January 26, 2025 • 25 mins
Jack Tame is a New Zealand television and radio journalist. He is the host of TVNZ’s political show Q+A and a presenter at Newstalk ZB. Tame grew up in Christchurch as the eldest of four siblings and attended St Martin's Primary School, Cashmere High School, and the New Zealand Broadcasting School at CPIT.
Throughout his career, Tame has worked as TVNZ’s United States correspondent, co-hosted Breakfast, and written a column for Herald on Sunday. He currently hosts the Saturday morning show on Newstalk ZB and fills in as a presenter for Mike Hosking Breakfast.
Tame is married to TVNZ reporter Mava Moayyed, is a stepfather to her son, and the couple is expecting their first child.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk SEDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen
on News Talk ZEDB Today.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It's always a privilege to host to real life and
to talk to people about their lives and what matters
to them. I'm John Cowen and my guest tonight is
Jack Tame. Welcome Jack Gold to John.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Good to see you.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
How are things going for you? Very well?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Thank you very well. I've enjoyed a nice relaxing summer,
so I'm feeling sort of rejuvenated for the year ahead.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Ready to go. Now, you've wanted to be a broadcaster
right from school, and you must have actually been quite
happy with the way things have worked out, because what
twenty years now broadcasting.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
So I'm a millennial and I can attest that I'm
probably the only millennial in New Zealand to have worked
in the same job for the same company for as
long as I have. It sort of feels like the
sort of thing that my parents or my grandparents generation did.
But yes, you're did right. I wanted to be a broadcaster.
(01:16):
I wanted to work in radio and television. I wanted
to write things, and I've had the great fortune of
working in the industry that I aspired to work in
since I was about nineteen. So I actually I think
I got my first broadcasting job when I was still
studying broadcasting. I'm thirty seven years old now and I've
been working in the same industry the whole time.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I thought that you were actually working in television, even
before you start to start broadcasting. That an extra in
What Now? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
In fact, the very first time I sort of got
prized the door open to a job in broadcasting was
when I was in about year ten or eleven, so
the old fourth form or fifth form. Yes, and Jason
Gunn was pitching to return What Now to christ Church. So,
for geeks of New Zealand's broadcasting history, What Now the
(02:06):
kids TV show used to be produce in christ Church.
They moved it to Avalon for a few years in Wellington,
and then they moved it in Lower Hunt and then
they moved it back down to christ Church. And when
they were pitching to return it to christ Church, Jason
Gunn's production company approached various local high schools and asked
them for keen young theater students to come in and
(02:27):
have an audition and have a crack. I was given
a role for the What Now pitch. Tvn Z decided
to return the production to christ Church and perhaps is
a bit of a thanks Jason and Jeanine brought me
on as an employee of What Now. So in the
weekends I would work on what Now and there you go.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Look at that impacting broadcasting and changing the direction of
broadcasting right from the fourth form. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Now, you fairly early on in your career you got
posted overseas. What a plum opportunity that was.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yeah, it was amazing. So started at TVNZ is a
keen young reporter and worked away as a reporter for
a few years, and then I went on a trip
to the United States with some friends Maddy McLain who
was of course our friend on the Hits Now and
worked at TVNZ for a long time. And when we
were over in the US, I made an effort to
(03:18):
go and have a look at how the TVNZ US
correspondent at the time, mister Tim Wilson, who I know
is very familiar to our listeners as well, how he
was working in his day to day job, and I
saw him doing his gig and I thought, oh my gosh,
this is the best job in the best city in
the world. I want to do this one day. And Tim,
being the wonderful, generous man that he was, allowed me
(03:40):
to tag along with him. But about twelve months later
he decided that he was done and the US had
been over there in New York for about a decade
or so and he was going to move back to
New Zealand, and, like I say, very generously, he called
me and he said, I know how keen you are
to do this job. You've you know, you've shown a
bit of interest by coming and tagging along with me.
(04:01):
I'm going to ring the boss and tell the boss
that I'm going to be returning to New Zealand and
resigning my role. It's up to you what you do
with that information. But I suggest to you that you
might want to go and have a word. And so
I waited and Tim text me and he said, I've
just finished talking to the boss, and the moment he
hung up the phone, I knocked on the boss's door
and I said, I understand there's a job going in
(04:23):
New York and I might be very interested. So I
was very fortunate. I was posted to the US for
five years. I traveled all around forty states, all around
North America and parts of South America to do.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Some name dropping. Who did you get to interview?
Speaker 3 (04:39):
So I went to the Oscars five times? Yes, so
I did all sorts of people, from you Hugh Jackman's
to your Miley Cyrus's to your Rhianna's, all those kind
of all those stars.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
You actually got to talk to them.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I got to talk to them. I got to you know,
I got to sit down and interview them in person.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Do you ever ask Miley or Rahannah if they were
fans of Beast Rubber Duck.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
No, I didn't. Beast Rubber Duck being my high school
band that enjoyed limited success to say the least, to
rock Wests, Well, this is true, we did. We were
keen competitors and rockquest I went to. I went to
Cashmere High School in christ Church, which is well known
as being a very musical school. So music was a
huge part of my high school years and I absolutely
(05:27):
loved it. But no, I didn't. You'll be pleased. So
what I did ask Rihanna, though, was about test.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Cricket, okay, and she she was actually.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
She responded very well, because of course she's from Barbados,
so she's she's West Indian. And you know, these poor stars,
I say, poor stars. They're getting paid millions of dollars.
But often the way these things work is that they
have to do about thirty interviews in a row, so
that the record company or the film studio will put
them up in a five star hotel for a day.
(05:56):
They'll completely you know, in the four Seasons or something
like that. They'll they'll get all of the lights and
everything set up in a hotel room and one by
one they will push these journalists from different countries through
for literally a five minute interview. And of course the
poor stars get asked the same question time and time
and time and time again.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And here's someone asking you about cricket.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And then said I came and I said, no, I'm
going to try and get Rihanna out of this kind
of you know, droning, monotonous, same answer to it to
the same question mode. And I said, what.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Do you think of test cricket?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
How's the Westerndies squad shaping up? And she loved it.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Now talking about getting the same questions and same answers.
You talk to politicians all the time, and politicians are
so obviously schooled on this is the party line, this
is the for phrases to use. You can have the
same phrases coming out time and time again. How do
you get past the party line? I know we're jumping
around a lot, no, no, but how do you get
(06:50):
past the party line when you're talking to politicians?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So my attitude, I sort of have an ethos that
underlies my interviewing job, and my ethosis is to pursue answers.
So I don't just want to pose questions when I'm
speaking to powerful people. I actually want to pursue answers.
And that means that I, in an interview listen as
carefully as possible to determine in the moment whether or
(07:16):
not a politician is actually answering the question or whether
they are obfuscating. And as you quite correctly note, most
politicians are very skilled communicators who have been trained very
carefully to define a message as they would like to
define it, rather than necessarily answer the direct question to
(07:37):
which they've been posed. So it can be a challenging
thing and this will sound.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So do you repeat the question?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I repeat the question many times, and I will interrupt them,
and I will point out quite obviously that they are
not answering the question by saying I'm sorry, but you're
not answering the question. And it can be quite a
confrontational thing, and you know, I only do it in
certain circumstances with powerful people, and I generally reserve the
most confrontational approach to pursuing an answer to those people
(08:07):
who are an elected positions of power. So that's how
I kind of think about things.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
You deal with them all the time. Do you actually
like political Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
I do.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I do, And I admire them, Yeah, I do.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I think I think for the most part, politicians in
New Zealand are in it for the right reason. They
have a vision that they think will make our country
and our society better. And you know, to be an
effective politician you have to work incredibly hard, regardless of
your party affiliation, your your political philosophy, all of that stuff.
(08:38):
I think a lot of politicians are really thoughtful, smart,
clever people, the community minded. That's not to say all
of them, but generally speaking, yeah, I really do. I
really do admire them.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Okay, we're coming up to a break, But just quickly,
you've said that you love American politics, and how do
you think our politicians compare to America.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I'm just so glad that they don't compare, because I
mean America, I mean the theater of American politics, the
money on the line, the power on the line is
obviously completely dwarfs anything we have in the New Zealand system.
But as a result, I would say that the American
system has led to a kind of more divided and
(09:21):
you know, partisan society than fortunately we have. I just
hope we don't go down the same tribal route.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, I certainly hope so too. So a lot more
vanilla here, But vanilla is a fine flavor.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Vanilla is not necessarily a bad thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
The thing to remember is that the vast majority of
New Zealanders are actually somewhere in the middle when it
comes to politics. We actually agree on much more than
we disagree on m hm. And I think the way
that American politics has gone lately kind of emphasizes divisions
rather than the things that actually unite people.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
If you've just joined us, you'll know that voice. It's
Jack Tame I'm talking to him about his life and broadcasting.
We'll talk a bit more about what goes on in
the head and heart of Jack Tame after this break.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on news talks.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It be welcome back to real life, John Cown talking
of Jack Taman. You've picked some music for us. What
are we listening to that?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So that's a bit wronger, friend of the friend of
the station. Beautiful, beautiful musician. When I see you smile.
And the reason I chose that is I said, I
went to a school where music was a big part
of daily life. When I went to school, bit wronger
was there a couple of years before me. She was
the sort of paragon of musical success. So she was
(10:33):
a former student who had gone on to great things.
And I've always loved her music. There's something so beautiful
and pure about her, about a voice and about a songwriting.
And one of my recent broadcasting highlights was having her
in studio playing and yeah, so I just love that song.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So beautiful music and some Cantabrian loyalty. Yes. Well, back
to Alma Mater of Kashmir High too, right, too, right,
now we were talking before the break about your life
in America. But you're a married man now, that's right,
And I'm are you saying that being single gave you
an almost like a selfish window of opportunity to do things?
(11:14):
Has the window slam shot?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
I wouldn't say the window has slam shut, but I'm
certainly not living the same kind of selfish existence that
I might have been living a couple of years ago.
And when I talk about that, I just mean, you know, yeah,
I think any parent will know, or anyone who has
responsibilities and commitments will know that when you are thinking
about more than just yourself, you can't necessarily do what
(11:37):
you always want to do whenever you want to do it.
And that applies to lots of things.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
So you know, has that been a shock to you
or did you go.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Into until I want it? Yeah, and I'm ready for it.
So not only do I have my wonderful wife, Marva,
but I have a step son, Rumy, who's almost eight
years old, and so you know, he's a very big
part of my life now. And you know, it is
a bit of a shock to the system to you know,
essentially overnight go from living by yourself to living with
(12:07):
a living with a seven year old who you know,
wants to go into the backyard and kick a football
around and wants to play lego and wants to do
various things and needs to be taken from school to
basketball and needs to be dropped off and you know,
all of those things. But it's a part of life
I've been really excited about and feel very very ready for.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So I've heard that you were a great uncle.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Well yeah, so that peep isn't an uncle who's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I guess that was good training. I guess. Yeah, in
small doses you can interact with children, and now are
steps and in February and life changes again, for.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Life changes again. Yes, So my wife is eight months
pregnant at the moment, so we're very much counting down
the days and nesting. I've been, you know, over the
summer doing things like cleaning the weather boards on the
house because I know that there's not going to be
an opportunity to do that for another eighteen months or so.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I mean, so I've always I've always been around kids.
So I'm the oldest of four and you know, so
sort of feely involved with my siblings and am very
close with my siblings still when we were growing up,
I was very involved and we all talk all the time.
Now as you say, I'm an uncle, I have three siblings.
(13:26):
My sister has three kids in my and my brother
in law and sister in law have two kids as well,
so I've spent a lot of time with you know,
relatively young kids. I think the oldest of those is
six years old. So there's plenty of sort of wrestling
and playing in the backyard and that sort of stuff
as well.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So you're not going straight from being an international bachelor
children into this, yeah, yeah, merely of children and things.
So baby arriving, yep. And I'll just sort of terrify
you with the with the idea that many people find
the first year, first baby the most stressful of your life.
But it sounds like you've all prepared for that. And
(14:03):
are there things that you're looking forward to doing with
your child and with RUMI that you can recall your
own parents doing with you.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, my I just
think my parents did such an amazing job and I
feel so grateful to you know, everything, every kind of
opportunity they provided us with as children. I mean they were,
they were. I think my parents struck an amazing balance
between you know, showing us the value and importance of
(14:33):
hard work, but also being very present. And you know,
when I think about the things that my parents provided
us with, I think they really tried to give us
a richness in experiences. So they really they really prioritized
experiencing things over such as over material you know, over
material stuff, so little things like for example, my parents
(14:59):
love oysters, right, and on their wedding anniversary when we
were young, they never had much money, but they would
always for their wedding anniversary or for a birthday, whenever
whatever fell in the oyster season, they would prioritize getting
a dozen bluff oysters. And they absolutely loved oysters. But
we would sit around at home, four kids, they get
(15:20):
a dozen oysters, and they'd say, right, everyone eats an oyster.
And we say, oh, but it looks like looks gross,
it looks like'snot and they said, no, no, no, no, no,
we want you to experience this too. We want you
to come and try this food. We want you to
know what it taste like, and we want you to
be able to savor this moment with us, and so
with just twelve oysters, four of them would go to
the kids, who were never very grateful at the time,
of course, but it was like they wanted us to
(15:44):
not only to develop a palette and all of those things,
but they wanted us to be part of that experience
with them. And I just I look back at little
things like that and I'm like, that was that was
great parenting. And you know, I absolutely love oysters now.
So it's funny how these things come around. But yeah,
we were never my parents were. We were never a
family that valued kind of material possessions as much as
(16:06):
we valued little experiences like that.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I guess that's given you a taste not just for oysters,
but for life. Yeah, I think so that you can
go to Africa, you can go to Argentina, you can
go to these different places.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Absolutely, and I think it's given me a curiosity about
the world. It's it's really fostered a curiosity about the world.
And it means that I value experiences over stuff, and
I really hope that I can instill that in our
kids as well.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Well. You're gearing up to be that type of dance,
I hope.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
So, I mean it's well and good in theory, isn't it.
But yeah, I guess the proof of the puddings in
the eating.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Now as your world is interacted with Marv's world. Part
of her a big part of her world is her
Bar High Faith. Yeah, and I'm just wondering that must
have engaged that appetite for discovering something new as well.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, it's honestly just been such an enriching experience because
I don't come from a religious background personally, and you know,
I don't want to speak for the Ba High Faith,
but getting to you know, share a life within which
faith is a central component is has just been has
(17:17):
been a really really.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, a really.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Enriching experience for me and and so so I mean
in terms of day to day life. I mean, you know,
we we say prayers before bedtime, you know, we we
celebrate the High Holy Days. Mathers pretty involved in in
the small but nonetheless enthusiastic High community. And learning a
(17:42):
little bit about the faith, getting to know other people
through the faith has yeah, has just been a a
really really rich kind of experience for me, and and
you know, I talk about you know, valuing experiences in life.
I really feel like even from my perspective, it's kind
of opened my open my eyes to a part of
(18:05):
a part of life that I wasn't necessarily open to previously.
So no, it's been it's been all positive.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
So you haven't had to push down any sort of
cynical New Zealand reflexes that or part of your love
for Marva has been embracing this as well.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yeah. But also I mean the the I mean it's
you know, the the Again. I don't want to speak
for the faith necessarily, but a central tenet of the
b High Faith, as I understand it, is a goal
of the unity of humankind. And so so much of
what Marva and the other people in the High community
(18:42):
do here is done with a goal of unity, whether
it's at a at a at a local level, or
at a broader level, and it's very hard not to
see the benefit from that.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
It's admirable.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah, it's just it's admirable. But also yeah, and so
absolutely it's a you know, see seeing the kind of
things they do and the and the and the values
that underline a lot of their actions. I yeah, it's
all positive and I don't feel cynical about it. In fact,
if anything. It's just kind of opened my eyes to
(19:17):
perhaps a bit of a blind spot and a naivety
on my part, And so I feel quite positive about.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
That, okay, in that emphasis on unity, and you talk
before about the polarization you see in America especially, you
get to look at New Zealand and talk to the
newsmakers and the opinion makers and reflect on life in
New Zealand. Do you see that as being a real
risk in New Zealand life, that we're falling into camps
(19:44):
that we will not want to engage with anyone else
apart from those that agree with us. That yeah, type
of thing, that's a risk.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I do think it's a risk. I fortunately don't think
we are at the same kind of risk as the US,
and I don't think we'll hopefully ever be quite as
polarized and divided as they are right now. But I
do think there are lots of things contributing to that today,
whether it's the media environment and whether it's social media,
whether it's the nature of politics today. I think that
(20:12):
people are really easily seduced by tribalism. And you know,
one of the things I always try and remind myself
is that no one anywhere has a monopoly on good
ideas and regardless of their political philosophy, regardless of their
background or anything. And the things that you unite us,
there are so many more things that unite us than
divide us. And I just think a lot of the
(20:34):
way our modern society is structured means that we are
we put much more focus and attention on the things
that divide us. And I think that that's a really
dangerous and kind of seductive path.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
One of the things that's screaming in the back of
my head as you're talking about this is the need
for objective journalism when it comes to these issues. And
where's that going.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I mean, yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Think and work in that world all the time, and
where's journalism going.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I mean, I really worry for journalism, especially in New
Zealand because and I know that there are lots of
people who don't have a great sense of faith in
what might be termed the mainstream media these days. But
we have seen vast numbers of journalists lose their jobs
over the last few years, you know, including at my employers.
(21:24):
And I think you know that those I do think
journalism plays a really important role in as a fourth
or state in keeping power honest, in reflecting our society
back to us. And yeah, I worry about it. I
think it's a huge, huge point of concern, and I
(21:45):
don't think there are any easy solutions in New Zealand
right now.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I think one of the things that leads us into
these kind of tribal groups is when there isn't a
sort of generally accepted version of the truth. And I'm
not saying that journalists don't make mistakes, but I think
that the more journalism jobs we lose, the more likely
people are to kind of fall into these too tribal groups,
(22:09):
whereby they have completely different visions of reality.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
You just have little echo chambers that amplify and echo
what you already believe, yes, exactly, non challenging you, I mean,
and play.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
On your fears and securities as well, you know. And
I just think there's a kind of something about the
human condition that's, you know, that is easily easily mislead
by right by that, And I worry about it a lot.
I don't know what the solution is in New Zealand,
but I think where I really reckon our industry is
a massive pail at the.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Moment, I'm talking with Jack Tame who's looking back on
twenty years and broadcasting, even though he's only a young fellow.
And one of the interesting things I came across when
I was doing a bit of research on you was
an interview in the press with a seventeen year old
Jack taine Ah, and you were predicting what your future
is going to be and you spelled it out, you know,
how you wanted to end broadcasting and everything like this,
(23:05):
and if I can get you back in the studio
perhaps twenty forty five. Yeah, right, look back on the
next twenty years. Is there anything that you really want
to have ticked off in these next twenty years.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
That's a great question. I am just for the time being,
am incredibly grateful for having the job and roles that
I have. I mean here as z'd B and working
on Q and A. Honestly, to dream jobs for me.
In terms of future stuff, don't. I don't aspire to,
(23:37):
you know, to greater heights and broadcasting or anything like that.
I would love to be able to travel a little
bit more. I would love to be able to do
what I do a little bit more. But honestly, if
I am able to sustain a career in broadcasting through
to twenty forty five. I mean, that would be an
incredible achievement in itself, and there's nothing at the moment
(23:57):
soul necessarily be able to. But you know, the other
thing is, truthfully, I sometimes wonder, if, you know, maybe
maybe another career is on the cards at some point,
and I don't know what necessarily I would do or
you know where that might end up. But I'm interested
in lots of things that I wasn't interested in as
a seventeen year old, because I think curiosity leads to learning,
(24:20):
which leads to greater curiosity, which leads to learning, and
it's this wonderful kind of cycle. So yeah, you know,
whether it's business, economics, you know, international development, all sorts
of things. I have a real kind of burning curiosity
about the world. So you know, it might be that
if we were speaking in twenty forty five, maybe I'll
(24:40):
be working in broadcasting and that'd be great. Maybe I
will have had a completely different career and that could
be great.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Who knows. I hope you never lose that curiosity. I
wish you all the best in your new adventures in
fatherhood and I'll put it on the diary to have
your bank in twenty forty five, we'll have a catch
up very good, hopefully maybe even sooner than that.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
I look forward to that. Hey, thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
It's been my privilege to talk to Jack Taime. Who's
going to pick some music for us as we go out.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, we're going to go daft punk, so I do.
I played something nice and gentle from a first song,
but punk. I love a bit of dance music. This
is the French duo, of course, and this is a
song that features Julian Casablancas, who is the lead singer
of The Strokes. There's a real New York connection there
as well, which I love.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Fantastic. This is real life. I'm John Cowen, looking forward
to being with you next Sunday night.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
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Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen
on News Talk ZEDB Today.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It's always a privilege to host to real life and
to talk to people about their lives and what matters
to them. I'm John Cowen and my guest tonight is
Jack Tame. Welcome Jack Gold to John.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Good to see you.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
How are things going for you? Very well?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Thank you very well. I've enjoyed a nice relaxing summer,
so I'm feeling sort of rejuvenated for the year ahead.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Ready to go. Now, you've wanted to be a broadcaster
right from school, and you must have actually been quite
happy with the way things have worked out, because what
twenty years now broadcasting.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
So I'm a millennial and I can attest that I'm
probably the only millennial in New Zealand to have worked
in the same job for the same company for as
long as I have. It sort of feels like the
sort of thing that my parents or my grandparents generation did.
But yes, you're did right. I wanted to be a broadcaster.
(01:16):
I wanted to work in radio and television. I wanted
to write things, and I've had the great fortune of
working in the industry that I aspired to work in
since I was about nineteen. So I actually I think
I got my first broadcasting job when I was still
studying broadcasting. I'm thirty seven years old now and I've
been working in the same industry the whole time.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I thought that you were actually working in television, even
before you start to start broadcasting. That an extra in
What Now? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
In fact, the very first time I sort of got
prized the door open to a job in broadcasting was
when I was in about year ten or eleven, so
the old fourth form or fifth form. Yes, and Jason
Gunn was pitching to return What Now to christ Church. So,
for geeks of New Zealand's broadcasting history, What Now the
(02:06):
kids TV show used to be produce in christ Church.
They moved it to Avalon for a few years in Wellington,
and then they moved it in Lower Hunt and then
they moved it back down to christ Church. And when
they were pitching to return it to christ Church, Jason
Gunn's production company approached various local high schools and asked
them for keen young theater students to come in and
(02:27):
have an audition and have a crack. I was given
a role for the What Now pitch. Tvn Z decided
to return the production to christ Church and perhaps is
a bit of a thanks Jason and Jeanine brought me
on as an employee of What Now. So in the
weekends I would work on what Now and there you go.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Look at that impacting broadcasting and changing the direction of
broadcasting right from the fourth form. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Now, you fairly early on in your career you got
posted overseas. What a plum opportunity that was.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yeah, it was amazing. So started at TVNZ is a
keen young reporter and worked away as a reporter for
a few years, and then I went on a trip
to the United States with some friends Maddy McLain who
was of course our friend on the Hits Now and
worked at TVNZ for a long time. And when we
were over in the US, I made an effort to
(03:18):
go and have a look at how the TVNZ US
correspondent at the time, mister Tim Wilson, who I know
is very familiar to our listeners as well, how he
was working in his day to day job, and I
saw him doing his gig and I thought, oh my gosh,
this is the best job in the best city in
the world. I want to do this one day. And Tim,
being the wonderful, generous man that he was, allowed me
(03:40):
to tag along with him. But about twelve months later
he decided that he was done and the US had
been over there in New York for about a decade
or so and he was going to move back to
New Zealand, and, like I say, very generously, he called
me and he said, I know how keen you are
to do this job. You've you know, you've shown a
bit of interest by coming and tagging along with me.
(04:01):
I'm going to ring the boss and tell the boss
that I'm going to be returning to New Zealand and
resigning my role. It's up to you what you do
with that information. But I suggest to you that you
might want to go and have a word. And so
I waited and Tim text me and he said, I've
just finished talking to the boss, and the moment he
hung up the phone, I knocked on the boss's door
and I said, I understand there's a job going in
(04:23):
New York and I might be very interested. So I
was very fortunate. I was posted to the US for
five years. I traveled all around forty states, all around
North America and parts of South America to do.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Some name dropping. Who did you get to interview?
Speaker 3 (04:39):
So I went to the Oscars five times? Yes, so
I did all sorts of people, from you Hugh Jackman's
to your Miley Cyrus's to your Rhianna's, all those kind
of all those stars.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
You actually got to talk to them.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I got to talk to them. I got to you know,
I got to sit down and interview them in person.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Do you ever ask Miley or Rahannah if they were
fans of Beast Rubber Duck.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
No, I didn't. Beast Rubber Duck being my high school
band that enjoyed limited success to say the least, to
rock Wests, Well, this is true, we did. We were
keen competitors and rockquest I went to. I went to
Cashmere High School in christ Church, which is well known
as being a very musical school. So music was a
huge part of my high school years and I absolutely
(05:27):
loved it. But no, I didn't. You'll be pleased. So
what I did ask Rihanna, though, was about test.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Cricket, okay, and she she was actually.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
She responded very well, because of course she's from Barbados,
so she's she's West Indian. And you know, these poor stars,
I say, poor stars. They're getting paid millions of dollars.
But often the way these things work is that they
have to do about thirty interviews in a row, so
that the record company or the film studio will put
them up in a five star hotel for a day.
(05:56):
They'll completely you know, in the four Seasons or something
like that. They'll they'll get all of the lights and
everything set up in a hotel room and one by
one they will push these journalists from different countries through
for literally a five minute interview. And of course the
poor stars get asked the same question time and time
and time and time again.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And here's someone asking you about cricket.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And then said I came and I said, no, I'm
going to try and get Rihanna out of this kind
of you know, droning, monotonous, same answer to it to
the same question mode. And I said, what.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Do you think of test cricket?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
How's the Westerndies squad shaping up? And she loved it.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Now talking about getting the same questions and same answers.
You talk to politicians all the time, and politicians are
so obviously schooled on this is the party line, this
is the for phrases to use. You can have the
same phrases coming out time and time again. How do
you get past the party line? I know we're jumping
around a lot, no, no, but how do you get
(06:50):
past the party line when you're talking to politicians?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So my attitude, I sort of have an ethos that
underlies my interviewing job, and my ethosis is to pursue answers.
So I don't just want to pose questions when I'm
speaking to powerful people. I actually want to pursue answers.
And that means that I, in an interview listen as
carefully as possible to determine in the moment whether or
(07:16):
not a politician is actually answering the question or whether
they are obfuscating. And as you quite correctly note, most
politicians are very skilled communicators who have been trained very
carefully to define a message as they would like to
define it, rather than necessarily answer the direct question to
(07:37):
which they've been posed. So it can be a challenging
thing and this will sound.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So do you repeat the question?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I repeat the question many times, and I will interrupt them,
and I will point out quite obviously that they are
not answering the question by saying I'm sorry, but you're
not answering the question. And it can be quite a
confrontational thing, and you know, I only do it in
certain circumstances with powerful people, and I generally reserve the
most confrontational approach to pursuing an answer to those people
(08:07):
who are an elected positions of power. So that's how
I kind of think about things.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
You deal with them all the time. Do you actually
like political Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
I do.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I do, And I admire them, Yeah, I do.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I think I think for the most part, politicians in
New Zealand are in it for the right reason. They
have a vision that they think will make our country
and our society better. And you know, to be an
effective politician you have to work incredibly hard, regardless of
your party affiliation, your your political philosophy, all of that stuff.
(08:38):
I think a lot of politicians are really thoughtful, smart,
clever people, the community minded. That's not to say all
of them, but generally speaking, yeah, I really do. I
really do admire them.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Okay, we're coming up to a break, But just quickly,
you've said that you love American politics, and how do
you think our politicians compare to America.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I'm just so glad that they don't compare, because I
mean America, I mean the theater of American politics, the
money on the line, the power on the line is
obviously completely dwarfs anything we have in the New Zealand system.
But as a result, I would say that the American
system has led to a kind of more divided and
(09:21):
you know, partisan society than fortunately we have. I just
hope we don't go down the same tribal route.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, I certainly hope so too. So a lot more
vanilla here, But vanilla is a fine flavor.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Vanilla is not necessarily a bad thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
The thing to remember is that the vast majority of
New Zealanders are actually somewhere in the middle when it
comes to politics. We actually agree on much more than
we disagree on m hm. And I think the way
that American politics has gone lately kind of emphasizes divisions
rather than the things that actually unite people.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
If you've just joined us, you'll know that voice. It's
Jack Tame I'm talking to him about his life and broadcasting.
We'll talk a bit more about what goes on in
the head and heart of Jack Tame after this break.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on news talks.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It be welcome back to real life, John Cown talking
of Jack Taman. You've picked some music for us. What
are we listening to that?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So that's a bit wronger, friend of the friend of
the station. Beautiful, beautiful musician. When I see you smile.
And the reason I chose that is I said, I
went to a school where music was a big part
of daily life. When I went to school, bit wronger
was there a couple of years before me. She was
the sort of paragon of musical success. So she was
(10:33):
a former student who had gone on to great things.
And I've always loved her music. There's something so beautiful
and pure about her, about a voice and about a songwriting.
And one of my recent broadcasting highlights was having her
in studio playing and yeah, so I just love that song.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So beautiful music and some Cantabrian loyalty. Yes. Well, back
to Alma Mater of Kashmir High too, right, too, right,
now we were talking before the break about your life
in America. But you're a married man now, that's right,
And I'm are you saying that being single gave you
an almost like a selfish window of opportunity to do things?
(11:14):
Has the window slam shot?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
I wouldn't say the window has slam shut, but I'm
certainly not living the same kind of selfish existence that
I might have been living a couple of years ago.
And when I talk about that, I just mean, you know, yeah,
I think any parent will know, or anyone who has
responsibilities and commitments will know that when you are thinking
about more than just yourself, you can't necessarily do what
(11:37):
you always want to do whenever you want to do it.
And that applies to lots of things.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
So you know, has that been a shock to you
or did you go.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Into until I want it? Yeah, and I'm ready for it.
So not only do I have my wonderful wife, Marva,
but I have a step son, Rumy, who's almost eight
years old, and so you know, he's a very big
part of my life now. And you know, it is
a bit of a shock to the system to you know,
essentially overnight go from living by yourself to living with
(12:07):
a living with a seven year old who you know,
wants to go into the backyard and kick a football
around and wants to play lego and wants to do
various things and needs to be taken from school to
basketball and needs to be dropped off and you know,
all of those things. But it's a part of life
I've been really excited about and feel very very ready for.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So I've heard that you were a great uncle.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Well yeah, so that peep isn't an uncle who's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I guess that was good training. I guess. Yeah, in
small doses you can interact with children, and now are
steps and in February and life changes again, for.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Life changes again. Yes, So my wife is eight months
pregnant at the moment, so we're very much counting down
the days and nesting. I've been, you know, over the
summer doing things like cleaning the weather boards on the
house because I know that there's not going to be
an opportunity to do that for another eighteen months or so.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I mean, so I've always I've always been around kids.
So I'm the oldest of four and you know, so
sort of feely involved with my siblings and am very
close with my siblings still when we were growing up,
I was very involved and we all talk all the time.
Now as you say, I'm an uncle, I have three siblings.
(13:26):
My sister has three kids in my and my brother
in law and sister in law have two kids as well,
so I've spent a lot of time with you know,
relatively young kids. I think the oldest of those is
six years old. So there's plenty of sort of wrestling
and playing in the backyard and that sort of stuff
as well.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So you're not going straight from being an international bachelor
children into this, yeah, yeah, merely of children and things.
So baby arriving, yep. And I'll just sort of terrify
you with the with the idea that many people find
the first year, first baby the most stressful of your life.
But it sounds like you've all prepared for that. And
(14:03):
are there things that you're looking forward to doing with
your child and with RUMI that you can recall your
own parents doing with you.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, my I just
think my parents did such an amazing job and I
feel so grateful to you know, everything, every kind of
opportunity they provided us with as children. I mean they were,
they were. I think my parents struck an amazing balance
between you know, showing us the value and importance of
(14:33):
hard work, but also being very present. And you know,
when I think about the things that my parents provided
us with, I think they really tried to give us
a richness in experiences. So they really they really prioritized
experiencing things over such as over material you know, over
material stuff, so little things like for example, my parents
(14:59):
love oysters, right, and on their wedding anniversary when we
were young, they never had much money, but they would
always for their wedding anniversary or for a birthday, whenever
whatever fell in the oyster season, they would prioritize getting
a dozen bluff oysters. And they absolutely loved oysters. But
we would sit around at home, four kids, they get
(15:20):
a dozen oysters, and they'd say, right, everyone eats an oyster.
And we say, oh, but it looks like looks gross,
it looks like'snot and they said, no, no, no, no, no,
we want you to experience this too. We want you
to come and try this food. We want you to
know what it taste like, and we want you to
be able to savor this moment with us, and so
with just twelve oysters, four of them would go to
the kids, who were never very grateful at the time,
of course, but it was like they wanted us to
(15:44):
not only to develop a palette and all of those things,
but they wanted us to be part of that experience
with them. And I just I look back at little
things like that and I'm like, that was that was
great parenting. And you know, I absolutely love oysters now.
So it's funny how these things come around. But yeah,
we were never my parents were. We were never a
family that valued kind of material possessions as much as
(16:06):
we valued little experiences like that.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I guess that's given you a taste not just for oysters,
but for life. Yeah, I think so that you can
go to Africa, you can go to Argentina, you can
go to these different places.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Absolutely, and I think it's given me a curiosity about
the world. It's it's really fostered a curiosity about the world.
And it means that I value experiences over stuff, and
I really hope that I can instill that in our
kids as well.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Well. You're gearing up to be that type of dance,
I hope.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
So, I mean it's well and good in theory, isn't it.
But yeah, I guess the proof of the puddings in
the eating.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Now as your world is interacted with Marv's world. Part
of her a big part of her world is her
Bar High Faith. Yeah, and I'm just wondering that must
have engaged that appetite for discovering something new as well.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, it's honestly just been such an enriching experience because
I don't come from a religious background personally, and you know,
I don't want to speak for the Ba High Faith,
but getting to you know, share a life within which
faith is a central component is has just been has
(17:17):
been a really really.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, a really.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Enriching experience for me and and so so I mean
in terms of day to day life. I mean, you know,
we we say prayers before bedtime, you know, we we
celebrate the High Holy Days. Mathers pretty involved in in
the small but nonetheless enthusiastic High community. And learning a
(17:42):
little bit about the faith, getting to know other people
through the faith has yeah, has just been a a
really really rich kind of experience for me, and and
you know, I talk about you know, valuing experiences in life.
I really feel like even from my perspective, it's kind
of opened my open my eyes to a part of
(18:05):
a part of life that I wasn't necessarily open to previously.
So no, it's been it's been all positive.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
So you haven't had to push down any sort of
cynical New Zealand reflexes that or part of your love
for Marva has been embracing this as well.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yeah. But also I mean the the I mean it's
you know, the the Again. I don't want to speak
for the faith necessarily, but a central tenet of the
b High Faith, as I understand it, is a goal
of the unity of humankind. And so so much of
what Marva and the other people in the High community
(18:42):
do here is done with a goal of unity, whether
it's at a at a at a local level, or
at a broader level, and it's very hard not to
see the benefit from that.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
It's admirable.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah, it's just it's admirable. But also yeah, and so
absolutely it's a you know, see seeing the kind of
things they do and the and the and the values
that underline a lot of their actions. I yeah, it's
all positive and I don't feel cynical about it. In fact,
if anything. It's just kind of opened my eyes to
(19:17):
perhaps a bit of a blind spot and a naivety
on my part, And so I feel quite positive about.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
That, okay, in that emphasis on unity, and you talk
before about the polarization you see in America especially, you
get to look at New Zealand and talk to the
newsmakers and the opinion makers and reflect on life in
New Zealand. Do you see that as being a real
risk in New Zealand life, that we're falling into camps
(19:44):
that we will not want to engage with anyone else
apart from those that agree with us. That yeah, type
of thing, that's a risk.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I do think it's a risk. I fortunately don't think
we are at the same kind of risk as the US,
and I don't think we'll hopefully ever be quite as
polarized and divided as they are right now. But I
do think there are lots of things contributing to that today,
whether it's the media environment and whether it's social media,
whether it's the nature of politics today. I think that
(20:12):
people are really easily seduced by tribalism. And you know,
one of the things I always try and remind myself
is that no one anywhere has a monopoly on good
ideas and regardless of their political philosophy, regardless of their
background or anything. And the things that you unite us,
there are so many more things that unite us than
divide us. And I just think a lot of the
(20:34):
way our modern society is structured means that we are
we put much more focus and attention on the things
that divide us. And I think that that's a really
dangerous and kind of seductive path.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
One of the things that's screaming in the back of
my head as you're talking about this is the need
for objective journalism when it comes to these issues. And
where's that going.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I mean, yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Think and work in that world all the time, and
where's journalism going.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I mean, I really worry for journalism, especially in New
Zealand because and I know that there are lots of
people who don't have a great sense of faith in
what might be termed the mainstream media these days. But
we have seen vast numbers of journalists lose their jobs
over the last few years, you know, including at my employers.
(21:24):
And I think you know that those I do think
journalism plays a really important role in as a fourth
or state in keeping power honest, in reflecting our society
back to us. And yeah, I worry about it. I
think it's a huge, huge point of concern, and I
(21:45):
don't think there are any easy solutions in New Zealand
right now.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I think one of the things that leads us into
these kind of tribal groups is when there isn't a
sort of generally accepted version of the truth. And I'm
not saying that journalists don't make mistakes, but I think
that the more journalism jobs we lose, the more likely
people are to kind of fall into these too tribal groups,
(22:09):
whereby they have completely different visions of reality.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
You just have little echo chambers that amplify and echo
what you already believe, yes, exactly, non challenging you, I mean,
and play.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
On your fears and securities as well, you know. And
I just think there's a kind of something about the
human condition that's, you know, that is easily easily mislead
by right by that, And I worry about it a lot.
I don't know what the solution is in New Zealand,
but I think where I really reckon our industry is
a massive pail at the.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Moment, I'm talking with Jack Tame who's looking back on
twenty years and broadcasting, even though he's only a young fellow.
And one of the interesting things I came across when
I was doing a bit of research on you was
an interview in the press with a seventeen year old
Jack taine Ah, and you were predicting what your future
is going to be and you spelled it out, you know,
how you wanted to end broadcasting and everything like this,
(23:05):
and if I can get you back in the studio
perhaps twenty forty five. Yeah, right, look back on the
next twenty years. Is there anything that you really want
to have ticked off in these next twenty years.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
That's a great question. I am just for the time being,
am incredibly grateful for having the job and roles that
I have. I mean here as z'd B and working
on Q and A. Honestly, to dream jobs for me.
In terms of future stuff, don't. I don't aspire to,
(23:37):
you know, to greater heights and broadcasting or anything like that.
I would love to be able to travel a little
bit more. I would love to be able to do
what I do a little bit more. But honestly, if
I am able to sustain a career in broadcasting through
to twenty forty five. I mean, that would be an
incredible achievement in itself, and there's nothing at the moment
(23:57):
soul necessarily be able to. But you know, the other
thing is, truthfully, I sometimes wonder, if, you know, maybe
maybe another career is on the cards at some point,
and I don't know what necessarily I would do or
you know where that might end up. But I'm interested
in lots of things that I wasn't interested in as
a seventeen year old, because I think curiosity leads to learning,
(24:20):
which leads to greater curiosity, which leads to learning, and
it's this wonderful kind of cycle. So yeah, you know,
whether it's business, economics, you know, international development, all sorts
of things. I have a real kind of burning curiosity
about the world. So you know, it might be that
if we were speaking in twenty forty five, maybe I'll
(24:40):
be working in broadcasting and that'd be great. Maybe I
will have had a completely different career and that could
be great.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Who knows. I hope you never lose that curiosity. I
wish you all the best in your new adventures in
fatherhood and I'll put it on the diary to have
your bank in twenty forty five, we'll have a catch
up very good, hopefully maybe even sooner than that.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
I look forward to that. Hey, thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
It's been my privilege to talk to Jack Taime. Who's
going to pick some music for us as we go out.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, we're going to go daft punk, so I do.
I played something nice and gentle from a first song,
but punk. I love a bit of dance music. This
is the French duo, of course, and this is a
song that features Julian Casablancas, who is the lead singer
of The Strokes. There's a real New York connection there
as well, which I love.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Fantastic. This is real life. I'm John Cowen, looking forward
to being with you next Sunday night.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
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