Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This episode of A Moment in Crime is about the
murder of three young children by their mother. Their deaths
are outlined in detail. The episode also traverses the offender's
extensive mental health issues, fertility and miscarriage and self harm,
and it's intended for a mature audience. If you are
struggling or you're worried about a loved one, please see
(00:22):
the show notes for crisis help and support information. September sixteenth,
twenty twenty one, nine forty pm, Graham Dickerson pulls into
the shared driveway at seventeen Queen Street and Timaru, making
his way to the third and final house. He parks,
(00:42):
steps out of the vehicle and goes to the front door.
The orthopedic surgeon has been out at a work event
and is looking forward to seeing his wife, Lauren and children,
six year old Leonae and two year old.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Twins Karla and Mayer.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
The family have been in Timadoo just six days after
a stressful immigration from South Africa, which included, thanks to
the global COVID pandemic, a mandatory two weeks and managed
isolation at an Auckland hotel. But Graham felt like his
family was beginning to settle. The twins had started preschool
that day, and Leone at a local primary school earlier
(01:19):
in the week. Graham unlocked the front door and went inside.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
He took off his shoes. The house was quiet.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
He walked to the open planned living room and saw
Lauren standing in the kitchen. She looked strange, wobbly, he thought.
He asked her what the matter was, and she mumbled
three words, it's too late. Graham suspected his wife was
under the influence of some kind of substance. Then he
(01:49):
realized something was very, very wrong and rushed to check
on his children. He ran up the hallway and into
Leone's bedroom.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
She was lying in.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Bed, the covers pulled up. She was lifeless. Graham raced
to the twins bedroom. Both little girls were tucked into
their beds with their favorite soft toys. They were also dead.
Graham panicked. He didn't know what to do. He grabbed
his phone, but couldn't think of what emergency number to call,
(02:19):
so he phoned a work colleague. Minutes later, Mark's Vatanich
and his wife arrived at the Dickinson's home. Graham was
sitting outside, howling, screaming, and sobbing.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
They're dead. He told the couple.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Mark called one on one and the operator told him
to keep everyone out of the house. He went and
sat with his wife and a bereft Graham, How could
anyone do that? He was wailing. Constable William Turner arrived
at the house minutes later. He was authorized by a
senior officer to enter the house and see if anyone
(02:54):
inside needed medical assistance. He found Lauren Dickinson sprawled across
the end of a scene bed in a children's bedroom,
alive but clearly very unwell. Then he found the little girls.
They were still pale, not breathing. He checked for signs
of life. Nothing. He contacted police comms and delivered the
(03:19):
news three dead at the scene. The horrifying scene Graham
Dickerson walked into when he got home from work that night.
In twenty twenty one would lead to one of the
most controversial prosecutions in New Zealand history. Lauren and Dickinson
was charged with murdering the three little girls. After a
(03:42):
harrowing five week High Court trial, she was found guilty
on all three counts. Lauren was sentenced recently, marking the
end of the criminal court process. This case is easily
one of the biggest I have covered in my career
to date. The deaths of the children and the ten
they must have felt knowing their mother was taking their lives,
(04:03):
what led up to the murders, the tragedy of Lauren's
mental health, and the mist or ignored red flags, the
spotlight on depression, psychosis, insanity, and infanticide at the trial,
it was a case like no other. Over the next
two episodes of A Moment in Crime, I will tell
you the story of the Dickinson family. I'll tell you
(04:24):
how that family began, how it grew, and how it
ended so abruptly in small town New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And I'll speak to you about what.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
It was like reporting on this case for more than
two years. The episodes will be upsetting for some people,
but it is important to tell the story to explain
what happened to these little girls and why, And in
my opinion, it's important you hear this story from someone
who covered it from start to finish, who attended every
(04:53):
day of the trial and can give a full account
of the prosecution and defense cases. If this episode brings
up any issues for you, or you worried about a
loved one, colleague, or friend. Please see the show notes
for a list of crisis help and support agencies. You
can also find more about this case on enzied Herald
(05:13):
dot co dot nz. From the whodunits in cold cases
to the strange and quirky, crime is one of the
most fascinating corners of society and the news. From the
New Zealand Herald newsroom comes A Moment in Crime, a
podcast delving into some of New Zealand's most high profile cases,
offenses and offenders. Each month, I'll take you inside some
(05:36):
of our most infamous incidents, notorious offenders, and behind the
scenes of high profile trials and events to show you
what's really happening.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
In your backyard.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
As police and paramedics converged on the Queen Street House
on September sixteenth and twenty twenty one, I was at
a work function with my colleague, visual journalist George Hurd.
By ten thirty that night, we started getting information through
about a major incident in Timadoo, multiple people dead at
a suburban house, a homicide investigation under way, police from
(06:15):
christ Church heading to the scene. We spoke to the
duty editors and decided to head to Timadoo as early
as we could. The next morning, we were already on
the road when police issued their first press release. Detective
Inspector Scott Anderson confirmed the triple homicide and that a
fourth person had been hospitalized. He said police is speaking
(06:37):
with people from the address and no one else is
being sought at this time. Police are still in the
very early stages of this inquiry and no further information
is available at this stage. Further information will be provided
as soon as it's available. While we traveled, colleagues in
the Herald newsroom made calls to residents on Queen Street
to see what more we could find out about what
(06:58):
had happened in that house and who was involved. We
learned that the three houses at seventeen Queen Street were
leased up to Timadoo Hospital used as accommodation for international surgeons, doctors,
nurses and their families. We learned that the family in
the back house hadn't been there long, maybe a week,
a couple.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And three little girls.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
We were told that a man had been heard screaming,
wailing and crying at the property shortly before emergency services arrived,
that he had been taken away from the address in
the back of a police car and an adult woman
transported in an ambulance. It became obvious that whatever had
happened in the house was a family harm incident. When
(07:39):
we arrived at Timadou, the house was cordoned off and
the police scene examination was just beginning. Specialist officers in
white boiler suits moved up and down the driveway and
in and out of the house. Police were tight lipped
about what had happened there. Investigators at the scene deferred
all questions to the police media team based in Wellington.
(08:00):
Even our sources and contacts were reluctant to give any
information up. We knew that whatever had happened at seventeen
B Queen Street involved a number of children. We knew
what police had found there was terrible, but we never
could have imagined how terrible. At one pm that day,
Detective Inspector Anderson fronted a press conference.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
This is what he told us.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Police remain at a property in Queen Street, Timuru today.
After three people were located deceased at the property last night.
Police can now confirm that they ceased were children and siblings,
two aged three years and one aged seven. Emergency services
also located. A woman had been properly and she was
(08:44):
transported to Tibrol Hospital and it's in a stable condition.
Those involved had arrived in Timrou from South Africa in
the last week. The investigation into this tragedy is still
on its very really stayed. Though we can confirm that
no one else speaks sought in relation to the deaths
(09:05):
of the three children. Police are still working to notify
all ks of ken them for that reason and to
protect the privacy of those impected by this tragedy. At
this stage of Prince will be racing through the details
regarding actors.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
To prevent the names being published. At that stage, a
coroner made an order suppressing the details of the Dickerson family,
but by about six pm that order was no longer
in place and the family at the center of the
tragedy could be named. From that moment on, the names
of Graham and Lauren Dickerson and their daughters leone six
and two year old twins Karla and Maya became known
(09:43):
across New Zealand and the world. I was given the
names by a source. I'll never reveal who that person is,
but I can say that by the time they passed
the information on to me. Many people outside the investigation
and the family knew who they were. People in the
Temuru community, Graham's workmates, dozens of police and emergency services personnel,
(10:07):
and neighbors. The source wanted to ensure the names, when published,
were reported accurately, that the spelling of the where girls
names was right, and their ages, which police initially misreported.
We didn't publish the names immediately, not until my police
contacts confirmed that the victim's immediate family had been told.
(10:28):
The coroner's office then confirmed the non publication order had
been lifted. We ran our story after that with the information.
We were not the first news outlet to publish the
names of the Dickinson family. I felt it was important
to include this information as there has been a lot
of criticism over when and why the Dickinson's names were published.
(10:48):
In twenty twenty four, Lawrence's parents revealed their anger that
the family was outed so soon, and some members of
the community voiced similar opinions. I want to assure you
that in every case of tragedy, the decision on what
information to publish and when is very considered by myself
and my editors. We certainly do not make these decisions
(11:10):
with haste when it comes to child homicides. In this case,
we held off for more than half a day before
we ran any information identifying the family. At eight fifty
two pm, another police release landed in my inbox. This
one was announcing that a forty year old woman had
been arrested and charged with murder. She was scheduled to
(11:30):
appear in the Timadoo District Court the next morning. Police
would like to reassure the community that this was a tragic,
isolated incident and we are not seeking anyone else. Scott
Anderson said. A scene examination will continue at the Queen
Street address tomorrow. As this matter is now before the courts,
police will not be making any further comment. The next
(11:52):
morning we filed into the Timdoo District Court for the appearance.
We knew Lauren Dickinson was the person charged, but legally
we couldn't report that until after she had appeared in court.
Three charge sheets were provided to the media, but offered
little insight into what had happened to the children. They
simply listed three charges of murder, the accused name, and
(12:12):
the details and date of the alleged crime. Just after
ten a m. Lauren was led into the dock from
the court seals. She stood with her arms crossed in
front of her and looked drawn and distressed as Judge
Dominic Dravitsky took his seat and began proceedings. Lauren did
not speak during the hearing and only nodded briefly when
(12:32):
engaging with the duty solicitor. No please were entered, and
her lawyer asked for name suppression, but after strong opposition
from the media on the basis of open justice extreme
public interest in the fact that her name had been
widely published already, Lauren told her lawyer to withdraw the
suppression application. Initially, it was planned for her to be
(12:54):
remanded to crash each women's prison, but a duty psychologist
arrived at court late in the hearing and told Judge
Dravitsky that it was more appropriate for the accused mother
to be remanded to a specialist facility. Judge Dravitsky agreed
to remind Lauren in custody, to the regional Secure forensic
mental health unit in Christchurch. He also made an order
(13:16):
prohibiting media from publishing the specific details of the girl's
debts in a bid to protect Graham Dickinson and the
Wider family. The method Lauren had used to kill the
girls was later reported widely by South African media and
became common knowledge in New Zealand thanks to the sharing
of that information across social media, but we at the
(13:36):
New Zealand Herald could not report the information until Lauren's
trial almost two years later.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I'll take you through the.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Trial in part two of A Moment in Crime, the
Dickerson Family Tragedy. But first let's look at who the
Dickerson family were and how they got to New Zealand.
Lauren was born to Malcolm and Wendy Fawkes, the oldest
of three children. She grew up in Whitsbank, a small
city just over an hour east of Pretoria. She went
(14:05):
to Pretoria Girls High School as a border and then
on to the University of Cape Town to study medicine.
When she was about fifteen, she was diagnosed with an
intermittent mood disorder and anxiety. She also had a propensity
towards perfectionism and set high standards for herself. Lauren wasn't
a hugely popular girl and struggled with friendships, but things
(14:28):
began to look up for her after she graduated medical school.
Soon after starting at a work placement at a rural
hospital in Pretoria, she met Graham Dickerson, who was undertaking
specialist orthopedic surgical training. During the early years of their relationship,
Lauren saw Graham as her rock and said he helped
her to mostly overcome her depression and anxiety. The couple
(14:51):
married in May two thousand and six. From early on,
Lauren's primary focus.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Was to have children.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
She worked for about six years before giving it up
to start a family. However, the couple had difficulty conceiving
and ended up turning to fertility specialists for help. Around
the same time, Lauren's mental health began to decline again,
she prescribed herself antidepressants. While this is certainly not allowed
in New Zealand, it's common practice in South Africa for
(15:20):
doctors to self prescribe medication. Eventually, the couple learned they
were unlikely to conceive children without medical intervention, and they
started IVF treatment. Lauren's mother would later reveal that she
was very anxious and stressed after every treatment and found
the process heartbreaking. Lauren and George seven rounds of IVF
(15:41):
before she finally fell pregnant. The baby was a girl,
and the Dickinson's plan to call her Sarah. Sadly, when
she was just eighteen weeks pregnant, Lauren suffered serious health
complications and had to give birth to the baby. Sarah
had a heartbeat, but died soon after she was born.
Graham said Lauren cried every single day for two months
(16:03):
after that. She was haunted by the experience having to
give birth to a baby that wasn't going to survive,
only getting to hold Sarah briefly before she was taken away.
The death was categorized as a miscarriage, which meant Sarah's
remains were disposed of rather than return.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
To her parents.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
This was agonizing for Lauren, the thought of her baby
being disposed of like medical waste and being unable to
say goodbye and grieve properly. As soon as she had
recovered physically, Lauren had another round of ivf IT and
the following round were unsuccessful. She and Graham then had
to consider other options, and they chose to try yet
(16:45):
another round, but this time using a donor egg. This
would mean the baby would be Graham's biologically, but have
no connection to Lauren. The couple were confident they would
love and treat the baby as their own. At what
it took to create him or her, they were overjoyed
when Lauren became pregnant. It was a terrifying nine months.
(17:08):
Lauren was a nervous wreck and constantly worried after the
loss of Sarah, But little Leona Dickerson was born in
September twenty fourteen. She was a healthy girl, and her
parents were excited to start their new chapter. But Lauren
found motherhood hard. She struggled with the yarna. She was
also still traumatized over the loss of Sarah. In twenty fifteen,
(17:31):
she sought psychiatric help. Then she was diagnosed with a
major depressive disorder, as well as postpartum depression and underlying anxiety.
Lauren had been taking medication, but it was no longer
balancing her mood, so her doctor changed the prescription. By
the time Leonnae was eighteen months old, Lauren was feeling
(17:52):
and doing much better. Despite the challenges. She was a
dedicated and cauring mother. She came across as overly anxious
and even neurotic to some looking on, but no one
could question her love for the child. Lauren eventually returned
to work. She'd previously been a GP, but after giving birth,
she went to work alongside Graham as the surgical assistant
(18:15):
and practice manager. When Leona was three, Lauren decided to
try another rondevos Verev, again with Dona eggs. She was
soon pregnant with twins. To announce the big news, Lauren
and Graham invited close family to her parents' home for dinner.
When they arrived, they gave each a white box with
two cupcakes inside, signifying their twin pregnancy. During the pregnancy,
(18:40):
Carla was diagnosed with a cliff palette and plans were
made to treat her. When she was born, Lauren was
already stressed. Carrying twins as challenging in the best of situations,
and she was already battling her mental health, the pressure
of parenting a toddler, and the trauma of losing her
first baby. Carla and Meyer were born in November two eighteen.
(19:01):
The Dickisons were relieved when Carla's condition was much less
serious than expected, but the baby still had to undergo
surgery and have both arms and splints to stop her
touching her face.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Afterwards.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
She then developed ticks and Lauren was worried the baby
had cerebral palsy. A specialist ruled that out, and eventually
the ticks stopped. Lauren and Graham hired nanny's to help
them manage their three little daughters. A day nannie and
a separate night nanny were on hand to ensure Lauren
could sleep and keep on top of everything she had
to do. A cleaner also came to the house regularly.
(19:36):
While the staff were at the house twenty for seven, effectively,
Lauren was said to be hands on, involved in feeding
and bathing the children, putting them to bed, preparing their meals,
and organizing their activities. She was open about her difficulty
bonding with all three girls, saying she never felt the
instantaneous love many mothers speak about. One of the Dickinsons
(19:57):
nannies spoke to The Herald after the girl died. Mendy Sibignani,
arrived in the home when the twins were four days old.
She said the Dickersons were an awesome family with lots
of love and happiness, and both Graham and Lauren loved
their kids like nobody's business. She said, I never saw
any fight in that family or anything We treated each
(20:20):
other as family. I was family too. There was nothing wrong.
They were such nice children. They listened when you told
them not to do that, and when they wanted something,
they would ask. We used to play outside and take
a walk on the streets. Graham would later say his
wife was not necessarily a warm or nurturing mother, but
she was a good provider, protector, and parent.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
He said.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
She'd always make sure there were clean clothes, food to eat.
She always made sure the kids were where they needed
to be. It was around the same time Lauren became
consumed with other worries. In twenty nineteen, Graham and Lauren
(21:11):
decided to leave South Africa and began looking at other
countries they could move to. They wanted a safer environment
for their children where they could have more freedom and
live without fear. Pretoria has high rates of violent crime
and a reputation for consistently having one of the highest
murder rates in South Africa. By the time they were
(21:31):
ready to leave in twenty twenty one, there was the
added tension of increasing political unrest, protests, riots and looting
fueled by job layoffs. In economic and equality was worsened
by the COVID nineteen pandemic policies.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
South Africa was.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Put into a national lockdown from March to September twenty twenty,
with movement and travel restricted and schools closed. As the
new strains of COVID swept the world, the lockdowns were tightened.
Graham was unable to work at times and was at
home with his wife and children. It was a trying
time for countless families around the world, parents stuck at home,
(22:09):
often inside with small and demanding children, concerns around health, safety,
and finances. On top of that, Lauren was battling her
own mental health issues and a paranoare around the safety
of her family increased intensely. She messaged her friend a
hate living in this country at the moment. Can't see
us raising our kids here with any.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Chance of a future.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
The Dickinson family home was in a residential estate in
the east of Pretoria. The estate was blocked off by
a four kilometer solid brick wall with an electrified perimeter
fence and on site control room. It also boasted a
sound security infrastructure, which included efficient armed guard force supported
by sophisticated security technology. But that wasn't enough for the Dickinsons.
(22:57):
Graham began looking for jobs in New Zealand, an event
she accepted the role at Timidoo Hospital. He and Lauren
then began the immigration process, which took much longer than expected.
There was so much paperwork, selling the house, shipping their belongings,
packing the children up, finding somewhere to live in New Zealand,
(23:17):
and the admin of their new life here schools, bank accounts, vehicles.
Lauren embarked on a new health and lifestyle plan and
was doing well, coming off her medication for the first
time in twelve years. She was relieved to be improving mentally,
but also knew that immigration New Zealand would look on
her more favorably if she wasn't currently on any antidepressants.
(23:41):
Lauren was exercising, eating well, and she'd lost weight. She
looked healthy and appeared happy and stable, but as she
worked to move her family abroad, everything began to unravel.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
The couple had booked.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Their flights to New Zealand and were doing everything they
could to avoid any of their number contracting COVID. They
sold the house, packed all of their possessions into a container,
and moved in with Graham's mother, Betty, with just their suitcases.
They were only meant to be there for five days
before they flew to New Zealand, but then Lauren was
scheduled for a much needed foot operation. It had been
(24:16):
delayed due to COVID restrictions at the hospital. The Dickinsons
changed their plan and their flights, intending on flying out
as soon as Lauren was mobile. The surgery went well,
and finally everything was going to plan. The family went
for their pre flight COVID tests and were shattered to
learn one of the little girls had the virus. The
(24:36):
family had to isolate for two weeks. They changed their
flights again and hunkered down at Betty's. Lauren was stressed, overwhelmed,
and anxious. Emigrating was a huge undertaking, particularly with three
little kids. The looting, the riots, and the violence had
also escalated. Graham would later describe how that impacted his wife.
(25:00):
There was nothing close to her house, but she was very,
very scared. I think it was a lot at one time.
During that time, she struggled. She didn't eat much, she
didn't have a lot of conversation with anybody.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
She was really stressed.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Things got so dire for Lauren that at one point,
during a power cut. She became convinced her family would
be murdered. She insisted she and Graham sleep with a
nine millimeter pistol beside the bed from then on. Six
weeks before the move, Lauren began taking antidepressants again. She
was losing weight rapidly, and family and friends could see
(25:35):
she was not doing well. She was often overcome with
emotion and experience panic attacks. Around this time, she told
a friend that she was emotionally done, that she cried
every day, and that life was shit. She became so
stressed by everything going on that she was constantly nauseous
and she couldn't face eating. She lost more weight and
(25:55):
was described by many close to her as skeletal. She
had thoughts of harming the little girls and spoke to
her husband about this. She said she was seeing images
of sedating the children and cutting their femeral arteries. It
wasn't the first time Lauren had confided in Graham about
dark thoughts of harming their children. She'd earlier sought help
from a psychiatrist for this, but she never actually hurt
(26:19):
the girls, and Graham put the thoughts down to stress.
When she told them about the sedating and cutting thoughts.
Graham got angry, punched the bed and shouted at her.
He told her to pull herself together or risk destroying
their future. He firmly believed that all his wife needed
was a new start, a change in environment. He genuinely
(26:41):
believed that if he could get her on a plane
to New Zealand, get her settled into their new home
in Timdu, get the girls back to school so she
had time for herself, everything would be okay. Around that time,
Lauren told a friend, my mental health is the shittest
it's ever been. In late August, the Dickinson family finally
(27:03):
began their long awaited trip. They flew from South Africa's
New Zealand with stops in Doha and Brisbane, arriving in
Auckland on August twenty eight. As part of the response
to the spreading COVID nineteen pandemic, the family were whisked
straight to a hotel for two weeks of mandatory quarantine.
Lauren had been nervous about spending fourteen days in a
(27:24):
room with three kids. She'd packed all sorts of games, toys,
books and crafts, materials, and a vacuum cleaner so she
could maintain some kind of control over the family's mess.
They arrived at the Novitale to find they had two
rooms with an adjoining door in between. She messaged a
friend and said, I'm glad we are here. At least
(27:44):
the elephant that was smothering me is off my chest.
Quarantine was mostly uneventful for the family. One day, Maya
was jumping on a couch and fell off, hitting her head.
She had to go to hospital to get stitches, but
apart from that, there were no other concern us or
red flags.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
From their hotel room.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Lauren began reaching out to other South Africans on a
Facebook page for expats and Timido, asking about primary and preschools.
She wanted to enroll the girls as soon as possible,
get them into a routine and making friends. It would
also mean she finally had time for herself, which had
been impossible in the months leading up to the move.
(28:25):
On September eleven, the Dickinson family were released from MiQ
and they boarded the final flight of their journey from
Auckland to Christchurch. There, they picked up a car they
had purchased and a second rental vehicle Grams employer had
organized for them for a couple of weeks to help
with their move. The couple then drove in convoy for
about one hundred and sixty kilometers before arriving at their
(28:47):
new home, the Queen Street Townhouse. The house was just
two hundred and fifty meters from the hospital and across
the road from a large park with a playground. Graham
and Lauren got the girl settled in the next day,
they went to a barbecue with some of Graham's new
colleagues and their families, several of which she would also
emigrated from South Africa.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
The next few days were busy.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
The girl's school enrollments needed finalizing, Leona needed a uniform
and supplies Laura needed by groceries. They had to finish unpacking,
and they wanted to familiarize themselves with timrou Graham went
to a hardware store to get an Alan key. One
of his colleagues had given Leone a bike, and Graham
thought the brakes were a bit tight and he wanted
(29:30):
to loosen them so she wouldn't pull them too hard and.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Go flying off.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
He looked through the aisle, thinking about what else they
needed at the house. He spotted a bag of cable
tires and grabbed them. He often used the tires around
the house to secure cords. For example, cable ties are
a very useful thing. I always have cable ties with me.
I didn't even think about it. I just popped it
in my trolley. Graham later explained he also purchased a
(29:55):
screwdriver set, two dustbins, some electrical plugs, and some lunch
box for the girls, one purple and two turquoise. Graham
and Lauren's plan was to have the first week at
home together, settling in and sorting the house and kids,
but he ended up going into work for a couple
of hours each day, leaving Lauren at home. He said,
(30:16):
they required me to start at the hospital the next week,
and I needed to familiarize myself at the hospital. She
wasn't pleased with that arrangement. She was definitely taken aback
and annoyed with me. On Wednesday, September fifteen, Lenee started school.
She got up and put on her new uniform. Lauren
brushed her hair and tied it up. Then the family
(30:37):
took photos together to mark the occasion. One shows Linee
sitting on the floor in front of her mother in
her new uniform while Carla sat nearby cutting paper with
some plastic scissors. Graham and Lauren dropped their oldest daughter
at school. Lene was happy and excited to be there
to meet her sixteen little classmates. Her teacher, Wendy Hamilton,
(30:58):
said she seemed a little quiet, but no more than
any other six year old would be who just arrived.
I remembered commenting to line about how good she looked
in her uniform.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I showed her where her desk was. The dad asked
if he could take a photo of her.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I remember the mum asking if she could bring a
cake for Linee's birthday the next week. There was nothing
that seemed odd about any of the family or any interactions.
Leone wasn't harry, and it seemed like she was going
to settle in quickly. She was shy, but nothing out
of the ordinary. Hamilton paired Lionnee with another little girl
she thought she'd make friends with.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
The day went well.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
The next day, Lauren was alone when she dropped Lionee
at the classroom. Hamilton recalled, Leone came over and gave
me a big hug. I told Lauren that Line seemed
happy and relaxed. Everything seemed normal. It didn't feel like
Leonee had just started at the school because she was
very confident about getting involved. Nothing gave me course for
any concern. Before Lauren dropped Leonee off, she and Graham
(31:59):
had taken the two to their classroom for their first
day of preschool. Graham then went straight to work. He
had not yet started in his new role, but spent
the morning observing a colleague with patients and trying to
learn the system. He went to lunch with another colleague
and his wife, and then returned home. He found Lauren
lying down on their bed. It was the first time
(32:20):
she had been alone in weeks, so Graham left it
a rest, doing some work on his laptop. At two
point thirty, Lauren went to pick the three girls up
from school. When they returned to the house, she gave
Leonae and the twins some snacks, probably raisins or pretzels,
and some fruit. They watched television and played with some
wooden blocks on the living room floor. Graham and Lauren
(32:41):
chatted about how the girls went at school. Then the
family went across the road to the botanic gardens they'd
been regularly since arriving in Timodoo. The girls loved the
playground and being outside after the long journey and their
time and managed isolation was still a bit of a novelty.
Graham sat on a swing while the girls played, but
(33:01):
Lauren stayed close, afraid they would fall and hurt themselves.
The family wandered home at five PM. The kids watched
some more television while Lauren prepared dinner. She made chicken
nuggets for the girls and a separate meal for herself.
Graham wasn't eating with his family that night. He was
heading out for dinner with colleagues, but he sat with
the girls as they ate, watching surgical approach videos on
(33:24):
his phone. Dinner done, Lauren and Graham showered the girls
one by one, got them in their pajamas, and herded
them back to the living room. Graham watched them TV
with them for a bit, then went to get himself
dressed and brush his teeth. Lauren had been quiet all evening,
but Graham didn't think much of it. He said, I
tried to give her space. We had, you know, basic communication,
(33:47):
but no deep conversations about anything. I think the only
thing we really spoke about was something to do with
our visas. She was quiet and I just thought, you know,
I wouldn't try and force her into conversation. But I
didn't think much of it. To be honest, I gave
a space because she wasn't talkative. I assumed she was
stressed or tired. She's not a very talkative person. She
(34:08):
never was, so when she's not feeling great. I tend
not to try and push her into conversations. It's just
the way it's always been. But it was no different
than previous times. There was no indication. At seven pm,
Graham left for his work dinner.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
He said goodbar to his children. It was the last
time he would see them alive.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Graham had been invited to a journal club with some
colleagues from work. They held regular dinners where they take
turns to read up on an orthopedic journal and summarize
it to the others. On September sixteen, they met at
a local steak restaurant. The dinner finished at about nine
pin fifteen, and Graham headed home. He pulled up to
the house slowly. The twins bedroom was next to his
(35:09):
car park, and he didn't want to wake them.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
He was as quiet as possible as he.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Unlocked the door, stepped into the hallway and took off
his shoes. The lights were off in the little girl's
bedrooms and the house was calm, silent. He walked through
the living room to the kitchen and put his keys
in a basket on top of the microwave. Lauren was
standing by the bench holding what he thought was a
glass or cup in one hand, holding onto the kitchen
(35:36):
top to stay upright with the other. He thought she
looked strange, as if she wanted to fall over. He
asked her if she was okay. She didn't answer. Graham
pressed his wife.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
What's the matter, he asked. She told him it's too late.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Until then, Graham had assumed his daughter's were sleeping, but
after his wife said that, he rushed to check on them.
All three were pale and cold. Graham couldn't see, hear,
feel any signs of life.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
As you heard earlier.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
He picked up his phone, and he couldn't remember what
number to call for emergency services, so called his colleague instead.
Mark's Fattanach had just arrived home from journal club himself.
He told his wife about Graham's panic call, and she
decided she'd better go with Mark to Queen Street. At
that stage, Graham realized the girls were dead. He walked
(36:34):
out of the house, noticing Lauren lying across Leona's bed
As he fled, he didn't know if she was alive
or dead, and he didn't.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Stop to check. Outside.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Graham began yelling and screaming and crying. He sat down
and waited for Mark and his wife to arrive.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
He was in shock. It was highly distressed. He said.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
It felt like an hour, but it could have been
a minute before he arrived.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I think I just sat there.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Against a wall, waiting for him. I wasn't sure what
to do. Mark could hear Graham screaming as soon as
he arrived at the house. He said he was sitting
on the ground. He kept crying and saying, they're dead.
He was really distressed. He thought his wife was dead too.
Mark called one on one and directed police to the
address as his wife sat with Graham, who was then crying.
(37:24):
How could someone do that. Constable Turnbule arrived and checked
the house, told his supervisor the children were dead. He
went back in to check on Lauren. When he spoke
to her, she opened her eyes. She was not visibly
injured and was able to partially sit up she was
drowsy and told him she'd taken a powerful painker. Turnbull
(37:45):
Senior told him to recheck the children and confirm they
couldn't be saved. He said, I went back and checked
their airways and pulses. This is when I observed the
two children in the beds had zip ties around their
neck and they had been cut. There were several ties connected.
Turnbull confirmed there was nothing he could do for Leonee
(38:06):
Maya and Carla. Constable Alexander Schrader arrived and went to Lauren,
who was clearly affected by something.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
She said.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
She was occasionally saying words, but it appeared like she
was talking like she was sleeping. She was sleepy, weak, pale.
Shreder led a stumbling Lauren to the ambulance and stayed
with her as paramedics assessed her. She was in a
catatonic state, but her vital stats were normal. There were
superficial cuts to her left wrist covered by a small plaster.
(38:37):
When asked if she'd done that to herself, Lauren said no.
Paramedics ascertained she had no life threatening andreas, but noted
Lauren looked vacant and her speech was slurred and incomprehensible.
They said there were no signs of an overdose at
the house or any signs of physical trauma to the woman.
One paramedic noted the patient was able to walk. She
(39:01):
seemed to know where to go. The patient remained quite rigid,
but she was able to walk quite quickly and with
minimal assistance. She asked Lauren if she knew where she
was going and why, and the woman replied yes. Lauren,
supervised by Schrader, was driven to Timoru Hospital where she
was seen by doctor Gabriella Gason. She noted Lauren had
(39:23):
a reduced level of consciousness and was nonverbal, but was
responding to commands. The woman presented as if a substance
overdose had occurred. A number of tests were carried out
on Lauren, including a ceed tea scan to rule out
hidden head injuries. When Lauren was taken from the address
by ambulance, Graham was taken away by police, who was
(39:45):
then interviewed at the Timadoo police station. Soon after, he
spoke to police about what was going on in his
wife's life before that terrible day, explaining that alongside selling
their home in Pretoria and organizing a move to Timidoo.
The couple had faced lockdown with three girls. This is
part of what Graham told police in his evidential interview.
(40:06):
These are his words voiced by an actor.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
We had to pack up the house, pack a container
and we moved into my mum's house with the kids
in our suitcases. We were only supposed to stay for
four or five days and then fly out to New Zealand.
But Lauren also had a foot operation which she would
have had earlier, but it was delayed also due to
COVID restrictions at the hospital, and just prior to that,
we had severe riots in South Africa where there was
(40:30):
severe looting going on, political unrest, and she was very scared.
There was nothing close to our house, but she was
very very scared.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I think it was a.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
Lot at one time. And then while at my mum's
we went for our pre flight COVID test and my
one daughter test are positive and that forced us to
be in isolation for two weeks at my mum's place,
which we didn't anticipate. During that time, she really struggled.
She didn't eat much, she didn't have a lot of
conversation with anybody. She was really stressed. Lauren was not
in a good place. It's always been a personality to
(41:00):
stress about things and to anticipate things are going to
go wrong, and to worry about them before they go wrong.
I'm totally opposite. I'm a glass half full kind of
guy who waits till things go wrong. I don't anticipate
problems if something goes wrong. I sought it out, so
we're different in that way. But I understand after being
married to her for fifteen years, and I supported her well.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Police heard how Lauren sought professional help for her mental health,
first when she was a teenager and most recently when
her oldest daughter was young. Graham said, I didn't think
those things would ever add up to get to a
point to be capable of what's happened today. He then
told police his wife was a good mother. Here is
more of what he said. Again, these are his words,
(41:43):
but not his voice.
Speaker 4 (41:45):
She would always make sure they would clean clothes, food
to eat. She always made sure the kids where they
needed to be. She was not a nurturing mother. The
kids preferred me, Not so much Leana anymore because she's
a big girl, but the twins definitely preferred me. She
was ruggling with motherhood, and I think I compensated for
that by giving the kids everything they needed on a
social level. She verbalized on multiple occasions she doesn't seem
(42:09):
to think she's a good mother, and I've always reassured
her maybe that was a mistake. I just never thought
she could do something like this. She was not one
that would like to pick them up or just be
with them or cuddle. She's very good an organization who
organizational skills are exceptional, but she could just never enjoy them.
I always hoped that it could improve, and I think
(42:29):
I just tried to compensate for it. But it was
never anything that I worried about in terms of being
harmful to the kids. I think it's just part of
her depression that she's struggling with. She was a very
closed book, especially in those last couple of weeks. If
I suspected anything like this could happen, I never even
would have come here.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Graham admitted to police that he and Lauren almost put
a stop to their move to New Zealand a number
of times, but ultimately pressed on because they wanted a
better life for their children. He explained that South Africa
it was a beautiful place, but there were many political
and racial issues.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
He said.
Speaker 4 (43:05):
The current situation in South Africa is that white people
are heavily in the minority and it's dangerous. There's a
lot of crime and a lot of people getting hijacked, killed, murdered,
innocent people. The country is going backwards in terms of infrastructure,
electricity supply. The land value has dropped significantly over the
last couple of years. There's a lot of people emigrating
(43:27):
from South Africa all over the place, especially people like
us with young kids, to try and secure a better
quality of life, a safer life. She was always on board.
In fact, she drove this immigration. She wanted it. We
could have stopped this process at many, many points and times.
There were multiple occasions where we could have said, you
know this, we're not going to get through this, but
(43:48):
we always did and I thought it made us stronger.
And there were days that were tough, and I often
tried to speak to her and asked her if she
wants to proceed, and it was always a consensus. But
something something flipped. I cannot imagine that it would cause
what happened today. I didn't see it. My kids are
dead it's going to destroy so many people. My mom's
(44:11):
not going to be able to handle this. This will
kill her.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Graham then told police his wife had been taking an
antidepressant called cipromole each day for about six weeks.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
She'd taken it previously.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
But came off the medication earlier in the year after
she went on a health quest. She exercised and ate well,
lost way and felt good, so she was confident she
could cope without the drug. But the day after her
foot surgery, she told Graham she was struggling, that she
didn't feel right or well, and she started back on
the antidepressants immediately. Graham said he checked in with Lauren
(44:46):
about her meds on a semi regular basis, and she'd
assured him she'd been taking them as prescribed.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
He told police, Lauren had been suffering from depression for
a long time. It's just a mild depression, I would say,
struggles on a daily basis. Before we had Leane, she
verbalized she didn't see any point in living. She wanted
to take her own life. After that, she sought help
for the first time. The second time was two years
ago when the twins were small. Obviously, there was something
(45:15):
deeper that I didn't recognize. I've been married to her
for fifteen years. Not in my wildest dreams did I
imagine something like this.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Graham said that on the day of the murders, there
were no red flags. He explained that he didn't speak
to Lauren much, but that wasn't unusual.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
He said, I think the only thing we really spoke
about was something to do with our visas. She was quiet,
and I thought I wouldn't force her into conversation. I've
been with her for fifteen years. She's been like that
many times. There were no fights. I assumed she was
stressed or tired. It was no different from previous times.
She didn't seem like she would do anything.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
The detective asked Graham to talk more about what he
found when he arrived home that terrible night with Lauren
in the kitchen. Here a Graham's words, again voiced by
an actor.
Speaker 4 (46:05):
I realized there was something strange in her face. It's
just a facial expression I haven't seen before, and she
was wobbly. She had to hold onto the kitchen top
to stay upright. That's when I asked her if she
was okay. I asked her what's wrong. And the only
thing I can remember that she said was it's too late,
Just bluntly, it's too late. When I saw her the
first time, I knew something was wrong. She couldn't tell
(46:28):
me what was wrong. It was just my first reaction
to go into Leane's room. The door was open and
the light was off, and I switched the light on,
and the douvet was covering her head. She never sleeps
like that. I pulled back the douvet. Her face was pale.
I tried to wake her up, and that's when I
noticed the cable ties around her neck. I shot her
by the shoulders, spoke to her, probably yelled at her.
(46:51):
I don't think I packed her up at that stage.
I think I just tried to wake her. I think
I rang for the twins room saw the same thing.
I think I tried to wake both of them briefly
before I ran to the kitchen to get the scissors.
I cut the cable tie round Leyana's neck first. I
think I put her on the ground, and I think
I gave tried to give her two breaths, and I
(47:12):
think after that I ran to the twins to cut
the cable ties around their nets. I was in a panic.
I can't say for sure what was the exact sequence.
I screamed their names, checked, grabbed their shoulders. I think
I had just see in the color of their faces
that it was futile, but I cut the cable ties.
I think when I realized that they all three deceased,
(47:33):
I just went out of the house. I had nowhere
to go. I did notice that Lauren made her way
to Layana's room, and I think the last time I
saw her she was just lying across the foot of
Leyana's bed. I wasn't sure if she was dead or alive.
I didn't check. I just walked past and walked out
of the house. I didn't talk to her. She was
just laying with her eyes closed. I asked Mark to
(47:55):
come and help me. He'd probably hear I was distressed.
He asked what's wrong, and I think I just told
him something's wrong with the kids, that Lauren did something
to them, and I think they did. I walked around
the house. I think I was screaming around the back
side of the house. I think I just sat in
the hedge, just on the grass.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
By four pm on Friday, Lauren Dickinson had been discharged
from hospital. Doctors who had been treating her believed she
was fit enough mentally and physically to speak with police.
She was picked up and driven to Timdoo's police station
and settled into an interview room. The officer who interviewed
her said she was polite, willing to engage with police
and articulate. She was quietly spoken that maintained eye contact
(48:38):
and understood what was happening to her. Lauren looked exhausted
in the video, gaunt with a drawn face, her nearly
skeletal frame swimming in a black hoodie. She was tearful
as she spoke to the detective, but her words were
clear and coherent. Her eyes remained closed during much of
the interview, which started with Lauren explaining how her moved
(48:59):
to New Zealand had been so overwhelming. The morning of
the murders, the family's immigration advisor had requested further information
about Lauren's mental health and Carla's cleft palette that had
exacerbated Lauren's already extreme stress. While her police interview can
be reported word for word, the actual audio cannot be reproduced,
(49:22):
So this is an actor reading what Lauren Dickerson told police.
Speaker 5 (49:27):
I don't even know where to start. It just got
too overwhelming, and with the new visa thing that came
through yesterday, I just see no hope for us here
in the future. Just getting on the airplane was enough
of an effort. There was too much paperwork to be done.
And then there was the two weeks in MiQ, which
almost had us crazy. Something just snapped last night. I
(49:51):
just couldn't anymore. I was so tired of screaming, saying no. Basically,
the kids were being wild again, jumping on the couches,
not listening to what I'm trying to tell them. I
have been thinking about it for sure. Last night something
just triggered me. I went to the garage. I saw
(50:12):
some cable ties there. I thought that could possibly work.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Lauren described how she herded the children together in one room,
telling them they were going to make necklaces. When the
cable ties were around their necks, she tightened them, but
the plastic devices were not strong enough to kill the children,
so Lauren strangled them one by one, starting with little Carla.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Here is what she told police.
Speaker 5 (50:41):
I did the twins first. The first one was being really,
really really horrible to me. Lately, she has been biting
me and hitting me and scratching me and throwing tantrums
twenty four hours a day. And I just don't know
how to manage that. That is why I did her first.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
Once Lauren knew her girls were dead, she tucked them
up into their beds, pulling their blankets over their heads.
She would later tell psychiatric experts why she did that,
and I'll explain that in part two of A Moment
in Crime the Dickinson Family Tragedy. Lauren said after the
girls were gone, she decided she had to do something
(51:22):
to herself. She ran through the house trying to find
something she could use to take her life. She couldn't
find any blades sharp enough to inflict a fatal wound,
so she started swallowing any medication she could find. I
wanted to die, she told the detective. He asked Lauren
about becoming a mother and the lead up to the murder.
(51:45):
She said she had not felt normal for about nine
or ten weeks, and when they arrived in Timidoo, she
instantly regretted upending her family and moving so far away.
Here is Lauren again in her police interview.
Speaker 5 (51:59):
We struggle with infertility for years and years. I had
a baby before Liyana, and I lost her at twenty weeks.
Then Liana came along, and then the twins were born
four years later, and they really put a lot of
strain on us. I have been functioning on two hours
sleep a day. I think in the last three months,
I've probably lost ten kgs just from stress. I can't
(52:23):
sleep at night. I just think we've made a very
bad decision.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
Lauren told the detective that the day she killed the
girls was the first time she'd had any time on
her own in the last four months.
Speaker 5 (52:37):
She said, I just literally crawled onto the bed with
my hot water bottle and just tried to process everything
that's happened. My biggest concern was that we made a mistake.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
She then admitted she'd had thoughts of harming the children
in the past numerous times. It would later emerge that
there were three occasions before the Dickinsons moved to New Zealand,
and told Graham she was scared of the thoughts she
was having about hurting her children. Those incidents were when
she was battling postnatal depression, but the day of the
(53:10):
murders things were different.
Speaker 5 (53:12):
These other thoughts were something pretty new, something completely different,
popped up in isolation. I don't know where those thoughts
suddenly started coming from last night. Something just triggered me.
So now I have three dead kids.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
The detective asked Lauren to tell him about her daughters
and her husband, Leanne. She said, was a dreamer, always
thinking of some weird and wonderful plan or experiment or
magic potion. She was a lovable little girl, but she
never listened to her mother, she said. Despite the trauma
of her birth, Carla was a real firecracker.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
She said.
Speaker 5 (53:51):
She has got such a temper on her that you
can't describe the aggression that comes out of that little body.
And it scares me. It scares her dad. It's scared
her sisters because she climbs onto them and bites them.
But then at school they say, no, she's an angel,
no problems, Maya's a fruitcake. She just laughs and smiles
(54:11):
at everybody. She's a real happy, go lucky but also
experiencing the terrible twos right now. If they can't have
they throw a tantrum and throw stuff on the floor,
even if it's a full bowl of cereal and milk.
I say to Graham ever since they were born. Mums
always feel this instantaneous love for their children, and I
(54:31):
never really experienced it with my kids. I think there
was something wrong with me for not feeling that, and
I did my best that I could.
Speaker 1 (54:41):
Soon after the police interview, Lauren was arrested and charged
with the murders of Laonee, Karla and Maya. She was
held in custody ahead of her first court appearance the
next morning. Then she was taken to Hilmoton Hospital in
Christchurch admitted to a secure ward unto twenty four hour watch.
Graham was also I looked after and watched closely, and
(55:01):
authorities scrambled to find a space and managed isolation for
his Australian based sister, who wanted to come and support him.
A week after the murders, Graham spoke publicly for the
first time. A vigil was held outside the Dickerson's home
with hundreds of people from Timadoo and beyond attending. Candles
were lit, music was played and tributes were laid at
(55:23):
the end of the driveway, flowers, soft toys.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
Handwritten notes.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
Timadoo Hospital chaplain Reverend Alan Cummins led the vigil and
read a statement written by Graham. Here are Graham's words,
again voiced by an actor.
Speaker 4 (55:40):
My words are few. At the moment, on Thursday, the
sixteenth of September twenty twenty one, my life and lawrens
were turned upside down when our three precious angels were
ripped away from us. It is a loss that I
will carry with me for the rest of my life.
Please also pray for my lovely Lauren, as I honestly
believe she is a victim of this tragedy as well.
(56:01):
People that know it well will testify to that. I
have no doubt I've already forgiven her, and I urge you,
in your own time to do the same. It is
the key to healing from this loss we have all experienced.
For the people touched and affected by this, look after yourself,
look after your wives, your husbands, your partners. Look after
(56:22):
your children. For those with faith in Jesus Christ, hold
on to that. For the parents with young kids, remember them.
Remember to let them run free, remember to let them
play wild, allow them to laugh as much as they can.
I thank you for your love and support the people
of Timaru, New Zealanders. South Africans and many people from
(56:42):
all over the world. We have been blessed with love
and support. My faith in humanity has been restored. I
thank you all.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
Over the next twenty two months, Lauren remained in the
secure unit awaiting her trial in the High Court. Her
lawyers said about doing all they could to convince a
jury she should not be held criminally responsible for her actions.
Graham returned to South Africa, moving in with his mother
as he navigated his grief and a life without his
(57:12):
wife and children. He resigned from his role in Timurrou
and found a new job in Pretoria. Police worked to
build a case against Lauren, piecing together exactly what she
did to the girls and working out why. They poured
through thousands of text message and emails she'd sent and received,
and looked into every corner of her life as they
(57:34):
built a picture of the alleged triple murderer. Both sides
enlisted experts to interview Lauren and ascertain whether she was
mentally fit to stand trial, and when it was decided
she was well enough to go through the process, they
set about finding other experts to give evidence to bolster
their case in court. The Dickerson children had been cremated
(57:55):
following a small private funeral in Timrou There Aren't would
later talk about watching Graham carry his children's ashes, how
devastated she and the rest of the family were that
such bright and promising little girls had been reduced to
so little. In mid twenty twenty three, the world watched
as their mother was led into Courtroom twelve at the
(58:17):
High Court at christ Church on the first day of
her trial. In part two of A Moment in Crime
the Dickerson family tragedy, I will take you through that
trial and what happened to Lauren and Graham Dickerson after
the harrowing.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
Process was over.
Speaker 1 (58:37):
A Moment in Crime is an mz ME podcast written
and hosted by myself, an Elisk senior crime and justice
reporter for The New Zealand Herald. This episode was produced
by myself, podcast production manager ethan Sells and Leanne McDonald
from mzed me Sound and Vision. Thank you to my
colleagues Emily Ansel and Blake Benny at Newstalk z B
(58:58):
for voicing the words of Lauren and Graham Dickerson. The
second part of this episode will be released in two weeks.
My thoughts are with all who loved Leonae Meyer and
Carla Dickerson. Since they died, much of the focus has
been on their mother, but this is their story and
it's so important to remember the three little children at
(59:19):
the center of this tragedy.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
If you're worried about.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
Yourself or someone else, please see the show notes for
information on where to.
Speaker 2 (59:27):
Get help, and please ask for help.
Speaker 1 (59:31):
There is always someone who will listen and support you
when you're unwell or struggling. Episodes of a Moment in
Crime are usually released monthly on ensid, herold dot co,
dot zed iHeartRadio, and all of your usual podcast apps.
If you have a crime or case you'd like me
to consider covering, email Anna dot leask at enzidme dot
(59:53):
co dot zed