September 4, 2024 • 39 mins
On this episode, Murray is joined by Paris Olympic gold medalist, kiwi high jumper, Hamish Kerr. Deaks asks Hamish what really happened before the jump-off for gold in Paris, the pressure of qualifying and why he ended up in high jump.
Murray Deaker has been interviewing the biggest names in sport for 40 years. 'Murray Deaker’s Sporting Lives' will interview legends of sport, uncovering their stories. Full of memories, theories, and opinion. And no nonsense! 'Murray Deaker’s Sporting Lives' podcast brought to you by Gold Sport.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Gold Sport presents Murray Deeker's Sporting Lives with Callaway, the
leading manufacturer of premium golf clubs, balls and accessories worldwide.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi Murray Deeker here, Welcome to my podcast, Murray Deeker's
Sported Lives. During my career, I've spent forty years interviewing
the biggest names in sport and I'm thrilled to bring
you this podcast talking to sporting legends and giving you
a look into their world to hear their memories, their
(00:31):
stories and some opinion too. Today, a man who gave
us one of the magic moments at the Paris Olympics,
a real nail biter as he jumped his way to
gold in the most dramatic fashion in a jump off.
He won it against the American Shelby McEwen. This week's guest,
(00:54):
the Kiwi high jumper Hamish Curve.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Gold Sport presents Murray Dieker's Sporting Lives with Callaway.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Once the Olympics were over, I asked a number of
sporting people who they would like to know more about
and the answer was clear, Hamish curR Some pointed out
that we had not won a gold medal at track
and field athletics since John Walker at Montreal. Others said
they wanted to hear from a bloke whose celebration after
(01:26):
the winning jump was so memorable that they reckon he
was different and interesting. Hamish is still in the Northern Hemisphere.
Are you aware, Hamish of the level of interest in
you in New Zealand?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yeah, I'm a little bit aware of it. I think
obviously to get a track in field medal of any
color is such a massive thing, especially without history in
the sport. But I don't think I'm fully going to
understand it until I get home, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Well I'll tell you what, You'll be a hero wherever
you go because people it and you know, we're always
meant to be humble and or sharks when we win something.
So many people said I'd love to do a victory
lap like that. Did that just happen spontaneously?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah? Well, so it was quite funny. There was javelin
going on on the other side of the field, and
so I knew that there was sort of a few
spears getting hurled down our end gradually, and I was
sort of keeping eye on how their progress was going
because I was keen to jump onto the field, and
I did see that had finished about five minutes before
we ended. We ended our competition, and so yeah, so
(02:36):
once I, once I cleared that last bar, I just
I just made a bee line for it and thought,
you know, why not?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, and why not let's talk the event itself first. Well,
you concerned that you'd had two misses during qualifying and
one more missing you have been out?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah? Yeah, the short answer is yes. I I have
to say that those that twenty height, so the two
muscles in the one clearance was it was definitely the
hardest of the whole competition. I feel like that was
definitely the deepest that I aimed to dig into like
my mental game and into my and to really trust
(03:14):
in my process. And then once once I atu did
those that clearance, I feel like the rest was almost easy.
I feel like that just gave me the freedom to
express all the great stuff I've got and the rest
was just almost a precession after that.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I don't know who the commentator was, and I don't
think he was a key, but he said the spoke
needs to wake up. You've probably heard that. That was
was what was said because they had viewed you as
a real favorite in the event, is the qualifying one
of the hardest things about the event.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah, it's well, I mean it's been too I think
for me it definitely has been. And so I made
the final in Tokyo and that was my first kind
of major event that I had not ever done. But
since then I had two World Chaps for I didn't
make the final, and so I think for me, qualifying
has definitely been sort of a bit of a bogie event.
We don't do a lot of qualifyings on circuit. We
(04:09):
never do them in New Zealand. We need to do
them in the professional league, so it's it's something that
I think in the back of my mind I had
a bit of PTSD from all the other competitions that
I've done where I wasn't making the final, and so yeah,
I think that was sort of a weird kind of
mindset to be trying to go in and instead of
trying to think about trying to beat everybody, it's it's
sort of a more of a surviving, advanced kind of mindset.
(04:31):
So yeah, it definitely was was hard. We don't get
a lot of chances to practice that, and so that
was why for me it was definitely the much harder
of the two competitions.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Outline the drama of the jump off between yourself, McEwen
and of course the then Olympic champion version.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, it was, it was cool. It was yeah, it
sort of was history repeating itself a wee bit. Tokyo,
Barsham and Timburry, the Italian and the Qatari both shared
the gold medal when they had the opportunity to go
to a jump off, and that was unprecedented at the time,
like it had never happened before. We didn't even realize
that that was an option. Usually, when you're on your
(05:15):
type for first place, you just have a jump off,
which is when you have one more attempt at the
height that you're at and then you go down two
centimeters and have one attempt at each of those fights
until someone clears and someonelesses it. But they decided that
that was not something that they wanted to do in Tokyo,
and so that was seen as a real kind of
(05:36):
landmark moment for the Olympic movement and sort of you know,
playing sport together and all the sort of fitness and stuff,
and that was that was so amazing for the sport
as well, because I think it really put it on
the mat. Like a lot of people were talking about it,
a lot of people sort of voted at one in
the moments of the Games. But and that being said,
I don't think it was going to happen again. And
we talked about it at length going into Paris, saying well,
(06:00):
you know, if you are in a jump off, what
would you do? And the funny thing is that those
sort of conversations you have are purely theoretical, because the
chances of having two Olympic Finals end in a jump
off is it's almost impossible. I've only been a part
of two competitions ever where that's gone to jump off,
and both of those have been the Olympic Finals. No
(06:23):
other competition that I do, and you know, I'll do
twenty competitions a year, No other competition goes has ever
gone to jump off that I've experienced, and so for
that to happen was it was almost impossibly and possibly
low chances of it happening, And so yeah, it was
quite quite funny. Really, it was almost like the alternative
ending to the Tokyo Final that a lot of people
(06:44):
wanted and a lot of people had sort of hoped for,
And so when me and Shelby both had the opportunity
to decide whether we wanted to jump or not, we
both just took it in a heartbeat. We both decided
that it was something that would be awesome to to do,
given that it hadn't happened last time, and something that
also would be amazing to sort of add to the
(07:05):
sport in our own little story.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Well, I'm pleased that's cleared up, because there'd been so
many different versions of what happened. But what happened was
you both decided, Hey, we're going to have a jump off.
Is that the story?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, Yeah, it's funny. I think the reason that people
well one of the reasons people have sort of thought
that there was differ differing outcomes to what actually happened
was because I actually didn't know if I was first,
equal or first outright. I had kind of miscaped in
my head where I was standing in the order, And
(07:40):
so when we're at two thirty eight, we're attempting our
last attempts before the jump off, I was actually going
back and forth with the chief official to try and
work out what placing I was currently in, and so
I think a lot of people in the crowd, especially
thought that I was discussing whether I could jump off
or whether I was allowed to share the medal, which
(08:02):
was not the case. I was just trying to work
out what position I was in, and so that kind
of I think spurred a couple of people thinking, Oh,
he's trying to you know, he's trying to work out
some some different tactics and stuff. And literally all it
was is that I just miscounted my head the number
of jumps that we've both done, and yeah, once the
(08:23):
once my last attempt at two thirty eight happens, I
just walked over to Shelby, he was sitting there with
the officials, and I just locked in the eyes. I said,
let's jump, and he just shook his you know, he
nodded his head and agreed, and off we went.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Before that took place, the then Olympic champion Barsham, he
decided to jump a lot higher and go past both
of you. Was that a gamble, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It definitely was. He he had had two messes of
two thirty six and then he passed his last attempt
to go to two thirty eight to try and get
a first tempt apparents, which would have put him back
into the game. But at the same time, I mean that,
you know, there's so many different kind of tactics to
high jump, and one of those tactics being that if
he had cleared two thirty six on that third attempt,
(09:12):
he still would have been in third given the fact
that both me and Shelby had already cleared. So for
him it was kind of like almost saving his energy
and really just putting his eggs in one basket. But
at the same time, like if he had cleared, he
would have gotten three more attempts, but he still would
have been behind. So I think that that's sort of
what he did. But at the same time, like you know,
(09:32):
Bastroom's getting older now, he's done four Olympics and middled
at all four of them, So that's that's just such
an amazing kind of history that he's got, and so
to be able to even come away with the bronze
for him at this Olympics, given how long he's been
around for is just yeah, it's spectacular.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
I've read, well, you've got very clear memories of Hamish
Carter winning a gold at Athens. You're seven years old.
Is that true, and did it inspire you?
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, yeah, it definitely is. I remember watching Athens that
was kind of the first, the first Olympics that I
probably understood what was going on a little bit more
and started sort of understanding the context of the whole situation.
And yeah, I have really find memories of Hans Carter
and his little crop cop running running for the gold,
(10:20):
and Devon Doherty coming in close behind him to come second.
And I think that for me, I was never connected
to try film was it was never a sport that
I played when I was younger or was interested in doing.
But that sort of seeing the silver fern and the
black singlet on the global stage coming across first and
just the celebration and the pride that that brought out
(10:42):
in the nation was something that made me feel really
good and something that I wanted to probably didn't want
to aspire to strictly in in an athletic point of
view when I was seven years old, but it definitely
made me think that, you know, there's some pretty inspiring
things out there that can really help other people when
and it could be something that I'd be pretty interested
(11:03):
in if I could continue in the future.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Gold sport Presidents, Murray, Digger's sporting lives with Callaway.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
A number of provinces claiming you as their home product Auckland, Manoa,
two Canterbury. Isn't the reality that you've been developed by
all three?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I'm a Kiwi through and through, That's what I like
to tell people. But no, yeah, I have moved around
the wee bit. I was born in Dunedin, grew up
in Auckland's, went to Union Parmy and then now live
in christ Church. But like you said, you know, there's
been some really key figures and all of those places
that have really helped me on my journey. So yeah,
(11:47):
I feel a very strong connection to to all of
those people in all those places, and feel very lucky
to have so much support along the way from all
those people.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You played a wide variety of sports when you were young.
When did you first start to think that you'd focus
on high jumping.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
That's a good question. I yeah, I played rugby, I
played football, I did a little bit across country running.
I did some athletics of course, And I suppose through
all of this the overarching got the overarching thing which
got me into and kept me into various sports. Was
(12:27):
my enjoyment charactor and also just the social side and
for me going to an all boys school and you know,
perhaps spending a little bit too much time in all
boys sports, athletics was a real draw card given that
it was it was much more co ed and there
was you know there there's a lot sort of a
(12:48):
lot more range of days off school and and a
lot of kind of events to go to. So for
me not being a really really top athlete who was
sort of in all the premier sports teams and can
travel heaps, like athletics was sort of almost this way
to be able to get a little bit of trouble
out of my sport, and so that was kind of
what got me into athletics. But at the same time,
I would do a lot of distance running in my
(13:10):
early days, so sort of through to about sixteen, I
was also trying to do fifteens and four hundreds and
eight hundreds and a little bit of hurdles, and yeah,
I think that that was also just because that was
sort of our history and the sport as New Zealanders,
and that was something that I was really trying to emulate.
But yeah, it would get to the end of the
day and I'd go and do a high jump and
(13:31):
beat everyone after having come sort of tenth from the
fifteen hundreds. So I think pretty quickly I realized that
the high jump was probably going to be more my thing,
But I don't think I really kind of believed that
I was able to do it, probably until I finished university,
and that was when I had kind of indicated I'd
had it indicated to me that I had some pretty
(13:52):
good potential, and I personally decided that I really wanted
to see what I could do in in my twenties
with the sport that I had good potential, and I
didn't really want to just leave it. At a point
where I was wondering what if I could sort of
imagine myself in the future just going man, I could
have been really good at that, but I sort of
(14:12):
didn't try because of you know, various other life things
that give in the way. So, yeah, just to be
able to just put it, put it to beer and
try for at least a few years, that was my
big goal in twenty eighteen when I moved to a
crash church, and yeah, I've just gone from strength strength
to strength since I think, you know, Tokyo for me
was probably the first time I realized that I really
was world class. And then from there I've just gotten
(14:35):
more and more confidence and a bitter and bitter team
and the development has just continued on a tradictory that
means that we're now here heaven and a chat about Olympic.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Gold, Well, there's a lot in there. Firstly, what degree
did you do?
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I did agricultural commerce with the major in economics.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Are you going to use that?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I have no immediate plans right but at some point
years and.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
The Tokyo Olympics, which I don't wan to brush over
because you know that's a big breakthrough for you, really
is a bit.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think you know, Tokyo is a
weird situation. We obviously had COVID pandemic in and around Tokyo,
so the game's got postponed once we had lockdowns, we
can traveled, competitions, There was all these sort of various
things which were pretty unpresced into as an athlete, as
you know, as everyone I had to deal with, and
(15:27):
so I think for me, being at the start of
my career, I probably didn't realize that that wasn't normal.
For me, it was just a big fun you know, like, oh,
you know it's changing. It's a year later now, and
I can just do another year of training and but
and get on with it. And you know, I think
I probably dealt with it quite well at the time,
But what it ultimately meant was that I didn't get
(15:48):
out into the world and competing against all the big
guys until I got to Tokyo. And that was a
big moment for me because at that stage, I had
seen all the guys jumping on TV. I'd watched all
the competitions, I'd watched all the YouTube videos and sort
of growing up supporting the sport and understanding the context
(16:09):
of all these great, great high jumpers. And then to
be actually in a stadium and su see them in
the flesh and share the track with them. That was
such a massive moment for my confidence because it felt normal.
It was weird. It was like I belonged there. It's
just a track at the end of the day. You know,
(16:30):
it looks amazing on TV, but at the end of
the day you can go down your local athletics track
and it's essentially the same plane. It's four hundred meters
it's rubber, there's a high jump man, there's there's upright,
there's there's a shop at circle, there's a grass and fields.
It's all the same. And so going into that stadium
and being able to kind of actually feel that for
myself it was real. It was something that I'd worked
(16:53):
towards and it was something that was really good at.
And so that was kind of for me a massive
confidence booster to know that not only do I belong,
but I could actually thrive in that environment.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Well, that came through because I had a look and
I see that in twenty twenty two, you competed in
thirteen Diamond League meets and you were only once outside
the top six. The question I've got is why did
you then redo your entire approach in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I think for me it's it's around why I do
the sport. I think that I was in a position
twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two where almost every single
competition I did, I jumped between about two twenty four
and two twenty seven, and there was the odds breakthrough
performance of the two thirty or two thirty one through
that time, but most of my competitions were two twenty five,
(17:48):
and I kind of got the sense that on tour
I was starting to be seen as the reliable journeyman
a little bit. It was kind of like I was.
At most comps, I was guaranteed to get about a
mid twenty jump, and that might get me between about
second and fourth, depending on how everyone else did. But
(18:08):
that wasn't what I wanted for my career. I wanted
to be the best I wanted to I wanted to
prove to myself that I could jump higher, and I
knew that I was capable of jumping higher. I knew
that a mid thirty to a two forty jump was
what was really capable for me, and so having not
kind of pushed that height up over a couple of years,
(18:30):
I decided that something needed to change. And the focus
changed from being a let's try and do a good
performance at every meet to let's try and do a
great performance twice a year, and then any other meat
that we do is revolving around getting those those big jumps,
(18:51):
and that's what we did. We changed a few things.
I juggled around my support team a little bit. My
head coach at the time moved into more of a
technical role, and I brought in a new guy to
sort of run the show, and with with him and
the rest of my team and myself, we just decided
that it was it was enough. We'd had enough in
(19:13):
terms of jumping good, and we wanted to really crack
into jumping great. And that's that's what we really worked
on the last couple of years.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So what were the things that made you jump higher?
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I think the probably hot like making I mean, first,
first and foremost physical. So so my physical capacity was
was always good, but it was never kind of tapped out,
and so we we brought in a strength conditioning specialist
(19:46):
who was able to really look at the needy gritty
and really understand that the intricacies of powder weight and
how to sort of strength train properly for for what
we needed. And so that that kind of got brought
in with with my strength condition coach. And then the
next thing was how do we how do we tailor
my technique so the way that I jump to be
(20:08):
good at two thirty and two thirty five and two
forty rather than through twenty two five to thirty, because
that was sort of where my technique was at that point.
And then and then it was also just around living
like an athlete more really just like I suppose, locking
into the fact that I needed to eat better, I
needed to recover better, I needed to just be so
(20:30):
much more kind of consummate with how I spent my time,
because I think that I was probably up till up
to twenty twenty three, I was I was doing well.
I was doing a lot of things I needed to do,
but I just wasn't doing them consistently enough. And so
it was just around just being really boring and doing
the exact same stuff every day, and just being sort
of very obsessed with the process rather than obsessing a
(20:52):
lot about the outcome.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
What should made the changes? How long did it take
to bid them down so that they were the things
that you executed? And I asked, this is a struggling
goalfer going through a bad patch where you know you
need the same technique all the time forget about the outcome,
think the process, and think the shot. Now.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Yeah, well, I'm going to premise this by saying I'm
struggling golfer twos, so it doesn't go across all my life.
But no, I think the thing was is that all
the tools were there. It wasn't a case of reinventing
the wheel for me in terms of the last few months,
it was more around what do you really trust? How
(21:39):
can you get the validation from yourself and from your
team that what you're doing is on the right track.
There's always going to be challenges, like things will always
challenge your processes and how you operate, and those challenges
come in injuries or bad performances or even just external
people asking you, questioning or you or pressuring you on
(22:01):
what you're doing and why you do it. But I
think for me it was just I had the sense
of peace that we had worked really hard and all
the things we were doing we're going to work out
come comparison. So it was just being at piece of
that and just really key into that. So I suppose, yeah,
in a golf sense, it's knowing that your swing is
(22:23):
probably as good as it needs to be, and it's
just allowing yourself to let that happen, and instead of
kind of tensing up and trying to manipulate it in
a way that might feel like it's going to be better,
it's just allowing the natural, the natural ability to come through.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
The maybe young people listening to this who are interested
in high jumping, So you know, I've had a look
at it, and I understand there are four phases in
the high jump technique, the approach, the take off, bar clearance,
and landing, which is most important.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Each each phase kind of enables the next phase, and
so you almost think that the first phase is the
most important until you finish that phase, and then the
second phase is the most important. But I think for me,
my approach has always been the most important. So this
year one of the massive things that we've been working
on is my curve. So you have a sort of
(23:19):
straight part of your run up, which is where you
generate speed and you build your momentum, and then you
start running a curve which takes you into your takeoff.
And the reason you do a curve is so that
you can create rotation in the air and then also
the appropriate momentum and traductory to get over the bar.
So that curve for me, has been a massive thing
(23:41):
this year. That's what we've been really really focused on.
Once you kind of do those obviously, takeoff is super important,
but if you can't run up properly, if you don't
have the right approach, then your takeoffs almost almost irrelevant
because you're just not in the right place. And then yeah,
then the bar clearance is very import and landing is
(24:02):
probably not so important. So long as you've got the
good result, you shoud to just let that happen.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I'm ready to go to let you know my age
with this question, because I can remember nineteen sixty eight
when the American Dick Fosby did the flop, and you know,
there was a huge rumpus about it because people said,
this is cheating, and you know, we should go back
to the scissors or the Eastern roll or the Western
(24:28):
roll or the cut. Have you ever tried any of
those old things.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
We use scisser jumping quite on training, so that's where
you're sort of standing up and you just sizz your
legs over the bar, and we use that training just
because it's sort of a different way of jumping, but
all the other ones not very good for your legs.
A lot of high jumpers back in the day would
sort of blown knees out and ankles out and the
farious other things, so sort of trying to stay away
(24:54):
from them.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Gold sport person Marie Digger's sporting lives with Callaway.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
You're the first person that I've ever heard who's called
athletics a team sport. In researching for this interview, I
learned exactly what you were on about, and I think
all our listeners will understand in a minute or two
as well. So tell me what the role of these
people has been in your development and success, and we'll
(25:26):
start with Terry Lomax.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, so Terry was my first kind of major performance coach.
So when I moved to christ Church, Terry was the
guy who kind of sold me the dream. He was
the one who who made me realize that I could
go really far on the sport. And so he's sort
of a head coach role, I suppose, and he brought
(25:52):
my team together. He kind of created the foundation of
what we do, and until middle of last year was
my coach. And then now he is into a technical
role so sort of helps my current coach in providing
feedback and technical cues and stuff. But yeah, I mean,
he's he's kind of the he's the wizard we like
to call him, sort of the old Gandalff type who
(26:14):
kind of comes in and oversees everything and instead of
creates an awesome place to be.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Is James Sandlin's your current coach.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Yes, yeah, so Jimmy has has now taken augur the
reins and again he does a lot of the same
things that Terry used to do. But also one of
his big things is now that I actually travel so much,
he's got a big coordination role in terms of really
feeding back to the rest of the team back home
so that they can kind of do their job. The
(26:43):
worst thing is creating a massive set of team and
having having great processes in place when you're in New
Zealand and then you head over it to actually put
all the work into practice in the competitions, and then
and then seat of you stop the communication. So that's
Jimmy's role. He's the he's the chatterbox and obviously also
the head coach.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I like the fact that both those guys stuck their
egos in the corner and got on with it together.
I think that's terrific.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah, it's very honestly, I feel like I want to
just touch on that very briefly as well. It's it's
it's quite cool when Terry, Terry sort of indicated for
me that he was he was starting to look at
retirement and wanting to start sort of coming out of
the sport a little bit. Often when that happens, and
often when an athlete wants a new coach, there's there's
(27:34):
the chat, the handshake and off you go, you know,
thanks for your business. But Terry was actually it was
pretty special, to be honest, Terry agreed to a transition
period where he would mentor Jimmy, and Jimmy and Terry
would work together to sort of hand over the reins
and and also do that sort of the best interest
(27:55):
of being and athletes. So yeah, for both those boys
to come together like that, it's not a traditional wag
working by any stretch of imagination, but it was the
one that ended up getting me the amazing result.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Simeon Joblin.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
So, Simeon's my strength conditioning coach, So he's the one
that we brought in a couple of years ago to
really sort of increase my physical ability and he's also
part of my really tight team, So works with Jimmy
really closely around everything jumping and body related.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
What about Matt Ingram.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Matt is my biomet so what he will do is
when we need technical analysis, so when I'm changing things,
in my run up or in my jump. He can
come down and provide really good data and really good,
miserable kind of feedback through video analysis and various other
measures to kind of let us know whether what we're
(28:55):
doing is working essentially.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Because the biomeanics are very important in this, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Oh, massively. I mean the sport is just technique and
physical ability essentially, So yeah, it's it's very important.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Tamson Chittk.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Tamson's my physio and so Tamsen has actually she's one
of the longest serving members of my team along with
Terry she I met Tanzon in twenty seventeen before I
actually moved to Chrosh Church. And not only does Tamsen
work in kind of like in a physio role where
she's she's looking at my injury resilience and sort of
(29:37):
trying to forecast what loads will be put on my
body through different phases of training, but she's also she's
a very hard questioner, and we'll always be keeping the
whole team accountable in terms of, you know, what we
set out to achieve and where are actually on the
right track. So Tamson is also part of my really
tight team with Simeon and Jimmy Now. So yeah, very
(30:00):
very gratefully. John quinn quenty is mental skills, so he
helps the top two inches, which is very important for
high jump. So yeah, I on sort of a weekly
and fortnightly basis just around am I getting what I
need and kind of what technx do I have when
(30:21):
those big jumps come out? And how I can kind
of really really allow the freedom to come in.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
My jumping and assimpsic.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Anna is my life advisor. So I worked quite a
lot with Anna when I first moved to christ Church,
just around how I structure my life in a way
that's going to be relevant to training and getting the
most out of balancing the things that young athletes have
to balance, like working and training and recovering and traveling.
So yeah, she was really invaluable and now she works
(30:52):
more in a just sort of keeping me, keeping me
on the right track in terms of thinking about how
I'm also sort of progressing my career professionally, not just
as an athlete. You know, what are the skills I'm learning,
what's the opportunities I've got outside of sport that I
can still keep bubbling way.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
At how many of that team travel with you.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
So there's one more in the team. Actually, I'm just
going to tok on, which is Rebecca Cook. Rebecca Cook
is my nutritionist, so very important in a high jump
because pow to wait ratio is such a big thing.
So she, yeah, she makes sure that I'm I'm not
eating too much but also staying relatively healthy at the
same time, so she is very very important.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
So how many do travel with you?
Speaker 3 (31:40):
So there's a good question at the start. So when
I first started traveling, it was more often it was
just me, which was pretty tough. You know. There was
a lot of time I was spent alone in hotel
rooms and traveling around the world, so not not sort
of the most ideal performance environment. But now I'm I'm
in a situation where I'll generally have at least one
(32:02):
person with me. Usually that's Jimmy, my coach, but sometimes
it can be others. It could be a physio or
strength conditioning coach. But yeah, that's that's one of the
big things for the next few years that I'm wanting
to change a bit more is how can I get
as many of those people over it at sort of
different times of the year to keep me on the
straight narrow.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Well, it all comes down to money at the end
of the day. You and I both know that. Who
are your personal sponsors?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
So my main sponsor is Permit So Perma Sports were
I have a professional contract with them through the kind
of global marketing department. So yeah, that's that's kind of
who is mainly paying the bills at the moment, along
with a bit of high performance sport us you on funding.
But yeah, it's I think it's gonna interesting to see
what the next few months bring, whether whether that portfolio
(32:55):
sort of diverse, spies a wee bit and and sort
of what comes from that.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Well, just handle it yourself. Don't get an agent, because
my experience of them is that there are shockers. Your
mum and dad have both been high achievers, really high
achievers to your dad's a highly respected cardiologist. What did
you learn from that wonderful family environment?
Speaker 3 (33:19):
I think I think it made me realize that high
performance comes in any form of life. I look at
what mum and dad did when we were growing up,
you know, to fur themselves professionally and to bring us
up as kids, and just the attention to detail and
(33:40):
the planning and you know, the working hard and all
these things that are very very prevalent in sport. They
were also completely living in their own fields. Obviously, Dad
being a cardiologist, he worked long hours and did a
lot of research and was sort of coordinating all these
different things and having a really really meaningful impact on
(34:01):
on the world. And my mum as a speech therapist,
so she also works in the hospital setting and spends
a lot of time dealing with with a lot of
you know, difficult cases and various other sort of challenges,
but as able to use the tools and the things
that she's learned to get across those those challenges. And
(34:21):
so I think that was what was most inspiring for
me was seeing what they did, knowing that there probably
wasn't a huge chance that I was going to give
into those respective fields, and yet they showed me the
kind of values and the you know, the tools that
they had were were relevant in any fields. So yeah,
it's it's definitely shown, you know, what they've done and
(34:46):
what they've kind of pushed on to us as us
as their children as it's pretty cool and it's actually
quite interesting. I am an athlete, but my free siblings
are not. They adopt the ones at law school and
ones doing cybersecurity as a consultant. So I think we've
all gone into some pretty high performance fields and taking
(35:07):
those kind of those mentors that our parents are really
instilled in us from a young age.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Your girlfriend, Maddie Wilson, she's a high jumper. Does she
train with you?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Yeah? Yeah, well yeah, so Maddie is, she's a hit athlete,
high jumpers, so she does seven events and then high
jumpers is probably her best one if you'd ask me.
But yeah, we met on the track. We weren't getting
college by the same person when we first met, but
we since now are, and so we do do a
little bit of training together, but we try instead of
(35:39):
do do as minimal as possible, because we do spend
quite a bit of time with each other outside of
the track as well.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
What are your immediate plans between now and Christmas?
Speaker 3 (35:50):
That's a good question. I have a bit of time off,
which I think is well deserved. So I mean she's
heading back to New Zealand and the next week or
so we are I'll be fully celebrating and catching up
with my sport team and my parents and all my
friends back home and really just trying to soak in
that whole environment. I don't think the meal has fully
soaken in yet, just because I'm not at home. I
(36:13):
think that just being on the road is always a
little bit of an artificial environment. So it's gonna be
super nice to get home. But then, yeah, I'm actually
heading to Raratong with Mum and dad in October, so
we'll be doing a little bit of travel, a little
bit more travel, I suppose, and then I'll sort of
start doing my review and work out what we're going
to do.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Next year and long two billions.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yeah, I think I've still got a lot to give
to the sport. I think that the big goal has
probably been ticked off. The big immediate goal has been
ticked off with winning the Olympics. But I still think
that I can jump higher, and that is that's always
kind of what's got me out of bed in the morning,
is just that want to jump higher and higher and higher.
(36:58):
So yeah, I'm going to work out how we do that,
and that's something that the next few years is really
going to be pushed towards. And I think for the
next Olympics, I think my probably immediate goal for that
will be not only to win ak in, but also
to jump on the record of two forty, which is,
you know, it's the highest that anyone has ever jumped
(37:20):
on the day that everyone knows that matters, and so
for me, I think that's the big goal.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Something I hadn't thought about the whole traveling around and
you were saying, you know, you do twenty events perhaps
in a year. Are those paid events?
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Yeah? Yeah, they mostly most mostly paid. What generally happens
in athletics is you will negotiate a travel allowance, they
will put you up in a hotel, you'll compete. If
you do well, you get prize money. If not, you don't,
and then you kind of get chucked on the plane
and off the next place. So you, yeah, you do
(38:00):
get paid when you're at those competitions, but obviously the
kickers is that we can't come home to a place
which is relatively cheap between those competitions, and so it's
that sort of that basing and that training in and
around those competitions, which is which is what's most expensive
for us.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
And when you stop to think about it, you would
have been much better to become a basketballer. Look at
the money those guys make and you're tall enough too,
I reckon.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean look all I'm all I'm
saying is if you want to make money, don't get
into track and fields. It's an amazing sport. I love
what I do, but yeah, I'm not counting openies. That's sure.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Well, Hamish, we love what you do too. You have
given New Zealand as so much pleasure. Congratulations on the
performance and the very best for a nice holiday and
Rara Tonga and then back into it and we'll look
forward to it all happening again in the next Olympics.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Awesome and it thanks to hate saving you. It's been great.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
That was Olympic gold medalist Hamish Kurr. It's fascinating, isn't it,
That role that families play in not only young people's lives,
but in everybody's life. And that's another episode of Murray
Deeka's Sporting Lives, brought to you by Callaway. If you
enjoyed this episode, please follow the podcast on iHeartRadio or
(39:32):
wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be back this Thursday
of next month on Murray Deaker's Sporting Lives
Gold Sport presents Murray Deeker's Sporting Lives with Callaway, the
leading manufacturer of premium golf clubs, balls and accessories worldwide.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hi Murray Deeker here, Welcome to my podcast, Murray Deeker's
Sported Lives. During my career, I've spent forty years interviewing
the biggest names in sport and I'm thrilled to bring
you this podcast talking to sporting legends and giving you
a look into their world to hear their memories, their
(00:31):
stories and some opinion too. Today, a man who gave
us one of the magic moments at the Paris Olympics,
a real nail biter as he jumped his way to
gold in the most dramatic fashion in a jump off.
He won it against the American Shelby McEwen. This week's guest,
(00:54):
the Kiwi high jumper Hamish Curve.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Gold Sport presents Murray Dieker's Sporting Lives with Callaway.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Once the Olympics were over, I asked a number of
sporting people who they would like to know more about
and the answer was clear, Hamish curR Some pointed out
that we had not won a gold medal at track
and field athletics since John Walker at Montreal. Others said
they wanted to hear from a bloke whose celebration after
(01:26):
the winning jump was so memorable that they reckon he
was different and interesting. Hamish is still in the Northern Hemisphere.
Are you aware, Hamish of the level of interest in
you in New Zealand?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yeah, I'm a little bit aware of it. I think
obviously to get a track in field medal of any
color is such a massive thing, especially without history in
the sport. But I don't think I'm fully going to
understand it until I get home, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Well I'll tell you what, You'll be a hero wherever
you go because people it and you know, we're always
meant to be humble and or sharks when we win something.
So many people said I'd love to do a victory
lap like that. Did that just happen spontaneously?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah? Well, so it was quite funny. There was javelin
going on on the other side of the field, and
so I knew that there was sort of a few
spears getting hurled down our end gradually, and I was
sort of keeping eye on how their progress was going
because I was keen to jump onto the field, and
I did see that had finished about five minutes before
we ended. We ended our competition, and so yeah, so
(02:36):
once I, once I cleared that last bar, I just
I just made a bee line for it and thought,
you know, why not?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, and why not let's talk the event itself first. Well,
you concerned that you'd had two misses during qualifying and
one more missing you have been out?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah? Yeah, the short answer is yes. I I have
to say that those that twenty height, so the two
muscles in the one clearance was it was definitely the
hardest of the whole competition. I feel like that was
definitely the deepest that I aimed to dig into like
my mental game and into my and to really trust
(03:14):
in my process. And then once once I atu did
those that clearance, I feel like the rest was almost easy.
I feel like that just gave me the freedom to
express all the great stuff I've got and the rest
was just almost a precession after that.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I don't know who the commentator was, and I don't
think he was a key, but he said the spoke
needs to wake up. You've probably heard that. That was
was what was said because they had viewed you as
a real favorite in the event, is the qualifying one
of the hardest things about the event.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah, it's well, I mean it's been too I think
for me it definitely has been. And so I made
the final in Tokyo and that was my first kind
of major event that I had not ever done. But
since then I had two World Chaps for I didn't
make the final, and so I think for me, qualifying
has definitely been sort of a bit of a bogie event.
We don't do a lot of qualifyings on circuit. We
(04:09):
never do them in New Zealand. We need to do
them in the professional league, so it's it's something that
I think in the back of my mind I had
a bit of PTSD from all the other competitions that
I've done where I wasn't making the final, and so yeah,
I think that was sort of a weird kind of
mindset to be trying to go in and instead of
trying to think about trying to beat everybody, it's it's
sort of a more of a surviving, advanced kind of mindset.
(04:31):
So yeah, it definitely was was hard. We don't get
a lot of chances to practice that, and so that
was why for me it was definitely the much harder
of the two competitions.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Outline the drama of the jump off between yourself, McEwen
and of course the then Olympic champion version.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, it was, it was cool. It was yeah, it
sort of was history repeating itself a wee bit. Tokyo,
Barsham and Timburry, the Italian and the Qatari both shared
the gold medal when they had the opportunity to go
to a jump off, and that was unprecedented at the time,
like it had never happened before. We didn't even realize
that that was an option. Usually, when you're on your
(05:15):
type for first place, you just have a jump off,
which is when you have one more attempt at the
height that you're at and then you go down two
centimeters and have one attempt at each of those fights
until someone clears and someonelesses it. But they decided that
that was not something that they wanted to do in Tokyo,
and so that was seen as a real kind of
(05:36):
landmark moment for the Olympic movement and sort of you know,
playing sport together and all the sort of fitness and stuff,
and that was that was so amazing for the sport
as well, because I think it really put it on
the mat. Like a lot of people were talking about it,
a lot of people sort of voted at one in
the moments of the Games. But and that being said,
I don't think it was going to happen again. And
we talked about it at length going into Paris, saying well,
(06:00):
you know, if you are in a jump off, what
would you do? And the funny thing is that those
sort of conversations you have are purely theoretical, because the
chances of having two Olympic Finals end in a jump
off is it's almost impossible. I've only been a part
of two competitions ever where that's gone to jump off,
and both of those have been the Olympic Finals. No
(06:23):
other competition that I do, and you know, I'll do
twenty competitions a year, No other competition goes has ever
gone to jump off that I've experienced, and so for
that to happen was it was almost impossibly and possibly
low chances of it happening, And so yeah, it was
quite quite funny. Really, it was almost like the alternative
ending to the Tokyo Final that a lot of people
(06:44):
wanted and a lot of people had sort of hoped for,
And so when me and Shelby both had the opportunity
to decide whether we wanted to jump or not, we
both just took it in a heartbeat. We both decided
that it was something that would be awesome to to do,
given that it hadn't happened last time, and something that
also would be amazing to sort of add to the
(07:05):
sport in our own little story.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Well, I'm pleased that's cleared up, because there'd been so
many different versions of what happened. But what happened was
you both decided, Hey, we're going to have a jump off.
Is that the story?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, Yeah, it's funny. I think the reason that people
well one of the reasons people have sort of thought
that there was differ differing outcomes to what actually happened
was because I actually didn't know if I was first,
equal or first outright. I had kind of miscaped in
my head where I was standing in the order, And
(07:40):
so when we're at two thirty eight, we're attempting our
last attempts before the jump off, I was actually going
back and forth with the chief official to try and
work out what placing I was currently in, and so
I think a lot of people in the crowd, especially
thought that I was discussing whether I could jump off
or whether I was allowed to share the medal, which
(08:02):
was not the case. I was just trying to work
out what position I was in, and so that kind
of I think spurred a couple of people thinking, Oh,
he's trying to you know, he's trying to work out
some some different tactics and stuff. And literally all it
was is that I just miscounted my head the number
of jumps that we've both done, and yeah, once the
(08:23):
once my last attempt at two thirty eight happens, I
just walked over to Shelby, he was sitting there with
the officials, and I just locked in the eyes. I said,
let's jump, and he just shook his you know, he
nodded his head and agreed, and off we went.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Before that took place, the then Olympic champion Barsham, he
decided to jump a lot higher and go past both
of you. Was that a gamble, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It definitely was. He he had had two messes of
two thirty six and then he passed his last attempt
to go to two thirty eight to try and get
a first tempt apparents, which would have put him back
into the game. But at the same time, I mean that,
you know, there's so many different kind of tactics to
high jump, and one of those tactics being that if
he had cleared two thirty six on that third attempt,
(09:12):
he still would have been in third given the fact
that both me and Shelby had already cleared. So for
him it was kind of like almost saving his energy
and really just putting his eggs in one basket. But
at the same time, like if he had cleared, he
would have gotten three more attempts, but he still would
have been behind. So I think that that's sort of
what he did. But at the same time, like you know,
(09:32):
Bastroom's getting older now, he's done four Olympics and middled
at all four of them, So that's that's just such
an amazing kind of history that he's got, and so
to be able to even come away with the bronze
for him at this Olympics, given how long he's been
around for is just yeah, it's spectacular.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
I've read, well, you've got very clear memories of Hamish
Carter winning a gold at Athens. You're seven years old.
Is that true, and did it inspire you?
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, yeah, it definitely is. I remember watching Athens that
was kind of the first, the first Olympics that I
probably understood what was going on a little bit more
and started sort of understanding the context of the whole situation.
And yeah, I have really find memories of Hans Carter
and his little crop cop running running for the gold,
(10:20):
and Devon Doherty coming in close behind him to come second.
And I think that for me, I was never connected
to try film was it was never a sport that
I played when I was younger or was interested in doing.
But that sort of seeing the silver fern and the
black singlet on the global stage coming across first and
just the celebration and the pride that that brought out
(10:42):
in the nation was something that made me feel really
good and something that I wanted to probably didn't want
to aspire to strictly in in an athletic point of
view when I was seven years old, but it definitely
made me think that, you know, there's some pretty inspiring
things out there that can really help other people when
and it could be something that I'd be pretty interested
(11:03):
in if I could continue in the future.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Gold sport Presidents, Murray, Digger's sporting lives with Callaway.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
A number of provinces claiming you as their home product Auckland, Manoa,
two Canterbury. Isn't the reality that you've been developed by
all three?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I'm a Kiwi through and through, That's what I like
to tell people. But no, yeah, I have moved around
the wee bit. I was born in Dunedin, grew up
in Auckland's, went to Union Parmy and then now live
in christ Church. But like you said, you know, there's
been some really key figures and all of those places
that have really helped me on my journey. So yeah,
(11:47):
I feel a very strong connection to to all of
those people in all those places, and feel very lucky
to have so much support along the way from all
those people.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You played a wide variety of sports when you were young.
When did you first start to think that you'd focus
on high jumping.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
That's a good question. I yeah, I played rugby, I
played football, I did a little bit across country running.
I did some athletics of course, And I suppose through
all of this the overarching got the overarching thing which
got me into and kept me into various sports. Was
(12:27):
my enjoyment charactor and also just the social side and
for me going to an all boys school and you know,
perhaps spending a little bit too much time in all
boys sports, athletics was a real draw card given that
it was it was much more co ed and there
was you know there there's a lot sort of a
(12:48):
lot more range of days off school and and a
lot of kind of events to go to. So for
me not being a really really top athlete who was
sort of in all the premier sports teams and can
travel heaps, like athletics was sort of almost this way
to be able to get a little bit of trouble
out of my sport, and so that was kind of
what got me into athletics. But at the same time,
I would do a lot of distance running in my
(13:10):
early days, so sort of through to about sixteen, I
was also trying to do fifteens and four hundreds and
eight hundreds and a little bit of hurdles, and yeah,
I think that that was also just because that was
sort of our history and the sport as New Zealanders,
and that was something that I was really trying to emulate.
But yeah, it would get to the end of the
day and I'd go and do a high jump and
(13:31):
beat everyone after having come sort of tenth from the
fifteen hundreds. So I think pretty quickly I realized that
the high jump was probably going to be more my thing,
But I don't think I really kind of believed that
I was able to do it, probably until I finished university,
and that was when I had kind of indicated I'd
had it indicated to me that I had some pretty
(13:52):
good potential, and I personally decided that I really wanted
to see what I could do in in my twenties
with the sport that I had good potential, and I
didn't really want to just leave it. At a point
where I was wondering what if I could sort of
imagine myself in the future just going man, I could
have been really good at that, but I sort of
(14:12):
didn't try because of you know, various other life things
that give in the way. So, yeah, just to be
able to just put it, put it to beer and
try for at least a few years, that was my
big goal in twenty eighteen when I moved to a
crash church, and yeah, I've just gone from strength strength
to strength since I think, you know, Tokyo for me
was probably the first time I realized that I really
was world class. And then from there I've just gotten
(14:35):
more and more confidence and a bitter and bitter team
and the development has just continued on a tradictory that
means that we're now here heaven and a chat about Olympic.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Gold, Well, there's a lot in there. Firstly, what degree
did you do?
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I did agricultural commerce with the major in economics.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Are you going to use that?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I have no immediate plans right but at some point
years and.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
The Tokyo Olympics, which I don't wan to brush over
because you know that's a big breakthrough for you, really
is a bit.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think you know, Tokyo is a
weird situation. We obviously had COVID pandemic in and around Tokyo,
so the game's got postponed once we had lockdowns, we
can traveled, competitions, There was all these sort of various
things which were pretty unpresced into as an athlete, as
you know, as everyone I had to deal with, and
(15:27):
so I think for me, being at the start of
my career, I probably didn't realize that that wasn't normal.
For me, it was just a big fun you know, like, oh,
you know it's changing. It's a year later now, and
I can just do another year of training and but
and get on with it. And you know, I think
I probably dealt with it quite well at the time,
But what it ultimately meant was that I didn't get
(15:48):
out into the world and competing against all the big
guys until I got to Tokyo. And that was a
big moment for me because at that stage, I had
seen all the guys jumping on TV. I'd watched all
the competitions, I'd watched all the YouTube videos and sort
of growing up supporting the sport and understanding the context
(16:09):
of all these great, great high jumpers. And then to
be actually in a stadium and su see them in
the flesh and share the track with them. That was
such a massive moment for my confidence because it felt normal.
It was weird. It was like I belonged there. It's
just a track at the end of the day. You know,
(16:30):
it looks amazing on TV, but at the end of
the day you can go down your local athletics track
and it's essentially the same plane. It's four hundred meters
it's rubber, there's a high jump man, there's there's upright,
there's there's a shop at circle, there's a grass and fields.
It's all the same. And so going into that stadium
and being able to kind of actually feel that for
myself it was real. It was something that I'd worked
(16:53):
towards and it was something that was really good at.
And so that was kind of for me a massive
confidence booster to know that not only do I belong,
but I could actually thrive in that environment.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Well, that came through because I had a look and
I see that in twenty twenty two, you competed in
thirteen Diamond League meets and you were only once outside
the top six. The question I've got is why did
you then redo your entire approach in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I think for me it's it's around why I do
the sport. I think that I was in a position
twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two where almost every single
competition I did, I jumped between about two twenty four
and two twenty seven, and there was the odds breakthrough
performance of the two thirty or two thirty one through
that time, but most of my competitions were two twenty five,
(17:48):
and I kind of got the sense that on tour
I was starting to be seen as the reliable journeyman
a little bit. It was kind of like I was.
At most comps, I was guaranteed to get about a
mid twenty jump, and that might get me between about
second and fourth, depending on how everyone else did. But
(18:08):
that wasn't what I wanted for my career. I wanted
to be the best I wanted to I wanted to
prove to myself that I could jump higher, and I
knew that I was capable of jumping higher. I knew
that a mid thirty to a two forty jump was
what was really capable for me, and so having not
kind of pushed that height up over a couple of years,
(18:30):
I decided that something needed to change. And the focus
changed from being a let's try and do a good
performance at every meet to let's try and do a
great performance twice a year, and then any other meat
that we do is revolving around getting those those big jumps,
(18:51):
and that's what we did. We changed a few things.
I juggled around my support team a little bit. My
head coach at the time moved into more of a
technical role, and I brought in a new guy to
sort of run the show, and with with him and
the rest of my team and myself, we just decided
that it was it was enough. We'd had enough in
(19:13):
terms of jumping good, and we wanted to really crack
into jumping great. And that's that's what we really worked
on the last couple of years.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
So what were the things that made you jump higher?
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I think the probably hot like making I mean, first,
first and foremost physical. So so my physical capacity was
was always good, but it was never kind of tapped out,
and so we we brought in a strength conditioning specialist
(19:46):
who was able to really look at the needy gritty
and really understand that the intricacies of powder weight and
how to sort of strength train properly for for what
we needed. And so that that kind of got brought
in with with my strength condition coach. And then the
next thing was how do we how do we tailor
my technique so the way that I jump to be
(20:08):
good at two thirty and two thirty five and two
forty rather than through twenty two five to thirty, because
that was sort of where my technique was at that point.
And then and then it was also just around living
like an athlete more really just like I suppose, locking
into the fact that I needed to eat better, I
needed to recover better, I needed to just be so
(20:30):
much more kind of consummate with how I spent my time,
because I think that I was probably up till up
to twenty twenty three, I was I was doing well.
I was doing a lot of things I needed to do,
but I just wasn't doing them consistently enough. And so
it was just around just being really boring and doing
the exact same stuff every day, and just being sort
of very obsessed with the process rather than obsessing a
(20:52):
lot about the outcome.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
What should made the changes? How long did it take
to bid them down so that they were the things
that you executed? And I asked, this is a struggling
goalfer going through a bad patch where you know you
need the same technique all the time forget about the outcome,
think the process, and think the shot. Now.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Yeah, well, I'm going to premise this by saying I'm
struggling golfer twos, so it doesn't go across all my life.
But no, I think the thing was is that all
the tools were there. It wasn't a case of reinventing
the wheel for me in terms of the last few months,
it was more around what do you really trust? How
(21:39):
can you get the validation from yourself and from your
team that what you're doing is on the right track.
There's always going to be challenges, like things will always
challenge your processes and how you operate, and those challenges
come in injuries or bad performances or even just external
people asking you, questioning or you or pressuring you on
(22:01):
what you're doing and why you do it. But I
think for me it was just I had the sense
of peace that we had worked really hard and all
the things we were doing we're going to work out
come comparison. So it was just being at piece of
that and just really key into that. So I suppose, yeah,
in a golf sense, it's knowing that your swing is
(22:23):
probably as good as it needs to be, and it's
just allowing yourself to let that happen, and instead of
kind of tensing up and trying to manipulate it in
a way that might feel like it's going to be better,
it's just allowing the natural, the natural ability to come through.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
The maybe young people listening to this who are interested
in high jumping, So you know, I've had a look
at it, and I understand there are four phases in
the high jump technique, the approach, the take off, bar clearance,
and landing, which is most important.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Each each phase kind of enables the next phase, and
so you almost think that the first phase is the
most important until you finish that phase, and then the
second phase is the most important. But I think for me,
my approach has always been the most important. So this
year one of the massive things that we've been working
on is my curve. So you have a sort of
(23:19):
straight part of your run up, which is where you
generate speed and you build your momentum, and then you
start running a curve which takes you into your takeoff.
And the reason you do a curve is so that
you can create rotation in the air and then also
the appropriate momentum and traductory to get over the bar.
So that curve for me, has been a massive thing
(23:41):
this year. That's what we've been really really focused on.
Once you kind of do those obviously, takeoff is super important,
but if you can't run up properly, if you don't
have the right approach, then your takeoffs almost almost irrelevant
because you're just not in the right place. And then yeah,
then the bar clearance is very import and landing is
(24:02):
probably not so important. So long as you've got the
good result, you shoud to just let that happen.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I'm ready to go to let you know my age
with this question, because I can remember nineteen sixty eight
when the American Dick Fosby did the flop, and you know,
there was a huge rumpus about it because people said,
this is cheating, and you know, we should go back
to the scissors or the Eastern roll or the Western
(24:28):
roll or the cut. Have you ever tried any of
those old things.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
We use scisser jumping quite on training, so that's where
you're sort of standing up and you just sizz your
legs over the bar, and we use that training just
because it's sort of a different way of jumping, but
all the other ones not very good for your legs.
A lot of high jumpers back in the day would
sort of blown knees out and ankles out and the
farious other things, so sort of trying to stay away
(24:54):
from them.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Gold sport person Marie Digger's sporting lives with Callaway.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
You're the first person that I've ever heard who's called
athletics a team sport. In researching for this interview, I
learned exactly what you were on about, and I think
all our listeners will understand in a minute or two
as well. So tell me what the role of these
people has been in your development and success, and we'll
(25:26):
start with Terry Lomax.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, so Terry was my first kind of major performance coach.
So when I moved to christ Church, Terry was the
guy who kind of sold me the dream. He was
the one who who made me realize that I could
go really far on the sport. And so he's sort
of a head coach role, I suppose, and he brought
(25:52):
my team together. He kind of created the foundation of
what we do, and until middle of last year was
my coach. And then now he is into a technical
role so sort of helps my current coach in providing
feedback and technical cues and stuff. But yeah, I mean,
he's he's kind of the he's the wizard we like
to call him, sort of the old Gandalff type who
(26:14):
kind of comes in and oversees everything and instead of
creates an awesome place to be.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Is James Sandlin's your current coach.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Yes, yeah, so Jimmy has has now taken augur the
reins and again he does a lot of the same
things that Terry used to do. But also one of
his big things is now that I actually travel so much,
he's got a big coordination role in terms of really
feeding back to the rest of the team back home
so that they can kind of do their job. The
(26:43):
worst thing is creating a massive set of team and
having having great processes in place when you're in New
Zealand and then you head over it to actually put
all the work into practice in the competitions, and then
and then seat of you stop the communication. So that's
Jimmy's role. He's the he's the chatterbox and obviously also
the head coach.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I like the fact that both those guys stuck their
egos in the corner and got on with it together.
I think that's terrific.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah, it's very honestly, I feel like I want to
just touch on that very briefly as well. It's it's
it's quite cool when Terry, Terry sort of indicated for
me that he was he was starting to look at
retirement and wanting to start sort of coming out of
the sport a little bit. Often when that happens, and
often when an athlete wants a new coach, there's there's
(27:34):
the chat, the handshake and off you go, you know,
thanks for your business. But Terry was actually it was
pretty special, to be honest, Terry agreed to a transition
period where he would mentor Jimmy, and Jimmy and Terry
would work together to sort of hand over the reins
and and also do that sort of the best interest
(27:55):
of being and athletes. So yeah, for both those boys
to come together like that, it's not a traditional wag
working by any stretch of imagination, but it was the
one that ended up getting me the amazing result.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Simeon Joblin.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
So, Simeon's my strength conditioning coach, So he's the one
that we brought in a couple of years ago to
really sort of increase my physical ability and he's also
part of my really tight team, So works with Jimmy
really closely around everything jumping and body related.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
What about Matt Ingram.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Matt is my biomet so what he will do is
when we need technical analysis, so when I'm changing things,
in my run up or in my jump. He can
come down and provide really good data and really good,
miserable kind of feedback through video analysis and various other
measures to kind of let us know whether what we're
(28:55):
doing is working essentially.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Because the biomeanics are very important in this, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Oh, massively. I mean the sport is just technique and
physical ability essentially, So yeah, it's it's very important.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Tamson Chittk.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Tamson's my physio and so Tamsen has actually she's one
of the longest serving members of my team along with
Terry she I met Tanzon in twenty seventeen before I
actually moved to Chrosh Church. And not only does Tamsen
work in kind of like in a physio role where
she's she's looking at my injury resilience and sort of
(29:37):
trying to forecast what loads will be put on my
body through different phases of training, but she's also she's
a very hard questioner, and we'll always be keeping the
whole team accountable in terms of, you know, what we
set out to achieve and where are actually on the
right track. So Tamson is also part of my really
tight team with Simeon and Jimmy Now. So yeah, very
(30:00):
very gratefully. John quinn quenty is mental skills, so he
helps the top two inches, which is very important for
high jump. So yeah, I on sort of a weekly
and fortnightly basis just around am I getting what I
need and kind of what technx do I have when
(30:21):
those big jumps come out? And how I can kind
of really really allow the freedom to come in.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
My jumping and assimpsic.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Anna is my life advisor. So I worked quite a
lot with Anna when I first moved to christ Church,
just around how I structure my life in a way
that's going to be relevant to training and getting the
most out of balancing the things that young athletes have
to balance, like working and training and recovering and traveling.
So yeah, she was really invaluable and now she works
(30:52):
more in a just sort of keeping me, keeping me
on the right track in terms of thinking about how
I'm also sort of progressing my career professionally, not just
as an athlete. You know, what are the skills I'm learning,
what's the opportunities I've got outside of sport that I
can still keep bubbling way.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
At how many of that team travel with you.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
So there's one more in the team. Actually, I'm just
going to tok on, which is Rebecca Cook. Rebecca Cook
is my nutritionist, so very important in a high jump
because pow to wait ratio is such a big thing.
So she, yeah, she makes sure that I'm I'm not
eating too much but also staying relatively healthy at the
same time, so she is very very important.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
So how many do travel with you?
Speaker 3 (31:40):
So there's a good question at the start. So when
I first started traveling, it was more often it was
just me, which was pretty tough. You know. There was
a lot of time I was spent alone in hotel
rooms and traveling around the world, so not not sort
of the most ideal performance environment. But now I'm I'm
in a situation where I'll generally have at least one
(32:02):
person with me. Usually that's Jimmy, my coach, but sometimes
it can be others. It could be a physio or
strength conditioning coach. But yeah, that's that's one of the
big things for the next few years that I'm wanting
to change a bit more is how can I get
as many of those people over it at sort of
different times of the year to keep me on the
straight narrow.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Well, it all comes down to money at the end
of the day. You and I both know that. Who
are your personal sponsors?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
So my main sponsor is Permit So Perma Sports were
I have a professional contract with them through the kind
of global marketing department. So yeah, that's that's kind of
who is mainly paying the bills at the moment, along
with a bit of high performance sport us you on funding.
But yeah, it's I think it's gonna interesting to see
what the next few months bring, whether whether that portfolio
(32:55):
sort of diverse, spies a wee bit and and sort
of what comes from that.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Well, just handle it yourself. Don't get an agent, because
my experience of them is that there are shockers. Your
mum and dad have both been high achievers, really high
achievers to your dad's a highly respected cardiologist. What did
you learn from that wonderful family environment?
Speaker 3 (33:19):
I think I think it made me realize that high
performance comes in any form of life. I look at
what mum and dad did when we were growing up,
you know, to fur themselves professionally and to bring us
up as kids, and just the attention to detail and
(33:40):
the planning and you know, the working hard and all
these things that are very very prevalent in sport. They
were also completely living in their own fields. Obviously, Dad
being a cardiologist, he worked long hours and did a
lot of research and was sort of coordinating all these
different things and having a really really meaningful impact on
(34:01):
on the world. And my mum as a speech therapist,
so she also works in the hospital setting and spends
a lot of time dealing with with a lot of
you know, difficult cases and various other sort of challenges,
but as able to use the tools and the things
that she's learned to get across those those challenges. And
(34:21):
so I think that was what was most inspiring for
me was seeing what they did, knowing that there probably
wasn't a huge chance that I was going to give
into those respective fields, and yet they showed me the
kind of values and the you know, the tools that
they had were were relevant in any fields. So yeah,
it's it's definitely shown, you know, what they've done and
(34:46):
what they've kind of pushed on to us as us
as their children as it's pretty cool and it's actually
quite interesting. I am an athlete, but my free siblings
are not. They adopt the ones at law school and
ones doing cybersecurity as a consultant. So I think we've
all gone into some pretty high performance fields and taking
(35:07):
those kind of those mentors that our parents are really
instilled in us from a young age.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Your girlfriend, Maddie Wilson, she's a high jumper. Does she
train with you?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Yeah? Yeah, well yeah, so Maddie is, she's a hit athlete,
high jumpers, so she does seven events and then high
jumpers is probably her best one if you'd ask me.
But yeah, we met on the track. We weren't getting
college by the same person when we first met, but
we since now are, and so we do do a
little bit of training together, but we try instead of
(35:39):
do do as minimal as possible, because we do spend
quite a bit of time with each other outside of
the track as well.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
What are your immediate plans between now and Christmas?
Speaker 3 (35:50):
That's a good question. I have a bit of time off,
which I think is well deserved. So I mean she's
heading back to New Zealand and the next week or
so we are I'll be fully celebrating and catching up
with my sport team and my parents and all my
friends back home and really just trying to soak in
that whole environment. I don't think the meal has fully
soaken in yet, just because I'm not at home. I
(36:13):
think that just being on the road is always a
little bit of an artificial environment. So it's gonna be
super nice to get home. But then, yeah, I'm actually
heading to Raratong with Mum and dad in October, so
we'll be doing a little bit of travel, a little
bit more travel, I suppose, and then I'll sort of
start doing my review and work out what we're going
to do.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Next year and long two billions.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yeah, I think I've still got a lot to give
to the sport. I think that the big goal has
probably been ticked off. The big immediate goal has been
ticked off with winning the Olympics. But I still think
that I can jump higher, and that is that's always
kind of what's got me out of bed in the morning,
is just that want to jump higher and higher and higher.
(36:58):
So yeah, I'm going to work out how we do that,
and that's something that the next few years is really
going to be pushed towards. And I think for the
next Olympics, I think my probably immediate goal for that
will be not only to win ak in, but also
to jump on the record of two forty, which is,
you know, it's the highest that anyone has ever jumped
(37:20):
on the day that everyone knows that matters, and so
for me, I think that's the big goal.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Something I hadn't thought about the whole traveling around and
you were saying, you know, you do twenty events perhaps
in a year. Are those paid events?
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Yeah? Yeah, they mostly most mostly paid. What generally happens
in athletics is you will negotiate a travel allowance, they
will put you up in a hotel, you'll compete. If
you do well, you get prize money. If not, you don't,
and then you kind of get chucked on the plane
and off the next place. So you, yeah, you do
(38:00):
get paid when you're at those competitions, but obviously the
kickers is that we can't come home to a place
which is relatively cheap between those competitions, and so it's
that sort of that basing and that training in and
around those competitions, which is which is what's most expensive
for us.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
And when you stop to think about it, you would
have been much better to become a basketballer. Look at
the money those guys make and you're tall enough too,
I reckon.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean look all I'm all I'm
saying is if you want to make money, don't get
into track and fields. It's an amazing sport. I love
what I do, but yeah, I'm not counting openies. That's sure.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Well, Hamish, we love what you do too. You have
given New Zealand as so much pleasure. Congratulations on the
performance and the very best for a nice holiday and
Rara Tonga and then back into it and we'll look
forward to it all happening again in the next Olympics.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Awesome and it thanks to hate saving you. It's been great.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
That was Olympic gold medalist Hamish Kurr. It's fascinating, isn't it,
That role that families play in not only young people's lives,
but in everybody's life. And that's another episode of Murray
Deeka's Sporting Lives, brought to you by Callaway. If you
enjoyed this episode, please follow the podcast on iHeartRadio or
(39:32):
wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be back this Thursday
of next month on Murray Deaker's Sporting Lives
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