February 20, 2025 • 35 mins
Hints from the Prime Minister around upcoming changes to charities and taxes.
Christopher Luxon told Kerre Woodham the Goverment's speaking about whether people are "rorting the system" and taking advantage of charities registration.
He says he spoke with Finance and Economic Growth Minister, Nicola Willis, about the matter just yesterday.
Luxon told Woodham some organisations present as a charity but maybe aren't doing charitable work.
He's telling people to keep their eyes on the Budget - around taxation and charity status.
The Prime Minister's also calling for some nurses to take on roles outside hospitals to ease burden on the system.
Christopher Luxon admitted we've got a lot of nurses coming through the system, but don't always have places for them in hospitals.
Luxon told Kerre Woodham we desperately need them in primary and aged care, and in some cases, it takes weeks to get a GP appointment.
He says there's an opportunity to think about how we use our nurses - like nurse practitioners who can increasingly do the work a GP does.
The Prime Minister's also keen to reach across the political aisle in a bid to secure a bipartisan approach to infrastructure.
Luxon revealed he's been in conversation with Labour's finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds, who's supportive of elements of the Government's infrastructure pipeline plan.
Luxon told Woodham that for the Government to actually get things done when it comes to the country's infrastructure problems, a bipartisan solution must be found.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerry Wooden Morning's podcast from News Talk,
said b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News Talk said, be straight into it. Kerry Woodham with
you until midday, the Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and studio
with us until ten o'clock taking your questions on eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty, So get them lined up
right now. It's our first catch up of the year.
It feels like it doesn't feel like the first, does it.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I don't know. It feels like we've seen each other
before that I think it's propably. I just say, you're here,
is looking lovely today. I've heard posting giving you grief
as us coming in about We've had staffshing up the
hair and it's like.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I bet when young people are at radio broadcast school,
they're not talk.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
They're asked to do or trained to do.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You might have to do the bad old tars here
before you get.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I was hoping someone go is over my hair, But
I think I think I'm a lost cause I think the.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Three of them look magnificent. The Prime Minister told Mike
Costing last week, we need to get the economy moving.
We've got to take the barnacles off the boat. Get
it moving faster. We've got a rolling under of announcements
to get the show on the road. Announcements, announcements, announcements.
That's what we used to give the Labor government grief for.
Do you think that you've overpromised and underdelivered?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
No, I think the reality is it's incredibly hard for
New Zealanders right if you think about the last twelve months,
it's been very, very tough. Yeah, food prices have been up,
inflation has been up, interest rates have been up. New
Zealanders feel confident, we see it and that they're saying
that things are going to get better. But actually, right here,
right now, I don't see it and I don't feel
it enough. And so that's the.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Penny from a coffee theory down stairs, husband and wife
coffee shop, and she's like, I know things are going
to get better, but when can they get a bitter
faster because it has been a tough couple of years,
but it's been tough before that as well, which is
not of your own making. You came in saying we
will fix the economy, and we do. I think we
all accept that the economy has to be strong before
(02:00):
we can all do better. Collectively yes, but when.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, so it is. I mean, the first thing you
got to say is, look at has been tough. There's
no doubt about it. We've been in a recession that's
something like we've not seen since nineteen ninety one. And
so what has happened essentially so that people understanding why
we're here, is that you have a lot of government
spending that drives up inflation. Where you got used to
having inflation and the prices of stuff being pretty stable
in New Zealand, they went through the roof. The only
(02:24):
thing you left with is you've got to take interest
rates up. When interest rates go up, then people don't
have money in their pocket to spend in the economy.
And if you're a business owner, you don't actually have money.
You've got big debts as well, and higher cost to
service those debts, and so you can't invest in things.
And then those businesses, after three years of a really
difficult environment, they have less demand for their products and services.
They've got inflation and costs and high interest rate bills,
(02:47):
and they end up laying off workers. And that's why
I keep saying, it may not be sexy stuff, but
you actually need to have good economic managers like you
saw and Bill in John Key and Bill English's era.
That's not as day to day good economic management. So
that's the situation that we inherited fourteen months ago. That's
what we've been working hard through that process. I know
it's been tough, and people will still it's still as tough.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, that people are sleep.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Telling me about it.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Absolutely, sick with fear every day.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Absolutely, And that's why I say, you know, I say,
if you care about lower middle income working New Zealanders,
you run a very good economy and you make tough
choices and you make the trade offs to make sure
that the economy and inflation is under control. So our
job number one is to get inflation under control. That's
that's been important. And the good news is it's gone
from seven percent down to two percent. And I get
(03:36):
that that inflation now being down means that they can
lower interest rates. And you've seen four interest rate cuts
versus what was twelve interest rate rises in the previous lot.
And now that means that people actually going to have
more money to spend in their back pocket, and that's
going to continue to go forward. So I think, you know,
we're in a place where it's been tough, there are
some real signs that the economies on them, you know,
(03:57):
starting to get better. If you're outside Auckland. I spent
a lot of time with farmers. You know, the farming
community is actually feeling really good. Farmer confidence that ten
year high. Farmers are getting profitable, they're starting to spare
money back on buying, buying kit for their farms, all
that good stuff. But yeah, we've seen good exports up
seventeen percent in December, we had jobs growth for the
first time in December January, manufacturing growing for the first
(04:20):
time in two years. Services starting to get better, Tourism
up twelve percent. So I describe at someone like it's
a bit like a lawmar you know, for the first year,
we're pulling it and nothing's happening. It's not sparking, and
it's not firing up. And then it starts to pull.
You pull the cord and actually it starts to sort
of splutter a bit. And then we're in a place where,
as you've heard from the Reserve Bank governors, we go
forward through the course of the year, we now have
inflation under control, which is really important. Something that we
(04:43):
did for thirty years and then we lost formation under
the last government. But we've got that back under control.
You've got interest rates coming down, which we give more
money to people's back pockets. And then importantly you've got
growth starting to lift and rise through the course of it.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Seventy two thousands, So that's the seventy two thousand Kiwis
couldn't wait, you know, they couldn't They've gone and there's
are productive, hard working people with skills.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Well, that's right, I mean they couldn't wait. Yeah, it's
basically the numbers are we've gone from forty three thousand
New Zealand citizens of left New Zealand to forty seven thousand,
twenty three on twenty four. That's just the stats and
the numbers. But the bigger point, you're right, is that
that's why we have to build the economy right, so
that people can work hard and get ahead, that actually
do feel safe living in New Zealand. Their kids are
(05:26):
going to get a world class education competitive to what
they get in other parts of the world, and that
their parents can access time it cost to help.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Them come from because I've been told by construction companies
and the big civil engineers and the like that. It's
all very well and good to have a look at
projects and see whether they're fit for purpose. You know
that they are going to benefit future generations. Everything stopped
in twenty three and there was no pipe.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, But what I'd say now is we do have
like it. We have one hundred and forty eight billion
dollars worth of projects for the Infrastructure Commission. We've got
thirty three billion dollars going into roading projects right it,
Well they start, they have started, So I mean we're
just not enough. We've had phantom projects like Auckland, you
know what was it? Auckland? Like rail, let's get well
into moving harbor crossings. No real projects, a lot of
consultants working on those projects, for sure, But you are right.
(06:10):
What we're looking for is a proper pipeline of projects
over thirty years that are well defined, just like they
do it in New South Wales. Because then those construction
companies do know that they just don't have one project,
but they've actually got a series of.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Projects that's all forward to for forty years, ye twenty years.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
But we've done that. We've done that really badly in
New Zealand, and that's why we've got an Infrastructure Commission
delivering us the thirty year pipeline, not of post it
notes and ideas and bumper stickers, but actual proper projects
at the country really needs.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So that if a new government comes in making well, that's.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Exactly the point, Carrie, because one of the big problems
that we've had in this country is that the politicians
will change and then all the projects change. And the
point is they shouldn't be things up for discussion. They're
not political things, they're actually New Zealand things. And that's
been my immense frustration is that often we think so
short term and with our short political cycles. It shouldn't
be a debate about extending the road from Cambridge to Pierty,
(07:01):
for example, that goes on off, on off, depending up
on which government's about. That's insane. So that's why I
took Chris Bishop, Shane Jones, Simmy and Brown to New
South Wales to actually meet with labor and Liberal premiers
over their past and present. You have taken some of
the labor well, that's what we have tried to do,
as well as reach out then to the labor finance
minister or finance spokesperson Barbe Edmonds great and she's come
(07:25):
forward and said, right, I support what the government's doing
on public private partnerships, and now I've got an investor summit,
and I really want them to be barbed to be
involved in that as well, because I think that's been
part of the problem is that if I go to
New South Wales, you've got a list of thirty years
of projects that are well defined, and then you might
have an economic cycle that says I can spend the
only certain amount of money, or or can spend more
(07:48):
money when the economy is doing well. But the projects
are not in dispute and it doesn't matter which parties
and power. So I want that to be independent of
the governments of the day. Because Auckland light rail was
a classic, right two hundred and fifty to three hundred
million dollars got spent on that project, right three thinking
about three hundred million dollars over six years, and not
a single track was made and not a single route
(08:08):
was agreed. Montreal had the same problem and they started
a year after after Auckland and they completed it within
five years. And people are using that that that light
rail technology transport system. So we have to look at
things for the long term, and often we've been so
short term and so tactical, and we get some money
for a project, and the project comes to me and
then you've got you know, for example, he's a.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Good I'm going to stop you because, well, the good
conversations get into but you're right, it's a good conversation.
But we also need to have labor involved in those
we do.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And that's actually it's funny you say that. I spoke
to Chris Hipkins just two days ago and said, mate,
there's actually a lot of things that are New Zealand
things that we should have a very strong bipartisan view
on that actually should we, you know, we should have
in align view on things like defense, on infrastructure, on
social investment and those sorts of things.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I am going to go to one of our callers,
phill Up, very good morning to you.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Yeah, how are you? How are you going? Chris?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Good Philip, how are you?
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Mate?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
He just took a cat.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
I'm in the fifties, And to be honest, I was
a labor voter. Yeah. I was a labor voted my
whole life. But you guys, I switched to you guys
last year because the past government had no vision. Thank you,
and I believe you have. And I want to talk
to you about energy security. With all the rising engines
in the world and what's what's going on at the moment,
(09:28):
would it not make sense for New Zealand to start
using our own oil and gas and build a refinery
to do so for our own security?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, look, great question, and bang on. I mean, what
you've seen in the world is everyone used to sort
of get the lowest cost globally sourced product and ship
it anywhere around the world. COVID showed us that all
the conflicts have shown us actually we need to be
much more resilient and much more energy and dependent and
secure here at home. My frustration was that you came
out with a bumper stick under the last lot, say
(09:59):
let's end the oil and gas ban, and then we
went through last winter and actually we couldn't. We struggled
to keep the lights on at really decent cost for
people and actually ended up hurting quite a lot of businesses.
So we have abundant natural resources. There's two things we
got to do. One is we've got to increase the
amount of renewable energy we have because we've got lots
of data center is going to consume a lot of electricity.
But we need oil and gas in New Zealand. We
need gas in particular, So what are you going to
(10:20):
do about it? Well, that's why we're ending the oil
and Gas band. We're actually opening up to see what
we can do around getting more domestic production by the
three what are called upstream gas providers and making sure
that we get the incentives and the regulatory settings right
because they have to take on quite a big risk
to go off and invest and try and find gas
which we think we've got in New Zealand, but actually
(10:41):
get it into the system. I think we also should
open up to them even importing gas in the short term.
But the question that Philip's asking about the refinery, that
is also something up for review as well, because that
got shut and moth balled and closed down. I don't well,
there's well, that's that's something we want to look at.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
The pipes.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Well, there might well be, but and I have bloays
of the view that they wasn't just moth board. It
was actually sort of broken out and stopped and it
should never have happened, to be honest, because we need
a strategic piece of asset. Well, we're going to go
look at that. That's something we're going to look at.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
You're looking at a lot of things, Prime Minister. No, no,
but break Prime Minister. Christopher Luxeon is in the studio
taking your questions and we'll go straight to them. Jeff,
good morning to you.
Speaker 6 (11:29):
Yes, good morning, Prime Minister, Thank you for taking my call.
My question, my question is around the healthcare system. I
understand we have cost containment. I totally grasp that concept
and the employment freeze that we have across the public.
My issue is that our staffing levels and our hospital
(11:50):
are critically low. We have had a whole bunch of
nurses qualify this year, but there are no jobs available
for them. We have a need, but to my mind,
we should be boosting such things as healthcare that are
un staffed when we have the capacity to do so,
and it shouldn't just be driven point dollar.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
So, yeah, Jeff, well said, really well said, and I
appreciate you asking the question because there's a lot of
narrative out there that we're actually cutting health and that's
just not true. We've actually tipped we spend about thirty
billion dollars a year on health. We're tipping in another
seventeen billion. We're the government's spending more on health than
we've ever spent. But you are right, there is a
really complex and bureaucratic system called Health New Zealand and
(12:32):
that is not functioning right. There is an awful lot
of management and back office functions, and what we're wanting
to do is make sure that's a really efficient organization
that actually gets the resources out to the nurses, out
to the doctors, out to the front line to actually
improve the outcomes for New Zealanders. So you can put
more money in. And it's not just a money problem,
because we have actually literally put seventeen billion dollars more
in the next three years, the most any government has
(12:54):
actually done. We actually have hired three thousand more nurses
over the last twelve months or year, and that's been great.
But the issue is exactly your point, which is that
we've now got actual of nurses coming through the system
and actually we haven't got places for them always in
the hospital system, but we desperately need them in primary care.
We need them in age care as well, and I
think there's a real opportunity to think about how we
(13:16):
use our nurses, particularly what we call nurse practitioners or
nurse prescribers that can increasingly do more of the work
of what a GP does, because today it could take
you up to two weeks to get an appointment with
a GP, and yet you know, often I might get
a sinus in fiction, I might just want to talk
to a nurse at eleven thirty on a Friday when
I'm freed up and I just want the exithromisin to come't,
(13:39):
you know, as antybotic to be given to me, And well,
she can do that task. And actually I don't need
to book a GP appointment nine to five to be
able to get in and actually clog up an appointment
around that, I think there are things that we could
be doing to make regular prescriptions be extended for longer periods.
So again, you're not in front of a GP doing
those sorts of things. But I just say to you,
we have put a lot of money in and my
(14:00):
frustration is the bureaucracy in healthcare system is incredibly complex
and just a mess. And you are right, the nurses
and the doctors on the frontline are doing a great job,
and actually I want the resources not sitting in the
management team sort of mucking around, you know, reorganizing the system.
I want that money coming out of the back office
into the frontline to those nurses. We have a lot
(14:22):
of nurses. You're right, we should be thinking about how
we use them and actually invest in them to actually
deliver better healthcare. And they can do a lot more
for us in primary care, age care as well as
in the hospital system.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Thank you very much. Prime Minister Christopher Luxen is in
the studio. You're just saying how many layers of management
are there.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
For Yeah, there's from the Chair of Health New Zealand
right through to the patient. There's about twelve to fourteen
layers of management. And that's what and that's what Jeff
was alluding to, is that, yeah, we've got awesome doctors
and nurses, and every keyw you talk to says that
when they've had to use the services, they've just been
well looked after by amazing people.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Who were on the floor.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
But that's my frustration is like, we put a lot
of money in, and we're going to continue to put
money in, but I expect a high performing organization because
that money then gets lost and all that bureaucracy, and
it never gets.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
The front sine going through all those layers.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Well, I mean, I totally get you.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Need people to manage so that the doctors and nurses
contrition they do, and the front line staff. How can
you justify fourteen layers?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
But I think if you're at the front line as
a nurse or a doctor dealing with the healthcare system,
the system has let you down badly, even though you're
doing a kick ass, brilliant job and the patients really
appreciate what you do. But you know, we have to
be real. You can't increase the number of people and
the money and then actually have worse outcomes. The amount
of time people are waiting in emergency departments in part
because they can't get the GP access. Right, Let's not
(15:41):
just focus on the hospitals. Think about the primary care
so that.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Retty talks about, isn't it right from primary care through
to this it's a continuum post hospital care and home care.
It needs to be seamless.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Yeah, so watch this space because you know, Simmy and
Brown's are my fixed guy, and that's what he's there
to do. And I'm telling you, you know, when you've
got your urgent care and you can't get to a GP.
What do you do You go to an emergency department. Well,
then you didn't need to be there. You could have
treated outside that system, which then would have meant that
we could get to the people that we really need
to get to an emergency care. So it's incredibly frustrating.
(16:12):
You're probably sensing my frustration about it as well is
that it's not just a money problem. And we've put
we saved all that money last year in the last
year's budget and we put it into those frontline services.
But we've got a lot of work to do there.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, yeah, you're frustrated. We're frustrated.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Well, I'm not frustrated. I mean, like, I'm just I
got my job as I am shocking that system down
in Wellington to say I expect you to work in
different ways. When we have a problem like our kids
not doing maths properly, within a week, we can make
a decision to actually change the curriculum. This year, the
New Zealand people have their kids being taught a maths
program that teaches in the Times table. It's more like Singapore.
Australian mathematics and that's going to set them up for
(16:48):
a much better success.
Speaker 6 (16:49):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Eleven eleven and twenty one, Kirie, good morning to you.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
Good morning, hey, Chris. The last the last labor lost
because of the fact that they chucked the money at
everything and they made promises that they couldn't keep. And
you guys have said a lot, and I think now
is the time people are sick and tired of people talking, talking, talking,
(17:20):
It's time to do crime. Yesterday Kerrie spoke of some
horrific cases where people should be locked up and yet
they're giving getting things that is absolulutely ridiculous. What are
you going to do and when is it going to
be done? And when is it going to be fixed?
When these judges who are not doing their job properly
(17:42):
are going to be either dropped or spoken to and
told that's not acceptable.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
So what we're doing carry on the sentencing as a
good point that you raise that the judges have been
able to what's called discount sentences, often up to eighty
five percent from what people should be getting. So you
do a serious crime, you don't actually get the penalty
that should go with that crime. So we've actually introduced
to the Parliament a set of laws that actually is
going to limit to the ability the judges to do that,
(18:07):
because if someone's genuinely going to admit that they are guilty,
that will speed up our court care system. So there
needs to be some sort of discount for actually getting
guilty pledges out quickly so that we actually don't have
it clogging up our court system. We can get to
other cases that we need to get to. But equally,
you can't have people coming forward and saying I'm very
very sorry three times right and actually getting a discount
for that. That's unacceptable. And actually you can talk about
(18:29):
people's backgrounds and conditions and all that sort of stuff
to a point, but it's not relevant. I mean, at
the end of the day, you've committed the crime. You
need to do the time. So we're limiting the judges
what they can discount. We're putting a flaw into place
to say, look, there will be reasons for when someone
pleads guilty, and that's good for us. We want to
encourage people to do that so we don't muck around
and waste fees if they are guilty to do that.
(18:50):
And that legislation is going through the Parliament right now.
I just say to you, Carrie on law and Order,
I actually think the key ways I talk to are
feeling safer. And the reason is that you and I
would have talked about coming on the show. Ram raids
every fricking day in New Zealand was basically going off
before the election. RAM raids are down sixty eight percent.
We've actually got our police out on the beat and
(19:11):
people are seeing it. We've got and it's true, we've
actually had a thirty percent increase in the police on
their foot patrols. It's still more to do. We've smashed
the gangs. I mean we're really ripping into gangs because
they're driving so much of the violent crime and the
retail crime is about the police being visible and RAM
rates been going away. And now the third bit we've
got to get away, as you says, the sentencing bit,
and that law has been introduced by Paul Goldsmith into Parliament.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Prime Minister Christopher lexelan studio taking your calls. Lisa, A
very good morning to you. You're a primary school principal.
Speaker 7 (19:42):
He's good morning, curious Lisa, Hell, how are you very
very well?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Thank you? Hey, Lisa, how are you.
Speaker 7 (19:48):
Oh, good morning, Chris. Nice talk to you this morning.
I'm driving to the airport, heading for a meeting down
to Wellington. My question as a prince, and I've got
ninety years under my bout.
Speaker 8 (20:02):
Loving the job.
Speaker 7 (20:03):
But my concern that is around the about teachers, wondering
what doing to improve the training of our teachers, especially
when they've done three years to a degree and then
they come out they have one year to be in
the classroom, but are just not ready for this.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, okay, your phone's breaking up that I've got the
sense of what Lisa's saying.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Firstly, Lisa, thanks for what you're doing. It's an incredible job,
and I understand it quite well because Amanda, my wife,
was a primary school teacher for a long period of
time as well. Look, there's a couple of things going on,
you're right. I mean, we had forty percent of our
year four teachers saying they were unconfident to teach maths
to nine year olds in this country, and as a result,
they teach less maths and so they can often do
the degree. But what Lisa is really talking about is
(20:46):
how do we get them with classroom experience, which is
actually what the old teachers college system used to do
versus what the university system's doing. So there is a
lot that we have to do at the moment. We've obviously,
as you know, we're training. We've done half our primary
school teachers teaching them structured literacy. We're doing that in
situation while they're out there teaching and upgrading their skills now.
But another half have to get through this year. We've
(21:07):
put a whole bunch of resources into the primary school
teachers to sort of push it along really quickly to
get the math curriculum implemented this year, which was actually happening,
and we're trying to do get those resources out. We've
now said and the Teachers Counsel actually was very good
when we had those terrible maths results where eighty percent
of our kids are not where they need to be
on maths going into.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
High school ses. Terrible methage.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, but they've now come out. I thought it was
a very good move to say you've actually got to
have six four year twelve maths to go to become
a primary school teacher, which wasn't previously the requirement. So
no wonder our teachers aren't set up for success to
teach mathematics and mathematics we need to be able to
teach well so that we can do all the other
things we need to do. So we're putting resources into
the teachers as you would have seen on the mass
curriculum and nonstructured literacy, which is the one way we
(21:50):
want to.
Speaker 7 (21:50):
Teach all our custory.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Get more teachers in classroom time.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Well, that is a genuinely good question, which is do
we go back to what we had around teachers colleges
or do you find ways to get more section time
with primary school teachers out into the classrooms. It is
more section time, I think, is what teachers actually need
to be emerging teachers need to do. Because you can
be very brain smart at a university, think great at
writing an essay, but if you're not good with the
(22:15):
kids in the classroom, you're not learning from experienced teachers.
That's a problem.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Is section time the answer? Lisa? Do you think?
Speaker 7 (22:22):
Yeah, Well, I'm in the situation where I've taken on
a beginning teacher trained that way because it's really hard
to get teachers, and she's had fourteen weeks in a
year to prepare for the classroom. He doesn't know how
to administer the tea. He hasn't got the curriculum knowledge.
I was trained of being that. I trained in eighty
eight to ninety at Parmaceanots College of Education and we
(22:47):
still in three years didn't get enough to face the
rigular of what is happening.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
And I really.
Speaker 7 (22:56):
Admire, you know, the things that are coming in at
the moment, but when we know that our workforce are
really stretched Principalship. Before I got in my car to
come to go to Wellington, I've done three home visits
to try and find out where our somebody are, why.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
They're not well done.
Speaker 7 (23:14):
You the just it's just not But I don't have
enough time in the day. I'm covering the RT principal
release and I'm trying to manage all of that. And
the biggest thing is is we can't teach children if
they're not in class. But we also can't teach children
adequately if our teachers aren't trained. And I feel really
(23:35):
sorry for our beginning teachers because they are not set
up for success and that's why they leave after two
years because it's just.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Too hard and the practical and classroom skills are really
critical for their success. You can't just be BookSmart intellectual
about that. So that's well, that's that's that's the conversation
we've got to have about what do we do because
you can't. I mean, do you want to go back
to a three year teachers college kind of set up
or do you actually find a way to use the
system we've got because we can take years to do that.
(24:03):
It's going to take years to get that system back
and play again. But the questions, we don't have time.
So we're trying to sort of change the wheel while
we're driving the car by getting immediately resources into teachers.
But Lisa's just hit the nail on the head, hasn't she.
She's got a lot on her plate and she's in
now having to spend time doing the training that should
have been done before the teachers show up in the schools.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
And not everybody's going to have Lisa that's going to
look after them, ma.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
But I just have to say, in the first twelve
months and education, what are we trying to do? Lisa's right,
we've had forty five percent of our kids going to
school regularly. Most countries are eighty five percent. Then you've
had really abysmal reading schools. Half aren't ready to go
to high school at the level they need to be.
Eighty percent of the kids aren't were they need to
be on mass So we have said we've made some
conscious choices to say, we've got to focus on attendance.
We've got to focus on maths and structured literacy, which
(24:47):
is teaching our kids to read like we did with
phonics and all that good stuff. We've got to then continue.
We've tried to jerry get the resources in and we've
got to make sure that obviously we deal with the
teacher quality and training that we're going so they're set
up for more success.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
News Talk said, be so many questions from so many
great questions. There's some great questions. Hey, one thing that
really really jerks my leash is Destiny Church hate speech, bullying, assault.
What's the government approach to this gang? Could you please
assess their charity status and recommend ID audit their activities
and could they please have their patches removed?
Speaker 7 (25:21):
That?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah, utterly unacceptable. A. I mean, we want to have
free speech in New Zealand. We want people to be
able to protest. They should be able to do that peacefully.
And respectfully, but what we saw on the weekend, the
intimidation of council staff in a public facility utterly unacceptable.
So I know there's a police investigation going on around that,
which is exactly where it should sit, because you know
that is a problem. And also you know the yeah,
(25:44):
the charities are registration and whether the people are routing
the system as something that we and Nicola willis and
I've spoken about even again yesterday. So watch the budget.
That's when we get all our financial stuff sort of
sorted around taxation and around all those sorts of charity status,
all that sort of stuff. We'll look into it.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, And didn't budgets to individual organizations get named as
not being charities anymore?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Well, I mean it's just you know, there's a whole
bunch of different organizations that might set up different structures
to present as a charity but actually aren't doing charitable work. No,
And so that's the stuff that we are very hot
on that we've got to say there are genuine charities
doing great work and that they should be protected and
gave some benefit around that. But there are other bits
(26:26):
that we've got to say no, actually, sorry, you're not
meeting that criteria.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
It's things like the you know, David Seymoll's bill that
create this kind of division and descent and them and
us and embolden. We don't want that classes like Destiny
Church to do what they do.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
It's very easy. And I mean, this is a conversation
I have with many other world leaders, like the everyone
is grumpy, right, everyone is anxious. We're living in an
age of massive disruption and people are feeling it and
they're frustrated, and you're seeing it with much shorter political cycles.
But we have a choice in New Zealand. You know,
do we want to go down the road that we've
seen in Western Europe and North America. We get very polarized,
(27:02):
and we go to our corners and we hang out
with the same people have the same views, and we're
in our own echo chambers on all sides of any debate.
Or do we actually choose to actually work together and
try and bind away and find a way forward together
because we're seeing what's happened in global politics and everywhere,
and we're seeing it here as well, and there's rising
level of tension and frustration. And I get that, but one,
(27:24):
you know, you can't. Everyone on each side is adamant
that they are right and the other side's wrong. And unless,
as my mum used to say to me as a
little boy, you've got to walk across the room, find
someone different from you and actually have an engaged debate
that isn't personal with all the invective that goes with that,
and actually debate the issue, not the individual. And that
is about us collectively as leaders, actually modeling that out.
(27:45):
And that's why I keep saying I ask all political
leaders to watch their rhetoric. And actually, because it's easy
to go fire up a bunch of people and make
them angry. Anyone can do that Parliament there anyone can
do that.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Time wasted on petty points scoring like artat or New
Zealand and you.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Know, yeah, well we're telling you the New Zealand people
want this government and their political leaders focused on the
issues that matter to them. And that is why I
keep saying growth, growth, growth this year, that's what's going
to help. Okay, in order, Okay, there's two our questions.
Oh goodness, I'm going to try and rip through as
million as I can.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Hi Jake.
Speaker 8 (28:17):
Higman, Kerry Goome on Prime Minister Jake right AARKI this
very brief.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
I like to hassle.
Speaker 8 (28:22):
I mean when I like the hastle of Chris Bishop
a lot, I'm not surely enjoys it. Anyway, This is
a this is an issue that will manage to all
New Zealand. Does I've seen my private home insurance go
from four hundred and thirty one dollars a month to
eight hundred and eighty months in three years. They've aa
of insurance have increased at one hundred percent, and then
council rates have gone up about thirty or forty percent
in the last few years too. And on the current trajectory,
(28:46):
for example, an eight thousand dollar rates spell and at
ten percent of a year with the council lower had
cancel will go from eight thousand and sixteen thousand a
year and my insurance will increase to twenty three thousand
a year and five years on the current trajectory, I mean,
I see, I just see the funding model for cancils
broken and private home insurance being unaffordable. I mean, interest
rates coming down this great, but it costs on the
(29:07):
other side of things that just going skyrocketing. And it's
just it's unaffordable for everyone.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah, yeah, I mean Jake's raising some very good points.
There's two issues on the council side. Actually, councils how
they organize their funding and financing is actually really important
and we haven't adopted without going into it, like when
I look at the investment that councils need to make
around water assets, for example, they need to be able
to fund and finance those with long term debt, and
(29:32):
they just haven't done the financial management of it very well.
You saw that here in Auckland their proposal for a
twenty six percent rate rise. We've DoD a deal with
the mire and got water care sorted and the rates
came down to seven percent. And Wellington where Jakers it's
actually crazy the o the water assets aren't well managed
and as a result council just keep getting money out
of short term reserves rather than getting the funding and financing.
(29:52):
So there's a lot that we can do there. I
also think councils actually are wasting a hell of a
lot of money on things that actually aren't that important.
They've got to be the mustos rather than the nice
to dos. And it's all very well in Wellington having
a lovely convention center that's losing money. But actually when
you're not fixed your pipes, that's a problem. So there's
some things around what's called the funding and financing and
how we do what's called saying, and we have done,
(30:13):
and we're also publishing schoolcards now on councils so that
we're actually really clear to the rate payers about what
they are and getting versus other councils performances. And you know,
we've talked even about rate caps for example, to force
the councils to make tougher decisions like families have had to,
business have had to, and even central government we're having
to as well. So there's an issue around councils. And
(30:33):
then there is an issue as Jake said about is
there a different mechanism by which we actually let you
know they can raise revenue as well. But I want
well run councils that are managing the costs and the
budgets well, and often there's not enough financial literacy in
the councils to do that job well. On the second
point which Jake's raising around insurance New Zealand, when you
are a global insurer, they've looked at the events over
(30:54):
the last few years, and I think we are the
second sort of natural hazard event country that's actually driven
as creating higher risk. You know, if you think about
the weather events that we've had and think about the
earthquake that we've had as a result, that's what's driving
a lot of that. They see INSI as higher risk
and they say it's not much and there's a result
they take the premiums up and in somebody's you know
that we don't want them to withdraw any insurance from
(31:16):
New Zealand, which is what the alternative could be.
Speaker 7 (31:18):
Now.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Having said that, what we have to deal with in
New Zealand is climate adaptation, and that means that property
owners and local government and central government and banks and
insurers need to think about how we manage the risk
around some of our property where we're really exposed and
some of our towns across the country. So there is
a real issue that New Zealand is a risk profile
for these global insurers as much higher given the recent
(31:40):
events the last decade or so.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
So there's not much we can do.
Speaker 7 (31:43):
Well.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
We can't go capping insurance because the insuran is the
easiest thing for them to do globally, is actually just
withdraw from New Zealand and we don't have any insurance
options and we don't want that, but the government has
to do a better job of managing the risk that
sits there around some of these climate events and the
damage it causes to some of our towns and properties.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Oh man, we did another hour because I've got Kubiu
top of.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Theve Well, that's exactly, that's a good case in point.
And so were built where they shouldn't be how we're built.
So you've got responsibility. And this is not going to
be solved in one generation. It's going to be multiple generations,
and it's going to be multiple governments. And that's why
again I need to buy partisan approach to how we're
going to deal with that issue.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
We if you're talking bipartisan, start with we need, Yeah, we.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Need that's what That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
We do need that.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
You know, it's New Zealand Inc. We need to think
about how we're going to deal with that so we
can get the risk down and manage the risk.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
News Talk said, b that's it. Gosh, it goes quick.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
We do need another hour, really, we do need because
it's actually love it well, I actually really do because
I love this format because actually so much of my
life is dealing with the press gallery in Wellington and
it's a three to six second grab on the six
o'clock news, and from that people form our impression of
what and issue. You need to get into these issues
and unpack them more because I think New Zealanders really
(32:53):
do actually want to understand what is the reality of
where we are and more and portantly, what's the plan
and how are we going to get it out out
of where we are? And so I really do appreciate
the opportunity and I'd papily go for longer because actually
there's some really good you know that last question around
insurance and rates. There's a whole bunch of thinking behind
that that actually, and backstory and backstory and context that
people need to understand and partners. Yeah, there's human stories.
(33:15):
But the important thing is, you know, the issues often
can look really simple from the outside, but there's often
complexity in there that you're trying to work your way through.
It was simple, it would have been solved, and we
don't want to hear.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
About complex and difficulty. As an electorate. We want you
to do a Trump and just sign executive orders, and.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
A presidential system with executive orders would be very fascinating.
But we have an m MP parliamentary system in New
Zealand and that's the system the New Zealand people have
selected multiple times and my job is to make it
work as best as I possibly can, to focus on
getting the system to limpy.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Is it harder than you like? Because you're into it now,
you're right down in your overalls, covered in oil and
crap from the Syria, trying to get the infrastructure of
the country fixed and up and working for everybody. Is
it harder than you thought? And it you're asked off
that you're not getting more gratitude.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
No, I don't care, because you know, I came to
politics four years ago because I love the country. I
lived overseas for sixteen years. I think it's got tremendous
potential and I think we're going down the wrong road.
So I've come there saying I don't want to get
to ninety years old looking back, saying maybe there was
something I could have done or offered or helped with.
So now I'm loving the job. I'm really you know,
I'm into the issues because the hard issues to sort through.
(34:28):
But they need to be dealt with because I think
we have a fantastic future and we've just got to
get through the pain and get to the other side
and get some tough decisions and things sorted. How much
these these things have all accumulated, The things we've talked
about today have accumulated over many years, right, but how
much more pain?
Speaker 6 (34:44):
Well?
Speaker 3 (34:44):
I think we're seeing signs of improvement, right, we really are,
and we can get to the other side. You're seeing
you know, inflation down, interest rates coming down, growth going up.
That's good, but we've got a bigger opportunity to be
how do we do more?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Prime is still lovely to see you, good toake.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
news Talks. It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Oh
You're listening to the Kerry Wooden Morning's podcast from News Talk,
said b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News Talk said, be straight into it. Kerry Woodham with
you until midday, the Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and studio
with us until ten o'clock taking your questions on eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty, So get them lined up
right now. It's our first catch up of the year.
It feels like it doesn't feel like the first, does it.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I don't know. It feels like we've seen each other
before that I think it's propably. I just say, you're here,
is looking lovely today. I've heard posting giving you grief
as us coming in about We've had staffshing up the
hair and it's like.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I bet when young people are at radio broadcast school,
they're not talk.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
They're asked to do or trained to do.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You might have to do the bad old tars here
before you get.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I was hoping someone go is over my hair, But
I think I think I'm a lost cause I think the.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Three of them look magnificent. The Prime Minister told Mike
Costing last week, we need to get the economy moving.
We've got to take the barnacles off the boat. Get
it moving faster. We've got a rolling under of announcements
to get the show on the road. Announcements, announcements, announcements.
That's what we used to give the Labor government grief for.
Do you think that you've overpromised and underdelivered?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
No, I think the reality is it's incredibly hard for
New Zealanders right if you think about the last twelve months,
it's been very, very tough. Yeah, food prices have been up,
inflation has been up, interest rates have been up. New
Zealanders feel confident, we see it and that they're saying
that things are going to get better. But actually, right here,
right now, I don't see it and I don't feel
it enough. And so that's the.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Penny from a coffee theory down stairs, husband and wife
coffee shop, and she's like, I know things are going
to get better, but when can they get a bitter
faster because it has been a tough couple of years,
but it's been tough before that as well, which is
not of your own making. You came in saying we
will fix the economy, and we do. I think we
all accept that the economy has to be strong before
(02:00):
we can all do better. Collectively yes, but when.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, so it is. I mean, the first thing you
got to say is, look at has been tough. There's
no doubt about it. We've been in a recession that's
something like we've not seen since nineteen ninety one. And
so what has happened essentially so that people understanding why
we're here, is that you have a lot of government
spending that drives up inflation. Where you got used to
having inflation and the prices of stuff being pretty stable
in New Zealand, they went through the roof. The only
(02:24):
thing you left with is you've got to take interest
rates up. When interest rates go up, then people don't
have money in their pocket to spend in the economy.
And if you're a business owner, you don't actually have money.
You've got big debts as well, and higher cost to
service those debts, and so you can't invest in things.
And then those businesses, after three years of a really
difficult environment, they have less demand for their products and services.
They've got inflation and costs and high interest rate bills,
(02:47):
and they end up laying off workers. And that's why
I keep saying, it may not be sexy stuff, but
you actually need to have good economic managers like you
saw and Bill in John Key and Bill English's era.
That's not as day to day good economic management. So
that's the situation that we inherited fourteen months ago. That's
what we've been working hard through that process. I know
it's been tough, and people will still it's still as tough.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, that people are sleep.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Telling me about it.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Absolutely, sick with fear every day.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Absolutely, And that's why I say, you know, I say,
if you care about lower middle income working New Zealanders,
you run a very good economy and you make tough
choices and you make the trade offs to make sure
that the economy and inflation is under control. So our
job number one is to get inflation under control. That's
that's been important. And the good news is it's gone
from seven percent down to two percent. And I get
(03:36):
that that inflation now being down means that they can
lower interest rates. And you've seen four interest rate cuts
versus what was twelve interest rate rises in the previous lot.
And now that means that people actually going to have
more money to spend in their back pocket, and that's
going to continue to go forward. So I think, you know,
we're in a place where it's been tough, there are
some real signs that the economies on them, you know,
(03:57):
starting to get better. If you're outside Auckland. I spent
a lot of time with farmers. You know, the farming
community is actually feeling really good. Farmer confidence that ten
year high. Farmers are getting profitable, they're starting to spare
money back on buying, buying kit for their farms, all
that good stuff. But yeah, we've seen good exports up
seventeen percent in December, we had jobs growth for the
first time in December January, manufacturing growing for the first
(04:20):
time in two years. Services starting to get better, Tourism
up twelve percent. So I describe at someone like it's
a bit like a lawmar you know, for the first year,
we're pulling it and nothing's happening. It's not sparking, and
it's not firing up. And then it starts to pull.
You pull the cord and actually it starts to sort
of splutter a bit. And then we're in a place where,
as you've heard from the Reserve Bank governors, we go
forward through the course of the year, we now have
inflation under control, which is really important. Something that we
(04:43):
did for thirty years and then we lost formation under
the last government. But we've got that back under control.
You've got interest rates coming down, which we give more
money to people's back pockets. And then importantly you've got
growth starting to lift and rise through the course of it.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Seventy two thousands, So that's the seventy two thousand Kiwis
couldn't wait, you know, they couldn't They've gone and there's
are productive, hard working people with skills.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Well, that's right, I mean they couldn't wait. Yeah, it's
basically the numbers are we've gone from forty three thousand
New Zealand citizens of left New Zealand to forty seven thousand,
twenty three on twenty four. That's just the stats and
the numbers. But the bigger point, you're right, is that
that's why we have to build the economy right, so
that people can work hard and get ahead, that actually
do feel safe living in New Zealand. Their kids are
(05:26):
going to get a world class education competitive to what
they get in other parts of the world, and that
their parents can access time it cost to help.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Them come from because I've been told by construction companies
and the big civil engineers and the like that. It's
all very well and good to have a look at
projects and see whether they're fit for purpose. You know
that they are going to benefit future generations. Everything stopped
in twenty three and there was no pipe.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, But what I'd say now is we do have
like it. We have one hundred and forty eight billion
dollars worth of projects for the Infrastructure Commission. We've got
thirty three billion dollars going into roading projects right it,
Well they start, they have started, So I mean we're
just not enough. We've had phantom projects like Auckland, you
know what was it? Auckland? Like rail, let's get well
into moving harbor crossings. No real projects, a lot of
consultants working on those projects, for sure, But you are right.
(06:10):
What we're looking for is a proper pipeline of projects
over thirty years that are well defined, just like they
do it in New South Wales. Because then those construction
companies do know that they just don't have one project,
but they've actually got a series of.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Projects that's all forward to for forty years, ye twenty years.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
But we've done that. We've done that really badly in
New Zealand, and that's why we've got an Infrastructure Commission
delivering us the thirty year pipeline, not of post it
notes and ideas and bumper stickers, but actual proper projects
at the country really needs.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So that if a new government comes in making well, that's.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Exactly the point, Carrie, because one of the big problems
that we've had in this country is that the politicians
will change and then all the projects change. And the
point is they shouldn't be things up for discussion. They're
not political things, they're actually New Zealand things. And that's
been my immense frustration is that often we think so
short term and with our short political cycles. It shouldn't
be a debate about extending the road from Cambridge to Pierty,
(07:01):
for example, that goes on off, on off, depending up
on which government's about. That's insane. So that's why I
took Chris Bishop, Shane Jones, Simmy and Brown to New
South Wales to actually meet with labor and Liberal premiers
over their past and present. You have taken some of
the labor well, that's what we have tried to do,
as well as reach out then to the labor finance
minister or finance spokesperson Barbe Edmonds great and she's come
(07:25):
forward and said, right, I support what the government's doing
on public private partnerships, and now I've got an investor summit,
and I really want them to be barbed to be
involved in that as well, because I think that's been
part of the problem is that if I go to
New South Wales, you've got a list of thirty years
of projects that are well defined, and then you might
have an economic cycle that says I can spend the
only certain amount of money, or or can spend more
(07:48):
money when the economy is doing well. But the projects
are not in dispute and it doesn't matter which parties
and power. So I want that to be independent of
the governments of the day. Because Auckland light rail was
a classic, right two hundred and fifty to three hundred
million dollars got spent on that project, right three thinking
about three hundred million dollars over six years, and not
a single track was made and not a single route
(08:08):
was agreed. Montreal had the same problem and they started
a year after after Auckland and they completed it within
five years. And people are using that that that light
rail technology transport system. So we have to look at
things for the long term, and often we've been so
short term and so tactical, and we get some money
for a project, and the project comes to me and
then you've got you know, for example, he's a.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Good I'm going to stop you because, well, the good
conversations get into but you're right, it's a good conversation.
But we also need to have labor involved in those
we do.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And that's actually it's funny you say that. I spoke
to Chris Hipkins just two days ago and said, mate,
there's actually a lot of things that are New Zealand
things that we should have a very strong bipartisan view
on that actually should we, you know, we should have
in align view on things like defense, on infrastructure, on
social investment and those sorts of things.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I am going to go to one of our callers,
phill Up, very good morning to you.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Yeah, how are you? How are you going? Chris?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Good Philip, how are you?
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Mate?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
He just took a cat.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
I'm in the fifties, And to be honest, I was
a labor voter. Yeah. I was a labor voted my
whole life. But you guys, I switched to you guys
last year because the past government had no vision. Thank you,
and I believe you have. And I want to talk
to you about energy security. With all the rising engines
in the world and what's what's going on at the moment,
(09:28):
would it not make sense for New Zealand to start
using our own oil and gas and build a refinery
to do so for our own security?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, look, great question, and bang on. I mean, what
you've seen in the world is everyone used to sort
of get the lowest cost globally sourced product and ship
it anywhere around the world. COVID showed us that all
the conflicts have shown us actually we need to be
much more resilient and much more energy and dependent and
secure here at home. My frustration was that you came
out with a bumper stick under the last lot, say
(09:59):
let's end the oil and gas ban, and then we
went through last winter and actually we couldn't. We struggled
to keep the lights on at really decent cost for
people and actually ended up hurting quite a lot of businesses.
So we have abundant natural resources. There's two things we
got to do. One is we've got to increase the
amount of renewable energy we have because we've got lots
of data center is going to consume a lot of electricity.
But we need oil and gas in New Zealand. We
need gas in particular, So what are you going to
(10:20):
do about it? Well, that's why we're ending the oil
and Gas band. We're actually opening up to see what
we can do around getting more domestic production by the
three what are called upstream gas providers and making sure
that we get the incentives and the regulatory settings right
because they have to take on quite a big risk
to go off and invest and try and find gas
which we think we've got in New Zealand, but actually
(10:41):
get it into the system. I think we also should
open up to them even importing gas in the short term.
But the question that Philip's asking about the refinery, that
is also something up for review as well, because that
got shut and moth balled and closed down. I don't well,
there's well, that's that's something we want to look at.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
The pipes.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Well, there might well be, but and I have bloays
of the view that they wasn't just moth board. It
was actually sort of broken out and stopped and it
should never have happened, to be honest, because we need
a strategic piece of asset. Well, we're going to go
look at that. That's something we're going to look at.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
You're looking at a lot of things, Prime Minister. No, no,
but break Prime Minister. Christopher Luxeon is in the studio
taking your questions and we'll go straight to them. Jeff,
good morning to you.
Speaker 6 (11:29):
Yes, good morning, Prime Minister, Thank you for taking my call.
My question, my question is around the healthcare system. I
understand we have cost containment. I totally grasp that concept
and the employment freeze that we have across the public.
My issue is that our staffing levels and our hospital
(11:50):
are critically low. We have had a whole bunch of
nurses qualify this year, but there are no jobs available
for them. We have a need, but to my mind,
we should be boosting such things as healthcare that are
un staffed when we have the capacity to do so,
and it shouldn't just be driven point dollar.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
So, yeah, Jeff, well said, really well said, and I
appreciate you asking the question because there's a lot of
narrative out there that we're actually cutting health and that's
just not true. We've actually tipped we spend about thirty
billion dollars a year on health. We're tipping in another
seventeen billion. We're the government's spending more on health than
we've ever spent. But you are right, there is a
really complex and bureaucratic system called Health New Zealand and
(12:32):
that is not functioning right. There is an awful lot
of management and back office functions, and what we're wanting
to do is make sure that's a really efficient organization
that actually gets the resources out to the nurses, out
to the doctors, out to the front line to actually
improve the outcomes for New Zealanders. So you can put
more money in. And it's not just a money problem,
because we have actually literally put seventeen billion dollars more
in the next three years, the most any government has
(12:54):
actually done. We actually have hired three thousand more nurses
over the last twelve months or year, and that's been great.
But the issue is exactly your point, which is that
we've now got actual of nurses coming through the system
and actually we haven't got places for them always in
the hospital system, but we desperately need them in primary care.
We need them in age care as well, and I
think there's a real opportunity to think about how we
(13:16):
use our nurses, particularly what we call nurse practitioners or
nurse prescribers that can increasingly do more of the work
of what a GP does, because today it could take
you up to two weeks to get an appointment with
a GP, and yet you know, often I might get
a sinus in fiction, I might just want to talk
to a nurse at eleven thirty on a Friday when
I'm freed up and I just want the exithromisin to come't,
(13:39):
you know, as antybotic to be given to me, And well,
she can do that task. And actually I don't need
to book a GP appointment nine to five to be
able to get in and actually clog up an appointment
around that, I think there are things that we could
be doing to make regular prescriptions be extended for longer periods.
So again, you're not in front of a GP doing
those sorts of things. But I just say to you,
we have put a lot of money in and my
(14:00):
frustration is the bureaucracy in healthcare system is incredibly complex
and just a mess. And you are right, the nurses
and the doctors on the frontline are doing a great job,
and actually I want the resources not sitting in the
management team sort of mucking around, you know, reorganizing the system.
I want that money coming out of the back office
into the frontline to those nurses. We have a lot
(14:22):
of nurses. You're right, we should be thinking about how
we use them and actually invest in them to actually
deliver better healthcare. And they can do a lot more
for us in primary care, age care as well as
in the hospital system.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Thank you very much. Prime Minister Christopher Luxen is in
the studio. You're just saying how many layers of management
are there.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
For Yeah, there's from the Chair of Health New Zealand
right through to the patient. There's about twelve to fourteen
layers of management. And that's what and that's what Jeff
was alluding to, is that, yeah, we've got awesome doctors
and nurses, and every keyw you talk to says that
when they've had to use the services, they've just been
well looked after by amazing people.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Who were on the floor.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
But that's my frustration is like, we put a lot
of money in, and we're going to continue to put
money in, but I expect a high performing organization because
that money then gets lost and all that bureaucracy, and
it never gets.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
The front sine going through all those layers.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Well, I mean, I totally get you.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Need people to manage so that the doctors and nurses
contrition they do, and the front line staff. How can
you justify fourteen layers?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
But I think if you're at the front line as
a nurse or a doctor dealing with the healthcare system,
the system has let you down badly, even though you're
doing a kick ass, brilliant job and the patients really
appreciate what you do. But you know, we have to
be real. You can't increase the number of people and
the money and then actually have worse outcomes. The amount
of time people are waiting in emergency departments in part
because they can't get the GP access. Right, Let's not
(15:41):
just focus on the hospitals. Think about the primary care
so that.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Retty talks about, isn't it right from primary care through
to this it's a continuum post hospital care and home care.
It needs to be seamless.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Yeah, so watch this space because you know, Simmy and
Brown's are my fixed guy, and that's what he's there
to do. And I'm telling you, you know, when you've
got your urgent care and you can't get to a GP.
What do you do You go to an emergency department. Well,
then you didn't need to be there. You could have
treated outside that system, which then would have meant that
we could get to the people that we really need
to get to an emergency care. So it's incredibly frustrating.
(16:12):
You're probably sensing my frustration about it as well is
that it's not just a money problem. And we've put
we saved all that money last year in the last
year's budget and we put it into those frontline services.
But we've got a lot of work to do there.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, yeah, you're frustrated. We're frustrated.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Well, I'm not frustrated. I mean, like, I'm just I
got my job as I am shocking that system down
in Wellington to say I expect you to work in
different ways. When we have a problem like our kids
not doing maths properly, within a week, we can make
a decision to actually change the curriculum. This year, the
New Zealand people have their kids being taught a maths
program that teaches in the Times table. It's more like Singapore.
Australian mathematics and that's going to set them up for
(16:48):
a much better success.
Speaker 6 (16:49):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Eleven eleven and twenty one, Kirie, good morning to you.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
Good morning, hey, Chris. The last the last labor lost
because of the fact that they chucked the money at
everything and they made promises that they couldn't keep. And
you guys have said a lot, and I think now
is the time people are sick and tired of people talking, talking, talking,
(17:20):
It's time to do crime. Yesterday Kerrie spoke of some
horrific cases where people should be locked up and yet
they're giving getting things that is absolulutely ridiculous. What are
you going to do and when is it going to
be done? And when is it going to be fixed?
When these judges who are not doing their job properly
(17:42):
are going to be either dropped or spoken to and
told that's not acceptable.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
So what we're doing carry on the sentencing as a
good point that you raise that the judges have been
able to what's called discount sentences, often up to eighty
five percent from what people should be getting. So you
do a serious crime, you don't actually get the penalty
that should go with that crime. So we've actually introduced
to the Parliament a set of laws that actually is
going to limit to the ability the judges to do that,
(18:07):
because if someone's genuinely going to admit that they are guilty,
that will speed up our court care system. So there
needs to be some sort of discount for actually getting
guilty pledges out quickly so that we actually don't have
it clogging up our court system. We can get to
other cases that we need to get to. But equally,
you can't have people coming forward and saying I'm very
very sorry three times right and actually getting a discount
for that. That's unacceptable. And actually you can talk about
(18:29):
people's backgrounds and conditions and all that sort of stuff
to a point, but it's not relevant. I mean, at
the end of the day, you've committed the crime. You
need to do the time. So we're limiting the judges
what they can discount. We're putting a flaw into place
to say, look, there will be reasons for when someone
pleads guilty, and that's good for us. We want to
encourage people to do that so we don't muck around
and waste fees if they are guilty to do that.
(18:50):
And that legislation is going through the Parliament right now.
I just say to you, Carrie on law and Order,
I actually think the key ways I talk to are
feeling safer. And the reason is that you and I
would have talked about coming on the show. Ram raids
every fricking day in New Zealand was basically going off
before the election. RAM raids are down sixty eight percent.
We've actually got our police out on the beat and
(19:11):
people are seeing it. We've got and it's true, we've
actually had a thirty percent increase in the police on
their foot patrols. It's still more to do. We've smashed
the gangs. I mean we're really ripping into gangs because
they're driving so much of the violent crime and the
retail crime is about the police being visible and RAM
rates been going away. And now the third bit we've
got to get away, as you says, the sentencing bit,
and that law has been introduced by Paul Goldsmith into Parliament.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Prime Minister Christopher lexelan studio taking your calls. Lisa, A
very good morning to you. You're a primary school principal.
Speaker 7 (19:42):
He's good morning, curious Lisa, Hell, how are you very
very well?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Thank you? Hey, Lisa, how are you.
Speaker 7 (19:48):
Oh, good morning, Chris. Nice talk to you this morning.
I'm driving to the airport, heading for a meeting down
to Wellington. My question as a prince, and I've got
ninety years under my bout.
Speaker 8 (20:02):
Loving the job.
Speaker 7 (20:03):
But my concern that is around the about teachers, wondering
what doing to improve the training of our teachers, especially
when they've done three years to a degree and then
they come out they have one year to be in
the classroom, but are just not ready for this.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, okay, your phone's breaking up that I've got the
sense of what Lisa's saying.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Firstly, Lisa, thanks for what you're doing. It's an incredible job,
and I understand it quite well because Amanda, my wife,
was a primary school teacher for a long period of
time as well. Look, there's a couple of things going on,
you're right. I mean, we had forty percent of our
year four teachers saying they were unconfident to teach maths
to nine year olds in this country, and as a result,
they teach less maths and so they can often do
the degree. But what Lisa is really talking about is
(20:46):
how do we get them with classroom experience, which is
actually what the old teachers college system used to do
versus what the university system's doing. So there is a
lot that we have to do at the moment. We've obviously,
as you know, we're training. We've done half our primary
school teachers teaching them structured literacy. We're doing that in
situation while they're out there teaching and upgrading their skills now.
But another half have to get through this year. We've
(21:07):
put a whole bunch of resources into the primary school
teachers to sort of push it along really quickly to
get the math curriculum implemented this year, which was actually happening,
and we're trying to do get those resources out. We've
now said and the Teachers Counsel actually was very good
when we had those terrible maths results where eighty percent
of our kids are not where they need to be
on maths going into.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
High school ses. Terrible methage.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, but they've now come out. I thought it was
a very good move to say you've actually got to
have six four year twelve maths to go to become
a primary school teacher, which wasn't previously the requirement. So
no wonder our teachers aren't set up for success to
teach mathematics and mathematics we need to be able to
teach well so that we can do all the other
things we need to do. So we're putting resources into
the teachers as you would have seen on the mass
curriculum and nonstructured literacy, which is the one way we
(21:50):
want to.
Speaker 7 (21:50):
Teach all our custory.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Get more teachers in classroom time.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Well, that is a genuinely good question, which is do
we go back to what we had around teachers colleges
or do you find ways to get more section time
with primary school teachers out into the classrooms. It is
more section time, I think, is what teachers actually need
to be emerging teachers need to do. Because you can
be very brain smart at a university, think great at
writing an essay, but if you're not good with the
(22:15):
kids in the classroom, you're not learning from experienced teachers.
That's a problem.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Is section time the answer? Lisa? Do you think?
Speaker 7 (22:22):
Yeah, Well, I'm in the situation where I've taken on
a beginning teacher trained that way because it's really hard
to get teachers, and she's had fourteen weeks in a
year to prepare for the classroom. He doesn't know how
to administer the tea. He hasn't got the curriculum knowledge.
I was trained of being that. I trained in eighty
eight to ninety at Parmaceanots College of Education and we
(22:47):
still in three years didn't get enough to face the
rigular of what is happening.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
And I really.
Speaker 7 (22:56):
Admire, you know, the things that are coming in at
the moment, but when we know that our workforce are
really stretched Principalship. Before I got in my car to
come to go to Wellington, I've done three home visits
to try and find out where our somebody are, why.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
They're not well done.
Speaker 7 (23:14):
You the just it's just not But I don't have
enough time in the day. I'm covering the RT principal
release and I'm trying to manage all of that. And
the biggest thing is is we can't teach children if
they're not in class. But we also can't teach children
adequately if our teachers aren't trained. And I feel really
(23:35):
sorry for our beginning teachers because they are not set
up for success and that's why they leave after two
years because it's just.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Too hard and the practical and classroom skills are really
critical for their success. You can't just be BookSmart intellectual
about that. So that's well, that's that's that's the conversation
we've got to have about what do we do because
you can't. I mean, do you want to go back
to a three year teachers college kind of set up
or do you actually find a way to use the
system we've got because we can take years to do that.
(24:03):
It's going to take years to get that system back
and play again. But the questions, we don't have time.
So we're trying to sort of change the wheel while
we're driving the car by getting immediately resources into teachers.
But Lisa's just hit the nail on the head, hasn't she.
She's got a lot on her plate and she's in
now having to spend time doing the training that should
have been done before the teachers show up in the schools.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
And not everybody's going to have Lisa that's going to
look after them, ma.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
But I just have to say, in the first twelve
months and education, what are we trying to do? Lisa's right,
we've had forty five percent of our kids going to
school regularly. Most countries are eighty five percent. Then you've
had really abysmal reading schools. Half aren't ready to go
to high school at the level they need to be.
Eighty percent of the kids aren't were they need to
be on mass So we have said we've made some
conscious choices to say, we've got to focus on attendance.
We've got to focus on maths and structured literacy, which
(24:47):
is teaching our kids to read like we did with
phonics and all that good stuff. We've got to then continue.
We've tried to jerry get the resources in and we've
got to make sure that obviously we deal with the
teacher quality and training that we're going so they're set
up for more success.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
News Talk said, be so many questions from so many
great questions. There's some great questions. Hey, one thing that
really really jerks my leash is Destiny Church hate speech, bullying, assault.
What's the government approach to this gang? Could you please
assess their charity status and recommend ID audit their activities
and could they please have their patches removed?
Speaker 7 (25:21):
That?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah, utterly unacceptable. A. I mean, we want to have
free speech in New Zealand. We want people to be
able to protest. They should be able to do that peacefully.
And respectfully, but what we saw on the weekend, the
intimidation of council staff in a public facility utterly unacceptable.
So I know there's a police investigation going on around that,
which is exactly where it should sit, because you know
that is a problem. And also you know the yeah,
(25:44):
the charities are registration and whether the people are routing
the system as something that we and Nicola willis and
I've spoken about even again yesterday. So watch the budget.
That's when we get all our financial stuff sort of
sorted around taxation and around all those sorts of charity status,
all that sort of stuff. We'll look into it.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, And didn't budgets to individual organizations get named as
not being charities anymore?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Well, I mean it's just you know, there's a whole
bunch of different organizations that might set up different structures
to present as a charity but actually aren't doing charitable work. No,
And so that's the stuff that we are very hot
on that we've got to say there are genuine charities
doing great work and that they should be protected and
gave some benefit around that. But there are other bits
(26:26):
that we've got to say no, actually, sorry, you're not
meeting that criteria.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
It's things like the you know, David Seymoll's bill that
create this kind of division and descent and them and
us and embolden. We don't want that classes like Destiny
Church to do what they do.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
It's very easy. And I mean, this is a conversation
I have with many other world leaders, like the everyone
is grumpy, right, everyone is anxious. We're living in an
age of massive disruption and people are feeling it and
they're frustrated, and you're seeing it with much shorter political cycles.
But we have a choice in New Zealand. You know,
do we want to go down the road that we've
seen in Western Europe and North America. We get very polarized,
(27:02):
and we go to our corners and we hang out
with the same people have the same views, and we're
in our own echo chambers on all sides of any debate.
Or do we actually choose to actually work together and
try and bind away and find a way forward together
because we're seeing what's happened in global politics and everywhere,
and we're seeing it here as well, and there's rising
level of tension and frustration. And I get that, but one,
(27:24):
you know, you can't. Everyone on each side is adamant
that they are right and the other side's wrong. And unless,
as my mum used to say to me as a
little boy, you've got to walk across the room, find
someone different from you and actually have an engaged debate
that isn't personal with all the invective that goes with that,
and actually debate the issue, not the individual. And that
is about us collectively as leaders, actually modeling that out.
(27:45):
And that's why I keep saying I ask all political
leaders to watch their rhetoric. And actually, because it's easy
to go fire up a bunch of people and make
them angry. Anyone can do that Parliament there anyone can
do that.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Time wasted on petty points scoring like artat or New
Zealand and you.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Know, yeah, well we're telling you the New Zealand people
want this government and their political leaders focused on the
issues that matter to them. And that is why I
keep saying growth, growth, growth this year, that's what's going
to help. Okay, in order, Okay, there's two our questions.
Oh goodness, I'm going to try and rip through as
million as I can.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Hi Jake.
Speaker 8 (28:17):
Higman, Kerry Goome on Prime Minister Jake right AARKI this
very brief.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
I like to hassle.
Speaker 8 (28:22):
I mean when I like the hastle of Chris Bishop
a lot, I'm not surely enjoys it. Anyway, This is
a this is an issue that will manage to all
New Zealand. Does I've seen my private home insurance go
from four hundred and thirty one dollars a month to
eight hundred and eighty months in three years. They've aa
of insurance have increased at one hundred percent, and then
council rates have gone up about thirty or forty percent
in the last few years too. And on the current trajectory,
(28:46):
for example, an eight thousand dollar rates spell and at
ten percent of a year with the council lower had
cancel will go from eight thousand and sixteen thousand a
year and my insurance will increase to twenty three thousand
a year and five years on the current trajectory, I mean,
I see, I just see the funding model for cancils
broken and private home insurance being unaffordable. I mean, interest
rates coming down this great, but it costs on the
(29:07):
other side of things that just going skyrocketing. And it's
just it's unaffordable for everyone.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah, yeah, I mean Jake's raising some very good points.
There's two issues on the council side. Actually, councils how
they organize their funding and financing is actually really important
and we haven't adopted without going into it, like when
I look at the investment that councils need to make
around water assets, for example, they need to be able
to fund and finance those with long term debt, and
(29:32):
they just haven't done the financial management of it very well.
You saw that here in Auckland their proposal for a
twenty six percent rate rise. We've DoD a deal with
the mire and got water care sorted and the rates
came down to seven percent. And Wellington where Jakers it's
actually crazy the o the water assets aren't well managed
and as a result council just keep getting money out
of short term reserves rather than getting the funding and financing.
(29:52):
So there's a lot that we can do there. I
also think councils actually are wasting a hell of a
lot of money on things that actually aren't that important.
They've got to be the mustos rather than the nice
to dos. And it's all very well in Wellington having
a lovely convention center that's losing money. But actually when
you're not fixed your pipes, that's a problem. So there's
some things around what's called the funding and financing and
how we do what's called saying, and we have done,
(30:13):
and we're also publishing schoolcards now on councils so that
we're actually really clear to the rate payers about what
they are and getting versus other councils performances. And you know,
we've talked even about rate caps for example, to force
the councils to make tougher decisions like families have had to,
business have had to, and even central government we're having
to as well. So there's an issue around councils. And
(30:33):
then there is an issue as Jake said about is
there a different mechanism by which we actually let you
know they can raise revenue as well. But I want
well run councils that are managing the costs and the
budgets well, and often there's not enough financial literacy in
the councils to do that job well. On the second
point which Jake's raising around insurance New Zealand, when you
are a global insurer, they've looked at the events over
(30:54):
the last few years, and I think we are the
second sort of natural hazard event country that's actually driven
as creating higher risk. You know, if you think about
the weather events that we've had and think about the
earthquake that we've had as a result, that's what's driving
a lot of that. They see INSI as higher risk
and they say it's not much and there's a result
they take the premiums up and in somebody's you know
that we don't want them to withdraw any insurance from
(31:16):
New Zealand, which is what the alternative could be.
Speaker 7 (31:18):
Now.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Having said that, what we have to deal with in
New Zealand is climate adaptation, and that means that property
owners and local government and central government and banks and
insurers need to think about how we manage the risk
around some of our property where we're really exposed and
some of our towns across the country. So there is
a real issue that New Zealand is a risk profile
for these global insurers as much higher given the recent
(31:40):
events the last decade or so.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
So there's not much we can do.
Speaker 7 (31:43):
Well.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
We can't go capping insurance because the insuran is the
easiest thing for them to do globally, is actually just
withdraw from New Zealand and we don't have any insurance
options and we don't want that, but the government has
to do a better job of managing the risk that
sits there around some of these climate events and the
damage it causes to some of our towns and properties.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Oh man, we did another hour because I've got Kubiu
top of.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Theve Well, that's exactly, that's a good case in point.
And so were built where they shouldn't be how we're built.
So you've got responsibility. And this is not going to
be solved in one generation. It's going to be multiple generations,
and it's going to be multiple governments. And that's why
again I need to buy partisan approach to how we're
going to deal with that issue.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
We if you're talking bipartisan, start with we need, Yeah, we.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Need that's what That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
We do need that.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
You know, it's New Zealand Inc. We need to think
about how we're going to deal with that so we
can get the risk down and manage the risk.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
News Talk said, b that's it. Gosh, it goes quick.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
We do need another hour, really, we do need because
it's actually love it well, I actually really do because
I love this format because actually so much of my
life is dealing with the press gallery in Wellington and
it's a three to six second grab on the six
o'clock news, and from that people form our impression of
what and issue. You need to get into these issues
and unpack them more because I think New Zealanders really
(32:53):
do actually want to understand what is the reality of
where we are and more and portantly, what's the plan
and how are we going to get it out out
of where we are? And so I really do appreciate
the opportunity and I'd papily go for longer because actually
there's some really good you know that last question around
insurance and rates. There's a whole bunch of thinking behind
that that actually, and backstory and backstory and context that
people need to understand and partners. Yeah, there's human stories.
(33:15):
But the important thing is, you know, the issues often
can look really simple from the outside, but there's often
complexity in there that you're trying to work your way through.
It was simple, it would have been solved, and we
don't want to hear.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
About complex and difficulty. As an electorate. We want you
to do a Trump and just sign executive orders, and.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
A presidential system with executive orders would be very fascinating.
But we have an m MP parliamentary system in New
Zealand and that's the system the New Zealand people have
selected multiple times and my job is to make it
work as best as I possibly can, to focus on
getting the system to limpy.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Is it harder than you like? Because you're into it now,
you're right down in your overalls, covered in oil and
crap from the Syria, trying to get the infrastructure of
the country fixed and up and working for everybody. Is
it harder than you thought? And it you're asked off
that you're not getting more gratitude.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
No, I don't care, because you know, I came to
politics four years ago because I love the country. I
lived overseas for sixteen years. I think it's got tremendous
potential and I think we're going down the wrong road.
So I've come there saying I don't want to get
to ninety years old looking back, saying maybe there was
something I could have done or offered or helped with.
So now I'm loving the job. I'm really you know,
I'm into the issues because the hard issues to sort through.
(34:28):
But they need to be dealt with because I think
we have a fantastic future and we've just got to
get through the pain and get to the other side
and get some tough decisions and things sorted. How much
these these things have all accumulated, The things we've talked
about today have accumulated over many years, right, but how
much more pain?
Speaker 6 (34:44):
Well?
Speaker 3 (34:44):
I think we're seeing signs of improvement, right, we really are,
and we can get to the other side. You're seeing
you know, inflation down, interest rates coming down, growth going up.
That's good, but we've got a bigger opportunity to be
how do we do more?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Prime is still lovely to see you, good toake.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
news Talks. It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Oh
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