Today, we are joined by Gold Shields host, Tom Smith, to discuss a police shootout involving the wife of Weezer's bassist, snakes and a crocodile found at the scene of an accidental shooting, a baby mauled by the family dog, train necrophilia, and the arson of the Pennsylvania Governor's home.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Mother Knows Death starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Everyone Welcome The Mother Knows Death. On today's episode, we
have a very special guest, Tom Smith, who is a
retired NYPD police detective and one of the co hosts
of the gold Shields podcasts. Today, we're going to do
some news stories with Tom and ask them all of
the police questions that we're dying to know with the
latest news stories like Weezer's bassist wife being involved in
(00:43):
a police shootout, a baby being mauled to death by
their family dog, a case of necrophilia yes in a
New York City subway, and the arsonist at Governor Shapiro's mansion.
All that and more on today's episode. Him, thanks so
much for being here today.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Oh my god, talk about waiting for a show to do.
We scheduled this and ever since then, especially after we
did hours, it's been a all right, three more days,
two more days, it's tomorrow. So I'm thrilled to be
here and thank you so much for having me. And
this is gonna be cool.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So why don't you tell everyone what the podcast is about,
because we did tell our listeners to listen to our episode.
We'll listen to them all the time, but listen especially
to Maria and I's episode that was on last week.
But tell everybody a little bit about what you guys
are doing on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
So what we do is Dan and I are both
retired NYPD detectives who did combine fifty years in the NYPD.
Dan was my sergeant and partner in a couple of
different details that we were on together, and what we
wanted to do was get these stories out there that
people might not might know about but not really know about,
(01:58):
and these high profile cases and military missions, but get
a kind of backstory to them. So what we did
is we have the guests on who actually did them,
the detectives, the Seal Team six operators, victims of crimes,
to tell their own story about what happened with the case.
And a lot of times the feedback we get is, wow,
(02:20):
I knew about the case, but I didn't know that well,
I didn't know that much about it, which is the
point of it. That's what we want to do. And
Dan and I were very intent on not telling someone
else's story, you know, let the person who went through
it and did it tell their own story, and that's
basically what it is. You know, we all get kind
of pigeonholed into a genre and true crime we are,
(02:45):
but I always like to tell everyone we're more of
a true story podcast than that because of the stories
we hear blow our mind a lot with what we
hear because we don't have a script, you know, we
just kind to have conversations and a lot of the
information coming about these cases we never heard about. So
(03:06):
the reactions are pretty authentic with with Dan and I
being blown away sometimes. So it's been a great ride
and we just love doing it. Well.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
We commonly find when we're looking up news stories that
maybe one news source like NBC writes something and basically
every other news source just copies what they wrote essentially.
So I could see that you would want to get
stories from other people because they're not really digging much
deeper on a lot of these cases.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Right They're they're satisfied with with the oh wow headline
or you know, the the dramatic, you know, just face
story of what it is, but don't go into why
it is and what happened and the particular is about it,
which are more interesting than just a headline. Uh, and
that's what we wanted to do with it. You know,
(03:54):
we got all the time comments of you know, I
knew about that military mission because I read about it whatever,
but had no idea about a B and C. And
that's the point of it. And that's what, you know,
we keep hearing that. That's what keeps driving us to
get more of these stories out there.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
So what are some of the high profile cases that
you've covered and had interviews?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Oh? Boy, we did the Scott Peterson case. We had
the detective who actually locked Scott Peterson up, so we
talked about that. The Oh god, Ted Bundy's a victim
of a victim of Ted Bundy. Kathy Kleine Rubin who
(04:37):
survived an attacked by Ted Bundy, who had her on
the night Stalker, you know, Gil Carrera who locked him up,
was on it. That was a chilling episode of hearing
the integral parts of going after a serial killer. You know,
we read about him, we see movies on it, but
to get a first hand account of how to do
(05:01):
it was a great episode. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
And I just listened to Your Vegas Shooter episode two,
and I think that's the case. You know, I was
all over watching the news, but hearing your Guys episode
and just the first person point of view about what
went down that day, it just so much more compelling,
like we're talking about, than reading it just online or
seeing it covered on TV, because you just really have
(05:25):
no idea what it's like unless you're there, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Josh was amazing. That was, you know, one of those
that Dan and I just shut up and just let
Josh talk and tell the story. And that was one
of those, you know that you remember recently, you know,
the other ones were a few years ago, and that
one's still fresh in everyone's mind. So to hear that
reaction and we've all been there, you know. And I
(05:49):
think I said it in the show Maria that you know, cops,
you could be sitting around doing nothing, laughing, joking, and
thirty seconds later, the world is ending and that's police work.
And that's what Josh kind of put out there of
training with the dogs and you got uniform shirt off
and it's a nice day and then all of a sudden,
it looks like armageddon.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, and I believe you made a really good point
on that episode too, or maybe it was at our
dinner last week, but you had said something along the
lines of, like, these things sometimes happen to somebody, These
traumatic things only occur to people one time, But for
police officers in particular, this is just another day at work.
And sometimes they have won two, three scenes this traumatic
in a day. And I can't imagine how hard that is.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
To process, right, you know, the average person will have
three to four, maybe five traumatic events in their lifetime.
I could literally have you know, ten in a night,
you know, when I was on patrol, you know, just
constantly going to nine one one calls and tragedies and
all that. You could literally, you know, just have that
(06:54):
number in one tour in one night and add that
up over a career. And that's why you know, this
job is so demanding, both physically and mentally.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, at it's cool because I mean when you think
about being a new working in New York and being
a detective there, most people would be exposed to a
lot of crazy shit there, Like just because like one
of the stories we're going to talk about today is
just enough to be like, Okay, these people are seeing
some crazy stuff. But even smaller departments, like they never
(07:27):
know what they're going to come across either, So it's
cool that you're interviewing people from all over to just
get this different perspectives on where they're working and what
the population's like and how populated it is. Like Vegas,
for example, has a lot of tourists where and New
York does too, but where I live, Like, no, that's
(07:48):
not even a thing on their mind. So it's just
cool to get a perspective from all different law enforcement officers.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, you know, when we started and we first put
it out there, a lot of people were under the
impression that we would just do in and YPD stories
just because of the name of the show and where
Dan and I are from, and we were like, not
even close. I mean, in one hundred and fifteen shows
that we've done, we've maybe done four at WHITEPD shows.
And that just goes to your example and Nicole, that
(08:17):
the stories of great investigations and traumatic events and all
that are all over the country, and we've had so
many with like you said, small towns or smaller police
departments that you know, these heroic events happen with cops
getting shot and or saving lives or all that, and
that's what we wanted to do. We wanted to make
(08:39):
it a nationwide and worldwide show. And luckily we are
so far.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So all right, So saying talking about getting shot, this
is good for our first story because this is a
super bizarre one that came out this week. Do you Ray,
do you want to get into it?
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So Jilly and Lauren Schriner, who is the wife of
Weezer's Basis Scotch, she was in this incredibly strange situation
last week where she ended up getting in this police shootout.
I mean, the details of this story are just so bizarre.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
So she wasn't.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Involved at all, and I guess the person that was
accused of doing a hit and run had just ran
away from the scene and went into one of her neighbor's.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yards or something.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, it appears there was some sort of police you know,
chase going on from a hit and run incident, and
these suspects had ended up in her neighborhood and by
the time the police got there, they found her with
a nine millimeter on her porch and they had said
to her multiple times, please put your gun down, and then,
according to the police, she shot at them and then
they shot at her. She ended up getting shot in
(09:46):
the shoulder but it's all over the place with what
actually went down and why was she even involved in
this in the first place. I am thinking, like, if
I had a weapon and the police officer was telling
me to put it down, of course I would. But
she he's saying, she was defending her home, and I
don't really know what was going on there.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, that was a bizarre story to read about and
do some checking on. And what it seems that happened was,
you know, she had a gun in the house and
she's protecting herself and probably just heard someone in the
backyard walking around, went out to take a look, and
the worst case scenario happens. It's at night. She probably
(10:28):
couldn't see who it was. She doesn't trust someone just
yelling the police and without surveying what's going on and
taking a second, you know, just starts shooting. And the
police are in that area looking for I think a
carjack or something to that effect. So they were already
amped up looking for someone that might have a weapon.
(10:50):
Now someone pops up in front of you with a
weapon and starts shooting it you. So that's the worst
case scenario you can think of, And you know what
she's lucky she's still live, you know, with what could
have happened. But that's scary situations when you run into
people who are armed, whether they have a permit or not,
(11:10):
and they're defending their home or whatever. But the biggest
part is, no matter what permit you have, you're usually
not trained enough to deal with this situation like that
of how to do it, how to talk, how to
recognize police officers, you know, and all that. So I
think that also played a contributing factory to what happened.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So I have a question in je because I think
about this often when you hear about people who are
carrying I personally feel like I know all the steps
that you have to go through. It are pretty vigorous.
A person that's concealed carry like legit permit and everything.
As a law enforcement officer, do you feel better knowing
(11:56):
that there's people that are armed around that could potentially
help you guys in a situation or do you hate
the fact that regular people are carrying weapons?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Listen, I firmly believe that everyone should have the right
to do it obviously, you know, and protect yourself and
your family and all that. But I think the level
of training that needs to be done has to be
ramped up, because you know you're talking about you. You
can be twenty one years old and get a permit
and go to a training session and take a couple
(12:30):
of shots at a paper target and get a permit
and have a gun. I've had conversations with people of
do you understand what goes with that permit? Yeah, it
gets carrie gun. No, you could potentially kill someone. I
don't want that. No, that's part of it, you know.
And they don't. They think it's kind of cool that
(12:50):
they can have a gun and carry it and protect themselves,
but don't understand what can happen, you know, and what
could very easily happen going down the line. And when
I start having conversations with people like that, they freak
out of wait, I didn't sign up for that. I
don't want to kill anyone, okay, but you may have to,
(13:10):
you know, And that parallel of yeah, that's reality, you know,
it kind of hits people hard sometimes.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Is it weird that people like I would just assume
if you're getting a gun, that's what you're getting it for, Like,
what else are you using it for? To scare somebody?
Because that's definitely a terrible idea.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
It's a horrible idea. And that's where you get into,
you know, the mindsets of people of you know, is
it fashionable, it's cool I have when listen, that's a
mindset unfortunately in this world today. Yeah, it's cool to
have a gun, you know, but they're not taking that
extra step of the responsibility of it and the ramifications
of that responsibility. If you happen to screw up, just
(13:51):
because you have a permit doesn't mean you can't be
wrong and you can't go to jail. And people think
that is, well, well, it's not an illegal gun, yeah,
but your actions can be. And that's what people lose
sometimes when it comes to arming themselves.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, and I feel like in this case, I mean,
she's now she got arrested for attempted murder, so I
guess she actually took shots at the officers.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, And that's what I mean, you know, the misidentification
of police officers who were yelling at her with a
police with the police, whether they were in plain clothes,
I don't know what they were dressed like, if they
had their uniforms on, if they had a identifying markings
on them. You know, I don't know at that point,
but you know, that's part of the training of it,
(14:33):
of taking that second to survey a situation and to
you know, understand if they're a cop, you know, they
control the scene, not you. They're they're in charge, and
you're the one, the civilian with the guns. So I
think the communications broke down and trusting who was in
(14:53):
her backyard is part of the problem as well, and that,
like I said, is a worst case scenario that's nightmare
for both parties, for both parties to be involved in.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, I mean that could have turned ugly, right, Yeah, Well,
I saw that she had just had a hysterectomy recently,
and she had been treating being treated for cancer. So
do you think there was I don't know. I'm just
trying to think of all possible situations. What that her
ovaries got taken out and she went nuts. Well no, no,
I'm not saying about the hysterectomy. But do you think
(15:25):
because of the combination of having treatment for cancer and
having the surgery there was some type of brain fog
that could have affected her decision making? I mean, I
don't really, I don't know. I'm asking you as a
medical person, if that's a possibility, I mean she had
the surgery over a month ago, I would say I
would say no, Like what Tom just said with the
(15:45):
with the officers potentially wearing street clothes, I mean, think
about that, Like if I'm just thinking about looking at
my own backyard, if there's a bunch of guys wearing
normal clothes carrying guns in my yard, I'm gonna be like,
on hi alert, Are you gonna do that at them?
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Well, I don't have a gun.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
But if I but if finds it for reasons like this,
because I don't think I would make the right decision
in that time, but but for real, like that would
I would be on high alert. I definitely would call
nine on one and like, but but there's people on
my street that might have a gun that might do
something you don't understand.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Like I say that that would freak her out.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Do you think it's also possible she misfired because most
times people have such horrible trigger discipline when they're holding
a gun, And I feel like that's an incredible possibility
that she was scared she was holding it and slipped.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Sure that that goes with what I said before with training,
and it shouldn't be You shouldn't be one time like
all right, I'm gonna go get trained because I'm getting
my permit. It should be a two, three times a year,
you know, training session that you should be on because
those scenario can happen, maybe not to that extreme, but
(17:03):
being on the street and Nicole, you bring up a
great point with plain clothes officers and I worked in there.
You know, I was in an anti crime union playing
clothes and got surrounded by you know, three radio cars,
you know NYPD cars thinking we were a robbery team.
You know that happens, and it's scary, uh, not to
mention just being a civilian and seeing people walking through
(17:24):
your backyard. But you came up with a great point too,
you know, run inside, locked the door, called nine one one, Hey,
there's people in my backyard saying they're cops, and that
nine one one operator is going, yes they are. They're
looking for a B and C. So that's another avenue
she could have went down. But the stress of it,
you know, clouds people's judgments sometimes and reaction, so I
(17:45):
think that had something to do with it as well.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Do you also see this little interesting tidbit that she
was just gonna say this with this serial killer Samuel Little.
She she I think she owns his or not owns his,
but I think she acquired his career reins after he
died in twenty twenty. But she had been making this
documentary about Samuel Little. And the way these articles are
reading is that it was supposed to highlight, you know,
(18:09):
the victims and be to their benefit. But then this
woman ended up developing this really close friendship with him,
to the point where he put her as his next
of kin on his prison paperwork. It's very bizarre, but
I feel like I've never heard of this guy, and
apparently he's like one of the most prolific serial killers
in the United States.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yeah, have you heard of him?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
No? No? What were the circumstances of his case? Then?
Might be? I don't know his name, but the case.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
I believe he is convicted of killing at least eight
women in between nineteen seventy and I think they're early
two thousands. But then it came out later that he
admitted to killing up to ninety three victims.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
But the FABI.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Confirm the FBI confirmed fifty of the ninety three. Oh
my god.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So it's it's a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I just it's just kind of like, I'm like, oh,
why is this the first time I'm hearing about this?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I always really fall in love with you know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Right, definitely.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I also thought it was kind of strange that, you know,
she's getting charged with attempted murder I'm assuming of police officers,
and she got released on bond that night. I would
just think for that level of a charge that you
wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Well, welcome to the twenty twenty exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I could tell you ten cases this week of that happening. Really,
and her husband coach.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
That's the bad part. That doesn't even surprise me anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, you're just like whatever, like that's that's totally normal now,
all right. So here's a case that the next case
shouldn't surprise you either, because I feel like we talk
about it at least once a month on this podcast.
We don't even cover every story. But no, So this
happened in Alabama. This couple had brought their four year
old to the hospital after he accidentally shot himself with
(19:58):
a weapon in the house.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
So then police go to search the home.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Not only do they find all these unsecured weapons, but
they come across at least thirty snakes, some alive, some dead,
covered in maggots, boxes of mice, and a crocodile in them.
So this is something we talk about on this show
all the time, is like, what is it like to
just be a cop and walk into the house not
(20:22):
knowing what to expect because you probably just live in
a normal house that has just like furniture and stuff
like that, and then you just go into these abnormal
living situations.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Oh that was you know, any apartment that you would
go into in the city held you breath because anything
could happen. You know. I read this article and I
remembered we did. We took a case down in the
Bronx in narcotics, so, you know, a couple of different streets,
a bunch of people arrested with this one crew, and
(20:53):
one of them had an alligator in the bethtub when
we did the warrant, you know, and we're all on
the street and we hearing, you know, what's going on,
and you're thinking it's a joke, and it wasn't. In
the Bronx an alligator in the bethtub, you know, but
other situations. I mean walking in and just seeing weird stuff,
(21:16):
you know, shrines of a lot of different things that
would be in certain rooms and all that. But you
have to be you know that. That's one of the
things about working in a big city, especially a city
like New York where anything is possible. You have to
be ready for every situation or every weird thing that
(21:38):
could happen walking into an apartment.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
So Gabe's friends with an older, retired fd M I guy,
and he showed me a picture once and it's just
an apartment building, right, and Gabe's just like just zoom
in on the window, and there's a freaking tiger, like
a tiger you would see at the zoo in an
apartment in New York City. Just like it's so outrageous
(22:01):
to think that you guys would ever encounter something like that.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
It's just so wild.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yep, and a lot of us, you know, like I
just said, I'll say it calmly, because it's like it's
New York. There's nothing surprising anymore. And you get to
a point in your career that nothing surprises you. Yea
very rarely would you go, oh my god, that happened. No,
it's you would just like kind of shrug it, like yeah, okay,
(22:30):
that makes sense. So you gotta be ready.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
What do you do in that case?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
You have to call animal control to secure it before
further pursuing the scene.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, the first thing is to close the door and
get out.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I was gonna say, like, do any of your guys
like really freak out and just say, like, you know,
like some I know some guys that just have irrational
fears of animals, Like one of our friends is like
scared a death of sharks.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Like you really could just like.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Avoid that, Like I'm not going in there, no way,
you know, like a spider thing or whatever.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Like that's where I draw the line. I'm not doing that.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Oh yeah, it could be anything. I mean, I know
numerous cops are scattered dogs, you know, and that creates
a problem when that happens. You know, So the fear
of something, you know, the first thing is just get out.
You know, whether it's an alligator or a tiger, or
you know, an eagle flying around an apartment, you know,
all weird stuff like that that.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Sounds a little specifics.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Is just get out, close the door, and call like
animal control or you know there's times that you look
around at each other and be like, who do we call?
Like is there a tiger removal department in New York City?
But you know, an animal control of some sort would
come and take care of it.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
So the main part of this story, which should be
the most shocking, which isn't, is that a kid shot
himself with with a gun that was laying around. Is
that something that you encountered through your career? Do you
think it's getting worse because I feel like I hear
it a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, you know, because there's there's so many guns out there.
I mean, there are, whether they legal or not. The
biggest thing about having a weapon in your house is
where it's stored and where it's locked up and who
has access to it. And a lot of people disregard
that and they just leave it out and kids end
(24:26):
up killing themselves the majority of the time are shooting
a friend because they think it's a toy, you know,
or something like that. And that is is usually the
case with this and those are the I mean, you
can't get more heartbreaking than that scenario, you know, either
one of those that I laid out and that does happen,
(24:47):
and it goes back to the parents' responsibility. You know,
the kid's a kid, you know, the parents responsibility or
lack of responsibility when having these weapons in a house
is tragic sometimes.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And this is kind of similar to our next story
in a way that parents having their child either seriously
injured or hurt and it's kind of their fault they
put the danger into the house. Like, I don't even
know how you live with yourself after something like that.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Right, Well, that decision, that perfect point, Nicole, that that
scenario should be played out before you bring a weapon
in the house. You know, play out that what if
what if he gets it? What if something goes wrong?
You know, and people don't. They just take it for
granted that, oh it'll be all right. You know, he's
not going to get it, or I hit it, you know,
(25:38):
I hit in the spot. Listen, we were all kids.
We find anything. Yeah, yeah, they ask us around Christmas
time we find anything, you know, if they if they
have a thought that that's in the house. Kids can
find anything and get into anything. So unless it is
a bolted down, you know, secure combination lock box, they're
(26:00):
gonna find it.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
You know, I think my kids are broken. I say
this at Christmas time. I keep their presence like unwrapped
in my office, just like hidden under a couch or something,
and they just don't even find it.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I'm so disappointed.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Never I'm just like, I had that shit unwrapped, looked
at it, re wrapped it, put it back in my
mom's closet. Well, last year we hit it behind the
curtain for the window. They don't but all the time,
or on the back porch. We'll just put it back there.
They take the trash out all the time, walk right
by the box, don't even notice it.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
You're just like, how is this? What kind of kids
are you?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
This episode is brought to you by The Grossroom. Guys,
the Grossroom is going on sale. It only goes on
sale a couple of times a year, and I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
For you to join if you're not already a member.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
We have some really awesome things coming up in this episode.
We're talking about that case in Neckrofe, So I thought
that this would be a perfect time to really dive
deep into this subject into the Gross Room because it
is a pretty interesting subject. We do have a couple
cases in their already real life cases, so it is
(27:15):
super disturbing, but we have lots of disturbing things. Also,
Easter is coming up this weekend, and we have a
post from last year a high profile death dissection talking
about the crucifixion and if it was medically possible to happen,
and we look at different forensics and proof of that happening.
So it's pretty interesting high profile death dissection.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
So check that out.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, head over to the gross room dot com now
to sign up for twenty dollars for one year of gross.
All right, so talk about this with the parents though,
because this next case, so this case and then the
next one we're talking about is not having a gun,
but having a dog that's known for eating children. So well,
(28:00):
we talk about this a lot with dogs attacking children,
especially with pit bulls, which is some of the greatest
criticism I guess we face is criticizing people for having
these dogs in the house with small children. But again,
this is a case of a seven month old baby
that was mauled to death by the family dog. They
had three pitbulls at the house, and when animal control
(28:21):
got there, they didn't know exactly which dog did it
at first, and they determine which dog did it now
that dog has to get euthanized, which isn't fair to
the baby that lost its life, isn't fair to the
dog that was just being an animal.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
And then the people that own the dog don't get
in the trouble. That's the weirdest part of it.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, I mean dogs. You know, when it comes to that,
you kind of different topics, differ different items, but sort
of the same thing. You know, you have a possible
deadly weapon, which is a dog right near your children,
and they can turn in a mint. They're animals, you know,
they can be trained. Oh, I love them, they sleep
(29:02):
with me, They're all this. But there's some animals that
just have this trigger and they just go off and
you can't map it out, you can't schedule it, you
can't see it coming, and it just happens. You know.
Moreover with this, when you have a history of these dogs,
you know, creating a problem is even more of an alert,
(29:24):
you know, to go out of maybe not have them
around the kids.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
So you're saying that sometimes there's officers that would be
scared of dogs. I personally would be too. As far
as if I'm going over a friend's house that I
know that the dog's well taken care of, and I
know what kind of environment they live in. I would
be like way more chill about it. But just going
into a stranger's house where you don't know how they're
(29:50):
training this dog or what's happening, like what what are
your officers do in that situation? I mean, I guess
they have a gun on them, so that's always helpful.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, you go first, that's you, that's in the hallway.
All right, go ahead, you go. I'll stay out here.
It's usually how it happens. But sometimes you don't know
that they are and they'll come out of a bedroom,
or they'll come at you know, out of another closet,
whatever it might be. So sometimes you're caught off guard
with with seeing them. When we would do search warrants,
(30:21):
you really didn't know. So we had a lieutenant that
would always do a search warrant with treats and dog
food in his pocket. We had it every search warrant
we did, just in case there was a dog there.
He throw them a bone and throw them a treat,
throw food in another room, whatever it was. Because listen,
(30:42):
no one, especially pitbulls, you do not want to get
bit by that and you don't want to listen. No
one wants to fire their weapon, whether it's at a
person or a dog, you don't want to do it.
So you just do everything you can to avoid that situation.
But sometimes it's unavoidable, and you know it's going to
be them, not you, because I've seen guys bit by
dogs and it is not cool, it's not pretty, it's
(31:04):
painful as hell, and you don't want to go through that.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
And what happens when you guys like obviously we talk
about such horrible stories on here, we have another one
coming up after this story of just officers seeing like
terrible shit. So they're gonna show up to this house.
And let's say, I mean most of these guys. I
know that Gabe has this issue, you know, when he
(31:31):
goes to fires that involve children, because it's like he
has kids.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
That age too.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
And you can't help but say, it's a similar situation
because you know kids that age right, And so if
you walk into a scene like that and you see
a baby that is the victim of being killed by
a pit bull, which could be so gruesome, how do
you deal with that with the officers? Do they have
(31:55):
any kind of assistance for them when they get back.
Do they have to go to some kind of therapy
or is that's something they just take home with them.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well, you would hope if it. Listen, people deal with
stresses and situations like that differently. Some guys and women
can handle it and just kind of put it in
the back of their head of part of the job
another day. But it adds up, and that's where it's not.
When it comes to the mental health issues of police
officers and talking to people, it's not one event. It's
(32:27):
always more and more and adding up. And that's when
you have to know and realize when it's time to
talk to someone unofficially, officially, whatever it might be. But
things in police departments and police officers boil to a
point that they can't take it anymore, that's when bad
things start to happen. That's when alcoholism starts, and suicide starts,
(32:51):
and domestic issues start. You know, when you get to
these events just boiling over because you didn't realize when
it was time to go talk to someone.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
So you started what year did you start being a cop?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Nineteen ninety So you've seen a huge change in that,
like a shift in the thinking of that, because we've
talked about that before that you used to have to
put on almost a front like nothing bothered you guys,
And now it's how do you feel about that being
more open? You think that, I mean, obviously that should
be better for most people.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Right, Oh, it's about time. I mean, you know, we
were we were of the age which was wrong, but
it was the time. It was of hey, you're a cop,
deal with it, you know, and that was it. It's
your job, you know. We used to hear that all
the time. And the problem at the time was the
ramifications of it. If you went to someone said I
have a problem, I have a mental health issue, whatever
(33:47):
it might be. Your gun was taken, your shield was taken.
You'll put on a midnight shift watching a parking lot.
I mean that's what it was. You weren't a cop anymore.
You weren't technically, but you weren't. And that's what worry
people in the police department of I don't want, you know,
that to happen to me. I love being a cop.
Just because I saw something one day, I'll just keep
(34:09):
it to myself. But like I said, we have so
many traumatic events that happen in just the course of
a day, it's going to get to a point where
you just can't take it anymore, and sometimes that's too late.
So I openly I'm thrilled that there's more mental health
(34:30):
issu you know, avenues out there that they can seek
help and talk to someone in different organizations that are
out there now other than when I was on, and
I just hope that they take advantage of it and
get that help, because sometimes all it takes is one
conversation and one this is what I went through. Hey
do this, call me back next week, and you know,
(34:53):
things can feel better. And you know, we do talk
about it on our show all the time, of the
organizations that we're involved in outreaching to departments to make
sure that everyone's okay.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, I'm really happy to hear that because a lot
of times people that work in this field don't have
someone to go home to and talk to about it,
and sometimes that's not even enough. So it is nice
to hear that at least they're offering those resources to
people now.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
So this next story that.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
We have involves not exactly a police officer walking in
with his own eyes or her own eyes and seeing
something horrific. But the talk of we talk about this
of looking over surveillance films, or sometimes we hear about
these horrible child pornography cases where police have to look
(35:48):
through people's phones and see this shit, which is disturbing. So, Maria,
do you want to talk about this next case? Yeah,
So police are contacted when the conductor of this R
train in New York City found this thirty seven year
old man who was dead. So of course they're like,
we gotta look through all the security footage and see
exactly what happened. So they figured out that he got
on the train four hours before they found him. At
(36:11):
some point during this he passed away, and then after
he was dead, somebody not only robbed him, but then
another person sexually assaulted his dead body. And so now
they have to try to find these two separate people
that went after a corpse on the train.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
What's happening in New York right now?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Tom, Like, seriously, you couldn't put that as a script
in a movie.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I really it's happening. But listen, there's wing nuts out there.
It's just wild, weird people out there that have no guardrails,
no bounds, no mental acuity, no, just this is what
I'm doing. That's it.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Is it about the subway. It's the subway that's like
it tracks, it seems.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah, because the New York City subway is is just
a horror movie. Why you know, it's it's escaped from
New York. It's a horror movie. And that's what it is.
And the most unfortunate part of what I just said,
ninety percent of people that are in the subway are
a good, hard working people just trying to get to work.
(37:22):
But you're surrounded by this just dwellers of whatever they are,
and you just explained two of them. The robbery part,
I get that's happened many times, either people sleeping or
you know, dead. I haven't heard of that often. But
people sleeping getting robbed was endless. That happened all the time.
(37:43):
That was a I mean, unless you were a half
I mean out of your mind. You didn't fall asleep,
you didn't close your eyesen to win. That was a rule,
you know, but people did because of working later or
whatever it might be. But robberies that happened with people
sleeping was an ongoing thing.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
She's probably so skewed out because she probably thought the
dude was sleeping and like in felt his pockets and stuff.
And now she's like, oh my god, he was dead.
I touched a dead person. It's a wild assumption that
that person even cares if the person was dead or alive.
If they're gonna just like pickpocket somebody on the train. Yeah,
that's no level compared to putting this other guy took
(38:21):
his body out of the seat and put him on
the floor and had sex with him.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Like, what is happened?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I really can't imagine being the person reviewing this security footage.
You're like, okay, we already have to figure out if
this person died, and now you are like, okay, you
got robbed. That's horrible, And then you see the worst
thing you could possibly imagine.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
I'm putting myself in the detective's shoes for a minute
of wait a minute, what rewind? Hold on? You know,
go back as far as you can, and then seeing
that and you know, again, are you shocked? No? You
probably you're probably more laughing than shot because of just
(39:02):
what you're witnessing. But when you go back and look
at at video surveillances, there's so much other stuff you see.
I mean, you see other crimes being committed, which is
always interesting. You're focusing on one thing and then across
the street you see like a shooting, like, oh wait
a minute, there, that happened too. So when it comes
to just videos, anything's possible. But that story in the
(39:26):
New York City subway system, it's just another story.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
So would they come.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Let I just want to know the procedure, just because
I'm interested though. So somebody will called nine one one
and say they found a dead body, and I know
they'll send like EMS, even though the guy's clearly dead
and all this stuff. So they'll send someone like you
as a detective and say, here's the surveillance footage, and
do you actually have to go to the subway and
look at it or they give you some kind of
(39:54):
tape that you could view in your office.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
It depends on the system. Uh, And that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
They'll call nine one one EMS and the patrol guys
will show up. They'll establish that he's dead. EMS will
just say he's dead. You need the corner to come
to officially say he's dead, but EMS can can kind
of let you know. Then you would start because it's
a unusual circumstance, So you would start somewhat making a
crime scene and roping some things off some a part
(40:24):
of the platform, the car obviously that he was found in.
And then the surveillance part of it is going to
be up to the system that you have. Is it
can it be transferred to a CD or DVD? You
know that you could bring it with you to look at.
Do you have to watch it in their system? All that,
But you would have a starting point you kind of
(40:44):
work backwards, Okay, there he is dead, and then you
would just kind of rewind it to a point of
maybe seeing him come on. But then you go even
further than that nicole of where did he start walking from?
Did anyone follow him? You know, So you can't just say,
all right, he's dead. There's a reason for it. And
until the autopsy's done, like you know, and is a
(41:07):
confirmed cause of death, you have to assume there's a
crime committee. So you're going to keep backing up that
video and even get additional videos from the street of
like I said, did he have a problem with anyone
on the street? Did anyone follow him into the car?
Was any of that happening? So there's a lot to
do when it comes to piecing surveillance videos together from
(41:31):
a starting point to the end of it.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
So this guy is They found out that the victims
thirty seven years old, and he was he's married and
he has kids, but he had in a strange wife
because apparently he was an alcoholic. But he was here
from Mexico working and they know that he had orrhosis
at least from being an alcoholic. They did the autopsy
and they don't know exactly how he died right now,
(41:57):
which to me means they didn't see anything grow with
their naked eye that determined like, Okay, hey, he had
a pulmonary embolism and drop dead, because I mean, if
you have cirrhosis and you're in ED and stage liver disease,
you're not like walking on a train and dying on
the train. It just doesn't like make you drop dead
(42:17):
like that kind of So they're trying to figure out
what happened. And he has this history of alcohol abuse,
so he could potentially be into drugs now or something.
I don't know what they're gonna say, but they're saying
that they don't know. Obviously, they're going to document that
there was post mortem sexual assault, which is terrible. But
they'll also be able to get DNA from that, hopefully
(42:39):
and find this guy because I don't they've showed a
clearer picture of him, Like I feel like they kind
of might know who he is, but I'm not sure
as of right now that as of recording that they've
found who it is.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
No, I don't think.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
So. It's just so freaking disturbing, you know, And you're right,
nothing shocks you because I would have sworn the worst
thing that could ever happen was the guy that lit
the lady on fire who was alive a couple of
months ago, And you're just it's just like weird that
people are sitting around like how could I one up
that or something?
Speaker 3 (43:11):
It's so nuts.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Yeah, good, No, I was just gonna say, this kind
of reminds me of this video we had in the
Gross Room where this woman had got a detection alert
in her backyard that somebody was there, and she was
checking her ring footage and saw that a man went
into her driveway and started using a cucumber to you know,
(43:33):
in the grill of her car and was like bent
over in front of it. And this is what she's
watching like in her ring camera, and I'm just like,
how many other horrific things like this are we just
catching on camera when we're looking for something else?
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yeah, that's what I said. You know that happens a
lot where you think it's one thing and then you
start watching it and it's something completely different, you know.
But there's so many stories that are out there, and
the subways are hard. You know, it's going through a
rough time. And this reminds me of you know, the
(44:08):
seventies and the eighties where you could not go on
the subway. You just didn't ride the subway because of
what was going on down there. But you have you know,
the mental health issue for people who are homeless or
whoever it may be, is an issue in New York.
And you know, you have people lit on fire, you
got people getting pushed in front of trains that are
(44:30):
just standing there. It's horrible, and every story is horrible,
and like you said, the next one's going to be horrible,
and one after that's going to be horrible, and you
just hope it gets to a point where it stops
or slows down or something, because, like I said before,
ninety plus percent of the people in the subway or
all good people you know, going to work, going out
(44:52):
to eat, go to a show, you know, whatever it
might be that have to encounter the stuff.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
So speaking of mental health, because that will bring us
to our last story that we wanted to talk about
with you today is this arson that happened at Governor
Shapiro's mansion in the governor's mansion in Pennsylvania. And I
guess the guy who got caught with this was dealing
with some mental health issues as well. I don't understand
(45:19):
how this person got access to the property so easily.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
First thing I said, I mean me being in the
profession that I'm in or was in. That was the
very first thing. Not that he lit a fire, not
that the governor had to get out of there. Howd
he get in exactly any scale offense with the security
team there get into the house. So I don't know,
and I have no answer for that, and that I have.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
A suspicion it's because the people that were watching it
were on their phones, I'm sure of it. Like are
there rules that if you I mean, I guess it's
a private security probably, but are there because I swear ye,
Like I drive around all the time, and sometimes I
see cops pulled over at the side of the road
for whatever they're doing, and they're like looking down in
their lap at a phone, and I'm just like really like,
(46:09):
it's and this is not just cops, this is everybody
in the world. It's everybody's checked out, you know.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know who the security
team was, whether it's the Jersey State Police, which are
like in New York, the New York State Police have
the security detail for the governor. I don't know if
that's the same thing in Pennsylvania. Uh, if they're involved
ors it's a private company, but you know, you just
they should have when you when you're dealing with protection
(46:39):
of principles of that high level governors, the president, all
of that, there's a zero failure mission. You can't fail.
You can't not get something. You can't allow what happened
to happen. You know, I don't care who it is,
whether you like them or not, you can't have that
occur because that breaks down the system of who you know,
(47:00):
what other things are going on that people aren't being
protected that need to be protected. Then it also what
it does is you start the copycats. He got away
with it. Let me try, you know, and someone might
come through and actually succeed in what they wanted to do,
and that's when you get into real big problems.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Oh yeah, it's it's weird because I was looking up
I just was curious about the house, like what it
looked like, and it's twenty nine thousand square feet, so
that's it's huge. Twenty nine thousands, he said, twenty nine
thousand square feet. I don't know if that was the
whole property, because.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
It's a house in Seede.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
It does.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
It does seem insane, but I don't know, because there's
like a museum and shit in there, like people could
go visit. There's tours, they have like artifacts on the
first Florence of So I don't know, maybe it's the
whole property whatever. But regardless, I was looking it up
and it had the address and directions. It's just like
very easy for someone to go there, so you would
(48:02):
think that it was it was like hard to get
into if if you're just telling people how to get there,
it's very easily. I mean they even have things how
to get here from this highway in this highway. They're
just like, hey, come over, tours, come look at this,
Come look at that. It's just it's just like, I
don't know, it's it's just nuts. But the so the guy.
(48:24):
So this is something I wanted to ask you because
as soon as I heard about this happening on the news,
I was on X or Twitter or whatever, and and
I'm seeing pictures of the guy who did it and
his social media accounts and put and pit screenshots of
his posts that he was making. And I didn't hear
that guy's name for for a very long time on
(48:47):
the news. So what do you feel about all of
these sleuths, internet sluice like looking up all of this
information and posting it, Like, how does that affect your
investigation and stuff when people are like and stuff out
there that you don't you don't want out there yet, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
That becomes a big problem. And thankfully when I was
doing all that, none of this was around, you know.
And it's more, you know, this day and age with
with private salutes, which listen, if I know a few
you know that that have access to things, because listen,
they don't. They're not binded by the rules that we are,
(49:26):
you know, they can have access to someone knock on
the door, and these people who are telling them information, no,
they're not talking to the police. So it's a different conversation. Uh,
you know, the ability to just show up and walk around.
We have our tours that we do and when we work,
they don't.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
And the access and the I guess talent, I'll give
it to them. The talent that they have investigating these
things are incredible. Of what they think of and how
they access this information is why. But you know, one
of the conversations I had with one young woman who
(50:04):
does it is see she had a thing that if
she found anything, she'd be in touch with the police.
And I think that's important, you know, go out and
check out anything, because here I've said this on so
many shows that the police can't be everywhere, but the
public can. And if you have someone that's all into
it and is doing some digging and find some good stuf,
(50:26):
do it. I don't care who you are. If I
get to lock someone up in some someone else help, great,
that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
You know.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
So that's where I think detectives can play a role
with some of these you know, salutes that are going
out there and have kind of that relationship with them.
When you get into you get into a murky waters
when it's a ongoing case. So what I mean by
(50:52):
that is, let's say serial killer, or someone's missing or or.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Like Brian Koberger or something right, and you get that
up in a second.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
And you get information that might be contradicting you know
what you're looking at. That's when it gets a little nutty.
And that's when detectives and police departments get annoyed because
especially listen, there's things with investigations, especially when it comes
to you know we just brought up before, like Night
Soccer or Scott Peterson. There's so many times that the
(51:25):
police have information but will never put it out there
because it's going to impact that person's actions. Them getting
notified that they are a subject of the investigation or
anything like that, that's when it gets really bad because
that's going to make a dramatic impact on the investigation,
and that's what you never want as a detective.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
Well, I think, like you're saying, the really positive example
of this we've seen is like Michelle McNamara working with
the police to help solve the Golden State killer case.
But then we have the negative side of it with Coburger,
for example, why that TikToker had been accusing a professor
of killing the four kids, and now that person is
going after the TikToker because obviously we know that did
(52:09):
not happen at this point, where that professor is not
the leading suspect at this time, and you're essentially ruining
that person's life with allegations like that. So people are
really reckless with the information they post, sometimes.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
No doubt, and they lose the fact that you're not
you're not in the police department. You know, you're not
part of this. You're on your own and the information
you put out there is going to come back to you,
you know. So listen, you want to post stuff, you
damn well better be right and you know, get either
authorization or corroboration of it or whatever. But you know
(52:45):
it's your responsibility if you're going to go out there
saying stuff and pinpointing people's names and what they did.
That is so dangerous on every level.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
That's been agree I think it drives people nuts when
they because I know for me, like especially when the
Brian Coberger thing happened, it's like it happened right before Thanksgiving, right,
and we didn't find out until New Year's Eve. Around
New Year's Eve time, all that time passed and then
people are just like, what's going on?
Speaker 3 (53:15):
We need to know?
Speaker 2 (53:16):
The public wants to hear, like and I don't even
live around there, so it doesn't affect me at all,
but I just want to know because I'm curious, you know,
cause you're nosy, because I'm nosy. But like people start
getting Nancy because they think that the police department is
not doing a good job when they were the whole time.
They just were like keeping their mouths up like you
were saying, Tom, like the guy was on the loose
(53:37):
still and they were trying to get him. But that's
what makes people start, Like I mean, there were just
like RANDO influencers just showing up in Moscow, Idaho, and like,
I mean, Nancy was posted up on the folding table
in front of the house for like a week. So yeah,
but at least she she does this as a living
(53:59):
Like it's I'm just saying, like, just people, It's just
crazy how like people are becoming Internet detectives like that, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Why why social media? Yeah you have these you know,
you had a Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys when
we were kids and it was a TV show. You
didn't have this because you know a lot of people unfortunately.
You know, some are into it and it's a it's
a kind of passion they have or hobby or whatever,
which is fine. But there's other people out there that
(54:28):
want views and they want clicks, and they want this
and that, and that's where it becomes a problem with
showing up to scenes and talking to people maybe you
shouldn't be talking to. You know, it's all about that
that wow factor on social media, and that's when you
know things can go wrong real quick. And investigations listen,
the smallest detail kids spinning investigation on its head and
(54:52):
either naked or ruin it in a blink of an eye.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
Yeah, I know that's true. Jeez.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
There's Internet is just like the best and worst thing ever.
Say that every day.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
All right.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
We want to know, like where could everybody reach you?
Obviously the gold Shields Podcast. Do you have social media
that you do that you want to show up?
Speaker 1 (55:15):
We just said yes, we have our YouTube channel which
is YouTube dot com slash at gold Shields. All our
shows are on there. Instagram, at the gold Shield Show,
our website, Thegoldshield Show dot com, and every audio channel
you can think of. We're on some that we don't
(55:35):
even know we're on, which is always fun to get
that email of hey you reached this amount. We're like, okay, cool,
well thank you, but it's just it's a great ride,
and thank you so much for letting me do that,
because that's what this is all about, just trying to
entertain more and more people and get some some cool
stories out to them. So that's all our contacts, and
(55:57):
give us a shout, follow us, subscribe to all that
good stuff, and.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
We'll forgive your Yankees hat on today's episode, because don't
believe we'd never allow that.
Speaker 3 (56:07):
Well if if it was.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
It's so funny because when I came home from our dinner,
I was telling Gabe about you, and I was just like, well, listen,
like the good news is at least he's a Yankees
fan and he's not a Mets fan. And then Gabe's like, yeah,
I saw his hat, Like he just noted. He just
like like zones in on things like that. But yeah,
as long as you're if it was a Mets hat,
we might have had to have a conversation with you
(56:32):
before we got on.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
But I don't think in my lifetime, I don't think
I've ever wore a mat hat. So you don't have
to worry about that.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
You have to come with you and your wife have
to come to a game with us, because I saw
that we're playing the Yankees a couple of times coming
up this summer, so we should all get together and
have like a night at the stadium.
Speaker 3 (56:49):
That can come up there too. Whatever you want to.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
Do, that's easy, let's set it up.
Speaker 2 (56:53):
All right, awesome, all right, cool, all right, guys, Well,
thank you so much, Thank you so much time for
coming on this show.
Speaker 3 (57:00):
This was such a fun conversation. Don't forget. This is
the last day to enter for.
Speaker 2 (57:05):
The one million download giveaway, and we're going to announce
the winners next week. Thank you for listening to Mother
Knows Death. As a reminder, my training is as a
pathologist's assistant. I have a master's level education and specialize
in anatomy and pathology education. I am not a doctor,
(57:27):
and I have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead or
alive without the assistance of a licensed medical doctor. This show,
my website and social media accounts are designed to educate
and inform people based on my experience working in pathology,
so they can make healthier decisions regarding their life and
(57:47):
well being. Always remember that science is changing every day
and the opinions expressed in this episode are based on
my knowledge of those subjects at the time of publication.
If you are having a medical price problem, have a
medical question, or having a medical emergency, please contact your
physician or visit an urgent care center, emergency room.
Speaker 3 (58:09):
Or hospital.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
or anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks
Mother Knows Death starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Everyone Welcome The Mother Knows Death. On today's episode, we
have a very special guest, Tom Smith, who is a
retired NYPD police detective and one of the co hosts
of the gold Shields podcasts. Today, we're going to do
some news stories with Tom and ask them all of
the police questions that we're dying to know with the
latest news stories like Weezer's bassist wife being involved in
(00:43):
a police shootout, a baby being mauled to death by
their family dog, a case of necrophilia yes in a
New York City subway, and the arsonist at Governor Shapiro's mansion.
All that and more on today's episode. Him, thanks so
much for being here today.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Oh my god, talk about waiting for a show to do.
We scheduled this and ever since then, especially after we
did hours, it's been a all right, three more days,
two more days, it's tomorrow. So I'm thrilled to be
here and thank you so much for having me. And
this is gonna be cool.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So why don't you tell everyone what the podcast is about,
because we did tell our listeners to listen to our episode.
We'll listen to them all the time, but listen especially
to Maria and I's episode that was on last week.
But tell everybody a little bit about what you guys
are doing on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
So what we do is Dan and I are both
retired NYPD detectives who did combine fifty years in the NYPD.
Dan was my sergeant and partner in a couple of
different details that we were on together, and what we
wanted to do was get these stories out there that
people might not might know about but not really know about,
(01:58):
and these high profile cases and military missions, but get
a kind of backstory to them. So what we did
is we have the guests on who actually did them,
the detectives, the Seal Team six operators, victims of crimes,
to tell their own story about what happened with the case.
And a lot of times the feedback we get is, wow,
(02:20):
I knew about the case, but I didn't know that well,
I didn't know that much about it, which is the
point of it. That's what we want to do. And
Dan and I were very intent on not telling someone
else's story, you know, let the person who went through
it and did it tell their own story, and that's
basically what it is. You know, we all get kind
of pigeonholed into a genre and true crime we are,
(02:45):
but I always like to tell everyone we're more of
a true story podcast than that because of the stories
we hear blow our mind a lot with what we
hear because we don't have a script, you know, we
just kind to have conversations and a lot of the
information coming about these cases we never heard about. So
(03:06):
the reactions are pretty authentic with with Dan and I
being blown away sometimes. So it's been a great ride
and we just love doing it. Well.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
We commonly find when we're looking up news stories that
maybe one news source like NBC writes something and basically
every other news source just copies what they wrote essentially.
So I could see that you would want to get
stories from other people because they're not really digging much
deeper on a lot of these cases.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Right They're they're satisfied with with the oh wow headline
or you know, the the dramatic, you know, just face
story of what it is, but don't go into why
it is and what happened and the particular is about it,
which are more interesting than just a headline. Uh, and
that's what we wanted to do with it. You know,
(03:54):
we got all the time comments of you know, I
knew about that military mission because I read about it whatever,
but had no idea about a B and C. And
that's the point of it. And that's what, you know,
we keep hearing that. That's what keeps driving us to
get more of these stories out there.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
So what are some of the high profile cases that
you've covered and had interviews?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Oh? Boy, we did the Scott Peterson case. We had
the detective who actually locked Scott Peterson up, so we
talked about that. The Oh god, Ted Bundy's a victim
of a victim of Ted Bundy. Kathy Kleine Rubin who
(04:37):
survived an attacked by Ted Bundy, who had her on
the night Stalker, you know, Gil Carrera who locked him up,
was on it. That was a chilling episode of hearing
the integral parts of going after a serial killer. You know,
we read about him, we see movies on it, but
to get a first hand account of how to do
(05:01):
it was a great episode. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
And I just listened to Your Vegas Shooter episode two,
and I think that's the case. You know, I was
all over watching the news, but hearing your Guys episode
and just the first person point of view about what
went down that day, it just so much more compelling,
like we're talking about, than reading it just online or
seeing it covered on TV, because you just really have
(05:25):
no idea what it's like unless you're there, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Josh was amazing. That was, you know, one of those
that Dan and I just shut up and just let
Josh talk and tell the story. And that was one
of those, you know that you remember recently, you know,
the other ones were a few years ago, and that
one's still fresh in everyone's mind. So to hear that
reaction and we've all been there, you know. And I
(05:49):
think I said it in the show Maria that you know, cops,
you could be sitting around doing nothing, laughing, joking, and
thirty seconds later, the world is ending and that's police work.
And that's what Josh kind of put out there of
training with the dogs and you got uniform shirt off
and it's a nice day and then all of a sudden,
it looks like armageddon.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, and I believe you made a really good point
on that episode too, or maybe it was at our
dinner last week, but you had said something along the
lines of, like, these things sometimes happen to somebody, These
traumatic things only occur to people one time, But for
police officers in particular, this is just another day at work.
And sometimes they have won two, three scenes this traumatic
in a day. And I can't imagine how hard that is.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
To process, right, you know, the average person will have
three to four, maybe five traumatic events in their lifetime.
I could literally have you know, ten in a night,
you know, when I was on patrol, you know, just
constantly going to nine one one calls and tragedies and
all that. You could literally, you know, just have that
(06:54):
number in one tour in one night and add that
up over a career. And that's why you know, this
job is so demanding, both physically and mentally.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, at it's cool because I mean when you think
about being a new working in New York and being
a detective there, most people would be exposed to a
lot of crazy shit there, Like just because like one
of the stories we're going to talk about today is
just enough to be like, Okay, these people are seeing
some crazy stuff. But even smaller departments, like they never
(07:27):
know what they're going to come across either, So it's
cool that you're interviewing people from all over to just
get this different perspectives on where they're working and what
the population's like and how populated it is. Like Vegas,
for example, has a lot of tourists where and New
York does too, but where I live, Like, no, that's
(07:48):
not even a thing on their mind. So it's just
cool to get a perspective from all different law enforcement officers.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, you know, when we started and we first put
it out there, a lot of people were under the
impression that we would just do in and YPD stories
just because of the name of the show and where
Dan and I are from, and we were like, not
even close. I mean, in one hundred and fifteen shows
that we've done, we've maybe done four at WHITEPD shows.
And that just goes to your example and Nicole, that
(08:17):
the stories of great investigations and traumatic events and all
that are all over the country, and we've had so
many with like you said, small towns or smaller police
departments that you know, these heroic events happen with cops
getting shot and or saving lives or all that, and
that's what we wanted to do. We wanted to make
(08:39):
it a nationwide and worldwide show. And luckily we are
so far.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So all right, So saying talking about getting shot, this
is good for our first story because this is a
super bizarre one that came out this week. Do you Ray,
do you want to get into it?
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So Jilly and Lauren Schriner, who is the wife of
Weezer's Basis Scotch, she was in this incredibly strange situation
last week where she ended up getting in this police shootout.
I mean, the details of this story are just so bizarre.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
So she wasn't.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Involved at all, and I guess the person that was
accused of doing a hit and run had just ran
away from the scene and went into one of her neighbor's.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yards or something.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, it appears there was some sort of police you know,
chase going on from a hit and run incident, and
these suspects had ended up in her neighborhood and by
the time the police got there, they found her with
a nine millimeter on her porch and they had said
to her multiple times, please put your gun down, and then,
according to the police, she shot at them and then
they shot at her. She ended up getting shot in
(09:46):
the shoulder but it's all over the place with what
actually went down and why was she even involved in
this in the first place. I am thinking, like, if
I had a weapon and the police officer was telling
me to put it down, of course I would. But
she he's saying, she was defending her home, and I
don't really know what was going on there.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, that was a bizarre story to read about and
do some checking on. And what it seems that happened was,
you know, she had a gun in the house and
she's protecting herself and probably just heard someone in the
backyard walking around, went out to take a look, and
the worst case scenario happens. It's at night. She probably
(10:28):
couldn't see who it was. She doesn't trust someone just
yelling the police and without surveying what's going on and
taking a second, you know, just starts shooting. And the
police are in that area looking for I think a
carjack or something to that effect. So they were already
amped up looking for someone that might have a weapon.
(10:50):
Now someone pops up in front of you with a
weapon and starts shooting it you. So that's the worst
case scenario you can think of, And you know what
she's lucky she's still live, you know, with what could
have happened. But that's scary situations when you run into
people who are armed, whether they have a permit or not,
(11:10):
and they're defending their home or whatever. But the biggest
part is, no matter what permit you have, you're usually
not trained enough to deal with this situation like that
of how to do it, how to talk, how to
recognize police officers, you know, and all that. So I
think that also played a contributing factory to what happened.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So I have a question in je because I think
about this often when you hear about people who are
carrying I personally feel like I know all the steps
that you have to go through. It are pretty vigorous.
A person that's concealed carry like legit permit and everything.
As a law enforcement officer, do you feel better knowing
(11:56):
that there's people that are armed around that could potentially
help you guys in a situation or do you hate
the fact that regular people are carrying weapons?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Listen, I firmly believe that everyone should have the right
to do it obviously, you know, and protect yourself and
your family and all that. But I think the level
of training that needs to be done has to be
ramped up, because you know you're talking about you. You
can be twenty one years old and get a permit
and go to a training session and take a couple
(12:30):
of shots at a paper target and get a permit
and have a gun. I've had conversations with people of
do you understand what goes with that permit? Yeah, it
gets carrie gun. No, you could potentially kill someone. I
don't want that. No, that's part of it, you know.
And they don't. They think it's kind of cool that
(12:50):
they can have a gun and carry it and protect themselves,
but don't understand what can happen, you know, and what
could very easily happen going down the line. And when
I start having conversations with people like that, they freak
out of wait, I didn't sign up for that. I
don't want to kill anyone, okay, but you may have to,
(13:10):
you know, And that parallel of yeah, that's reality, you know,
it kind of hits people hard sometimes.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Is it weird that people like I would just assume
if you're getting a gun, that's what you're getting it for, Like,
what else are you using it for? To scare somebody?
Because that's definitely a terrible idea.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
It's a horrible idea. And that's where you get into,
you know, the mindsets of people of you know, is
it fashionable, it's cool I have when listen, that's a
mindset unfortunately in this world today. Yeah, it's cool to
have a gun, you know, but they're not taking that
extra step of the responsibility of it and the ramifications
of that responsibility. If you happen to screw up, just
(13:51):
because you have a permit doesn't mean you can't be
wrong and you can't go to jail. And people think
that is, well, well, it's not an illegal gun, yeah,
but your actions can be. And that's what people lose
sometimes when it comes to arming themselves.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, and I feel like in this case, I mean,
she's now she got arrested for attempted murder, so I
guess she actually took shots at the officers.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, And that's what I mean, you know, the misidentification
of police officers who were yelling at her with a
police with the police, whether they were in plain clothes,
I don't know what they were dressed like, if they
had their uniforms on, if they had a identifying markings
on them. You know, I don't know at that point,
but you know, that's part of the training of it,
(14:33):
of taking that second to survey a situation and to
you know, understand if they're a cop, you know, they
control the scene, not you. They're they're in charge, and
you're the one, the civilian with the guns. So I
think the communications broke down and trusting who was in
(14:53):
her backyard is part of the problem as well, and that,
like I said, is a worst case scenario that's nightmare
for both parties, for both parties to be involved in.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, I mean that could have turned ugly, right, Yeah, Well,
I saw that she had just had a hysterectomy recently,
and she had been treating being treated for cancer. So
do you think there was I don't know. I'm just
trying to think of all possible situations. What that her
ovaries got taken out and she went nuts. Well no, no,
I'm not saying about the hysterectomy. But do you think
(15:25):
because of the combination of having treatment for cancer and
having the surgery there was some type of brain fog
that could have affected her decision making? I mean, I
don't really, I don't know. I'm asking you as a
medical person, if that's a possibility, I mean she had
the surgery over a month ago, I would say I
would say no, Like what Tom just said with the
(15:45):
with the officers potentially wearing street clothes, I mean, think
about that, Like if I'm just thinking about looking at
my own backyard, if there's a bunch of guys wearing
normal clothes carrying guns in my yard, I'm gonna be like,
on hi alert, Are you gonna do that at them?
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Well, I don't have a gun.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
But if I but if finds it for reasons like this,
because I don't think I would make the right decision
in that time, but but for real, like that would
I would be on high alert. I definitely would call
nine on one and like, but but there's people on
my street that might have a gun that might do
something you don't understand.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Like I say that that would freak her out.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Do you think it's also possible she misfired because most
times people have such horrible trigger discipline when they're holding
a gun, And I feel like that's an incredible possibility
that she was scared she was holding it and slipped.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Sure that that goes with what I said before with training,
and it shouldn't be You shouldn't be one time like
all right, I'm gonna go get trained because I'm getting
my permit. It should be a two, three times a year,
you know, training session that you should be on because
those scenario can happen, maybe not to that extreme, but
(17:03):
being on the street and Nicole, you bring up a
great point with plain clothes officers and I worked in there.
You know, I was in an anti crime union playing
clothes and got surrounded by you know, three radio cars,
you know NYPD cars thinking we were a robbery team.
You know that happens, and it's scary, uh, not to
mention just being a civilian and seeing people walking through
(17:24):
your backyard. But you came up with a great point too,
you know, run inside, locked the door, called nine one one, Hey,
there's people in my backyard saying they're cops, and that
nine one one operator is going, yes they are. They're
looking for a B and C. So that's another avenue
she could have went down. But the stress of it,
you know, clouds people's judgments sometimes and reaction, so I
(17:45):
think that had something to do with it as well.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Do you also see this little interesting tidbit that she
was just gonna say this with this serial killer Samuel Little.
She she I think she owns his or not owns his,
but I think she acquired his career reins after he
died in twenty twenty. But she had been making this
documentary about Samuel Little. And the way these articles are
reading is that it was supposed to highlight, you know,
(18:09):
the victims and be to their benefit. But then this
woman ended up developing this really close friendship with him,
to the point where he put her as his next
of kin on his prison paperwork. It's very bizarre, but
I feel like I've never heard of this guy, and
apparently he's like one of the most prolific serial killers
in the United States.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yeah, have you heard of him?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
No? No? What were the circumstances of his case? Then?
Might be? I don't know his name, but the case.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
I believe he is convicted of killing at least eight
women in between nineteen seventy and I think they're early
two thousands. But then it came out later that he
admitted to killing up to ninety three victims.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
But the FABI.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Confirm the FBI confirmed fifty of the ninety three. Oh
my god.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So it's it's a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I just it's just kind of like, I'm like, oh,
why is this the first time I'm hearing about this?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I always really fall in love with you know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Right, definitely.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I also thought it was kind of strange that, you know,
she's getting charged with attempted murder I'm assuming of police officers,
and she got released on bond that night. I would
just think for that level of a charge that you
wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Well, welcome to the twenty twenty exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I could tell you ten cases this week of that happening. Really,
and her husband coach.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
That's the bad part. That doesn't even surprise me anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, you're just like whatever, like that's that's totally normal now,
all right. So here's a case that the next case
shouldn't surprise you either, because I feel like we talk
about it at least once a month on this podcast.
We don't even cover every story. But no, So this
happened in Alabama. This couple had brought their four year
old to the hospital after he accidentally shot himself with
(19:58):
a weapon in the house.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
So then police go to search the home.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Not only do they find all these unsecured weapons, but
they come across at least thirty snakes, some alive, some dead,
covered in maggots, boxes of mice, and a crocodile in them.
So this is something we talk about on this show
all the time, is like, what is it like to
just be a cop and walk into the house not
(20:22):
knowing what to expect because you probably just live in
a normal house that has just like furniture and stuff
like that, and then you just go into these abnormal
living situations.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Oh that was you know, any apartment that you would
go into in the city held you breath because anything
could happen. You know. I read this article and I
remembered we did. We took a case down in the
Bronx in narcotics, so, you know, a couple of different streets,
a bunch of people arrested with this one crew, and
(20:53):
one of them had an alligator in the bethtub when
we did the warrant, you know, and we're all on
the street and we hearing, you know, what's going on,
and you're thinking it's a joke, and it wasn't. In
the Bronx an alligator in the bethtub, you know, but
other situations. I mean walking in and just seeing weird stuff,
(21:16):
you know, shrines of a lot of different things that
would be in certain rooms and all that. But you
have to be you know that. That's one of the
things about working in a big city, especially a city
like New York where anything is possible. You have to
be ready for every situation or every weird thing that
(21:38):
could happen walking into an apartment.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
So Gabe's friends with an older, retired fd M I guy,
and he showed me a picture once and it's just
an apartment building, right, and Gabe's just like just zoom
in on the window, and there's a freaking tiger, like
a tiger you would see at the zoo in an
apartment in New York City. Just like it's so outrageous
(22:01):
to think that you guys would ever encounter something like that.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
It's just so wild.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yep, and a lot of us, you know, like I
just said, I'll say it calmly, because it's like it's
New York. There's nothing surprising anymore. And you get to
a point in your career that nothing surprises you. Yea
very rarely would you go, oh my god, that happened. No,
it's you would just like kind of shrug it, like yeah, okay,
(22:30):
that makes sense. So you gotta be ready.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
What do you do in that case?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
You have to call animal control to secure it before
further pursuing the scene.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, the first thing is to close the door and
get out.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I was gonna say, like, do any of your guys
like really freak out and just say, like, you know,
like some I know some guys that just have irrational
fears of animals, Like one of our friends is like
scared a death of sharks.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Like you really could just like.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Avoid that, Like I'm not going in there, no way,
you know, like a spider thing or whatever.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Like that's where I draw the line. I'm not doing that.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Oh yeah, it could be anything. I mean, I know
numerous cops are scattered dogs, you know, and that creates
a problem when that happens. You know, So the fear
of something, you know, the first thing is just get out.
You know, whether it's an alligator or a tiger, or
you know, an eagle flying around an apartment, you know,
all weird stuff like that that.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Sounds a little specifics.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Is just get out, close the door, and call like
animal control or you know there's times that you look
around at each other and be like, who do we call?
Like is there a tiger removal department in New York City?
But you know, an animal control of some sort would
come and take care of it.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
So the main part of this story, which should be
the most shocking, which isn't, is that a kid shot
himself with with a gun that was laying around. Is
that something that you encountered through your career? Do you
think it's getting worse because I feel like I hear
it a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, you know, because there's there's so many guns out there.
I mean, there are, whether they legal or not. The
biggest thing about having a weapon in your house is
where it's stored and where it's locked up and who
has access to it. And a lot of people disregard
that and they just leave it out and kids end
(24:26):
up killing themselves the majority of the time are shooting
a friend because they think it's a toy, you know,
or something like that. And that is is usually the
case with this and those are the I mean, you
can't get more heartbreaking than that scenario, you know, either
one of those that I laid out and that does happen,
(24:47):
and it goes back to the parents' responsibility. You know,
the kid's a kid, you know, the parents responsibility or
lack of responsibility when having these weapons in a house
is tragic sometimes.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And this is kind of similar to our next story
in a way that parents having their child either seriously
injured or hurt and it's kind of their fault they
put the danger into the house. Like, I don't even
know how you live with yourself after something like that.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Right, Well, that decision, that perfect point, Nicole, that that
scenario should be played out before you bring a weapon
in the house. You know, play out that what if
what if he gets it? What if something goes wrong?
You know, and people don't. They just take it for
granted that, oh it'll be all right. You know, he's
not going to get it, or I hit it, you know,
(25:38):
I hit in the spot. Listen, we were all kids.
We find anything. Yeah, yeah, they ask us around Christmas
time we find anything, you know, if they if they
have a thought that that's in the house. Kids can
find anything and get into anything. So unless it is
a bolted down, you know, secure combination lock box, they're
(26:00):
gonna find it.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
You know, I think my kids are broken. I say
this at Christmas time. I keep their presence like unwrapped
in my office, just like hidden under a couch or something,
and they just don't even find it.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I'm so disappointed.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Never I'm just like, I had that shit unwrapped, looked
at it, re wrapped it, put it back in my
mom's closet. Well, last year we hit it behind the
curtain for the window. They don't but all the time,
or on the back porch. We'll just put it back there.
They take the trash out all the time, walk right
by the box, don't even notice it.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
You're just like, how is this? What kind of kids
are you?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
This episode is brought to you by The Grossroom. Guys,
the Grossroom is going on sale. It only goes on
sale a couple of times a year, and I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
For you to join if you're not already a member.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
We have some really awesome things coming up in this episode.
We're talking about that case in Neckrofe, So I thought
that this would be a perfect time to really dive
deep into this subject into the Gross Room because it
is a pretty interesting subject. We do have a couple
cases in their already real life cases, so it is
(27:15):
super disturbing, but we have lots of disturbing things. Also,
Easter is coming up this weekend, and we have a
post from last year a high profile death dissection talking
about the crucifixion and if it was medically possible to happen,
and we look at different forensics and proof of that happening.
So it's pretty interesting high profile death dissection.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
So check that out.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, head over to the gross room dot com now
to sign up for twenty dollars for one year of gross.
All right, so talk about this with the parents though,
because this next case, so this case and then the
next one we're talking about is not having a gun,
but having a dog that's known for eating children. So well,
(28:00):
we talk about this a lot with dogs attacking children,
especially with pit bulls, which is some of the greatest
criticism I guess we face is criticizing people for having
these dogs in the house with small children. But again,
this is a case of a seven month old baby
that was mauled to death by the family dog. They
had three pitbulls at the house, and when animal control
(28:21):
got there, they didn't know exactly which dog did it
at first, and they determine which dog did it now
that dog has to get euthanized, which isn't fair to
the baby that lost its life, isn't fair to the
dog that was just being an animal.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
And then the people that own the dog don't get
in the trouble. That's the weirdest part of it.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, I mean dogs. You know, when it comes to that,
you kind of different topics, differ different items, but sort
of the same thing. You know, you have a possible
deadly weapon, which is a dog right near your children,
and they can turn in a mint. They're animals, you know,
they can be trained. Oh, I love them, they sleep
(29:02):
with me, They're all this. But there's some animals that
just have this trigger and they just go off and
you can't map it out, you can't schedule it, you
can't see it coming, and it just happens. You know.
Moreover with this, when you have a history of these dogs,
you know, creating a problem is even more of an alert,
(29:24):
you know, to go out of maybe not have them
around the kids.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
So you're saying that sometimes there's officers that would be
scared of dogs. I personally would be too. As far
as if I'm going over a friend's house that I
know that the dog's well taken care of, and I
know what kind of environment they live in. I would
be like way more chill about it. But just going
into a stranger's house where you don't know how they're
(29:50):
training this dog or what's happening, like what what are
your officers do in that situation? I mean, I guess
they have a gun on them, so that's always helpful.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, you go first, that's you, that's in the hallway.
All right, go ahead, you go. I'll stay out here.
It's usually how it happens. But sometimes you don't know
that they are and they'll come out of a bedroom,
or they'll come at you know, out of another closet,
whatever it might be. So sometimes you're caught off guard
with with seeing them. When we would do search warrants,
(30:21):
you really didn't know. So we had a lieutenant that
would always do a search warrant with treats and dog
food in his pocket. We had it every search warrant
we did, just in case there was a dog there.
He throw them a bone and throw them a treat,
throw food in another room, whatever it was. Because listen,
(30:42):
no one, especially pitbulls, you do not want to get
bit by that and you don't want to listen. No
one wants to fire their weapon, whether it's at a
person or a dog, you don't want to do it.
So you just do everything you can to avoid that situation.
But sometimes it's unavoidable, and you know it's going to
be them, not you, because I've seen guys bit by
dogs and it is not cool, it's not pretty, it's
(31:04):
painful as hell, and you don't want to go through that.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
And what happens when you guys like obviously we talk
about such horrible stories on here, we have another one
coming up after this story of just officers seeing like
terrible shit. So they're gonna show up to this house.
And let's say, I mean most of these guys. I
know that Gabe has this issue, you know, when he
(31:31):
goes to fires that involve children, because it's like he
has kids.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
That age too.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
And you can't help but say, it's a similar situation
because you know kids that age right, And so if
you walk into a scene like that and you see
a baby that is the victim of being killed by
a pit bull, which could be so gruesome, how do
you deal with that with the officers? Do they have
(31:55):
any kind of assistance for them when they get back.
Do they have to go to some kind of therapy
or is that's something they just take home with them.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well, you would hope if it. Listen, people deal with
stresses and situations like that differently. Some guys and women
can handle it and just kind of put it in
the back of their head of part of the job
another day. But it adds up, and that's where it's not.
When it comes to the mental health issues of police
officers and talking to people, it's not one event. It's
(32:27):
always more and more and adding up. And that's when
you have to know and realize when it's time to
talk to someone unofficially, officially, whatever it might be. But
things in police departments and police officers boil to a
point that they can't take it anymore, that's when bad
things start to happen. That's when alcoholism starts, and suicide starts,
(32:51):
and domestic issues start. You know, when you get to
these events just boiling over because you didn't realize when
it was time to go talk to someone.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
So you started what year did you start being a cop?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Nineteen ninety So you've seen a huge change in that,
like a shift in the thinking of that, because we've
talked about that before that you used to have to
put on almost a front like nothing bothered you guys,
And now it's how do you feel about that being
more open? You think that, I mean, obviously that should
be better for most people.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Right, Oh, it's about time. I mean, you know, we
were we were of the age which was wrong, but
it was the time. It was of hey, you're a cop,
deal with it, you know, and that was it. It's
your job, you know. We used to hear that all
the time. And the problem at the time was the
ramifications of it. If you went to someone said I
have a problem, I have a mental health issue, whatever
(33:47):
it might be. Your gun was taken, your shield was taken.
You'll put on a midnight shift watching a parking lot.
I mean that's what it was. You weren't a cop anymore.
You weren't technically, but you weren't. And that's what worry
people in the police department of I don't want, you know,
that to happen to me. I love being a cop.
Just because I saw something one day, I'll just keep
(34:09):
it to myself. But like I said, we have so
many traumatic events that happen in just the course of
a day, it's going to get to a point where
you just can't take it anymore, and sometimes that's too late.
So I openly I'm thrilled that there's more mental health
(34:30):
issu you know, avenues out there that they can seek
help and talk to someone in different organizations that are
out there now other than when I was on, and
I just hope that they take advantage of it and
get that help, because sometimes all it takes is one
conversation and one this is what I went through. Hey
do this, call me back next week, and you know,
(34:53):
things can feel better. And you know, we do talk
about it on our show all the time, of the
organizations that we're involved in outreaching to departments to make
sure that everyone's okay.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, I'm really happy to hear that because a lot
of times people that work in this field don't have
someone to go home to and talk to about it,
and sometimes that's not even enough. So it is nice
to hear that at least they're offering those resources to
people now.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
So this next story that.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
We have involves not exactly a police officer walking in
with his own eyes or her own eyes and seeing
something horrific. But the talk of we talk about this
of looking over surveillance films, or sometimes we hear about
these horrible child pornography cases where police have to look
(35:48):
through people's phones and see this shit, which is disturbing. So, Maria,
do you want to talk about this next case? Yeah,
So police are contacted when the conductor of this R
train in New York City found this thirty seven year
old man who was dead. So of course they're like,
we gotta look through all the security footage and see
exactly what happened. So they figured out that he got
on the train four hours before they found him. At
(36:11):
some point during this he passed away, and then after
he was dead, somebody not only robbed him, but then
another person sexually assaulted his dead body. And so now
they have to try to find these two separate people
that went after a corpse on the train.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
What's happening in New York right now?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Tom, Like, seriously, you couldn't put that as a script
in a movie.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I really it's happening. But listen, there's wing nuts out there.
It's just wild, weird people out there that have no guardrails,
no bounds, no mental acuity, no, just this is what
I'm doing. That's it.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Is it about the subway. It's the subway that's like
it tracks, it seems.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah, because the New York City subway is is just
a horror movie. Why you know, it's it's escaped from
New York. It's a horror movie. And that's what it is.
And the most unfortunate part of what I just said,
ninety percent of people that are in the subway are
a good, hard working people just trying to get to work.
(37:22):
But you're surrounded by this just dwellers of whatever they are,
and you just explained two of them. The robbery part,
I get that's happened many times, either people sleeping or
you know, dead. I haven't heard of that often. But
people sleeping getting robbed was endless. That happened all the time.
(37:43):
That was a I mean, unless you were a half
I mean out of your mind. You didn't fall asleep,
you didn't close your eyesen to win. That was a rule,
you know, but people did because of working later or
whatever it might be. But robberies that happened with people
sleeping was an ongoing thing.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
She's probably so skewed out because she probably thought the
dude was sleeping and like in felt his pockets and stuff.
And now she's like, oh my god, he was dead.
I touched a dead person. It's a wild assumption that
that person even cares if the person was dead or alive.
If they're gonna just like pickpocket somebody on the train. Yeah,
that's no level compared to putting this other guy took
(38:21):
his body out of the seat and put him on
the floor and had sex with him.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Like, what is happened?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I really can't imagine being the person reviewing this security footage.
You're like, okay, we already have to figure out if
this person died, and now you are like, okay, you
got robbed. That's horrible, And then you see the worst
thing you could possibly imagine.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
I'm putting myself in the detective's shoes for a minute
of wait a minute, what rewind? Hold on? You know,
go back as far as you can, and then seeing
that and you know, again, are you shocked? No? You
probably you're probably more laughing than shot because of just
(39:02):
what you're witnessing. But when you go back and look
at at video surveillances, there's so much other stuff you see.
I mean, you see other crimes being committed, which is
always interesting. You're focusing on one thing and then across
the street you see like a shooting, like, oh wait
a minute, there, that happened too. So when it comes
to just videos, anything's possible. But that story in the
(39:26):
New York City subway system, it's just another story.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
So would they come.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Let I just want to know the procedure, just because
I'm interested though. So somebody will called nine one one
and say they found a dead body, and I know
they'll send like EMS, even though the guy's clearly dead
and all this stuff. So they'll send someone like you
as a detective and say, here's the surveillance footage, and
do you actually have to go to the subway and
look at it or they give you some kind of
(39:54):
tape that you could view in your office.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
It depends on the system. Uh, And that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
They'll call nine one one EMS and the patrol guys
will show up. They'll establish that he's dead. EMS will
just say he's dead. You need the corner to come
to officially say he's dead, but EMS can can kind
of let you know. Then you would start because it's
a unusual circumstance, So you would start somewhat making a
crime scene and roping some things off some a part
(40:24):
of the platform, the car obviously that he was found in.
And then the surveillance part of it is going to
be up to the system that you have. Is it
can it be transferred to a CD or DVD? You
know that you could bring it with you to look at.
Do you have to watch it in their system? All that,
But you would have a starting point you kind of
(40:44):
work backwards, Okay, there he is dead, and then you
would just kind of rewind it to a point of
maybe seeing him come on. But then you go even
further than that nicole of where did he start walking from?
Did anyone follow him? You know, So you can't just say,
all right, he's dead. There's a reason for it. And
until the autopsy's done, like you know, and is a
(41:07):
confirmed cause of death, you have to assume there's a
crime committee. So you're going to keep backing up that
video and even get additional videos from the street of
like I said, did he have a problem with anyone
on the street? Did anyone follow him into the car?
Was any of that happening? So there's a lot to
do when it comes to piecing surveillance videos together from
(41:31):
a starting point to the end of it.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
So this guy is They found out that the victims
thirty seven years old, and he was he's married and
he has kids, but he had in a strange wife
because apparently he was an alcoholic. But he was here
from Mexico working and they know that he had orrhosis
at least from being an alcoholic. They did the autopsy
and they don't know exactly how he died right now,
(41:57):
which to me means they didn't see anything grow with
their naked eye that determined like, Okay, hey, he had
a pulmonary embolism and drop dead, because I mean, if
you have cirrhosis and you're in ED and stage liver disease,
you're not like walking on a train and dying on
the train. It just doesn't like make you drop dead
(42:17):
like that kind of So they're trying to figure out
what happened. And he has this history of alcohol abuse,
so he could potentially be into drugs now or something.
I don't know what they're gonna say, but they're saying
that they don't know. Obviously, they're going to document that
there was post mortem sexual assault, which is terrible. But
they'll also be able to get DNA from that, hopefully
(42:39):
and find this guy because I don't they've showed a
clearer picture of him, Like I feel like they kind
of might know who he is, but I'm not sure
as of right now that as of recording that they've
found who it is.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
No, I don't think.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
So. It's just so freaking disturbing, you know, And you're right,
nothing shocks you because I would have sworn the worst
thing that could ever happen was the guy that lit
the lady on fire who was alive a couple of
months ago, And you're just it's just like weird that
people are sitting around like how could I one up
that or something?
Speaker 3 (43:11):
It's so nuts.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Yeah, good, No, I was just gonna say, this kind
of reminds me of this video we had in the
Gross Room where this woman had got a detection alert
in her backyard that somebody was there, and she was
checking her ring footage and saw that a man went
into her driveway and started using a cucumber to you know,
(43:33):
in the grill of her car and was like bent
over in front of it. And this is what she's
watching like in her ring camera, and I'm just like,
how many other horrific things like this are we just
catching on camera when we're looking for something else?
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yeah, that's what I said. You know that happens a
lot where you think it's one thing and then you
start watching it and it's something completely different, you know.
But there's so many stories that are out there, and
the subways are hard. You know, it's going through a
rough time. And this reminds me of you know, the
(44:08):
seventies and the eighties where you could not go on
the subway. You just didn't ride the subway because of
what was going on down there. But you have you know,
the mental health issue for people who are homeless or
whoever it may be, is an issue in New York.
And you know, you have people lit on fire, you
got people getting pushed in front of trains that are
(44:30):
just standing there. It's horrible, and every story is horrible,
and like you said, the next one's going to be horrible,
and one after that's going to be horrible, and you
just hope it gets to a point where it stops
or slows down or something, because, like I said before,
ninety plus percent of the people in the subway or
all good people you know, going to work, going out
(44:52):
to eat, go to a show, you know, whatever it
might be that have to encounter the stuff.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
So speaking of mental health, because that will bring us
to our last story that we wanted to talk about
with you today is this arson that happened at Governor
Shapiro's mansion in the governor's mansion in Pennsylvania. And I
guess the guy who got caught with this was dealing
with some mental health issues as well. I don't understand
(45:19):
how this person got access to the property so easily.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
First thing I said, I mean me being in the
profession that I'm in or was in. That was the
very first thing. Not that he lit a fire, not
that the governor had to get out of there. Howd
he get in exactly any scale offense with the security
team there get into the house. So I don't know,
and I have no answer for that, and that I have.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
A suspicion it's because the people that were watching it
were on their phones, I'm sure of it. Like are
there rules that if you I mean, I guess it's
a private security probably, but are there because I swear ye,
Like I drive around all the time, and sometimes I
see cops pulled over at the side of the road
for whatever they're doing, and they're like looking down in
their lap at a phone, and I'm just like really like,
(46:09):
it's and this is not just cops, this is everybody
in the world. It's everybody's checked out, you know.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know who the security
team was, whether it's the Jersey State Police, which are
like in New York, the New York State Police have
the security detail for the governor. I don't know if
that's the same thing in Pennsylvania. Uh, if they're involved
ors it's a private company, but you know, you just
they should have when you when you're dealing with protection
(46:39):
of principles of that high level governors, the president, all
of that, there's a zero failure mission. You can't fail.
You can't not get something. You can't allow what happened
to happen. You know, I don't care who it is,
whether you like them or not, you can't have that
occur because that breaks down the system of who you know,
(47:00):
what other things are going on that people aren't being
protected that need to be protected. Then it also what
it does is you start the copycats. He got away
with it. Let me try, you know, and someone might
come through and actually succeed in what they wanted to do,
and that's when you get into real big problems.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Oh yeah, it's it's weird because I was looking up
I just was curious about the house, like what it
looked like, and it's twenty nine thousand square feet, so
that's it's huge. Twenty nine thousands, he said, twenty nine
thousand square feet. I don't know if that was the
whole property, because.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
It's a house in Seede.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
It does.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
It does seem insane, but I don't know, because there's
like a museum and shit in there, like people could
go visit. There's tours, they have like artifacts on the
first Florence of So I don't know, maybe it's the
whole property whatever. But regardless, I was looking it up
and it had the address and directions. It's just like
very easy for someone to go there, so you would
(48:02):
think that it was it was like hard to get
into if if you're just telling people how to get there,
it's very easily. I mean they even have things how
to get here from this highway in this highway. They're
just like, hey, come over, tours, come look at this,
Come look at that. It's just it's just like, I
don't know, it's it's just nuts. But the so the guy.
(48:24):
So this is something I wanted to ask you because
as soon as I heard about this happening on the news,
I was on X or Twitter or whatever, and and
I'm seeing pictures of the guy who did it and
his social media accounts and put and pit screenshots of
his posts that he was making. And I didn't hear
that guy's name for for a very long time on
(48:47):
the news. So what do you feel about all of
these sleuths, internet sluice like looking up all of this
information and posting it, Like, how does that affect your
investigation and stuff when people are like and stuff out
there that you don't you don't want out there yet, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
That becomes a big problem. And thankfully when I was
doing all that, none of this was around, you know.
And it's more, you know, this day and age with
with private salutes, which listen, if I know a few
you know that that have access to things, because listen,
they don't. They're not binded by the rules that we are,
(49:26):
you know, they can have access to someone knock on
the door, and these people who are telling them information, no,
they're not talking to the police. So it's a different conversation. Uh,
you know, the ability to just show up and walk around.
We have our tours that we do and when we work,
they don't.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
And the access and the I guess talent, I'll give
it to them. The talent that they have investigating these
things are incredible. Of what they think of and how
they access this information is why. But you know, one
of the conversations I had with one young woman who
(50:04):
does it is see she had a thing that if
she found anything, she'd be in touch with the police.
And I think that's important, you know, go out and
check out anything, because here I've said this on so
many shows that the police can't be everywhere, but the
public can. And if you have someone that's all into
it and is doing some digging and find some good stuf,
(50:26):
do it. I don't care who you are. If I
get to lock someone up in some someone else help, great,
that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
You know.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
So that's where I think detectives can play a role
with some of these you know, salutes that are going
out there and have kind of that relationship with them.
When you get into you get into a murky waters
when it's a ongoing case. So what I mean by
(50:52):
that is, let's say serial killer, or someone's missing or or.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Like Brian Koberger or something right, and you get that
up in a second.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
And you get information that might be contradicting you know
what you're looking at. That's when it gets a little nutty.
And that's when detectives and police departments get annoyed because
especially listen, there's things with investigations, especially when it comes
to you know we just brought up before, like Night
Soccer or Scott Peterson. There's so many times that the
(51:25):
police have information but will never put it out there
because it's going to impact that person's actions. Them getting
notified that they are a subject of the investigation or
anything like that, that's when it gets really bad because
that's going to make a dramatic impact on the investigation,
and that's what you never want as a detective.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
Well, I think, like you're saying, the really positive example
of this we've seen is like Michelle McNamara working with
the police to help solve the Golden State killer case.
But then we have the negative side of it with Coburger,
for example, why that TikToker had been accusing a professor
of killing the four kids, and now that person is
going after the TikToker because obviously we know that did
(52:09):
not happen at this point, where that professor is not
the leading suspect at this time, and you're essentially ruining
that person's life with allegations like that. So people are
really reckless with the information they post, sometimes.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
No doubt, and they lose the fact that you're not
you're not in the police department. You know, you're not
part of this. You're on your own and the information
you put out there is going to come back to you,
you know. So listen, you want to post stuff, you
damn well better be right and you know, get either
authorization or corroboration of it or whatever. But you know
(52:45):
it's your responsibility if you're going to go out there
saying stuff and pinpointing people's names and what they did.
That is so dangerous on every level.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
That's been agree I think it drives people nuts when
they because I know for me, like especially when the
Brian Coberger thing happened, it's like it happened right before Thanksgiving, right,
and we didn't find out until New Year's Eve. Around
New Year's Eve time, all that time passed and then
people are just like, what's going on?
Speaker 3 (53:15):
We need to know?
Speaker 2 (53:16):
The public wants to hear, like and I don't even
live around there, so it doesn't affect me at all,
but I just want to know because I'm curious, you know,
cause you're nosy, because I'm nosy. But like people start
getting Nancy because they think that the police department is
not doing a good job when they were the whole time.
They just were like keeping their mouths up like you
were saying, Tom, like the guy was on the loose
(53:37):
still and they were trying to get him. But that's
what makes people start, Like I mean, there were just
like RANDO influencers just showing up in Moscow, Idaho, and like,
I mean, Nancy was posted up on the folding table
in front of the house for like a week. So yeah,
but at least she she does this as a living
(53:59):
Like it's I'm just saying, like, just people, It's just
crazy how like people are becoming Internet detectives like that, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Why why social media? Yeah you have these you know,
you had a Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys when
we were kids and it was a TV show. You
didn't have this because you know a lot of people unfortunately.
You know, some are into it and it's a it's
a kind of passion they have or hobby or whatever,
which is fine. But there's other people out there that
(54:28):
want views and they want clicks, and they want this
and that, and that's where it becomes a problem with
showing up to scenes and talking to people maybe you
shouldn't be talking to. You know, it's all about that
that wow factor on social media, and that's when you
know things can go wrong real quick. And investigations listen,
the smallest detail kids spinning investigation on its head and
(54:52):
either naked or ruin it in a blink of an eye.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
Yeah, I know that's true. Jeez.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
There's Internet is just like the best and worst thing ever.
Say that every day.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
All right.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
We want to know, like where could everybody reach you?
Obviously the gold Shields Podcast. Do you have social media
that you do that you want to show up?
Speaker 1 (55:15):
We just said yes, we have our YouTube channel which
is YouTube dot com slash at gold Shields. All our
shows are on there. Instagram, at the gold Shield Show,
our website, Thegoldshield Show dot com, and every audio channel
you can think of. We're on some that we don't
(55:35):
even know we're on, which is always fun to get
that email of hey you reached this amount. We're like, okay, cool,
well thank you, but it's just it's a great ride,
and thank you so much for letting me do that,
because that's what this is all about, just trying to
entertain more and more people and get some some cool
stories out to them. So that's all our contacts, and
(55:57):
give us a shout, follow us, subscribe to all that
good stuff, and.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
We'll forgive your Yankees hat on today's episode, because don't
believe we'd never allow that.
Speaker 3 (56:07):
Well if if it was.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
It's so funny because when I came home from our dinner,
I was telling Gabe about you, and I was just like, well, listen,
like the good news is at least he's a Yankees
fan and he's not a Mets fan. And then Gabe's like, yeah,
I saw his hat, Like he just noted. He just
like like zones in on things like that. But yeah,
as long as you're if it was a Mets hat,
we might have had to have a conversation with you
(56:32):
before we got on.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
But I don't think in my lifetime, I don't think
I've ever wore a mat hat. So you don't have
to worry about that.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
You have to come with you and your wife have
to come to a game with us, because I saw
that we're playing the Yankees a couple of times coming
up this summer, so we should all get together and
have like a night at the stadium.
Speaker 3 (56:49):
That can come up there too. Whatever you want to.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
Do, that's easy, let's set it up.
Speaker 2 (56:53):
All right, awesome, all right, cool, all right, guys, Well,
thank you so much, Thank you so much time for
coming on this show.
Speaker 3 (57:00):
This was such a fun conversation. Don't forget. This is
the last day to enter for.
Speaker 2 (57:05):
The one million download giveaway, and we're going to announce
the winners next week. Thank you for listening to Mother
Knows Death. As a reminder, my training is as a
pathologist's assistant. I have a master's level education and specialize
in anatomy and pathology education. I am not a doctor,
(57:27):
and I have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead or
alive without the assistance of a licensed medical doctor. This show,
my website and social media accounts are designed to educate
and inform people based on my experience working in pathology,
so they can make healthier decisions regarding their life and
(57:47):
well being. Always remember that science is changing every day
and the opinions expressed in this episode are based on
my knowledge of those subjects at the time of publication.
If you are having a medical price problem, have a
medical question, or having a medical emergency, please contact your
physician or visit an urgent care center, emergency room.
Speaker 3 (58:09):
Or hospital.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
or anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks
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