October 1, 2024 • 35 mins
This week, Tommy is joined by actor Gavin Leatherwood, who became a household name by playing the beloved role as a warlock named Nicholas in the hit Netflix drama series, Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. Just in time for spooky season, his latest film, It’s What’s Inside, drops October 4th on Netflix. It was the largest acquisition out of Sundance in 2024, and Netflix paid a record breaking $17 million for this psychological thriller. Today, Gavin opens up about if he often thinks about his time on Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, his thoughts on revisiting the series if a reboot or spin-off came around, what he really thought about how the series ended, the spontaneous adventure he went on right after the series wrapped, why playing a character so opposite of him in It’s What’s Inside was so fulfilling, who he would choose to swap bodies with if given the chance, why he always wants to continue pushing himself out of his comfort zone, his complicated relationship with social media, how he protects his mental health, why the company he keeps is so important to him, how he actively tries to eliminate the phrase “I hate” from his vocabulary, and so much more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me.
Tommy di Dario. Today's guest is a fan favorite actor
and an all around incredible human being. Gavin Leatherwood joins
a show who became a household name from his beloved
role in the hit drama series Chilling Adventures of Sabrina,
which was on Netflix, where he played a warlock named
(00:24):
Nicholas alongside the lovely Kieran in Schipka. Now to celebrate
spooky season, which happens to be one of my favorite
times of the year, his latest film called It's What's Inside.
It drops October fourth on Netflix and let me tell you, oh,
I predict it's going to be huge. The movie is
smart and sexy, it's captivating, it keeps you on the
(00:45):
edge of your seat for the entire time. Now here's
a fun fact. It was the largest acquisition out of
sun Dance in twenty twenty four and Netflix paid a
record breaking seventeen million dollars for this psychological thriller. So yeah,
it's safe to say Netflix saw something in this movie.
Oh and my dear friend Coleman Domingo, he's the executive
(01:06):
producer of the movie and we all know his taste
is impeccable. Gavin Shine's bright in this film like he
always does, and man ah, he is such an all
around cool dude. So let's see if today we can
get Gavin to say something that he has never said before.
(01:29):
Gavin Leatherwood, how you doing on man? Welcome to New York.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Thank you, sir. It's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
It's good to have you here. Although a few seconds
ago you threatened to take my job and turn the
tables and interview me, so I'm not sure that's right.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I'm gonna be asking you a lot of personal stuff today.
Oh yeah, I hope you're ready. I have a list
year Oh good, good, good, Well, I can't wait. Kind
of regretting him having you on now, but it's all good.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
We'll have some fun. Well, welcome, welcome, I'm happy to
have you. I have a very important question to kick
off this conversation. And the Internet has deemed you their boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Oh how do you.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Become the Internet's boyfriend? What are those credentials? How do
I become that only cow?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I don't know if I know the answer to that.
I think the Internet is this own beast of its
own thing that just sort of takes off and runs
into different directions.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I'm not really sure.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I don't know what I've done. Take a couple of
pictures and post them, and I guess that's what works
at that. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Man, did you know that you were called the Internet's boyfriend?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I mean I did, like maybe years ago when I
was when I was a younger buck, But I didn't know.
I didn't know. I was still dude.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
You're still up there?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Okay, Well that's cool.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Well there you go, there you go. Hopefully I will
learn the ways after our conversation to make sure.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
You'll do just fine. All right with those with those
baby blue eyes.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Bro, we'll listen. I've been told they're nice here and there,
and so I'll work my way up. But anyway, we
have a movie to talk about today. It's fantastic. But
before we get to that, I kind of want to
reflect a bit on some other things that got you
to this point, one being, of course, I would say,
the show that kind of put you on the map,
It shot you into this international superstardom, right, the Chilling
(03:04):
Adventures of Sabrina. Do you think about your time on
that show often? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Actually, I just watched the bloopers recently that are on YouTube,
and it's a great time to reminisce on. I mean,
I don't know if any of us really knew how
special it was when we're in it. You know that thing.
It's nostalgia. Really, It's like you're doing something and you're
just you're just filled with joy and having fun and
(03:29):
doing the damn thing. And then you know, some years
pass and you get to look back and be like, wow,
that was really special. And I actually just saw a
bunch of the cast members the other night for the Emmys.
You know, there's a there's a little party, a little gathering.
I got to see Tati and Abby and Luke and
Kiernan was there somewhere, but I managed to miss her unfortunately.
(03:50):
But we're all just like still we all still love
each other and see each other now and then, and yeah,
it's like a little family. Man. Yeah, it's crazy when
you when you go through something like that together and.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
You'll always have that, right, Like, I'm sure that's what's
so special about doing a show like that is you're
bonded for life.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Totally, dude. Yeah, it's a it's one of the most
like joyous moments that I've lived in my thirty years
of life. You know, Yeah, I've got such gratitude for
that time.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Well, aside from the cast you're clearly so close to
Like what do you miss the most about being on
that show and having that kind of be those formative
years of your career?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I mean, God, what do I miss the most about
that time? Honestly, Like the routine of that job was
really nice, Like having a sense of direction and stability.
It's like as close you're going to get in this
industry to a nine to five is working in television,
and honestly, that's really nice. You know, a lot of
(04:48):
our job is unpredictable and we don't know like when
the next one's coming or where it's going to take us.
You know a lot of people might like pedestalize the
job of an actor, but it's kind of wild to
uproot your life at any given moment and move across
the map or you know, be away from friends and
family and what you have going on. So yeah, like
(05:10):
that that stability is nice, and having that with all
these people that you love, which is luck. I think.
I don't know, that was just a really nice aspect
of that job and I miss that, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, yeah, when you said the word nostalgic, right, and
that's so hot right now. Everybody wants to feel the
way we felt at a certain time, and you see
that more and more with the rise of reboots and
remakes and spin offs. Is that something you ever think about, Like,
could I go back to that role if that opportunity
presented itself?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Oh man, I've thought about this. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
It would have to be done in such a way
that is above my pay grade. Like I couldn't tell
you what it would be like, but I feel like
we didn't. We didn't deliver the ending that the fans deserve.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Well, it was controversial, Yeah, people either liked it or
people either really didn't like it, as I'm sure you
saw on social media, right, Yeah, and for everyone listening
with spoiler alert. But your character sacrificed himself right to
be with Sabrina. Huh.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
But it was controversial, Yeah, totally, So you felt that too, totally.
I mean, it wasn't our plan to end the show,
but COVID happened after you've finished filming, so we were like,
and I think you know, Roberto who is our showrunner,
had multiple shows going and you kind of had to
figure out, you know, what he could save in the
process of what COVID was. So, you know, Sabrina unfortunately
(06:41):
got like a weird little bow tie and it was
the end.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
How do you deal with something like that? Like you're
you're as you said, you're a artist. You know, there's
no guarantee of work, you're on something that's a hit,
you're having the time of your life, and then it
just kind of gets taken away. Yeah, you grapple with.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
That, well, dude, I mean I I was, looking back,
I was probably a bit more naive than I am now.
I mean I bought a sprinter van right after that
and drove over the country and just traveled and like
lived out of a van for a while. So I
just wanted to do something different. I was like, all right,
it's COVID time, so work is not going to be constant,
but something's gonna come along and blah blah blah. You know,
(07:19):
I was just like a little careless or like whatever whatever, whatever,
whatever's going to happen is going to happen. But you know,
time goes on and you learn but yeah, I got
in I got in a sprinter van and just drove around.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Dude, that's wild. For how long?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I did that for like a few months at least.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
It was like your et prey love moment.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
It was just in the States. I didn't go abroad
for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
It was cool.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
I love being on the road. I've done stuff like
that since too. I just last summer drove my truck
across country from Oregon to Texas to New York and back.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Camping and staying in hotels.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, clearly a nature guy.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I got wanderlest man. I just want to see and
there's something really meditative about being on the road. You
get a lot of thinking done.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
That's a weird concept to me being in New York
City because you know, you don't have a lot of
nature and escapism, right. And I'm originally from New Jersey,
so my family's down at the beach, you know, the shore,
as we say, and I try to get out there
and see them just to have that R and R
and like reset the mind. But I imagine, especially being
in Hollywood and working as an actor and having the
pressures that come with that, you really must need that too.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Dude, totally. I mean it's it's a different world, you know, la,
And like any big city has its own thing that's
so different from the rest of the country, you know.
And yeah, I mean being amongst trees or the ocean
or anything. Nature is just so rejuvenating for the soul. Man,
(08:48):
it's important. If I don't get that, I go crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, I lose it a little bit. Yeah, I feel you,
I feel you.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Get out of the city tone.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I'm trying, man, I'm trying. Well. Something that I know
also made you a bit crazy was the movie I
just saw.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
You in It Make you crazy too.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I felt like I was going a little crazy watch it.
It was amazing. It was such a wild ride. It's
called It's What's Inside? And why don't you tea up?
What this movie is about? How would you describe it?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
This is a psychological thriller with body swapping elements. Eight
friends are meeting on the eve of a best friend's
wedding and a estranged friend shows up with a mysterious
briefcase that allows us all to swap bodies, and then
you know, naturally, madness ensues. But it's fun. It's anxiety
(09:38):
you're in and at times, it's sexy at times, and
it's just a good old fashioned fun movie. And your
character is I played Dennis. Dennis. He's like, he's a
trust fun baby. He's very different from who I am.
He's like heavily tattooed, a bit of a loud. I
(10:00):
had such a fun time playing him, dude. There's something
really neat about playing someone so different from your own personality,
where you get to like kind of leave you out
in the world and you get to put on this
completely different person, you know, I don't know, it's rewarding
(10:20):
to play. Yeah, And I kept the tattoos on, like
even in between the duration of our shoots, so I
would go back home and be, like, you know, covered
in tattoos, and it was an interesting social experiment.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
How long was that for?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
We shot for eighteen days, well, eighteen nights, I should
say it was all night shoots. That's it so quick, dude, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
That whole movie was done in eight eighteen freaking days.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, how I don't know, honestly, Like, because we were
shooting at night too, a lot of delirium was present,
So I honestly don't know. And it surprises a lot
of people. I don't think they wanted us to say that,
Like early on for some reason they didn't want to
let on that we shot it that fast. But like
it's really a testament to the crew on what they
(11:04):
were able to accomplish in such a short amount of time.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
That's incredible, man. People, I think a lot of people
don't understand the amount of work that goes into a
production like that. Like I Coleman Domingo's a buddy and
he shot his movie Sing Sing in fourteen days. I
think like he had a short time period between two
other movies, and he did it in that amount of time,
and it was unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Some always freak of nature in a lot of ways.
He's a stud dude.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, But to do any sort of project in the
amount of time you did it, you have to be
kind of a freaking nature and you know have the
tools to do it. So when you read the script,
what made you say I have to be a part
of this, because I imagine you know, you have your
choosing of projects and then can decide what you want
to do. Why this?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Why was it this? Man? I mean the script itself.
I actually found confusing. I had a tough time keeping
track of like where everyone was, and it's pacing changes
like all at once, it seems, and you feel whisked
away into a completely different tone almost. And it wasn't
really until I called my buddy James, who I had
(12:07):
worked with previous and he was already signed on to
do it, and he spoke highly of Greg and was like,
you should talk to him. He's really sharp, and I
was like, all right, cool. So I met up with
Greg and I just believed in him, Like I don't know,
he just had such a specific vision, he had a plan.
His pitch deck was like really different than a lot
(12:29):
of stuff I'd seen. And he just came to this
meeting and was enthusiastic and excited, and that got me
enthusiastic and excited. He was like, I think this is
an opportunity for you to totally change like people's perspective
of how they see you, Like they've seen you as
this as the Internet boyfriend or whatever you want to
call it, right, And he's like, this is not that.
(12:51):
And I liked that, and I feel inspired to continue
to stretch in that regard. You know, I think a
lot of a lot of actors may play their personalities
on screen often, and that's cool, and you know, there's
a lot of charming personalities out there to fall in
love with. But I'm really a fan of the people
(13:12):
who disappear into their roles entirely, and you know, the
Philip Seymour Hoffman's of the world. Like, you know, I'm
not saying I'm that, but I hold that as like
the north star of aiming at and going towards that.
If I'm not stretching, then I don't feel like I'm expanding,
and then if I'm not expanding, then I'm contracting and
(13:32):
I don't want to do that. As an artist.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, you're somebody who wants to keep growing, right, And
I think that all of us, no matter what field
we're in, should strive for that. Or I feel like,
what's the point. Totally, I don't want to I don't
want to be like I'm good as I am today. No, yeah,
I want to be better.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, absolutely, I agree.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
That's pretty cool. So body swapping mm hmm, big theme
of this movie. Yeah, yeah, who do you want to
spot bodies with? If you could, somebody alive and somebody
who maybe has passed on to the other side. If
you thought about that before.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Just someone whose height starts with a six would be
cool just for a change at pace. No, I mean honestly, dude,
After being a part of this project and seeing the movie,
it's really made me grateful to be in my own body.
(14:29):
I truly think that if any of us really gave
a lot of thought to wanting to be someone else,
at the end of the day, I don't think we
would really want to do it. I don't know there
was a time where I would be, like maybe before
this project, where I'd be like, I want to be
Ryan Gossling, dude, because who wouldn't want to be solid choice?
(14:51):
He's cool man, Like, you know, I think he's just
all around cool, right, But like, who knows what that
guy's life is? Like, you know, I mean you think
that you pick your ideal person and then when you
really put yourself in their body with their responsibilities or
their obligations or you know, they're like for specific like
(15:11):
his lack of anonymity, Like you wouldn't really want that.
I don't think. I don't know if I would really
want that, you know. So, I don't know. I just
think that there's a level of gratitude that can be
maybe achieved after watching the film even and going, oh,
I'm happy to beat me, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Mm hmm. Yeah, you never really know what somebody else
is going through totally and you see one thing, but
that's a presentation, right, It's fake. And that's actually, to
me one of the themes of this movie. There are many,
and I don't want to dive into too many of
them because I don't want to give anything away, but
one of the themes that is not a spoiler is
kind of this idea of how much of a for
(15:49):
lack of a better phrase, mind fuck social media can
be and how you are constantly comparing yourself to people
and wanting to sometimes have what they have based on
what you see on a screen. Right, So for you,
especially being in the spotlight and having a very public persona,
like what's your relationship with social media?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Like, oh, man, how much time do you have, dude?
Speaker 1 (16:11):
As much as you need?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, I mean, this will do it. I don't know, man.
I mean, I'm a ninety four baby and all of
this stuff was not a part of my childhood. It
really came and changed and changed fast. Like even someone
who's like four years younger than me, grew up in
a completely different world which we were like just talking
about on the way over here. How do I deal
(16:34):
with it? I keep it at a healthy distance, Like
I have time limits that because I'm you know, totally
guilty of the doom scroll and shit, like I fall
prey to that all the time. And you know, it's
still so new that like I don't think we really
know the consequences of it, you know, like it hasn't
been around long enough for us to really understand that. No,
(16:55):
And you know, there's been documentaries done on it and
studies that have like looked at our overall mental well
being with the involvement of social media, and like, you know,
it's a little scary if you get into it. At
its best, it connects us, right, you know, and it's
a platform for us to create from, and you know,
(17:16):
it can bridge the gap with say fans who would
be strangers in one regard, but because of this, they
have a little piece. And it's like, you know, I
love people, and I love talking to people, and I
would always encourage people if they were to see me
to say hi or something if they were a fan,
like I love that, but yeah, there's just this whole
other layer that it's created in our culture that I
(17:38):
don't know if it's doing more good or harm, but
I could place my bets on one.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, you know, Yeah, that's with something that really strikes me.
Watching the movie. You feel bad for one of these
characters who so badly wants what someone else has, and
it's so real. It's so real. And to your point,
I'm older than you. I'm an eighty six baby, thirty eight,
and I grew up when none of this was around
as well for longer.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Not thirty eight. What the hell I am thirty eight? Dude,
you gotta tell me your secret once the cameras stop rolling.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I am thirty eight, thirty eight. Thank you appreciate it.
But yeah, I grew up where you would go play
outside for nine hours, Tag and Manheim and all the
things and didn't have to worry about these right. So
even for me, it's this kind of struggle to find
the balance between using it for work and putting up
what I want to put up, you know, but then
(18:31):
pushing it away and saying like, Okay, no, it's the weekend.
I don't need to be on it. Right now totally.
Why is it in my hand?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I mean it's seemingly here to stay. Yeah, right, so
I think we have to have some form of discipline
in terms of like being able to put it away. Yeah,
and if you don't have that, you know, like you're
going to become a slave to it. Should check your
screen time lately, you know what I mean? Like how
much time are you spending on there? Yeah? And how
much of that is for work or productivity versus mind
(19:01):
numbing entertainment. Mm hmm, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Well, but here's a question. So you have a movie
coming out, Yeah, promotion is a huge part of it. Sure,
people are gonna be talking about it. How often are
you checking into all of that on social media?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Like?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Are you allowed to put out your art do what
you have to do promo wise, and not go on
social as much? Are you kind of like all right,
what are people saying? What's going on?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah? I'm definitely on it more often than normal, you know,
But the justification there is like, yeah, but I'm looking
in to see what this little like art baby that
we created is doing out there in the world. Like
I still care. It's it feels not that I have
a kid, but I would imagine it feels similar to
like raising this thing and then like putting it out
(19:44):
in the world, and you know, being like the nervous
mother or father.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
That's like, how are you like what's going on?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Checking in? You know, like I feel a little bit
more of that now, and you know, when when there's
not a project to check in on, I'm like, you know,
the kids have flown the coop ages ago, and I'm
able to not look at it so much. And that's
kind of how I prefer it, to be honest, I
would prefer to not be on it.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Well, we're all finding the balance. So if you figure
out the answer to that, you let me know, because
I'm on the hunt for that all the time. This
cast is phenomenal and I feel like everyone is so
different and offers such a fine, you know, interesting character.
And I can only imagine the amount of fun you
all had for just over two weeks shooting this right, Like,
(20:34):
how fun was it working with this group? It was
really good.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
We actually had an extra week too, so we shot
for eighteen days, but we rehearsed for a week and
that week was like crucial bonding time. We got to
pick up on each other's mannerisms because we're all playing
parts of each other at different parts of the movie,
you know, so to like meticulously study your castmates and
realize that you're not just preparing your character, you're also
(20:57):
preparing you know, each respective character as well, and we're
all It all takes place at like I think they
had a couple of different shots that took place outside
of this house, but we shot in this big house
in Portland, Oregon, and we were all just like in
this little enclosed space together the whole time, you know,
(21:19):
and everyone else was, you know, flying up from wherever
they were coming from. And I was the only one
that lived in Oregon. I my family's in Oregon, and
I I was there for the duration of the shoot.
So it was just kind of fun to like have
all these people up in this like, you know, outside
of their regular territory. And Oregon's a special place and yeah,
(21:43):
you know, and when you shoot together all night, you
it's like slumber party vibes. Yeah, you know, when you
like hang out with friends during the day, it's very
different than like what happens in the middle of the night.
Like it's just different and that creates memories that you
don't forget easily, you know. Yeah, it was so fun.
(22:04):
I love this gas. They're all so talented too.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, everyone's phenomenal. And yeah, like I said, you all
offer something so different, which is really cool, so good.
I find a rewarding when you come across a movie
that you actually feel like, Wow, that was worth my time,
because nowadays people want bite size, binge worthy things, and
I feel like movies are sometimes a bit of a
harder cell, especially getting people to a theater, but even streaming.
(22:30):
So why must people tune into this movie? Like why
can't we miss it? What would you say?
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Oh? Man, I feel like yeah, like more to your point,
we've sort of like the landscape of film and television
has totally changed, you know. Streaming has has kind of
swept the whole entertainment industry in a big way. And
it's you know, it's inspired certain things to just get
(22:58):
made quickly, you know. And this movie was made with
a very specific, meticulous vision that was Greg who's a
first time director. He directed this, he wrote it, he
did the VFX, and he edited it, which is just like,
hats off to him because that's a lot of work.
And I remember seeing him after we shot it, like
(23:18):
several months after, and you know, he looked a little crazy,
I'm not gonna lie, like he had been keeping his
head down and really working hard at this thing and
it turned out the way he had envisioned it, you know.
And I think so much of what gets made like
might get watered down by a lot of different opinions.
You know, Like you have a writer write a script,
(23:38):
then they take it to a studio or a streaming
service or a producer, and then they go, yeah, but
this is gonna change, and this is going to change,
and then you know, and then from there it goes
to the director and goes, yeah, but this is going
to change, and this is going to change, and then
it gets so far away from what it was originally
intended to be. And this is something that is purely
from this creative dude's mind, and you feel that, like
(24:01):
it doesn't it. You know, it went to Sundance, they
submitted it, and it got a screen there, and it's
still true to like who this dude was as an artist.
You know, imagine sharing a canvas with five other painters. Yeah,
it wouldn't really be cohesive, No, but this is a
you know, aside from all of that, like, it's just
(24:21):
a fun fucking movie. Man, It's a wild ride. Everyone's
like so on their a game in this like that.
I think being in an ensemble of eight very talented actors,
you know, it encourages you to be your best and
we all had that and we felt like we were
in the trenches together during it. And you know, our
whole crew too, is just like right there and it's
(24:44):
just fun. Man. I think people are just gonna really
enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
And it's unpredictable. Yeah, it's very rare that I'm like
truly truly thrown. When I'm watching something, I can usually
connect the dots. This one no idea good no idea.
At the ending, I was like, what the Like it
was crazy and I'm leaving it there. But like, everybody
really needs to tune in because to me, it's fresh,
it's fun, and it's part of the thrill is trying
(25:08):
to figure out, well, how is this going to pan
out for everybody? So I am I'm a fan of it.
I'm not just saying that I'm a fan of the movie.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I am I'm gonna hook you up to the light
touch All right, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Let's do it. Let's do it. Man, you touch on
something earlier, and when we were talking about the theme
of social media and kind of protecting your mental health
and your space. It's a real thing today, right, Like
the mental health aspect of the world we live in.
(25:40):
It's it's I always say, it's a crisis, and people
need to I think, have more open and honest conversations
about it. So, like, how do you protect your headspace?
Like what do you do as Gavin when you're not
on set, when you can just be who you are
and not a character to get in touch with that.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Man, you are the the five people that you spend
the most time with, Like you're the average of the
five people that you hang out with the most, you know,
And I think that that's just like that's a big
piece of the pie. There's a lot of things that
I do, you know, personally, and a lot of things
that I think everyone maybe could benefit from, like journaling
and meditating and therapy and you know, like exercising and
(26:22):
eating well and getting sun and getting good sleep. Like
you know, there's obviously like those aspects, but I didn't
really feel like maybe secure in my being until I
had a group of people around me who were like minded,
who I could talk to, who I could be vulnerable with.
You know, I mean, so much of this world is,
(26:43):
like we're saying, and on social media, it's just like
a very shallow representation of people. And you know, if
you don't have like a group of people that you
can cry in front of or express yourself honestly with,
it's it's hard, man, you know. And you know, I
remember like manifesting my group of friends because I just
kind of kept my head down and did my own thing,
(27:05):
and you know, was really fixated on career and you know,
being an artist and all this right, very die hard
in that regard, and I didn't leave a lot of
room for a social life, for things outside of career.
And when you put all that emphasis and pressure on
one area of your life, it can be totally consuming.
(27:25):
And as soon as I was like, oh, I need
a good group of friends, like I want to be
around a good group of people who you know, I
have some sort of like brotherhood or camaraderie with, and
I asked for that. And then you know, my buddy
uh Enzo, who I had known like here and there
out in public. Literally texted me that day and was like,
(27:47):
do you want to come camping with me and some guys?
And I was like camping, that's like right in my eye.
And he was like, we're not going to Cochella. I
don't know if you are. I was like, I'm fucking
coming camping, dude, Like let's go to the desert and
like sleep on the on the ground, and it just
like it just happened, and now we're all buddies. And
since then, I just feel like some greater connection and
sense of purpose that I don't think I otherwise would
(28:09):
have gotten just from a career solely. You know, So
you have to, I don't know, you have to strike
a balance in life, and you know, there's more to
life than just work or just you know, whatever, whatever
the thing is for you.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, it's funny you say that, because I, you know,
I've interviewed I don't know, let's say, thousands and thousands
of people up to this point, and one of the
most common themes I see is and it's sad, as
the people who I've interviewed who sometimes have the most
success in the world and didn't give themselves any space
to be who they really are and not a character.
Are sometimes the loneliest and it's like wow, and it's hard, right,
(28:45):
easier so than done. You have a goal, you're working towards,
a very very very hard goal that's not attainable by
most of the population. It's you know, whatever that industry is.
There's various industries that can be said for So, yes,
you have to put in the work and put your
head down some and do what you need to do
to get there. But then it's realizing the point where
you need to say, Okay, I'm there or I'm in
(29:06):
the realm of what makes me happy, so let me
start filling other buckets of my life.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, man, yeah, yeah, I think you know, I don't know.
I mean I could talk about this for hours, honestly,
but like to be in such an achieving culture, you know,
we there is no end. Yeah, there is no cap
to success or money. Like you know, well, okay, you've
done the thing. How much more of the thing do
you need than before you're happy? And I think cultivating
(29:32):
like joy or happiness is like more worthwhile maybe than
like material wealth or whatever that is. You know.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, No, I feel the same way. I will never
and this is true. I will never say I have
a professional goal without also adding in a personal goal,
like I'll always side by side them. So even when
I think about, you know, the new year, not that
I'm big on resolutions, but or whatever, Like, whenever I'm
thinking of what I want to achieve next, I say,
this is it plus something for me? Like that doesn't
(30:06):
include my worth based on my job, which I think
is an important thing. So I guess off of that,
for you, what's a personal goal you have and what's
the professional goal you have?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Oh? Man, I'm not big on resolutions either, I guess
I don't know, you know. I just try to do
my best in as many areas of my life as
I can. I'm a big fan of the book The
Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. I'm sure you've read.
I'm sure a lot of people have. But one of
the agreements is always do your best right, don't take
anything personally, be impeccable with your word, and don't make
(30:41):
assumptions right. Those are the four agreements. So like, in
terms of personal or professional goals, I really just want
to like maintain a sense of integrity of character through
whatever those things are the goals are going to change.
It's almost like there should be less of an emphasis
on the thing itself and more on the how you
(31:02):
do those things. Obviously, I want to work, I want
to be in more movies. I want to stretch as
an artist. I want to release music, and like, you know,
I want to continue to draw, and like I want
a well balanced social life, and I want to see
my family and I want to have a family, and
I want to be a good man. You know, I
mean all of those things obviously, but like I think,
(31:23):
I think that's obvious.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, but how are you.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Going to do all those things? I think that's the kicker,
and that's where the focus should really be. Like put
you know, that's what we should pay more attention to.
Maybe I feel like you're.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Taking me to church today and I'm here for I'm
here for it.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Not that I have the answers or all of them,
but you know, I don't know. That's just where I'm
at right now.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah. No, it's a good reminder. It's well said, and
I think it's always important when people in your position
speak to things like that. And even earlier you mentioned
like dude should be able to be vulnerable and try
like all of that, Yes, like more of that. I'm
such an advocate for all of that. My God, I
could talk to you for four more hours, but I'm
not sure your team would appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
So I might cry too if you did that, so
it's probably good.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
What I will do is I'm going to wrap up
with a question I ask everybody at the end of
my conversation with them, and that question is based off
the title of the show. I've never said this before,
So is there something you can think of whatever that
means to you, that you have never said before.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
You know, I have given this some thought because I
figured the title of the show that you would be
asking that question, And you know, I did some digging
into my into my own spirit and psyche. And I
don't say hardly ever that I hate something or someone.
(32:44):
The phrase like I hate feels so counterproductive to what
we're here to do, which is grow, you know, And
if you're not If you're not growing, then you're, like
I said earlier, if you're not expanding, then you're contracting
artistically and even as humans or in our souls or
whatever however existentially you want to get. But It doesn't
really do any good to hate anything, you know, Even
(33:07):
the bad experiences in life are so informative and they
teach us how to be better in some way, you know.
So if you can replace that like hatred for empathy
or compassion or gratitude, that's what I've tried to do.
And I don't if you ever catch me saying I
hate something or someone that, I'd give everyone permission to,
(33:28):
you know, slap me on the wrist and say, I
remember you said something about that. But yeah, man, I
just I don't have any of that inside of me,
and I don't intend to bring it with me wherever
I go.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
And when you hear it, it's a very jarring phrase,
at least to me, it is. It's like, oh.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Wow, yeah, it hurts, and there's plenty of it in
the world, you know. Yeah, it's like you have to
make a conscious effort to not allow yourself to get
wrapped up and all the bullshit and in our own egos. Right,
but we're here for such a short time, and you know,
we have the opportunity to make other people's experiences easier
(34:05):
or harder, and I just want to contribute towards the
light in any way I can.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Could you be any cooler?
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I'm what
do I say to that? How do I end this conversation?
After that?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I forget your dude? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Five eight and a half.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Well, I got my pumps in today, yeah five nine?
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, we'll take five to nine, Gavin.
Thank you for hanging out, man, truly a pleasure. You
remind everyone one more time. Your movie how to watch
When All the Things It's.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Called It's What's Inside. It's on Netflix October fourth. Be
sure to stream the Ship out of It.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Stream the Ship out of It. Thank you, my man,
Thank you dude.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Such a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Thank you. I've never said this before. It is hosted
by me, Tommy Diderio. This podcast is executive produced by
Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio and by me Tommy, with editing
by Joshua Colaudney. I've never I ever said this before
is part of the Elvis Duran podcast network on iHeart Podcasts.
(35:05):
For more, rate review and subscribe to our show and
if you liked this episode, tell your friends. Until next time.
I'm Tommy Diderio.
Hey guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me.
Tommy di Dario. Today's guest is a fan favorite actor
and an all around incredible human being. Gavin Leatherwood joins
a show who became a household name from his beloved
role in the hit drama series Chilling Adventures of Sabrina,
which was on Netflix, where he played a warlock named
(00:24):
Nicholas alongside the lovely Kieran in Schipka. Now to celebrate
spooky season, which happens to be one of my favorite
times of the year, his latest film called It's What's Inside.
It drops October fourth on Netflix and let me tell you, oh,
I predict it's going to be huge. The movie is
smart and sexy, it's captivating, it keeps you on the
(00:45):
edge of your seat for the entire time. Now here's
a fun fact. It was the largest acquisition out of
sun Dance in twenty twenty four and Netflix paid a
record breaking seventeen million dollars for this psychological thriller. So yeah,
it's safe to say Netflix saw something in this movie.
Oh and my dear friend Coleman Domingo, he's the executive
(01:06):
producer of the movie and we all know his taste
is impeccable. Gavin Shine's bright in this film like he
always does, and man ah, he is such an all
around cool dude. So let's see if today we can
get Gavin to say something that he has never said before.
(01:29):
Gavin Leatherwood, how you doing on man? Welcome to New York.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Thank you, sir. It's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
It's good to have you here. Although a few seconds
ago you threatened to take my job and turn the
tables and interview me, so I'm not sure that's right.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I'm gonna be asking you a lot of personal stuff today.
Oh yeah, I hope you're ready. I have a list
year Oh good, good, good, Well, I can't wait. Kind
of regretting him having you on now, but it's all good.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
We'll have some fun. Well, welcome, welcome, I'm happy to
have you. I have a very important question to kick
off this conversation. And the Internet has deemed you their boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Oh how do you.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Become the Internet's boyfriend? What are those credentials? How do
I become that only cow?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I don't know if I know the answer to that.
I think the Internet is this own beast of its
own thing that just sort of takes off and runs
into different directions.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I'm not really sure.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I don't know what I've done. Take a couple of
pictures and post them, and I guess that's what works
at that. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Man, did you know that you were called the Internet's boyfriend?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I mean I did, like maybe years ago when I
was when I was a younger buck, But I didn't know.
I didn't know. I was still dude.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
You're still up there?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Okay, Well that's cool.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Well there you go, there you go. Hopefully I will
learn the ways after our conversation to make sure.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
You'll do just fine. All right with those with those
baby blue eyes.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Bro, we'll listen. I've been told they're nice here and there,
and so I'll work my way up. But anyway, we
have a movie to talk about today. It's fantastic. But
before we get to that, I kind of want to
reflect a bit on some other things that got you
to this point, one being, of course, I would say,
the show that kind of put you on the map,
It shot you into this international superstardom, right, the Chilling
(03:04):
Adventures of Sabrina. Do you think about your time on
that show often? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Actually, I just watched the bloopers recently that are on YouTube,
and it's a great time to reminisce on. I mean,
I don't know if any of us really knew how
special it was when we're in it. You know that thing.
It's nostalgia. Really, It's like you're doing something and you're
just you're just filled with joy and having fun and
(03:29):
doing the damn thing. And then you know, some years
pass and you get to look back and be like, wow,
that was really special. And I actually just saw a
bunch of the cast members the other night for the Emmys.
You know, there's a there's a little party, a little gathering.
I got to see Tati and Abby and Luke and
Kiernan was there somewhere, but I managed to miss her unfortunately.
(03:50):
But we're all just like still we all still love
each other and see each other now and then, and yeah,
it's like a little family. Man. Yeah, it's crazy when
you when you go through something like that together and.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
You'll always have that, right, Like, I'm sure that's what's
so special about doing a show like that is you're
bonded for life.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Totally, dude. Yeah, it's a it's one of the most
like joyous moments that I've lived in my thirty years
of life. You know, Yeah, I've got such gratitude for
that time.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Well, aside from the cast you're clearly so close to
Like what do you miss the most about being on
that show and having that kind of be those formative
years of your career?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I mean, God, what do I miss the most about
that time? Honestly, Like the routine of that job was
really nice, Like having a sense of direction and stability.
It's like as close you're going to get in this
industry to a nine to five is working in television,
and honestly, that's really nice. You know, a lot of
(04:48):
our job is unpredictable and we don't know like when
the next one's coming or where it's going to take us.
You know a lot of people might like pedestalize the
job of an actor, but it's kind of wild to
uproot your life at any given moment and move across
the map or you know, be away from friends and
family and what you have going on. So yeah, like
(05:10):
that that stability is nice, and having that with all
these people that you love, which is luck. I think.
I don't know, that was just a really nice aspect
of that job and I miss that, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, yeah, when you said the word nostalgic, right, and
that's so hot right now. Everybody wants to feel the
way we felt at a certain time, and you see
that more and more with the rise of reboots and
remakes and spin offs. Is that something you ever think about, Like,
could I go back to that role if that opportunity
presented itself?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Oh man, I've thought about this. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
It would have to be done in such a way
that is above my pay grade. Like I couldn't tell
you what it would be like, but I feel like
we didn't. We didn't deliver the ending that the fans deserve.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Well, it was controversial, Yeah, people either liked it or
people either really didn't like it, as I'm sure you
saw on social media, right, Yeah, and for everyone listening
with spoiler alert. But your character sacrificed himself right to
be with Sabrina. Huh.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
But it was controversial, Yeah, totally, So you felt that too, totally.
I mean, it wasn't our plan to end the show,
but COVID happened after you've finished filming, so we were like,
and I think you know, Roberto who is our showrunner,
had multiple shows going and you kind of had to
figure out, you know, what he could save in the
process of what COVID was. So, you know, Sabrina unfortunately
(06:41):
got like a weird little bow tie and it was
the end.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
How do you deal with something like that? Like you're
you're as you said, you're a artist. You know, there's
no guarantee of work, you're on something that's a hit,
you're having the time of your life, and then it
just kind of gets taken away. Yeah, you grapple with.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
That, well, dude, I mean I I was, looking back,
I was probably a bit more naive than I am now.
I mean I bought a sprinter van right after that
and drove over the country and just traveled and like
lived out of a van for a while. So I
just wanted to do something different. I was like, all right,
it's COVID time, so work is not going to be constant,
but something's gonna come along and blah blah blah. You know,
(07:19):
I was just like a little careless or like whatever whatever, whatever,
whatever's going to happen is going to happen. But you know,
time goes on and you learn but yeah, I got
in I got in a sprinter van and just drove around.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Dude, that's wild. For how long?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I did that for like a few months at least.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
It was like your et prey love moment.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
It was just in the States. I didn't go abroad
for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
It was cool.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
I love being on the road. I've done stuff like
that since too. I just last summer drove my truck
across country from Oregon to Texas to New York and back.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Camping and staying in hotels.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, clearly a nature guy.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I got wanderlest man. I just want to see and
there's something really meditative about being on the road. You
get a lot of thinking done.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
That's a weird concept to me being in New York
City because you know, you don't have a lot of
nature and escapism, right. And I'm originally from New Jersey,
so my family's down at the beach, you know, the shore,
as we say, and I try to get out there
and see them just to have that R and R
and like reset the mind. But I imagine, especially being
in Hollywood and working as an actor and having the
pressures that come with that, you really must need that too.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Dude, totally. I mean it's it's a different world, you know, la,
And like any big city has its own thing that's
so different from the rest of the country, you know.
And yeah, I mean being amongst trees or the ocean
or anything. Nature is just so rejuvenating for the soul. Man,
(08:48):
it's important. If I don't get that, I go crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, I lose it a little bit. Yeah, I feel you,
I feel you.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Get out of the city tone.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I'm trying, man, I'm trying. Well. Something that I know
also made you a bit crazy was the movie I
just saw.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
You in It Make you crazy too.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I felt like I was going a little crazy watch it.
It was amazing. It was such a wild ride. It's
called It's What's Inside? And why don't you tea up?
What this movie is about? How would you describe it?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
This is a psychological thriller with body swapping elements. Eight
friends are meeting on the eve of a best friend's
wedding and a estranged friend shows up with a mysterious
briefcase that allows us all to swap bodies, and then
you know, naturally, madness ensues. But it's fun. It's anxiety
(09:38):
you're in and at times, it's sexy at times, and
it's just a good old fashioned fun movie. And your
character is I played Dennis. Dennis. He's like, he's a
trust fun baby. He's very different from who I am.
He's like heavily tattooed, a bit of a loud. I
(10:00):
had such a fun time playing him, dude. There's something
really neat about playing someone so different from your own personality,
where you get to like kind of leave you out
in the world and you get to put on this
completely different person, you know, I don't know, it's rewarding
(10:20):
to play. Yeah, And I kept the tattoos on, like
even in between the duration of our shoots, so I
would go back home and be, like, you know, covered
in tattoos, and it was an interesting social experiment.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
How long was that for?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
We shot for eighteen days, well, eighteen nights, I should
say it was all night shoots. That's it so quick, dude, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
That whole movie was done in eight eighteen freaking days.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, how I don't know, honestly, Like, because we were
shooting at night too, a lot of delirium was present,
So I honestly don't know. And it surprises a lot
of people. I don't think they wanted us to say that,
Like early on for some reason they didn't want to
let on that we shot it that fast. But like
it's really a testament to the crew on what they
(11:04):
were able to accomplish in such a short amount of time.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
That's incredible, man. People, I think a lot of people
don't understand the amount of work that goes into a
production like that. Like I Coleman Domingo's a buddy and
he shot his movie Sing Sing in fourteen days. I
think like he had a short time period between two
other movies, and he did it in that amount of time,
and it was unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Some always freak of nature in a lot of ways.
He's a stud dude.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, But to do any sort of project in the
amount of time you did it, you have to be
kind of a freaking nature and you know have the
tools to do it. So when you read the script,
what made you say I have to be a part
of this, because I imagine you know, you have your
choosing of projects and then can decide what you want
to do. Why this?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Why was it this? Man? I mean the script itself.
I actually found confusing. I had a tough time keeping
track of like where everyone was, and it's pacing changes
like all at once, it seems, and you feel whisked
away into a completely different tone almost. And it wasn't
really until I called my buddy James, who I had
(12:07):
worked with previous and he was already signed on to
do it, and he spoke highly of Greg and was like,
you should talk to him. He's really sharp, and I
was like, all right, cool. So I met up with
Greg and I just believed in him, Like I don't know,
he just had such a specific vision, he had a plan.
His pitch deck was like really different than a lot
(12:29):
of stuff I'd seen. And he just came to this
meeting and was enthusiastic and excited, and that got me
enthusiastic and excited. He was like, I think this is
an opportunity for you to totally change like people's perspective
of how they see you, Like they've seen you as
this as the Internet boyfriend or whatever you want to
call it, right, And he's like, this is not that.
(12:51):
And I liked that, and I feel inspired to continue
to stretch in that regard. You know, I think a
lot of a lot of actors may play their personalities
on screen often, and that's cool, and you know, there's
a lot of charming personalities out there to fall in
love with. But I'm really a fan of the people
(13:12):
who disappear into their roles entirely, and you know, the
Philip Seymour Hoffman's of the world. Like, you know, I'm
not saying I'm that, but I hold that as like
the north star of aiming at and going towards that.
If I'm not stretching, then I don't feel like I'm expanding,
and then if I'm not expanding, then I'm contracting and
(13:32):
I don't want to do that. As an artist.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, you're somebody who wants to keep growing, right, And
I think that all of us, no matter what field
we're in, should strive for that. Or I feel like,
what's the point. Totally, I don't want to I don't
want to be like I'm good as I am today. No, yeah,
I want to be better.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, absolutely, I agree.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
That's pretty cool. So body swapping mm hmm, big theme
of this movie. Yeah, yeah, who do you want to
spot bodies with? If you could, somebody alive and somebody
who maybe has passed on to the other side. If
you thought about that before.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Just someone whose height starts with a six would be
cool just for a change at pace. No, I mean honestly, dude,
After being a part of this project and seeing the movie,
it's really made me grateful to be in my own body.
(14:29):
I truly think that if any of us really gave
a lot of thought to wanting to be someone else,
at the end of the day, I don't think we
would really want to do it. I don't know there
was a time where I would be, like maybe before
this project, where I'd be like, I want to be
Ryan Gossling, dude, because who wouldn't want to be solid choice?
(14:51):
He's cool man, Like, you know, I think he's just
all around cool, right, But like, who knows what that
guy's life is? Like, you know, I mean you think
that you pick your ideal person and then when you
really put yourself in their body with their responsibilities or
their obligations or you know, they're like for specific like
(15:11):
his lack of anonymity, Like you wouldn't really want that.
I don't think. I don't know if I would really
want that, you know. So, I don't know. I just
think that there's a level of gratitude that can be
maybe achieved after watching the film even and going, oh,
I'm happy to beat me, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Mm hmm. Yeah, you never really know what somebody else
is going through totally and you see one thing, but
that's a presentation, right, It's fake. And that's actually, to
me one of the themes of this movie. There are many,
and I don't want to dive into too many of
them because I don't want to give anything away, but
one of the themes that is not a spoiler is
kind of this idea of how much of a for
(15:49):
lack of a better phrase, mind fuck social media can
be and how you are constantly comparing yourself to people
and wanting to sometimes have what they have based on
what you see on a screen. Right, So for you,
especially being in the spotlight and having a very public persona,
like what's your relationship with social media?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Like, oh, man, how much time do you have, dude?
Speaker 1 (16:11):
As much as you need?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, I mean, this will do it. I don't know, man.
I mean, I'm a ninety four baby and all of
this stuff was not a part of my childhood. It
really came and changed and changed fast. Like even someone
who's like four years younger than me, grew up in
a completely different world which we were like just talking
about on the way over here. How do I deal
(16:34):
with it? I keep it at a healthy distance, Like
I have time limits that because I'm you know, totally
guilty of the doom scroll and shit, like I fall
prey to that all the time. And you know, it's
still so new that like I don't think we really
know the consequences of it, you know, like it hasn't
been around long enough for us to really understand that. No,
(16:55):
And you know, there's been documentaries done on it and
studies that have like looked at our overall mental well
being with the involvement of social media, and like, you know,
it's a little scary if you get into it. At
its best, it connects us, right, you know, and it's
a platform for us to create from, and you know,
(17:16):
it can bridge the gap with say fans who would
be strangers in one regard, but because of this, they
have a little piece. And it's like, you know, I
love people, and I love talking to people, and I
would always encourage people if they were to see me
to say hi or something if they were a fan,
like I love that, but yeah, there's just this whole
other layer that it's created in our culture that I
(17:38):
don't know if it's doing more good or harm, but
I could place my bets on one.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, you know, Yeah, that's with something that really strikes me.
Watching the movie. You feel bad for one of these
characters who so badly wants what someone else has, and
it's so real. It's so real. And to your point,
I'm older than you. I'm an eighty six baby, thirty eight,
and I grew up when none of this was around
as well for longer.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Not thirty eight. What the hell I am thirty eight? Dude,
you gotta tell me your secret once the cameras stop rolling.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I am thirty eight, thirty eight. Thank you appreciate it.
But yeah, I grew up where you would go play
outside for nine hours, Tag and Manheim and all the
things and didn't have to worry about these right. So
even for me, it's this kind of struggle to find
the balance between using it for work and putting up
what I want to put up, you know, but then
(18:31):
pushing it away and saying like, Okay, no, it's the weekend.
I don't need to be on it. Right now totally.
Why is it in my hand?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I mean it's seemingly here to stay. Yeah, right, so
I think we have to have some form of discipline
in terms of like being able to put it away. Yeah,
and if you don't have that, you know, like you're
going to become a slave to it. Should check your
screen time lately, you know what I mean? Like how
much time are you spending on there? Yeah? And how
much of that is for work or productivity versus mind
(19:01):
numbing entertainment. Mm hmm, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Well, but here's a question. So you have a movie
coming out, Yeah, promotion is a huge part of it. Sure,
people are gonna be talking about it. How often are
you checking into all of that on social media?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Like?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Are you allowed to put out your art do what
you have to do promo wise, and not go on
social as much? Are you kind of like all right,
what are people saying? What's going on?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah? I'm definitely on it more often than normal, you know,
But the justification there is like, yeah, but I'm looking
in to see what this little like art baby that
we created is doing out there in the world. Like
I still care. It's it feels not that I have
a kid, but I would imagine it feels similar to
like raising this thing and then like putting it out
(19:44):
in the world, and you know, being like the nervous
mother or father.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
That's like, how are you like what's going on?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Checking in? You know, like I feel a little bit
more of that now, and you know, when when there's
not a project to check in on, I'm like, you know,
the kids have flown the coop ages ago, and I'm
able to not look at it so much. And that's
kind of how I prefer it, to be honest, I
would prefer to not be on it.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Well, we're all finding the balance. So if you figure
out the answer to that, you let me know, because
I'm on the hunt for that all the time. This
cast is phenomenal and I feel like everyone is so
different and offers such a fine, you know, interesting character.
And I can only imagine the amount of fun you
all had for just over two weeks shooting this right, Like,
(20:34):
how fun was it working with this group? It was
really good.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
We actually had an extra week too, so we shot
for eighteen days, but we rehearsed for a week and
that week was like crucial bonding time. We got to
pick up on each other's mannerisms because we're all playing
parts of each other at different parts of the movie,
you know, so to like meticulously study your castmates and
realize that you're not just preparing your character, you're also
(20:57):
preparing you know, each respective character as well, and we're
all It all takes place at like I think they
had a couple of different shots that took place outside
of this house, but we shot in this big house
in Portland, Oregon, and we were all just like in
this little enclosed space together the whole time, you know,
(21:19):
and everyone else was, you know, flying up from wherever
they were coming from. And I was the only one
that lived in Oregon. I my family's in Oregon, and
I I was there for the duration of the shoot.
So it was just kind of fun to like have
all these people up in this like, you know, outside
of their regular territory. And Oregon's a special place and yeah,
(21:43):
you know, and when you shoot together all night, you
it's like slumber party vibes. Yeah, you know, when you
like hang out with friends during the day, it's very
different than like what happens in the middle of the night.
Like it's just different and that creates memories that you
don't forget easily, you know. Yeah, it was so fun.
(22:04):
I love this gas. They're all so talented too.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, everyone's phenomenal. And yeah, like I said, you all
offer something so different, which is really cool, so good.
I find a rewarding when you come across a movie
that you actually feel like, Wow, that was worth my time,
because nowadays people want bite size, binge worthy things, and
I feel like movies are sometimes a bit of a
harder cell, especially getting people to a theater, but even streaming.
(22:30):
So why must people tune into this movie? Like why
can't we miss it? What would you say?
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Oh? Man, I feel like yeah, like more to your point,
we've sort of like the landscape of film and television
has totally changed, you know. Streaming has has kind of
swept the whole entertainment industry in a big way. And
it's you know, it's inspired certain things to just get
(22:58):
made quickly, you know. And this movie was made with
a very specific, meticulous vision that was Greg who's a
first time director. He directed this, he wrote it, he
did the VFX, and he edited it, which is just like,
hats off to him because that's a lot of work.
And I remember seeing him after we shot it, like
(23:18):
several months after, and you know, he looked a little crazy,
I'm not gonna lie, like he had been keeping his
head down and really working hard at this thing and
it turned out the way he had envisioned it, you know.
And I think so much of what gets made like
might get watered down by a lot of different opinions.
You know, Like you have a writer write a script,
(23:38):
then they take it to a studio or a streaming
service or a producer, and then they go, yeah, but
this is gonna change, and this is going to change,
and then you know, and then from there it goes
to the director and goes, yeah, but this is going
to change, and this is going to change, and then
it gets so far away from what it was originally
intended to be. And this is something that is purely
from this creative dude's mind, and you feel that, like
(24:01):
it doesn't it. You know, it went to Sundance, they
submitted it, and it got a screen there, and it's
still true to like who this dude was as an artist.
You know, imagine sharing a canvas with five other painters. Yeah,
it wouldn't really be cohesive, No, but this is a
you know, aside from all of that, like, it's just
(24:21):
a fun fucking movie. Man, It's a wild ride. Everyone's
like so on their a game in this like that.
I think being in an ensemble of eight very talented actors,
you know, it encourages you to be your best and
we all had that and we felt like we were
in the trenches together during it. And you know, our
whole crew too, is just like right there and it's
(24:44):
just fun. Man. I think people are just gonna really
enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
And it's unpredictable. Yeah, it's very rare that I'm like
truly truly thrown. When I'm watching something, I can usually
connect the dots. This one no idea good no idea.
At the ending, I was like, what the Like it
was crazy and I'm leaving it there. But like, everybody
really needs to tune in because to me, it's fresh,
it's fun, and it's part of the thrill is trying
(25:08):
to figure out, well, how is this going to pan
out for everybody? So I am I'm a fan of it.
I'm not just saying that I'm a fan of the movie.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I am I'm gonna hook you up to the light
touch All right, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Let's do it. Let's do it. Man, you touch on
something earlier, and when we were talking about the theme
of social media and kind of protecting your mental health
and your space. It's a real thing today, right, Like
the mental health aspect of the world we live in.
(25:40):
It's it's I always say, it's a crisis, and people
need to I think, have more open and honest conversations
about it. So, like, how do you protect your headspace?
Like what do you do as Gavin when you're not
on set, when you can just be who you are
and not a character to get in touch with that.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Man, you are the the five people that you spend
the most time with, Like you're the average of the
five people that you hang out with the most, you know,
And I think that that's just like that's a big
piece of the pie. There's a lot of things that
I do, you know, personally, and a lot of things
that I think everyone maybe could benefit from, like journaling
and meditating and therapy and you know, like exercising and
(26:22):
eating well and getting sun and getting good sleep. Like
you know, there's obviously like those aspects, but I didn't
really feel like maybe secure in my being until I
had a group of people around me who were like minded,
who I could talk to, who I could be vulnerable with.
You know, I mean, so much of this world is,
(26:43):
like we're saying, and on social media, it's just like
a very shallow representation of people. And you know, if
you don't have like a group of people that you
can cry in front of or express yourself honestly with,
it's it's hard, man, you know. And you know, I
remember like manifesting my group of friends because I just
kind of kept my head down and did my own thing,
(27:05):
and you know, was really fixated on career and you know,
being an artist and all this right, very die hard
in that regard, and I didn't leave a lot of
room for a social life, for things outside of career.
And when you put all that emphasis and pressure on
one area of your life, it can be totally consuming.
(27:25):
And as soon as I was like, oh, I need
a good group of friends, like I want to be
around a good group of people who you know, I
have some sort of like brotherhood or camaraderie with, and
I asked for that. And then you know, my buddy
uh Enzo, who I had known like here and there
out in public. Literally texted me that day and was like,
(27:47):
do you want to come camping with me and some guys?
And I was like camping, that's like right in my eye.
And he was like, we're not going to Cochella. I
don't know if you are. I was like, I'm fucking
coming camping, dude, Like let's go to the desert and
like sleep on the on the ground, and it just
like it just happened, and now we're all buddies. And
since then, I just feel like some greater connection and
sense of purpose that I don't think I otherwise would
(28:09):
have gotten just from a career solely. You know, So
you have to, I don't know, you have to strike
a balance in life, and you know, there's more to
life than just work or just you know, whatever, whatever
the thing is for you.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, it's funny you say that, because I, you know,
I've interviewed I don't know, let's say, thousands and thousands
of people up to this point, and one of the
most common themes I see is and it's sad, as
the people who I've interviewed who sometimes have the most
success in the world and didn't give themselves any space
to be who they really are and not a character.
Are sometimes the loneliest and it's like wow, and it's hard, right,
(28:45):
easier so than done. You have a goal, you're working towards,
a very very very hard goal that's not attainable by
most of the population. It's you know, whatever that industry is.
There's various industries that can be said for So, yes,
you have to put in the work and put your
head down some and do what you need to do
to get there. But then it's realizing the point where
you need to say, Okay, I'm there or I'm in
(29:06):
the realm of what makes me happy, so let me
start filling other buckets of my life.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, man, yeah, yeah, I think you know, I don't know.
I mean I could talk about this for hours, honestly,
but like to be in such an achieving culture, you know,
we there is no end. Yeah, there is no cap
to success or money. Like you know, well, okay, you've
done the thing. How much more of the thing do
you need than before you're happy? And I think cultivating
(29:32):
like joy or happiness is like more worthwhile maybe than
like material wealth or whatever that is. You know.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, No, I feel the same way. I will never
and this is true. I will never say I have
a professional goal without also adding in a personal goal,
like I'll always side by side them. So even when
I think about, you know, the new year, not that
I'm big on resolutions, but or whatever, Like, whenever I'm
thinking of what I want to achieve next, I say,
this is it plus something for me? Like that doesn't
(30:06):
include my worth based on my job, which I think
is an important thing. So I guess off of that,
for you, what's a personal goal you have and what's
the professional goal you have?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Oh? Man, I'm not big on resolutions either, I guess
I don't know, you know. I just try to do
my best in as many areas of my life as
I can. I'm a big fan of the book The
Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. I'm sure you've read.
I'm sure a lot of people have. But one of
the agreements is always do your best right, don't take
anything personally, be impeccable with your word, and don't make
(30:41):
assumptions right. Those are the four agreements. So like, in
terms of personal or professional goals, I really just want
to like maintain a sense of integrity of character through
whatever those things are the goals are going to change.
It's almost like there should be less of an emphasis
on the thing itself and more on the how you
(31:02):
do those things. Obviously, I want to work, I want
to be in more movies. I want to stretch as
an artist. I want to release music, and like, you know,
I want to continue to draw, and like I want
a well balanced social life, and I want to see
my family and I want to have a family, and
I want to be a good man. You know, I
mean all of those things obviously, but like I think,
(31:23):
I think that's obvious.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, but how are you.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Going to do all those things? I think that's the kicker,
and that's where the focus should really be. Like put
you know, that's what we should pay more attention to.
Maybe I feel like you're.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Taking me to church today and I'm here for I'm
here for it.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Not that I have the answers or all of them,
but you know, I don't know. That's just where I'm
at right now.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah. No, it's a good reminder. It's well said, and
I think it's always important when people in your position
speak to things like that. And even earlier you mentioned
like dude should be able to be vulnerable and try
like all of that, Yes, like more of that. I'm
such an advocate for all of that. My God, I
could talk to you for four more hours, but I'm
not sure your team would appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
So I might cry too if you did that, so
it's probably good.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
What I will do is I'm going to wrap up
with a question I ask everybody at the end of
my conversation with them, and that question is based off
the title of the show. I've never said this before,
So is there something you can think of whatever that
means to you, that you have never said before.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
You know, I have given this some thought because I
figured the title of the show that you would be
asking that question, And you know, I did some digging
into my into my own spirit and psyche. And I
don't say hardly ever that I hate something or someone.
(32:44):
The phrase like I hate feels so counterproductive to what
we're here to do, which is grow, you know, And
if you're not If you're not growing, then you're, like
I said earlier, if you're not expanding, then you're contracting
artistically and even as humans or in our souls or
whatever however existentially you want to get. But It doesn't
really do any good to hate anything, you know, Even
(33:07):
the bad experiences in life are so informative and they
teach us how to be better in some way, you know.
So if you can replace that like hatred for empathy
or compassion or gratitude, that's what I've tried to do.
And I don't if you ever catch me saying I
hate something or someone that, I'd give everyone permission to,
(33:28):
you know, slap me on the wrist and say, I
remember you said something about that. But yeah, man, I
just I don't have any of that inside of me,
and I don't intend to bring it with me wherever
I go.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
And when you hear it, it's a very jarring phrase,
at least to me, it is. It's like, oh.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Wow, yeah, it hurts, and there's plenty of it in
the world, you know. Yeah, it's like you have to
make a conscious effort to not allow yourself to get
wrapped up and all the bullshit and in our own egos. Right,
but we're here for such a short time, and you know,
we have the opportunity to make other people's experiences easier
(34:05):
or harder, and I just want to contribute towards the
light in any way I can.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Could you be any cooler?
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I'm what
do I say to that? How do I end this conversation?
After that?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I forget your dude? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Five eight and a half.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Well, I got my pumps in today, yeah five nine?
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, we'll take five to nine, Gavin.
Thank you for hanging out, man, truly a pleasure. You
remind everyone one more time. Your movie how to watch
When All the Things It's.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Called It's What's Inside. It's on Netflix October fourth. Be
sure to stream the Ship out of It.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Stream the Ship out of It. Thank you, my man,
Thank you dude.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Such a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Thank you. I've never said this before. It is hosted
by me, Tommy Diderio. This podcast is executive produced by
Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio and by me Tommy, with editing
by Joshua Colaudney. I've never I ever said this before
is part of the Elvis Duran podcast network on iHeart Podcasts.
(35:05):
For more, rate review and subscribe to our show and
if you liked this episode, tell your friends. Until next time.
I'm Tommy Diderio.
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