Companies connected to the cancelled Juicy Fest and Timeless Summer Tour music festivals owe creditors more than $2.4 million.
Festivals were scheduled in cities throughout January, but were cancelled in December.
Eccles Entertainment co-founder Brent Eccles says new legislation is needed to protect the ticket buyers - who aren't always guaranteed to get their money back if an event is cancelled.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks be follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Joining us on the line equals entertainment co founder Brent
equals to discuss the potential law change when it comes
to festivals and the money that they hold for tickets. Brent,
very good afternoon to you.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
How are you going?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Very good? Thanks, Brent. So just to get to the
just to just put this in a solid question to start, So,
when a concert festival proba uses a company like ticket Master,
what happens with the money as it comes in from
the punters buying the tickets?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Oh, you buy a ticket, The money is passes to
the ticket and the ticket that holds that money until
the show has played and then releases that money to
the promoter or the venue or both.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
And so I'm assuming when it's a company, I think
we're talking about one called ticket Ferry. There's probably some
others they have a different model. Whereas the money comes in,
it just goes to the the promoter.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Well, they take their piece out of it, their booking
fees probably and pass it on to the promoter. Yes,
that's correct, and so so sorry, you can do well,
you hope that the promoter was cashed up enough to
be able to repay the money. If it is, the
show is canceled.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
And so obviously you run a solid establishment equals entertainment.
You've been going for a very long time, and you
would propose legislation that How would that affect if there
was legislation that came in that basically said you have
to do it that way? Would it have to be
sorry you go?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
The only effect would be that the promoter, that the
punter is protected and if things go wrong, and they
do go wrong, they go wrong for me as well.
But you know that the money, the ticket money, goes
straight back to the ticket buyer. It's the very first
thing you do it for a show is canceled, and
then deal with the consequences yourself, because that's your business
you're running. So that's no change. The punter wouldn't notice
(02:10):
any different, but to be a structural change in the background.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
So, but they have to always go with one of
these established companies or could they just prove that they're
keeping the money themselves and appall somewhere else and a
bank account somewhere else and not touching it.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Well, you say a bank account. I mean, you know
it should already be held in trust so no one
can touch it. They can't touch it until the show
is run, but goes in the trust or something similar.
But there are many companies, ticketing companies in New Zealand
that do keep the money and don't pass it on
to the promoter, lots of them.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Is it unique to us print or how does it
work over in Australia. Australia obviously you've done festivals and
events and gigs over there. Have they got title laws?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I think they have a voluntary code of conduct that
a lot of the major players, not the major promoters
and tickets they adhere to. We don't quite have that
here yet. You know, our business is well, it's small
in comparison them, and there are less players, so we
really need help from the government to to to legislate
(03:15):
and to protect the punters and help the business. The
thing is, there's so much money going through these ticket
is now that it really is a potential problem that's
just waiting waiting in the wings to happen. Again.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Is it a checking an egg thing?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Though?
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Whereas if you're a concert and you're trying to put
it on. Don't you need the money that's coming in
from the tickets to pay the deposits and be it
fears for them?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Well, this is why it goes wrong at the very point. Yeah,
you know, and you have to have money to start
a business, any business, And you know, if you want
to be a promoter, you better have a fair whack
at money as a reserve because things do go wrong
and you shouldn't be assuming that a ticket buyer is
(03:58):
a partner with you when you get when you're going
to air concert. They're not as ticket buyers. So but.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Bring a lot of promoters would have would have got
where they are today through running a massive hail Mary
of a concert and just fly seat to the pants
and pulling pulling it off.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Right, Yes, I think, so good luck to them, Good
luck to them, But I just don't work that way.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
So yeah, but so, but if we got a juicy fest,
which is sort of the topic that's brought the stuff,
But they didn't go down because of ticket sales. They
went down because they couldn't get their alcohol licens. And
this might not be exactly what you're talking about, but
I saw an excellent Facebook post from you talking about
how difficult events are and how different they are being
treated when it comes to alcohol licensing compared to say
(04:46):
a bar and a restaurant. What are the differences.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
There, Oh, it's a horror show. I mean they limit
you to the amount. Well, you know, okay, if you
need to go to a green field, there's not a
normal venue. You need to get those special license and
to apply for a special license, they can shut you
down all over the park. Often they limit you to
two drinks per person, or they'll cut you down to
(05:10):
one drink during the show, or no drinks. They have
this power over you. But if you have something like
Eden Park or Mount Smart there's an on license. They
tend to work with an existing license that's more flexible.
But right across the country there's no consistency, so promoting
promoters don't really know what's what's going to happen when
when they're applying for a special license, and it makes
(05:33):
it very difficult. It's as if the powers that be
behind it or are trying to stop New Zealanders drinking.
My take on it, and to me, that's very non
key with key, he's like to have a drink and
if you don't want a drink. Don't. But if you do,
why can't you buy four drinks at once and give
(05:53):
three to your mates? I mean, it's it kind of
makes it almost makes it feel feel a bit wrong
to be buying alcohol.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Yeah, what do you think concerts? So if you're say,
and it does appear that they have some kind of
ideological opposition to alcohol. If that's the case, why why
do they Why do they target concerts and festivals as a.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Part of good point? That's a very good point, because
they think that it's a great source of alcohol harm.
Now I just I just don't agree. I mean, you
know you can buy on your way okay, on your
way to the gig, you can stop at a pub
and ad buy as many drinks as as you wanted
to have any drinks as you want to stand now,
I'm going to say anything, but you know you can
(06:35):
only when you go to a concert, which has a
lot of people to look after and monitor alcohol, you're
going to buy two drinks at once. It doesn't make
any sense.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Do you think that the people that you have to
go to get your license and sorted that they want
concerts to go ahead? Do you think that they or
is that is it a let's see if we can
get this done. We're going to make it work for you.
What what do you need because we want concerts? Or
is there a culture that of let's find a problem
(07:04):
to make this hard.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Well, well, the people they're often called the try agencies
of alcohol harm and health and police figures, but it
would appear that they don't like the fact that the
alcoholic concerts. That's how it appears, and it also appears
they're not responsible to counsel. They're responsible to a minister,
(07:28):
and the minister doesn't seem too keen to be talking
to them.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Are you getting any movement in this area, Brent, because
obviously you're pushing this and it seems.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Well maybe after this I will, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well hopefully, But I'm just going to say, you know,
you the stuff we're doing it the founders of electric
ere laan way, I mean, every single organizer of major festivals.
So what happens, you know, if you keep getting this
sort of behavior from these alcohol committees, then you're just
going to shut up shop and not have festivals here.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Right. Well, it just makes it really unpalatable. And the
thing about what I care about with ticketing money alcohol
all stuff is the punter. Why can't I go to
a concert and buy a few beers for me? Em mate?
They won't let me at a concert, even though it's
highly monitored. It just seems like it's it's Kiev's like
to have a drink and to try and talk us
(08:19):
into something else. I think it's just wrong and it's.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
A strange thing, isn't it, Because you're beholden so keev's
do want a drink and concerts need to be able
to sell drinks to stay in business. So if we
want concerts and festivals, then we're going to have to
have some drinks, is I mean? Look, the sober concert
is a very quiet concept. Another reason. So do you
think just the people that are choosing to and are
(08:44):
getting into the positions that make this decision are anti
alcohol chicken licking? Well that as opposed to you know,
people from the industry like you you know.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah, look, I think I don't know what drives them.
I already don't. But think about this, what's happened. What's
happened with personal responsibility? If I go to a concert
and have so many drinks like a pall over, whose
fault is that? Your my faults, but they would say, no,
it's the promoter's fault because they let them get to
(09:15):
that situation. Yeah, and they could even be you know,
the person's sold in the drinks security that they could
all be in the firing line. I think it's just wrong.
I think personal responsibility is where it's at. And if
you try and legislat and make rules for people in
every sense, you're going to fail because you can't.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Yeah. Well no, no, I agree one hundred percent. And
what annoys me is the people that are trying to
build things and put things on and and make things
happen are the people that get absolutely put through the
ringer to the point where they're pulling out their hair
to get past these people that are putting up barriers
(09:56):
that aren't in line with the thinking of the people
that they're supposed to be working for. That that's that's right. Yeah, no, no,
you go.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
They seem to be tasked to stop people drinking. You're
not going to do that. It's not going to happen, and.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
We don't want to stop Another news, Brent, it's twenty
years since we made the excellent album Brown Sabbath Together
that you produced. Have you listened to that lately.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I hand it on Other Nation is a very good record.
It's buddy it is as a classic. Yeah, there are
so many good songs on that album. It's just the
hit after hit after hit.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
It's a great album. You've got some powerful song sounds
out of the lab recording studio. Anyways, thank you so
much time.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Brent good to share, Brent Good phone guys, go well
that is Equals Entertainment co founder Brent Equals.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
For more from news talks b listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks be follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Joining us on the line equals entertainment co founder Brent
equals to discuss the potential law change when it comes
to festivals and the money that they hold for tickets. Brent,
very good afternoon to you.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
How are you going?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Very good? Thanks, Brent. So just to get to the
just to just put this in a solid question to start, So,
when a concert festival proba uses a company like ticket Master,
what happens with the money as it comes in from
the punters buying the tickets?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Oh, you buy a ticket, The money is passes to
the ticket and the ticket that holds that money until
the show has played and then releases that money to
the promoter or the venue or both.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
And so I'm assuming when it's a company, I think
we're talking about one called ticket Ferry. There's probably some
others they have a different model. Whereas the money comes in,
it just goes to the the promoter.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Well, they take their piece out of it, their booking
fees probably and pass it on to the promoter. Yes,
that's correct, and so so sorry, you can do well,
you hope that the promoter was cashed up enough to
be able to repay the money. If it is, the
show is canceled.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
And so obviously you run a solid establishment equals entertainment.
You've been going for a very long time, and you
would propose legislation that How would that affect if there
was legislation that came in that basically said you have
to do it that way? Would it have to be
sorry you go?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
The only effect would be that the promoter, that the
punter is protected and if things go wrong, and they
do go wrong, they go wrong for me as well.
But you know that the money, the ticket money, goes
straight back to the ticket buyer. It's the very first
thing you do it for a show is canceled, and
then deal with the consequences yourself, because that's your business
you're running. So that's no change. The punter wouldn't notice
(02:10):
any different, but to be a structural change in the background.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
So, but they have to always go with one of
these established companies or could they just prove that they're
keeping the money themselves and appall somewhere else and a
bank account somewhere else and not touching it.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Well, you say a bank account. I mean, you know
it should already be held in trust so no one
can touch it. They can't touch it until the show
is run, but goes in the trust or something similar.
But there are many companies, ticketing companies in New Zealand
that do keep the money and don't pass it on
to the promoter, lots of them.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Is it unique to us print or how does it
work over in Australia. Australia obviously you've done festivals and
events and gigs over there. Have they got title laws?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I think they have a voluntary code of conduct that
a lot of the major players, not the major promoters
and tickets they adhere to. We don't quite have that
here yet. You know, our business is well, it's small
in comparison them, and there are less players, so we
really need help from the government to to to legislate
(03:15):
and to protect the punters and help the business. The
thing is, there's so much money going through these ticket
is now that it really is a potential problem that's
just waiting waiting in the wings to happen. Again.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Is it a checking an egg thing?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Though?
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Whereas if you're a concert and you're trying to put
it on. Don't you need the money that's coming in
from the tickets to pay the deposits and be it
fears for them?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Well, this is why it goes wrong at the very point. Yeah,
you know, and you have to have money to start
a business, any business, And you know, if you want
to be a promoter, you better have a fair whack
at money as a reserve because things do go wrong
and you shouldn't be assuming that a ticket buyer is
(03:58):
a partner with you when you get when you're going
to air concert. They're not as ticket buyers. So but.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Bring a lot of promoters would have would have got
where they are today through running a massive hail Mary
of a concert and just fly seat to the pants
and pulling pulling it off.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Right, Yes, I think, so good luck to them, Good
luck to them, But I just don't work that way.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
So yeah, but so, but if we got a juicy fest,
which is sort of the topic that's brought the stuff,
But they didn't go down because of ticket sales. They
went down because they couldn't get their alcohol licens. And
this might not be exactly what you're talking about, but
I saw an excellent Facebook post from you talking about
how difficult events are and how different they are being
treated when it comes to alcohol licensing compared to say
(04:46):
a bar and a restaurant. What are the differences.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
There, Oh, it's a horror show. I mean they limit
you to the amount. Well, you know, okay, if you
need to go to a green field, there's not a
normal venue. You need to get those special license and
to apply for a special license, they can shut you
down all over the park. Often they limit you to
two drinks per person, or they'll cut you down to
(05:10):
one drink during the show, or no drinks. They have
this power over you. But if you have something like
Eden Park or Mount Smart there's an on license. They
tend to work with an existing license that's more flexible.
But right across the country there's no consistency, so promoting
promoters don't really know what's what's going to happen when
when they're applying for a special license, and it makes
(05:33):
it very difficult. It's as if the powers that be
behind it or are trying to stop New Zealanders drinking.
My take on it, and to me, that's very non
key with key, he's like to have a drink and
if you don't want a drink. Don't. But if you do,
why can't you buy four drinks at once and give
(05:53):
three to your mates? I mean, it's it kind of
makes it almost makes it feel feel a bit wrong
to be buying alcohol.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Yeah, what do you think concerts? So if you're say,
and it does appear that they have some kind of
ideological opposition to alcohol. If that's the case, why why
do they Why do they target concerts and festivals as a.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Part of good point? That's a very good point, because
they think that it's a great source of alcohol harm.
Now I just I just don't agree. I mean, you
know you can buy on your way okay, on your
way to the gig, you can stop at a pub
and ad buy as many drinks as as you wanted
to have any drinks as you want to stand now,
I'm going to say anything, but you know you can
(06:35):
only when you go to a concert, which has a
lot of people to look after and monitor alcohol, you're
going to buy two drinks at once. It doesn't make
any sense.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Do you think that the people that you have to
go to get your license and sorted that they want
concerts to go ahead? Do you think that they or
is that is it a let's see if we can
get this done. We're going to make it work for you.
What what do you need because we want concerts? Or
is there a culture that of let's find a problem
(07:04):
to make this hard.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Well, well, the people they're often called the try agencies
of alcohol harm and health and police figures, but it
would appear that they don't like the fact that the
alcoholic concerts. That's how it appears, and it also appears
they're not responsible to counsel. They're responsible to a minister,
(07:28):
and the minister doesn't seem too keen to be talking
to them.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Are you getting any movement in this area, Brent, because
obviously you're pushing this and it seems.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Well maybe after this I will, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well hopefully, But I'm just going to say, you know,
you the stuff we're doing it the founders of electric
ere laan way, I mean, every single organizer of major festivals.
So what happens, you know, if you keep getting this
sort of behavior from these alcohol committees, then you're just
going to shut up shop and not have festivals here.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Right. Well, it just makes it really unpalatable. And the
thing about what I care about with ticketing money alcohol
all stuff is the punter. Why can't I go to
a concert and buy a few beers for me? Em mate?
They won't let me at a concert, even though it's
highly monitored. It just seems like it's it's Kiev's like
to have a drink and to try and talk us
(08:19):
into something else. I think it's just wrong and it's.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
A strange thing, isn't it, Because you're beholden so keev's
do want a drink and concerts need to be able
to sell drinks to stay in business. So if we
want concerts and festivals, then we're going to have to
have some drinks, is I mean? Look, the sober concert
is a very quiet concept. Another reason. So do you
think just the people that are choosing to and are
(08:44):
getting into the positions that make this decision are anti
alcohol chicken licking? Well that as opposed to you know,
people from the industry like you you know.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah, look, I think I don't know what drives them.
I already don't. But think about this, what's happened. What's
happened with personal responsibility? If I go to a concert
and have so many drinks like a pall over, whose
fault is that? Your my faults, but they would say, no,
it's the promoter's fault because they let them get to
(09:15):
that situation. Yeah, and they could even be you know,
the person's sold in the drinks security that they could
all be in the firing line. I think it's just wrong.
I think personal responsibility is where it's at. And if
you try and legislat and make rules for people in
every sense, you're going to fail because you can't.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Yeah. Well no, no, I agree one hundred percent. And
what annoys me is the people that are trying to
build things and put things on and and make things
happen are the people that get absolutely put through the
ringer to the point where they're pulling out their hair
to get past these people that are putting up barriers
(09:56):
that aren't in line with the thinking of the people
that they're supposed to be working for. That that's that's right. Yeah, no, no,
you go.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
They seem to be tasked to stop people drinking. You're
not going to do that. It's not going to happen, and.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
We don't want to stop Another news, Brent, it's twenty
years since we made the excellent album Brown Sabbath Together
that you produced. Have you listened to that lately.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I hand it on Other Nation is a very good record.
It's buddy it is as a classic. Yeah, there are
so many good songs on that album. It's just the
hit after hit after hit.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
It's a great album. You've got some powerful song sounds
out of the lab recording studio. Anyways, thank you so
much time.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Brent good to share, Brent Good phone guys, go well
that is Equals Entertainment co founder Brent Equals.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
For more from news talks b listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
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