April 17, 2025 • 42 mins
Physician shortages in the U.S. are affecting health systems and organizations nationwide and are predicted to have long-lasting effects on public health. According to the Association of American Medical Colleges, the U.S. is facing a shortage of up to 124,000 physicians by 2034, including 48,000 primary care physicians. Dr. Marschall Runge, Executive Vice President for Medical Affairs at the University of Michigan and CEO of Michigan Medicine joined us to discuss the shortages and how technological advances, policy changes, and emerging business models are fundamentally transforming American healthcare.
Listen to WBZ NewsRadio on the NEW iHeart Radio app and be sure to set WBZ NewsRadio as your #1 preset!
Listen to WBZ NewsRadio on the NEW iHeart Radio app and be sure to set WBZ NewsRadio as your #1 preset!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Bzy Boston's Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thank you, Dan Watkins. Just a little over a week ago,
we had this guest that's coming up on with us
and we were had the fortune to talk with doctor
Marshall Rungi, who is the dean of the University of
Michigan Medical School, and I just felt that it would
be great to bring him back, and he is consented
(00:28):
to come back and take some phone calls. Doctor Runky,
welcome back. You have a book that is just about
to come out. I don't know if it's I think
it's public published. Publicity date or published date is May sixth,
coming up May sixth, a couple of weeks from now.
Is that the deal?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yes, Dan, And it's great to be back on your
show again. Thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh our pleasure. So your book is The Great Healthcare Disruption.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And you this is not your first book as I
understand it.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Correct, No, it's not.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
It's a new venture for me. Forges Books called me
up and asked me if I wanted to write a
book about where I thought healthcare was going in the
next five to ten years and pick some important topics.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
And it was.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
A great project to work on.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, my test thinning is that you look at the
recent technological advances, policy changes, and different business models. Let's
break that down a little bit in our conversation to
language that lay people can understand. We talked earlier about
how difficult it is to find a personal care physician
(01:37):
what we call PCBs, PCPs or family doctors back here.
Doctors are retiring at a very fast rate. The doctors
that were produced through the baby boom. They're hanging the
stethoscopes up. I had lunched the other day with a
doctor friend of mine who retired a few years ago,
(01:59):
and irust him about the fact that it's tough to
get a doctor these days, no matter how old you are.
And he was saying that he knew of a PCP,
you know, general practitioner who retired and she cannot find
a doctor herself. So in the midst of all of
the renovations, you know, the new renovations, the technological renovations
(02:22):
that we're that we're talking about, just getting a doctor's tough.
So let's talk about some of these advances. Let's talk
about the good ones first. What are the developments that
you see that are clearly going to be positive going forward.
In the terms of.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Healthcare, well, I think there are several I do think finally,
after a long time, there's much attention being paid to
how we need to educate more doctors, and particularly those
who are going to do primary care, so family medicine, doctors,
in general internals, general pediatricians. Because if you look at
(03:02):
there are all different kinds of ways to measure it.
But if you look at the number of primary care
physicians per one thousand in the United States, that's about
point three to one. But if you look at our
peer countries, sort of the high income advanced countries, their
numbers are up to five or ten times as many
(03:22):
primary care physicians. And I think that one of the
things that we really need to focus on is helping
people be healthy. Now we have great healthcare. If I'm
going to be terribly sick, I'd rather be in the
United States than anywhere else. But you're absolutely right, it's
hard to find a primary care doctor, and we need
(03:44):
to increase the number of people in those areas, and
I think there are ways to do it, and I
think we need to do more to try to keep
people healthy so they don't have to go to the office,
so that's.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Why they bought. But the number that you just gave,
I want to break that down. You're saying that for
every primary care physician in this country, per one thousand people,
there is zero point three to one. So that means
that every primary care physician in this country, you've got
to triple that thousand. There's one primary care physician for
(04:17):
about every three thousand people, which is crazy. I think
that's y. Yes, that's too much for anyone to handle,
which is why so many people now their primary care
physician is the local emergency room. We've gotten into that
situation too, by the way, which is kind of the
flip side of that ugly coin.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yes, you're you're absolutely right, Dan. And the other problem
with the merchaningy rooms. I mean, there they provide great care,
but it's very expensive. But the biggest part is you
lose that continuity that you would have with a physician
that you know, a doctor that you know, so because
you go to the Mercury moom, it could be whoever
(04:59):
happens to be working on on that shift. I do
go ahead, let me.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Ask you one question. One of the solutions that I
think the medical community was suggesting UH to make up
for the shortfall of internist pediatricians and primary care physicians,
the doctor who you go to see on a regular basis,
UH is saying, well, we'll graduate people who are known
(05:24):
as UH. You know, medical assistants are are what what
is I'm trying to think of the phrase they're not
quite doctors, but their physicians assistance is the phrase I'm thinking. Yeah,
it's sort of in the spectrum. You know, I love nurses,
but between becoming a doctor or a nurse, they have
(05:45):
these folks are now physicians assistants. Has that experiment run
its course and either succeeded or failed.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
It has in general succeeded and both for physicians assistants
and and UH. In nursing there are what are called
advanced practice nurses who are nurse practitioners, and that has
been very helpful. And actually, in many rural areas or
underserved areas, they the physician's assistants or nurse practitioners. They're
(06:18):
they're they're they're the primary care provider in those areas
because there just aren't enough doctors to who live there
who want to practice medicine there. So I think it
has been a it's been an important solution, and but
it's not enough. And I think that a problem that
I think we touched on briefly before Dan was that
(06:39):
physicians just feeling worn out, burned out. And there are
some technologies that I think are going to be really helpful.
One of those has to do with AI. So there's
a technology called ambient AI that's used in healthcare. Now,
it's not widely used, but it's we're using it in
(06:59):
the Versus Michigan. What it does is it listens to
the conversation between the doctor and the patient, or the
nurse practitioner or the physician's assistant and the patient, and
it doesn't just transcribe it. It transforms it into a
really high quality medical note. For all of us who've
(07:20):
played around with AI, it's just amazing how it can
summarize things and make it very logical. And so what
that helps with is I don't know about you, but
when I go to see my interness, generally he's facing
the other way. He's a great doctor, he's facing the
other way. He's tpping on his computer trying to keep up.
(07:41):
And most primary care physicians say at the end of
the day, they have two or three hours worth of
documentation left. If they use this technology that I was
just just they could be done when their clinic is done.
Those notes are churned out by the time, but within
a minute or two of when they finish their patient
counter that can prove it, read it, correct it, and
(08:02):
go on to the next questient. So there are technologies
like that that they help, okay, and.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
So those that ambient AI produces a document which isn't
just sort of like a verbatim transcription of the entirety
of the conversation. It is able because it's artificial intelligence
to isolate the portions of the conversation that are important
to the doctor and to the patient, and it's then
(08:29):
presented in a form that looks more like a form
that the doctor would would produce, not just the transcript.
How you're doing today, what's going on? Those Tigers keep winning,
They're going to be a good team this year. That
is not what's going to be trans We're going to
be I assumed they're gonna They're gonna separate the wheat
from the chaff, is what I'm trying to say. If
(08:49):
it's if it's it really is artificial intelligence exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
And I'll tell you another interesting factor of what AI
is bringing forward and announces medical records. If you have
requested your medical record, or you look at your medical record,
it can be page after page after page after page
of stuff that's just kind of piled on, and you
can put that into an AI reader and interpreter and
(09:20):
it can come up with a very powerful but concise
summary of all the important things. And so rather than
you having to look through or your doctor having to
looked through fifteen pages, they it's a page and it
has or maybe a page in a half, and it
has everything that you need to do.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, you know, doctor Ronki. I'm a keeper of records.
I have in my office my medical records, okay by
year and obviously over time. Some of them do provide
insight out of importance. Others are just repetitive or unnecessary.
(10:00):
And if there was a machine, I could see these
records and I actually make up when I have the time,
charts and graphs for myself, so I can look at, well,
what was my what was my blood pressure? What was
my cholesterol five years ago, ten years ago? Is there
anything that is trending in a bad direction. I assume
this is the sort of artificial intelligence that they could
(10:20):
do that for me.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yes, But I have to tell you, Dan, you're like
the perfect patient. I'm a cardiologist and for somebody who
wants to follow what they're doing and knows what's going on.
You know that that's my day when I see somebody
like you. But you could try this experiment. You could
take your you know, take a pile of your medical
records and you can make a PDF of it, drag
(10:43):
it over into chat, GPT and FAY summarize the important
components of my medical record, show my blood pressure results
over the past five years or whatever you want to
look at. Are you my blood work, and it'll do it,
and it'll.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Do it in minutes.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
It is I try because I was just interested. Does
it really work? And it really works?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
You're the dean of a medical school. Of course, you
got to try that. My guest is doctor Marshall Rangy.
His book is The Great health Care Disruption. It's it's
published by Forbes Books. It's coming out on May sixth.
I assume it's available now through Amazon and places like that.
We have a lot to cover. If you'd like to
join the conversation six one, seven, two, five, four ten
(11:28):
thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. It's
not often on night Side, and I've had a lot
of guests over eighteen years. I haven't had too many
deans of medical schools, nor any dean of medical school
who is who is a fluid and as understandable. Uh
as doctor Rungy and Uh, I'm delighted he's back. We'll
(11:49):
get some phone calls. Any question you might have, feel free.
As I keep telling you that, as I learned in
law school, the only questions that are dumb questions are
the ones that you're too afraid to ask because they
always came up on the midterms or in the final exam.
So if you have any question, you know he's not
going to diagnose you. Over the year. You understand the
ground rules at Nightside that regard to okay, but if
(12:13):
you have a question, feel free. We'll be back on
Nightside with doctor Marshall RUNGI.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Right after this, you're on Night Side with Dan Ray
on wz Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
We will get to phone because I promise, but I
just have one more segment that i'd like to talk
with Doctor Marshall rungy about. He is the dean of
the medical school at the University of Michigan, which is
a great university for anyone who doesn't understand it is
one of the pre eminent universities in this country. I
(12:47):
just want to touch briefly, and we only have about
four minutes until the newscast. Five minutes to the newscast.
Here just to give a perspective, how many students does
the University of Michigan. How many seats do you have
for students coming in as a first year medical student
that you can admit.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Every year, we admit about one hundred and seventy student.
It varies a little bit from year to year, but
one hundred and seventy a year, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And how many students apply for those one hundred and
seventy seats?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Oh golly, I bet it's competitive. It's close to ten
thousand people apply for those Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Very co If it's ten thousand people who apply, most
of whom I assume have conquered organic chemistry. You're talking
about an admission rate of one point seven percent. If
I'm doing my math, if.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I that's probably right. Your math is faster than mine.
But I think that sounds right. Yes, it's a very
low admission, right.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, if it was a thousand seats for ten thousand,
it would be ten percent. This is this is over
one and a half percent, one point seven percent. And
how many of those students who you because you only
have so many seats, who you cannot physically accept that
(14:14):
you have to reluctantly deny. How many of them do
you think seek a medical career elsewhere, if if at
other medical schools, or if necessary offshore. You and I
have talked about the offshore medical schools before. I just
want people to understand that that these are qualified students.
I mean the you know, I assume that a good
(14:38):
percentage of those students could handle you know, the medical
school experience, but you just don't have the seats.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yes, that's correct, Dan. We on an average year, we
feel there are five or six hundred very high quality candidates,
you know, after we go to this pool. But the
number is so high because now, as with college applications,
a person can apply to thirty different places, and so
we get a lot of there are a lot of
(15:09):
people applying to different medical schools. But I would estimate
the number of highly qualified candidates in the United States
exceeds the number of positions in US medical schools by
at least two or threefolds.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Much higher.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
And a lot of those folks end up going to
medical schools that are called offshore medical schools. I guess
they can go to schools in Canada if those schools
are available, they are Canadian residents. How do we rectify this?
How do we get in this situation where there are
kids who are who are knocking at the door and
they and they want to be doctors, and we don't
(15:51):
have the capacity to educate them well. University of Michigan,
I'm talking about we as a society.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yes, I think there are a couple of issues. One
is medical school education, like all education, who's gotten highly regulated.
And some of that's positive and some of it's not
a positive. But one of the things that has resulted
in is I think our medical school classes are smaller
than they could be. I think we have the capacity
(16:19):
the University of Michigan, both the capacity for the more
scientific parts of it as well as the capacity to
train in different practice locations, different hospitals. We could train
twice as many people and I think that's probably true
in most medical schools. But there's concern about is that
(16:42):
too many, too many students for us to give the
knobable experience. The regulatory agencies, the Licensing commit Commission for
Medical Education LCME, it's very difficult to increase the size
of your class, and so I think we need to
take a look at that and say, why can't we
do more? Because we need more physicians, really, really in
(17:04):
every specialty. The number of physicians is inadequate in the
United States. And this dates back, oh more than twenty
years when studies were done under the belief that certain
changes in healthcare were going to result in far much
lower need for physicians. And that just turned out to
be a wrong assumption. So we need direct that and
(17:26):
part of that's on us. Part of it's on me.
I've been trying to get us to increase the size
of our medical school class. But it's a state Hills time.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, your class at the University of Michigan admits one
hundred and seventy Here in Massachusetts, Michael Collins is the
dean out there, and doctor Collins tells me it's a
hard cap at one and twenty. Now I know Michigan's
a bigger state than Massachusetts. But I think that that
you're doing pretty well compared to Massachusetts. And whoever came
(17:58):
up with that idea that they would need fewer doctors
with the baby boomers now aging wasn't. Didn't anybody look
at the birth certificates from the birth rates from the
late forties and early fifties and do some man on that.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
I mean, clearly, I can only plead innocent. I wasn't
part of those studies.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
No, I'm sure you were. I'm sure you weren't. But
whoever was, I think that they did do some calculations.
Were getting to take a break at it to get
some news here will we want to talk more with
doctor Marshall Runggy. He's the dean of the University of
Michigan Medical School, a great medical school. His book The
Great Healthcare Disruption, published by Forbes Books, available May sixth,
(18:40):
twenty twenty five. I'm sure you can get it through
Forbes Books. You can get it at Amazon. You can
order it. It's coming out on May sixth. That probably
there's there's pre orders available. We're going to talk a
little bit about the book two when we get back
some of the transformation that doctor Rungi said is really necessary.
(19:01):
We'll get to all of that and also get to
some phone calls. I promise if you'd like to get
on board now, you'll be guaranteed to get a chance
to chat. If you wait, you may we may run
out of time because we have Professor Stephen Pinker of
Harvard University psychologists at Harvard University joining us at ten
o'clock to talk about the Trump administration's efforts or threats
(19:23):
to take the tax exempt status away from Harvard University.
Steve Pinker has been on the show before. He is
no flaming radical at all. He's been very critical of
some of the actions of the administration at Harvard, particularly
as it related to some of the demonstration's last spring,
(19:44):
the EI initiatives, et cetera. But he feels that it
is an overstretch, overreach for the government to begin to
withdraw tax exempt status from an institution like Harvard, for
that matter, for really almost any institution, health care, facilit university,
a place of worship. We'll get to all of that,
I promise, if you'd like to jump on board six one, seven, two, five, four, ten,
(20:08):
thirty six one seven, nine three, one, ten thirty. And
if you are a college student out there who might
be listening and are thinking about practicing medicine, this is
an opportunity not to plead your case for acceptance to
the University of Michigan, but you certainly can ask the
dean what courses perhaps are would be most helpful to
see on your resume and what you might be able
(20:30):
to do at an extracurricular basis which might stand you
out apart from all of the other highly qualified applicants.
Back on Nightside the number six one, seven, two, five
four ten thirty or six one, seven, nine three one
ten thirty. Back on Nightside right after the news.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
So you're on night Side with Dan Ray.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I'm w b Z, Boston's news Radio, delighted to have
with us as my guest this hour, doctor Marshall Rungi.
He is the dean of the University of Michigan Medical School.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Doctor Ronki, we actually have listeners in Michigan, and I'm
hoping one or two of them might pick up the
phone tonight just so they that you will believe what
I'm talking about. We have listened all over the country.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
And this is a problem that does exist all over
the country. Is there anywhere in America, in your opinion
or within your knowledge, where it is easier to get
a new doctor if your doctor happens to retire or
move move the practice out of town, or is this
a problem that exists almost everywhere?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Then I think it's almost everywhere, and in particular to
get a new primary care doctor. Now, in many cities
there's a more of a concentration of specialists, and it
may be easier to find a specialist in large cities
than it is in smaller, smaller towns or rural areas.
(21:56):
But the problem with finding the primary care doctor is everywhere.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah. And that is the foundation upon which any person
needs to build their medical care in my opinion, because
it's that primary care doctor that is going to spot
things in your on your chart or just during your
annual visit or your semi annual visit with the blood
(22:22):
test and see some number is going in the wrong direction.
Let me let's let's get some callers in here as
well as our conversation. If it's okay, We're going to
go first to Frank, who is calling not from Michigan
but from South Boston. Frank, You're on with doctor Marshall Roungy.
He's the dean of the University of Michigan Medical School
and the author of a new book, The Great Healthcare Disruption.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Hey, Dan, thank you for taking my call, and thank
you doctor Rungi for doing this. I think this is
a great topic and very interesting. It's very close to me.
I'd like to preface this with all about a year ago, Dan,
I spent twenty one years in prison on a wrong
for conviction. I've been out for twenty four years, but
(23:08):
I've been so foretratulation.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Did you know you're over there with Fred Weichel in
South Boston who was in the same situation or a
similar situation. And I'm sure you know the cases that
I worked on, the Silvadi Lamoni case. Did you get
did you ever get compensation from the Colnwealth of Massachusetts?
Assume was a state conviction.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
It was, it was, and I didn't get as much
as I would have liked, But yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
But what I just like, Okay, well, congratulations, I hope,
I hope you got good medical care when you were
in prison. That's one of the benefits of being in prison.
There is a medical care. But how are you doing
okay right now? I hope medically.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Yeah. And if I was still in prison, I wouldn't
be alive today. But I'd like to say, you know, I,
first of all, doctor Ruggie my my, I'm a cancer survivor.
I've been cancer free. I was diagnosed at the beginning
of COVID and stage three prostate cancer and went to
(24:12):
forty four radiation treatments with a student from University of Michigan,
my urologist, doctor Mark Katz, who's like one of the
top one hundred doctors in Massachusetts. But I'm so blessed
to have the team of doctors. I am lucky, you know,
to have the team of doctors because I know how
(24:32):
hard it is to get a PCP. I've had the
same PCP at South Boston Community Health Center for about
fourteen years. She's an angel. She diag you know, she said,
you know, there's something wrong here and sent me in
and I saw the urologist and it went from there.
But and I with the you know, the lack of
(25:00):
primary care physicians, there's more more and more you see
more PA's doing stuff, more nas and more d os
osteopathic medicine doctors and they're all great, you know, but
I mean the strain. I can see it here in
South Boston and it's a great, great community health center
(25:22):
that we've got, but I can you know, I can
see the strain. And another day, I was just selected
by Boston Medical to go to Washington, d C. Next month,
the twenty second and next month for Hill Day with
the American Association of Cancer Institutions and the American Association
(25:46):
of Cancer Research. I just like to ask, you know,
like the impact that this is having at U Michigan
the cuts, because that's what I'm going to Capitol Hill's
to speak about the cuts for research that are happening
right now.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And I.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, let me hold that into a question for you, Frank.
And your story is amazing, Doctor Rounggy. We're dealing with,
you know, the concerns that people have about cutbacks, health
and human services cut backs, amongst others. How your governor,
Governor Whitman, was in the Oval office the other day
with the President, as I'm sure you know, what is
the level of concern out there within the medical community,
(26:28):
within the academic community. Stay there, Frank, don't don't don't
leave we'll get you. If you have a follow up question,
go ahead, Doctor Roggy.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Thanks and Frank, that's great. It's about your pros say cancer,
and it's great to hear you're going to Washington to
testify because this is a big concern, and it's a
concern because some of the proposed legislation or changes would
reduce both access to care as well as reducing some
(26:58):
of the critical research. It's ongoing clinical trials and other
research that is developing the new cures that perhaps helped
you through your prostate cancer. So you know, it's it's
it's something that I know I'm concerned about. We're concerned
about Michigan, but I think everyone is concerned about it,
(27:19):
and I think we need to hope that we can
get things, uh kept on track in terms of medical
research and in support of all healthcare providers. I agree.
I think all all those you listened are its great.
I don't know if you go to one of these
community clinics that's a federally sponsored one, they're called federally
(27:42):
Qualified Health centers. Are those are outstanding clinics and they're
present in you know, every city and in many rural areas.
But again I don't know if that's what you go to,
but there are opportunities out there, but so many of
those depend on federal.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
All right, well, Frank, best of luck, You're a success story.
Just keep at it, okay, and and uh and best
of luck. Have a safe trip to Washington, and let
us know how it goes when you get back.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Okay, I will, I will, thank you very much. I
wish that I had I wish I could have spoken
with doctor with Steve Tinker also because it's like, you know,
directly connected with what is just the cuts.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
But but yeah, this is great professor Pinker, Pinker p
I n K E R. He's been all before and uh,
we'll get some calls for him as well, and you'll
be listening. So I thank you much, Frank, and we
will talk again. Thanks so much. Congratulations on finding justice
and also a cure.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
You're thank thanks thanks for doing this show too.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Dan, very welcome, Thank you, Frank, were good to take
quick break. My guest is doctor Marshall Runkie. He's the
dean of the University of Michigan Medical School.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
There aren't many deans of medical schools around the country.
There are a few of deans of medical schools, and
the rare pro baseball players are pro football players, so
it is a very special class of people. His book,
The Great Healthcare Disruption. Is this a book, Doctor Rungi,
that is geared to medical providers or is this a
book that the general public can benefit from.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
It's mainly geared towards the general public. There's good many
there are details that are maybe helpful for medical providers
in areas that they're not as familiar with. But it's
written with the intention of being accessible by people who
are interested in learning more about their own health and
about healthcare advances.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Excellent, excellent. We'll take a very quick break and we'll
come back for final segment six seven two four ten
thirty six seven nine. And I know no one out
there in Michigan is going to call, but please don't
make don't make a liar out of me. We'll be
back on Night's Side right after this with the dean
of the University of Michigan Medical School, doctor Marshall Runggay.
Back after this quick break.
Speaker 7 (30:01):
This night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's news Radio.
It's Jim from Ace Ticket. I know it can be
so hard and confusing to.
Speaker 8 (30:12):
Buy tickets to concert plays, Boston salv It's or Red
Sox game, or your favorite team. That's why Age Ticket
makes it easy. ACE has been Boston's trustworthy source for
tickets since nineteen seventy nine. We are located right here
in kem Wore Square and we still answer our phone
to provide friendly and helpful customer service.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
And here's the best part. We provide that helpful service
for free.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
We call it service with no service fees.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yes, that's awesome. That's right.
Speaker 8 (30:39):
At ACE Ticket, up prices include fees. Unlike other websites,
we don't try to fool you. We provide upfront pricing.
The first price you see is the price you bet.
So do yourself a favor next time you treat yourself
or someone special. Get the best seats of the lowest prices,
and start paying fees. Buy local and saved one hundred
(31:00):
ninth feat of business aceticket dot Com.
Speaker 9 (31:03):
The twenty twenty five Shriner's Circus is back. Hey, it's
Lori Grandy. I'll be the celebrity ringmaster for the Shriner
Circus on Saturday, April twenty six at ten am. Get
your tickets for that performance. Or one of the other
eight shows during April School Vacation Week at Shriners Circus
dot com. The circus will be at Shriner's Auditorium in
Wilmington from April twenty fourth to the twenty seventh. Tickets
(31:25):
are only twenty dollars and parking is free. Purchase tickets
today at Shriner's Circus dot Com at shriner Circus dot com.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
In business, your dream is to succeed. Every move you
make brings you closer to that goal. At Enterprise Bag,
we work as your trusted advisor. We offer expert commercial
linding solutions and innovative cash management tools to optimize your finances.
At Help you Succeed at Enterprise Bank Relationships Matter Enterprise Bang,
(31:57):
Create your success member reft see equal housing lender.
Speaker 6 (32:02):
Hey guys, Billy cost to hear money, money and more
of it gonna be out there for twenty twenty five,
and it could be yours. The Massachusetts State Treasurer's Office
has a program that returns your unclaimed funds back to you.
Visit finemassmoney dot gov, search your name and see if
you have unclaimed property. But don't stop there. Once you
claim your money and get the PaperWorks. Submit it right away.
(32:24):
Don't wait. I found money, My friend's family found money,
and you could as well. If you've checked before, check
again claim your money today at fine massmoney dot gov.
Speaker 10 (32:33):
It's Warrendale Applies of Waltham Store White Savis Event. Yes,
all month long, you'll say big on every single applies
and mattress in the store. This special Store White Savis
Event means there's no better time than right now to
get into Wardale Applies of Waltham. So come in today
and you'll see why Wardale is still and will always
be New England's somber one choice for applies, as and mattresses.
There's never been a better time than now to save
(32:55):
big on everything in the store. Hurry, it's all going
on all month long only. Award Hell Applies to Waltdam
war Dell Applies One's seventy High Street Waltdam.
Speaker 11 (33:03):
Play more, earn more, win more at Encore Boston Harbor.
Send up for win rewards today and score fifty dollars
in free play instantly score even more as your play
your favorite games. New members will also receive twenty five
dollars in free play for every one hundred tieer credits
are in playing with your new win rewards card highly
rewarding instantly. Visit on core Boston Harbor dot com for
more information. New members only for the terms and conditions apply.
(33:25):
If you were left one to experience and probably with gampling,
it needs a work called EIGHTP three twoeved and fifty
fifty ars a game in uline any dot or to
speak for the train specialist.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Specialists avail twenty for seven.
Speaker 11 (33:31):
Services are freeconfidential, want avail to multiple anguages.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Back with doctor Marshall Rongey, the Dean of the University
of Michigan Medical School. We're talking about innovations in the
medical field and also the paucity of primary care physicians.
Don't mean to be too illiterative there, but I'll tell
you try to find a primary care physician in internist
to whatever characters you want. It is very, very difficult,
(34:03):
even for retiring doctors themselves, as I found out a
few days ago in a conversation with a retired doctor.
Let me go next to Peter Is in Weston, Massachusetts. Peter, welcome,
You are next on nice Eye with doctor ed. Doctor Marshall. Rungy,
go right ahead, Peter.
Speaker 12 (34:19):
Great, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Dan Hey.
Speaker 12 (34:20):
First of all, great show tonight, everything from cybersecurity to healthcare.
Really impressed with your guest this evening. So thanks first
of all, big shadout to doctor Rungy Goblue as a
proud University of Michigan graduate. I mean he's been calling
from ann Arbor. But I'm right down the road from you,
and I have a son graduating from Michigan in about
two weeks, so I'll be an ann Arbors graduation.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Awesome, go Blue, So about as close as the.
Speaker 12 (34:44):
Call you'll get from ann Arbor. So my question really
is related to this scarcity of primary care physicians. Right
I myself here in the Boston area you'd consider to
be an epicenter of healthcare.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
I've lost two.
Speaker 12 (34:55):
Primary care physicians to concierge practices. And what I've found,
and this trend, is that more and more people like
myself are going to urgent care minic clinic to get
their primary care taken care of. Can you talk a
little bit about that trend and how more and more
I guess patients they're just kind of losing patients. Pardon
the punt with their primary lack of primary care and
(35:16):
just heading off to their local minic clinic or urgent care,
which you see all over the place.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Now, you bring up a really excellent point. And certainly
there are primary care physicians who are going into concierge
care in part because it allows them to have a
smaller patient panel and they don't feel so stressed. But
it takes away from the access that people have for
primary care physicians. And I think you can get good
(35:43):
health to care a lot of places. What the biggest
concern I have and I think that people run into,
is fragmentation of their care. So if you go to
a minic clinic one time, or you go to an
urge care another time, you don't really have any one
person who's following all your health problems and who's gathering
all your information so that if you run into a
(36:04):
complicated problem, they know what how to fit that into
your medical history. I think almost every healthcare provider I
know is dedicated and wants to provide the best care
that we can. But it gets complicated if you get
your if your only alternative it is to get your
care in multiple places.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Is it even possible to develop a medical history by
going to urgent care clinics and Adam, I'm not using
that phrase in terms of a trademark phrase. You go
in and you don't feel well, they take your pulse
and they give you some prescription, but they're not doing
your blood work in all likelihood unless it's a you know,
how do you get your blood work done without a
(36:46):
primary care physician on an annual basis? I don't even
understand how if you go in and say I want
my blood work done, I don't think it's a primary
care facility they're going to do that. How do you
do this? How do you accomplish this?
Speaker 12 (36:56):
Peter, Well, you know it's my understand and your electronic
health record does follow you. You know, there's this whole
thing right now from yeah, yeah, I guess is that
yeah ahead?
Speaker 2 (37:08):
No, But I'm saying, if you're my doctors with partners
Gateway right, and so he's associated with Mass General. But
if I go to a primary care place on the
Cape because you know, I've had a be sting, that's fine,
that's fine, But I'm not going to go in there
and say, gee, I haven't seen a doctor in a year.
Can I get a physical I'm not sure do those
(37:28):
primary care locations or urgent care locations do they do
annual physicals and stuff like that that that any good
PCP is going to do.
Speaker 12 (37:36):
For you, believe it or not, they will do that,
you know, if you can't get an appointment. For example,
I have two kids I mentioned one is that Michigan.
I stually both of them are at Michigan. To be honest,
one of the senior ones a freshmen, both graduated from
the Western public schools. If you could not get an
appointment in time for them to be approved to play
their high school sports, you go down urgent care and
get the same physical for them to be allowed to
(37:57):
do that. So that is one example of I think
how how I think patients are finding that care of
care availability UH in a more convenient way. And I
think there's this whole trend towards the consumerzation of healthcare.
There's something to be said when we know more about
our uber drivers than we do about you know, our
local positions, right, I mean, how we don't have access
to this information you know, in the in our in
(38:19):
our smartphones, the same way we do with everything else
we do, whether it's our banking, our car services, our
food delivery. I just think healthcare has.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
To catch up.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Yeah, right ahead, doctor Peter. I think this is a
you bring up really important questions and comments, and uh,
I think you're you're right. I'd make another point or two,
which is we do have electronic medical records, but something
that has been talked about for years and it's not accomplished.
(38:49):
Just what's called interoperability, where even if you have the
same epic medical record in one place, it may not
talk to the epic medical record in another place. Epic
is a common medical correct but you know these are solvable,
and the last time I look, I think they're forty
or the new infants into healthcare where you can get
(39:11):
immediate access now a lot of times over the telephone
or over zoom, but immediate access, and so I think
connecting all those is something we must pay attention to.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
The other comment I want to make in that is
that on occasion when either I have had to go
to an emergency room, or my wife had went to
an emergency room, or one of my children went to
an emergency room, it's never convenient. I mean, you're always
going to wait two, three, four or five hours. My
brother broke his knee a year ago in June, his
(39:45):
former state police lieutenant, and he fell and fractured his kneecap.
He ended up waiting about twelve hours in an emergency
room before a doctor would even see him. I mean,
it was insane in terms of the amount of people. Now,
who are you using e ers as their their PCPs? Peter? Great? Great,
when'd you graduate from Michigan? Were you were there when
(40:07):
I'm Tom Brady time.
Speaker 12 (40:11):
A long time ago?
Speaker 10 (40:11):
I was.
Speaker 12 (40:12):
I was probably right before the Tom Brady era. But
I will say we won the national championship in basketball
nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
A local.
Speaker 12 (40:21):
Was one of the stars of that team. That's right afterwards.
But a great squad. And I really appreciate your your
your program, Dan and doctor Rangky outstanding guest obviously. Anyone
who's a Michigan man is gonna be a great guest.
And hopefully I'll bump into your Ingerman when I'm out
there in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
I hopeful we get again to see each other.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah, Peter, the introduction has been made, Peter, the invitation
has been saying, so take advantage of it. You'd be
crazy not to thank you. Peter, thanks so muchciate it,
don't you run? Yeah? I tell you how much I
appreciate you. Thanks, Peter, can't tell you much. I appreciate
the time that you've spent with us tonight. You're extraordinary
and I really mean that. Let me just again encourage people.
(41:03):
The book that will come out on May sixth, but
I'm sure it's available in advance.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Now.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
That's the way the books work these days. Correct. If
someone wants to get this, they can probably get it
on Amazon tonight and get a shipped tomorrow. The Great
Healthcare Disruption is the name of the book, Doctor Marshall,
rungy are you nnge? I wish a huge success with
the book, and maybe maybe I can convince you to
come back sometime in the fall and we can have
(41:29):
a little update on how the medical community is doing
and how the book sales are going. How's that.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
I'd love to Dan and thank you for having me
on the show. I really enjoy hearing your thoughts and
those are your guests. It's been great.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Well, we have great guests, and we do have people
listening in Michigan. Believe it or not, this is a big,
powerful and I'm disappointed in my Michigan people who didn't
get a chancet didn't have the courage to call it tonight,
Doctor Rungky, again, thanks very much, and congratulations on the
success of the Detroit Tigers so far. Don't know if
it's going to last, but they're playing. They're playing a
(42:05):
lot better than had been expected, so congratulations ranks.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Yeah, they're looking good, right.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Doctor Marshall Rocky, the Dean of the University of Michigan
Medical School, an extraordinary guest. We'll be talking with Professor
Steve Stephen Pinker of Harvard University right after the ten
o'clock news here on Nightside
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Bzy Boston's Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thank you, Dan Watkins. Just a little over a week ago,
we had this guest that's coming up on with us
and we were had the fortune to talk with doctor
Marshall Rungi, who is the dean of the University of
Michigan Medical School, and I just felt that it would
be great to bring him back, and he is consented
(00:28):
to come back and take some phone calls. Doctor Runky,
welcome back. You have a book that is just about
to come out. I don't know if it's I think
it's public published. Publicity date or published date is May sixth,
coming up May sixth, a couple of weeks from now.
Is that the deal?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yes, Dan, And it's great to be back on your
show again. Thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh our pleasure. So your book is The Great Healthcare Disruption.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And you this is not your first book as I
understand it.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Correct, No, it's not.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
It's a new venture for me. Forges Books called me
up and asked me if I wanted to write a
book about where I thought healthcare was going in the
next five to ten years and pick some important topics.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
And it was.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
A great project to work on.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, my test thinning is that you look at the
recent technological advances, policy changes, and different business models. Let's
break that down a little bit in our conversation to
language that lay people can understand. We talked earlier about
how difficult it is to find a personal care physician
(01:37):
what we call PCBs, PCPs or family doctors back here.
Doctors are retiring at a very fast rate. The doctors
that were produced through the baby boom. They're hanging the
stethoscopes up. I had lunched the other day with a
doctor friend of mine who retired a few years ago,
(01:59):
and irust him about the fact that it's tough to
get a doctor these days, no matter how old you are.
And he was saying that he knew of a PCP,
you know, general practitioner who retired and she cannot find
a doctor herself. So in the midst of all of
the renovations, you know, the new renovations, the technological renovations
(02:22):
that we're that we're talking about, just getting a doctor's tough.
So let's talk about some of these advances. Let's talk
about the good ones first. What are the developments that
you see that are clearly going to be positive going forward.
In the terms of.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Healthcare, well, I think there are several I do think finally,
after a long time, there's much attention being paid to
how we need to educate more doctors, and particularly those
who are going to do primary care, so family medicine, doctors,
in general internals, general pediatricians. Because if you look at
(03:02):
there are all different kinds of ways to measure it.
But if you look at the number of primary care
physicians per one thousand in the United States, that's about
point three to one. But if you look at our
peer countries, sort of the high income advanced countries, their
numbers are up to five or ten times as many
(03:22):
primary care physicians. And I think that one of the
things that we really need to focus on is helping
people be healthy. Now we have great healthcare. If I'm
going to be terribly sick, I'd rather be in the
United States than anywhere else. But you're absolutely right, it's
hard to find a primary care doctor, and we need
(03:44):
to increase the number of people in those areas, and
I think there are ways to do it, and I
think we need to do more to try to keep
people healthy so they don't have to go to the office,
so that's.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Why they bought. But the number that you just gave,
I want to break that down. You're saying that for
every primary care physician in this country, per one thousand people,
there is zero point three to one. So that means
that every primary care physician in this country, you've got
to triple that thousand. There's one primary care physician for
(04:17):
about every three thousand people, which is crazy. I think
that's y. Yes, that's too much for anyone to handle,
which is why so many people now their primary care
physician is the local emergency room. We've gotten into that
situation too, by the way, which is kind of the
flip side of that ugly coin.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yes, you're you're absolutely right, Dan. And the other problem
with the merchaningy rooms. I mean, there they provide great care,
but it's very expensive. But the biggest part is you
lose that continuity that you would have with a physician
that you know, a doctor that you know, so because
you go to the Mercury moom, it could be whoever
(04:59):
happens to be working on on that shift. I do
go ahead, let me.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Ask you one question. One of the solutions that I
think the medical community was suggesting UH to make up
for the shortfall of internist pediatricians and primary care physicians,
the doctor who you go to see on a regular basis,
UH is saying, well, we'll graduate people who are known
(05:24):
as UH. You know, medical assistants are are what what
is I'm trying to think of the phrase they're not
quite doctors, but their physicians assistance is the phrase I'm thinking. Yeah,
it's sort of in the spectrum. You know, I love nurses,
but between becoming a doctor or a nurse, they have
(05:45):
these folks are now physicians assistants. Has that experiment run
its course and either succeeded or failed.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
It has in general succeeded and both for physicians assistants
and and UH. In nursing there are what are called
advanced practice nurses who are nurse practitioners, and that has
been very helpful. And actually, in many rural areas or
underserved areas, they the physician's assistants or nurse practitioners. They're
(06:18):
they're they're they're the primary care provider in those areas
because there just aren't enough doctors to who live there
who want to practice medicine there. So I think it
has been a it's been an important solution, and but
it's not enough. And I think that a problem that
I think we touched on briefly before Dan was that
(06:39):
physicians just feeling worn out, burned out. And there are
some technologies that I think are going to be really helpful.
One of those has to do with AI. So there's
a technology called ambient AI that's used in healthcare. Now,
it's not widely used, but it's we're using it in
(06:59):
the Versus Michigan. What it does is it listens to
the conversation between the doctor and the patient, or the
nurse practitioner or the physician's assistant and the patient, and
it doesn't just transcribe it. It transforms it into a
really high quality medical note. For all of us who've
(07:20):
played around with AI, it's just amazing how it can
summarize things and make it very logical. And so what
that helps with is I don't know about you, but
when I go to see my interness, generally he's facing
the other way. He's a great doctor, he's facing the
other way. He's tpping on his computer trying to keep up.
(07:41):
And most primary care physicians say at the end of
the day, they have two or three hours worth of
documentation left. If they use this technology that I was
just just they could be done when their clinic is done.
Those notes are churned out by the time, but within
a minute or two of when they finish their patient
counter that can prove it, read it, correct it, and
(08:02):
go on to the next questient. So there are technologies
like that that they help, okay, and.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
So those that ambient AI produces a document which isn't
just sort of like a verbatim transcription of the entirety
of the conversation. It is able because it's artificial intelligence
to isolate the portions of the conversation that are important
to the doctor and to the patient, and it's then
(08:29):
presented in a form that looks more like a form
that the doctor would would produce, not just the transcript.
How you're doing today, what's going on? Those Tigers keep winning,
They're going to be a good team this year. That
is not what's going to be trans We're going to
be I assumed they're gonna They're gonna separate the wheat
from the chaff, is what I'm trying to say. If
(08:49):
it's if it's it really is artificial intelligence exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
And I'll tell you another interesting factor of what AI
is bringing forward and announces medical records. If you have
requested your medical record, or you look at your medical record,
it can be page after page after page after page
of stuff that's just kind of piled on, and you
can put that into an AI reader and interpreter and
(09:20):
it can come up with a very powerful but concise
summary of all the important things. And so rather than
you having to look through or your doctor having to
looked through fifteen pages, they it's a page and it
has or maybe a page in a half, and it
has everything that you need to do.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, you know, doctor Ronki. I'm a keeper of records.
I have in my office my medical records, okay by
year and obviously over time. Some of them do provide
insight out of importance. Others are just repetitive or unnecessary.
(10:00):
And if there was a machine, I could see these
records and I actually make up when I have the time,
charts and graphs for myself, so I can look at, well,
what was my what was my blood pressure? What was
my cholesterol five years ago, ten years ago? Is there
anything that is trending in a bad direction. I assume
this is the sort of artificial intelligence that they could
(10:20):
do that for me.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yes, But I have to tell you, Dan, you're like
the perfect patient. I'm a cardiologist and for somebody who
wants to follow what they're doing and knows what's going on.
You know that that's my day when I see somebody
like you. But you could try this experiment. You could
take your you know, take a pile of your medical
records and you can make a PDF of it, drag
(10:43):
it over into chat, GPT and FAY summarize the important
components of my medical record, show my blood pressure results
over the past five years or whatever you want to
look at. Are you my blood work, and it'll do it,
and it'll.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Do it in minutes.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
It is I try because I was just interested. Does
it really work? And it really works?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
You're the dean of a medical school. Of course, you
got to try that. My guest is doctor Marshall Rangy.
His book is The Great health Care Disruption. It's it's
published by Forbes Books. It's coming out on May sixth.
I assume it's available now through Amazon and places like that.
We have a lot to cover. If you'd like to
join the conversation six one, seven, two, five, four ten
(11:28):
thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. It's
not often on night Side, and I've had a lot
of guests over eighteen years. I haven't had too many
deans of medical schools, nor any dean of medical school
who is who is a fluid and as understandable. Uh
as doctor Rungy and Uh, I'm delighted he's back. We'll
(11:49):
get some phone calls. Any question you might have, feel free.
As I keep telling you that, as I learned in
law school, the only questions that are dumb questions are
the ones that you're too afraid to ask because they
always came up on the midterms or in the final exam.
So if you have any question, you know he's not
going to diagnose you. Over the year. You understand the
ground rules at Nightside that regard to okay, but if
(12:13):
you have a question, feel free. We'll be back on
Nightside with doctor Marshall RUNGI.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Right after this, you're on Night Side with Dan Ray
on wz Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
We will get to phone because I promise, but I
just have one more segment that i'd like to talk
with Doctor Marshall rungy about. He is the dean of
the medical school at the University of Michigan, which is
a great university for anyone who doesn't understand it is
one of the pre eminent universities in this country. I
(12:47):
just want to touch briefly, and we only have about
four minutes until the newscast. Five minutes to the newscast.
Here just to give a perspective, how many students does
the University of Michigan. How many seats do you have
for students coming in as a first year medical student
that you can admit.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Every year, we admit about one hundred and seventy student.
It varies a little bit from year to year, but
one hundred and seventy a year, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And how many students apply for those one hundred and
seventy seats?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Oh golly, I bet it's competitive. It's close to ten
thousand people apply for those Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Very co If it's ten thousand people who apply, most
of whom I assume have conquered organic chemistry. You're talking
about an admission rate of one point seven percent. If
I'm doing my math, if.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I that's probably right. Your math is faster than mine.
But I think that sounds right. Yes, it's a very
low admission, right.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, if it was a thousand seats for ten thousand,
it would be ten percent. This is this is over
one and a half percent, one point seven percent. And
how many of those students who you because you only
have so many seats, who you cannot physically accept that
(14:14):
you have to reluctantly deny. How many of them do
you think seek a medical career elsewhere, if if at
other medical schools, or if necessary offshore. You and I
have talked about the offshore medical schools before. I just
want people to understand that that these are qualified students.
I mean the you know, I assume that a good
(14:38):
percentage of those students could handle you know, the medical
school experience, but you just don't have the seats.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yes, that's correct, Dan. We on an average year, we
feel there are five or six hundred very high quality candidates,
you know, after we go to this pool. But the
number is so high because now, as with college applications,
a person can apply to thirty different places, and so
we get a lot of there are a lot of
(15:09):
people applying to different medical schools. But I would estimate
the number of highly qualified candidates in the United States
exceeds the number of positions in US medical schools by
at least two or threefolds.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Much higher.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
And a lot of those folks end up going to
medical schools that are called offshore medical schools. I guess
they can go to schools in Canada if those schools
are available, they are Canadian residents. How do we rectify this?
How do we get in this situation where there are
kids who are who are knocking at the door and
they and they want to be doctors, and we don't
(15:51):
have the capacity to educate them well. University of Michigan,
I'm talking about we as a society.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yes, I think there are a couple of issues. One
is medical school education, like all education, who's gotten highly regulated.
And some of that's positive and some of it's not
a positive. But one of the things that has resulted
in is I think our medical school classes are smaller
than they could be. I think we have the capacity
(16:19):
the University of Michigan, both the capacity for the more
scientific parts of it as well as the capacity to
train in different practice locations, different hospitals. We could train
twice as many people and I think that's probably true
in most medical schools. But there's concern about is that
(16:42):
too many, too many students for us to give the
knobable experience. The regulatory agencies, the Licensing commit Commission for
Medical Education LCME, it's very difficult to increase the size
of your class, and so I think we need to
take a look at that and say, why can't we
do more? Because we need more physicians, really, really in
(17:04):
every specialty. The number of physicians is inadequate in the
United States. And this dates back, oh more than twenty
years when studies were done under the belief that certain
changes in healthcare were going to result in far much
lower need for physicians. And that just turned out to
be a wrong assumption. So we need direct that and
(17:26):
part of that's on us. Part of it's on me.
I've been trying to get us to increase the size
of our medical school class. But it's a state Hills time.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, your class at the University of Michigan admits one
hundred and seventy Here in Massachusetts, Michael Collins is the
dean out there, and doctor Collins tells me it's a
hard cap at one and twenty. Now I know Michigan's
a bigger state than Massachusetts. But I think that that
you're doing pretty well compared to Massachusetts. And whoever came
(17:58):
up with that idea that they would need fewer doctors
with the baby boomers now aging wasn't. Didn't anybody look
at the birth certificates from the birth rates from the
late forties and early fifties and do some man on that.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
I mean, clearly, I can only plead innocent. I wasn't
part of those studies.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
No, I'm sure you were. I'm sure you weren't. But
whoever was, I think that they did do some calculations.
Were getting to take a break at it to get
some news here will we want to talk more with
doctor Marshall Runggy. He's the dean of the University of
Michigan Medical School, a great medical school. His book The
Great Healthcare Disruption, published by Forbes Books, available May sixth,
(18:40):
twenty twenty five. I'm sure you can get it through
Forbes Books. You can get it at Amazon. You can
order it. It's coming out on May sixth. That probably
there's there's pre orders available. We're going to talk a
little bit about the book two when we get back
some of the transformation that doctor Rungi said is really necessary.
(19:01):
We'll get to all of that and also get to
some phone calls. I promise if you'd like to get
on board now, you'll be guaranteed to get a chance
to chat. If you wait, you may we may run
out of time because we have Professor Stephen Pinker of
Harvard University psychologists at Harvard University joining us at ten
o'clock to talk about the Trump administration's efforts or threats
(19:23):
to take the tax exempt status away from Harvard University.
Steve Pinker has been on the show before. He is
no flaming radical at all. He's been very critical of
some of the actions of the administration at Harvard, particularly
as it related to some of the demonstration's last spring,
(19:44):
the EI initiatives, et cetera. But he feels that it
is an overstretch, overreach for the government to begin to
withdraw tax exempt status from an institution like Harvard, for
that matter, for really almost any institution, health care, facilit university,
a place of worship. We'll get to all of that,
I promise, if you'd like to jump on board six one, seven, two, five, four, ten,
(20:08):
thirty six one seven, nine three, one, ten thirty. And
if you are a college student out there who might
be listening and are thinking about practicing medicine, this is
an opportunity not to plead your case for acceptance to
the University of Michigan, but you certainly can ask the
dean what courses perhaps are would be most helpful to
see on your resume and what you might be able
(20:30):
to do at an extracurricular basis which might stand you
out apart from all of the other highly qualified applicants.
Back on Nightside the number six one, seven, two, five
four ten thirty or six one, seven, nine three one
ten thirty. Back on Nightside right after the news.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
So you're on night Side with Dan Ray.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I'm w b Z, Boston's news Radio, delighted to have
with us as my guest this hour, doctor Marshall Rungi.
He is the dean of the University of Michigan Medical School.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Doctor Ronki, we actually have listeners in Michigan, and I'm
hoping one or two of them might pick up the
phone tonight just so they that you will believe what
I'm talking about. We have listened all over the country.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
And this is a problem that does exist all over
the country. Is there anywhere in America, in your opinion
or within your knowledge, where it is easier to get
a new doctor if your doctor happens to retire or
move move the practice out of town, or is this
a problem that exists almost everywhere?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Then I think it's almost everywhere, and in particular to
get a new primary care doctor. Now, in many cities
there's a more of a concentration of specialists, and it
may be easier to find a specialist in large cities
than it is in smaller, smaller towns or rural areas.
(21:56):
But the problem with finding the primary care doctor is everywhere.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah. And that is the foundation upon which any person
needs to build their medical care in my opinion, because
it's that primary care doctor that is going to spot
things in your on your chart or just during your
annual visit or your semi annual visit with the blood
(22:22):
test and see some number is going in the wrong direction.
Let me let's let's get some callers in here as
well as our conversation. If it's okay, We're going to
go first to Frank, who is calling not from Michigan
but from South Boston. Frank, You're on with doctor Marshall Roungy.
He's the dean of the University of Michigan Medical School
and the author of a new book, The Great Healthcare Disruption.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Hey, Dan, thank you for taking my call, and thank
you doctor Rungi for doing this. I think this is
a great topic and very interesting. It's very close to me.
I'd like to preface this with all about a year ago, Dan,
I spent twenty one years in prison on a wrong
for conviction. I've been out for twenty four years, but
(23:08):
I've been so foretratulation.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Did you know you're over there with Fred Weichel in
South Boston who was in the same situation or a
similar situation. And I'm sure you know the cases that
I worked on, the Silvadi Lamoni case. Did you get
did you ever get compensation from the Colnwealth of Massachusetts?
Assume was a state conviction.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
It was, it was, and I didn't get as much
as I would have liked, But yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
But what I just like, Okay, well, congratulations, I hope,
I hope you got good medical care when you were
in prison. That's one of the benefits of being in prison.
There is a medical care. But how are you doing
okay right now? I hope medically.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Yeah. And if I was still in prison, I wouldn't
be alive today. But I'd like to say, you know, I,
first of all, doctor Ruggie my my, I'm a cancer survivor.
I've been cancer free. I was diagnosed at the beginning
of COVID and stage three prostate cancer and went to
(24:12):
forty four radiation treatments with a student from University of Michigan,
my urologist, doctor Mark Katz, who's like one of the
top one hundred doctors in Massachusetts. But I'm so blessed
to have the team of doctors. I am lucky, you know,
to have the team of doctors because I know how
(24:32):
hard it is to get a PCP. I've had the
same PCP at South Boston Community Health Center for about
fourteen years. She's an angel. She diag you know, she said,
you know, there's something wrong here and sent me in
and I saw the urologist and it went from there.
But and I with the you know, the lack of
(25:00):
primary care physicians, there's more more and more you see
more PA's doing stuff, more nas and more d os
osteopathic medicine doctors and they're all great, you know, but
I mean the strain. I can see it here in
South Boston and it's a great, great community health center
(25:22):
that we've got, but I can you know, I can
see the strain. And another day, I was just selected
by Boston Medical to go to Washington, d C. Next month,
the twenty second and next month for Hill Day with
the American Association of Cancer Institutions and the American Association
(25:46):
of Cancer Research. I just like to ask, you know,
like the impact that this is having at U Michigan
the cuts, because that's what I'm going to Capitol Hill's
to speak about the cuts for research that are happening
right now.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And I.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, let me hold that into a question for you, Frank.
And your story is amazing, Doctor Rounggy. We're dealing with,
you know, the concerns that people have about cutbacks, health
and human services cut backs, amongst others. How your governor,
Governor Whitman, was in the Oval office the other day
with the President, as I'm sure you know, what is
the level of concern out there within the medical community,
(26:28):
within the academic community. Stay there, Frank, don't don't don't
leave we'll get you. If you have a follow up question,
go ahead, Doctor Roggy.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Thanks and Frank, that's great. It's about your pros say cancer,
and it's great to hear you're going to Washington to
testify because this is a big concern, and it's a
concern because some of the proposed legislation or changes would
reduce both access to care as well as reducing some
(26:58):
of the critical research. It's ongoing clinical trials and other
research that is developing the new cures that perhaps helped
you through your prostate cancer. So you know, it's it's
it's something that I know I'm concerned about. We're concerned
about Michigan, but I think everyone is concerned about it,
(27:19):
and I think we need to hope that we can
get things, uh kept on track in terms of medical
research and in support of all healthcare providers. I agree.
I think all all those you listened are its great.
I don't know if you go to one of these
community clinics that's a federally sponsored one, they're called federally
(27:42):
Qualified Health centers. Are those are outstanding clinics and they're
present in you know, every city and in many rural areas.
But again I don't know if that's what you go to,
but there are opportunities out there, but so many of
those depend on federal.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
All right, well, Frank, best of luck, You're a success story.
Just keep at it, okay, and and uh and best
of luck. Have a safe trip to Washington, and let
us know how it goes when you get back.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Okay, I will, I will, thank you very much. I
wish that I had I wish I could have spoken
with doctor with Steve Tinker also because it's like, you know,
directly connected with what is just the cuts.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
But but yeah, this is great professor Pinker, Pinker p
I n K E R. He's been all before and uh,
we'll get some calls for him as well, and you'll
be listening. So I thank you much, Frank, and we
will talk again. Thanks so much. Congratulations on finding justice
and also a cure.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
You're thank thanks thanks for doing this show too.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Dan, very welcome, Thank you, Frank, were good to take
quick break. My guest is doctor Marshall Runkie. He's the
dean of the University of Michigan Medical School.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
There aren't many deans of medical schools around the country.
There are a few of deans of medical schools, and
the rare pro baseball players are pro football players, so
it is a very special class of people. His book,
The Great Healthcare Disruption. Is this a book, Doctor Rungi,
that is geared to medical providers or is this a
book that the general public can benefit from.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
It's mainly geared towards the general public. There's good many
there are details that are maybe helpful for medical providers
in areas that they're not as familiar with. But it's
written with the intention of being accessible by people who
are interested in learning more about their own health and
about healthcare advances.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Excellent, excellent. We'll take a very quick break and we'll
come back for final segment six seven two four ten
thirty six seven nine. And I know no one out
there in Michigan is going to call, but please don't
make don't make a liar out of me. We'll be
back on Night's Side right after this with the dean
of the University of Michigan Medical School, doctor Marshall Runggay.
Back after this quick break.
Speaker 7 (30:01):
This night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's news Radio.
It's Jim from Ace Ticket. I know it can be
so hard and confusing to.
Speaker 8 (30:12):
Buy tickets to concert plays, Boston salv It's or Red
Sox game, or your favorite team. That's why Age Ticket
makes it easy. ACE has been Boston's trustworthy source for
tickets since nineteen seventy nine. We are located right here
in kem Wore Square and we still answer our phone
to provide friendly and helpful customer service.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
And here's the best part. We provide that helpful service
for free.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
We call it service with no service fees.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yes, that's awesome. That's right.
Speaker 8 (30:39):
At ACE Ticket, up prices include fees. Unlike other websites,
we don't try to fool you. We provide upfront pricing.
The first price you see is the price you bet.
So do yourself a favor next time you treat yourself
or someone special. Get the best seats of the lowest prices,
and start paying fees. Buy local and saved one hundred
(31:00):
ninth feat of business aceticket dot Com.
Speaker 9 (31:03):
The twenty twenty five Shriner's Circus is back. Hey, it's
Lori Grandy. I'll be the celebrity ringmaster for the Shriner
Circus on Saturday, April twenty six at ten am. Get
your tickets for that performance. Or one of the other
eight shows during April School Vacation Week at Shriners Circus
dot com. The circus will be at Shriner's Auditorium in
Wilmington from April twenty fourth to the twenty seventh. Tickets
(31:25):
are only twenty dollars and parking is free. Purchase tickets
today at Shriner's Circus dot Com at shriner Circus dot com.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
In business, your dream is to succeed. Every move you
make brings you closer to that goal. At Enterprise Bag,
we work as your trusted advisor. We offer expert commercial
linding solutions and innovative cash management tools to optimize your finances.
At Help you Succeed at Enterprise Bank Relationships Matter Enterprise Bang,
(31:57):
Create your success member reft see equal housing lender.
Speaker 6 (32:02):
Hey guys, Billy cost to hear money, money and more
of it gonna be out there for twenty twenty five,
and it could be yours. The Massachusetts State Treasurer's Office
has a program that returns your unclaimed funds back to you.
Visit finemassmoney dot gov, search your name and see if
you have unclaimed property. But don't stop there. Once you
claim your money and get the PaperWorks. Submit it right away.
(32:24):
Don't wait. I found money, My friend's family found money,
and you could as well. If you've checked before, check
again claim your money today at fine massmoney dot gov.
Speaker 10 (32:33):
It's Warrendale Applies of Waltham Store White Savis Event. Yes,
all month long, you'll say big on every single applies
and mattress in the store. This special Store White Savis
Event means there's no better time than right now to
get into Wardale Applies of Waltham. So come in today
and you'll see why Wardale is still and will always
be New England's somber one choice for applies, as and mattresses.
There's never been a better time than now to save
(32:55):
big on everything in the store. Hurry, it's all going
on all month long only. Award Hell Applies to Waltdam
war Dell Applies One's seventy High Street Waltdam.
Speaker 11 (33:03):
Play more, earn more, win more at Encore Boston Harbor.
Send up for win rewards today and score fifty dollars
in free play instantly score even more as your play
your favorite games. New members will also receive twenty five
dollars in free play for every one hundred tieer credits
are in playing with your new win rewards card highly
rewarding instantly. Visit on core Boston Harbor dot com for
more information. New members only for the terms and conditions apply.
(33:25):
If you were left one to experience and probably with gampling,
it needs a work called EIGHTP three twoeved and fifty
fifty ars a game in uline any dot or to
speak for the train specialist.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Specialists avail twenty for seven.
Speaker 11 (33:31):
Services are freeconfidential, want avail to multiple anguages.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Back with doctor Marshall Rongey, the Dean of the University
of Michigan Medical School. We're talking about innovations in the
medical field and also the paucity of primary care physicians.
Don't mean to be too illiterative there, but I'll tell
you try to find a primary care physician in internist
to whatever characters you want. It is very, very difficult,
(34:03):
even for retiring doctors themselves, as I found out a
few days ago in a conversation with a retired doctor.
Let me go next to Peter Is in Weston, Massachusetts. Peter, welcome,
You are next on nice Eye with doctor ed. Doctor Marshall. Rungy,
go right ahead, Peter.
Speaker 12 (34:19):
Great, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Dan Hey.
Speaker 12 (34:20):
First of all, great show tonight, everything from cybersecurity to healthcare.
Really impressed with your guest this evening. So thanks first
of all, big shadout to doctor Rungy Goblue as a
proud University of Michigan graduate. I mean he's been calling
from ann Arbor. But I'm right down the road from you,
and I have a son graduating from Michigan in about
two weeks, so I'll be an ann Arbors graduation.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Awesome, go Blue, So about as close as the.
Speaker 12 (34:44):
Call you'll get from ann Arbor. So my question really
is related to this scarcity of primary care physicians. Right
I myself here in the Boston area you'd consider to
be an epicenter of healthcare.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
I've lost two.
Speaker 12 (34:55):
Primary care physicians to concierge practices. And what I've found,
and this trend, is that more and more people like
myself are going to urgent care minic clinic to get
their primary care taken care of. Can you talk a
little bit about that trend and how more and more
I guess patients they're just kind of losing patients. Pardon
the punt with their primary lack of primary care and
(35:16):
just heading off to their local minic clinic or urgent care,
which you see all over the place.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Now, you bring up a really excellent point. And certainly
there are primary care physicians who are going into concierge
care in part because it allows them to have a
smaller patient panel and they don't feel so stressed. But
it takes away from the access that people have for
primary care physicians. And I think you can get good
(35:43):
health to care a lot of places. What the biggest
concern I have and I think that people run into,
is fragmentation of their care. So if you go to
a minic clinic one time, or you go to an
urge care another time, you don't really have any one
person who's following all your health problems and who's gathering
all your information so that if you run into a
(36:04):
complicated problem, they know what how to fit that into
your medical history. I think almost every healthcare provider I
know is dedicated and wants to provide the best care
that we can. But it gets complicated if you get
your if your only alternative it is to get your
care in multiple places.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Is it even possible to develop a medical history by
going to urgent care clinics and Adam, I'm not using
that phrase in terms of a trademark phrase. You go
in and you don't feel well, they take your pulse
and they give you some prescription, but they're not doing
your blood work in all likelihood unless it's a you know,
how do you get your blood work done without a
(36:46):
primary care physician on an annual basis? I don't even
understand how if you go in and say I want
my blood work done, I don't think it's a primary
care facility they're going to do that. How do you
do this? How do you accomplish this?
Speaker 12 (36:56):
Peter, Well, you know it's my understand and your electronic
health record does follow you. You know, there's this whole
thing right now from yeah, yeah, I guess is that
yeah ahead?
Speaker 2 (37:08):
No, But I'm saying, if you're my doctors with partners
Gateway right, and so he's associated with Mass General. But
if I go to a primary care place on the
Cape because you know, I've had a be sting, that's fine,
that's fine, But I'm not going to go in there
and say, gee, I haven't seen a doctor in a year.
Can I get a physical I'm not sure do those
(37:28):
primary care locations or urgent care locations do they do
annual physicals and stuff like that that that any good
PCP is going to do.
Speaker 12 (37:36):
For you, believe it or not, they will do that,
you know, if you can't get an appointment. For example,
I have two kids I mentioned one is that Michigan.
I stually both of them are at Michigan. To be honest,
one of the senior ones a freshmen, both graduated from
the Western public schools. If you could not get an
appointment in time for them to be approved to play
their high school sports, you go down urgent care and
get the same physical for them to be allowed to
(37:57):
do that. So that is one example of I think
how how I think patients are finding that care of
care availability UH in a more convenient way. And I
think there's this whole trend towards the consumerzation of healthcare.
There's something to be said when we know more about
our uber drivers than we do about you know, our
local positions, right, I mean, how we don't have access
to this information you know, in the in our in
(38:19):
our smartphones, the same way we do with everything else
we do, whether it's our banking, our car services, our
food delivery. I just think healthcare has.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
To catch up.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Yeah, right ahead, doctor Peter. I think this is a
you bring up really important questions and comments, and uh,
I think you're you're right. I'd make another point or two,
which is we do have electronic medical records, but something
that has been talked about for years and it's not accomplished.
(38:49):
Just what's called interoperability, where even if you have the
same epic medical record in one place, it may not
talk to the epic medical record in another place. Epic
is a common medical correct but you know these are solvable,
and the last time I look, I think they're forty
or the new infants into healthcare where you can get
(39:11):
immediate access now a lot of times over the telephone
or over zoom, but immediate access, and so I think
connecting all those is something we must pay attention to.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
The other comment I want to make in that is
that on occasion when either I have had to go
to an emergency room, or my wife had went to
an emergency room, or one of my children went to
an emergency room, it's never convenient. I mean, you're always
going to wait two, three, four or five hours. My
brother broke his knee a year ago in June, his
(39:45):
former state police lieutenant, and he fell and fractured his kneecap.
He ended up waiting about twelve hours in an emergency
room before a doctor would even see him. I mean,
it was insane in terms of the amount of people. Now,
who are you using e ers as their their PCPs? Peter? Great? Great,
when'd you graduate from Michigan? Were you were there when
(40:07):
I'm Tom Brady time.
Speaker 12 (40:11):
A long time ago?
Speaker 10 (40:11):
I was.
Speaker 12 (40:12):
I was probably right before the Tom Brady era. But
I will say we won the national championship in basketball
nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
A local.
Speaker 12 (40:21):
Was one of the stars of that team. That's right afterwards.
But a great squad. And I really appreciate your your
your program, Dan and doctor Rangky outstanding guest obviously. Anyone
who's a Michigan man is gonna be a great guest.
And hopefully I'll bump into your Ingerman when I'm out
there in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
I hopeful we get again to see each other.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah, Peter, the introduction has been made, Peter, the invitation
has been saying, so take advantage of it. You'd be
crazy not to thank you. Peter, thanks so muchciate it,
don't you run? Yeah? I tell you how much I
appreciate you. Thanks, Peter, can't tell you much. I appreciate
the time that you've spent with us tonight. You're extraordinary
and I really mean that. Let me just again encourage people.
(41:03):
The book that will come out on May sixth, but
I'm sure it's available in advance.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Now.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
That's the way the books work these days. Correct. If
someone wants to get this, they can probably get it
on Amazon tonight and get a shipped tomorrow. The Great
Healthcare Disruption is the name of the book, Doctor Marshall,
rungy are you nnge? I wish a huge success with
the book, and maybe maybe I can convince you to
come back sometime in the fall and we can have
(41:29):
a little update on how the medical community is doing
and how the book sales are going. How's that.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
I'd love to Dan and thank you for having me
on the show. I really enjoy hearing your thoughts and
those are your guests. It's been great.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Well, we have great guests, and we do have people
listening in Michigan. Believe it or not, this is a big,
powerful and I'm disappointed in my Michigan people who didn't
get a chancet didn't have the courage to call it tonight,
Doctor Rungky, again, thanks very much, and congratulations on the
success of the Detroit Tigers so far. Don't know if
it's going to last, but they're playing. They're playing a
(42:05):
lot better than had been expected, so congratulations ranks.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Yeah, they're looking good, right.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Doctor Marshall Rocky, the Dean of the University of Michigan
Medical School, an extraordinary guest. We'll be talking with Professor
Steve Stephen Pinker of Harvard University right after the ten
o'clock news here on Nightside
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.