July 7, 2024 • 23 mins
Kevin has been a fixture in the Aotearoa New Zealand film industry for over thirty years. He directed the highly successful Air New Zealand Nothing to Hide Brand campaign. His other celebrated projects, which have become cultural icons in New Zealand, include the Mitre 10 “Sandpit,” Toyota “Everyday People,” and the National Depression Initiative, which featured rugby legend Sir John Kirwan.
During the COVID-19 pandemic, Kevin reached out to support the film community, and the floodgates opened. This led him to pursue studies in chaplaincy to acquire the skills necessary for offering a calm, compassionate, and empathetic presence to those in need.
Kevin holds a master’s degree in Chaplaincy from the University of Otago and is currently pursuing a PhD. He has also been formally ordained by the Anglican Church of Aotearoa. With his deep commitment to listening and supporting others, Kevin is well-equipped to serve the film community.
Kevin and his wife, Nikki, reside in Auckland and have three daughters and a son-in-law.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk SEDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Real Conversation, Real Connection, It's Real Life with John Cowen
on News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Caday, Welcome to real Life. I was delighted when I
learned that Kevin Denham was going to be my guest
because I used to know a nineteen eighty five version
of Kevin Denham, and I'm sort of interested to know
what the twenty twenty four versions like. So, Kevin, Welcome
to real life.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Hi John, good to see you again.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
A few things have changed over the years.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Indeed they have. I've got less hair.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Oh well, look, that's a sign of maturity. I think
it suits us both very well. It does. At about
that stage when I knew you said decades ago you
were heading off into a career in film, and you've
done pretty darned well in that. I mean, you've had
decades now of being an award winning film producer, mostly commercials.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, I've had an amazing career. Actually with our company Exposure,
We've done all sorts of things, traveled all around the world.
We've done a mixture of documentary work, particularly in the
humanitarian space, but also lots of commercial work for the
likes of Toyota and ye New Zealand and whatnot.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I went on your website and saw that most of
the ads that I've sort of remembered over the years,
for Toyota and Yar New Zealand and Whittakers and even
the minor ten ad of the Kids in the Sandpit,
you know, you've produced them. Yeah, it's quite a portfolio.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And so you've been doing that for decades and decades,
being incredibly successful, and then bang you turn around to
become an Anglican priest. What they heck's that about?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah? Great question? Maybe perhaps that was what COVID did to.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Me, Is that right? It was during that time that
you'd considered a change of track.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Look, COVID was certainly a catalyst for it, but it
was something that it's been bubbling away there for me
for a very very long time.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Right. I guess it shouldn't be a complete shock because
I know your mum and dad very well. In fact,
I've seen more of them over the last few decades
than I have of you and your dad. Was a
Baptist minister, correct, and so the fact that you would
be inspired by what he did not very surprising that
you'd want to consider that line. Why Anglican? You know,
(02:48):
he was the Baptist of the Baptists.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, well, Dad asked me that same question. Why Anglican?
For me, what really appeals to me about the Anglican tradition,
I think is the tradition and the fact that it
is probably the broadest church in this country.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It's broadest in what sense.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, it accommodates a whole wide variety of approaches to
spirituality and Christian faith. At one end you might have
very liberal people and at the other end extremely conservative.
But we all meet around a central table, which I
really love.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Okay, So when someone says they're an Anglican, they still
haven't told you very much, have they?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
And I think that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I have to tell what type of Anglican that you are.
I mean, as your faith growing, I mean growing up
in a Christian home. I've observed that some people, especially
perhaps p KS preacher kids, they can either rebel against
it or they can adopt it, but more typically they
modify it. Is your faith different from the faith that
(04:01):
you would have had as a young person.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Great question, and I think the honest answer to that
is both yes and no.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Oh you should go for politics, mate, the Anglican thing
doesn't work out. Yeah, yes, that out.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
No, Look, but it's genuine. Firstly, as you've mentioned, I
grew up in a really strong faith based home, hugely
influenced by my mother and father and their life of service.
And so this faith that I had, this God that
I believed in, was formed very early in my life,
(04:40):
and that faith has remained. That the sort of almost
that fun childlike aspect of my faith remains today. But
what has changed is perhaps my understanding of what it
looks like. I've been really fortunate in my work to
(05:00):
travel extensively.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Fifty countries I saw on a list somewhere you'd.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Put, yeah, it's actually a lot more than that, but really, yeah,
it's actually closer to one hundred. But yeah, it's a
huge amount of travel. But in that I've been able
to see witness be part of all sorts of faith
expressions and not just Christian and that has helpful my worldview.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Okay, so did that answer your question. Yeah, so it's
perhaps not as finely focused. Are your PEPs are shrug
your shoulders at what other people are doing? More and go? Yeah,
I can accept that as valid as well.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
One hundred percent. So yeah, absolutely have become less black
and white and hopefully a whole lot less judgmental.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah. So yeah, okay, yeah, So as this faith thing
is is real to you? When can I ask you? When?
Is God real to you? When do you spoke most sense? Yeah,
that God is there for you? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Again, great question. I think I sense God's reality every
day in various ways. Primarily, I would say through his creation,
So through this insanely beautiful country that we live in.
(06:28):
I spend a lot of time out on our tier
Great Barrier Island, and you know, God's very close to
me there. But also I would say in the people,
this wide, vast, deeply rich range of human beings that
we have on this planet, as He got in all
(06:50):
of them.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Now, I could understand someone saying God's very real when
you're walking through a beautiful piece of bush or a
lovely beach over on Great Barrier, But you've also been
in Brazilian prisons, You've been with people dying from AIDS.
Is God real? Then? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Probably more so. Actually, I think God tends to My
experience is that God often shows up during the toughest
times of someone's life, whether that be in around death, dying,
grieful loss, or or some sort of hardship. We've done
(07:30):
a lot of work in prisons around the world, and
you know, there's a you know, I don't know who
quoted it, but the saying was, if you want to
if you want to meet God, go to prison. And
it's sort of true because people often at their lowest point,
will then reach out to something that is perhaps a
(07:52):
higher power, a higher sense, something certainly a whole lot
bigger than themselves.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Okay, now, preparing for tonight, I've looked through your website
and noticed an awful lot of pictures of you hanging
around with glamorous people. There's people you have movie stars
and bear grills and as you've mentioned, zotting off around
the world and you've become an Anglican priest. Yeah, okay,
(08:24):
isn't that very dull compared to what you are doing?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
No, it's not so a little bit of history, Yes,
it is true. We have I've been able to live
a very fortunate, very exciting life of travel and meeting
call people and all the rest of it. But alongside that,
I guess I've always had some sort of, I guess
(08:51):
a sense of calling around the pastoral needs of people
and our industry. The film industry is an industry that
is really hard. It's a very very tough industry.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
To be in.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
It's it it's huge, long hours, demanding schedules. You know,
you're only ever as good as your next job, which
you don't actually know which it is. And so there's
huge insecurity in our industry and it takes a huge
toll on people's well being, their relationships, their own mental health.
(09:33):
And so I've always had a bit of an ear
to the ground for that stuff, probably because of the
family that have come from.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So you were sort of like a de facto past
or even within the industry before you became officially a priest.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, so yeah, probably, I'd certainly had a lot of
people that would make their way to my office or
have a quiet conversation. And then actually during COVID, our
business really hit the wall because we couldn't travel, We
had all our local clients stopped, and after thirty years
(10:12):
of trading pretty successfully, we had to virtually shut the doors.
Very tough time. But what I did was on that
first week of that very first lockdown, was that I
sent an email out to about three hundred of the
crew that I had worked with in the previous six
months or so, and I just said, hey, look, you
(10:35):
know that I'm a director. You know that that's you know,
this part of me. But what you don't know is
that I actually have been training in pastoral care and
then some chaplaincy staff and if you want to talk,
now as a good as time as any, and the
floodgates just opened.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Well really yeah, So yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I had over one hundred responses from that one email.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Well, okay, I'm a little gobs back because I sort
of think of New Zealand as been pretty secular, and
the film industry could even be especially secular. And so
if you throw the word chaplain or pastor or something
at an industry like that, a culture like that, I
(11:22):
would have thought people would have thought that is very
alien to me. I'm a generation or so removed from
anything to do with church. It's a little bit weird.
That's not the response you've had.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Well, I should say that that was before I became
an actual ordained.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
So at that point you were just a mate who
had some skills and people were keen to talk about
as a mate and a fellow director sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yeah, correct, and probably didn't have this you know, label
on me priest. Yeah, yeah, or chaplain. I prefer to
say chaplain, but.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, look, you're probably better define that term chaplain.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah, okay. One of the very best descriptions of what
a chaplain is simply a non anxious presence. That's what
a chaplain does.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Oh, I think I need several of them exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
But it's quite lovely, isn't it. A non anxious presence.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
So in order to be that, you have to be present,
So you have to be there. You can't call it in.
So firstly, you have to walk the walk. Yeah, And
that's the great thing about the film industry as we
have to be present. We have to be on location,
all of us, whether we're the director or the camera
person or the whatever, and now in my case the chaplain.
(12:41):
But we as a chaplain, my job is simply to
offer a non anxious presence in a very anxious environment.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And because you've got this title of priest, even if
people aren't very church affiliated these days, or have much experience,
they know that instantly they can probably start talking at
a fairly unguarded level about things close to their heart.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Correct, Yeah, it probably. It probably works as a sheepgate,
to be honest, What does that mean? People either go yes,
you're in or no, you're absolutely I don't want to
have anything.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
To do with you. You get that result. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Look, I think there's a few people that just they
see me coming and stare at their feet.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I wonder if that's because they've had some negative experience
in the past of some of highly luck person of
a religious label, highly love and I'll project that onto
you absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, that'll be a tough one to
work around, forssible. Yeah, but in general now ministers work
out of churches and things like that. So you're not
(13:47):
working out of.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
A church, No, No, I'm not. So what I'm doing
is trying to establish this film chaplaincy service. So I've
got this very cool caravan and a great Toyota to
pull it along, and they is that I will be
(14:11):
a rock up onto a film location and set myself up.
I've got a beautiful lumma sooka coffee machine, and we
just go from there.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I'm talking with Kevin Denham, a very successful film director
and producer, and he has a change of direction and
now a film chaplain. I'm going to ask him after
the break whether his caravan's got stained glass and how
he actually goes about this, and also some other interesting
things I know that he's involved in. This is real life.
(14:40):
I'm John Cown talking with Kevin Denham.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on News
Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Welcome back to real life. My guest tonight is film
producer Kevin Denham, now the Reverend Kevin Demnham Denim who's
picked some David Bowie for us? What's the story behind that?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Look, I'm just a huge Bowie fan. I always have
been since since I was young. Yeah, I'm just a
complete fan.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Which Bowie meaning that there was a nineteen eighty five
version of you in a twenty twenty four version. There's
about five versions of David Bowie too.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
And that's what I love about him. He was just
so brilliant and I just thought, look, you know, I
knew we'd probably be talking a little bit about this
transition that I hadn't in my life so the song
changes seemed somewhat appropriate.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Changes, correct. Yeah, and during the break you mentioned a
fascinating interaction that you had with David Bowie. You've beat
the man up exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Look as a little fifteen year old I, in fact,
this is how I got into film. I was lucky
enough to have a small role in the movie Merry Christmas,
Mister Lawrence, where when Bowie was in the prisoner of
war camp, he had this flashback of when he was
a kid, and anyway I was. I was the low
(16:08):
bully that beat them up, but brute, but was fortunate
enough to also have lunch for them one day.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
So okay, I wonder how many people thinking, yeah, I'd
like to have a career in film. I think I'll
start off with a big, big start in a Hollywood movie.
So that was a pretty good step up in the
in the industry for you.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Well, it was genuinely my first experience. And I remember
going on to the set and they had this incredible
table at lunchtime where there was oysters. Remember that, and
I was like, man, this industry is for me.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Did you get an IMDb entry for that?
Speaker 3 (16:44):
No, it's my eternal It still hurts, and I'm sorry
you even asked.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
That that was a bruise.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
It was so for whatever reason, even though I had
a very small speaking part and cut me from the credits.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Oh well, look, I did some research before speaking to you.
They don't mention film chaplains in the credits and movies either,
And I did some digging around and they said no,
they they limit it to production crew. They don't. They
limit to everybody. The first cousins of the people related
to get gets listed in those credits, but no chaplains.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
No.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Well, so you're not going to be getting mentioned in
these movies that you're going to be providing the health for.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
How we were talking before the break about how you
now a film chaplain. You've got this big caravan, you
take it to where the crews are working. Then what
do you do? Do you just lurk around behind the
cameras and people grab you? Or so? How does it work?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Okay, So there's this another really great phrase when you
asked about what a chaplain does? We loiter with intent,
which you know you've got to be a bit careful
where you pull that line out. That is literally, well,
what a chaplain does okay, so the beauty and look,
I must state that this film chaplaincy thing is in
(18:03):
its infancy.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
You've worked out how to do it as you're doing I.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Literally am you know. It's very very early days.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yes, and runs on the board already.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
There's to use yeah yeah, not physically on location that
has yet to come, but.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Definitely people working within the industry have availed themselves.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Absolutely, and a lot of people have made their way
to my not so little caravan.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yes, so it's the how religious is it? I mean?
I can imagine that people might come and talk to
you about stress and anxiety and mental health and relationship problems,
maybe even work problems. Do you actually does it touch
much upon religious stuff?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Only if they bring it up. So again, chaplain says
for all faiths and none. So we're not there to proselytize.
We're not there to sort of waive this big Christian banner,
but we are there to offer perhaps something around spiritual
(19:09):
support and and what that looks like in a world
where you know, there's lots of support you can get
for mental health now and coaching and all sorts, but
there's very little available for that really deep stuff around crisis.
(19:30):
You know, if you are having a real crisis, often
you just need someone to talk to or that can
listen to you.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
You know, you mentioned you go over to Great Barrier,
and I do did hear that you went over for
a holiday in Great Barrier over the summer and all
of a sudden people started dying around you. I don't
think you were responsible, but.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I hope not.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
How many funerals did you end up doing on your holiday? Well,
I ate eight funerals on your holiday.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, but look, it's I should state it's not my holiday,
and it's like, is my home my yea, so it's I.
I sort of live between Auckland and Great Barrier, and
so I'm very much lucky to be part.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Of that community over there. It is.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, So yeah, I'm very closely connected. So all of
these people I knew they were all.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
In that case, by sympathy is for losing so many people,
you know, but you've but that would have this idea
of dealing with people in their crisis, and there are
times of deepest need that would have been you must
have been thinking, this is what I was training for,
This is my calling.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Absolutely right, that's absolutely right. I feel so privileged to
be able to be with people, particularly around death, whether
that is someone who is dying. And maybe that's where
this role of the priests comes in.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Now that marks you out, as you talked about a calling,
and I think you'd need a calling for that, because
a lot of people would be hearing this and thinking, no,
you'd find somewhere else on the island to go if
that was you know that was going on. But you
don't mind being there.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Quite the contrary, Actually, it's I mean, you don't say
you enjoy it, but it is such a rich experience
to be with someone as they are passing from this
world into whatever they feel is coming next, and to
be with them and also their families and their loved
(21:50):
ones at that time, and to be able to perhaps
hold them or hold the space in a way that
what do you mean by that, Well, you're I guess
the role of a chaplain or a priest, or a
minister or in that space is to hold something of
the sacred that is happening. It is death is a
(22:14):
very sacred thing. You know, whether you believe in this
that or whatever it is, it is still a very
powerful moment in time. And so to be present there
and to be able to offer support in some way.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Is yeah, Kevin, I can. I can see that this
is your thing and that the excitement of working with
movie stars and things pales with this idea of dealing
with things that are sacred. Kevin, it's been a privilege
talking to you. Great catching up with you after all
these years. Thank you for coming in.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Thank you, John.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
This is real life on News talk S ed B.
I'm John Cown. Been talking with movie producer. Now meet
your film chaplain, Kevin Denham and he's chosen Purple Rain
to go out with. Kevin.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Thanks so much, Thanks so much, John.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
For more from News Talk said B, listen live on
air or online, and our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk SEDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Real Conversation, Real Connection, It's Real Life with John Cowen
on News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Caday, Welcome to real Life. I was delighted when I
learned that Kevin Denham was going to be my guest
because I used to know a nineteen eighty five version
of Kevin Denham, and I'm sort of interested to know
what the twenty twenty four versions like. So, Kevin, Welcome
to real life.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Hi John, good to see you again.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
A few things have changed over the years.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Indeed they have. I've got less hair.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Oh well, look, that's a sign of maturity. I think
it suits us both very well. It does. At about
that stage when I knew you said decades ago you
were heading off into a career in film, and you've
done pretty darned well in that. I mean, you've had
decades now of being an award winning film producer, mostly commercials.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, I've had an amazing career. Actually with our company Exposure,
We've done all sorts of things, traveled all around the world.
We've done a mixture of documentary work, particularly in the
humanitarian space, but also lots of commercial work for the
likes of Toyota and ye New Zealand and whatnot.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I went on your website and saw that most of
the ads that I've sort of remembered over the years,
for Toyota and Yar New Zealand and Whittakers and even
the minor ten ad of the Kids in the Sandpit,
you know, you've produced them. Yeah, it's quite a portfolio.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And so you've been doing that for decades and decades,
being incredibly successful, and then bang you turn around to
become an Anglican priest. What they heck's that about?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah? Great question? Maybe perhaps that was what COVID did to.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Me, Is that right? It was during that time that
you'd considered a change of track.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Look, COVID was certainly a catalyst for it, but it
was something that it's been bubbling away there for me
for a very very long time.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Right. I guess it shouldn't be a complete shock because
I know your mum and dad very well. In fact,
I've seen more of them over the last few decades
than I have of you and your dad. Was a
Baptist minister, correct, and so the fact that you would
be inspired by what he did not very surprising that
you'd want to consider that line. Why Anglican? You know,
(02:48):
he was the Baptist of the Baptists.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, well, Dad asked me that same question. Why Anglican?
For me, what really appeals to me about the Anglican tradition,
I think is the tradition and the fact that it
is probably the broadest church in this country.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It's broadest in what sense.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, it accommodates a whole wide variety of approaches to
spirituality and Christian faith. At one end you might have
very liberal people and at the other end extremely conservative.
But we all meet around a central table, which I
really love.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Okay, So when someone says they're an Anglican, they still
haven't told you very much, have they?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
And I think that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I have to tell what type of Anglican that you are.
I mean, as your faith growing, I mean growing up
in a Christian home. I've observed that some people, especially
perhaps p KS preacher kids, they can either rebel against
it or they can adopt it, but more typically they
modify it. Is your faith different from the faith that
(04:01):
you would have had as a young person.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Great question, and I think the honest answer to that
is both yes and no.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Oh you should go for politics, mate, the Anglican thing
doesn't work out. Yeah, yes, that out.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
No, Look, but it's genuine. Firstly, as you've mentioned, I
grew up in a really strong faith based home, hugely
influenced by my mother and father and their life of service.
And so this faith that I had, this God that
I believed in, was formed very early in my life,
(04:40):
and that faith has remained. That the sort of almost
that fun childlike aspect of my faith remains today. But
what has changed is perhaps my understanding of what it
looks like. I've been really fortunate in my work to
(05:00):
travel extensively.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Fifty countries I saw on a list somewhere you'd.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Put, yeah, it's actually a lot more than that, but really, yeah,
it's actually closer to one hundred. But yeah, it's a
huge amount of travel. But in that I've been able
to see witness be part of all sorts of faith
expressions and not just Christian and that has helpful my worldview.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Okay, so did that answer your question. Yeah, so it's
perhaps not as finely focused. Are your PEPs are shrug
your shoulders at what other people are doing? More and go? Yeah,
I can accept that as valid as well.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
One hundred percent. So yeah, absolutely have become less black
and white and hopefully a whole lot less judgmental.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah. So yeah, okay, yeah, So as this faith thing
is is real to you? When can I ask you? When?
Is God real to you? When do you spoke most sense? Yeah,
that God is there for you? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Again, great question. I think I sense God's reality every
day in various ways. Primarily, I would say through his creation,
So through this insanely beautiful country that we live in.
(06:28):
I spend a lot of time out on our tier
Great Barrier Island, and you know, God's very close to
me there. But also I would say in the people,
this wide, vast, deeply rich range of human beings that
we have on this planet, as He got in all
(06:50):
of them.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Now, I could understand someone saying God's very real when
you're walking through a beautiful piece of bush or a
lovely beach over on Great Barrier, But you've also been
in Brazilian prisons, You've been with people dying from AIDS.
Is God real? Then? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Probably more so. Actually, I think God tends to My
experience is that God often shows up during the toughest
times of someone's life, whether that be in around death, dying,
grieful loss, or or some sort of hardship. We've done
(07:30):
a lot of work in prisons around the world, and
you know, there's a you know, I don't know who
quoted it, but the saying was, if you want to
if you want to meet God, go to prison. And
it's sort of true because people often at their lowest point,
will then reach out to something that is perhaps a
(07:52):
higher power, a higher sense, something certainly a whole lot
bigger than themselves.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Okay, now, preparing for tonight, I've looked through your website
and noticed an awful lot of pictures of you hanging
around with glamorous people. There's people you have movie stars
and bear grills and as you've mentioned, zotting off around
the world and you've become an Anglican priest. Yeah, okay,
(08:24):
isn't that very dull compared to what you are doing?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
No, it's not so a little bit of history, Yes,
it is true. We have I've been able to live
a very fortunate, very exciting life of travel and meeting
call people and all the rest of it. But alongside that,
I guess I've always had some sort of, I guess
(08:51):
a sense of calling around the pastoral needs of people
and our industry. The film industry is an industry that
is really hard. It's a very very tough industry.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
To be in.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
It's it it's huge, long hours, demanding schedules. You know,
you're only ever as good as your next job, which
you don't actually know which it is. And so there's
huge insecurity in our industry and it takes a huge
toll on people's well being, their relationships, their own mental health.
(09:33):
And so I've always had a bit of an ear
to the ground for that stuff, probably because of the
family that have come from.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So you were sort of like a de facto past
or even within the industry before you became officially a priest.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, so yeah, probably, I'd certainly had a lot of
people that would make their way to my office or
have a quiet conversation. And then actually during COVID, our
business really hit the wall because we couldn't travel, We
had all our local clients stopped, and after thirty years
(10:12):
of trading pretty successfully, we had to virtually shut the doors.
Very tough time. But what I did was on that
first week of that very first lockdown, was that I
sent an email out to about three hundred of the
crew that I had worked with in the previous six
months or so, and I just said, hey, look, you
(10:35):
know that I'm a director. You know that that's you know,
this part of me. But what you don't know is
that I actually have been training in pastoral care and
then some chaplaincy staff and if you want to talk,
now as a good as time as any, and the
floodgates just opened.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Well really yeah, So yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I had over one hundred responses from that one email.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Well, okay, I'm a little gobs back because I sort
of think of New Zealand as been pretty secular, and
the film industry could even be especially secular. And so
if you throw the word chaplain or pastor or something
at an industry like that, a culture like that, I
(11:22):
would have thought people would have thought that is very
alien to me. I'm a generation or so removed from
anything to do with church. It's a little bit weird.
That's not the response you've had.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Well, I should say that that was before I became
an actual ordained.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
So at that point you were just a mate who
had some skills and people were keen to talk about
as a mate and a fellow director sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yeah, correct, and probably didn't have this you know, label
on me priest. Yeah, yeah, or chaplain. I prefer to
say chaplain, but.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, look, you're probably better define that term chaplain.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah, okay. One of the very best descriptions of what
a chaplain is simply a non anxious presence. That's what
a chaplain does.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Oh, I think I need several of them exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
But it's quite lovely, isn't it. A non anxious presence.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
So in order to be that, you have to be present,
So you have to be there. You can't call it in.
So firstly, you have to walk the walk. Yeah, And
that's the great thing about the film industry as we
have to be present. We have to be on location,
all of us, whether we're the director or the camera
person or the whatever, and now in my case the chaplain.
(12:41):
But we as a chaplain, my job is simply to
offer a non anxious presence in a very anxious environment.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And because you've got this title of priest, even if
people aren't very church affiliated these days, or have much experience,
they know that instantly they can probably start talking at
a fairly unguarded level about things close to their heart.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Correct, Yeah, it probably. It probably works as a sheepgate,
to be honest, What does that mean? People either go yes,
you're in or no, you're absolutely I don't want to
have anything.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
To do with you. You get that result. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Look, I think there's a few people that just they
see me coming and stare at their feet.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I wonder if that's because they've had some negative experience
in the past of some of highly luck person of
a religious label, highly love and I'll project that onto
you absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, that'll be a tough one to
work around, forssible. Yeah, but in general now ministers work
out of churches and things like that. So you're not
(13:47):
working out of.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
A church, No, No, I'm not. So what I'm doing
is trying to establish this film chaplaincy service. So I've
got this very cool caravan and a great Toyota to
pull it along, and they is that I will be
(14:11):
a rock up onto a film location and set myself up.
I've got a beautiful lumma sooka coffee machine, and we
just go from there.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I'm talking with Kevin Denham, a very successful film director
and producer, and he has a change of direction and
now a film chaplain. I'm going to ask him after
the break whether his caravan's got stained glass and how
he actually goes about this, and also some other interesting
things I know that he's involved in. This is real life.
(14:40):
I'm John Cown talking with Kevin Denham.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on News
Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Welcome back to real life. My guest tonight is film
producer Kevin Denham, now the Reverend Kevin Demnham Denim who's
picked some David Bowie for us? What's the story behind that?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Look, I'm just a huge Bowie fan. I always have
been since since I was young. Yeah, I'm just a
complete fan.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Which Bowie meaning that there was a nineteen eighty five
version of you in a twenty twenty four version. There's
about five versions of David Bowie too.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
And that's what I love about him. He was just
so brilliant and I just thought, look, you know, I
knew we'd probably be talking a little bit about this
transition that I hadn't in my life so the song
changes seemed somewhat appropriate.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Changes, correct. Yeah, and during the break you mentioned a
fascinating interaction that you had with David Bowie. You've beat
the man up exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Look as a little fifteen year old I, in fact,
this is how I got into film. I was lucky
enough to have a small role in the movie Merry Christmas,
Mister Lawrence, where when Bowie was in the prisoner of
war camp, he had this flashback of when he was
a kid, and anyway I was. I was the low
(16:08):
bully that beat them up, but brute, but was fortunate
enough to also have lunch for them one day.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
So okay, I wonder how many people thinking, yeah, I'd
like to have a career in film. I think I'll
start off with a big, big start in a Hollywood movie.
So that was a pretty good step up in the
in the industry for you.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Well, it was genuinely my first experience. And I remember
going on to the set and they had this incredible
table at lunchtime where there was oysters. Remember that, and
I was like, man, this industry is for me.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Did you get an IMDb entry for that?
Speaker 3 (16:44):
No, it's my eternal It still hurts, and I'm sorry
you even asked.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
That that was a bruise.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
It was so for whatever reason, even though I had
a very small speaking part and cut me from the credits.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Oh well, look, I did some research before speaking to you.
They don't mention film chaplains in the credits and movies either,
And I did some digging around and they said no,
they they limit it to production crew. They don't. They
limit to everybody. The first cousins of the people related
to get gets listed in those credits, but no chaplains.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
No.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Well, so you're not going to be getting mentioned in
these movies that you're going to be providing the health for.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
How we were talking before the break about how you
now a film chaplain. You've got this big caravan, you
take it to where the crews are working. Then what
do you do? Do you just lurk around behind the
cameras and people grab you? Or so? How does it work?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Okay, So there's this another really great phrase when you
asked about what a chaplain does? We loiter with intent,
which you know you've got to be a bit careful
where you pull that line out. That is literally, well,
what a chaplain does okay, so the beauty and look,
I must state that this film chaplaincy thing is in
(18:03):
its infancy.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
You've worked out how to do it as you're doing I.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Literally am you know. It's very very early days.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yes, and runs on the board already.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
There's to use yeah yeah, not physically on location that
has yet to come, but.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Definitely people working within the industry have availed themselves.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Absolutely, and a lot of people have made their way
to my not so little caravan.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yes, so it's the how religious is it? I mean?
I can imagine that people might come and talk to
you about stress and anxiety and mental health and relationship problems,
maybe even work problems. Do you actually does it touch
much upon religious stuff?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Only if they bring it up. So again, chaplain says
for all faiths and none. So we're not there to proselytize.
We're not there to sort of waive this big Christian banner,
but we are there to offer perhaps something around spiritual
(19:09):
support and and what that looks like in a world
where you know, there's lots of support you can get
for mental health now and coaching and all sorts, but
there's very little available for that really deep stuff around crisis.
(19:30):
You know, if you are having a real crisis, often
you just need someone to talk to or that can
listen to you.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
You know, you mentioned you go over to Great Barrier,
and I do did hear that you went over for
a holiday in Great Barrier over the summer and all
of a sudden people started dying around you. I don't
think you were responsible, but.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I hope not.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
How many funerals did you end up doing on your holiday? Well,
I ate eight funerals on your holiday.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, but look, it's I should state it's not my holiday,
and it's like, is my home my yea, so it's I.
I sort of live between Auckland and Great Barrier, and
so I'm very much lucky to be part.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Of that community over there. It is.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, So yeah, I'm very closely connected. So all of
these people I knew they were all.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
In that case, by sympathy is for losing so many people,
you know, but you've but that would have this idea
of dealing with people in their crisis, and there are
times of deepest need that would have been you must
have been thinking, this is what I was training for,
This is my calling.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Absolutely right, that's absolutely right. I feel so privileged to
be able to be with people, particularly around death, whether
that is someone who is dying. And maybe that's where
this role of the priests comes in.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Now that marks you out, as you talked about a calling,
and I think you'd need a calling for that, because
a lot of people would be hearing this and thinking, no,
you'd find somewhere else on the island to go if
that was you know that was going on. But you
don't mind being there.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Quite the contrary, Actually, it's I mean, you don't say
you enjoy it, but it is such a rich experience
to be with someone as they are passing from this
world into whatever they feel is coming next, and to
be with them and also their families and their loved
(21:50):
ones at that time, and to be able to perhaps
hold them or hold the space in a way that
what do you mean by that, Well, you're I guess
the role of a chaplain or a priest, or a
minister or in that space is to hold something of
the sacred that is happening. It is death is a
(22:14):
very sacred thing. You know, whether you believe in this
that or whatever it is, it is still a very
powerful moment in time. And so to be present there
and to be able to offer support in some way.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Is yeah, Kevin, I can. I can see that this
is your thing and that the excitement of working with
movie stars and things pales with this idea of dealing
with things that are sacred. Kevin, it's been a privilege
talking to you. Great catching up with you after all
these years. Thank you for coming in.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Thank you, John.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
This is real life on News talk S ed B.
I'm John Cown. Been talking with movie producer. Now meet
your film chaplain, Kevin Denham and he's chosen Purple Rain
to go out with. Kevin.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Thanks so much, Thanks so much, John.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
For more from News Talk said B, listen live on
air or online, and our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
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