May 27, 2025 • 40 mins
In this NightSide News Update we chatted with:
Alan Arnette, a mountaineer and climbing coach with over 30 years climbing experience – Discussing challenges climbing Mt. Everest and the cost.
Dr. Rebecca Robbins, a sleep expert and researcher at Mass General Brigham and Harvard Medical School - Discussing how hitting the snooze button might not be in your best interest!
Dr. David Hill, member of the Lung Association's National Board of Directors, immediate past chair of the Northeast Regional Board of the American Lung Association, and a practicing pulmonary and critical care physician - Discussing the results from the 2025 “State of the Air” report done by the American Lung Association.
John Judge, CEO of Scouting Boston - Discussing Scouting America and Scouting Boston name change and upcoming event honoring two outstanding supporters.
You can hear NightSide with Dan Rea, Live! Weeknights From 8PM-12AM on WBZ NewsRadio on the #iHeartRadio app!
Alan Arnette, a mountaineer and climbing coach with over 30 years climbing experience – Discussing challenges climbing Mt. Everest and the cost.
Dr. Rebecca Robbins, a sleep expert and researcher at Mass General Brigham and Harvard Medical School - Discussing how hitting the snooze button might not be in your best interest!
Dr. David Hill, member of the Lung Association's National Board of Directors, immediate past chair of the Northeast Regional Board of the American Lung Association, and a practicing pulmonary and critical care physician - Discussing the results from the 2025 “State of the Air” report done by the American Lung Association.
John Judge, CEO of Scouting Boston - Discussing Scouting America and Scouting Boston name change and upcoming event honoring two outstanding supporters.
You can hear NightSide with Dan Rea, Live! Weeknights From 8PM-12AM on WBZ NewsRadio on the #iHeartRadio app!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's nice eyes, Dan Ray, its ongoing you crazy Boston's
News radio, Susie.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And you are incredibly kind. Thank you very much. Here
you and I Susian working on Memorial Day.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
What's wrong with this picture? Thanks very much, Susan. My
name is Dan Ray. No is with us tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Rob is off, Marita was off today. But I'm here.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
You're there, and if you're heading on home or heading
off off the Cape or down from New Hampshire or wherever,
we'll keep your company.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I promise again.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
We'll be here from eight until midnight, going to talk
about during the nine o'clock I was some Memorial Day reflections,
maybe what you did today? Do you get to some
ceremonies out there? Do you remember a loved one? Going
to talk at ten o'clock tonight on why President Trump
seems unwilling to accept the concessions that have been made
(00:51):
by Harvard to him already. It's almost as if he
doesn't want to declare a victory and then we're going
to talk. How would you like it if your commencement
speaker was a puppet? That's what happened at the University
of Maryland. We'll get to all of that, but we
have four very interesting guests coming up.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Going to start off with Alan Arnette.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
He is a long time mountain climber and I have
never desired to climb Mount Everest, but I have stood
in awe of those who have attempted it, or in
the those who have actually summited the mountain. Alan, how
are you tonight? Welcome to night Side.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Hey, thanks for having me. Dan, Hey, that just shows
your superior intellect.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, I don't know about that.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Is there a list somewhere of the number of people,
obviously within recent memory who have actually summited.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Reached it's right at twelve thousand. There's been about twelve
thousand summits by about six thousand people. So in other words,
you have a lot of repeats, and typically those are
the shurpas that are working on the mountain.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Sure, yeah, and they're doing I'm talking about people who
have come there for once. Look, that is a more
exclusive club than people who have played Major League baseball.
It's about twenty five thousand people going back the last
one hundred or so years, one hundred and twenty years
who have played Major League baseball. So this is a
(02:20):
pretty exclusive group, and it's not for everyone. I guess
you would agree on that.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Qualified works.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
What do you have to do for if you're seriously
thinking of it, give me some ideas. If I said
to you, yeah, I'd like to climb evers, what would
you what would you suggest?
Speaker 5 (02:39):
Well?
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Number one is that you have to have experience on
lower mountains like a Denali or some seven thousand meters
mountains in South America like Akakagua. And the second you
have to have the physical fitness. I always say that
you have to be in Everest shape, not the dust
shape of your life, because that altitude is just makes
it so so difficult. And then third, most and probably
(03:01):
most important, is that you have to have mental toughness.
It's just too easy to give up if you don't
know why you're there, because it is it's a supper fest.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I have seen pictures of people who get up to
the top of Everest, and it looks to me like
it's a very small and dangerous point when you achieve
the summit. Am I being misled? Have I looked at
it different incorrectly?
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Now?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
It's about the size. It's about the size of an
average you know, maybe living room in a house in
the US. But you know, you can come up from
either the Tibet side or from the Nepal site, and
both of those routes obviously meet at the summit. But
the biggest issue that you have to worry about is
wind chill. It can be twenty degrees below zero, and
(03:47):
if you have a three mile an hour wind, that
can be a minus thirty wind chill. So you know,
you wear a down suit and you have special boots
and gloves and goggles. So as the saying goes, there's
no bad weather, there's only that gear.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
So and as you're going up, it's you have to
I assume also at different times use axes or some
tools to get up. I mean it's not like you're
walking up a trail or something like that.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Right, Well, there is a because of the number of
people in the mountain. In fact, we're just wrapping up
this spring season and there will be about five hundred
and fifty people who have summoned over the last two weeks.
So as a result, there's what's called a boot path
that you basically a trench in the snow, and you
don't really need the two handled ice axes because you're
(04:38):
not climbing a vertical wall. The steepest sections are probably
sixty degrees, and you're going using a fixed rope. It's
a thin nylon rope about the size of your finger,
and you attach a mechanical device called an as cinder
that has teeth on it, so if you fall, the
teeth will dig into the rope and keep you from
falling further.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
It sounds it sounds like a Harrold experience. I mean,
what is the average length of time to go from
the base camp to the top? I mean, in reasonable conditions,
and I guess none of the conditions are truly reasonable.
But how long does it take the average hiker who's
(05:20):
going to Summit to summits?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
A couple of days at least or more.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Well, this has changed dramatically over the years. So there's
two parts of that question. One is how long does
an average expedition take?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And this year there was.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
A team from the UK that did it in one week,
but typically it lasts around four to six to eight weeks.
Traditionally it was two months, but there are techniques now
people are using to shorten that now. But your question
specifically is how long does it take to go from
base camp to the summit, and that's a multi day effort.
You go from base camp to Camp two, where you
(05:53):
spend two nights, then you go to Camp three where
you spend the night. Then you go to Camp four
where you spend about twelve hours, and then you take
about anywhere from fifteen to twenty four hours to go
from the high camp to the summit and back to
the high camp, and then you take go back down
the camp too, which is another day, and then back
down to base camp. So all in all, it's about.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
A week and you're in tough conditions. Why is it?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
This is it that our spring, you know here in
the US, seems to be the best season for climbing.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
I love that you asked that question because I'm just
fascinated by this. Mount e Versus is so tall at
twenty nine thousand feet that had put the summit pokes
into the jet stream, and you know that's the winds
that are going one hundred and fifty hundred miles an hour,
and that jet stream is present on Everest throughout the
entire year except for two short windows, one in the
spring and one in the fall. The one in the
(06:46):
spring is when everybody climbs it because that's when it's
the warmest. The one in the fall is typically a
little colder. But there are cyclones that build up in
the Bay of Bengaul around May May fifteenth, and this
has been consistent since nineteen fifty three, and those cyclones
will create a low pressure or a pressure system that
pushes the jet stream off of the summit just for
(07:07):
about two weeks, and then it goes away and the
jet stream comes back. So that's why everybody goes at
the same time.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
It's unbelievable when people do reach the summit and they
and they dissent. Is there some sort of This is
a dumb question, but I get paid good money to
our stuff. Questions are you given some sort of a souvenir,
a metal, a plaque. I kind of imagine a more
(07:38):
harrowing experience. Most of us could voluntarily subject ourselves during
our lifetime, and you have to have something you could show.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
I assume you know it's a fascinating subject. Because mountaineering
is a sport that has no rules. Everybody does it
on their own way, and there's no trophy, there's no reward,
there's no mento. You might get a summit certificate from
the government, and that's about it. But you do come
home with immense pride for what you did, knowing that
(08:08):
you've done something that a few other people have done,
and depending upon what your reason was. I climbed to
honor my mother, Ida, who died from Alzheimer's, and for
me being able to honor her from the summit of a
Mount Everest was the most important thing I ever did
in my life.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Do people bring things with them to leave in the summit?
I would hope not.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Yeah, you're not supposed to technically, but a lot of
people will bring pictures of loved ones, or they'll bring
a little momento and just set it on the summit.
It doesn't stay there very long because it's so windy.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
The window just blown away.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Yeah, wow wow.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
And what got you involved? Was it just in memory
of you mom? Or was this something that you had
thought about before and when she passed you decided what
better way.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
To honor her?
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Yeah? It started when I came to Colorado as a
twelve year old and saw the mountains, but I put
that away until I was thirty eight, and then I
started climbing. My first big peak was Mont Blanc in Europe,
and then I did a tract to Everage base Camp,
and then I did a major expedition every year for
the next thirty five years.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And Dan is just.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Something that gets inside of you. Often say that if
you fall in love with mountaineering, it's an expense of
addiction for which there is no cure.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, and I in reading my prep here for this interview,
I guess it's it can be thousands, tens of thousands
of dollars if you're going to do it properly in
the company of guides and things like that. This is
not something that you do.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
On a lark.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
I often just make it really simple and say it's
the price of a car, and it can be it
can be a Ugo, or it can be a Mercedes.
The median price this year at twenty twenty five was
around fifty thousand dollars. If you went with an Apoly company,
a Scherpa owned company. If you went with an American
company or an Austrian or a New Zealand com company,
(10:00):
that medium price jumps to seventy five thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Wow, I've learned more about Mount Everest than in this
t ten minutes or so than I ever learned before.
Who was the first person was it? Who was the
first person who climbed Everest?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:23):
It was on Tempany Norgay he was and it was
a key Lea from New Zealand, Sir Edmund Hillary, and
they were with a British expedition and.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Sir Edmund Hillary, if I'm not mistaken, did that sometime
in like nineteen fifty.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Two, right, fifty three?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, fifty three. And I believe that Hillary Clinton had
made the comment at some point that she had been
named after Sir Edmund Hillary, but she was born a
few years before he achieved.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Trimy. I haven't heard that.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
True, Oh true, she said, she said that when she
was ready for presid as she was caught in I
guess we would call it a biographical error.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Yeah, interesting, Alan, I.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Really enjoyed this conversation. How could folks get more information?
I know you have a blog here that we I'd
love to have you give you the opportunity to publicize.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Thanks, Just go to my website as Alan Arnett dot
com is a l A n A r n e
t t e dot com all one word and from
there this links to go to my consulting business, into
my blogging, to my coverage amount Everston more things than
you ever wanted to know about me.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Well, let me tell you that's it's a great name.
Reminds me of running back for the Rams in the
nineteen fifties. John Aren't played at USC and then at
the Rams. You can look it up a different spelling
than your name he had. You got a couple of
extra letters there, probably related Alan, Thank.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You so much.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
All right, thanks day appreciated likeadbye. All right, we get back.
We're going to talk about sleep, your sleep with a
sleep expert from Mass General Brigham and Harvard Medical School,
doctor Rebecca Robbins. We've got a good lineup of guests
for you tonight. Trust me stay with us.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news Radio.
It's night Side with Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
All right, welcome back everyone. We're joined by doctor Rebecca Robbins.
She's a sleep expert at the Mass General Brigham and
also at Harvard Medical School. Now, doctor Robbins, I like
sleep a lot, but I'm not a sleep expert and
as I understand it, uh, we're going to talk this
(12:52):
evening about those of us who like to get an
extra ten minutes or so.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Sleep when we wake up.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Naturally, not a great idea, dear, as signis, did that
good evening and welcome?
Speaker 7 (13:03):
Thank you so much for having me. Great to be
with you.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
So those of us, I don't hit the snooze button.
I just fall back to sleep and wake up twenty
minutes later. I have an internal clock, I hear, but
it's it's the same principle, correct.
Speaker 7 (13:17):
Mm hmm, that's right. This paper that came out this week.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
We're so excited.
Speaker 7 (13:22):
It's really interesting because this area of research is very
kind of limited. Not many people have looked at using
this snooze alarm, and it sounds like something so trivial,
but believe it or not, our research found that in
among the users of a very popular sleep tracking application,
a smartphone app that individuals will use to track and
monitor their sleep and also as an alarm in the morning,
(13:45):
we found that in the individuals that are tracking their sleep,
over fifty percent of every sleep session that was logged
on the app ended in a snooze button. And what
we're referring to is one alarm going off and then
another alarm being pressed is set four or five ten
minutes to go off again after that first alarm, and
we refer to this as snoozing or using the snooze alarm. Now, unfortunately,
(14:10):
that sleep that you might get in between that first
alarm going off and your snooze alarm is not very
good quality sleep because that first alarm often will wake
us up from sometimes the most restorative sleep of the
night because rapid ims mid sleep predominates in the second
half of the night, and if we're not getting enough
sleep and that first alarm wakes us up before we're
(14:33):
kind of we've gotten what we need for the night.
You might be in this vital stage and you might
feel like you need a little bit more sleep and
reach for that snooze alarm, but if you do fall
back asleep again, it's likely going to be low quality
or poor quality sleep. So the best thing is to
set your alarm for the latest possible time and doing
(14:54):
your best to get out of bed at that time.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Okay, now, now you are with the division of sleep
as you can disorders medicine at Brigham A Women's Hospital,
and you're an expert on this. I was surprised to
find out that most of the snooze alarm activity was
not on weekends. It was during the week which to
(15:18):
me seems counterintuitive that when that alarm goes off in
the morning, you got to get to work, you got
to get the day going. The time to hit his
snooze button is on Saturday or Sunday, But it seems
as if the practice was just the reverse.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
What's going on with that?
Speaker 7 (15:33):
You know, I see what you're saying, but you know, interestingly,
we just found that there was much less use of
the snooze alarm on the weekend. And I think because
people aren't setting on alarms, many of us have the
luxury of being able to wake up maybe when our
kids wake us up, or when our dog wakes us up,
when we wake up naturally and we don't have to
worry about an alarm to get us out of bed,
or you know, even the snooze alarm reaching for that
(15:53):
in the afternoon after that first alarm goes off. So
we did indeed find the most snooze alarm youth between
Monday and Friday mornings, and we found on average, it's
not a long period of time, but individuals are snoozing
on average for about eleven minutes, which again can seem
a little bit trivial. But if we do the math,
if you're snoozing every day for anywhere between ten and
(16:14):
fifteen minutes, that catches up pretty or gets pretty quickly
to about an hour of sleep. That would is really
kind of low quality or poor sleep. And so if
we all commit to setting our alarm, say you have
to get to work at eight o'clock, it takes you
thirty minutes to get there, it takes you thirty minutes
to get ready. Okay, seven o'clock would be your alarm,
(16:36):
But if there's any way to maybe get everything you
need to do to get ready and out the door
done a little bit faster, there's any way to set
a little bit later alarm and commit to not snooze.
Think about that. That could be ten or fifteen minutes
more each and every night, and for many of us,
that could be a lifeline if you're not getting enough sleep.
(16:57):
That supports all of the very rich and nuanced areas
of our lives that are impacted by our sleep.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Okay, so here's a question. This is sort of off
we're going to talk about. I'm a big proponent of
power naps. I got up at five point thirty this morning,
had to drive back to where we live, spent ninety
minutes in the car, and this afternoon decided to watch
a little bit of the Red Sox game, and I said,
you know what, you need a little power nap here.
(17:26):
So I sent my clock for forty five minutes. Got
a great forty five minute power nap in the afternoon,
which I don't often do.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
But I am a huge believer because I got a.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Broadcast tonight until midnight and I have to stay awake
until the end of the show at least. Are you
a proponent of power naps under those circumstances or no?
Speaker 7 (17:48):
Absolutely, that was the perfect scenario. That was a perfect
storm for a little sleepiness in the afternoon. If I'm
hearing this correctly, yes, you were up earlier than usual.
You got, if I'm hearing this correctly, about five and
a half hour of sleep and far below what your
brain and body needs.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
I went to bed, No, and in all honesty, I
got I went to bed at nine thirty last night
and slept till five dies, so I got eight hours,
but I still really go to midnight.
Speaker 7 (18:13):
Was that earlier than usual, was five thirty earlier than.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Oh, yes, dramatically.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Earlier, usually up until twelve, up until one, and then
I sleep until maybe eight in the morning.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I am a seven hour.
Speaker 7 (18:26):
Person because of course you're working until twelve and you
need to unwind and get ready for bed. So I
think what might have been going on and what the
truth is. We talk a lot about sleep duration, getting
enough sleep, but believe it or not, the consistency of
our sleep is as important, if not more, And that
all comes down or comes back to a principle called
(18:47):
our circadian rhythm, and it's one of the driving forces
behind our sleep, and that system of hormones being secreted
or kind of retreating, and that all operates really in
this beautiful symphonic way, and our internal circuitry of our
circadian rhythm and those the hormones are associated with our
(19:09):
ability to know when we're tired when we should be alert,
though that process does not change on a dime. We
truly are not built to make sleeping changes to our
sleep schedules from one day to the next. So when
we find ourselves in a different sleep schedule than normal,
it is very common to maybe if you're falling asleep
or waking up earlier or lier than usual. That can
(19:31):
be challenging. If you're falling asleep or you know, or
if you're waking up earlier than usual, that can of
course cause some sleepiness, likely because you're probably not getting
enough sleep. And so in those circumstances when you're not
able to get enough sleep, or you find that you
have a schedule that is mismatched with your typical routine,
that can cause some sleepiness. And so I think it's
a terrific idea that you took a power nap and
(19:53):
that can pay back some of your what we call
sleep debt some of the basically when we take time
away from our sleep that doesn't dissipate into thin air,
and we refer to this as our sleep debt.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
And I'll bet you I'm going to be able to
stay awake until midnight tonight as a result.
Speaker 7 (20:09):
There we go, perfect strategy.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Then, how can folks get more information from you? There's
an article that you're referred to. Can we can you
direct folks to that?
Speaker 7 (20:20):
Yes, thank you so much. Was published in the journal
Scientific Reports. My colleagues and I are are excited that
that is out in the peer review literature, and it's
an open science journal, so you don't have to pay
for it. You can go right to them. If you
any any search engine, use the term Snooze Alarm and
Scientific Reports. You should be able to find the article
and you can find our research also at the Brigham
(20:41):
and Women's Hospital. We're in the division of Sleep and
Circadian Disorders.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Thank you so much, Doctor Rebecca Robins, thank you for
having me.
Speaker 7 (20:47):
It's great chat with you.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I love your enthusiasm. That's what's that's what's great.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
The people who I talked to us, it's just so
enthusiastic about exactly what they do, and I really it's
it's it's very obvious. Thank you, Thank you so much,
and that I'm sure makes you a great sleep expert.
We'll talk again.
Speaker 7 (21:04):
I hope you're very kind down. Thank you all my pleasure.
Thank you for having me. Great scouting with you.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Back, catch you bye bye. When we get back.
Speaker 8 (21:10):
Right after the news, we're going to talk about scouting Boston.
There are no more boy Scouts and Girl Scouts ht
Scouting Boston, and we're going to be talking with the
CEO of Scouting Boston, John Judge on the other side.
By the way, if you haven't pulled down the new
and improved iHeart app, do it now and make WBZ
your first preset, so we will only be a fingertip
away from you on whatever device you have us pulled
(21:32):
down on, wherever you might be in the world. Back
on Nightside, right after this.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Night Side with Ray, Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
All right, welcome back everyone. A little change in our line.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
If some of our guests sometimes kind of nod off,
I think so. We have been delighted to move up
in our batting order tonight. Doctor David Hill. He's a
member of the Lung Association's National Board, the American Lung
Association's National Board of Directors, immediate pasture of the Northeast
Regional Board of the American Lung Association, and a practicing
(22:09):
pulmonary and critical care physician, Doctor David Hill, you're pinch
hitting well, actually you're just moving up to batting number
third from cleanup.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
How are you this evening?
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Very well?
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Thank you, thanks very much.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Where do we find you tonight? Are you a local
guy in Boston? And we have you from somewhere in
a far flung part of this country, great country of ours.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
Not far away from the great state of Connecticut.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Oh, that's the Nutmeg State of course, next door neighbor, Okay.
So essentially we're always trying to get better air quality.
And as I understand it, at this point, about one
hundred and fifty six million Americans, many of whom are
on the East Coast, are living in areas that they
(22:55):
the air quality is not what it should be. Those
of us who grew up, you know, in this seventies
and the eighties, we remembered the smog of Los Angeles,
and that was the place where poor air quality was.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
So what's happened, Well, you know, a.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
Lot of this has to do with changing climate. We've
seen the wildfires of the last several years an issue
on the West coast, but a few years ago Canda
sending their smoke our way. And you know, over the
last couple of years, even here in the Northeast, there
have been significant wildfires, all of which lead to increased
(23:34):
particle pollution, which worsens air quality. And then they are
concerns about ozone pollution, which comes from automobile exhaust and
from factory pollution, and particularly here in the Northeast, that
pollution tends to travel up on the jet stream and
land around us. So all of those have led to
(23:55):
worsening air pollution definitely connected with warming climate and change
just due to that.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Now my sense and I live in Boston, I live
in New England. I'm a lifelong New England resident. My sense,
again it's non scientific, is that the ear that I'm
breathing is better today than it's been in the past.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Is that just a psychological.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Belief that I'm caring and that science would prove me wrong.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
I think that you know, the Cleaner Act has been
very successful.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
In nineteen sixty three, right.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
Right, improving certain forms of air pollution, but particularly ozone
pollution and particle pollution have been worsening more recently, and
the driving factor behind that being climate change and having
unhealthy air can be hard to detect, so we all
(24:56):
kind of feel it on hot, humid days. But here
in the Northeast with high traffic carters and with that
jet stream pollution that can that can be significant, and
by the time the air quality is bad, you may
not be aware of it, so it's.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Not not too much.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I guess that we can do about the wildfires in
the Great Canadian Northwest. How long does it take before
that bad ear to dissipate?
Speaker 5 (25:24):
It really depends on what's happening in local weather systems,
So it's important to pay attention to air quality. The
federal government has an AirNow dot gov site that you
can look up your local air quality and see what's
going on. There may be times of day that air
quality is better. It tends to be worse in the
(25:45):
hotter portions of the day when there's more traffic and
it's it's very variable depending on where you live.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
So okay, okay, So let me ask this for those
of us who are baby boomers, and I'm a baby boomer, Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Era did we breathe? Was the ear the.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Cleanest during our lives? So I'm talking about people who
were born post World War Two? Did the ear quality
get better after the Cleaner Act of sixty three and
then we've let it slide? How would you if you
would have put it on a spectrum for us? What
was the best decade? If there was a best, there
had to be a best or the least worst?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
When? When? When?
Speaker 3 (26:28):
When were we moving in the right direction? And when
did we stop moving in the right direction?
Speaker 5 (26:34):
You know, I think we were moving in the right
direction late late seventies and early eighties. Part of this
is us being aware of the science and knowing that
air quality levels we may have thought were safe in
the past, we know are more dangerous based on improving
scientific data. And definitely over the last several years, the
(26:57):
worsening air pollution has become a big issue. And I
think you're right to say, we can't control what happens
with Canadian wildfires, but we can do what we can
to minimize air pollution from other sources and minimalize activities
that are driving global warming and meeting to these fires occurring.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Okay, so let me ask you this is always my
toughest question, and that is this.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I look at the map of.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
The world and I look at us, and I see
that New England's like this little speck in the world.
And I know that there are countries all over the
world that have no controls like we have environmental controls India, Pakistan, China,
and probably a lot of countries that you know that
people haven't even heard of, Kazakhstan or whatever. How can
(27:45):
we win this battle if we, you know, do everything
we can here, But China, India, Pakistan and the other
big pollutas around the world don't get their act together
because it all, it doesn't just stay over those countries
that are big polluters, It migrates towards us.
Speaker 5 (28:06):
Well. I think it requires a combination of both national
action and international action. The model I talked about ozone
being a bad pollute net ground level ozone is good
up in the stratosphere, you know. So we came to
gather together internationally when the whole on uzone that level
was occurring to have international changes to help fix that.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
That closed up right that that actually has closed up
of the sun as I understand.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
That was international global action to deal with a global problem.
We've attempted that on a global level, you know, with
the Paris Accords and other action on climate. We haven't
been a successful one getting consensus, and we need to
work towards that consensus. And I think part of it
(28:57):
is leading by example, and part of it is by
pressuring our international partners to follow that lead, you know.
So it's you know, a complex situation, but I think
we can't look to the rest of the world to lead.
We need to be able leaders in progressing towards a
healthier planet.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, I hope that they will follow. I know when
I try to set good examples for my kids, sometimes
they followed that. Sometimes they didn't clean up your room,
you know, clean up, take your plates to the sink.
I find that sometimes as much as we might try,
it doesn't really work.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Doctor Hill.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Really enjoyed talking with you, and I would love to
get back and talk about the impact that this has
on diseases in this country and whether or not are
we're being any more successful fighting diseases that are you know,
lung diseases and other similar diseases. But I think we'll
(29:56):
save that for our next conversation.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
If that's okay, that sounds great. Look forward to talking
to you in the future.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Thank you very much, doctor David Hill. Remember the Lung
Association's National Board of Directors and Immediates Past Yere of
the Northeast Regional Board of the American Lung Association. Appreciate
your time to sevening, doctor Hill.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Thank you again, Thank you. Thanks.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
We'll be back for one final segment. And I don't
know if Noah has Las sued our prior guest or not.
Noah talked to me here do we have the prior
guest as he checked in, Okay, then we're working on
that even as we speak. The entire night Side staff
(30:37):
is working out on that right now. They have their
people across the country is alerted, and if not, I'll
be able to give you a little preview of what's
coming up tonight, beginning at nine o'clock and on for
the balance of the evening.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
So stay with us here on Nightside, coming right back.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
It's Night Side, Boston's News Radio. Hi, you're on night
Side with Dan Ray. I'm telling you Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
All right.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Well, our third guest, John Judge, the CEO of Scouting Boston,
is a no show tonight. Now that's a little disappointing,
but that can happen.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
We'll figure that out. That was confirmed for us earlier today.
Not my producer's fault, that is for sure, but not
a good not a good look.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
John.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
If you're out there tonight, many driving and I don't know,
I hope you're okay, hope nothing bad has happened to you.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
But that leaves us.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
With a few minutes here, and what I'm gonna do
is take advantage of that few minutes to just go
over what would what we're gonna do for the rest
of the night. During the eleven o'clock hour tonight, I
heard a story over the weekend which I thought was
really interesting. You know, you send your children off to college,
or or maybe you go after college yourself, and you
(32:01):
spend four years working very hard, and you're looking for
the graduation day when you're going to walk across the
stage and.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Get your ceremonial diploma.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
And whatever it is a Bachelor of Arts or a
Bachelor of Science, or I don't know, it could be
a master's or a doctorate. So you always are interested
who will be the person who who would speak at
your graduation, your commencement. Well, I read over the weekend
(32:30):
and found out that Kermit the Frog was the headliner
of this year at the University of Maryland's graduation ceremony.
We will talk about that later on tonight. Apparently the
University of Maryland has a connection with the late great
creator of the Muppets, Jim Henson, who was a graduate
(32:53):
in the class of nineteen sixty.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
So this would be.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
That this would have been his what forty sixty sixty
fifth year as a graduate of nineteen a graduate of
nineteen sixty, and they decided it was a good idea
to have Kermit the Frog join that commencement speech. So
we'll we'll talk about that later. And then at nine o'clock,
(33:26):
or rather the ten o'clock I going to talk about
Harvard University's fight with President Trump, or I should say
President Trump's fight with Harvard University, and there is a
I'm amazed that the President wants to pick this fight
and is not willing to accept the concessions that Harvard
has made. And the next hour, at nine o'clock, we
got to talk about your reflections on this Memorial Day.
(33:49):
A solid day, but a day in which we honored
the memory of a lot of American heroes. I'm told
by my producer, I believe he was talking in my ear. Noah,
do we have our guests? Our fourth guest, Okay, without
any further ado, we're going to go to John Judge.
He's the CEO of Scouting Boston. John, we almost missed you.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
How are you.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Great?
Speaker 6 (34:11):
Thanks Dan, Thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah. Well, we were supposed to talk to you at
eight thirty.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
What happened was it a miscommunication on our end or
what I.
Speaker 6 (34:20):
Just oh it was it was my fault. It's my
nine year old daughter's birthday and my in laws came
in and yeah, one thing led to another.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I gotcha. Okay, Well, thank you very much. Confession is
good for the soul, So thank you very much. But
we want to take whatever time we have left to
talk about Scouting Boston. You're the CEO of Scouting Boston.
There is no more Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. I
mean the terrain has changed, correct.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
Well, yeah they so, Boy Scouts of America is now
Scouting America. In that that's cub Scouts Scouts BSA, which
is the eleven to eighteen year old program which a
lot of people know culminates in the Eagle Scout rank.
And then there's a career program called Exploring, which is
(35:10):
very popular, especially the police Exploring, Exploring with different careers
including we've got a new aviation post at Logan Airport
with about twenty Chelsea High School students participating in that.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
So just to try to get a sense of this,
and I know I'm a little rushed here, which you
kind of understand. If a girl, if a young girl
wants to join Scouts. Is Girl Scouts still in existence
or is Girl Scouts in Boy Scouts now combined in
Scouting America.
Speaker 6 (35:40):
Now that's a great question. Girl Scouts is still in existence.
So Girl Scouts USA and then Scouting America went co
ed back in twenty fifteen twenty sixty, and.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
So therefore young girls could either affiliate with Girl Scouts
or they could also affiliate with Scouting of America.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
They have the.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Choice, that's right.
Speaker 6 (36:06):
Fact, girls are attaining the Eagle Scout rank, which is
really impressive for any teenager to get to. The girls
are doing it in about three years, while the boys
are taking an extra year to do it. So the
girls are coming in and really doing amazing work. That
(36:29):
we've got just about eight thousand young women who have
become Eagle Scouts far.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
So that either that proves girls are just smarter than
young boys at that age or the boys are just
goofing off of that. Yeah, but worth to go thatw
My understanding is one of the things you were going
to mention tonight was you're going to be recognizing two
community leaders at the forty fifth Annual Salute the Scout
in Gala.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
On June fourth.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Former Boston Police Commissioner Willie Gross, great friend, former Scout
Explorer leader, will be your master of ceremony and you
will be recognizing a couple of I think individuals here
in Boston, But the one that I probably would like
to mention is Bob Rivers. Also investments pioneer Amy Dumini.
(37:16):
But Bob Rivers is the president of Eastern Bank and
an Eastern Bank, I believe it has been very supportive of
UH Scouting Scouting Boston or Boston more more specific, but
I guess it's Scout. Yeah, it's Scouting Boston and UH
and and Bob and Eastern Bank have been big supporters
(37:39):
of your group. And you guys are going to honor
honor Bob Rivers. And I know him very well, and
so I want to make sure he gets a congratulations
from me. Tell us about your relationship with Bob Rivers
in Eastern Bank. Oh?
Speaker 6 (37:53):
Thanks, Bob, is you know he's an incredible community leader.
And when you think about, you know, the top three
corporations in terms of corporate social responsibility and the community
work that they do, the volunteerism that they do, I mean,
(38:13):
Eastern is at the top. Of any list. It's and
it's driven by Bob's cheer of Eastern Bank. You know,
he's a he's a stone Hill grad, Stonehill College grad.
He's a local guy and just never forgot, you know,
the community that he came from, and it certainly has
(38:36):
been very involved in the work of inclusion and access
working in cities. He's doing a lot of work now
in Brockton with that the new minor League.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
He's fought a little a.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Little bit of work with the Boston Rocks.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Will do me a favorite Bob as a dear friend,
and please tell him that that. I just wanted to
send Mike ngratulations on and also UH send I don't
know Amy uh Dominie, but I'm sure she epitomizes the
leadership and community service uh and values that are inherent
in the in the Scouting program.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
UH.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
And of course Willie Grosse is just an incredible individual.
Speaker 6 (39:17):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
And also himself grew up in the He led the
Boston Police Boy Scouts Explorer program.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
John.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
I hate to do this to you, but time tempest
has fugit. The temp is fugit, as the Latin has say,
and so we will have to you know, I hope
we've got a little bit here, but uh, we'll get
back to at some point and we won't hold this
against you for sure.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Okay, thanks very much.
Speaker 6 (39:42):
Getting your scouting Boston dot org. If you want ticket
or information.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Yeah, we're going to give you a demerit on your
your your attendance record, okay for being tardy. Those of
us who went to Boston Latin School back in the
day know what a demerit on our tarty list looks like.
So it's it's not you know, it can be a
rased at some point. Don't worry about it. Okay, thanks again, Joe,
It's nice eyes, Dan Ray, its ongoing you crazy Boston's
News radio, Susie.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And you are incredibly kind. Thank you very much. Here
you and I Susian working on Memorial Day.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
What's wrong with this picture? Thanks very much, Susan. My
name is Dan Ray. No is with us tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Rob is off, Marita was off today. But I'm here.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
You're there, and if you're heading on home or heading
off off the Cape or down from New Hampshire or wherever,
we'll keep your company.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I promise again.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
We'll be here from eight until midnight, going to talk
about during the nine o'clock I was some Memorial Day reflections,
maybe what you did today? Do you get to some
ceremonies out there? Do you remember a loved one? Going
to talk at ten o'clock tonight on why President Trump
seems unwilling to accept the concessions that have been made
(00:51):
by Harvard to him already. It's almost as if he
doesn't want to declare a victory and then we're going
to talk. How would you like it if your commencement
speaker was a puppet? That's what happened at the University
of Maryland. We'll get to all of that, but we
have four very interesting guests coming up.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Going to start off with Alan Arnette.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
He is a long time mountain climber and I have
never desired to climb Mount Everest, but I have stood
in awe of those who have attempted it, or in
the those who have actually summited the mountain. Alan, how
are you tonight? Welcome to night Side.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Hey, thanks for having me. Dan, Hey, that just shows
your superior intellect.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, I don't know about that.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Is there a list somewhere of the number of people,
obviously within recent memory who have actually summited.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Reached it's right at twelve thousand. There's been about twelve
thousand summits by about six thousand people. So in other words,
you have a lot of repeats, and typically those are
the shurpas that are working on the mountain.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Sure, yeah, and they're doing I'm talking about people who
have come there for once. Look, that is a more
exclusive club than people who have played Major League baseball.
It's about twenty five thousand people going back the last
one hundred or so years, one hundred and twenty years
who have played Major League baseball. So this is a
(02:20):
pretty exclusive group, and it's not for everyone. I guess
you would agree on that.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Qualified works.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
What do you have to do for if you're seriously
thinking of it, give me some ideas. If I said
to you, yeah, I'd like to climb evers, what would
you what would you suggest?
Speaker 5 (02:39):
Well?
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Number one is that you have to have experience on
lower mountains like a Denali or some seven thousand meters
mountains in South America like Akakagua. And the second you
have to have the physical fitness. I always say that
you have to be in Everest shape, not the dust
shape of your life, because that altitude is just makes
it so so difficult. And then third, most and probably
(03:01):
most important, is that you have to have mental toughness.
It's just too easy to give up if you don't
know why you're there, because it is it's a supper fest.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I have seen pictures of people who get up to
the top of Everest, and it looks to me like
it's a very small and dangerous point when you achieve
the summit. Am I being misled? Have I looked at
it different incorrectly?
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Now?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
It's about the size. It's about the size of an
average you know, maybe living room in a house in
the US. But you know, you can come up from
either the Tibet side or from the Nepal site, and
both of those routes obviously meet at the summit. But
the biggest issue that you have to worry about is
wind chill. It can be twenty degrees below zero, and
(03:47):
if you have a three mile an hour wind, that
can be a minus thirty wind chill. So you know,
you wear a down suit and you have special boots
and gloves and goggles. So as the saying goes, there's
no bad weather, there's only that gear.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
So and as you're going up, it's you have to
I assume also at different times use axes or some
tools to get up. I mean it's not like you're
walking up a trail or something like that.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Right, Well, there is a because of the number of
people in the mountain. In fact, we're just wrapping up
this spring season and there will be about five hundred
and fifty people who have summoned over the last two weeks.
So as a result, there's what's called a boot path
that you basically a trench in the snow, and you
don't really need the two handled ice axes because you're
(04:38):
not climbing a vertical wall. The steepest sections are probably
sixty degrees, and you're going using a fixed rope. It's
a thin nylon rope about the size of your finger,
and you attach a mechanical device called an as cinder
that has teeth on it, so if you fall, the
teeth will dig into the rope and keep you from
falling further.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
It sounds it sounds like a Harrold experience. I mean,
what is the average length of time to go from
the base camp to the top? I mean, in reasonable conditions,
and I guess none of the conditions are truly reasonable.
But how long does it take the average hiker who's
(05:20):
going to Summit to summits?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
A couple of days at least or more.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Well, this has changed dramatically over the years. So there's
two parts of that question. One is how long does
an average expedition take?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And this year there was.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
A team from the UK that did it in one week,
but typically it lasts around four to six to eight weeks.
Traditionally it was two months, but there are techniques now
people are using to shorten that now. But your question
specifically is how long does it take to go from
base camp to the summit, and that's a multi day effort.
You go from base camp to Camp two, where you
(05:53):
spend two nights, then you go to Camp three where
you spend the night. Then you go to Camp four
where you spend about twelve hours, and then you take
about anywhere from fifteen to twenty four hours to go
from the high camp to the summit and back to
the high camp, and then you take go back down
the camp too, which is another day, and then back
down to base camp. So all in all, it's about.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
A week and you're in tough conditions. Why is it?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
This is it that our spring, you know here in
the US, seems to be the best season for climbing.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
I love that you asked that question because I'm just
fascinated by this. Mount e Versus is so tall at
twenty nine thousand feet that had put the summit pokes
into the jet stream, and you know that's the winds
that are going one hundred and fifty hundred miles an hour,
and that jet stream is present on Everest throughout the
entire year except for two short windows, one in the
spring and one in the fall. The one in the
(06:46):
spring is when everybody climbs it because that's when it's
the warmest. The one in the fall is typically a
little colder. But there are cyclones that build up in
the Bay of Bengaul around May May fifteenth, and this
has been consistent since nineteen fifty three, and those cyclones
will create a low pressure or a pressure system that
pushes the jet stream off of the summit just for
(07:07):
about two weeks, and then it goes away and the
jet stream comes back. So that's why everybody goes at
the same time.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
It's unbelievable when people do reach the summit and they
and they dissent. Is there some sort of This is
a dumb question, but I get paid good money to
our stuff. Questions are you given some sort of a souvenir,
a metal, a plaque. I kind of imagine a more
(07:38):
harrowing experience. Most of us could voluntarily subject ourselves during
our lifetime, and you have to have something you could show.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
I assume you know it's a fascinating subject. Because mountaineering
is a sport that has no rules. Everybody does it
on their own way, and there's no trophy, there's no reward,
there's no mento. You might get a summit certificate from
the government, and that's about it. But you do come
home with immense pride for what you did, knowing that
(08:08):
you've done something that a few other people have done,
and depending upon what your reason was. I climbed to
honor my mother, Ida, who died from Alzheimer's, and for
me being able to honor her from the summit of a
Mount Everest was the most important thing I ever did
in my life.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Do people bring things with them to leave in the summit?
I would hope not.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Yeah, you're not supposed to technically, but a lot of
people will bring pictures of loved ones, or they'll bring
a little momento and just set it on the summit.
It doesn't stay there very long because it's so windy.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
The window just blown away.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Yeah, wow wow.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
And what got you involved? Was it just in memory
of you mom? Or was this something that you had
thought about before and when she passed you decided what
better way.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
To honor her?
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Yeah? It started when I came to Colorado as a
twelve year old and saw the mountains, but I put
that away until I was thirty eight, and then I
started climbing. My first big peak was Mont Blanc in Europe,
and then I did a tract to Everage base Camp,
and then I did a major expedition every year for
the next thirty five years.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And Dan is just.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Something that gets inside of you. Often say that if
you fall in love with mountaineering, it's an expense of
addiction for which there is no cure.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, and I in reading my prep here for this interview,
I guess it's it can be thousands, tens of thousands
of dollars if you're going to do it properly in
the company of guides and things like that. This is
not something that you do.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
On a lark.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
I often just make it really simple and say it's
the price of a car, and it can be it
can be a Ugo, or it can be a Mercedes.
The median price this year at twenty twenty five was
around fifty thousand dollars. If you went with an Apoly company,
a Scherpa owned company. If you went with an American
company or an Austrian or a New Zealand com company,
(10:00):
that medium price jumps to seventy five thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Wow, I've learned more about Mount Everest than in this
t ten minutes or so than I ever learned before.
Who was the first person was it? Who was the
first person who climbed Everest?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:23):
It was on Tempany Norgay he was and it was
a key Lea from New Zealand, Sir Edmund Hillary, and
they were with a British expedition and.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Sir Edmund Hillary, if I'm not mistaken, did that sometime
in like nineteen fifty.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Two, right, fifty three?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, fifty three. And I believe that Hillary Clinton had
made the comment at some point that she had been
named after Sir Edmund Hillary, but she was born a
few years before he achieved.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Trimy. I haven't heard that.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
True, Oh true, she said, she said that when she
was ready for presid as she was caught in I
guess we would call it a biographical error.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Yeah, interesting, Alan, I.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Really enjoyed this conversation. How could folks get more information?
I know you have a blog here that we I'd
love to have you give you the opportunity to publicize.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Thanks, Just go to my website as Alan Arnett dot
com is a l A n A r n e
t t e dot com all one word and from
there this links to go to my consulting business, into
my blogging, to my coverage amount Everston more things than
you ever wanted to know about me.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Well, let me tell you that's it's a great name.
Reminds me of running back for the Rams in the
nineteen fifties. John Aren't played at USC and then at
the Rams. You can look it up a different spelling
than your name he had. You got a couple of
extra letters there, probably related Alan, Thank.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You so much.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
All right, thanks day appreciated likeadbye. All right, we get back.
We're going to talk about sleep, your sleep with a
sleep expert from Mass General Brigham and Harvard Medical School,
doctor Rebecca Robbins. We've got a good lineup of guests
for you tonight. Trust me stay with us.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news Radio.
It's night Side with Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
All right, welcome back everyone. We're joined by doctor Rebecca Robbins.
She's a sleep expert at the Mass General Brigham and
also at Harvard Medical School. Now, doctor Robbins, I like
sleep a lot, but I'm not a sleep expert and
as I understand it, uh, we're going to talk this
(12:52):
evening about those of us who like to get an
extra ten minutes or so.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Sleep when we wake up.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Naturally, not a great idea, dear, as signis, did that
good evening and welcome?
Speaker 7 (13:03):
Thank you so much for having me. Great to be
with you.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
So those of us, I don't hit the snooze button.
I just fall back to sleep and wake up twenty
minutes later. I have an internal clock, I hear, but
it's it's the same principle, correct.
Speaker 7 (13:17):
Mm hmm, that's right. This paper that came out this week.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
We're so excited.
Speaker 7 (13:22):
It's really interesting because this area of research is very
kind of limited. Not many people have looked at using
this snooze alarm, and it sounds like something so trivial,
but believe it or not, our research found that in
among the users of a very popular sleep tracking application,
a smartphone app that individuals will use to track and
monitor their sleep and also as an alarm in the morning,
(13:45):
we found that in the individuals that are tracking their sleep,
over fifty percent of every sleep session that was logged
on the app ended in a snooze button. And what
we're referring to is one alarm going off and then
another alarm being pressed is set four or five ten
minutes to go off again after that first alarm, and
we refer to this as snoozing or using the snooze alarm. Now, unfortunately,
(14:10):
that sleep that you might get in between that first
alarm going off and your snooze alarm is not very
good quality sleep because that first alarm often will wake
us up from sometimes the most restorative sleep of the
night because rapid ims mid sleep predominates in the second
half of the night, and if we're not getting enough
sleep and that first alarm wakes us up before we're
(14:33):
kind of we've gotten what we need for the night.
You might be in this vital stage and you might
feel like you need a little bit more sleep and
reach for that snooze alarm, but if you do fall
back asleep again, it's likely going to be low quality
or poor quality sleep. So the best thing is to
set your alarm for the latest possible time and doing
(14:54):
your best to get out of bed at that time.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Okay, now, now you are with the division of sleep
as you can disorders medicine at Brigham A Women's Hospital,
and you're an expert on this. I was surprised to
find out that most of the snooze alarm activity was
not on weekends. It was during the week which to
(15:18):
me seems counterintuitive that when that alarm goes off in
the morning, you got to get to work, you got
to get the day going. The time to hit his
snooze button is on Saturday or Sunday, But it seems
as if the practice was just the reverse.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
What's going on with that?
Speaker 7 (15:33):
You know, I see what you're saying, but you know, interestingly,
we just found that there was much less use of
the snooze alarm on the weekend. And I think because
people aren't setting on alarms, many of us have the
luxury of being able to wake up maybe when our
kids wake us up, or when our dog wakes us up,
when we wake up naturally and we don't have to
worry about an alarm to get us out of bed,
or you know, even the snooze alarm reaching for that
(15:53):
in the afternoon after that first alarm goes off. So
we did indeed find the most snooze alarm youth between
Monday and Friday mornings, and we found on average, it's
not a long period of time, but individuals are snoozing
on average for about eleven minutes, which again can seem
a little bit trivial. But if we do the math,
if you're snoozing every day for anywhere between ten and
(16:14):
fifteen minutes, that catches up pretty or gets pretty quickly
to about an hour of sleep. That would is really
kind of low quality or poor sleep. And so if
we all commit to setting our alarm, say you have
to get to work at eight o'clock, it takes you
thirty minutes to get there, it takes you thirty minutes
to get ready. Okay, seven o'clock would be your alarm,
(16:36):
But if there's any way to maybe get everything you
need to do to get ready and out the door
done a little bit faster, there's any way to set
a little bit later alarm and commit to not snooze.
Think about that. That could be ten or fifteen minutes
more each and every night, and for many of us,
that could be a lifeline if you're not getting enough sleep.
(16:57):
That supports all of the very rich and nuanced areas
of our lives that are impacted by our sleep.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Okay, so here's a question. This is sort of off
we're going to talk about. I'm a big proponent of
power naps. I got up at five point thirty this morning,
had to drive back to where we live, spent ninety
minutes in the car, and this afternoon decided to watch
a little bit of the Red Sox game, and I said,
you know what, you need a little power nap here.
(17:26):
So I sent my clock for forty five minutes. Got
a great forty five minute power nap in the afternoon,
which I don't often do.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
But I am a huge believer because I got a.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Broadcast tonight until midnight and I have to stay awake
until the end of the show at least. Are you
a proponent of power naps under those circumstances or no?
Speaker 7 (17:48):
Absolutely, that was the perfect scenario. That was a perfect
storm for a little sleepiness in the afternoon. If I'm
hearing this correctly, yes, you were up earlier than usual.
You got, if I'm hearing this correctly, about five and
a half hour of sleep and far below what your
brain and body needs.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
I went to bed, No, and in all honesty, I
got I went to bed at nine thirty last night
and slept till five dies, so I got eight hours,
but I still really go to midnight.
Speaker 7 (18:13):
Was that earlier than usual, was five thirty earlier than.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Oh, yes, dramatically.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Earlier, usually up until twelve, up until one, and then
I sleep until maybe eight in the morning.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I am a seven hour.
Speaker 7 (18:26):
Person because of course you're working until twelve and you
need to unwind and get ready for bed. So I
think what might have been going on and what the
truth is. We talk a lot about sleep duration, getting
enough sleep, but believe it or not, the consistency of
our sleep is as important, if not more, And that
all comes down or comes back to a principle called
(18:47):
our circadian rhythm, and it's one of the driving forces
behind our sleep, and that system of hormones being secreted
or kind of retreating, and that all operates really in
this beautiful symphonic way, and our internal circuitry of our
circadian rhythm and those the hormones are associated with our
(19:09):
ability to know when we're tired when we should be alert,
though that process does not change on a dime. We
truly are not built to make sleeping changes to our
sleep schedules from one day to the next. So when
we find ourselves in a different sleep schedule than normal,
it is very common to maybe if you're falling asleep
or waking up earlier or lier than usual. That can
(19:31):
be challenging. If you're falling asleep or you know, or
if you're waking up earlier than usual, that can of
course cause some sleepiness, likely because you're probably not getting
enough sleep. And so in those circumstances when you're not
able to get enough sleep, or you find that you
have a schedule that is mismatched with your typical routine,
that can cause some sleepiness. And so I think it's
a terrific idea that you took a power nap and
(19:53):
that can pay back some of your what we call
sleep debt some of the basically when we take time
away from our sleep that doesn't dissipate into thin air,
and we refer to this as our sleep debt.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
And I'll bet you I'm going to be able to
stay awake until midnight tonight as a result.
Speaker 7 (20:09):
There we go, perfect strategy.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Then, how can folks get more information from you? There's
an article that you're referred to. Can we can you
direct folks to that?
Speaker 7 (20:20):
Yes, thank you so much. Was published in the journal
Scientific Reports. My colleagues and I are are excited that
that is out in the peer review literature, and it's
an open science journal, so you don't have to pay
for it. You can go right to them. If you
any any search engine, use the term Snooze Alarm and
Scientific Reports. You should be able to find the article
and you can find our research also at the Brigham
(20:41):
and Women's Hospital. We're in the division of Sleep and
Circadian Disorders.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Thank you so much, Doctor Rebecca Robins, thank you for
having me.
Speaker 7 (20:47):
It's great chat with you.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I love your enthusiasm. That's what's that's what's great.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
The people who I talked to us, it's just so
enthusiastic about exactly what they do, and I really it's
it's it's very obvious. Thank you, Thank you so much,
and that I'm sure makes you a great sleep expert.
We'll talk again.
Speaker 7 (21:04):
I hope you're very kind down. Thank you all my pleasure.
Thank you for having me. Great scouting with you.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Back, catch you bye bye. When we get back.
Speaker 8 (21:10):
Right after the news, we're going to talk about scouting Boston.
There are no more boy Scouts and Girl Scouts ht
Scouting Boston, and we're going to be talking with the
CEO of Scouting Boston, John Judge on the other side.
By the way, if you haven't pulled down the new
and improved iHeart app, do it now and make WBZ
your first preset, so we will only be a fingertip
away from you on whatever device you have us pulled
(21:32):
down on, wherever you might be in the world. Back
on Nightside, right after this.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Night Side with Ray, Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
All right, welcome back everyone. A little change in our line.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
If some of our guests sometimes kind of nod off,
I think so. We have been delighted to move up
in our batting order tonight. Doctor David Hill. He's a
member of the Lung Association's National Board, the American Lung
Association's National Board of Directors, immediate pasture of the Northeast
Regional Board of the American Lung Association, and a practicing
(22:09):
pulmonary and critical care physician, Doctor David Hill, you're pinch
hitting well, actually you're just moving up to batting number
third from cleanup.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
How are you this evening?
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Very well?
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Thank you, thanks very much.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Where do we find you tonight? Are you a local
guy in Boston? And we have you from somewhere in
a far flung part of this country, great country of ours.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
Not far away from the great state of Connecticut.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Oh, that's the Nutmeg State of course, next door neighbor, Okay.
So essentially we're always trying to get better air quality.
And as I understand it, at this point, about one
hundred and fifty six million Americans, many of whom are
on the East Coast, are living in areas that they
(22:55):
the air quality is not what it should be. Those
of us who grew up, you know, in this seventies
and the eighties, we remembered the smog of Los Angeles,
and that was the place where poor air quality was.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
So what's happened, Well, you know, a.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
Lot of this has to do with changing climate. We've
seen the wildfires of the last several years an issue
on the West coast, but a few years ago Canda
sending their smoke our way. And you know, over the
last couple of years, even here in the Northeast, there
have been significant wildfires, all of which lead to increased
(23:34):
particle pollution, which worsens air quality. And then they are
concerns about ozone pollution, which comes from automobile exhaust and
from factory pollution, and particularly here in the Northeast, that
pollution tends to travel up on the jet stream and
land around us. So all of those have led to
(23:55):
worsening air pollution definitely connected with warming climate and change
just due to that.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Now my sense and I live in Boston, I live
in New England. I'm a lifelong New England resident. My sense,
again it's non scientific, is that the ear that I'm
breathing is better today than it's been in the past.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Is that just a psychological.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Belief that I'm caring and that science would prove me wrong.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
I think that you know, the Cleaner Act has been
very successful.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
In nineteen sixty three, right.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
Right, improving certain forms of air pollution, but particularly ozone
pollution and particle pollution have been worsening more recently, and
the driving factor behind that being climate change and having
unhealthy air can be hard to detect, so we all
(24:56):
kind of feel it on hot, humid days. But here
in the Northeast with high traffic carters and with that
jet stream pollution that can that can be significant, and
by the time the air quality is bad, you may
not be aware of it, so it's.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Not not too much.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I guess that we can do about the wildfires in
the Great Canadian Northwest. How long does it take before
that bad ear to dissipate?
Speaker 5 (25:24):
It really depends on what's happening in local weather systems,
So it's important to pay attention to air quality. The
federal government has an AirNow dot gov site that you
can look up your local air quality and see what's
going on. There may be times of day that air
quality is better. It tends to be worse in the
(25:45):
hotter portions of the day when there's more traffic and
it's it's very variable depending on where you live.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
So okay, okay, So let me ask this for those
of us who are baby boomers, and I'm a baby boomer, Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Era did we breathe? Was the ear the.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Cleanest during our lives? So I'm talking about people who
were born post World War Two? Did the ear quality
get better after the Cleaner Act of sixty three and
then we've let it slide? How would you if you
would have put it on a spectrum for us? What
was the best decade? If there was a best, there
had to be a best or the least worst?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
When? When? When?
Speaker 3 (26:28):
When were we moving in the right direction? And when
did we stop moving in the right direction?
Speaker 5 (26:34):
You know, I think we were moving in the right
direction late late seventies and early eighties. Part of this
is us being aware of the science and knowing that
air quality levels we may have thought were safe in
the past, we know are more dangerous based on improving
scientific data. And definitely over the last several years, the
(26:57):
worsening air pollution has become a big issue. And I
think you're right to say, we can't control what happens
with Canadian wildfires, but we can do what we can
to minimize air pollution from other sources and minimalize activities
that are driving global warming and meeting to these fires occurring.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Okay, so let me ask you this is always my
toughest question, and that is this.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I look at the map of.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
The world and I look at us, and I see
that New England's like this little speck in the world.
And I know that there are countries all over the
world that have no controls like we have environmental controls India, Pakistan, China,
and probably a lot of countries that you know that
people haven't even heard of, Kazakhstan or whatever. How can
(27:45):
we win this battle if we, you know, do everything
we can here, But China, India, Pakistan and the other
big pollutas around the world don't get their act together
because it all, it doesn't just stay over those countries
that are big polluters, It migrates towards us.
Speaker 5 (28:06):
Well. I think it requires a combination of both national
action and international action. The model I talked about ozone
being a bad pollute net ground level ozone is good
up in the stratosphere, you know. So we came to
gather together internationally when the whole on uzone that level
was occurring to have international changes to help fix that.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
That closed up right that that actually has closed up
of the sun as I understand.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
That was international global action to deal with a global problem.
We've attempted that on a global level, you know, with
the Paris Accords and other action on climate. We haven't
been a successful one getting consensus, and we need to
work towards that consensus. And I think part of it
(28:57):
is leading by example, and part of it is by
pressuring our international partners to follow that lead, you know.
So it's you know, a complex situation, but I think
we can't look to the rest of the world to lead.
We need to be able leaders in progressing towards a
healthier planet.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, I hope that they will follow. I know when
I try to set good examples for my kids, sometimes
they followed that. Sometimes they didn't clean up your room,
you know, clean up, take your plates to the sink.
I find that sometimes as much as we might try,
it doesn't really work.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Doctor Hill.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Really enjoyed talking with you, and I would love to
get back and talk about the impact that this has
on diseases in this country and whether or not are
we're being any more successful fighting diseases that are you know,
lung diseases and other similar diseases. But I think we'll
(29:56):
save that for our next conversation.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
If that's okay, that sounds great. Look forward to talking
to you in the future.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Thank you very much, doctor David Hill. Remember the Lung
Association's National Board of Directors and Immediates Past Yere of
the Northeast Regional Board of the American Lung Association. Appreciate
your time to sevening, doctor Hill.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Thank you again, Thank you. Thanks.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
We'll be back for one final segment. And I don't
know if Noah has Las sued our prior guest or not.
Noah talked to me here do we have the prior
guest as he checked in, Okay, then we're working on
that even as we speak. The entire night Side staff
(30:37):
is working out on that right now. They have their
people across the country is alerted, and if not, I'll
be able to give you a little preview of what's
coming up tonight, beginning at nine o'clock and on for
the balance of the evening.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
So stay with us here on Nightside, coming right back.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
It's Night Side, Boston's News Radio. Hi, you're on night
Side with Dan Ray. I'm telling you Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
All right.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Well, our third guest, John Judge, the CEO of Scouting Boston,
is a no show tonight. Now that's a little disappointing,
but that can happen.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
We'll figure that out. That was confirmed for us earlier today.
Not my producer's fault, that is for sure, but not
a good not a good look.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
John.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
If you're out there tonight, many driving and I don't know,
I hope you're okay, hope nothing bad has happened to you.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
But that leaves us.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
With a few minutes here, and what I'm gonna do
is take advantage of that few minutes to just go
over what would what we're gonna do for the rest
of the night. During the eleven o'clock hour tonight, I
heard a story over the weekend which I thought was
really interesting. You know, you send your children off to college,
or or maybe you go after college yourself, and you
(32:01):
spend four years working very hard, and you're looking for
the graduation day when you're going to walk across the
stage and.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Get your ceremonial diploma.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
And whatever it is a Bachelor of Arts or a
Bachelor of Science, or I don't know, it could be
a master's or a doctorate. So you always are interested
who will be the person who who would speak at
your graduation, your commencement. Well, I read over the weekend
(32:30):
and found out that Kermit the Frog was the headliner
of this year at the University of Maryland's graduation ceremony.
We will talk about that later on tonight. Apparently the
University of Maryland has a connection with the late great
creator of the Muppets, Jim Henson, who was a graduate
(32:53):
in the class of nineteen sixty.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
So this would be.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
That this would have been his what forty sixty sixty
fifth year as a graduate of nineteen a graduate of
nineteen sixty, and they decided it was a good idea
to have Kermit the Frog join that commencement speech. So
we'll we'll talk about that later. And then at nine o'clock,
(33:26):
or rather the ten o'clock I going to talk about
Harvard University's fight with President Trump, or I should say
President Trump's fight with Harvard University, and there is a
I'm amazed that the President wants to pick this fight
and is not willing to accept the concessions that Harvard
has made. And the next hour, at nine o'clock, we
got to talk about your reflections on this Memorial Day.
(33:49):
A solid day, but a day in which we honored
the memory of a lot of American heroes. I'm told
by my producer, I believe he was talking in my ear. Noah,
do we have our guests? Our fourth guest, Okay, without
any further ado, we're going to go to John Judge.
He's the CEO of Scouting Boston. John, we almost missed you.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
How are you.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Great?
Speaker 6 (34:11):
Thanks Dan, Thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah. Well, we were supposed to talk to you at
eight thirty.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
What happened was it a miscommunication on our end or
what I.
Speaker 6 (34:20):
Just oh it was it was my fault. It's my
nine year old daughter's birthday and my in laws came
in and yeah, one thing led to another.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I gotcha. Okay, Well, thank you very much. Confession is
good for the soul, So thank you very much. But
we want to take whatever time we have left to
talk about Scouting Boston. You're the CEO of Scouting Boston.
There is no more Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. I
mean the terrain has changed, correct.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
Well, yeah they so, Boy Scouts of America is now
Scouting America. In that that's cub Scouts Scouts BSA, which
is the eleven to eighteen year old program which a
lot of people know culminates in the Eagle Scout rank.
And then there's a career program called Exploring, which is
(35:10):
very popular, especially the police Exploring, Exploring with different careers
including we've got a new aviation post at Logan Airport
with about twenty Chelsea High School students participating in that.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
So just to try to get a sense of this,
and I know I'm a little rushed here, which you
kind of understand. If a girl, if a young girl
wants to join Scouts. Is Girl Scouts still in existence
or is Girl Scouts in Boy Scouts now combined in
Scouting America.
Speaker 6 (35:40):
Now that's a great question. Girl Scouts is still in existence.
So Girl Scouts USA and then Scouting America went co
ed back in twenty fifteen twenty sixty, and.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
So therefore young girls could either affiliate with Girl Scouts
or they could also affiliate with Scouting of America.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
They have the.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Choice, that's right.
Speaker 6 (36:06):
Fact, girls are attaining the Eagle Scout rank, which is
really impressive for any teenager to get to. The girls
are doing it in about three years, while the boys
are taking an extra year to do it. So the
girls are coming in and really doing amazing work. That
(36:29):
we've got just about eight thousand young women who have
become Eagle Scouts far.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
So that either that proves girls are just smarter than
young boys at that age or the boys are just
goofing off of that. Yeah, but worth to go thatw
My understanding is one of the things you were going
to mention tonight was you're going to be recognizing two
community leaders at the forty fifth Annual Salute the Scout
in Gala.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
On June fourth.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Former Boston Police Commissioner Willie Gross, great friend, former Scout
Explorer leader, will be your master of ceremony and you
will be recognizing a couple of I think individuals here
in Boston, But the one that I probably would like
to mention is Bob Rivers. Also investments pioneer Amy Dumini.
(37:16):
But Bob Rivers is the president of Eastern Bank and
an Eastern Bank, I believe it has been very supportive of
UH Scouting Scouting Boston or Boston more more specific, but
I guess it's Scout. Yeah, it's Scouting Boston and UH
and and Bob and Eastern Bank have been big supporters
(37:39):
of your group. And you guys are going to honor
honor Bob Rivers. And I know him very well, and
so I want to make sure he gets a congratulations
from me. Tell us about your relationship with Bob Rivers
in Eastern Bank. Oh?
Speaker 6 (37:53):
Thanks, Bob, is you know he's an incredible community leader.
And when you think about, you know, the top three
corporations in terms of corporate social responsibility and the community
work that they do, the volunteerism that they do, I mean,
(38:13):
Eastern is at the top. Of any list. It's and
it's driven by Bob's cheer of Eastern Bank. You know,
he's a he's a stone Hill grad, Stonehill College grad.
He's a local guy and just never forgot, you know,
the community that he came from, and it certainly has
(38:36):
been very involved in the work of inclusion and access
working in cities. He's doing a lot of work now
in Brockton with that the new minor League.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
He's fought a little a.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Little bit of work with the Boston Rocks.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Will do me a favorite Bob as a dear friend,
and please tell him that that. I just wanted to
send Mike ngratulations on and also UH send I don't
know Amy uh Dominie, but I'm sure she epitomizes the
leadership and community service uh and values that are inherent
in the in the Scouting program.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
UH.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
And of course Willie Grosse is just an incredible individual.
Speaker 6 (39:17):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
And also himself grew up in the He led the
Boston Police Boy Scouts Explorer program.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
John.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
I hate to do this to you, but time tempest
has fugit. The temp is fugit, as the Latin has say,
and so we will have to you know, I hope
we've got a little bit here, but uh, we'll get
back to at some point and we won't hold this
against you for sure.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Okay, thanks very much.
Speaker 6 (39:42):
Getting your scouting Boston dot org. If you want ticket
or information.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Yeah, we're going to give you a demerit on your
your your attendance record, okay for being tardy. Those of
us who went to Boston Latin School back in the
day know what a demerit on our tarty list looks like.
So it's it's not you know, it can be a
rased at some point. Don't worry about it. Okay, thanks again, Joe,
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