April 21, 2025 • 38 mins
On Easter Monday, Pope Francis, the first Latin American pontiff, died at the age of 88. Pope Francis is being remembered for his humble and more progressive style of leadership. As the 266th pope, he did things quite differently, more humbly, than his predecessors, for example, having chosen to live in the Santa Marta guest house in the Vatican rather than the traditional Apostolic Palace. The late Pope was more progressive in how he reformed the Vatican with his outreach to the LGBTQ community as well as his elevation of women to higher levels in the church than ever seen before. Father Jonathan Gasbar, Pastor of St. Mary of the Assumption Parish in Brookline and former Secretary to Cardinal O’Malley, was in Rome in 2013 for the last conclave that chose Pope Francis. Father Gasbar joined us to remark on the inspirational life of Pope Francis.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Belgium Bzy, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
The good news on Dan is the Red Sox won
that series three to one over the weekend, and they
have carried the season series against the White Sox four
games to three. Of the bad news that they don't
get to play the White Sox again for the rest
of the season. Anyway, Our of Boston Red Sox thirteen
to eleven, two games over five hundred. The Seattle Mariners
(00:27):
come in next. Well, today, the big news story was
not the marathon big story in Boston. It was not
really the Red Sox beating the White Sox the big
story today. A sad story today was the passing of
Pope Francis at the age of eighty eight at the Vatican.
He had been sick for if the truth probably several years,
(00:50):
but certainly very sick the last few months. Have just
had spent a couple of months in the hospital and
maybe maybe he knew that his days were numberedy he
chose to finished them out back at the Vatican. Then
in the hospital with us is father Jonathan Gasper. He's
the pastor of Saint Mary's of the Assumption parish in
Brookline by the Gasper. I read an interesting article that
(01:14):
your parish was gifted a chalice by the pope, not
this pope, but by a prior pope. I think it
was Pious the Eleventh, If I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It was the ninth.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Pie is the ninth right in the nineteenth This would
have been like in the eighteen sixties or seventies, and
that that chalice. You were cleaning out the basement or something,
and you discovered this chalice which had tremendous has tremendous
historical significance. I got to ask you about that. I mean,
(01:50):
what did you think. How long did it take you
to figure out, Hey, this is a pretty special gift.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, I knew about the chalice before we discovered it.
I was reading a little history of the parish and
read this story that Popious the ninth sent the chalice
to the first pastor of feud affinity of the parish
in recognition of the fact that Saint Mary the Assumption
In Brookline. They say in the history book that it
(02:17):
was the first church in the United States named for
the Assumption of Mary. So the chalice was given in
honor of that, and so yeah, so We were cleaning
out the basement when I first moved in, and my
seminarian actually found this box of old vessels and he said, oh,
look at this, and I said, there's the chalice. And
it had been damaged by fire and we had it
(02:39):
restored and we use it for special occasions now, so it.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Was it was given as a gift in eighteen what
was it, eighteen sixty five or something. Is that the
best thing it was.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
That's our best estimate would have been like the late
late nineteenth century. We don't really know exactly when, but
it was in the reign of Popious nine.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, so it was over one hundred years old. Over
one hundred years old when you found.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Oh sure, yea, I looked at it.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well they obviously anything will tarnish over time, but I'm
still I'm sure that you can restore that. So again,
that's an interesting, interesting story. You've been pastor there for
how long.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Now, I've been here for seven years.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Seven years, And before that, you were the secretary to
Cardinal O'Malley. Maybe not immediately before that, but but yeah,
I guess you were. You with the secretary to Cardinal O'Malley.
And this is a great parish. It produced Monsignor George
Kurr many years ago. My audience remember the football All
(03:47):
American at Boston College in the early nineteen forties, who
would have been a number one draft choice if they
had a college draft or a Pro football NFL draft
back in the day. Became a a great like yourself,
a member of the clergy, and a great man who
I had the opportunity to meet as I was a
(04:07):
little boy. So I'm very familiar with your parish. And
now I want to ask you. You were with Cardinal
O'Malley serving as his right hand man, secretary, whatever you
want to call it in political parlance, as every president
has someone they rely upon who's their closest aid, and
(04:30):
I'm sure that's the role that you had with Cardinal O'Malley.
And of course he participated in the Conclave of nineteen
or Rother of twenty thirteen that elevated the then cardinal
from Argentina to the chair of Saint Peter. And the
(04:53):
church is just about to go through that again. So
with that, just as background, so people know you're a experience.
How overwhelming was it to be You're still a young priest,
but to be a younger priest and to see the
passage of power, of the elevation of a pope up
(05:13):
close and personal as you did back then.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yeah, I was thirty five years old and it was overwhelming.
It's probably a good way to describe it. But just
you really get a sense of the history of the church.
You span back two thousand years and this whole process
of burying a pope and electing a new one has
been repeated countless times, and we can really trace our
(05:41):
history back. So you get that sense of overwhelm. And
then then you just get the sense of the enormity
of the church, billions strong, and you have cardinals from
all over the world who are representing great varieties of
peoples and cultures and nations. So in that sense too,
you just get a sense of the power, the power
(06:04):
at work in this process. And you know, it's a
very prayerful process too. Dan, I think that's one thing
that many people sort of looking from the outside, they
don't see it. They focus on the political, the political
sort of machinations, and there's a little of that that
goes on, but I would say it's primarily a very
prayerful process that the cardinals gather and really just ask
(06:26):
the Holy Spirit, ask God to try and to be
open to what God's will is for the church, and
to really be listening to each other and most of all,
to be listening to what God wants for the church
in now twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
And of course it's you need the vote of two
thirds of the cardinals who are voting, and that's not
an easy It took I think it was five was
it five days before both Francis was selected.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
No, Pope Francis went into They went into the conclave
that elected Pope Francis on March twelfth, and the election
was decided on March thirteenth.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Maybe, okay, maybe I remember was balanced five ballots?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Okay, yeah, maybe yeah. Probably.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Is it your sense that there will be that quick
a decision this time or do you think that that
it may take longer.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Dan, It's really hard to tell, to be honest with you.
I think going into the previous conclave, it was pretty
clear with the type of pope that the cardinals were
looking to elect. They were looking to elect a reformer,
someone who was going to deal with some major issues
that the church was facing, and that Pope Benedict just realized,
(07:54):
out of his own humility, out of his own faith,
that he just couldn't he couldn't handle and made that
bold move. I mean, we'll never forget that day. I was.
I remember it was Valentine's Day and he stepped down.
It was a historic move. So I think going into
the prior conclave, of the Conclave of twenty thirteen, rather
(08:15):
there was sort of a pretty clear direction where what
the church needed at that time, so I think maybe
it was shorter then. I don't know, I don't know
where their mind's at right now, so it'll be interesting
to see how long this this conclave takes.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah, last question before the break was then Cardinal uh
Progoglio of real Degenerio. Was he considered the favorite or did?
I'm trying to remember you lived it, so I just
love to know what was he one of the papabilias
as they're referred to, the small group who could be
(08:51):
pope or did he come out of me?
Speaker 4 (08:53):
What was.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I don't know, you know, I think depending on who
you were reading, depending on what you know, what continent
you lived on. The lists were all over the place,
so he might have been on some people's lists and
on others he was the dark horse, but I remember
just being surprised he wasn't the name that I had
heard too much of, And when he came out onto
the balcony, I think it was the first time I
had seen him myself.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
And we'll tell the story of your up close and
personal meeting with him a day or so later. My
guest is the pastor of Saint Mary's of the Assumption
Roman Catholic Church in Brookline, Father Jonathan Gasper. He is
going to talk to me for a while. If you'd
(09:38):
like to jump on. Maybe he'll take a couple of
phone calls. We'll see. I certainly would love to hear
from some of you, and we will talk later about
your memories of Pope Francis and where you think the
church might go. Boston is a overwhelming Catholic community, perhaps
not as fervently Catholic as it was one hundred years
(09:58):
ago or fifty years ago that matter, but it's still
very important. You know, one comment that I have I
always kept and this is this is this is a
non ecclesiastical comment, father, So you can you can breathe
easy for a second. I kept hearing uh Pope Francis
referred to as the first Pope from Latin America. And
(10:21):
you know, I remember that when I learned my geography
in school, Argentina was in the southern part of South America,
and when I had thought about Latin America, I thought about,
you know, a lot of the countries at the top
of South America, Venezuela and countries like that. How is
it that that he became known as the first Pope
(10:42):
of Latin America or is that just a nomenclature that
he adopted obviously from Argentina is, you know, next to Chile,
and it runs all the way down to the base
of South America. I just when you grew up, did
you think of Latin America or South America? Or am
I confused? And did I learned my geography incorrectly? No?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I think I don't know what I was taught growing up,
but I do know he's certainly the first pope of
the Americas. There's never been a pope elected from north,
central or South America. But I think Latin America is
a reference to the to the countries have who have
Latin roots, so Brazil and in any of the Spanish
speaking countries and so yeah, and I think you know
(11:29):
when he was elected they said that, they said that
the cardinals went to the end of the world to
find the pope, and making reference to the fact that
here he is from a continent very far away, and
from the very southern tip of that continent.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So yeah, down by the Falkland Islands. That was the
only thing I knew right at that point. The one
thing I found. I read a piece in the Washington
Post today that we have had eleven non European popes
in the early Church. I'm sure you knew that. I
did not know that several popes from the Middle East.
(12:03):
The last one died in seventeen forty one, Pope Gregory,
the third from what is now modern day Syria. So
it will be interesting. Will we get back and want
to ask you what about the possibility of an American pope.
I'm sure that again that's a speculative realm that that
you'll you'll have a thought or two on and if
anyone would like to participate, feel free to join the conversation.
(12:27):
Six months, seven two, five, four, ten thirty or six
months seven nine, three, one ten thirty. Again, my guest
Reverend Jonathan Gaspar. He was in New England or grew
up here, educated at Saint John's Seminary and also in Rome,
and he's at Saint Mary's of the Assumption Church in Brookline,
(12:48):
a church that is well known in the greater Boston area.
And before that he served as secretary to Cardinal O'Malley
and was present for the conclave in twenty thirteen. We'll
be back on side buildings and grounds, military post, naval
stations throughout the United States and territories and possessions will
(13:09):
have their flag lowered uh half staff at the White
House and upon all these buildings until the day of
internment of the Pope. I think that's a pretty nice gesture.
I don't know if that's been done by prior presidents
or not. I hope the American Civil Liberties Union doesn't
(13:31):
try to file a lawsuit against them to stop from
from somehow mixing religion and state. But I think it.
I think it's a it's a great recognition of what
Pope Francis stood for and and also of the the
(13:52):
Catholic churcher in America. You'll comment, father Gasper.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, I think you know, part of the beauty of
his life and his ministry is that he was really
a bridge builder. And actually, well that's one of the
official titles for the pope is he's the Pontifects. He's
the one who builds bridges. And I just think you know,
from the very early days of his pontificate and even
his priesthood, he was always reaching out to people of
different faiths. He had a great relationship with the Jewish
(14:19):
community in Buenos Aires, and just continued that bridge building.
So I think that the that the government has uh
has asked that the flags be flown at half staff,
it's just just I just think a great sign of
respect for the man, but also for what he represents.
And you don't have to be Catholic to to identify
(14:41):
with these universal values of love and compassion and the
dignity the care for the poor that he stood for.
I think people of all faiths and traditions and no
faith at all would uh I would see that, you know,
there was something universal and that you could you could
grab on to a lot of the things that Pope
Francis said. So, yeah, a great sign of respect for
(15:04):
his pontificate, his life.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Now you had a chance to meet Pope Francis in
the literally the hours after he became pope. I'm going
to ask you if you be comfortable in sharing that story.
You told it to me very proudly today.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I'd be happy to We just had a mass here
at the parish tonight and I shared this story with
my parishioners for the homily. And yeah, the day after
the mass of his inauguration, of course, he becomes the
Pope the moment he's elected and he accepts the pontificate.
So about a week later there's a mass that celebrates
this transition, and it's his first real public mass in
(15:49):
Saint Peter's Square. And the following day, we were staying
up the hill at the North American College. I was
with Cardinal Sean as his secretary back then, and he
came to me and asked me if I would bring
a letter down to the Pope, and he said, you know,
please make sure that this letter gets into his hands.
So I said sure. I went down the hill and
(16:11):
went to the domus sung to Martha that this residence
where the papal workers are and where all of the
cardinals were staying. And I knew the woman at the
front desk, because that's where we stay when we'd go
to Rome and continue whenever the cardinal goes to ROMEI
stays there for his work at the Vatican. So I
said to her, I have a letter for the Pope.
(16:32):
Can I give it to you? I said, the Cardinal
really wants to make sure that this letter gets into
his hands. And she says, well, if you give it
to me, you're probably it's probably going to take a
few days or even weeks for it to get there.
And this is sort of the bureaucracy of the Vatican.
She said, But if you hold on a minute, let's
see if I can get his secretary to come down
here and get it for you. So his secretary was called,
(16:53):
and a couple of minutes later they said, go up
to the second floor. He's waiting for you. So I
got on the elevator, got off the elevator and there's
a secretary waiting for me, and I said, here's a
letter from Cardinal Sean. And he says, and it's for
the Pope, right, And I said, yep, he wants to
make sure you get it right into his hands. And
he says, I can do better than that, and all
of a sudden, this door behind him opens, swings open,
(17:15):
and outcomes Pope Francis. And I was just shocked. My
roam at my caller. We wear these little rub these
plastic inserts in our call My caller wasn't even incorrectly.
It was a cold and I rany and windy day,
so I looked like I had just you know, gotten
off a boat. And there's the Pope and he took
(17:36):
the letter and he thanked me, and I said, no,
Holy Father, I want to thank you. And I said
three things to him. And I'll never forget this conversation.
It's really the only time that I was able to
speak with the Holy Father. It was just the three
of us there in the in the hallway, and I said, first,
thank you for accepting the election. You know, they have
(17:57):
every ability to say no. And uh. And here's this
guy who's very He could have retired that year if
the if the Pope had accepted his resignation. But he's,
you know, an old man and saying yes to this.
And there's a story that says that once he put
the papal robes on and went back out to see
the College of Cardinals. All there waiting for him. They
(18:19):
applauded him, and he shushed them and he said, may
God forgive you for what you've done, and they all laugh.
But I said, thank you for accepting their dis election.
And I said, secondly, I said thank you for your
for your good example to us as priests, and just
for the Catholics and leaders throughout the world, because at
(18:41):
the time he was doing things that were sort of
turning people's heads. He was as Pope newly elected, you know,
taking his driver out to the hotel where he was
staying before the conclave to pay the bill, and he
stopped into the little eyeglass shop to pick up his
new eyeglasses. And people were so sort of chuckling at this,
(19:02):
but for me and for so many of us, it
was so refreshing to see.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Errands.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yeah, which before he became a prisoner of the Vatican,
which you know, he really didn't let those walls of
the Vatican keep him in and that was the beauty
of his pontificate. And finally, the last thing that I
said to was, Holy Father, were praying for you. And
he took my hands at that point and became very serious,
and he said, please do pray for me and and
we have been for his whole pontificate. And that's really
(19:30):
what the church is doing now, is praying for him
and praying for whoever his successor is going to be,
and praying for the church that we would always know
that we're not orphans, that that God is always with us,
and that the Pope is just one more sign of
God's care and protection and direction for the church.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
My gues, Father Jonathan Gasper, you want to stick with
me into this next I would love to see if
some folks want to ask questions or make comments, be
happy to uncomfortable. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
My guest is Father Jonathan Gasper. He is the pastor
of Saint Mary's of the Assumption Paris in Brookline, and
(20:10):
before that, Sir as the secretary to Cardinal Sean O'Malley,
and in that capacity was with him for the conclave
in twenty thirteen. We get back, we'll talk a little
bit about the conclave that's upcoming. That's the election of
the designation of the Pope. It is an election amongst
the cardinals who are under the age of eighty and
(20:32):
I think it's somewhere around one hundred and thirty if
I'm not mistaken, but I'm sure Father Gasper can correct
me on that. If you'd like to join the conversation,
ask a comment, feel free. We're just reflecting on the
passing of Pope Francis Milestone. Certainly that is marked in
the Catholic Church, and whether you're Catholic or not, you
(20:54):
should know that a man of great importance and impact
stawn earlier today and we're commemorating that moment in time.
Six one seven, two, five four ten, six one seven,
nine three one ten thirty. My name is Dan Ray.
This is Nightside. Don't be shy. We'll be back right
after this.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
You're on nights Side with Dan Ray on w b
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
All right, welcome back everyone. We're delighted to be joined
tonight by a pastor at Saint Mary's of the Assumption
Catholic Church in Brookline, Reverend Jonathan Gasper, who was the
secretary to Cardinal O'Malley at the time of the last conclave.
(21:44):
Now Cardinal O'Malley will be going to the conclave and
to all of the ceremony and activity. People need to remember,
Father Gasper that the Vatican. Although it is a landlocked
country's about fifteen or twenty acres in size. It's the
smallest country in the world, correct.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Correct, Yeah, you can. You can walk around the country
and less than a day in just a few hours.
So yes, it's a small.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
I took I traveled there a few times. But last
summer took a travel with a group of nightside listeners
to Italy, to Rome and to the Amalfi coast and
we spent time. We were in the Sistine Chapel. I'm
sure you were inside the chapel, you know, back then
where all the activity and the and the the election
(22:37):
of a new pope will will take place. Just the
sequence the pope is I understand that needs to be
buried within a few certain numbers of days. Is it
between like six and eight days following his passing. It's
a fairly quick internment, correct, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
It's a four to six days after his passing. Yeah,
you celebrate the funeral mass and the burial. And we're
in this time right now called the Novamdalis or there
are nine days of mourning, of public mourning in the church,
and I think even in Italy, throughout Italy, the government
mourns the death of this head of state of the
(23:17):
Vatican City State. So yeah, so, and then after the
burial of the Holy Father, which will take place outside
of Vatican. Actually, it'll be in a pable basilica, which
is referred to as Saint Mary Major, one of the
oldest churches in the Roman Church, but the oldest church
(23:38):
dedicated to marry the Mother of Gods be buried there.
It's the basilica that's very near and dear to the
hearts of the Roman people. And as the Bishop of Rome,
it's a title that he emphasized from the very beginning.
He had a real closeness to the people of Rome.
It's something that he saw as I think, very important
(24:00):
to his ministry. It's something he did in Buenos Aires.
He rode the bus with the people, he cooked his
own meals. He could see him out shopping for his
own groceries in Buenos Aires. So when he when he
came to Rome, he wanted to really emphasize that, in
addition to being the Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church,
that he wanted to emphasize this relationship to the people
(24:22):
of Rome. So his burial will take place in this Basilica,
this magnificent Basilica where he has housed an image that's
very very much revered by Roman Catholics in Rome itself,
and he'll be buried just steps away from that that image.
He whenever he traveled outside of the country for a
(24:44):
people trip, he would stop there and pray before and
upon returning, he would stop there and pray again to
give thanks for the success of the trip.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
And then and then the conclave will occur, and I
would suspect that realistically, perhaps by the end of April,
or certainly by the first few days of May, we
will have his successor.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
We very well could.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Before the conclave begins, there are a series of meetings
that take place. They're called congregations. And what will happen
is all of the cardinals from throughout the world are
invited to attend these meetings, including the cardinals have passed
the voting aide, so Cardinal Sean is no longer a
voting member of the College of Cardinals. But he'll still
(25:33):
be able to participate in those meetings, and he'll be
able to speak and to listen and meet with the cardinals.
And then there comes a certain point where the conclave
begins and the Master of Ceremonies will get up and
proclaim extra Omenase. I think we all remember that from
the election of Pope Francis, and that means anyone who's
(25:54):
not voting in this election has to leave the Sistine
Chapel before the election process begins. There's a very intense
security sweep of the cis teen chapel. They check for bugs,
they make sure there's no way to transmit any of
the conversations that are taking place within those walls, and
(26:14):
they elevate the floor. It's it's a very secure location.
And I was able to actually make a visit there
before the conclave and stood at the very seat where
Cardinal Sean was going to sit and looked up at
that great that great painting of the Last Judgment, the
Final Judgment by Michelangelo, and thinking, this is what they
(26:35):
look at as they're as they're casting their votes for
the next the next Pope, that God himself will judge
them if they're they're acting selfishly or choosing someone for
the wrong reasons.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah. Wow, it's such a moment in time. Let's let's
get some phone calls and see what folks want to
ask a comment. Rob Is in Medford. Rob, you were
first this hour with my guest, the pastor of Saint
Mary's of the Assumption Church in Brookline Catholic Church in Brookline,
Reverend Jonathan Gasper.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Go ahead, Rob, Good evening, Dan Good, evening, Reverence. I
was wondering. You had mentioned over eighty you can't vote
number one. I was wondering, but can you still be
elected number two? I was wondering last time around, I
remember there was a Cardinal Scola.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Who was in the running, and.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
He's actually a relative, and I'm wondering if he could
possibly still be in the if he's still alive, and
if he could possibly still be the archbishop.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
He's the Archbishop of Milan. Go ahead, that's.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
So, yeah, you have to be you can be elected
at eighty years old. He is no longer The Archbishop
of Milani served until I think twenty and seventeen, and
and he was a he was the bishop of Venice
before them. To be honest with you, I don't even
know if he's if he's still alive or.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Not, because he is. I read a piece today that
that well, actually he's he's eighty two years of age,
so he could be elected, but he won't be able
to vote. He was, he's sort of considered the research
that I did something of a dark horse, but certainly
(28:38):
someone who is mentioned in that in that list of potentials.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah, I remember the last time around.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Go ahead, go ahead, Rob, Father finished hold on, Rob
holding just for one second, Father Gasper just had a comment, Godfather.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I think Cardinal Skulder certainly was a name that was
being spoken in lots of circles back then. And I
think if I think there was even a mistake made
in the day of the of the election that the
Bishop's Conference of Italy accidentally put out an announcement they
were prepared for Cardinal Scola Uh to be to be elected,
and someone hit the sense the send button a little
(29:16):
too early. So yeah, they had their job the next
day or not.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, well he could keep that as a souvenir. That's
for your go ahead, Rob. You had a follow up question.
I'm sorry, go ahead, Rob.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Yes, I was going to say, my mother was so
excited for that, she'd still be rooting for it. But
what a glorious day for his excellency that for his
soul to answer the kingdom. I haven't on Easter Sunday.
I can imagine what a glorious celebration that must have been.
And I hope to see it with all of us someday,
(29:49):
and and and and and not to put a theirport
on anything, But is there actually a restriction that the
pope hass the biological male.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Be a male. He doesn't have to be ordained, but
he has to be a male. But but Robbie, you're
going back to what you just said about the timing
of this. You just couldn't have orchestrated this any better
that the Holy Father, you know, really just moments after
the celebration of Easter, and that you know that final
appearance in Saint Peter's Square where he blessed the people
(30:27):
and wished this all a happy Easter and shared such
beautiful words that he had prepared. I mean that you know,
he's awakening today to God's glory in heaven. And it's
really the fact that he he passed so close to
this feast which is central to the Christian faith, the resurrection,
the everything is a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, without the resurrection, there's no Catholic Church. Correct when
you think about it, rob Out, I'll tell you. Thank you,
both you and I Rob. Even though we're not ordained
where ell is you to become pope. I just want
to let you know that. Okay, he.
Speaker 5 (31:11):
Vegas should be way off on me.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I know me too. Thank you, Rob, appreciate the call.
Thanks again. We got to take a quick cook. We
got to take a quick break. My name is Dan Ray.
We're gonna wrap it up with father Jonathan Gasper. Take
up more phone calls. Feel free join the conversation. Coming
right back on night Side six one, seven, two, four thirty.
Back right after this.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
It's night Side with Dan on w the Boston's news.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Radio with me his father Jonathan Gasper, the pastor of
Saint Mary's of the Assumption Cathy Church in Brookline. Let
me get to Julie in Brookline. Julia, welcome here. I'm
with father Gasper. Go right ahead.
Speaker 6 (31:54):
Good evening, Dan, Good evening party, Gasper. Dan, You'll be
surprised that very much liked in Iran, and it was
very popular and the reason was more than anything else.
And during the Oboman administration, Holy Father came to Congress
and spoke there highly of Iran and told them to
(32:16):
accept the nuclear deal. They were doing at the time,
and men I heard that I was visiting my mother
at the time. The following week, I Tola sent President
of Ivan to Vargain to personally tank Pope and they
also present him with very special Persian rug. So Pope
Francis was very much popular guy in Iran. I just
(32:41):
thought to let you.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Know, No, I appreciate that Jalil is a friend of
mine who was born in Iran and who came to
this country. If I recall Jalil either just before or
just after the Iotola took power in the late nineteen seventies, No, just.
Speaker 6 (32:58):
Three years before the evolution, and I came.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Here, Okay, so it was nineteen seventy six then, because
then came here right And Julia, if I can tell
the story that I was able to help get your
mom out and I had the pleasure of meeting your
mother over But we worked Julia worked at Channel four
(33:21):
for a while and he asked me his mom was
having difficulty getting beyond I believe was Istan Bull and
we were able to pull a couple of strings, and
so Julia's mom got a chance to come to the
United States. She eventually went back volunteering.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
Back and she always spoke highly of you, and she
always told their friend that you know, she knows somebody
very high office in the United State. For then, because
she rejected when she went to embassy to get it.
And this is for father, and that's why I'm telling this.
And she was rejected the visa and then then got
(33:58):
involved with the Speaker of the Speaker O'Neil, and then
she got the visa and came here. So he is
thankful for Dan, and so I just thought to let
you know that the Holy Father is very popular in Iran.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
All right, Julia has always thank you. I know your
mom has passed on, but I'm so happy that I
could that I was able to meet her, and thank you.
Thank you Julia's talk, good night. It was really a
very interesting time, Father, the gaspar Let me go to
Joe in Cambridge. I think Joe has a story about
(34:36):
Pope Francis that he would like to share.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Go ahead, Joe, Hey, Joe, Hey Dan, Hey, father, do
you know anything about a Celtic shirt with a young
man from Cambridge that presented of the Holy Father several
years ago?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Father, I do. I think there was a young man
from the cathedral actually who was traveling. Do you know
this guy personally? I do, Foo, I do, I do
so yeah, So I hear, I hear. Pope Francis is
a great Celtics fan. And I think I think this
guy even brought uh. I think this guy even brought
(35:11):
the Holy Father a signed baseball from the Red Sox.
So I think our Holy Father has great love for
the Boston sports teams. He's got good taste.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Tell the story. I only got a minute or so left.
He'll tell that story quickly, so we let everyone else
in on the conversation. Go ahead, Joe.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
So, I had the oppos of the honor to travel
with Cardinal O'Malley to Rome once and I didn't tell
the Cardinal. And during the private audience, I had a
Boston Celtics ship when they world won the World championship.
I think it was two years ago. And as I
approached the Holy Father, I took it out of my
suit coat and I presented to him and I said,
Holy Father, this is for you because he loves, you know, football,
(35:55):
But I didn't bring the football. I bought the basically
basketball and he said no, no, no, no else, and
then he signed it and there was a line of
like twenty people on the back and he says, they
can wait, they can wait, and I was just so nervous.
Speaker 6 (36:07):
Man.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
But anyways, Father is well aware of it.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
So you have to signed basketball from Pope Francis.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Basketball, a baseball and a Celtics shirt green Celtics shirt. O, God,
don't have don't ever put them up for auction.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You'll, you'll, you'll, you'll put yourself into a different tax category.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Love the love the story, Joe, Thank you so much,
perfect thanking to the hour. Thank you so.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Much, Thanks Joe.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Father. How did you know, Well, of course you were.
You were the Cardinal secretary, so you knew everything.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
The story like that and the picture that in exchange
just went viral. It was a great moment. And you
can see the excitement in the Pope's face when he
loves he loves soccer, but I think he just loves
what what you know the world is sport and what
sports do for culture and for people.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Absolutely, Father, thank you so much. You gave us some
great insights tonight. I do appreciate your time tonight more
than I can tell you. And I look forward to
meeting at some point. And you know, I wish you
great success at Saint Mary's the Assumption in Brookline.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Thanks Dan, Thanks everyone, have a great night.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
All right. So there was that I thought an interesting hour.
What I'd like to do in the next hour is
give you an opportunity to comment. It's just going to
be me and you on your recollection of Pope Francis.
And again, I know there were some things that he
said that were met by different people. Whenever you represent
(37:46):
one point three or one point four billion people worldwide,
not everyone is going to agree with everything you do.
And we can talk about with the conclave is going
to go as well, that's a possibility, but your thoughts
about it if you've been to Rome. I was in
Rome last summer with fifteen individuals who became good friends,
and we visited, visited the Vatican, did the big tour
(38:10):
at the Vatican, which was one of the highlights of
the trip. And I'm so glad that my memory is
so fresh of that. I was at the Vatican also
in eighty six when Cardinal Law was elevated to the
College of Cardinals. Got some open lines six one seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six, one seven, nine three one, ten
thirty there are there subjects we can talk about, but
(38:32):
I'd like to endeaference to all of you, give you
an opportunity to express your thoughts. Tonight, the night of
the passing of Boat Francis. My name is Dan Bay,
and this is nightside
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Belgium Bzy, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
The good news on Dan is the Red Sox won
that series three to one over the weekend, and they
have carried the season series against the White Sox four
games to three. Of the bad news that they don't
get to play the White Sox again for the rest
of the season. Anyway, Our of Boston Red Sox thirteen
to eleven, two games over five hundred. The Seattle Mariners
(00:27):
come in next. Well, today, the big news story was
not the marathon big story in Boston. It was not
really the Red Sox beating the White Sox the big
story today. A sad story today was the passing of
Pope Francis at the age of eighty eight at the Vatican.
He had been sick for if the truth probably several years,
(00:50):
but certainly very sick the last few months. Have just
had spent a couple of months in the hospital and
maybe maybe he knew that his days were numberedy he
chose to finished them out back at the Vatican. Then
in the hospital with us is father Jonathan Gasper. He's
the pastor of Saint Mary's of the Assumption parish in
Brookline by the Gasper. I read an interesting article that
(01:14):
your parish was gifted a chalice by the pope, not
this pope, but by a prior pope. I think it
was Pious the Eleventh, If I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It was the ninth.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Pie is the ninth right in the nineteenth This would
have been like in the eighteen sixties or seventies, and
that that chalice. You were cleaning out the basement or something,
and you discovered this chalice which had tremendous has tremendous
historical significance. I got to ask you about that. I mean,
(01:50):
what did you think. How long did it take you
to figure out, Hey, this is a pretty special gift.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, I knew about the chalice before we discovered it.
I was reading a little history of the parish and
read this story that Popious the ninth sent the chalice
to the first pastor of feud affinity of the parish
in recognition of the fact that Saint Mary the Assumption
In Brookline. They say in the history book that it
(02:17):
was the first church in the United States named for
the Assumption of Mary. So the chalice was given in
honor of that, and so yeah, so We were cleaning
out the basement when I first moved in, and my
seminarian actually found this box of old vessels and he said, oh,
look at this, and I said, there's the chalice. And
it had been damaged by fire and we had it
(02:39):
restored and we use it for special occasions now, so it.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Was it was given as a gift in eighteen what
was it, eighteen sixty five or something. Is that the
best thing it was.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
That's our best estimate would have been like the late
late nineteenth century. We don't really know exactly when, but
it was in the reign of Popious nine.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, so it was over one hundred years old. Over
one hundred years old when you found.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Oh sure, yea, I looked at it.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well they obviously anything will tarnish over time, but I'm
still I'm sure that you can restore that. So again,
that's an interesting, interesting story. You've been pastor there for
how long.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Now, I've been here for seven years.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Seven years, And before that, you were the secretary to
Cardinal O'Malley. Maybe not immediately before that, but but yeah,
I guess you were. You with the secretary to Cardinal O'Malley.
And this is a great parish. It produced Monsignor George
Kurr many years ago. My audience remember the football All
(03:47):
American at Boston College in the early nineteen forties, who
would have been a number one draft choice if they
had a college draft or a Pro football NFL draft
back in the day. Became a a great like yourself,
a member of the clergy, and a great man who
I had the opportunity to meet as I was a
(04:07):
little boy. So I'm very familiar with your parish. And
now I want to ask you. You were with Cardinal
O'Malley serving as his right hand man, secretary, whatever you
want to call it in political parlance, as every president
has someone they rely upon who's their closest aid, and
(04:30):
I'm sure that's the role that you had with Cardinal O'Malley.
And of course he participated in the Conclave of nineteen
or Rother of twenty thirteen that elevated the then cardinal
from Argentina to the chair of Saint Peter. And the
(04:53):
church is just about to go through that again. So
with that, just as background, so people know you're a experience.
How overwhelming was it to be You're still a young priest,
but to be a younger priest and to see the
passage of power, of the elevation of a pope up
(05:13):
close and personal as you did back then.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yeah, I was thirty five years old and it was overwhelming.
It's probably a good way to describe it. But just
you really get a sense of the history of the church.
You span back two thousand years and this whole process
of burying a pope and electing a new one has
been repeated countless times, and we can really trace our
(05:41):
history back. So you get that sense of overwhelm. And
then then you just get the sense of the enormity
of the church, billions strong, and you have cardinals from
all over the world who are representing great varieties of
peoples and cultures and nations. So in that sense too,
you just get a sense of the power, the power
(06:04):
at work in this process. And you know, it's a
very prayerful process too. Dan, I think that's one thing
that many people sort of looking from the outside, they
don't see it. They focus on the political, the political
sort of machinations, and there's a little of that that
goes on, but I would say it's primarily a very
prayerful process that the cardinals gather and really just ask
(06:26):
the Holy Spirit, ask God to try and to be
open to what God's will is for the church, and
to really be listening to each other and most of all,
to be listening to what God wants for the church
in now twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
And of course it's you need the vote of two
thirds of the cardinals who are voting, and that's not
an easy It took I think it was five was
it five days before both Francis was selected.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
No, Pope Francis went into They went into the conclave
that elected Pope Francis on March twelfth, and the election
was decided on March thirteenth.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Maybe, okay, maybe I remember was balanced five ballots?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Okay, yeah, maybe yeah. Probably.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Is it your sense that there will be that quick
a decision this time or do you think that that
it may take longer.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Dan, It's really hard to tell, to be honest with you.
I think going into the previous conclave, it was pretty
clear with the type of pope that the cardinals were
looking to elect. They were looking to elect a reformer,
someone who was going to deal with some major issues
that the church was facing, and that Pope Benedict just realized,
(07:54):
out of his own humility, out of his own faith,
that he just couldn't he couldn't handle and made that
bold move. I mean, we'll never forget that day. I was.
I remember it was Valentine's Day and he stepped down.
It was a historic move. So I think going into
the prior conclave, of the Conclave of twenty thirteen, rather
(08:15):
there was sort of a pretty clear direction where what
the church needed at that time, so I think maybe
it was shorter then. I don't know, I don't know
where their mind's at right now, so it'll be interesting
to see how long this this conclave takes.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah, last question before the break was then Cardinal uh
Progoglio of real Degenerio. Was he considered the favorite or did?
I'm trying to remember you lived it, so I just
love to know what was he one of the papabilias
as they're referred to, the small group who could be
(08:51):
pope or did he come out of me?
Speaker 4 (08:53):
What was.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I don't know, you know, I think depending on who
you were reading, depending on what you know, what continent
you lived on. The lists were all over the place,
so he might have been on some people's lists and
on others he was the dark horse, but I remember
just being surprised he wasn't the name that I had
heard too much of, And when he came out onto
the balcony, I think it was the first time I
had seen him myself.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
And we'll tell the story of your up close and
personal meeting with him a day or so later. My
guest is the pastor of Saint Mary's of the Assumption
Roman Catholic Church in Brookline, Father Jonathan Gasper. He is
going to talk to me for a while. If you'd
(09:38):
like to jump on. Maybe he'll take a couple of
phone calls. We'll see. I certainly would love to hear
from some of you, and we will talk later about
your memories of Pope Francis and where you think the
church might go. Boston is a overwhelming Catholic community, perhaps
not as fervently Catholic as it was one hundred years
(09:58):
ago or fifty years ago that matter, but it's still
very important. You know, one comment that I have I
always kept and this is this is this is a
non ecclesiastical comment, father, So you can you can breathe
easy for a second. I kept hearing uh Pope Francis
referred to as the first Pope from Latin America. And
(10:21):
you know, I remember that when I learned my geography
in school, Argentina was in the southern part of South America,
and when I had thought about Latin America, I thought about,
you know, a lot of the countries at the top
of South America, Venezuela and countries like that. How is
it that that he became known as the first Pope
(10:42):
of Latin America or is that just a nomenclature that
he adopted obviously from Argentina is, you know, next to Chile,
and it runs all the way down to the base
of South America. I just when you grew up, did
you think of Latin America or South America? Or am
I confused? And did I learned my geography incorrectly? No?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I think I don't know what I was taught growing up,
but I do know he's certainly the first pope of
the Americas. There's never been a pope elected from north,
central or South America. But I think Latin America is
a reference to the to the countries have who have
Latin roots, so Brazil and in any of the Spanish
speaking countries and so yeah, and I think you know
(11:29):
when he was elected they said that, they said that
the cardinals went to the end of the world to
find the pope, and making reference to the fact that
here he is from a continent very far away, and
from the very southern tip of that continent.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So yeah, down by the Falkland Islands. That was the
only thing I knew right at that point. The one
thing I found. I read a piece in the Washington
Post today that we have had eleven non European popes
in the early Church. I'm sure you knew that. I
did not know that several popes from the Middle East.
(12:03):
The last one died in seventeen forty one, Pope Gregory,
the third from what is now modern day Syria. So
it will be interesting. Will we get back and want
to ask you what about the possibility of an American pope.
I'm sure that again that's a speculative realm that that
you'll you'll have a thought or two on and if
anyone would like to participate, feel free to join the conversation.
(12:27):
Six months, seven two, five, four, ten thirty or six
months seven nine, three, one ten thirty. Again, my guest
Reverend Jonathan Gaspar. He was in New England or grew
up here, educated at Saint John's Seminary and also in Rome,
and he's at Saint Mary's of the Assumption Church in Brookline,
(12:48):
a church that is well known in the greater Boston area.
And before that he served as secretary to Cardinal O'Malley
and was present for the conclave in twenty thirteen. We'll
be back on side buildings and grounds, military post, naval
stations throughout the United States and territories and possessions will
(13:09):
have their flag lowered uh half staff at the White
House and upon all these buildings until the day of
internment of the Pope. I think that's a pretty nice gesture.
I don't know if that's been done by prior presidents
or not. I hope the American Civil Liberties Union doesn't
(13:31):
try to file a lawsuit against them to stop from
from somehow mixing religion and state. But I think it.
I think it's a it's a great recognition of what
Pope Francis stood for and and also of the the
(13:52):
Catholic churcher in America. You'll comment, father Gasper.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, I think you know, part of the beauty of
his life and his ministry is that he was really
a bridge builder. And actually, well that's one of the
official titles for the pope is he's the Pontifects. He's
the one who builds bridges. And I just think you know,
from the very early days of his pontificate and even
his priesthood, he was always reaching out to people of
different faiths. He had a great relationship with the Jewish
(14:19):
community in Buenos Aires, and just continued that bridge building.
So I think that the that the government has uh
has asked that the flags be flown at half staff,
it's just just I just think a great sign of
respect for the man, but also for what he represents.
And you don't have to be Catholic to to identify
(14:41):
with these universal values of love and compassion and the
dignity the care for the poor that he stood for.
I think people of all faiths and traditions and no
faith at all would uh I would see that, you know,
there was something universal and that you could you could
grab on to a lot of the things that Pope
Francis said. So, yeah, a great sign of respect for
(15:04):
his pontificate, his life.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Now you had a chance to meet Pope Francis in
the literally the hours after he became pope. I'm going
to ask you if you be comfortable in sharing that story.
You told it to me very proudly today.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I'd be happy to We just had a mass here
at the parish tonight and I shared this story with
my parishioners for the homily. And yeah, the day after
the mass of his inauguration, of course, he becomes the
Pope the moment he's elected and he accepts the pontificate.
So about a week later there's a mass that celebrates
this transition, and it's his first real public mass in
(15:49):
Saint Peter's Square. And the following day, we were staying
up the hill at the North American College. I was
with Cardinal Sean as his secretary back then, and he
came to me and asked me if I would bring
a letter down to the Pope, and he said, you know,
please make sure that this letter gets into his hands.
So I said sure. I went down the hill and
(16:11):
went to the domus sung to Martha that this residence
where the papal workers are and where all of the
cardinals were staying. And I knew the woman at the
front desk, because that's where we stay when we'd go
to Rome and continue whenever the cardinal goes to ROMEI
stays there for his work at the Vatican. So I
said to her, I have a letter for the Pope.
(16:32):
Can I give it to you? I said, the Cardinal
really wants to make sure that this letter gets into
his hands. And she says, well, if you give it
to me, you're probably it's probably going to take a
few days or even weeks for it to get there.
And this is sort of the bureaucracy of the Vatican.
She said, But if you hold on a minute, let's
see if I can get his secretary to come down
here and get it for you. So his secretary was called,
(16:53):
and a couple of minutes later they said, go up
to the second floor. He's waiting for you. So I
got on the elevator, got off the elevator and there's
a secretary waiting for me, and I said, here's a
letter from Cardinal Sean. And he says, and it's for
the Pope, right, And I said, yep, he wants to
make sure you get it right into his hands. And
he says, I can do better than that, and all
of a sudden, this door behind him opens, swings open,
(17:15):
and outcomes Pope Francis. And I was just shocked. My
roam at my caller. We wear these little rub these
plastic inserts in our call My caller wasn't even incorrectly.
It was a cold and I rany and windy day,
so I looked like I had just you know, gotten
off a boat. And there's the Pope and he took
(17:36):
the letter and he thanked me, and I said, no,
Holy Father, I want to thank you. And I said
three things to him. And I'll never forget this conversation.
It's really the only time that I was able to
speak with the Holy Father. It was just the three
of us there in the in the hallway, and I said, first,
thank you for accepting the election. You know, they have
(17:57):
every ability to say no. And uh. And here's this
guy who's very He could have retired that year if
the if the Pope had accepted his resignation. But he's,
you know, an old man and saying yes to this.
And there's a story that says that once he put
the papal robes on and went back out to see
the College of Cardinals. All there waiting for him. They
(18:19):
applauded him, and he shushed them and he said, may
God forgive you for what you've done, and they all laugh.
But I said, thank you for accepting their dis election.
And I said, secondly, I said thank you for your
for your good example to us as priests, and just
for the Catholics and leaders throughout the world, because at
(18:41):
the time he was doing things that were sort of
turning people's heads. He was as Pope newly elected, you know,
taking his driver out to the hotel where he was
staying before the conclave to pay the bill, and he
stopped into the little eyeglass shop to pick up his
new eyeglasses. And people were so sort of chuckling at this,
(19:02):
but for me and for so many of us, it
was so refreshing to see.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Errands.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yeah, which before he became a prisoner of the Vatican,
which you know, he really didn't let those walls of
the Vatican keep him in and that was the beauty
of his pontificate. And finally, the last thing that I
said to was, Holy Father, were praying for you. And
he took my hands at that point and became very serious,
and he said, please do pray for me and and
we have been for his whole pontificate. And that's really
(19:30):
what the church is doing now, is praying for him
and praying for whoever his successor is going to be,
and praying for the church that we would always know
that we're not orphans, that that God is always with us,
and that the Pope is just one more sign of
God's care and protection and direction for the church.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
My gues, Father Jonathan Gasper, you want to stick with
me into this next I would love to see if
some folks want to ask questions or make comments, be
happy to uncomfortable. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
My guest is Father Jonathan Gasper. He is the pastor
of Saint Mary's of the Assumption Paris in Brookline, and
(20:10):
before that, Sir as the secretary to Cardinal Sean O'Malley,
and in that capacity was with him for the conclave
in twenty thirteen. We get back, we'll talk a little
bit about the conclave that's upcoming. That's the election of
the designation of the Pope. It is an election amongst
the cardinals who are under the age of eighty and
(20:32):
I think it's somewhere around one hundred and thirty if
I'm not mistaken, but I'm sure Father Gasper can correct
me on that. If you'd like to join the conversation,
ask a comment, feel free. We're just reflecting on the
passing of Pope Francis Milestone. Certainly that is marked in
the Catholic Church, and whether you're Catholic or not, you
(20:54):
should know that a man of great importance and impact
stawn earlier today and we're commemorating that moment in time.
Six one seven, two, five four ten, six one seven,
nine three one ten thirty. My name is Dan Ray.
This is Nightside. Don't be shy. We'll be back right
after this.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
You're on nights Side with Dan Ray on w b
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
All right, welcome back everyone. We're delighted to be joined
tonight by a pastor at Saint Mary's of the Assumption
Catholic Church in Brookline, Reverend Jonathan Gasper, who was the
secretary to Cardinal O'Malley at the time of the last conclave.
(21:44):
Now Cardinal O'Malley will be going to the conclave and
to all of the ceremony and activity. People need to remember,
Father Gasper that the Vatican. Although it is a landlocked
country's about fifteen or twenty acres in size. It's the
smallest country in the world, correct.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Correct, Yeah, you can. You can walk around the country
and less than a day in just a few hours.
So yes, it's a small.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
I took I traveled there a few times. But last
summer took a travel with a group of nightside listeners
to Italy, to Rome and to the Amalfi coast and
we spent time. We were in the Sistine Chapel. I'm
sure you were inside the chapel, you know, back then
where all the activity and the and the the election
(22:37):
of a new pope will will take place. Just the
sequence the pope is I understand that needs to be
buried within a few certain numbers of days. Is it
between like six and eight days following his passing. It's
a fairly quick internment, correct, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
It's a four to six days after his passing. Yeah,
you celebrate the funeral mass and the burial. And we're
in this time right now called the Novamdalis or there
are nine days of mourning, of public mourning in the church,
and I think even in Italy, throughout Italy, the government
mourns the death of this head of state of the
(23:17):
Vatican City State. So yeah, so, and then after the
burial of the Holy Father, which will take place outside
of Vatican. Actually, it'll be in a pable basilica, which
is referred to as Saint Mary Major, one of the
oldest churches in the Roman Church, but the oldest church
(23:38):
dedicated to marry the Mother of Gods be buried there.
It's the basilica that's very near and dear to the
hearts of the Roman people. And as the Bishop of Rome,
it's a title that he emphasized from the very beginning.
He had a real closeness to the people of Rome.
It's something that he saw as I think, very important
(24:00):
to his ministry. It's something he did in Buenos Aires.
He rode the bus with the people, he cooked his
own meals. He could see him out shopping for his
own groceries in Buenos Aires. So when he when he
came to Rome, he wanted to really emphasize that, in
addition to being the Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church,
that he wanted to emphasize this relationship to the people
(24:22):
of Rome. So his burial will take place in this Basilica,
this magnificent Basilica where he has housed an image that's
very very much revered by Roman Catholics in Rome itself,
and he'll be buried just steps away from that that image.
He whenever he traveled outside of the country for a
(24:44):
people trip, he would stop there and pray before and
upon returning, he would stop there and pray again to
give thanks for the success of the trip.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
And then and then the conclave will occur, and I
would suspect that realistically, perhaps by the end of April,
or certainly by the first few days of May, we
will have his successor.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
We very well could.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Before the conclave begins, there are a series of meetings
that take place. They're called congregations. And what will happen
is all of the cardinals from throughout the world are
invited to attend these meetings, including the cardinals have passed
the voting aide, so Cardinal Sean is no longer a
voting member of the College of Cardinals. But he'll still
(25:33):
be able to participate in those meetings, and he'll be
able to speak and to listen and meet with the cardinals.
And then there comes a certain point where the conclave
begins and the Master of Ceremonies will get up and
proclaim extra Omenase. I think we all remember that from
the election of Pope Francis, and that means anyone who's
(25:54):
not voting in this election has to leave the Sistine
Chapel before the election process begins. There's a very intense
security sweep of the cis teen chapel. They check for bugs,
they make sure there's no way to transmit any of
the conversations that are taking place within those walls, and
(26:14):
they elevate the floor. It's it's a very secure location.
And I was able to actually make a visit there
before the conclave and stood at the very seat where
Cardinal Sean was going to sit and looked up at
that great that great painting of the Last Judgment, the
Final Judgment by Michelangelo, and thinking, this is what they
(26:35):
look at as they're as they're casting their votes for
the next the next Pope, that God himself will judge
them if they're they're acting selfishly or choosing someone for
the wrong reasons.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah. Wow, it's such a moment in time. Let's let's
get some phone calls and see what folks want to
ask a comment. Rob Is in Medford. Rob, you were
first this hour with my guest, the pastor of Saint
Mary's of the Assumption Church in Brookline Catholic Church in Brookline,
Reverend Jonathan Gasper.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Go ahead, Rob, Good evening, Dan Good, evening, Reverence. I
was wondering. You had mentioned over eighty you can't vote
number one. I was wondering, but can you still be
elected number two? I was wondering last time around, I
remember there was a Cardinal Scola.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Who was in the running, and.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
He's actually a relative, and I'm wondering if he could
possibly still be in the if he's still alive, and
if he could possibly still be the archbishop.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
He's the Archbishop of Milan. Go ahead, that's.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
So, yeah, you have to be you can be elected
at eighty years old. He is no longer The Archbishop
of Milani served until I think twenty and seventeen, and
and he was a he was the bishop of Venice
before them. To be honest with you, I don't even
know if he's if he's still alive or.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Not, because he is. I read a piece today that
that well, actually he's he's eighty two years of age,
so he could be elected, but he won't be able
to vote. He was, he's sort of considered the research
that I did something of a dark horse, but certainly
(28:38):
someone who is mentioned in that in that list of potentials.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah, I remember the last time around.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Go ahead, go ahead, Rob, Father finished hold on, Rob
holding just for one second, Father Gasper just had a comment, Godfather.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I think Cardinal Skulder certainly was a name that was
being spoken in lots of circles back then. And I
think if I think there was even a mistake made
in the day of the of the election that the
Bishop's Conference of Italy accidentally put out an announcement they
were prepared for Cardinal Scola Uh to be to be elected,
and someone hit the sense the send button a little
(29:16):
too early. So yeah, they had their job the next
day or not.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, well he could keep that as a souvenir. That's
for your go ahead, Rob. You had a follow up question.
I'm sorry, go ahead, Rob.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Yes, I was going to say, my mother was so
excited for that, she'd still be rooting for it. But
what a glorious day for his excellency that for his
soul to answer the kingdom. I haven't on Easter Sunday.
I can imagine what a glorious celebration that must have been.
And I hope to see it with all of us someday,
(29:49):
and and and and and not to put a theirport
on anything, But is there actually a restriction that the
pope hass the biological male.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Be a male. He doesn't have to be ordained, but
he has to be a male. But but Robbie, you're
going back to what you just said about the timing
of this. You just couldn't have orchestrated this any better
that the Holy Father, you know, really just moments after
the celebration of Easter, and that you know that final
appearance in Saint Peter's Square where he blessed the people
(30:27):
and wished this all a happy Easter and shared such
beautiful words that he had prepared. I mean that you know,
he's awakening today to God's glory in heaven. And it's
really the fact that he he passed so close to
this feast which is central to the Christian faith, the resurrection,
the everything is a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, without the resurrection, there's no Catholic Church. Correct when
you think about it, rob Out, I'll tell you. Thank you,
both you and I Rob. Even though we're not ordained
where ell is you to become pope. I just want
to let you know that. Okay, he.
Speaker 5 (31:11):
Vegas should be way off on me.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I know me too. Thank you, Rob, appreciate the call.
Thanks again. We got to take a quick cook. We
got to take a quick break. My name is Dan Ray.
We're gonna wrap it up with father Jonathan Gasper. Take
up more phone calls. Feel free join the conversation. Coming
right back on night Side six one, seven, two, four thirty.
Back right after this.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
It's night Side with Dan on w the Boston's news.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Radio with me his father Jonathan Gasper, the pastor of
Saint Mary's of the Assumption Cathy Church in Brookline. Let
me get to Julie in Brookline. Julia, welcome here. I'm
with father Gasper. Go right ahead.
Speaker 6 (31:54):
Good evening, Dan, Good evening party, Gasper. Dan, You'll be
surprised that very much liked in Iran, and it was
very popular and the reason was more than anything else.
And during the Oboman administration, Holy Father came to Congress
and spoke there highly of Iran and told them to
(32:16):
accept the nuclear deal. They were doing at the time,
and men I heard that I was visiting my mother
at the time. The following week, I Tola sent President
of Ivan to Vargain to personally tank Pope and they
also present him with very special Persian rug. So Pope
Francis was very much popular guy in Iran. I just
(32:41):
thought to let you.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Know, No, I appreciate that Jalil is a friend of
mine who was born in Iran and who came to
this country. If I recall Jalil either just before or
just after the Iotola took power in the late nineteen seventies, No, just.
Speaker 6 (32:58):
Three years before the evolution, and I came.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Here, Okay, so it was nineteen seventy six then, because
then came here right And Julia, if I can tell
the story that I was able to help get your
mom out and I had the pleasure of meeting your
mother over But we worked Julia worked at Channel four
(33:21):
for a while and he asked me his mom was
having difficulty getting beyond I believe was Istan Bull and
we were able to pull a couple of strings, and
so Julia's mom got a chance to come to the
United States. She eventually went back volunteering.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
Back and she always spoke highly of you, and she
always told their friend that you know, she knows somebody
very high office in the United State. For then, because
she rejected when she went to embassy to get it.
And this is for father, and that's why I'm telling this.
And she was rejected the visa and then then got
(33:58):
involved with the Speaker of the Speaker O'Neil, and then
she got the visa and came here. So he is
thankful for Dan, and so I just thought to let
you know that the Holy Father is very popular in Iran.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
All right, Julia has always thank you. I know your
mom has passed on, but I'm so happy that I
could that I was able to meet her, and thank you.
Thank you Julia's talk, good night. It was really a
very interesting time, Father, the gaspar Let me go to
Joe in Cambridge. I think Joe has a story about
(34:36):
Pope Francis that he would like to share.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Go ahead, Joe, Hey, Joe, Hey Dan, Hey, father, do
you know anything about a Celtic shirt with a young
man from Cambridge that presented of the Holy Father several
years ago?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Father, I do. I think there was a young man
from the cathedral actually who was traveling. Do you know
this guy personally? I do, Foo, I do, I do
so yeah, So I hear, I hear. Pope Francis is
a great Celtics fan. And I think I think this
guy even brought uh. I think this guy even brought
(35:11):
the Holy Father a signed baseball from the Red Sox.
So I think our Holy Father has great love for
the Boston sports teams. He's got good taste.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Tell the story. I only got a minute or so left.
He'll tell that story quickly, so we let everyone else
in on the conversation. Go ahead, Joe.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
So, I had the oppos of the honor to travel
with Cardinal O'Malley to Rome once and I didn't tell
the Cardinal. And during the private audience, I had a
Boston Celtics ship when they world won the World championship.
I think it was two years ago. And as I
approached the Holy Father, I took it out of my
suit coat and I presented to him and I said,
Holy Father, this is for you because he loves, you know, football,
(35:55):
But I didn't bring the football. I bought the basically
basketball and he said no, no, no, no else, and
then he signed it and there was a line of
like twenty people on the back and he says, they
can wait, they can wait, and I was just so nervous.
Speaker 6 (36:07):
Man.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
But anyways, Father is well aware of it.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
So you have to signed basketball from Pope Francis.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Basketball, a baseball and a Celtics shirt green Celtics shirt. O, God,
don't have don't ever put them up for auction.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You'll, you'll, you'll, you'll put yourself into a different tax category.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Love the love the story, Joe, Thank you so much,
perfect thanking to the hour. Thank you so.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Much, Thanks Joe.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Father. How did you know, Well, of course you were.
You were the Cardinal secretary, so you knew everything.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
The story like that and the picture that in exchange
just went viral. It was a great moment. And you
can see the excitement in the Pope's face when he
loves he loves soccer, but I think he just loves
what what you know the world is sport and what
sports do for culture and for people.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Absolutely, Father, thank you so much. You gave us some
great insights tonight. I do appreciate your time tonight more
than I can tell you. And I look forward to
meeting at some point. And you know, I wish you
great success at Saint Mary's the Assumption in Brookline.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Thanks Dan, Thanks everyone, have a great night.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
All right. So there was that I thought an interesting hour.
What I'd like to do in the next hour is
give you an opportunity to comment. It's just going to
be me and you on your recollection of Pope Francis.
And again, I know there were some things that he
said that were met by different people. Whenever you represent
(37:46):
one point three or one point four billion people worldwide,
not everyone is going to agree with everything you do.
And we can talk about with the conclave is going
to go as well, that's a possibility, but your thoughts
about it if you've been to Rome. I was in
Rome last summer with fifteen individuals who became good friends,
and we visited, visited the Vatican, did the big tour
(38:10):
at the Vatican, which was one of the highlights of
the trip. And I'm so glad that my memory is
so fresh of that. I was at the Vatican also
in eighty six when Cardinal Law was elevated to the
College of Cardinals. Got some open lines six one seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six, one seven, nine three one, ten
thirty there are there subjects we can talk about, but
(38:32):
I'd like to endeaference to all of you, give you
an opportunity to express your thoughts. Tonight, the night of
the passing of Boat Francis. My name is Dan Bay,
and this is nightside
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