February 12, 2025 • 40 mins
This week on On The Front Foot, Bryan Waddle and Jeremy Coney were joined by former coach Warren Lees as they acknowledge the Black Caps’ positive start in the build up to the Champions Trophy.
Lees also recalls his part in a piece of cricket history taking place 42 years ago this week in ‘Remember This’.
Send your thoughts to onthefrontfoot20@gmail.com
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk Sat B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on Iheartradios.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Take it on the pad.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
How we don't if you'll get in.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It's a trick.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
It is out.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
The test is over.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Goodness smooths, a beauty.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
It is out here, you guys. This delivery has in
neu uses the Gold.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
On the Front foot with Brian Waddell and Jeremy Cody,
powered by News Talks head be at iHeart Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Hello, here we.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Are again on the front foot and on the front
foot enjoys success and the success has been with the
black Caps so far preparation for the Champions Trophy two
from two and a place in the final.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Odio Cricket hasn't been high on the black Caps gender
in recent years. Just six men just played in the
last twelve to eighteen months previousits Ri Laica earlier this
year and then last year. You're against the Bangladesh So
Jeremy Gunny, this new eras started pretty well, a lot
of new faces there, but encouraging as a build up
(01:24):
to the champions Troping.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, this isn't it's that started as you say, very well.
Two from two a night match where they were set
a target and in a day match where they chased.
So that's good that you're doing both the different questions
and answering. Answering them well, really three point thirty for
six setting and then three hundred and eight for four chasing,
(01:47):
so two wins. Yeah, it's going to be interesting, isn't it.
If you're going to be getting those sorts of totals
three hundred plus. You can't get there just with six's.
You've got to play kind of a bit of orthodox
cricket as well, because the risk you take hitting the
(02:08):
big shots you lose wickets. And I think that's been
the feature for me is that New Zealand have played
generally orthodox cricket strokes. Yes, there have been the odds six,
but they've been down the ground, but they played, you know,
they played properly and that's what I've really enjoyed. Kept
(02:28):
me up a bit later than I wist actually, so
it was pleasing to see some of those batsmen going well,
particularly obviously Williamson is such a key component. When he
returns to the side, he just rijudifies if I could
(02:52):
put these steals up, you know, and tempers the whole
of that top and middle order because he bats through.
And I do hope that others are sort of inhaling
what he does when he arrives. You know, they watch
him at practice, they watch him what he does before
he bets. They watch him in the first four or
(03:13):
five overs and how he works out the shots you
need to play to succeed on that pitch.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, he's been the success and it is always important
part of the New Zealand side when you've got quality
play like that, Well says the tri series a little
bit further. And I'm able to say because we've got
Wally Lees joining the program this week. He's going to
play a part of history. Him and I we replay
(03:42):
from forty two years ago. In fact, we'll start with
it some exciting cricket. It was a losing cause it
was this week in nineteen eighty three, and I've searched
the vault of old commentary. Listen to us lot.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Jerry, Brian Waddell, Jeremy Cooney on the front foot, remember this.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
When they get this.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Time and he's got all it and the diving a
first plus six what with a square leg turned from
two girls?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
When you every one new home comes back and canvas.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
And got a half whatever from them that hit over.
I'm on relief from the seven ends bowl to can
Senno pep square.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
They have defended neer the one hander never the make
amazing shot I think I.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Have ever seen till he comes in and bowls the
Cans again.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
The tiny air w underneath it. It might go off
the top. Evern had a front bl.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yes, how could you forget it? It was only like
yesterday when Lance Cans launched an assault on the pride
of Australia's bowling nineteen eighty three February, and it was
an assault like no others, thick sixes and innings. It
didn't last very long, but then Lance Ken's innings never
(05:12):
lasted very long. But we were watching on TV that
outcome a man who was closer than that was former
New Zealand wicket keeper and Black Caps coach Warren Lees.
You had probably the worst seat in the house. You're
at the other end.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
Yeah, it was once. I don't know how that came about.
I mean, in fact, it also tells you something. I
think I was up higher in the order than Lance
as well, so he came up to join me, I
think at the wicket and yeah, the next half hour
was a surprising amount of cricket and a hugely surprising
amount of hitting. Really it was great.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
And the end result was the game was all over
anyway because you were chasing a massive target and you'd
lost the better part of your top audit.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Well, we had, really and in those days when Australia
took to us, they really got off the mark and
they bat it first and posted a very very competitive score.
I guess it. Halfway we thought, you know, we've got
a chance if we can get started. Well, I think
we're at one stage about five to forty, and really
(06:18):
the game had gone. The only thing you could expect
from from the lower part of the New Zealand team
at that stage would be could we crawel to one
hundred or could someone make their mark on the game
and give us just a little bit of confidence or
a little bit of during in our dressing room, we
wouldn't have expected it to happen the way it did,
but Lance Ken's was someone we leant on pretty heavily,
(06:42):
and you know, the big man that he was. It
was an exciting thing to watch from twenty meters away.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah, I was going to say, would you have had
much of a team talk at that stage in terms
of how are you going to go about it? Or
would he have just taken control of the game. You
were placing the likes of Lawson, Hog, Lily and McLay,
so they weren't such a bad bowling lineup in terms
of seam bowling anyway.
Speaker 5 (07:08):
I remember being at the non striker's end most of
the time, which was where I probably played my best cricket.
But yeah, planning it was was quite interesting. Lance Caf
Lance and I got together right at the start of
that so called partnership and that it was a very
very noisy crowd. That I mean the Australian crowd when
they're winning in those days, was just so loud, and
(07:34):
I was yelling at Lance about how we could get
a bit of a partnership going. Lance of course nodded
a lot and wandered back down the other end, and
I'm sure he never heard me. I'm sure he didn't
take much notice of what I was saying. It was
an interesting thing to happen though, because Lance just said
at one stage I'll give it a go, and I
(07:57):
didn't really get a full understanding of what he meant
when he hit the first one, and I think the
first one went wide of mid on and mcgesus how
of a big ground. He hit right in the middle,
and I actually thought, I don't think I've ever seen
anyone hit the ball so far, and I think it
might have been McLay, I can't remember. It was quite
(08:18):
exciting and I sort of said to him at the
end of that over, that's good hitting. You know, you're
really onto it. He just looked at me and wandered
off again, and he was sort of in a daze.
I mean, he was never going to win the game.
He would have had to score about one hundred and
forty for us to get any went close to the
Australian score. I think in the during the partnership, I
(08:41):
went from nought to three and he went from nought
to about forty six or something that I can't remember now.
But he was heading the ball so well. The Australian
team never got upset about it. Obviously they were going
to win the game. I can't say they enjoyed it individually.
The ballers didn't like it, but he hit over mid off.
(09:03):
He hit the big one hander that went wide of
fine leg, very wide down between finding and squealing. It
was basically one hand because his other hand came off
the bat. It was just something that you had to
be there to really believe it was happening. I was
so excited down my end. I remember once at the
(09:24):
start of an over getting a single and Lance nodded
as if I had deliberately tried to give him the strike. Well,
that was not happening. I had no intention of trying
to give him the strike. I was quite keen on
me not having the strike. But it was exciting, it
really was, and it launched something for Lance as well,
(09:44):
because remember he had the Newberry bats which had a
sort of an orangey really sort of stripe across the
top of them. And I think a long time ago,
but I think that's what launched the excal of it,
which was the bat that Lance became really famous for
with the sloping shoulders. And I think really it was
around that time that people were sort of picking up
(10:06):
on different types of bat, and the original old bats,
the endless willows, weren't as popular perhaps as the bats
that were being made on mass in Australia and in India,
and that's what you got Lance's name up in headlines.
Really was it the bat?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Was it him or was it his ability to time
the ball? Because they were sweet sexes, It wasn't. They
weren't miss it as such, they cleared the fence by
quite some considerable margin. How much was it his strength
or how much might have been the bat? And how
heavy was it?
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Was his strength for a start, where if we can
remember Lance Ken's and we remember him mainly with his
bowling action and the size of his shoulders, the handshake
that crushed your fingers, Lance is a big chap And
on his day he could hit the ball very very hard.
Now we watched modern day cricket and they hit the
(11:04):
ball not very hard at all. They used the pace
of the ball and it flies to the boundary which
is now obviously thirty or forty meters short of what
used to be at Melbourne. He hit it clean, and
he hit it, you know, really with the timing he had.
And also I think sometimes you get into a wee
bit of a rhythm. Probably happened once in my life,
(11:25):
I suppose. But he was he was in the mood
and they were bowling in the slot and he just
decided we're not going to win the game, we'll have
some fun. And he didn't show a lot of emotion
mans He just hit it, looked down my way, had
a bit of a smile on it, just a slight
smile on his face, and shrugged his shoulders and waited
(11:47):
for the next delivery. I think I was doing most
of the laughing, and probably probably laughing because I was
at the other end and I was close to the action,
but not I wasn't the action, which was pretty beneficial
for me.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Really well, the Australian bowlers and I mean I can't
imagine Lily accepting being hit for six or Rodney Hogg
being hit for six.
Speaker 5 (12:11):
No, I can't remember them bouncing him, which was either
they weren't giving him credit for coming out and being
a batsman and therefore they thought we could just move
it around off the seam a little bit, or bowl
a slightly slower ball or whatever and we'd get the wicket.
Because I can remember in test matches you would never
(12:33):
have got away with that. You would hit one ball
well for a boundary and you'd know the next one
we got past your nose. They I don't think they
were happy with it, but they were also were never panicking.
They were never going to lose the game. They were
just thinking, well, this can't continue. One six, two six's,
three six's. And I think there was a little bit
(12:55):
of hey, come on, that's enough of that. But Lance
was just as I said before, he was in the mood.
Timing was important, and also the leg side hitting using
his front shoulder and being able to hit it over
what he was aiming at mid wicket. Perhaps if he
hit it earlier went to mid on if you heard it.
(13:15):
If he hit it slightly later, it went finer than that.
It was just one of those occasions that I'm sure
even Lance now will look back on and deep down
it will be we smile on his face.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yes, there would have been a bit of I suppose
liquid refreshment consumed at the mcg bay thirteen or whatever
it was in that place, and they seemed to be
getting excited. It was a case of either is he
going to hit another six? Or when's he going to
get out?
Speaker 5 (13:45):
I think I think the crowd were willing him. They
were willing him on the noise from the crowd and
the hand clapping, the rhythmical hand clapping just got louder
and louder as Lance was as bowlers were running into
Lance and he turned the whole crowd. I mean it
went completely on his side. Of course, Australia, we're going
(14:07):
to win the game. There was no way in New
Zealand we're going to win the game. But they liked
the entertainment and they love the underdog. And the underdog
on that occasion was Lance.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You put on forty eight. I think it was in
a partnership. You faced nine balls and scored three three singles,
quite clearly.
Speaker 5 (14:27):
Yeah, each time trying to give Lance the strike. Don't
take that away. I mean it was quite important. No,
So I was trying to get a single off ball
one or ball two to give Lance the strike, which
was yeah, Lance was looking for that, but I was
encouraging him to come down the other end and to continue.
I don't know why. I don't know why I was
(14:48):
encouraging him, because he just looked blankly at me and
wandered off. The noise of the crowd was probably too
much because he didn't hear much.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Yeah, well, we all knew about Kensey's problem with hearing
as such, during his career. Jerry, you played that match,
not memorable for the result, but Lance playing as only
he seemed capable of.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, he's a classic, he was. He was a very
important part of our team. Lance, you know, obviously for
his bowling. First of all longovers, you know, long long spells,
moved the ball most in most conditions, had varieties, loved
loved trying things out. He used to anger Jeff howerth
(15:37):
a lot. He used to call him Hines the Heinz bowler. Heines.
Of course, they had many different varieties of baked beans
and all sorts of things. So yeah, it was. It
was a shame.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Really.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
We'd played pretty well right throughout that whole series against
England and we'd made the finals. This was the second
final and first one was was a wet affair in
Sydney and it was interrupted and so it suited Australia.
And then this match was I think at the mcg
(16:13):
large ground, big crowd, and yeah, they batted pretty well
and all I remember is them getting a very large score.
I think in those days, anything over three hundred was
massive and they did get over that. I did get
(16:34):
a wicket. Graham Wood fell asleep from hitting me and
missed was a pretty straight one. But apart from that, Wads,
I think I've got a feeling, you know, Kim Hughes
might have been captain instead of Greg Chapel. I think
he was there before Greg Chapel. And yeah, and after
(16:55):
he was pretty patronizing after it he said, oh New
Zealand aren't a bad side. But really we always felt
that England with a team to beat, and we all
felt up felt as if we was going and someone
was going to bomb in Pat's Lance. But perhaps he
didn't hear him either when he spoke, But I I
(17:16):
do remember Wally betting with him actually and having to
hold up his hand and try to try to get
communication with Lance because because I mean there was a
there was a hell of a noise and Lance I
wouldn't have heard him at all. So we'd all sort
of worked out that you had to use hands signals
(17:38):
rather like a traffic officer than those days when the points,
you know, all the lights stop and you so. But
he could certainly hit Kensy. So a disappointing end to
what had been actually a bloody good sort of you know,
series of matches, lots of matches and we got through.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yes, and wonderful memories there from Jeremy Canney and from
Wally Lees. He's going to stay with us and give
us some comments on the Try series as well, and
I love those moments and you can never forget the
way Ken's battered on that occasion and on other occasions
he was very exciting to watch. Not always winning games
for New Zealand, but certainly an entertainer.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Brian Wadall Jeremy Coney on the front foot.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Well, the black Caps have another date with Pakistan and
the Tri Series final, warming up for the champions Trophy
and they're due to meat to Pakistan in Karachi in
the first game. But two from two you can't ask
four better than that, well perhaps you can. There are
a few things to sharpen up. And while he's been
(18:47):
watching the games as well as Jerry, and it does
make for late nights and various things. But interesting to
look at the black Caps. They've been testing out their
new boys. They've been consistent in their selection the same side,
apart from one change because of injury, and the new
(19:08):
boys in the bowling lineup. We've been working with some
of the more experienced players at the top level.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
There is some experience in the bowling attack. The team
have a lot of players who have gone on many
tours and play very few games, and therefore again they're
being exposed now and given the opportunity. It's an important tour.
Williamson's back and I think that's very, very key to
the New Zealand performance. I mean, the black Caps are
(19:37):
searching for the Williamson experience both on the field and
in the dressing room, and I think that's quite important.
I did note that the commentators made quite a lot
of comment about playing South Africa b or not their
top team, and we understand that's the way of the
world in cricket now because players aren't available and some
(20:00):
countries don't always see in the top players. But the
important thing is to win and to win well. And
both games have been really laid quite constructively by the
New Zealand team and everyone seems to be informed or
getting themselves back in form. I think that's quite important
because it's a try series. I suppose it's a wee
(20:23):
bit of experimentation and looking for who's really at the
top of their game when they get to the champions
the big tournament and I think it's a really good
lesson that we learned a couple of years ago when
we appeared on one of these overseas tours and hadn't
taken the time to practice and get practice games. If
you remember, there was a bit of controversy about the
(20:45):
we appeared at one of these tournaments unprepared. Well this time,
I think we've given the players every opportunity and I
think it's pretty successful. I like the way people can
move slightly up and down the order and they're in
good form. And it also gives you the impression that
it's a happy team again, because I really think that
(21:06):
is key to the way we play. We haven't always
fielded well in some of these games recently, and we
need our fielding to be honest. The fielding comes from
a happy team because that's when you that's when you
communicate with each other the most. And I think the
preparations pretty jolly good. But Williamson absolutely key to the
whole thing.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah right, well, he can't disagree and inform. Williamson is
key to any Black Cap side. Just what you were
saying a little bit earlier at the start of the program, Jerry,
that the need for somebody of class and being able
to use his skills and help the team develop it.
It's it's important in the way you go. And they've
(21:48):
made the right sort of start, haven't they.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, he came in early in the first game, didn't he?
When when Young was dismissed and he was he had
to battle in that first and things. It wasn't an
easy pitch for him and and he but he worked out.
He solves problems really well out in the middle and
finally worked a bit of rhythm into his game. And
(22:14):
that's what he does. He doesn't give it away and
play a big shot and get out. He just works
away out And so he got a fifty odd in
that match and had a good partnership with Mitchell who
came in a little later and was able to sort
of play his style as well. But Williamson, he's such
(22:38):
a hard competitor as well. He doesn't appear that way
if he has quite a gentle sort of guy, and
yet he knows exactly what he's trying to do, trying
to work out solutions to certain bowlers and the range
of shots that he can play. And then of course
(22:58):
a very big partnership came in a little bit later
in the second match, once Conway and Young had set fifty,
I think up for the first wicket, and there he
was able to show everybody on a better pitch this
time batting second, just the range of shots that he's gotten.
(23:21):
You can't stop him. He's continually scoring and so he
was over a runner ball easily, I think in that
second innings against South Africa, and in a week in
South Africa, one would say that's not going to be
the side we're going to see in the Champions Trophy.
But nevertheless they had to play well. Conway, of course,
(23:44):
wadds he looks, he looked like he looked the change man.
Really didn't he gone was that, you know, the one
hand on the bat constantly, that the worry about defense,
and he kind of showed us the form that we
saw when he first arrived. Some of the shots through
(24:06):
the covers a perceptible difference really, you know when he
plays that way against the new ball for New Zealand
and a major boost to the side. Mitchell didn't quite
get so many the second innings, but you know, he's
just got to keep pushing himself. He's got to learn
(24:28):
from Williamson about how you keep working and working and
working at it. Latham, of course, look if he's not
scoring runs, He's got two ducks so far, hasn't he
And if you go back into the Sri Lankan series
as well, that wasn't against the in the ode eyes
he didn't bat in the base in reserve and then
(24:50):
Hamilton he got one off the first ball and then
ran himself out going for a second. And then in
the third innings he punched one off the back foot
and was caught backward point first ball. So he's had
a series of low scores now and he just really
needs to get himself in. We haven't got another wicket
(25:10):
keeper over there. Really, I think the days of Conway
and using people like that are gone. We've got to
start start picking keepers, don't we. I mean keeper first,
and if Latham isn't going to score the runs, then
we go to somebody else, our best keeper. But he's
(25:31):
got to get himself in in this competition five or
six balls and get forward or get back and play tightly.
Don't even play a shot if you don't have to.
And really it's not a long term solution. We've always
done these things, and really he's an opener and test matches.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Interesting point made there, Jerry about the wiki keeper and Whalley.
I know you have views on that in terms of
being a former coach and also a former wiki keeper.
Do we need to have a frontline keeper like Mitchay
who they've started about, but he looks totally adequate.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
I think too too often we worry about the lower
middle order as we bat. And I know it doesn't
sound like the question you've asked. What it is that
in the actual fact, we're looking at the second spinner
and we think where will he bat? And we're thinking
about the wicket keeper and thinking, well, where can he that?
(26:33):
And I think you're did right. You've got to have
your best wicket keeper. And if he happens to be
someone who needs to beat at eight because we've got
a second spinner who can bat at seven or a
fourth seaman who can bat at seven, that's so be it.
And I think they're forgetting that the wiki keeper is
a specialist position. It's not an all rounder position. You
don't need to be someone who can can bat it.
(26:57):
Five or six other players can do that job. I
think we've missed the Boat over the last three or
four years a little bit with wicket keeping, and that
it doesn't look like there's a wicket keeping coach. I'm
not saying Warren Leeds is going to be one, so
don't worry, but there's not a wicket keeping coach in
the country who's solely producing wicket keepers. So we've got
(27:19):
lots and lots of part timers and all our first
class teams. I think there's the Otago team, for example,
has got as many as four people who could wicket keep,
and they're all could wiki keep. But I think we
lost the We lost the boat a weaver, but when
we had players were he only fellow cipher it. I
don't know if you remember the name.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
I thought he was a specialist. I thought he was agile,
he had great timing, he had good hands, he was confident.
He was a little cheeky guy, a pit I didn't
even meet him, but he appeared that way, and he
took that attitude to his batting. And he's gone and
he plays around the world. Now I can see that.
But I think we just lost a webit there, and
(28:05):
I think what we need to do now is find
the best keeper and really work on that person that
runout that one handed catch, that person who tidies up
a loose fielding effort by the whole team and watches
the ball bounce in front of him rather than running
forward and catching on the fall and keep the game tidy.
(28:25):
Is very, very important to the overall performance on the
field of the New Zealand team and we need to
have the best keeper.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah, fair point too, Wally. Both you and Jerry clearly
agree on the issue of having a keeper there, a
full time keeper, an expert keeper. I'm not being derogatory
of Conway and Lathan. I've done a great job behind
the stunts for New Zealand over a long period of time,
but I think we've got to get away from that.
As you were saying, getting back to the others who
(28:57):
were talking about previously and Jerry you were talking about,
as Wally, was the importance of Williamson in the side
and learning from him in the dressing room, copying what
he does or using his skills and making part of
the game. I noticed a change in Glenn Phillips with
(29:17):
that hundred. He hasn't been a high score in recent times,
but he spent some time he didn't look as though
he wanted to hit ball one for six and then
every second ball for six. He did the sixth hitting
when it came at happy hour. But that hundred I
thought was a quality innings from Phillips on the first game.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yeah, just what was required really, because New Zealand needed
a bit of a lift, didn't they. And that's what
he supplies for the team. But you can't start from
ball one. Usually was and you know, lobbed the ball
consistently over the boundary. He paced himself, I thought throughout
that first innings when he was batting with Williamson and
(30:03):
then towards the end when he realized Williamson had gone.
At that stage, Latham of course had been dismissed, Mitchell
was gone, and you know brace will had an innings
that's good as well. And then Phillips of course, in
that last stection of that match against Pakistan, showed the
(30:23):
power that he that he had and possesses. So that's
good and that's what he is in that side. So
but he's better than just a slogger, and that's what
he's got to realize. There are plenty of things he
can offer. The Other thing was I think is we're
probably going to need six bowlers. It looks as though
(30:47):
the pictures in Pakistan are going to be high scoring affairs,
and if that's the case, then you know we're going
to probably need a six bowler at some point, and
maybe Phillips is that man. So he did pick up
(31:07):
a wicket that got an lbw I think at some point,
and I just feel he might well be the person
to keep him involved in the game as well, because
he's such a strong fielder, and to use them. And
we've got some young bowlers, as you pointed out right
(31:27):
at the top of the program, you know, like O'Rourke
still and like Sears and you know, particularly those two. Now,
whether Ferguson is coming, I don't know. I don't know
whether he's Has that been decided yet?
Speaker 3 (31:45):
No, well, I mean apparently was. I don't know. We
just have to wait and see Duffy is there as
a backup.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, yeah, Well it's a question of whether they give
Duffy a role in in that case. If they know
Ferguson's not going to be there, they might just want
to give him a role as well in the in
the final. I'm not sure but they'll need to sort
out a few things with the ball. When you're under
pressure and teams are scoring over three hundred against you,
(32:13):
there are going to be awkward parts to the field
and to the bowlers in particular, I think really, I mean,
O'Rourke's an interesting one. Isn't he such a talented young
bowlin And we forget how young he is. He's only
twenty three, I think. But in his od eyes you know,
(32:38):
against Sri Lanka he went for fifty and fifty seven
and then over there he's been he's gone for forty
six or six overs and then ten overs match against
South Africa for seventy two and he's bold in those
five games, three against Sri Lanka and turned Pakistan twenty
three wides. Now that's in five games. That's almost an
(33:02):
extra over, isn't it. You know you're getting towards that
five balls over, you know, five balls per match, and
in that last game he had ten words, So that's
almost two extra overs. You can't afford that, And so
there's something And how we use O'Rourke I think is
(33:25):
important as well. Are we going to use him in
the power play? Is he really a sort of a
six or seven over man, and not at the death
because he tends to drop short a little bit and
that opens up third man over the keeper square on
the off side. And if you're really quick, he doesn't
(33:47):
get his line, then you can go leg side as well.
So if you're going to be a quick bowler in
international cricket and the big score is as you know,
as looming, you have to have a slower ball, I think,
and a good one. And both he and Seers I
shall see has tried a couple and they both went
(34:08):
wides down league side, but at least he was trying something,
and that's got to be something I think that they
need to develop. So they are the key ones as
far as I'm concerned. As far as the bowling is concerned,
I mean, Henry can do his thing. He uses that
shorter ball, he uses the slower ball, and then you're
(34:30):
into the spinners who are actually both bowling quite well.
Braceful has had two good games for the ball.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
And Santa's going to need the variety, isn't he. You
say the sixth bowler is going to be important. We
can't expect the newer bowlers to be a million dollars
right from the odset, I mean sears and OROURQ our
future with pace and they obviously want pace and that's
a that's a good move. That's why they picked Ferguson
(34:57):
as well, to have a little bit of pace in
the lineup. But you know with that also comes those
sort of issues that you talked about, the odd wide
or the fact that they might be a little bit
expensive and satin that needs to be able to use
those players quite judiciously, doesn't he.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yep, that's a challenge for the captain and the player
himself really just has to accept, well, today I may
not get ten overs. He doesn't have to feel he
lets the team down in any way. It's just the
way that it is, and you learn as you go.
It's a great learning experience for those two bowlers. So
(35:37):
Rurke's got the out and outpace and the bounce. He
really had them jumping in the South African innings and
so there's no doubt that both of them have got
their skills and they're worth their place in the side.
It's a different format, it has different questions that it
asks and they've got to then start to learn the
skills and the sets of skills that you require for
(36:01):
that format, and there are the ones that they haven't
perhaps used quite so much, they haven't needed to do,
so they're having to learn on the job, so to speak,
just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Yeah, well that's the development of the side and it's
encouraging to see in the Try Series the development. It's
not the major prize, of course, that's the Champions Trophy.
We'll be keeping up to date with that throughout its progress.
It's over pretty quickly, the Champions Trophy. They get their
games done quick, smart and on the road again. And
of course we'll have Pakistan back here before we know it.
(36:32):
That's coming up a little bit later in the year,
just before we go, Jerry the rise of franchise cricket
and we'll talk a bit more about it, because I
think it's quite a bigger subject than just passing reference.
But from New Zealand's point of view, they've had the
(36:53):
Dream elevens Supersmass New Zealand's own T twenty competition. It's
never going to rival the Ossie Big Besh League that
they have got reasonable crowds, but you know you're not
going to draw in fifty sixty seventy thousand as the
Big Best League does. It obviously works over there. There's
rumors going around that New Zealand might want a franchise
(37:15):
in the Big Best League. What Australia want us? Would
it do anything for our game? Is it worth investigating?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Well, it's certainly worth investigating. You know, you say franchise cricket.
There's there's big movement, isn't there over in the UK
at the moment they started a game And now they've
reached the point after five years where they're selling those
franchised teams which have been owned by the ECB. Now
they're becoming owned well really by the ip ip UK,
(37:45):
isn't it really, And so they're selling those. As far
as New Zealanders consent, doesn't seem to me that we
can sell a hell of a lot. We don't, you know,
as you say, Super Smash can't can't do that. We
can't sell that anywhere. So yeah, I think as far
as as getting a team into the into the Big bashwards,
(38:09):
that would be fantastic for New Zealand, I think not
from a money perspective, I don't think we would make
money from that as a as a you know, as
the New Zealand Cricket Council. I just think that all
we could do is we could use it as a
developmental thing and develop our game in that format. That
would be very handy indeed, But we would still presumably
(38:32):
have to have our marquee players, so the Williamson's there,
the Henry's would be there, you know, the Ravenders and
so on. They would need to be available, I think
to provide the you know, the interest for the Big
Bash themselves, and so I'm sure they would want to
if it was possible to have a team in there,
(38:54):
and if they want an extra side. I don't know
how that would work in terms of have they got
an even number of sides at the moment, I think
they could we have them, so yeah, I don't know
how they'd do that, but anyway, it would make it
a bit longer, but it would certainly be helpful for
New Zealand. I would have thought. I think i'd support that.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah, well, it's interesting proposition. I think there'll be a
lot of people that would be in behind it as well.
But as I say, we can talk about that along
with that hundred scenario, because that is quite interesting at
the moment and the franchise leagues that are growing up
all around the world. We can have a chat about
that in.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
A later program.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
We're running out of time, thanks very much to Wally.
He's had to leave us a little bit early, but
thank you for your contribution, Wally, and also to you Jerry.
You can sit back and have Oh no, there's a
few late nights still ahead, isn't there with the champions Trophy,
so you'll be able to put your feet up and
(39:55):
you won't have to search through the internet to try
and find it as we've had for the warm up games.
I think it'll be live on our TV. Here's hoping
fingers crossed.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah, that'd be good ones. That's that's great, that's great,
so I'm looking forward to it. I hope New Zealand
keep playing well.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
And enduring the sunshine.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
We'll do what Genus YouTube see later fine all the world.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
A qualities of summerting. Do for more from News Talks
at b Listen live on air or online, and keep
our shows with you wherever you go with our podcasts
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk Sat B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on Iheartradios.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Take it on the pad.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
How we don't if you'll get in.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It's a trick.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
It is out.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
The test is over.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Goodness smooths, a beauty.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
It is out here, you guys. This delivery has in
neu uses the Gold.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
On the Front foot with Brian Waddell and Jeremy Cody,
powered by News Talks head be at iHeart Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Hello, here we.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Are again on the front foot and on the front
foot enjoys success and the success has been with the
black Caps so far preparation for the Champions Trophy two
from two and a place in the final.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Odio Cricket hasn't been high on the black Caps gender
in recent years. Just six men just played in the
last twelve to eighteen months previousits Ri Laica earlier this
year and then last year. You're against the Bangladesh So
Jeremy Gunny, this new eras started pretty well, a lot
of new faces there, but encouraging as a build up
(01:24):
to the champions Troping.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, this isn't it's that started as you say, very well.
Two from two a night match where they were set
a target and in a day match where they chased.
So that's good that you're doing both the different questions
and answering. Answering them well, really three point thirty for
six setting and then three hundred and eight for four chasing,
(01:47):
so two wins. Yeah, it's going to be interesting, isn't it.
If you're going to be getting those sorts of totals
three hundred plus. You can't get there just with six's.
You've got to play kind of a bit of orthodox
cricket as well, because the risk you take hitting the
(02:08):
big shots you lose wickets. And I think that's been
the feature for me is that New Zealand have played
generally orthodox cricket strokes. Yes, there have been the odds six,
but they've been down the ground, but they played, you know,
they played properly and that's what I've really enjoyed. Kept
(02:28):
me up a bit later than I wist actually, so
it was pleasing to see some of those batsmen going well,
particularly obviously Williamson is such a key component. When he
returns to the side, he just rijudifies if I could
(02:52):
put these steals up, you know, and tempers the whole
of that top and middle order because he bats through.
And I do hope that others are sort of inhaling
what he does when he arrives. You know, they watch
him at practice, they watch him what he does before
he bets. They watch him in the first four or
(03:13):
five overs and how he works out the shots you
need to play to succeed on that pitch.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, he's been the success and it is always important
part of the New Zealand side when you've got quality
play like that, Well says the tri series a little
bit further. And I'm able to say because we've got
Wally Lees joining the program this week. He's going to
play a part of history. Him and I we replay
(03:42):
from forty two years ago. In fact, we'll start with
it some exciting cricket. It was a losing cause it
was this week in nineteen eighty three, and I've searched
the vault of old commentary. Listen to us lot.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Jerry, Brian Waddell, Jeremy Cooney on the front foot, remember this.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
When they get this.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Time and he's got all it and the diving a
first plus six what with a square leg turned from
two girls?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
When you every one new home comes back and canvas.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
And got a half whatever from them that hit over.
I'm on relief from the seven ends bowl to can
Senno pep square.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
They have defended neer the one hander never the make
amazing shot I think I.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Have ever seen till he comes in and bowls the
Cans again.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
The tiny air w underneath it. It might go off
the top. Evern had a front bl.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yes, how could you forget it? It was only like
yesterday when Lance Cans launched an assault on the pride
of Australia's bowling nineteen eighty three February, and it was
an assault like no others, thick sixes and innings. It
didn't last very long, but then Lance Ken's innings never
(05:12):
lasted very long. But we were watching on TV that
outcome a man who was closer than that was former
New Zealand wicket keeper and Black Caps coach Warren Lees.
You had probably the worst seat in the house. You're
at the other end.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
Yeah, it was once. I don't know how that came about.
I mean, in fact, it also tells you something. I
think I was up higher in the order than Lance
as well, so he came up to join me, I
think at the wicket and yeah, the next half hour
was a surprising amount of cricket and a hugely surprising
amount of hitting. Really it was great.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
And the end result was the game was all over
anyway because you were chasing a massive target and you'd
lost the better part of your top audit.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Well, we had, really and in those days when Australia
took to us, they really got off the mark and
they bat it first and posted a very very competitive score.
I guess it. Halfway we thought, you know, we've got
a chance if we can get started. Well, I think
we're at one stage about five to forty, and really
(06:18):
the game had gone. The only thing you could expect
from from the lower part of the New Zealand team
at that stage would be could we crawel to one
hundred or could someone make their mark on the game
and give us just a little bit of confidence or
a little bit of during in our dressing room, we
wouldn't have expected it to happen the way it did,
but Lance Ken's was someone we leant on pretty heavily,
(06:42):
and you know, the big man that he was. It
was an exciting thing to watch from twenty meters away.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah, I was going to say, would you have had
much of a team talk at that stage in terms
of how are you going to go about it? Or
would he have just taken control of the game. You
were placing the likes of Lawson, Hog, Lily and McLay,
so they weren't such a bad bowling lineup in terms
of seam bowling anyway.
Speaker 5 (07:08):
I remember being at the non striker's end most of
the time, which was where I probably played my best cricket.
But yeah, planning it was was quite interesting. Lance Caf
Lance and I got together right at the start of
that so called partnership and that it was a very
very noisy crowd. That I mean the Australian crowd when
they're winning in those days, was just so loud, and
(07:34):
I was yelling at Lance about how we could get
a bit of a partnership going. Lance of course nodded
a lot and wandered back down the other end, and
I'm sure he never heard me. I'm sure he didn't
take much notice of what I was saying. It was
an interesting thing to happen though, because Lance just said
at one stage I'll give it a go, and I
(07:57):
didn't really get a full understanding of what he meant
when he hit the first one, and I think the
first one went wide of mid on and mcgesus how
of a big ground. He hit right in the middle,
and I actually thought, I don't think I've ever seen
anyone hit the ball so far, and I think it
might have been McLay, I can't remember. It was quite
(08:18):
exciting and I sort of said to him at the
end of that over, that's good hitting. You know, you're
really onto it. He just looked at me and wandered
off again, and he was sort of in a daze.
I mean, he was never going to win the game.
He would have had to score about one hundred and
forty for us to get any went close to the
Australian score. I think in the during the partnership, I
(08:41):
went from nought to three and he went from nought
to about forty six or something that I can't remember now.
But he was heading the ball so well. The Australian
team never got upset about it. Obviously they were going
to win the game. I can't say they enjoyed it individually.
The ballers didn't like it, but he hit over mid off.
(09:03):
He hit the big one hander that went wide of
fine leg, very wide down between finding and squealing. It
was basically one hand because his other hand came off
the bat. It was just something that you had to
be there to really believe it was happening. I was
so excited down my end. I remember once at the
(09:24):
start of an over getting a single and Lance nodded
as if I had deliberately tried to give him the strike. Well,
that was not happening. I had no intention of trying
to give him the strike. I was quite keen on
me not having the strike. But it was exciting, it
really was, and it launched something for Lance as well,
(09:44):
because remember he had the Newberry bats which had a
sort of an orangey really sort of stripe across the
top of them. And I think a long time ago,
but I think that's what launched the excal of it,
which was the bat that Lance became really famous for
with the sloping shoulders. And I think really it was
around that time that people were sort of picking up
(10:06):
on different types of bat, and the original old bats,
the endless willows, weren't as popular perhaps as the bats
that were being made on mass in Australia and in India,
and that's what you got Lance's name up in headlines.
Really was it the bat?
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Was it him or was it his ability to time
the ball? Because they were sweet sexes, It wasn't. They
weren't miss it as such, they cleared the fence by
quite some considerable margin. How much was it his strength
or how much might have been the bat? And how
heavy was it?
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Was his strength for a start, where if we can
remember Lance Ken's and we remember him mainly with his
bowling action and the size of his shoulders, the handshake
that crushed your fingers, Lance is a big chap And
on his day he could hit the ball very very hard.
Now we watched modern day cricket and they hit the
(11:04):
ball not very hard at all. They used the pace
of the ball and it flies to the boundary which
is now obviously thirty or forty meters short of what
used to be at Melbourne. He hit it clean, and
he hit it, you know, really with the timing he had.
And also I think sometimes you get into a wee
bit of a rhythm. Probably happened once in my life,
(11:25):
I suppose. But he was he was in the mood
and they were bowling in the slot and he just
decided we're not going to win the game, we'll have
some fun. And he didn't show a lot of emotion
mans He just hit it, looked down my way, had
a bit of a smile on it, just a slight
smile on his face, and shrugged his shoulders and waited
(11:47):
for the next delivery. I think I was doing most
of the laughing, and probably probably laughing because I was
at the other end and I was close to the action,
but not I wasn't the action, which was pretty beneficial
for me.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Really well, the Australian bowlers and I mean I can't
imagine Lily accepting being hit for six or Rodney Hogg
being hit for six.
Speaker 5 (12:11):
No, I can't remember them bouncing him, which was either
they weren't giving him credit for coming out and being
a batsman and therefore they thought we could just move
it around off the seam a little bit, or bowl
a slightly slower ball or whatever and we'd get the wicket.
Because I can remember in test matches you would never
(12:33):
have got away with that. You would hit one ball
well for a boundary and you'd know the next one
we got past your nose. They I don't think they
were happy with it, but they were also were never panicking.
They were never going to lose the game. They were
just thinking, well, this can't continue. One six, two six's,
three six's. And I think there was a little bit
(12:55):
of hey, come on, that's enough of that. But Lance
was just as I said before, he was in the mood.
Timing was important, and also the leg side hitting using
his front shoulder and being able to hit it over
what he was aiming at mid wicket. Perhaps if he
hit it earlier went to mid on if you heard it.
(13:15):
If he hit it slightly later, it went finer than that.
It was just one of those occasions that I'm sure
even Lance now will look back on and deep down
it will be we smile on his face.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yes, there would have been a bit of I suppose
liquid refreshment consumed at the mcg bay thirteen or whatever
it was in that place, and they seemed to be
getting excited. It was a case of either is he
going to hit another six? Or when's he going to
get out?
Speaker 5 (13:45):
I think I think the crowd were willing him. They
were willing him on the noise from the crowd and
the hand clapping, the rhythmical hand clapping just got louder
and louder as Lance was as bowlers were running into
Lance and he turned the whole crowd. I mean it
went completely on his side. Of course, Australia, we're going
(14:07):
to win the game. There was no way in New
Zealand we're going to win the game. But they liked
the entertainment and they love the underdog. And the underdog
on that occasion was Lance.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You put on forty eight. I think it was in
a partnership. You faced nine balls and scored three three singles,
quite clearly.
Speaker 5 (14:27):
Yeah, each time trying to give Lance the strike. Don't
take that away. I mean it was quite important. No,
So I was trying to get a single off ball
one or ball two to give Lance the strike, which
was yeah, Lance was looking for that, but I was
encouraging him to come down the other end and to continue.
I don't know why. I don't know why I was
(14:48):
encouraging him, because he just looked blankly at me and
wandered off. The noise of the crowd was probably too
much because he didn't hear much.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Yeah, well, we all knew about Kensey's problem with hearing
as such, during his career. Jerry, you played that match,
not memorable for the result, but Lance playing as only
he seemed capable of.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, he's a classic, he was. He was a very
important part of our team. Lance, you know, obviously for
his bowling. First of all longovers, you know, long long spells,
moved the ball most in most conditions, had varieties, loved
loved trying things out. He used to anger Jeff howerth
(15:37):
a lot. He used to call him Hines the Heinz bowler. Heines.
Of course, they had many different varieties of baked beans
and all sorts of things. So yeah, it was. It
was a shame.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Really.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
We'd played pretty well right throughout that whole series against
England and we'd made the finals. This was the second
final and first one was was a wet affair in
Sydney and it was interrupted and so it suited Australia.
And then this match was I think at the mcg
(16:13):
large ground, big crowd, and yeah, they batted pretty well
and all I remember is them getting a very large score.
I think in those days, anything over three hundred was
massive and they did get over that. I did get
(16:34):
a wicket. Graham Wood fell asleep from hitting me and
missed was a pretty straight one. But apart from that, Wads,
I think I've got a feeling, you know, Kim Hughes
might have been captain instead of Greg Chapel. I think
he was there before Greg Chapel. And yeah, and after
(16:55):
he was pretty patronizing after it he said, oh New
Zealand aren't a bad side. But really we always felt
that England with a team to beat, and we all
felt up felt as if we was going and someone
was going to bomb in Pat's Lance. But perhaps he
didn't hear him either when he spoke, But I I
(17:16):
do remember Wally betting with him actually and having to
hold up his hand and try to try to get
communication with Lance because because I mean there was a
there was a hell of a noise and Lance I
wouldn't have heard him at all. So we'd all sort
of worked out that you had to use hands signals
(17:38):
rather like a traffic officer than those days when the points,
you know, all the lights stop and you so. But
he could certainly hit Kensy. So a disappointing end to
what had been actually a bloody good sort of you know,
series of matches, lots of matches and we got through.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yes, and wonderful memories there from Jeremy Canney and from
Wally Lees. He's going to stay with us and give
us some comments on the Try series as well, and
I love those moments and you can never forget the
way Ken's battered on that occasion and on other occasions
he was very exciting to watch. Not always winning games
for New Zealand, but certainly an entertainer.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Brian Wadall Jeremy Coney on the front foot.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Well, the black Caps have another date with Pakistan and
the Tri Series final, warming up for the champions Trophy
and they're due to meat to Pakistan in Karachi in
the first game. But two from two you can't ask
four better than that, well perhaps you can. There are
a few things to sharpen up. And while he's been
(18:47):
watching the games as well as Jerry, and it does
make for late nights and various things. But interesting to
look at the black Caps. They've been testing out their
new boys. They've been consistent in their selection the same side,
apart from one change because of injury, and the new
(19:08):
boys in the bowling lineup. We've been working with some
of the more experienced players at the top level.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
There is some experience in the bowling attack. The team
have a lot of players who have gone on many
tours and play very few games, and therefore again they're
being exposed now and given the opportunity. It's an important tour.
Williamson's back and I think that's very, very key to
the New Zealand performance. I mean, the black Caps are
(19:37):
searching for the Williamson experience both on the field and
in the dressing room, and I think that's quite important.
I did note that the commentators made quite a lot
of comment about playing South Africa b or not their
top team, and we understand that's the way of the
world in cricket now because players aren't available and some
(20:00):
countries don't always see in the top players. But the
important thing is to win and to win well. And
both games have been really laid quite constructively by the
New Zealand team and everyone seems to be informed or
getting themselves back in form. I think that's quite important
because it's a try series. I suppose it's a wee
(20:23):
bit of experimentation and looking for who's really at the
top of their game when they get to the champions
the big tournament and I think it's a really good
lesson that we learned a couple of years ago when
we appeared on one of these overseas tours and hadn't
taken the time to practice and get practice games. If
you remember, there was a bit of controversy about the
(20:45):
we appeared at one of these tournaments unprepared. Well this time,
I think we've given the players every opportunity and I
think it's pretty successful. I like the way people can
move slightly up and down the order and they're in
good form. And it also gives you the impression that
it's a happy team again, because I really think that
(21:06):
is key to the way we play. We haven't always
fielded well in some of these games recently, and we
need our fielding to be honest. The fielding comes from
a happy team because that's when you that's when you
communicate with each other the most. And I think the
preparations pretty jolly good. But Williamson absolutely key to the
whole thing.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah right, well, he can't disagree and inform. Williamson is
key to any Black Cap side. Just what you were
saying a little bit earlier at the start of the program, Jerry,
that the need for somebody of class and being able
to use his skills and help the team develop it.
It's it's important in the way you go. And they've
(21:48):
made the right sort of start, haven't they.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, he came in early in the first game, didn't he?
When when Young was dismissed and he was he had
to battle in that first and things. It wasn't an
easy pitch for him and and he but he worked out.
He solves problems really well out in the middle and
finally worked a bit of rhythm into his game. And
(22:14):
that's what he does. He doesn't give it away and
play a big shot and get out. He just works
away out And so he got a fifty odd in
that match and had a good partnership with Mitchell who
came in a little later and was able to sort
of play his style as well. But Williamson, he's such
(22:38):
a hard competitor as well. He doesn't appear that way
if he has quite a gentle sort of guy, and
yet he knows exactly what he's trying to do, trying
to work out solutions to certain bowlers and the range
of shots that he can play. And then of course
(22:58):
a very big partnership came in a little bit later
in the second match, once Conway and Young had set fifty,
I think up for the first wicket, and there he
was able to show everybody on a better pitch this
time batting second, just the range of shots that he's gotten.
(23:21):
You can't stop him. He's continually scoring and so he
was over a runner ball easily, I think in that
second innings against South Africa, and in a week in
South Africa, one would say that's not going to be
the side we're going to see in the Champions Trophy.
But nevertheless they had to play well. Conway, of course,
(23:44):
wadds he looks, he looked like he looked the change man.
Really didn't he gone was that, you know, the one
hand on the bat constantly, that the worry about defense,
and he kind of showed us the form that we
saw when he first arrived. Some of the shots through
(24:06):
the covers a perceptible difference really, you know when he
plays that way against the new ball for New Zealand
and a major boost to the side. Mitchell didn't quite
get so many the second innings, but you know, he's
just got to keep pushing himself. He's got to learn
(24:28):
from Williamson about how you keep working and working and
working at it. Latham, of course, look if he's not
scoring runs, He's got two ducks so far, hasn't he
And if you go back into the Sri Lankan series
as well, that wasn't against the in the ode eyes
he didn't bat in the base in reserve and then
(24:50):
Hamilton he got one off the first ball and then
ran himself out going for a second. And then in
the third innings he punched one off the back foot
and was caught backward point first ball. So he's had
a series of low scores now and he just really
needs to get himself in. We haven't got another wicket
(25:10):
keeper over there. Really, I think the days of Conway
and using people like that are gone. We've got to
start start picking keepers, don't we. I mean keeper first,
and if Latham isn't going to score the runs, then
we go to somebody else, our best keeper. But he's
(25:31):
got to get himself in in this competition five or
six balls and get forward or get back and play tightly.
Don't even play a shot if you don't have to.
And really it's not a long term solution. We've always
done these things, and really he's an opener and test matches.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Interesting point made there, Jerry about the wiki keeper and Whalley.
I know you have views on that in terms of
being a former coach and also a former wiki keeper.
Do we need to have a frontline keeper like Mitchay
who they've started about, but he looks totally adequate.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
I think too too often we worry about the lower
middle order as we bat. And I know it doesn't
sound like the question you've asked. What it is that
in the actual fact, we're looking at the second spinner
and we think where will he bat? And we're thinking
about the wicket keeper and thinking, well, where can he that?
(26:33):
And I think you're did right. You've got to have
your best wicket keeper. And if he happens to be
someone who needs to beat at eight because we've got
a second spinner who can bat at seven or a
fourth seaman who can bat at seven, that's so be it.
And I think they're forgetting that the wiki keeper is
a specialist position. It's not an all rounder position. You
don't need to be someone who can can bat it.
(26:57):
Five or six other players can do that job. I
think we've missed the Boat over the last three or
four years a little bit with wicket keeping, and that
it doesn't look like there's a wicket keeping coach. I'm
not saying Warren Leeds is going to be one, so
don't worry, but there's not a wicket keeping coach in
the country who's solely producing wicket keepers. So we've got
(27:19):
lots and lots of part timers and all our first
class teams. I think there's the Otago team, for example,
has got as many as four people who could wicket keep,
and they're all could wiki keep. But I think we
lost the We lost the boat a weaver, but when
we had players were he only fellow cipher it. I
don't know if you remember the name.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
I thought he was a specialist. I thought he was agile,
he had great timing, he had good hands, he was confident.
He was a little cheeky guy, a pit I didn't
even meet him, but he appeared that way, and he
took that attitude to his batting. And he's gone and
he plays around the world. Now I can see that.
But I think we just lost a webit there, and
(28:05):
I think what we need to do now is find
the best keeper and really work on that person that
runout that one handed catch, that person who tidies up
a loose fielding effort by the whole team and watches
the ball bounce in front of him rather than running
forward and catching on the fall and keep the game tidy.
(28:25):
Is very, very important to the overall performance on the
field of the New Zealand team and we need to
have the best keeper.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah, fair point too, Wally. Both you and Jerry clearly
agree on the issue of having a keeper there, a
full time keeper, an expert keeper. I'm not being derogatory
of Conway and Lathan. I've done a great job behind
the stunts for New Zealand over a long period of time,
but I think we've got to get away from that.
As you were saying, getting back to the others who
(28:57):
were talking about previously and Jerry you were talking about,
as Wally, was the importance of Williamson in the side
and learning from him in the dressing room, copying what
he does or using his skills and making part of
the game. I noticed a change in Glenn Phillips with
(29:17):
that hundred. He hasn't been a high score in recent times,
but he spent some time he didn't look as though
he wanted to hit ball one for six and then
every second ball for six. He did the sixth hitting
when it came at happy hour. But that hundred I
thought was a quality innings from Phillips on the first game.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yeah, just what was required really, because New Zealand needed
a bit of a lift, didn't they. And that's what
he supplies for the team. But you can't start from
ball one. Usually was and you know, lobbed the ball
consistently over the boundary. He paced himself, I thought throughout
that first innings when he was batting with Williamson and
(30:03):
then towards the end when he realized Williamson had gone.
At that stage, Latham of course had been dismissed, Mitchell
was gone, and you know brace will had an innings
that's good as well. And then Phillips of course, in
that last stection of that match against Pakistan, showed the
(30:23):
power that he that he had and possesses. So that's
good and that's what he is in that side. So
but he's better than just a slogger, and that's what
he's got to realize. There are plenty of things he
can offer. The Other thing was I think is we're
probably going to need six bowlers. It looks as though
(30:47):
the pictures in Pakistan are going to be high scoring affairs,
and if that's the case, then you know we're going
to probably need a six bowler at some point, and
maybe Phillips is that man. So he did pick up
(31:07):
a wicket that got an lbw I think at some point,
and I just feel he might well be the person
to keep him involved in the game as well, because
he's such a strong fielder, and to use them. And
we've got some young bowlers, as you pointed out right
(31:27):
at the top of the program, you know, like O'Rourke
still and like Sears and you know, particularly those two. Now,
whether Ferguson is coming, I don't know. I don't know
whether he's Has that been decided yet?
Speaker 3 (31:45):
No, well, I mean apparently was. I don't know. We
just have to wait and see Duffy is there as
a backup.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, yeah, Well it's a question of whether they give
Duffy a role in in that case. If they know
Ferguson's not going to be there, they might just want
to give him a role as well in the in
the final. I'm not sure but they'll need to sort
out a few things with the ball. When you're under
pressure and teams are scoring over three hundred against you,
(32:13):
there are going to be awkward parts to the field
and to the bowlers in particular, I think really, I mean,
O'Rourke's an interesting one. Isn't he such a talented young
bowlin And we forget how young he is. He's only
twenty three, I think. But in his od eyes you know,
(32:38):
against Sri Lanka he went for fifty and fifty seven
and then over there he's been he's gone for forty
six or six overs and then ten overs match against
South Africa for seventy two and he's bold in those
five games, three against Sri Lanka and turned Pakistan twenty
three wides. Now that's in five games. That's almost an
(33:02):
extra over, isn't it. You know you're getting towards that
five balls over, you know, five balls per match, and
in that last game he had ten words, So that's
almost two extra overs. You can't afford that, And so
there's something And how we use O'Rourke I think is
(33:25):
important as well. Are we going to use him in
the power play? Is he really a sort of a
six or seven over man, and not at the death
because he tends to drop short a little bit and
that opens up third man over the keeper square on
the off side. And if you're really quick, he doesn't
(33:47):
get his line, then you can go leg side as well.
So if you're going to be a quick bowler in
international cricket and the big score is as you know,
as looming, you have to have a slower ball, I think,
and a good one. And both he and Seers I
shall see has tried a couple and they both went
(34:08):
wides down league side, but at least he was trying something,
and that's got to be something I think that they
need to develop. So they are the key ones as
far as I'm concerned. As far as the bowling is concerned,
I mean, Henry can do his thing. He uses that
shorter ball, he uses the slower ball, and then you're
(34:30):
into the spinners who are actually both bowling quite well.
Braceful has had two good games for the ball.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
And Santa's going to need the variety, isn't he. You
say the sixth bowler is going to be important. We
can't expect the newer bowlers to be a million dollars
right from the odset, I mean sears and OROURQ our
future with pace and they obviously want pace and that's
a that's a good move. That's why they picked Ferguson
(34:57):
as well, to have a little bit of pace in
the lineup. But you know with that also comes those
sort of issues that you talked about, the odd wide
or the fact that they might be a little bit
expensive and satin that needs to be able to use
those players quite judiciously, doesn't he.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yep, that's a challenge for the captain and the player
himself really just has to accept, well, today I may
not get ten overs. He doesn't have to feel he
lets the team down in any way. It's just the
way that it is, and you learn as you go.
It's a great learning experience for those two bowlers. So
(35:37):
Rurke's got the out and outpace and the bounce. He
really had them jumping in the South African innings and
so there's no doubt that both of them have got
their skills and they're worth their place in the side.
It's a different format, it has different questions that it
asks and they've got to then start to learn the
skills and the sets of skills that you require for
(36:01):
that format, and there are the ones that they haven't
perhaps used quite so much, they haven't needed to do,
so they're having to learn on the job, so to speak,
just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Yeah, well that's the development of the side and it's
encouraging to see in the Try Series the development. It's
not the major prize, of course, that's the Champions Trophy.
We'll be keeping up to date with that throughout its progress.
It's over pretty quickly, the Champions Trophy. They get their
games done quick, smart and on the road again. And
of course we'll have Pakistan back here before we know it.
(36:32):
That's coming up a little bit later in the year,
just before we go, Jerry the rise of franchise cricket
and we'll talk a bit more about it, because I
think it's quite a bigger subject than just passing reference.
But from New Zealand's point of view, they've had the
(36:53):
Dream elevens Supersmass New Zealand's own T twenty competition. It's
never going to rival the Ossie Big Besh League that
they have got reasonable crowds, but you know you're not
going to draw in fifty sixty seventy thousand as the
Big Best League does. It obviously works over there. There's
rumors going around that New Zealand might want a franchise
(37:15):
in the Big Best League. What Australia want us? Would
it do anything for our game? Is it worth investigating?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Well, it's certainly worth investigating. You know, you say franchise cricket.
There's there's big movement, isn't there over in the UK
at the moment they started a game And now they've
reached the point after five years where they're selling those
franchised teams which have been owned by the ECB. Now
they're becoming owned well really by the ip ip UK,
(37:45):
isn't it really, And so they're selling those. As far
as New Zealanders consent, doesn't seem to me that we
can sell a hell of a lot. We don't, you know,
as you say, Super Smash can't can't do that. We
can't sell that anywhere. So yeah, I think as far
as as getting a team into the into the Big bashwards,
(38:09):
that would be fantastic for New Zealand, I think not
from a money perspective, I don't think we would make
money from that as a as a you know, as
the New Zealand Cricket Council. I just think that all
we could do is we could use it as a
developmental thing and develop our game in that format. That
would be very handy indeed, But we would still presumably
(38:32):
have to have our marquee players, so the Williamson's there,
the Henry's would be there, you know, the Ravenders and
so on. They would need to be available, I think
to provide the you know, the interest for the Big
Bash themselves, and so I'm sure they would want to
if it was possible to have a team in there,
(38:54):
and if they want an extra side. I don't know
how that would work in terms of have they got
an even number of sides at the moment, I think
they could we have them, so yeah, I don't know
how they'd do that, but anyway, it would make it
a bit longer, but it would certainly be helpful for
New Zealand. I would have thought. I think i'd support that.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah, well, it's interesting proposition. I think there'll be a
lot of people that would be in behind it as well.
But as I say, we can talk about that along
with that hundred scenario, because that is quite interesting at
the moment and the franchise leagues that are growing up
all around the world. We can have a chat about
that in.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
A later program.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
We're running out of time, thanks very much to Wally.
He's had to leave us a little bit early, but
thank you for your contribution, Wally, and also to you Jerry.
You can sit back and have Oh no, there's a
few late nights still ahead, isn't there with the champions Trophy,
so you'll be able to put your feet up and
(39:55):
you won't have to search through the internet to try
and find it as we've had for the warm up games.
I think it'll be live on our TV. Here's hoping
fingers crossed.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah, that'd be good ones. That's that's great, that's great,
so I'm looking forward to it. I hope New Zealand
keep playing well.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
And enduring the sunshine.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
We'll do what Genus YouTube see later fine all the world.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
A qualities of summerting. Do for more from News Talks
at b Listen live on air or online, and keep
our shows with you wherever you go with our podcasts
on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.