January 2, 2025 • 51 mins
In this edition of Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin, comedy and children's author legend David Walliams joins the podcast to talk his career.
World squash champion, former Race Relations Commissioner and reality TV star Dame Susan Devoy released her memoir this year and joined Francesca.
Plus we all know Elijah Wood from the Lord of the Rings trilogy - but he was back on Kiwi screens with the movie Bookworm. So he chatted to Francesca about the movie and his love of New Zealand.
Great Chats with Francesca Rudkin brings you the best interviews from Newstalk ZB's The Sunday Session.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. The big names, the fascinating guests,
the thoughtful conversations, bringing you the best interviews from the
Sunday Session. This is Great Chats with Francesca Rudkins, powered
(00:27):
by News Talks at b HI and.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to the summer edition of Great Chats. I'm Francesca
Budkin and in this podcast we bring you some of
the best feature interviews from the Sunday Session on News Talks.
He'b throughout twenty twenty four. Kicking us off today is
a man who needs little introduction, Comedian, author and TV
personality David Wellhams. He had a very busy twenty twenty four.
He had a new book out and he toured New
(00:51):
Zealand and that is where we started the conversation. Let's
start with the tour. You're doing a tour for adults
and a tour for kids, which is very generous.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Game tour. It's the same tour, but the kids and
family shows in the daytime and then the one that's
more adult orientated is in the evening. Because I announced
the show for grown ups in the evenings and lots
of messages saying is there's going to be suitable for
my young children, and I thought it would be really
(01:22):
nice to do a special books orientated show because obvious
they have a lot of fans young readers. So so yeah,
family shows during the days and evening shows in the nights.
It's not that the evening show is going to be
really really rude, but if you've got an eight year
old who likes my books, it's not quite right with
them because there'll be some adult themes. Nothing too rude,
(01:46):
but you know, it's it's they'll have to stay up
very late to sit through the adult show.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Which do you prefer. I wonder whether you've got a
little bit more license with the kids show to have
a bit of fun, to be a bit more ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Well, I'm proud of my books, and it's obviously a
thrill that I've got so many any young fans around
the world, and so that will always feel really special
to me. And I think there's more of a sense
with kids that you can try and influence them with
positive messages and things, whereas as adults were all sort
of set in our ways, aren't we and all that
(02:23):
goodness has drained out of us. And I think there
is a sort of atmosphere you get with a room
full of kids that is hard to replicate because I
go out to the audience and I ask the kids.
I say, I'm doing research for my new book, The
World's Worst Children for And has anyone got a brother
or sister they'd like to nominate to be in the book. Well,
(02:45):
you can imagine, you know, a thousand hands go up
at once, and everyone's leaping up and down their chairs
because they want to say something. And there's swing about
when kids get excited that even in the most sort
of I don't know, the biggest shows I've ever done
for grown ups, it's not quite the same as the
shrieking and jumping up and down that you get with kids.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Do you take quick from the children?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yes, I'm going to take questions on both shows, and
there are prizes for the best questions for the kids,
And yeah, I like I always like there being a
spontaneous element to the show because I think that that's
when you're thinking on your feet, and that's sometimes when
you can be at your funniest. And also I think
people know that it's spontaneous, so they know that you
(03:30):
are coming up with it at that moment in time,
and it keeps you on your toes because there's a
danger if you do a show lots of times that
you start to sort of think, oh, okay, it's like
muscle memory. I do this bit, I do that bit.
But even when we did a Little Britain Life to it,
we built in lots of improvisation because we needed to
keep it fresh for us and to keep it funny
(03:52):
for us. So and I just like that anarchic part.
And sometimes people get the better of you with like
funny questions and things like that, which is great. And
sometimes kids come up on the stage and I say,
who's your favorite author, thinking that they might say me
because I'm standing in front of them, but then they
say they say JK. Rowling, is that she's not here?
(04:12):
Who's your second davorite author?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
You know?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
And I just love that with kids because obviously all
the parents really like it when the kids say silly.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Things you're asking, so really yeah, So I.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Look, I look forward to those parts of the shows
very much, and I think they're necessary because also I
think the audiences want to be part of the show.
I mean, even you go to comedy clubs and things,
people always shouting things out. People always want to be
part of the show. So I'm very happy to accommodate that.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I love it. You've recently released Estrochimp, Did We Really?
Which is your first, I should say, your first graphic
novel or sort of more along the lines of a
comic book and things. What lead you to this? Why
did you sort of make a bit of a change
with this book book.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I'd had this idea for a long time. I wanted
to write something about all the animals that were sent
into space, because it's quite an interesting story. It starts
with fruit flies, believe it or not. And then there's
the ones that people know about, which is the dog,
like the chimpanzee ham from America, and I thought, even
(05:21):
the French sent a cat into space, which sounds very French.
And I thought, okay, so the real stories, you know,
sometimes tinged with a bit of tragedy because the animals
didn't make it home safely. But I thought, if I
create a sort of imaginary world where some of the
same animals center into space and it's about their adventures,
you know, like one hundred years into the future, they've
(05:43):
all survived and they're all sort of battling each other.
And because it was set in space and because it
was animals, I was really thinking of it in terms
of like an animated movie, and I think the closest
you can get to that is a comic book or
graphic novel you ever want to call it. So it
felt completely right. I mean, sometimes the form the story
(06:04):
dictates the form a bit. Know, my new book is
a murder mystery. It just got an outsake called super Sleuth,
and so that really feels like a novel, you know,
because it's in the it's in the realms of obviously
not what's good ass, but it takes its que from
Sharlock Holmes, Agatha Christie, So it felt right. But this
one's space and animals and lots of action. It just
(06:26):
felt right for to be as visual as possible.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And beautifully illustrated.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I didn't do those, but thank you Adam Stower has
done a brilliant job illustrating it. And also I feel,
because I've been pretty prolific and written lots of books,
I always feel like I want to give the audience
something as fresh as as I possibly can. So changing
the form really helps that. I like to have original stories.
(06:56):
You know, I'm scared of repeating myself because I'm actually
on like book forty one or something like that. I'm like, Okay,
you need to go into the deep recesses of your imagination,
and you need to find different ways to tell a story,
and you need to make sure you're not going over
old ground. So yes, I like, I mean, I'd never
(07:16):
written a murder mystery before. Spaceboy is set in nineteen
sixties America. I've got short stories in the World's Worst Children.
I've got Beast of Buckingham Palace, which is in the future,
you know. And I feel like some of these sort
of I don't know, almost like challenges I set myself
bring out the best in me.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Which one did you write in a Venus gel jail cell?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
All of them?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
All of them?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I wrote in No, I just wrote basically, I was
I brought my wrong passport to Italy. I was on
a trip to Venice and it wasn't discovered until I
arrived at Venice, and so they basically canted me off
and locked me up in this shell cell. And anyway,
(08:03):
but the lucky thing was I was allowed to keep
my handluggage with me, and I had my computer and
I was in there for seven hours. Only one point
did they come in and say would you like a
bottle of water?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
That was it, And they were quite.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Even though I clearly wasn't like going to cause any trouble.
You know, I wasn't smuggling anything into the country or anything.
But I think they rather enjoyed, you know, making my
life quite difficult. So and so I thought, Okay, don't
worry about this, David, You've got seven hours on your
own to write, which is what I did. I knew
(08:37):
it would be a long time because I knew they
had to send me back on the next plane, which
wasn't until late that night. So and so, yes, I
got deported, but before that I got to write quite
a lot of astrochin. But I mean people often say,
you know, have you got somewhere to write? Like Rol
Dale had a writing shed, And I think the main
thing is you want to be alone. And I've never
felt more alone in prison.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
So Italy, well, if you're struggling next time on the
next book, you know where you need to be, don't
you Encouraging reluctant readers. Is a really big goal for you,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yes, I'm going to go into schools up and down
the United Kingdom, and if I find myself somewhere, I
wouldn't normally be because I'm working there. I was thinking,
let's find a school, you know, because it's all very well.
I live in London just to go to schools in London,
but I want to go to schools everywhere. And I
asked the publishers, let's find it underprivileged school, because again
(09:33):
you don't want to preach the converted. You know, of
private school kids are more likely to have access to books,
and in fact, they certainly are. And I go into
schools and you know, it's fantastic. There's lots of kids read,
but there's many that don't. And I feel like if
we don't, if us authors don't grab their imaginations when
they're eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, chances are they're never
(09:55):
going to read as growing up. So they're going to
miss out on a lot. Because reading isn't just about
reading more books, you know, it's it's stories are about
empathy and they teach us important lessons. So I think that, So, yeah,
I've always thought, let's try and reach those reluctant readers.
So I started off with books like Boy in the
(10:15):
Dress and Mister Stink that you know very much novels.
And then I thought, when I went into school in
Glasgow in Scotland and there was some sort of grumpy
boys at the back who hated books, I thought, I
want to write a book that will get you reading.
And that's why I came up with the World's Worst Children.
It was halfway between a comic book and and you know,
(10:39):
one of the books I've already produced, and I thought,
let's make it as visual as possible, let's make it
as silly as possible. There's no big important themes like
there are in some of my stories. It's just fun.
And that's why I came up with those books. And
you know, most days some parent comes up from in
the street and says thank you for your books, because
(11:02):
I couldn't get my child to read before they read
one of yours. So I sort of I feel like
that's an important You know, that for me is an
important part of what I want to do, because there
are I know, much greater works of literature out there
than mine. But I feel like Hopefully my books are
the ones that will get kids reading and then they're
(11:24):
going to go on to more challenging work.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I mentioned to my son yesterday that I was going
to interview to you today. He's about to turn eighteen,
and he was so excited and he started reminiscing about
your books and things, and I thought, that is so lovely.
He may no longer be a captive audience, but he's
still a big fan. That's pretty cool, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Well, it is very cool. But I think you never
forget the books that you read as a kid and
what they meant to you, especially if you weren't a
voracious reader. But you never forget the first book that
you read all by yourself, and the ones that made
you laugh, and the ones that got you know, got
you reading more and more and more. So yeah, I
mean I have forgotten the books that I read and
(12:06):
loved as a kid, and I still treasure them and
sometimes I reread them, and being the father of an
eleven year old boy, I had the chance to read
them all again and read lots of ones that I'd
missed because maybe they were published you know, a bit
later or than you know, after my childhood, or I
just missed them, because you often think, oh, yeah, I know,
(12:28):
Peter Pan, I've seen the Disney movie, but have you
actually read the novel An Alice in Wonderland? Is when
that's very familiar to all of us, but not all
of us have read. So I have a lot of pleasure.
I really love reading children's books, and especially sharing them
with my son. So and obviously, you know, there's a
lot of nostalgia there when I'm returning to books that
(12:49):
I loved.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
You've got so much going on at the moment, but
one thing you are doing is working on a new
show with your Little Britain coaster met Lucas. Now Little
Britain isn't coming back. This is new material.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yes, it's new because we wanted when we did Comply
with Me, which followed a little bit, and we had
a whole new cast of characters and it was exciting
to do that, you know, And so that is what
we're doing at the moment. It's creating a whole new
cast of characters, completely new sketches, and it's quite freeing
that because you're you know, you're not trying to emulate something,
(13:24):
you're not trying to sort of guess second, guess what
people might want to see. You're just following your own
instincts and trying to create something original. And when you
find something that you believe in, it's very exciting. I mean,
because the books I write on my own and so
the downside of that is it's solitary, you know, And
(13:47):
when I write with Matt is that we meet up,
we have a chat about what we saw on TV
last night, We you know, eat some class arms. Eventually
we get around to doing some work, you know, and
then I'm sort of trying to make him laugh. He's
trying to make me laugh. If we're laughing together, we think,
oh we might have something that other people might laugh
at too. So it's quite a pleasurable. Well, it's a
(14:10):
more pleasurable experience, well because it's sociable because we've got
someone to have lunch with.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Maybe you two both need to be in a jailt
cell together. Finally, just looking at everything that you are doing,
do you love the creative license your career gives you
in all these different areas.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, I think that's what probably binds everything together, is
being creative. And I feel very privileged, you know, to
have a job that I love, and you often think,
you know, when you're starting out, you're going to run
out of ideas, but luckily it hasn't happened yet. And
also I think I feel very lucky because I've had
(14:49):
different stages to my career. It's been sketch comedy, had
ten years as a judge on Britain's Got Talent, sort
of like as a TV personality I suppose, and a
children's author as well, and I'm sort of all of
these have been very excited, are very exciting, but I
do feel sometimes, oh, what's the next chapter?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
We shall all wait and see. Thank you so much
for your time. Really lovely to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Thank you, and lovely to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
The biggest names from the Sunday session Great chats with
Brancheska Rudkin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks at b That.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Was the irrepressible David Wellhams. Gosh, A, you're feeling like
maybe you should have a few more projects on the go.
That man, he just never stops. I'm not sure what
I would get done in a venice. Jel Cell probably
just read a book as opposed to write one, regardless
of with you like his world of bottom bangers and
bottom burps and undercrackers. Yes, they are things you must
(15:43):
admire the way authors like David have borden what's available
for kids to read and to write books that keep
them engaged. There is nothing better than kids wanting to read.
And I love the way that the kids then in
return keep him on his toes at his shows. My
next guest on Great Chats is the formidable Dame Susan
Devoi Winos. Susan as a world champion squash player, a
(16:04):
race relations commissioner, a CEO, and a reality TV star,
and throughout all of these roles she has been frank
and honest. But when I read her memoir this year,
I had no idea how funny she was. Anyway, we
started the chat with me gushing about the book. I
really did love this, Thank you, I really did. I
appreciated your honesty, and I'm not surprised that you say
(16:27):
it how it is. We sort of expect that from
you if we've seen you. But with a memoir sometimes
people you just sort of nudge the truth, don't they?
Speaker 5 (16:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, So how easy was it to find that line
of what you're going to share and how are you
going to share it?
Speaker 6 (16:46):
Well, given that I'm not a writer and I much
prefer this the spoken word than it was quite a challenge.
I started out with thinking this was my opportunity to
get even you know, it was going to be a
tall all name and shame, get back to all those
people that had really got up my skin. But it
wasn't like that at all in the end. Yeah, it's
(17:07):
easy to write about your failings and the things you're
not good at it and your negatives, but it's very
hard to talk about your success and your achievements in
a book. And when the publishers that they came up
with the name of the thing my story, I thought, well,
that's a bit bland, you know, that's a bit sort
of couldn't we get something better than that? But it's
(17:28):
pretty appropriate really, because that's all it is. It's not
going to be the book a prize winner, but it
is my story.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I'd love to start by talking about Squash, just because
you have some really interesting reflections on your time in
Scott in Squash in the book. First of all, what
drove you because you understood that talent and hard work
was required, But did you always think that you could
be number one in the world.
Speaker 6 (17:54):
I always wanted to be and I thought when I
was very young that that was my destination in life.
I had a few wavering times in my teens and
my first trip to England, I thought, perhaps, you know,
I had an overinflated opinion of how good I was.
But I think if you read the story of the
(18:15):
bit about my childhood, I'd really done nothing else. I've
been surrounded by squash squash court, squash players through my
brothers from the time I can remember. That's all i'd done,
dragged around from squash court to squash court, then took
it up myself and became completely obsessed.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
So yeah, it's I.
Speaker 6 (18:32):
Mean, I honestly say that when I retired when I
was twenty nine or twenty eight even, and people say
that's prematurely young, I had done nothing else in my life,
more or less.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
I'd went to school.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Bareley, I've done a few other things, but that's really
all i'd done, you wrote.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Thirty years on, I am mortified to look back and
realize my obsession with winning. But isn't that what you
have to Don't you have to be obsessed with winning?
If you're going to be a world champion, isn't that
part of it?
Speaker 6 (19:00):
Yeah, I think I've probably reframed that and say it
wasn't my obsession with winning that was so concerning. It
was my behavior when I lost. And I only lost
a few times, so I wasn't accustomed to defeat very often.
And I think that, you know, I framed that as
an obsession with winning only because of the behavior. I mean,
I was terrible if my son's had not publicly, I
(19:23):
never spat the dummy publicly.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
I always behaved.
Speaker 6 (19:25):
I was very sportsmanlight, but behind the scenes, all with John,
all my friends, I was just diabolical. And that's what
I look back and think, gosh, you know, but again
it's all I'd ever done. And so those few times
that I did lose, which went very often, they were
catastrophic to me. And that's the part I look back
in cringe a little bit. Now.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
That is interesting because you do talk about in the
book how important it was always to be a good
sports person. So in public, you turn up to the
press conferences, take it on the chain, you deal with
it and things. So what were you really like then
behind the scenes.
Speaker 6 (19:55):
Ah, a bit of a cotcase really because I had
I think I'd only put the value of myself as
being a winner. That I only valued Devoi I thought
was only good because she was a champion squash player.
You know, I didn't value anything else that I'd had
at that stage. I know that might sound pathetic, but
(20:17):
you know it's And this is why I think the
story is so interesting, because the next thirty years there's
been so much more than those first thirty.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Absolutely, And this is only you know, the squash is
only one chapter in the box, and it only needs
to be one chapter. Yeah, Yet and yet you find
a lot Yes, absolutely Interestingly though, I was wondering in
this day and age, elite the sort of the world
of elite sport is so different. We have sports psychologists
and all these other things. Do you think that that
would have made a difference to you or do you
(20:46):
think that actually just having to get through that experience
of winning in defeat and learning how to deal with
that actually you know, was good for you in a way.
Speaker 6 (20:58):
Well, I think it. I mean I think it could
have been different. Yeah, it could have been different. I
don't think that people nowadays have to struggle to be better.
You know, they don't have to go through all of
these experiences and come out the other side to be
a better person or a better sports person. But sports
science was very new. It was I mean it was
even considered odd. I mean sports psychology. If you had
(21:18):
to go and see one of those, you know, they
people really thought you were that problem.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Yeah, and it's so different.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
I mean everyone, you know, I follow a few sites
and do a few things, and there's always a comparison
about the person before you were they who is the
greatest of all time?
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Was it you know, this person or this person or
that person of that era?
Speaker 6 (21:36):
And I just think things kept changing and improving, records
keept being broken. You're the best of the best at
your time. You know, it's wrong to compare and that's yeah,
And sport will keep advancing, and you know, I think
athletics all make the advantage of everything that's available to them.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
What did it feel like to announce your retirement. Was
that an easy decision to make.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
In the end?
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (22:00):
Yeah, on the day, I think you know, John, I
mean we had talked about it didn't completely come out
of the blue, Butdy he didn't know that I'd made
my mind up, and on the day of the final
of the World Championships in ninety two, I said to
him that morning, when louis a drawer, I was going
to retire. And I think it was quite a you know,
I'd sort of procrastinate and talked about and never thought
I was real. But yeah, it was just an amazing
(22:20):
sense of relief, really, and I think because of that
I was able that day to play. It took so
much pressure off because I had made that decision. It
didn't matter whether I won or lost. This was going
to be it. And you know, I probably couldn't have
played any better. So it was the perfect ending for me.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
And you talk about that year or two before you
made that decision, and it wasn't just the pressure of
sport that you had to deal with. There had been
a lot of grief in your family too, and you coped,
or maybe you didn't cope with a miscarriage of your
first child, by focusing on your father's serious stroke and
his recovery. All this happened, and these things, and then
(22:57):
there was an awful lot going on the squash course.
I mean it was a lot, Susan, I mean, how
did that all affect you.
Speaker 6 (23:04):
Ah, well, that the benefit I suppose of writing about
the book. I don't think in the ensuing thirty or
so years, I've ever thought about that miscarriage.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Isn't that.
Speaker 6 (23:17):
No I have, But I've only ever thought about and
wondered if it was going to be a girl, if
she was a girl, you know what I mean. People
talk about nature's that way of saying. I think just
my father's stroke was so catastrophic. I mean, who would
have thought you'd have a miscarriage and my father would
have stroked on the same day. You know, I barely
got to I barely known that I was pregnant, so
(23:37):
that was all new. And then my dad was so sick,
and I mean I describe in the book as my
ain is horrible as and it's true. Uh and again,
like it was a bit like my reaction to losing
you know, I just was pretty down on the dump.
So I didn't know how to get myself out of it.
And then you know, it's sort of I had an
(24:00):
opportunity to go back do it all again, go out
on top, go out on my termbs, you know, be
the best. I didn't want to go out having had
a bad year, and even though I had all those titles,
word have meant much to me. And then I realized
that my parents got as much joy out of playing
as probably I did in winning. And it was a
sort of goal for all of us at the end
to overcome what had been a pretty bad couple of years,
(24:20):
and it was the best year. And I'm you know,
I look at people who are champions, and sometimes the
best champions of those who have experienced some adversity and
found the strength to come back from that, and which
makes you a double champion.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I think you describe yourself in the book as an
extrovert who's also a pessimist. That you go and guns,
you know, guns blazing into things, but then you stopped
in your tracks by your own negativity. Are you still
like that? Have you overcome that?
Speaker 6 (24:49):
No? I don't think I'm ever going to overcome that.
It's a real contradiction, isn't it. A's a dichotomy of personalities.
I don't quite know. And yet I'm married to the
internal optimist, you know. Imagine being married to someone who
wakes up every single morning without fail. I think that
every day is amazing. And we've been blessed with this
(25:09):
most amazing life and how lucky are we?
Speaker 5 (25:11):
I mean even that itself is training.
Speaker 6 (25:14):
Yeah, I think it's interesting because you know, he's probably
be more introverted with that view. I'm extroverted. I think
it's uh. Yeah, I think that fear of failure or
that you know, debilitating, fear of not being good enough
or all scared of losing is just intrinsic part of
my personality. And so I'm always thinking of the what ifs,
(25:36):
you know. And it's not a it's not I mean
it's not hasn't ruined my life or anything. But it's
still like with children, you know, if my kids, I know,
my kids are away for the weekend and they're driving,
and I think, what if. You know, it's like I
don't live in the moment, you know, I tend to.
It's not not all bad, but yeah, it's something that
(25:57):
I live with.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
But that going in all guns blazing, that's because you
say yes to hard, difficult things. That's because you, like
a lot of us wouldn't even say yes in the
first place. We Oh, that just doesn't I've never done
anything like that. I'm not going to do that. But
all throughout your career, You've just said yes to things
that most of us would wouldn't even get to the
point where we'd say used to.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
Yeah, I've said yes and then later But yeah, I
mean I think I didn't really understand until I wrote
the book that's not actually normal. I thought everybody did that.
You know if something comes away, but it's not. But
that also gets yourself in a few binds. But I
think there's attributes that I've developed over the years means
(26:37):
that I always can find a way out of that.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
And nothing is unachievable in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
So if someone offers you an opportunity, you're not going
to suddenly now just sit down and do a pros
and cons last and think about it. We're just going
to go sounds like a challenge, sounds like me iman,
and then think about it later.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Yeah, I laugh.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
For someone, we were talking about me and who have affairs,
and I said that my husband would never do that
because by the time he'd written his pros and cons list,
the woman would have lost interest. But I'm not a
pros and cons list person. I'm an impulsive which doesn't
mean I don't think about things.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Will take wise counsel or whatever, usually after the event.
But yeah, I beg myself, you know, there's nothing wrong
with that.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
No, absolutely not. What'd you think of the knighthood?
Speaker 5 (27:24):
Well, it came out of the blue again, you know.
Speaker 6 (27:26):
I mean I was I think I was younger since
Edmund Hillary, so I was only thirty four or thirty five.
And you know, I came home from the hospital with
my fourth son. My mother in law was there and
she said, I never mind, Susan, he's still young enough
to try again.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
I thought, you know, and I went through the mail.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
We had snail mail in those days, and people who've
received honors will know you just get a letter from
the Governor General or the office of the Governor General,
and said that I, you know, if I was willing
to accept, which it's just like receiving a party invitation.
And my husband, who said, well, knowing how hormonial I was,
(28:04):
said we'll make sure you took the bloody right box.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
You know.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Yeah, it came completely out of the blue.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
You know.
Speaker 6 (28:09):
Obviously had goals in my life, even though I'm not
written in the Red Book, but being knighted and was
not one of them. But my mum was still alive
then and it was a huge honor and it is
still a huge honor.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, and actually you did get invited to a lot
of parties, you know, it definitely sort of there were
some perks and you got invited to some interesting events.
I was just wondering if you could tell us about
the outrageous lie you told President when you meet him.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Yeah, so I am back in the I'm just trying
to think when this back in the nineties, late nineties,
it was we New Zealand hosted APEX and so we were,
you know, hosts here to four or five hundred of
the world's leaders and whatever.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
I received this invitation.
Speaker 6 (28:49):
Ironically, you know, I get invited to lots of things,
and I'm Dame Susan. My husband doesn't have a title.
He's not Sir John. My friends called him Lady John
for a while. But I didn't see the funny side.
But I went to this event, and you know, it
was just made a weird again, you know. There I
am seated seated at the table with sadly, the late
(29:09):
Sir Edmund Hillary and Lady Hillary and the late Sir
Peter Blake and Lady Blake, and I sat next to
Chelsea Clinton and the president of Brazilian It's not that
I want to name drop, you know, normal every day
Sunday night dinner.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
But yeah, I sort of pinched.
Speaker 6 (29:24):
There was occasions like that where I pinched myself and thought,
I mean, I don't get invited to aless things anymore.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
I can promise you so there are no perks.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
But I pinched myself and I thought, who would have thought,
as a young girl growing up in Rota Road, that
I'd be invited to things like this? And President Clinton
was seated only a few meters away at a table,
and I thought, whatever happens tonight, I'm going to get
the opportunity to shake the President's hand, you know. But
he's undoubtedly the most famous person I'm probably ever going
to meet. And it wasn't sort of kind of function
(29:51):
where you went up and said, gide Belle, I'm Susie
from Rude Vegas, because probably would have got shot by
the snipers sitting in there.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
Anyway.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
I looked around the room and I saw Yasiah Beeman,
who was actually sitting at the table with the President,
and he was the current United States ambassador and I'd
met him a few months earlier, dmun Hillary's eightieth birthday,
so I shoulder taped him and I said, look, would
you mind if the opportunity presents.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
Itself, could I.
Speaker 6 (30:13):
Please be introduced and shake hands with the president. He
said sure, so later in the evening he took me
over and he introduced me by saying, mister President, this
is Dame Susan Devoy.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
She is she is? And I thought, oh my god,
what's he going to say? God, I didn't say she's
dropped her gorgeous?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
He said she is.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
New Zealand's most prolific Olympic gold medalist and I thought,
oh my god, One, I have never played in the
Olympic squash isn't the Olympics? The President probably doesn't even
know what squash is. And I was just lost for
words one of the few times in my life. And
he is very charismatic. With a very wry smile, he
looked at me and said, well, young lady, how many
(30:54):
gold medals have you won? And I thought, oh, he's
told a couple of great big pork pies in his
life and got away with it, isn't it? So I
just quickly said ten, not thinking what I actually said.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
And he looked at me very rile.
Speaker 6 (31:06):
You said, well, young ler, you must with ten you
must be the world's most prolific Olympic gold medalist. That stage,
I think I was so embarrassed and got in my
hands and knees and crawled under the table.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
I love it. Hey, look, we can't not talk to
you about your time as Race Relations Commissioner. What are
you most proud of when it comes to what you've achieved.
There were a lot of pros to that job and
your time in that job, but you also got exposed
to a pretty nasty side of New Zealanders.
Speaker 6 (31:37):
Yeah, probably revisiting all that again currently in this political environment.
Things I'm most proud of I think was always never
shirking away from holding someone to account, whoever that may be,
anyone that had a you know, made some racist, derogatory comments,
whether they be you know, public high profile figures or
(31:58):
members of the public. That's the commissioner's role actually is
to hold people account, hold people to account, and hold
this government to account. That's not always easy and sometimes
very demoralizing. Actually, I think being part of the increase
in the quota for refugees, being part although not directly
under my mandate. It's a race Relations commissioner, but they're
(32:21):
all inquiry into historic state abuse. Is something that I
feel very privileged to have been involved with. And you know,
I was going to say indirectly, but not directly, that's
a very strong example of the institutional racism that existed
and still exists in New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
So yeah, it was tough. It was tough on me personally.
Speaker 6 (32:44):
There are issues inside the commission as well, so it
wasn't always you know, I felt like sometimes I had
an internal and external battle. I leaft knowing that, you know,
a probably a better job than most people thought I was.
I think I made the New Zealand a better place
for some marginalized communities, up for the Muslim, particularly little females.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
Yeah, so there were a lot of things.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
I mean, I think the role was far broader than
what people ever saw when they just saw Susan Devoy
making a comment in the media.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
So yeah, it enriched my life. I'm feel very privileged.
Would I do it again? Not on your.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Nelle bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday session.
Great chats with Francesca Rudkin on iHeartRadio Powered by news
Talks at be.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
That was Dame Susan Dvoy. What a good woman. I
thought I knew quite a bit about Susan de Voy
before I picked up the memoir, but by goodness, there
was so much more to her. I think we've only
seen certain sides of her depending on what role she
was in at that moment. But I really warmed to
her as a person. I loved a candor, her humor,
her willingness to try new things and do hard things,
(33:59):
and her openness and interest in people, no matter who
you are. Right. Another one of my favorite guests on
the Sunday Session recently was the delightful American actor Elijah Wood.
You may know him as Frodo from the original Lord
of the Rings trilogy. We covered off a lot in
this chat, but first we started off with me giving
my thoughts about his new film Bookworm. How gorgeous is
(34:23):
this film? It's got it all. It's a beautiful family
drama and adventure flick with tension and action, it's funny,
it's got beautiful views. What more do you want when
you go to the cinema?
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Well articulated, I agree, what more do you want? I
completely agree? I'm in love with it. I've been in
love with this since the first time I read the script.
It's incredibly special. It's got, you know, fun, awkward, somewhat
in some cases bizarre, characters that intersect in the wilds
(35:00):
of New Zealand, and ultimately, at its core, in this
very sort of funny series of events that these characters
go through, it's really a father daughter story and it's
actually quite beautiful and emotional and ultimately connective at the
very end of it all. And so those things also
really appealed to me.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
You know, I've got probably a decade on you, Elijah,
and when I grew up, this is what I grew
up on, live action family films, and I feel like
since then, you know, my kids have grown up. If
you went to a family flick it was an animation.
It's so lovely to see, you know, live sort of
family action flicks.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
You're so right, And that's absolutely what inspired ants to
make the film. It's what he grew up on as well.
And I think, you know, in the in the eighties, Son,
I was born in eighty one, so eighties into the nineties,
there definitely were these films live action, you know, out
in the wilderness. Family films with like low stakes danger
(36:04):
that everybody could enjoy, and you're so right, they're really
not made anymore. And you know, after that it was
all animated films, and now it really truly is dominated
by animated films. So to sort of bring everything back
to live action and you know, throw these characters into
(36:25):
these really fun scenarios that are semi dangerous but just
enough I can sort of be enjoyed by all ages.
Was really fun to sort of engage with and kind
of imbue the film with those old.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Sensibilities because we're of course enjoying all the summer blockbusters
that come from sort of Hollywood, but a lot of
them this year seem to be sequels or remakes. And
I think that's why I leave the skilm with a
smile on my face. You know, I was just like,
I've just seen something absolutely wicked and original.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Oh that's awesome. Well, listen, I think the culture is
definitely dominated at the moment with a lot of IP
driven films, and you know, it's it's always refreshing to
walk into a cinema with characters that you don't know, uh,
in scenarios that you've not seen and let something play
(37:20):
out and go on a ride with your characters. You
know there there happen to be you know, hundreds of
movies every year that are not made by the major
studios that do engage in those dame traditions. And I'm
with you. I find I find them to be delightful,
and that this too is not you know that the
(37:41):
stakes are genuinely quite low for these characters. It's just
a fun romp in the wilderness that ultimately tells this
really wonderful story of a father trying to reconnect with
his daughter and and and I think that can be enjoyed,
you know, by the adults, where the kids can kind
of come for the you know, the wild looking for
(38:02):
the panther and the various mishaps that happened along the way.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
True Wise is such a great character. He looked a
lot of fun to play. He's an illusionist, a contemporary
maybe of David Blaine. Are you you were a fan
of illusionists? Do you know any magicians? I?
Speaker 4 (38:18):
Well, so for the film, I trained with a magician
very briefly, partially because I wanted to have a sense
of card dexterity. The thing was. I had no experience
at all. And it's really funny. Prior to making the film,
and for months before we were we were actually meant
(38:41):
to go down to New Zealand to start shooting, he
would send me videos maybe references for tricks for me
to learn. And I was in I was in the
middle of production. I was I was working on a
show called Yellow Jackets, and so I didn't have like
in my in my my mind, and just because time
and capacity, I just didn't have the capacity to like
(39:01):
jump into learning these things yet. But the clock was ticking,
and the main thing there aren't there's only really two
tricks in the film, so I didn't really have to
learn anything in particular. I just my main concern was
just dexterity, like being able to handle a deck of
(39:22):
cards with confidence in a way that looks like I
know what I'm doing. So I hopefully achieved that it was.
It was kind of terrifying because any time that you
depict a discipline that isn't your own, I think that
really seriously, and I don't I don't want it to
seem like I don't, but I haven't invested a time
or that it's flippant. So I certainly invested the time,
(39:45):
and I had cards with me all the time, and
I was shuffling them and and doing these uh these
these sort of fans with them. Uh So hopefully some
of that comes across on screen. That is that is believable.
But yes, in cancer your question, I love magicians. I
love magic, and in particular less less of the kind
(40:07):
of big showy showmanship, massive illusion magic. But the close
up card magic and sleight of hand. That's that does
it for me because it's it's so it's so unbelievably
subtle that you can't tell that your that a trick
is happening before your eyes, So it feels real. And
(40:29):
there have been so many times where a close up
magician has done something that it almost felt like wizardry.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
You know, in the film Drawn and your Daughter Mildred,
they they're newly introduced father and daughter. They head out
into the wilderness on a camping trip, and it's kind
of like the ultimate taste of family bonding. I mean,
I think going camping is a challenge even if you
you know then you know the people you're going camping with.
Are you a camping.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
I love camping yes, I have. I've been camping quite
a few times, largely on river trips, on rafting trips
with his friends. But I love sleeping outside. I don't
even know if I've ever slept in a tent. I
think I've always slept just in you know, in a
sleeping bag, on a camp mattress, just under the stars.
(41:20):
So yeah, no, I absolutely love it and feel pretty
comfortable in the wilderness. Now that being said, would I
lead a trip, you know, like I've gone with friends
who are adept at rafting, adept at handling a camp
and setting a camp up. Because I do that on
(41:41):
my own with great confidence, I can certainly learn. I
don't know that I have the skills quite but I
do feel comfortable in the wilderness for sure.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
How good as Nel Fisher, the young lady who plays
your daughter, Oh amazing, amazing.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Yeah, yeah, she's amazing. It's you know, it was. It
was quite a search. I think they saw an and
made it. Three hundred people or more for the role.
And you know, it's so important that this character of
Mildred is so vital to the storytelling. She really is
(42:18):
the focal point of the film. And then obviously then
the relationship too, and she just is that character. She's
so vibrant and so filled with life, so unbelievably smart
and precocious herself, not at all unlike her character. She
was a total delight. And you know, ninety percent of
(42:40):
the film is exteriors. We have very very few interior shops,
so we have this very small intimate crew out in
the wilds of Canterbury for the duration of the shoot,
and so it was just most of the time the
two of us tramping around in the wilderness together. And
(43:02):
I couldn't have had a better companion. She is so
so wonderful and every single day too, and I have
no capacity for this. My wife has a better capacity
for remembering these things. But she would regale us with
a new word of the day every day. And the
words were so obscure and difficult in some cases to pronounce,
(43:25):
oftentimes with more letters than it seems necessary, with really
wild definitions, and that was just so apropos that now
just naturally would also be engaging in that kind of
activity that was so similar to her character. It was
really fun. And I have since forgotten every single one
(43:48):
of those words.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
That was going to be my next question so what
was the most interesting word you learned? So I won't
go there.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
Oh, look, I've definitely forgotten.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Them all here you were a child actor. Is it
a different life on set now for kids compared to
when you started out. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (44:07):
It doesn't seem like it is. I mean, it's always
contextual because every job is different, right, The environment is
going to be different because it's the nature of the
job that it's in a new city with a new crew,
a new set of people. For the circumstances are often
not replicatable, Like it's a different atmosphere every time. So
(44:30):
I don't know if it feels different for kids now
in general, and it kind of like in a way
that feels that it can be sort of trapped throughout
the industry. Not really, I don't know. The sort of
the labor is the same. This on school, the onset schooling,
(44:54):
Like now had school that she had to do every day,
like that was very familiar. The hours are also shorter
for kids, so it's actually really interesting being on the
other side of it now as an adult to work
with with a minor, because I'm like, all right, they
can only work eight hours. There's time that has to
(45:15):
be taken up for school, and there are all these
sort of other considerations. But you know, as a kid,
you're not thinking about those things. You're just sort of
on set for the time that you are and you
go home when you're done. But in terms of the
actual environment, like I said, I think it's it's unique
to it's unique to the individuals, it's unique to the parents.
The parents set the tone largely for the children, but
(45:39):
also so does the environment of the set and the
filmmaker and the cast. You know, it becomes this sort
of family, and that's very much what we had on
this and Nell's parents. Her dad was present for a bit,
but she she had a guardian on set who is lovely,
who also helped with her key reaccents and was with
(46:03):
her at all times and was super rabs, so I
know she had a wonderful time. It's a very long
answer that isn't quite meandering. I've gotten so far away
from what you have even after.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
I love the way you're just thinking it through. What
would you do if your children said, hey, Dad, I'd
like to start acting.
Speaker 4 (46:23):
I wouldn't discourage it. I think my perspective is always
to encourage the interests of my children. So whatever they
whatever impulses, they have to encourage those impulses and if
that ultimately dovetails into the film industry in some way,
(46:44):
to not stand in the way of it. You know, Look,
I had an incredible experience. I am the sum of
my experiences as an actor, right and in addition to
other life experience that I've had. So I'm so grateful
for my child as I'm so grateful for the the
(47:06):
experiences that it afforded me. So I have no kind
of negativity associated with having been a child actor or
any time will start as a child actor. So I
only have kind of positive reference points. So yeah, I don't.
I wouldn't. I wouldn't be coming at it from a
(47:26):
perspective of well don't I wouldn't want you to do that,
because it doesn't you know, they were all great experiences,
and I would trust that they would be surrounded by
certainly you know us as parents, but also you know,
an environment that would be healthy for them. But yeah,
(47:48):
I don't know. I wouldn't. I'm not. I wouldn't go
out of my way to encourage it. But that has
more to do with wanting to make sure that they
find their own voice and do whatever they feel like
they want to do in terms of expressing themselves.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
You know, in the film, your character learns a lot
about himself through the discovery this daughter and being with
her and things. Did having kids change you? What have
you learned about yourself from your kids?
Speaker 4 (48:14):
Oh? Man, I mean you're constantly growing as a parent,
as a person, you know, Yeah, I mean it it
tests you to find patience. You know. I always thought
I was a really patient person, and I think I've
I've realized, like and I and I still am a
(48:35):
patient person, but I think it has tested that and
finding calm because there's there's chaos that is out of
your control and I don't know.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
No, that all sounds very familiar.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Yeah, listen, I think it's an it's an ongoing it's
an ongoing I'm assuming you're a parent. Yeah, yeah, it's
an ongoing process. You know, you're I think it's it's
a constant evolution. And I and I like looking at
it like that because as they grow, you are growing.
You are also learning as you go. You do not
(49:13):
step into this with all of the knowledge to just
immediately slot into being a parent. It's you know, it
initially happens where you have an idea and then you're
thrust with the reality of it, and that is an
ever evolving process, and that evolution will continue and I
(49:33):
will continue to grow as a human being along with
my child, both as a parent and as a person.
And it's important for me anyway. It's really important to
look at it that way because also there's those moments
as a parent, as I'm sure you know, where you're like,
I can't imagine another night like this, or you know,
this is so hard, and then you kind of you know,
(49:56):
one of the best pieces of advice that I ever
heard about parenting is like, just know that it doesn't
it doesn't last. Like this is a phase and that
will end, and then it will be something new you'll
have to learn how to adapt to and grow with.
And so yeah, it's total ever evolution.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
You know, so true. Elijah, thank you so much for
your time and for the absolutely delightful film.
Speaker 4 (50:22):
Oh thank you. I'm so glad you enjoyed it. Thank
you for.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
The best guest from the Sunday session Great Jazz with
Francesca rudget on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks it'd be
that was.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Elijah would so lovely right. I mean, I think if
there was a theme for today's Great Chats it would
be humble Superstars. Elijah was so chatty and open both
before and after, you know the recording of that interview.
The kind of feel well them off like an old
mate that I expect to catch up was soon. I
don't know the guy, I've never met the guy. Anyway,
(50:54):
I loved hearing him talk about how being a child
star with such a positive experience for him, because there
are so many cautionary tales out there right and you know,
if you have the right people around you and keep
your feet on the ground growing up and show business
doesn't need to ruin you. Hey, thanks for joining me
on this News Talks He'd Be podcast. Please feel free
to share these chats, and if you liked this podcast,
(51:15):
make sure you follow us on iHeartRadio wherever you get
your podcasts, and I'll catch you next time on Great Chats.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks It'd Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. The big names, the fascinating guests,
the thoughtful conversations, bringing you the best interviews from the
Sunday Session. This is Great Chats with Francesca Rudkins, powered
(00:27):
by News Talks at b HI and.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to the summer edition of Great Chats. I'm Francesca
Budkin and in this podcast we bring you some of
the best feature interviews from the Sunday Session on News Talks.
He'b throughout twenty twenty four. Kicking us off today is
a man who needs little introduction, Comedian, author and TV
personality David Wellhams. He had a very busy twenty twenty four.
He had a new book out and he toured New
(00:51):
Zealand and that is where we started the conversation. Let's
start with the tour. You're doing a tour for adults
and a tour for kids, which is very generous.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Game tour. It's the same tour, but the kids and
family shows in the daytime and then the one that's
more adult orientated is in the evening. Because I announced
the show for grown ups in the evenings and lots
of messages saying is there's going to be suitable for
my young children, and I thought it would be really
(01:22):
nice to do a special books orientated show because obvious
they have a lot of fans young readers. So so yeah,
family shows during the days and evening shows in the nights.
It's not that the evening show is going to be
really really rude, but if you've got an eight year
old who likes my books, it's not quite right with
them because there'll be some adult themes. Nothing too rude,
(01:46):
but you know, it's it's they'll have to stay up
very late to sit through the adult show.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Which do you prefer. I wonder whether you've got a
little bit more license with the kids show to have
a bit of fun, to be a bit more ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Well, I'm proud of my books, and it's obviously a
thrill that I've got so many any young fans around
the world, and so that will always feel really special
to me. And I think there's more of a sense
with kids that you can try and influence them with
positive messages and things, whereas as adults were all sort
of set in our ways, aren't we and all that
(02:23):
goodness has drained out of us. And I think there
is a sort of atmosphere you get with a room
full of kids that is hard to replicate because I
go out to the audience and I ask the kids.
I say, I'm doing research for my new book, The
World's Worst Children for And has anyone got a brother
or sister they'd like to nominate to be in the book. Well,
(02:45):
you can imagine, you know, a thousand hands go up
at once, and everyone's leaping up and down their chairs
because they want to say something. And there's swing about
when kids get excited that even in the most sort
of I don't know, the biggest shows I've ever done
for grown ups, it's not quite the same as the
shrieking and jumping up and down that you get with kids.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Do you take quick from the children?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yes, I'm going to take questions on both shows, and
there are prizes for the best questions for the kids,
And yeah, I like I always like there being a
spontaneous element to the show because I think that that's
when you're thinking on your feet, and that's sometimes when
you can be at your funniest. And also I think
people know that it's spontaneous, so they know that you
(03:30):
are coming up with it at that moment in time,
and it keeps you on your toes because there's a
danger if you do a show lots of times that
you start to sort of think, oh, okay, it's like
muscle memory. I do this bit, I do that bit.
But even when we did a Little Britain Life to it,
we built in lots of improvisation because we needed to
keep it fresh for us and to keep it funny
(03:52):
for us. So and I just like that anarchic part.
And sometimes people get the better of you with like
funny questions and things like that, which is great. And
sometimes kids come up on the stage and I say,
who's your favorite author, thinking that they might say me
because I'm standing in front of them, but then they
say they say JK. Rowling, is that she's not here?
(04:12):
Who's your second davorite author?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
You know?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
And I just love that with kids because obviously all
the parents really like it when the kids say silly.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Things you're asking, so really yeah, So I.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Look, I look forward to those parts of the shows
very much, and I think they're necessary because also I
think the audiences want to be part of the show.
I mean, even you go to comedy clubs and things,
people always shouting things out. People always want to be
part of the show. So I'm very happy to accommodate that.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I love it. You've recently released Estrochimp, Did We Really?
Which is your first, I should say, your first graphic
novel or sort of more along the lines of a
comic book and things. What lead you to this? Why
did you sort of make a bit of a change
with this book book.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I'd had this idea for a long time. I wanted
to write something about all the animals that were sent
into space, because it's quite an interesting story. It starts
with fruit flies, believe it or not. And then there's
the ones that people know about, which is the dog,
like the chimpanzee ham from America, and I thought, even
(05:21):
the French sent a cat into space, which sounds very French.
And I thought, okay, so the real stories, you know,
sometimes tinged with a bit of tragedy because the animals
didn't make it home safely. But I thought, if I
create a sort of imaginary world where some of the
same animals center into space and it's about their adventures,
you know, like one hundred years into the future, they've
(05:43):
all survived and they're all sort of battling each other.
And because it was set in space and because it
was animals, I was really thinking of it in terms
of like an animated movie, and I think the closest
you can get to that is a comic book or
graphic novel you ever want to call it. So it
felt completely right. I mean, sometimes the form the story
(06:04):
dictates the form a bit. Know, my new book is
a murder mystery. It just got an outsake called super Sleuth,
and so that really feels like a novel, you know,
because it's in the it's in the realms of obviously
not what's good ass, but it takes its que from
Sharlock Holmes, Agatha Christie, So it felt right. But this
one's space and animals and lots of action. It just
(06:26):
felt right for to be as visual as possible.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And beautifully illustrated.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I didn't do those, but thank you Adam Stower has
done a brilliant job illustrating it. And also I feel,
because I've been pretty prolific and written lots of books,
I always feel like I want to give the audience
something as fresh as as I possibly can. So changing
the form really helps that. I like to have original stories.
(06:56):
You know, I'm scared of repeating myself because I'm actually
on like book forty one or something like that. I'm like, Okay,
you need to go into the deep recesses of your imagination,
and you need to find different ways to tell a story,
and you need to make sure you're not going over
old ground. So yes, I like, I mean, I'd never
(07:16):
written a murder mystery before. Spaceboy is set in nineteen
sixties America. I've got short stories in the World's Worst Children.
I've got Beast of Buckingham Palace, which is in the future,
you know. And I feel like some of these sort
of I don't know, almost like challenges I set myself
bring out the best in me.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Which one did you write in a Venus gel jail cell?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
All of them?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
All of them?
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I wrote in No, I just wrote basically, I was
I brought my wrong passport to Italy. I was on
a trip to Venice and it wasn't discovered until I
arrived at Venice, and so they basically canted me off
and locked me up in this shell cell. And anyway,
(08:03):
but the lucky thing was I was allowed to keep
my handluggage with me, and I had my computer and
I was in there for seven hours. Only one point
did they come in and say would you like a
bottle of water?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
That was it, And they were quite.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Even though I clearly wasn't like going to cause any trouble.
You know, I wasn't smuggling anything into the country or anything.
But I think they rather enjoyed, you know, making my
life quite difficult. So and so I thought, Okay, don't
worry about this, David, You've got seven hours on your
own to write, which is what I did. I knew
(08:37):
it would be a long time because I knew they
had to send me back on the next plane, which
wasn't until late that night. So and so, yes, I
got deported, but before that I got to write quite
a lot of astrochin. But I mean people often say,
you know, have you got somewhere to write? Like Rol
Dale had a writing shed, And I think the main
thing is you want to be alone. And I've never
felt more alone in prison.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
So Italy, well, if you're struggling next time on the
next book, you know where you need to be, don't
you Encouraging reluctant readers. Is a really big goal for you,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yes, I'm going to go into schools up and down
the United Kingdom, and if I find myself somewhere, I
wouldn't normally be because I'm working there. I was thinking,
let's find a school, you know, because it's all very well.
I live in London just to go to schools in London,
but I want to go to schools everywhere. And I
asked the publishers, let's find it underprivileged school, because again
(09:33):
you don't want to preach the converted. You know, of
private school kids are more likely to have access to books,
and in fact, they certainly are. And I go into
schools and you know, it's fantastic. There's lots of kids read,
but there's many that don't. And I feel like if
we don't, if us authors don't grab their imaginations when
they're eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, chances are they're never
(09:55):
going to read as growing up. So they're going to
miss out on a lot. Because reading isn't just about
reading more books, you know, it's it's stories are about
empathy and they teach us important lessons. So I think that, So, yeah,
I've always thought, let's try and reach those reluctant readers.
So I started off with books like Boy in the
(10:15):
Dress and Mister Stink that you know very much novels.
And then I thought, when I went into school in
Glasgow in Scotland and there was some sort of grumpy
boys at the back who hated books, I thought, I
want to write a book that will get you reading.
And that's why I came up with the World's Worst Children.
It was halfway between a comic book and and you know,
(10:39):
one of the books I've already produced, and I thought,
let's make it as visual as possible, let's make it
as silly as possible. There's no big important themes like
there are in some of my stories. It's just fun.
And that's why I came up with those books. And
you know, most days some parent comes up from in
the street and says thank you for your books, because
(11:02):
I couldn't get my child to read before they read
one of yours. So I sort of I feel like
that's an important You know, that for me is an
important part of what I want to do, because there
are I know, much greater works of literature out there
than mine. But I feel like Hopefully my books are
the ones that will get kids reading and then they're
(11:24):
going to go on to more challenging work.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I mentioned to my son yesterday that I was going
to interview to you today. He's about to turn eighteen,
and he was so excited and he started reminiscing about
your books and things, and I thought, that is so lovely.
He may no longer be a captive audience, but he's
still a big fan. That's pretty cool, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Well, it is very cool. But I think you never
forget the books that you read as a kid and
what they meant to you, especially if you weren't a
voracious reader. But you never forget the first book that
you read all by yourself, and the ones that made
you laugh, and the ones that got you know, got
you reading more and more and more. So yeah, I
mean I have forgotten the books that I read and
(12:06):
loved as a kid, and I still treasure them and
sometimes I reread them, and being the father of an
eleven year old boy, I had the chance to read
them all again and read lots of ones that I'd
missed because maybe they were published you know, a bit
later or than you know, after my childhood, or I
just missed them, because you often think, oh, yeah, I know,
(12:28):
Peter Pan, I've seen the Disney movie, but have you
actually read the novel An Alice in Wonderland? Is when
that's very familiar to all of us, but not all
of us have read. So I have a lot of pleasure.
I really love reading children's books, and especially sharing them
with my son. So and obviously, you know, there's a
lot of nostalgia there when I'm returning to books that
(12:49):
I loved.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
You've got so much going on at the moment, but
one thing you are doing is working on a new
show with your Little Britain coaster met Lucas. Now Little
Britain isn't coming back. This is new material.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yes, it's new because we wanted when we did Comply
with Me, which followed a little bit, and we had
a whole new cast of characters and it was exciting
to do that, you know, And so that is what
we're doing at the moment. It's creating a whole new
cast of characters, completely new sketches, and it's quite freeing
that because you're you know, you're not trying to emulate something,
(13:24):
you're not trying to sort of guess second, guess what
people might want to see. You're just following your own
instincts and trying to create something original. And when you
find something that you believe in, it's very exciting. I mean,
because the books I write on my own and so
the downside of that is it's solitary, you know, And
(13:47):
when I write with Matt is that we meet up,
we have a chat about what we saw on TV
last night, We you know, eat some class arms. Eventually
we get around to doing some work, you know, and
then I'm sort of trying to make him laugh. He's
trying to make me laugh. If we're laughing together, we think,
oh we might have something that other people might laugh
at too. So it's quite a pleasurable. Well, it's a
(14:10):
more pleasurable experience, well because it's sociable because we've got
someone to have lunch with.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Maybe you two both need to be in a jailt
cell together. Finally, just looking at everything that you are doing,
do you love the creative license your career gives you
in all these different areas.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, I think that's what probably binds everything together, is
being creative. And I feel very privileged, you know, to
have a job that I love, and you often think,
you know, when you're starting out, you're going to run
out of ideas, but luckily it hasn't happened yet. And
also I think I feel very lucky because I've had
(14:49):
different stages to my career. It's been sketch comedy, had
ten years as a judge on Britain's Got Talent, sort
of like as a TV personality I suppose, and a
children's author as well, and I'm sort of all of
these have been very excited, are very exciting, but I
do feel sometimes, oh, what's the next chapter?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
We shall all wait and see. Thank you so much
for your time. Really lovely to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Thank you, and lovely to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
The biggest names from the Sunday session Great chats with
Brancheska Rudkin on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks at b That.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Was the irrepressible David Wellhams. Gosh, A, you're feeling like
maybe you should have a few more projects on the go.
That man, he just never stops. I'm not sure what
I would get done in a venice. Jel Cell probably
just read a book as opposed to write one, regardless
of with you like his world of bottom bangers and
bottom burps and undercrackers. Yes, they are things you must
(15:43):
admire the way authors like David have borden what's available
for kids to read and to write books that keep
them engaged. There is nothing better than kids wanting to read.
And I love the way that the kids then in
return keep him on his toes at his shows. My
next guest on Great Chats is the formidable Dame Susan
Devoi Winos. Susan as a world champion squash player, a
(16:04):
race relations commissioner, a CEO, and a reality TV star,
and throughout all of these roles she has been frank
and honest. But when I read her memoir this year,
I had no idea how funny she was. Anyway, we
started the chat with me gushing about the book. I
really did love this, Thank you, I really did. I
appreciated your honesty, and I'm not surprised that you say
(16:27):
it how it is. We sort of expect that from
you if we've seen you. But with a memoir sometimes
people you just sort of nudge the truth, don't they?
Speaker 5 (16:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, So how easy was it to find that line
of what you're going to share and how are you
going to share it?
Speaker 6 (16:46):
Well, given that I'm not a writer and I much
prefer this the spoken word than it was quite a challenge.
I started out with thinking this was my opportunity to
get even you know, it was going to be a
tall all name and shame, get back to all those
people that had really got up my skin. But it
wasn't like that at all in the end. Yeah, it's
(17:07):
easy to write about your failings and the things you're
not good at it and your negatives, but it's very
hard to talk about your success and your achievements in
a book. And when the publishers that they came up
with the name of the thing my story, I thought, well,
that's a bit bland, you know, that's a bit sort
of couldn't we get something better than that? But it's
(17:28):
pretty appropriate really, because that's all it is. It's not
going to be the book a prize winner, but it
is my story.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I'd love to start by talking about Squash, just because
you have some really interesting reflections on your time in
Scott in Squash in the book. First of all, what
drove you because you understood that talent and hard work
was required, But did you always think that you could
be number one in the world.
Speaker 6 (17:54):
I always wanted to be and I thought when I
was very young that that was my destination in life.
I had a few wavering times in my teens and
my first trip to England, I thought, perhaps, you know,
I had an overinflated opinion of how good I was.
But I think if you read the story of the
(18:15):
bit about my childhood, I'd really done nothing else. I've
been surrounded by squash squash court, squash players through my
brothers from the time I can remember. That's all i'd done,
dragged around from squash court to squash court, then took
it up myself and became completely obsessed.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
So yeah, it's I.
Speaker 6 (18:32):
Mean, I honestly say that when I retired when I
was twenty nine or twenty eight even, and people say
that's prematurely young, I had done nothing else in my life,
more or less.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
I'd went to school.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Bareley, I've done a few other things, but that's really
all i'd done, you wrote.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Thirty years on, I am mortified to look back and
realize my obsession with winning. But isn't that what you
have to Don't you have to be obsessed with winning?
If you're going to be a world champion, isn't that
part of it?
Speaker 6 (19:00):
Yeah, I think I've probably reframed that and say it
wasn't my obsession with winning that was so concerning. It
was my behavior when I lost. And I only lost
a few times, so I wasn't accustomed to defeat very often.
And I think that, you know, I framed that as
an obsession with winning only because of the behavior. I mean,
I was terrible if my son's had not publicly, I
(19:23):
never spat the dummy publicly.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
I always behaved.
Speaker 6 (19:25):
I was very sportsmanlight, but behind the scenes, all with John,
all my friends, I was just diabolical. And that's what
I look back and think, gosh, you know, but again
it's all I'd ever done. And so those few times
that I did lose, which went very often, they were
catastrophic to me. And that's the part I look back
in cringe a little bit. Now.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
That is interesting because you do talk about in the
book how important it was always to be a good
sports person. So in public, you turn up to the
press conferences, take it on the chain, you deal with
it and things. So what were you really like then
behind the scenes.
Speaker 6 (19:55):
Ah, a bit of a cotcase really because I had
I think I'd only put the value of myself as
being a winner. That I only valued Devoi I thought
was only good because she was a champion squash player.
You know, I didn't value anything else that I'd had
at that stage. I know that might sound pathetic, but
(20:17):
you know it's And this is why I think the
story is so interesting, because the next thirty years there's
been so much more than those first thirty.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Absolutely, And this is only you know, the squash is
only one chapter in the box, and it only needs
to be one chapter. Yeah, Yet and yet you find
a lot Yes, absolutely Interestingly though, I was wondering in
this day and age, elite the sort of the world
of elite sport is so different. We have sports psychologists
and all these other things. Do you think that that
would have made a difference to you or do you
(20:46):
think that actually just having to get through that experience
of winning in defeat and learning how to deal with
that actually you know, was good for you in a way.
Speaker 6 (20:58):
Well, I think it. I mean I think it could
have been different. Yeah, it could have been different. I
don't think that people nowadays have to struggle to be better.
You know, they don't have to go through all of
these experiences and come out the other side to be
a better person or a better sports person. But sports
science was very new. It was I mean it was
even considered odd. I mean sports psychology. If you had
(21:18):
to go and see one of those, you know, they
people really thought you were that problem.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Yeah, and it's so different.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
I mean everyone, you know, I follow a few sites
and do a few things, and there's always a comparison
about the person before you were they who is the
greatest of all time?
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Was it you know, this person or this person or
that person of that era?
Speaker 6 (21:36):
And I just think things kept changing and improving, records
keept being broken. You're the best of the best at
your time. You know, it's wrong to compare and that's yeah,
And sport will keep advancing, and you know, I think
athletics all make the advantage of everything that's available to them.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
What did it feel like to announce your retirement. Was
that an easy decision to make.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
In the end?
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (22:00):
Yeah, on the day, I think you know, John, I
mean we had talked about it didn't completely come out
of the blue, Butdy he didn't know that I'd made
my mind up, and on the day of the final
of the World Championships in ninety two, I said to
him that morning, when louis a drawer, I was going
to retire. And I think it was quite a you know,
I'd sort of procrastinate and talked about and never thought
I was real. But yeah, it was just an amazing
(22:20):
sense of relief, really, and I think because of that
I was able that day to play. It took so
much pressure off because I had made that decision. It
didn't matter whether I won or lost. This was going
to be it. And you know, I probably couldn't have
played any better. So it was the perfect ending for me.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
And you talk about that year or two before you
made that decision, and it wasn't just the pressure of
sport that you had to deal with. There had been
a lot of grief in your family too, and you coped,
or maybe you didn't cope with a miscarriage of your
first child, by focusing on your father's serious stroke and
his recovery. All this happened, and these things, and then
(22:57):
there was an awful lot going on the squash course.
I mean it was a lot, Susan, I mean, how
did that all affect you.
Speaker 6 (23:04):
Ah, well, that the benefit I suppose of writing about
the book. I don't think in the ensuing thirty or
so years, I've ever thought about that miscarriage.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Isn't that.
Speaker 6 (23:17):
No I have, But I've only ever thought about and
wondered if it was going to be a girl, if
she was a girl, you know what I mean. People
talk about nature's that way of saying. I think just
my father's stroke was so catastrophic. I mean, who would
have thought you'd have a miscarriage and my father would
have stroked on the same day. You know, I barely
got to I barely known that I was pregnant, so
(23:37):
that was all new. And then my dad was so sick,
and I mean I describe in the book as my
ain is horrible as and it's true. Uh and again,
like it was a bit like my reaction to losing
you know, I just was pretty down on the dump.
So I didn't know how to get myself out of it.
And then you know, it's sort of I had an
(24:00):
opportunity to go back do it all again, go out
on top, go out on my termbs, you know, be
the best. I didn't want to go out having had
a bad year, and even though I had all those titles,
word have meant much to me. And then I realized
that my parents got as much joy out of playing
as probably I did in winning. And it was a
sort of goal for all of us at the end
to overcome what had been a pretty bad couple of years,
(24:20):
and it was the best year. And I'm you know,
I look at people who are champions, and sometimes the
best champions of those who have experienced some adversity and
found the strength to come back from that, and which
makes you a double champion.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I think you describe yourself in the book as an
extrovert who's also a pessimist. That you go and guns,
you know, guns blazing into things, but then you stopped
in your tracks by your own negativity. Are you still
like that? Have you overcome that?
Speaker 6 (24:49):
No? I don't think I'm ever going to overcome that.
It's a real contradiction, isn't it. A's a dichotomy of personalities.
I don't quite know. And yet I'm married to the
internal optimist, you know. Imagine being married to someone who
wakes up every single morning without fail. I think that
every day is amazing. And we've been blessed with this
(25:09):
most amazing life and how lucky are we?
Speaker 5 (25:11):
I mean even that itself is training.
Speaker 6 (25:14):
Yeah, I think it's interesting because you know, he's probably
be more introverted with that view. I'm extroverted. I think
it's uh. Yeah, I think that fear of failure or
that you know, debilitating, fear of not being good enough
or all scared of losing is just intrinsic part of
my personality. And so I'm always thinking of the what ifs,
(25:36):
you know. And it's not a it's not I mean
it's not hasn't ruined my life or anything. But it's
still like with children, you know, if my kids, I know,
my kids are away for the weekend and they're driving,
and I think, what if. You know, it's like I
don't live in the moment, you know, I tend to.
It's not not all bad, but yeah, it's something that
(25:57):
I live with.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
But that going in all guns blazing, that's because you
say yes to hard, difficult things. That's because you, like
a lot of us wouldn't even say yes in the
first place. We Oh, that just doesn't I've never done
anything like that. I'm not going to do that. But
all throughout your career, You've just said yes to things
that most of us would wouldn't even get to the
point where we'd say used to.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
Yeah, I've said yes and then later But yeah, I
mean I think I didn't really understand until I wrote
the book that's not actually normal. I thought everybody did that.
You know if something comes away, but it's not. But
that also gets yourself in a few binds. But I
think there's attributes that I've developed over the years means
(26:37):
that I always can find a way out of that.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
And nothing is unachievable in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
So if someone offers you an opportunity, you're not going
to suddenly now just sit down and do a pros
and cons last and think about it. We're just going
to go sounds like a challenge, sounds like me iman,
and then think about it later.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Yeah, I laugh.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
For someone, we were talking about me and who have affairs,
and I said that my husband would never do that
because by the time he'd written his pros and cons list,
the woman would have lost interest. But I'm not a
pros and cons list person. I'm an impulsive which doesn't
mean I don't think about things.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Will take wise counsel or whatever, usually after the event.
But yeah, I beg myself, you know, there's nothing wrong
with that.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
No, absolutely not. What'd you think of the knighthood?
Speaker 5 (27:24):
Well, it came out of the blue again, you know.
Speaker 6 (27:26):
I mean I was I think I was younger since
Edmund Hillary, so I was only thirty four or thirty five.
And you know, I came home from the hospital with
my fourth son. My mother in law was there and
she said, I never mind, Susan, he's still young enough
to try again.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
I thought, you know, and I went through the mail.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
We had snail mail in those days, and people who've
received honors will know you just get a letter from
the Governor General or the office of the Governor General,
and said that I, you know, if I was willing
to accept, which it's just like receiving a party invitation.
And my husband, who said, well, knowing how hormonial I was,
(28:04):
said we'll make sure you took the bloody right box.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
You know.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Yeah, it came completely out of the blue.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
You know.
Speaker 6 (28:09):
Obviously had goals in my life, even though I'm not
written in the Red Book, but being knighted and was
not one of them. But my mum was still alive
then and it was a huge honor and it is
still a huge honor.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, and actually you did get invited to a lot
of parties, you know, it definitely sort of there were
some perks and you got invited to some interesting events.
I was just wondering if you could tell us about
the outrageous lie you told President when you meet him.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Yeah, so I am back in the I'm just trying
to think when this back in the nineties, late nineties,
it was we New Zealand hosted APEX and so we were,
you know, hosts here to four or five hundred of
the world's leaders and whatever.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
I received this invitation.
Speaker 6 (28:49):
Ironically, you know, I get invited to lots of things,
and I'm Dame Susan. My husband doesn't have a title.
He's not Sir John. My friends called him Lady John
for a while. But I didn't see the funny side.
But I went to this event, and you know, it
was just made a weird again, you know. There I
am seated seated at the table with sadly, the late
(29:09):
Sir Edmund Hillary and Lady Hillary and the late Sir
Peter Blake and Lady Blake, and I sat next to
Chelsea Clinton and the president of Brazilian It's not that
I want to name drop, you know, normal every day
Sunday night dinner.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
But yeah, I sort of pinched.
Speaker 6 (29:24):
There was occasions like that where I pinched myself and thought,
I mean, I don't get invited to aless things anymore.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
I can promise you so there are no perks.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
But I pinched myself and I thought, who would have thought,
as a young girl growing up in Rota Road, that
I'd be invited to things like this? And President Clinton
was seated only a few meters away at a table,
and I thought, whatever happens tonight, I'm going to get
the opportunity to shake the President's hand, you know. But
he's undoubtedly the most famous person I'm probably ever going
to meet. And it wasn't sort of kind of function
(29:51):
where you went up and said, gide Belle, I'm Susie
from Rude Vegas, because probably would have got shot by
the snipers sitting in there.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
Anyway.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
I looked around the room and I saw Yasiah Beeman,
who was actually sitting at the table with the President,
and he was the current United States ambassador and I'd
met him a few months earlier, dmun Hillary's eightieth birthday,
so I shoulder taped him and I said, look, would
you mind if the opportunity presents.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
Itself, could I.
Speaker 6 (30:13):
Please be introduced and shake hands with the president. He
said sure, so later in the evening he took me
over and he introduced me by saying, mister President, this
is Dame Susan Devoy.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
She is she is? And I thought, oh my god,
what's he going to say? God, I didn't say she's
dropped her gorgeous?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
He said she is.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
New Zealand's most prolific Olympic gold medalist and I thought,
oh my god, One, I have never played in the
Olympic squash isn't the Olympics? The President probably doesn't even
know what squash is. And I was just lost for
words one of the few times in my life. And
he is very charismatic. With a very wry smile, he
looked at me and said, well, young lady, how many
(30:54):
gold medals have you won? And I thought, oh, he's
told a couple of great big pork pies in his
life and got away with it, isn't it? So I
just quickly said ten, not thinking what I actually said.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
And he looked at me very rile.
Speaker 6 (31:06):
You said, well, young ler, you must with ten you
must be the world's most prolific Olympic gold medalist. That stage,
I think I was so embarrassed and got in my
hands and knees and crawled under the table.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
I love it. Hey, look, we can't not talk to
you about your time as Race Relations Commissioner. What are
you most proud of when it comes to what you've achieved.
There were a lot of pros to that job and
your time in that job, but you also got exposed
to a pretty nasty side of New Zealanders.
Speaker 6 (31:37):
Yeah, probably revisiting all that again currently in this political environment.
Things I'm most proud of I think was always never
shirking away from holding someone to account, whoever that may be,
anyone that had a you know, made some racist, derogatory comments,
whether they be you know, public high profile figures or
(31:58):
members of the public. That's the commissioner's role actually is
to hold people account, hold people to account, and hold
this government to account. That's not always easy and sometimes
very demoralizing. Actually, I think being part of the increase
in the quota for refugees, being part although not directly
under my mandate. It's a race Relations commissioner, but they're
(32:21):
all inquiry into historic state abuse. Is something that I
feel very privileged to have been involved with. And you know,
I was going to say indirectly, but not directly, that's
a very strong example of the institutional racism that existed
and still exists in New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
So yeah, it was tough. It was tough on me personally.
Speaker 6 (32:44):
There are issues inside the commission as well, so it
wasn't always you know, I felt like sometimes I had
an internal and external battle. I leaft knowing that, you know,
a probably a better job than most people thought I was.
I think I made the New Zealand a better place
for some marginalized communities, up for the Muslim, particularly little females.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
Yeah, so there were a lot of things.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
I mean, I think the role was far broader than
what people ever saw when they just saw Susan Devoy
making a comment in the media.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
So yeah, it enriched my life. I'm feel very privileged.
Would I do it again? Not on your.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Nelle bringing you the best interviews from the Sunday session.
Great chats with Francesca Rudkin on iHeartRadio Powered by news
Talks at be.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
That was Dame Susan Dvoy. What a good woman. I
thought I knew quite a bit about Susan de Voy
before I picked up the memoir, but by goodness, there
was so much more to her. I think we've only
seen certain sides of her depending on what role she
was in at that moment. But I really warmed to
her as a person. I loved a candor, her humor,
her willingness to try new things and do hard things,
(33:59):
and her openness and interest in people, no matter who
you are. Right. Another one of my favorite guests on
the Sunday Session recently was the delightful American actor Elijah Wood.
You may know him as Frodo from the original Lord
of the Rings trilogy. We covered off a lot in
this chat, but first we started off with me giving
my thoughts about his new film Bookworm. How gorgeous is
(34:23):
this film? It's got it all. It's a beautiful family
drama and adventure flick with tension and action, it's funny,
it's got beautiful views. What more do you want when
you go to the cinema?
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Well articulated, I agree, what more do you want? I
completely agree? I'm in love with it. I've been in
love with this since the first time I read the script.
It's incredibly special. It's got, you know, fun, awkward, somewhat
in some cases bizarre, characters that intersect in the wilds
(35:00):
of New Zealand, and ultimately, at its core, in this
very sort of funny series of events that these characters
go through, it's really a father daughter story and it's
actually quite beautiful and emotional and ultimately connective at the
very end of it all. And so those things also
really appealed to me.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
You know, I've got probably a decade on you, Elijah,
and when I grew up, this is what I grew
up on, live action family films, and I feel like
since then, you know, my kids have grown up. If
you went to a family flick it was an animation.
It's so lovely to see, you know, live sort of
family action flicks.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
You're so right, And that's absolutely what inspired ants to
make the film. It's what he grew up on as well.
And I think, you know, in the in the eighties, Son,
I was born in eighty one, so eighties into the nineties,
there definitely were these films live action, you know, out
in the wilderness. Family films with like low stakes danger
(36:04):
that everybody could enjoy, and you're so right, they're really
not made anymore. And you know, after that it was
all animated films, and now it really truly is dominated
by animated films. So to sort of bring everything back
to live action and you know, throw these characters into
(36:25):
these really fun scenarios that are semi dangerous but just
enough I can sort of be enjoyed by all ages.
Was really fun to sort of engage with and kind
of imbue the film with those old.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Sensibilities because we're of course enjoying all the summer blockbusters
that come from sort of Hollywood, but a lot of
them this year seem to be sequels or remakes. And
I think that's why I leave the skilm with a
smile on my face. You know, I was just like,
I've just seen something absolutely wicked and original.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Oh that's awesome. Well, listen, I think the culture is
definitely dominated at the moment with a lot of IP
driven films, and you know, it's it's always refreshing to
walk into a cinema with characters that you don't know, uh,
in scenarios that you've not seen and let something play
(37:20):
out and go on a ride with your characters. You
know there there happen to be you know, hundreds of
movies every year that are not made by the major
studios that do engage in those dame traditions. And I'm
with you. I find I find them to be delightful,
and that this too is not you know that the
(37:41):
stakes are genuinely quite low for these characters. It's just
a fun romp in the wilderness that ultimately tells this
really wonderful story of a father trying to reconnect with
his daughter and and and I think that can be enjoyed,
you know, by the adults, where the kids can kind
of come for the you know, the wild looking for
(38:02):
the panther and the various mishaps that happened along the way.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
True Wise is such a great character. He looked a
lot of fun to play. He's an illusionist, a contemporary
maybe of David Blaine. Are you you were a fan
of illusionists? Do you know any magicians? I?
Speaker 4 (38:18):
Well, so for the film, I trained with a magician
very briefly, partially because I wanted to have a sense
of card dexterity. The thing was. I had no experience
at all. And it's really funny. Prior to making the film,
and for months before we were we were actually meant
(38:41):
to go down to New Zealand to start shooting, he
would send me videos maybe references for tricks for me
to learn. And I was in I was in the
middle of production. I was I was working on a
show called Yellow Jackets, and so I didn't have like
in my in my my mind, and just because time
and capacity, I just didn't have the capacity to like
(39:01):
jump into learning these things yet. But the clock was ticking,
and the main thing there aren't there's only really two
tricks in the film, so I didn't really have to
learn anything in particular. I just my main concern was
just dexterity, like being able to handle a deck of
(39:22):
cards with confidence in a way that looks like I
know what I'm doing. So I hopefully achieved that it was.
It was kind of terrifying because any time that you
depict a discipline that isn't your own, I think that
really seriously, and I don't I don't want it to
seem like I don't, but I haven't invested a time
or that it's flippant. So I certainly invested the time,
(39:45):
and I had cards with me all the time, and
I was shuffling them and and doing these uh these
these sort of fans with them. Uh So hopefully some
of that comes across on screen. That is that is believable.
But yes, in cancer your question, I love magicians. I
love magic, and in particular less less of the kind
(40:07):
of big showy showmanship, massive illusion magic. But the close
up card magic and sleight of hand. That's that does
it for me because it's it's so it's so unbelievably
subtle that you can't tell that your that a trick
is happening before your eyes, So it feels real. And
(40:29):
there have been so many times where a close up
magician has done something that it almost felt like wizardry.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
You know, in the film Drawn and your Daughter Mildred,
they they're newly introduced father and daughter. They head out
into the wilderness on a camping trip, and it's kind
of like the ultimate taste of family bonding. I mean,
I think going camping is a challenge even if you
you know then you know the people you're going camping with.
Are you a camping.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
I love camping yes, I have. I've been camping quite
a few times, largely on river trips, on rafting trips
with his friends. But I love sleeping outside. I don't
even know if I've ever slept in a tent. I
think I've always slept just in you know, in a
sleeping bag, on a camp mattress, just under the stars.
(41:20):
So yeah, no, I absolutely love it and feel pretty
comfortable in the wilderness. Now that being said, would I
lead a trip, you know, like I've gone with friends
who are adept at rafting, adept at handling a camp
and setting a camp up. Because I do that on
(41:41):
my own with great confidence, I can certainly learn. I
don't know that I have the skills quite but I
do feel comfortable in the wilderness for sure.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
How good as Nel Fisher, the young lady who plays
your daughter, Oh amazing, amazing.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Yeah, yeah, she's amazing. It's you know, it was. It
was quite a search. I think they saw an and
made it. Three hundred people or more for the role.
And you know, it's so important that this character of
Mildred is so vital to the storytelling. She really is
(42:18):
the focal point of the film. And then obviously then
the relationship too, and she just is that character. She's
so vibrant and so filled with life, so unbelievably smart
and precocious herself, not at all unlike her character. She
was a total delight. And you know, ninety percent of
(42:40):
the film is exteriors. We have very very few interior shops,
so we have this very small intimate crew out in
the wilds of Canterbury for the duration of the shoot,
and so it was just most of the time the
two of us tramping around in the wilderness together. And
(43:02):
I couldn't have had a better companion. She is so
so wonderful and every single day too, and I have
no capacity for this. My wife has a better capacity
for remembering these things. But she would regale us with
a new word of the day every day. And the
words were so obscure and difficult in some cases to pronounce,
(43:25):
oftentimes with more letters than it seems necessary, with really
wild definitions, and that was just so apropos that now
just naturally would also be engaging in that kind of
activity that was so similar to her character. It was
really fun. And I have since forgotten every single one
(43:48):
of those words.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
That was going to be my next question so what
was the most interesting word you learned? So I won't
go there.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
Oh, look, I've definitely forgotten.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Them all here you were a child actor. Is it
a different life on set now for kids compared to
when you started out. I don't know.
Speaker 4 (44:07):
It doesn't seem like it is. I mean, it's always
contextual because every job is different, right, The environment is
going to be different because it's the nature of the
job that it's in a new city with a new crew,
a new set of people. For the circumstances are often
not replicatable, Like it's a different atmosphere every time. So
(44:30):
I don't know if it feels different for kids now
in general, and it kind of like in a way
that feels that it can be sort of trapped throughout
the industry. Not really, I don't know. The sort of
the labor is the same. This on school, the onset schooling,
(44:54):
Like now had school that she had to do every day,
like that was very familiar. The hours are also shorter
for kids, so it's actually really interesting being on the
other side of it now as an adult to work
with with a minor, because I'm like, all right, they
can only work eight hours. There's time that has to
(45:15):
be taken up for school, and there are all these
sort of other considerations. But you know, as a kid,
you're not thinking about those things. You're just sort of
on set for the time that you are and you
go home when you're done. But in terms of the
actual environment, like I said, I think it's it's unique
to it's unique to the individuals, it's unique to the parents.
The parents set the tone largely for the children, but
(45:39):
also so does the environment of the set and the
filmmaker and the cast. You know, it becomes this sort
of family, and that's very much what we had on
this and Nell's parents. Her dad was present for a bit,
but she she had a guardian on set who is lovely,
who also helped with her key reaccents and was with
(46:03):
her at all times and was super rabs, so I
know she had a wonderful time. It's a very long
answer that isn't quite meandering. I've gotten so far away
from what you have even after.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
I love the way you're just thinking it through. What
would you do if your children said, hey, Dad, I'd
like to start acting.
Speaker 4 (46:23):
I wouldn't discourage it. I think my perspective is always
to encourage the interests of my children. So whatever they
whatever impulses, they have to encourage those impulses and if
that ultimately dovetails into the film industry in some way,
(46:44):
to not stand in the way of it. You know, Look,
I had an incredible experience. I am the sum of
my experiences as an actor, right and in addition to
other life experience that I've had. So I'm so grateful
for my child as I'm so grateful for the the
(47:06):
experiences that it afforded me. So I have no kind
of negativity associated with having been a child actor or
any time will start as a child actor. So I
only have kind of positive reference points. So yeah, I don't.
I wouldn't. I wouldn't be coming at it from a
(47:26):
perspective of well don't I wouldn't want you to do that,
because it doesn't you know, they were all great experiences,
and I would trust that they would be surrounded by
certainly you know us as parents, but also you know,
an environment that would be healthy for them. But yeah,
(47:48):
I don't know. I wouldn't. I'm not. I wouldn't go
out of my way to encourage it. But that has
more to do with wanting to make sure that they
find their own voice and do whatever they feel like
they want to do in terms of expressing themselves.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
You know, in the film, your character learns a lot
about himself through the discovery this daughter and being with
her and things. Did having kids change you? What have
you learned about yourself from your kids?
Speaker 4 (48:14):
Oh? Man, I mean you're constantly growing as a parent,
as a person, you know, Yeah, I mean it it
tests you to find patience. You know. I always thought
I was a really patient person, and I think I've
I've realized, like and I and I still am a
(48:35):
patient person, but I think it has tested that and
finding calm because there's there's chaos that is out of
your control and I don't know.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
No, that all sounds very familiar.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Yeah, listen, I think it's an it's an ongoing it's
an ongoing I'm assuming you're a parent. Yeah, yeah, it's
an ongoing process. You know, you're I think it's it's
a constant evolution. And I and I like looking at
it like that because as they grow, you are growing.
You are also learning as you go. You do not
(49:13):
step into this with all of the knowledge to just
immediately slot into being a parent. It's you know, it
initially happens where you have an idea and then you're
thrust with the reality of it, and that is an
ever evolving process, and that evolution will continue and I
(49:33):
will continue to grow as a human being along with
my child, both as a parent and as a person.
And it's important for me anyway. It's really important to
look at it that way because also there's those moments
as a parent, as I'm sure you know, where you're like,
I can't imagine another night like this, or you know,
this is so hard, and then you kind of you know,
(49:56):
one of the best pieces of advice that I ever
heard about parenting is like, just know that it doesn't
it doesn't last. Like this is a phase and that
will end, and then it will be something new you'll
have to learn how to adapt to and grow with.
And so yeah, it's total ever evolution.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
You know, so true. Elijah, thank you so much for
your time and for the absolutely delightful film.
Speaker 4 (50:22):
Oh thank you. I'm so glad you enjoyed it. Thank
you for.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
The best guest from the Sunday session Great Jazz with
Francesca rudget on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks it'd be
that was.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Elijah would so lovely right. I mean, I think if
there was a theme for today's Great Chats it would
be humble Superstars. Elijah was so chatty and open both
before and after, you know the recording of that interview.
The kind of feel well them off like an old
mate that I expect to catch up was soon. I
don't know the guy, I've never met the guy. Anyway,
(50:54):
I loved hearing him talk about how being a child
star with such a positive experience for him, because there
are so many cautionary tales out there right and you know,
if you have the right people around you and keep
your feet on the ground growing up and show business
doesn't need to ruin you. Hey, thanks for joining me
on this News Talks He'd Be podcast. Please feel free
to share these chats, and if you liked this podcast,
(51:15):
make sure you follow us on iHeartRadio wherever you get
your podcasts, and I'll catch you next time on Great Chats.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks It'd Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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