September 24, 2024 • 55 mins
*TW* This content discusses topics such as suicide, sexual assault and mental distress.
Welcome back to Hope Is Real with Jazz Thornton. In this episode Jazz sits down with her friend and co-founder Genevieve Mora and opens up about her own mental health struggles over the last 2 years. She shares how even if you know the tools, sometimes it's still hard to put them into place, but the most important thing is to reach out for help.
Hope Is Real is a Podcast to help you feel a little less alone, a bit more inspired, and a lot more hopeful. Join Jazz Thornton every week as she speaks to empowering and inspiring people from around the world and shares their stories to normalise the way we talk about mental health in society.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The ZM podcast network.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And so I did something that I wish I never did,
and that was just blocked it.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
If you don't deal, it's gonna break you. It's gonna
happen eventually.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And it would have been better for me to have
done it when it happened rather than let it build.
No matter what people say or the situation that you
were in, that it's not your fault. Hi, guys, welcome
to Hope It's Real Season three. I cannot believe I'm
even saying that. It's so crazy that I was able
to do one season, let alone all three. It has
(00:32):
been a wild adventure and I am so insanely excited
for the season. We are sitting down with some phenomenal
people from all around the world. We've got everyone from Bobrooks,
from the Janoskians.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
If you're a millennial then you know that name.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
To just some phenomenal people that have lived through some
crazy stories and come through the other side. And there's
always this This podcast is designed to help you feel
a little less alone, a bit more inspired, and as
always a lot more hopeful. And I really think that
season three is going to be a really big anchor
for that and so I'm really looking forward to it,
(01:09):
and for this very first episode, it's a bit of
a special one and it's something that I've been wanting
to do for a long time but needed to find.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
The right time and the right space to do.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So this episode is going to be a little bit different.
I am going to basically be flipping the script and
I have brought in someone that a lot of you
will know. If you follow me on social media, i'll
follow my story, you'll know Genevieve Moore. She's the co
founder of Voices of Hope, one of my very good friends.
And this episode, we're going to be talking about things
(01:41):
that has happened for me over the last few years
that I have not yet talked about. And there's a
lot of reasons that I didn't talk about it publicly
when it happened. But it feels like the right time
now to be able to do that, and to do
so from the position that I'm in, from the perspective
that I have. But it's not something that I wanted
to do, just kind of talking at you all. And
(02:03):
so Jen was kind of there through all of this
and she saw it all firsthand. So I thought that
it'd be a good idea to bring her into this
episode and have her basically, like I said, flip the
script and she's going to be interviewing me. We're going
to be more so just having a conversation. But I
think it's just going to enable me to be able
to talk about this rather than just talking straight to
(02:24):
a mic into a camera. But talking to someone makes
it a little bit easier. I will give a trigger
warning here that this episode will talk about sexual assault
and it will talk about suicidality, and so if that's
something that you feel like you can't deal with at
the moment, or that might really trigger you, please it's
okay to pause this episode now, take care of yourself.
You can come back to it later, not at all,
(02:45):
It's fully up to you. I'm going to welcome Genevieve
more welcome to Hope.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
It's a real the podcast.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Thank you so much for having me, And honestly, I
know we've been friends for a long time, and I
feel really to be trusted in a safe place to
hold this conversation because I know it's not an easy
conversation for you to have, but I think it's so
incredibly important and I know for a fact that unfortunately
a lot of your listeners are going to be able
to relate to something that you're about to talk about.
So thank you, first of all for being brave. How
(03:17):
are you feeling.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I feel going to throw up.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I feel so nervous, I think because I just I
haven't spoken about this publicly, but I just think so
much of everything I've shared in my life has always
been from the point of being so far out of
it that I can I feel like I can talk
about it almost attached, whereas this has been a lot
(03:41):
more recent.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
But I feel like it's so important.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So I feel ready and I feel honored to have
a platform that I can have this conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
But I am very.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Nervous, understandably, and I think, like you said, you know
you haven't rushed into this.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
It's been something you've been thinking about for a while.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
And I just know that people are going to be
really grateful for the opportunity to listen to such a
big part of your life. And I think you know,
people will not be surprised to hear that over the
last few years there's been some things going on behind
the scenes, because I think in many ways you've alluded
to some challenges that you've faced, and so to have
the opportunity to dig deeper into it is something I'm
(04:17):
again really grateful to be part of.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So let's take it back to the beginning.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Tell me from the get go, you had an experience,
for lack of better word, while you were overseas that
started a really really slippery slope for you.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah. So it was.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
It was a few years ago, and I was in
a different country and I ended up in a situation
where I don't drink a lot, like giver at all.
I could literally count on one hand the amount of
times I've ever been drunk. It's just not something that
I do. I don't like that feeling of losing control
(04:58):
or anything. And there was one night that I was
having like a couple of drinks with some people that
I didn't know, and I remember I was being so
careful about the amount that I was drinking because I'm
(05:20):
such a lightweight because I don't drink, and I started
to someone else started pouring my drinks, and I remember
starting to feel really woozy and.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Kind of I didn't really know what was going on, And.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
The night kind of went on and as the night continued,
I just became more and more out of it, and
that night I ended up being sexually assaulted again.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
And I think, I think that the gain.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Part is what's really hard, because it's it was. There
was so much of like how did I end up
back in this situation?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
And I remember.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
My brain was like I could I knew what was happening,
but my body couldn't move and couldn't respond, and I
didn't know if I'd been roofeed or if something.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I didn't know what was going on, but I couldn't
move and it was so traumatizing as that is, but
at this point.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
I was also so in the public eye, and yeah,
I didn't know how to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I remember.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Like later that night, after I was by myself, I
was in the bathroom just on the floor, like losing it.
And at that time, like I wasn't on birth control
or anything, and I remember having I was like crap,
like I I don't know what to do, and so
(07:11):
I ended up the next morning I messaged my doctor,
who I do have a good relationship with that now
not not doctor Stiff, it's it's the doctor that I
now see, and almost like point blank just being like,
this is what happened. I need to like, I don't
know what to do, and she was like, we're going
to get you the emergency peil. I was flying home
(07:33):
that day, but I wasn't going to land in time
to go to the pharmacy, so I had to get
someone to go pick up the pill for me.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
But yeah, that's that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
And there's obviously a lot more to the story and
kind of the aftermath that we'll get into. But I
had alluded a while ago that there was like a
traumatic event that I went through, and I just remember
the comments of people being so like, well, why would
you say that and not like not tell us what
(08:05):
it is and stuff, And it's because it was so
hard for me to.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Say I didn't at that time. I really hadn't processed it.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
So yeah, yeah, it's absolutely awful, and I think, like
you said, almost retraumatizing. I think, you know, a lot
of people, especially people who listen to this podcast, will
have a really good understanding of your story and your
experience and things that happened to you when you were younger.
So I can't begin to imagine how traumatic that was
to re experience things that had happened in the past,
(08:37):
and in terms of you know, you talked about afterwards feeling,
you know, shame, blame.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
You taught me through some of those sort of feelings
and thoughts. I remember.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
There was a couple of people who were very close
to me that I ended up telling that this is
what had happened.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
And I remember sitting there and just I was a mess.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I was crying and I said kind of similar to
what I just said, of like I can't believe this
happened again. And one of the people were like, what
do you mean again, And I was like, I was
sexually assaulted again. And this person just said, I don't
know if you can call it that because you chose
to drink no, and that as someone who like this
(09:27):
person was so close to me, And I was like,
I never wanted that to happen, and I know that,
and the place of advocacy that I'm in, like, I
know that that's not true, but hearing that from someone
that I respected and that I loved broke me. And
I remember I was on the phone to my theory Piston,
just like losing it and then realizing I can't I
(09:51):
can't deal with this because so many people are watching me.
This is going to break me. And so I did
something that I wish I never did, and that was
just blocked it. I went on with my life pretended
it never happened. And in my mind, if I did that,
then it would mean that I wouldn't have to feel
(10:12):
everything attached to it or experience it. And so I
just pretended that everything was fine and that it never happened.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Yeah, and we know that that's not a problem solving namism.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
No, And I know that now, like I think you
knew that then. I knew that then, and.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I still I still did it because I just I
don't I can't even explain it, just that I didn't
see any like I Actually I was talking to my
therapist not too long ago, and we were doing MA therapy,
which has been life changing and it's so wild how
(10:49):
it even works. I can't even comprehend it. But she
was saying that she realized that I have this massive
tendency to block sadness as an emotion, and that if
I get remoly feeling sad about something in my own life,
I will block it because previously those emotions have led
to me not wanting to be here. And so I
(11:10):
think when this was happening and there was still so
many eyes on me and I was still having to
do so much work and all this kind.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Of stuff, that I just I didn't want to feel
these emotions.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I was so scared of what it was going to do,
where it was going to lead, that I was like,
I just have to block it. I can't let it in, know,
But obviously it didn't didn't work.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
No, absolutely not, And like you said, you know, you
know that now and you know that then, But it
almost just shows how deep the trauma was. And I think,
you know, we tell people all the time through our
work the importance of speaking up and sharing what's going on.
So I can't begin to imagine how invalidating it was
to share something that you felt so shameful of which
you shouldn't because it wasn't your fault.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
To then be.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Told that it was your fault for the lack of
better words, you know, and it most definitely wasn't, but
that just adds that shame burden, and I imagine made
sharing that with anyone else perhaps more difficult.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I don't think I did.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I can't actually remember when I told you it was
a while after, yeah, because I was just so like
I was just like, well, that's what everyone's going to think.
And I think that's also what silenced me, was that
I was like, everyone's going to think that, and it's
so it's so wild because I like, I think I
was drinking gin and I had three with the tiniest
(12:33):
like I don't.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Even like the taste of alcohol.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Like that's why I was like, I'm so sure that
I was like something went in my drink or where
someone was poor, but I it was not a feeling that.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I had felt before.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
But I still because someone said that that shame and
like that I did something wrong here, which I think
is really important for me to admit that that's how
I was feeling because becaus me as an advocate who
shares these stories, a lot of people just think, you know,
(13:08):
have it all together, or like you go through something
like that and then you just immediately like I didn't
know how to come back from that, and so bearing
it seemed like the best option because if everyone else
thinks the same thing of me, like, then it's just
gonna solidify these beliefs that I now have that it
was my fault and that there was something wrong with
(13:30):
me and that I let that happen.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
And yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
There's also that added like complexity for you, like you said,
having such a presence on social media and being an
advocate for mental health that, like you said, everything has
to be perfect. And so when you started alluding to
the fact that something had happened but not giving detail
because you weren't ready, which is absolutely understandable and fine,
the backlash or the feedback from people would only have
added to that pain that you were feeling.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, and I think I was really struggling with it
because the reason that I even chose to allude to it,
which people will be like, well, why would you say
it if you weren't ready to.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Talk about it.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
But at that time, it was post Trees Riilan, which
we're going to talk about soon anyway. But it was
my way of trying to tell people, You've got no
idea what's going behind on going on behind the scenes
when you're saying these horrific things to people on social media.
And I was getting crazy messages like you don't know,
you think you know what you see on a screen,
(14:25):
You've got no idea. So That's what I was trying
to allude to and kind of show people without telling
everyone what it was.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
But then people win at me for that as well.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
But you also can't win because if you had switched
off from social media, We've seen it time and time again.
You know, when you were on CCI and weren't able
to be on your phone, people start thinking the worst
and wonder where the heck you are. So you in
some ways had to give somewhat of an explanation. And
it's entirely in your right to share what you want
to share on your social platforms. Yeah, why now, why
have you decided to talk about this now?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I've been doing a lot of therapy and I think
that I feel I'm in a much better place now,
and I feel like there's just so much things that
I learned from it that I think it's really important
for people to.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Know that they're not alone in it, and that.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Going through something like that and not responding the way
that you think you should is normal, and also to
say that blocking it out doesn't work. Like everything that
I learned in that process, and the reason I want
to talk about it is so that people might be
able to learn that faster than I did, because it
(15:37):
just doesn't like it gets to a point where it
eventually comes up and it explodes, and that's what happened
with me. And I think that for people to understand
that they're not alone in that, but also to know
talking about it is the best thing. That it's not
your fault, That no matter what people say or the
situation that you were.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
In, that it's not your fault. And that I think
that whole.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Kind of idea and perception of when you go through
something like that, that you feel like you did something
wrong or that this is something that only happens to
me to understand like I'm literally an advocate, like this is
what I'm known for and it happened to me.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Again, that it can happen to anyway and it should never.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It should never, but that it's yeah, like like you've
just said, and like I know to my core now
that it wasn't my fault and it's not the people
that have gone through this.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
It's not your fault.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
No, But I think what comes with that is a
lot of stigma and lack of understanding, which again is
so good that you're sharing this now that you feel
ready to you know, obviously that was an incredibly traumatic incident,
and I imagine something you continue to work through in
many ways, because, like I mentioned, and you've said, I
imagine it retriggered some things from your past. What would
(16:53):
you say to that version of jazz, you know, if
you go back to that I don't know that next morning,
when it was all very freeh.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Wsh, I would say, talk to someone now, don't wait
and everything that we've just been saying, that this isn't
your fault. And I think, with the foresight that I
(17:23):
now have of everything that happened and unraveled, like the
thing I felt I needed to do to survive at
that time was to block it out. But it didn't
do what I was hoping it would do. That find
the right people to talk to. But yeah, Like I'm
(17:43):
such a visual person and I often struggle with that
in therapy that if I have a flashbout, like a
memory of something, I see it really vividly, And I
still can see myself on that bathroom floor just losing it,
Like it's so vivid and all of the emotions and
everything that came with it. But shat that girl on
(18:04):
the floor, she survived it. She survived the aftermath and
it's going to be so hard. But also it's another thing,
I guess to help people feel this alone.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, I mean, you shouldn't have to go through something
like that to be able to help people. No, the
fact that chosen to she's a lot about you and
you're incredibly resilient. So you know, like we said, this
was a little while ago now, but it's still fresh
and you're still navigating things. I think there were a
few other things, you know, throughout the time, in the
(18:40):
years gone that have made things, you know, tricky in
different ways, and I really want to talk about some
of those moments too, more specifically your time on CTI
and how that impacted your mental health because Jazz, it
was the first time in a long time that I
was incredibly worried about your safety. And I know there
(19:01):
were a lot of other people out there because doctor
Steph and I were in text comms and all someone
had been checking in on you. You know it. It
was a terrifying thing to see as a friend and
as someone that loves you.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Can we talk about that.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, I think there's two pieces too that there's what
happened when I was filming the show and then the
aftermath of it, and what you're referring to is the
aftermath and the what I what I will say is
that during the filming was the very first time that
(19:33):
I didn't have the distractions that I had had outside
of the island with my phone and kind of everything else,
like the business, and it was the first time that
I was forced to face what had happened to me,
and so in and of itself, that experience was so
kind of tied to that where I couldn't really escape it.
And at night that's what I was kind of getting
splashbacks and it kind of all it all came crashing
(19:55):
on me. So that was really difficult. But then as
the show was airing, there was a kind of storyline
that was put out that did not happen, that said
that I was threatening people with a social with my
social media people, which which is actually so stupid when
(20:15):
you think about it, like it's just.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Not like one hundred.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
There was a conversation of like, if anything happens, let
me know, like this is you know, people on social media.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
It's a different ballgame, like it's wild.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
But I mean, because there had been all of the
stuff going on behind the scenes where I was forced
to face what had happened. I had just gone through
a breakup, which was also tied to like there was
so much stuff that I already felt so much self hatred,
(20:46):
to be honest, and then you see, like.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
I remember the day.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
That the episode aired, I was sitting at my friend
Jane's house and she basically had to take my phone
off me because I turned it and I just started
to see these comments and these messages just coming through
of horrific, Like it was so it was so horrific.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
You were terrified. I remember that. I mean, it's nerve wracking.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I imagine seeing yourself on TV, let alone seeing yourself
on TV and then seeing the public responding in a
way that's really unkind yep.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
And I remember my therapist saying that in that time,
like because I already was so significantly struggling, which no
one knew, no one knew, no, no one knew at all,
and she was like, oh, you were, like, what has
happened is all of these people that are saying these
things to you, it is solidifying and confirming these beliefs
that you already have. So you've been looking for evidence
(21:46):
of it, and now suddenly it felt like the whole
world just tend to turned against me. And I remember
having to get on a plane the next morning and
fly straight to Sydney.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I mean, I was at the airport. Someone came up
to me and.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Was like, you effing bitch to my face, and I
was like, so I taken off guard and was like,
what is going on? And then being away from everyone
as well, and having to get up and speak.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
It was so hard.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
But it was the first time in years that I
did not want to be here anymore. And I remember
getting to the point, which is so so hard to admit,
(22:31):
especially now knowing the life that I do have and
the people that are so phenomenal in our community, but
getting to the point that I rewrote my will and
I wrote out letters for the first time in years,
and like, just doing that was so I just remember
being like, how did I end up here again? And
(22:55):
everything I was seeing was just how much everyone hated me,
and I hated myself, like it was horrible.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
But I remember sitting in my therapist's office.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
And this was the day after I had rewrote my
well and done all these things, and I remember you
had sent a message that came through in the middle
of therapy, and it was another advocate in the space
who had taken their own life. And I literally just
remember your words. You were like, this is so insanely sad.
(23:32):
I can't imagine everyone that found hope in his story
how they massed feel And I just read that and
immediately snapped back and was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
My god, like I could. I think I was really.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Hard to see the hundreds of thousands, the millions people
that support and are so there when all you're seeing
is this horrible star. And I was like, well, ever,
like it's a perfect time to go, right. I feel
like I'm canceled anyway. And people have to understand that
was a result of so many things, including this assault
(24:11):
that it happened.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
There was just so much stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
But then I was just had this turning moment, and
I remember sitting there with my therapist and being like,
look at this thing. Jen just messaged me and she
just looked at me and was like, and that's so crazy,
because like I haven't heard that. And I also I
had no idea where you were sitting in that moment
and where you were at with your mental health. Well Yeah,
(24:36):
you didn't know what was going on at that To
that extent, I knew things weren't good because the way
you'd been communicating or lack of communication, had been very
very clear, and obviously there was people in your life
that were checking in, and you know, I was hearing
things from other people, but.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
I didn't know in that moment how dire things were.
And I hope in any way that didn't provide any
sort of what's the word the way I worded things.
You don't want to feel like it's all your responsibility,
But I think you know what I was trying to
say in that moment, without realizing where you were in
your own journey, is that you know so many people
(25:10):
are inspired by you and look up to you and
love you all parts of you, not just the healthy,
thriving jazz, but the jazz that struggling and need some support.
And I just want to come back to those messages quickly,
because I've seen some of them.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I can think of one email in.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Particular, think of the worst thing you could say to
a human being, and times that by ten it was
the most vile, disgusting, horrific, should be illegal, probably is illegal.
Piece of writing I've ever seen in my life, and
so I can't begin to imagine the effect that had
on you. And I think what we were really trying
to do those in your support network. We're sharing messages
(25:47):
that had been really positive. But I can understand that
when you're getting you know, lots of positive messages, but
also many as awful as this, but that's all you
focus on.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I think I really just felt like I had let people.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Down, and that I had let all those people that
do support us down. And I think, I mean, I
think I've struggled for so long anyway too, like the
guilt of the fact that I am still here and
so many people aren't and who said I could do
this and be this for like why why me?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Like why? And I struggle with that for so long.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
And I think that it's so normal for humans to
focus on those negative things, Like you can see a
hundred good comments and you'll focus on that one bad thing,
or like interactions with people and people are saying, you know,
you notice on that one thing that you said wrong,
and you're like just marinate on that for so long.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
It's marinate, that's probably and that you're just like you'll
think about it and you will like. And so I
think that's what was happening, was that.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I had all these beliefs and these things that had
built up, and then no one that was sending me
these messages or these comment It's new the battle that
I was facing. And I think that is another reason
why I wanted to share the story now, is that
social media and bullying is such a huge thing, Oh
(27:14):
my goodness, and I mean there are websites dedicated to
bullying people on social media and it's disgusting. And I
think that people just need to be so freaking aware
that you have no idea.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
As much as you think that you know, you've got.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
No idea what's going on behind the scenes, but even
with your friends and like the people in your life,
you've got no idea what people are facing. And kindness
will always overall that, but you've also got no idea
when the thing you say is going to be the
tipping point, which you know, some of those comments and
messages that I got were a huge part of that,
(27:52):
and I felt that the gravity of that situation. But
I do remember, and I feel like I'm just quoting
my therapist, right and Cinder here she's great, she's great,
Chatasha her recently, but she was saying because I was
expressing that, I was like, I can't believe I've ended
up here again, like this is this is so scary,
and she was very scared for me as well, but
(28:15):
was just so phenomenal and was like, you, you need
to understand that these feelings are the same, but your
response is different. Huge like it feels and it didn't
feel different because I was writing the leaders and I
was doing the things, but this time I was still
asking like I was speaking up earlier. And there were
times I didn't want to go to her office and
she would have to drag my ass there because I
would be like, no, not today, but every single time
(28:38):
I went, and that was also an active choice that
I had to make, where she could drag me as
much as she wanted to. But at the end of
the day, like I had to remember who and what
I was fighting for, the same things I did so
many years ago were tools that I had that I
had to kick back in and I wasn't in the
same position.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
It was different, but also it made sense, and I think.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's what really helped was understanding that my response and
my behavior, it made sense, like considering everything that I happened,
and that had been my default for so long. I
didn't know how to feel these emotions and experience them
without not wanting to be here. And we had a
few like quite big breakthrough moments where I was just
sitting in her office.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
And lot absolutely lost it. And then after.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Twenty minutes I was like like.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Oh my, and I was just like whoa, what happens?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
And she was like, you can feel these things and
it doesn't have to push you over the edge, like
it's okay, and I was like whoom like and obviously
that's like guys every time, but realizing that it ebbs
and flows, and just because I feel it doesn't mean
I'm gonna be stuck in it forever, which is what
I'd always been so afraid of, not even.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Realizing that's what I was so afraid of.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
It's almost about learning to sit in that really uncomfortable
obviously with that support around it.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
But you speak about all the time all the time,
but it's hard, and like you said, if you're if
your history is shown that you know you struggle to
do that, of course that's going to be the way
things go.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
But I think you know what you've also realized through
this process, which is something I also say all the time,
is people can only help you with the information you
give them. So you choosing to bottle up and be
quiet and not share, which yes, might have been something
many people would do for one reason or another, ultimately
didn't help you.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
In the end.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
It was when you opened up and you said I
need help, I'm not okay. That's when the change started
to happen.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, And I think it's so important for people to
understand that on so many levels. But I think the
reason even for me coming forward for it now is
that I think that's what a lot of people who
might be in high impact jobs or like parents, or
are living these busy lifestyles where you.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Just think, I don't have time.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
And that's kind of how I felt as well, was like,
I literally I don't have time to break.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
But unfortunately that's gone. If you don't deal, it's gonna
break you.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
It's gonna happen eventually, And it would have been better
for me to have done it when it happened, rather
than let it build and build and build and build.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
And then get to the point where I'm writing a
will again.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
That should have never happened, but it did, and I think,
you know, giving myself that.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I handled it.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
What I thought was the thing that was going to
keep me here, but obviously my way of handling it
was also the thing that nearly took me out right.
And so yeah, learning that whole thing if people can
only help you with the information you give them, and
having those conversations, and I was able to one of
the most incredible people through this was someone who I
(31:34):
won't name her on this because she'll be she hates
any sort of recognition for anything. But my old supervisor, yes,
who just phenomenal and was really good at kind of
combating the comments that were said. But that only happened
when I shit them shared it. Otherwise it was just
this one sided perspective that I had of like, this
(31:55):
is your fault. But when I was able to talk
to someone else and explain it and they were able
to be like no, I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
It was one heck of a journey being I guess
a support person in your life and a friend. And
I'm so glad that you've the garden or you're deep
in that healing process. But where are you now? How
have you got from there?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
The therapy has been a big thing, but I think
really just going back to my why and my purpose,
which I've always been so strong on anyway, as to
why we do this and the people that we get
to impact. And I think what was so hard in
that time was that until I made my statement, all
I saw was the negative stuff. And so I think
(32:41):
what can often happen in a country like this that's
so tiny is that you then feel like the entire
world hates you. And I think it didn't help going
to the airport and having that person come up to
my face and say that, because then you do feel
like physically everyone is against you, but that's just not
the case.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
And I think being able to.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Go through the process of feeling the emotions and riding
it out as hot freaking was and then realizing like
I'm okay and going back. I had to do so
many speaking events in the middle of this, and it
was so freaking hard, and I remember having to do
a schools tour. We were at a school and it
(33:20):
was so hard. But then I was like, I gave
you an hour. I was like, we can cancel it,
and then seeing all of these kids and being like
that's why, like this is why, and this is so
much bigger than me. But in order to do this,
I have to put myself first and I have to
do the hard yards. And I don't think I did
like work like properly for months, which I will say
(33:42):
as a privilege to be in a position to be
able to do that.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
And to be able to just like, but you didn't
have capacity.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I had zero capacity to do anything other than no,
I couldn't get out of a beard half of the time,
Like I was literally like I like, I don't know
how to function. And but and that's when I got
put being on anti depressants from this as well, which
was also a huge thing because then I was like,
oh my gosh, I'm going back and mailed everyone. Yeah,
and then my friend Jane was like, girl, like, it's
(34:12):
literally the same as you needing to get like midsphere
physical health, like you're fine, and I was like, yeah,
I know, and I know this, like I literally preach this,
and I think that's been That's also why I wanted
to share the story and be like I still like
people often will put us on this pedastool of like,
and we've often been like, oh my gosh, like if
we've had to get to the back to the point
(34:34):
of being put in a psych wood, which by like
I was.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Like, oh no, no, like, don't put me back there,
don't do it.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
But I was probably quite close, and there's.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Nothing wrong with needing that help.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
But I think having the ability to go in and
just be open and honest and having a therapist who
I trust with my life, which has been huge because
I've never had that before. I've never had someone that
I've clicked with like, and that has just been like
I've felt safe enough to kind of just be like,
this is all of me, here's everything, and it's.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Been really it was really really helpful. And also I
mean my dog.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Was a big distraction, lived belly who was crapping everywhere
and I having to clean up at two am. But
I think going back to those basics and not being
afraid to go back to them and being like, Okay,
this is right now, this is about keeping me here.
And then after that it was like, Okay, now it's
about fighting to get out of this mindset, and it's
about rerealizing the mission the purpose, and also that I
(35:37):
would still I think what's been a really big thing
and a really hard thing is that for me, and
I think for both of us. But I know for me,
this blew up so fast, and I felt like ever
since I when I went to film school, I've been
on this trajectory that just never so it just kept going.
And I think it's really easy to not to not
that I lost myself, but I think that you begin
(35:58):
to not know who you are without all of this,
all the stuff that's going on and the crazy busy work,
and I think people often find that even in the
normal jobs, like but also not being given the space
to process confront things.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
What also happened to.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Just be And so I think being able to step
back and be like, I'm like, I'm loved without this
and that's really it's a really like it could be
confusing people to hear, but I think I understand now
and I'm nowhere on the scale of these people, but
I understand how actuabal celebrities can get to the point
(36:31):
when you have thousands of people every day telling you
how much they love you, but they don't know you,
and then you know, it's so hard to be like,
but you don't, you don't know me, and then you
think that maybe people only love you for the things
that you do, but not who you are. And so
I think having your identity being wrapped up, and so
I think you're having that space to just know who
(36:54):
I am and know that I could be okay with
all without doing the stuff, and I could step away.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I won't because I love it so much.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
And every single person that we get to meet, which
is we get so many, so many people, and I
think on our last tour, I probably hugged like a
thousand of you, Like there is sootal evidence, so many
out but every time, like I'm such a hugger and
just being able to do that, I'm like, this is
this is the why and so and I've always been
so big one, like it's really hard to fight if we.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Don't know what you're fighting for.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And I was so lucky that I've had the perspective
of knowing what it was to be healed and that
unfortunately I just had to do the process again and
I probably will have to do the process again. But
we've always been so aware of this being a potential right.
We've had these discussions of like, it's the same, not
I want to compare it, but like, for example, someone
(37:49):
with cancer, they go into remission and even if they
get fully clear, there's still a chance that that will
come back.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
You've disposed to it, if that's something right world.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
And it's the same thing this where I'm like, I've
been aware that this could be something that could come
up again, but it's about being pre armed with that,
and I think I just wasn't at the time, and
everything kind of took me off guard, and I just
let it derail me.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
You needed to read your own book. I did. I
probably should have. I really should have literally have a
tool book. I know I haven't.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
I literally even read that sin side of the audiobook
Slip Sick Brain Struggles.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
But it's such a valid point. You know, We've had
multiple conversations. I can remember one in particular. I think
I was on the phone to you and I was
at my parents' house and we were talking what was
in person, but about the fact that there's almost this pressure,
like you've said multiple times, to be perfect for lack
of a better word, as mental health advocates who talk
about hope and talk about freedom and how you know,
(38:47):
great life is that we can't have moments of pain
and struggle. But actually that's not realistic. No, we're still
human beings. And I think that's another reason why it's
so important that you've shared this part of yourself, because
it humanizes you. It actually makes the realities of facing
into health challenges more normal.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, I think I've really noticed that, probably honestly, over
the last couple of years of I always was trying
so hard to make sure I was always speaking from
the point of hope. And I think that's just because
it's what I was always missing in my life for
all of my struggles, that I wanted to make sure
that that was something that I did. And I think
(39:26):
that at times that came across as this perfect life,
which is just never been the reality. And there's always
so much going on behind the scenes that people don't see.
And I think being able to have these conversations and
I think I called you wanting to do this like
six months ago, yeah, but being unsure as to how
(39:47):
and when and how do I do this conversation, but
knowing that the people that are in our community or
people that are listening to this, or people that follow
us online who maybe were doing really well and then
dipped again to be like that it happens, Okay, it happens.
It's okay, We're all in this together. And there were
(40:09):
times in that moment, in that kind of period for me,
where I could not see my way out. And I
think that's where I was so strongly reminded of the
need for community and communication and TI who we go
on tour with whoft and say like communication is one
of the most important things in life, Like if you
don't know how to communicate, no one knows what's going on.
(40:29):
And I almost lost all communications schools. I literally stopped.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Replying to people, But how would people know what was
going on then? And been able to let people in?
Speaker 2 (40:38):
And I think I was just afraid of people seeing
my mess and seeing me like that, because, like I said,
I felt like I had failed and that I had
failed the people that had trusted us, and I had
failed the people that followed us, and I had failed
the people that were closest to me. And so my
way to deal with that was to just block everyone out.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
And do you know what you've probably done.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
You've probably actually validated a lot of people's experiences through
sharing this and made them feel of it heck of
a lot less alone, but also given them hope that,
you know, one of the common things will here is
this narrative around I've had a relapse or a blip
in the road, or I've you know, gone through something
you know again and now I've failed, I'm back to
square one. But reality is, like you've said, you know,
(41:23):
you went through something again that you never should have,
but this time you had more tools and skills and
probably resilience to overcome that, even in the moments it
didn't feel like it.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, And it's the whole thing of not realizing your
own strength. And I think that a big thing that
I have always tried to focus on, especially with the
amount of people that will come up to us and
be like you saved my life, as putting that power
back in their hands and going all we did was
say hey, there's another option, like you were the one
that's did all the hard work to stay. And I
(41:54):
think for myself and all of those moments having to
go back and be like Jazz like that when that
you've been through this last time, it wasn't all because
my relationships have changed and people around me have changed,
like so much has changed, but the one thing that
hasn't changed is me. And I thought it last time
and it wasn't anyone else that got me through it
(42:14):
at the end of the day. Other things helped one
hundred percent, but I had to do it. And I
think that that related so much to this time. Where
as much as it felt so similar, I didn't act
like I obviously started to do the process of it,
but I think I did the process knowing I wouldn't
(42:34):
actually do it.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
I don't think at any point in time. I mean,
I don't know. I don't think I could say for sure.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
And I think you know, because of my ADHD and
the impulsivity as well, like there was definitely a chance.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
But you were able to intervene. Yeah, I think that
before it.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, something more Yeah, and been able to then identify
it and look at in the face, whereas twelve year
old Jazz absolutely didn't have no she would have run already.
And I think after you sent me that message and
I was in therapy, I made a commitment that I
was like, there's no way, like I will not as
much as I want to, it's not happening. I'm not
gonna I refuse, and it was such a game changer,
(43:13):
and it's like, I feel so horrif it to even
talk about it like that, because that was such a
horrific situation that happened and the loss of this beautiful
life which should have never happened. And I think I
could have had the same realization without that. I think
it was just the message of in the time, how
many the timing and the message of how many people
(43:35):
that have found hope.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
And it wasn't it wasn't a guilt.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Thing, but it was a realization of like the impact
that I've been able to have and the privilege that
I've had in the platform that people have given me,
and the trust, yeah, the trust and to the inn
And I think it's important like that everything I was
feeling at that time was justified and it was so
and it was so hard, but I had a responsibility
(43:58):
to to fight through it that I could have this
conversation so that I could say, like it's possible to
do it all over again, and it's so hard and
it's so draining when you're like I'm back here again,
Like hard did I hand up here again? But it
is like what you said, giving that grace to yourself
and going like jazz like this was horrific, And there
(44:20):
were so many other things in my life that had
fallen apart at the time, and obviously I went through
a very public breakup, which was kind of and to
weave with what had happened overseas as well. When I
began to realize like I was really struggling with physically anyway.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I had a smilar thing.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Even when I was on Dancing with the Stars, I
kind of realized that like when my partner Brad, who
was so he were so great with me and would
have to like be super close to me and I
would freak out.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
I just thought it.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
I was like, uh, like there's a video of I
had to put my hand on his chest for something,
and literally it was supposed to be like that, and
I just had like claws out, like I don't want
to touch you. And so even that kind of carried through.
And I don't know what people know this, but that
was my second relationship. My first one was actually also
when I was in the public eye, but I'd never
posted about it, so no one even knew about it.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
And that didn't last very long.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
And then yeah, I have my my ex was my
secondary relationship, and having that public and then having the breakup,
which also then had to be public because people were
coming up to me on the street and being and
this was all like around idtrs. You were getting messages
like there was just so much happening that people didn't know.
And I could have been honest about it when it
was happening one hundred percent, But I also I was
(45:29):
aware of the position that I have and the responsibility
that I have that I didn't want to free people
out in the fact that people would freak out if
I'm off social media for like three days and they
think that I've you know, done something or something's happened
where it's like okay, it's like yeah, I don't even.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Well, no, if you shared at that time where you'd
be going against everything. We sort of talk about the
importance of going through you know, that healing before because
you can't rush that process. That's not to say, ef
yone's going to go and share this story publicly after
they go through something traumatic or challenging, but you know,
you had to give yourself that time.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Yeah, And I think it's also important to acknowledge, like
it's a never ending journey I think in regards to
like learning and seeing beliefs that come up, and even
like recently with this crazy stalker situation that had burned,
which was absolutely bonkers.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
It's been a big episode. I know, this is so much.
I mean, this is so much. Update you a lot.
It's just so crazy.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
But the reason I wanted to bring this up was that, obviously,
for those of you who haven't seen it, basically man
fluid from the Netherlands, man sending scary messages, man found
my house. I had the criminal forensic behavior specialists from
the police contact me and be like, here's what to do,
worst case scenario. But what I recally know, I don't
even know if I've talked about talk to you about this,
(46:47):
But it was another thing that kind of came up
that made me go, man, this is a forever kind
of going journey where obviously I was terrified for my
life in that time, but what was more scary for
me was me going, oh my gosh, I've put everyone
else that are closest to me in this position where
everyone is at.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Risk of being hurt, and that was so hard to acknowledge.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
By what was so I think has been so how
do I don't even know how to word this, But
because of what I went through with the assault, the
way I dealt with it, and that I didn't talk
about it, I went got my ass straight back into
therapy as this happened, and I thought it was literally
like two days later me and my therapists were doing
emdr on the specific trigger points of that and being like,
(47:34):
oh my gosh, these are like the beliefs that I
had and grain when I was younger, of like being
a burden or making other people's lives harder that had
then come up later yourself again, Yeah, what to then
come up through Treasure Island and then having this moment
have been able to really nab that and acknowledge that
that was the thing that had happened. And it was
amazing how much faster I was able to kind of
come to terms with that belief because I chose to
(47:56):
speak about it than I did for the length of
time that I said nothing about what had happened overseas. Yeah,
And so I think, like, you know, it's a process
that you just are constantly learning and growing, and I'm
so I would never wish that experience on anyone. I
wish one hundred percent that it never happened, but I
(48:16):
learned some very important lessons. And I also think just
seeing the community and the people around me, like are
so so amazing, and I'm so thankful because I think
growing up the way that I did, you still believe
that everyone's going to leave you at some point, Like
that's just kind of is ingrained and it's really hard
(48:38):
to get rid of that. But I think it was
just so testament to like you've only known. I mean,
we've obviously had a rocky relationship podcast to say the least,
but we've stood the strength of time. Like it's been
so I actually, when I was doing the post this
morning with the photos and was thinking.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
About I was like, my godsh we got connected like
sixteen years ago. We're so we're.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
So well, yeah, it was ridiculous, but we've like really
we've come to the point now that we're such good
friends and being like, oh my gosh, this other belief
that I had isn't true. But in order for me
to see that, I had to be here. Absolutely yeah,
And I mean, I'm I'm thankful that I'm in a
position now where I feel like I can talk about
this and and.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Share it and been able to do so on my
own platform.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
I think is really helpful because it means that it's
not kind of getting clickbaited out and whatever, but being
able to kind of have the ability to do that
and have this conversation, especially to do it with someone
who saw it firsthand.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Unfortunately, you saw it all with a breakup.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
I saw it all people coming up to me when
we're at some event and the public breakup hading on public.
Yet people coming up to me asking like you really
saw it all, and yeah, now we get to sit
and chat from a place of you not freaking out.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yeah, I just want to come back to what you
were saying.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
And you know this, this belief that people are going
to leave you, and I think joke's on you because
I think you know everyone in your life's sticking around.
I think you don't give yourself enough credit for how
amazing you are and what you bring to other people's
lives by being here.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
And so I'm not I'm going to get a motion.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
I'm going to cry again, but on behalf of myself
and the voice of FOKE community and everyone that's listening
to this podcast. Thank you for creating such an incredible
platform where you inspire other people, but also taking the
courage to speak about something that has been incredibly challenging
for you to navigate. Because I think it's tenstament, testament, marinate,
whatever the word is, our testament to your strength, but
(50:37):
also your your heart and your desire and your hope
and your belief that whatever you're going through you can
get through. And so I guess I hope that anyone
that's listening to this is reminded once again that the
world is a better place with the minute, as Jazz
always said, and that you know what you're going through
right now is something you can continue to heal from
(50:57):
and it's not your fault.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
As we wrap up, just want to say to people that.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Are feeling the way that I felt, and feeling like
the world is going to be better with them in
all or that this pain's never going to.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
End, It's just it's not true.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
And as much as your situation and your mind and
everything around you might be making you feel that way,
your external reality, it's just so different to what you
internally are trying to believe. Our message that we always
say is that the world is better with you in it.
And I think that it's really hard to believe that
when you're in the middle of it. But the world
(51:41):
is so much better with you in it. And if
you can't believe that right now, someone else's world is
better because you exist. It's literally on the back of
my T shirt right now, my sweaty T shirt onto
these podcast lights. I can smell it from here, honestly,
probably can't you just smell me down the street.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
That's not something that we just say so flippantly about
the world.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
And I also, I think again the twelve billion reason
why I wanted to do this episode is for people
to understand the reason that we say that.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
It's something that we wholeheartedly believe.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
It's not just a term that we throw around or
that we're trying to use to make people feel better like.
It's the truth and every story that we get to
share through voices of hope, all the people that have
lived out their darkest moments and have seen light outside
of it in all different aspects, in all different ways
like recovery and light doesn't look like having this huge
platform or anything like remotely like that, but just waking
(52:31):
up and being excited for life again, or going out
and seeing the sunrise and being like wow, I'm so
And I had moments like that even when we were
at the Jonas Brothers and I was just sitting there
watching you live out your childhood dream and being like
I nearly missed this, like what. And I had the
same moment at the Pink concert. I was at the
Pink concert, and I think that's moment that we'll ever
(52:53):
be so ingrained in my brain. Was standing there as
Pink's just like flying around the stadium and looking up
and looking I just started crying. And I started crying
because I was like I'm here, like what.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
And I just have those moments over and over and
over again.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
And you will have those moments too, the people that
are listening to this, even if you don't feel like
it now, like you'll have a moment of like, oh
my gosh, I nearly missed this.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
We have no idea what's to come, no.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Idea at all.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
I mean, I didn't know this whole situation was about
to come.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
But then there was more hope after that, and there
was more life after that and more experiences after that.
Speaker 1 (53:30):
And the rollercoaster was wild. But I'm glad I stayed on.
I'm glad you stayed on too.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah, so thank you so much for coming on and
for having this conversation with me. I really thought long
and hard about how I wanted to have this conversation
and share about these stories, and I really couldn't think
of a better way to do it than then come
on and do this with you. You've been literally by
my side since I was the same height many years ago,
(53:58):
younger but social standing and standing on ust all at
the same time trying to get in the damn frame
with Jin. But no, I'm so thankful to be on
this journey with you, and I'm pretty sure you've been
on every season of this podcast, have honor.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
This is a very different one and will be.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
A very different episode, like I said to all of
the other episodes to come. But I do want to
say if anything in this episode has brought anything up
for you or has triggered anything for you. I know
I say this every episode every season, but it's because
it's so true that the bravest thing you can do,
as we've learned from my story today, is talk to someone, anyone.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
And if you don't know where to go to helplines.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
We've got a list of them on our website, Voices
of Hope, dot organ here, an altered or in New
Zealand ones even three seven, we've got youth Line. We've
got so many people that are available to talk to
you and been able to do that. Now is the
strongest and bravest thing that you can do, because help
unravel the things going on in your mind. And it's
such a cliche saying and problem problem shared is a
(54:58):
problem halved, But it's just as true. While that doesn't
make the problem go away, it does make you feel
less alone in it and everything that has happened that
may make you feel like a burden or that you
shouldn't be here, it's not your fault.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
There is hope and there is light at the end
of the tunnel.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Please keep going and remember that in all things, hope
is real and change is possible.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
I'll see you guys next week.
The ZM podcast network.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And so I did something that I wish I never did,
and that was just blocked it.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
If you don't deal, it's gonna break you. It's gonna
happen eventually.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And it would have been better for me to have
done it when it happened rather than let it build.
No matter what people say or the situation that you
were in, that it's not your fault. Hi, guys, welcome
to Hope It's Real Season three. I cannot believe I'm
even saying that. It's so crazy that I was able
to do one season, let alone all three. It has
(00:32):
been a wild adventure and I am so insanely excited
for the season. We are sitting down with some phenomenal
people from all around the world. We've got everyone from Bobrooks,
from the Janoskians.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
If you're a millennial then you know that name.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
To just some phenomenal people that have lived through some
crazy stories and come through the other side. And there's
always this This podcast is designed to help you feel
a little less alone, a bit more inspired, and as
always a lot more hopeful. And I really think that
season three is going to be a really big anchor
for that and so I'm really looking forward to it,
(01:09):
and for this very first episode, it's a bit of
a special one and it's something that I've been wanting
to do for a long time but needed to find.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
The right time and the right space to do.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So this episode is going to be a little bit different.
I am going to basically be flipping the script and
I have brought in someone that a lot of you
will know. If you follow me on social media, i'll
follow my story, you'll know Genevieve Moore. She's the co
founder of Voices of Hope, one of my very good friends.
And this episode, we're going to be talking about things
(01:41):
that has happened for me over the last few years
that I have not yet talked about. And there's a
lot of reasons that I didn't talk about it publicly
when it happened. But it feels like the right time
now to be able to do that, and to do
so from the position that I'm in, from the perspective
that I have. But it's not something that I wanted
to do, just kind of talking at you all. And
(02:03):
so Jen was kind of there through all of this
and she saw it all firsthand. So I thought that
it'd be a good idea to bring her into this
episode and have her basically, like I said, flip the
script and she's going to be interviewing me. We're going
to be more so just having a conversation. But I
think it's just going to enable me to be able
to talk about this rather than just talking straight to
(02:24):
a mic into a camera. But talking to someone makes
it a little bit easier. I will give a trigger
warning here that this episode will talk about sexual assault
and it will talk about suicidality, and so if that's
something that you feel like you can't deal with at
the moment, or that might really trigger you, please it's
okay to pause this episode now, take care of yourself.
You can come back to it later, not at all,
(02:45):
It's fully up to you. I'm going to welcome Genevieve
more welcome to Hope.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
It's a real the podcast.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Thank you so much for having me, And honestly, I
know we've been friends for a long time, and I
feel really to be trusted in a safe place to
hold this conversation because I know it's not an easy
conversation for you to have, but I think it's so
incredibly important and I know for a fact that unfortunately
a lot of your listeners are going to be able
to relate to something that you're about to talk about.
So thank you, first of all for being brave. How
(03:17):
are you feeling.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I feel going to throw up.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I feel so nervous, I think because I just I
haven't spoken about this publicly, but I just think so
much of everything I've shared in my life has always
been from the point of being so far out of
it that I can I feel like I can talk
about it almost attached, whereas this has been a lot
(03:41):
more recent.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
But I feel like it's so important.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So I feel ready and I feel honored to have
a platform that I can have this conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
But I am very.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Nervous, understandably, and I think, like you said, you know
you haven't rushed into this.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
It's been something you've been thinking about for a while.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
And I just know that people are going to be
really grateful for the opportunity to listen to such a
big part of your life. And I think you know,
people will not be surprised to hear that over the
last few years there's been some things going on behind
the scenes, because I think in many ways you've alluded
to some challenges that you've faced, and so to have
the opportunity to dig deeper into it is something I'm
(04:17):
again really grateful to be part of.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So let's take it back to the beginning.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Tell me from the get go, you had an experience,
for lack of better word, while you were overseas that
started a really really slippery slope for you.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah. So it was.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
It was a few years ago, and I was in
a different country and I ended up in a situation
where I don't drink a lot, like giver at all.
I could literally count on one hand the amount of
times I've ever been drunk. It's just not something that
I do. I don't like that feeling of losing control
(04:58):
or anything. And there was one night that I was
having like a couple of drinks with some people that
I didn't know, and I remember I was being so
careful about the amount that I was drinking because I'm
(05:20):
such a lightweight because I don't drink, and I started
to someone else started pouring my drinks, and I remember
starting to feel really woozy and.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Kind of I didn't really know what was going on, And.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
The night kind of went on and as the night continued,
I just became more and more out of it, and
that night I ended up being sexually assaulted again.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
And I think, I think that the gain.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Part is what's really hard, because it's it was. There
was so much of like how did I end up
back in this situation?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
And I remember.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
My brain was like I could I knew what was happening,
but my body couldn't move and couldn't respond, and I
didn't know if I'd been roofeed or if something.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I didn't know what was going on, but I couldn't
move and it was so traumatizing as that is, but
at this point.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
I was also so in the public eye, and yeah,
I didn't know how to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I remember.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Like later that night, after I was by myself, I
was in the bathroom just on the floor, like losing it.
And at that time, like I wasn't on birth control
or anything, and I remember having I was like crap,
like I I don't know what to do, and so
(07:11):
I ended up the next morning I messaged my doctor,
who I do have a good relationship with that now
not not doctor Stiff, it's it's the doctor that I
now see, and almost like point blank just being like,
this is what happened. I need to like, I don't
know what to do, and she was like, we're going
to get you the emergency peil. I was flying home
(07:33):
that day, but I wasn't going to land in time
to go to the pharmacy, so I had to get
someone to go pick up the pill for me.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
But yeah, that's that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
And there's obviously a lot more to the story and
kind of the aftermath that we'll get into. But I
had alluded a while ago that there was like a
traumatic event that I went through, and I just remember
the comments of people being so like, well, why would
you say that and not like not tell us what
(08:05):
it is and stuff, And it's because it was so
hard for me to.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Say I didn't at that time. I really hadn't processed it.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
So yeah, yeah, it's absolutely awful, and I think, like
you said, almost retraumatizing. I think, you know, a lot
of people, especially people who listen to this podcast, will
have a really good understanding of your story and your
experience and things that happened to you when you were younger.
So I can't begin to imagine how traumatic that was
to re experience things that had happened in the past,
(08:37):
and in terms of you know, you talked about afterwards feeling,
you know, shame, blame.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
You taught me through some of those sort of feelings
and thoughts. I remember.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
There was a couple of people who were very close
to me that I ended up telling that this is
what had happened.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
And I remember sitting there and just I was a mess.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I was crying and I said kind of similar to
what I just said, of like I can't believe this
happened again. And one of the people were like, what
do you mean again, And I was like, I was
sexually assaulted again. And this person just said, I don't
know if you can call it that because you chose
to drink no, and that as someone who like this
(09:27):
person was so close to me, And I was like,
I never wanted that to happen, and I know that,
and the place of advocacy that I'm in, like, I
know that that's not true, but hearing that from someone
that I respected and that I loved broke me. And
I remember I was on the phone to my theory Piston,
just like losing it and then realizing I can't I
(09:51):
can't deal with this because so many people are watching me.
This is going to break me. And so I did
something that I wish I never did, and that was
just blocked it. I went on with my life pretended
it never happened. And in my mind, if I did that,
then it would mean that I wouldn't have to feel
(10:12):
everything attached to it or experience it. And so I
just pretended that everything was fine and that it never happened.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Yeah, and we know that that's not a problem solving namism.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
No, And I know that now, like I think you
knew that then. I knew that then, and.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I still I still did it because I just I
don't I can't even explain it, just that I didn't
see any like I Actually I was talking to my
therapist not too long ago, and we were doing MA therapy,
which has been life changing and it's so wild how
(10:49):
it even works. I can't even comprehend it. But she
was saying that she realized that I have this massive
tendency to block sadness as an emotion, and that if
I get remoly feeling sad about something in my own life,
I will block it because previously those emotions have led
to me not wanting to be here. And so I
(11:10):
think when this was happening and there was still so
many eyes on me and I was still having to
do so much work and all this kind.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Of stuff, that I just I didn't want to feel
these emotions.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I was so scared of what it was going to do,
where it was going to lead, that I was like,
I just have to block it. I can't let it in, know,
But obviously it didn't didn't work.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
No, absolutely not, And like you said, you know, you
know that now and you know that then, But it
almost just shows how deep the trauma was. And I think,
you know, we tell people all the time through our
work the importance of speaking up and sharing what's going on.
So I can't begin to imagine how invalidating it was
to share something that you felt so shameful of which
you shouldn't because it wasn't your fault.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
To then be.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Told that it was your fault for the lack of
better words, you know, and it most definitely wasn't, but
that just adds that shame burden, and I imagine made
sharing that with anyone else perhaps more difficult.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I don't think I did.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I can't actually remember when I told you it was
a while after, yeah, because I was just so like
I was just like, well, that's what everyone's going to think.
And I think that's also what silenced me, was that
I was like, everyone's going to think that, and it's
so it's so wild because I like, I think I
was drinking gin and I had three with the tiniest
(12:33):
like I don't.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Even like the taste of alcohol.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Like that's why I was like, I'm so sure that
I was like something went in my drink or where
someone was poor, but I it was not a feeling that.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I had felt before.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
But I still because someone said that that shame and
like that I did something wrong here, which I think
is really important for me to admit that that's how
I was feeling because becaus me as an advocate who
shares these stories, a lot of people just think, you know,
(13:08):
have it all together, or like you go through something
like that and then you just immediately like I didn't
know how to come back from that, and so bearing
it seemed like the best option because if everyone else
thinks the same thing of me, like, then it's just
gonna solidify these beliefs that I now have that it
was my fault and that there was something wrong with
(13:30):
me and that I let that happen.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
And yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
There's also that added like complexity for you, like you said,
having such a presence on social media and being an
advocate for mental health that, like you said, everything has
to be perfect. And so when you started alluding to
the fact that something had happened but not giving detail
because you weren't ready, which is absolutely understandable and fine,
the backlash or the feedback from people would only have
added to that pain that you were feeling.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, and I think I was really struggling with it
because the reason that I even chose to allude to it,
which people will be like, well, why would you say
it if you weren't ready to.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Talk about it.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
But at that time, it was post Trees Riilan, which
we're going to talk about soon anyway. But it was
my way of trying to tell people, You've got no
idea what's going behind on going on behind the scenes
when you're saying these horrific things to people on social media.
And I was getting crazy messages like you don't know,
you think you know what you see on a screen,
(14:25):
You've got no idea. So That's what I was trying
to allude to and kind of show people without telling
everyone what it was.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
But then people win at me for that as well.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
But you also can't win because if you had switched
off from social media, We've seen it time and time again.
You know, when you were on CCI and weren't able
to be on your phone, people start thinking the worst
and wonder where the heck you are. So you in
some ways had to give somewhat of an explanation. And
it's entirely in your right to share what you want
to share on your social platforms. Yeah, why now, why
have you decided to talk about this now?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I've been doing a lot of therapy and I think
that I feel I'm in a much better place now,
and I feel like there's just so much things that
I learned from it that I think it's really important
for people to.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Know that they're not alone in it, and that.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Going through something like that and not responding the way
that you think you should is normal, and also to
say that blocking it out doesn't work. Like everything that
I learned in that process, and the reason I want
to talk about it is so that people might be
able to learn that faster than I did, because it
(15:37):
just doesn't like it gets to a point where it
eventually comes up and it explodes, and that's what happened
with me. And I think that for people to understand
that they're not alone in that, but also to know
talking about it is the best thing. That it's not
your fault, That no matter what people say or the
situation that you were.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
In, that it's not your fault. And that I think
that whole.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Kind of idea and perception of when you go through
something like that, that you feel like you did something
wrong or that this is something that only happens to
me to understand like I'm literally an advocate, like this is
what I'm known for and it happened to me.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Again, that it can happen to anyway and it should never.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It should never, but that it's yeah, like like you've
just said, and like I know to my core now
that it wasn't my fault and it's not the people
that have gone through this.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
It's not your fault.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
No, But I think what comes with that is a
lot of stigma and lack of understanding, which again is
so good that you're sharing this now that you feel
ready to you know, obviously that was an incredibly traumatic incident,
and I imagine something you continue to work through in
many ways, because, like I mentioned, and you've said, I
imagine it retriggered some things from your past. What would
(16:53):
you say to that version of jazz, you know, if
you go back to that I don't know that next morning,
when it was all very freeh.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Wsh, I would say, talk to someone now, don't wait
and everything that we've just been saying, that this isn't
your fault. And I think, with the foresight that I
(17:23):
now have of everything that happened and unraveled, like the
thing I felt I needed to do to survive at
that time was to block it out. But it didn't
do what I was hoping it would do. That find
the right people to talk to. But yeah, Like I'm
(17:43):
such a visual person and I often struggle with that
in therapy that if I have a flashbout, like a
memory of something, I see it really vividly, And I
still can see myself on that bathroom floor just losing it,
Like it's so vivid and all of the emotions and
everything that came with it. But shat that girl on
(18:04):
the floor, she survived it. She survived the aftermath and
it's going to be so hard. But also it's another thing,
I guess to help people feel this alone.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, I mean, you shouldn't have to go through something
like that to be able to help people. No, the
fact that chosen to she's a lot about you and
you're incredibly resilient. So you know, like we said, this
was a little while ago now, but it's still fresh
and you're still navigating things. I think there were a
few other things, you know, throughout the time, in the
(18:40):
years gone that have made things, you know, tricky in
different ways, and I really want to talk about some
of those moments too, more specifically your time on CTI
and how that impacted your mental health because Jazz, it
was the first time in a long time that I
was incredibly worried about your safety. And I know there
(19:01):
were a lot of other people out there because doctor
Steph and I were in text comms and all someone
had been checking in on you. You know it. It
was a terrifying thing to see as a friend and
as someone that loves you.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Can we talk about that.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, I think there's two pieces too that there's what
happened when I was filming the show and then the
aftermath of it, and what you're referring to is the
aftermath and the what I what I will say is
that during the filming was the very first time that
(19:33):
I didn't have the distractions that I had had outside
of the island with my phone and kind of everything else,
like the business, and it was the first time that
I was forced to face what had happened to me,
and so in and of itself, that experience was so
kind of tied to that where I couldn't really escape it.
And at night that's what I was kind of getting
splashbacks and it kind of all it all came crashing
(19:55):
on me. So that was really difficult. But then as
the show was airing, there was a kind of storyline
that was put out that did not happen, that said
that I was threatening people with a social with my
social media people, which which is actually so stupid when
(20:15):
you think about it, like it's just.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Not like one hundred.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
There was a conversation of like, if anything happens, let
me know, like this is you know, people on social media.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
It's a different ballgame, like it's wild.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
But I mean, because there had been all of the
stuff going on behind the scenes where I was forced
to face what had happened. I had just gone through
a breakup, which was also tied to like there was
so much stuff that I already felt so much self hatred,
(20:46):
to be honest, and then you see, like.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
I remember the day.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
That the episode aired, I was sitting at my friend
Jane's house and she basically had to take my phone
off me because I turned it and I just started
to see these comments and these messages just coming through
of horrific, Like it was so it was so horrific.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
You were terrified. I remember that. I mean, it's nerve wracking.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I imagine seeing yourself on TV, let alone seeing yourself
on TV and then seeing the public responding in a
way that's really unkind yep.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
And I remember my therapist saying that in that time,
like because I already was so significantly struggling, which no
one knew, no one knew, no, no one knew at all,
and she was like, oh, you were, like, what has
happened is all of these people that are saying these
things to you, it is solidifying and confirming these beliefs
that you already have. So you've been looking for evidence
(21:46):
of it, and now suddenly it felt like the whole
world just tend to turned against me. And I remember
having to get on a plane the next morning and
fly straight to Sydney.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I mean, I was at the airport. Someone came up
to me and.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Was like, you effing bitch to my face, and I
was like, so I taken off guard and was like,
what is going on? And then being away from everyone
as well, and having to get up and speak.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
It was so hard.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
But it was the first time in years that I
did not want to be here anymore. And I remember
getting to the point, which is so so hard to admit,
(22:31):
especially now knowing the life that I do have and
the people that are so phenomenal in our community, but
getting to the point that I rewrote my will and
I wrote out letters for the first time in years,
and like, just doing that was so I just remember
being like, how did I end up here again? And
(22:55):
everything I was seeing was just how much everyone hated me,
and I hated myself, like it was horrible.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
But I remember sitting in my therapist's office.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
And this was the day after I had rewrote my
well and done all these things, and I remember you
had sent a message that came through in the middle
of therapy, and it was another advocate in the space
who had taken their own life. And I literally just
remember your words. You were like, this is so insanely sad.
(23:32):
I can't imagine everyone that found hope in his story
how they massed feel And I just read that and
immediately snapped back and was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
My god, like I could. I think I was really.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Hard to see the hundreds of thousands, the millions people
that support and are so there when all you're seeing
is this horrible star. And I was like, well, ever,
like it's a perfect time to go, right. I feel
like I'm canceled anyway. And people have to understand that
was a result of so many things, including this assault
(24:11):
that it happened.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
There was just so much stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
But then I was just had this turning moment, and
I remember sitting there with my therapist and being like,
look at this thing. Jen just messaged me and she
just looked at me and was like, and that's so crazy,
because like I haven't heard that. And I also I
had no idea where you were sitting in that moment
and where you were at with your mental health. Well Yeah,
(24:36):
you didn't know what was going on at that To
that extent, I knew things weren't good because the way
you'd been communicating or lack of communication, had been very
very clear, and obviously there was people in your life
that were checking in, and you know, I was hearing
things from other people, but.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
I didn't know in that moment how dire things were.
And I hope in any way that didn't provide any
sort of what's the word the way I worded things.
You don't want to feel like it's all your responsibility,
But I think you know what I was trying to
say in that moment, without realizing where you were in
your own journey, is that you know so many people
(25:10):
are inspired by you and look up to you and
love you all parts of you, not just the healthy,
thriving jazz, but the jazz that struggling and need some support.
And I just want to come back to those messages quickly,
because I've seen some of them.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I can think of one email in.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Particular, think of the worst thing you could say to
a human being, and times that by ten it was
the most vile, disgusting, horrific, should be illegal, probably is illegal.
Piece of writing I've ever seen in my life, and
so I can't begin to imagine the effect that had
on you. And I think what we were really trying
to do those in your support network. We're sharing messages
(25:47):
that had been really positive. But I can understand that
when you're getting you know, lots of positive messages, but
also many as awful as this, but that's all you
focus on.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I think I really just felt like I had let people.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Down, and that I had let all those people that
do support us down. And I think, I mean, I
think I've struggled for so long anyway too, like the
guilt of the fact that I am still here and
so many people aren't and who said I could do
this and be this for like why why me?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Like why? And I struggle with that for so long.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
And I think that it's so normal for humans to
focus on those negative things, Like you can see a
hundred good comments and you'll focus on that one bad thing,
or like interactions with people and people are saying, you know,
you notice on that one thing that you said wrong,
and you're like just marinate on that for so long.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
It's marinate, that's probably and that you're just like you'll
think about it and you will like. And so I
think that's what was happening, was that.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I had all these beliefs and these things that had
built up, and then no one that was sending me
these messages or these comment It's new the battle that
I was facing. And I think that is another reason
why I wanted to share the story now, is that
social media and bullying is such a huge thing, Oh
(27:14):
my goodness, and I mean there are websites dedicated to
bullying people on social media and it's disgusting. And I
think that people just need to be so freaking aware
that you have no idea.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
As much as you think that you know, you've got.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
No idea what's going on behind the scenes, but even
with your friends and like the people in your life,
you've got no idea what people are facing. And kindness
will always overall that, but you've also got no idea
when the thing you say is going to be the
tipping point, which you know, some of those comments and
messages that I got were a huge part of that,
(27:52):
and I felt that the gravity of that situation. But
I do remember, and I feel like I'm just quoting
my therapist, right and Cinder here she's great, she's great,
Chatasha her recently, but she was saying because I was
expressing that, I was like, I can't believe I've ended
up here again, like this is this is so scary,
and she was very scared for me as well, but
(28:15):
was just so phenomenal and was like, you, you need
to understand that these feelings are the same, but your
response is different. Huge like it feels and it didn't
feel different because I was writing the leaders and I
was doing the things, but this time I was still
asking like I was speaking up earlier. And there were
times I didn't want to go to her office and
she would have to drag my ass there because I
would be like, no, not today, but every single time
(28:38):
I went, and that was also an active choice that
I had to make, where she could drag me as
much as she wanted to. But at the end of
the day, like I had to remember who and what
I was fighting for, the same things I did so
many years ago were tools that I had that I
had to kick back in and I wasn't in the
same position.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
It was different, but also it made sense, and I think.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's what really helped was understanding that my response and
my behavior, it made sense, like considering everything that I happened,
and that had been my default for so long. I
didn't know how to feel these emotions and experience them
without not wanting to be here. And we had a
few like quite big breakthrough moments where I was just
sitting in her office.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
And lot absolutely lost it. And then after.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Twenty minutes I was like like.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Oh my, and I was just like whoa, what happens?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
And she was like, you can feel these things and
it doesn't have to push you over the edge, like
it's okay, and I was like whoom like and obviously
that's like guys every time, but realizing that it ebbs
and flows, and just because I feel it doesn't mean
I'm gonna be stuck in it forever, which is what
I'd always been so afraid of, not even.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Realizing that's what I was so afraid of.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
It's almost about learning to sit in that really uncomfortable
obviously with that support around it.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
But you speak about all the time all the time,
but it's hard, and like you said, if you're if
your history is shown that you know you struggle to
do that, of course that's going to be the way
things go.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
But I think you know what you've also realized through
this process, which is something I also say all the time,
is people can only help you with the information you
give them. So you choosing to bottle up and be
quiet and not share, which yes, might have been something
many people would do for one reason or another, ultimately
didn't help you.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
In the end.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
It was when you opened up and you said I
need help, I'm not okay. That's when the change started
to happen.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, And I think it's so important for people to
understand that on so many levels. But I think the
reason even for me coming forward for it now is
that I think that's what a lot of people who
might be in high impact jobs or like parents, or
are living these busy lifestyles where you.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Just think, I don't have time.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
And that's kind of how I felt as well, was like,
I literally I don't have time to break.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
But unfortunately that's gone. If you don't deal, it's gonna
break you.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
It's gonna happen eventually, And it would have been better
for me to have done it when it happened, rather
than let it build and build and build and build.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
And then get to the point where I'm writing a
will again.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
That should have never happened, but it did, and I think,
you know, giving myself that.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I handled it.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
What I thought was the thing that was going to
keep me here, but obviously my way of handling it
was also the thing that nearly took me out right.
And so yeah, learning that whole thing if people can
only help you with the information you give them, and
having those conversations, and I was able to one of
the most incredible people through this was someone who I
(31:34):
won't name her on this because she'll be she hates
any sort of recognition for anything. But my old supervisor, yes,
who just phenomenal and was really good at kind of
combating the comments that were said. But that only happened
when I shit them shared it. Otherwise it was just
this one sided perspective that I had of like, this
(31:55):
is your fault. But when I was able to talk
to someone else and explain it and they were able
to be like no, I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
It was one heck of a journey being I guess
a support person in your life and a friend. And
I'm so glad that you've the garden or you're deep
in that healing process. But where are you now? How
have you got from there?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
The therapy has been a big thing, but I think
really just going back to my why and my purpose,
which I've always been so strong on anyway, as to
why we do this and the people that we get
to impact. And I think what was so hard in
that time was that until I made my statement, all
I saw was the negative stuff. And so I think
(32:41):
what can often happen in a country like this that's
so tiny is that you then feel like the entire
world hates you. And I think it didn't help going
to the airport and having that person come up to
my face and say that, because then you do feel
like physically everyone is against you, but that's just not
the case.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
And I think being able to.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Go through the process of feeling the emotions and riding
it out as hot freaking was and then realizing like
I'm okay and going back. I had to do so
many speaking events in the middle of this, and it
was so freaking hard, and I remember having to do
a schools tour. We were at a school and it
(33:20):
was so hard. But then I was like, I gave
you an hour. I was like, we can cancel it,
and then seeing all of these kids and being like
that's why, like this is why, and this is so
much bigger than me. But in order to do this,
I have to put myself first and I have to
do the hard yards. And I don't think I did
like work like properly for months, which I will say
(33:42):
as a privilege to be in a position to be
able to do that.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
And to be able to just like, but you didn't
have capacity.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I had zero capacity to do anything other than no,
I couldn't get out of a beard half of the time,
Like I was literally like I like, I don't know
how to function. And but and that's when I got
put being on anti depressants from this as well, which
was also a huge thing because then I was like,
oh my gosh, I'm going back and mailed everyone. Yeah,
and then my friend Jane was like, girl, like, it's
(34:12):
literally the same as you needing to get like midsphere
physical health, like you're fine, and I was like, yeah,
I know, and I know this, like I literally preach this,
and I think that's been That's also why I wanted
to share the story and be like I still like
people often will put us on this pedastool of like,
and we've often been like, oh my gosh, like if
we've had to get to the back to the point
(34:34):
of being put in a psych wood, which by like
I was.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Like, oh no, no, like, don't put me back there,
don't do it.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
But I was probably quite close, and there's.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Nothing wrong with needing that help.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
But I think having the ability to go in and
just be open and honest and having a therapist who
I trust with my life, which has been huge because
I've never had that before. I've never had someone that
I've clicked with like, and that has just been like
I've felt safe enough to kind of just be like,
this is all of me, here's everything, and it's.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Been really it was really really helpful. And also I
mean my dog.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Was a big distraction, lived belly who was crapping everywhere
and I having to clean up at two am. But
I think going back to those basics and not being
afraid to go back to them and being like, Okay,
this is right now, this is about keeping me here.
And then after that it was like, Okay, now it's
about fighting to get out of this mindset, and it's
about rerealizing the mission the purpose, and also that I
(35:37):
would still I think what's been a really big thing
and a really hard thing is that for me, and
I think for both of us. But I know for me,
this blew up so fast, and I felt like ever
since I when I went to film school, I've been
on this trajectory that just never so it just kept going.
And I think it's really easy to not to not
that I lost myself, but I think that you begin
(35:58):
to not know who you are without all of this,
all the stuff that's going on and the crazy busy work,
and I think people often find that even in the
normal jobs, like but also not being given the space
to process confront things.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
What also happened to.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Just be And so I think being able to step
back and be like, I'm like, I'm loved without this
and that's really it's a really like it could be
confusing people to hear, but I think I understand now
and I'm nowhere on the scale of these people, but
I understand how actuabal celebrities can get to the point
(36:31):
when you have thousands of people every day telling you
how much they love you, but they don't know you,
and then you know, it's so hard to be like,
but you don't, you don't know me, and then you
think that maybe people only love you for the things
that you do, but not who you are. And so
I think having your identity being wrapped up, and so
I think you're having that space to just know who
(36:54):
I am and know that I could be okay with
all without doing the stuff, and I could step away.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I won't because I love it so much.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
And every single person that we get to meet, which
is we get so many, so many people, and I
think on our last tour, I probably hugged like a
thousand of you, Like there is sootal evidence, so many
out but every time, like I'm such a hugger and
just being able to do that, I'm like, this is
this is the why and so and I've always been
so big one, like it's really hard to fight if we.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Don't know what you're fighting for.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And I was so lucky that I've had the perspective
of knowing what it was to be healed and that
unfortunately I just had to do the process again and
I probably will have to do the process again. But
we've always been so aware of this being a potential right.
We've had these discussions of like, it's the same, not
I want to compare it, but like, for example, someone
(37:49):
with cancer, they go into remission and even if they
get fully clear, there's still a chance that that will
come back.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
You've disposed to it, if that's something right world.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
And it's the same thing this where I'm like, I've
been aware that this could be something that could come
up again, but it's about being pre armed with that,
and I think I just wasn't at the time, and
everything kind of took me off guard, and I just
let it derail me.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
You needed to read your own book. I did. I
probably should have. I really should have literally have a
tool book. I know I haven't.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
I literally even read that sin side of the audiobook
Slip Sick Brain Struggles.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
But it's such a valid point. You know, We've had
multiple conversations. I can remember one in particular. I think
I was on the phone to you and I was
at my parents' house and we were talking what was
in person, but about the fact that there's almost this pressure,
like you've said multiple times, to be perfect for lack
of a better word, as mental health advocates who talk
about hope and talk about freedom and how you know,
(38:47):
great life is that we can't have moments of pain
and struggle. But actually that's not realistic. No, we're still
human beings. And I think that's another reason why it's
so important that you've shared this part of yourself, because
it humanizes you. It actually makes the realities of facing
into health challenges more normal.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, I think I've really noticed that, probably honestly, over
the last couple of years of I always was trying
so hard to make sure I was always speaking from
the point of hope. And I think that's just because
it's what I was always missing in my life for
all of my struggles, that I wanted to make sure
that that was something that I did. And I think
(39:26):
that at times that came across as this perfect life,
which is just never been the reality. And there's always
so much going on behind the scenes that people don't see.
And I think being able to have these conversations and
I think I called you wanting to do this like
six months ago, yeah, but being unsure as to how
(39:47):
and when and how do I do this conversation, but
knowing that the people that are in our community or
people that are listening to this, or people that follow
us online who maybe were doing really well and then
dipped again to be like that it happens, Okay, it happens.
It's okay, We're all in this together. And there were
(40:09):
times in that moment, in that kind of period for me,
where I could not see my way out. And I
think that's where I was so strongly reminded of the
need for community and communication and TI who we go
on tour with whoft and say like communication is one
of the most important things in life, Like if you
don't know how to communicate, no one knows what's going on.
(40:29):
And I almost lost all communications schools. I literally stopped.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Replying to people, But how would people know what was
going on then? And been able to let people in?
Speaker 2 (40:38):
And I think I was just afraid of people seeing
my mess and seeing me like that, because, like I said,
I felt like I had failed and that I had
failed the people that had trusted us, and I had
failed the people that followed us, and I had failed
the people that were closest to me. And so my
way to deal with that was to just block everyone out.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
And do you know what you've probably done.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
You've probably actually validated a lot of people's experiences through
sharing this and made them feel of it heck of
a lot less alone, but also given them hope that,
you know, one of the common things will here is
this narrative around I've had a relapse or a blip
in the road, or I've you know, gone through something
you know again and now I've failed, I'm back to
square one. But reality is, like you've said, you know,
(41:23):
you went through something again that you never should have,
but this time you had more tools and skills and
probably resilience to overcome that, even in the moments it
didn't feel like it.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, And it's the whole thing of not realizing your
own strength. And I think that a big thing that
I have always tried to focus on, especially with the
amount of people that will come up to us and
be like you saved my life, as putting that power
back in their hands and going all we did was
say hey, there's another option, like you were the one
that's did all the hard work to stay. And I
(41:54):
think for myself and all of those moments having to
go back and be like Jazz like that when that
you've been through this last time, it wasn't all because
my relationships have changed and people around me have changed,
like so much has changed, but the one thing that
hasn't changed is me. And I thought it last time
and it wasn't anyone else that got me through it
(42:14):
at the end of the day. Other things helped one
hundred percent, but I had to do it. And I
think that that related so much to this time. Where
as much as it felt so similar, I didn't act
like I obviously started to do the process of it,
but I think I did the process knowing I wouldn't
(42:34):
actually do it.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
I don't think at any point in time. I mean,
I don't know. I don't think I could say for sure.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
And I think you know, because of my ADHD and
the impulsivity as well, like there was definitely a chance.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
But you were able to intervene. Yeah, I think that
before it.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, something more Yeah, and been able to then identify
it and look at in the face, whereas twelve year
old Jazz absolutely didn't have no she would have run already.
And I think after you sent me that message and
I was in therapy, I made a commitment that I
was like, there's no way, like I will not as
much as I want to, it's not happening. I'm not
gonna I refuse, and it was such a game changer,
(43:13):
and it's like, I feel so horrif it to even
talk about it like that, because that was such a
horrific situation that happened and the loss of this beautiful
life which should have never happened. And I think I
could have had the same realization without that. I think
it was just the message of in the time, how
many the timing and the message of how many people
(43:35):
that have found hope.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
And it wasn't it wasn't a guilt.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Thing, but it was a realization of like the impact
that I've been able to have and the privilege that
I've had in the platform that people have given me,
and the trust, yeah, the trust and to the inn
And I think it's important like that everything I was
feeling at that time was justified and it was so
and it was so hard, but I had a responsibility
(43:58):
to to fight through it that I could have this
conversation so that I could say, like it's possible to
do it all over again, and it's so hard and
it's so draining when you're like I'm back here again,
Like hard did I hand up here again? But it
is like what you said, giving that grace to yourself
and going like jazz like this was horrific, And there
(44:20):
were so many other things in my life that had
fallen apart at the time, and obviously I went through
a very public breakup, which was kind of and to
weave with what had happened overseas as well. When I
began to realize like I was really struggling with physically anyway.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I had a smilar thing.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Even when I was on Dancing with the Stars, I
kind of realized that like when my partner Brad, who
was so he were so great with me and would
have to like be super close to me and I
would freak out.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
I just thought it.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
I was like, uh, like there's a video of I
had to put my hand on his chest for something,
and literally it was supposed to be like that, and
I just had like claws out, like I don't want
to touch you. And so even that kind of carried through.
And I don't know what people know this, but that
was my second relationship. My first one was actually also
when I was in the public eye, but I'd never
posted about it, so no one even knew about it.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
And that didn't last very long.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
And then yeah, I have my my ex was my
secondary relationship, and having that public and then having the breakup,
which also then had to be public because people were
coming up to me on the street and being and
this was all like around idtrs. You were getting messages
like there was just so much happening that people didn't know.
And I could have been honest about it when it
was happening one hundred percent, But I also I was
(45:29):
aware of the position that I have and the responsibility
that I have that I didn't want to free people
out in the fact that people would freak out if
I'm off social media for like three days and they
think that I've you know, done something or something's happened
where it's like okay, it's like yeah, I don't even.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Well, no, if you shared at that time where you'd
be going against everything. We sort of talk about the
importance of going through you know, that healing before because
you can't rush that process. That's not to say, ef
yone's going to go and share this story publicly after
they go through something traumatic or challenging, but you know,
you had to give yourself that time.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Yeah, And I think it's also important to acknowledge, like
it's a never ending journey I think in regards to
like learning and seeing beliefs that come up, and even
like recently with this crazy stalker situation that had burned,
which was absolutely bonkers.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
It's been a big episode. I know, this is so much.
I mean, this is so much. Update you a lot.
It's just so crazy.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
But the reason I wanted to bring this up was that, obviously,
for those of you who haven't seen it, basically man
fluid from the Netherlands, man sending scary messages, man found
my house. I had the criminal forensic behavior specialists from
the police contact me and be like, here's what to do,
worst case scenario. But what I recally know, I don't
even know if I've talked about talk to you about this,
(46:47):
But it was another thing that kind of came up
that made me go, man, this is a forever kind
of going journey where obviously I was terrified for my
life in that time, but what was more scary for
me was me going, oh my gosh, I've put everyone
else that are closest to me in this position where
everyone is at.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Risk of being hurt, and that was so hard to acknowledge.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
By what was so I think has been so how
do I don't even know how to word this, But
because of what I went through with the assault, the
way I dealt with it, and that I didn't talk
about it, I went got my ass straight back into
therapy as this happened, and I thought it was literally
like two days later me and my therapists were doing
emdr on the specific trigger points of that and being like,
(47:34):
oh my gosh, these are like the beliefs that I
had and grain when I was younger, of like being
a burden or making other people's lives harder that had
then come up later yourself again, Yeah, what to then
come up through Treasure Island and then having this moment
have been able to really nab that and acknowledge that
that was the thing that had happened. And it was
amazing how much faster I was able to kind of
come to terms with that belief because I chose to
(47:56):
speak about it than I did for the length of
time that I said nothing about what had happened overseas. Yeah,
And so I think, like, you know, it's a process
that you just are constantly learning and growing, and I'm
so I would never wish that experience on anyone. I
wish one hundred percent that it never happened, but I
(48:16):
learned some very important lessons. And I also think just
seeing the community and the people around me, like are
so so amazing, and I'm so thankful because I think
growing up the way that I did, you still believe
that everyone's going to leave you at some point, Like
that's just kind of is ingrained and it's really hard
(48:38):
to get rid of that. But I think it was
just so testament to like you've only known. I mean,
we've obviously had a rocky relationship podcast to say the least,
but we've stood the strength of time. Like it's been
so I actually, when I was doing the post this
morning with the photos and was thinking.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
About I was like, my godsh we got connected like
sixteen years ago. We're so we're.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
So well, yeah, it was ridiculous, but we've like really
we've come to the point now that we're such good
friends and being like, oh my gosh, this other belief
that I had isn't true. But in order for me
to see that, I had to be here. Absolutely yeah,
And I mean, I'm I'm thankful that I'm in a
position now where I feel like I can talk about
this and and.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Share it and been able to do so on my
own platform.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
I think is really helpful because it means that it's
not kind of getting clickbaited out and whatever, but being
able to kind of have the ability to do that
and have this conversation, especially to do it with someone
who saw it firsthand.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Unfortunately, you saw it all with a breakup.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
I saw it all people coming up to me when
we're at some event and the public breakup hading on public.
Yet people coming up to me asking like you really
saw it all, and yeah, now we get to sit
and chat from a place of you not freaking out.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yeah, I just want to come back to what you
were saying.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
And you know this, this belief that people are going
to leave you, and I think joke's on you because
I think you know everyone in your life's sticking around.
I think you don't give yourself enough credit for how
amazing you are and what you bring to other people's
lives by being here.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
And so I'm not I'm going to get a motion.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
I'm going to cry again, but on behalf of myself
and the voice of FOKE community and everyone that's listening
to this podcast. Thank you for creating such an incredible
platform where you inspire other people, but also taking the
courage to speak about something that has been incredibly challenging
for you to navigate. Because I think it's tenstament, testament, marinate,
whatever the word is, our testament to your strength, but
(50:37):
also your your heart and your desire and your hope
and your belief that whatever you're going through you can
get through. And so I guess I hope that anyone
that's listening to this is reminded once again that the
world is a better place with the minute, as Jazz
always said, and that you know what you're going through
right now is something you can continue to heal from
(50:57):
and it's not your fault.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
As we wrap up, just want to say to people that.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Are feeling the way that I felt, and feeling like
the world is going to be better with them in
all or that this pain's never going to.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
End, It's just it's not true.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
And as much as your situation and your mind and
everything around you might be making you feel that way,
your external reality, it's just so different to what you
internally are trying to believe. Our message that we always
say is that the world is better with you in it.
And I think that it's really hard to believe that
when you're in the middle of it. But the world
(51:41):
is so much better with you in it. And if
you can't believe that right now, someone else's world is
better because you exist. It's literally on the back of
my T shirt right now, my sweaty T shirt onto
these podcast lights. I can smell it from here, honestly,
probably can't you just smell me down the street.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
That's not something that we just say so flippantly about
the world.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
And I also, I think again the twelve billion reason
why I wanted to do this episode is for people
to understand the reason that we say that.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
It's something that we wholeheartedly believe.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
It's not just a term that we throw around or
that we're trying to use to make people feel better like.
It's the truth and every story that we get to
share through voices of hope, all the people that have
lived out their darkest moments and have seen light outside
of it in all different aspects, in all different ways
like recovery and light doesn't look like having this huge
platform or anything like remotely like that, but just waking
(52:31):
up and being excited for life again, or going out
and seeing the sunrise and being like wow, I'm so
And I had moments like that even when we were
at the Jonas Brothers and I was just sitting there
watching you live out your childhood dream and being like
I nearly missed this, like what. And I had the
same moment at the Pink concert. I was at the
Pink concert, and I think that's moment that we'll ever
(52:53):
be so ingrained in my brain. Was standing there as
Pink's just like flying around the stadium and looking up
and looking I just started crying. And I started crying
because I was like I'm here, like what.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
And I just have those moments over and over and
over again.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
And you will have those moments too, the people that
are listening to this, even if you don't feel like
it now, like you'll have a moment of like, oh
my gosh, I nearly missed this.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
We have no idea what's to come, no.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Idea at all.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
I mean, I didn't know this whole situation was about
to come.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
But then there was more hope after that, and there
was more life after that and more experiences after that.
Speaker 1 (53:30):
And the rollercoaster was wild. But I'm glad I stayed on.
I'm glad you stayed on too.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah, so thank you so much for coming on and
for having this conversation with me. I really thought long
and hard about how I wanted to have this conversation
and share about these stories, and I really couldn't think
of a better way to do it than then come
on and do this with you. You've been literally by
my side since I was the same height many years ago,
(53:58):
younger but social standing and standing on ust all at
the same time trying to get in the damn frame
with Jin. But no, I'm so thankful to be on
this journey with you, and I'm pretty sure you've been
on every season of this podcast, have honor.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
This is a very different one and will be.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
A very different episode, like I said to all of
the other episodes to come. But I do want to
say if anything in this episode has brought anything up
for you or has triggered anything for you. I know
I say this every episode every season, but it's because
it's so true that the bravest thing you can do,
as we've learned from my story today, is talk to someone, anyone.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
And if you don't know where to go to helplines.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
We've got a list of them on our website, Voices
of Hope, dot organ here, an altered or in New
Zealand ones even three seven, we've got youth Line. We've
got so many people that are available to talk to
you and been able to do that. Now is the
strongest and bravest thing that you can do, because help
unravel the things going on in your mind. And it's
such a cliche saying and problem problem shared is a
(54:58):
problem halved, But it's just as true. While that doesn't
make the problem go away, it does make you feel
less alone in it and everything that has happened that
may make you feel like a burden or that you
shouldn't be here, it's not your fault.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
There is hope and there is light at the end
of the tunnel.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Please keep going and remember that in all things, hope
is real and change is possible.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
I'll see you guys next week.
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