March 20, 2025 • 35 mins
Kevin and Casey are six feet from the edge and they’re thinking: maybe they should give Creed a chancey. Are the boys of bad faith or will they adhere to the Creed?
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Give it a chance, Give it a chance.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Give it a chance. Come morning, Give it a chance.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance, come morning, give it a Do you want
to give it a chance? Give it a chance, Give
it a chance. Just give.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Why do I look so grainy?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Can you hear me? Yeah? You do look granny, But
I don't know. It's kind of fun vintage.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
What's happening? Wait? Hold on, I see what's happening here?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah? I like that song.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I know you do. I'm safe to see.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
It's greatness.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
But it's strange. I don't think he says.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
That before I knew any context of the movie. There's
a line at the end where he goes and I'm
gonna need that boat, and I like Lisa and I
like died laughing at how funny that is.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
It's so good? Is this better? Can you hear me?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Now? That's a lin? That's a lin?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I know, I know. And Lisa also, it took Lisa
a long time to understand when there's a part where
he goes, well, come to think of it, Yeah, welcome.
The song is called welcome, and he drops well, come
to think of it. And it took her. She was like, oh,
get it well, come to think of it, and I
was like, yeah, I got it the first time I listened.
(01:08):
I like rap, I get rap, rap gets me.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I see what's happened in here.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah. Anyway, that's not what we're doing. We're not doing
that song today. That's not what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Are you sure?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I am for sure because I think I I think
I can. Wow you did you did chance Me by
Nirvana early Nirvana drop in the app.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I haven't been to therapy lately, so I gotta get
it in somewhere.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
So we're doing something different today. Okay, we are going
to I'm going to give you the artist and you
get to pick the song.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Whoa, that's right, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
And I've been waiting. I've been wanting to do this
for a while and I never know what song, and
I also wanted to space it out. We're doing Creed Baby,
which is like they're having like a renaissance, like people
are like loving Creed again, especially like I think there's
like a friddy like thing of like Creed rules and
it's like a it's like sort of a memification in
(02:17):
a way that's like getting them business again andation of
Lauren Hill. Yes, and that's their new Creed.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Oh Jesus Christ, and that is you know. I do
mean that with all respect because I know Creed and
the Lord and Savor are on intimate terms.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Do you want me to give you some hits? I
think we should do it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I know, I know, I know the following hits.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Okay, hit me.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I know there's a song called My Sacrifice is title.
That's the only part of that song I could recall,
right now, same same. I definitely know, I know well
where the arms were over.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, I know that that was Eddie Vedder doing it
though for the record.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, listen, isn't this guy doing like a kind of
fifth generation Eddie ved And then I definitely know there's
another one that's called.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Fifth generation is funny. It's like it's like with SKA,
where it's like he's like, fifth wave better.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, because first wave better would have been first Stone
Temple Pilot's single Wyland. They got killed when they came
out because no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
You're saying wild it was too better. Yeah, okay better yeah,
second wave first, first wave is better?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah first yeah, vet well, vetter is better. It depends
how you define waves. Then we'll get into the song.
First vetter is better, and then it's like maybe first
so then maybe like second wave vetter is Wiland singing
Plush where the Dogs, Yeah, that's definitely. And then but
then Wyland, I feel like, goes away from it pretty quickly. Yes,
(04:02):
he has to. And then I feel like at times
I think there's a hint of Bed in there. There's
like it's like a little sprinkling of Rosemarye.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
So that let's call that third wave, all right? So maybe, yeah,
maybe Creed is fourth way of Bed.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, it might be all right. So Okay, I'm gonna
go with the other Creed songs that I know for
sure are There's Arms Wide Open. And then there's the
one Yeah, Higher, Higher, can you take Me? Where the
guitarist breaks the guitar in the video that like you know,
Cobainian or Pete Townsend, like he just snaps it in half,
Like oh, it's worth watching. I'm gonna go with because
(04:43):
it's the one I know the least. I kind of
want to pick my sacrifice because I feel like it's
the one I don't know at all.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
The other one that I know is what if? What if?
What if? It's called what if I don't know that.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
One at all?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Maybe we should do that one, and I don't know
that might be too easy for me because I remember
that part. There's one song called one Last Breath, which
it's it's like on the it's like the top of this.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Wait wait, there's another one that goes now I'm six.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Feet Yeah, that one's good. I like that one. Maybe
they should Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Maybe we should do that one.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, should we do.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
A verse and chorus of all of them? No, that's
like a lightning round, like.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
A crazy breath. Okay, yeah, okay, that's.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
One last breath, So maybe we should do one Last Breath.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
So yeah, that's the that's the top song too.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Let's do that top song. Yeah, because that song I
think the lyric now I'm six feet from I can't
even sing it without.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah. Yeah, it's got that nickelback quality of like Scott
never made it other ones.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
My own, Yeah, which brings us right.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
This got a little better too, yeah yeah, Nick, yeah, Nick, Well,
very quickly before we actually listened to the song, that's
that reminds me of a very stupid but effective on
stage joke.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Bad Books used when we were on tour for our
second record. It was the same time the Lumineers were
like blowing up. And it happened that we played a
few places where, like I think we were on the
Austin City Limits Festival, and we played right before the Lumineers,
And then we played the next day or something or
two days later in Atlanta in the small room at
(06:36):
a venue where they were playing like the huge room
of it, and we just kept saying we you were
the Lumineers. And I was introducing myself and he was
introducing himself as Lou was Mini.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
It's is still I think that joke.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Well, thank you, and you're a professional comic, so I'll
take it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yes, and I need to I qualify all jokes.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I see what's happened in I see who's Lou?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
That's so funny. Sorry, I like the lum Okay, sorry,
I want to do it all day.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
You know, I'll stop, I'll stop. I see he's Lou.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
That's what you played when opening in a different room
for the Lumineers.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Well that wasn't even out yet when linden Man was
barely a glint in Obama's eye.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
All right, and without Firth. Here's Creed one Last Breath.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I'm six speed wrong here, and I'm figuring.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
All right, all right, there's more going on.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'm glad I'm listening to this song in the Year
of Our Lord twenty twenty five, because I feel like
there's actually separated from peak Creed and where I was
with respect to my own like musical whether it's development
or the opposite whatever, as a as a fan and
(08:23):
me and like writing my own music. Whatever I thought
about Creed at that point was pretty I was not
a fan. Yep. There's more going on to give that
a chance to than I think I would have been
able to give it in two thousand and like two
or something like that. Whenever this was out. When was
this out? Two thousand oh two one one eleven, twenty eleven,
(08:45):
twenty the release date eleven twenty Wow, wait, it was
the greatest hits in two thousand and one? When did
Creed come out?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I can't be that, can't that can't be. I have
song with two thousand and one as well. I can't
say that can't be. Maybe it's just also on that
and but the song yeah, so yeah, I feel very
similar my first thought is that opening guitar riff. It
must have been the go to to learn guitar for
(09:13):
like a long time, you know what I mean, Like
it was like, oh, totally I kid brought that to
his teacher or the teacher was like, you got to
learn the intro to the Creed song, right, like that
kind of fingerstyle, Like it's it feels like an exercise
you learn. Like it doesn't sound that great, but it's
like technical and like kind of like tricky to play.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That is you rpeggiate a D chord? Yeah, and a
hammer on there's a hammer on in there. Yeah, yeah,
that's totally true. That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
That's thing, you know, that's fun. I like that chord
where it's like it's like hole mind now that's.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
That's second chord. So I want to say it is
an F sharp seven, I think, but it's Beatles. Shit, dude,
He's going from a major to a seven to a
minor and I'm a stucker for that. Look, if I'm
gonna give props to you know, my holy trend when
they use it, I can't bust on Creed when they
(10:06):
do the same. Canna bust No, I can't be like, oh,
it's so cool when Elliott does Beatles stuff. Basically, Creed
just did an Elliott thing in a Creed song. That's
gotta be where it's Samson. That was little Matthew David's.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So I yeah, I very much. Oh so. Also, I
want to say that there's a bunch of times where
I've thought he was pure Ved, but he's got a
lot of Wilin. He's some of the range, like like
Ved has got a Veed doesn't can't go as high
as why and and uh Creed Ken, what's the Scott stap?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Scott's stap?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
He could he could hit really high notes like in
a in a wild way. He's wilin And.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I definitely he's definitely Wilin out. I think that you're
right to point out it's funny because he set sounds
like it sounds like I've always associated my my like
my association with his vocal performance is that it sounds
like he's really almost struggling, you know what I mean, Like.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
It's like it's like like.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, exactly. And and I don't know if you've seen
not to jump, not to cross streets, you never seen
somebody do it, and not a kid.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Not a ton, not a ton of adults, but maybe
maybe like as a as an adult with adults, not
a ton. I've been in a room. I have seen it.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, I definitely haven't like watched a ton of adults
do a coc No. I was gonna say, I you've
seen the thing where a puddle of mud a contemporary
band of creeds Nirvana, dude, and that is actually like
really rough. That's what they do about a girl. Yes,
(11:59):
and he's like he's really struggling and yeah, but he's
it's and it actually is like it kind of hurts
yea to watch him do it. You're like, god, dude,
don't do that, like James just king.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
It's like just lower.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, And I empathized with the thing, you know, evil
and you and I like went in and when we
launched this podcast, you and I went in and did
like a morning radio interview to start things with Elvis,
and I remember being like that was so much more.
That was lovely and fun and crazy as to New
York kids for a number of reasons, but also it's
(12:35):
really nice to not be there singing at seven point
thirty in the morning. I tell you I've not done
that as much as like actual famous people have. But
I I promise you that is a real bummer, especially
if you had to show it the night before and
you're up till like three in the morning. You're like,
I don't know how the how the fuck am I
supposed to sing at eight in the morning in a
little so I empathize watching that video, But I always
(12:58):
do think like that video is the has become like
the emblematic representation of like singer who's like struggling so
much it seems like he's shitting in his pants syndrome.
And I always thought that a lot about this dude,
But maybe you're right. Like this performance the bridge in specific,
I have to say the bridge. I was speaking as
(13:19):
I do to you out loud on mute while we're
listening to these like neither of us can hear what
the other is saying. But I was going, like, actually,
really like this bridge. Bridge.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, they take they take their time on bridge. It's
a bridge to Terabithia.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It's a bridge to Terabithia. And what's cool is it's
a he's talking about in the song. If I go
back and look at the lyrics again, Oh, he talks
about the road, not the road. I don't think he's
talking about touring, talking about he thinks he's found the
road to nowhere. Then later he says, I thought I
found the road just somewhere and in the bridge, I'm like, well,
definitely on a bridge to Terabithia now, request. Yeah, this
(13:58):
guy's are real. I bet he's a real Biden fan
with all his infrastructure references.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
A new character, keV.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I don't know who that guy is, a new character,
but he's coming back around again because that's what the
people love. The sun. No, sorry that was different.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
No, So yeah, the bridges is I would you know.
What's interesting is it's like it's a It's like it's
this thing where now I'm like awarding the bridge, but
it's not like I really like the bridge. Like it's
not like, you know, I'm like giving it like you know,
like sometimes like you're like giving something technical points, but
you're like, am I really enjoying it? It's not catchy
(14:38):
like you know.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
But no, I couldn't sing it to you right now
and we just listened to it.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
But I do give it points.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I do.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, yeah, sad eyes, I don't follow me. But there's
something about it that. Yeah. I do.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Wait, I could sing it said follow me. Isn't that
the first part?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, But I don't know anything after that.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
No, but I remember listening to it as well and
being like this guy, they didn't phone it in, right,
So I do give it a chancey for not just
being like, Okay, here's a bridge that's a solo or
something which isn't bad, but like, it's nice that he
like they took their time with it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I do think, in fact, I want to. I do
see this is where you're really getting into the philosophical
crux of what we do at this on this podcast.
You're right, you don't want to treat it like it's
like when you know, you're three year old hands you
a finger painting of, you know, a sunset, and it
(15:51):
vaguely resembles a sunset and you're amazed because that's amazing.
Cree doesn't need that from us. They are a multi platinum,
world renowned, you know, multi decade recording act. They don't
need me to oh congratulations, you knew to move the
major to a minor to start the bridge, you know. Wow.
(16:15):
But I also will say we have listened to a
lot of songs out here where the bridge was. I'm
pleasantly surprised when an act of this vintage sure does
understand structurally, Like to me, it's like the thing I
just thought of immediately, which maybe is like held up
(16:35):
in my brain is like the uh, the like it's
one of the ones I hold up is like a
bridge to somewhere. In terms of Scott Stapp would understand
a bridge to somewhere, the life is very short and
there's no time from uh, we can work it out.
When the minor key comes in and all of a
sudden we switch from Paul to John and it's like
life is very sure. That is so good, and it's
(16:59):
like a comple mood change and a complete like whoa.
And then when Paul comes back and we're in the
major again, you're like, oh, that was so effective. Not
every bridge is going to be that bridge, but when
someone understands what the bridge is meant to be at
the very least, I'm like, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I think that's cool.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
You know, I will give them the chance for that.
Now you're talking about we're talking about gradations of efficacy.
Oh and look, do I think that's is it my
favorite bridge? I've ever heard today. No, but is it
a bridge that's somewhat effective and understands what a bridge
(17:41):
is supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, And similarly to the bridge, the anti chance I
give this is the is the verses. They don't really
do a lot for me, but I think that they
The chorus is a really good course undeniable. It's so catchy,
it's it's it's a it's a like you even think of,
you know, like you know what a good chorus as
(18:02):
good as when you're singing the song and you're thinking
of the music that's in between, like hold me now.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
To dang, I'm sitting from the head and I don't
thinking you're you're kind of like picturing this this you're
thinking of the song, like the the instrumentation you know
behind it.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I also at the very top right, they do this
whole verse and then there's this sort of anti climax thing,
like you think it's gonna cut hidden hard. They kind
of swell to.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Hold now, yep, yep, hold no now, I'm holding in
me now and y'all hold in.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Or whatever the.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Ship street from the you know, I'm thinking now when
he says he's thinking, no, but I do know what
you mean that, like the subtle tease this, like the
half stare step before like really jumping out over the abits.
I do think they go to that well though. For me,
(19:10):
I love we're weaving seamlessly between chance and anti chance,
and I think that might be where the pot is
at its strongest. I don't think it has to be
so binary. And now we'll say the chance, and now
we'll say the anti chance. We just go, you know,
wherever we're led. I know what you're saying. I do
like that. I do think it's subtle. I will say,
for me, it does make the very ending diminishing returns.
(19:33):
I would be happy if the song ended after the
last chorus, after the ain't so far down?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, yeah, Then there's this extra little.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
We're out, We're out. That's it when it comes back
with that half first verse and then he gets to
go like shay for whatever. The last part is this
little axle thing at the very end. I'm like, yeah,
I didn't need that, but this is that's the kind
of stuff these dudes can't avoid. It's like in the axle.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Stuff is so true, like it's funny. He really is
an amalgamation the axel ayay, Like I do that in
my house. I do that all the time in this house,
in this house, like that with my daughter and wife.
If I'm saying even if it's just like if it's
just like you know, like I see what's happening, hey
(20:24):
oh yeah, like you have to do the axle. Like
I've taught Mari this to my daughter. This thing, I
call it big finish. So when she's singing a song
and it's the ending of it, I'll be like, do
a big finish, and so she'll do like, you know,
like baby shy.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Oh, that's so awesome.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
But it's the axle. It's it's it's so true. Actually
there's like not enough Axel. Well maybe there's too much.
There's axel right now, is Taylor?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Well, you know what's funny is what Axel and what
that cohort was doing when they were doing that stuff.
I feel like is actually what is usually represented in
like yet kind of R and B or like certain
kinds of pop singing. Like look, Mariah Carry and Axel
(21:14):
Rose right presentationally uh, genre definition wise really different, but
both singers. The hallmark thing is this like excessive, Like
I think the free is the term mellissma like these
like like trills that are like you know, and I
think that's one of the things that you know, it's
(21:37):
I feel like they were some of those West Coast,
you know, sunset strip bands were going for that, and
I think they they thought it was like a reference
to like Robert Plant or Freddie Mercury or something.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Because actually big time plant plants plants all over that stuff.
But I can't definitely right about R and B if
you go back to like a rutha Franklin and like.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
And all the way through all the way to now
and then a lot of these like runs like that
kind of and and Axel did a lot of that.
But I also think was also meant I think he thought,
and it's funny to bring him up in these context
because I think, and I'm sorry, look, we can't listen
(22:18):
to a band like Creta to not go here a
little bit, so just fucking bear with it. Yeah, But
I feel like someone something like Creed this is a
band who came up listening to probably in relatively equal measure,
like pre proto butt rock stuff and then grunge, right,
(22:43):
so you kind of get like they there's a thing
if you were a rock band after grunge, you had
to like this tempo is pretty like pop grungey. The
kind of energy of it's pretty like umbrooding dog. But
there's this other thing that's prey like sort of like
messianic and broie about it that fits more with like
(23:07):
the power ballads of those.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Eighties bands, Aerosmith, like the Gunners.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
The Gunners, Sure, and so I do think there's like
but I do think that like funny seventh chord thing
that's totally a like there's a little bit of Nirvana
and that there's what there is is Beatles information and
in a little fragment of that, and I think that
(23:34):
stuff did come in more through like Chris Cornell, Kurt Cobain,
those people were like acknowledging even a little bit of
some of Stone. Temple Pilots has like a beatlesy Beatles
Zeppelin hybrid thing.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
They're doing so right, and like the guitar tones are
really interesting too, right, Like so did Kurt use a strat.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
I've seen thetures he plays a strat at that MTVS
where they like play lithium and then Dave they had
like a fight with guns n' roses or whatever. But
he was mostly he was a You mostly see him
playing either jazz Masters, Mustangs, Jaguars or that hybrid Mustang.
He made a guitar that.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Was like yeah, yeah, like yeah, I forgot that. They
called it like jag Stang, surf master or something. I
forget jazz stang. Yeah yeah. But for for this stuff,
it's like it's so that like PRS, you know, like
it's totally like this, and and what you lose is
like a little.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Less poly in places.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, and you get you get so much of Zeppelin
from that, but you lose any kind of jangle.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
The twang, the jangle, and I love totally. And that's
also there's a there's something about uh. I think he
played a telly sometimes too, and there's like a little
there's a sharpness in that that becomes dulled and rounded
in this even when the distorted guitar kicks. And I
will say I missed this is a little I mean
(25:05):
not really not to anyone who actually knows music theory,
they'd be like, what the fuck do you think you are?
This is like fractional theory thing. I missed the expression
of that seventh chord when the choruses get big, because
he just plays the power chord. He doesn't hit that
seventh note in it. That makes it cool. I was
always because when I when it first happened, because I
(25:26):
remember the big choruses to this song. So when we
first heard that chord in the down chorus, I was like, ooh,
I don't remember this. That's cool. And the reason I
didn't remember it is because it went away when the
song gets loud, it's suggested, but it's not like overt
but like you know, like sorry, I almost just got
us so lost a joke that would have been for
(25:48):
no one.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Literally, you gotta do it.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
My friend would, doesn't My friend Rob Sukhan, who was
the singer in the band Kofax, who's a legend, and
to me, if I encourage everyone to go Efects was
a great unsung band from early two thousands. Fans of
Spoon you would love this band, great, great, great. But
he would always talk about I think there was an
R and B singer called Gerard Gerard Lavere or something
(26:13):
like a French gard V E R T. But he
would say, you know, it's like I'm trying to give
it a little bit of that Gerard Lavert when he
was trying to express himself vocally, And that's what I
was just going to say about the expression, not the implication,
not explicit thing. And I was going to say it
like Gerard Lavert and then realize and now I've done
(26:35):
it for ninety seconds. So the pot I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I got on. That's what we need. That's the behind
the scenes that I think people clamor for.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, yeah, totally, but no, I think that it's funny
even when that tone kicks in and it's like, this
is to tell you, the sharpness is here, the bigness
is here. It's a little it's not it doesn't really
go there because of what you're talking about. There's like
a round. That's probably also why it was such a
big That roundedness usually helps things get big mass consumption wise,
(27:08):
Like you know, even with Nirvana, never Mind's guitar tones
are a lot rounder than in Uteros. In uters is
like someone's playing like a fucking buzzsaw next to your head.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
So yeah, and I kind of think like there's so
much charming character in it that this is lacking. And
we talk about this a lot like, of course this
is like a really polished, beautiful sounding song, but like
it loses a lot of character for me. And I
remember like coming up, like playing music you can't help
but like have friends that also play music, but they're
(27:38):
just like they're aesthetic. Is is so different from your
own right, And I'm not saying why it's better than
the other, because I think like there are a lot
of people who want to become musicians professionally and like
want to have the best sounding gear. But to me,
whenever I would like go to like a sam ash
or like you know, music Town or whatever, like I
(28:00):
would plug in to like with like a And now
I've come around on some of it because there's a
way to do it, but like those like I remember
like I'm going to try that out, Like what this
like really expensive guitar sounds like and it seems just
so clean in a way that's like it's just soulless.
And then when you play like a used strat that
they're selling for like seven hundred bucks, which is like
(28:21):
a good one because it's like American or something, You're like, oh,
this is closer to like I could already hear totally
bands that I like that used this and like, I,
you know, try out a song that I know by
them or you know, and and same with like I
played drums for a long time, and I like people
would tune their drums to make them sound like perfect,
(28:43):
and I like, like, I understand that too, but I
was like, how can I deaden them sound like a
little like Ringo, a little bit like the Police or
something like. I wanted them to sound so different than
what I think what you were supposed to make them
sound like. I wouldn't want them to resonate so much
like it was just it was a really coming up
you're just like and so when you hear a band
(29:04):
like Creed and all those things are like at the
top level, totally the best equipment, it loses this character.
For me.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
It's such a great series of observations because what it
makes me think about is how subjective all of these
words are, like even should you know, like and I
think that's funny, like all all joking aside. I think
one of the reasons for me and only for me,
and this is ultimately a pretty subjective enterprise all the
way through what we do here. The reason besides this
(29:43):
my age my information was when I was coming up
what was so formative to me. The reason something like
Nirvana comes up a lot when, especially when we're dealing
with like rock music, is because there are things that
establish themselves as kind of like a sort of idea,
you know what I mean. And and so it's like
the reason people still talk about like the Beatles, it's
(30:05):
not just because like Boomers wrote the book, that's part
of it. It's not just because like we've inherited whatever
cultural imprint from prior eras where mono culture was so
much more like the thing than it is now. It's
also because like those songs are like really fucking great
songs and and in a way kind of like unassailable.
(30:26):
A lot of them are, you know. And we've had
done a time with the Revolution nine. But you know what
I mean, Also like, yeah, we shit over that bullshit.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
We watched each other poop that was.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Nice too, like holding hands knee to knee and do shompspectory.
But look, at the end of what I'm saying here
is just to say create exists like it or not
in the shadow of that stuff to a degree, because
like it comes, it's still they're like it's a cribbing
from the same playbook, and yeah, like I mean putting
(30:58):
aside the thought exercise of what read what this song
would sound like as a Kurt Cobain song, which is
an impossible thing to think about.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
I think that's some of the most impossible. Like I
don't think they could possibly cover it.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
But I do think there's a way in which, like
I don't know, I remember hearing Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain
by Pavement for the first time at the Staten Island
Mall on one of those blue like benches that used
to exist there that were like pockmarked, almost like bus
stop benches or something, sitting that down with my walkman,
getting that cassette because I read a review of it
(31:30):
and listening to it and being like, I couldn't believe
they were this is gonna sound like such a funny
thing to say. I couldn't believe they were allowed to
sound like that. I know, I was even with Nirvana,
even with Sonic something about that band. I was like,
this sounds like it's falling apart from the minute they
start playing, and I loved it. This never feels not
(31:55):
the creed is trying to sound like Pavement. But what
I'm saying is, to your point, there's something about rock
music and this kind of like, yeah, you're talking about.
What you're really talking about, too, is like the advent
of things like punk and indie rock or whatever. It
was like, well we can't afford those instruments, so it
sounds like this, or it was like, well we can't
(32:16):
afford that studio and that producer, so it sounds like this,
And in so doing, they kind of like rescued in
their ways in their moments what was like dangerous and
a little shambolic about like rock and roll, which when
it started sounded like kind of like the Kinks playing
in that fucking riff. It's like the amp is gonna
(32:38):
is overdriven and it sounds it's gonna blow up or whatever.
It's not like I have this great pedal through this
great boar whatever. Right.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
And the other thing is like there's there's two different schools,
and you know, it's I feel like we I always
kind of when I talk about this, it feels like
I'm going into snooty town. But there's two different I
think schools of thought, right, and they're both valid, and
I definitely subscribe to the to the what I'll which
will be the former, But the first one I think
is like, I want to be a band that like
(33:06):
works and tourists, and I want to make the music
that will make it to the radio. And there's absolutely
nothing wrong with that, and I think Creed successfully did
that multiple times over. It's just what they did and
how they did it totally, and so they want everything
to be like that. So they don't want to take
as many risks and they don't want to which it
makes sense, and they don't want to like their their
goal is not to surprise themselves or surprise the audience,
(33:27):
whereas a band like Pavement, like you're saying, there's that
part on Crooked Rain, the second song Elevate Me later
where they finish the song and they're all just kind
of crashing for a while, and then like at a
time that is not even on time, they come back
in with the with the like the what if you
want to call it the riff again, and it's like
so at that point I had never heard anything like that,
(33:47):
like on a record, you know, And it feels like
you're listening to a band live, and it's also chaotic
and it's falling apart while also coming back together. It's
like they it's like they it's like it's like, is
he okay? Is he okay? The surfer okay, he's on
the board, he's on the way, he caught the wave.
Like it's like that moment. And I think that it's
like they're going for surprise and they've they're probably like,
(34:10):
we've heard, we heard the everything that happened in the eighties,
Like we don't really need to make that stuff, and
it doesn't We've heard the stuff that's been made, so like,
let's try what we do right. And sometimes it's just
a happy accident or they're just experimenting and having fun
and they just kept it. But that's totally that those
are for me, the two schools.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
I think that part of what has gotten harder. I
think there are actually people who would probably like to
be more spontaneous or surprising or whatever, and maybe creed
does exist in some ways to surprise themselves or and
also taste is a thing and what everybody's like.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Actually tracks and deep cuts.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Totally. Yeah, But I do think living in the era
and my entire life, at least as a recording artist
in the era of increasingly refined methodology to make recording.
It's the temptation to like perfect even the imperfections. It's
(35:07):
so subtle and nuanced now that you can kind of
like it's really hard to actual respect. You know what,
fuck it, We're just gonna go in and record and whatever,
because you can fix it. So I think it's also
to a degree about like there's a lot of real
estate between pavement and creed, about like what the mission
is and what the execution is, and that real estate
(35:27):
is not only sunny day. But I do think that, yeah,
it's interesting to sort of play out those different thought exercises.
At the end, I will say I was pleasantly surprised
by my time with this song. I will say they
get a props for trying to write a bridge. I
will say the chorus is anthemic, and I will say, yes,
of course, it's also ridiculous in a great many ways.
Give it a chance, Give it a chance.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Give it a chance. Come morning, Give it a chance.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance, come morning, give it a Do you want
to give it a chance? Give it a chance, Give
it a chance. Just give.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Why do I look so grainy?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Can you hear me? Yeah? You do look granny, But
I don't know. It's kind of fun vintage.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
What's happening? Wait? Hold on, I see what's happening here?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah? I like that song.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I know you do. I'm safe to see.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
It's greatness.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
But it's strange. I don't think he says.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
That before I knew any context of the movie. There's
a line at the end where he goes and I'm
gonna need that boat, and I like Lisa and I
like died laughing at how funny that is.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
It's so good? Is this better? Can you hear me?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Now? That's a lin? That's a lin?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I know, I know. And Lisa also, it took Lisa
a long time to understand when there's a part where
he goes, well, come to think of it, Yeah, welcome.
The song is called welcome, and he drops well, come
to think of it. And it took her. She was like, oh,
get it well, come to think of it, and I
was like, yeah, I got it the first time I listened.
(01:08):
I like rap, I get rap, rap gets me.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I see what's happened in here.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah. Anyway, that's not what we're doing. We're not doing
that song today. That's not what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Are you sure?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I am for sure because I think I I think
I can. Wow you did you did chance Me by
Nirvana early Nirvana drop in the app.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I haven't been to therapy lately, so I gotta get
it in somewhere.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
So we're doing something different today. Okay, we are going
to I'm going to give you the artist and you
get to pick the song.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Whoa, that's right, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
And I've been waiting. I've been wanting to do this
for a while and I never know what song, and
I also wanted to space it out. We're doing Creed Baby,
which is like they're having like a renaissance, like people
are like loving Creed again, especially like I think there's
like a friddy like thing of like Creed rules and
it's like a it's like sort of a memification in
(02:17):
a way that's like getting them business again andation of
Lauren Hill. Yes, and that's their new Creed.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Oh Jesus Christ, and that is you know. I do
mean that with all respect because I know Creed and
the Lord and Savor are on intimate terms.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Do you want me to give you some hits? I
think we should do it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I know, I know, I know the following hits.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Okay, hit me.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I know there's a song called My Sacrifice is title.
That's the only part of that song I could recall,
right now, same same. I definitely know, I know well
where the arms were over.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, I know that that was Eddie Vedder doing it
though for the record.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, listen, isn't this guy doing like a kind of
fifth generation Eddie ved And then I definitely know there's
another one that's called.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Fifth generation is funny. It's like it's like with SKA,
where it's like he's like, fifth wave better.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, because first wave better would have been first Stone
Temple Pilot's single Wyland. They got killed when they came
out because no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
You're saying wild it was too better. Yeah, okay better yeah,
second wave first, first wave is better?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah first yeah, vet well, vetter is better. It depends
how you define waves. Then we'll get into the song.
First vetter is better, and then it's like maybe first
so then maybe like second wave vetter is Wiland singing
Plush where the Dogs, Yeah, that's definitely. And then but
then Wyland, I feel like, goes away from it pretty quickly. Yes,
(04:02):
he has to. And then I feel like at times
I think there's a hint of Bed in there. There's
like it's like a little sprinkling of Rosemarye.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
So that let's call that third wave, all right? So maybe, yeah,
maybe Creed is fourth way of Bed.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, it might be all right. So Okay, I'm gonna
go with the other Creed songs that I know for
sure are There's Arms Wide Open. And then there's the
one Yeah, Higher, Higher, can you take Me? Where the
guitarist breaks the guitar in the video that like you know,
Cobainian or Pete Townsend, like he just snaps it in half,
Like oh, it's worth watching. I'm gonna go with because
(04:43):
it's the one I know the least. I kind of
want to pick my sacrifice because I feel like it's
the one I don't know at all.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
The other one that I know is what if? What if?
What if? It's called what if I don't know that.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
One at all?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Maybe we should do that one, and I don't know
that might be too easy for me because I remember
that part. There's one song called one Last Breath, which
it's it's like on the it's like the top of this.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Wait wait, there's another one that goes now I'm six.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Feet Yeah, that one's good. I like that one. Maybe
they should Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Maybe we should do that one.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, should we do.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
A verse and chorus of all of them? No, that's
like a lightning round, like.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
A crazy breath. Okay, yeah, okay, that's.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
One last breath, So maybe we should do one Last Breath.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
So yeah, that's the that's the top song too.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Let's do that top song. Yeah, because that song I
think the lyric now I'm six feet from I can't
even sing it without.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah. Yeah, it's got that nickelback quality of like Scott
never made it other ones.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
My own, Yeah, which brings us right.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
This got a little better too, yeah yeah, Nick, yeah, Nick, Well,
very quickly before we actually listened to the song, that's
that reminds me of a very stupid but effective on
stage joke.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Bad Books used when we were on tour for our
second record. It was the same time the Lumineers were
like blowing up. And it happened that we played a
few places where, like I think we were on the
Austin City Limits Festival, and we played right before the Lumineers,
And then we played the next day or something or
two days later in Atlanta in the small room at
(06:36):
a venue where they were playing like the huge room
of it, and we just kept saying we you were
the Lumineers. And I was introducing myself and he was
introducing himself as Lou was Mini.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
It's is still I think that joke.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Well, thank you, and you're a professional comic, so I'll
take it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yes, and I need to I qualify all jokes.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I see what's happened in I see who's Lou?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
That's so funny. Sorry, I like the lum Okay, sorry,
I want to do it all day.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
You know, I'll stop, I'll stop. I see he's Lou.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
That's what you played when opening in a different room
for the Lumineers.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Well that wasn't even out yet when linden Man was
barely a glint in Obama's eye.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
All right, and without Firth. Here's Creed one Last Breath.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I'm six speed wrong here, and I'm figuring.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
All right, all right, there's more going on.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'm glad I'm listening to this song in the Year
of Our Lord twenty twenty five, because I feel like
there's actually separated from peak Creed and where I was
with respect to my own like musical whether it's development
or the opposite whatever, as a as a fan and
(08:23):
me and like writing my own music. Whatever I thought
about Creed at that point was pretty I was not
a fan. Yep. There's more going on to give that
a chance to than I think I would have been
able to give it in two thousand and like two
or something like that. Whenever this was out. When was
this out? Two thousand oh two one one eleven, twenty eleven,
(08:45):
twenty the release date eleven twenty Wow, wait, it was
the greatest hits in two thousand and one? When did
Creed come out?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I can't be that, can't that can't be. I have
song with two thousand and one as well. I can't
say that can't be. Maybe it's just also on that
and but the song yeah, so yeah, I feel very
similar my first thought is that opening guitar riff. It
must have been the go to to learn guitar for
(09:13):
like a long time, you know what I mean, Like
it was like, oh, totally I kid brought that to
his teacher or the teacher was like, you got to
learn the intro to the Creed song, right, like that
kind of fingerstyle, Like it's it feels like an exercise
you learn. Like it doesn't sound that great, but it's
like technical and like kind of like tricky to play.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That is you rpeggiate a D chord? Yeah, and a
hammer on there's a hammer on in there. Yeah, yeah,
that's totally true. That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
That's thing, you know, that's fun. I like that chord
where it's like it's like hole mind now that's.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
That's second chord. So I want to say it is
an F sharp seven, I think, but it's Beatles. Shit, dude,
He's going from a major to a seven to a
minor and I'm a stucker for that. Look, if I'm
gonna give props to you know, my holy trend when
they use it, I can't bust on Creed when they
(10:06):
do the same. Canna bust No, I can't be like, oh,
it's so cool when Elliott does Beatles stuff. Basically, Creed
just did an Elliott thing in a Creed song. That's
gotta be where it's Samson. That was little Matthew David's.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So I yeah, I very much. Oh so. Also, I
want to say that there's a bunch of times where
I've thought he was pure Ved, but he's got a
lot of Wilin. He's some of the range, like like
Ved has got a Veed doesn't can't go as high
as why and and uh Creed Ken, what's the Scott stap?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Scott's stap?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
He could he could hit really high notes like in
a in a wild way. He's wilin And.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I definitely he's definitely Wilin out. I think that you're
right to point out it's funny because he set sounds
like it sounds like I've always associated my my like
my association with his vocal performance is that it sounds
like he's really almost struggling, you know what I mean, Like.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
It's like it's like like.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, exactly. And and I don't know if you've seen
not to jump, not to cross streets, you never seen
somebody do it, and not a kid.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Not a ton, not a ton of adults, but maybe
maybe like as a as an adult with adults, not
a ton. I've been in a room. I have seen it.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, I definitely haven't like watched a ton of adults
do a coc No. I was gonna say, I you've
seen the thing where a puddle of mud a contemporary
band of creeds Nirvana, dude, and that is actually like
really rough. That's what they do about a girl. Yes,
(11:59):
and he's like he's really struggling and yeah, but he's
it's and it actually is like it kind of hurts
yea to watch him do it. You're like, god, dude,
don't do that, like James just king.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
It's like just lower.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, And I empathized with the thing, you know, evil
and you and I like went in and when we
launched this podcast, you and I went in and did
like a morning radio interview to start things with Elvis,
and I remember being like that was so much more.
That was lovely and fun and crazy as to New
York kids for a number of reasons, but also it's
(12:35):
really nice to not be there singing at seven point
thirty in the morning. I tell you I've not done
that as much as like actual famous people have. But
I I promise you that is a real bummer, especially
if you had to show it the night before and
you're up till like three in the morning. You're like,
I don't know how the how the fuck am I
supposed to sing at eight in the morning in a
little so I empathize watching that video, But I always
(12:58):
do think like that video is the has become like
the emblematic representation of like singer who's like struggling so
much it seems like he's shitting in his pants syndrome.
And I always thought that a lot about this dude,
But maybe you're right. Like this performance the bridge in specific,
I have to say the bridge. I was speaking as
(13:19):
I do to you out loud on mute while we're
listening to these like neither of us can hear what
the other is saying. But I was going, like, actually,
really like this bridge. Bridge.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, they take they take their time on bridge. It's
a bridge to Terabithia.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It's a bridge to Terabithia. And what's cool is it's
a he's talking about in the song. If I go
back and look at the lyrics again, Oh, he talks
about the road, not the road. I don't think he's
talking about touring, talking about he thinks he's found the
road to nowhere. Then later he says, I thought I
found the road just somewhere and in the bridge, I'm like, well,
definitely on a bridge to Terabithia now, request. Yeah, this
(13:58):
guy's are real. I bet he's a real Biden fan
with all his infrastructure references.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
A new character, keV.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I don't know who that guy is, a new character,
but he's coming back around again because that's what the
people love. The sun. No, sorry that was different.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
No, So yeah, the bridges is I would you know.
What's interesting is it's like it's a It's like it's
this thing where now I'm like awarding the bridge, but
it's not like I really like the bridge. Like it's
not like, you know, I'm like giving it like you know,
like sometimes like you're like giving something technical points, but
you're like, am I really enjoying it? It's not catchy
(14:38):
like you know.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
But no, I couldn't sing it to you right now
and we just listened to it.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
But I do give it points.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I do.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, yeah, sad eyes, I don't follow me. But there's
something about it that. Yeah. I do.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Wait, I could sing it said follow me. Isn't that
the first part?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, But I don't know anything after that.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
No, but I remember listening to it as well and
being like this guy, they didn't phone it in, right,
So I do give it a chancey for not just
being like, Okay, here's a bridge that's a solo or
something which isn't bad, but like, it's nice that he
like they took their time with it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I do think, in fact, I want to. I do
see this is where you're really getting into the philosophical
crux of what we do at this on this podcast.
You're right, you don't want to treat it like it's
like when you know, you're three year old hands you
a finger painting of, you know, a sunset, and it
(15:51):
vaguely resembles a sunset and you're amazed because that's amazing.
Cree doesn't need that from us. They are a multi platinum,
world renowned, you know, multi decade recording act. They don't
need me to oh congratulations, you knew to move the
major to a minor to start the bridge, you know. Wow.
(16:15):
But I also will say we have listened to a
lot of songs out here where the bridge was. I'm
pleasantly surprised when an act of this vintage sure does
understand structurally, Like to me, it's like the thing I
just thought of immediately, which maybe is like held up
(16:35):
in my brain is like the uh, the like it's
one of the ones I hold up is like a
bridge to somewhere. In terms of Scott Stapp would understand
a bridge to somewhere, the life is very short and
there's no time from uh, we can work it out.
When the minor key comes in and all of a
sudden we switch from Paul to John and it's like
life is very sure. That is so good, and it's
(16:59):
like a comple mood change and a complete like whoa.
And then when Paul comes back and we're in the
major again, you're like, oh, that was so effective. Not
every bridge is going to be that bridge, but when
someone understands what the bridge is meant to be at
the very least, I'm like, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I think that's cool.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
You know, I will give them the chance for that.
Now you're talking about we're talking about gradations of efficacy.
Oh and look, do I think that's is it my
favorite bridge? I've ever heard today. No, but is it
a bridge that's somewhat effective and understands what a bridge
(17:41):
is supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, And similarly to the bridge, the anti chance I
give this is the is the verses. They don't really
do a lot for me, but I think that they
The chorus is a really good course undeniable. It's so catchy,
it's it's it's a it's a like you even think of,
you know, like you know what a good chorus as
(18:02):
good as when you're singing the song and you're thinking
of the music that's in between, like hold me now.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
To dang, I'm sitting from the head and I don't
thinking you're you're kind of like picturing this this you're
thinking of the song, like the the instrumentation you know
behind it.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I also at the very top right, they do this
whole verse and then there's this sort of anti climax thing,
like you think it's gonna cut hidden hard. They kind
of swell to.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Hold now, yep, yep, hold no now, I'm holding in
me now and y'all hold in.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Or whatever the.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Ship street from the you know, I'm thinking now when
he says he's thinking, no, but I do know what
you mean that, like the subtle tease this, like the
half stare step before like really jumping out over the abits.
I do think they go to that well though. For me,
(19:10):
I love we're weaving seamlessly between chance and anti chance,
and I think that might be where the pot is
at its strongest. I don't think it has to be
so binary. And now we'll say the chance, and now
we'll say the anti chance. We just go, you know,
wherever we're led. I know what you're saying. I do
like that. I do think it's subtle. I will say,
for me, it does make the very ending diminishing returns.
(19:33):
I would be happy if the song ended after the
last chorus, after the ain't so far down?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, yeah, Then there's this extra little.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
We're out, We're out. That's it when it comes back
with that half first verse and then he gets to
go like shay for whatever. The last part is this
little axle thing at the very end. I'm like, yeah,
I didn't need that, but this is that's the kind
of stuff these dudes can't avoid. It's like in the axle.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Stuff is so true, like it's funny. He really is
an amalgamation the axel ayay, Like I do that in
my house. I do that all the time in this house,
in this house, like that with my daughter and wife.
If I'm saying even if it's just like if it's
just like you know, like I see what's happening, hey
(20:24):
oh yeah, like you have to do the axle. Like
I've taught Mari this to my daughter. This thing, I
call it big finish. So when she's singing a song
and it's the ending of it, I'll be like, do
a big finish, and so she'll do like, you know,
like baby shy.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Oh, that's so awesome.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
But it's the axle. It's it's it's so true. Actually
there's like not enough Axel. Well maybe there's too much.
There's axel right now, is Taylor?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Well, you know what's funny is what Axel and what
that cohort was doing when they were doing that stuff.
I feel like is actually what is usually represented in
like yet kind of R and B or like certain
kinds of pop singing. Like look, Mariah Carry and Axel
(21:14):
Rose right presentationally uh, genre definition wise really different, but
both singers. The hallmark thing is this like excessive, Like
I think the free is the term mellissma like these
like like trills that are like you know, and I
think that's one of the things that you know, it's
(21:37):
I feel like they were some of those West Coast,
you know, sunset strip bands were going for that, and
I think they they thought it was like a reference
to like Robert Plant or Freddie Mercury or something.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Because actually big time plant plants plants all over that stuff.
But I can't definitely right about R and B if
you go back to like a rutha Franklin and like.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
And all the way through all the way to now
and then a lot of these like runs like that
kind of and and Axel did a lot of that.
But I also think was also meant I think he thought,
and it's funny to bring him up in these context
because I think, and I'm sorry, look, we can't listen
(22:18):
to a band like Creta to not go here a
little bit, so just fucking bear with it. Yeah, But
I feel like someone something like Creed this is a
band who came up listening to probably in relatively equal measure,
like pre proto butt rock stuff and then grunge, right,
(22:43):
so you kind of get like they there's a thing
if you were a rock band after grunge, you had
to like this tempo is pretty like pop grungey. The
kind of energy of it's pretty like umbrooding dog. But
there's this other thing that's prey like sort of like
messianic and broie about it that fits more with like
(23:07):
the power ballads of those.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Eighties bands, Aerosmith, like the Gunners.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
The Gunners, Sure, and so I do think there's like
but I do think that like funny seventh chord thing
that's totally a like there's a little bit of Nirvana
and that there's what there is is Beatles information and
in a little fragment of that, and I think that
(23:34):
stuff did come in more through like Chris Cornell, Kurt Cobain,
those people were like acknowledging even a little bit of
some of Stone. Temple Pilots has like a beatlesy Beatles
Zeppelin hybrid thing.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
They're doing so right, and like the guitar tones are
really interesting too, right, Like so did Kurt use a strat.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
I've seen thetures he plays a strat at that MTVS
where they like play lithium and then Dave they had
like a fight with guns n' roses or whatever. But
he was mostly he was a You mostly see him
playing either jazz Masters, Mustangs, Jaguars or that hybrid Mustang.
He made a guitar that.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Was like yeah, yeah, like yeah, I forgot that. They
called it like jag Stang, surf master or something. I
forget jazz stang. Yeah yeah. But for for this stuff,
it's like it's so that like PRS, you know, like
it's totally like this, and and what you lose is
like a little.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Less poly in places.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, and you get you get so much of Zeppelin
from that, but you lose any kind of jangle.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
The twang, the jangle, and I love totally. And that's
also there's a there's something about uh. I think he
played a telly sometimes too, and there's like a little
there's a sharpness in that that becomes dulled and rounded
in this even when the distorted guitar kicks. And I
will say I missed this is a little I mean
(25:05):
not really not to anyone who actually knows music theory,
they'd be like, what the fuck do you think you are?
This is like fractional theory thing. I missed the expression
of that seventh chord when the choruses get big, because
he just plays the power chord. He doesn't hit that
seventh note in it. That makes it cool. I was
always because when I when it first happened, because I
(25:26):
remember the big choruses to this song. So when we
first heard that chord in the down chorus, I was like, ooh,
I don't remember this. That's cool. And the reason I
didn't remember it is because it went away when the
song gets loud, it's suggested, but it's not like overt
but like you know, like sorry, I almost just got
us so lost a joke that would have been for
(25:48):
no one.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Literally, you gotta do it.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
My friend would, doesn't My friend Rob Sukhan, who was
the singer in the band Kofax, who's a legend, and
to me, if I encourage everyone to go Efects was
a great unsung band from early two thousands. Fans of
Spoon you would love this band, great, great, great. But
he would always talk about I think there was an
R and B singer called Gerard Gerard Lavere or something
(26:13):
like a French gard V E R T. But he
would say, you know, it's like I'm trying to give
it a little bit of that Gerard Lavert when he
was trying to express himself vocally, And that's what I
was just going to say about the expression, not the implication,
not explicit thing. And I was going to say it
like Gerard Lavert and then realize and now I've done
(26:35):
it for ninety seconds. So the pot I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I got on. That's what we need. That's the behind
the scenes that I think people clamor for.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, yeah, totally, but no, I think that it's funny
even when that tone kicks in and it's like, this
is to tell you, the sharpness is here, the bigness
is here. It's a little it's not it doesn't really
go there because of what you're talking about. There's like
a round. That's probably also why it was such a
big That roundedness usually helps things get big mass consumption wise,
(27:08):
Like you know, even with Nirvana, never Mind's guitar tones
are a lot rounder than in Uteros. In uters is
like someone's playing like a fucking buzzsaw next to your head.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
So yeah, and I kind of think like there's so
much charming character in it that this is lacking. And
we talk about this a lot like, of course this
is like a really polished, beautiful sounding song, but like
it loses a lot of character for me. And I
remember like coming up, like playing music you can't help
but like have friends that also play music, but they're
(27:38):
just like they're aesthetic. Is is so different from your
own right, And I'm not saying why it's better than
the other, because I think like there are a lot
of people who want to become musicians professionally and like
want to have the best sounding gear. But to me,
whenever I would like go to like a sam ash
or like you know, music Town or whatever, like I
(28:00):
would plug in to like with like a And now
I've come around on some of it because there's a
way to do it, but like those like I remember
like I'm going to try that out, Like what this
like really expensive guitar sounds like and it seems just
so clean in a way that's like it's just soulless.
And then when you play like a used strat that
they're selling for like seven hundred bucks, which is like
(28:21):
a good one because it's like American or something, You're like, oh,
this is closer to like I could already hear totally
bands that I like that used this and like, I,
you know, try out a song that I know by
them or you know, and and same with like I
played drums for a long time, and I like people
would tune their drums to make them sound like perfect,
(28:43):
and I like, like, I understand that too, but I
was like, how can I deaden them sound like a
little like Ringo, a little bit like the Police or
something like. I wanted them to sound so different than
what I think what you were supposed to make them
sound like. I wouldn't want them to resonate so much
like it was just it was a really coming up
you're just like and so when you hear a band
(29:04):
like Creed and all those things are like at the
top level, totally the best equipment, it loses this character.
For me.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
It's such a great series of observations because what it
makes me think about is how subjective all of these
words are, like even should you know, like and I
think that's funny, like all all joking aside. I think
one of the reasons for me and only for me,
and this is ultimately a pretty subjective enterprise all the
way through what we do here. The reason besides this
(29:43):
my age my information was when I was coming up
what was so formative to me. The reason something like
Nirvana comes up a lot when, especially when we're dealing
with like rock music, is because there are things that
establish themselves as kind of like a sort of idea,
you know what I mean. And and so it's like
the reason people still talk about like the Beatles, it's
(30:05):
not just because like Boomers wrote the book, that's part
of it. It's not just because like we've inherited whatever
cultural imprint from prior eras where mono culture was so
much more like the thing than it is now. It's
also because like those songs are like really fucking great
songs and and in a way kind of like unassailable.
(30:26):
A lot of them are, you know. And we've had
done a time with the Revolution nine. But you know what
I mean, Also like, yeah, we shit over that bullshit.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
We watched each other poop that was.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Nice too, like holding hands knee to knee and do shompspectory.
But look, at the end of what I'm saying here
is just to say create exists like it or not
in the shadow of that stuff to a degree, because
like it comes, it's still they're like it's a cribbing
from the same playbook, and yeah, like I mean putting
(30:58):
aside the thought exercise of what read what this song
would sound like as a Kurt Cobain song, which is
an impossible thing to think about.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
I think that's some of the most impossible. Like I
don't think they could possibly cover it.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
But I do think there's a way in which, like
I don't know, I remember hearing Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain
by Pavement for the first time at the Staten Island
Mall on one of those blue like benches that used
to exist there that were like pockmarked, almost like bus
stop benches or something, sitting that down with my walkman,
getting that cassette because I read a review of it
(31:30):
and listening to it and being like, I couldn't believe
they were this is gonna sound like such a funny
thing to say. I couldn't believe they were allowed to
sound like that. I know, I was even with Nirvana,
even with Sonic something about that band. I was like,
this sounds like it's falling apart from the minute they
start playing, and I loved it. This never feels not
(31:55):
the creed is trying to sound like Pavement. But what
I'm saying is, to your point, there's something about rock
music and this kind of like, yeah, you're talking about.
What you're really talking about, too, is like the advent
of things like punk and indie rock or whatever. It
was like, well we can't afford those instruments, so it
sounds like this, or it was like, well we can't
(32:16):
afford that studio and that producer, so it sounds like this,
And in so doing, they kind of like rescued in
their ways in their moments what was like dangerous and
a little shambolic about like rock and roll, which when
it started sounded like kind of like the Kinks playing
in that fucking riff. It's like the amp is gonna
(32:38):
is overdriven and it sounds it's gonna blow up or whatever.
It's not like I have this great pedal through this
great boar whatever. Right.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
And the other thing is like there's there's two different schools,
and you know, it's I feel like we I always
kind of when I talk about this, it feels like
I'm going into snooty town. But there's two different I
think schools of thought, right, and they're both valid, and
I definitely subscribe to the to the what I'll which
will be the former, But the first one I think
is like, I want to be a band that like
(33:06):
works and tourists, and I want to make the music
that will make it to the radio. And there's absolutely
nothing wrong with that, and I think Creed successfully did
that multiple times over. It's just what they did and
how they did it totally, and so they want everything
to be like that. So they don't want to take
as many risks and they don't want to which it
makes sense, and they don't want to like their their
goal is not to surprise themselves or surprise the audience,
(33:27):
whereas a band like Pavement, like you're saying, there's that
part on Crooked Rain, the second song Elevate Me later
where they finish the song and they're all just kind
of crashing for a while, and then like at a
time that is not even on time, they come back
in with the with the like the what if you
want to call it the riff again, and it's like
so at that point I had never heard anything like that,
(33:47):
like on a record, you know, And it feels like
you're listening to a band live, and it's also chaotic
and it's falling apart while also coming back together. It's
like they it's like they it's like it's like, is
he okay? Is he okay? The surfer okay, he's on
the board, he's on the way, he caught the wave.
Like it's like that moment. And I think that it's
like they're going for surprise and they've they're probably like,
(34:10):
we've heard, we heard the everything that happened in the eighties,
Like we don't really need to make that stuff, and
it doesn't We've heard the stuff that's been made, so like,
let's try what we do right. And sometimes it's just
a happy accident or they're just experimenting and having fun
and they just kept it. But that's totally that those
are for me, the two schools.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
I think that part of what has gotten harder. I
think there are actually people who would probably like to
be more spontaneous or surprising or whatever, and maybe creed
does exist in some ways to surprise themselves or and
also taste is a thing and what everybody's like.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Actually tracks and deep cuts.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Totally. Yeah, But I do think living in the era
and my entire life, at least as a recording artist
in the era of increasingly refined methodology to make recording.
It's the temptation to like perfect even the imperfections. It's
(35:07):
so subtle and nuanced now that you can kind of
like it's really hard to actual respect. You know what,
fuck it, We're just gonna go in and record and whatever,
because you can fix it. So I think it's also
to a degree about like there's a lot of real
estate between pavement and creed, about like what the mission
is and what the execution is, and that real estate
(35:27):
is not only sunny day. But I do think that, yeah,
it's interesting to sort of play out those different thought exercises.
At the end, I will say I was pleasantly surprised
by my time with this song. I will say they
get a props for trying to write a bridge. I
will say the chorus is anthemic, and I will say, yes,
of course, it's also ridiculous in a great many ways.
Elvis Duran and the Morning Show ON DEMAND News
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.