John MacDonald: Learning the hard way is the best way

I am —and always have been— a huge believer in on-the-job training. 

When I left school, I wanted to be a journalist. But I didn’t go to polytech or university, I went and did a newspaper cadetship at the Otago Daily Times, in Dunedin. 1986 this was.  

And, even though day one was horrific, it was the best thing I could have done. Even though I turned up on day one thinking I was Christmas and went home that night feeling like Good Friday - despite that, I’m in no doubt that learning on-the-job was absolutely THE BEST way. 

The best way for me then, and the best way for anyone now. 

Which is why I’m loving the talk we’re hearing today from the Civil Contractors Association and the Motor Trade Association - who are both saying that we need more on-the-job training, more apprenticeships, and less theoretical stuff in the classrooms and lecture rooms. 

Let’s start with the civil contractors. We’re hearing today that if the Government is going to have any hope in hell of delivering the big infrastructure projects it’s promising to deliver, then the number of extra civil engineering and construction workers that are going to be needed is the same as the number of people who live in Ashburton. 

So, percentage-wise, we need about 50% more people working in roading and civil construction. And the timeframe is pretty tight, with government officials saying it needs to happen within the next two-to-three years. 

So we’re in a bind. The Government —which is talking a big game on new roads and infrastructure— is in even more of a bind. 

You might have heard the civil construction guy talking to Mike Hosking a couple of hours ago about this. He was saying that it’s probably going to mean they have to bring-in more workers from overseas. 

But he also said that we need to be doing much more to train more of our own people. 

And that was when he said the magic words - apprenticeships and on-the-job training. 

Fraser May is his name - and he was saying to Mike that they want to see more money going into work-based training, because that’s the best way for people to learn the skills they need to build the roads and put water pipes under the ground. 

He said companies do on-the-job training under their steam, but he reckons the Government needs to come to the party and put apprenticeships and work-based training on more of a pedestal. 

And I couldn’t agree more. Call me old hat or old school, but there is no way someone who learns in a classroom can be as good as someone who learns on the job. So hallelujah for the civil constructors wanting to see more apprenticeships and less essay-writing. 

The other outfit extolling the virtues of apprenticeships and work-based learning today is the Motor Trade Association. In fact, it’s one of about 20 organisations involved in the automotive sector that want to see a return to new mechanics being taught on-the-job. 

Lee Marshall, who is the chief executive of the Motor Trade Association, was also on with Mike earlier. And he says that when it comes to training people to be mechanics and auto electricians, the education sector has done a hopeless job keeping up with the pace of changes in the likes of motor vehicle technologies.  

Which is meaning people are coming out of these polytech programmes not as work ready as they would be if they had learnt on the job doing something like an old-school apprenticeship. 

He says the technology we see in cars is changing at an exponential rate, and the education sector needs to keep up with that —or should have kept up with that— and it hasn’t. 

So these mot

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerry Wood of Mornings podcast from
News Talk. Said b.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I am and always have been a huge believer in
on the job training. You know, when I left school,
I wanted to be a journalist, but I didn't go
to polytech or university. What I is I went and
did a newspaper, Cadet Chip and this is at the
Target Daily Times in Dunedin nineteen eighty six April nineteen

(00:34):
eighty six. And even though day one was horrific, talk
about being brought down a peagle two, it was. Even
though it was horrific, it was the best thing I
could have done. Even though I turned up on day
one thinking I was Christmas and went home that night
feeling like Good Friday. Despite that, I'm in no doubt

(00:56):
that learning on the job was absolutely the best way,
best way for me then and the best way for
anyone now, which is why I am absolutely loving the
talk we're hearing today from the Civil Contractors Association and
the Motor Trade Association, who were both saying that we

(01:17):
need more on the job training, more apprenticeships, and less
of the theoretical stuff in the classrooms and the lecture rooms.
So let's start with the civil contractors. We're hearing today
that if the government's going to have any hope in
hell of delivering the big infrastructure projects it's promising to deliver,
then the number of extra civil engineering and construction workers

(01:38):
that are going to be needed is the same as
the number of people who live in Ashburton. So percentage twise,
what we need about fifty percent more people working in
roading and civil construction. And the timeframe's pretty tight, worth
government officials saying it needs to happen within the next
two to three years. So we're in a bit of
a bind. The government, which is talking big game on

(01:59):
new roads and infrastructure. It's even more of a bind,
isn't it. And you might have heard the civil construction
guy talking to Mike a couple of hours ago about this.
He was saying that it's probably going to mean they
have to bring in more workers from overseas. Same old,
same old. But he also said that we need to
be doing much more to train more of our own
people here and that was when he said the magic

(02:20):
words magic apprenticeships and on the job training. Fraser May
is his name, and he was saying to Mike that
they want to see more money going into work based
training because that's the best way for people to learn
the skills. They need to build the roads and put
water pipes under the ground. He said, you know, company,
the companies do on the job training under their own steam.

(02:40):
But he reckons the government needs to come to the
party and put apprenticeships and work based training on more
of a pedestal. And I could not agree more. I mean,
call me old school, call me old hat, whatever you want,
but there is no way this is what I think anyway.
There is no way someone who learns in a classroom
can be as good as someone who learns on the job.

(03:02):
So hallelujah for the civil constructors wanting to see more
apprenticeships and less essay writing. The other outfit extolling the
virtues of apprenticeships and work based learning today is the
Motor Trade Association. In fact, it's one of about twenty
organizations involved in the automotive sector that want to see
a return to new mechanics being taught on the job

(03:22):
and auto electricians or anyone who works in the auto industry.
So Lee Marshall is the chief executive of the Motor
Trade Association. He was also on with Mike earlier, and
he says that when it comes to training people to
be mechanics and auto electricians and those sorts of things,
the education sector has done a hopeless job keeping up
with the pace of change in the likes of motor

(03:45):
vehicle technologies, which meaning people are coming out of these
politic programs not as work ready as they would be
if they'd learned on the job doing something like an
old school apprenticeship. He says, the technology we see in
cars and this is not news, but he says the
technology and cars is changing at an expanial rate and

(04:06):
the education sector needs to keep up with that, or
put it more correctly, it should have kept up with that,
and it hasn't. So these motor industry organizations have written
a bag document and sent it through to the Ministry
of Education and the Tertiary Education Commission, telling them they've
dropped the ball. But not only that, they're also demanding
that the government takes training for the automotive motive industry

(04:27):
away from the politics and puts it back in the
hands of the automotive industry itself. And just like I
do with the civil contractors, I couldn't agree more with
the people in the automotive industry, because there is nothing
better than learning on the job. Nothing better, I know
from my experience on the job. Training keeps it real.

(04:51):
It knocks you down a pegle two if you need
to be knocked down a pegle two. Like I said earlier,
I thought it was the bee's needs when I left
school to become a Cadet newspaper reporter. I've been editor
of the school newspaper. I've been a debate. I knew
it all, and chances are if I had gone and
done a journalism course at a polytech or a university,

(05:13):
they would have allowed me just to keep on thinking
that I was Christmas. But I didn't go to University
of Polytech. I learned the hard way, which, as it
turned out to be, was the best way.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
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