June 26, 2024 • 27 mins
ASB CEO and the highest paid female executive in New Zealand, Vittoria Shortt, shares her best and worst money stories with Liam Dann.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
I'm hi. I'm Liam Dan, New Zealand Herald Business Editor
at Large, and welcome to this episode of Money Talks.
This is a podcast about money, but we're not going
to tell you how to get rich, and we're not
going to try and pick the next interest rate move.
In this series, I'll be talking to interesting New Zealanders
about how money has shaped their lives and what they've
(00:27):
learned over the years. For today's podcast, I'm joined by
the CEO of ASB Bank and the country's highest paid
female CEO, Vittoria short Kuda Vittoria, Welcome to Money Talks.
Sure lamb that highest paid title. We threw it in
the intro there. You know, is that something that bothers
you or do you feel sort of proud to have
achieved that?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It's definitely not something I think about actually a lot,
or even if at all. You know, the days are
just filled with other things that just feel important and
so I don't tend to think about that. But the
only thing I would say is, you know, there's a
lot of commentary around women and women in leadership positions,
and it's certainly nice to have some of my female colleagues,
(01:10):
you know, reach out and sort of recognize it as
a positive thing.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
So yeah, yea, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I mean it's an unusual thing when you get to
a certain level of success in business, something that we
don't usually talk about. Suddenly you're you know, it's published
to material, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, Look, let's let's jump back a bit and talk
a bit more about money growing up. What were the
first memories you have of money and holding money in
your hand?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hmm okay, so this is going to sound like a
plug for a SB but it is not. It's just
I do remember taking my little ASB Savings book to
Coe Primary School, rowent with my five or ten cents,
depending on I don't know how good I'd been, I
guess for the week and depositing money, and that is
my earliest memory of cash physically in my hands. And
(01:58):
also it came with lot of advice from my mother.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Ah yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So do you think you know you've had that sort
of sense of being a savor instilled in you from me?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Absolutely? Mum. You know, we had a lot of we
had a lot of financial difficulty in my family and
Mum was very focused on saving money, so she encouraged
us really early on to basically do two things, work
and save wow. And so yeah, so first job at
ten never looked back.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah. So what did your parents do growing up?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, so a mum was a teacher and my dad
had a small business, right, and it was the small
business side of things that was really problematic and difficult.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
And was that through the economic challenges the time kind
of thing, or there's a good changes in New Zealand
and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's kind of hard to know when you're young and
growing up exactly what causes what you know, you listen
to your parents talk around the kitchen table, I guess,
and sometimes it's hard to make heads or tails of it.
But the thing that I really learned pretty qui is
how destabilizing it is and how much emotional pressure and
(03:06):
stress from money decisions and the things that kind of
went from there that happened in our family. And so
really early on it was less about what was going
on in the economy or the environment or the business,
and it was a lot more around the emotional.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
As a child.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
As a child, Yeah, and so you're growing up in
the whitehadow.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
No, actually I was in Auckland, but went to university
in Waco.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I see that.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, of course, yes, did you have one of those
little yellow yellowplants?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I did. Yeah, we had a few, and I possibly
could have tucked into them from time to time when
I shouldn't have been. You know, that was half the
fun of how many money bugs?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, did you get pocket money or are you working
for the pocket money?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Working? So so we didn't tend to I think, you know,
the family had a belief that everyone just had to
pitch in and you don't get paid for pitching in.
Not in my household growing up, So we sort of
divide and conquering all the jobs and get those done.
And yeah, I started working when I was ten with
my brother and we shared a paper round. So it
(04:08):
was more saving from money that we earned than anything else.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, and obviously you're saving some of that by the
sound of it. But were the things you saved up for?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
What were you interested in to spend it on in
those days?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah? Interesting, So again you influence from my mum was
in the spend half save half mode, and so we
didn't earn that much, so that the spending typically because
we picked our papers up from the local dairy. The
spending typically went into Lolly's at the dairy, and the
saving it was actually I was never ever saving for
anything in particular. I was always saving because financial independence
(04:44):
mattered more to me than anything else, just because of
the family situation.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So having that buffer, knowing the money absolutely freedom yep.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Sure yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
And so at school did that sort of I guess
understanding of money and finances and where your career has
now gone. Did that affect choices at school? Did you
study economics and things?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah? So money never impacted my subject selection. What impacted
that more than anything else is what I enjoyed, right,
And I'm sort of a believer. And the more you
enjoy something, the more you work at it. The more
you work at it, the better you get. The better
you get, the more you enjoy it, and it just
sort of becomes a bit of a filling prophecy. And
so the subjects that that I was good at were
(05:24):
economics and accounting.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Right, so leaned into them I did.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Were there other things that like hobbies and things that
could have been a different pathway.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So I've shared this story before. If I wasn't a
bankrut be a farmer, right? I love the outdoors, and
I just think that's one of New Zealand's one of
the beautiful parts about the country. There are so many
mountains to hike, beaches to enjoy, you know, it's a
big part of I think kiwis and who we are
and what we do.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
But at university, you did a Bachelor of Management Studies,
Is that right, with accounting finance? So you really were
immersed in that world from the get go.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yes. And how I sort of started down that path
actually was Dad's influence. He sort of looked at my
grades and what I was enjoying at school, and he
made a couple of suggestions around, you know, what I
might want to study. And one of those things that
he said to me that I kind of grabbed onto
was if you choose accounting, you can work anywhere in
(06:22):
the world. And I thought that sounds exciting. So that
sort of started me off down an accounting path. But interestingly,
I started with accounting, then I did my first finance paper.
I loved the finance paper, so I kept doing more
of those. Then I did a strategy paper. Loved that,
so I kept from going down, picking up a whole
lot more strategy papers and Weirdly, my career started to
(06:46):
mirror that, right, it started work. So it's all about
following the things that yeah are doing. Was your first
job out of UNI, was that Deloitte, that's right, doing auditing? Yeah, yes,
and so that was that was the more of the accounting, absolutely,
(07:07):
and the travel the world out of thinking that's right,
which I didn't do.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Right, So you didn't didn't get a post in Singapore
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I didn't. Actually, I was really enjoying the work that
I was doing in New Zealand. So I stayed in
New Zealand for quite some time in my early career.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
You know, sometimes I asked people who go into Deloitt
to one of the Big four, you know, you weren't
tempted to sort of you can build a whole career
through those that they look after people and they carry
them right through. You weren't sort of sucked into the
machine of the of the accounting world like that.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Well what happened was first off, fantastic firm, incredible opportunities,
and so one of those was I quite quickly moved
into the corporate finance team. Really enjoyed that work. So
at the time we were doing commercial litigations, expert evidence
for commercial litigation, due diligence, valuations of businesses and so
(07:54):
M and A kind of activity. And I loved the
M and A work I was doing, and that's when
I decided to go in house M and A for
Carter Hot Harvey.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
So again I was just sort of following my nose
in terms of the work that I most enjoyed.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, that's an interesting company.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
What era of Carter Holt were you in.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Chris Ladell was to sell yeah, yeah, and so when did.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I'm just trying to think when Graham Heart got involved?
Was he I had left by the time, right, and
that was sort of a would have been a will
when hitting at that point, that's right.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
So I think that was because I left card Holt
in two thousand and two, that's when I went to Australia,
so I think Graham came, yeah, not long after that.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, but I remember Chris the deal. We were dealing
with a wall of wood, and yes, you know, there
was a lot of challenges even then, you know, and
just getting getting the mix.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
So I guess that's that's a very real world, kind
of gritty sort of thing to keep your teeth and fantastic.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So I started doing as I say in house M
and A. So that the buying and the selling of
the businesses, and there was quite a lot of that
occurring at that time under Cross's leadership. But then I
I always wanted to stay on and see how those
businesses went. So I always became fascinated in the strategy
behind the merger or the divestment, and so I wanted
(09:12):
to get more into rather than buying and selling businesses,
I wanted to get more into understanding how they ran.
So I asked if I could get out of the
M and A team, and I went into the swam
milling division and terrific role there. It's as great as
you get. And you know, it's deconstruction manufacturing that's really
(09:32):
challenging work. And you know, and also saw that sort
of the ups and the downs, the periods of making
cash losses, making difficult decisions like shutting down plants which
could be the only main employer in a small town.
I saw how people led through that. So it was
my first foray into business business decisions.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
High level, I mean, you know, management at the reasonably
high level. There where you're actually having to make big calls.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Absolutely, and it really a lot of fire.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, So how long did you stay before you moved
into banking?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So that was I'm going to say two thousand and
I'm gonna give my dates right a wee while back,
So two thousand and two. I stayed there until then.
And then my husband, he's a Kiwi, he's off a
farm down south of Auckland, and he had finished what
he was doing, sold his business and we decided that
we'd go to Australia. And when we got to Australia,
(10:32):
he was running a business over there and I honestly
was looking through ads thinking, I know, I don't want
to go back into m and A. I want to
stay in business, and there was just an ad for
the Commonwealth Bank of Australia. They were looking for someone
who had my skill set, and I thought, well, it's
a big company, it's got lots of different divisions, lots
(10:54):
of opportunities, and so I'll give it a go.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, and it's obviously worked out. You've stayed a long
time in banking, then you know it must be must
be twenty years, more more than many years, and to
have that sort of success in the banking sector. Something's
obviously gelled. You know, what would you say is the
reason for your success in that particular industry.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
You've got to love what you do. I think that's
the starting point with everything. And then people sometimes look
at you a bit sideways. It's like, you love banking
and I do genuinely likes people.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
The reputation is it might be a bit gray, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
It's not that at all. It's firstly, I just think
about the impact that we can have and you know,
powering up economies, helping businesses, helping people through the difficult times,
you know, is really important. It's not always you know,
about the easy times, bringing new exciting innovations to market,
(11:47):
working with technology. You know, there's just so many different
skill sets in a bank.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, I mean, if you just look, there's a lot,
always a lot going on there is. We don't need
to get tour into it. But you're involved at the
political end as well.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Certainly there's plenty going on in New Zealand, but in Australia.
I always sort of make this observation that they're actually
even tougher on the banks over there. I think in
terms of the way the media gets stuck into banks
and the robustness of the debate over there is pretty intense.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
How did you find all that?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I think I think that's Australia generally, to be honest,
I don't think that's specific to the banking sector. I
think there's a lot of scrutiny in Australia the media.
I mean, you've got some pretty famous mastheads over in Australia,
owned by some pretty famous people, and the scrutiny is high.
And would I would say most industries would say that
(12:37):
the scrutiny is high on them, not just banking.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Sure, I wanted to ask because you'd had that experience
in Australia. You know, do you think Australians have a
different attitude to money than Kiwi's. You know, we've seen
as fairly similar personalities, but maybe Australians are a bit
bolder and brasher.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And yeah, I think there's some similarities. I think one
thing that I'm really envious of though, when I think
about Australia is the superannu right part of that system.
I think the ability to help people save for their futures,
and then the ability of those organizations to invest those moneies.
You know, well, boy, I think that's really setting up
(13:15):
the country for success. So I would call out that
as being something that's very positive about the Australian system.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I mean often New Zealanders are looking across the Tasman
looking at higher wages, higher productivity, and you know, feeling
a bit jealous. We can look at the iron ore
or whatever. But you know, it seems to me that
that strength and the financial sector, which is sort of
underpinned by that savings regime, must be a huge factor
in Australia's ability to sort of weather some of the
(13:44):
ups and downs a bit better than you.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I mean, it's a bigger economy, you know, it's got
those sort of and it has natural advantages obviously that
are really important for powering up the economy. But you
know a lot of my friends will say, oh, you know,
these great wages over there, there's a lot of tax
over there too, I don't think, and I think that's
a very important dynamic. A lot of New Zealanders want
the benefits of the infrastructure that they see in Australia,
(14:08):
but they don't like the idea of the tax that
actually has to pay for that. Yeah, so you know
when you go over there and you're paying stamp duty
on a lot of things. Yeah, so you can't have
your cake and eat it too. You have to decide there.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And obviously it's a hard call to make for someone
about a compulsory souper. I think Paul Keating did it
in Australia. But it's it's saying well, no, you're going
to pay a bit more now, and businesses are going
to pay a bit more now and it might hurt,
but we'll have some trillions yes later on.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yes, I agree, it is a very difficult thing to introduce.
But again, you know, you can't move forward without making
some of these, you know, the tougher decisions that set
you up for the future.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
I suppose I better ask this because I'll get in
trouble if I don't. But do you think New Zealand
is well served by the Australian owned banks? What do
you make of the sort of controversy around the idea
that we don't have enough competition or that we don't
have enough control of our own banking sector.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Look, I think there's some absolute benefits for being owned
by large Australian banks, and I think those are not
well understood, and I try and explain them as much
as I can. Firstly, you know, access in capital markets,
and because you know New Zealanders like to borrow more
than they save, ASP's going to go offshore and raise
billions of dollars in the open markets. And you know,
(15:29):
having the Australian owned banks behind you is an important
dynamic there and that adds real value to the New
Zealand marketplace. In my mind. The other things would be
just the level of investment that the larger banks can
make in Australia means that we get huge benefits of
things like cybersecurity, for example, so we're able to tap
(15:50):
into the technological amazing capability again that I believe has
real value. So a lot of benefits, I would say,
but bring on the competition.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Sure, okay, I've got a few sort of quick fire
questions here. What would you say, is the poorest you
ever been?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I think, as I sort of alluded to growing up
at home, we were in a real financial difficulty.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, yeah, So that was a sense of knowing that
maybe other kids had some more money going on in
the household.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I was I remember going up to the dairy. Didn't
have any food in the house, and we had a
whole bunch of bottles and you know how you could
go and take has shown my age could take glass
bottles up to the dairy and you could stop them
out for something.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Well yeah, no, So I remember dinner that night was
taking the glass bottles up to the deery and getting
some sausages and the other bits and bobs, and it
was dinner.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So that is pretty close to the line, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Tricky times?
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, yeah, tough.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
You've already answered really this spind are you're a spender
or a saver, But do you sort of feel like
you're naturally good with money or is it?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
I guess that's as you say.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Come from that background, I would say mum's early focus
on saving was really positive. But I would say understanding
more about financial how to manage your financial affairs through
being in a bank absolutely has been beneficial. So you know,
when I went into banking over in Australia and I
learned this whole thing about compulsory super I'm like, why
(17:21):
was I not doing that earlier? You know, things like that, Yeah,
shape you learn a lot part from being in a bank.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So if you had to pick a piece of advice
to give people listening just to sort of have a
better sense of finances and money, what would you be
your top piece of advice for people?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, get some advice actually, and there are so many
places to get some great help for managing your financial affairs,
and don't pick it all off at once. You can
actually make some small, just small changes that can really
make a difference. So, you know, we'll talk about at ASP.
You know, our customers have saved millions and millions of
(18:00):
dollars through Save the Change. It's a tiny way that
you can create a good habit to start getting some
money in a separate account.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, I always sort of ask, what's what's the most
indulgent purchase you've ever made?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I feel like anything to do with a house. I
think the house seems to be this emotional excuse for
I don't know, creating a really nice home.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
I think is a sack a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
They do sack a lot of money, And so when
you're doing a renovation and you can kind of choose
between different things, I think homes are a really important
place so sure.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I mean, coming from a you know, that difficult background
you talked about, when you got say into deloy To
or into some of these management jobs, was there a
moment where you finally thought, oh, I've actually got a
bit of financial security and you felt like you could
splash out of it.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I felt like a millionaire when I started working my
first job. I've saved my letter. Yeah, my first you know,
I think it was my first proper job, and my
salary was twenty three thy five hundred and I just
thought i'd made it. Yeah, I really did, so, Yes,
it came with some financial freedom. So the first thing
that was on my list was a car. So yeah, nice,
(19:10):
So you are a car person. I'm becoming less of
a car person, I think.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I mean, I'm just got my first EV so I'm
really enjoying that.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I have to say, yeah, you know, similar note, but
other things that you still dream of buying but you
just haven't got there for whatever reason, time or they're
on your life goals purchase wise.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, I think. You know, we've got two young sons,
and for me, family holidays they're the best, my best
childhood memories, they're my best early adult memories. They're my
best parenting memories if you like. And so at the
top of my list for things A the home and
(19:50):
then B travel sure travel.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
With them, yeah, just and then I guess that is
finding the time to go for a decent length of time.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Absolutely, but you know, sometimes just small trips can be
fun as well. We've had plenty of long weekends supporting
the kids with sport or something that have been a
lot of fun as well.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
So yeah, yeah, it's sort of about I guess lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
But Prome Minister Christopher Luxen sort of I think he
slightly misunderstood the question personally, but he reckoned. He spent
sixty dollars a week on groceries when he was asked
last year in the election campaign, do you have a
big grocery shop? What kind of grocery shopper are you?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Okay, we spent a lot of money on food and
a couple of things there. I've got a rower and
a basketballer, so the bickeyball is six foot eight, rowers
six foot five. Food in our house is a.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Very big deal and it probably doesn't last long.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
It doesn't last very long. It flies out, and so
our food bill is I would just call it substantial.
And now they may not be living at home, but
we're still supporting them financially, so it's still substantial. But
the only thing I would say, though, is the our
food bill is coming down because we're eating just a
(20:59):
little bit less meet actually right, Yes, there things.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Up about lifestyle healthy. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Do you ever still imagine winning lotto?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I used to dream about that as a child, I
really did, and we used to watch it as a
family on team actually buy tickets or just dream When
I was young. Dad definitely did buy tickets, and I
used to dream non stuff about what I would do
with all that money. You know today I don't sort
of dream about that anymore so, but you know what,
(21:29):
we do buy a lot of tickets every now and then.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yeah, that's for fun.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, I ask it because you know, sometimes I sort
of imagine winning a smaller amount. I actually don't know
if I want to win a hundred million dollars or
something like that. It sort of kind of turns your
life upside down.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yes, in any of those stories.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Look the question here and you sort of answered it
through the other questions. But as making money important in itself,
or has that been a byproduct of the success.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
It's never about that, I think, and I always sort of,
you know, provide whoever are if anyone ever asks me
about that, I always go back to choose things that
you're passionate about and that you love doing. Don't go
and choose something because it pays. You know, you don't
want to be getting lots of money and then hating
(22:14):
your job every day, you know, so that that would
be awful. So and actually interesting fact for you, learning
good savings behaviors is five times more impactful than a
pay increase.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And the whole reason for that is because many people
go and get a pay increase and then just spend
that pay increase and so they're actually no better off
than they were before. And so savings habits are actually
the most important thing of all.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah. I mean, if I could give you the power
to be in charge of the country for the day,
prime minister for a day, is this something that you
would most want to do to sort of I guess,
transform New Zealand, deal with some social inequity and all
that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I mean, there's two very two long term things. You know.
We need to get education right and we need to
get housing rights. So those are two long term ones.
But if I chose something that was near term, easier
to do in my view and could really help with productivity,
I think we could really lean into digital identity as
(23:19):
a neighbor for the digital economy and to also to
improve this safety because at the moment we've got a
lot of issues with forwards and scams and you know,
and cyber issues.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So digital identity, you mean, how we.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Having a safe way. It's having a safe way for
people to have their information and then they can permission
it for someone.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
To use right.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, and that would also get rid of at the
moment for financial crime reasons. You know, everyone has to
be I d inveed a million times over by lots
of different businesses, and all of those businesses is a
collecting information. They're storing that information, They've got people undertaking
all of those activities. It's just really inefficient. So big
(24:08):
productivity when big safety improvement, that would be something near
term and practical.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
It's interesting how much anyone involved in banking I come
across seems to have to have become a real techi
these days. It really is at the cutting edge of
so much of our tech DISCUSSI.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Absolutely, Yeah, it's you know, these days, if you're involved
in a business like ours, you have to be you
really have to understand technology and how to harness it.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
So yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Mean, obviously, what we've been through in the last few
years has created this cost of living squeeze. We've seen
all this inflation has that created extra pressure on the
banking system in terms of how people are looking at it,
how concerned they are about what's going on. How do
you view banking's role in this whole sort of economic cycle.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, some of the really interesting things Before we think
about the recent cost of living pressures, one thing that's
been really helpful for a lot of people in New
Zealand is actually our debt levels have been more manageable,
and also the government support during COVID really we saw
(25:20):
a lot of balances and savings build up. So we
monitor financial wellbeing in an aggregated way across all of
our customers. And interestingly, if we have a look at
where New Zealanders are now, we're still at higher levels
than when we went into COVID, so we've got higher
financial wellbeing generally than pre COVID. And another sort of
(25:44):
interesting element I guess is that the majority of our
customers are making big trade offs, by the way, So
it's not that people aren't making sacrifices. They definitely are.
But we were supporting around four hundred customers who need
real help. But these days we've got so many different
ways to help those customers. So we're actually surprised how
(26:09):
well Kiwi's and Kiwi businesses are fairing right now.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, we haven't seen the kind of like after the
GFC there was a big rise in mortgage defaults and
things like that. I mean, it's obviously tough. We're not
saying it isn't and it's building, but you know, just finally,
I guess, what, do you feel optimistic enough that New
Zealand can get through this cycle, whether you know, whether
it's November or February or next May or whenever we
(26:34):
sort of can say that it's turned.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah, I do feel optimistic about it. I mean, I'm
an optimist by nature, by the way, But again, I
feel optimistic why because I think we're working better together
than ever before. Debt levels are lower, and I think
that's really meant that there's more resilience in the system
than there was leading into the GFC as an example. Yeah,
(26:58):
and we've just got more ways of helping our customers.
So you know, we've got an enormous balance sheet at ASBA,
we've got a lot of runway in terms of supporting
our customers. Throw and in Factor and COVID we grew
a lot of market share and business lending because we
decided that we wanted to really support businesses through that period.
(27:19):
And so yeah, with a really strong balance sheet like
what we've got, we can help people.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
That's great, Victoria, thanks for that, and thanks for chatting
on Money Talks.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Ran.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Thank you Lim, thanks for listening to this episode of
Money Talks. If you want to get in touch, drop
me a line at Liam dot Dan at zme dot
co dot nz and you can read more from me
at inzidherld dot co dot nz. Thanks to my producer
Ethan Sills can sound engineer Lin McDonald. Follow Money Talks
(27:49):
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, with new
episodes available every Thursday.
I'm hi. I'm Liam Dan, New Zealand Herald Business Editor
at Large, and welcome to this episode of Money Talks.
This is a podcast about money, but we're not going
to tell you how to get rich, and we're not
going to try and pick the next interest rate move.
In this series, I'll be talking to interesting New Zealanders
about how money has shaped their lives and what they've
(00:27):
learned over the years. For today's podcast, I'm joined by
the CEO of ASB Bank and the country's highest paid
female CEO, Vittoria short Kuda Vittoria, Welcome to Money Talks.
Sure lamb that highest paid title. We threw it in
the intro there. You know, is that something that bothers
you or do you feel sort of proud to have
achieved that?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It's definitely not something I think about actually a lot,
or even if at all. You know, the days are
just filled with other things that just feel important and
so I don't tend to think about that. But the
only thing I would say is, you know, there's a
lot of commentary around women and women in leadership positions,
and it's certainly nice to have some of my female colleagues,
(01:10):
you know, reach out and sort of recognize it as
a positive thing.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
So yeah, yea, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I mean it's an unusual thing when you get to
a certain level of success in business, something that we
don't usually talk about. Suddenly you're you know, it's published
to material, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, Look, let's let's jump back a bit and talk
a bit more about money growing up. What were the
first memories you have of money and holding money in
your hand?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hmm okay, so this is going to sound like a
plug for a SB but it is not. It's just
I do remember taking my little ASB Savings book to
Coe Primary School, rowent with my five or ten cents,
depending on I don't know how good I'd been, I
guess for the week and depositing money, and that is
my earliest memory of cash physically in my hands. And
(01:58):
also it came with lot of advice from my mother.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Ah yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So do you think you know you've had that sort
of sense of being a savor instilled in you from me?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Absolutely? Mum. You know, we had a lot of we
had a lot of financial difficulty in my family and
Mum was very focused on saving money, so she encouraged
us really early on to basically do two things, work
and save wow. And so yeah, so first job at
ten never looked back.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah. So what did your parents do growing up?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, so a mum was a teacher and my dad
had a small business, right, and it was the small
business side of things that was really problematic and difficult.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
And was that through the economic challenges the time kind
of thing, or there's a good changes in New Zealand
and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's kind of hard to know when you're young and
growing up exactly what causes what you know, you listen
to your parents talk around the kitchen table, I guess,
and sometimes it's hard to make heads or tails of it.
But the thing that I really learned pretty qui is
how destabilizing it is and how much emotional pressure and
(03:06):
stress from money decisions and the things that kind of
went from there that happened in our family. And so
really early on it was less about what was going
on in the economy or the environment or the business,
and it was a lot more around the emotional.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
As a child.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
As a child, Yeah, and so you're growing up in
the whitehadow.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
No, actually I was in Auckland, but went to university
in Waco.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I see that.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, of course, yes, did you have one of those
little yellow yellowplants?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I did. Yeah, we had a few, and I possibly
could have tucked into them from time to time when
I shouldn't have been. You know, that was half the
fun of how many money bugs?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, did you get pocket money or are you working
for the pocket money?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Working? So so we didn't tend to I think, you know,
the family had a belief that everyone just had to
pitch in and you don't get paid for pitching in.
Not in my household growing up, So we sort of
divide and conquering all the jobs and get those done.
And yeah, I started working when I was ten with
my brother and we shared a paper round. So it
(04:08):
was more saving from money that we earned than anything else.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, and obviously you're saving some of that by the
sound of it. But were the things you saved up for?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
What were you interested in to spend it on in
those days?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah? Interesting, So again you influence from my mum was
in the spend half save half mode, and so we
didn't earn that much, so that the spending typically because
we picked our papers up from the local dairy. The
spending typically went into Lolly's at the dairy, and the
saving it was actually I was never ever saving for
anything in particular. I was always saving because financial independence
(04:44):
mattered more to me than anything else, just because of
the family situation.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So having that buffer, knowing the money absolutely freedom yep.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Sure yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
And so at school did that sort of I guess
understanding of money and finances and where your career has
now gone. Did that affect choices at school? Did you
study economics and things?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah? So money never impacted my subject selection. What impacted
that more than anything else is what I enjoyed, right,
And I'm sort of a believer. And the more you
enjoy something, the more you work at it. The more
you work at it, the better you get. The better
you get, the more you enjoy it, and it just
sort of becomes a bit of a filling prophecy. And
so the subjects that that I was good at were
(05:24):
economics and accounting.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Right, so leaned into them I did.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Were there other things that like hobbies and things that
could have been a different pathway.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So I've shared this story before. If I wasn't a
bankrut be a farmer, right? I love the outdoors, and
I just think that's one of New Zealand's one of
the beautiful parts about the country. There are so many
mountains to hike, beaches to enjoy, you know, it's a
big part of I think kiwis and who we are
and what we do.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
But at university, you did a Bachelor of Management Studies,
Is that right, with accounting finance? So you really were
immersed in that world from the get go.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yes. And how I sort of started down that path
actually was Dad's influence. He sort of looked at my
grades and what I was enjoying at school, and he
made a couple of suggestions around, you know, what I
might want to study. And one of those things that
he said to me that I kind of grabbed onto
was if you choose accounting, you can work anywhere in
(06:22):
the world. And I thought that sounds exciting. So that
sort of started me off down an accounting path. But interestingly,
I started with accounting, then I did my first finance paper.
I loved the finance paper, so I kept doing more
of those. Then I did a strategy paper. Loved that,
so I kept from going down, picking up a whole
lot more strategy papers and Weirdly, my career started to
(06:46):
mirror that, right, it started work. So it's all about
following the things that yeah are doing. Was your first
job out of UNI, was that Deloitte, that's right, doing auditing? Yeah, yes,
and so that was that was the more of the accounting, absolutely,
(07:07):
and the travel the world out of thinking that's right,
which I didn't do.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Right, So you didn't didn't get a post in Singapore
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I didn't. Actually, I was really enjoying the work that
I was doing in New Zealand. So I stayed in
New Zealand for quite some time in my early career.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
You know, sometimes I asked people who go into Deloitt
to one of the Big four, you know, you weren't
tempted to sort of you can build a whole career
through those that they look after people and they carry
them right through. You weren't sort of sucked into the
machine of the of the accounting world like that.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Well what happened was first off, fantastic firm, incredible opportunities,
and so one of those was I quite quickly moved
into the corporate finance team. Really enjoyed that work. So
at the time we were doing commercial litigations, expert evidence
for commercial litigation, due diligence, valuations of businesses and so
(07:54):
M and A kind of activity. And I loved the
M and A work I was doing, and that's when
I decided to go in house M and A for
Carter Hot Harvey.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
So again I was just sort of following my nose
in terms of the work that I most enjoyed.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, that's an interesting company.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
What era of Carter Holt were you in.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Chris Ladell was to sell yeah, yeah, and so when did.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I'm just trying to think when Graham Heart got involved?
Was he I had left by the time, right, and
that was sort of a would have been a will
when hitting at that point, that's right.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
So I think that was because I left card Holt
in two thousand and two, that's when I went to Australia,
so I think Graham came, yeah, not long after that.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, but I remember Chris the deal. We were dealing
with a wall of wood, and yes, you know, there
was a lot of challenges even then, you know, and
just getting getting the mix.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
So I guess that's that's a very real world, kind
of gritty sort of thing to keep your teeth and fantastic.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So I started doing as I say in house M
and A. So that the buying and the selling of
the businesses, and there was quite a lot of that
occurring at that time under Cross's leadership. But then I
I always wanted to stay on and see how those
businesses went. So I always became fascinated in the strategy
behind the merger or the divestment, and so I wanted
(09:12):
to get more into rather than buying and selling businesses,
I wanted to get more into understanding how they ran.
So I asked if I could get out of the
M and A team, and I went into the swam
milling division and terrific role there. It's as great as
you get. And you know, it's deconstruction manufacturing that's really
(09:32):
challenging work. And you know, and also saw that sort
of the ups and the downs, the periods of making
cash losses, making difficult decisions like shutting down plants which
could be the only main employer in a small town.
I saw how people led through that. So it was
my first foray into business business decisions.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
High level, I mean, you know, management at the reasonably
high level. There where you're actually having to make big calls.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Absolutely, and it really a lot of fire.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, So how long did you stay before you moved
into banking?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
So that was I'm going to say two thousand and
I'm gonna give my dates right a wee while back,
So two thousand and two. I stayed there until then.
And then my husband, he's a Kiwi, he's off a
farm down south of Auckland, and he had finished what
he was doing, sold his business and we decided that
we'd go to Australia. And when we got to Australia,
(10:32):
he was running a business over there and I honestly
was looking through ads thinking, I know, I don't want
to go back into m and A. I want to
stay in business, and there was just an ad for
the Commonwealth Bank of Australia. They were looking for someone
who had my skill set, and I thought, well, it's
a big company, it's got lots of different divisions, lots
(10:54):
of opportunities, and so I'll give it a go.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, and it's obviously worked out. You've stayed a long
time in banking, then you know it must be must
be twenty years, more more than many years, and to
have that sort of success in the banking sector. Something's
obviously gelled. You know, what would you say is the
reason for your success in that particular industry.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
You've got to love what you do. I think that's
the starting point with everything. And then people sometimes look
at you a bit sideways. It's like, you love banking
and I do genuinely likes people.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
The reputation is it might be a bit gray, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
It's not that at all. It's firstly, I just think
about the impact that we can have and you know,
powering up economies, helping businesses, helping people through the difficult times,
you know, is really important. It's not always you know,
about the easy times, bringing new exciting innovations to market,
(11:47):
working with technology. You know, there's just so many different
skill sets in a bank.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, I mean, if you just look, there's a lot,
always a lot going on there is. We don't need
to get tour into it. But you're involved at the
political end as well.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Certainly there's plenty going on in New Zealand, but in Australia.
I always sort of make this observation that they're actually
even tougher on the banks over there. I think in
terms of the way the media gets stuck into banks
and the robustness of the debate over there is pretty intense.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
How did you find all that?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I think I think that's Australia generally, to be honest,
I don't think that's specific to the banking sector. I
think there's a lot of scrutiny in Australia the media.
I mean, you've got some pretty famous mastheads over in Australia,
owned by some pretty famous people, and the scrutiny is high.
And would I would say most industries would say that
(12:37):
the scrutiny is high on them, not just banking.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Sure, I wanted to ask because you'd had that experience
in Australia. You know, do you think Australians have a
different attitude to money than Kiwi's. You know, we've seen
as fairly similar personalities, but maybe Australians are a bit
bolder and brasher.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And yeah, I think there's some similarities. I think one
thing that I'm really envious of though, when I think
about Australia is the superannu right part of that system.
I think the ability to help people save for their futures,
and then the ability of those organizations to invest those moneies.
You know, well, boy, I think that's really setting up
(13:15):
the country for success. So I would call out that
as being something that's very positive about the Australian system.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I mean often New Zealanders are looking across the Tasman
looking at higher wages, higher productivity, and you know, feeling
a bit jealous. We can look at the iron ore
or whatever. But you know, it seems to me that
that strength and the financial sector, which is sort of
underpinned by that savings regime, must be a huge factor
in Australia's ability to sort of weather some of the
(13:44):
ups and downs a bit better than you.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I mean, it's a bigger economy, you know, it's got
those sort of and it has natural advantages obviously that
are really important for powering up the economy. But you
know a lot of my friends will say, oh, you know,
these great wages over there, there's a lot of tax
over there too, I don't think, and I think that's
a very important dynamic. A lot of New Zealanders want
the benefits of the infrastructure that they see in Australia,
(14:08):
but they don't like the idea of the tax that
actually has to pay for that. Yeah, so you know
when you go over there and you're paying stamp duty
on a lot of things. Yeah, so you can't have
your cake and eat it too. You have to decide there.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And obviously it's a hard call to make for someone
about a compulsory souper. I think Paul Keating did it
in Australia. But it's it's saying well, no, you're going
to pay a bit more now, and businesses are going
to pay a bit more now and it might hurt,
but we'll have some trillions yes later on.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yes, I agree, it is a very difficult thing to introduce.
But again, you know, you can't move forward without making
some of these, you know, the tougher decisions that set
you up for the future.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
I suppose I better ask this because I'll get in
trouble if I don't. But do you think New Zealand
is well served by the Australian owned banks? What do
you make of the sort of controversy around the idea
that we don't have enough competition or that we don't
have enough control of our own banking sector.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Look, I think there's some absolute benefits for being owned
by large Australian banks, and I think those are not
well understood, and I try and explain them as much
as I can. Firstly, you know, access in capital markets,
and because you know New Zealanders like to borrow more
than they save, ASP's going to go offshore and raise
billions of dollars in the open markets. And you know,
(15:29):
having the Australian owned banks behind you is an important
dynamic there and that adds real value to the New
Zealand marketplace. In my mind. The other things would be
just the level of investment that the larger banks can
make in Australia means that we get huge benefits of
things like cybersecurity, for example, so we're able to tap
(15:50):
into the technological amazing capability again that I believe has
real value. So a lot of benefits, I would say,
but bring on the competition.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Sure, okay, I've got a few sort of quick fire
questions here. What would you say, is the poorest you
ever been?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I think, as I sort of alluded to growing up
at home, we were in a real financial difficulty.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, yeah, So that was a sense of knowing that
maybe other kids had some more money going on in
the household.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I was I remember going up to the dairy. Didn't
have any food in the house, and we had a
whole bunch of bottles and you know how you could
go and take has shown my age could take glass
bottles up to the dairy and you could stop them
out for something.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Well yeah, no, So I remember dinner that night was
taking the glass bottles up to the deery and getting
some sausages and the other bits and bobs, and it
was dinner.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So that is pretty close to the line, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Tricky times?
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, yeah, tough.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
You've already answered really this spind are you're a spender
or a saver, But do you sort of feel like
you're naturally good with money or is it?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
I guess that's as you say.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Come from that background, I would say mum's early focus
on saving was really positive. But I would say understanding
more about financial how to manage your financial affairs through
being in a bank absolutely has been beneficial. So you know,
when I went into banking over in Australia and I
learned this whole thing about compulsory super I'm like, why
(17:21):
was I not doing that earlier? You know, things like that, Yeah,
shape you learn a lot part from being in a bank.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So if you had to pick a piece of advice
to give people listening just to sort of have a
better sense of finances and money, what would you be
your top piece of advice for people?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, get some advice actually, and there are so many
places to get some great help for managing your financial affairs,
and don't pick it all off at once. You can
actually make some small, just small changes that can really
make a difference. So, you know, we'll talk about at ASP.
You know, our customers have saved millions and millions of
(18:00):
dollars through Save the Change. It's a tiny way that
you can create a good habit to start getting some
money in a separate account.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, I always sort of ask, what's what's the most
indulgent purchase you've ever made?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I feel like anything to do with a house. I
think the house seems to be this emotional excuse for
I don't know, creating a really nice home.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
I think is a sack a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
They do sack a lot of money, And so when
you're doing a renovation and you can kind of choose
between different things, I think homes are a really important
place so sure.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I mean, coming from a you know, that difficult background
you talked about, when you got say into deloy To
or into some of these management jobs, was there a
moment where you finally thought, oh, I've actually got a
bit of financial security and you felt like you could
splash out of it.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I felt like a millionaire when I started working my
first job. I've saved my letter. Yeah, my first you know,
I think it was my first proper job, and my
salary was twenty three thy five hundred and I just
thought i'd made it. Yeah, I really did, so, Yes,
it came with some financial freedom. So the first thing
that was on my list was a car. So yeah, nice,
(19:10):
So you are a car person. I'm becoming less of
a car person, I think.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I mean, I'm just got my first EV so I'm
really enjoying that.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
I have to say, yeah, you know, similar note, but
other things that you still dream of buying but you
just haven't got there for whatever reason, time or they're
on your life goals purchase wise.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, I think. You know, we've got two young sons,
and for me, family holidays they're the best, my best
childhood memories, they're my best early adult memories. They're my
best parenting memories if you like. And so at the
top of my list for things A the home and
(19:50):
then B travel sure travel.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
With them, yeah, just and then I guess that is
finding the time to go for a decent length of time.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Absolutely, but you know, sometimes just small trips can be
fun as well. We've had plenty of long weekends supporting
the kids with sport or something that have been a
lot of fun as well.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
So yeah, yeah, it's sort of about I guess lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
But Prome Minister Christopher Luxen sort of I think he
slightly misunderstood the question personally, but he reckoned. He spent
sixty dollars a week on groceries when he was asked
last year in the election campaign, do you have a
big grocery shop? What kind of grocery shopper are you?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Okay, we spent a lot of money on food and
a couple of things there. I've got a rower and
a basketballer, so the bickeyball is six foot eight, rowers
six foot five. Food in our house is a.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Very big deal and it probably doesn't last long.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
It doesn't last very long. It flies out, and so
our food bill is I would just call it substantial.
And now they may not be living at home, but
we're still supporting them financially, so it's still substantial. But
the only thing I would say, though, is the our
food bill is coming down because we're eating just a
(20:59):
little bit less meet actually right, Yes, there things.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Up about lifestyle healthy. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Do you ever still imagine winning lotto?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I used to dream about that as a child, I
really did, and we used to watch it as a
family on team actually buy tickets or just dream When
I was young. Dad definitely did buy tickets, and I
used to dream non stuff about what I would do
with all that money. You know today I don't sort
of dream about that anymore so, but you know what,
(21:29):
we do buy a lot of tickets every now and then.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yeah, that's for fun.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, I ask it because you know, sometimes I sort
of imagine winning a smaller amount. I actually don't know
if I want to win a hundred million dollars or
something like that. It sort of kind of turns your
life upside down.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yes, in any of those stories.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Look the question here and you sort of answered it
through the other questions. But as making money important in itself,
or has that been a byproduct of the success.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
It's never about that, I think, and I always sort of,
you know, provide whoever are if anyone ever asks me
about that, I always go back to choose things that
you're passionate about and that you love doing. Don't go
and choose something because it pays. You know, you don't
want to be getting lots of money and then hating
(22:14):
your job every day, you know, so that that would
be awful. So and actually interesting fact for you, learning
good savings behaviors is five times more impactful than a
pay increase.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And the whole reason for that is because many people
go and get a pay increase and then just spend
that pay increase and so they're actually no better off
than they were before. And so savings habits are actually
the most important thing of all.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah. I mean, if I could give you the power
to be in charge of the country for the day,
prime minister for a day, is this something that you
would most want to do to sort of I guess,
transform New Zealand, deal with some social inequity and all
that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I mean, there's two very two long term things. You know.
We need to get education right and we need to
get housing rights. So those are two long term ones.
But if I chose something that was near term, easier
to do in my view and could really help with productivity,
I think we could really lean into digital identity as
(23:19):
a neighbor for the digital economy and to also to
improve this safety because at the moment we've got a
lot of issues with forwards and scams and you know,
and cyber issues.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So digital identity, you mean, how we.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Having a safe way. It's having a safe way for
people to have their information and then they can permission
it for someone.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
To use right.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, and that would also get rid of at the
moment for financial crime reasons. You know, everyone has to
be I d inveed a million times over by lots
of different businesses, and all of those businesses is a
collecting information. They're storing that information, They've got people undertaking
all of those activities. It's just really inefficient. So big
(24:08):
productivity when big safety improvement, that would be something near
term and practical.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
It's interesting how much anyone involved in banking I come
across seems to have to have become a real techi
these days. It really is at the cutting edge of
so much of our tech DISCUSSI.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Absolutely, Yeah, it's you know, these days, if you're involved
in a business like ours, you have to be you
really have to understand technology and how to harness it.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
So yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Mean, obviously, what we've been through in the last few
years has created this cost of living squeeze. We've seen
all this inflation has that created extra pressure on the
banking system in terms of how people are looking at it,
how concerned they are about what's going on. How do
you view banking's role in this whole sort of economic cycle.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, some of the really interesting things Before we think
about the recent cost of living pressures, one thing that's
been really helpful for a lot of people in New
Zealand is actually our debt levels have been more manageable,
and also the government support during COVID really we saw
(25:20):
a lot of balances and savings build up. So we
monitor financial wellbeing in an aggregated way across all of
our customers. And interestingly, if we have a look at
where New Zealanders are now, we're still at higher levels
than when we went into COVID, so we've got higher
financial wellbeing generally than pre COVID. And another sort of
(25:44):
interesting element I guess is that the majority of our
customers are making big trade offs, by the way, So
it's not that people aren't making sacrifices. They definitely are.
But we were supporting around four hundred customers who need
real help. But these days we've got so many different
ways to help those customers. So we're actually surprised how
(26:09):
well Kiwi's and Kiwi businesses are fairing right now.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, we haven't seen the kind of like after the
GFC there was a big rise in mortgage defaults and
things like that. I mean, it's obviously tough. We're not
saying it isn't and it's building, but you know, just finally,
I guess, what, do you feel optimistic enough that New
Zealand can get through this cycle, whether you know, whether
it's November or February or next May or whenever we
(26:34):
sort of can say that it's turned.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah, I do feel optimistic about it. I mean, I'm
an optimist by nature, by the way, But again, I
feel optimistic why because I think we're working better together
than ever before. Debt levels are lower, and I think
that's really meant that there's more resilience in the system
than there was leading into the GFC as an example. Yeah,
(26:58):
and we've just got more ways of helping our customers.
So you know, we've got an enormous balance sheet at ASBA,
we've got a lot of runway in terms of supporting
our customers. Throw and in Factor and COVID we grew
a lot of market share and business lending because we
decided that we wanted to really support businesses through that period.
(27:19):
And so yeah, with a really strong balance sheet like
what we've got, we can help people.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
That's great, Victoria, thanks for that, and thanks for chatting
on Money Talks.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Ran.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Thank you Lim, thanks for listening to this episode of
Money Talks. If you want to get in touch, drop
me a line at Liam dot Dan at zme dot
co dot nz and you can read more from me
at inzidherld dot co dot nz. Thanks to my producer
Ethan Sills can sound engineer Lin McDonald. Follow Money Talks
(27:49):
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, with new
episodes available every Thursday.
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