February 15, 2025 • 14 mins
Labour's leader has labelled anti-LGBTQ protests 'pathetic'.
People linked to Destiny Church stormed a children's drag event at a west Auckland library, leading to some 30 people had being barricaded inside.
Later, police intervened when a group disrupted Pride Parade festivities on Ponsonby Road with a haka.
Chris Hipkins says we have free speech in New Zealand, but it's not that.
He says that sort of behaviour isn't an exercise in free speech - it's shouting other people down and stopping them from what they're free to do in a democratic country.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
EDB and in a moment we're going to be having
a chat with Chris Hipkins. The looking at the country's
political landscape. So David Seymour thinks the opposition is quote
veering sharply end quote from the centrist approach we've seen
from previous Labor governments. He argues that Labor Party has
(00:27):
removed radically to the left and accuses them of abandon
abandoning economic orthodoxy. The bubs came during a week where
Seymour had been under fire for a couple of things.
The Polkinghorn letter I thinks a week or so ago,
and then driving a land driver a couple of steps
up Parliament steps and Labor Leader Chris Hipkins was calling
for his sacking and two poles show a left leaning
(00:49):
a left lean shift to the left, should I say,
with the coalition dropping in favorability and Labor Leader Leader
of the Opposition, Chris Hipkins joins me, Now, good afternoon,
good afternoon. Have you recovered from you around the bays
this morning in Wellington?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm contemplating having a little mid afternoon nap, to be honest,
it's the recovery is going all right, but eight and
a half ks was a little more.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
But does that mean I'm going to be able to
slip in a couple of tough questions and you'll let
them slide because you're just like I need a nap.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Well, it's always a bit of a risk doing an
interview when you're tired after a long run. You're never
quite sure what's going to happen. You know, they've given
to go and see what happened.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Actually, just quickly talking about polarized politics. Bryan Tummocky and
his protest. I thought you went quite light on him
in your tweet. Were you sentenceding being a man? He
was a bit of a boy. You must have been
resisting some stronger language.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Well, I think Brian Hammicky's actions there are absolutely pathetic.
I mean, you know we have the spects in New
Zealand and that you know that sort of behavior isn't
an exercise of free speech. Actually, it's shouting other people
down and stopping them, you know, doing what they're free
to do in a democratic country like you Zealand. And
It's not a good he's not a good role model. Actually,
(02:08):
he's a terrible role model for children and for men,
and so I think, you know, he does not speak
for real men up and down the country. I think
most would be pretty appalled by his baby.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, well, getting onto the people are actually in government
right now. Do you think that politics is becoming more
polarized on the you know, and this is obviously referring
to the comments of David Cymore earlier in the week.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Oh, I think you know, there's there's a certain desperation
on the part of particularly sort of David Seymour and
to some extent New Zealand first, to sort of try
and be the New Zealand answer to Donald Trump, you know,
with a much more polarizing approach to politics. And I
don't think it's working really in New Zealand. I don't
think that's where New Zealanders are at. I think they
want to see politicians actually trying to be constructive, sensible
(02:55):
and solve the problems facing the country rather than kind
of run around and trying to demonize minorities and you know,
and really destroys attention from the issues that actually people
care about, which is whether they've got a house to
live in where they've got a good job that's paying
them enough so that they can pay their bills, whether
we're leaving the place in a better state than we
(03:17):
found it for the next generation.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I think he's trying to demonize you guys actually forgetting
about the sort of the other people you were talking about.
But do you does he have a case that you
guys are in danger of sort of slipping to the left.
I guess when you talk about the coalition from the
recent polls would mean you'd have to not only be
in the political bed with the Greens, but it's also
with the Mari Party, who are a tough swallow for
many in the electorate.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, I mean, I think one of the things about
m MP is that parties do have to work with
other parties. I'd say, you know, the fact that we've
currently got a situation where the ex Party, with less
than ten percent of the vote, I think when they
get about acts or nine percent of the vote are
now seemed to be running the government now, isn't an
inevitable outcome of MMP. I mean, it shows how weak
(04:00):
the kind of current National Party is that they're letting
the X Party call all the shots. You know, MMP
doesn't have to work that way. The majority or the
party that gets the biggest cheer of the vote should
within the government should still be the party that actually
carries the most way. That doesn't seem to be the
case at the moment.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
How would you manage a situation if, in the event
that the electric delivers a potential win for you, if
you team up with the Mari Party and somebody like
rowdy Y T says well, I'm not going to go
into business with you unless you have an overseeing authority
that can basically veto or vet every decision Parliament makes.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Well, I've already said we just wouldn't agree to that.
I mean, you've got to have some bottom lines here,
and the respects of democracy is one of them. You know,
we don't allow the courts to overturn the rules that
are made by Parliament. We wouldn't allow a commissioner or
any other kind of role to overturn the laws that
are made by parliament. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Are you pleased that Barbara Edwrams was invited to be
part of that investment seminar along with the government and
all the investors they're talking to.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Oh yeah, I think that's a good thing. I mean,
we're certainly in favor of investment New Zealand. The real
question is what kind of investment are we hoping to attract.
If it's investment into New Zealand companies, you know, building businesses,
making sure that we're creating jobs for New Zealanders, we
think that's a good thing. It's you know, carving up
the country sort of the country's existing assets for overseas
(05:24):
investors so that more dividends can flow off. Sure A,
we're a bit more skeptical about that if it means
you know, residential houses being pit brought up by people
who live overseas. That's not going to be good for
New Zealand home buyers. So, you know, I think overseas
investment in the right areas is very important for the
New Zealand economy.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Do you think that there can be more common ground
between say Barbara Edmunds and Nicola Willis when it comes
to economics, because it does seem that, especially with tax policy,
that there'll be one rule and there's an election, then
there's all of a sudden another rule, and I think
a lot of people want a bit more. I don't know,
not so much surging from one position to another.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I think it's hard to find common ground when one
half of that equation doesn't have any idea what they're
doing and find the case of.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Nicollis, that's not a good sign to say that really
isn't well.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
In the case of Nicola Willis, I mean, I just
think she doesn't seem to have a clue from one
day to the next what she's doing. I mean, talking
about economic growth doesn't grow the economy. She's released a
bunch of bullet points that actually are pretty much the
same stuff that you know that's been tried over the
last thirty or forty years that hasn't worked. Ultimately, there
are some structural imbalances in our economy that are holding
(06:32):
back our economic potential. In this government don't seem to
have a plan to deal with any of them.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
When you mean structural balances, how do you define that?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Well. One of our problems is at the moment we
really incentivize speculative investment rather than productive investment. If you
want to make money for your retirement, if you want
to save money for your entirement, if you're investing your
retirement in a moment, buying rental houses is actually one
of the best ways of doing that, rather than putting
your money into a building a business that might create
jobs and economic growth for the country. We've got to
(07:01):
have a serious look at that. I mean, this is
this is not a radical left wing ideas. This is
actually something that mainstream economists are telling governments, you know,
every government in New Zealand for the last little while,
and that we've got to look at the imbalances that
we've got here. Why is it that at the moment
the default position for kiwis is to biental properties. I
do you want to invest rather than invest in businesses
(07:23):
that might create jobs and a better future for the country.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
To be fair, I mean, at the moment it doesn't
look like a lot of people are buying investment properties.
But I take your point on that. How would you
describe your politics then personally? Because you'll remember I don't
know whether it was John Key, but maybe Helen Clark
and other prime ministers have often talked about it's dominating
the middle. If I didn't know you where in another
country and I met you and you said you're the
leader of the Labor Party in New Zealand, and I said,
(07:48):
what are your personal politics, How would you describe yours
where you sit on the spectrum?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Well, I mean there's a couple of different labels you
can attached to it. I mean I'm a center left politician,
so you know that there's a center left politician. Social
Democrats would be the probably the nearest description if you
look around the world for other political parties of a
similar elk to labor in New Zealand with they describe
themselves as social democratic parties.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Okay, do you think that we are becoming more polarized
when you look at them in comparison to what we
see going on in the States and in Germany with
the rise of the AfD and other sorts of politics.
How do you think we sit in terms of polarization?
Regardless of your personal differences with certain politicians in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I actually think New Zealand is largely you're rejecting that
style of politics. You know, New Zealanders wanted more of
that than you know. Frankly, David Cymore of the ex
Party New Zealand First Party would be massively oupholding everybody else.
They're not, And I think that's a sign that actually
New Zealanders don't see that as being and keeping with
ki we values. You know, we do want to be
a more inclusive country. We do want to be a
(08:52):
country that's kind of focused on the issues rather than
focused on demonizing people. And you know, I think that
we should all be feeling encouraged by that.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Who is he demonizing.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
David Seymour. I mean, but if you look at it,
let's look at who the government have been attacking in
the last couple of weeks. They've attacked people, They've attacked
pretty much the entire Rainbow community. They've been attacking I mean,
depending on who you're looking at. You know, Shane Jones
basically is calling anybody who doesn't think that we should
(09:25):
dig up the country woke. You've got David Seymour basically
saying anyone who's in favor of regulation of any description
whatsoever is holding the country back. I'm trying to remember what.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Soun like demonizing. That just sounds like a political point
of view.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Well, no, not at all. I mean when you say
that most of the country, which seems to be David
Seymour's view, a coalition to mediocrity, I think you are
starting to demonize people at that point.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
What I mean is I don't think there are any
particular individuals who'd suddenly feel threatened by him saying that
they would just see that as a political view rather
than some sort of isolating and marginalizing attack.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I think you've got to consider it in the context
of the whole government though. So I mean, if you
look at you know, right since since the election, they've
been picking people off. So we have the disability care
as these are people who in many cases earn very
little money to look after people with disabilities being accused
of ripping off the system. You know, they did feel
demonized and targeted. Okay. You know you've got constant statements
(10:23):
about public servants, tapers, nurses and others, you know, with
all sorts of aspersions being cast on their work, ethic
and so on. I think it's you've got a government
now that's very much focused on punching down on people.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Okay, just looking a little further afield outside of New Zealand.
So it's all very well with our domestic arguments. Are
you worried about the global sort of polarization and if
I to put it more broadly, global security, we've got
putin looking about he's about to get much of his
own way in Ukraine. Potentially, Trump wants Gaza as a
USA resources as Mediterranean paradise. Are you worried about global
(11:01):
security and our role in maintaining.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
That, well, I think we definitely need to be looking
at what's happening around the rest of the world with
a degree of caution. It's not a time for New
Zealand to buy into that polarization of world politics, you know.
I think that this idea that we have to you know,
in a US China trade war, for example, that we
have to pack aside I think that's something New Zealand
(11:26):
should strenuously reject. We've been independent in our foreign policy
for a good thirty forty years now, and I think
now more than ever, it's really important that we continue
to be independent. Well.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Do we need to have more a defense infrastructure?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I mean, I think it depends what you're talking about.
We've certainly got some defense infrastructure that's going to need
some work. Our naval fleet needs some work. We spent
a lot of money in the fund Aware and Government
upgrading the Air Force fleet, so the orions replaced, the
hercules were replaced. Quite a lot of money spent on
the army's kit, you know, and making sure that they
(12:04):
have what they needed. I think the Navy's still got there.
We've still got some work to do there. We've got
to really consider what does New Zealand strategically need. So
if you look at what our navy gets called on
to do, it's often things like assisting with search and rescue,
assisting with natural disasters, particularly in the Pacific, also work
in the Southern Ocean, and so I'm not sure that
(12:26):
we've got the naval fleet it's quite right for what
we need it to be. So yeah, I think we
do need to spend money on those.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
What about in terms of battle capabilities if in the
event that you know, things start to go pear shaped
in Europe in a few years time or more or
closer to that, are you worried about that?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Well, yeah, of course, But it depends what sort of
what New Zealand's contribution to those efforts might be. You know,
us having combat naval capability, for example down here in
the Southern Ocean might not necessarily be the most useful
contribution that New Zealand could make.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Is there any spending and that you would support then?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
As I've said I just mentioned some. I mean, I
think we do need to look at our naval fleet capability.
For example, you know, the Southern Ocean right on our
back door set. We don't have any ice breaking capability
in our naval fleet, and that's probably something that we
do need to think about, you know, to think about
where we are in the world and what kind of
capability we need given where we are. If you look
you look at them in the tragedy of the monu Anui,
(13:30):
is that actually that is the sort of capability we need.
That kind of ocean surveillance capability, that research and surveillance
capability that was on board the Monowennui which is now
at the bottom of the sea, that is actually the
sort of capability our navy needs.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, I didn't mean this to term to such a
tool about defense, But just looking back, do you think
it's a shame that we never got went with those
f sixteens?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
No, I don't think so, because again I think if
you think about where we are in the world, I'm
not so that these sixteens would be the highest priority
for our defense spending.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Okay, hey, Chris, I really appreciate your time. This afternoon,
and good luck with recovering. I think it's the day
after tomorrow you'll feel the pain.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, generally it's the day after the day after, isn't
it so coming to look forward.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
To you, Well, look forward to seeing some comment about
that further on, and that is thanks for your time.
That's Chris hip Cans easily the opposition. We're gonna have
a chat with David Seymour in just a moment about
the same question about the polarization of politics, but we'll
also touch on the international situation as well and what
David thinks we should be doing there, But of course
that'll be after the break.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
It's for more from the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Listen live to News Talk Said Be weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
EDB and in a moment we're going to be having
a chat with Chris Hipkins. The looking at the country's
political landscape. So David Seymour thinks the opposition is quote
veering sharply end quote from the centrist approach we've seen
from previous Labor governments. He argues that Labor Party has
(00:27):
removed radically to the left and accuses them of abandon
abandoning economic orthodoxy. The bubs came during a week where
Seymour had been under fire for a couple of things.
The Polkinghorn letter I thinks a week or so ago,
and then driving a land driver a couple of steps
up Parliament steps and Labor Leader Chris Hipkins was calling
for his sacking and two poles show a left leaning
(00:49):
a left lean shift to the left, should I say,
with the coalition dropping in favorability and Labor Leader Leader
of the Opposition, Chris Hipkins joins me, Now, good afternoon,
good afternoon. Have you recovered from you around the bays
this morning in Wellington?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm contemplating having a little mid afternoon nap, to be honest,
it's the recovery is going all right, but eight and
a half ks was a little more.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
But does that mean I'm going to be able to
slip in a couple of tough questions and you'll let
them slide because you're just like I need a nap.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Well, it's always a bit of a risk doing an
interview when you're tired after a long run. You're never
quite sure what's going to happen. You know, they've given
to go and see what happened.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Actually, just quickly talking about polarized politics. Bryan Tummocky and
his protest. I thought you went quite light on him
in your tweet. Were you sentenceding being a man? He
was a bit of a boy. You must have been
resisting some stronger language.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Well, I think Brian Hammicky's actions there are absolutely pathetic.
I mean, you know we have the spects in New
Zealand and that you know that sort of behavior isn't
an exercise of free speech. Actually, it's shouting other people
down and stopping them, you know, doing what they're free
to do in a democratic country like you Zealand. And
It's not a good he's not a good role model. Actually,
(02:08):
he's a terrible role model for children and for men,
and so I think, you know, he does not speak
for real men up and down the country. I think
most would be pretty appalled by his baby.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, well, getting onto the people are actually in government
right now. Do you think that politics is becoming more
polarized on the you know, and this is obviously referring
to the comments of David Cymore earlier in the week.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Oh, I think you know, there's there's a certain desperation
on the part of particularly sort of David Seymour and
to some extent New Zealand first, to sort of try
and be the New Zealand answer to Donald Trump, you know,
with a much more polarizing approach to politics. And I
don't think it's working really in New Zealand. I don't
think that's where New Zealanders are at. I think they
want to see politicians actually trying to be constructive, sensible
(02:55):
and solve the problems facing the country rather than kind
of run around and trying to demonize minorities and you know,
and really destroys attention from the issues that actually people
care about, which is whether they've got a house to
live in where they've got a good job that's paying
them enough so that they can pay their bills, whether
we're leaving the place in a better state than we
(03:17):
found it for the next generation.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I think he's trying to demonize you guys actually forgetting
about the sort of the other people you were talking about.
But do you does he have a case that you
guys are in danger of sort of slipping to the left.
I guess when you talk about the coalition from the
recent polls would mean you'd have to not only be
in the political bed with the Greens, but it's also
with the Mari Party, who are a tough swallow for
many in the electorate.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, I mean, I think one of the things about
m MP is that parties do have to work with
other parties. I'd say, you know, the fact that we've
currently got a situation where the ex Party, with less
than ten percent of the vote, I think when they
get about acts or nine percent of the vote are
now seemed to be running the government now, isn't an
inevitable outcome of MMP. I mean, it shows how weak
(04:00):
the kind of current National Party is that they're letting
the X Party call all the shots. You know, MMP
doesn't have to work that way. The majority or the
party that gets the biggest cheer of the vote should
within the government should still be the party that actually
carries the most way. That doesn't seem to be the
case at the moment.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
How would you manage a situation if, in the event
that the electric delivers a potential win for you, if
you team up with the Mari Party and somebody like
rowdy Y T says well, I'm not going to go
into business with you unless you have an overseeing authority
that can basically veto or vet every decision Parliament makes.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Well, I've already said we just wouldn't agree to that.
I mean, you've got to have some bottom lines here,
and the respects of democracy is one of them. You know,
we don't allow the courts to overturn the rules that
are made by Parliament. We wouldn't allow a commissioner or
any other kind of role to overturn the laws that
are made by parliament. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Are you pleased that Barbara Edwrams was invited to be
part of that investment seminar along with the government and
all the investors they're talking to.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Oh yeah, I think that's a good thing. I mean,
we're certainly in favor of investment New Zealand. The real
question is what kind of investment are we hoping to attract.
If it's investment into New Zealand companies, you know, building businesses,
making sure that we're creating jobs for New Zealanders, we
think that's a good thing. It's you know, carving up
the country sort of the country's existing assets for overseas
(05:24):
investors so that more dividends can flow off. Sure A,
we're a bit more skeptical about that if it means
you know, residential houses being pit brought up by people
who live overseas. That's not going to be good for
New Zealand home buyers. So, you know, I think overseas
investment in the right areas is very important for the
New Zealand economy.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Do you think that there can be more common ground
between say Barbara Edmunds and Nicola Willis when it comes
to economics, because it does seem that, especially with tax policy,
that there'll be one rule and there's an election, then
there's all of a sudden another rule, and I think
a lot of people want a bit more. I don't know,
not so much surging from one position to another.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I think it's hard to find common ground when one
half of that equation doesn't have any idea what they're
doing and find the case of.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Nicollis, that's not a good sign to say that really
isn't well.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
In the case of Nicola Willis, I mean, I just
think she doesn't seem to have a clue from one
day to the next what she's doing. I mean, talking
about economic growth doesn't grow the economy. She's released a
bunch of bullet points that actually are pretty much the
same stuff that you know that's been tried over the
last thirty or forty years that hasn't worked. Ultimately, there
are some structural imbalances in our economy that are holding
(06:32):
back our economic potential. In this government don't seem to
have a plan to deal with any of them.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
When you mean structural balances, how do you define that?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Well. One of our problems is at the moment we
really incentivize speculative investment rather than productive investment. If you
want to make money for your retirement, if you want
to save money for your entirement, if you're investing your
retirement in a moment, buying rental houses is actually one
of the best ways of doing that, rather than putting
your money into a building a business that might create
jobs and economic growth for the country. We've got to
(07:01):
have a serious look at that. I mean, this is
this is not a radical left wing ideas. This is
actually something that mainstream economists are telling governments, you know,
every government in New Zealand for the last little while,
and that we've got to look at the imbalances that
we've got here. Why is it that at the moment
the default position for kiwis is to biental properties. I
do you want to invest rather than invest in businesses
(07:23):
that might create jobs and a better future for the country.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
To be fair, I mean, at the moment it doesn't
look like a lot of people are buying investment properties.
But I take your point on that. How would you
describe your politics then personally? Because you'll remember I don't
know whether it was John Key, but maybe Helen Clark
and other prime ministers have often talked about it's dominating
the middle. If I didn't know you where in another
country and I met you and you said you're the
leader of the Labor Party in New Zealand, and I said,
(07:48):
what are your personal politics, How would you describe yours
where you sit on the spectrum?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Well, I mean there's a couple of different labels you
can attached to it. I mean I'm a center left politician,
so you know that there's a center left politician. Social
Democrats would be the probably the nearest description if you
look around the world for other political parties of a
similar elk to labor in New Zealand with they describe
themselves as social democratic parties.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Okay, do you think that we are becoming more polarized
when you look at them in comparison to what we
see going on in the States and in Germany with
the rise of the AfD and other sorts of politics.
How do you think we sit in terms of polarization?
Regardless of your personal differences with certain politicians in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I actually think New Zealand is largely you're rejecting that
style of politics. You know, New Zealanders wanted more of
that than you know. Frankly, David Cymore of the ex
Party New Zealand First Party would be massively oupholding everybody else.
They're not, And I think that's a sign that actually
New Zealanders don't see that as being and keeping with
ki we values. You know, we do want to be
a more inclusive country. We do want to be a
(08:52):
country that's kind of focused on the issues rather than
focused on demonizing people. And you know, I think that
we should all be feeling encouraged by that.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Who is he demonizing.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
David Seymour. I mean, but if you look at it,
let's look at who the government have been attacking in
the last couple of weeks. They've attacked people, They've attacked
pretty much the entire Rainbow community. They've been attacking I mean,
depending on who you're looking at. You know, Shane Jones
basically is calling anybody who doesn't think that we should
(09:25):
dig up the country woke. You've got David Seymour basically
saying anyone who's in favor of regulation of any description
whatsoever is holding the country back. I'm trying to remember what.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Soun like demonizing. That just sounds like a political point
of view.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Well, no, not at all. I mean when you say
that most of the country, which seems to be David
Seymour's view, a coalition to mediocrity, I think you are
starting to demonize people at that point.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
What I mean is I don't think there are any
particular individuals who'd suddenly feel threatened by him saying that
they would just see that as a political view rather
than some sort of isolating and marginalizing attack.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I think you've got to consider it in the context
of the whole government though. So I mean, if you
look at you know, right since since the election, they've
been picking people off. So we have the disability care
as these are people who in many cases earn very
little money to look after people with disabilities being accused
of ripping off the system. You know, they did feel
demonized and targeted. Okay. You know you've got constant statements
(10:23):
about public servants, tapers, nurses and others, you know, with
all sorts of aspersions being cast on their work, ethic
and so on. I think it's you've got a government
now that's very much focused on punching down on people.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Okay, just looking a little further afield outside of New Zealand.
So it's all very well with our domestic arguments. Are
you worried about the global sort of polarization and if
I to put it more broadly, global security, we've got
putin looking about he's about to get much of his
own way in Ukraine. Potentially, Trump wants Gaza as a
USA resources as Mediterranean paradise. Are you worried about global
(11:01):
security and our role in maintaining.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
That, well, I think we definitely need to be looking
at what's happening around the rest of the world with
a degree of caution. It's not a time for New
Zealand to buy into that polarization of world politics, you know.
I think that this idea that we have to you know,
in a US China trade war, for example, that we
have to pack aside I think that's something New Zealand
(11:26):
should strenuously reject. We've been independent in our foreign policy
for a good thirty forty years now, and I think
now more than ever, it's really important that we continue
to be independent. Well.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Do we need to have more a defense infrastructure?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I mean, I think it depends what you're talking about.
We've certainly got some defense infrastructure that's going to need
some work. Our naval fleet needs some work. We spent
a lot of money in the fund Aware and Government
upgrading the Air Force fleet, so the orions replaced, the
hercules were replaced. Quite a lot of money spent on
the army's kit, you know, and making sure that they
(12:04):
have what they needed. I think the Navy's still got there.
We've still got some work to do there. We've got
to really consider what does New Zealand strategically need. So
if you look at what our navy gets called on
to do, it's often things like assisting with search and rescue,
assisting with natural disasters, particularly in the Pacific, also work
in the Southern Ocean, and so I'm not sure that
(12:26):
we've got the naval fleet it's quite right for what
we need it to be. So yeah, I think we
do need to spend money on those.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
What about in terms of battle capabilities if in the
event that you know, things start to go pear shaped
in Europe in a few years time or more or
closer to that, are you worried about that?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Well, yeah, of course, But it depends what sort of
what New Zealand's contribution to those efforts might be. You know,
us having combat naval capability, for example down here in
the Southern Ocean might not necessarily be the most useful
contribution that New Zealand could make.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Is there any spending and that you would support then?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
As I've said I just mentioned some. I mean, I
think we do need to look at our naval fleet capability.
For example, you know, the Southern Ocean right on our
back door set. We don't have any ice breaking capability
in our naval fleet, and that's probably something that we
do need to think about, you know, to think about
where we are in the world and what kind of
capability we need given where we are. If you look
you look at them in the tragedy of the monu Anui,
(13:30):
is that actually that is the sort of capability we need.
That kind of ocean surveillance capability, that research and surveillance
capability that was on board the Monowennui which is now
at the bottom of the sea, that is actually the
sort of capability our navy needs.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, I didn't mean this to term to such a
tool about defense, But just looking back, do you think
it's a shame that we never got went with those
f sixteens?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
No, I don't think so, because again I think if
you think about where we are in the world, I'm
not so that these sixteens would be the highest priority
for our defense spending.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Okay, hey, Chris, I really appreciate your time. This afternoon,
and good luck with recovering. I think it's the day
after tomorrow you'll feel the pain.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, generally it's the day after the day after, isn't
it so coming to look forward.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
To you, Well, look forward to seeing some comment about
that further on, and that is thanks for your time.
That's Chris hip Cans easily the opposition. We're gonna have
a chat with David Seymour in just a moment about
the same question about the polarization of politics, but we'll
also touch on the international situation as well and what
David thinks we should be doing there, But of course
that'll be after the break.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
It's for more from the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Listen live to News Talk Said Be weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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