April 6, 2025 • 10 mins
The previously announced 60 square metre granny flats that property owners will be able to build without building or resource consent - will now be 70sqm.
Recent changes to the RMA will also help make it easier for these flats to be built as well as more affordable.
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Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from news Talk said,
be the granny.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Flat legislation coming to this year has well, it supersized me,
isn't it? The previously announced sixty square meter granny flats
that property owners will be able to build without building
or think it will now be seventy square meters. Recent
changes to the RMA will also make it help make
it easier for these flats to be built as well
as more affordable. And Minister for Housing in RMA reform
(00:31):
Chris Bishop is with me. Now, good afternoon, good uf Hey.
The name granny flat flat sounds cute and quaint, but
seventy square meters is kind of a behemoth, isn't it?
Why the change?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah, well, granny flats it's how people know them. I mean,
the technical term of the RMA and the Building Act
I think is minor residential units or dwelling or something.
So it hasn't got quite got the same of ring
to it, and most people know them as grannie flats,
so we've stuck with that. But the law will actually
say something, you know, something, something slightly more prosaic.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Is often the way you haven't come up with new
branding for them then, because granny flats does sound always
like a winner. It's just like, oh, they're so cute,
aren't they?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
But what think it reflects to the historical thing? You know,
a lot of particularly back in the fifties and sixties,
you know, it's quite common to put it literally, a
granny flat out the back. So we're going back to
that dead of it.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You've had a lot of support for the for the
legislation around and simplifying the requirements and enabling people to
build flats. Did you have a lot of push for larger.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yes, they go larger. I mean, look in some cases
it's you know, in some ways it's like, you know,
how long is a piece are straight? You know, you
get fifty, sixty, seventy. You know the people some people
would say sixty, other people would say seventy. We're quite
a few people saying, you know, go up to seventy,
just allow slightly larger. So we've decided to do that.
But the major point is to make it simpler to
(01:50):
to actually get building concent and resource concent We won't
need a building consent, but make it easier to get
through the rules in order to get these underway, and
I think it's been widely welcome to be pretty popular
with people.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
What will the rules actually be around what you you
still will not be able to do in terms of
height or proximity to borders and things like that.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
That will all be that will all be laid out
in the in the legislation itself. There are there will
be a variety of rules around height to boundary, so
for example, you can't be within two meters of the
the other dwelling for example, you know it has to
be single story, so that there will be a range
of different rules, and you know, we'll be publishing those,
(02:32):
you know, in due course of fact, I think that
might be online already.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Will there be a limit on how many people can
actually live in one?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
No, there won't be. But it's intended to be for
you know, it's intended to be for an individual or
a family.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, I guess the reason I ask is, be course,
the path to Hell is paid to with good partner's,
paved with good intentions. But what if somebody wants to
set up sort of dormitories set up for low cost accommodation.
On the face of it, nothing to stop that, is there?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Well, that would that that would that would likely for
for foul of the particular council resource consent rules. So
you won't you won't need a resource consent for a
granny flat if it's occupied by a single household or
a family. But if you were setting up dormitories, you
would need a resource consent because that would have a
whole bunch of different implications obviously, So you know, it's
(03:21):
not it's not a complete free for all. You know,
you've got to what we're trying to do is make
it easier for you know, seventy square meter of granny
flats out the back of properties for an individual or
small family or you know, a senior relative for example,
to be occupied.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
So actually I did have a question there around you
know how far this removes council control over their own
planning decisions. So what control will councils?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Have?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You mentioned numbers who can reside there as one?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah, so, so as long as you comply with the
particular rules that we set through the RMA process. So
for example, it's about the seventy square meters that you know,
there's a maximum height of four meters above floor level.
For example, building's got to be two meters away from
the other structure or the legal boundary of the properties.
And as long as you comply with all of those things,
(04:10):
plus the rules we set for the RIMA, you won't
need resource content, but you're not going to be able
to set up like our dormitory out the back or
anything like that. There'll be a range of different rules
and as long as you comply with those, you'll be fine.
We are also allowed on councils to charge development contributions
as well, because you know clearly as some areas there
will be an impact on the waste water and storm
(04:33):
water infrastructure and things like that, so councils will be
able to charge infrastructure costs basically to account for that.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Well, I was actually going to wonder about the infrastructure
because if you do have a lot more people living
on properties as a result of it. I think you've
talked about the thirteen thousand new dwellings over over ten years.
What are the infrastructure challenges in terms of parking, roading
in the storm water, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, so it will depend on the particular area obviously.
I mean there's no one size fits all. I mean
some areas where these ground flats will be built. You know,
have quite a lot of latent infrastructure capacity in the
particular area. Others it will be a challenge, and so
the rules will say building owners have to notify the
council of their intention to build via what's a project
(05:19):
information and memorandum or a PIN and then you have
to let them know when it's done as well. And
as a result of that, as a result of the
council know, for example, you know that they may well
charge the relevant development contribution or whatever the local authority
charges in terms of that. So we expect that to
be worked through in due course.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
So there's going to be some box ticking which will
just which will stop people, I guess from getting the
wrong end of the stick and just shoving someplace something
something that's too high, too close to the boundary, and
not really following the rules.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah. I mean, the point is you don't need a
building consent, so as long as you've got a licensed
building practitioner doing the work, you can crack on with it.
But I don't think it's unreasonable that people will let
to the council know. So that will be a requirement
to tell the council that they're doing it, and then
that that that may well bringer you know, a range
of things around infrastructure charges for example, so you've got
(06:12):
to let them know, you know, what the plans are,
for example, so we're keeping the red tape to a minimum.
I don't think it's unreasonable people actually tell the council
that they're doing it.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, no, no, I wasn't really challenging that that idea.
I think it was probably almost a relief that there's
still some sort of process to go through. But what
what remedies would be available to neighbors when people are
taking the mickey and not following the process.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Ah, well, there are to complain, complain to the council
and they'll be able to complain to you know, to
the relevant authority. So you know, it's just like anything,
the rules of the rule. Unless you breached them, then
they are then there are penalties.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I mean, would penalties include removing the structure if it
doesn't comply.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Possibly. I mean that there will be something that gets
considered as we as we draft up the legislation. I
mean we've we've agreed to the basic parameters of it,
and you know there'll be a bill before Parliament and
kind of you know, mid mid year. I think we're
saying they aim as to pass it into law by
the end of the year so people be able to
see all that.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So there's legislation a little bit of fleshing out to go.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
A little bit. Yeah, I mean, it's not you know,
we've announced the high level parameters of it, but there's
clearly the devil is in the details for stuff a
bit and you know, it is important that we get
that right and so that's why that's why we've consulted
on it to start with, and that's why you know,
once the legislation has introduced, it will go to a
select committee for people to look at and you know,
we want to get it right because you're dealing with
people's properties and people's building materials and things like that,
(07:34):
so it's important to get the details right.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Well, I mean, because the headline detail is the size
of it. Is there a chance the size still might
change depending on what the feedback is through the select
committee process.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I think we're pretty fixed on seeing these queer meters,
but you know, obviously we'll have a look at it
through the select committee process. It is important to keep
the stuff, right, you know, the relevant details around the
exemption from the building consent and the RMA process. There'll
be consultation on the resource management process as well. That
will happen in the next few months as well.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Thirteen thousand in a decade, how do you actually come
up with that figure? Is it just because you know
what sort of land is going to be eligible and
the interest in applying for certain consents? So how do
you calculate that number?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, it was done. It was done by some modeling,
was done by external consultants actually in relation to that.
So look, the number might be higher or you know,
like it might be lower. I mean, it just sort
of depends on, you know, how many people take it up.
And I think it will be quite popular, you know.
I think there is a real need for you know,
(08:35):
we've got a housing crisis obviously, and this is a
way of addressing it. It's not the silver bullet to
our housing crisis, but a thing, a thing that will help,
you know. And I've had a lot of edit died
or feedback from people saying, oh bloody good, you know,
all two people out the back, and you know it's
you know, put put ground out the back. Or you know,
(08:56):
but I mean it is as I say, it's not
silver bullet. There is no one silver bullet to our
house and crocess but will help.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
How's it all going to? I mean, well, the RMA
reforms that the big one, isn't it? I mean, how
does this all time with the RMA. Is it just
a small piece of the pie?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Basically it's a small piece of the puzzle. The intention
will be that this carries through into the new RIMA.
So because it's a national what's called a national environmental standard,
it essentially slips straight into council district plans, so councils
don't have to update their district plans to allow for
GRANNI flats. I mean some will be do, to be honest,
(09:30):
so you know, some some don't, some do, Some have
a variety of different rules. The rules are not nationalized,
so essentially we're updating council district plans for them around
GRANNI flats, and then that will carry through into the
new legislation as well, which will obviously be much more
nationally standardized anyway, So I think it's a nice it's
a nice transitionary method.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
When you're ready, we'll have something locked in and we
can get cracking.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
My aim is early twenty twenty six, so we've got
to pass the Building Act changes, and we've got to
pass the Environmental Standard changes. Our aims to get that
done by the end of the year, so it takes
effect next year.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Excellent, Hey, Chris, I really appreciate your time at this afternoon.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
talk edb weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from news Talk said,
be the granny.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Flat legislation coming to this year has well, it supersized me,
isn't it? The previously announced sixty square meter granny flats
that property owners will be able to build without building
or think it will now be seventy square meters. Recent
changes to the RMA will also make it help make
it easier for these flats to be built as well
as more affordable. And Minister for Housing in RMA reform
(00:31):
Chris Bishop is with me. Now, good afternoon, good uf Hey.
The name granny flat flat sounds cute and quaint, but
seventy square meters is kind of a behemoth, isn't it?
Why the change?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah, well, granny flats it's how people know them. I mean,
the technical term of the RMA and the Building Act
I think is minor residential units or dwelling or something.
So it hasn't got quite got the same of ring
to it, and most people know them as grannie flats,
so we've stuck with that. But the law will actually
say something, you know, something, something slightly more prosaic.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Is often the way you haven't come up with new
branding for them then, because granny flats does sound always
like a winner. It's just like, oh, they're so cute,
aren't they?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
But what think it reflects to the historical thing? You know,
a lot of particularly back in the fifties and sixties,
you know, it's quite common to put it literally, a
granny flat out the back. So we're going back to
that dead of it.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You've had a lot of support for the for the
legislation around and simplifying the requirements and enabling people to
build flats. Did you have a lot of push for larger.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yes, they go larger. I mean, look in some cases
it's you know, in some ways it's like, you know,
how long is a piece are straight? You know, you
get fifty, sixty, seventy. You know the people some people
would say sixty, other people would say seventy. We're quite
a few people saying, you know, go up to seventy,
just allow slightly larger. So we've decided to do that.
But the major point is to make it simpler to
(01:50):
to actually get building concent and resource concent We won't
need a building consent, but make it easier to get
through the rules in order to get these underway, and
I think it's been widely welcome to be pretty popular
with people.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
What will the rules actually be around what you you
still will not be able to do in terms of
height or proximity to borders and things like that.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
That will all be that will all be laid out
in the in the legislation itself. There are there will
be a variety of rules around height to boundary, so
for example, you can't be within two meters of the
the other dwelling for example, you know it has to
be single story, so that there will be a range
of different rules, and you know, we'll be publishing those,
(02:32):
you know, in due course of fact, I think that
might be online already.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Will there be a limit on how many people can
actually live in one?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
No, there won't be. But it's intended to be for
you know, it's intended to be for an individual or
a family.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, I guess the reason I ask is, be course,
the path to Hell is paid to with good partner's,
paved with good intentions. But what if somebody wants to
set up sort of dormitories set up for low cost accommodation.
On the face of it, nothing to stop that, is there?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Well, that would that that would that would likely for
for foul of the particular council resource consent rules. So
you won't you won't need a resource consent for a
granny flat if it's occupied by a single household or
a family. But if you were setting up dormitories, you
would need a resource consent because that would have a
whole bunch of different implications obviously, So you know, it's
(03:21):
not it's not a complete free for all. You know,
you've got to what we're trying to do is make
it easier for you know, seventy square meter of granny
flats out the back of properties for an individual or
small family or you know, a senior relative for example,
to be occupied.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
So actually I did have a question there around you
know how far this removes council control over their own
planning decisions. So what control will councils?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Have?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You mentioned numbers who can reside there as one?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah, so, so as long as you comply with the
particular rules that we set through the RMA process. So
for example, it's about the seventy square meters that you know,
there's a maximum height of four meters above floor level.
For example, building's got to be two meters away from
the other structure or the legal boundary of the properties.
And as long as you comply with all of those things,
(04:10):
plus the rules we set for the RIMA, you won't
need resource content, but you're not going to be able
to set up like our dormitory out the back or
anything like that. There'll be a range of different rules
and as long as you comply with those, you'll be fine.
We are also allowed on councils to charge development contributions
as well, because you know clearly as some areas there
will be an impact on the waste water and storm
(04:33):
water infrastructure and things like that, so councils will be
able to charge infrastructure costs basically to account for that.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Well, I was actually going to wonder about the infrastructure
because if you do have a lot more people living
on properties as a result of it. I think you've
talked about the thirteen thousand new dwellings over over ten years.
What are the infrastructure challenges in terms of parking, roading
in the storm water, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, so it will depend on the particular area obviously.
I mean there's no one size fits all. I mean
some areas where these ground flats will be built. You know,
have quite a lot of latent infrastructure capacity in the
particular area. Others it will be a challenge, and so
the rules will say building owners have to notify the
council of their intention to build via what's a project
(05:19):
information and memorandum or a PIN and then you have
to let them know when it's done as well. And
as a result of that, as a result of the
council know, for example, you know that they may well
charge the relevant development contribution or whatever the local authority
charges in terms of that. So we expect that to
be worked through in due course.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
So there's going to be some box ticking which will
just which will stop people, I guess from getting the
wrong end of the stick and just shoving someplace something
something that's too high, too close to the boundary, and
not really following the rules.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah. I mean, the point is you don't need a
building consent, so as long as you've got a licensed
building practitioner doing the work, you can crack on with it.
But I don't think it's unreasonable that people will let
to the council know. So that will be a requirement
to tell the council that they're doing it, and then
that that that may well bringer you know, a range
of things around infrastructure charges for example, so you've got
(06:12):
to let them know, you know, what the plans are,
for example, so we're keeping the red tape to a minimum.
I don't think it's unreasonable people actually tell the council
that they're doing it.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, no, no, I wasn't really challenging that that idea.
I think it was probably almost a relief that there's
still some sort of process to go through. But what
what remedies would be available to neighbors when people are
taking the mickey and not following the process.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Ah, well, there are to complain, complain to the council
and they'll be able to complain to you know, to
the relevant authority. So you know, it's just like anything,
the rules of the rule. Unless you breached them, then
they are then there are penalties.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I mean, would penalties include removing the structure if it
doesn't comply.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Possibly. I mean that there will be something that gets
considered as we as we draft up the legislation. I
mean we've we've agreed to the basic parameters of it,
and you know there'll be a bill before Parliament and
kind of you know, mid mid year. I think we're
saying they aim as to pass it into law by
the end of the year so people be able to
see all that.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So there's legislation a little bit of fleshing out to go.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
A little bit. Yeah, I mean, it's not you know,
we've announced the high level parameters of it, but there's
clearly the devil is in the details for stuff a
bit and you know, it is important that we get
that right and so that's why that's why we've consulted
on it to start with, and that's why you know,
once the legislation has introduced, it will go to a
select committee for people to look at and you know,
we want to get it right because you're dealing with
people's properties and people's building materials and things like that,
(07:34):
so it's important to get the details right.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Well, I mean, because the headline detail is the size
of it. Is there a chance the size still might
change depending on what the feedback is through the select
committee process.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I think we're pretty fixed on seeing these queer meters,
but you know, obviously we'll have a look at it
through the select committee process. It is important to keep
the stuff, right, you know, the relevant details around the
exemption from the building consent and the RMA process. There'll
be consultation on the resource management process as well. That
will happen in the next few months as well.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Thirteen thousand in a decade, how do you actually come
up with that figure? Is it just because you know
what sort of land is going to be eligible and
the interest in applying for certain consents? So how do
you calculate that number?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, it was done. It was done by some modeling,
was done by external consultants actually in relation to that.
So look, the number might be higher or you know,
like it might be lower. I mean, it just sort
of depends on, you know, how many people take it up.
And I think it will be quite popular, you know.
I think there is a real need for you know,
(08:35):
we've got a housing crisis obviously, and this is a
way of addressing it. It's not the silver bullet to
our housing crisis, but a thing, a thing that will help,
you know. And I've had a lot of edit died
or feedback from people saying, oh bloody good, you know,
all two people out the back, and you know it's
you know, put put ground out the back. Or you know,
(08:56):
but I mean it is as I say, it's not
silver bullet. There is no one silver bullet to our
house and crocess but will help.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
How's it all going to? I mean, well, the RMA
reforms that the big one, isn't it? I mean, how
does this all time with the RMA. Is it just
a small piece of the pie?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Basically it's a small piece of the puzzle. The intention
will be that this carries through into the new RIMA.
So because it's a national what's called a national environmental standard,
it essentially slips straight into council district plans, so councils
don't have to update their district plans to allow for
GRANNI flats. I mean some will be do, to be honest,
(09:30):
so you know, some some don't, some do, Some have
a variety of different rules. The rules are not nationalized,
so essentially we're updating council district plans for them around
GRANNI flats, and then that will carry through into the
new legislation as well, which will obviously be much more
nationally standardized anyway, So I think it's a nice it's
a nice transitionary method.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
When you're ready, we'll have something locked in and we
can get cracking.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
My aim is early twenty twenty six, so we've got
to pass the Building Act changes, and we've got to
pass the Environmental Standard changes. Our aims to get that
done by the end of the year, so it takes
effect next year.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Excellent, Hey, Chris, I really appreciate your time at this afternoon.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
talk edb weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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