NightSide Bonus - The Dan Rea Interviews - NightSide With Dan Rea

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Now night Side with Dan Ray, an election night special
on wb Z, Boston's news radio.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good evening, everyone, and welcome on in. My name is
Dan Ray, the host of Nightside, and I have about
eight people tonight that we're going to talk to who
know politics inside and out from different perspectives here in
New England. Going to start off with Jim Brett. He's
the President of the New England Council. Jim Brett, Welcome
back to Nightside, sir. How are you tonight?

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Always a pleasure Dan to be back.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Well, this is a big night. We only have a
few of these during our lifetimes. You know, divide by four. However,
whatever it is you get, if you get four score
years in your lifetime, you get about, realistically twenty of these.
You've seen more than a few presidential elections, final presidential
elections on that first Tuesday after the first Monday in November,

(00:52):
and you're looking at it the perspective of the New
England Council. A lot of people don't understand what the
New England Council is, but you're about to not you personally,
The New England Council is about the year in one
hundred years old. Tell us about it.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Well, that's an historic figure itself, one hundred years old.
We're the oldest regional business organization in the United States. Obviously,
it was found in nineteen twenty five and it was
founded in a little town called Poland Spring in Maine.
And there was the governors and the leading CEOs at
the time who were involved in manufacturing of textile and

(01:26):
shoe and they were saying that we need to find
ways of working together because in nineteen twenty five a
lot of the workers were leaving the New England region,
going down south to the Carolinas, warmer climate, lower taxes,
and they said that we are well situated in our
own individual states. We know the Senators, we know the Congressmen,

(01:47):
they know us, but it's more important that we know
more of the elected officials throughout in New England that
could help us and be our voice in Washington. And
that was really the genesis, saying, if we work together
as a region, even though we're a very small region
of the United States, we're only about five percent of

(02:07):
the nation's population and about thirteen and a half million people,
half of them in one state. But the genesis was,
if we work together Vermont's population is no bigger than
the city of Boston, but they have two United States Senators.
So they said, if we're five percent of the nation's
population and we have twelve percent of the United States

(02:29):
Senate in New England, that's a great asset. But we
have to find ways of keeping them engaged, involved and
working together on New England issues. And it's something that
has developed into a very successful advocacy organization. And what
we do is we are engaged with all the members

(02:51):
of Congress, the twenty one members of Congress and whether
they're Democrats or Republicans today they're Democrats. When I first
started in nineteen ninety six, you know, there's two Senators
in New Hampshire, Republicans, Bob Smith and Judd Gregg, and
new Ginridge was the Speaker of the House. So they
needed someone who could go to Washington and be their voice,

(03:13):
who could work both sides, both sides of the aisle,
and advocate on behalf of New England, whether it be
on higher ed energy tax policy.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
I also assume, Jim, that there must be issues, for example,
fishing issues that whether you're a Democrat or a Republican
on that issue, you want to make sure that whatever
restrictions are imposed on our fishing industry, they're done fairly. Obviously,
you have many regulatory agencies that you have to contend with.

(03:47):
Interesting enough, you talked about the population. I will bet
you that as great as your organization is today, over
time you've lost population and also representation in Congress. I
suspect that back in the day when the New England
Council started, we probably had sixteen or seventeen, maybe even

(04:07):
eighteen members of the House of Representatives, and that figure
has diminished, which means that you.

Speaker 4 (04:16):
Could double that.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
In the nineteen twenties, it was all but thirty members.
Thirty members that we're advocating on behalf of New England
and Washington, and now we have twenty one and every
dessential every ten years when they do resistrict and someone
seems to lose, Rhode Island seems to lose the seat,
Massachusetts seems to lose the seat. That's why it is

(04:37):
so important that the members of the delegation work as
a region. And someone like Ritchie Neil, who's the dean
who's elected nineteen eighty eight to Congress from Springfield, he
has really truly led the effort to in farm and
educate all new members of Congress from New England that
we work together as a region, because when we do that,

(05:00):
we have a lot of clout, and we've had a
lot of successes and in areas such as tax policy
and energy and health care. And that's because people in
other parts of the country marvel at how well coordinated
and cohesive. The New England delegation is both the House
in the Senate, and it's been that way, whether they're

(05:21):
all Democrats, are all Republicans, it's just working together. So
it's a joy for me to work with them because
they understand and strength and unity. We have an awful
lot of clout, and as I say, we've had people
from other parts of the country come to us and say,
we would like to duplicate what you do. We would

(05:42):
love to have a mid Atlantic Council, our South East Council,
but they've been unsuccessful and achieving that. So we're unique
and able to do what we do. And I think
one of the reasons we do as well is that
New England pretty much you know, it's rich so Ox nation,
it's patriots, you know, New England patriots. There are many
people that live in New Hampshire that work in Massachusetts.

(06:03):
Many people in Massachusetts work in New England. In New Hampshire,
many people live in Massachusetts work in Rhode Island. Some
even work in Maine and live here. So we are
a little more cohesive. But I think also we're an
organization that is very unique in this time and era

(06:23):
where there's so much gridlock, so much polarization in Washington.
Our organization is able to access Democrats and Republicans to
sit together and to see if we can find common
ground on issues that would be of importance to New England.
It's not the New England Democratic Council, it's not the

(06:44):
New England Republican Council. It's the New England Council. And
who's the New England Council. It's the community health centers,
it's hospitals, it's colleges, it's the biotech, it's the industries
that you could think of. They're part of the New
England Council. The mission statement to improve the economic conditions
in New England and have a voice at the table

(07:06):
in Washington. And what I'm very proud of is to
be able to say that we don't give money. We don't.
We don't have a pack, we don't give endorsements, we
don't give a grade. And that's why we're able to
get leaders of both parties and.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Jim Whitehouse, Jim, maybe, with a little bit of luck,
Congress can take the New England Council as an example
and as a model and maybe work together in the
Congress that will assemble in January. Jim Brett of the
New England Council, President and CEO, thanks so much for
joining us tonight here on Nightside and a very important

(07:42):
night and we'll have you on some night and spend
some time taking phone calls from listeners.

Speaker 5 (07:47):
Thanks so much, love you, Thanks very much.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
I appreciate Thank you.

Speaker 6 (07:51):
Dan.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
All right, Jim Brett. Back to our other programming here
on Nightside.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Night Side with Dan Ray continues now on WBZ News Radio.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
Welcome back. We are interviewing a number of political leaders
from different perspectives and with different experiences and different emphasize
emphasis with us. Now with State Representative David Lynskey. He's
a Democrat, been in the House Chamber here in Massachusetts
for many many years. Representative. Welcome to Night's Side. Welcome.

(08:23):
How are you. Welcome to wbz's special election coverage. Thank you, Dan.

Speaker 4 (08:27):
It's a big night for America tonight and I'm very
happy to be part of it.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Well delighted you with us. You have been a state
representative for I know Natick, but do you have other
communities in your district as well?

Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yeah, currently I represent all of Natick and half of
the town of Whaleland. I formerly represented Sherburn and Millis too,
but I picked up Whaleland and I'm very happy to
have that too. And I've been in the state legislature
now for twenty five years in Massachusetts and been involved
in in a variety of issues.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
So you have some seniority then, twenty doll.

Speaker 4 (09:08):
Well, one of the things you think, as we're saying,
goes when I first ran that, my slogan was give
a young man a chance, and now it's turned into
there's no substitute for experience.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
No question about that. Perspective always makes us feel that way.
A little bit of age, nothing wrong with that. So look,
one of the things you mentioned was that your district
changes periodically, and of course congressional districts change, and one
of the things that you are very much involved in nationally.
You're a state representative from Massachusetts, but you're involved with
the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee, the DLLCC, and you told

(09:41):
me that the Republicans nationally have been I guess out
maneuvering the Democrats when it comes to controlling state legislatures.
Not so in Massachusetts. Tell us what's going on and
what you and other members of the the DLCC are
trying to do about it.

Speaker 4 (10:00):
Well, so, Dan, I think the reality is is that
because of the dysfunction in Congress for the last many years,
and then also a whole series of Supreme Court decisions
that pushed decisions down to the state level, including quite frankly, abortion,
the importance of state legislatures became magnified immensely, and so

(10:24):
state legislatures now have an enormous impact on everybody's day
to day lives. But the Republicans quite frankly beat us
to the punch about fifteen years ago with a program
to get people elected. Republicans elected the state legislatures, and
what it turned into, quite frankly, was they then controlled

(10:46):
congressional redistricting, because that's generally done by state legislatures out there. Now,
did you know, for example, that way more people in
this country vote for Democratic congress people than Republican congress people,
but that's never reflected because the way the maps have
been drawn. So we in the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee

(11:10):
over the past few years have decided to meet the
Republican challenge and put a lot of emphasis in trying
to get Democratic majorities in state legislatures. So, yeah, my
colleague around the country, Yeah, on.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
That issue, there are some states, some sparsely populated states,
I think maybe South Dakota and Wyoming where they have
two US Senators but only one member of Congress. So
it doesn't make a big difference in states that just
have one member of Congress because there's going to be
really no redistricting unless as a dramatic increase in population, but.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
It makes them a lot difference in a Michigan or Wisconsin,
or New York or North Carolina, you know that really
the swing states. So what happens is is, as we
know from what's going on in the presidential election tonight,
in the swing states, the votes are pretty much split
fifty to fifty. But because of redistricting at both a

(12:10):
state legislature level and the congressional level. The Republicans have
really had majorities in those states in the congressional delegation
and in the state legislature, and so they've done a
great job at it, and we in the Democratic Party
are now trying to match it. And I expect we're
going to have some good news tonight.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Well, it'll be interesting. I know that at some point
later in the week, we'll find out that across the
country the Republicans or the Democrats either picked up a
lost so many state Senate seats or so many state
legislative seats, state representative seats. State I know it's called
the legislatures are a little different in New York. I
know it's the Assembly, if they're not mistaken. But that's

(12:53):
the equition I guess of our House of Representatives. And
do you think that the Democratic Party can in this around? Obviously,
in Massachusetts, the Democratic Party has a super majority in
both the House and Senate, and nothing's going to change
as of tonight. The Republicans are hoping to pick up
a seat here, a seat there, but the Democrats run

(13:14):
Beacon Hill in Massachusetts. But it's not always the same
way in the other forty nine state capitals and that's.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
Really For example, in Pennsylvania right now, the Democrats have
a one seat majority in the in the state House
of Representatives, and they're down one seat in the state Senate.
Up in our neighbors in New Hampshire, that's within three
or four seats in the state legislature and just a

(13:43):
couple of seats in the state Senate. You know that
the changing the majority in these states can really have
a major effect on people's lives, on democracy, on their
right to vote, on the right to control their bodies.
It has enormous impact. Like I said, the Supreme has
pushed these decisions down to the state legislative level.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, there's there's a lot of cases that work their
way up to the Supreme Court to deal with you know,
apportionment and how districts are are constructed, and you'll see
those those those cases percolate up. The other thing which
people need to understand, and maybe you can explain it
better than I that different legislatures around the country are

(14:27):
quite different. Meaning Massachusetts, for the most part, members of
our legislature, that's your primary career. You're a legislative, you know,
elected official. Whereas in New Hampshire, I think that people, it's.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
Much more and fifty dollars a year, yea, right.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
And no one's going to be able to live even
in New Hampshire on one hundred and fifty dollars a year.

Speaker 7 (14:50):
So this.

Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah, yeah, so very different situation. The reality is, when
you have a situation like that, it gives governor a
lot more power when you have a very part time,
inexperienced legislature with no staff and no expertise. That that's
what happens. It hands it hands the control away from

(15:13):
the people, away from the legislature into the hands of
the governor.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
But doesn't it make that a little easier for your organization,
this Legislative Campaign Committee Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee to go
into a state like New Hampshire and and find good
candidates who you would approve of and and help them
get elected. Because it's it's it's an easier lift, I guess,

(15:43):
is what I'm saying, to turn to flip a state
legislature like New Hampshire than it would be for the
Republicans to in any way, shape or form flip a
more professional legislature like Massachusetts or exactly say.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
That, right, we're putting a lot of resources into New
Hampshire today obviously, and we've been doing it for months,
but we're also trying to get control of state legislatures
this session in Minnesota, in Arizona, and then increase some
seats where we're in the minority and trying to be

(16:20):
able to at least sustain a vetol. North Carolina as
an example of that. They have a democratic governor, they
just elected another democratic governor tonight, but the legislature down
there is overwhelmingly Republican, and when the governor veto's something
in North Carolina, there aren't enough Democratic votes to sustain

(16:40):
is VETOL. So there the Republican super majority in both
the House and the Senate are really able to control THEMS.
So we're trying to pick up some seats in North
Carolina to give that governor a little help down there.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
And what this shows is that so many of the
states in America, at the legislative level and at the
state level are just very different. They're pp dishes of
democracy different, but all of them have impact. And again,
your group, if people want to check it out as
the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee, or if they're more interested,

(17:17):
they could get in test with your office at the
State House. Representative David. Great to have you on. Get
you on some night and maybe we'll get some callers
involved as well. But this was a pretty interesting Pacidis
lesson tonight. Thanks so much, Representative.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
Thank you, Dan, have a good evening and made democracy
prevail tonight.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
I think it will, There's no question in my mind,
and the show will prevail and continue right after this
quick break right here on WBZ Boston's News Radio.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Nike Side with Dan Ray continues now on WBZ News Radio.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Welcome back. We are interviewing a number of political leaders
from different perspectives and with different experiences and different emphasize
emphasis with us now is State Representative David Lynskey. He's
a Democrat, been in the House Chamber here in Massachusetts
for many, many years. Representative, welcome to Night's side. Welcome.

(18:12):
How are you welcome to wbz's special election coverage.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
Thank you, Dan. It's a big night for America tonight
and I'm very happy to be part of it.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Well delighted you with us. You have been a state
representative for I know, Natick, but do you have other
communities in your in your district as well? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (18:31):
Currently I represent all of Natick and half of the
town of Whiteland. I formerly represented Sherbert and Millis too,
but I picked up Whaleland and I'm very happy to
have that too. And I've been in the state legislature
now for twenty five years in Massachusetts and been involved
in a variety of issues, and I'm awesome now you have.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Some seniority then for twenty five do we well?

Speaker 4 (18:57):
One of the things you think, as we're saying, goes
when I first ran that, my slogan was give a
young man a chance, and now it's turned into there's
no substitute for experience.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
No question about that. Perspective always makes us feel that way,
a little bit of age, nothing wrong with that. So look,
one of the things you mentioned was that your district
changes periodically, and of course congressional districts change. And one
of the things that you are very much involved in nationally.
You're a state representative from Massachusetts, but you're involved with
the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee, the DLLCC. And you told

(19:30):
me that the Republicans nationally have been I guess, out
maneuvering the Democrats when it comes to controlling state legislatures,
not so in Massachusetts, tell us what's going on and
what you and other members of the DLCC are trying
to do about it.

Speaker 8 (19:49):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (19:49):
So, Dan, I think the reality is is that because
of the dysfunction in Congress for the last many years,
and then also a whole series of Supreme Court decisions
that pushed decisions down to the state level, including quite frankly, abortion,
the importance of state legislatures became magnified immensely, and so

(20:13):
state legislatures now have an enormous impact on everybody's day
to day lives. But the Republicans quite frankly beat us
to the punch about fifteen years ago with a program
to get people elected. Republicans elected the state legislatures, and
what it turned into, quite frankly, was they then controlled

(20:35):
congressional redistricting because that's generally done by state legislators out there. Now,
did you know, for example, that way more people in
this country vote for Democratic congress people than Republican congress people,
But that's never reflected because the way the maps have
been drawn. So we in the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee

(20:59):
over the past few years, have decided to meet the
Republican challenge and put a lot of emphasis in trying
to get Democratic majorities in state legislatures. So to issue, yeah,
my colleagues around the country, Yeah, on that issue.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
There are some states, some sparsely populated states, I think
maybe South Dakota and Wyoming where they have two US
Senators but only one member of Congress. So it doesn't
make a big difference in states that just have one
member of Congress because there's going to be really no
redistricting unless as a dramatic increase in population, but it.

Speaker 4 (21:38):
Makes them an difference in a Michigan or Wisconsin, or
New York or North Carolina, you know that really the
swing states. So what happens is is, as we know
from what's going on in the in the presidential election tonight,
in the swing states, the votes are pretty much split
fifty to fifty. But because of redistricting and both a

(21:59):
state level and the congressional level, the Republicans have really
had majorities in those states in the congressional delegation and
the state legislature. And so they've done a great job
at it, and we in the Democratic Party are now
trying to match it. And I expect we're going to
have some good news tonight.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Well, it'll be interesting. I know that at some point
later in the week we'll find out that across the
country the Republicans or the Democrats either picked up a
lost so many state Senate seats or so many state
legislative seats, state representative seats. State I know it's called
the legislatures are a little different in New York. I
know it's the Assembly, if they're not mistaken, But that's

(22:41):
the equivalent, I guess of our House of Representatives. And
do you think that the Democratic Party can turn this around? Obviously,
in Massachusetts, the Democratic Party has a super majority in
both the House and Senate and nothing's going to change
as of tonight. The Republicans are hoping to pick up
a seat here, a seat there, But the Democrats run

(23:03):
Beacon Hill in Massachusetts. But it's not always the same
way in the other forty nine state capitals. And that's
really so.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
For example, in Pennsylvania right now, the Democrats have a
one seat majority in the in the state House of Representatives,
and they're down one seat in the state Senate. Up
in our neighbors in New Hampshire. That's within three or
four seats in the state legislature and just a couple

(23:32):
of seats in the state Senate, you know that they
changing the majority in these states can really have a
major effect on people's lives, on democracy, on their right
to vote, on the right to control their bodies. It
has enormous impact. Like I said, the Supreme Court has
pushed these decisions down to the state legislative level.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yea, there's a lot of cases that work their way
up to the Supreme Court to deal with, you know,
apportionment and how districts are are constructed, and you'll see
those those those cases percolate up. The other thing which
people need to understand and maybe you can explain it
better than I that different legislatures around the country are

(24:16):
quite different, meaning Massachusetts, for the most part, members of
our legislature, that's your primary career. You're a legislator, you know,
elected official. Whereas in New Hampshire, I think that people
it's much more one and.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
Fifty dollars a year. Yeah, right, and no one's going to.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Be able to live even in New Hampshire on one
hundred and fifty dollars a year, so.

Speaker 4 (24:40):
This part them too, yeah, yeah, so very different situation.
The reality is is when you have a situation like that,
it gives the governor a lot more power when you
have a very part time, inexperienced legislature with no staff
and no expertise. That that's what happens. It hands it

(25:00):
hands the control away from the people, away from the legislature,
into the hands of the governor.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
But doesn't it make that a little easier for your organization,
this Legislative Campaign Committee Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee to go
into a state like New Hampshire and find good candidates
who you would approve of and and help them get
elected because it's it's it's an easier lift, I guess,

(25:32):
is what I'm saying, to turn to flip a state
legislature like New Hampshire than it would be for the
Republicans to in any way, shape orform flip a more
professional legislature like Massachusetts or.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
That.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
Right, we're putting a lot of resources into New Hampshire today, obviously,
and we've been doing it for months. But we're also
trying to get control of state legislatures this session in Minnesota,
in Arizona and then increase some seats where we're in
the minority, and trying to be able to at least

(26:10):
sustain a veto. North Carolina is an example of that.
They have a democratic governor, they just elected another democratic
governor tonight, but the legislature down there is overwhelmingly Republican,
and when the governor veto's something in North Carolina, there
aren't enough Democratic votes to sustain is veto. So there

(26:31):
the Republican supermajority in both the House and the Senate
are really able to control them. So we're trying to
pick up some seats in North Carolina to give that
governor a little help down there.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
And what this shows is that so many of the
states in America, and at the legislative level and at
the state level are just very different, the PP dishes
of democracy different, but all of them have impact. Again,
your group, if people want to check it out as
the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee, or if they're more interested,

(27:06):
they could get in test with your office at the
State House. Representative David, great to have you on. Get
you on some night and maybe we'll get some callers
involved as well. But this was a pretty interesting lesson tonight.
Thanks so much, Representative.

Speaker 4 (27:20):
Thank you Dan, have a good evening and made democracy
prevail tonight.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
I think it will. There's no question in my mind,
and the show will prevail and continue right after this
quick break right here on WBZ Boston's news radio.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Night Side with Dan Ray, Election night in America tell
you BZ Boston's News Radio.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Well back at you here on a very important night.
My name is Dan Ray, the host of Nightside. Have
the honor tonight to talk to several guests who are
people who are well steeped in the tradition of Massachusetts politics,
and none more steep than my next guest, Former Congressman
Mike Cappel. Mike Capaano, Welcome back to Night's Side. Always

(28:03):
good to have you on, particularly on an election night.

Speaker 5 (28:07):
I love talking to you, Dan, So on a night like.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Tonight, You've been through what uh ten or so elections
to Congress, you were the mayor of Somerville. Do the
juices still float? Does the adrenaline flow as you're watching this?
Are you, like you know the former guy that you
know played in the NFL or the major leagues who
still gets excited about watching NFL on Sunday or a
Major League Baseball at a World Series in playoff.

Speaker 5 (28:32):
Time significantly less than you might think. I mean, really,
you're in the ring so long you kind of get tired.
And I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm desperately interested
in the outcome of this election, but the juices are
really interested in the outcome, not so much the game
so much anymore.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Okay, Now, I know that you were never, in any way,
shape or form a big fan of Donald Trump. Can
you explain to me from your perspective, how after all
that he has been through that he's still standing. I mean,
this is a guy, you know, Ben impeached, Ben indicted,

(29:10):
been shot at all of.

Speaker 5 (29:11):
This most everybody around.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah. Absolutely. I don't know if he's personally insulted you
or not. But I've never had the honor of having
him on my show, and I've always been convinced that
he can win the Republican nomination if he wanted it.
But I don't know that he can win tonight, And
of course.

Speaker 5 (29:35):
We'll know that he's the only Republican. I think he's
the only Republican we can beat at this point in time.
I mean, the Democratic label is a little bit damage
at the moment on a national scale, but I think
Donald Trump himself has significantly damaged on a national sale.
So we'll see. It's it's very It's gonna be an
interesting election. I think I don't know too many people

(29:57):
who are terribly excited to vote for somebody. A lot
of people I know a voting against somebody.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah, I said, a friend of mine looked for my
predictions today, and I simply paraphrased Rick Patino and sent
back a text that said, Jack Kennedy and Ronald Reagan
are not through it, not walking through that door anytime soon.
Uh and and you long for the day of that.
How much of a mistake. And it has to have

(30:25):
been a tremendous mistake for for former President Trump not
to invite Nicky Haley out on to trail with him.

Speaker 5 (30:36):
I mean, really, I don't get it. It's almost political malepractice,
you know, Like, I know she's said some tough things
about him. But in publical business, you're supposed to have
a thick skin. You're supposed to understand that when the
campaign's out there, it's like it's like a contest on
a football field. Nobody goes out there and gives half
half a loaf. They give everything they got, including against

(30:59):
their best friend. And once the game is over, you
shake hands, move on, you know, and get on the
maybe on the same team next year. But all that
being said, I couldn't agree with some more. It's a
huge mistake not to have reached out to her. Don't
get me wrong, He's a good Democrat. I'm glad he
made that mistake.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
Yeah, and there were others. I don't think that he
campaigned with DeSantis or Rubio or many others. It almost
it's almost seems to me that given a choice between
winning with the help of say Nikki Haley, or realizing

(31:36):
that he would lose, that he almost would prefer to
lose then to have to share any credit for a win.
And that to me is I'd like to talk to
some psychologists a psychiatrist about that decision who might have
a minor in two.

Speaker 5 (31:54):
He governed that way as well. He didn't govern He
governed by browbeating the Republican friends and totally ignoring Democrats.
You know that he did that for four years. And
that's one of the reasons you asked. In my opinion,
he didn't show any of the business acumen of trying
to work with people at all, other than people who

(32:15):
agree with him, and I don't think there's a successful
businessman in the world who hasn't learned how to work
with other.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
People, including competitors.

Speaker 5 (32:25):
Especially competitors. Now me, you compete when you compete, but
then you try to get on the same side if
you can. It's a game of addition, just like life.
It's not a game of division.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
It just isn't that he assuming that he were to
win tonight, and I'm not making that assumption. But if
he were to win tonight, do you think he will
govern any differently in a second term?

Speaker 5 (32:46):
No, I think I personally think it will be worse.
I think he will have vindicated himself. Everything I have said,
everything I have ever done, has now been vindicated, so
I will do whatever I want to do. I think
it will be worse than the first two.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
It's it's it's it's an interesting night. It's a fascinating night.
I hope that when this is over, whoever wins, everyone
at least gives them a chance to do the right thing,
even if in the case of Donald Trump it's probably
not likely. But I hope that that whoever wins, you

(33:23):
and I both can say, well, that person is our
president until they start to stir up back right.

Speaker 5 (33:29):
From your lives to gazias. I totally agree. And you know,
it's just the country is too divided. It's too there's
too much animosity out there. And again, I've been in
lots of street fights politically, and you know, fine, But
I've also made friends as we go along, some people
that I'm friendly with today that I never would have
thought I was friendly with thirty years ago. Why because

(33:51):
things change, Different issues come up, You work together and
you realize, okay, they're not so bad, and maybe I
can be with them the next time. It's again, it's life,
and I just I hope you're one hundred percent right.
I pray to God you are. I think the country
really needs it.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
You know, in another time and in another place, you
were considered sort of the Democratic firebrand. There were some
comments that you and I don't have to recall that
you made at rallies, which some of the Democrats will say, hey,
can you keep it down a little bit, But today
you would be considered a moderate Democrat within the context

(34:28):
of the National Democratic Party. How tough is that.

Speaker 5 (34:34):
It's again, I think it's one of the reasons the
Democratic Party is struggling a little bit. I don't think
we should be, but I think we are because of
things like that. We have our radicals in the party
as well. Many of them are activists in the party,
just like the Republican Party. And there are a lot
of moderate regular people just going ahead on a day
to day basis, try to make a living, try to

(34:55):
make ends beat and they want to be on the
democratic side. But they look around, they see some of
the things that they just don't want to hear about.
You know. They don't want to be told, you know,
what kind of a neighborhood they have to live in.
They don't want to be told they have to be
a needle exchange or whatever it might be next to
their own house, you know, and they don't want to
hear it, so that you know. And my problem is

(35:17):
that there are too many politicians who refuse to then
go out and actually solicit and listen to the opinions
of others. There's always some issues where a politician is
going to have to say, look, I love and respect
my constituents, but on this issue, it's a moral issue
to me, I have to do X. But we're supposed
to represent the people that we that elect us, and

(35:38):
sometimes that means you do things that maybe you don't
personally share one hundred percent, but that's what the job is.
At least I think that's what the job is.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
Well, you did the job for a long time, and
you did really well, and you're a Democrat that certainly
had the respect at the time, and you still have
the respect and you are always welcome here at Nightside.
Mike Capawano, I want you to get back in the game. Thanks,
thanks so much, my friend. Okay, we will talk again
and we'll talk to Thank you, Mike, say aha to
Bobra for me. We have Elizabeth Warren would be speaking

(36:09):
pretty soon, so stay with us, and we have more
guests coming up and more program on this special election
Night twenty twenty four coverage.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Our Election Night coverage continues now with Night Side with
Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Welcome back, everyone. We're now speaking with the chair of
the Massachusetts Republican Party, Amy Connavalley. Amy, welcome to Nightside.
Welcome back to Night's Side. I believe that you're down
in the southeast corner of the Commonwealth tonight at a
number of Republican events one of the things that I
think you're most concerned about. I don't think you thought

(36:50):
Donald Trump would carry Massachusetts or John Deaton would unseat
Elizabeth Warren. But how are you doing at the legislative
level here in Massachusetts tonight?

Speaker 6 (37:00):
Dan, thanks very much for having me back on the show.
I am coming to you this evening from Taunton, Math.
I'm here at the Kelly Duner uh celebration. They are
counting votes as Kelly is running for state Senate in
an open seat. She is currently up, but the still

(37:21):
awaiting additional votes to be cast.

Speaker 9 (37:23):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (37:24):
So we've not yet called the called the race, but
this would be a pickup for Republicans.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (37:29):
It's it's an open Kelly is able to witness.

Speaker 5 (37:32):
Yes, open, it's what the it's.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
What they call an open seat because the longtime Democratic
incumbent down there, Mark Pachico, I guess, had decided that
he would he would retire from from office. What a
what percentage of the votes do you have at this point,
and just be curious how how it looks. I know
you don't want to claim victory ahead of time, but
she was a strong candidate and I'd be interested as

(37:57):
to what what the numbers are are looking like, either
on a percentage basis or on a raw basis if
you had had them available.

Speaker 6 (38:04):
So we're still waiting on a couple of towns. But
right now in Taunton, which is the city, Kelly is
is up, which is typically a good good sign for Republicans.
So again we're we're still waiting on a couple of
outside towns to come in. But and where where them
in some of the other towns. But but she's up

(38:25):
right now in Taunton, So it's a great sign.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Okay. So right now there are forty state senators here
in Massachusetts, and the Republicans only represent four for for
members of the of the Senate. Uh, if things break
well for you tonight, that's one seat you might pick up.
Are there any other seats that are are available for

(38:49):
to increase your your your number of senators? I mean
it's a it's a it's a small, a hardy group,
but a small group nonetheless that I'm sure you'd like
to add to it.

Speaker 6 (38:59):
Well, everyone makes a difference, as we saw by the
the addition of Peter Durant last year in a special election.
Even having just one more state Senator as a Republican
who's willing to speak up and and voice objections to
some of the policies that that are being passed through
Beacon Hill without a lot of debate or dialogue makes

(39:21):
a difference. So did Another seat we're looking at this
evening is state represented Matt Moore Torri who is running
for State Senate. That race is currently neck and neck.
It's much too early to call, really, I think that
one could be a nail bier, you know, rate down
to the to the wire. A lot of money has
been spent in that race. So Matt again, Matt gave

(39:44):
up his state rep seat to run for State Senate
and that's in the Plymouth area.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Okay, how are you doing again? I know that part
of the problem that the party has had for a
long time, well predated You're very active involvement, is that many, many,
many members of the legislature, of the Democratic legislature were
not even challenged. Do you have any possibility of increasing
You have but twenty five members of the one hundred

(40:11):
and sixty member House Chamber. Do you have any shot
to increasing that group number?

Speaker 6 (40:17):
We do, so, we have some challengers running and again
some other seats, open seats in the in the state house,
state representatives, some open seats that were previously held by Democrats.
So where we have competitive Republicans running, it is typically
easier for Republicans, particularly in a presidential election year, to

(40:38):
gain seats in when the Democrat is not running for
re election and we are. We're a party that's coming
off losses two years ago, so we really wanted to
set our sites this this cycle on winnable races, which
is what I think we've done. So we have some
strong candidates running in state rep seats, in some open

(41:00):
seats too. So for example, we have Jesse Brown and
Plymouth running, Ken Sweezey and Pembroke running Christopher Thrasher, which
is an interesting race. He's running in Westport. That race
is actually five candidates, so you have, of course the Republican,
the Democrat, and three other political parties represented on the ballot,

(41:24):
and that's an open seat. And Chris got on actually
as a writing candidate, so it would be really interesting
and if he could win that seat, and we think
he has a real chance of doing that.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
So let's let's talk about your job. Your job is
to revitalize a party, which has been very dormant. Frankly,
you've done well at the gubernatorial level. How are you
getting people either to become Republican registers Republicans or actually
you step up and say, hey, I'll run for city

(41:57):
council or I'm going to run for state rep. Or
I'm going to run for You know, It's one thing
John Deaton to come in and try to take out
Elizabeth Warren. Obviously he was not successful tonight. And Donald
Trump at the head of the ticket is not going
to have any coattails in Massachusetts whatsoever. How tough is
it to get new members into a party that is

(42:17):
such a minority party in a state like Massachusetts. Now
you have a tough task in front of you.

Speaker 6 (42:22):
Yeah, So I would say, you know, this year, starting
last year was a little more difficult than this year.
I think people saw some of the failures on Beacon
Hill as a result of the policies like the migrant crisis,
of billion dollars being spent, little policy changes being made,
and those policies really starting to impact kind of everyday

(42:44):
residents of the Commonwealth in their in their schools and
their cities and police and fire protection, and you know
some of them this policy is like protection of victims
over criminals, and so I do think we saw a
real change in the mindset of residents in the Commonwealth
this year, and we saw a number of Republican a

(43:07):
number of our state rep candidates running as writ ins
who really felt that they needed to step up and
make a difference. So I think we're going to see
that continue into next year, and I think we'll see
really a flood of Republican candidates, much more so than
we saw this cycle headed into the twenty twenty sixth election.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
I want you to know that I know you're watching
the competitive races very closely, but I also want you
to know that the early returns on some of the
ballot questions I think will please you when you think
about how people think about issues. The effort to authorize
the state auditor to audit the legislature again, it's only
about fifteen percent of the vote, but is leading by

(43:52):
quite a bit, seventy two percent to twenty eight percent.
The question about psychedelicsubstances looks to be very tight. Also,
the increasing minimum wage for tipped employees that does not
that's not doing well either. It's losing about two to one,
so on many of the ballot issues people of voting,

(44:16):
I think in line with the philosophy of the Republican Party.

Speaker 6 (44:19):
Ironically, that's right, yes, and so the party did take
a position on the ballot questions. We were we did
join with the auditor on question one in favor of that,
and you know, we think there are common sense issues
of transparency and accountability for taxpayer dollars and the commonwealth.
And we were opposed to the remainder of the questions,

(44:40):
in particular, most active on question five on on the
tipped employees, because we heard from many of our family
restaurants and workers at those restaurants that they, in fact
were not in favor of this ballot initiative that really
kind of came out of California.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
It sure did, it, Sure did. Amy Connor Valley, thank
you so much, and thank you thanks for attempting to
make Massachusetts more of a two party state than it
has been before your arrival. You're working hard at it,
and my hat's off to you and a best of
luck tonight for the balance of the evening. Thanks Amy,
appreciate it very much.

Speaker 6 (45:12):
Thank you, Dan, and to all your listeners, Thank.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
You, you're welcome. When we come back during the ten o'clalker,
I'll be talking with Congressman Seth Moulton a little after
ten to fifteen, the Democrat from the North Shore. And
then at ten forty five tonight we'll talk with New
Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu, who's celebrating, ironically his fiftieth birthday.
So we have Tom O'Neil speak, the son of former
Speaker Tom O'Neil, coming up, as well as Polster Spencer Kimball.

(45:37):
Stay with WBZ News Radio throughout the night.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Now Night's Side with Dan Ray, an election night special
on WBZ, Boston's news radio.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
This is Dan Ray, and this is twenty twenty four.
We won't have another one of these nights for four years.
That's what makes the night special with me. Also someone
who makes the night special Congress and Seth Moulton here
from Massachusetts Congress and Moulton represents the the sixth Congressional
district up in the northeast corner of the state. Congress

(46:10):
and Milton welcome back to Night Side.

Speaker 8 (46:13):
Daniel, very kind, it's great to be back with you.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Well, I'm sure you've had a pretty easy dice because you,
along with for the other members of the delegation, are
uncontested and you now have been elected to Congress. This
will start your sixth term. Time flies when you're having fun. Congressman,
I would say.

Speaker 8 (46:32):
Well, time does fly, and it's not always fun, but
it does feel important right now with everything.

Speaker 9 (46:38):
Ata No, but it's honest with me, Dan, It's the
question I get a lot. It's like, seth, why do
you put up with this? How do you keep doing this?
How do you stay sane? I mean, this is my friends,
you know, asking these questions and my family, and I
get it.

Speaker 8 (46:55):
I get the concern, but actually the craziness makes it
feel to me like, you know, now more than ever,
try to try to keep some sane heads in Washington.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
Maybe this would make you feel better. But good friends
of mine will ask me the same thing about my job.
They'll say, not put up with that anyway, deal yours
is a much more important job than mine. Let's talk
about what's going on across the country tonight. I'm watching CNN.
I'm watching a little bit of Fox, uh, and it
looks to me like this RACI is indeed going to
be as tight as the pollsters predicted. So far, it

(47:29):
seems to be following a script and at some point,
obviously there's going to be a break point here. It
looks like a tennis match that's going five sets. What
is your sense as you watch this tonight from you know,
from from home?

Speaker 8 (47:44):
That's my sense exactly as well. And I've been on
the ground at swing states. It's felt really close, felt
really close. I was down in Arizona, it was down Pennsylvania.
You know, It's it's felt very close over the last
several weeks. And I don't think we're going to know
the results tonight. I mean we might, we might wake
up in the morning and know the results, but there's

(48:04):
a really good chance that we won't actually know the
final results for a few days. We'll just have to see.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Is that because of the slow count that is expected
in Pennsylvania, each state does they count a little differently,
And because Pennsylvania is not only close, but it's also
very meticulously accounted as that a fair assessment.

Speaker 8 (48:24):
That's right, And there are just different procedures for when
mail in votes are counted. For example, some are not
even opened until election day, and so it takes a
long time to go through them. Other states count them
in advance. You know, these are state by state election laws,
and so it depends. I mean, I remember Arizona took
a while to get called last time. Maybe it won't

(48:46):
be as close this time. You know, we don't know,
but I just I think people need to be prepared
for this act that this could drag out. And what
often happens is sometimes the late votes that come in
are in different direction. I mean, I remember in my
first race, all the small towns, places like West Newbury

(49:06):
where I think that was the first town to call in. Uh,
they counted their votes pretty quickly. It took a while
for big cities like Lynn, uh to get their votes in.
And you know, Lynn could completely change the election for me.
So uh, this is this is something that that you
get used to. But I'll tell you, Dan, after after

(49:28):
speaking with you, I'm going to bed.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Well, I appreciate you staying up late. So I just
got to ask a couple other questions. One, I'm sure
you're monitoring this around the country. The Senate looks like
it's going to flip to the Republicans because of Montana
and West Virginia. Maybe Ohio the House could flip back
to the Democrats. Do you get a sense as to
what's going on? I mean this this, you know, four

(49:52):
hundred and thirty five, four hundred and thirty eight races
around the country. I'm sure you can't put your well,
you can't take the pulse in all of them. But
what sort of a chance do the Democrats have of
getting at least a House of Representatives back tonight to
balance off whatever? I think?

Speaker 8 (50:08):
Yeah, no, I think it's a good chance. But I
think you've summarized it well, which is that we've known
for frankly, for years now that this was going to
be a tough year for Democrats in the Senate, just
based on the races that they were up for re election.
And you know, a lot a lot of people have
been saying for a while, uh that they thought Democrats

(50:30):
have the House in the bag. I've never said that.
I've always said I think the House will be closed.
Let's not forget the Republicans are ahead right now in
the House. They have control of the majority right now,
so you know, we have to flip that. And on
top of that, when you just look at how jerry
mandering something that you know originated here in Massachusetts, but

(50:51):
screwing up elections across the country ever since. You know
that that the current map, the current gerrymandered map across
the country does favor Republicans. So there are a couple
of things working against Democrats here. You know, I think
insiders know that the Republican Congress in the House has

(51:12):
been a disaster under Speaker Johnson. They can't seem to
get anything done, can't get out of their own way,
didn't even have a speaker for three weeks, the first
time in American history that that's happened. But you know,
these races are this has decided race by race right
across the country, and people aren't always voting on just
how you know a Republican speaker does. They're just looking
at the candidates that are going to represent them. And

(51:35):
I think when you go race by race, it's pretty close.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
To two final questions. One, if it goes against your
party tonight, either at the House level or at the
presidential level, is it time for a shake up of
leadership in the in the Democratic Party and specifically within
within Congress. Has this been an an experiment that maybe

(52:04):
the American people were not quite ready for I'm not
talking about us, the Harris campaign, and I'm talking about
the last four years of Democratic leadership.

Speaker 8 (52:13):
Well, I think the question is what a shake up
looks like because I've always been one calling for, you know,
new generation of leadership, new ideas.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
Asking the question is why I'm asking the.

Speaker 8 (52:21):
Questions right, appealing to a broader, uh swath of Americans. Right,
we want to be the majority party. We've got to
get a majority of voters on our side. That should
be pretty obvious. But I think that there will be
some real time to to step down and say, Okay,
what exactly does that look like? Because you know, we
did have a generational change going from Biden to Harris.

(52:43):
I was the third in the House, in the whole
Congress actually House or Senate to come out and say
that needed to happen.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Now.

Speaker 8 (52:51):
On the on the other hand, it doesn't. I also advocated,
UH for Harris breaking away more from Biden. I love Biden,
she loves Biden. She's a great she was a great
loyal vice president. But I think one thing she could
have done differently in this campaign is said, here's where
I'm going to be different than the president. You know,
I'm going to handle immigration differently, or I'm going to

(53:13):
handle the economy differently. I think she should have been
willing to will to break with the past a bit
more we have.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
She was asked that question, She was asked that question
point blank, and she just didn't have an answer.

Speaker 8 (53:27):
I was shocked by that. Yeah, I think that I
think she'd be had goo ahead.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Well, I'm going to say that's a tough question for
you on this one. We'll talk about a greater, greater depth.
But I just want to no matter who wins or
how this all shakes out, we need to come together
as a country. And and I know that you share
that thought with me. But just a few final comments
on the need for us to get together as Americans

(53:54):
and to put this this this divide, this this really
horrible divide behind us.

Speaker 8 (54:00):
We do need to come together. And the level of
just sheer vitriol, the name calling, the baseless disinformation, the
attacks on our democracy itself, you know, saying that elections
are rigged, claiming that Trump won the last election when

(54:20):
he clearly did not, just making up facts and whatnot,
that has got to end because that undermines the principles
of our democracy.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
You know what, Congress, I hate to do this here,
but I agree with you totally on that, and unfortunately
should have asked you such a technical question because we're
flat out of time. But I want to have you
back and let's let's explore this a greater length on
another evening, if that's okay with you, because I think
it's important to discuss Seth Moulton, thank you so much
for joining us tonight. Thank you for having me very much.
We'll talk so him. We will be back with more

(54:53):
of our special election coverage here on Nightside. We'll be
talking with Governor Chris Sanunho of New Hampshire in the
next half hour.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Night Side with Dan Ray continues now on WBZ News Radio.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
Welcome back everyone. We had delighted to be joined by
the Governor of the great state of New Hampshire, my
my personal favorite, governor, Governor Chris Sonunu and Governor Sonunu.
I want to wish you a happy birthday today.

Speaker 10 (55:20):
Happy birthday, Nah, who cares.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Yeah, we're we're not going to put the number on it,
but this is a big one as I understand it.

Speaker 10 (55:27):
Okay, it's a big one. It's a big one. But
it's really about a look at at the end of
the day, this is a great night, great election in
New Hampshire. It's all I really cared about. So the
dust will settle in a few in a few days
and I'll be like, oh crap, I have to buy
reading glasses or something like that. But now I'm just celebrating, trying.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Yeah. Remember you can go to CDs and Walgreens and
they're like twenty bucks seam just you could lose them
and everything. Look, tell us about the governmentace.

Speaker 10 (55:54):
Up there money. I have to save the money for
the ozembic.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
You were all in on this race. I thought that
the commercials that you did for Kelly Aod probably won
her the election. You're not going to say that, but
I'll say that, what was the margin of up there tonight?
And what do you expect the margin to be?

Speaker 10 (56:16):
I think it's going to end up being four or
five at least. It's definitely bigger. I won in twenty
sixteen and then the last open race by two points
and that was like a landslide. So Kelly definitely outdid
me in a lot of towns, which was just great
to see and more importantly let me tell you how
crazy it is because some did not do well up here, right,
He didn't invest any money, he didn't invest any time.
So to have an open race for governor that then

(56:37):
outpaces the presidential ticket by ten points, that's incredible. I mean,
it's really incredible that she was able to pull off
such a strong win, and just at the testament to
how she ran the message she ran. She didn't talk
about things that the party wanted or she wanted. She
talked about things that the voters wanted. And that's a
huge fundamental difference between her and her opponent. Her opponent

(56:58):
just kind of ran this big, nive, anti party message
all on on abortion. Reproductive important issue, fine, but not
an issue for us here, not a top priority in here.
It's not really a problem in New Hampshire. So it
was a hugely flawed UH strategy on their part. But
you know, at the end of the day, Telly was
just a not just a better candidate, but a better

(57:18):
connector to the people on the ground.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Again, I want to come back. It was a spot
that you did which I know you pretty well, and
I thought, you know you you connected. You looked in
that camera and you kind of smile the people and
said the new Hampshire Way and it connected. I do
not understand by the way the ad that she did
with her husband. I thought that was embarrassing, but that's

(57:42):
but I guess you that.

Speaker 10 (57:44):
You know, people love that ad. It's the number one
respond to that. Yeah, people love. People thought it was normal.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
I don't know.

Speaker 10 (57:49):
People thought it was normal and silly enough. So I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
But talked about her snoring, it was what what is
he going to say next? It was like terrifying, let's
talk about the national race. I am surprised to see
where this seems to be trending tonight. What is your
take on this?

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (58:12):
No, I mean, look, I've always thought, I really do
believe in the last month, especially that Trump was going
to win. I think this is what's going to happen.
I've said it for a while and maybe I'm right,
Maven wrong, but I think Trump is going to do
better than everybody thought. It's going to be close. I
don't I think he's going to declare victory. I don't
think Kamala is going to concede. I think you're going
to have recounts for a couple of days and you know,

(58:33):
getting these last townsend votes in Pennsylvania, wisconsinin But at
the end of the day, whether it's a couple of
days from now or a week from now, I think
that the Harris campaign is going to have to fold
it up.

Speaker 4 (58:44):
And it's not.

Speaker 10 (58:45):
And they kept looking at polls. The difference is it's
not the polls, it's the non poll data, it's the
early ballots. It's the lead the Democrats thought they would
have in the early voting states that they just didn't have.
It's the fact that Trump is going to get This
guy's going to get a bigger vote for a presidential
candidate than ever before from Latinos in African Americans. Right,

(59:06):
So he's going to be the most popular presidential Republican
presidential candidate for Latino and African American voters in history.
That's hard to overcome. And so there's all these kind
of things that aren't spoken about in the general media.
They just look at these big national poll numbers. But
on the ground, this is where it is. And Trump
voters tend to keep everything close to the vest that
we always know that they come out of the woodwork

(59:27):
at the last minute. The Democrat message nationally has been
you better vote for Kamala or else you don't believe
in democracy. It's like a shaming type thing they were doing.
That's not a way to earn people's trust. And so
what that drives is a false narrative on the polls.
People say, yeah, yeah, I'm going to vote for Kamlay,
just stop yelling at me. But at the end of
the day, they're going to vote for what they think

(59:48):
is in the best in their family's interests. And they
might not like Trump, they might not like his personality,
but they want a fundamental change in administration and culture
down in DC.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Well, I think you and I are pretty close philosophically,
and I think in terms of what we feel about
President Trump, I've never had President, former President Trump, maybe
future President Trump on the show. And it's amazing to
me as somebody who's covered presidential elections literally going back
to nineteen seventy six and having interviewed Gerald Ford and

(01:00:19):
Jimmy Carter as a young reporter, and having obviously the
Reagan years and then the Bush years, and there was
always reach out to minority groups that Jack Kemp used
to try to do that and did it pretty successfully.
But he was always that minority voice within the Republican
Party that there are people in groups that have traditionally

(01:00:41):
been democratic who can identify with a Republican message. And
Donald Trump, above all, was able to deliver that message,
which again it's stunning, and it's also stunning to think
that this guy who lost with such la of grace

(01:01:01):
was able to somehow bring himself back through indictments. I mean,
he put it all on the incredible.

Speaker 5 (01:01:06):
I mean it's incredible.

Speaker 10 (01:01:07):
It's it's an internet.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Look.

Speaker 10 (01:01:09):
I was over in Dublin on a trade mission recently,
and then I was in Greece doing something for a
robotics program for education and Europe. People don't realize. Europe
right now is absolutely one hundred and fifty percent glued
to this, and they have been for the last six months.
They are fascinated with what's happening here to the point
that you just made because you have somebody like Trump
who's gone through all this turmoil and all this craziness

(01:01:31):
and all the crazy things he says, and the indictments
and all this stuff, and now it looks like he's
actually going to win again, and he's again his I
think as everybody gets now he's not connecting with people
on a policy, or he connects with people with an attitude,
with a pride in America, with a toughness, with I'm
going to fight. You know, we're Americans. We got that

(01:01:54):
in our DNA a little bit. And I think too
often the politicians go, well, this policy will help you,
so you should vote for me because I'm going to
help you, as opposed to kind of thinking a little
broader and understanding what the DNA of a free market
American is all about. And there's something there that Trump
connects with, and there's no denying it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
I follow some of the betting pools in Europe and
have watched them an intense interest in this race with
the bookies in London. I was stunned that he did
not invite Nicki Haley to come out on the campaign
trail with him, and I almost felt that he would
have preferred to have lost the White House and all

(01:02:35):
the implications of that, rather than share any any glory
with anyone other than himself. Am I reading that wrong?

Speaker 10 (01:02:45):
Well, I'll say this, I don't think he was willing
to lose. I think the numbers just showed that the
vast majority of Nicki voters were already with them, right.
They were good, They were Republican voters. They like me,
They wanted to change, they wanted the next generation. They
fought hard for it. But at the end of the day,
we're not voting for this insanity that Kamala was when
and the and the buying campaign we're bringing. And more importantly,

(01:03:05):
I go back to the statement. I say it a
lot that a couple of the interviews she did in
one week, she did like three straight interviews, but she
was asked what is going to be different? Like softballs,
like the number one question you you should have been
really prepared to answer back in July, Well, I can't.
Nothing comes to mind. You want to be the leader
of the free world, and nothing comes to mind about
what you're going to do different. It was a mind

(01:03:26):
bogglingly bad answer, and right at that point, combined with
the vice presidential debate, which, believe it or not, I
do think I had an impact. I think people were
told yeah, and I think people were told that jd
Vance was, you know, wacky and all this stuff, and
he came up measured incredibly smart, cordial, clearly willing to
walk work across the aisle, not vindictive, and they said, Okay,

(01:03:49):
this is the future of the Republican Party that we're
voting for. We can buy into this. So it was
a combination of things that were Kamala.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
Just really blew it.

Speaker 10 (01:03:57):
And so because they just there was no there there,
it was kind of an empty suit. And so again,
the race isn't over. We'll see where all this goes.
But I think people like to your point, I think
we're all pretty surprised. I got this close anyways, and
now it looks like he's going to win Virginia. Some
of these states that should have been walkaways for Kamala
are are are being challenged.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
So I wonder what Joe Biden and Joe Biden are
saying tonight in the Lincoln bedroom.

Speaker 10 (01:04:24):
You know, Look, my guess is they're more upset that
Trump is winning than Kamala is losing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:04:30):
I really believe that. Look, I have said all along,
the first person voting for Donald Trump was Gavin Newsom
in California, because that guy's if Kamala had won, that
guy's political career was over right. I mean, it means
you can't run for president for eight years that no
one's going to care about him in eight year, so
we do.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
What we do know is there would be a different,
a different Republican running in two thousand and twenty eight.
Maybe a'll big Chris Son and we'll see. Hey, Chris,
thanks so much again, Happy birthday and thanks so much.

Speaker 10 (01:04:58):
Thank you, brother Buddy's always We'll talk soon.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Good night. When we get back on the other side.
During the eleven o'clock news, we'll talk with the Tom O'Neil,
the son of former Lieutenant governor, son of Tippleneil, as
well as pollster Spencer Kimball. Stay with WBZ folks throughout
the night.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Our election night coverage continues now with night Side with

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Well, I'm delighted to be joined as our final guest
tonight here on the night Side portion of the special
twenty twenty four presidential election program by Emerson College pollster
Spencer Kimball. Spencer, welcome back, Thanks so much for being
with us for a few minutes. To end my evening here,

(01:05:49):
I have to say that I'm following this race very
closely and I'm particularly watching Iowa, and I know you
you don't want to talk about it, but I just
want to say congratulations. You called Iowa. Over the weekend,
the Des Moines Register had a poll which suggested that

(01:06:09):
perhaps Kamala Harris was in the lead of Iowa, and
it was a shock poll. You had a poll over
the weekend which has hit the final number in Iowa
right on the button, fifty five to forty five approximately.

(01:06:30):
You're not going to take a victory lap. I know
you too well, but I got to tell you you
must feel pretty good because there were a lot of
people who were looking at that Des Moines Register poll
a little more closely than they were looking at your
polling in the state of Iowa.

Speaker 7 (01:06:44):
Well, then, it's always pleasure to be with you, and
thanks for the coverage this evening. It was a good
experiment in different methods in survey research, and that's what
in our world. We had a chance of last week
to talk methodology, where each polster comes up with new
methods of how to collect data and how to analyze data.

(01:07:07):
And an Seltzer is a great polster out of Iowa,
and she's had a traditional method of collecting data using
live operators, using different techniques that have been very beneficial.
But as technology and communication has advanced, so to have
our methods. And I think it demonstrated that in the
twenty first century of polling that some of those traditional

(01:07:28):
methods which are still successful, can also be you know,
new methods can be utilized that are also successful. And
I think that Iowa demonstrated that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Now I had my eye on Iowa tonight. I assume
you did as well. But you're very gracious in your
comments tonight. So I'm going to move on here and
tell you that I kept a particular look for it
because I take some pride in the hometown team, and
you and a friend Dave Paleologus, John Zogby as well

(01:08:01):
are the three poleses who I rely upon. So thank
you for being available tonight.

Speaker 7 (01:08:05):
Well, we lived up to the expectation there.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
You sure did you? Sure did h You've also lived
up to the expectation tonight. I think this race is
going very much in the way that that many thought.
But what I mean it looks to me as if
Donald Trump is going to be the president elect, if

(01:08:29):
not tonight, sometime in the next day or so. Am
I reading that?

Speaker 10 (01:08:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:08:36):
No, no, no, I think we've seen enough in the
in the data here certainly in the voting that he
has outperformed the polls once again. Now you know, we've
been pretty good with him. We had him winning these states,
but he's winning them by two to three points higher,
which is still you know, a pretty good polling, but
that's his tradition. Now he's got some big well we've

(01:08:59):
seen is not just in the swing states, and you
know those are the most competitive because that's where Harris
spent you know, billions of dollars in advertising, but in
these other states, like look at New Jersey, what are
we at four or five points in Jersey? Minnesota two
three points, so Virginia that's been sitting. So these are

(01:09:20):
states that the Democrats were at ten points. And while
Trump may not win these states as we come back
from this election, while there's a lot more things in play,
and it looks as if the electorate has made a
real shift in how they're going to vote in the future.
And look at like the state of Florida, that state
doesn't look to be in play at all for the

(01:09:40):
Democrats in the future. That could become a problem for
them as the electorate shrinks. And it's amazing to think
where we were just eight years ago when Trump won
that first election, not winning the popular vote. He might
win the popular vote as well tonight when you start
looking at California hasn't come in.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 7 (01:10:05):
But I think he I think he could walk out
with the popular vote.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
It's stunning to think of this. This this this political resurrection.
I mean when you think of where he was in
twenty twenty one, after the disgraceful events of January sixth,
twenty twenty one, and the indictments, all of that, and

(01:10:32):
everything was on the line for him tonight. I had
I spoke with Tom O'Neill earlier this hour, and he
was trying to figure out. I was trying to figure
out what is the message that somehow Donald Trump was
able to deliver this. This is almost a realignment election
in terms of we're different. Yeah, so tell it. You can.

(01:10:53):
You can explain that better than I can. Go ahead, please, Well.

Speaker 7 (01:10:57):
The working class is becoming Republicans and the upper class
is becoming Democrats. And the problem that the Republicans had
a few years ago coming out of the Bush years,
where that they were the upper class and the Democrats
were the working class and that change of what's happening
in real time, But you know it's happening as you
watch these returns in Michigan, in Minnesota, and you know,

(01:11:20):
I think we saw it in real time back in
twenty sixteen in Ohio. When we think of that blue
wall of Pennsylvania to Minnesota, we're forgetting that Ohio used
to be a swing state. That's not you know, that's
a I think we had it at twelve points tonight,
maybe ten points. That's no longer in playing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
And the Republicans also also won a took a senencee to.

Speaker 7 (01:11:41):
Way packed up the Senate YEP, and they're going to
do the same thing out in Montana. So the question
is can the Democrats at this point hold the House?
Otherwise the Republicans could potentially walk out with all three
chambers and have a lot of power for the next
two years.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
So what is the message that that Trump Wasn't it
as simple as she broke it, I'll fix it. I
mean that was what he came down to at the end.
She broke it, I'll fix it.

Speaker 7 (01:12:07):
No, no, no, no, it goes further back, goes back
to NaSTA. He's back into the uh, into the into
that to that trade agreement where there's still a lot
of you know, yeah, yeah, no, that's deep rooted, but
you know he's part of that where hey, that was
a mistake, people agree with it. And I think you
saw Vance almost get it to a full boil during

(01:12:27):
that vice presidential debate with Walls, where Walls ended up
agreeing with them because you know, they were talking about
experts and experts, and it got Walls twisted up on
that argument. So that's where Trump has been able to
make inroads with that union vote, the working class, and
younger voters. So that I think the other concern, Yeah,

(01:12:48):
do you think it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
Would have made a difference if Kamala Harris Kamala Harris
had picked Governor Shapiro of Pennsylvania or do you think
this was this was baked in the cake.

Speaker 5 (01:13:00):
No.

Speaker 7 (01:13:00):
I think that would have been one event that could
have helped. I think there was a series of mistakes
that were made on the Harris side and the communication
front that opened up or didn't know if enough opportunities
for the campaign and she had to play for that,
including not accepting many debates when she initially entered into
the race and because of that, the whole campaign kind

(01:13:24):
of falls flat in October because there's no events, there's
no you, no focusing events to get the country looking
at something. And with that said, Trump was in a
strong spot. There's a reason why Joe Biden President Biden
was he dropped from the race because he thought he
wasn't gonna win.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
Spencer, you you, you and Dave Paleologus and and John
Zogby are the best, simply the best, the three of you.

Speaker 7 (01:13:56):
Thanks so much, my friend, Dan, Thank you so much
for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Anytime, anytime we will. We'll do a postmoto on this
sometime in the next week or so. Thanks so much.
Spencer Kimball, Emerson College poster. Extraordinary, extraordinary.

Speaker 4 (01:14:10):
That is it for me.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
But please stay with WBZ. We got great coverage into
the early morning hours. This race is not officially over yet.
Stay with us.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
Our election night coverage continues now with night Side with

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
Well, I'm delighted to be joined as our final guest
tonight here on the night Side portion of the special
twenty twenty four presidential election program by Emerson College pollster
Spencer Kimball. Spencer, welcome back. Thanks so much for being
with us for a few minutes. To end my evening here,

(01:14:52):
I have to say that I'm following this race very
closely and I'm particularly watching Iowa, and I know you
don't want to talk about it, but I just want
to say congratulations. You called Iowa. Over the weekend, the
Des Moines Register had a poll which suggested that perhaps

(01:15:14):
Kamala Harris was in the lead of Iowa, and it
was a shock poll. You had a poll over the
weekend which has hit the final number in Iowa right
on the button, fifty five to forty five approximately. You're
not going to take a victory lap. I know you

(01:15:35):
too well, but I got to tell you you must
feel pretty good because there were a lot of people
who were looking at that Des Moines Register poll a
little more closely than they were looking at your polling
in the state of Iowa.

Speaker 7 (01:15:47):
Well, then, it's always pleasure to be with you, and
thanks for the coverage this evening. It was a good
experiment in different methods in survey research, and that's what
in our world. And we had a chance last week
to talk methodology where each polster comes up with new
methods of how to collect data and how to analyze data.

(01:16:10):
And Ann Seltzer is a great polster out of Iowa,
and she's had a traditional method of collecting data using
live operators, using different techniques that have been very beneficial.
But as technology and communication has advanced, so to have
our methods. And I think it demonstrated that in the
twenty first century of polling that some of those traditional

(01:16:31):
methods which are still successful can also be you know,
new methods can be utilized that are also successful. And
I think that Iowa demonstrated that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
Now I had my eye on Iowa tonight, I assume
you did as well. But you're very gracious in your
comments tonight. So I'm going to move on here and
tell you that I kept a particular look for it
because I take some pride in the hometown team and
you and our friend Dave Paleologus and John Zogby as

(01:17:03):
well are the three poleses who I rely upon. So
thank you for being available tonight.

Speaker 7 (01:17:08):
Well, we lived up to the expectation there.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
You sure did you sure did? Uh. You've also lived
up to the expectation tonight. I think this race is
going very much in the way that that many thought.
But what I mean it looks to me as if
Donald Trump is going to be the president elect, if

(01:17:32):
not tonight, sometime in the next day or so. Am
I reading that?

Speaker 8 (01:17:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:17:39):
No, no, no, I think we've seen enough in the
in the data here, certainly in the voting, that he
has outperformed the polls once again. Now you know, we've
been pretty good with him. We had him winning these states,
but he's winning them by two to three points higher,
which is still, you know, a pretty good polling, but
that's his tradition. Now he's got some big What we've

(01:18:02):
seen is not just in the swing states, and you
know those are the most competitive because that's where Harris
spent you know, billions of dollars in advertising, but in
these other states, like look at New Jersey. What do
we at four or five points in Jersey? Minnesota two
three points, so Virginia that's been sitting. So these are

(01:18:23):
states that the Democrats were at ten points. And while
Trump may not win these states, as we come back
from this election, will there's a lot more things in play,
and it looks as if the electorate has made a
real shift in how they're going to vote. In the
future and look at like the state of Florida. That
state doesn't look to be in play at all for

(01:18:43):
the Democrats in the future. That could become a problem
for them as the electorate shrinks. And it's amazing to
think where we were just eight years ago when Trump
won that first election, not winning the popular vote. He
might win the popular vote as well tonight when you
start looking at California hasn't come in.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 7 (01:19:08):
But I think he I think he could walk out
with the popular vote.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
It's stunning to think of this, uh, this this resk,
this political resurrection. I mean when you think of where
he was in twenty twenty one, after the disgraceful events
of January sixth, twenty twenty one, and the indictments, all

(01:19:35):
of that, and everything was on the line for him tonight.
I had I spoke with Tom O'Neill earlier this hour,
and he was trying to figure out I was trying
to figure out what is the message that somehow Donald
Trump was able to deliver this This is almost a
realignment election in terms of weird different Yeah, so tell

(01:19:55):
it you can. You can explain that better than I can.
Go ahead, please.

Speaker 7 (01:20:00):
Working class is becoming Republicans and the upper class is
becoming Democrats. And the problem that the Republicans had a
few years ago coming out of the Bush years, where
that they were the upper class and the Democrats were
the working class, and that change of what's happening in
real time. But you know it's happening as you watch
these returns in Michigan, in Minnesota. You know, I think

(01:20:23):
we saw it in real time back in twenty sixteen
in Ohio. When we think of that blue wall of
Pennsylvania to Minnesota, we're forgetting that Ohio used to be
a swing state. That's not you know, that's a I
think we had it at twelve points tonight, maybe ten points.
That's no longer important.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
And the Republicans also also won a took a senencee.

Speaker 7 (01:20:44):
To wak taped up the Senate YEP, and they're going
to do the same thing out in Montana. So the
question is can the Democrats at this point hold the House?
Otherwise the Republicans could potentially walk out with all three
chambers and have a lot of power for the next
two years.

Speaker 2 (01:20:59):
So what is message that that Trump Wasn't it as
simple as she broke it, I'll fix it. I mean,
that was what he came down to at the end.
She broke it, I'll fix it.

Speaker 7 (01:21:09):
No, no, no, no, it goes further back, goes back
to NAFTA. He's back into the UH, into the into that,
to that trade agreement where there's still a lot of
you know, yeah, yeah, no, that's deep rooted, but you
know he's part of that where hey, that was a mistake.
People agree with it. And I think you saw Vance
almost get it to a full boil during that vice

(01:21:31):
presidential debate with Walls, where Walls ended up agreeing with
them because you know, they were talking about experts and experts,
and it got Walls twisted up on that argument. So
that's where Trump has been able to make inroads with
that union vote, the working class, and younger voters. So
that I think the other concern. Yeah, do you think it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:51):
Would have made a difference if Kamala Harris, Kamala Harris
had picked Governor Shapiro of Pennsylvania or do you think
this was this was baked in the cake.

Speaker 7 (01:22:03):
No. I think that would have been one event that
could have helped. I think there was a series of
mistakes that were made on the Harris side and the
communication front that opened up or didn't know off enough
opportunities for the campaign, and she had to play for that,
including not accepting many debates when she initially entered into

(01:22:23):
the race. And because of that, the whole campaign kind
of falls flat in October because there's no events, there's
no you, no focusing events to get the country looking
at something. And with that said, Trump was in a
strong spot. There's a reason why Joe Biden President Biden
was he dropped from the race because he thought he

(01:22:46):
wasn't gonna win.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Spencer, you you, you and and Dave Paleologus and uh
and John Zogby are the best, simply the best, the
three of you. Thanks so much.

Speaker 7 (01:22:59):
By from Dan, thank you so much for having met anytime.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
Anytime we will we'll do we'll do a post warning
on this sometime in the next week or so. Thanks
so much, Spencer, Kimball Emerson College poster. Extraordinary, extraordinary. That
is it for me. But please stay with WBZ. We
got great coverage into the early morning hours. This race
is not officially over yet. Stay with us.

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