January 28, 2025 • 10 mins
Some farmers are shearing back the costs with new sheep breeds.
Meant for meat production, ‘Nudies’ are a breed of sheep that don’t grow wool, allowing farmers to cut costs as there’s no need for shearing, dagging, or crutching.
Pierre Syben from Wairere Rams in Masterton told Kerre Woodham in his view, the industry will likely split between the people who stick with wool and those who move towards the Nudies.
He says that hopefully as more people go into non-sheering sheep, it will lift the price of wool as at the moment, it’s a loss-making venture.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerry Wood and Morning's podcast from
News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
D B had a very interesting article this morning on
arin Z about nudies. They are a breed of sheep
that have been born to self shed. To tell us
more about nudies, I'm joined by Pierre Cybin from White
at a Rams and Masterton. Very good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Pierre, morning Carrie.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Surely the whole point of a sheep is its wool
as well as its chop, So why would you want
to have sheep that don't have wool?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Well, yeah, look it's going back to you know, an
old saying the New Zealand farming. Farming was you know,
properly on the on the back of the sheep's back.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
In recent years I as well documented that you will,
places have fallen and so on and so forth. But yeah,
that's sort of no longer the case anymore. It's so
you know, they're like like all farmers, it's it's not
just about what we sell for. It's it's what it
costs to produce, right, So yeah, we've we've just got
(01:18):
to reduce our costs. And and one way, I guess,
you know, I call it the low hanging fruit, and
the cost revolve around wool. Most of the work that
that happens with sheep revolves around wool or or care
of the sheep from from things that happen with wool,
fly strike and crutching and dagging. So these sheep are
(01:41):
here sheep. They don't grow a fleece, they don't get DAGs,
they pretty much don't don't get fly strike. And yeah,
we're we're pretty excited about them.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well, I can imagine, yes, if you're just growing them
or producing them for meat, then I can understand the
maintenance of them, of the animals, you know, to look
after them properly, and then to collect the wool off
their backs that you don't particularly want and are going
to struggle to sell would be expensive and time consuming.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, look, it's you know, it would be. We bought these.
I observed them in Australia and in the UK and
in Europe, these sheep that don't need sharing, and we
sort of started to look at this around about twenty nineteen,
twenty twenty, and so it's been you know, it's been
quite a long journey. And I'd have to say, you know,
(02:37):
not a cheap one either. To find them under but
sort of coming by embryo and artificial insemination. But yeah,
it's you can sort of farm the sheep like you
farm cattle, and so it's not only is it a
rejutter reduction for a sharing toss, and it's still a
(02:57):
deficit if you shear sheep and soluble and so there's
none of that sort of work. Yeah, it's sort of
where you could say, you know, it's a no brainer.
But look, my view on the industry career is that
there will be people that the sheep will suit, particularly
if you're a motor or in northern northern areas. There's
(03:21):
not a lot of shearing gangs up there now and
a lot of small flocks. The industry will just split
and there will be people that stay with wool, and
we produce wool sheep genetics as well. It's it's still
the main part of our business. And there will be
people that for whatever reason move move away from from
wool production. And you know, everything is supply and demand,
(03:45):
and and my hope is that as more people go
into non shearing sheep, it will lift the price of
wool and that will be good for those that stay
with it and those that stay with it deserve to
get paid more because at the moment it's it's a loss,
it's a loss making benure here.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So are they born with here like a deer and
that's the way it stays? Or do they get wooly
when it's cold, and because it's.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
They're actually born with I wouldn't call it a fleece,
it's sort of more of a down and it's quite fluffy.
They have a thicker skin than our ordinary sheep. So
where these genetics came from, you know, up in the
Scottish borders. They get they get snow up there, and
they're outside. They land outside, so they're born they're pretty
(04:34):
pretty vigorous. And then as they by the time they're
sort of four to five months old, probably in about
three months, they start shedding that that sort of that
that down. And by the time they're sort of six
to eight months most of them have just got a
hair coat. And and so in the winter time they
(04:55):
would grow maybe sort of a centimeter of fluff and
then as the weather warms up, they just shed it.
And you know, I mean you don't see it lying
around the paddocks. They don't sort of wake up on
the first September and say hey, guys, that's spring. Let's
just get rid of it today. It happens over you
over a period of time.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So yeah, wow, because it would be you know, thinking
about the dear souls that knit jerseys for sheep, you know,
during landing season in August days to get a lot
of people who wanted to send in jerseys for the
sheep who were cold because they'd just been sheared and
then there was a cold snap. But you'd imagine that
they would think this would be kinder too if you
(05:36):
were in a really hot climate, having no wool would
be a benefit.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah. It probably would be a big part of our
client tole are in the north, in North Auckland, and
but equally there's a number of people in Southland and
Otago and you know, look, it has taken a bit
of convincing for those people that you know, naturally you
would think, well, if they've got no wool, you know,
the sheep are going to freeze it. It's not going
(06:05):
to they're not going to last in these conditions. But
but look they you know that most of these genetics
came out of the Scottish borders and tougher conditions than
New Zealand and are born in the snow and you know,
and I've witnessed that and thought, well, hey, you know
that the is sheep would fit anywhere in New zund
you know an equally some of the genetics came out
(06:25):
of Ireland as well, nor An Ireland.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So yeah, that's cool. Yeah, a couple of questions from
our Texas how do they get on in our potent sun?
And with the UV? Do they get more cancers? You
know how sometimes you have to put the sinc on
horses noses and things.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah, well, so they've actually got a hair so they
have got a hair cut that it's not like you
don't look at them and say, well, you know down
to beer skin. They have actually got quite it's going
back to your original comment that is so when they
lose that well and they've got a hair skin it
is more like a deer skin. Yeah, it's it is
(07:00):
quite a thick hair. So, no, they don't get they
don't get any UV, have any problems with UV? No?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
No, okay. And another one says, why can you ask
this man why nudies are better than Wilchires.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Well, look, I don't like going down that track of
saying this is better than that. But what I did
see was or what I felt in New Zealand. The
Wilchires wass a. It's a very tightly you know, tightly grouped,
tightly held a bunch of genetics. And if you go
back not that many years, there was really only one
(07:38):
Wilshire breeder in New Zealand. So most of the Wilchairs
in New Zealand, if you track them back, you know,
all roads point to that one breeder. So I haven't
said that there's a lot of people have done some
good things. So we felt that this was a like
an outcross. And probably half of our clients to date
(08:02):
are existing Wilkshire breeders that just want to add some
hybrid bigger and they've been you know, they've proven to
be really good like that. So look, you know, I
don't decry New Zealand genetics. And in fact, we've you know,
this last season, I've brought a couple of Wilkshire rams
because I think they add some value for our sheep.
(08:22):
And you know, we've done three years of embryos've brought
in about fifteen hundred embryos and probably inseminated two and
a half thousand news with AI and we need to
stop that, you know, from a cost point of view,
but also we need to start using the New Zealand
genetics and and using you know, using genetics that are
(08:47):
acclimatized to our climate.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
And just yeah, look, our whole focus has always has
been and always will be is to just try and
breed better sheep. And if you look back and look
back in history, that's why. Now that's what most sheep
breeders in New Zealand are doing. They they are just
trying to breed better sheet that they need less work
(09:14):
and just produce more off you know, off a pretty
low cost farming system. Now we're all grass generally in
New Zealand pretty much. I'd say ninety nine percent of
our lamb is grass, is totally grass fed, and I
think that's what it sells well. And on the world stage.
(09:34):
I've worked in Australia as well, a big portion of
their lamb is grain fed. It tastes different the English genetics.
You know, we've we've sent genetics to England and they've
done really well there with outdoor outdoor lambing. And as
subsidies come off there. It's getting it's getting more and
more difficult for English farmers to you know, to farm
(09:57):
under their their system of indoors and you can talk
about indoor lambing. There's that many bugs indoors and those
how you know that cheaper probably better off side.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And just one last question, do they what color? Do
they come in? White or black as well?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Hey, I'll tell you what whatever you want, we'll read it.
A beautiful jinger for orange ones. No, look read that white?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, god interesting, they'd be so lovely to pet to feel.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah, well you know we could, we could tell you one.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So I need to keep the grass down up north.
Oh that is so interesting. Thank you so much, Pierre,
I really appreciate it. Pierre Cyber and Sales and Marketing
at White Rams.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news talks.
It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Kerry Wood and Morning's podcast from
News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
D B had a very interesting article this morning on
arin Z about nudies. They are a breed of sheep
that have been born to self shed. To tell us
more about nudies, I'm joined by Pierre Cybin from White
at a Rams and Masterton. Very good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Pierre, morning Carrie.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Surely the whole point of a sheep is its wool
as well as its chop, So why would you want
to have sheep that don't have wool?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Well, yeah, look it's going back to you know, an
old saying the New Zealand farming. Farming was you know,
properly on the on the back of the sheep's back.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
In recent years I as well documented that you will,
places have fallen and so on and so forth. But yeah,
that's sort of no longer the case anymore. It's so
you know, they're like like all farmers, it's it's not
just about what we sell for. It's it's what it
costs to produce, right, So yeah, we've we've just got
(01:18):
to reduce our costs. And and one way, I guess,
you know, I call it the low hanging fruit, and
the cost revolve around wool. Most of the work that
that happens with sheep revolves around wool or or care
of the sheep from from things that happen with wool,
fly strike and crutching and dagging. So these sheep are
(01:41):
here sheep. They don't grow a fleece, they don't get DAGs,
they pretty much don't don't get fly strike. And yeah,
we're we're pretty excited about them.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well, I can imagine, yes, if you're just growing them
or producing them for meat, then I can understand the
maintenance of them, of the animals, you know, to look
after them properly, and then to collect the wool off
their backs that you don't particularly want and are going
to struggle to sell would be expensive and time consuming.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, look, it's you know, it would be. We bought these.
I observed them in Australia and in the UK and
in Europe, these sheep that don't need sharing, and we
sort of started to look at this around about twenty nineteen,
twenty twenty, and so it's been you know, it's been
quite a long journey. And I'd have to say, you know,
(02:37):
not a cheap one either. To find them under but
sort of coming by embryo and artificial insemination. But yeah,
it's you can sort of farm the sheep like you
farm cattle, and so it's not only is it a
rejutter reduction for a sharing toss, and it's still a
(02:57):
deficit if you shear sheep and soluble and so there's
none of that sort of work. Yeah, it's sort of
where you could say, you know, it's a no brainer.
But look, my view on the industry career is that
there will be people that the sheep will suit, particularly
if you're a motor or in northern northern areas. There's
(03:21):
not a lot of shearing gangs up there now and
a lot of small flocks. The industry will just split
and there will be people that stay with wool, and
we produce wool sheep genetics as well. It's it's still
the main part of our business. And there will be
people that for whatever reason move move away from from
wool production. And you know, everything is supply and demand,
(03:45):
and and my hope is that as more people go
into non shearing sheep, it will lift the price of
wool and that will be good for those that stay
with it and those that stay with it deserve to
get paid more because at the moment it's it's a loss,
it's a loss making benure here.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So are they born with here like a deer and
that's the way it stays? Or do they get wooly
when it's cold, and because it's.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
They're actually born with I wouldn't call it a fleece,
it's sort of more of a down and it's quite fluffy.
They have a thicker skin than our ordinary sheep. So
where these genetics came from, you know, up in the
Scottish borders. They get they get snow up there, and
they're outside. They land outside, so they're born they're pretty
(04:34):
pretty vigorous. And then as they by the time they're
sort of four to five months old, probably in about
three months, they start shedding that that sort of that
that down. And by the time they're sort of six
to eight months most of them have just got a
hair coat. And and so in the winter time they
(04:55):
would grow maybe sort of a centimeter of fluff and
then as the weather warms up, they just shed it.
And you know, I mean you don't see it lying
around the paddocks. They don't sort of wake up on
the first September and say hey, guys, that's spring. Let's
just get rid of it today. It happens over you
over a period of time.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So yeah, wow, because it would be you know, thinking
about the dear souls that knit jerseys for sheep, you know,
during landing season in August days to get a lot
of people who wanted to send in jerseys for the
sheep who were cold because they'd just been sheared and
then there was a cold snap. But you'd imagine that
they would think this would be kinder too if you
(05:36):
were in a really hot climate, having no wool would
be a benefit.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah. It probably would be a big part of our
client tole are in the north, in North Auckland, and
but equally there's a number of people in Southland and
Otago and you know, look, it has taken a bit
of convincing for those people that you know, naturally you
would think, well, if they've got no wool, you know,
the sheep are going to freeze it. It's not going
(06:05):
to they're not going to last in these conditions. But
but look they you know that most of these genetics
came out of the Scottish borders and tougher conditions than
New Zealand and are born in the snow and you know,
and I've witnessed that and thought, well, hey, you know
that the is sheep would fit anywhere in New zund
you know an equally some of the genetics came out
(06:25):
of Ireland as well, nor An Ireland.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So yeah, that's cool. Yeah, a couple of questions from
our Texas how do they get on in our potent sun?
And with the UV? Do they get more cancers? You
know how sometimes you have to put the sinc on
horses noses and things.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah, well, so they've actually got a hair so they
have got a hair cut that it's not like you
don't look at them and say, well, you know down
to beer skin. They have actually got quite it's going
back to your original comment that is so when they
lose that well and they've got a hair skin it
is more like a deer skin. Yeah, it's it is
(07:00):
quite a thick hair. So, no, they don't get they
don't get any UV, have any problems with UV? No?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
No, okay. And another one says, why can you ask
this man why nudies are better than Wilchires.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Well, look, I don't like going down that track of
saying this is better than that. But what I did
see was or what I felt in New Zealand. The
Wilchires wass a. It's a very tightly you know, tightly grouped,
tightly held a bunch of genetics. And if you go
back not that many years, there was really only one
(07:38):
Wilshire breeder in New Zealand. So most of the Wilchairs
in New Zealand, if you track them back, you know,
all roads point to that one breeder. So I haven't
said that there's a lot of people have done some
good things. So we felt that this was a like
an outcross. And probably half of our clients to date
(08:02):
are existing Wilkshire breeders that just want to add some
hybrid bigger and they've been you know, they've proven to
be really good like that. So look, you know, I
don't decry New Zealand genetics. And in fact, we've you know,
this last season, I've brought a couple of Wilkshire rams
because I think they add some value for our sheep.
(08:22):
And you know, we've done three years of embryos've brought
in about fifteen hundred embryos and probably inseminated two and
a half thousand news with AI and we need to
stop that, you know, from a cost point of view,
but also we need to start using the New Zealand
genetics and and using you know, using genetics that are
(08:47):
acclimatized to our climate.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
And just yeah, look, our whole focus has always has
been and always will be is to just try and
breed better sheep. And if you look back and look
back in history, that's why. Now that's what most sheep
breeders in New Zealand are doing. They they are just
trying to breed better sheet that they need less work
(09:14):
and just produce more off you know, off a pretty
low cost farming system. Now we're all grass generally in
New Zealand pretty much. I'd say ninety nine percent of
our lamb is grass, is totally grass fed, and I
think that's what it sells well. And on the world stage.
(09:34):
I've worked in Australia as well, a big portion of
their lamb is grain fed. It tastes different the English genetics.
You know, we've we've sent genetics to England and they've
done really well there with outdoor outdoor lambing. And as
subsidies come off there. It's getting it's getting more and
more difficult for English farmers to you know, to farm
(09:57):
under their their system of indoors and you can talk
about indoor lambing. There's that many bugs indoors and those
how you know that cheaper probably better off side.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And just one last question, do they what color? Do
they come in? White or black as well?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Hey, I'll tell you what whatever you want, we'll read it.
A beautiful jinger for orange ones. No, look read that white?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, god interesting, they'd be so lovely to pet to feel.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah, well you know we could, we could tell you one.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So I need to keep the grass down up north.
Oh that is so interesting. Thank you so much, Pierre,
I really appreciate it. Pierre Cyber and Sales and Marketing
at White Rams.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news talks.
It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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