IVF Mixup, Delta Payoff, Bobby Hull CTE, Columbine Survivor Dies, Teen Injects Himself with Butterfly Remains, and More!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Mother Knows Dad starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Everyone, welcome The Mother Knows Death. We have some great
stories for you today. We are going to be talking
about head trauma in sports, players getting offered money for
near death experiences, beating up someone with a dildo, and
deadly's social media challenges. And the craziest story that we
have today is a white woman who gave birth to

(00:41):
a black baby and the background on that is outrageous.
But Riewan, don't you get started with the celebrity news.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
All right, So let's start off with this new story
about Bobby Hole.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
So.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
He is a Hall of Fame NHL player. He had
played with the Chicago Blackhawks, the Winnipeg Jets, and the
former heart Hertford Whalers now is the Carolina Hurricanes. In
twenty twenty three, he died at age eighty four and
his family donated his brain to a brain bank at
Boston University to study. And now two years later they
have diagnosed him with CTE.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
So before I guess, the reason that he donated his
brain to a CTE center, obviously is because he was
having symptoms prior to his death and it seems that
before he retired or right after he retired, So he
had all of these amazing achievements while he was playing,
and then soon after he retired, his wife accused him

(01:34):
of domestic abuse. Then he assaulted a police officer, and
he was even saying that Adolph Hitler had some really
good ideas. So he sought medical treatment. His family was
really worried about him, and they can't diagnose CTE. So
CTE stands for a chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which most of

(01:55):
the time we're talking about that with football players, but
it most certainly applies to hockey players as well. And
what happens with ct is that it is due to
brain trauma. And it's not like if you get in
a car accident and you get a concussion. It's these
usually these careers where you have repetitive trauma to the head.

(02:19):
And they were saying at first that it was multiple concussions,
but now they're saying that just multiple blows to the
head in general, even if there's a non symptomatic concussion,
is being responsible for causing CTE. So you have all
these repetitive blows to the head, but then the symptoms
of it are not showing up for maybe even sometimes

(02:41):
ten years later. So he started acting really erratic. And
when you go to the doctor and you say, you know,
you have this history of blunt trauma to your head
multiple times because of your career. It's usually in sports,
but it could be in the military or something like that,
they will start doing tests on you. But there's really
no bio markers to tell for diagnostic criteria for CTE.

(03:04):
And the only way to definitively diagnose CTE is at
death by looking at the brain at autopsy, because clearly
you can't look under the microscope at large portions of
people's brains while they're still alive. So the thing is
is that some of the presentation and the symptoms are
similar to other neurogenre diseases like Alzheimer's or als, So

(03:27):
they could say that they suspect it, but they really
don't know until the person dies. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
What I thought was really interesting about this story is
they were saying one of his Blackhawks teammates, Stan Mikita,
he had also been diagnosed with ct and that guy
had been part of this study of nineteen dead NHL players,
eighteen of whom were diagnosed with CTE after they died.
I think it's really important to note that helmets were
not mandatory until nineteen seventy nine in the NHL, and

(03:55):
Bobby Hall played from nineteen fifty seven to nineteen eighty,
so he basically had one year of playing with a
helmet on. I mean, part of the game is checking
other grown men's bodies into a wall. A lot of
the time you're falling down, you're skating around on ice.
And while they do wear helmets now, I mean, they
certainly get concussions still that they're playing. And I was

(04:16):
gonna say, like, really, how much do the helmets do
I don't know. I mean, it's definitely better than no helmet,
but we see this, how long have football player's been
playing with helmets.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
They're still getting them too, So it's it's just the repetitive.
Like I said, now they're even saying it's not even
a concussion level. If you have some kind of a
brain injury, that's that's scary because you can't even really
count how many times that this is happening. And they
think that when you have this this brain trauma, that
it's causing this cascade of events that results in nerd

(04:48):
of general changes over time. So it's the scary thing
is is that even if you have a high school
or player or a college player, you wouldn't even know
that the damage was happening until years later.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, I just think it's kind of nuts with everything
we know about it today. And I think the NHL
has been pretty good about their concussion protocol and making
like checks to the head illegal and everything like that.
But Gary Bettman, who's the NHL commissioner, has faced a
lot of criticism because he refuses to acknowledge a link
between CT and playing professional hockey. I think the NFL

(05:25):
is facing similar criticisms, and there's even been rumors flying
around that they're like convincing former players to go on
television and talk shit about how that's a ridiculous concept.
When we're seeing all these people get diagnosed with it after.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
They die, well, there has to be a little bit
more to it, because clearly it's not happening to every
single person that has had repetitive head trauma. It's only
happening to some people. It's not happening to every player.
Although obviously we're not looking at every play brain under

(06:00):
the microscope as well when they die. But I think
that it's just like the cigarette smoking thing. Some people
could smoke cigarettes their entire life and never get cancer,
really have no pathology from it, and other people have
terrible pathology from it. I think it's probably a similar
type of a thing, but it's definitely especially now, even

(06:23):
if you get children that are starting to involve in
these contact sports like this, it should just always be
the first thing on a person's mind that this is
definitely a possibility. And these people, I mean, this guy
was a little bit older when he started having all
of the symptoms really and he didn't die until he
was almost ninety years old. But look at Aaron Hernandez,

(06:43):
and it causes people's personalities to change. What's really interesting
is when you look at a brain of someone with
CTA at autopsy, it's shrunken down, but specifically the frontal
lobe is shrunken down, and that is responsible for your personality,
your self awareness, decision making and things like that. So

(07:08):
this would go along with maybe why he suddenly started
abusing someone or started saying really outrageous things, and with
Aaron Hernandez, for example, homicide, suicide, things like that are
common in people that suffer from this.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, I mean we saw with Aaron Hernandez, we saw
it with Chris ben Wave the WWE. I think there's
certain athletes I see doing commentary, especially in the last
couple of weeks, that when they're talking on screen, I
just look at their face and how they're talking, and
I'm like, Wow, that guy is just like not home,
even though he's on television doing commentary. But I am

(07:48):
concerned for them, and I think the bigger picture and
the criticism behind it is, you know, this is a possibility,
and even though you can't necessarily prevent it, why are
you guys not at least educated the players about it?
So I think that's interesting. I wonder just how the
future is going to be with more of this stuff
coming out.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Okay, freak accidents.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
So we talked about this Toronto plane crash on the
last episode, and now Delta is trying to pay everybody
that was on the flight thirty thousand dollars, which I'm
going to just quite frankly say, I don't think is
enough money for something like that.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
I think that if if something like that, when did
this happen on Saturday? Monday? Monday Monday afternoon. Okay, it
just happened on Monday, and as of last night, which
was Wednesday, they're offering thirty thousand dollars to some what
was it eighty people or something were on the flight, yes,

(08:49):
or around that. Okay, you have to think that that's
a serious red flag that they're offering that much money
within three days. Like I think about this on Monday,
if you were in an accident like that, I feel
like you're almost in the stage where you're still like
wrapped up in a blanket, curled on the corner of
your couch and crying with your family members. Still the

(09:10):
last thing you're thinking about is financial compensation. At this point,
you're you're like in shock if you're not in the hospital. Still,
it's just really it's so slimy, right sore.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
The Delta Care team representatives are saying that quote there's
no strings attached and does not affect right. So I'm
wondering if that means that they still have a right
to sue, because I'm thinking, most of the time, when
families get settlements like this, you're getting a fat check
in exchange for you will not sue us, right, So
I don't know if this is just like a we
know we fucked up, here's some money, but you still

(09:47):
have a right to sue us. But I don't also
understand why they would even do that. I it is weird.
I do think it's very quick to determine that who
came up with that monetary value, I don't know, and.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
It's it is. I mean, for a company like Delta,
it's probably nothing, but thirty thousand dollars times however many
people were on the plane eighty plus people is a
couple million dollars. I mean, it's it's just it's a
lot of money to just offer really fast, and it
almost seems like they're they're saying that they made a mistake.

(10:26):
I mean, obviously the plane crashed, and when a plane crashes, though,
there's all different things that could happen, one of which
is just the plane is broke, the landing gear didn't
go down, or something like that, and that's not really
anybody's fault. It might be if there's a problem with
the parts or whatever. But it almost seems like they're
they're trying to pacify people really fast. And I've seen

(10:49):
a lot on the news of pilots that are looking
at this video and they're they're not acting like there
was a problem with the landing gear. It was more
a problem with the people that were flying the plane,
according to the interviews that I've seen and just videos
I've seen online as well. So I mean, and another
thing is too, is that I guess the fire chief

(11:10):
you had said this last week or on Monday or Tuesday,
whenever we recorded that, the fire chief had said that
the ground was dry and there was no wind conditions
or something, And we're looking at the video like it
looks like a freaking blizzard and there's a couple inches
of snow and ice on the ground. So there was
later went back and said, I don't know. He said
he was mistaken, but it's all weird, right. There was a.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Giant blizzard in Canada over the weekend, so like, what
are you talking about? And like hours after this plane crashed,
as they're still investigating it, the plane gets covered in
snow because it's still actively snowing.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, and they canceled a bunch of flights that day too,
So I don't know. I just think it's very quick.
There's how what kind of investigation has been done over
the course of three days that you're already ready to
be like that. Whereas, let's think about the plane crash
that happened in DC a few weeks ago. Have you

(12:07):
heard of any of those people getting offered money like
their families anyway, because they're certainly not alive. I mean,
I didn't hear anything like that. The two big differences
between these cases are nobody died in this Toronto thing,
but a lot of people, not a lot. Everybody died
in the other one. So I think that's just going
to take some more time legally to figure out. But

(12:29):
with that said, even though nobody died and only one
person remains in the hospital with injuries, it does not
mean you are not going to have some form of
PTSD the rest of your life. Personally, I feel like I.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Right now I'm internally struggling with can I ever get
on a plane again? But I feel like I could
get over that because I'd like to go to Europe
again in my lifetime and go see other countries and
everything like that, and I just I don't have time
to take the Mayflower across the ocean. But then again,
it's like, if you're in an accident like this, how
could you ever comfortably get on a plane again, especially

(13:03):
with all these aviation accidents in the news, And I'm
thinking they maybe came up with this, like we're gonna
be really quick about it because there is just a
magnifying glass on aviation right now and we need to
just look like the best we possibly.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, didn't Delta are No, that wasn't That was Alaska, right,
they have adults were flying off Delta. I feel like
Delta had something, though I don't remember what it was.
I don't know if the tip of my head was
something like the near miss or the clip of the
wing or something. I don't know. There's just it just
seems like, okay, you're you're trying to cover something and

(13:39):
just a piece people really fast. I don't know, it's
just really quick. I'm probably jinxing this.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
But I've been seeing a lot of memes this week
too that are like, you know what, planes are never
in the news. And it was like spirit in Frontier because.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Everyone you know why, I think that is because and
I could be totally wrong, so you guys could correct me.
But I feel like back in the day, when I
was younger, there was one called Jet Blue or something
and that one crashed and it was and that was
Jet Blue still exists. Okay, so but that's like a
budget one of those budget ones, right, No, it's.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Not no special one. Pretty sure is pretty expensive. No,
there's American Airlines South Southwest, Frontier and Spirit are considered
like the lower tier airliners, and then I think American, Delta, United,
and Jet Blue are all on the same line. Okay,

(14:37):
but anyway, what happened with this.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
So well, it's not I think that it was that
there was a crash of one of these budget airliners
and then some people are just always afraid to take
those types of planes because that had happened years ago. No,
but I would argue that in my knowledge of aviation accidents,
I mean there's aviation accidents since planes have been invented,

(15:03):
but I always feel like they have been the bigger names.
So yeah, here it is, No, not Jet Blue, Value
Jet Yeah, I'm like, what are you talking about? I
don't fucking know. Anyway, Yeah, it says it crashed in
the Florida Evergly it's killing one hundred and ten people
on board. This was in nineteen ninety six, so like

(15:24):
for my for my age time, period I was a teenager,
and it was just that's the feeling that a lot
of people that I know had around that time was
just don't take one of those those budget flights because
of that. And I know people take them all the time,
but I always had that in the back of my
mind that there was a crash because and I don't
really remember what the reason was or whatever, but you know,

(15:46):
everybody used to. I used to take the megabus to
my internship every day that summer, and I never had
a single problem. And I feel the same way about Frontier,
like I fust has come. I have genuinely never had
a problem on Frontier. So yeah, it's the whole thing
is is that it's just probably they just caught cut
a lot of the bullshit and it's just cheaper. It's

(16:08):
probably the same exact thing. I don't I don't really know.
I always fly the same airline because knock on what,
I've never had a problem, So I'm just kind of
like I and I mean problem like not died. I
mean like when I go, my flights aren't ever delayed
a long time, and I'm not sleeping in the airport
for ten hours with my family it's just it's always

(16:30):
been a pretty chill experience. So I just kind of
go with that. But no judgment if people want to
use Jet Blue or whatever nice airline. I don't even
think values yet exist. It probably when that happened, exactly, Okay.
So we don't have any more stories than freak accidents

(16:52):
except that one, which is a huge one. Okay, true crime, Okay.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
In nineteen ninety nine, one of the most horrific mass
shootings we know, that Columbine High School shooting happened two
For those of you who are unfamiliar, which I can't
imagine anybody is, but for those of you who are unfamiliar,
it was two seniors at the high school named Eric
and Dylan. They went to their school, they killed twelve students,
one teacher ended up killing themselves, and then they injured

(17:17):
twenty one additional students. So one of the students that
was injured was this woman, Anne Marie Hotch Halter. So
she was seventeen when the shooting happened. She was eating
lunch in the cafeteria at the time. She was shot
in her back with the pistol and then it left
her paralyzed. Six months later, her mother killed herself. I mean,
this girl's life just seems horrible. No, let's talk about how.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Her mother killed herself, because it is so I do
feel terrible. But after reading this, it said six months
after this shooting, now her daughter is paralyzed because her
daughter survived a school shooting, which at the time, because
I was like, well twenty years old at this time. This,
even there were school shootings before Columbine, Columbine was the

(18:03):
first one that every single person was like, holy shit,
this is this is so scary, this is a thing.
This has never really happened like this. You can't believe it.
It just was really life changing when it happened, you know.
It's one of those things that you're like, I remember
where I was when I found out about that, and
I can't believe it. So her daughter survives this and

(18:24):
is paralyzed and is in a wheelchair, and six months later,
the mom goes to a pawnshop and asks if she
could see the gun, and she takes a gun and
shoots herself and kills herself. I mean, how fucked up
is that that that daughter had to go through that,
But she lives. She's got this spinal cord injury. She's
in a wheelchair for life, but she was able to

(18:44):
live on her own in an assisted home. It was
a home that was kind of set up for her
to live in with a wheelchair. And she said she
constantly had pain in her back, intensive nerve pain, spinal
cord injury, and everything that comes along with being paralyzed.
And now she's forty four years old, and the principal

(19:06):
of the school had said that she died from natural causes.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
But I would disagree with that, Yeah, because even so
I guess her. I guess there's criticism of saying she
died from natural causes because the thought right now is
that she died connected from issues stemming from her injuries
from the shooting.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
So that is not she causes. Yes, she didn't like.
And the thing is is if those two, let's say,
for example, one of those two were still alive, they
would now get charged with homicide if she died like today,
even though they could have already been charged for her injury,
at some point, it will now be upgraded to a

(19:47):
homicide charge. And they don't care how long in between
the injury and the person dying. If you could prove
that she died, which she's forty four years old, so
I mean not that forty four year old people can't die.
But if they could prove it was related to her paralysis,
which it more than likely was, then it's a homicide.

(20:08):
It is not natural causes.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, I did think that was interesting that they were
quick to categorize it as that. Well, I don't know,
for regular people, they don't really understand. I mean, she
had she had disease and died from the disease. She
didn't no one shot her or she didn't shoot herself.
That's I guess that's what they're I mean, acutely like

(20:31):
right now, I guess that's what they're saying. But you
don't have a medical examiner saying this that. I mean,
on her death certificate it should say her manner of
death is homicide. I think in a lot of these
stories we talked about, like let's just jump back to
the plane while we're talking about for example, technically nobody
has died right now, and people were in the hospital,
but at one point she was just in the hospital
and was released as well. It doesn't mean it doesn't

(20:52):
affect the rest of people's lives because they don't die
from it, and I don't think a lot of people
are not king of the long term effects of I
can't imagine being in a seatbelt in an airplane and
then all of a sudden being turned upside down that
you have to now cut or take your seatbelt off
and fall to get out of it.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
That you would fall properly and not injure yourself. Hopefully
you wouldn't hit your head and do something to your neck.
But sometimes if you get in a car accident, you
could have lifelong neck problems. Even it's just they're gonna be,
they're gonna have it doesn't even matter because we're not
ever taking into consideration emotional trauma as well.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
So well, was even just watching an old episode of
New York Housewives the other day, and one of the
housewives at that time had like a childhood injury and
she didn't have a leg, and so she worked often
with charities with amputees, and she was in the episode
working with a woman who had lost one of her
limbs in the Boston marathon bombing. And we're not thinking

(21:53):
of those victims, like there are, of course victims that
have died and lost their life, but there are people
that have life altering injuries from these attacks, and it's
just really sad to think about.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah it is.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Do you remember so like I was only four when
this happened, so like when it happened, what was going
on in the news, Like it was scary because there
wasn't social media.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
At this time.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
So in my day and age when things like this happened,
I remember it.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
I remember. The biggest talking point was that because I
guess just as a person that you know, everybody goes
to high school. I went to a bigger high school
at some point, you know, after I got kicked out
for the Catholic school for being pregnant, so I went
to my town's high school, which was bigger, but you

(22:38):
sit there and I was already out of high school
for a couple of years at that point, but you
just think, you try to put yourself back there and
you're like, why would why would these two kids get
together and do this? You just couldn't imagine. And all
of this stuff came out that they were getting teased
and that's why they did. But there was like a
lot like I really never It's it's kind of weird

(23:01):
with my website and stuff that I never really dug
deep into Columbine. It was almost kind of one of
those like nine to eleven type events, like a traumatizing
news event that you'll remember.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
And now kids in school right now too, So it's
like hard to dissociate from.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, but but now it's now it's like I can't
I can't even remember them because there's so many of them.
It's I mean, it's so it's so depressing. But with
that case, there was a lot of there was just
a lot of like negligence on the parents' part. I
remember that, and and then these kids were getting teased,
and that was the biggest thing because I remember reiterating

(23:39):
that to you when you were in school, like don't
tease kids, don't get involved with that. And I'm still
like that today, just like you kind of stay out
of it and just don't get involved with that. And
it's because people like that. That's the incident that make
me think that people flip a switch like that. And
but now we know there's just like so much all

(24:00):
their shit to the story. But yeah, it was it
was upsetting, of course.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, all right, Well this next case is in Florida.
Police got this call for a domestic dispute between a
husband and wife. According to the husband, his wife began
drinking and confronted him about who he follows on Instagram.
I just want to say a side note, These people
are in their fifties. So she starts getting in his face,
and he had threatened to call the cops, and then
she thought that was the best time to take out

(24:27):
a dildo and start beating him with it.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
It's kind of funny, listen, Like, domestic abuse is never funny,
but like, come on, if you're gonna beat your husband,
you should use a dildo.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
It's just like, what's going on in this household? Like,
you guys are an absolute miss Why why aren't we
fighting as fifty year olds? Who's following who on Instagram?
This is like a high school level fight.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
I know, I'm I don't think I ever once even
looked at who Gabe follows on Instagram? Like who cares?
Me too? Because who cares?

Speaker 2 (24:58):
And like it's like the old saying, like if you're gonna,
if you're gonna look, you're always gonna find something you
don't like. It doesn't even matter if the person's not
doing something bad.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
So I'm not I'm definitely not like a snooper like
that for sure, but I mean people are though. I
know people that I know, people that have the passwords
to their husband's things and like check their messages and
shit and check their phones and well, listen, I don't
pass back to all my husband's things.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
I've never once felt a desire to log into his
email and see what he like, what his emails.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
But there's people that openly check each other's stuff, and
it's weird. It's weird. But I mean if people feel
comfortable with that, then that's fine. I don't know, I
think it's weird. So it's not weird to beat someone
with a sex.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Boy, well, I mean you shouldn't be hitting anybody, but
like that, it's a little bit of a comical element
to the.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Story, so like you can't really ignore that. So so
the cops showed up and wait, wait, yeah, So the
cops get there and the man warned them that his
wife was naked and they were in risk of being
flashed by her inside of the house, and they were like,
is that a bad thing? I don't know, we have
to see her. I guess right, I don't, I mean,

(26:18):
think about what the wife looks like it could be
a really bad thing or really horrible thing, but just
it's just funny. Like the cops. The cops just see
they just encounter the craziest shit. Just like you're sitting
you're sitting at the police station and just like eating
or whatever, and you get this call that someone's beating
someone with a dildo, and then you show up and
the husband's just like, hey, my wife is gonna flash you.

(26:40):
I'm warning. Just imagine, like that's like a weird night
of work, right.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Well, and also it's not like they just left it alone.
She got arrested for domestic battery. This is another problem
I have. She had a thousand dollars, she posted a
thousand dollars bond and was released. Why if you really
thought she was an aggressor is it just so easy
and cheap to get out?

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Well it is forever. I mean, I know somebody that
actually got arrested for a domestic situation and didn't even
didn't even have to pay bond at all. You know what,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
You know, it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
There's another case here, which is actually the next one
that we're going to talk to, which are like what
is happening with the arrest situation in that case? Yeah,
totally all right.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
So last summer in Michigan, police got a call that
this elderly couple was squatting in a cabin. While talking
to them, police discovered they were homeless and noticed extensive
bruising on the wife, so she was taken to the hospital.
She had disclosed the history of abuse and ended up
dying a few days later, and then her husband just
could not let it in there.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
Okay, So before we even talk about what happened next,
if police show up to a place and find that
a man is beating a woman, why wasn't he taken
into custody at that time? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
I think it's very bizarre.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Okay. So anyway, he's seventy four, so he's older, and
he shows up to the hospital and is impersonating a
police officer and wants to go in the hospital and
said that he wants to see the woman's body in
the morgue, And clearly any person with the brain working

(28:32):
at the hospital was just like, yeah, okay, you're a
police officer. We're not letting you in obviously. So they
were able to eventually arrest. They put a warn out
for his arrest and they were able to arrest him later,
but they still let him out with bail. Right. Yeah,
he was charged with me. He was charged with impersonating

(28:55):
a police officer and domestic abuse and domestic abuse. He
was trying to go look at the body of the woman.
I don't know what that was about. He probably was,
I mean, the last time he saw her she went
to the hospital and then they said she was dead.
Maybe he just wanted to confirm she was really dead.

(29:15):
Maybe he wasn't trying to do anything bad. I mean, my.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Confusion all this is my understanding is she died as
a result of her injuries from being abused by him,
So why is he not charagure with murder.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
That's what I was, That's what I was wondering. I'm like, what,
the story's just missing major elements. She was sixty eight, so,
I mean, she could have She could have just so
when they took her to the hospital, they said she
had extensive bruising, but they also said she had difficulty breathing,

(29:50):
So she might have died as a result of whatever
was causing her difficulty in breathing. That might have just
been you know, she have been having heart failure or
something right or anything, pneumonia whatever. They were homeless, so
she probably wasn't seeking medical treatment. So in that case,

(30:11):
I could say that, Okay, she did technically die of
natural causes, but she admitted that she was being beaten
had these extensive bruises, so that's why she's he was
only getting charged with domestic abuse as opposed to murder.
I just don't really They didn't really say why he
was trying to go sneak into the morgue.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
But I just think whenever these cases we cover have
these weird you know, it's not like this is the
first domestic dispute case we've covered or whatever, but whenever
they have these weird added tidbits to it, like he
tried to impersonate being a state trooper. They're leaving out
major details about the rest of.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
The case, and you're like, oh, and I want to know.
And I want to know too, because I'm just thinking,
as a person that works in the hospital, that was
a person that you would have went to me to
get asked to go into the morgue? How is this person?
Is this person in a police officer out uniform, because

(31:07):
where would he have gotten that? When is a police
officer seventy four years old? Anyway, they usually don't don't
stay cops until they're older age like that.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
Let's just say we were at Let's you say you
were the person working and a and a cop came
up to you.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
What purpose do they have being there? I wouldn't. I
wouldn't do that. I would just go, you're gonna have
to go to security or so. I wouldn't deal with that.
I mean, the only time that I don't, I don't
even know that that's ever happened. The only time that
I ever let anybody into the more refrigerator was when
it was either the medical examiner or the funeral home

(31:42):
to pick the body up. I just like nobody should
be out. No, no, no, And you would never let
a family in there for sure. And yeah, like there
would just never be a reason for that. Like I
would say, Okay, well you could if it was a
police incident, then I'd say, Okay, you're gonna have to
deal with the medical examiner's office. That's not my business.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
You need to watch that thing I told you about
last week called the Kings of Tupelo because this janitor
that's also an elvis impersonator, he's working at the hospital
and he goes in the morgue to clean and then
claims he sees his severed head in the hospital morgue,
and then he starts bringing other employees into the morgue
to see like these body parts in there, which I'm saying,

(32:26):
Di Rocky, that doesn't sound right if they're at a hospital, right.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
No, it listen. If they're in an academic facility that
also does research, it could have been like when I
went to school, I was at an academic hospital and
then next to that was the gross anatomy labs which
were which were in the university right next door. Though
that you might have seen different body parts cut off

(32:53):
that you normally wouldn't see in the hospital morgue for dissection,
and they do, I mean, they're are dis sections anatomy
dissections where they do heads. So it's possible, but that
wouldn't be something that would be done. That would be
more of a like donate your body to science. And

(33:13):
you know, like let's say you're teaching pedietary students. They
don't need a whole entire cadaver. They only need lower
legs and feet. So sometimes you kind of take the
parts to where they need to go for to get
have researcher for medical purposes or whatever. But there's is

(33:34):
what hospital. Is this a real story?

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yes, it was in Mississippi. You need to watch it
because he ends up getting into this world. It's like
they're early two thousands. He ends up getting into this
world of conspiracy theories and people selling body parts, but
ends up being true in some capacity, and then he
gets arrested for allegedly mailing ricin to Obama. So you
just you need to watch this. It's truly the craziest thing.

(33:59):
It's three episodes, it's only three hours. Gabe, I think
will thoroughly enjoy it as well. But it's just you
can not believe these people getting interviewed.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
I do. I want to look into that because I
want to see, like exactly exactly what was taking place there,
because it's it is possible. I'm just saying I haven't.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
When you watched the whole thing, you're just like, this
thing is ridiculous. Uh, well, I was gonna say earlier.
I was. I I started watching the new Gabby Potito
thing on Netflix last night and they have a lot
of the body cam footage, which I've seen clips of
here and there, but they showed pretty much all of it,
and I just thought it was really interesting because when
they had first pulled them over after hearing that he

(34:41):
had been slapping her in the street, Brian and Gabby
both admitted that Gabby was the aggressor, but she also
had bruises on her face and her arms, and I'm
just curious why they didn't question him more about it.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
And then, well, I think that that was the one
in Molab. Yeah, Okay, I'm pretty sure that everyone agrees
that that was That was a crucial error that they
let her go, because if they would have taken her
in at that time and recognized the signs of abuse
and the ship she was saying, then that that was
a critical error.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Well, they interviewed them both on the side of a
busy highway and then they basically told her you could
take the van, and they put him in a hotel room.
They said, don't talk to each other tonight, and then
they ended up beating up a couple hours later.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, I mean, they had an abusive relationship, and it's
the cycle of abuse. It's terrible. But yeah, I mean
that when you watch the video, and especially any person
that's ever been through that is just like, oh my god,
this is terrible, Like you could see exactly what's happening.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
No, exactly, it's I just wonder. I mean, I I
would assume they look back at them now now that
oh they do.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
They're under criticism for that for sure.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
I just feel in some capacity I feel bad though,
because they show them the officers talking amongst one another,
and they're like, they're so young, like we don't want
to like arrest them and have this be this whole
thing if they really did just get in the fight.
So I just think it's really difficult to tell. But
I did think that was abnormal because in some states,

(36:11):
if there's a domestic dispute call, somebody has to get
taken in for questioning or arrested in general. So I
just thought it was interesting. Their whole time they're explaining
they don't think she's a legitimate threat to him because
she's like one hundred and ten pounds and five foot tall,
right or what however tall she was, she was way
smaller than him, So I just thought it was really
interesting to see it all play out and the conversation

(36:33):
the officers were having as well, instead of just the
highlights of the point.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
I mean, that was terrible to see that and that
mistake with the police and everything. But the worst part
of that case is his fucking parents.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Oh well, I just started getting to the part in
the I'm only like halfway through.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
I just started to get like, serio, I just I
can't wrap my brain around how those people are not
in prison right now. They're just the most disgusting humans
that ever lived.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Like, well, I didn't know, I didn't really realize as
soon as the police went to the house to just
ask them if they heard from Brian, their son, They're like, yeah,
he's here, and we have an attorney and we're not
talking to you. It's not even like they necessarily knew.
The police had not been there prior to talk to them.

(37:18):
They had an attorney before the cops even got there.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
And it is because they knew.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
I know, they knew.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
It's just crazy. It's just so fucked up. It's fucked
up on a humanity level of a like a morality level.
Respect for even if you hated that girl and everything,
like just respect from one parent to another, it's so
fucked up, it.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Is, and to not answer her family and say yeah anything.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, I mean go get there this one day. Yeah,
you know that always happens.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
But all right, So a few weeks ago we had
talked about this woman who had been arrested for allegedly
poisoning her family's Christmas cake, which resulted in the death
of three people. She also was accused of killing her
husband a few months before that, and he had been exhumed,
and now she's been found dead in her jail sill.
All right, so this is this is actually kind of great.

(38:12):
So when we said that back at Christmas time, they
were exhuming the ex husband's body to see if he
had been poisoned with arsenic. Since then, they have determined
that he has been poisoned with arsenic the ex husband
and then, yes or two days ago, the husband her

(38:33):
news her current husband told her that he wanted a divorce,
and then she killed herself. I got so confused about
this because I'm like, I was under the assumption they
were married at the time the old husband died, So
I was like, how did I was just confused about
all of it, Like I thought that the older husband.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Funny to me that this woman is in prison for
killing what was it three people?

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Well four three people with the cake and then the
form yes.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
But three people that he knew of, that her husband
knew of, and they were still together. And then when
he found out that she had killed her ex husband,
he was like, Okay, this is the final straw. Now
I am I am officially filing for divorce.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
It is ridiculous because the three people died, she got
arrested pretty quick, and the others that ate the cake
got really sick. So it's not like it was a
grand mystery and it was all arsenic.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Arsenic I don't.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Believe just accidentally ends up in a cake.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
So oh no, And they said, oh, it was two thousand,
seven hundred times the legal limit. I guess you're allowed
to have. I wouldn't say legal limit is the correct word.
But it was arsenic naturally in Yeah, it's a natural
element in the environment, so sometimes you could find it

(39:55):
in people's blood that didn't really know they were even
having an exposure to it. No one was intentionally trying
to poison them, but there's level It's the same with
like lead and everything like that. You're you're not supposed
to have it. It's toxic, but there's sometimes you're exposed
to some things once in a while, but there's there's
certain levels in your body that are considered to be

(40:19):
a safe, safer exposure in small amounts. And that's why
they're saying, Okay, there's no way that this was accidental.
It was twenty seven hundred times. And also they found
that she was purchasing it multiple times. It's just and
that didn't tip the husband off. Then you know what's
nuts if she just killed the ex husband. This is

(40:40):
what makes you think about people all the time, Like
if she just killed the ex husband with the arsenic
and just stopped, no one would ever know that she
killed him.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Well, it's the same as when people are stealing from stores.
When you get greedy, it's when you get caught.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
This episode is brought to you by the Grossroom.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Guys. I think next week we are definitely tackling what
everyone wants to know, and that is beastiality. Unfortunately, while
we started doing research for this post that we're going
to be doing in the Gross Room yesterday, Maria started
googling things and really bad things. Started coming up on
our Google search. So I'm like, yeah, dude, like, I

(41:32):
don't know, and we're gonna tackle this in the post,
like what's legal, what's not, because we know it's legal
in some states. But it's really scary that some of
these images could just pop up that easily with one
term put in the Google search. So okay, well, I
didn't see any images. I googled the word to see
how to spell it to start the draft post, and

(41:53):
then the second So the first link was like Wikipedia,
and the second link was a porn link to watch it,
which I don't really want to see. So I just
could not believe it came up that easily.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Really, it's really not saying it's good that you didn't
click on the images, because I've done that before by accident,
and I'm like, fuck, just add this to my crazy
Google searches, right, But so yeah, we're gonna tackle that
this week, of course, and less anything crazier than that,
which seems impossible, but you never know. If some celebrity
dies or something, usually will jump on that. But yeah,

(42:28):
we have a lot of good stuff coming up in
the gross room, so check it out.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah, head over to the grosser room dot com for
more info into sign up. Okay, let's get into medical news.
So in Brazil, this fourteen year old boy started throwing
up and developed a limp in his leg. At first,
he told his dad he got injured while playing, and
then as he started getting sicker throughout the day, he
finally admitted that he mixed a dead butterfly in water

(42:51):
and then injected the liquid from that mixture into his leg.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
This so one of the grocery members actually sent us
this case, Yester, because I hadn't heard of it, and
they're thinking that he carried it out as part of
an online social media challenge, which of course I'm not
sure if he mixed it with water, because there are
some talks that he may have mixed it with a chemical.
And they're not exactly sure why he died, so there's

(43:20):
a variety of different reasons that could have caused him
to die. He could have had some kind of allergic reaction.
They don't there's not much research on the toxicity of
humans for butterflies because people aren't typically injecting it into
their body like this, so it could be a toxic reaction,
allergic reaction. The large chunks being injected into a vein

(43:43):
could have caused some kind of an embolism of sorts.
So there's all different kinds of reasons that this kid
could have died. But what fucking social media challenge is this? Now?

Speaker 2 (43:55):
I just have many questions as a fourteen year old,
why are we injecting anything into our body at all?
Where is a fourteen year old getting a needle to
do it? Like?

Speaker 1 (44:05):
I have syringes at my house for Lucia's needles, and
parents their kids are diabetic whatever I mean, I have
a box and syringe in my drawer. It's just that
people got the money around their house. Yeah, I just
I have parents and stuff. Like the people use syringes
for medications, so they're easy. I think you could probably
just go buy them at CBS if you really wanted to.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
I just think we need to start educating children about it.
Like it to me, it's as simple as if all
your friends are gonna go jump off a bridge, are
you gonna go do it too? But I really think
with technology that philosophy is just totally out the window
and kids are just doing the dumbest shit. Why would
you ever inject something into your body, especially if it's

(44:52):
just kids.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Just listen. I was reading in this article that there
was this other challenge, which it seems like it was
an older person, so not a fourteen year old, maybe
an older teenager or young adult had done some kind
of a standing in an ice bucket challenge and stood
in ice water mixed with salt for fifteen minutes and

(45:13):
had to get their legs amputated or their feet amputated.
I'm like, what the fuck are people thinking? But the
thing is is that kids aren't thinking. And you could
use the bridge analysis, but it doesn't help because then
if it's not an actual bridge, then then they don't
understand that it's bad. You know, like if it's a
situation where children are standing at a bridge and the

(45:35):
kids are jumping over, I think at this point my
kids wouldn't do that, But then what's the next bridge?
Putting a water bottle up to your lips and doing
the Kaylie Jenner lip challenge like everybody else is doing it,
but then you do it and you have a giant
hickey on your face, you know, like they don't They
just don't know. Their brains don't have that capability to
know right from wrong as much, and especially teenagers are

(45:59):
known to not teenagers are a weird thing because they
have this super undeveloped brain, but they look bigger and
they're starting to look like adults. So you just assume
that that they're thinking the same way you are, and
they're just not even a little bit and they make
terrible decisions all the time, with trying drugs and this
and that and alcohol and driving. And I just think

(46:21):
back in my day, the internet challenges were like the
cinnamon challenge, the saltine challenge, the dal challenge is deadly too.
I don't know if anybody actually died from it, but
it's a terrible idea. It's a terrible idea.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
But like, all right, you're just I understand doing something
like that because I did it.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Obviously you did it too, So like I don't even
what he did. I did. It was fucking terrible. But
just like this is dumb. My point is it's cinnamon.
It's a spice.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
It's not like a needle and injecting something into your
body like use your brain. Oh, I don't know, all right,
So this sext wray is this thirty eight year old
one and went to the hospital with headaches and a
burning sensation in her feet. She said the symptoms came
on after she went on this vacation between Thailand and
Japan and Hawaii, and at first doctor sent her on

(47:11):
her way with anxiety medication, but of course the symptoms
started progressing and going throughout her body. So they did
some further testing and what did they see.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Oh, she had parasites all over her body. I don't
blame I don't blame the emergency room because if you
go in there and you're just this, you're saying, I
have a headache, and I have like the jitters, I
have like this shaky feeling in my legs and stuff.
I don't think that it's warranted to do a full

(47:42):
body MRI on a person because of that. That's just outrageous.
And in America, I mean maybe, I don't know if
she had said that she had just traveled to these
people at the emergency room, which would have been a
clue that maybe something was going on. But this isn't
a common occurrence in America, so it's not on the
top of American doctor's minds that something like this could happen.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Well, how did they get to the point then when
they're doing it, because she's continually pushing for it and complaining, Well,
she went to the She went to the hospital again
and I don't know what, but they gave her a
lumbar puncture, so they put a needle and take spinal
fluid out. And in order to do that, they had

(48:26):
to something had to trigger them to do that, because
they don't just do that on people.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
I don't know if she was having a lot of times,
if people have like a change in mental status or
some sort of certain blood work comes up and looks funny,
which I'm sure it did because she had such it was.
It was such an extreme parasitic infection. I'm sure some
of her markers were elevated. So they did this lumbar

(48:51):
puncture and discovered she had a roundworm infection called Angio's
strong eliasis and it is also now as a rat
lungworm who apes these things. I don't know, but it
causes inflammation surrounding the brain, spinal cord, and nerves. So

(49:11):
this makes sense why she was having this nerve sensation
in her legs as well as the headaches. And it's
really kind of gross. So a snail or slug eats
rap and that's how they get it, and then a
human becomes infected because they ingest the larva from eating
undercooked snail or slug or contaminated vegetables, especially leafy greens

(49:36):
that were touched by infected slugs, and then larva migrate
into the digestive track and then they move into the
muscle and brain. So when you look at the imaging
from this lady, it just looks like all of her
muscles have these like little lines in them, and all
of them are parasites.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
So I guess when they asked her about her trip
and what she was eating and everything, she was eating
a lot of raw sushi, So they're assuming that is
where it came from.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Yeah, And I guess that this particular parasitic infection is
most common in Hawaii, so that's where they thought think
she picked it up. I don't think that it's it's
like a huge thing that everybody in Hawaii is getting this,
but there's cases of it, so that's where they think
that she got it. And the cool thing about parasites
if you get them treated in time, because this could

(50:22):
actually kill you because it could inflame the membrane surrounding
the brain so bad that it could lead to seizure
US strokes. But the cool thing is is that they
gave her medication straw. They gave her medications anti parasitic
and also steroids, and within six days she was essentially
feeling a lot better and went home. And you just

(50:44):
need the right medication to kill it. It's almost the
same as having a like a bacterial infection or a
viral infection. You just need to be able to get
rid of it. And so they're easy to get rid
of most of the time. But imagine how this lady
feels now, Well.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
I can't imagine it. I would want to vomit everywhere
thinking that those things were like invading my entire body.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
But at least she took care of it and pushed
for treatment. And yeah, and like round worms, I've seen
them before. They look like they look like worms. They're
it's not like these microscopic things that you can't really see.
It's when you look at it, it looks they look
like a smaller maybe than an earthworm and not they

(51:26):
don't have the lines like an earthworm. They're very smooth
and usually white in color. But they look like they
look like worms. Yeah, and the thought of those moving
inside of your muscles and stuff is terrifying. Ye imagine
looking back and just being like, oh my god, ugh,
I can't imagine. No, Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Back in twenty ten, this guy in his fifties started
having concerning symptoms like headaches, distress, and slurred speech. He
went to the doctors, but they also blew it off
his stress, and at some point the doctor suggested he
was faking his symptoms. So eventually he got a seat
and doctors did in fact find a tumor on his brain.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
This is this is almost every single case in my
book right that that people were having these symptoms and
went to the doctor. I remember I had this one
under the adrenal chapter of this woman who was having
Addison's disease and she was going to the doctor. She
was losing so much weight and they were accusing her

(52:26):
of having an eating disorder, and here she had pathology
in her adrenal gland that was being ignored. And one
of one of our friends, actually her daughter started having
all of these crazy symptoms as a teenager, and she
kept bringing her to the doctor and bringing her and
they kept telling her that her daughter was anorexic and

(52:48):
all this stuff, and then it turns out that she
has silliac disease. So it's it's just I hear this
every single day of my life, between just real life
with your family and my followers, people in the cross
room saying that they're seriously blown off by doctors and
then they end up having something that's serious.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Now I find a hard time with this in particular,
because if you're complaining of any head stuff, why wouldn't
you just do a scan to rule it out. I mean,
when I went a couple of years ago for my migraines,
it was the first thing we talked about was getting
an MRI just to rule out any problems.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Well, I'm not sure. I mean, I don't believe that
this was in this country, Okay, so I don't know
what the protocol is. It is in the UK, yeah,
And I don't know what the protocol is there if
I mean they were saying the family was saying he
was having jumbled speech and severe headaches, And I feel

(53:47):
like here, if you went to the hospital, they would
definitely say okay, like we're gonna check to make sure
you're not having a stroke or something. Like that, but
for whatever reason, they're I'm not sure why they didn't
work it up. And honestly, in this case, like I
don't know if it really matters because he had the
brain tumor he had was called a glioblastomen they're they're

(54:10):
malignant and they're very deadly tumors, and even if they
found it a month or two earlier, it wasn't gonna
change anything. But that doesn't matter because there are lots
of times that people get blown off and they had
something that could have definitely been taken care of way
before it did get taken care of, and then it
and then it's advanced disease. At that point, I thought

(54:33):
this story was actually interesting because of the article that
you wrote last week about faking cancer, because people actually
do fake cancer, like a lot of people do. Well,
this is what I was gonna say.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
So last week, so a couple of weeks ago, we
had that story about the new Netflix show coming out
called Apple Cider Vinegar, which was about the girl Belle
Gibson that fake cancer.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Oh yeah, I listen, Like I know that you're not
an eighties kid or whatever, but when you say Bell Gibson,
I'm just like, is that really her fut name?

Speaker 2 (55:05):
They brought up the joke and the show too.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Is it really her name? Because isn't she? I think
her name's Anna.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Bell Gibson, but she goes by Yi she because.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
She's like kind of she's like out of her mind.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Right, Okay, so this I watched the show. I thought
the show was very good. I was prompted to write
an article last week about other people that fake cancer
because I notice every couple of years there's a trend
of true crime. It's like starts with murder, and then
a couple of years ago was all like financial crimes
or people that were love bombing people and stealing all

(55:39):
their money, which I know somebody in real life that
did that, by the way, and went to jail for it.
And now it's people that fake illnesses and steal money
from other people.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
So in my article, I first.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Wrote about Amanda Riley, who first was the I guess
she was the first example of this in true crime.
This podcast came out called Scamanda, and it went through
and broke down her whole scam. And then there was
the writer for Grey's Anatomy, Elizabeth Finch. She faked having cancer.
And then most notably is Belle Gibson, who robbed all

(56:16):
these people of their money. She was taking money, and
she said she was donating it, donating it to charities
and families that needed it for surgeries, but she was
just keeping it for herself. And furthermore, she was telling
all of her following that she had glioblastoma as well
and was told she was going to die and cured
herself with holistic healing, and so all these real cancer

(56:39):
patients were following her thinking they could cure themselves with
holistic killing as well, and then dying because of that.
I can't believe she's not in jail for the rest
of her life. But I don't know what the laws
are in Australia, so whatever.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Yeah, but I know someone peripherally that that faked cancer.
I just knew because listen, like, if you're ever gonna
fake cancer, you definitely can't ever tell it to a
person that is a pathology person, because we'll call bullshit
right off the bat. Something won't make sense exactly. Nurses
and doctors too. It's just and and then Laura told

(57:13):
me that we also know another person that faked cancer,
and I was like, oh, and that person's even more peripheral,
but I know who she was talking about, and it's
just like, just to think that there's two people that
I know through a friend or something that has fake
cancer is outrageous to me.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Well, it really is. And in most of these cases,
the people are picking rare cancers that people don't have
a lot of knowledge about, and also there's less of
a likelihood they will run into another person that has
the same exact cancer as than to call them out
on their bullshit. And I just find it really interesting
because it's like, with Belle Gibson in particular, I'm seeing

(57:53):
her as this person that utilized Instagram as soon as
it came out, She formed this brand, she got an
app on the App Store, she was one of the
first apps to be featured on the Apple Watch. She
gets this monster deal with Simon and Schuster to put
out her cookbook, and I'm like, if you were this brilliant,
why couldn't you have just started a legitimate brand?

Speaker 1 (58:12):
I now, right, because.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Yeah, And you're just like, how are you going to
believe anything? And then when people start questioning her cancer diagnosis,
then she starts saying her cancer that was allegedly cured
in her brain has now spread to her uterus and
all throughout her body. So all these people, that's when
she really started tumbling down when she said it spread.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
I guess my ramble here is that I wrote this
article talking about these three notable cases, and I asked
at the end of my article, of anybody in the
gross room new somebody that did this.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
And I cannot.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Believe the amount of people that know somebody that faked
cancer to this capacity.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
I know, it's just so crazy.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
There's a difference between being gross misdiagnosed and then finding
out you don't really have that, and then these people
that just totally fabricated out of thin air. They forge
and photoshop medical documents to try to back up their claims.
They in most of these cases, the women shave their
heads or put fake ports on their body. I know.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
That's what's crazy, because all of the pictures that used
in the gross room of these particular women, they all
have this weird like shaved haircut. It's just really bizarre.
It is really would just do that. I don't I
don't like that at all. It's just really it's but I'm.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Thinking this guy really does have gleoblastoma, and his doctor
suggested he's faking his symptoms. When these women were up
to this for years and nobody called them out on it,
It's it's a very weird behavioral trait. I just will
never understand it. All right, should we get into this
is probably the most fucked up one of the week,

(59:51):
is all right? So in Georgia, this woman in her
thirties decided she wanted to have a baby, and she
got pregnant through IVF using a sperm donor.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
She is white.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
She said the sperm donor she chose had similar features
to her, having lighter skin, blonde hair, and blue eyes.
Let me tell you, she was surprised when she delivered
this baby and it was black, because that's not what
she thought was happening.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
So when I heard this story, at first, I thought, okay, well,
maybe they gave her the wrong sperm, and that's what
she had initially thought. That's what I would have thought too.
That would have been my first thought of Okay, maybe
they gave me the wrong sperm, which is also fucked up.
I mean, there was a mix up, clearly, because especially

(01:00:36):
a person that's that light. The chance of them having
a darker skin baby is nonexistent with the recessive genes
like that. I don't know. I don't know what happened,
but she had this baby, she loved this baby, She
treated this baby for five whole months, and raise the

(01:00:58):
baby as her own. And I don't know why it
took so long to do all the DNA tests.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
I have the timeline, Okay, she had the baby in
December twenty twenty three, and then the following month, I guess,
after recovering, getting settled and everything, she did a DNA
test and then she knew right then and there that
she was not biologically related to this child.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
She just delivered.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
So the next month in February, she had retained a
lawyer at that point, and they alerted the IVF clinic
and said, there's been a mix up and this is
what happened. And they also found the real biological parents
of this embryo. I'm not sure how they quickly found
those people, but they became aware of it, and then
they did a DNA test and confirmed that they were

(01:01:42):
in fact connected to this baby. I guess maybe the
clinics suspected who it was, and then they had them
do a DNA test, so at that point that probably
took another month to confirm all of that, and then
those parents filed for custody of their embryo that was
their baby.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Yeah, which they should have. They should have.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
And what really, what really upsets me about this is
because this woman is saying this was supposed to be
the happiest day of her life, and to some capacity,
it was. And she did have this baby, and she
immediately bonded with the kid and loved this kid as
her own kid. But she knew, because it was not
the same ethnicity as her erases her, that there was

(01:02:25):
going to be an issue down the line, and at
first she did not know if that was going to
be a sperm mix up. I don't think she imagined
it was the worst case scenario, which is they put
another couple's baby inside of her.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Yeah. I don't think that she thought that either. And
it's so sad because she, I mean, she did this
as a single mom. She went out and did this,
and she wanted to be a mom, and then she
carried this entire pregnancy, gave birth to this baby, loved
this baby, and even took care of this baby when
there was doubt that it was hers, and then when

(01:02:55):
she even knew it wasn't hers, And I mean, this
is this is the crazy part of it. If she
never did the DNA test, she didn't have to do it.
She did it because she wanted to do it to
find out. But like she didn't even have to contact
the IVF clinic and say that that it was not
her baby.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Well yeah, because well do you think eventually though, the
clinic would have realized this embryo is missing and would
have figured out what happened.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Maybe what the fuck's going on there? I don't know
the look at this how I don't even understand how
you mix it up to begin with. I just don't
understand it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
I think this is such a horrible position to be
in from either end, because in one capacity, you want
to be like, well, she carried the child and gave
birth to the child, it should be her child, but
it's just not like it is legally not her kid.
And those people paid a fucking ton of money and
god knows why they were doing it. If they were

(01:03:53):
just you know a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
People, they're going to be reimbursed for all of that money.
That they spent. This is going to be a massive lawsuit.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
There's no way I.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Actually will because the fertility clinic put out a thing like, oh,
I'm sure this never happens again, like fuck you, you
should lose your license as a doctor, and that place
should close down. I don't care, Like this is just
malpractice and negligence, and I'm so tired of hearing this happen.
It's because I work in a lab and you're You're like,

(01:04:22):
it's it's very hard to mix up specimens if you're
doing the right thing all the time. It's just hard
to do. And how how many patients does one clinic
have that they can't keep them all separated properly. I
just I don't believe it. It's it's just sloppy cutting
corners bullshit. And that doctor really, who who would even

(01:04:44):
want to go to him ever after that?

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Who would want to go to him ever again? After that?
How is this woman gonna trust the system ever again?
I mean, like, she she doesn't have the child. The
child is in the custody of its biological parents now,
so she lost who she thought was her baby, and
that's traumatized.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
And the other parents lost the first five months of
the baby's life, yes, which is bonding, and it's just
it's just everything it's and maybe that mom wanted to
carry the baby. Well, it's just it's it's such a
mega lawsuit on both ends and terrible on both ends,
and it's it doesn't even matter the money, like you

(01:05:25):
just will never get back with that stole from these people.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Well that's what I'm saying, Like you could sue these
people for all the money in the world. It doesn't
make it better. Like you thought this was your child.
You delivered a child that wasn't yours, and legally you
do have to give the child up because it is
biologically not your kid.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
You know. I would go as far to say that
this happens a lot more than we think it happens,
because where we talked about a case, there was a
similar case. I don't know if it was even when
we were on Mother Knows Death or when we were
doing the podcast in the Grosser Room, but it was.
It was the same thing. And I believe it was
with white people and an Asian baby or the Asians

(01:06:02):
had a white baby or something like that, and it
was because of a mix up. We talked about this,
and you're like, it's obvious when it's somebody that's a
different race or skin color that it's obvious. It's not
so obvious if the kid could kind of pass for
your coloring and stuff like that. It's just, how are
we supposed to think that the only time this has

(01:06:23):
happened in the past couple of years is like, oh,
it just so happens that this white woman had a
black baby, and then this other Asian person had a
white child, Like it has to happen more than that.
You just you don't even know it. And I would
think that anybody that goes to these clinics that gets
accused of this and caught doing this, I would I
would be scared. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Well, there was that whole exposa a couple of years
ago of the fertility doctor that was mixing his own
sperm instead of the male partner sperm into these gate
where a sperm donor. He was just mixing his own sperm.
So we ended up having like over one hundred children.
And these women are thinking it's their husband or their
significant other baby.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
It's really scary when you put that much power into
someone's hands like that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Well, and This is what concerns me too, is right
now there's no federal requirement for these clinics to report
incidents like this, and that has to change. It has
to change because if what if a case like this
happens and they settle like under the radar, like this
one's in the news so you can google the facility
and it comes up as this lawsuit is happening, as

(01:07:30):
I'm sure with other cases too. But what if they
settle this and it remains under the radar. I would
like to know if this happened at a clinic I
was seeking out for this type of treatment.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
I can't believe it. They have to change that law.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
There is no way that counts stay in place because
IVF is becoming increasingly more common, So there's just no way.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
This makes me so sick.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
I feel so horrible for both families involved. And this
woman was basically forced to be a surrogate against her
will and now she has nothing at the end of it.
She's thinking she's going to have a child, and now,
how could you ever trust going through this process again?
Well she shouldn't, I mean no, but then she just
won't have a kid.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
I guess you could adopt and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
But it's just this is traumatizing on all behalfs. It
just really sucks. Okay, on the Questions of the Day.
Every Friday at the at Mother Knows Death Instagram account,
we put a story up on our Instagram page and
you guys could ask us whatever questions you want. How
has computer slash technology changed your job as a PA

(01:08:35):
for better.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
And for worse? So that's interesting. When I started working
in pathology, we had different ways up. So we do
dictation for all of our specimens. And what that is
is when we're looking at a specimen, we type up
like little reports on every single specimen we look at.
And when I first started, there were secretaries and some

(01:08:59):
hospitals still have it, which had like a transcriptionist. That
was the title that they were secretaries. And you would
do your dictation into a microphone and you were actually
talking to a person, so you could say, okay, write this,
put a period here, say this, say this, no, I
didn't mean to say that, take it out. And it

(01:09:20):
was It was really cool and I like the advantage
of it because having a transcriptionist is awesome because when
your hands are covered in blood, you really have a
hard time, like playing with the computer and everything like that.
So it's just you could focus on your work and
talk at the same time. The disadvantage of that was
there would be some times that you would do some

(01:09:41):
crazy dissection of a colon cancer case or something, and
then the transcriptionists would come up to you and say, oh,
I don't have that dictation, like it just gets lost
in the whatever. I don't know, and it would just
like make you want to cry. So I always kept
notes aside for every single case in case I had
to go back to redctate it or whatever. But so

(01:10:04):
we got this thing called dragon Speak. Is that still
a thing?

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
So we had this thing that was the improvement in technology.
It was called Dragon's Beak, and it was kind of
like voice to text or to text thing that you
do on your phone, except the one that you do
on your phone works great, and dragon Speak was just terrible.
All the time you had to train it. You had

(01:10:30):
to train it to your voice. It was, and then
like if someone else had to sit at your grossing station,
then they would in theory have to change the profile
in order for it to work for them. It just
was such a mess. And the computers are really old
and everything, So I think overall it's probably better for

(01:10:51):
labeling and things and all. But when there's a situation
at the hospital that the computers don't work, which I
feel like happens all the time because for some reason,
they just don't want to invest in Apple computers and
they have these shitty PC computers that just are terrible.
If the computer system's down, even say it's down for

(01:11:12):
like two hours, it's very hard to just work because
you're waiting for cassettes to print out, you're waiting for
labels to print out, you're waiting for the to be
able to do your dictation all this stuff. So I mean,
I personally like, I'm not a fan of technology, but

(01:11:32):
I don't know, I don't really know. I haven't been
working in the field long enough for there to be
too much of a transition in technology as far as
any of the places that I've ever worked at, Like,
nobody's using any crazy state of the art stuff. You
know what is interesting though, when I started going to
school to be a cytotech that was when we looked

(01:11:53):
at sales under the microscope to diagnose cancer. And even
back then, back in like the early two thousands, they
start introducing technology where they could stick the slide into
a computer and the computer could read the slide instead
of a human. And I believe that they're doing that
technology now like more and more. And I remember back

(01:12:14):
in early two thousands being scared, like, am I going
to need a job? Are is there going to be
a job for me when I'm fifty years old? Because
if they have this technology, are they really going to
need a human to be doing this? And they still
do obviously for other reasons. But the same kind of
transition happened in lab medicine in general. You know, when

(01:12:36):
you used to do your analysis and blood test and everything,
a lot of it was all manual stuff and mixing
lots of chemicals. And now it's just if you work
in chemistry, for example, in the lab, you just put
the vial on a machine and it does the test
for you. So it's it's pretty interesting, although it takes
a lot of the science out of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:12:57):
All Right, what's the biggest piece of advice you each
get a young person.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
For I'm especially for women. I always taught Maria this,
just make sure that you don't have to go to
college but just get whatever career you're going to get.
Make sure you have a career that if you get
fired from your current job and get another job, you're
gonna get paid the same amount. And just always make
sure you could take care of yourself. Don't meet a
boyfriend and then join your two shitty incomes in order

(01:13:29):
to buy a house and then not be able to
afford the house yourself. Like, you should be able to
afford your whole entire life without somebody, because being stuck
with someone because of financial reasons is really terrible and
that could have a significant impact on your life. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
I also to bounce off of that, I think it's
really important to have, you know, multiple skills. So let's
say you have let's say what you were just saying, like,
make sure you could get a job where you're being
paid the same, but like the market's not always the same,
so you need kind of something else in your back
pocket that you could do. Like I'm just like, if

(01:14:11):
God forbid this ever imploded and I couldn't do this
job anymore, I could at least bartend in the meantime
until I figured something else out to make a living,
Exactly like.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
I was thinking about that when I saw some crazy
thing about all, you know, all these people in Washington,
DC are getting fired, right, And then I see on
someone took and I don't even know if this is true,
but I believe it is. That there was a screenshot
of all the recent inventory for sale now in Washington, DC,
and it's like a lot because people are losing their

(01:14:42):
jobs and they're putting their houses up for sale. And
I think, like for me, I never wanted to be
in a position that if I lost my job, I
would feel like I had to sell my house right away,
because I've always had other skills to be able to.
Like if I lost a job as a PA, I
could go be a side attack and if I lost

(01:15:02):
that job, I could go be a full bottom. I
could do like so many different jobs. I could go
do nails at it slan, I could do whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
Like yeah, and even to get by just to pay
for your house, you know, even when you have steady
salary too, like right now, like I pick up side
gigs all the time just because I'm like, Okay, it'll
pay for like a shirt I want, you know, or
something like that, where I could throw it in my
savings account where I could go to a game or
a concert.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
I normally wouldn't have bought tickets too, Like I don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
I think it's good to have multiple skills, other things,
other forms of making money instead of you know, you
just going near nine to five. Something else you could
do in your back pocket, just in case of an emergency,
because you never know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's my advice too, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
Three the best thing about living in Philly or your
best memory. I like Philly in particular because it's a
it's a major city, but it's a very small city,
so it's not very overwhelming. I think there's a really
rich history to it, so you can go see all
that cool stuff. But then there's also parts of the
city that are totally brand new and newly developed. I

(01:16:11):
don't like in the last couple of years, and it's
turning into like Brooklyn junior.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
I preferred what else that was before?

Speaker 2 (01:16:19):
Like think about Fishtown, right, Like Fishtown used to just
be like a neighborhood with regular people, and now it's
a mini version of Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
And like, yeah, I mean when I was a kid,
it was not even but well I guess it was.
It just was like a normal, a normal neighborhood. I'm
not into the hipster restaurant thing, so I get what
you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
Yeah, And I think another big part of our city
that I don't really appreciate until I go to other
parts of the country is that we have incredible food
here and really when you go to other cities, their
food really sucks sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
Yeah, I love Philly so much. I mean, I only
lived in Philly for a year or two before that
was while I was in Jefferson for Pcyentology School with Maria,
But I worked in Philly for a really long time
and it's it's a very cool I can't really describe
the cool feeling of going on your lunch break and

(01:17:18):
just walking by and it's saying like, oh, this is
where the Declaration of Independence was signed. It's just like
you just walk by that every day when you're going
to get lunch, or you walk by the Liberty Bell,
and it's just the history is just so it's just
so so cool, and it is. It is a very
It's a small city that has it has each of
its own neighborhoods. It's easy to go, it's easy to park.

(01:17:41):
I feel like, for the most part, I love I
know that a lot of people don't like Philly fans
sports fans, but we're like our own people kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
It's a very good community.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
It's a good community. It's a good it's good to
go to the sports game. We're like a family almost.
It's like and you might think that we're rude or whatever,
but at least like we're all on each other side
kind of we'll all like fight for our team.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
So I kind of like that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
And there's just like sometimes you see these there's like
a couple of these Instagram accounts that are just like
only in Philly, and you look at it and you're like, yeah,
that's that's cool, you know, but all kind of the
best part of it. Yeah, Like our family like grew
up around here too, so it's so it's just like
we we we have rich history in it forever, and

(01:18:34):
it's it's just really cool.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
I like it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
I would never ever live there, even if you got me.
I used to think that if I could get a
house in like one of those old houses in Society
Hill that had a driveway in a backyard and shit
that and like you couldn't pay me to live there.
Absolutely not. The city is wonderful in when the weather
is nice in the spring and the fall, and in

(01:18:59):
the summer it gets a little hot sometimes, so even
then it's unpleasant. But like right now, for example, it's
what is it today, fifteen degrees or whatever it is
outside twenty degrees? Fuck no, I do not want to
be outside having to walk anywhere. Like no, thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
There is nothing more perfect than when it's seventy five
degrees in Philadelphia and you go to Franklin Fountain and
you get the freshest ice cream cone of your life.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
I think you just walk.

Speaker 2 (01:19:25):
Around and look at all the cool buildings and just
enjoy it, and it's it's really nice to just walk around.
But I mean, there's obvious like problems here, two like
major problems. But it is a pretty good city to
be near. It's definitely better than New York. I liked
Boston a lot when I was there a couple of
weeks ago, because it's similar, but it's still like way bigger.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
I like the intimacy. New York is an interesting situation
to me because when I go there, I feel and
I feel in Philadelphia, I don't ever get that overwhelmed feeling.
I know where everything is. The city's very easy for
me to figure out. I know how to get everywhere,
and I know where everything is in New York. I

(01:20:08):
just go there and I look around at just the
vast size of it, and I can't even believe that
anybody wants to live there. And I know people like
die and want to live there. They think it's the
greatest thing ever. And I think it's so overwhelming to
me that I don't know, it scares me or something
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
I would live there if I could afford a really
nice house. I love New York, but it's overwhelming, and
I think once you learn the setup of the city,
it's very easy to get around, and they have incredible transportation,
where Philadelphia has maybe the worst public transportation of all time. Like,
you have to drive if you live there. I don't
understand how people don't unless really yeah, unless they're like

(01:20:50):
never leaving the city, but otherwise, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
Yeah, you have to have a car if you want
to leave the city, really yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
And it's not like New York where you could do
every single thing you need to do in the city.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
You have to leave sometimes to do things. Yeah, there's
yeah exactly, I don't know. I just I would not
live in New York if you paid me to. I
just wouldn't. I just I like visiting for the day
and then going home. I like how I'm just super suburban.
I like having a driveway and privacy. Quiet.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
Yeah, I mean, especially when you go from living in
the city to moving back to the suburbs, it's it's difficult.
It would be difficult to go back, especially with the
parking spot. It used to take me forty five minutes
to park my car and I would be parked five
blocks from my house. But Andreas, Andrea has a parking spot.
She actually has two because she has a garage and
then you could park behind her garage if.

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):
You really want to. And she has a nice, big
house and it's in a good neighborhood. But like and
in the spring, I bet it's amazing to bring the
kids to school, but when it's wanty degrees out having
a walk blocks in snow and rain and no, I
don't even known an umbrella because I don't want one, Okay,

(01:22:10):
I just don't want the hassle of it. All right, Well,
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(01:22:30):
thank you for listening to Mother Knows Death. As a reminder,
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(01:22:54):
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(01:23:16):
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