Kerre Woodham: Who's hands should social housing be in?

Who on Earth would want Chris Bishop's job? The Minister for Housing has launched a new scheme designed to make it easier for community housing providers to provide social housing. The previous administration was all about the government, we're from the government, we're here to help – people within the industry have told me of a rather bunkered attitude towards housing provision. The attitude was no, the private developers can't do anything about the shortage of housing, they can't do anything about social housing, we the government will do it better because we, the government, have the most pure of motives, so we'll do it. Community housing providers they had a place for, but ultimately it was Kainga Ora who was going to solve the problem of affordable housing, in the mind of the previous government. It didn't work out like that.

Now Chris Bishop has said the government is looking to community housing providers to fill more of the gap, and they're going to help them by treating them on a level playing field with Kianga Ora when it comes to competing for funding to deliver social housing. They're not going to give them money, but they will allow them to compete on a level playing field when it comes to bidding to provide social housing. Chris Bishop says that unlike the last government, they’re agnostic as to whether it's the state or the community sector that delivers social housing.

At the moment, Kainga Ora provides some 72,000 public homes, which is the vast majority of the more than 80,000 public housing places offered by the government. Community housing providers, the Salvation Army and the like, receive government funding to provide a similar service in privately owned homes —so they're not owned by the state, they're owned by trusts or organisations— but they are only providing around 8000 homes for people.

We know that Kainga Ora is struggling. The Bill English report says it's basically not financially viable because under Labour, Kainga Ora became an urban development agency. It was a bold ambition, and if it had worked, it would have been amazing. If they'd been the money, if they'd been the governance, if they'd been, if if, if, if. It was a large-scale urban renewal project that mixed all kinds of housing, public and private, it was next to public transport, which was going to be built as well. It was going to be hoots wahay and amazing, incredible. But that didn't happen.

To be fair, Kainga Ora is also struggling because successive governments, including the John Key/Bill English government, underinvested in state housing. The lack of social housing and affordable housing was one of the hot issues of the 2017 election campaign and that helped get Labour into office. Housing is still a political hot potato, with this government struggling to wrangle Kainga Ora into financial shape and provide more housing for people who are really struggling to find a place to live. So Chris Bishop is hoping that by changing contracts for new housing supply, it's going to make it more attractive for investors and financiers to invest in community housing.

They are going to allow increased use of leasing to provide social houses where leasing delivers value for money – that could help deliver more social housing very quickly and would only be available for newly built homes that have not yet been occupied. And they would also capitalise part of the operating supplement currently paid to community housing providers for new housing developments, to be paid upfront when contracts for new social housing are agreed. So if your eyes are glazing over, it will mean that the money will be given to them up front rather than in various portions as the housing comes online.

Labour's Kieran McAnulty says Chris Bishop's all talk. He said it was hoped that there would have been government support for desperately needed public housing. And by support, I guess he means money - upfront money. Instead,

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carrywood of Mornings podcast from News
Talks d B.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Who on Earth would want Chris Bishop's job. The Minister
for Housing has launched a new scheme designed to make
it easier for community housing providers to provide social housing.
The previous administration was all about the government, where from
the government, we're here to help. People within the industry

(00:33):
have told me of a rather bunked attitude towards housing provision.
The attitude was no, their private developers can't do anything
about the shortage of housing. They can't do anything about
social housing. We the government will do it better because
we the government, have the most pure of motives, So no,

(00:54):
we'll do it. Community housing providers they had a place
for but ultimately it was kind or order who was
going to solve the problem of affordable housing. In the
mind of the previous government. It didn't work out like that.
Now Chris Bishop has said the government is looking to

(01:15):
community housing providers to fill more of the gap and
they're going to help them by treating them on a
level playing field with Kying or Order when it comes
to competing for funding to deliver social housing. So they're
not going to give them money, but they will allow

(01:35):
them to compete on a level playing field when it
comes to bidding to provide social housing. Chris Bishop says,
unlike the last government where agnostic as to whether it's
the state or the community sector that delivers social housing.
At the moment, Coying Order provides some seventy two thousand

(01:56):
public homes, which is the vast majority of the more
than eighty thousand public housing places offered by the government.
Community housing providers of the Salvation Army and the Lake
receive government funding to provide a similar service in privately

(02:17):
owned homes, so they're not owned by the state, they're
owned by trusts or organizations. But they are only providing
around eight thousand homes for people. We know that Coying
Order is struggling. The Bill English report says it's basically
not financially viable because under Labor Coying or Order became

(02:38):
an urban development agency. There was a bold ambition, you know,
and if it had worked, it would have been amazing
if there'd been the money, if there'd been the governance,
if they had been you know, it was a large
scale urban renewal project that mixed all kinds of housing
public and private. It was next to public transport which

(02:59):
was going to be built as well. It was going
to be hootswah and amazing, incredible, but that didn't happen
to be fair. Coying Or is also struggling because successive governments,
including the John Key Bill English government, underinvested in state housing.
The lack of social housing and affordable housing was one
of the hot issues of the twenty seventeen election campaign

(03:23):
and that helped get Labor into office, and housing is
still a political hot potato with this government struggling to
wrangle coying Or into financial shape and provide more housing
for people who are really struggling to find a place
to live. So Chris Bishop is hoping that by changing
contracts for new housing supply, it's going to make it

(03:44):
more attractive for investors in financiers to invest in community housing.
They're going to allow increased use of leasing to provide
social houses where leasing delivers value for money. That could
help deliver more social housing very quickly and would only

(04:05):
be available for newly built homes that have not yet
been occupied and capitalizing part of the operating supplement currently
paid to community housing providers. For new housing developments to
be paid upfront when contracts for social housing are agreed,
So if your eyes are glazing over, it will mean

(04:26):
that the money will be given to them upfront rather
than in various portions as the housing comes online. Labour's
Karen McNulty says, Chris Bishops will talk. He said it
was hoped that there would have been government support for
desperately needed public housing, and by support I guess he
means money upfront money. Instead there was no commitment to

(04:50):
build any more public homes, no further support for the
community housing providers, no increases to income related rent subsidies.
Everyone was hoping the government would at least announce it
would guarantee loans for the newly established Community Housing Funding
Agency to make them cheaper, but again no commitment from
the minister. So when it comes to providing state housing,

(05:16):
the government has always been the first port of call.
Traditionally and historically then there was under investment from successive
governments in the caring or a stock and also how
the needs of people changed. You didn't need a three
bedroom house with room for a veggie garden and a
nice kitchen for mum to bake the afternoon tea for
the kids when they came home from school. That's just

(05:38):
not what the modern family looks like compared to nineteen
thirty three. So there have had to be changes to
stock people who go into social housing. Many of them
have jobs, they have families, they raise them, they move on.
Others are there longer term and as tenants they need

(06:03):
to be they need more management, just as there are
some tenants who are kind of lock up and leave tenants.
If you're a private landlord, you barely see them. The
only way you know they're there is because the rent
lands in your bank account. But there will have been
time if you're a private landlord where you'll have had
tenants that needed a little bit more management, a little

(06:25):
bit more human investment. And the community housing providers tend
to do that better because they have fewer tenants. When
you've got a caying or a tenant manager, they have
far more people that they're trying to manage. Community housing
providers can prevent problems happening before they happen. Coying or

(06:48):
tends to be more reactive because there are just more people.
There's also an expectation that once you get a state house.
That's where you land, you don't move on, that's it.
You've got it for life, whereas in the past it
was understood that it was a stepping stone. So when

(07:09):
it comes to the provision of social housing, do we
need to put more in the hands of the community
housing providers? And will these changes, as far as you're concern,
make it easier for them to do so? I think
the leasing will probably make it easier. Whether the changes
to the contracts for new housing supply will make it

(07:30):
more intractive for investors, that will be for them to
decide do we want Kind or to fulfill its vision
of being a developer, bold, visionary, large scale developer of
urban renewal projects. I mean, I get where they were
coming from, but they couldn't deliver. They didn't have the money,

(07:56):
they didn't have the governance. They were operating in a
time when the housing market was going completely and utterly
insane and the post pandemic years. It was a perfect storm.
So if you're looking for a home, do you care
whether it comes from caying or or do you care
whether it comes from a community housing provider? If you're

(08:19):
living in an area where social housing developments are being built.
Are they being done so thoughtfully? Could we do with
a bit more of the vision that labor had of
you know, social housing as were a mix of private
and public housing. I totally get who coming from, but

(08:40):
we didn't have the money and it wasn't the right time.
They didn't know typical. They had great ideas, but no
idea on how to deliver anyway. Love to hear your
thoughts on this on social housing full stop. You know
where it's being done, Is it being done well? Or
will it have to be done again in another five
to six years. What is the role of the state
to provide public housing? Should it be made As Careen

(09:05):
mcinnaughty said, just give them loans, Give the community housing
providers loans. Let them get on with it because they
do it well.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
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