March 24, 2025 • 9 mins
The Government's scrapping the Resource Management Act and replacing it with new planning laws.
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop says current rules make it too hard to build the infrastructure and houses New Zealand desperately needs.
He says Cabinet's agreed on a blueprint for reform, which will standardise zoning and remove differences for each local council – aiming to implement it before councils start their 2027 long-term plans.
He claims the replacement RMA will cut admin and compliance costs by 45 percent.
Mt Hobson Group Director Hamish Firth told Kerre Woodham he’s expecting a much more liberal planning system – one that presumes land use will be permitted unless it significantly affects other people's property rights.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talks hed b As.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We've been discussing the government's moving to replace the ROMA
with a new planning framework, including new acts around development
of land and on protection of the natural environment. ROMA
reform Minister Chris Bishop says building and expanding will become
much smoother. There'll be fewer plans, fewer resource consents and
a much simplest system. Cabinets hoping to pass it before
(00:33):
the next election and wants it in place for a
council's start twenty twenty seven long term plans. Mount Hobson
Group is a specialist urban planning and resource management consultancy
who managed the consent process for the James Kirkpatrick Group
cutting a Huppy Road building which was denied consent. Director
Hamish Firth joins me, now, good morning to.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
You, morning Carie.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I got a text just after I started the show saying, Carrie,
please listen to the Sunday interview on Pete wolf Camp's
show with the planning planner regarding the k Road building. Bloody,
shameful the whole process and so here you are.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, look, it's probably as much shameful as it is sad.
You know. I read the Sunday Star Times. I read
Wayne Brown's comments calling the decision mad, bizarre and foolish.
I read Chris Bishop, Minister Bishop, saying that the decision
was indefensible and nuts and it made him even more
determined to ensure the rima stop stop such nonsense. So
(01:33):
maybe this application has become a poster child for why
we need that reform. You have a building that is
eleven stories high, five hundred meters from a five billion
dollar new train station, which fits well into its environment,
and the new proposed plan chain seventy eight, and yet
we couldn't get it past the line.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So why was that and how would the changes mean
that it would get past the line.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Well, I listened this morning to my costing and I
heard Jeanette Campbell talk about the fact that this building
probably wouldn't need a consent. We're of the view there's
no problems that it may need a consent, but what
we probably need from offices, and this was one of
your callers before, is that I get the sense, as
time has gone on that they actually lack practical experience
(02:22):
and they turn up to the table with an inbuilt prejudice.
And look, if it wasn't for James Kirkpatrick Group, who
are long term investors, they bought this building, James Kirkpatrick
Senior bought this building in nineteen eighty seven. If it
wasn't the fact that they were so well capitalized, they
would have gone broke by now. So if you were young,
(02:43):
if you were fresh, if you wanted to make things
happen and do things differently, the rules don't allow it.
The bureaucracy holds you back. So I think what's going
to happen is that you're going to have a more
liberal planning system which presumes land use is going to
be permitted unless it significantly affects other people's property rights.
(03:05):
So I think there's some real positives there. At the
same time, we must look at protecting the environment, and
I think that's why you've got with this reform two acts,
one being a Planning Act and the other being a
Natural Environment Act. But we've got to get rid of
the status quo.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, I find it hard to believe or hard to
see how it could be, how it could have been
seen as a blight on the Karangahappy Road landscape. I
mean sure, in the eighties there was devastation done to
the city scapes around the country and these monstrosities were
put up in their place. But this is a green
six green star building purely timber, you know, in an
(03:46):
area where there are office buildings and hotels.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Not only not only did it tick the boxes in
its form, but the investor went out of their way
to pick one of New Zealand's renowned architects Fair and
hay Yeap, who combined with all of their global experience,
brought to this site. This union excite something that is
going to be a landmark building and it'll also set
(04:09):
the scene for regeneration for this area. If I can
paint a picture for your listeners who may not live
in the area. Across the road is an enormous mobile
petrol station with a large forecourt. Behind that is a
eleven meter high water care reservoir. Beside us is a
vacant car park where Wilson's ply their trade amongst other people.
(04:33):
And then beside that again is an old building which
is shrouded with a metal a decorative metal panel. The
whole precinct or area is as far from heritage as
could be imagined, and yet we've been told that unless
it is a replica of buildings further down K Road,
(04:54):
we won't be getting past go. The other thing that's
really important for me here carry is that there seems
to be a voice of Unison that this building, this
project should have been improved for a number of reasons,
from Chloe Swarbrook, who came out yesterday in support of
it with her offices on K Road, through to Chris Bishop.
So you've got a spectrum of people who have said
(05:16):
this is madness. So and that's why we need change.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Were you surprised that it was turned up?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
If I'm being really honest with you, Kerrie, No, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Knew you'd say that. I bet that you knew this
was a good plan. You knew it tacked all the boxes.
You knew that the developer had gone over and above,
and yet when you got the know you were like, huh, well, yep,
there we.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Go, Kerry. We've probably complained to ourselves, cried ourselves to
sleep for many, many years about the problems with the REMA.
The moment you turn up, you're fighting against what I
call the power of the bureaucracy, and it's very difficult
to beat. So if they say they don't like it,
you have to overcome their prejudices and their subjective opinions
(06:05):
to get anything done, and we would do that on
a daily basis. You made comment that there are eleven
hundred and seventy five different zones currently in New Zealand.
In Japan, which uses standardized zones, there are thirteen. Now
standardization has to work for all of us. In Wanganui
it might be six hundred squaimeters. For a site in
(06:26):
Napier it might be five hundred who determined that, And
I would suggest to you that there were to be
no logical rhyme or reason. So the more standardization we
can have, the more familiarity we can have across regions,
the better it has to be. And you made a
comment before about a farmer building a dam and a stream,
and you know the pitfalls yet to go through. What
(06:47):
I'm hoping now is that we set sizes that dams
can be built at a permitted activity level. They may
not be in the stream, but they may be ten
or twenty meters beside the stream and they might flow
back into the stream. So we make sure that a
dam is permitted we put some environmental protections around it.
And I think what's also happening with this change is Kerry,
(07:09):
which I think is very very important, is that there's
going to be a stronger enforcement regime. So we're going
to let the rope out, but we're going to hang
you if you decide to break it. And I think
that's really really important. So we're going to give the
benefit of doubt to the people to get on and
observe their property rights, but woebertide you if you decide
to get in the way of the environment. So I
(07:32):
think they've struck the right balance. They want to have
this in They want to have the legislation before the
House before the end of the year. They want to
have this approved before the end of the parliamentary term.
I'm hoping that they get cross party support. I'm hoping
that many people can make submissions on this process to
ensure that we get a document that's fit for purpose.
(07:56):
If we have a look around Kerrie, the harbor bridge
would never have been built. In Auckland's War Memorial Museum
would never have been built. I doubt the skytowel would
even pass Mustard. I almost get to see it's that
when you turn up to counsel, there's a presumption that
you're begging for an approval rather than helping grow the economy.
Whether it's whether it's large scale, whether it's mining, whether
(08:16):
it's large scale dairy, whether it's a large scale win
from right down to somebody's garage where they just want
to park their car. We need to have a presumption
that these things are going to be okay and everything's
going to work out.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
All right, fantastic. So you are appealing the decision, I mean,
with Chlos or Brick on board, for the love of
all that's holy, they must be able to turn it,
you know, turn over that decision and give your permission
to press go.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
We have appealed this to the Environment Court. Yep. We
have mediation back with the same people who decline the
decision in June. It'll be very interesting to see how
this is handled. I do hope that everyone turns up
with an open mind. We have, we have an open mind.
We want to we want to get this approved, we
(09:03):
want to get this built. This hewps gentrify change the area,
bring the area back to life. It also gives effect
to the craung A happy station. Why was the CRL
built if it wasn't for developments like this? Exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
God, I wish you luck, I really do. You've got
the patience of job.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah. Our clients have Irish heritage and I'm surprised they
haven't raised arms yet.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Well, I mean they know how to endure the Irish
is that and there's stubborn here.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
So Kerrie, when we win, we'll come back on the show.
We'll celebrate with a Glassish champagne.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Absolutely, Hamish, thank you so much. Hamish Fith, director of
the Mount Hobson Group behind the James Kirkpatrick Group, cuing
happy road building which does look lovely and if you
know that area of town, it'll look absolutely fine. Amazing.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
news Talks. It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News
Talks hed b As.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We've been discussing the government's moving to replace the ROMA
with a new planning framework, including new acts around development
of land and on protection of the natural environment. ROMA
reform Minister Chris Bishop says building and expanding will become
much smoother. There'll be fewer plans, fewer resource consents and
a much simplest system. Cabinets hoping to pass it before
(00:33):
the next election and wants it in place for a
council's start twenty twenty seven long term plans. Mount Hobson
Group is a specialist urban planning and resource management consultancy
who managed the consent process for the James Kirkpatrick Group
cutting a Huppy Road building which was denied consent. Director
Hamish Firth joins me, now, good morning to.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
You, morning Carie.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I got a text just after I started the show saying, Carrie,
please listen to the Sunday interview on Pete wolf Camp's
show with the planning planner regarding the k Road building. Bloody,
shameful the whole process and so here you are.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, look, it's probably as much shameful as it is sad.
You know. I read the Sunday Star Times. I read
Wayne Brown's comments calling the decision mad, bizarre and foolish.
I read Chris Bishop, Minister Bishop, saying that the decision
was indefensible and nuts and it made him even more
determined to ensure the rima stop stop such nonsense. So
(01:33):
maybe this application has become a poster child for why
we need that reform. You have a building that is
eleven stories high, five hundred meters from a five billion
dollar new train station, which fits well into its environment,
and the new proposed plan chain seventy eight, and yet
we couldn't get it past the line.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So why was that and how would the changes mean
that it would get past the line.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Well, I listened this morning to my costing and I
heard Jeanette Campbell talk about the fact that this building
probably wouldn't need a consent. We're of the view there's
no problems that it may need a consent, but what
we probably need from offices, and this was one of
your callers before, is that I get the sense, as
time has gone on that they actually lack practical experience
(02:22):
and they turn up to the table with an inbuilt prejudice.
And look, if it wasn't for James Kirkpatrick Group, who
are long term investors, they bought this building, James Kirkpatrick
Senior bought this building in nineteen eighty seven. If it
wasn't the fact that they were so well capitalized, they
would have gone broke by now. So if you were young,
(02:43):
if you were fresh, if you wanted to make things
happen and do things differently, the rules don't allow it.
The bureaucracy holds you back. So I think what's going
to happen is that you're going to have a more
liberal planning system which presumes land use is going to
be permitted unless it significantly affects other people's property rights.
(03:05):
So I think there's some real positives there. At the
same time, we must look at protecting the environment, and
I think that's why you've got with this reform two acts,
one being a Planning Act and the other being a
Natural Environment Act. But we've got to get rid of
the status quo.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, I find it hard to believe or hard to
see how it could be, how it could have been
seen as a blight on the Karangahappy Road landscape. I
mean sure, in the eighties there was devastation done to
the city scapes around the country and these monstrosities were
put up in their place. But this is a green
six green star building purely timber, you know, in an
(03:46):
area where there are office buildings and hotels.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Not only not only did it tick the boxes in
its form, but the investor went out of their way
to pick one of New Zealand's renowned architects Fair and
hay Yeap, who combined with all of their global experience,
brought to this site. This union excite something that is
going to be a landmark building and it'll also set
(04:09):
the scene for regeneration for this area. If I can
paint a picture for your listeners who may not live
in the area. Across the road is an enormous mobile
petrol station with a large forecourt. Behind that is a
eleven meter high water care reservoir. Beside us is a
vacant car park where Wilson's ply their trade amongst other people.
(04:33):
And then beside that again is an old building which
is shrouded with a metal a decorative metal panel. The
whole precinct or area is as far from heritage as
could be imagined, and yet we've been told that unless
it is a replica of buildings further down K Road,
(04:54):
we won't be getting past go. The other thing that's
really important for me here carry is that there seems
to be a voice of Unison that this building, this
project should have been improved for a number of reasons,
from Chloe Swarbrook, who came out yesterday in support of
it with her offices on K Road, through to Chris Bishop.
So you've got a spectrum of people who have said
(05:16):
this is madness. So and that's why we need change.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Were you surprised that it was turned up?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
If I'm being really honest with you, Kerrie, No, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Knew you'd say that. I bet that you knew this
was a good plan. You knew it tacked all the boxes.
You knew that the developer had gone over and above,
and yet when you got the know you were like, huh, well, yep,
there we.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Go, Kerry. We've probably complained to ourselves, cried ourselves to
sleep for many, many years about the problems with the REMA.
The moment you turn up, you're fighting against what I
call the power of the bureaucracy, and it's very difficult
to beat. So if they say they don't like it,
you have to overcome their prejudices and their subjective opinions
(06:05):
to get anything done, and we would do that on
a daily basis. You made comment that there are eleven
hundred and seventy five different zones currently in New Zealand.
In Japan, which uses standardized zones, there are thirteen. Now
standardization has to work for all of us. In Wanganui
it might be six hundred squaimeters. For a site in
(06:26):
Napier it might be five hundred who determined that, And
I would suggest to you that there were to be
no logical rhyme or reason. So the more standardization we
can have, the more familiarity we can have across regions,
the better it has to be. And you made a
comment before about a farmer building a dam and a stream,
and you know the pitfalls yet to go through. What
(06:47):
I'm hoping now is that we set sizes that dams
can be built at a permitted activity level. They may
not be in the stream, but they may be ten
or twenty meters beside the stream and they might flow
back into the stream. So we make sure that a
dam is permitted we put some environmental protections around it.
And I think what's also happening with this change is Kerry,
(07:09):
which I think is very very important, is that there's
going to be a stronger enforcement regime. So we're going
to let the rope out, but we're going to hang
you if you decide to break it. And I think
that's really really important. So we're going to give the
benefit of doubt to the people to get on and
observe their property rights, but woebertide you if you decide
to get in the way of the environment. So I
(07:32):
think they've struck the right balance. They want to have
this in They want to have the legislation before the
House before the end of the year. They want to
have this approved before the end of the parliamentary term.
I'm hoping that they get cross party support. I'm hoping
that many people can make submissions on this process to
ensure that we get a document that's fit for purpose.
(07:56):
If we have a look around Kerrie, the harbor bridge
would never have been built. In Auckland's War Memorial Museum
would never have been built. I doubt the skytowel would
even pass Mustard. I almost get to see it's that
when you turn up to counsel, there's a presumption that
you're begging for an approval rather than helping grow the economy.
Whether it's whether it's large scale, whether it's mining, whether
(08:16):
it's large scale dairy, whether it's a large scale win
from right down to somebody's garage where they just want
to park their car. We need to have a presumption
that these things are going to be okay and everything's
going to work out.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
All right, fantastic. So you are appealing the decision, I mean,
with Chlos or Brick on board, for the love of
all that's holy, they must be able to turn it,
you know, turn over that decision and give your permission
to press go.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
We have appealed this to the Environment Court. Yep. We
have mediation back with the same people who decline the
decision in June. It'll be very interesting to see how
this is handled. I do hope that everyone turns up
with an open mind. We have, we have an open mind.
We want to we want to get this approved, we
(09:03):
want to get this built. This hewps gentrify change the area,
bring the area back to life. It also gives effect
to the craung A happy station. Why was the CRL
built if it wasn't for developments like this? Exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
God, I wish you luck, I really do. You've got
the patience of job.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah. Our clients have Irish heritage and I'm surprised they
haven't raised arms yet.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Well, I mean they know how to endure the Irish
is that and there's stubborn here.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
So Kerrie, when we win, we'll come back on the show.
We'll celebrate with a Glassish champagne.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Absolutely, Hamish, thank you so much. Hamish Fith, director of
the Mount Hobson Group behind the James Kirkpatrick Group, cuing
happy road building which does look lovely and if you
know that area of town, it'll look absolutely fine. Amazing.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
news Talks. It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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