January 12, 2025 • 29 mins
"It was the right thing for the UK": Boris Johnson 'unapologetic' about Brexit
Boris Johnson is unapologetic about taking his country out of the European Union.
He's in New Zealand for a speaking event and to promote his book 'Unleashed'.
The former British Prime Minister says while there was panic about Brexit at the time, in the long term it's been good for the UK.
He told Kerre Woodham that the split from the EU came in handy during the Covid pandemic.
He says it allowed the country to get early access to vaccines before other European countries.
Johnson says the massive Conservative loss in this year's UK General Election can't be blamed on him.
The Conservative Party's defeat by Keir Starmer's Labour was one of its worst-ever losses.
Johnson told Woodham had he and Rishi Sunak teamed up, it would have been a different result.
He says if they'd been able to put into action some things they'd planned, they would have wiped the floor with Starmer.
He's denied any responsibility for the conflict between Ukraine and Russia, and says progress has been slow since he left office.
The former Prime Minister says it's "absolute bollocks" to suggest the UK could have a role in negotiating peace between Ukraine and Russia.
Johnson says the West has a pathetic paranoia about humiliating Vladimir Putin - and is too half-hearted in helping Ukraine.
He says he's fed up with hearing the nonsense idea we'd risk a nuclear confrontation.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerry Woodhem Mornings podcast from News
Talks EDB. It's former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson on
Kerry Woodham Mornings with Medical Life get a life insurance
quote in just thirty seconds News Talks hevv.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I do need the headphones as it transpires, because I
can't hear when the music cuts out. Now, we took
them out because they're so annoying and given that we're
not taking calls, although I bet there's a few of
you that would love to put a question to my
next guest. Former United Kingdom Prime Minister Boris Johnson has
a new memoir out for the cameras. It is unleashed
(00:41):
as a deep dive into his time in politics in
the media. Mister Johnson led the Conservative Party from twenty
nineteen to twenty twenty two, served as Prime Minister during
Brexit and the height of the COVID nineteen pandemic. He
resigned in twenty twenty two following a mass result revolved
by ministers over his leadership sparked by scandals including party Gate.
(01:02):
Boris Johnson is in New Zealand for the General Capital
Long Lunch Duco, which I will be seing changing my
Frock and the Dunnies and sprinting down to get there
in time, and Boris Johnson joins me.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Now, very very good morning, Very good to see you, Kerry.
Thank you for having me on your show.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Absolutely delighted to have you here. Now. I was watching
a documentary. We were just talking about those documentaries. Do
you ever watch them? The ones that psychoanalyze why you
are the way?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
No, I don't. I'm ashamed to say. I just I
know there's all this stuff out there. I don't have
time to get a grip on what people are saying
or to respond to it all. But Unleashed, which you've
kindly alluded to already, is meant to kind of set
out what I think and to explain what I was
(01:46):
doing and what I hope will still happen in our
great country.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Right because one of the people quoted in the docos
Britich political journalist Andrew Gibson. He wrote, Boris Johnson, The
Rise and Fall of a Troublemaker at number ten. He
remembers you saying when he said to you that he
was writing a book. Right, nothing could be more damaging
than a book told the truth about me.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I don't, well, I don't. I don't remember that, nor
do I think that Andrew. I mean, Andrew's book was
was fine. I think as far as it went. I
only read he did a version when I was Mayor
of London. But you know that was before we'd done
so much other stuff. And the key thing that really
happened in the last few years was the Brexit revolution
(02:30):
and what I try and I think that the trouble
with Brexit is although I believe very very strongly that
it was the right thing for the UK because you
have to imagine the kind of factual where we'd stayed
in the EU, which is increasingly undemocratic, but people don't
see it that way. I have to I have to
accept that a lot of people in my country still
don't see it that way. But I just don't think
(02:53):
we're going back in ever into the INTERVIEWU never never
known and correct. I mean, look at it. You know,
we've outgrown all these other European countries in spite of
being you know, out the EU. People said it would
be terrible. You know, they make the people criticize the
Brexit campaign and they say, oh, well, you misrepped your
(03:15):
great big fat red bus tourtal other great, big fat
liars about the NHS. It's not true that the numbers
we gave were correct. And actually it was the other
side of the argument, the remain guys who said that
if we left the EU we would have a million
people unemployed, you remember that, and they pet the government
paid for nine point through nine point three million pounds
(03:37):
for leaflets to go to every household in the country, saying,
you know, property prices would collapse, there'd be an emergency budget.
Was Does anybody ever say they were the liars? Why
doesn't the BBC ever haul them into the studio and
beat them up for the flagrant liars that they told.
And actually, as I try and explain in Unleashed, if
(03:58):
you look at it, much to my amazement, within weeks
of having delivered the full Brexit and really taken legislative
control of our country for the first time in forty
five years, we had the power to set our own
regulation that came good and twenty seven EU countries waited,
(04:21):
when waited and waited to give approval to vaccinations for COVID,
and because we were outside the EU, we down well
did it within weeks and as soon as we had
the vaccines, and that made a material difference. We had
the fastest vaccine rollout, We got drugs into elderly, vulnerable,
(04:43):
frightened people faster than any other European country into their arms,
and we had protection faster than anywhere else because of Brexit.
Now people say you know it was or a disaster.
I say, Brexit saved lives and that's just the beginning
of the possibilities of regulatory and legi independence. We then
(05:09):
had a faster economic recovery than any other European country,
and you know, far from by the way I said
at much of unemployment. When I stopped being Prime Minister,
we had unemployment at an overall unemployment at a fifty
year low. We had six hundred and twenty thousand more
people in paid employment than before the pandemic began, and
(05:30):
we had youth unemployment at a forty five year low.
So you know, we were right in our fundamental analysis.
And I think in a globalized economy it's very important
for countries to have democratic freedom to do things in
their own interest, just as New Zealand does. And I
don't think for a second that you know New Zealand
(05:51):
or the United States of America or many other countries
would trade away that freedom for a federal structure.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
You've got to be right for longer than a bit, though,
don't you. Because I think critics, the remainers were saying,
I think.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
We're going to be right for for for for centuries.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, I was saying it was a very backward, very insular,
very anti.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
No Europe is insular. Europe is why why why govern?
Why have a system where you create a a very
tight political unit for what five percent of the of
the world's population on the end of the Eurasian land mass.
Why why not? Why why not have a system where
(06:34):
you have you know, everybody setting standards together globally, which
is what you should do, everybody trying to protect the
interests of consumers globally, which is what you should do.
I mean, why create this this tight little European unit
which is actually very exclusive and you know, very ethnically homogeneous.
(06:59):
You know, I don't see it as a I don't
see it as a great liberal project. I see it
as I see it as a something that was based
on you know, it was based on some false assumptions
about Germany, about the return of German power after the
fall of the Berlin Wall.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
A lot of nonsense and view about the EU informed
during your time in Brussels. Did you see it as
a big, unwieldy organization whereby you know, the rich line,
the pockets and those and the no And.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
It does have elements of corruption, that's true, but I
don't want to you know, that's not the worst problem.
The worst problem basically is exactly what you say, Kerry.
It's just not organized so as to deliver for its people, right.
And the great comparison is to be made with the
United States of America. And if you if you look
(07:54):
at growth rates and the economic dynamism of the two entities,
the EU and the United States, contrast their relative performances
since twenty two thousand and eight, right when the crash began.
Look at the fifteen years or so sixteen years since
since the crash of two thousand and eight, the EU
(08:16):
has barely grown. I mean, the UK is now left.
But even if you still include the UK, the EU
has barely grown. That both the EU and the US
were then worth about fourteen to fifteen trillion dollars in GDP.
Since then, the US is now worth about twenty six
(08:41):
trillion dollars, even though it has far fewer people. So
there is no area of the United States which is
not richer than the.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
EU.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
And we need to ask ourselves in Europe, you know
what's wrong with our model? And Brexit is part of
allowing the UK and it's only a permission, it's only
Brexit is what you make of it. We need to
look at what's gone wrong and we need to think about,
you know, can we continue with this model? We have
(09:14):
fifty percent of the world's welfare payments are made in Europe.
We had one of the most regulated environments in the world.
And and you know, contrast the dynamism of the United States,
the growth that yes, the originality that you see there,
That's what I would say. And so my vision for
Britain and post Brexit Britain was to take advantage of
(09:37):
that because I do think that we're you know, we've
always been a free trading country.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Earth are they going to do that under this government?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Well you may well, I mean that's right. I mean,
you know, I've come, I know, gee, I've come to
New Zealand. Lots of people are fleeing the UK at
the moment, and it's very sad. I mean, lots of
lots of the wealth creators are just upping sticks and
they're going to They're going to do buy, They're going
to Milan, for heaven's sake. Not since the nineteen seventies
(10:09):
have I known an actual immigration problem in the UK,
you know, where we had people literally leaving talented people
because they didn't want to work in the UK anymore.
I mean, the UK has always been a magnet my
working lifetime. It's been a magnet for talent. And it's
very very sad.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Because you're saying the afterward of Unleashed we routed a
semi Marxist labor party. This was something who were very
proud of the things you did. Will you list the achievements.
We routed a semi Marxist labor party, many of whom
thought they were finally about to burn power. Well they
have and they're more Marxi.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
And I know, I know what that was. Do you
take a little bit.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Of responsibility for that, because if you'd still been there,
if there hadn't been the pro roguing, if there hadn't
been the party gate, if there hadn't been brilliant.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
The parguing listens divide all this up.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So if you didn't like it, well, but they were wrong,
and the Supreme Courts, well, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
But we then we then went on after don't forget
the chronology is.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
A little trumpy and saying the Supreme Court's.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Wrong, Well, I'm allowed to have see my view about that.
And by the way, the Lord Chief Justice thought the
Supreme Courts wrong, so I'm not in you know, there
were plenty of very respectable legal opinions. I thought the
Supreme Courts wrong, and many other senior senior judges thought
the same. And in terms of what the people thought,
don't forget that that judgment took place before we won
(11:32):
the biggest majority since nineteen seventy nine, fourteen million votes
by the way, four million votes more than Starmar one
in twenty twenty four and forty four percent of the vote.
So you know, whatever you may say about that particular
judgment of the views of the people that they the
election that followed very shortly thereafter, they clearly expressed their
(11:56):
view that whatever the lawyers might say, we should get
on and get Brexit done, which we did. And if
you look at if you look at new Should I
take responsibility for the defeat in twenty twenty four, Absolutely not,
ok and one million percent. And I'll tell you why not,
Because when they kept me doing my job, we were
(12:19):
still winning and we won right up. We were winning
by elections in twenty twenty one. We were barely behind
even in the summer of twenty twenty two, when, as
you rightly say in your introduction, there was a revolt
in my party and I had to step down. But
the Reform pro Party, which I mean the UKIP guys,
(12:40):
the Farage guys, they were on zero zero and that
was People who study UK politics will know that that
was the problem in twenty twenty four because what happened
this year. What happened was that for the first time
in the history of my great party, the Conservative Party,
(13:03):
first time in memory ever, we allowed the right to
be split, and suddenly we had this new thing taking votes.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
And that that been there, that wouldn't have happened.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
It didn't happen it you could just look at the
numbers that didn't within.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
On you to keep the confidence of your ministers. Sure,
explaining explained to me is all very well and good.
You needed to be explaining to your ministers so that
you keep.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
And there I have to put my hands up. And
I think there was a there was a problem, and
the one of the problems, you know, maybe the problem
was my own failure to communicate enough, but there was
another problem, which was COVID and we were literally we
were incarcerating all our MPs for eighteen months at a
(13:50):
pretty crucial period. So they were kind of sitting there
on their laptops reading this terrible stuff about me on
Twitter and so on. And I didn't really realize how
kind of psychologically inundated everybody became by this whole thing.
And they, yeah, I mean, I think that was it
(14:10):
became very difficult. And what I think they you know,
and I've said this to them, I think probably quite
a lot of them now accepted. I don't think they
realized quite the difference between Twitter or social media and
the kind of hate storms that can be produced and
what real people are really feeling about the world and
(14:33):
their and their prospects. And if you look at the
actual numbers and what was happening in the by elections
and so forth, we were still very strong and you know, I,
you know, I'm entitled to my delusion. I genuinely think
that if we kept it together, If Rishie and I,
who were a good team, had stuck together, we'd gone
(14:53):
on and done some of the things that we'd decided
we were going to do together, some of the reforms,
some of the tax cutting as we got to the
end of the Parliament, some of the free market stuff
we were going to do. With Brexit, I think we
would have wiped the floor with.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Which is I think, great chance for a break. Okay,
you've had this, No, no, no, I thought that was
just you know, as a journalist, you'll know a good
art when you hear one. We'd have wiped the floor
with Starmer. News Talk said, be it's ten twenty two.
News Talk said, b it is ten twenty five. My
guest is Boris Johnson Pericles, who I understand you draw
(15:26):
inspiration from the Athenian Well, he was the great Athenian statesman.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Who died of the plague by the way in but
he he took Athen's greatness, and when I was young
he inspired me. Well his speech on democracy is it great?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Well? I thought it was really interesting when one of
his quotes for which is well known, along with better
to die in your feet than live on your knees,
which I love. But we do not say that a
man who takes no interest in public affairs as a
man who minds his own business. We say he has
no business being here at all.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Yes, he was called an idiots in ancient Greek, which
you mean an idiot, which you derive the word idiot, idiot.
He's someone who was turned in on himself.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So do you believe that there is a duty to
take part in politics.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I don't think everybody is under such a such a duty,
but I certainly think I do believe you. Yeah. Look,
because i'm you know, I like like uk, I'm a
I was a journalist for years and years and it
is so and I have great respect for journalism. Yeah,
it must be one of the few. Lifting no no, no, no, no, Gord.
Journalist is very is very difficult and very very important,
and because because they represent millions and millions of people
(16:34):
who can't get into the room and ask politicians questions
and uh, and they have a responsibility to to those
people and what they do is unbelievably portant. But I
felt that it was I still ought to have a
go at trying to do some of these things. I
was being so critical, I was being and also, yeah,
I've got lots of energy, and I thought maybe I
could have a crack at solving some of these these problems.
(16:56):
So I did a job that really suited me, which
was being marrib London. I loved that, absolutely loved that,
and that was very creative. You could, you could, You
can't come up with yes, and you had all it was.
We had the Olympics, we had we had we had
a great series of transport investments, we had projects to
fight crime, projects for.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
All sorts of So why not stop there and be
loved that?
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Well? I mean that that, you know, I guess it's
I guess it's addictive. But I'm glad that I went
on to do what I did because I don't think.
I don't think once we'd voted to leave the EU
in twenty sixteen, I think we were in a real hole.
And because we the British body politic, the establishment couldn't
(17:40):
work out what to do because they weren't, you know,
they weren't psychologically prepared for this thing, and they weren't
ready to deliver a proper Brexit. And I had to
do that.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It really is the elite not understanding the will of
the people, is it isn't it?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I mean I think I think there's a bit. And
also I think people continually underestimate how wise the voters
really are. And you know, so you look at Trump, Okay,
it's a good you know, everybody you know class the
smelling salts to their nostrils and phi lah. You know,
(18:16):
look at the liberal elites in probably in this country,
certainly in my country, in America everywhere. You know, they
regard the election of Trump as this sort of appalling event.
But actually, when you dig into some of the things
that he's talking about and some of the things he
did when he was president before, you can see why
there's a kind of wisdom in the voters, because you know,
(18:41):
he was on some of the things that I like Ukraine,
he was actually he was actually strong now Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
A number of people have already texted me basically holding
you'd responsible. I know you're also reference it in your book.
You're having lunch and a woman come up and pressed
a post it.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I mean, this is this is the Kremlin line, right.
I only really say it, and I only real draw
attention to it because it's in fury. It's so it's
a total lie. So if you think back to April
twenty twenty two, which is kind of two months after
the invasion, a month and a half after the invasion,
the Russians are still in possession of huge amounts of
(19:19):
Ukrainian territory. Right they've been driven out of Kiev, but
they haven't yet been expelled from all the other regions
that the Ukrainians then kicked them out of. And it's
clear that Zelenski needs reassurance and he needs to be
(19:39):
I mean, we need to make it clear that we
believe they can win and that they should fight on.
And that's That's not to say that we interfere in
any negotiations that are going on. That's up to them.
You can't be more Ukrainian than the Ukrainians. If the
Ukrainians want to do a deal to accept the loss
(20:00):
of their territory, to accept Russia threatening them forever, that's fine.
That's fine for them to decide. But all I wanted
to say when I went to Ukraine in April twenty
twenty two was, look, we greatly admire what you've done.
We think it's heroic. We can't put ourselves in your position,
but I just want you to know that if you
(20:22):
do decide to fight on, we're going to back you,
and I'm sure that the West is going to continue
to back you as well. But it's your but it's
your call now. At that stage, there was no way
that Voladimir Lensky could have done a deal. And the
thing that was on the table in Istanbul was a
total disaster for Ukraine. It was the end of their independence.
(20:45):
It was the Russians controlling their army, it was them
controlling a huge proportion of their It was a catastrophe
for the Ukraine. It was the end of Ukraine as
an independent country basically. And I don't think it's Elenski
or any Ukrainian leader could have agreed to that. I
think actually he or she would have been shot by
(21:05):
their own population if they if they'd done that. So
this idea that the UK somehow had some role in
frustrating a negotiated peace between Russia and and Ukraine's absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
More is perhaps Selenski seeing is you giving more than
you were able to give? Was he reading more into
your And.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
I made it very clear that support I made it
very clear we couldn't we couldn't give you know, we
weren't going to give send land troops. There was nothing
we could do like that.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Moral supports very well and good but helpful.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
But what we know, what we did give in ever
intensifying quantities was was munitions and earned weapons. And so
if you think about it, the UK but by the
time I went to Ukraine, we'd already been the first
country in Europe to give a lot of lethal weaponry
in the form of the anti tank missiles which were
(22:02):
really valuable to the Ukrainians and kicking the Russians out
of out of ki the Kiev area. The shoulder made
in Belfast shoulder launched anti tank missiles. The UK then
helped to break the taboo on sending tanks to the Ukraine,
and gradually it ratcheted up. But you know, I had
a criticism of what's happened since in the two and
(22:23):
a half years since I left, it's all gone so slowly,
and it's been like, you know, we're willing to stop
the Ukrainians from losing, so we're not willing to do
what is what is necessary for them to win. Because
we've got this pathetic paranoia about Putin and we think, oh,
can't we can't have Putin. It's like, it's like, we
(22:44):
can't have Putin humiliated. I mean, give me a break.
For a start, that he launched this war in an
act of brutal and criminal aggression against an entirely innocent,
independent country. He deserves to be humiliated. But number two,
he won't be humiliated because he has complete control over
(23:04):
the organs of opinion in Russia. He will decide, you know,
how to present the outcome if he gets pushed out
of Ukraine, he'll present it to some sort of success
for his special military operation. Stuff it. I'm fed up
with hearing this. Not as for the idea that we'd
somehow risk a nuclear confrontational or nuclear strike from It's nonsense.
(23:28):
He's never going to do that. The only guy who
really fears escalation is Putin himself. And the mistake we've made,
in my view, is being too half hearted, too gingerly,
approaching the whole thing too slowly. And we could have
got this thing done a long time ago. The Ukrainians forget,
don't forget what the Ukrainians have done. They've kicked the
(23:50):
Russians out of Kiev, out of Kharkiv, out of Curson.
They've taken a huge chunk of Russian territory in the
cursed region. They are heroic, they're showing the rest of
Europe how to fight. They're amazing. But we haven't, to
be absolutely frank, given them the cover that they need
and to get this thing done. What they need now
(24:12):
is full permission to use the weapons, which is slowly
coming through. They need more weaponry, but they also need
a big Lenley style funding package, and they need they
need they need to show. We need to show. We
need to decide as the Western world, New Zealand, Great Britain,
Nini King America, everyone needs to decide what the final
(24:35):
shape of this nightmare is. How do we get this
thing done? And the answer is that Ukraine, because it
has been brutally invaded, because of the sufferings of the
people of Ukraine, must now have the protection of a
Western security structure, and that, in my view means NATO
and that fixes it. You tell putin, Sorry, buddy, we're
(24:58):
giving them half a trillion a trillion dollars of len lease.
We're giving them the weapons, and they're going to be
in NATO, his whole mindset changes. He will look for
a way out and will bring this scene to an end.
That's what needs to happen. I think Trump, paradoxically, I
think Trump paradoxically might be the man to do that.
Just because though I mean I'm not you know, and
(25:20):
by no means sort of storry eyed about this, I
think it's possible that, you know, I don't know what
he'll do exactly, but the things he's done in the
past have been tough. You know, he gave he gave you.
You also gave the Ukrainians shoulder launched, and he take
this as before we did, and and he did stuff
that the Democrats never did, so he can be tough.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Finally, the other question that is being asked, you're still
a young man.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
You it's kind of you to say.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
So, well, do you know, I consider myself.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
You're certainly you know, you know, much younger than me.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
But you are still young, especially in politics. You're a
young man, and you've got energy, and you're more important.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I certainly got lots of energy, But I mean, I think, but.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
You also know stuff that you didn't know before when
you went into politics. So you're older and wiser.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Her majesty, her late majesty, the Queen said something very
very good, and it was basically that you've got to
stop thinking about yourself and what you and you know,
all the things that you wanted. You've got to think
about whether you can be useful yep, and genuinely, whether
you can be whether your particular talents can be useful
to your country or party at a particular time. And
(26:33):
there were a couple of times in the last fifteen years,
as I say in this book Unleashed, when I definitely
probably was you know, the solution the party was looking
for for the London malty. They tried everybody, believe me,
they and then in twenty nineteen they couldn't find that
a prime minister who could get Brexit done. So I'm
(26:55):
very happy in my life at the moment. And you
know what you said at the beginning is true. I mean,
being outside politics is easier in some ways. You can
speak a mine more freely, you sleep better, it's it's fantastic.
I got a young family. But you know, on the
other hand, if you can be useful, then then then
you should.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Can you be useful?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Well, I didn't. I mean, at the at present, I
can be I can be useful having a wonderful time
in New Zealand. That's why, that's my principle. That's my principle. Well,
I was I'm very pleased by the way I want
to say. I want to say one final thing. I
was very pleased we finally did a free trade agreement
with New Zealand. Yes, and thanks to thank I mean listeners,
your your listener should know that thanks to us the
free trade agreement that we did, the hungry British consumers
(27:42):
are now eating I think about twenty four percent more
New Zealand meat and beverages than they were. So that's lamb.
And you know Cloudy Bay serving on twenty eighteen or
whatever it is, the word word drinking and eating more
of your wonderful stuff. And that, by the way, plenty
(28:02):
of others god knows what else we're taking from New
Zanders as well. And the trade has also increased the
other way, and that that's a that's a good thing
for the world.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I couldn't agree more. I very much look forward to
being in the audience hearing you this afternoon. I know
that you have to can see David's Are.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Are they trying to get me out?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
You look at them all.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I've deliberately, I've deliberately turned my back on your producers
so that they can't drag me out. But now I
turn around, I can see that they're all the way
they think the viewer, they think the listeners have been
bombarded with enough job in lifetime.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Extremely interesting and it's a very good read. You you
write like you write this yourself, because I'll never forget
feeling so ripped off when I finished Open, which had
Andre Eggacy's name on the front, and it's only on
the very last page. You find out.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Every every work I can tell.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I can tell what I read every war.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I'm sure. But I also had advice. I can't. I couldn't. Actually,
I was very bad at making speeches that have been
written for me by other people. I couldn't do it.
It's a terrible weakness because it means that you spend
hours writing the speeches. Frankly, you should be leaving to
somebody else.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
And well, I know I'm the book. The book is
very readable. It covers a lot of heavy topics. There
are a lot of interesting topics, and but it but
it reads.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
About few years geopolitics.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Unleash, Unleash, there you go, unleash, Boris Johnson. Please this
after think okay, News Talk Said B. It is twenty
to eleven.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to News
Talk Said B from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Kerry Woodhem Mornings podcast from News
Talks EDB. It's former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson on
Kerry Woodham Mornings with Medical Life get a life insurance
quote in just thirty seconds News Talks hevv.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I do need the headphones as it transpires, because I
can't hear when the music cuts out. Now, we took
them out because they're so annoying and given that we're
not taking calls, although I bet there's a few of
you that would love to put a question to my
next guest. Former United Kingdom Prime Minister Boris Johnson has
a new memoir out for the cameras. It is unleashed
(00:41):
as a deep dive into his time in politics in
the media. Mister Johnson led the Conservative Party from twenty
nineteen to twenty twenty two, served as Prime Minister during
Brexit and the height of the COVID nineteen pandemic. He
resigned in twenty twenty two following a mass result revolved
by ministers over his leadership sparked by scandals including party Gate.
(01:02):
Boris Johnson is in New Zealand for the General Capital
Long Lunch Duco, which I will be seing changing my
Frock and the Dunnies and sprinting down to get there
in time, and Boris Johnson joins me.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Now, very very good morning, Very good to see you, Kerry.
Thank you for having me on your show.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Absolutely delighted to have you here. Now. I was watching
a documentary. We were just talking about those documentaries. Do
you ever watch them? The ones that psychoanalyze why you
are the way?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
No, I don't. I'm ashamed to say. I just I
know there's all this stuff out there. I don't have
time to get a grip on what people are saying
or to respond to it all. But Unleashed, which you've
kindly alluded to already, is meant to kind of set
out what I think and to explain what I was
(01:46):
doing and what I hope will still happen in our
great country.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Right because one of the people quoted in the docos
Britich political journalist Andrew Gibson. He wrote, Boris Johnson, The
Rise and Fall of a Troublemaker at number ten. He
remembers you saying when he said to you that he
was writing a book. Right, nothing could be more damaging
than a book told the truth about me.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I don't, well, I don't. I don't remember that, nor
do I think that Andrew. I mean, Andrew's book was
was fine. I think as far as it went. I
only read he did a version when I was Mayor
of London. But you know that was before we'd done
so much other stuff. And the key thing that really
happened in the last few years was the Brexit revolution
(02:30):
and what I try and I think that the trouble
with Brexit is although I believe very very strongly that
it was the right thing for the UK because you
have to imagine the kind of factual where we'd stayed
in the EU, which is increasingly undemocratic, but people don't
see it that way. I have to I have to
accept that a lot of people in my country still
don't see it that way. But I just don't think
(02:53):
we're going back in ever into the INTERVIEWU never never
known and correct. I mean, look at it. You know,
we've outgrown all these other European countries in spite of
being you know, out the EU. People said it would
be terrible. You know, they make the people criticize the
Brexit campaign and they say, oh, well, you misrepped your
(03:15):
great big fat red bus tourtal other great, big fat
liars about the NHS. It's not true that the numbers
we gave were correct. And actually it was the other
side of the argument, the remain guys who said that
if we left the EU we would have a million
people unemployed, you remember that, and they pet the government
paid for nine point through nine point three million pounds
(03:37):
for leaflets to go to every household in the country, saying,
you know, property prices would collapse, there'd be an emergency budget.
Was Does anybody ever say they were the liars? Why
doesn't the BBC ever haul them into the studio and
beat them up for the flagrant liars that they told.
And actually, as I try and explain in Unleashed, if
(03:58):
you look at it, much to my amazement, within weeks
of having delivered the full Brexit and really taken legislative
control of our country for the first time in forty
five years, we had the power to set our own
regulation that came good and twenty seven EU countries waited,
(04:21):
when waited and waited to give approval to vaccinations for COVID,
and because we were outside the EU, we down well
did it within weeks and as soon as we had
the vaccines, and that made a material difference. We had
the fastest vaccine rollout, We got drugs into elderly, vulnerable,
(04:43):
frightened people faster than any other European country into their arms,
and we had protection faster than anywhere else because of Brexit.
Now people say you know it was or a disaster.
I say, Brexit saved lives and that's just the beginning
of the possibilities of regulatory and legi independence. We then
(05:09):
had a faster economic recovery than any other European country,
and you know, far from by the way I said
at much of unemployment. When I stopped being Prime Minister,
we had unemployment at an overall unemployment at a fifty
year low. We had six hundred and twenty thousand more
people in paid employment than before the pandemic began, and
(05:30):
we had youth unemployment at a forty five year low.
So you know, we were right in our fundamental analysis.
And I think in a globalized economy it's very important
for countries to have democratic freedom to do things in
their own interest, just as New Zealand does. And I
don't think for a second that you know New Zealand
(05:51):
or the United States of America or many other countries
would trade away that freedom for a federal structure.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
You've got to be right for longer than a bit, though,
don't you. Because I think critics, the remainers were saying,
I think.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
We're going to be right for for for for centuries.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, I was saying it was a very backward, very insular,
very anti.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
No Europe is insular. Europe is why why why govern?
Why have a system where you create a a very
tight political unit for what five percent of the of
the world's population on the end of the Eurasian land mass.
Why why not? Why why not have a system where
(06:34):
you have you know, everybody setting standards together globally, which
is what you should do, everybody trying to protect the
interests of consumers globally, which is what you should do.
I mean, why create this this tight little European unit
which is actually very exclusive and you know, very ethnically homogeneous.
(06:59):
You know, I don't see it as a I don't
see it as a great liberal project. I see it
as I see it as a something that was based
on you know, it was based on some false assumptions
about Germany, about the return of German power after the
fall of the Berlin Wall.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
A lot of nonsense and view about the EU informed
during your time in Brussels. Did you see it as
a big, unwieldy organization whereby you know, the rich line,
the pockets and those and the no And.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
It does have elements of corruption, that's true, but I
don't want to you know, that's not the worst problem.
The worst problem basically is exactly what you say, Kerry.
It's just not organized so as to deliver for its people, right.
And the great comparison is to be made with the
United States of America. And if you if you look
(07:54):
at growth rates and the economic dynamism of the two entities,
the EU and the United States, contrast their relative performances
since twenty two thousand and eight, right when the crash began.
Look at the fifteen years or so sixteen years since
since the crash of two thousand and eight, the EU
(08:16):
has barely grown. I mean, the UK is now left.
But even if you still include the UK, the EU
has barely grown. That both the EU and the US
were then worth about fourteen to fifteen trillion dollars in GDP.
Since then, the US is now worth about twenty six
(08:41):
trillion dollars, even though it has far fewer people. So
there is no area of the United States which is
not richer than the.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
EU.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
And we need to ask ourselves in Europe, you know
what's wrong with our model? And Brexit is part of
allowing the UK and it's only a permission, it's only
Brexit is what you make of it. We need to
look at what's gone wrong and we need to think about,
you know, can we continue with this model? We have
(09:14):
fifty percent of the world's welfare payments are made in Europe.
We had one of the most regulated environments in the world.
And and you know, contrast the dynamism of the United States,
the growth that yes, the originality that you see there,
That's what I would say. And so my vision for
Britain and post Brexit Britain was to take advantage of
(09:37):
that because I do think that we're you know, we've
always been a free trading country.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Earth are they going to do that under this government?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Well you may well, I mean that's right. I mean,
you know, I've come, I know, gee, I've come to
New Zealand. Lots of people are fleeing the UK at
the moment, and it's very sad. I mean, lots of
lots of the wealth creators are just upping sticks and
they're going to They're going to do buy, They're going
to Milan, for heaven's sake. Not since the nineteen seventies
(10:09):
have I known an actual immigration problem in the UK,
you know, where we had people literally leaving talented people
because they didn't want to work in the UK anymore.
I mean, the UK has always been a magnet my
working lifetime. It's been a magnet for talent. And it's
very very sad.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Because you're saying the afterward of Unleashed we routed a
semi Marxist labor party. This was something who were very
proud of the things you did. Will you list the achievements.
We routed a semi Marxist labor party, many of whom
thought they were finally about to burn power. Well they
have and they're more Marxi.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
And I know, I know what that was. Do you
take a little bit.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Of responsibility for that, because if you'd still been there,
if there hadn't been the pro roguing, if there hadn't
been the party gate, if there hadn't been brilliant.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
The parguing listens divide all this up.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So if you didn't like it, well, but they were wrong,
and the Supreme Courts, well, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
But we then we then went on after don't forget
the chronology is.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
A little trumpy and saying the Supreme Court's.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Wrong, Well, I'm allowed to have see my view about that.
And by the way, the Lord Chief Justice thought the
Supreme Courts wrong, so I'm not in you know, there
were plenty of very respectable legal opinions. I thought the
Supreme Courts wrong, and many other senior senior judges thought
the same. And in terms of what the people thought,
don't forget that that judgment took place before we won
(11:32):
the biggest majority since nineteen seventy nine, fourteen million votes
by the way, four million votes more than Starmar one
in twenty twenty four and forty four percent of the vote.
So you know, whatever you may say about that particular
judgment of the views of the people that they the
election that followed very shortly thereafter, they clearly expressed their
(11:56):
view that whatever the lawyers might say, we should get
on and get Brexit done, which we did. And if
you look at if you look at new Should I
take responsibility for the defeat in twenty twenty four, Absolutely not,
ok and one million percent. And I'll tell you why not,
Because when they kept me doing my job, we were
(12:19):
still winning and we won right up. We were winning
by elections in twenty twenty one. We were barely behind
even in the summer of twenty twenty two, when, as
you rightly say in your introduction, there was a revolt
in my party and I had to step down. But
the Reform pro Party, which I mean the UKIP guys,
(12:40):
the Farage guys, they were on zero zero and that
was People who study UK politics will know that that
was the problem in twenty twenty four because what happened
this year. What happened was that for the first time
in the history of my great party, the Conservative Party,
(13:03):
first time in memory ever, we allowed the right to
be split, and suddenly we had this new thing taking votes.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
And that that been there, that wouldn't have happened.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
It didn't happen it you could just look at the
numbers that didn't within.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
On you to keep the confidence of your ministers. Sure,
explaining explained to me is all very well and good.
You needed to be explaining to your ministers so that
you keep.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
And there I have to put my hands up. And
I think there was a there was a problem, and
the one of the problems, you know, maybe the problem
was my own failure to communicate enough, but there was
another problem, which was COVID and we were literally we
were incarcerating all our MPs for eighteen months at a
(13:50):
pretty crucial period. So they were kind of sitting there
on their laptops reading this terrible stuff about me on
Twitter and so on. And I didn't really realize how
kind of psychologically inundated everybody became by this whole thing.
And they, yeah, I mean, I think that was it
(14:10):
became very difficult. And what I think they you know,
and I've said this to them, I think probably quite
a lot of them now accepted. I don't think they
realized quite the difference between Twitter or social media and
the kind of hate storms that can be produced and
what real people are really feeling about the world and
(14:33):
their and their prospects. And if you look at the
actual numbers and what was happening in the by elections
and so forth, we were still very strong and you know, I,
you know, I'm entitled to my delusion. I genuinely think
that if we kept it together, If Rishie and I,
who were a good team, had stuck together, we'd gone
(14:53):
on and done some of the things that we'd decided
we were going to do together, some of the reforms,
some of the tax cutting as we got to the
end of the Parliament, some of the free market stuff
we were going to do. With Brexit, I think we
would have wiped the floor with.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Which is I think, great chance for a break. Okay,
you've had this, No, no, no, I thought that was
just you know, as a journalist, you'll know a good
art when you hear one. We'd have wiped the floor
with Starmer. News Talk said, be it's ten twenty two.
News Talk said, b it is ten twenty five. My
guest is Boris Johnson Pericles, who I understand you draw
(15:26):
inspiration from the Athenian Well, he was the great Athenian statesman.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Who died of the plague by the way in but
he he took Athen's greatness, and when I was young
he inspired me. Well his speech on democracy is it great?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Well? I thought it was really interesting when one of
his quotes for which is well known, along with better
to die in your feet than live on your knees,
which I love. But we do not say that a
man who takes no interest in public affairs as a
man who minds his own business. We say he has
no business being here at all.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Yes, he was called an idiots in ancient Greek, which
you mean an idiot, which you derive the word idiot, idiot.
He's someone who was turned in on himself.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So do you believe that there is a duty to
take part in politics.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I don't think everybody is under such a such a duty,
but I certainly think I do believe you. Yeah. Look,
because i'm you know, I like like uk, I'm a
I was a journalist for years and years and it
is so and I have great respect for journalism. Yeah,
it must be one of the few. Lifting no no, no, no, no, Gord.
Journalist is very is very difficult and very very important,
and because because they represent millions and millions of people
(16:34):
who can't get into the room and ask politicians questions
and uh, and they have a responsibility to to those
people and what they do is unbelievably portant. But I
felt that it was I still ought to have a
go at trying to do some of these things. I
was being so critical, I was being and also, yeah,
I've got lots of energy, and I thought maybe I
could have a crack at solving some of these these problems.
(16:56):
So I did a job that really suited me, which
was being marrib London. I loved that, absolutely loved that,
and that was very creative. You could, you could, You
can't come up with yes, and you had all it was.
We had the Olympics, we had we had we had
a great series of transport investments, we had projects to
fight crime, projects for.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
All sorts of So why not stop there and be
loved that?
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Well? I mean that that, you know, I guess it's
I guess it's addictive. But I'm glad that I went
on to do what I did because I don't think.
I don't think once we'd voted to leave the EU
in twenty sixteen, I think we were in a real hole.
And because we the British body politic, the establishment couldn't
(17:40):
work out what to do because they weren't, you know,
they weren't psychologically prepared for this thing, and they weren't
ready to deliver a proper Brexit. And I had to
do that.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It really is the elite not understanding the will of
the people, is it isn't it?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I mean I think I think there's a bit. And
also I think people continually underestimate how wise the voters
really are. And you know, so you look at Trump, Okay,
it's a good you know, everybody you know class the
smelling salts to their nostrils and phi lah. You know,
(18:16):
look at the liberal elites in probably in this country,
certainly in my country, in America everywhere. You know, they
regard the election of Trump as this sort of appalling event.
But actually, when you dig into some of the things
that he's talking about and some of the things he
did when he was president before, you can see why
there's a kind of wisdom in the voters, because you know,
(18:41):
he was on some of the things that I like Ukraine,
he was actually he was actually strong now Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
A number of people have already texted me basically holding
you'd responsible. I know you're also reference it in your book.
You're having lunch and a woman come up and pressed
a post it.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I mean, this is this is the Kremlin line, right.
I only really say it, and I only real draw
attention to it because it's in fury. It's so it's
a total lie. So if you think back to April
twenty twenty two, which is kind of two months after
the invasion, a month and a half after the invasion,
the Russians are still in possession of huge amounts of
(19:19):
Ukrainian territory. Right they've been driven out of Kiev, but
they haven't yet been expelled from all the other regions
that the Ukrainians then kicked them out of. And it's
clear that Zelenski needs reassurance and he needs to be
(19:39):
I mean, we need to make it clear that we
believe they can win and that they should fight on.
And that's That's not to say that we interfere in
any negotiations that are going on. That's up to them.
You can't be more Ukrainian than the Ukrainians. If the
Ukrainians want to do a deal to accept the loss
(20:00):
of their territory, to accept Russia threatening them forever, that's fine.
That's fine for them to decide. But all I wanted
to say when I went to Ukraine in April twenty
twenty two was, look, we greatly admire what you've done.
We think it's heroic. We can't put ourselves in your position,
but I just want you to know that if you
(20:22):
do decide to fight on, we're going to back you,
and I'm sure that the West is going to continue
to back you as well. But it's your but it's
your call now. At that stage, there was no way
that Voladimir Lensky could have done a deal. And the
thing that was on the table in Istanbul was a
total disaster for Ukraine. It was the end of their independence.
(20:45):
It was the Russians controlling their army, it was them
controlling a huge proportion of their It was a catastrophe
for the Ukraine. It was the end of Ukraine as
an independent country basically. And I don't think it's Elenski
or any Ukrainian leader could have agreed to that. I
think actually he or she would have been shot by
(21:05):
their own population if they if they'd done that. So
this idea that the UK somehow had some role in
frustrating a negotiated peace between Russia and and Ukraine's absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
More is perhaps Selenski seeing is you giving more than
you were able to give? Was he reading more into
your And.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
I made it very clear that support I made it
very clear we couldn't we couldn't give you know, we
weren't going to give send land troops. There was nothing
we could do like that.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Moral supports very well and good but helpful.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
But what we know, what we did give in ever
intensifying quantities was was munitions and earned weapons. And so
if you think about it, the UK but by the
time I went to Ukraine, we'd already been the first
country in Europe to give a lot of lethal weaponry
in the form of the anti tank missiles which were
(22:02):
really valuable to the Ukrainians and kicking the Russians out
of out of ki the Kiev area. The shoulder made
in Belfast shoulder launched anti tank missiles. The UK then
helped to break the taboo on sending tanks to the Ukraine,
and gradually it ratcheted up. But you know, I had
a criticism of what's happened since in the two and
(22:23):
a half years since I left, it's all gone so slowly,
and it's been like, you know, we're willing to stop
the Ukrainians from losing, so we're not willing to do
what is what is necessary for them to win. Because
we've got this pathetic paranoia about Putin and we think, oh,
can't we can't have Putin. It's like, it's like, we
(22:44):
can't have Putin humiliated. I mean, give me a break.
For a start, that he launched this war in an
act of brutal and criminal aggression against an entirely innocent,
independent country. He deserves to be humiliated. But number two,
he won't be humiliated because he has complete control over
(23:04):
the organs of opinion in Russia. He will decide, you know,
how to present the outcome if he gets pushed out
of Ukraine, he'll present it to some sort of success
for his special military operation. Stuff it. I'm fed up
with hearing this. Not as for the idea that we'd
somehow risk a nuclear confrontational or nuclear strike from It's nonsense.
(23:28):
He's never going to do that. The only guy who
really fears escalation is Putin himself. And the mistake we've made,
in my view, is being too half hearted, too gingerly,
approaching the whole thing too slowly. And we could have
got this thing done a long time ago. The Ukrainians forget,
don't forget what the Ukrainians have done. They've kicked the
(23:50):
Russians out of Kiev, out of Kharkiv, out of Curson.
They've taken a huge chunk of Russian territory in the
cursed region. They are heroic, they're showing the rest of
Europe how to fight. They're amazing. But we haven't, to
be absolutely frank, given them the cover that they need
and to get this thing done. What they need now
(24:12):
is full permission to use the weapons, which is slowly
coming through. They need more weaponry, but they also need
a big Lenley style funding package, and they need they
need they need to show. We need to show. We
need to decide as the Western world, New Zealand, Great Britain,
Nini King America, everyone needs to decide what the final
(24:35):
shape of this nightmare is. How do we get this
thing done? And the answer is that Ukraine, because it
has been brutally invaded, because of the sufferings of the
people of Ukraine, must now have the protection of a
Western security structure, and that, in my view means NATO
and that fixes it. You tell putin, Sorry, buddy, we're
(24:58):
giving them half a trillion a trillion dollars of len lease.
We're giving them the weapons, and they're going to be
in NATO, his whole mindset changes. He will look for
a way out and will bring this scene to an end.
That's what needs to happen. I think Trump, paradoxically, I
think Trump paradoxically might be the man to do that.
Just because though I mean I'm not you know, and
(25:20):
by no means sort of storry eyed about this, I
think it's possible that, you know, I don't know what
he'll do exactly, but the things he's done in the
past have been tough. You know, he gave he gave you.
You also gave the Ukrainians shoulder launched, and he take
this as before we did, and and he did stuff
that the Democrats never did, so he can be tough.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Finally, the other question that is being asked, you're still
a young man.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
You it's kind of you to say.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
So, well, do you know, I consider myself.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
You're certainly you know, you know, much younger than me.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
But you are still young, especially in politics. You're a
young man, and you've got energy, and you're more important.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I certainly got lots of energy, But I mean, I think, but.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
You also know stuff that you didn't know before when
you went into politics. So you're older and wiser.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Her majesty, her late majesty, the Queen said something very
very good, and it was basically that you've got to
stop thinking about yourself and what you and you know,
all the things that you wanted. You've got to think
about whether you can be useful yep, and genuinely, whether
you can be whether your particular talents can be useful
to your country or party at a particular time. And
(26:33):
there were a couple of times in the last fifteen years,
as I say in this book Unleashed, when I definitely
probably was you know, the solution the party was looking
for for the London malty. They tried everybody, believe me,
they and then in twenty nineteen they couldn't find that
a prime minister who could get Brexit done. So I'm
(26:55):
very happy in my life at the moment. And you
know what you said at the beginning is true. I mean,
being outside politics is easier in some ways. You can
speak a mine more freely, you sleep better, it's it's fantastic.
I got a young family. But you know, on the
other hand, if you can be useful, then then then
you should.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Can you be useful?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Well, I didn't. I mean, at the at present, I
can be I can be useful having a wonderful time
in New Zealand. That's why, that's my principle. That's my principle. Well,
I was I'm very pleased by the way I want
to say. I want to say one final thing. I
was very pleased we finally did a free trade agreement
with New Zealand. Yes, and thanks to thank I mean listeners,
your your listener should know that thanks to us the
free trade agreement that we did, the hungry British consumers
(27:42):
are now eating I think about twenty four percent more
New Zealand meat and beverages than they were. So that's lamb.
And you know Cloudy Bay serving on twenty eighteen or
whatever it is, the word word drinking and eating more
of your wonderful stuff. And that, by the way, plenty
(28:02):
of others god knows what else we're taking from New
Zanders as well. And the trade has also increased the
other way, and that that's a that's a good thing
for the world.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I couldn't agree more. I very much look forward to
being in the audience hearing you this afternoon. I know
that you have to can see David's Are.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Are they trying to get me out?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
You look at them all.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I've deliberately, I've deliberately turned my back on your producers
so that they can't drag me out. But now I
turn around, I can see that they're all the way
they think the viewer, they think the listeners have been
bombarded with enough job in lifetime.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Extremely interesting and it's a very good read. You you
write like you write this yourself, because I'll never forget
feeling so ripped off when I finished Open, which had
Andre Eggacy's name on the front, and it's only on
the very last page. You find out.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Every every work I can tell.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I can tell what I read every war.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I'm sure. But I also had advice. I can't. I couldn't. Actually,
I was very bad at making speeches that have been
written for me by other people. I couldn't do it.
It's a terrible weakness because it means that you spend
hours writing the speeches. Frankly, you should be leaving to
somebody else.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
And well, I know I'm the book. The book is
very readable. It covers a lot of heavy topics. There
are a lot of interesting topics, and but it but
it reads.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
About few years geopolitics.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Unleash, Unleash, there you go, unleash, Boris Johnson. Please this
after think okay, News Talk Said B. It is twenty
to eleven.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to News
Talk Said B from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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