April 8, 2025 • 39 mins
We kicked off the program with four news stories and different guests on the stories we think you need to know about!
Trump extends TikTok ban deadline by 75 days - predictions for potential outcomes, what the impact(s) would be on brands, creators and consumers? With Scott Sutton - CEO of Later (a marketing brand)
The Fate of the Generals: MacArthur, Wainwright, and the Epic Battle for the Philippines - details the story of two World War II generals who both received the Medal of Honor through contrasting means of leadership. With Jonathan Horn - author and former White House speechwriter for President George W. Bush.
Follow-up on the First Robot Assisted Live Liver Plant at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. Dr. Martin Dibs – a surgeon involved in Zeller’s procedure and director of Beth Israel’s living liver transplant program.
THE GOLF 100: A Spirited Ranking of the Greatest Players of All Time. With Michael Arkush – Author & Sportswriter who contributes to the NY Times & WaPo.
Listen to WBZ NewsRadio on the NEW iHeart Radio app and be sure to set WBZ NewsRadio as your #1 preset!
Trump extends TikTok ban deadline by 75 days - predictions for potential outcomes, what the impact(s) would be on brands, creators and consumers? With Scott Sutton - CEO of Later (a marketing brand)
The Fate of the Generals: MacArthur, Wainwright, and the Epic Battle for the Philippines - details the story of two World War II generals who both received the Medal of Honor through contrasting means of leadership. With Jonathan Horn - author and former White House speechwriter for President George W. Bush.
Follow-up on the First Robot Assisted Live Liver Plant at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. Dr. Martin Dibs – a surgeon involved in Zeller’s procedure and director of Beth Israel’s living liver transplant program.
THE GOLF 100: A Spirited Ranking of the Greatest Players of All Time. With Michael Arkush – Author & Sportswriter who contributes to the NY Times & WaPo.
Listen to WBZ NewsRadio on the NEW iHeart Radio app and be sure to set WBZ NewsRadio as your #1 preset!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's new video.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I call that is music to my ears. Put the
TV on mute, listen to the radio. Ladies and gentlemen,
thank you very much to call. My name is Dan Ray,
the host of night Side, and we have a big
night coming up. We will get at some point, I'm sure,
to the stock market, because the stock market today begin
(00:29):
up like fourteen hundred points on the Dow and it
finished the day three hundred down, so a swing of
about seventeen hundred points on it. It's almost becoming funny
at this point if you don't want it to laugh
or cry, and I'm not telling you to panic. We'll
talk about that later. We have a we have four
(00:51):
interesting guests coming up this hour on a variety of topics,
and then later on this evening when we get into
the conversation part of the program. That's where you can participate.
Interesting article in the Globe day or so ago was
on the digital I'm not sure you're going to see
it in the print version. It's about the retrial of
Karen Reid and whether or not people who fervently believed
(01:14):
in her guilt or innocence have some of them actually
switched positions or changed their opinions. We'll get to that,
and then I think most of you may have heard
that the website twenty three in Me has filed for bankruptcy.
Many people are worried that their personal data, in their
(01:34):
genetic information, in the process of this bankruptcy deal, might
be sold to other companies. We're going to talk with
an activism director of the Electronic Frontier Foundation who can
probably answer most of our questions. But there's all sorts
of things going on. Christin un who says he is
not running for the Senate in New Hampshire. That's a shame.
And Boston City councilor Tania Fernandez Anderson will plead guilty
(01:59):
in a federal correct case against her. You never like
to dance on anyone's grave, but certainly she has disgraced
herself and very difficult to do, has disgraced the Boston
City Council as well. So we'll get to all of that,
I'm sure, in some form of fashion later on, but
I want to start off with Scott Sutton. Scott knows
a lot more about TikTok than I do, and he
(02:22):
is the CEO of a marketing brand brand called a
brand called later Latr. Scott Sutton, Welcome to Nightside. How
are you.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
You're doing great, Dan, Thanks for having me appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Okay, I don't know much about TikTok. I know that
it's owned by a Chinese communist company which is probably
under the control of, not the very strong influence of
the leaders of China, and a lot of people are
concerned about the content on TikTok. Does that set up
the concern as you understand it, and you of course
(02:59):
really understand it.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, I think it's It's been quite the topic on
a variety of different fronts. I think this most current
discussion is, you know, really around data privacy for American
citizens and having control of TikTok with byte Dance, with
ties back to China. And there have been lots of
(03:23):
discussions about the leadership and the you know, the leadership
in China having access to Americans data. So the root
of all this is coming down to data privacy.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, and data privacy, but also look, you get on Facebook,
you get on Instagram, those are American companies. The fact
that China has all of this information, how many young
people and how many people are on TikTok approximately.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I want to say in the United States it's something
like one hundred and seventy million users. It's an immense
amount of users, and the amount of content is staggering,
and the amount of information that can be gathered from
that content really is vast.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Okay, So I know that our government is basically threatening
to threatening TikTok they'll shut them down unless they agreed
to a US ownership to sell it to US interest. Again,
I'm just trying to make sure that I'm following the
story correctly. Is that the impast that we have arrived at.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yeah, The position has often from the Trump administration, with
Biden stepping out in the recent developments. The original ask
was to fully divest the entirety of the US entity
and give up control transfer to an American owner. Since then,
they've softened their position to allow Bidance to have fifty
(04:52):
percent ownership within China, but to have the large controlling
interests be state side to better control the decision making
as well as access to data for ByteDance wants the
TikTok Us entity transfers hands.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
So Trump doesn't want this to go away. He wants
to keep TikTok up there because I think he sees
that as a tool that he's able to use correct, correctly, correct. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I think what we're seeing right now is TikTok is
caught up in a much larger foreign policy discussion along
with the terrorists and everything going on. You've seen the
back and forth. This is very much part of an
overarching negotiation around US and China. I do think that
we want US control for the data privacy, but conceding
that fifty percent was very much a strategic form policy
(05:41):
move and it will continue to be a discussion as
we work through the kind of closure of this entire negotiation.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Okay, so thank you for bringing it to the terrorists,
because I assume that this was part of the deal.
How do you see this working out? I mean, do
you see that somehow TikTok China wants talk to remain active,
that that might give the US some leverage on tariffs,
(06:09):
or do you see it differently? How do you see
this wrapping up these the issues not only of tariffs
and TikTok and as they interrelate.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, I think in both the cases of TikTok and
the terriffs. You know, the Trump administration has created leverage
and is trying to create a position of power from
which to negotiate, and I think what you saw this
week was a strong move with very aggressive tariffs, and
then what you saw was an openness to have discussions
(06:40):
to land in a middle ground, creating some type of
leverage for the United States and these forign policy discussions.
I think TikTok is also a part of that larger
discussion with China. There was already a tariff discussion wrapped
into Sentinel that wrapped earlier with a ten percent tariff.
From when Trump originally came in, he saw an escalation
(07:00):
of terrorists and then the retaliatory terrorists. So right now
there's a lot of posturing, but TikTok is caught up
in what is a much larger US and China relationship conversation.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Okay, so you're the expert, I'm not. At the end
of the day, does TikTok live or die? And who
controls one of your opinion?
Speaker 3 (07:21):
I think one hundred percent TikTok will will remain. I
think part of Trump's original campaign and his commitment to
working through this deal is signaling that you know, TikTok
is important to American citizens. He wants to continue to
have the app in existence, and I think that there
will be a deal negotiated. To whom that is still
(07:44):
up in the air. It looks like Oracle and a
Group is a front runner. We saw a late bid
from Amazon last week. We've seen other parties. You know,
you have mister b center the discussion. I think ultimately
Oracle and a Group there is the leading contender, but
will have to see as details emerge.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Do you think Elon Musk gets involved in this in
any way, shape or form or no. Is that not
his thing?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
I don't see it, But at the same time, I've
been surprised or less surprised by other things.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I think with all all that's on his plate between
you know, last last week we saw Xai acquiring x
in a forty three billion dollar buyout. He's wrapping up
his work in Doge. It would seem Tesla's stock has
been down and he wants to refocus on some of
those efforts. He's already got enough on his plate. It
(08:37):
would seem to take on one more thing in a
very very large investment. It seems unlikely.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I've really enjoyed this conversation, Scott. I don't know much
about this, but you've given me some es which have
been very helpful for me to understand it a little
bit better and hopefully to my audience as well. I
want to thank you. Tell me about your company later.
How can folks get in touch with you? What do
you do? Want to give you a chance to just
talk about your work.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah, thank you very much for that.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
So later.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
As the leader in influencer marketing and social media management,
so we post millions of posts on social media. We
help some of the largest enterprises in the world do
data driven advertising and influencer activations on social media, so
they this really is the future of marketing is on
social and we're taking a very data driven approach. So
(09:27):
we're seeing firsthand as consumer sentiment shifts and user sentiment
around the band comes up. We can see the actual
data move from the post quantity investment dollars. If people
want to find us, it's later dot com. But a
really really interesting time to be in social media and
appreciate the chance to talk about it with y'all.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And you know, Scott, you can pull out this interview
down if you folks can go to our website tomorrow
Nightside on Demand anytime probably after two am tomorrow morning,
Nightside on Demand, if you would like, and you could
post this up on your website and maybe introduce some
of your followers and your brand influencers to this program.
(10:08):
We do this five nights a week, eight to midnight.
And you've been a really great guest. I'd love to
have you back anything.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
We'd love to We're in Boston, right down the road
from y'all. We'll definitely definitely share out. Yeah, well we'll
share out on our side as well, but always happy
to have a conversation and support Boston.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Thanks so much, God go Boston. All right, when we
get back, we're going to change topics. We're going to
look back at the fate of a couple of generals,
Douglas MacArthur and a general, a little lesser known general,
Jonathan Mayhew Wainwright. Interesting book, The Fate of the Generals.
It's out as of April first. Those of you who
(10:49):
are historians are going to love this. Next guest, we'll
be back on night Side right after this.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
If you're on Night Side with Dan Ray, I'm w
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
All Right, we have I think a book that it's
going to fascinate a lot of my listeners. It's called
The Fate of the Generals. MacArthur Wainwright in the epic
Battle for the Philippines, details the story of two World
War Two generals who both received the Medal of Honor
through contrasting means of leadership with us. As Jonathan Horn,
(11:21):
author and former White House speech writer for George W.
Bush w as we would say, Jonathan Horn, welcome to nightside.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
How are you, thanks so much for having me tonight.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
You're very welcome. Wainwright is obviously less known than MacArthur,
so let's talk about what Waynwright went through. And I'm
also I realized my dad spent two and a half
years in China, Burman, India during World War Two, and
I remember lots of talk about General Stillwell, Joe Stillwell,
(11:55):
and he doesn't make your book. I'm interested. It is
the story all around the Battle for the Philippines, as
the title would imply, and that's why it's Wayne Wright
and MacArthur.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Well, you know, so many of us remember that famous
vow that Douglas mccarthur made I shall return, and he
said those words after being ordered to evacuate the Philippines
at the start of World War two when the Japanese invaded,
and he left behind his army to starvation and eventually
to surrender. And as you said, we've forgotten the story
(12:27):
of the general who stayed and had to become the
highest ranking prisoner of war of World War two, and
that is Jonathan Mayhew Wainewright. And he also made a vow,
and his vow was to stay with his men whatever
the cost, and to share their fate if necessary, as
the highest ranking prisoner of war. And I think you
(12:48):
can't understand MacArthur's vow to return unless you understand the
vow of the general who vowed to stay. So these
two vows need to be in the same book. And
still well, of course, what was was the man in
China and Burma, and he had a very frustrating experience
during World War two. He's not part of this story, sure,
because it is focused on on the Philippines and MacArthur's
(13:12):
attempt to return.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
So now MacArthur the better known okay uh, And of
course MacArthur ends up with with a problem with Truman
in Korea, and eventually uh Is is basically, I guess,
not discharged, but but but he he basically has to
comply with what the civilian leadership said during the Korean War.
(13:36):
Did did MacArthur want to lead? Tell me why? Why
did one leave in the other and the other stay?
What's the what's the story behind that? I'm sure that's
the critical nature of the book.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
That's a great question. And the answer is MacArthur received
orders from President Roosevelt to leave the Philippines. He was
prepared to die if necessary there, but the thinking in
Washington was MacArthur was too important to go down with
the ship, if you can believe it, because he's become
a symbol for what it was so hard to find
in the world in nineteen forty two. In early nineteen
(14:11):
forty two, because at that time it looked like the
Japanese were just succeeding everywhere they went, and the only
place that Americans could see evidence of resistance was the Philippines.
And because MacArthur was in charge of the radio, when
you know the power of the radio, all the communicators
out of the Philippines mentioned one guy, and that was MacArthur,
so he was thought to be too valuable to let
(14:32):
go down with the ship, and Wainwright took over.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So waine Wright ends up captured with the as surrender.
I guess the troops surrender, correct.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
Correct, And in fact, tomorrow is the anniversary of the
surrender of Batan, which is the largest surrender in American history.
Nearly eighty thousand forces surrendered on April ninth, nineteen forty
two in the Philippines or United States forces.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Is the Death March of Batan.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
That is the Death March. Wainwright fights the one for
one more month on the nearby island of Krigador, and
then he'll have to ultimately surrender and also surrender all
the Philippine islands, which were back then most people forget
they were an American colony at the time.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Sure, so, Wainwright is a pow, highest ranking pow in
the history of the United States Armed Forces.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
He was certainly the highest of World War Two. He
was a lieutenant general when he was taking pow. And
he you know, the Japanese did not treat prisoner as
well they as many American commanders learned in the Pacific.
The Japanese themselves did not believe in surrender, and they
had no respect for those who did surrender. So Wainwright
will face systematic starvation. He will be beaten and tortured,
(15:49):
and the Japanese will try to use him for propaganda,
and of course they isolate him in ways that really
are in himself torture.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Well, a lot of the POWs in Vietnam saw that
as well, well McCain and others who are held prisoner
of war during the Vietnam War. So how does we
know how the story ends for macarthy? He returns, he
gets a lot of the glory and eventually is in
charge in Korea and defies Truman, and Truman brings him
(16:18):
to heal. How does it end for Waynwright?
Speaker 5 (16:21):
Well, Wayne Wright will spend the rest of the war
as a prisoner. In fact, the Japanese move him around.
They bring him from the Philippines to Taiwan and eventually
all the way to Manchuria. Wainwright will face negative forty
nine degree temperatures. I mean, this really uses a story
of survival in addition to courage and sacrifice. And in
the end of the war he is eventually taken out
(16:45):
of prison and If you look at the photo of
MacArthur on the USS Missouri at the end of the war,
you will see Wainwright standing behind him and MacArthur will
hand him one of the pens he uses to sign
the instrument of surrender.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Wow. What a great story or what a great book.
The book has come out on April first, so it's
available right now, Jonathan.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Right April fifteenth, next week, but it's available for pre
order wherever books are sold.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Oh, okay, okay. The fate of the generals Macartha, Wainwright
and the epic Battle for the Philippines. So let me
tell you. Why was last question? Why did the Japanese
spare Wayne Wright's life? I mean they they could have
killed them. How was it American troops that found him
(17:32):
in Manchuria? How did that or was it Chinese troops
who were our ally at the time that that liberated
him in Manchuria?
Speaker 5 (17:40):
You know, that's a fabulous question. And people in Washington
were really worried what the Japanese might do to Wayne
right as the war was ending, So a special OSS
team was sent to go find Wainwright. The OSS, being
the precursor to the CIA, was sent to go land
and jump into Manchuria and find Wainwright, and they did
locate him, and ultimately he left that prison if you
(18:02):
can believe it with Soviet troops who were coming through
Manchuria themselves.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, no, it doesn't. That does not surprise me at all.
But that's a that's a great story to learn in
the book as well, Jonathan. I really enjoyed it very
very much, and keep us posted on your other other books.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Would like to keep in touch with you, okay, and
thank you so much for having me on tonight. I
enjoyed the conversation.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Well, I hope that this book becomes This is a
This is a great book. This is a book when
I think of Father's day books for fathers or grandfathers,
this is the one, folks that I think, if you
give it to your grandfather, if he happened to be
a World War Two veteran, or are you whatever, the
(18:45):
Fate of the Generals, this is one I'm going to read.
Thanks Jonathan very much. Jonathan Horne, the author of the
Fate of the Generals, MacArthur Wainwright and the Epic Battle
for the Philippines. Thanks again, I really enjoyed this conversation.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
Jonathan, thank you too.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
When we get right after the news at the bottom
of the hour. Right here in WBZ Boston's news radio,
and by the way, we are in iHeart radio station.
You can easily pull down the new and improved iHeart
app and you can put us on make us your
number one presets, So we will only be a fingertip away.
Three sixty five, twenty four to seven. We're going to
follow up with the first robot assisted live liver transplant
(19:24):
at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. We'll be talking with
doctor Martin Dibbs. So follow up to a conversation we
had about a week ago, and I think you're going
to be fascinated by this part of the story. Back
on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
It's night Side on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Well, about a week or so ago, we had a
very interesting conversation, and to be really honest with you,
I probably was so interested in the macro conversation that
I didn't focus on what we really needed to talk
about that night. So I am delighted, someone embarrassed, but
delighted to welcome back Dr Martin Dibbs. He's the surgeon
(20:05):
involved in a procedure the first liver transplant that involved
the first robot assisted live liver transplant. Doctor Dibbs, welcome back.
I appreciate you joining us because the questions your answers
were so fascinating I just lost track of the time.
(20:27):
Thanks so much for coming back.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
And thank you so much for your interest and support
spreading the word.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So how tell us how a Well, most of us
are a little skeptical of robots. Okay, if I was
going to have a liver transplant, I probably would be
looking for doctor Martin Dibbs or someone of your caliber,
and you know robots, maybe not. How long? When when
(20:57):
were robots first considered and and how long does it
take to get them from the first consideration to where
we are today?
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Yeah, so robotic surgery has been here since year two thousand,
so there has been over twenty years of robotic surgery
in the world. First was in France in year two
thousand and then in the US in year two thousand
and three. What it means is that you have a
(21:30):
robotic surgical system that helps the surgeon do exactly what
we would do open with a big incision, but with
small incisions, And it's kind of similar to what people
you know about laparoscopic surgery, that we go inside the
(21:51):
abdomen with a camera and then we do everything we
would do open but with small incisions. But the robot
gives us the possibilit of having better instruments, so it
has better visualization and better ergonomics and angulation of the
instruments to be able to do more complex procedure but
(22:14):
with minimally invasive and small incisions as opposed to the
big incisions.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
So is it fair to say, I just know I
do not want to either downplay or overstate the importance
of the robotic aspect. Is it Is it fair to
say that the the robot's role is really to provide insight.
(22:42):
Is the robot doing the procedure or is the robot
in effect acting as the guide and telling the doctors okay,
it's okay here. We got to go here because the
robotic insertion of the instruments by the and the camera
by the robot gives you a look at the area
(23:03):
that's being worked on more effectively than it would be
without the robot. Or does the robot actually do part
of the procedure.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
No, the robot doesn't do the procedure. It's not controlling
the robot. It is a good question because people tend
to think that is the robot actually telling us what
to do. Is actually the opposite. So we have a
console that is right next to the to the patient,
(23:30):
and we have a surgeon in the console controlling all
the arms of the robot, and then there's a surgeon
that is at the bedside basically assisting with all the
instrumentation at the bedside. So it's always a two surgeon
at least two surgeon case and the robot.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Now, but everyone's in the same operating room, right, It's
not when you say the patient is at the it's
not as if they were in the same operating room.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Right in the same operating room. And we are all
planning to keep it like that and not necessarily do
surgeries from overseas because that wouldn't necessarily be safe at
least with the current technology.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Okay, So no remote surgeries, okay now, and this is
the first one here in Boston. Has it been used
since the first one or yes?
Speaker 4 (24:35):
So just to explain that robotic surgery has been used
for over twenty years in the US, but mostly it
has been for urology procedures or colorectal surgery or hernias,
but liver surgery has was one of the last ones
to adapt the technology given the complexity of the operations. Yes,
(25:00):
and so in the past five years in the world,
we have been doing more liver surgery with the robot
and we have learned how to really take advantage of
that surgical system to be able to get better visualization
and do more complex procedures.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
So leaving Donnor, Yeah, so you said again you use
the word visualization. Is the liver and I interrupted you,
and I apologize for that. So let me just finish
the question which I shouldn't have started and interrupted you.
Is the liver more inaccessible some of the other procedures
that you talk about, are they more accessible in the
(25:43):
liver because of his position within the body less accessible
to the surgeon without the assistance of the robot.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
The accessibility of the liver is pretty similar to the
other organs. But the complexity of liver surgery includes the
fact that we need to do a lot of vascular work,
so the liver is full of vessels and in this case,
for for example, what we talked last week about leaving
(26:15):
donor liver transplant. We need to make sure that the
donor has perfectly functional liver at the end and that
the other behalf of the liver that goes to the
recipient will be completely viable. So the complexity is high,
and that's why we have been slow to adapt this technology.
(26:39):
But over the past five years it has been really
crucial to do more and more complex surgeries minimally invasive.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
And when you started your career as a surgeon, did
you anticipate that there would be, you know, a robotic
aspect of it sometime or has the future arrived more
quickly than you would have anticipated.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Way more quickly. I started my career as a surgeon
here in Boston, and the technology at that point was
very very was barely starting. But right now we can
see that the robotic techniques and surgery has been increasing
(27:28):
so much that in fact, now the robotic surgical devices
are giving you feedback on how much pressure you're putting
in the tissue, and they're going to be advancing more
and more to be able to do less incisions and do,
for example, robotic surgery with only one small incision as
(27:49):
opposed to four, and so I think that this is
here to stay and it has definitely allowed us to
do complex dream with a faster recovery and better cosmesis
better outcomes and people get getting back to a regular
life again.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
It's always amazing to talk with you, doctor Dibbs. I
really appreciate you doing a second time with me, and
again thank you for what you and your colleagues do
for us, for people, for humanity every day of the week.
Not many of us can have the impact the individual
(28:31):
impact that you have in the lives of individuals and
also on their families and their circle of friends and
God blessing and thank you for what you do.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Thank you so much for your interest. I really think
that this makes an impact on patients that are waiting
for liver transcend. If we do more living donors and
people are on the wait list waiting for organs, the
fact that they know that we can do living donor's
(29:00):
minimum invasive will increase their likelihood of donating. And also
for liver tumors and liver cancer. The fact that we're
doing this surgeries with faster recovery and meaningly invasive is definitely.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Going to be.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Something that will benefit many patients, so really appreciate your health.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Well, we appreciate you, folks, Thanks so much, Doctor Martin
Dibbs of the best Beth Israel Deaconus Medical Center. We
will be back on Nightside and we're going to talk
about something very different, and that is the one hundred,
one hundred greatest golfers in the history of the game.
The Masters starts later this week, so we're going to
talk about one hundred greatest Masters, not those who competed
(29:45):
to the Masters, but the hundred greatest golfers.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Coming back on Nightside, Night Side with Dan Ray on
WBS Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Well, the Master starts this Thursday and is a it's
a cold night in Boston, but hopefully by Thursday it
will warm up a little bit down in Georgia when
they start, they start the Master's tournament with us to
talk about it. As an author and sportswriter who contributes to,
amongst other places, of the New York Times in the
Washington Post, Michael Arkush, Michael Arkush, welcome to night Side.
(30:19):
How are you.
Speaker 6 (30:20):
I'm great? How are you just fine?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
The hundred greatest golfers. Now, I've known some golfers uh
and primarily senior golfers. A couple of buddies of mine
played on the senior Tour, so uh pretty uh well, uh,
I'll tell you some time off here. Okay, but was
(30:45):
there was there was But he might have pitched for
the Yankees who went on the Senior Tours. A golfer
Ralph Terry.
Speaker 7 (30:51):
Yeah, sure, yeah, and he he didn't make a lot
of money in the Senior Tour, but he was, you know,
such a talented athlete to become a major League baseball
player pitcher for the Yankees, and but his.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
First love was golf. And so through him, I got
to meet a lot of the Chichie Rodriguez era guys
on the tours. Chi Chi on the this Chichi making.
Speaker 6 (31:13):
No no no Chechi. I'll tell you, though we missed Chichi,
we miss characters in the game like camp. He was
so much fun to watch. I was fortunate to cover
the Senior Tour for golf Old magazine in the late nineties,
and uh, nobody, nobody has been more entertaining than Chichi Rodriguez.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah. He sort of brought a joy de viverra to
the game that maybe uh was before that was missing.
But that that that's uh, that's neither here ner there,
let's u. I was interested and I've looked here, and
I didn't realize that number one hundred was a guy
from Ireland who won the US Open before Francis Woman.
I was unaware of him.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
No, he was John McDermott. He won the Open opened
back to back and at nineteen years old to do
this day, he's still the youngest player to win the
US Open. It's a really tragic story. I'll try to
sort of condense it a little bit. Is that he
collapsed to his pro shop a couple of years later
and wound up. His family wound up sending him to
(32:12):
a psychiatric hospital where he spent much of his life.
But in nineteen seventy one, at the US Open and Marion,
he was sort of ushered out of the pro shop
by an assistant pro had no idea who he was,
but at that moment Arnold Palmer walked in and saw
that and he was McDermott was Arnold Palmer's guest the
rest of the week. How about that?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
A great story. The other guy in the Senior Tour
who won the British Open, Bruce Vaughn who was never
on the PGA Tour, but on the senior tour as
a fella from Ralph Terry's hometown. Ralph taught and played
to play golf at the age of twenty. And when
the British the Senior British Open, not the British Open,
(32:56):
the Senior British Open. Okay, so you're not going to
tell who's number one, obviously, I'm going tell you will, Okay, Hey.
Speaker 6 (33:03):
Of course you know it's out it's out there. Drum roll.
Do you have a drum roll?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
I don't, but I go there.
Speaker 6 (33:10):
That's pretty good. I'll think it's Jack Nicholas. Jack Nicholas.
By the way, Jack Nipples did not win eighteen majors.
He won twenty. Everyone says eighteen, but I'm counting the
US Amateur in fifty nine and sixty one, which were
counted for years. When he won in eighty six and Augusta,
everybody said this is Jack's twentieth major, and somebody, I
don't think it was you, Okay, I'm not sure took
(33:33):
those two away and he suddenly has eighteen. I'm giving
them back. I'm restoring those two.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Well, good for you, that's good So when is Tiger
fall here? Because you know number two, number two, number two, okay,
so Arnold's got to be pretty close. Arnold's number five, okay.
So now I got to figure out who's between Arnold.
So we get maybe Ben Hogan and Sam Sneain three
or four?
Speaker 6 (33:55):
You got one, right, Hogan's at number four. Who's number three?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Man? Well your testing me here? Let me Modernvy hand
on jiv hand.
Speaker 6 (34:06):
He played in nineteen twenties. He would star in the
nineteen twenties.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Nineteen twenties, just before my time.
Speaker 6 (34:15):
Just a little bitfore your time, right, yeah, Bobby Jones,
Oh sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
I should have figured that. I mean, that's that's that.
If I was thinking right, I would have I understand that.
Did you have number six? You have a female golfer?
Speaker 6 (34:28):
Mickey right? Mickey right. It's amazing. I talked to people
and they go, who's Mickey right? And I can't believe it.
She was incredible, eighty to wins thirteen majors. There was
a four year stress in the early sixties. She won
forty four times, pretty much scaled back at the age
of thirty four or otherwise would have won ninety maybe
a hundred tournaments.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah, and some of these great female athletes, as I'm
sure you know. You know Teddley Albright who was a
figure skating Olympian champion and from Boston was a surgeon.
You know, after her career as a figure skater, what
did Ricky write do with the rest of her life?
Speaker 6 (35:09):
I mean, you know, she was really gave very few interviews,
by the way, and did not play that much golf. Yeah,
she was very very reclusive in a way, but she
had injuries earlier on as well. Ben Hogan said that
she had the greatest swing ever male or female, and
that's saying something to come from Ben Hogan.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Wow, boy, that's that's sure, is okay? So let's talk
about the modern day golfers. The guys will be keep
competing this weekend down to the Masters. Who's the top
rank you know, from your perspective in your.
Speaker 6 (35:42):
Book, Rory McElroy number twenty five, and Rory I believe
if he wins the Masters. I haven't done the exact numbers,
but ORI's four or five spots in the rankings. It's
incredible that he has not won a major since twenty fourteen.
If you had told me in twenty fourteen. He's not
going to win one for ten more years. I would
I don't know how much money I would have put
(36:03):
on that. That's insane. He's in his mid thirties now,
time is beginning to run out a little bit. He's
got to add a few more to his legacy.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Wow, this is how long did it take you to,
you know, to do to pull this book together?
Speaker 6 (36:21):
A long time. I started in this nineteen twelve no.
I started in two thousand, in the fall of twenty
twenty one, and it took me roughly three years. I
read every single article on Golf Digest from nineteen fifty on.
I know I'm insane. You can say that, and I read.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Don't worry about it.
Speaker 6 (36:41):
A lot of us are exactly this a long group, exactly,
but I read. I read it close to one hundred books,
did hundreds of interviews. I watched YouTube. You know you
watch YouTube too much. You watch these tournaments and go
into a rabbit hole. It's very scary. Yeah, but I
watched tons of tournaments.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Okay, let let me throw a couple more names at you.
You know, younger guys right now, Mikekelson and Travino they
got to be there at some point.
Speaker 6 (37:06):
Yeah, Trevino's number is fifteen. Trevino is incredible. I mean,
he grew up with nothing and he made so much
of himself hard work and one of the great ball
strikers of all time. Phil Micholson is number thirteen. Phil
Ncholson has six majors. He should have eight or nine
maybe more. Became too aggressive, too off and threw a
few majors away. It's you know, a lot of guys.
(37:29):
Tell you, a lot of guys in this book did
not live up to the expectations that we the press had,
even though they had great careers.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Okay, what about Gary Player.
Speaker 6 (37:37):
Gary Player's number two eleven, Gary Player nine time, nine majors,
only non American to win the Grand Slam, eighty nine
years old. You're going to see him on Thursday, hit
the ceremonial t shot. He's going to look like he's
thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yeah. Well, you know, my understanding is to play. When
he was playing, he would never shake hands with his
right hand on the day of the tournament, that he
would only shake with his left hand because he didn't
want to have anybody grabbed the right hand and squeeze
the right hand.
Speaker 6 (38:04):
I don't know if you blame no.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
I don no, I don't, but I don't know if
that's legendary or whatever. But I was told that by
a pretty good source, Michael. I really enjoyed this conversation.
The book The Golf one hundred is spirited ranking of
the greatest players of all time that's available. It's out
as of April first, twenty twenty five Amazon. If you
got a golfer in your family, think about Father's Day
(38:26):
coming up. This would be the perfect gift for a golfer.
Michael ash Arkush, thank you so much for your time
and love to get you back. We could talk more.
Speaker 6 (38:37):
I look forward to it. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Thanks Michael. All Right, when we get back, we're going
to get to the matters at hand. For the evening.
There was some late news today that we mentioned Christin
who is not going to run for US Senate seat
in New Hampshire. I unfortunately, we're gonna We're gonna talk, however,
about the Karen Reid case and has anyone changed their mind?
(39:00):
And I guess there are people who have switched from
one side to the other and it's caused some controversy.
We will explain right after the break. Here for the
nine o'clock news
It's night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's new video.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I call that is music to my ears. Put the
TV on mute, listen to the radio. Ladies and gentlemen,
thank you very much to call. My name is Dan Ray,
the host of night Side, and we have a big
night coming up. We will get at some point, I'm sure,
to the stock market, because the stock market today begin
(00:29):
up like fourteen hundred points on the Dow and it
finished the day three hundred down, so a swing of
about seventeen hundred points on it. It's almost becoming funny
at this point if you don't want it to laugh
or cry, and I'm not telling you to panic. We'll
talk about that later. We have a we have four
(00:51):
interesting guests coming up this hour on a variety of topics,
and then later on this evening when we get into
the conversation part of the program. That's where you can participate.
Interesting article in the Globe day or so ago was
on the digital I'm not sure you're going to see
it in the print version. It's about the retrial of
Karen Reid and whether or not people who fervently believed
(01:14):
in her guilt or innocence have some of them actually
switched positions or changed their opinions. We'll get to that,
and then I think most of you may have heard
that the website twenty three in Me has filed for bankruptcy.
Many people are worried that their personal data, in their
(01:34):
genetic information, in the process of this bankruptcy deal, might
be sold to other companies. We're going to talk with
an activism director of the Electronic Frontier Foundation who can
probably answer most of our questions. But there's all sorts
of things going on. Christin un who says he is
not running for the Senate in New Hampshire. That's a shame.
And Boston City councilor Tania Fernandez Anderson will plead guilty
(01:59):
in a federal correct case against her. You never like
to dance on anyone's grave, but certainly she has disgraced
herself and very difficult to do, has disgraced the Boston
City Council as well. So we'll get to all of that,
I'm sure, in some form of fashion later on, but
I want to start off with Scott Sutton. Scott knows
a lot more about TikTok than I do, and he
(02:22):
is the CEO of a marketing brand brand called a
brand called later Latr. Scott Sutton, Welcome to Nightside. How
are you.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
You're doing great, Dan, Thanks for having me appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Okay, I don't know much about TikTok. I know that
it's owned by a Chinese communist company which is probably
under the control of, not the very strong influence of
the leaders of China, and a lot of people are
concerned about the content on TikTok. Does that set up
the concern as you understand it, and you of course
(02:59):
really understand it.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, I think it's It's been quite the topic on
a variety of different fronts. I think this most current
discussion is, you know, really around data privacy for American
citizens and having control of TikTok with byte Dance, with
ties back to China. And there have been lots of
(03:23):
discussions about the leadership and the you know, the leadership
in China having access to Americans data. So the root
of all this is coming down to data privacy.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, and data privacy, but also look, you get on Facebook,
you get on Instagram, those are American companies. The fact
that China has all of this information, how many young
people and how many people are on TikTok approximately.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I want to say in the United States it's something
like one hundred and seventy million users. It's an immense
amount of users, and the amount of content is staggering,
and the amount of information that can be gathered from
that content really is vast.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Okay, So I know that our government is basically threatening
to threatening TikTok they'll shut them down unless they agreed
to a US ownership to sell it to US interest. Again,
I'm just trying to make sure that I'm following the
story correctly. Is that the impast that we have arrived at.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yeah, The position has often from the Trump administration, with
Biden stepping out in the recent developments. The original ask
was to fully divest the entirety of the US entity
and give up control transfer to an American owner. Since then,
they've softened their position to allow Bidance to have fifty
(04:52):
percent ownership within China, but to have the large controlling
interests be state side to better control the decision making
as well as access to data for ByteDance wants the
TikTok Us entity transfers hands.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
So Trump doesn't want this to go away. He wants
to keep TikTok up there because I think he sees
that as a tool that he's able to use correct, correctly, correct. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I think what we're seeing right now is TikTok is
caught up in a much larger foreign policy discussion along
with the terrorists and everything going on. You've seen the
back and forth. This is very much part of an
overarching negotiation around US and China. I do think that
we want US control for the data privacy, but conceding
that fifty percent was very much a strategic form policy
(05:41):
move and it will continue to be a discussion as
we work through the kind of closure of this entire negotiation.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Okay, so thank you for bringing it to the terrorists,
because I assume that this was part of the deal.
How do you see this working out? I mean, do
you see that somehow TikTok China wants talk to remain active,
that that might give the US some leverage on tariffs,
(06:09):
or do you see it differently? How do you see
this wrapping up these the issues not only of tariffs
and TikTok and as they interrelate.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, I think in both the cases of TikTok and
the terriffs. You know, the Trump administration has created leverage
and is trying to create a position of power from
which to negotiate, and I think what you saw this
week was a strong move with very aggressive tariffs, and
then what you saw was an openness to have discussions
(06:40):
to land in a middle ground, creating some type of
leverage for the United States and these forign policy discussions.
I think TikTok is also a part of that larger
discussion with China. There was already a tariff discussion wrapped
into Sentinel that wrapped earlier with a ten percent tariff.
From when Trump originally came in, he saw an escalation
(07:00):
of terrorists and then the retaliatory terrorists. So right now
there's a lot of posturing, but TikTok is caught up
in what is a much larger US and China relationship conversation.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Okay, so you're the expert, I'm not. At the end
of the day, does TikTok live or die? And who
controls one of your opinion?
Speaker 3 (07:21):
I think one hundred percent TikTok will will remain. I
think part of Trump's original campaign and his commitment to
working through this deal is signaling that you know, TikTok
is important to American citizens. He wants to continue to
have the app in existence, and I think that there
will be a deal negotiated. To whom that is still
(07:44):
up in the air. It looks like Oracle and a
Group is a front runner. We saw a late bid
from Amazon last week. We've seen other parties. You know,
you have mister b center the discussion. I think ultimately
Oracle and a Group there is the leading contender, but
will have to see as details emerge.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Do you think Elon Musk gets involved in this in
any way, shape or form or no. Is that not
his thing?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
I don't see it, But at the same time, I've
been surprised or less surprised by other things.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I think with all all that's on his plate between
you know, last last week we saw Xai acquiring x
in a forty three billion dollar buyout. He's wrapping up
his work in Doge. It would seem Tesla's stock has
been down and he wants to refocus on some of
those efforts. He's already got enough on his plate. It
(08:37):
would seem to take on one more thing in a
very very large investment. It seems unlikely.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I've really enjoyed this conversation, Scott. I don't know much
about this, but you've given me some es which have
been very helpful for me to understand it a little
bit better and hopefully to my audience as well. I
want to thank you. Tell me about your company later.
How can folks get in touch with you? What do
you do? Want to give you a chance to just
talk about your work.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah, thank you very much for that.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
So later.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
As the leader in influencer marketing and social media management,
so we post millions of posts on social media. We
help some of the largest enterprises in the world do
data driven advertising and influencer activations on social media, so
they this really is the future of marketing is on
social and we're taking a very data driven approach. So
(09:27):
we're seeing firsthand as consumer sentiment shifts and user sentiment
around the band comes up. We can see the actual
data move from the post quantity investment dollars. If people
want to find us, it's later dot com. But a
really really interesting time to be in social media and
appreciate the chance to talk about it with y'all.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And you know, Scott, you can pull out this interview
down if you folks can go to our website tomorrow
Nightside on Demand anytime probably after two am tomorrow morning,
Nightside on Demand, if you would like, and you could
post this up on your website and maybe introduce some
of your followers and your brand influencers to this program.
(10:08):
We do this five nights a week, eight to midnight.
And you've been a really great guest. I'd love to
have you back anything.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
We'd love to We're in Boston, right down the road
from y'all. We'll definitely definitely share out. Yeah, well we'll
share out on our side as well, but always happy
to have a conversation and support Boston.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Thanks so much, God go Boston. All right, when we
get back, we're going to change topics. We're going to
look back at the fate of a couple of generals,
Douglas MacArthur and a general, a little lesser known general,
Jonathan Mayhew Wainwright. Interesting book, The Fate of the Generals.
It's out as of April first. Those of you who
(10:49):
are historians are going to love this. Next guest, we'll
be back on night Side right after this.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
If you're on Night Side with Dan Ray, I'm w
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
All Right, we have I think a book that it's
going to fascinate a lot of my listeners. It's called
The Fate of the Generals. MacArthur Wainwright in the epic
Battle for the Philippines, details the story of two World
War Two generals who both received the Medal of Honor
through contrasting means of leadership with us. As Jonathan Horn,
(11:21):
author and former White House speech writer for George W.
Bush w as we would say, Jonathan Horn, welcome to nightside.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
How are you, thanks so much for having me tonight.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
You're very welcome. Wainwright is obviously less known than MacArthur,
so let's talk about what Waynwright went through. And I'm
also I realized my dad spent two and a half
years in China, Burman, India during World War Two, and
I remember lots of talk about General Stillwell, Joe Stillwell,
(11:55):
and he doesn't make your book. I'm interested. It is
the story all around the Battle for the Philippines, as
the title would imply, and that's why it's Wayne Wright
and MacArthur.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Well, you know, so many of us remember that famous
vow that Douglas mccarthur made I shall return, and he
said those words after being ordered to evacuate the Philippines
at the start of World War two when the Japanese invaded,
and he left behind his army to starvation and eventually
to surrender. And as you said, we've forgotten the story
(12:27):
of the general who stayed and had to become the
highest ranking prisoner of war of World War two, and
that is Jonathan Mayhew Wainewright. And he also made a vow,
and his vow was to stay with his men whatever
the cost, and to share their fate if necessary, as
the highest ranking prisoner of war. And I think you
(12:48):
can't understand MacArthur's vow to return unless you understand the
vow of the general who vowed to stay. So these
two vows need to be in the same book. And
still well, of course, what was was the man in
China and Burma, and he had a very frustrating experience
during World War two. He's not part of this story, sure,
because it is focused on on the Philippines and MacArthur's
(13:12):
attempt to return.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
So now MacArthur the better known okay uh, And of
course MacArthur ends up with with a problem with Truman
in Korea, and eventually uh Is is basically, I guess,
not discharged, but but but he he basically has to
comply with what the civilian leadership said during the Korean War.
(13:36):
Did did MacArthur want to lead? Tell me why? Why
did one leave in the other and the other stay?
What's the what's the story behind that? I'm sure that's
the critical nature of the book.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
That's a great question. And the answer is MacArthur received
orders from President Roosevelt to leave the Philippines. He was
prepared to die if necessary there, but the thinking in
Washington was MacArthur was too important to go down with
the ship, if you can believe it, because he's become
a symbol for what it was so hard to find
in the world in nineteen forty two. In early nineteen
(14:11):
forty two, because at that time it looked like the
Japanese were just succeeding everywhere they went, and the only
place that Americans could see evidence of resistance was the Philippines.
And because MacArthur was in charge of the radio, when
you know the power of the radio, all the communicators
out of the Philippines mentioned one guy, and that was MacArthur,
so he was thought to be too valuable to let
(14:32):
go down with the ship, and Wainwright took over.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So waine Wright ends up captured with the as surrender.
I guess the troops surrender, correct.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
Correct, And in fact, tomorrow is the anniversary of the
surrender of Batan, which is the largest surrender in American history.
Nearly eighty thousand forces surrendered on April ninth, nineteen forty
two in the Philippines or United States forces.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Is the Death March of Batan.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
That is the Death March. Wainwright fights the one for
one more month on the nearby island of Krigador, and
then he'll have to ultimately surrender and also surrender all
the Philippine islands, which were back then most people forget
they were an American colony at the time.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Sure, so, Wainwright is a pow, highest ranking pow in
the history of the United States Armed Forces.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
He was certainly the highest of World War Two. He
was a lieutenant general when he was taking pow. And
he you know, the Japanese did not treat prisoner as
well they as many American commanders learned in the Pacific.
The Japanese themselves did not believe in surrender, and they
had no respect for those who did surrender. So Wainwright
will face systematic starvation. He will be beaten and tortured,
(15:49):
and the Japanese will try to use him for propaganda,
and of course they isolate him in ways that really
are in himself torture.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Well, a lot of the POWs in Vietnam saw that
as well, well McCain and others who are held prisoner
of war during the Vietnam War. So how does we
know how the story ends for macarthy? He returns, he
gets a lot of the glory and eventually is in
charge in Korea and defies Truman, and Truman brings him
(16:18):
to heal. How does it end for Waynwright?
Speaker 5 (16:21):
Well, Wayne Wright will spend the rest of the war
as a prisoner. In fact, the Japanese move him around.
They bring him from the Philippines to Taiwan and eventually
all the way to Manchuria. Wainwright will face negative forty
nine degree temperatures. I mean, this really uses a story
of survival in addition to courage and sacrifice. And in
the end of the war he is eventually taken out
(16:45):
of prison and If you look at the photo of
MacArthur on the USS Missouri at the end of the war,
you will see Wainwright standing behind him and MacArthur will
hand him one of the pens he uses to sign
the instrument of surrender.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Wow. What a great story or what a great book.
The book has come out on April first, so it's
available right now, Jonathan.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Right April fifteenth, next week, but it's available for pre
order wherever books are sold.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Oh, okay, okay. The fate of the generals Macartha, Wainwright
and the epic Battle for the Philippines. So let me
tell you. Why was last question? Why did the Japanese
spare Wayne Wright's life? I mean they they could have
killed them. How was it American troops that found him
(17:32):
in Manchuria? How did that or was it Chinese troops
who were our ally at the time that that liberated
him in Manchuria?
Speaker 5 (17:40):
You know, that's a fabulous question. And people in Washington
were really worried what the Japanese might do to Wayne
right as the war was ending, So a special OSS
team was sent to go find Wainwright. The OSS, being
the precursor to the CIA, was sent to go land
and jump into Manchuria and find Wainwright, and they did
locate him, and ultimately he left that prison if you
(18:02):
can believe it with Soviet troops who were coming through
Manchuria themselves.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, no, it doesn't. That does not surprise me at all.
But that's a that's a great story to learn in
the book as well, Jonathan. I really enjoyed it very
very much, and keep us posted on your other other books.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Would like to keep in touch with you, okay, and
thank you so much for having me on tonight. I
enjoyed the conversation.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Well, I hope that this book becomes This is a
This is a great book. This is a book when
I think of Father's day books for fathers or grandfathers,
this is the one, folks that I think, if you
give it to your grandfather, if he happened to be
a World War Two veteran, or are you whatever, the
(18:45):
Fate of the Generals, this is one I'm going to read.
Thanks Jonathan very much. Jonathan Horne, the author of the
Fate of the Generals, MacArthur Wainwright and the Epic Battle
for the Philippines. Thanks again, I really enjoyed this conversation.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
Jonathan, thank you too.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
When we get right after the news at the bottom
of the hour. Right here in WBZ Boston's news radio,
and by the way, we are in iHeart radio station.
You can easily pull down the new and improved iHeart
app and you can put us on make us your
number one presets, So we will only be a fingertip away.
Three sixty five, twenty four to seven. We're going to
follow up with the first robot assisted live liver transplant
(19:24):
at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. We'll be talking with
doctor Martin Dibbs. So follow up to a conversation we
had about a week ago, and I think you're going
to be fascinated by this part of the story. Back
on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
It's night Side on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Well, about a week or so ago, we had a
very interesting conversation, and to be really honest with you,
I probably was so interested in the macro conversation that
I didn't focus on what we really needed to talk
about that night. So I am delighted, someone embarrassed, but
delighted to welcome back Dr Martin Dibbs. He's the surgeon
(20:05):
involved in a procedure the first liver transplant that involved
the first robot assisted live liver transplant. Doctor Dibbs, welcome back.
I appreciate you joining us because the questions your answers
were so fascinating I just lost track of the time.
(20:27):
Thanks so much for coming back.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
And thank you so much for your interest and support
spreading the word.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So how tell us how a Well, most of us
are a little skeptical of robots. Okay, if I was
going to have a liver transplant, I probably would be
looking for doctor Martin Dibbs or someone of your caliber,
and you know robots, maybe not. How long? When when
(20:57):
were robots first considered and and how long does it
take to get them from the first consideration to where
we are today?
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Yeah, so robotic surgery has been here since year two thousand,
so there has been over twenty years of robotic surgery
in the world. First was in France in year two
thousand and then in the US in year two thousand
and three. What it means is that you have a
(21:30):
robotic surgical system that helps the surgeon do exactly what
we would do open with a big incision, but with
small incisions, And it's kind of similar to what people
you know about laparoscopic surgery, that we go inside the
(21:51):
abdomen with a camera and then we do everything we
would do open but with small incisions. But the robot
gives us the possibilit of having better instruments, so it
has better visualization and better ergonomics and angulation of the
instruments to be able to do more complex procedure but
(22:14):
with minimally invasive and small incisions as opposed to the
big incisions.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
So is it fair to say, I just know I
do not want to either downplay or overstate the importance
of the robotic aspect. Is it Is it fair to
say that the the robot's role is really to provide insight.
(22:42):
Is the robot doing the procedure or is the robot
in effect acting as the guide and telling the doctors okay,
it's okay here. We got to go here because the
robotic insertion of the instruments by the and the camera
by the robot gives you a look at the area
(23:03):
that's being worked on more effectively than it would be
without the robot. Or does the robot actually do part
of the procedure.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
No, the robot doesn't do the procedure. It's not controlling
the robot. It is a good question because people tend
to think that is the robot actually telling us what
to do. Is actually the opposite. So we have a
console that is right next to the to the patient,
(23:30):
and we have a surgeon in the console controlling all
the arms of the robot, and then there's a surgeon
that is at the bedside basically assisting with all the
instrumentation at the bedside. So it's always a two surgeon
at least two surgeon case and the robot.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Now, but everyone's in the same operating room, right, It's
not when you say the patient is at the it's
not as if they were in the same operating room.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Right in the same operating room. And we are all
planning to keep it like that and not necessarily do
surgeries from overseas because that wouldn't necessarily be safe at
least with the current technology.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Okay, So no remote surgeries, okay now, and this is
the first one here in Boston. Has it been used
since the first one or yes?
Speaker 4 (24:35):
So just to explain that robotic surgery has been used
for over twenty years in the US, but mostly it
has been for urology procedures or colorectal surgery or hernias,
but liver surgery has was one of the last ones
to adapt the technology given the complexity of the operations. Yes,
(25:00):
and so in the past five years in the world,
we have been doing more liver surgery with the robot
and we have learned how to really take advantage of
that surgical system to be able to get better visualization
and do more complex procedures.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
So leaving Donnor, Yeah, so you said again you use
the word visualization. Is the liver and I interrupted you,
and I apologize for that. So let me just finish
the question which I shouldn't have started and interrupted you.
Is the liver more inaccessible some of the other procedures
that you talk about, are they more accessible in the
(25:43):
liver because of his position within the body less accessible
to the surgeon without the assistance of the robot.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
The accessibility of the liver is pretty similar to the
other organs. But the complexity of liver surgery includes the
fact that we need to do a lot of vascular work,
so the liver is full of vessels and in this case,
for for example, what we talked last week about leaving
(26:15):
donor liver transplant. We need to make sure that the
donor has perfectly functional liver at the end and that
the other behalf of the liver that goes to the
recipient will be completely viable. So the complexity is high,
and that's why we have been slow to adapt this technology.
(26:39):
But over the past five years it has been really
crucial to do more and more complex surgeries minimally invasive.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
And when you started your career as a surgeon, did
you anticipate that there would be, you know, a robotic
aspect of it sometime or has the future arrived more
quickly than you would have anticipated.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Way more quickly. I started my career as a surgeon
here in Boston, and the technology at that point was
very very was barely starting. But right now we can
see that the robotic techniques and surgery has been increasing
(27:28):
so much that in fact, now the robotic surgical devices
are giving you feedback on how much pressure you're putting
in the tissue, and they're going to be advancing more
and more to be able to do less incisions and do,
for example, robotic surgery with only one small incision as
(27:49):
opposed to four, and so I think that this is
here to stay and it has definitely allowed us to
do complex dream with a faster recovery and better cosmesis
better outcomes and people get getting back to a regular
life again.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
It's always amazing to talk with you, doctor Dibbs. I
really appreciate you doing a second time with me, and
again thank you for what you and your colleagues do
for us, for people, for humanity every day of the week.
Not many of us can have the impact the individual
(28:31):
impact that you have in the lives of individuals and
also on their families and their circle of friends and
God blessing and thank you for what you do.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Thank you so much for your interest. I really think
that this makes an impact on patients that are waiting
for liver transcend. If we do more living donors and
people are on the wait list waiting for organs, the
fact that they know that we can do living donor's
(29:00):
minimum invasive will increase their likelihood of donating. And also
for liver tumors and liver cancer. The fact that we're
doing this surgeries with faster recovery and meaningly invasive is definitely.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Going to be.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Something that will benefit many patients, so really appreciate your health.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Well, we appreciate you, folks, Thanks so much, Doctor Martin
Dibbs of the best Beth Israel Deaconus Medical Center. We
will be back on Nightside and we're going to talk
about something very different, and that is the one hundred,
one hundred greatest golfers in the history of the game.
The Masters starts later this week, so we're going to
talk about one hundred greatest Masters, not those who competed
(29:45):
to the Masters, but the hundred greatest golfers.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Coming back on Nightside, Night Side with Dan Ray on
WBS Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Well, the Master starts this Thursday and is a it's
a cold night in Boston, but hopefully by Thursday it
will warm up a little bit down in Georgia when
they start, they start the Master's tournament with us to
talk about it. As an author and sportswriter who contributes to,
amongst other places, of the New York Times in the
Washington Post, Michael Arkush, Michael Arkush, welcome to night Side.
(30:19):
How are you.
Speaker 6 (30:20):
I'm great? How are you just fine?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
The hundred greatest golfers. Now, I've known some golfers uh
and primarily senior golfers. A couple of buddies of mine
played on the senior Tour, so uh pretty uh well, uh,
I'll tell you some time off here. Okay, but was
(30:45):
there was there was But he might have pitched for
the Yankees who went on the Senior Tours. A golfer
Ralph Terry.
Speaker 7 (30:51):
Yeah, sure, yeah, and he he didn't make a lot
of money in the Senior Tour, but he was, you know,
such a talented athlete to become a major League baseball
player pitcher for the Yankees, and but his.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
First love was golf. And so through him, I got
to meet a lot of the Chichie Rodriguez era guys
on the tours. Chi Chi on the this Chichi making.
Speaker 6 (31:13):
No no no Chechi. I'll tell you, though we missed Chichi,
we miss characters in the game like camp. He was
so much fun to watch. I was fortunate to cover
the Senior Tour for golf Old magazine in the late nineties,
and uh, nobody, nobody has been more entertaining than Chichi Rodriguez.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah. He sort of brought a joy de viverra to
the game that maybe uh was before that was missing.
But that that that's uh, that's neither here ner there,
let's u. I was interested and I've looked here, and
I didn't realize that number one hundred was a guy
from Ireland who won the US Open before Francis Woman.
I was unaware of him.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
No, he was John McDermott. He won the Open opened
back to back and at nineteen years old to do
this day, he's still the youngest player to win the
US Open. It's a really tragic story. I'll try to
sort of condense it a little bit. Is that he
collapsed to his pro shop a couple of years later
and wound up. His family wound up sending him to
(32:12):
a psychiatric hospital where he spent much of his life.
But in nineteen seventy one, at the US Open and Marion,
he was sort of ushered out of the pro shop
by an assistant pro had no idea who he was,
but at that moment Arnold Palmer walked in and saw
that and he was McDermott was Arnold Palmer's guest the
rest of the week. How about that?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
A great story. The other guy in the Senior Tour
who won the British Open, Bruce Vaughn who was never
on the PGA Tour, but on the senior tour as
a fella from Ralph Terry's hometown. Ralph taught and played
to play golf at the age of twenty. And when
the British the Senior British Open, not the British Open,
(32:56):
the Senior British Open. Okay, so you're not going to
tell who's number one, obviously, I'm going tell you will, Okay, Hey.
Speaker 6 (33:03):
Of course you know it's out it's out there. Drum roll.
Do you have a drum roll?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
I don't, but I go there.
Speaker 6 (33:10):
That's pretty good. I'll think it's Jack Nicholas. Jack Nicholas.
By the way, Jack Nipples did not win eighteen majors.
He won twenty. Everyone says eighteen, but I'm counting the
US Amateur in fifty nine and sixty one, which were
counted for years. When he won in eighty six and Augusta,
everybody said this is Jack's twentieth major, and somebody, I
don't think it was you, Okay, I'm not sure took
(33:33):
those two away and he suddenly has eighteen. I'm giving
them back. I'm restoring those two.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Well, good for you, that's good So when is Tiger
fall here? Because you know number two, number two, number two, okay,
so Arnold's got to be pretty close. Arnold's number five, okay.
So now I got to figure out who's between Arnold.
So we get maybe Ben Hogan and Sam Sneain three
or four?
Speaker 6 (33:55):
You got one, right, Hogan's at number four. Who's number three?
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Man? Well your testing me here? Let me Modernvy hand
on jiv hand.
Speaker 6 (34:06):
He played in nineteen twenties. He would star in the
nineteen twenties.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Nineteen twenties, just before my time.
Speaker 6 (34:15):
Just a little bitfore your time, right, yeah, Bobby Jones,
Oh sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
I should have figured that. I mean, that's that's that.
If I was thinking right, I would have I understand that.
Did you have number six? You have a female golfer?
Speaker 6 (34:28):
Mickey right? Mickey right. It's amazing. I talked to people
and they go, who's Mickey right? And I can't believe it.
She was incredible, eighty to wins thirteen majors. There was
a four year stress in the early sixties. She won
forty four times, pretty much scaled back at the age
of thirty four or otherwise would have won ninety maybe
a hundred tournaments.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah, and some of these great female athletes, as I'm
sure you know. You know Teddley Albright who was a
figure skating Olympian champion and from Boston was a surgeon.
You know, after her career as a figure skater, what
did Ricky write do with the rest of her life?
Speaker 6 (35:09):
I mean, you know, she was really gave very few interviews,
by the way, and did not play that much golf. Yeah,
she was very very reclusive in a way, but she
had injuries earlier on as well. Ben Hogan said that
she had the greatest swing ever male or female, and
that's saying something to come from Ben Hogan.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Wow, boy, that's that's sure, is okay? So let's talk
about the modern day golfers. The guys will be keep
competing this weekend down to the Masters. Who's the top
rank you know, from your perspective in your.
Speaker 6 (35:42):
Book, Rory McElroy number twenty five, and Rory I believe
if he wins the Masters. I haven't done the exact numbers,
but ORI's four or five spots in the rankings. It's
incredible that he has not won a major since twenty fourteen.
If you had told me in twenty fourteen. He's not
going to win one for ten more years. I would
I don't know how much money I would have put
(36:03):
on that. That's insane. He's in his mid thirties now,
time is beginning to run out a little bit. He's
got to add a few more to his legacy.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Wow, this is how long did it take you to,
you know, to do to pull this book together?
Speaker 6 (36:21):
A long time. I started in this nineteen twelve no.
I started in two thousand, in the fall of twenty
twenty one, and it took me roughly three years. I
read every single article on Golf Digest from nineteen fifty on.
I know I'm insane. You can say that, and I read.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Don't worry about it.
Speaker 6 (36:41):
A lot of us are exactly this a long group, exactly,
but I read. I read it close to one hundred books,
did hundreds of interviews. I watched YouTube. You know you
watch YouTube too much. You watch these tournaments and go
into a rabbit hole. It's very scary. Yeah, but I
watched tons of tournaments.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Okay, let let me throw a couple more names at you.
You know, younger guys right now, Mikekelson and Travino they
got to be there at some point.
Speaker 6 (37:06):
Yeah, Trevino's number is fifteen. Trevino is incredible. I mean,
he grew up with nothing and he made so much
of himself hard work and one of the great ball
strikers of all time. Phil Micholson is number thirteen. Phil
Ncholson has six majors. He should have eight or nine
maybe more. Became too aggressive, too off and threw a
few majors away. It's you know, a lot of guys.
(37:29):
Tell you, a lot of guys in this book did
not live up to the expectations that we the press had,
even though they had great careers.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Okay, what about Gary Player.
Speaker 6 (37:37):
Gary Player's number two eleven, Gary Player nine time, nine majors,
only non American to win the Grand Slam, eighty nine
years old. You're going to see him on Thursday, hit
the ceremonial t shot. He's going to look like he's
thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yeah. Well, you know, my understanding is to play. When
he was playing, he would never shake hands with his
right hand on the day of the tournament, that he
would only shake with his left hand because he didn't
want to have anybody grabbed the right hand and squeeze
the right hand.
Speaker 6 (38:04):
I don't know if you blame no.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
I don no, I don't, but I don't know if
that's legendary or whatever. But I was told that by
a pretty good source, Michael. I really enjoyed this conversation.
The book The Golf one hundred is spirited ranking of
the greatest players of all time that's available. It's out
as of April first, twenty twenty five Amazon. If you
got a golfer in your family, think about Father's Day
(38:26):
coming up. This would be the perfect gift for a golfer.
Michael ash Arkush, thank you so much for your time
and love to get you back. We could talk more.
Speaker 6 (38:37):
I look forward to it. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Thanks Michael. All Right, when we get back, we're going
to get to the matters at hand. For the evening.
There was some late news today that we mentioned Christin
who is not going to run for US Senate seat
in New Hampshire. I unfortunately, we're gonna We're gonna talk, however,
about the Karen Reid case and has anyone changed their mind?
(39:00):
And I guess there are people who have switched from
one side to the other and it's caused some controversy.
We will explain right after the break. Here for the
nine o'clock news
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