June 16, 2024 • 23 mins
Wayne Brown is a seasoned leader with experience in business and public service, from steering large New Zealand businesses to serving as Mayor of New Zealand’s largest city.
But beyond the boardroom and council chambers, Wayne is a keen surfer. He spends his spare time riding the swells and advocating for the protection of our marine environment, all while enjoying the company of his wife, Toni and their two children.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real life with John Cowen
on News Talks ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Gooday, welcome to real life and welcome to my guest,
Utan's Mayor Wayne Brown. Welcome, Wayne, Hi John, you're Tato now.
I remember when I started on the radio, the advice
I was given was don't mention Auckland. The rest of
the country doesn't want to hear about Auckland. But heck,
you're the mayor of the place, so tell me the
(00:44):
best things about Auckland.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, I might be the mayor of the place, but
I am a town and country boy. You know. I've
lived a lot of my time in Orkland, a lot
of my time in the Far North as well, and
I still share houses in both. So I can see
the importance of linking the whole country rather than and
I don't like the sort of rabid being pro or
anti Auckland. Organ's got his place in the rest of
(01:08):
the country has got as plays. The rest of the
country pays the bills for Auckland in some way, so
I think I'm grateful for the rest of the country.
But Orckland itself is our only large city and Orkland
Council it's completely different from our other council because it's
a regional council. It's a regional government. Really, what's best
about Orkland. I'm looking out the window and it's the
(01:30):
wide amount of harbor and the Hrrickee Gulf, no question.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And you've got a boat and you like to get
out on it occasionally.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yes, I've got a boat and I've got a clicking
of surfboards do so. I spent as much time in
the water as I can right now.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
You grew up in a very different Auckland. I can
remember a huge parade sixty years ago this month when
we celebrated reaching half a million in our population. We're
all seeing the song We're a great big city.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I don't know if you remember that at all, but
it's three times that size now. Has Auckland scaled well?
Has it has it growing well?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Do you think it? Like a lot of things. It's
the curate's egg. It's good in parts, you know, some
of what's been done really well. In other of its
have been a bit of a catastrophe. It's so easy
to look back and say, you know, did we expect
to be nearly two million people in my life? Done?
Probably not. I don't know where the New Zealand scale
(02:33):
particularly cleverly either, having a thirty of people in one city.
I don't think that bright. Really, we have got a
third about people and we and we've got government and
Willington seem to think we should have more. I'm not
absolutely mad about that. You know, there's not only is
it back when when we were kids what we expected
(02:54):
was a lot less too. I mean, we had a
group of people yesterday and coming seeing that they wanted
more housing. But I grew up in a house that
just had one toilve and one bathroom and no insulation,
and we lived, you know, And now people expect to
have tiles on the walls and two bathrooms, even in
houses that the government's paying for. I mean, you know,
(03:17):
we build garages for people. When we used to leave
the cars outside and we're kids, and the cracked cars
and so, I mean my dad at four to eight
good hard to get and we used to go on
holidays up north and he'd get quite it was a
long day to get to they's beach, you know, in
(03:39):
the morning, wait for hours to get on the ferry
to go across the Devonport and then mid head born
and Dad to get really quite agitated about Kywalker because
he could think of the Brindowans coming. And we never
ever got over the Brindurwans without the car boiling over
off of the road, and my job was going to
(04:00):
get a little sticktion. They'd get out to come to
ther Met and my daddould boiler therm Met for a
cup of tea while the car unboiled, so we drag it.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
A different world and I bet it had one of
those windscreen wipers that if you're going uphill in the rain,
the windscreen wipers would stop because they're vacuum powered. It
was a different, different world back then. But with Auckland
you've mentioned some bits are done well, some bits are catastrophes.
You describe that. But what would you like to see
(04:33):
changed about Auckland? What things I know, and some of
them might not be changeable by a mayor even But
what would you like to see different?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Well, there are some things and I'm changing them already.
I mean, I'll focus on the harbor to extend because
it's the one thing that makes Auckland a great city
compared to just another city, and that I've been hassling
the port to finally make some money and shrink its
size so that people I want it by the end
(05:01):
of the year be able to go and have a
swim down there in the harbor. And that's something I've
always wanted to do. In a pool, a simple cheap
floating pool, we can do a lot of things without
spending a lot of money. We've lost the ability to
actually do things cheaply, and we've that comes from unfortunately
(05:25):
too much central government influence on Auckland. I want to
see a hell of out less Wellington in Auckland. You know,
I just don't want telling us what to do. Yeah,
I mean everybody of even younger than our we all
used to build a house by getting at Liverpool just
to close it in and we go inside. We'd be
building it for the next two or three years inside.
You know. When I've built my first house, our dining
(05:48):
table was a halve sheet apply on two sawhorses. Now
these days people say, oh, we can't, we haven't got
We've got a house and crisis. You've got to get
a whole thing's got to have a code of compliance
that came out of some idiotic Wellington bloody government department.
And people can't go and finish the damn things. And
that's why they can't afford it, because I have to
(06:08):
have the whole thing done.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I sometimes wonder what proportion of a house build goes
into just compliance costs, and it must be huge, But
surely local government can have a huge impact on reducing that.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Well, this particular Loggan wants to. But then we run
under stupid rules and so a lot less out in Wellington,
and I mean the CBD. I'd like to have a
lot more people living in the CBD. I live in.
I'm a city dweller. I'm the only city dweller on
the council. Actually, the rest of them are all suburban dwellers.
(06:43):
And oddly enough, due to the stupid way that the
Aukan Council is set up in the first place, the
person who represents the city, which is the most densely
populated part of New Zealand, there's an old communist who
lives on bloody Wahiki, for goodness sake, and that just
doesn't make sense at all, And so We've got a
lot of empty office buildings in the city there that
(07:05):
could be converted into apartner But the rules that are
well intentioned idiotic rules with rules about making earthquake prone
because they are older buildings. The last earthquake we had here,
according to geologists, was one hundred and twenty thousand years ago,
so it's pretty stupid worrying about that. And then you're
going to convert an office building into apartments, there will
(07:29):
be one fifth of the number of people living in
the building is there now as an office And yet
we seem to have more fire comments Why is that?
I don't know. No I can explain. There's just no
common sense. There's rules not common sense, and that's one
of the things I want to see change now.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You say it's sort of Wellington problems and Auckland has
always suffered I think from that. But do you think
it's just a product of when you get bureaucrats together,
or do you think it might be a little bit
of the rest of the country ganging up against the
big brother up and it's.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
A bureaucrat thing, because I know if you go up
and pik to the people in the far and author
on the why out of they're pissed off of the
rules as well.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Hmm okay, so what can you do about it? I mean,
I know that welland Auckland getting together into a super
city was meant to sort of give it a bit
more muscle to stand up against Wellington. Is that working well?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It is now? I don't go to Wellington. They come
and see me, and they're finding me quite difficult compared
because in the past we've had former MPs who actually
as mess and they actually believe in that rubbish and
so they're quite compliant and I'm not so that I'm
more difficult for them, And I've got no intention to
(08:45):
mean less difficult for them if it's in favor of
auk and I'm neither not implient and more difficult.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
This is challenging my idea that I have about your mayor.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Well.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I mean, I'm a political in terms of one party
versus the other, but my party is fixing Auckland. You know,
anything I can need to make Auckland better is what
I want out of this. It doesn't worry me whether
they're labor or national or whatever.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Do you think if Auckland can win a fear of
these battles and things that's going to be good for
the rest of the country.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Too, pretty much. I understand the rest of the country,
you know. I'm at heart the country boy, really, and
I have properties in a lot of minor towns around
New Zealand as well, you know, and I've got probably
some from Hawk's Bay to Kai Tai and commercial only.
(09:36):
I don't have residential properties, having the ones I live in,
and so I get what it's like for that, you know.
I have been a kiwi for it graa and as
well as in addition to my engineering and construction businesses,
so I understand what they're trying to do and how
the country pays us bills, and so I want to
do things that are good for Auckland, but not at
(09:57):
the expense of the rest of New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Now you mentioned that, you know, you've had a lot
of time up in the far North, and I get
the fact that you get the idea that a fear
bit of your lingers up there north of the brent Dorwins,
perhaps even north of the Mangamookers. And you have a
place in MANGEROUI don't you.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah, I've always had a batch and ponds and me
and a match up North House up North so ah,
I see them both. You know, there's I don't think
there's any reason why you can't have a love for
town and country. I mean, there's walking Churist to Harbor
Eden Park, played on Eden Park. It's sort of it
(10:37):
becomes one of the things that's an important part of
your life. I never played on Eden Park at the
level of that I aspired to. But you know, and
so and then itself is quite good because I'm the
only council that's done that, and I'm quite proud of that.
(10:57):
But and so, uh yeah, you can you can love
both things.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yep, yep. Now, if you've just joined us, my guest
tonight is the mayor of or cland Wayne Brown, and
my producer is waving his fingers at me. Now that
could be a rude gesture. It could be just say
wind up the first half, John, So we'll come back
and talk to Wayne Brown a bit more after this break.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on news
talks that.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Be Welcome back to real life. I'm John Cown and
I'm talking with the Mayor of Auckland, Wayne Brown and Wayne,
you've picked that bit of music. What are we listening
to there?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
We're listening to The Eagle, also a great guitar playing
band and long rate of Eden's got a bit of
everything on it, and it's got a story in it.
It's a long piece of music that you don't hear
on the radio because it's a long piece of music.
But sometimes the radio should play long pieces of music.
And I kind of segues in an evact that amongst
(11:57):
the other odd things I do other than being the
mayor and business, my interests are tennis and surfing. And
one of the things I've suffered a bit since being
in the Mirrors, I haven't been playing with my band
as much as we used to before I was the
mayor because the Mirror and he's gotten a road all that.
But I was I was taken white Boy on the
(12:19):
band called Hanging Stones, and we're playing pubs and I
love playing in pubs, and.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I I can't see why being mayor would stop you
doing that. I think people were just I think people
just love to roll up and watch the mirror of
our biggest city playing in a in a band in
a pub and what is it you play?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I play the banjo just well enough not to be
thrown out of the band. Kidding yourself, if you think
of my bloody I'm going to be able to pick
something like dueling Banjo's you know. Yeah, I'm just good
enough not to survive the cut.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Can you do? Can you do? Can you do the
Beverly Hillbillies?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
The Oh well, I can strum away. We've got two
hundred songs on our list. You know, we do anything
from Elvis to Coldplay, and we all sing together or
are separately at times.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
You know, you sing as well.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Oh yeah, yeah. The last time we got any coverage
at a Mirror celebration party when we seeing one of
our popular ones, Hit the Road Jack, which I sing
and we're sing Hit the Road goth and someone in
advertently took a movie of it and loaded up on.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
You say that you're the only Pakihar in this group,
and I noticed that you were At one stage you
were on the board of was it Murray Television?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah? I was on that more from an engineer side
of it than the cultural side of it. Okay, I
know about the technology, but of the delivery of broadcast
rather than the actual content.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Right, But nevertheless, that probably would have put you in
this in a Maori space that possibly a lot of
Parky I don't have the privilege of being in. How
do you find and Auckland itself is such a multicultural
place these days that must be an must make an
interesting part of your role.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Well, the far and also not multicultures. It's two culturals.
And you know, I've spent a lot of my life
in the Far North and my customers and Mary and Polks,
I'll drinking in the public. It's absolutely fifty to fifty
half by start of Maria there in half the party
are You don't notice, It's just so it just becomes
part of your life. And so you come down here
(14:52):
in the city and the Liberals have discovered married and
recently and bound scrape to It's just just a if
you're a country boy, that's what you live with and
you you haven't suddenly had to learn to do a me.
It's just what you've all your working life, you know.
And I'm very comfortable and I have a very good
(15:13):
relationship with a wonderful ee down here in terrific and
so I just fit a hand in the globally because
they can see that I'm comfortable there. I'm not suddenly
trying to be molding or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Now you trained as an engineer. Now I've got quite
a few engineer mates, and I am absolutely convinced their
brains work differently. They and just said that they'll see
a problem and they'll go through a logic the analysis
and see a problem. I see a solution to it.
Do you do?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
You?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Reckon? You've got an engineer's brain still.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Now your friends are exactly typical engineers, and I'm like
that too. I mean, I'm literal and analytical, and you
can't understand why other people are emotional about things when
you can see there as a solution there in front
of you. And so I try and get through the council.
Everybody in the staff in particular, are now my main
(16:09):
phrases is first of all, to explain to themselves and
then to other people what is the problem you're trying
to fix, and then can you do it better, cheaper
and faster? And if you stick with those things, it's
amazing how the council comes around. And that's probably why
we've ended up with quite a good LTP and probably
amongst the lowest rate increases that any council will have
this year from the biggest one, which is probably in
(16:30):
the worst position. When Iri, it's just what's the problem,
how do you do it? How do you fix it?
And it's kind of you lack empathy compared to other people,
but you get things done. And I found that people
actually have had years and years of empathy and nothing happening.
We had several years of being kind, but that didn't
do very good. And now people actually quite like someone
(16:54):
who comes in and says, okay, right, that's the problem.
Sorry I failed to cry and weave about it, but
here's a solution, and we've fixed it, and that seems
to go down quite well. Now.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
You mentioned a couple of things there that perhaps people have,
you know, pops stacks at you about you mentioned things
like empathy and sympathy, and I'm not perhaps that's.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
You know, like when they had that flood, which I
was absolutely did cause the rain that night and apologized
everybody for that. But this year, for instance, that we've
had wonderful whether but no one's thank you for the
nice sunny days. It's been got weird. So I didn't
I just got fixing. I was out there fixing things
and seeing what was happening. But I wasn't. Actually I
(17:38):
don't do sort of weeping and carrying on quite as
much as some people do.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Okay, now, so you are aware, probably have a few
shells that have burst over your head from time to time.
You give every impression that you're pretty armor plated when
it comes to criticism, but it must be stressful. Do
you do you find that you that there are things
that help your cope with stress, you have mates around you,
or do you go home and and.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Again going surfing, you know, clear as you as your
brain as well, you know, and so and I'll keep
that in there. But also as an engineer, you're look
at it and you think, well a lot of that
stuff was this bullshit and it'll go, you know, and
the media eventually come around, you know, they suddenly realize
that maybe the public actually quite like things fixed. And
(18:29):
we we had, we've had, we've had too much sympathy. Really,
I'm not lacking it completely, but I think that I
was elected to fix autor not a week for it?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Hm hmm. Okay, And so uh, you yourself, you can
you handle it? Well? Do you have do you go
out of your way to protect Tony and the family
from the criticism and tally earlier politics.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Well, Tony is very good at keeping out of the
way that anyhow, so.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Does she worried for you?
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Ah, nobody enjoyed that. That that onslaught of ill informed
nonsense from the media a year ago, but the year on.
I think that my credibility is a lot higher than
the media's credibility to be honest. And quite a lot
of them have turned around and realized that, well, maybe
we maybe he's doing some quite good stuff there, and
(19:24):
maybe we've got that. They're never going to admit they
get it wrong, but they are actually turned you know,
some of them have actually quite different relationship. And the
other thing was is that a lot of elected officials
and politicians the media is kind of like a drug
to them. They feel that they have to have it,
and I don't see it that way. It's just something
(19:44):
that's there, you know, It's another another thing you deal with,
but don't I don't seek media attention. In fact, they
got quite pistoff at me at the start because I've
turned down a lot of them. But things I was
busy trying to understand what was it what the problems
in here with it affects rather than gratifying them.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Okay, I can understand how you'd be drawn towards busin
this and engineering and things like this. What drew you
into public service, drew you into governance roles and service
on boards and things? What was it? And you remember
that forming in your head as being yeah, I'd like
to get involved in being involved in DHBs or vector
(20:25):
or things like that.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Sort of semi accidental in a way. The first one
was the Northern District Health Board and I hadn't been
paying much attention to all that stuff there. And there
was jake called Peter Trout, who you might remember, who
was a bit of a genius, and he was the
first guy fixed He sort of turned telecom into something
(20:50):
that really functioned, and the government asked him to sit
out and form a whole lot of district health boards
and put some sort of business people on it. And
as usual, Northen was the last place they get to,
and he got there and he was a bit fed
up with professional directors who are accountants or lawyers. And
we've still got that mistake in New Zealand of thinking
(21:11):
that they other people you should have organizing things. We
don't seem to learn that countries that go head like
China and Singapore actually have engineers in charts. But he
got up there and he said, I'm fed up with
these people. Does anyone know anyone who's doing something or other?
At the time, I was building a multiplex cinema in
middle of Wellington and they said I was a guy
from up north there. He's building a big building in Wellington.
(21:31):
You know. You want to talk to him, and he
you know, and he ran me oup and I went
and saw him and said, you know. And he had
divided the district health boards into three categories. There was
seagulls that could fly and there's not many of those,
and there was a few perkiers. With a bit of
help we get off the ground. And there was four
(21:52):
Dodos and Northon was a Dodo. And he said, oh, well,
le'd buget. I'll take a risk on this guy. And
you said you want to be a director and I
said no, but I'll be the chair And he thought
a risk them. And anyhow, the first one that ever
deliver all of it what it had to do, deliver
and do it within budget was norsely and so that
(22:15):
data was actually the first seagull and that and there's
nothing like doing something and know and expects to suddenly
become popular. And then since then when the power went off,
the one time walking has been truly internationally famous, wasn't
the America's couple was when they shut the power for
six weeks and I was brought and they thought, gee,
that guy up there, you know, And I was brought
in to fix the power. And again you walk in
(22:38):
the end there's a room full of people who didn't
know why the power was off, but none of our engineers,
and so I just fixed it. And then you keep
fixing things and people think he's he's a bit grumpy,
but he does fix things.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Wayne, It's been great talking a few times up but
so thank you for fitting us into your schedule. And
it just time for you to introduce your final pick
of music.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Well, I like listening to Lisa Ekdale. It's it's a
she's not particularly well known, but I saw there something
out of the thing. There's there's lots of lots of
people that people listen to on Spotify that you would
never know who they were. They just kind of crop
up and I think I like the way she sinks,
and so I like listening to her when I'm when
I'm spotifying and not thinking about things.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Wayne, thanks for talking to us, and I really hope
you do pull out your benjo and PEPs and a
council meeting. I think that would liven things up a
little bit. Maybe they don't need to be any more lively,
but who knows what it attact would have.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Wayne.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Thanks so much and wishing you in Auckland all the best.
This is real life. I'm John Cown, looking forward to
being back with you again next week.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
For more from News Talks' b listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real life with John Cowen
on News Talks ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Gooday, welcome to real life and welcome to my guest,
Utan's Mayor Wayne Brown. Welcome, Wayne, Hi John, you're Tato now.
I remember when I started on the radio, the advice
I was given was don't mention Auckland. The rest of
the country doesn't want to hear about Auckland. But heck,
you're the mayor of the place, so tell me the
(00:44):
best things about Auckland.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, I might be the mayor of the place, but
I am a town and country boy. You know. I've
lived a lot of my time in Orkland, a lot
of my time in the Far North as well, and
I still share houses in both. So I can see
the importance of linking the whole country rather than and
I don't like the sort of rabid being pro or
anti Auckland. Organ's got his place in the rest of
(01:08):
the country has got as plays. The rest of the
country pays the bills for Auckland in some way, so
I think I'm grateful for the rest of the country.
But Orckland itself is our only large city and Orkland
Council it's completely different from our other council because it's
a regional council. It's a regional government. Really, what's best
about Orkland. I'm looking out the window and it's the
(01:30):
wide amount of harbor and the Hrrickee Gulf, no question.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And you've got a boat and you like to get
out on it occasionally.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yes, I've got a boat and I've got a clicking
of surfboards do so. I spent as much time in
the water as I can right now.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
You grew up in a very different Auckland. I can
remember a huge parade sixty years ago this month when
we celebrated reaching half a million in our population. We're
all seeing the song We're a great big city.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I don't know if you remember that at all, but
it's three times that size now. Has Auckland scaled well?
Has it has it growing well?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Do you think it? Like a lot of things. It's
the curate's egg. It's good in parts, you know, some
of what's been done really well. In other of its
have been a bit of a catastrophe. It's so easy
to look back and say, you know, did we expect
to be nearly two million people in my life? Done?
Probably not. I don't know where the New Zealand scale
(02:33):
particularly cleverly either, having a thirty of people in one city.
I don't think that bright. Really, we have got a
third about people and we and we've got government and
Willington seem to think we should have more. I'm not
absolutely mad about that. You know, there's not only is
it back when when we were kids what we expected
(02:54):
was a lot less too. I mean, we had a
group of people yesterday and coming seeing that they wanted
more housing. But I grew up in a house that
just had one toilve and one bathroom and no insulation,
and we lived, you know, And now people expect to
have tiles on the walls and two bathrooms, even in
houses that the government's paying for. I mean, you know,
(03:17):
we build garages for people. When we used to leave
the cars outside and we're kids, and the cracked cars
and so, I mean my dad at four to eight
good hard to get and we used to go on
holidays up north and he'd get quite it was a
long day to get to they's beach, you know, in
(03:39):
the morning, wait for hours to get on the ferry
to go across the Devonport and then mid head born
and Dad to get really quite agitated about Kywalker because
he could think of the Brindowans coming. And we never
ever got over the Brindurwans without the car boiling over
off of the road, and my job was going to
(04:00):
get a little sticktion. They'd get out to come to
ther Met and my daddould boiler therm Met for a
cup of tea while the car unboiled, so we drag it.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
A different world and I bet it had one of
those windscreen wipers that if you're going uphill in the rain,
the windscreen wipers would stop because they're vacuum powered. It
was a different, different world back then. But with Auckland
you've mentioned some bits are done well, some bits are catastrophes.
You describe that. But what would you like to see
(04:33):
changed about Auckland? What things I know, and some of
them might not be changeable by a mayor even But
what would you like to see different?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Well, there are some things and I'm changing them already.
I mean, I'll focus on the harbor to extend because
it's the one thing that makes Auckland a great city
compared to just another city, and that I've been hassling
the port to finally make some money and shrink its
size so that people I want it by the end
(05:01):
of the year be able to go and have a
swim down there in the harbor. And that's something I've
always wanted to do. In a pool, a simple cheap
floating pool, we can do a lot of things without
spending a lot of money. We've lost the ability to
actually do things cheaply, and we've that comes from unfortunately
(05:25):
too much central government influence on Auckland. I want to
see a hell of out less Wellington in Auckland. You know,
I just don't want telling us what to do. Yeah,
I mean everybody of even younger than our we all
used to build a house by getting at Liverpool just
to close it in and we go inside. We'd be
building it for the next two or three years inside.
You know. When I've built my first house, our dining
(05:48):
table was a halve sheet apply on two sawhorses. Now
these days people say, oh, we can't, we haven't got
We've got a house and crisis. You've got to get
a whole thing's got to have a code of compliance
that came out of some idiotic Wellington bloody government department.
And people can't go and finish the damn things. And
that's why they can't afford it, because I have to
(06:08):
have the whole thing done.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I sometimes wonder what proportion of a house build goes
into just compliance costs, and it must be huge, But
surely local government can have a huge impact on reducing that.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Well, this particular Loggan wants to. But then we run
under stupid rules and so a lot less out in Wellington,
and I mean the CBD. I'd like to have a
lot more people living in the CBD. I live in.
I'm a city dweller. I'm the only city dweller on
the council. Actually, the rest of them are all suburban dwellers.
(06:43):
And oddly enough, due to the stupid way that the
Aukan Council is set up in the first place, the
person who represents the city, which is the most densely
populated part of New Zealand, there's an old communist who
lives on bloody Wahiki, for goodness sake, and that just
doesn't make sense at all, And so We've got a
lot of empty office buildings in the city there that
(07:05):
could be converted into apartner But the rules that are
well intentioned idiotic rules with rules about making earthquake prone
because they are older buildings. The last earthquake we had here,
according to geologists, was one hundred and twenty thousand years ago,
so it's pretty stupid worrying about that. And then you're
going to convert an office building into apartments, there will
(07:29):
be one fifth of the number of people living in
the building is there now as an office And yet
we seem to have more fire comments Why is that?
I don't know. No I can explain. There's just no
common sense. There's rules not common sense, and that's one
of the things I want to see change now.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You say it's sort of Wellington problems and Auckland has
always suffered I think from that. But do you think
it's just a product of when you get bureaucrats together,
or do you think it might be a little bit
of the rest of the country ganging up against the
big brother up and it's.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
A bureaucrat thing, because I know if you go up
and pik to the people in the far and author
on the why out of they're pissed off of the
rules as well.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Hmm okay, so what can you do about it? I mean,
I know that welland Auckland getting together into a super
city was meant to sort of give it a bit
more muscle to stand up against Wellington. Is that working well?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It is now? I don't go to Wellington. They come
and see me, and they're finding me quite difficult compared
because in the past we've had former MPs who actually
as mess and they actually believe in that rubbish and
so they're quite compliant and I'm not so that I'm
more difficult for them, And I've got no intention to
(08:45):
mean less difficult for them if it's in favor of
auk and I'm neither not implient and more difficult.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
This is challenging my idea that I have about your mayor.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Well.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I mean, I'm a political in terms of one party
versus the other, but my party is fixing Auckland. You know,
anything I can need to make Auckland better is what
I want out of this. It doesn't worry me whether
they're labor or national or whatever.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Do you think if Auckland can win a fear of
these battles and things that's going to be good for
the rest of the country.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Too, pretty much. I understand the rest of the country,
you know. I'm at heart the country boy, really, and
I have properties in a lot of minor towns around
New Zealand as well, you know, and I've got probably
some from Hawk's Bay to Kai Tai and commercial only.
(09:36):
I don't have residential properties, having the ones I live in,
and so I get what it's like for that, you know.
I have been a kiwi for it graa and as
well as in addition to my engineering and construction businesses,
so I understand what they're trying to do and how
the country pays us bills, and so I want to
do things that are good for Auckland, but not at
(09:57):
the expense of the rest of New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Now you mentioned that, you know, you've had a lot
of time up in the far North, and I get
the fact that you get the idea that a fear
bit of your lingers up there north of the brent Dorwins,
perhaps even north of the Mangamookers. And you have a
place in MANGEROUI don't you.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah, I've always had a batch and ponds and me
and a match up North House up North so ah,
I see them both. You know, there's I don't think
there's any reason why you can't have a love for
town and country. I mean, there's walking Churist to Harbor
Eden Park, played on Eden Park. It's sort of it
(10:37):
becomes one of the things that's an important part of
your life. I never played on Eden Park at the
level of that I aspired to. But you know, and
so and then itself is quite good because I'm the
only council that's done that, and I'm quite proud of that.
(10:57):
But and so, uh yeah, you can you can love
both things.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yep, yep. Now, if you've just joined us, my guest
tonight is the mayor of or cland Wayne Brown, and
my producer is waving his fingers at me. Now that
could be a rude gesture. It could be just say
wind up the first half, John, So we'll come back
and talk to Wayne Brown a bit more after this break.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on news
talks that.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Be Welcome back to real life. I'm John Cown and
I'm talking with the Mayor of Auckland, Wayne Brown and Wayne,
you've picked that bit of music. What are we listening
to there?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
We're listening to The Eagle, also a great guitar playing
band and long rate of Eden's got a bit of
everything on it, and it's got a story in it.
It's a long piece of music that you don't hear
on the radio because it's a long piece of music.
But sometimes the radio should play long pieces of music.
And I kind of segues in an evact that amongst
(11:57):
the other odd things I do other than being the
mayor and business, my interests are tennis and surfing. And
one of the things I've suffered a bit since being
in the Mirrors, I haven't been playing with my band
as much as we used to before I was the
mayor because the Mirror and he's gotten a road all that.
But I was I was taken white Boy on the
(12:19):
band called Hanging Stones, and we're playing pubs and I
love playing in pubs, and.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I I can't see why being mayor would stop you
doing that. I think people were just I think people
just love to roll up and watch the mirror of
our biggest city playing in a in a band in
a pub and what is it you play?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I play the banjo just well enough not to be
thrown out of the band. Kidding yourself, if you think
of my bloody I'm going to be able to pick
something like dueling Banjo's you know. Yeah, I'm just good
enough not to survive the cut.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Can you do? Can you do? Can you do the
Beverly Hillbillies?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
The Oh well, I can strum away. We've got two
hundred songs on our list. You know, we do anything
from Elvis to Coldplay, and we all sing together or
are separately at times.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
You know, you sing as well.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Oh yeah, yeah. The last time we got any coverage
at a Mirror celebration party when we seeing one of
our popular ones, Hit the Road Jack, which I sing
and we're sing Hit the Road goth and someone in
advertently took a movie of it and loaded up on.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
You say that you're the only Pakihar in this group,
and I noticed that you were At one stage you
were on the board of was it Murray Television?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah? I was on that more from an engineer side
of it than the cultural side of it. Okay, I
know about the technology, but of the delivery of broadcast
rather than the actual content.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Right, But nevertheless, that probably would have put you in
this in a Maori space that possibly a lot of
Parky I don't have the privilege of being in. How
do you find and Auckland itself is such a multicultural
place these days that must be an must make an
interesting part of your role.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Well, the far and also not multicultures. It's two culturals.
And you know, I've spent a lot of my life
in the Far North and my customers and Mary and Polks,
I'll drinking in the public. It's absolutely fifty to fifty
half by start of Maria there in half the party
are You don't notice, It's just so it just becomes
part of your life. And so you come down here
(14:52):
in the city and the Liberals have discovered married and
recently and bound scrape to It's just just a if
you're a country boy, that's what you live with and
you you haven't suddenly had to learn to do a me.
It's just what you've all your working life, you know.
And I'm very comfortable and I have a very good
(15:13):
relationship with a wonderful ee down here in terrific and
so I just fit a hand in the globally because
they can see that I'm comfortable there. I'm not suddenly
trying to be molding or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Now you trained as an engineer. Now I've got quite
a few engineer mates, and I am absolutely convinced their
brains work differently. They and just said that they'll see
a problem and they'll go through a logic the analysis
and see a problem. I see a solution to it.
Do you do?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
You?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Reckon? You've got an engineer's brain still.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Now your friends are exactly typical engineers, and I'm like
that too. I mean, I'm literal and analytical, and you
can't understand why other people are emotional about things when
you can see there as a solution there in front
of you. And so I try and get through the council.
Everybody in the staff in particular, are now my main
(16:09):
phrases is first of all, to explain to themselves and
then to other people what is the problem you're trying
to fix, and then can you do it better, cheaper
and faster? And if you stick with those things, it's
amazing how the council comes around. And that's probably why
we've ended up with quite a good LTP and probably
amongst the lowest rate increases that any council will have
this year from the biggest one, which is probably in
(16:30):
the worst position. When Iri, it's just what's the problem,
how do you do it? How do you fix it?
And it's kind of you lack empathy compared to other people,
but you get things done. And I found that people
actually have had years and years of empathy and nothing happening.
We had several years of being kind, but that didn't
do very good. And now people actually quite like someone
(16:54):
who comes in and says, okay, right, that's the problem.
Sorry I failed to cry and weave about it, but
here's a solution, and we've fixed it, and that seems
to go down quite well. Now.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
You mentioned a couple of things there that perhaps people have,
you know, pops stacks at you about you mentioned things
like empathy and sympathy, and I'm not perhaps that's.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
You know, like when they had that flood, which I
was absolutely did cause the rain that night and apologized
everybody for that. But this year, for instance, that we've
had wonderful whether but no one's thank you for the
nice sunny days. It's been got weird. So I didn't
I just got fixing. I was out there fixing things
and seeing what was happening. But I wasn't. Actually I
(17:38):
don't do sort of weeping and carrying on quite as
much as some people do.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Okay, now, so you are aware, probably have a few
shells that have burst over your head from time to time.
You give every impression that you're pretty armor plated when
it comes to criticism, but it must be stressful. Do
you do you find that you that there are things
that help your cope with stress, you have mates around you,
or do you go home and and.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Again going surfing, you know, clear as you as your
brain as well, you know, and so and I'll keep
that in there. But also as an engineer, you're look
at it and you think, well a lot of that
stuff was this bullshit and it'll go, you know, and
the media eventually come around, you know, they suddenly realize
that maybe the public actually quite like things fixed. And
(18:29):
we we had, we've had, we've had too much sympathy. Really,
I'm not lacking it completely, but I think that I
was elected to fix autor not a week for it?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Hm hmm. Okay, And so uh, you yourself, you can
you handle it? Well? Do you have do you go
out of your way to protect Tony and the family
from the criticism and tally earlier politics.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Well, Tony is very good at keeping out of the
way that anyhow, so.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Does she worried for you?
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Ah, nobody enjoyed that. That that onslaught of ill informed
nonsense from the media a year ago, but the year on.
I think that my credibility is a lot higher than
the media's credibility to be honest. And quite a lot
of them have turned around and realized that, well, maybe
we maybe he's doing some quite good stuff there, and
(19:24):
maybe we've got that. They're never going to admit they
get it wrong, but they are actually turned you know,
some of them have actually quite different relationship. And the
other thing was is that a lot of elected officials
and politicians the media is kind of like a drug
to them. They feel that they have to have it,
and I don't see it that way. It's just something
(19:44):
that's there, you know, It's another another thing you deal with,
but don't I don't seek media attention. In fact, they
got quite pistoff at me at the start because I've
turned down a lot of them. But things I was
busy trying to understand what was it what the problems
in here with it affects rather than gratifying them.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Okay, I can understand how you'd be drawn towards busin
this and engineering and things like this. What drew you
into public service, drew you into governance roles and service
on boards and things? What was it? And you remember
that forming in your head as being yeah, I'd like
to get involved in being involved in DHBs or vector
(20:25):
or things like that.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Sort of semi accidental in a way. The first one
was the Northern District Health Board and I hadn't been
paying much attention to all that stuff there. And there
was jake called Peter Trout, who you might remember, who
was a bit of a genius, and he was the
first guy fixed He sort of turned telecom into something
(20:50):
that really functioned, and the government asked him to sit
out and form a whole lot of district health boards
and put some sort of business people on it. And
as usual, Northen was the last place they get to,
and he got there and he was a bit fed
up with professional directors who are accountants or lawyers. And
we've still got that mistake in New Zealand of thinking
(21:11):
that they other people you should have organizing things. We
don't seem to learn that countries that go head like
China and Singapore actually have engineers in charts. But he
got up there and he said, I'm fed up with
these people. Does anyone know anyone who's doing something or other?
At the time, I was building a multiplex cinema in
middle of Wellington and they said I was a guy
from up north there. He's building a big building in Wellington.
(21:31):
You know. You want to talk to him, and he
you know, and he ran me oup and I went
and saw him and said, you know. And he had
divided the district health boards into three categories. There was
seagulls that could fly and there's not many of those,
and there was a few perkiers. With a bit of
help we get off the ground. And there was four
(21:52):
Dodos and Northon was a Dodo. And he said, oh, well,
le'd buget. I'll take a risk on this guy. And
you said you want to be a director and I
said no, but I'll be the chair And he thought
a risk them. And anyhow, the first one that ever
deliver all of it what it had to do, deliver
and do it within budget was norsely and so that
(22:15):
data was actually the first seagull and that and there's
nothing like doing something and know and expects to suddenly
become popular. And then since then when the power went off,
the one time walking has been truly internationally famous, wasn't
the America's couple was when they shut the power for
six weeks and I was brought and they thought, gee,
that guy up there, you know, And I was brought
in to fix the power. And again you walk in
(22:38):
the end there's a room full of people who didn't
know why the power was off, but none of our engineers,
and so I just fixed it. And then you keep
fixing things and people think he's he's a bit grumpy,
but he does fix things.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Wayne, It's been great talking a few times up but
so thank you for fitting us into your schedule. And
it just time for you to introduce your final pick
of music.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Well, I like listening to Lisa Ekdale. It's it's a
she's not particularly well known, but I saw there something
out of the thing. There's there's lots of lots of
people that people listen to on Spotify that you would
never know who they were. They just kind of crop
up and I think I like the way she sinks,
and so I like listening to her when I'm when
I'm spotifying and not thinking about things.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Wayne, thanks for talking to us, and I really hope
you do pull out your benjo and PEPs and a
council meeting. I think that would liven things up a
little bit. Maybe they don't need to be any more lively,
but who knows what it attact would have.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Wayne.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Thanks so much and wishing you in Auckland all the best.
This is real life. I'm John Cown, looking forward to
being back with you again next week.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
For more from News Talks' b listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
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