December 12, 2024 • 40 mins
Why are some people so obsessed with true crime? Whether it’s true crime podcasts or docuseries, it seems people can’t get enough…Dr. Scott Bonn is a criminologist who studies serial killers and has been featured on numerous high-profile true crime TV shows and documentaries to give his insight. Dr. Bonn joined us to weigh in on the recent murder of United Healthcare’s CEO at the hands of Luigi Mangione as well as discuss the curious appeal of true crime!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's night time with Dan. I'm telling you Easy Boston's
new video.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
But we talked last hour about what it's been the
biggest news story in some time, and that is the murder,
the cold blooded, cowardly murder of the CEO of United Healthcare.
And with us now is doctor Scott Bond, who's been
a guest of ours before and delighted to have him back.
(00:30):
He's a crime expert, a criminologist, and someone who knows
a lot about the mind of people who literally go
off the rail. Now, welcome back, Scott. How are you tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I'm doing great, Dan, It's good to be here. Thank
you absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I know you recently were in our area and some
folks had a chance to watch you live. And I
know that you have a great deal of expertise, particularly
as it deals with serial killers and some of the
serial killers that you not only have studied, but you've
got to know. Tell us about a couple you've actually
(01:09):
written a book, I believe, with a fairly well known
serial killer that you've got to know very well.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yes, yes, well, thank you for that question. And I
have a little bit of a unique background, if you recall,
because for about twenty years, I was in the news,
media and entertainment aspect of the world, and for a while,
for example, I was actually the vice president of marketing
(01:39):
and Promotion at NBC Television Network, and this was in
the nineteen nineties, and it was while I was working
there with the news division, I saw how certain cases,
and in the nineties we're talking about things like the
Johnny Versace murder, OJ Simpson trial, Menendez Brothers, and even
Jeffrey Dahmer, how these cases became larger than life, similar
(01:59):
to this Mangione case right now, and how the individuals
involved become what I refer to as celebrity monsters, you know,
they become almost part of our popular culture and become
symbolic as examples of evil. And that really really intrigued me,
and I then went back after nine to eleven. I
(02:23):
was moved, as many people were, by the terrible events
of nine to eleven, and I decided to get a
PhD in criminology and Justice studies, and I became a professor,
and as I was teaching and working with students, I
saw how fascinated they would become by serial killers. Anytime
I mentioned Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer, and this led
(02:43):
me into an investigation sort of the dual investigation of
the criminals themselves, the killers, their minds, why they do
what they do, but then also our interest and fixation
on these individuals and why were so fascinated by them.
And it culminated in a book which I appreciate you
mentioning it, which is titled Why We Love Serial Killers,
(03:04):
The Curious Appeal of the World's Most Savage Murderers. And
I realized that is an ironic title because it's, you know,
it's is it a love per se or more fascination,
although I've talked to groupies who say they do love
these individuals. And ultimately it was this book, this book
and my research that then led to my current tour
(03:25):
and my stage show and my one night or one
man show, I should say, where I tour the country
talking about these diabolical individuals. So it's kind of a
dual pronged approach. The way I come at it. I
come at it sort of from the pop culture perspective
and the fascination of it all.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Well, I remember you were here in Boston last spring
and you had a very successful performance here. You have
a website which is simply doc ball and b O
n N like the former capital of Germany dot com UH,
and people can in our audience check out you. You
(04:08):
have a very full schedule already for twenty twenty five.
You have locations and cities booked well into the UH
the new the coming year, right up until November as
a matter of fact, and you will be back in
New England in Connecticut in March. But and we can
(04:29):
talk about that a little bit later. But what I
what I want to focus on is, uh, we we
do have this fascination with the serial killers and whether
it was you know, uh, the guy in New York
Sam Uh who he's.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Day.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, he's still oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I spent a long time working with him and interviewing
him and writing about him. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And it's it's interesting because obviously this murder of the
CEO with United Healthcare occurred in New York. So assuming
that this individual who they have in custody, Luigi Maggioni Mangioni,
is convicted, he'll spend the toughest penalty. He'll face his
(05:19):
life in prison. There's no death penalty in New York,
so he can fight this. But he knows that he's
going to breathe the air here on our planet for
probably fifty to sixty years, while Brian Thompson's days here
unnumbered and his wife is now a widow, and his children,
(05:41):
his two sons, have lost a dad, which is what
you know infuriates me. Talk about if you will, and
again if to whatever extent you can, about the Mangioni case.
At least right now, I believe exec shooting search warrants today,
(06:02):
but not to find out. Is it your sense that
he would have acted totally alone. I mean, he apparently
was found with a lot of cash on him, eight
thousand dollars in the United States currency and two thousand
dollars of I guess foreign currency. Is it your sense
that this is something that he did completely without any
(06:26):
sort of assistance, either before or after, or do you
think there might be more people involved?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Well, let me let me start by saying this, and
also to partially I realized it didn't fully answer your question.
Your first question, and that is I have focused my
work on individuals that are quite grandiose and are attention seekers,
(06:51):
and so I'm talking about in the case of you know, Dave,
you mentioned David Berkowitz, the infamous son of Sam serial killer.
He was a very much an attention seeker. He had
an agenda. He wanted to terrorize New York City. I
also spent a long time corresponding interviewing someone by the
name of Dennis Raider, and your audience may know him.
(07:14):
Dennis Raider called himself buying torture kill or BDK, because
that's what he did as a serial killer to his victims.
And he was, if anything, even more narcissistic and grandios.
He went to the extent of writing to the media
and law enforcement and saying, how many people do I
have to effing kill before I get a little notoriety
(07:35):
around here? So that's how grandiose he is. And I
say is because he is still alive as well in
locked away in solitary confinement. But bringing it to Mangione,
he is also I believe someone who is very grandiose
and narcissistic is very interesting. He apparently was an admirer
(07:58):
and devote even of Ted Kaczynski, the infamous unibomber, and
the Unibomber was very much an anarchist for decades. He
saw himself, I think as an agent of change, wanting
to wanting to reset the system and change our morality,
(08:21):
change our value system away from the technology that he saw,
you know, destroying the world. And I think that man
Joni is very much cut out of that cloth, and
that's why he admired the unibomber. I think he sees
himself as an agent of change and an and an
(08:41):
anarchist and someone who is making a statement, and in
his case, it seems to be you know, an anger
and frustration with the healthcare system in the United States. Now,
a lot of people have frustrations with the healthcare system,
but they don't take it to the extent of killing
the CEO of the fifth largest the company in the
(09:01):
you know, in the United States. But I do think
that he is grandiose. I do think that he is
narcissistic and very much sees himself as almost like a vigilante,
almost like a batman sort of of character, you know,
breaking the law for what he thinks is a higher
purpose and goal, which is changing society and making health
(09:24):
care more affordable and available to everyone.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
He also had that outburst yesterday as he was being
led into the court in Altoona, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, yeah, which which was a little you know, it
did it didn't make a whole lot of sense. You know,
he was ranting, you know, but it's a little unclear
exactly what he was saying. So, but put to your
point into your question, I think that he over the
last couple of years, he increasingly isolated, you know, he
separated from his job, he separated from his friends, and
then he went off the radar completely even with his
(09:59):
own family in the last six months or so. So
this is a guy who I think may have been
slowly losing his grip on reality. There may be some
you know, some real serious underlying, you know, mental health
issues there. That's of course yet to be determined. But
but the way he isolated himself is an indication of that.
(10:21):
And I do think he acted alone. I don't think
I don't think he had partners in this. I don't
think that there's any grand conspiracy or cult or anything
like that.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
That's that's fair. The other thing what you wanted to
mention when you when you were comparing him to Kosinski
both Ivy League graduates.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
That's right. Highly these are super intelligent guys, super intelligent guys,
highly educated. Ivy league educated, as you said, so there
are some interesting parallels there. I mean, Kavinski came from
a you know, like a working class background, whereas man
Joni came from a you know, a fairly up you know, upscale,
well to do family. But but in terms of their
(10:58):
education and their their intelligence, you know, very very similar.
And you know, I believe I wouldn't be all surprised,
you know that there. Of course, they are going to
be forensic psychologists that are going to do batteries of
tests on this guy, and I wouldn't at all be
surprised to find out that he has paranoid you know,
(11:19):
delusions of grandeur and paranoid tendencies.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Well the other the other thing which I think is
important to mention. And then just as as the lawyer here,
I have to jump in a insanity defense in this
case is going to be very difficult because this guy
knew exactly what he was doing, and you cannot just
say the standard is not well, that what that guy
(11:44):
did was crazy, because obviously a lot of these cases
what they do are crazy, But the question is was
he unable? In order to mount to successful insanity defense,
a lawyer has to prove that the client, that defendant
was unable to distinguish between.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Right and wrong, and not only not only that, but
at the exact moment that he did it, not five
minutes before or five minutes after, at that exact moment.
And as you say, that's a very very difficult bar.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
To way, but particularly in this case where apparently he
had some sort of a manifesto in which absolutely to
the FBI. Look, you know what I did, I know
was wrong, but it had sort of I'm paraphrasing here,
and he didn't want to inconvenience and he's sorry for
whatever he did. So look, I think that this is
(12:35):
as as Look, I'm a lawyer. I understand that people
are innocent and to proof and guilty. I get that concept. Okay.
In my time as a Tellvision reporter, I'm proud to
say that was able to prove the innocence of four
men who had spent one hundred and nine years in
prison for murder. They had nothing to do with my
(12:56):
proudest moment as a television reporter. And but but I
do look at this, and the presumption of innocence goes
so far. Yeah, yeah, talk show host, Okay, Yeah, let
me do this, my guess is doctor Scott Bonn. Again.
You can check out his website. Interesting gentlemen, Doc Bonn
(13:19):
DC bo n n dot com. Let's talk a little
bit again. I know that this is not the specific
area of your expertise, but I'm going to invite people
to join the conversation as we did a couple of
months ago, if you want to ask any questions about
(13:39):
some of the horrific serial killers that we have come
to know over the years. Uh. Doctor Bonn has had
in many cases face to face interaction and has studied
their lives, so we'll talk about some of them. My
question is I wonder if this was the end of
it for this guy. And I'm gonna leave this question
(14:01):
hanging for the break. We call it a tease, Doctor Barne.
You know exactly what I'm what I'm talking about. Is
it your sense that if this fellow had gone undetected,
if there had not been a visual photograph that was
released which allowed someone in that McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania
(14:22):
to notice him and identify him, is it your sense
that this might have been one a one and done
with this guy?
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Or you know, it's a great question. You know it's
really a great question.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I hold your answer until after the break. Okay, Oh
that's Okay're gonna hold you. That's what's called the teas,
and we'll take a quick break here. My guest is
doctor Scott Bonne. If you'd like to join the conversation
and ask your great questions six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty.
You may never be able to speak with a serial
killer in your entire life, but you can speak to
(14:58):
someone who has studied serial killer and who has understood
the mind of serial killers and has actually met face
to face and talked at length with some of these
serial killers. I'm delighted to have Scott Bond with us tonight.
This was scheduled in advance by the way of what
happened last Wednesday morning in New York City. Uh, but
for us, it is a very opportune time for us
(15:21):
to speak with Scott Bond, and I hope you will
join us. Coming back on.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Nightside Now back to Dan Ray Mine from the Window
World night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yes, we are in the Window World to night Side Studios,
and we're talking with doctor Scott Bond doc bonn dot
com if you'd like to check him out. I taught
at the University of Miami's had a career in television,
and now he has well he's studying serial killers. So
my question, again, this is a question we'll never know
(15:53):
the actual answer to, but from your perspective, with your expertise,
do you think that us Luigi Mangioni that this was
going to be the only hit that he was going
to carry out, or do you think if somehow he
remained undetected he might have done it? Again?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Great, great, great question, And I had some change, a
little time to think about it there during the during
the break, which I appreciate. And so here are my thoughts.
Number One, the reason that he's in custody right now
is because he made a mistake. It looks like he
planned this pretty carefully, but he did make a mistake
(16:31):
by lowering his mask at the hostel there in New
York that he checked into, and they had him on
the camera and that's how the McDonald's worker was able
to identify him. Now when they when they got him
there at McDonald's, they found him buried in depth doing
research on his computer. And based upon what he was
doing on that computer at that time may help to
(16:54):
answer that question. He may have been doing research on
the next CEO. He may have been researching the architecture
of a particular building that he was looking to you
to infiltrate. Because he obviously did extensive research to figure
out where his victim in New York would be at
(17:16):
exactly six thirty in the morning and not the main
entrance to the Hilton. He knew that he was going
to come in through the side door. Now how did
he do that? How did he do that? How did
he know that? He did extensive research, so when they accessor.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Or doctor bond, he was able to get access to
inside information, either voluntarily released or somehow he was able
to hack into something.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Because you're right exactly, that's my point. That's my point.
He did his research, he did his planning. This guy
is a planner. This was no impulse kill, which again
gets to his premeditation and the likelihood that he's going
to be able to use an insanity is almost nil.
Like like you said, but back to back to his
(18:05):
possibility possible career as a as a killer. They're going
to they're going to find out a lot by digging
into that computer and into his files and see what
he was doing. Now at the time they apprehended him,
as you said, eight thousand dollars in US cash and
also foreign cash. What was he planning to do with that?
Was he planning to get out of the country and
(18:26):
escape or was he planning his next potentially his next victim.
He still had his gun. That's interesting. Wouldn't you want
to get rid of a gun if it was a
one off and you didn't want to be connected to it.
But he still had his gun, so that may indicate
that he did have additional plan.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So I also think the comment is that that you
made about him being narcissistic and if he did have
a warm spot in his heart for Ted Kazinski. Ted
Kazinski was able to inflict damage and death remotely for years,
for years years, So if he really was a devilte
(19:04):
of Kazinski, what a what a I guess history he
could see himself. Potentially he could be moving around the
country and hitting more than one target. Is really what.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Without a doubt and without a doubt, and bringing it
back to serial killers, there is a serial killers are
not one size fits all. As we discussed I think
during our last conversation, they have different motivations and they
fall into different categories. There happens to be a category
of serial killer known as a mission killer. And this
(19:43):
is a serial killer who has defined a particular type
of target or category that they believe it's necessary to eliminate.
And I'm going to give you an example. I was
in Miami when Andrew Cananan shot Conti Versace and that
turned that city upside down. Andrew kananmen they determined, was
a serial killer who was targeting older, very affluent, prominent
(20:10):
gay men because he feels that he felt that he
had been thrown away by these men. He was a
boy toy, so to speak, and he was angry at
these older gay men. So we potentially, potentially, and it
makes for interesting conversation, have a budding mission killer of
CEOs or the those that he sees as exploiting America
(20:34):
and taking advantage of the of the sicken and individuals
suffering and pain and at.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
All and his the guy he admired Kazinsky, had a mission.
He was a mission killer as well. All right, my
guest is doctor Scott Bond. We will take a break.
We're going to go right to phone calls. I got
Vinnie and Sheldon and Paul and Marty. Bring it on
with coming back on night Side, the only one line
open six.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Scott Bone. Let's get to phone calls. They're waiting for you.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Okay, you're ready, all right, all right, let's go.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Let's go to Vinnie in nine. Vinnie first this hour
with doctor Scott do expert on serial killers, but we're
also talking about Luigi MANSI going to go ahead, Vinnie.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
So, Dan, thank you for inviting me as your guest
on your show, My doctor. Thank you for your time.
I want to make it clear that the reason why
I'm so into Sierra Tillersn't detective work is because I
deeply respect good police work, and I deeply believe that
if you hurt someone, you need to be held a
(21:49):
common Please just stand me out and just just humor me.
Just stand me out. We talk about narcissippim, talk about
no feeling for the other person. You're talking about serial
killers being saved. For example, the typical serial killer kills
many people. I'm wondering if with your expertise and the
(22:13):
checkboxes that you need to check. If you put the
CEO in your analyzation, would he become a serial killer
whereas he neglected and he used, in my opinion blarstening
to take their money and not fulfill the contract. And
would he have continued to be responsible for more people's death.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
By the way, video, I think that your analysis is,
in my opinion, is pretty perverted. But let's see what
doctor Vaughn says. Okay, I mean so.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I'm just trying to understand what the listener is doing here.
That listeners trying to put the victim in the in
the in the role of a serial killer. Get comparing
him to a serial killers.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Exactly what he's doing, right, Vinnie in Yer?
Speaker 5 (23:04):
In general?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
In general? Yeah, specific, but in general. Go ahead, go ahead,
doctor bunk Well.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
I think I think that's I have to say. I
think that's palace and immoral. You know what you're what
you're saying, this individual was murdered. Now, you may have
issues with the healthcare system in the United States. I
have some issues with the healthcare, but that certainly does
not give me you or MANNGIONI the right to kill
(23:29):
another person. So no, I think you're completely off base.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Bye way, by your theory, you know, about thirty thousand
people die in automobile accidents every year. So by your theory,
I guess every CEO of General Motors, Ford and all
the other uh, you know companies, they should be next.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I mean, come on, Vin, and you're you're you're saying,
you're saying that he's a serial killer where an individual
is directly responsible for taking another person's life. And what
you're you're trying to say that he's that the victim
here is a serial killer because people in the United
States die. I mean, that's just that you talk about,
(24:11):
uh a manufactured reality. It's just it's it's not even
close to being real.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
But Vinnie, I appreciate your point of view, and I'm
going to move on because I think we're beating you
up quite a bit. Have a great knight, Vinnie. Both
the killers sleep well. Vinnie, thanks very much.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
If you got Paul to be a little sorry to
be a little emphatic there, but I just think that that,
oh I was, I.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Was equally emphatic and U I like to think I
set the tone. Paul, you're next. Paul's and Pencilvan, I
want to.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
Assure your gifts. The doctor of very Chrystmas, you know
your advance and likewise to you, yeah, oh yeah. I
personally think the turned narcissists to throw around to watch.
I forget what the one doctor's name is the order
book heres Ago, he said, narcissist is a term used
by a therapist to the fight a patient who's uh,
(25:05):
who loves himself for they loved their therapists. But my
question for you is, doctor is this uh?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I remember.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
That what that Bradfield and that uh doctor j Smith.
I read that book by Joseph Wambayer's Ago that Goes
in the Darkness. That's the most frightening book I ever
read about any kind of true crime. And Bradfield convict
them he got life and he died in prison. And
uh Smith was Smith was on actually got the death
penalty and he was on death row. He got out
(25:35):
a technicality and he uh and and the state of framemnity,
everything overturned. And that that's one of the most frightening
cases I ever thought of or even read about. And
my question for the doctors if he ever was familiar
in that case, I'm not I can't. I can't say
that I know the specifics of it. I I know
it just generally, so I can't really comment specifically on it.
(25:57):
I'm sorry. I have one and I have one question
for the doctor. Was there he was taught me this book.
Was there was there one person that he was actually
in a role with that he just couldn't even want
to be in the role with them to actually win
a skin crawl? Was that bad? Even though he well.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
That's good. Yeah, Well let's get the doctor to respond.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Go ahead, doctor, that's a great question. That's a great question.
And the individual who probably gave me the creeps more
than any other, and in fact I wasn't fortunately, I
wasn't even able to be in the same room with
him because he's locked away in solitary confinement. But if
(26:36):
we're talking about Dennis Raider, in which it taught Kansas,
who gave himself the term buying torture kill, he gave
himself that name very grandiose. And the reason that I
say that is he he said probably the most chilling
thing that that I've ever heard to me, and and
(26:56):
that is his first murders, in fact, the killing of
a family of four, a Latino family. He was obsessed
and had a fetish for Spanish women, and he wanted
to kill for his first murders a mother and daughter. Well,
when he got over to the house that morning, and
even despite all his meticulous planning, he made a mistake
(27:18):
and mom, dad, Josephine, the little girl that he coveted,
and a little brother were home. So what did he do?
He took his time, He conned them into thinking he
was there to just rob them. They complied, He tied
them up, and then he became buying torture kill, and
he horrifically tortured and killed the parents in front of
(27:38):
the children. He saved little Josephine for last, who was
his prize, and he had planned this out a thousand
times in his mind. He took Josephine into the basement.
He calmly placed the noose around her neck that he
had brought with him, hoisted her up into the ceiling
beams in the basement, and he let her dangle there
and die. And he even pulled a chair her up
(28:00):
to her face to face so he could feel her
final breaths choking her life on his face. And we said, why, oh,
why would you do this to this little girl? And
here here was his response. He said to me, I
am a movie director. I'm Steven Spielberg. I directed that
(28:22):
scene with Joseph Beene one thousand times in my mind,
and when she died it was the most thrilling project
of my life. And when I saw the light in
her eyes go dark, I knew that I was God.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
I just twist the doctor. I just twisted.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
But okay, nice guys, like I said, I'm happy you
know you're in a very Christmas book. The great shows
that likewise to you.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Thank you, right back at you.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Okay, let me get one more in here before the break.
Let me go to Sheldon in Boston, Massachusetts. Sheldon, you're
next on Night That with doctor Scott Bond. Go right ahead, Sheldon.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
All right, it's a second on a call.
Speaker 6 (29:07):
I saw something online on the radio that the shooter's
family was in the nursing home business and that, uh,
the person he killed was buying up nursing homes and
destroying them. Did you hear anything about that?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I had heard, Sheldon, that the that the Minchioni family
had owned some real estate, some properties. I think they
owned a golf course or two, and and that they
owned a radio station in Maryland. If they did own
nursing homes, I am unfamiliar with it. Maybe someone else
(29:51):
has heard that, but it was it seemed to be
to be property. Actually. I think one one of the
places was describ rived as a sort of a not
a retirement community, but it was an upscale place where
people would go. Let me, let me see if doctor
Vaughan has anything on that. Doctor Vaughan, I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
That doesn't ring a bell. I hadn't heard anything about
the family owning or being involved with nursing homes.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah. Most of the most of the speculation Sheldon has
been that this guy had suffered an injury, uh maybe
even while surfing in Hawaii back problem, and that I
think he had some uh some screws in his back.
I also think he had a few screws loose. To
be honest with you.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
He did absolutely. I saw his uh X rays in
the in the media, and he had you know, some
massive implants down in his at the base of his
spine to to stabilize and apparently he was in you know,
tremendous pain and uh bring and also numbness in his legs.
(31:03):
But you know again that while that is a very
unfortunate thing for a young man to have to deal with,
and it's and it's uh, you know, it's it's it's
sad if I know means his cart blanche to uh,
you know, take some of his wife.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
No question, all right, Sheldon. If we find out more
about it, we'll talk about it. I promise, Thank you, Sheldon.
I think we lost him there. Back on Nightside with
my guest, doctor Scott Bonn. I got a couple of
lines six one seven, two, five, four, ten thirty and
one at six one seven ninety going to talk with
Marty and Paul coming up on here on Nightside and
(31:39):
maybe have some room for you. Give us a call.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Now Back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
My guest is doctor Scott Bonn. He's an expert. He's
a criminologist from a college professor at the University of Miami.
He now the State shows on the materials. I also
worked for many years for NBC in New York. Let
me go next to Marty and Florida. Marty you next
on Nightside, Go.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Right ahead, well, first of all, I want to compliment
you Dan another home run program. I just want to
mention that there was a program, rather a series that
MGM put out in the forties, half hour series called
Crime Does Not Play. It's on disc now and I
think a lot of people should watch that because I'm
(32:31):
looking from the perspective of a former law enforcement The
crime itself was unbelievably sloppy, and I think the bottom
line is that this killer caused a lot of grief
to an innocent person's family. One thing that came out
(32:55):
of this which was good is it showed the resources
of the modern police today, like he's searching Central Park
using drones, and it's like it's a message to any
would be killers out there, You're going to get caught fast.
But it was a little bit of a role reversal
because I understand that the people who recognize this killer
(33:18):
at the McDonald's and Altoona, now somebody's looking at them
as they were finks. Then at thinks they did what
they were supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
They were absolutely Marty. Do you get it? You have
a question for my.
Speaker 7 (33:30):
Guest, Okay, the question is this, you know, I forgot
what the question is but anyway, I just want to
compliment you, compliment the doctor, and thanks for another good show.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Thanks so much, Marty, appreciate it very much. Thanks. Six
point eight nine thirty. Paul is in Plymouth, Go ahead,
was that you doctor Bonnet trying to say something? I apologize? Well,
I believe, Okay, dodgeable.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
I would I'd just like to interject I really respect
with a uh this uh the last caller said. And
you know, sadly we kind of lived in an upside
down world where people are you know, attempting to glorify
and make a hero out of this uh you know
man GEONI character, you know, assuming that he is the killer,
(34:22):
and it certainly looks like like it's all things are
in that direction, and you know he's the He's the
last person who deserves to be lionized or or glorified
in any way.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah, and and and you have never lionized these people.
You've you've always felt from you know, that that they
need to be studied.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
But yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
That's so that we can figure out how we can
you know, basically prevent these uh, these sort of repetitive actions.
Let me go to Paul in Plymouth, Paul, you're next
time nice. I would talk to Scott pa and go ahead, Paul.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Well, even even Don Capaun and I will I will say,
I won't lie ize this. Uh, I would call him
a sophisticated puke and I would say, I'm just wondering,
you know, with this man's education and so on, and
he's an admirer of Ted Kaczinski. You had touched on
(35:16):
something earlier. How do we know he doesn't have something
bigger in the works. Maybe he's already got some sort
of automated thing that's going to kick off, and who
knows what it would be. But anyways, I just thought
i'd ask, I ask you to touch on that because
I found that very interesting.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Well, I certainly hope that that's not the case, you know,
I mean, any anything is possible, and certainly I hope
that there is not something already you know, mechanized or
in place that that that could unwrapped, roll out and
take place even with his capture. But we are going
(35:56):
to learn more, you know, this is this is far
from over, you know, I think we are going to
get much more information about his intent, his plans, and
if there was a more long term plan and if
he was in you know, for example, planning to become
a mission killer of healthcare uh CEOs for example, or
(36:17):
or influential people in the healthcare field. I think we're
going to learn more about it. We definitely will, particularly
when they are able to crack up in his uh
his his computer. Apparently he has it all encrypted and
and he is a you know, computer expert. So it's
gonna take a little while, but we are going to
learn more. And I but I certainly hope that the
(36:39):
uh you know, that worst case scenario is not is
not the case.
Speaker 5 (36:45):
Well, I certainly hopefully do.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Good evening, gentlemen, Thank you, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
I appreciate you call. Have a great night, doctor Bond.
You happen to have picked a u a subject that
I think everybody is interested in. And I thank you
for your time tonight. Tell us a little bit if
I can, in the last minute or so that we have.
You are already getting back out on the road. You
(37:10):
appear publicly, you talk to people in various venues. Tell
us just a little bit about what's coming up in
the next year.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, absolutely, and I really really appreciate that. So, yes,
I am currently involved in a national tour, and my
show is called serial Killers with Doctor Scott Bond. It's
a one man live show appearing in theaters or around
(37:39):
the country. And in this show, I take people inside
the minds of some of the most diabolical characters of
all time, and some of whom we've discussed here this evening,
for example, Ivid Berkowitz, the son of Sam Dennis Raider,
the BTT killer, and also the Long Islands serial killer.
(38:00):
I was very involved in profiling that unknown killer back
in twenty and eleven and my profile, it turned out,
when they arrested Rex Huerman last July and charged him
with those murders or a number of the murders in
the Long Island case, my profile prove proved to be
one hundred percent accurate, which I was happy, but I
(38:22):
was also glad that they finally apprehended someone. So I
take people inside the minds of these individuals. We do
a live Q and a session kind of like what
we're doing here this evening, and I take questions from
the audience, which is always the highlight of the show,
and I you know, it's educational, it's informative, but it's
also designed to you know, be entertaining and exhilarating and
(38:45):
fun and and you know, fund from the extandpoint of
of you know, drawing some some conclusions and closure, and
I try to send the audience away with a sense
of safety. Were realizing that you know, these individuals as
heinous as they are there, they are very very few
(39:05):
and far between, and they are on the decline. Serial
killers are on the decline for a number of reasons
that I discussed Jean.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
That give me the topic of our next show. So look,
thank you so much, Doctor Baughan enjoyed it very much.
I want to thank the questions were pretty good. Vinnie
was a little shaky, but the others were fine. And well,
we will have you on again. And I so much
appreciate you taking the time to spend time with my audience.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Thank you so much, absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
And folks can get information at his website which is
doc Bonn DC bo n n dot com. Check them out.
I think you'll find it interesting coming to it to
an area, to a theater near you at not in
twenty twenty five. Thanks thanks Scott, very very much, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Absolutely All right, we get back.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
We're going to talk about these mysterious drones over the
state of New Jersey. New Jersey Callers, I want to
know what's going on down there. We're coming back on Nightside.
It's night time with Dan. I'm telling you Easy Boston's
new video.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
But we talked last hour about what it's been the
biggest news story in some time, and that is the murder,
the cold blooded, cowardly murder of the CEO of United Healthcare.
And with us now is doctor Scott Bond, who's been
a guest of ours before and delighted to have him back.
(00:30):
He's a crime expert, a criminologist, and someone who knows
a lot about the mind of people who literally go
off the rail. Now, welcome back, Scott. How are you tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I'm doing great, Dan, It's good to be here. Thank
you absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I know you recently were in our area and some
folks had a chance to watch you live. And I
know that you have a great deal of expertise, particularly
as it deals with serial killers and some of the
serial killers that you not only have studied, but you've
got to know. Tell us about a couple you've actually
(01:09):
written a book, I believe, with a fairly well known
serial killer that you've got to know very well.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yes, yes, well, thank you for that question. And I
have a little bit of a unique background, if you recall,
because for about twenty years, I was in the news,
media and entertainment aspect of the world, and for a while,
for example, I was actually the vice president of marketing
(01:39):
and Promotion at NBC Television Network, and this was in
the nineteen nineties, and it was while I was working
there with the news division, I saw how certain cases,
and in the nineties we're talking about things like the
Johnny Versace murder, OJ Simpson trial, Menendez Brothers, and even
Jeffrey Dahmer, how these cases became larger than life, similar
(01:59):
to this Mangione case right now, and how the individuals
involved become what I refer to as celebrity monsters, you know,
they become almost part of our popular culture and become
symbolic as examples of evil. And that really really intrigued me,
and I then went back after nine to eleven. I
(02:23):
was moved, as many people were, by the terrible events
of nine to eleven, and I decided to get a
PhD in criminology and Justice studies, and I became a professor,
and as I was teaching and working with students, I
saw how fascinated they would become by serial killers. Anytime
I mentioned Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer, and this led
(02:43):
me into an investigation sort of the dual investigation of
the criminals themselves, the killers, their minds, why they do
what they do, but then also our interest and fixation
on these individuals and why were so fascinated by them.
And it culminated in a book which I appreciate you
mentioning it, which is titled Why We Love Serial Killers,
(03:04):
The Curious Appeal of the World's Most Savage Murderers. And
I realized that is an ironic title because it's, you know,
it's is it a love per se or more fascination,
although I've talked to groupies who say they do love
these individuals. And ultimately it was this book, this book
and my research that then led to my current tour
(03:25):
and my stage show and my one night or one
man show, I should say, where I tour the country
talking about these diabolical individuals. So it's kind of a
dual pronged approach. The way I come at it. I
come at it sort of from the pop culture perspective
and the fascination of it all.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Well, I remember you were here in Boston last spring
and you had a very successful performance here. You have
a website which is simply doc ball and b O
n N like the former capital of Germany dot com UH,
and people can in our audience check out you. You
(04:08):
have a very full schedule already for twenty twenty five.
You have locations and cities booked well into the UH
the new the coming year, right up until November as
a matter of fact, and you will be back in
New England in Connecticut in March. But and we can
(04:29):
talk about that a little bit later. But what I
what I want to focus on is, uh, we we
do have this fascination with the serial killers and whether
it was you know, uh, the guy in New York
Sam Uh who he's.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Day.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, he's still oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I spent a long time working with him and interviewing
him and writing about him. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And it's it's interesting because obviously this murder of the
CEO with United Healthcare occurred in New York. So assuming
that this individual who they have in custody, Luigi Maggioni Mangioni,
is convicted, he'll spend the toughest penalty. He'll face his
(05:19):
life in prison. There's no death penalty in New York,
so he can fight this. But he knows that he's
going to breathe the air here on our planet for
probably fifty to sixty years, while Brian Thompson's days here
unnumbered and his wife is now a widow, and his children,
(05:41):
his two sons, have lost a dad, which is what
you know infuriates me. Talk about if you will, and
again if to whatever extent you can, about the Mangioni case.
At least right now, I believe exec shooting search warrants today,
(06:02):
but not to find out. Is it your sense that
he would have acted totally alone. I mean, he apparently
was found with a lot of cash on him, eight
thousand dollars in the United States currency and two thousand
dollars of I guess foreign currency. Is it your sense
that this is something that he did completely without any
(06:26):
sort of assistance, either before or after, or do you
think there might be more people involved?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Well, let me let me start by saying this, and
also to partially I realized it didn't fully answer your question.
Your first question, and that is I have focused my
work on individuals that are quite grandiose and are attention seekers,
(06:51):
and so I'm talking about in the case of you know, Dave,
you mentioned David Berkowitz, the infamous son of Sam serial killer.
He was a very much an attention seeker. He had
an agenda. He wanted to terrorize New York City. I
also spent a long time corresponding interviewing someone by the
name of Dennis Raider, and your audience may know him.
(07:14):
Dennis Raider called himself buying torture kill or BDK, because
that's what he did as a serial killer to his victims.
And he was, if anything, even more narcissistic and grandios.
He went to the extent of writing to the media
and law enforcement and saying, how many people do I
have to effing kill before I get a little notoriety
(07:35):
around here? So that's how grandiose he is. And I
say is because he is still alive as well in
locked away in solitary confinement. But bringing it to Mangione,
he is also I believe someone who is very grandiose
and narcissistic is very interesting. He apparently was an admirer
(07:58):
and devote even of Ted Kaczynski, the infamous unibomber, and
the Unibomber was very much an anarchist for decades. He
saw himself, I think as an agent of change, wanting
to wanting to reset the system and change our morality,
(08:21):
change our value system away from the technology that he saw,
you know, destroying the world. And I think that man
Joni is very much cut out of that cloth, and
that's why he admired the unibomber. I think he sees
himself as an agent of change and an and an
(08:41):
anarchist and someone who is making a statement, and in
his case, it seems to be you know, an anger
and frustration with the healthcare system in the United States. Now,
a lot of people have frustrations with the healthcare system,
but they don't take it to the extent of killing
the CEO of the fifth largest the company in the
(09:01):
you know, in the United States. But I do think
that he is grandiose. I do think that he is
narcissistic and very much sees himself as almost like a vigilante,
almost like a batman sort of of character, you know,
breaking the law for what he thinks is a higher
purpose and goal, which is changing society and making health
(09:24):
care more affordable and available to everyone.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
He also had that outburst yesterday as he was being
led into the court in Altoona, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, yeah, which which was a little you know, it
did it didn't make a whole lot of sense. You know,
he was ranting, you know, but it's a little unclear
exactly what he was saying. So, but put to your
point into your question, I think that he over the
last couple of years, he increasingly isolated, you know, he
separated from his job, he separated from his friends, and
then he went off the radar completely even with his
(09:59):
own family in the last six months or so. So
this is a guy who I think may have been
slowly losing his grip on reality. There may be some
you know, some real serious underlying, you know, mental health
issues there. That's of course yet to be determined. But
but the way he isolated himself is an indication of that.
(10:21):
And I do think he acted alone. I don't think
I don't think he had partners in this. I don't
think that there's any grand conspiracy or cult or anything
like that.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
That's that's fair. The other thing what you wanted to
mention when you when you were comparing him to Kosinski
both Ivy League graduates.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
That's right. Highly these are super intelligent guys, super intelligent guys,
highly educated. Ivy league educated, as you said, so there
are some interesting parallels there. I mean, Kavinski came from
a you know, like a working class background, whereas man
Joni came from a you know, a fairly up you know, upscale,
well to do family. But but in terms of their
(10:58):
education and their their intelligence, you know, very very similar.
And you know, I believe I wouldn't be all surprised,
you know that there. Of course, they are going to
be forensic psychologists that are going to do batteries of
tests on this guy, and I wouldn't at all be
surprised to find out that he has paranoid you know,
(11:19):
delusions of grandeur and paranoid tendencies.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Well the other the other thing which I think is
important to mention. And then just as as the lawyer here,
I have to jump in a insanity defense in this
case is going to be very difficult because this guy
knew exactly what he was doing, and you cannot just
say the standard is not well, that what that guy
(11:44):
did was crazy, because obviously a lot of these cases
what they do are crazy, But the question is was
he unable? In order to mount to successful insanity defense,
a lawyer has to prove that the client, that defendant
was unable to distinguish between.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Right and wrong, and not only not only that, but
at the exact moment that he did it, not five
minutes before or five minutes after, at that exact moment.
And as you say, that's a very very difficult bar.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
To way, but particularly in this case where apparently he
had some sort of a manifesto in which absolutely to
the FBI. Look, you know what I did, I know
was wrong, but it had sort of I'm paraphrasing here,
and he didn't want to inconvenience and he's sorry for
whatever he did. So look, I think that this is
(12:35):
as as Look, I'm a lawyer. I understand that people
are innocent and to proof and guilty. I get that concept. Okay.
In my time as a Tellvision reporter, I'm proud to
say that was able to prove the innocence of four
men who had spent one hundred and nine years in
prison for murder. They had nothing to do with my
(12:56):
proudest moment as a television reporter. And but but I
do look at this, and the presumption of innocence goes
so far. Yeah, yeah, talk show host, Okay, Yeah, let
me do this, my guess is doctor Scott Bonn. Again.
You can check out his website. Interesting gentlemen, Doc Bonn
(13:19):
DC bo n n dot com. Let's talk a little
bit again. I know that this is not the specific
area of your expertise, but I'm going to invite people
to join the conversation as we did a couple of
months ago, if you want to ask any questions about
(13:39):
some of the horrific serial killers that we have come
to know over the years. Uh. Doctor Bonn has had
in many cases face to face interaction and has studied
their lives, so we'll talk about some of them. My
question is I wonder if this was the end of
it for this guy. And I'm gonna leave this question
(14:01):
hanging for the break. We call it a tease, Doctor Barne.
You know exactly what I'm what I'm talking about. Is
it your sense that if this fellow had gone undetected,
if there had not been a visual photograph that was
released which allowed someone in that McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania
(14:22):
to notice him and identify him, is it your sense
that this might have been one a one and done
with this guy?
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Or you know, it's a great question. You know it's
really a great question.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I hold your answer until after the break. Okay, Oh
that's Okay're gonna hold you. That's what's called the teas,
and we'll take a quick break here. My guest is
doctor Scott Bonne. If you'd like to join the conversation
and ask your great questions six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty.
You may never be able to speak with a serial
killer in your entire life, but you can speak to
(14:58):
someone who has studied serial killer and who has understood
the mind of serial killers and has actually met face
to face and talked at length with some of these
serial killers. I'm delighted to have Scott Bond with us tonight.
This was scheduled in advance by the way of what
happened last Wednesday morning in New York City. Uh, but
for us, it is a very opportune time for us
(15:21):
to speak with Scott Bond, and I hope you will
join us. Coming back on.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Nightside Now back to Dan Ray Mine from the Window
World night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yes, we are in the Window World to night Side Studios,
and we're talking with doctor Scott Bond doc bonn dot
com if you'd like to check him out. I taught
at the University of Miami's had a career in television,
and now he has well he's studying serial killers. So
my question, again, this is a question we'll never know
(15:53):
the actual answer to, but from your perspective, with your expertise,
do you think that us Luigi Mangioni that this was
going to be the only hit that he was going
to carry out, or do you think if somehow he
remained undetected he might have done it? Again?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Great, great, great question, And I had some change, a
little time to think about it there during the during
the break, which I appreciate. And so here are my thoughts.
Number One, the reason that he's in custody right now
is because he made a mistake. It looks like he
planned this pretty carefully, but he did make a mistake
(16:31):
by lowering his mask at the hostel there in New
York that he checked into, and they had him on
the camera and that's how the McDonald's worker was able
to identify him. Now when they when they got him
there at McDonald's, they found him buried in depth doing
research on his computer. And based upon what he was
doing on that computer at that time may help to
(16:54):
answer that question. He may have been doing research on
the next CEO. He may have been researching the architecture
of a particular building that he was looking to you
to infiltrate. Because he obviously did extensive research to figure
out where his victim in New York would be at
(17:16):
exactly six thirty in the morning and not the main
entrance to the Hilton. He knew that he was going
to come in through the side door. Now how did
he do that? How did he do that? How did
he know that? He did extensive research, so when they accessor.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Or doctor bond, he was able to get access to
inside information, either voluntarily released or somehow he was able
to hack into something.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Because you're right exactly, that's my point. That's my point.
He did his research, he did his planning. This guy
is a planner. This was no impulse kill, which again
gets to his premeditation and the likelihood that he's going
to be able to use an insanity is almost nil.
Like like you said, but back to back to his
(18:05):
possibility possible career as a as a killer. They're going
to they're going to find out a lot by digging
into that computer and into his files and see what
he was doing. Now at the time they apprehended him,
as you said, eight thousand dollars in US cash and
also foreign cash. What was he planning to do with that?
Was he planning to get out of the country and
(18:26):
escape or was he planning his next potentially his next victim.
He still had his gun. That's interesting. Wouldn't you want
to get rid of a gun if it was a
one off and you didn't want to be connected to it.
But he still had his gun, so that may indicate
that he did have additional plan.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So I also think the comment is that that you
made about him being narcissistic and if he did have
a warm spot in his heart for Ted Kazinski. Ted
Kazinski was able to inflict damage and death remotely for years,
for years years, So if he really was a devilte
(19:04):
of Kazinski, what a what a I guess history he
could see himself. Potentially he could be moving around the
country and hitting more than one target. Is really what.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Without a doubt and without a doubt, and bringing it
back to serial killers, there is a serial killers are
not one size fits all. As we discussed I think
during our last conversation, they have different motivations and they
fall into different categories. There happens to be a category
of serial killer known as a mission killer. And this
(19:43):
is a serial killer who has defined a particular type
of target or category that they believe it's necessary to eliminate.
And I'm going to give you an example. I was
in Miami when Andrew Cananan shot Conti Versace and that
turned that city upside down. Andrew kananmen they determined, was
a serial killer who was targeting older, very affluent, prominent
(20:10):
gay men because he feels that he felt that he
had been thrown away by these men. He was a
boy toy, so to speak, and he was angry at
these older gay men. So we potentially, potentially, and it
makes for interesting conversation, have a budding mission killer of
CEOs or the those that he sees as exploiting America
(20:34):
and taking advantage of the of the sicken and individuals
suffering and pain and at.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
All and his the guy he admired Kazinsky, had a mission.
He was a mission killer as well. All right, my
guest is doctor Scott Bond. We will take a break.
We're going to go right to phone calls. I got
Vinnie and Sheldon and Paul and Marty. Bring it on
with coming back on night Side, the only one line
open six.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Scott Bone. Let's get to phone calls. They're waiting for you.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Okay, you're ready, all right, all right, let's go.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Let's go to Vinnie in nine. Vinnie first this hour
with doctor Scott do expert on serial killers, but we're
also talking about Luigi MANSI going to go ahead, Vinnie.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
So, Dan, thank you for inviting me as your guest
on your show, My doctor. Thank you for your time.
I want to make it clear that the reason why
I'm so into Sierra Tillersn't detective work is because I
deeply respect good police work, and I deeply believe that
if you hurt someone, you need to be held a
(21:49):
common Please just stand me out and just just humor me.
Just stand me out. We talk about narcissippim, talk about
no feeling for the other person. You're talking about serial
killers being saved. For example, the typical serial killer kills
many people. I'm wondering if with your expertise and the
(22:13):
checkboxes that you need to check. If you put the
CEO in your analyzation, would he become a serial killer
whereas he neglected and he used, in my opinion blarstening
to take their money and not fulfill the contract. And
would he have continued to be responsible for more people's death.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
By the way, video, I think that your analysis is,
in my opinion, is pretty perverted. But let's see what
doctor Vaughn says. Okay, I mean so.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I'm just trying to understand what the listener is doing here.
That listeners trying to put the victim in the in
the in the role of a serial killer. Get comparing
him to a serial killers.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Exactly what he's doing, right, Vinnie in Yer?
Speaker 5 (23:04):
In general?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
In general? Yeah, specific, but in general. Go ahead, go ahead,
doctor bunk Well.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
I think I think that's I have to say. I
think that's palace and immoral. You know what you're what
you're saying, this individual was murdered. Now, you may have
issues with the healthcare system in the United States. I
have some issues with the healthcare, but that certainly does
not give me you or MANNGIONI the right to kill
(23:29):
another person. So no, I think you're completely off base.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Bye way, by your theory, you know, about thirty thousand
people die in automobile accidents every year. So by your theory,
I guess every CEO of General Motors, Ford and all
the other uh, you know companies, they should be next.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I mean, come on, Vin, and you're you're you're saying,
you're saying that he's a serial killer where an individual
is directly responsible for taking another person's life. And what
you're you're trying to say that he's that the victim
here is a serial killer because people in the United
States die. I mean, that's just that you talk about,
(24:11):
uh a manufactured reality. It's just it's it's not even
close to being real.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
But Vinnie, I appreciate your point of view, and I'm
going to move on because I think we're beating you
up quite a bit. Have a great knight, Vinnie. Both
the killers sleep well. Vinnie, thanks very much.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
If you got Paul to be a little sorry to
be a little emphatic there, but I just think that that,
oh I was, I.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Was equally emphatic and U I like to think I
set the tone. Paul, you're next. Paul's and Pencilvan, I
want to.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
Assure your gifts. The doctor of very Chrystmas, you know
your advance and likewise to you, yeah, oh yeah. I
personally think the turned narcissists to throw around to watch.
I forget what the one doctor's name is the order
book heres Ago, he said, narcissist is a term used
by a therapist to the fight a patient who's uh,
(25:05):
who loves himself for they loved their therapists. But my
question for you is, doctor is this uh?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I remember.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
That what that Bradfield and that uh doctor j Smith.
I read that book by Joseph Wambayer's Ago that Goes
in the Darkness. That's the most frightening book I ever
read about any kind of true crime. And Bradfield convict
them he got life and he died in prison. And
uh Smith was Smith was on actually got the death
penalty and he was on death row. He got out
(25:35):
a technicality and he uh and and the state of framemnity,
everything overturned. And that that's one of the most frightening
cases I ever thought of or even read about. And
my question for the doctors if he ever was familiar
in that case, I'm not I can't. I can't say
that I know the specifics of it. I I know
it just generally, so I can't really comment specifically on it.
(25:57):
I'm sorry. I have one and I have one question
for the doctor. Was there he was taught me this book.
Was there was there one person that he was actually
in a role with that he just couldn't even want
to be in the role with them to actually win
a skin crawl? Was that bad? Even though he well.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
That's good. Yeah, Well let's get the doctor to respond.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Go ahead, doctor, that's a great question. That's a great question.
And the individual who probably gave me the creeps more
than any other, and in fact I wasn't fortunately, I
wasn't even able to be in the same room with
him because he's locked away in solitary confinement. But if
(26:36):
we're talking about Dennis Raider, in which it taught Kansas,
who gave himself the term buying torture kill, he gave
himself that name very grandiose. And the reason that I
say that is he he said probably the most chilling
thing that that I've ever heard to me, and and
(26:56):
that is his first murders, in fact, the killing of
a family of four, a Latino family. He was obsessed
and had a fetish for Spanish women, and he wanted
to kill for his first murders a mother and daughter. Well,
when he got over to the house that morning, and
even despite all his meticulous planning, he made a mistake
(27:18):
and mom, dad, Josephine, the little girl that he coveted,
and a little brother were home. So what did he do?
He took his time, He conned them into thinking he
was there to just rob them. They complied, He tied
them up, and then he became buying torture kill, and
he horrifically tortured and killed the parents in front of
(27:38):
the children. He saved little Josephine for last, who was
his prize, and he had planned this out a thousand
times in his mind. He took Josephine into the basement.
He calmly placed the noose around her neck that he
had brought with him, hoisted her up into the ceiling
beams in the basement, and he let her dangle there
and die. And he even pulled a chair her up
(28:00):
to her face to face so he could feel her
final breaths choking her life on his face. And we said, why, oh,
why would you do this to this little girl? And
here here was his response. He said to me, I
am a movie director. I'm Steven Spielberg. I directed that
(28:22):
scene with Joseph Beene one thousand times in my mind,
and when she died it was the most thrilling project
of my life. And when I saw the light in
her eyes go dark, I knew that I was God.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
I just twist the doctor. I just twisted.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
But okay, nice guys, like I said, I'm happy you
know you're in a very Christmas book. The great shows
that likewise to you.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Thank you, right back at you.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Okay, let me get one more in here before the break.
Let me go to Sheldon in Boston, Massachusetts. Sheldon, you're
next on Night That with doctor Scott Bond. Go right ahead, Sheldon.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
All right, it's a second on a call.
Speaker 6 (29:07):
I saw something online on the radio that the shooter's
family was in the nursing home business and that, uh,
the person he killed was buying up nursing homes and
destroying them. Did you hear anything about that?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I had heard, Sheldon, that the that the Minchioni family
had owned some real estate, some properties. I think they
owned a golf course or two, and and that they
owned a radio station in Maryland. If they did own
nursing homes, I am unfamiliar with it. Maybe someone else
(29:51):
has heard that, but it was it seemed to be
to be property. Actually. I think one one of the
places was describ rived as a sort of a not
a retirement community, but it was an upscale place where
people would go. Let me, let me see if doctor
Vaughan has anything on that. Doctor Vaughan, I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
That doesn't ring a bell. I hadn't heard anything about
the family owning or being involved with nursing homes.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah. Most of the most of the speculation Sheldon has
been that this guy had suffered an injury, uh maybe
even while surfing in Hawaii back problem, and that I
think he had some uh some screws in his back.
I also think he had a few screws loose. To
be honest with you.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
He did absolutely. I saw his uh X rays in
the in the media, and he had you know, some
massive implants down in his at the base of his
spine to to stabilize and apparently he was in you know,
tremendous pain and uh bring and also numbness in his legs.
(31:03):
But you know again that while that is a very
unfortunate thing for a young man to have to deal with,
and it's and it's uh, you know, it's it's it's
sad if I know means his cart blanche to uh,
you know, take some of his wife.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
No question, all right, Sheldon. If we find out more
about it, we'll talk about it. I promise, Thank you, Sheldon.
I think we lost him there. Back on Nightside with
my guest, doctor Scott Bonn. I got a couple of
lines six one seven, two, five, four, ten thirty and
one at six one seven ninety going to talk with
Marty and Paul coming up on here on Nightside and
(31:39):
maybe have some room for you. Give us a call.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Now Back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
My guest is doctor Scott Bonn. He's an expert. He's
a criminologist from a college professor at the University of Miami.
He now the State shows on the materials. I also
worked for many years for NBC in New York. Let
me go next to Marty and Florida. Marty you next
on Nightside, Go.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Right ahead, well, first of all, I want to compliment
you Dan another home run program. I just want to
mention that there was a program, rather a series that
MGM put out in the forties, half hour series called
Crime Does Not Play. It's on disc now and I
think a lot of people should watch that because I'm
(32:31):
looking from the perspective of a former law enforcement The
crime itself was unbelievably sloppy, and I think the bottom
line is that this killer caused a lot of grief
to an innocent person's family. One thing that came out
(32:55):
of this which was good is it showed the resources
of the modern police today, like he's searching Central Park
using drones, and it's like it's a message to any
would be killers out there, You're going to get caught fast.
But it was a little bit of a role reversal
because I understand that the people who recognize this killer
(33:18):
at the McDonald's and Altoona, now somebody's looking at them
as they were finks. Then at thinks they did what
they were supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
They were absolutely Marty. Do you get it? You have
a question for my.
Speaker 7 (33:30):
Guest, Okay, the question is this, you know, I forgot
what the question is but anyway, I just want to
compliment you, compliment the doctor, and thanks for another good show.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Thanks so much, Marty, appreciate it very much. Thanks. Six
point eight nine thirty. Paul is in Plymouth, Go ahead,
was that you doctor Bonnet trying to say something? I apologize? Well,
I believe, Okay, dodgeable.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
I would I'd just like to interject I really respect
with a uh this uh the last caller said. And
you know, sadly we kind of lived in an upside
down world where people are you know, attempting to glorify
and make a hero out of this uh you know
man GEONI character, you know, assuming that he is the killer,
(34:22):
and it certainly looks like like it's all things are
in that direction, and you know he's the He's the
last person who deserves to be lionized or or glorified
in any way.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah, and and and you have never lionized these people.
You've you've always felt from you know, that that they
need to be studied.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
But yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
That's so that we can figure out how we can
you know, basically prevent these uh, these sort of repetitive actions.
Let me go to Paul in Plymouth, Paul, you're next
time nice. I would talk to Scott pa and go ahead, Paul.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Well, even even Don Capaun and I will I will say,
I won't lie ize this. Uh, I would call him
a sophisticated puke and I would say, I'm just wondering,
you know, with this man's education and so on, and
he's an admirer of Ted Kaczinski. You had touched on
(35:16):
something earlier. How do we know he doesn't have something
bigger in the works. Maybe he's already got some sort
of automated thing that's going to kick off, and who
knows what it would be. But anyways, I just thought
i'd ask, I ask you to touch on that because
I found that very interesting.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Well, I certainly hope that that's not the case, you know,
I mean, any anything is possible, and certainly I hope
that there is not something already you know, mechanized or
in place that that that could unwrapped, roll out and
take place even with his capture. But we are going
(35:56):
to learn more, you know, this is this is far
from over, you know, I think we are going to
get much more information about his intent, his plans, and
if there was a more long term plan and if
he was in you know, for example, planning to become
a mission killer of healthcare uh CEOs for example, or
(36:17):
or influential people in the healthcare field. I think we're
going to learn more about it. We definitely will, particularly
when they are able to crack up in his uh
his his computer. Apparently he has it all encrypted and
and he is a you know, computer expert. So it's
gonna take a little while, but we are going to
learn more. And I but I certainly hope that the
(36:39):
uh you know, that worst case scenario is not is
not the case.
Speaker 5 (36:45):
Well, I certainly hopefully do.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Good evening, gentlemen, Thank you, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
I appreciate you call. Have a great night, doctor Bond.
You happen to have picked a u a subject that
I think everybody is interested in. And I thank you
for your time tonight. Tell us a little bit if
I can, in the last minute or so that we have.
You are already getting back out on the road. You
(37:10):
appear publicly, you talk to people in various venues. Tell
us just a little bit about what's coming up in
the next year.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, absolutely, and I really really appreciate that. So, yes,
I am currently involved in a national tour, and my
show is called serial Killers with Doctor Scott Bond. It's
a one man live show appearing in theaters or around
(37:39):
the country. And in this show, I take people inside
the minds of some of the most diabolical characters of
all time, and some of whom we've discussed here this evening,
for example, Ivid Berkowitz, the son of Sam Dennis Raider,
the BTT killer, and also the Long Islands serial killer.
(38:00):
I was very involved in profiling that unknown killer back
in twenty and eleven and my profile, it turned out,
when they arrested Rex Huerman last July and charged him
with those murders or a number of the murders in
the Long Island case, my profile prove proved to be
one hundred percent accurate, which I was happy, but I
(38:22):
was also glad that they finally apprehended someone. So I
take people inside the minds of these individuals. We do
a live Q and a session kind of like what
we're doing here this evening, and I take questions from
the audience, which is always the highlight of the show,
and I you know, it's educational, it's informative, but it's
also designed to you know, be entertaining and exhilarating and
(38:45):
fun and and you know, fund from the extandpoint of
of you know, drawing some some conclusions and closure, and
I try to send the audience away with a sense
of safety. Were realizing that you know, these individuals as
heinous as they are there, they are very very few
(39:05):
and far between, and they are on the decline. Serial
killers are on the decline for a number of reasons
that I discussed Jean.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
That give me the topic of our next show. So look,
thank you so much, Doctor Baughan enjoyed it very much.
I want to thank the questions were pretty good. Vinnie
was a little shaky, but the others were fine. And well,
we will have you on again. And I so much
appreciate you taking the time to spend time with my audience.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Thank you so much, absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
And folks can get information at his website which is
doc Bonn DC bo n n dot com. Check them out.
I think you'll find it interesting coming to it to
an area, to a theater near you at not in
twenty twenty five. Thanks thanks Scott, very very much, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Absolutely All right, we get back.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
We're going to talk about these mysterious drones over the
state of New Jersey. New Jersey Callers, I want to
know what's going on down there. We're coming back on Nightside.
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