we're pro union. We're just we're against this particular
union because this union. Okay. The creators of this ballot
initiative is IDG Independent Drivers Guild. They were set up
in twenty sixteen by Uber. They receive large sums of
(37:05):
funding from both Uber and Lyft and along with SEIU.
So common sense will say a union must be financially
independent of their employer, and this is not the case
here when drivers.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
It's like the end of the ride here, so I
got to stop you. We will talk to someone on
the other side of this issue tomorrow night during the
nine o'clock hours, during the nine o'clock hour, Kelly, I
thank you very much, and we will follow this closely.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Thank you for having me on. I appreciate the time.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
You're welcome. Here comes the ten o'clock news. This is
Nightside with Dan Rabiack. Right on the other Side'm going
to be talking with Spencer Kimball about the state of
the race. You know what race I'm talking about. He's
a poster for Suffolk University.
It's Night Side with Dan Ray WBZST Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, everybody, welcome on back, Welcome on back to Nightside,
a Tuesday night edition. Here weather forecast that is going
to get a little chillier as this week went on,
So I'm kind of bemoaning that. I mean, it's like
still been summer for a while. Okay, we are as
always here at WBZ, committed certainly on Nightside to explain
(00:28):
as best we can, both sides whenever possible. The various
ballot questions. There are five ballot questions this year that
we are going to be talking about, as I'm sure
we've talked about some of them already. I think many
of you are familiar with our support for the state
auditors authority to audit the legislature, which is Question one
(00:51):
that has the question that the state Auditor, Diane Desauglio
is basically would ask us to vote yes to allow
the state Auditor to audit, to have the authority to
audit the legislature. The legislature has not been cooperative there
that we have the elimination of the mcast as a
(01:12):
high school graduation requirement. That's kind of funny because if
you to eliminate it, you have to vote yes. To keep,
you have to vote no. There's also minimum ways for
tipped workers, which we're talked about a little bit, and
the limited legalization and regulation of certain natural psychedelic substances,
which we have talked about, but we have not talked
about today. Question three, unionization for transportation network drivers. And
(01:37):
we're delighted to be joined tonight by a representative who
is opposed to this question question three. Her name is
Kelly Cobb Lemir. She is with an organization which is
entitled the Massachusetts Drivers United. You're an organizer for that,
Kelly Cobb Lamir, Welcome to night Side. Thanks for being
(02:00):
available tonight. We will actually have a representative on the
yes side of question three, and I believe that they
will be joining us as early as tomorrow night in
this same hour, So give everybody an opportunity to hear
both sides of the issue. And this is kind of
this is a complicated one, Kelly. From our conversation today,
(02:21):
we'll keep it as simple as possible. First of all,
you are not a driver, correct, but you are a
union activist. I have you a fair way to describe you.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yes, definitely, we definitely. We're pro union. We are on grassroots,
one driver led organization, and we've been fighting for rights
and protections at drivers.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
How many members makes up the group Massachusetts Drivers United approximately.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
We have about probably about eighteen hundred to two thousand members.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
And these would be people who drive for either Uber
Lift those I assume you could also include bus drivers
or cab drivers. But are they Uber and Lyft drivers
or are similar ride share drivers.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
They would be ride share drivers Uber Lyft. But we
also we also have in our group a whole group
of workers, which would be delivery drivers. So okay, so
those people, those workers are left out of this ballot initiative,
and that's one of the reasons why we're opposed to it.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
So those would be the folks that deliver food, door
dash and those sort of drivers. When you order a
pizza late at night, that driver is out there hustling,
just like an Uber or a Lyft driver, but they're
transporting in most cases food. I guess they could also
transport other items, but they're not transporting people.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Right, I mean, basically this is you know, the ride
share drivers, so it doesn't include food delivery or passenger.
You know, there's also medical. Uber has a medical transport,
so they are transporting passengers, but they are leaving out
all the food delivery drivers. And you know, most drivers
(04:18):
work for multiple platforms, and so you know, Massachusetts Drivers
United has been advocating that all app based workers, including
food delivery drivers, be included in this. So there's a
huge group of workers that would be left out of
this law, those that work for door Dash, Instacart, and
Uber Eats.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well, my understanding, and I've tried to do a little
research on it, is that ballid questions in Massachusetts are
fairly closely monitored and it's not as if you and
I can get it just to just have to get
the signatures. They also have to sign the stand and qualify.
And the correct question would be if you try to
(04:57):
include again food rivers or or people who are not
Uber lift type drivers, meaning you know, the people who
drive another person from point A to point B, would
that disqualify this issue from even getting on the ballot
or would the Attorney General have said no, there's there's
(05:19):
too many internal questions here. You will it down just
a single question, right.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Well, you know, as we we've been advocating that it
is a complex issue. There has been legislation that mirrors
this ballot, and that's been legislation that mirrors what we've
been fighting for, which would make you know, drivers employees
and give them full rights, including all app based drivers.
(05:45):
But unfortunately the legislators thought it was too complex. I
think they were leaving it for the Attorney general settlement.
They were leaving it for.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Well, I'm sure that probably the legs or as they
are often influenced my businesses and companies who who might
maybe Uber Lyft. I assume that Uber and Lyft are
not thrilled about this question from any perspective, correct, They
would probably make me keep everything the way it is.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Well, it basically is in a lot of ways. I mean,
that's one of the reasons why we are against it
is that Uber and lyft a not against question three.
You know, customarily they've allocated hundreds of millions of dollars
into election battles to keep drivers from having rights. You know,
they did that in California when Prop twenty two was
(06:41):
on the ballot. And the fact that Uber and Lyft
are silent on this is really a strong indication that
it is benefiting them to some degree and not necessarily
the drivers. Obviously they're being classified as independent contractors. The
Attorney General. The Attorney General settlement, you know, solidify that.
(07:02):
But the lawsuit was actually about misclassification and they didn't
get a ruling on that. So this, in my mind,
because they're silent on it means that they're benefiting from it.
They actually are advertising to drivers. Oh look, we came
up with this settlement. You know, we're going to give
you thirty two to fifty an hour, We're going to
give you a few benefits, and they're actually promoting it.
(07:24):
So I mean that's a red flag for any labor
union to look at. Why is uber and left?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You know?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Okay with this?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Okay, this is a complicated issue and we will sort
it out as the evening goes on. We'll take it
little bites at a time. My guest is her name
is Kelly kab leamir. She's an organizer for a group
called the Massachusetts Drivers United, and they are opposed to
Question three. And again, your instinct would be that rideshare
(07:58):
drivers would support a question which allow them to unionize,
but this is a group that is opposed to that.
And as they said tomorrow night, we'll have on another
point of view on this issue. So if you'd like
to join the conversation, you're more than welcome if you
If you can help us bring some clarity to it,
that would be great. Uh six one, seven, two, five,
(08:18):
four thirty six, one seven, nine, ten thirty. I'll be
back with my guest, Kelly cobb Lemire of the Massachusetts
Drivers United, which is opposed to mass ballot Question three,
which would allow Uber and Lyft drivers to unionize. So, uh,
if you have a question, feel free to join us
(08:39):
back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Now, I know that I have a lot of Uber
drivers and Lyft drivers who are driving around right now
and listening to night Side, and I'm specific looking for
perspective from drivers, whether you're a member of the Massachusetts
Drivers United, a group that Kelly cobb Lemir represents, or
you're on the other side of this issue. The question
(09:13):
is Uber came on board? What about ten years ago?
All of a sudden Uber pops up and at least
that's the history that I recall. Are you with me
on that, Kelly?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, I'm about that time frame.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, And I was stunned that Uber could actually work
in cities like Boston where for many, many years Boston
had had eighteen hundred Hackney licenses and to get a
Hackney license you had to pay an arm and a
leg about a half a million dollars, And all of
a sudden Uber arrives and I just watched them decimate
(09:49):
the cab industry because the vehicles were cleaner, and the
drivers were younger, and they were more flexible with their hours.
So Uber has some pretty good lawyers and uh business
people associated with it. Those are the people who the
(10:09):
drivers are always going to be sitting across the table from.
And what you hope to do is to be able
to level that playing field. But why not take whatever
victory you can get and support this, uh, this ballot
initiative and then go back a year from now or
two years from now with another ballot initiative. What's what's
wrong with taking half a loaf or you know, three
(10:30):
quarters of a loaf, uh, at risk not getting any
of the loaf? Right?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, A lot of people have said that, you know,
isn't it better to have something than nothing? But you know,
The way I look at this, Dan, and the way
we look at it from a labor perspective is, uh,
this not only does it maintain the drivers as independent
contractors and doing nothing to confirm Massachusetts law that would
(10:59):
you know, cover drivers as full labor you know, with
full labor and employment rights. But this would actually create
a second tier of workers, you know, by granting this
group of workers some rights but not guaranteeing them access
to the rights of other Massachusetts workers, it really does
a disservice and in our minds it you know, it
(11:20):
creates a second tier with fewer rights and less power
and ability to even enforce those rights.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Assuming this statue, this ballot indership were to pass, what
rights would the drivers at least in the short run
miss out on.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Well, for sure, no unemployment insurance, no workers comp and
no overtime. And you know they're saying, oh, we're giving
you thirty two fifty an hour, but not really, because
it's only when you turn the app on and accept
a ride and then you deliver the passenger. There's no overtime,
(11:57):
there's no wait time. So it's basically you know that
one particular you know, when you're you know, you've accepted
a ride and you're delivering the passenger. And a lot
of times you'll ask uber and lyft drivers they're waiting
for passengers, they're they're you know, they're waiting for rides.
They're looking for the good rides, and they're looking for
(12:18):
things that work out for them, and so they're they're
waiting a lot. So you know, that doesn't really help them.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Correct me if I'm wrong, because I know a little
bit about this. But whenever you know a little bit
about something, it's my understanding is that because I've been
in situations where you say, yeah, I want to you know,
I'll take some over driver says yea, I'll pick you up,
and all of a sudden, the over driver disappears because
they have found or the lift driver disappears because they've
found a more lucrative fear. Does that happen, Well.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah, I mean it could. But I think what happens
is sometimes there's not a lot of transparency. Like I
know from some drivers they said they didn't even know
where the passenger would going. How could you accept a
ride with a you know, with a fair amount and
then not really know that you're maybe picking up multiple
people because there's also multiple stops. So I think, you know,
(13:12):
one of the reasons that we were promoting, you know,
wanting to pass legislation is because we want transparency, not
just for the drivers, but for passengers so they know
what what's happening, because a lot of times passengers are
assuming that whatever they're paying Uber and lyfts for this
fair is going to the driver, when actually, you.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Know, it's not.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
They may be getting maybe if they're lucky, thirty percent
and maybe a tip, but the drivers, you know, aren't.
Really there's not a lot of transparency, and that's why
we've been pushing for legislation.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Well, when they started out, I thought you told me
today that the drivers would get eighty percent. Has that
never been decreased by the big camp exactly?
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Originally a lot of drivers when they started driving, we're
making eighty percent, and that's because Uber and left we're
luring them in, and they were saying that, you know,
once they got in. Pretty much shortly after that, they
were they were not getting that same amount. They were
going down to like thirty percent. So yeah, that's and
(14:12):
they have Here's the thing too, Dan, if they really
were independent contractors by by the legal standard, you would
have negotiated your pay, So they're really employees subject to
whatever uber lyfticides to pay them for whatever fare. So,
I mean, that's the part that we really are trying
to point out is there's still this misclassification and you're
(14:33):
not giving them, you know, any of the benefits that
go along with being an employee because you're maintaining the
independent contractor to status, which isn't really true because they
they they would have already negotiated, you know, getting seventy
or eighty percent. But that's you know, that's part of
the problem.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
All right, let's do this. Let's get some phone calls
going here. Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty
or six one, seven, nine, three thirty. I'm going to
get Johnny, and Johnny's been waiting. Get Johnny gets you
in here before the news at the bottom of the hour.
You were first on Night Side with Kelly cobb Lemire
of the Massachusetts Drivers United.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Go ahead, Hi, Dan, missus Johnny from Selfie. Yeah, you know,
love listening to your show, and I just I just
need to get this twelve bye. I read the missiative
petition and it sounded like they were union people that
were preventing, uh, the independent people, the people that work
(15:32):
for wolver Lift or whatever they were, they were preventing
them from becoming unionized. That did I get that right?
That pass?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Well, let's see what Kelly says. Kelly's a union person,
she's opposed to the initiative. So I assume you could
come to that conclusion. But let's let Kelly defend. Okay, sure, Kelly,
why don't you tell John you what your credentials are.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
We're definitely pro union. We we definitely part of our
you know, mission statement is for a pathway to a union.
The reason why, you know, there's multiple reasons and multiple
layers and the complexity of why we don't support this
ballot initiative is it And it's not just because we
don't want a pathway to a union. It's because of
(16:25):
all these other things that go along with it. So
we're definitely pro.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
The other reasons, well I mentioned that.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Was that it maintains the drivers as independent contractors. It
creates a second tier of workers. It was no overtime,
no unemployment insurance, no workers comp So these workers are
getting some rights, but not access to all different rights.
Another huge reason why we are questioning. This is because
(16:58):
this pathway to a unionization that is in this ballot
initiative leaves out the National Labor Relations Act, which is
a national law that protects workers' rights to organize. That
law is much stronger than question three. Question three completely
leaves out some of the rights, for example, the right
(17:18):
to strike when workers don't take.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
I'm sorry, you're talking about the National Labor Relation for.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
The National Labor Relations Act, Yeah, the Wagner Act. It's
a national law that protects workers' rights to organize, and
that would be stronger than this because because this isn't
isn't national law, it's only state law. So state law
would not give them as many rights. So what kind
of leverage? You know, why would Massachusetts want a law
(17:50):
that didn't give workers the basic right to strike? You
know that leverage?
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Yeah, so if they got their foot in the door.
I'm sorry, I just get clear because I know how
I feel about it, and I've never heard in all
my years of being a union activist and a union
elected official that unions were trying to prevent other people
to get to where we got by just being middle
(18:17):
class people.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
And so.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
If they got the foot in the door by letting
them unionize, then just by getting in the getting a
foot in the door, they can work on those things
that we're trying to prevent them to go to the
next step.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Which John, that's a good argument. But again, I think
that Kelly has explained it a couple of times, and
I think that I asked for your question kind of
the same way. Isn't it better take half of me?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I'm sorry, I.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Nothing, No, no, no, that's fine.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Just get on to you.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
That's fine. No, I just wanted to know. I'm glad
you got the same answer that I did. Kelly has
been very forthright with both you and me, and I
appreciate you. Call. John, thank you. We've got the nine
to thirty news, so I got to take a quick break.
The only well, we got two lines open, one at
six one, seven thirty and we have one at six
one seven ninety. Fill them up. We'll get you in.
(19:10):
You can ask whatever questions you would like of my guest,
Kelly kabb Lamir. She's with a group called Mass Drivers United.
This group, she says, about eighteen hundred to two thousand
right share drivers are as well as other people who
DoorDash drivers who basically make their living transporting in the
(19:30):
case of Uber and Lyft, transporting people in the case
of door Dash, and others importing uh transporting products. Kelly
Cobb LAMIIR opposed to question three, which would allow Uber
and Lyft drivers to organize. Her group is mass Drivers
at night It feel free to join the conversation. Ask
a question. Be back on Nightside right after the news
(19:52):
at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
If you're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
My guest is Kelly Cobb LEMIR. She's opposed to question three.
She represents. She tells me some eighteen hundred to two
thousand Massachusetts drivers in a group called mass Drivers United.
She says that membership includes and if I'm wrong here,
correct me, some Uber, some Lyft drivers, but also people
(20:22):
who work for door Dash. I mean Uber Lyft drivers
transport people. There are other drivers out there that transport documents,
They transport food and things that are that are not people.
But she feels that this question three does not go
far enough to cover all of the concerns that any
of these drivers might have. Let me go to Ryan,
(20:44):
who's calling in from Fall River. Ryan welcome your first
you're actually your second this hour. But I'm beginning to
think you might be a first time caller, Ryan, because
I can't recall someone from by from fall of Ryan.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Yeah, I am a first time caller. I'm actually one
of them members of massachus Drivers United along with.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Okay, well, I just wanted we just give you a
run of applause from my digital studio audience. I wanted
you to be honored properly. You go right ahead. So
I assume you're in agreement with Kelly. Kelly kobb Lamir
tell us, tell us, why yes.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
So I've actually been dealing with a lot of issues
with being a lift driver. I am a full time
lift driver, where being uh classified as an employee would
be very beneficial to me and to all the other
drivers for simple reasons of like doing taxes. Having them
(21:41):
be required to do all of our taxes and we
just get the normal tax from that everyone else gets.
That'd be very beneficial. So we're not having to sit
there and go through all of our dass receipts that
we have to get any service order receipts that we've
done throughout the year, and we have to keep every
single thing that we do and so that we can
(22:01):
make sure we maximize.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Let me ask you this, right, how would that change?
In other words, if let's say you maintained your car
as a normal business expense, you you would be you'd
be able to take that as a tax deduction as
long as this you know a certain amount of money
based upon how much you made, But you'd have to
(22:26):
be able to show that receipt uh to someone whoever's
preparing your taxes. Sound to me like you're not a
guy that wants to do the work of preparing your taxes.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Well, yes, you do still have to have certain receipts
doing normal taxes for everyone and even now, but doing
basically being your own business owner, you're required to people
far more information than a normal regular person doing a
normal W two job does. All they get is they
get their W two.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Erstand there there were some people who liked the idea
of being their own that's fine, there are some. But
but you don't fall in that category, which is perfectly understandable.
So that that makes it this attractive to you. So
you're going to vote no on this question?
Speaker 5 (23:10):
Yeah, as well as there's also other reasons like I
believe that the uh the type of unions that we
will end up getting if the question gets voted yes,
will essentially be or could potentially be yellow unions because
(23:30):
of the fact that a lot of the h information
and like h you call it, literature that went into
how this question got written was heavily influenced by Uber
and Lyft, not directly.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Okay, you use the term yellow unions. I heard that
term before. We mean that somehow Uber and Lyft is
behind this unionization because it would be beneficial to them.
Is that sort of correct?
Speaker 5 (24:01):
So if for anyone who doesn't know what a your
union is, essentially it is a union that is funded
or uh controlled by the company that is a union
of so it all benefits the company and doesn't actually
(24:22):
fully end up benefiting the the employees and union members.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
How much research did you have to do on this, Ryan,
You're well spoken to come to your conclusion.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
I've been hearing everything and doing my own research for
since I've started driving with Lift because it's been headaches
since I've started because they do so much different things
that affect me and affect how make money. Like Lift
(24:53):
has what's called these bonus clouds on the map when
you're driving around and you could be driving up to
one and then all of a sudden just disappears out
of your sight, and then you drive through the area,
or you go out of that area for a few
seconds and it just comes back in, but you try
and go back and it disappears. Is things like that
(25:14):
that could.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Be So that sounds like the employ that It sounds
to me if that's true, that uber Lyft is kind
of playing a game.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
Right and so being able to have proper unions that
are good and that what me and Kelly have been
trying to fight for and our group has been fighting for.
We're also employees as well, so we can have those
type of proper type of unions. As being an employee,
we could fight to have actual changes done to the
app because currently the only way for any of us
(25:46):
drivers to get hold of people is to call there.
For me, as a lift driver, all I have is
their driver Help Center call line, which goes to a
foreign call center.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Direct I'm deal with. I'll tell me I feel your pain.
I've dealt with a lot of those foreign Can I
tell you that that if you ask for what is
called then here's a trick with some companies. If you
say I'd like to speak with an onshore representative, they
then will treat someone in the USA.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Yeah, maybe I'll try that next time.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Put it in your back pocket. Now, if they don't
have any on shore representatives and they're dealing with everyone
you know overseas, obviously that doesn't work. Hey, Brian, that
was a great call. Thank you. I just got to
get a couple more, well few more in here before
the hours up Best Alive. It was a good call.
Do me favorite shot listening to my program? Okay, I
really mean that. How old are you are you selling
your young guy?
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Oh yeah, I'm actually twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Well good for you. This is this is the type
of type of work that you like to do. Yes,
good for you. Good for you. Work hard. Thanks, Ryan,
appreciate it very much.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Thank you for having me here.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
You're very welcome. Let me get take some courage when
you're twenty seven years old to pick up the phone
and call a talk show for Attleborough. John, you were
next with Kelly kobb Lemire on Nightside, Right head John?
Speaker 6 (27:05):
All right, Dan, I listened to your show a lot
when I'm out late at night. How are you tonight.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I'm doing great. Nice to make your acquaintance. Have you
called before?
Speaker 6 (27:11):
And no, I no, I don't believe I have.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
We'll give you a round of a clause too, John,
It's good. What's your what's you're taking? What Kelly had
to say?
Speaker 6 (27:22):
Well, I'm driving Uber for about seven weeks, so I'm
relatively new at it, and I like it. I love
it actually because I sit behind a computer all day
doing it work, and I go out and drive four
or five hours a night part time, and it's it's
it's social time for me.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, you talk to the human beings. I get that. Yeah,
you talk to people.
Speaker 6 (27:46):
I get that exactly. So to clarify a couple of
things about what you guys were talking about before the
nine thirty YEWS book, Sure, relative relative to how much
money of the fair that drivers receive, Yes, as far
as Uber goes, I can't speak for Lift, but for Uber,
(28:09):
we get between ninety two and ninety three percent of
what the customer's fair is. And Okay, the way that
I know that is that we can using the app,
when our ride is done, we can actually drill into
we can actually drill into that ride and they give
(28:30):
you a high graph of this is how much you
were paid, and this percentage went to insurance, this percentage
goes to Uber for you know, corporate profit. This percent
went to such and so, and they pick it down
by the percent.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Right something. So you're telling me that, you're telling me
that as an Uber driver today. Uh and this isn't
it because you're a first a Nubia, a new driver.
This is what Uber drivers get if they drilled down.
You're telling me it's ninety two, between ninety two and
ninety three percent. Right.
Speaker 6 (29:06):
It does change a little bit from day to day,
but they tell you when you take the wrine, you
you know you received.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Well, let me let me get Kelly's Let me get
I just wanted to. We got a real difference here.
Let me just get Kelly's quick comments on it. You
don't need to debate it. But Kelly, uh, John is
saying something significantly different than what we talked about before
the news.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
What do you yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
I mean the drivers that I talked to are not
getting that much. You know, like I said, when they
started out, they were getting a higher percentage. Now they're
lucky to get uh you know, maybe thirty percent. Sometimes
they sometimes they've worked all day and they've had two
rides and they've made no money. So you know, are
you relying John on what Uber and lifted telling you,
(29:53):
or do you actually are you able to see from
your app what the passenger paid and what you received?
Speaker 7 (30:01):
No, I am not able to check. We we only
we only get to see what we get paid. But
I've checked with riders. Geez, if you don't mind you
telling me I'm getting paid twenty one dollars and seventy
six dollars twenty one dollars and seventy six cents for
this ride to Providence, just so that I can keep.
Speaker 6 (30:21):
Track, Do you mind telling me how Coober is trying you?
And they'll I've had people tell me, oh, you know,
twenty five dollars or twenty four dollars, twenty six whatever
it is, and it checks out.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
You'll check out, right, John. I appreciated your call. This
is a complicated subject, but I'm past my break and
if I don't get a break, I'm going to be
driving Uber next week.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
Okay, good night.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Thanks John, Please call again. I enjoyed the conversation. Will
we'll take a break. My guest is Kelly kobb Lemire.
She's a group called Master Ivers United. They are against
Question three, which would allow Lyft and Uber drivers to unionize.
Will be back. We're going to try to get everyone
in between now and ten o'clock. We're going to be
talking at ten o'clock about the state of the presidential
(31:07):
race two weeks from right now. You'll be hearing different
broadcasters tell you this particular state went to this candidate,
this particular state went to that candidate. So we are
now within the two week and I thought tonight we'll
check on state of the race and we'll talk with
Spencer Kimball, Emerson College's premier and I mean truly premier polster.
(31:28):
Great guy and a great polster. Back on Nightside after this.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
nights Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Okay, we're getting tight on time. Let's see what we
can do with everybody. We'll try a quick question of
comment Mike and Boston. Mike. Next on Nightside, Dan, how
are you. I'm doing great, Mike, We're tight on time.
Speaker 8 (31:50):
I'll get I'll be quick here.
Speaker 9 (31:52):
I'm a big supporter of unions, but I thought the
whole business model for Uber was flexibility for the workers
when they only work when they want. So how does
that square with you know, uh, you know the ago
debate will be independent contractor versus employee. And then I
had a quick comment on waiting timerect.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Go right ahead, So I mean sorry, no, go ahead, Kelly.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Oh okay. Well, actually, Mike, thanks for the question. I
think that's one of the things that Uber and Left
have been really like pushing, Oh, you need flexibility, flexibility
and benefits. You need to be independent contractors in order
to have flexibility. But actually, flexibility is not tied to
your employment status. You can be at W two worker
(32:40):
and be flexible, you know. So to me, it's a
fear tactic. You know, they're not going to put Uber
and Lyft drivers, as you said, their model their business model.
You can't put them on a schedule, so you know
you are going to be flexible. So the fact that
they're saying, oh, you know, only to maintain independent contrast,
you know, the only way to obtain your UH or
(33:03):
keep your independent contractor status is to be flexible, and
you know, to be an independent contract and not an employee.
It's just because they don't want to pay you. You know,
they don't want to pay you to be an employee.
They don't want to give you the benefits and the
rights that they would pay you if you were an employee.
So it's it's just a fear tactic.
Speaker 8 (33:21):
Yeah, fair point. One quick comment you mentioned about being
paid for waiting time. My niece is a flight attendants
one of the major airlines in the bomb. I was
shocked to find out she doesn't get paid.
Speaker 9 (33:32):
Till the door closes, so forty five.
Speaker 8 (33:35):
Minutes while they're they're passenger, they don't get paid.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
It's amazing, right right.
Speaker 10 (33:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
My brother's an airline pilot, the same thing. They don't.
They don't get any waiting time either. But you know
that's negotiating. They're a union, so they could negotiate that,
but for some reason they they don't.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I got to keep rolling. Got to keep rolling it, Mike,
Thank you much. I want to get to a couple
more calls. Thank you, sir, appreciate it. Jannis and Melrose.
Jane's got to be quick, real quick, go ahead, Jennis.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
One thing I didn't understand reading the ballet question is
why the state is so involved.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I mean, if ups drivers had an agreement with their company.
Massachusetts doesn't have to approve it, does it. And they've
all served the public. I just didn't understand there was
a lot of arbitration with the state, and I didn't, I.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Guess in order for them to they tried to get
it through the legislature. Didn't work, and so therefore they're
trying to They're trying to get the right to unionize
through the.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
CRE and we don't. We don't. We want to do
away with arbitration. So absolutely, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Okay, thanks Jenny, good question, good clarification question. It was
very good. Mary and Lynn. Mary next on nightside, we're
gonna be able to get you in.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Go ahead, Mary, h good night.
Speaker 10 (34:43):
Then, thank you for that opportunity that you've given us
today to open, you know, and talk about this. Look,
I'm gonna talk to you. I'm an uber driver and
I'm gonna talk to you me personally. Look, I just
got home. I left home this morning at six o'clock
in the morning then and I just got back home.
(35:06):
In order for me to make my goal, I have
to work twelve to fourteen hours. Okay, okay, what it is.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Let me ask you this, Mirry, if I can, and
I don't mean to rush you. You've called in light.
I'm so glad you did call in. How do you feel?
How are you going to vote as an Uber driver
on this question in favorable?
Speaker 10 (35:26):
Yes? Yes, we need is an abuse they charging our
allergic to a people and giving us thirty percent and
forty percent. Sometime. I drove fourteen hours Monday through Saturday
and Sunday. I treat myself. I drive a hour in
order for me to make money. I done thirty thousand
(35:49):
ride with Uban, thirty thousand ride with Uber and a right.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I'm flat out of time, but yours was a great call.
Speaker 10 (36:02):
You.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
You express yourself really well in the passion. We can
hear it and feel it. Thank you for what you do,
and please keep listening to Night's Cyber. We'll always be
there for you, okay, and.
Speaker 10 (36:13):
I love to be a Uber driver.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 10 (36:17):
I love you, Mary, I love the people, I love people,
and I love my job.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
All right, Mary, I gotta let you go because I'll
lose my job if I don't, if I don't break
time for the news. Thanks Mary, Doug, Okay, have a
great night. Thank you, Mary. Kelly. We got about thirty
seconds left. I give you a thirty second elevator pitch
why people should vote against question three.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Go ahead, Okay.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
One of the biggest things that we didn't talk about
but Ryan tapped upon is that we want a union.
So we're pro union. We're just we're against this particular
union because this union. Okay. The creators of this ballot
initiative is IDG Independent Drivers Guild. They were set up
in twenty sixteen by Uber. They receive large sums of
(37:05):
funding from both Uber and Lyft and along with SEIU.
So common sense will say a union must be financially
independent of their employer, and this is not the case
here when drivers.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
It's like the end of the ride here, so I
got to stop you. We will talk to someone on
the other side of this issue tomorrow night during the
nine o'clock hours, during the nine o'clock hour, Kelly, I
thank you very much, and we will follow this closely.
Thank you very much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Thank you for having me on. I appreciate the time.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
You're welcome. Here comes the ten o'clock news. This is
Nightside with Dan Rabiack. Right on the other Side'm going
to be talking with Spencer Kimball about the state of
the race. You know what race I'm talking about. He's
a poster for Suffolk University.
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