February 9, 2025 • 40 mins
New data from Centrix reveals that the number of homeowners behind on their mortgage increased by 1,100 in December alone.
With the interest rates dropping significantly recently, why is it that homeowners are falling behind?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
It'd be.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
In the summer time when the well, who is hot?
You can stretch right up, ben versus guy. When the
weather's fine. You got women, you got women on your mind,
have a drink, cabageove, go out and see what you get.
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Fine, if that is rich, take her out of a meal.
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If not is part just do what you fail.
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Speed alone and lady you can die and or rejoin.
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It's ready five.
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we're not mean. We love everybody, but we do as
we please.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
And welcome back to the service of the Weekend Collective
on Tion Beverage. And this is smart Money. By the way,
if you've missed any of our previous house you want
to catch up on them, to go to the News
Talk c B website or to iHeartRadio and look for
the podcast for the Weekend Collective. As I mentioned right now,
it is time for smart Money. Want your calls on
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty in text on nine
to nine to two. We're going to have a chat
(01:14):
about I guess, broadly speaking, managing your indebtedness, but how
much debt you should take on? For instance, how much
should you spend on a house versus how much the
bank is willing to lend you. Because new data from
Centris has revealed that the number of homeowners who are
behind on their mortgaged and mortgage sorry increased by eleven
hundred people in December alone. So with interest rates dropping significantly,
(01:41):
many would have thought things would be a little bit
easier financially. So what has happened and how are people
coping with that? And what is the best way to
manage that debt? And I mean, how desperately should you
also just make sure that you don't get into debt?
And how do you see about managing your debt so
you don't get into trouble with things like your mortgage,
which is the last thing you would want anyone to
be stressed about, because the stress around being behind on
(02:03):
your mortgage payments just be absolutely horrendous. Anyway, joining us
to talk about that is the financial author of how
many books I think we've lost count But there's another one?
Is it coming out soon? It's Martin Hall is goody
Martin how are you?
Speaker 6 (02:16):
Yeah, yeah, hi, hi there, Yes it is. It's coming
out in March.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
This is number seventeen or eighteen.
Speaker 6 (02:23):
No, it's twenty four.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
Oh, twenty four books.
Speaker 6 (02:27):
Yeah, I'm so embarrassed to say the number. But it's
over a long period of time. You know. I wrote
my first one in nineteen eighty seven, so you know,
it's not like I've just rustled them up in the
last couple of weeks or some point.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
I guess, because there must be themes that do recur
in the books. But are there or do you manage
to write completely about something that you've never written about before.
Speaker 6 (02:50):
I'd call it crossover? Yeah, you know, so if I
write about investment, I have to write a little bit
about property investment. And I've already wrested on a wholebok
on property investment. Very outdated.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Now.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
I had a look at the other day and I
was talking about houses, you know, good houses that you
could buy for two hundred thousand, that sort of stuff,
because it was done well, it was done back in
ninety war, I think of ninety five or something. So
it's you know, it whatard embarrass me to see it
in a bookshop now. But you know, there's always a
bit of crossover, but it's certainly themed quite separately, and
(03:29):
they're about the big picture, if you like. Is quite
a different topic from anything else I've done. Yeah. Has
it got a title, Yeah, A Retirement Ready. So it's
a book about it's quite biographical. I think I've probably
said this to you before, but I had a couple
(03:51):
of bad years in my life, ended up moving from
Queenstownd to christ Church. And when you have a big
change in your life, and I certainly have a big change,
I sat down and figured out what part of my
finances need to change, and there are probably six or
seven major areas. So I wound up the family trust,
(04:16):
I did a new will, I handed my investments over
to somebody to manage for me after forty five years
of doing it. So a bunch of stuff like that.
So the book basically relates those things, because although I
don't intend to retire, I know very well that I
could be retired. I could find myself retired for some
(04:38):
reason or other.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
Well, of course, for many people, the thought of retiring
is a long way away. When you've got these figures
about the number of people who are behind on their mortgages. Yes,
it does feel pretty grim, doesn't when you see those
sorts of headlines, isn't it?
Speaker 6 (04:54):
Yes? It does. And look, I don't think the recession
is over. It's hard to know. In New Zeallympics. We
are so behind and getting data. We don't get data monthly,
we get generally quarterly, and I think that's a real
fault New Zenald, So we we don't know how bad
(05:14):
things are they are. But I have a bunch of
small business owners who I talk to pretty regularly and
have done for years, in some cases forty odd years,
and some of them have always been extremely good bell
weathers for telling me what's going on in the in
the in the economy. And you know, if I say
it one of them, you know, how are sales at
(05:37):
the moment, and they say absolutely dreadful, then I know
that that's a pretty good sign that people are hurting
out there, and I think they are. And you know
that that figure showing mortgage differulties rising in December. December
is a high expense month, so you're trying to do
(05:58):
something for the kids, You're trying to have a reasoning
sort of Christmas, and the mortgage shouldn't go on the
back burner, but it very often does. And I suspect
January is going to be pretty tough for people, and
probably for another three months or so at least.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Yes, because the number of people who are behind on
their mortgages is over twenty two thousand now, so that
number increased by eleven ye yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't
think of any Oh. Look, look, there's all sorts of
stresses that we can have in life, but in terms
of financial stress, I've got to think that being behind
on your mortgage must be the the up there in
(06:36):
terms of the number one that you don't want to be,
And isn't it.
Speaker 6 (06:39):
No, yeah, that'll be right. But tim of you ever
lost your job, you know, don't come back, don't hume
back Monday. So an awful lot of public servants have
lost their jobs and there's a fair unemployment as rising.
Infrastrates are not really falling terribly quickly. So they are,
(07:00):
you know, the four point two five, but you know
we've got floating which is a seven percent and fixed
the fixed rate ones that six six and a half.
That that kind of thing. They're not they're still pretty
jolly expense of given the fact that inflation's gone down
to two point two last cause, which really takes me.
(07:22):
Sorry to interrupt and rave.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Varner, but no, this is what you stay silent.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
Me stay silent. Never the we measure inflation quarterly in
this country, so our inflation came out, I mean it
was the twenty second of January, and that was for
the last quarter, so that was October, November, December, so
we knew at the end of January what inflation had
(07:55):
been in October, because you know, like the US and
the UK and most big economies measuring this monthly, so
they've got their finger right on the pole. So Deserve
Bank is getting those those numbers and being i think
very reactive and and and dropping intst rates and quite
(08:21):
big chunks as they see. We don't know what inflation
was in January, and we won't know until April, yeh
of April.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
And of course, I mean just generally in terms of
the economy and the global outlook, there's still a wack
of uncertainty there out there at the moment, isn't there
Just it's just colossal there is.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
Yes, investors are doing well. Investors are doing quite well.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
What sort of investors you mean people are, yeah, you.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
Keep you saving investors and Shermark and investors and the likes.
But I think where there's probably a lot of hurts
in the small medium sized business area in New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
Because one of the things I think I was as
I was looking at the questions that we've sort of
lined up to talk out with her to do with
the debt and how much should you spend on a
house versus how much the bank is willing to lend you,
I was thinking that if I was sitting back and
listening to conversations around debt, and I guess through the
course of smart Money, I've we hear people talking about
(09:21):
how to use debt and how debt can be used
to build your wealth and things like that. And yet
when you are in the situation where debt's getting on
top of you, and now we're looking at the number
of people who are not managing their mortgages, I just
I think there's some of the question about there about
what is what attitude should we have towards debt and
(09:45):
to how approach it to approach it, because of course,
when you are borrowed in a property market which is
going gangbusters, then you've leveraged up the ying yang and
you might be terrified, but then you're laughing a few
years later because things are gone nutty. But if it
goes the other way as well, and you get bitten
by too much debt, it can really ruin your life,
(10:07):
can't it.
Speaker 6 (10:09):
Absolutely. You know, it's a double short sort. You know,
it cuts back to ways. It cuts on the upside.
It's great on the upside, as you say, but it's
really really bad on the downside. You know, we've been
talking about mortgages, and you know, I think everybody would
say it's fair enough, it's probably absolutely necessary, and the
vast vast majority of people the cases that they would
(10:30):
have to borrow to buy a house. But it's when
people are borrowing to buy consumer items like appliances and
so forth, and these things are always going to depreciation
value that you're starting to get in trouble. And the
trouble becomes much worse when you start to borrow for consumption,
(10:51):
and that you really are on the skids there. So
I always think of debt as you know, there's good debt,
and that's for things that go up in value will
tend to go up in value being houses, and.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
It's as that supports your ability, supports your ability to
generate income which covers more than the debt pays for them.
Speaker 6 (11:11):
You know. Yep. But when you go out and you
put the car or the new dishrusher on HV, I
think that's a hold.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Of the border because for some people, that is borrowing
to buy basic things that I would call them housing
infrastructure in a way you just talked about buying a
dryer or a bed or things like that. People borrow
a lot for that. It's quite consistent. I don't know why,
because I never really got particularly financial advice from my
(11:40):
family or anything, but I always thought instinctively that putting
something on lay by or paying something off gradually didn't
make sense, just because I thought, well, why would you
do that? Why wouldn't you just wait until you've got
the money and then buy. But not everyone has that
convenience of just going, well, I'll wait a little bit
longer till I've saved for that particular item, and that
becomes part of their way of life, doesn't it.
Speaker 6 (12:02):
Yeah, yep. And Lita, it's a lower income country, you know,
there are a lot of people, even in relatively good
time who are struggling. We don't pay high wages here.
We don't have industries that are able to afford to buy,
sorry to pay high wages. You know, it's fairly hard
(12:22):
scrabble being in Mirrle New Zealand, even at the very
best of times, let alone at times like now when
there are layoffs happening, when infistrates are sticky. On the upside,
it's pretty jully hard for people.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
What advice do you give to people who are in
a position of paying off debt how quickly they should
do it, because if it would love to hear your
approach on this as well, how hard do you strive
to pay off debt versus going Well, Okay, I could
pay my mortgage off a few years earlier, but I
also do want to actually enjoy life before I need
to retire, because it is it is an interesting balance
(13:00):
to strike, isn't it Like I could probably I'm we're
in the fortunate position that we've paid a lot of
our mortgage off, but if I really wanted to, I
could probably pay it off several years earlier. But the
hedonistic part of Tim Beveridge wants to have that wants
to go hiking in the in the Alps.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
Yeah, there's a there's a balance on that, isn't it.
But my general principle, if the debt is non tax deductible,
you know, so it's for the house you're going to
live in or for its an appliance, and it's not
for a business or to invest in property or something
like that, then I would be saying, pay off that
non deductible debt as fast as you possibly can get
(13:40):
that off your back, and then I think you can
start to relax. Now the bit of rolling of eyes
and so forth when I say this, but I always
think as an aim, people should try to have their
mortgage paid off by the time they're in their early
early to mid fifties, something like something like that. And
I think when that happens, you'd have with bloody good
(14:02):
celebration and maybe even spend you know, make the last
mortgage payment and then make the next fun that you've
got for a really good trip or something. I've really
looked forward forward.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
And the reason I raised that is because I recently
just for an exercise. It ties into a couple of
things You've talked about how the cost of borrowing is
still quite high, so we've got. I think that there's
this there's this idea that in New Zealand that oh,
look this house is only eight or nine hundred thousand
dollars or something, and people think, oh, that's that doesn't
(14:33):
sound that expensive. But then you work out what the
mortgage is on that and you go, hell, that's a
lot of money. But what it ties into is that
if you do decide to let that mortgage go for
another five years, that is actually worth a truckload of money,
isn't it? And the interest Whereas if you so, the
moral of the story I'm yes, I'm leaning to is
I should be lecturing myself to biting the bullet and
(14:56):
paying that mortgage off as fast as possible because it's
worth tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (15:04):
If I well a financial advisor, and I'm not from
I was your financial advisor, I'd be banning with table.
I'm saying, yes, get rid of the thing. Life can
be a whole lot different if you don't have that
monkey on your back.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
So we want to know your attitude to debt. This
is basically a simple question. We've got lots of questions
around this about how much you should spend on your
house versus how much the bank is willing to lend you.
But how if you are listening right now, how cautious
are you or careless if you like. And I don't
mean that in a judgmental way either, because we can
all form our own judgments on our attitude towards money.
(15:39):
But how cautious are you when it comes to debt?
Because while you might be borrowing for something which you
think is going to make you a fortune, if it
turns the other way, it can be a really nasty
You can find yourself in a bit of a pickle.
So do you try and pay off your mortgage as
fast as possible or do you sort of think, well,
you know what, I also want to be able to
(16:01):
enjoy life. But that ten thousand dollars holiday you might
or maybe even more if you're going overseas, how much
is that worth in the mortgage ultimately that you're going
to pay for that holiday because you didn't stick it
off your mortgage in the first place. I just want
to know that your attitude towards how urgently you address
paying off your debt eight hundred and eighty ten and
eighty text nine two nine two. You can email Tim
(16:24):
be it Newstalks said, be But you know what, this
is a talk back show, so let's get on the blower.
Twenty three past five. Welcome back to Smart Money. My
guest is financial author. He used to be a financial advisor,
but now he's a financial author. He dishes out of
his advice.
Speaker 6 (16:36):
Did I?
Speaker 5 (16:37):
I didn't. I hope I didn't describe his financial advisor earlier, Martin.
But anyway, we've moved on. It's Martin Hahawes and he's
got a new book coming out soon, by the way,
Retirement Ready, So keep an eye out for that when
it does actually hit the shops. I realized, actually the
way I framed my question, by the way, was around
our attitude to debt. But I think that the more
(16:57):
digestible question for people is we, in most of us
who've got a house or rent, we've got some sort
of debt, haven't we. What are the luxuries that you
often see taking priority? What are the luxuries in your
life that you give priority to because you still want
to live when in fact, if we listened to the
advice that Martin might give, if you're still a financial adviser,
(17:19):
there would be banging the table saying, just pay off
the mortgage. Martin. In your own life, you would have
had moments where you possibly could have paid more off
something I'm guessing, but you would have made a trade off.
What were your trade offs?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
For?
Speaker 6 (17:35):
My trade offs were generally lifestyle rather than buying stuff.
I mean I could have made a lot more money.
Have I been or christ Church rather than Queenstown, then
I would have had a much bigger career. I knew
it at the time, but I thought, well, I'm I'm
(17:56):
prepared to give up, to give up some income, to
give up building a business or anything like that, and
have a lifestyle full of mountaineering and skiing and well
generally messing around.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
That's exactly the issue I think many of us have.
And look, we live in a gorgeous country. We want
to make the use of it. But also New Zealanders
love overseas travel. I mean, you're the sentiments you've just
talked about the mountains and skiing and lifestyle and mountaineering.
I think you've been. Haven't you been mountaineering in France recently?
Speaker 6 (18:27):
Yes? I have? Yeah, yeah, well a year ago, oh,
a year ago.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Well, let's call it recently, because that's the same time
I heard our trip. But those are the questions, and
that is that the cynical way I would put it,
cynical way whatever, Just the way I would say, which
maybe set me up for people to immediately swap me
down as having a bad attitude, was I don't want
to be saving so hard for retirement that I can
(18:53):
look back and luxury and a life that I haven't lived.
Speaker 6 (18:56):
Yes, I think it does. It's really really well some time.
You know, it's a trade off, it's a balance, it's
what we're comfortable with. I don't think there's any rule
of thumb or anything like that. It's a trade off
between the present and the future. The present getting yourself
(19:18):
into a strong financial position, maybe having no death or
at least very little dere the future in terms of
savings and such like. So, I mean, you can you know,
I know people who have spent their berty paying off
their mortgage and getting themselves into a very strong position.
(19:39):
They can live the rest of their life mortgage free.
They've probably got a bit of income from other sources,
they can work part time. That kind of thing. They
pay a big price for that, and the price they
pay is lifestyle. Now I'm having a pretty good lifestyle
at the moment because although I work, you know, I'm
not working full time or anything like that. And so
(20:01):
I'm going to the likes of France or Italy this
year probably to go climb and to go rock climbing,
or to go mountain mountain, mountaineeric. But you know, I mean,
excuse me. I made it through to them. Some people
don't make it through through, you know, to their health,
and then they can no longer. I can still carry
(20:23):
on during mountaineering rock climbing on my seventies. A lot
of people wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Yeah, I think because I think that that's ultimately when
it comes to questions we can all relate to, whether
it comes to money and finances, is what trade off
are you prepared to make? And I mean, look, I've
been a musician for I was a freelance musician for
quite a few years, and that is a tough way, yes,
financially that there is a major sacrifice that comes. Until
(20:50):
I could have stayed practicing law, and who knows, but
I would have looked back and there's a certain element
that in my poverty. I do feel pretty good about
the choices I've made, because ultimately life is for living.
But it is it's a constant I don't know how
many people wrestle with this, and I would imagine everyone does,
doesn't it, Because you see people who seem to seamlessly
(21:11):
make a decision to, you know, really aggressively attack their
finances and get on top of it and things, and
it always feels like it's effortless for them. But when
you talk to them and go, oh, well, you know,
I wish I'd done X, Y and Z, and instead
we focused on paying off our debt. And it is.
It's a constant wrestling match with everyone, unless you win
the lotto. And even then people still blow the money.
Speaker 6 (21:34):
Don't they. They are very high proportional of them. It's
I think it's a very difficult thing. I don't think
that most people make a conscious decision. Although when they
realize they've made a decision, say to have the overseas trip,
instead of waking ten dollars of them more which were
twenty when they or twenty when they've made that decision,
(21:58):
they're very good at at justifying it, having already made it.
They've made the decision because that's what they want to do,
but then they come up with the reasons they do it,
and often around lifestyle is the thing. You know, I
said before, I think people should be aimble to pay
off their mortgage in the early to make fifties and
(22:19):
people will have all their lives and how do you
do that these days? And I'm well aware that young
people now have a lot more temptation put in their
way than we to. You know, overseas travel is as
easier for.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
The Instagram lifestyle.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
Yeah, exactly, yep. If you've got to create your lifestyle
on Facebook, just just so you've got to be doing
this these kinds of things. You've got to have these
kinds of things, whether it's electronics or what have you.
I'm not can't remember who it was who was talking
about the smashed avocado on toast. Yeah, yeah, and sort
(22:58):
of scoffing about it. I know people have the temptation,
but I think I think we've always got to try
and say, to what thing do I will I feel
the most value? Yeah, And for some people come up
with the idea of having no debt, it's so valuable
to them that they're prepared to go, prepared to foregos
(23:21):
things for other people. You know, they value the overseas truck,
they value the ski holiday or what have you.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
It's an interesting one because it almost lends us in
a money out. It's a philosophical question around, I think,
because yeah, they're not easy. They're not easy decisions to answer,
and I sometimes wonder whether each generation is influenced to
go the opposite way of the previous one. And you
will have spoken to plenty of people. In fact, often
(23:51):
you talk to a successful business person man or woman
about things and you'll say, how did you end up
deciding to do X, Y and Z? And they I've
heard it quite a few times, and they said, I
saw how my parentstruggled from payday to payday, and I
resolved I would never be like that. So their priority
was easily set at it's all about wealth accumulation, full stop.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
Yes. My parents used to tell us about the depression.
I was going to say, AGNs No, it just left
such a huge scar on them that my father particularly
kept saying, there will be another depression, there will be
another depression. You've got to make sure that you've got
yourself in a position that you can withstand that.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
Do you think there will be another depression? Martain?
Speaker 6 (24:41):
Oh, I think undoubtedly at some point in the future.
Who knows.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
The reason I asked that, sorry to interrupt, is because
I wonder if monetary policy and economics has evolved a
bit more where sensible governments can sort of manage things
a little bit, so we live within a narrower band
without those extremes, although we have some medicine extremes in
terms of wealth, haven't we? But now you know, because
(25:09):
for instance, I'm probably a little bit a little bit
pessimistic and concerned how long it's going to take us
to boost our GDP and to get out of the
doldrums a bit, because it does feel despite whatever headlines
you might read, it does feel pretty blur at the moment,
doesn't it.
Speaker 6 (25:24):
Yes, yes, it does. I do think economics is better.
It's way better than you know when I was saying
my twenties or thirties. I think governments can manage the
economy much better. They've got far better data. But still
there's going to be something come out of left field
and that will cause a depression at some point. No,
(25:49):
no idea. When I think this recession. We've got a
sort of it was first we've had for a good
while other than during the during cover. But I think
it's a bit of a shot across our bowels because
for a lot of people it's kind of a wake
up call. And you know, the I can't see New
(26:14):
Zealand wriggling out of this quickly either, you know, that's
sort of what you were saying. I can't see. I
can't see we've got any fantastic industries to do that with,
and we don't have an oval strategy like the like
Singapore or or even Hong Kong you used to have.
(26:36):
And we've got a couple of the two main industries
are in trouble. One is agriculture. Yes, I know dairy
prices are up a little bit a little bit now,
but in lots of ways if you stand back and
look at the big betause you say that agriculture is
losing its social license. And then the other big industry've
got is tourism, which is still not back to pre
(26:57):
COVID COVID levels, but even so it's a scungy sort
of industry. It's an industry base based on people making
cups of coffee, for tourists basically making their beds and
that sort of thing. You can't get productivity growth out
of tourism. Tourism somebody can only make one bed every
(27:18):
ten minutes, mons or whatever it is. It's you know,
it's real price. Take us up and we try to
get to the top end of tourism, you know, by
getting the wealthiest people to come. But yeah, and do
we make some progress on that, but it's still pretty
just jolly difficult in Udustrand and I say that having
lived twenty years in Queens Fne.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Yeah, which is obviously we know where Queenstone gets its money. Well,
they get their money from selling real estate as well
and developing things. But I like your thoughts on this
about what's firstly getting back to that question I asked
of Martin about what are the trade offs you make
when it comes to managing your own debt, indebtedness and
(28:00):
way of life. And look, I know, if there are
people are living from paycheck to pray check, there's not
a lot of trading off that goes on. Although even
within smaller budgets there are still those things where you think, okay,
well I'm just not going to fall go having that
coffee on a Tuesday morning and a scone or something.
That's my little bit of luxury. What are the luxuries
that you you give priority to when if you will
(28:22):
simply all about the money, you would do everything to
pay off your debt and to save as much as possible.
We love your calls on that as well. You'll also
give you all feelings on the outlook that Martin and
I have sort of been sharing about the future in
New Zealand, which does make you sort of understand why
politicians like for instance, Shane Jones comes to mind pushes
we're going to dig, dig, dig, baby. We got to
(28:44):
get the minerals. We've got to do whatever it takes
to develop more wealth, which sounds politically from that point
of view, quite appealing. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten
addicts twenty one to two six News Talks. He'd be yes,
(29:13):
welcome back to the show. Now I'm thinking through the
smart money lens, why is Billy Joel interested in an
uptown girl because he wants to have a bit of lifestyle.
Of course, he's an uptown boy these days. Billy Joel.
I hate to think what he's made over his career,
but just selling out Madison Square Garden once a month.
Is your sort of monthly pub gig. That'll be a
gig to go to, wouldn't it. Martin Dawes.
Speaker 6 (29:32):
Yes, you shouldn't have given up the well, you haven't
given up music.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Me.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
No, I'm not quite updown. It wasn't Christy Brinkley, I think,
wasn't it Billy Joel? Anyway, looks good to bound through
out these things. Hey, look, it's a few texts before there.
I do want to touch on Key we Saver because
there's been some stuff out about some of the funds
that haven't been performing as well as others. Somebody's one
(29:58):
person just says, the choices that we make are a
lot about the spoon that you're given. And I guess
that's I'm not sure. Is there another analogy for silver spoon?
Is there stainless steel?
Speaker 6 (30:13):
YEA, A rough pewter or something. I suppose No, I
supposed pewter is quite quite valuable. Look, there's a lot
of truth in that, you know, I mean, I you know,
I don't think I'm particularly clever or anything. I've done
reasonably well. But I was brought up by two loving
parents who really valued education, demanded that I continue to
(30:38):
have an education. They were both very good with words.
They loved language. That that came down to me. I
went to a very good school. It was a public school,
but a very good school with some absolutely wonderful teachers.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
I drop the name well.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
Iwan Marshall was one of them, and Derek Bolt was
the other white Tachi boys High school. There was the school.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
Yeah that's right, man, Yeah, yeah, those names schools or
something of course.
Speaker 6 (31:10):
Yeah, yeah, but a whole bunch of really good teachers
who again demanded that you learn stuff. So I've had
every advantage and no silver spone, that's for sure.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
A wealthy family, but wealth wealth is and lots more
ways and money.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
Look, I don't want to get distracted by this particular
threat of conversation, but I agree one hundred percent. I
think that the worst thing that you can probably do
for your kids is to simply hand them wealth without
the education that supported your building that in the first place.
I've got a question here, Martin. Martin, we have almost
(31:49):
half a half a million invested trying to set up
for retirement, which is a few years away. My questions
relate to poorly performing stocks, namely New Zealand. Conversely, US
stocks are doing well, why would we even consider investing
in New Zealand. I'm sure mister Luxeon would like to
see New Zealand investing. What are your observations on that?
(32:12):
As an author of financial author.
Speaker 6 (32:14):
I don't manage my portfolio, portfolio or any more. But
one of the one things that I did say to
the people who are managing it now is that I
didn't want to be heavily invested in New Zealand. Yes,
I'd have a token amount and that it's less than
ten percent and invested in New Zealand. The balance of
it is in US and particularly US equities, a little
(32:38):
bit in Europe as well. So I don't think you know.
I mean, I love New Zealand. I choose to live here.
I could go on the elsewhere, but I'm not going
to have the bulk of my money here because well,
I just can't see anything decent to put my money into.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Gosh, that's a sobering comment because I appreciate your honesty
on that, because in a way, hearing you say that
sort of it doesn't shock me, but it's a ring
because it highlights the things that we're all worried about.
And because it's what's the expression, money talks and in
terms of backing where you want to put your money,
that says, yeah, I mean, I don't invest in the
(33:19):
shere market, but if I was, I'd probably be saying
I'd probably be going to some fun saying you know,
you know the ones that are focused on the US stocks.
And that feels almost a bit it feels a bit
very non whiteingy day of me.
Speaker 6 (33:35):
Yes, well, I mean I'm a very proud New Zealer
and I couldn't live anywhere else. But look, the big
things that are happening in the world, they're not happening
in Dunedin. They're not happening in Wellington or even Auckland.
They're happening in the Silicon Valley or Seattle or places
(33:58):
like that. Because the big things are happening in the
world are about AI and they're about medical devices, they're
about biotechnology, they're about clean technology and so forth. They're
not happening here. They're happening internationally, and that's where you
need to have your money invested. I'm really sorry for
that because if there were you know, I certainly you
(34:20):
know Mainfrase is a very very good company, and you know,
my managers have to have me in some things like that.
I'm not saying there's nothing here, but there's no major
industry that I would think of as a theme and
say in New Zealander, I'm going to invest in that.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
That shows I think you've just summed up for me
in a few sentences that the challenges that we've got
and that our politicians have got, isn't it. Let's take
some calls David, Hello.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, Hi, Yeah, I just wanted to contribute to conversation.
I took all our funds out a few years ago
and it took it all out of the New Zealand
market and put it into an a senate of boards.
Five hundred has been in these funds, and boy, I
(35:10):
have not regretted that. Man. We've got so much money
back from just the increase in you know, the business,
you know, increasing the profits of the businesses in America.
But not only that, the New Zealand has. The inflation
(35:33):
of the New Zealm dollar versus UIs dollar is really contributed.
And so in the last year, I think it's it's
gone up to like forty I don't want to exaggerate,
but I think it's from like forty percent. Yeah, and
the last five years, I think it's been about a
twenty percent return, which is phenomenal. I mean, if I
said to someone, I'll only give you a twenty cent
(35:55):
return year on year, they would accuse me of being
a bondie scheme. You know, that's how good it seems.
Speaker 5 (36:03):
Yeah, yes, and I guess past theerformance is no indicator
of future performance, and we are We've got a little
bit more uncertainty out there, but those are pretty amazing
just for a standard and Poors five hundred.
Speaker 6 (36:13):
Isn't it. We've got a lot of them uncertainly out there.
But you know, the S and P five hundred is
five hundred biggest companies in the US, and that's not
a special you know, the main companies in that, the
biggest nine I think, are all tech companies. But you know,
you could be much more targeted in tech if you
(36:33):
want it to be. And you know, I mean that
has done fabulously well. You know, Amazon listed twenty seven
years ago, it's given a thirty three percent per annum
return ever since, as listed for twenty seven years. Apple
a similar kind of thing in video that makes makes
chips for twenty years. It's given on average or return
(36:57):
of I think it's something.
Speaker 5 (36:59):
As it were covered from that deep set sort of
shock that in video got it and had a bit
of effect.
Speaker 6 (37:04):
It's partly covered. I personally think that was a bit overdone.
That doesn't quite smell right to me the thing. Yeah,
and yeah, I think that we might find it's easy
to copy somebody, but hard to do the original research.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
And be the least you've taken it. You've taken the
words right out of my mouth on that one, because
in fact I downloaded deep Sect to check it out,
and I tell you it's blim and slow mind you.
I think probably because everyone was downloading it at the time.
But yeah, actually, I'll come back. We got to just
touch on the key we saver stuff in just a
moment just before we wrap up, Martin. But we'll be
back in just to take it's nine minutes to six.
(37:46):
Let's welcome back to Smart Money. My guest is Martin
Haawes and financial author. Actually we've done have much time, Martin,
but I just wanted to touch on that story which
showed that A and Z hadn't performed too flash on
the key we save steaks and just checking with you
on how often you reckon. People should actually review their
key we saber because past performance no guarantee of future.
How do you work out whether you've got the right
(38:06):
fund because you know, no, my life, God change just
as that fund went bananas.
Speaker 6 (38:13):
It's it's one of the big problems with Keep you
sav How do you choose the right fund? And the
most important thing is that you're in the fund with
the right amount of risk, you know, conservative, balanced, or
or growth. So that's that's the first thing. But then
which provided you go to is just for it's really
really difficult. ANZ Bank used to be an absolutely top
(38:34):
notch investor.
Speaker 5 (38:35):
They had a bad year this year, didn't they.
Speaker 6 (38:37):
Yep, yep, yep. And and it happens all the time.
Somebody's top of the pops and then they do it bad.
Why Oh, it'll be something probably to do with their strategy.
Somebody's had some idea of investing in some particular area
or not investing in a particular area. They would have
(38:58):
been on the wrong side of something. It probably comes
down to, I mean, investments mostly about people processes.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
They could turn it around though, couldn't they. That's I
think people might go stuffeans in, I'll go with someone
else and then next minute, oh, Gans, it's top of
the pops again.
Speaker 6 (39:14):
Yeah, but a bit of luck. You know, they they've
still got the same people. They change strategy back to
what they used to have, and you know they could
be doing really well. I would not swap from provider
to provider. There's no cost to do it. But you're
just trying to chase your tail.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
Can you actually we've only got about thirty seconds left,
but can you actually target particular markets? Are they funds
that actually, like we're focused on the US and things.
Speaker 6 (39:39):
Yes, there are funds that will let you do that,
that will give you a lot of a lot of
personal choice as to what you want to be invested in.
Speaker 5 (39:47):
Well, we'll dig into that to another time. Meanwhile, Martin,
great to chat to you again, mate, I really appreciate it,
and enjoy the rest of what's left you view weekend.
That's Martin Haawes. Thanks Martin, and we'll be back same
time next weekend Sunday at six as next thanks to
Tyra Roberts. Enjoy the the rest of your Sunday evening,
and we'll look forward to you again sometime soon.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks it Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
It'd be.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
In the summer time when the well, who is hot?
You can stretch right up, ben versus guy. When the
weather's fine. You got women, you got women on your mind,
have a drink, cabageove, go out and see what you get.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Fine, if that is rich, take her out of a meal.
Speaker 5 (00:31):
If not is part just do what you fail.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Speed alone and lady you can die and or rejoin.
Speaker 5 (00:37):
It's ready five.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
When the sun goes down, you can make it bigger,
good and ali by. We're not bed people when not diddy,
we're not mean. We love everybody, but we do as
we please.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
And welcome back to the service of the Weekend Collective
on Tion Beverage. And this is smart Money. By the way,
if you've missed any of our previous house you want
to catch up on them, to go to the News
Talk c B website or to iHeartRadio and look for
the podcast for the Weekend Collective. As I mentioned right now,
it is time for smart Money. Want your calls on
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty in text on nine
to nine to two. We're going to have a chat
(01:14):
about I guess, broadly speaking, managing your indebtedness, but how
much debt you should take on? For instance, how much
should you spend on a house versus how much the
bank is willing to lend you. Because new data from
Centris has revealed that the number of homeowners who are
behind on their mortgaged and mortgage sorry increased by eleven
hundred people in December alone. So with interest rates dropping significantly,
(01:41):
many would have thought things would be a little bit
easier financially. So what has happened and how are people
coping with that? And what is the best way to
manage that debt? And I mean, how desperately should you
also just make sure that you don't get into debt?
And how do you see about managing your debt so
you don't get into trouble with things like your mortgage,
which is the last thing you would want anyone to
be stressed about, because the stress around being behind on
(02:03):
your mortgage payments just be absolutely horrendous. Anyway, joining us
to talk about that is the financial author of how
many books I think we've lost count But there's another one?
Is it coming out soon? It's Martin Hall is goody
Martin how are you?
Speaker 6 (02:16):
Yeah, yeah, hi, hi there, Yes it is. It's coming
out in March.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
This is number seventeen or eighteen.
Speaker 6 (02:23):
No, it's twenty four.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
Oh, twenty four books.
Speaker 6 (02:27):
Yeah, I'm so embarrassed to say the number. But it's
over a long period of time. You know. I wrote
my first one in nineteen eighty seven, so you know,
it's not like I've just rustled them up in the
last couple of weeks or some point.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
I guess, because there must be themes that do recur
in the books. But are there or do you manage
to write completely about something that you've never written about before.
Speaker 6 (02:50):
I'd call it crossover? Yeah, you know, so if I
write about investment, I have to write a little bit
about property investment. And I've already wrested on a wholebok
on property investment. Very outdated.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Now.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
I had a look at the other day and I
was talking about houses, you know, good houses that you
could buy for two hundred thousand, that sort of stuff,
because it was done well, it was done back in
ninety war, I think of ninety five or something. So
it's you know, it whatard embarrass me to see it
in a bookshop now. But you know, there's always a
bit of crossover, but it's certainly themed quite separately, and
(03:29):
they're about the big picture, if you like. Is quite
a different topic from anything else I've done. Yeah. Has
it got a title, Yeah, A Retirement Ready. So it's
a book about it's quite biographical. I think I've probably
said this to you before, but I had a couple
(03:51):
of bad years in my life, ended up moving from
Queenstownd to christ Church. And when you have a big
change in your life, and I certainly have a big change,
I sat down and figured out what part of my
finances need to change, and there are probably six or
seven major areas. So I wound up the family trust,
(04:16):
I did a new will, I handed my investments over
to somebody to manage for me after forty five years
of doing it. So a bunch of stuff like that.
So the book basically relates those things, because although I
don't intend to retire, I know very well that I
could be retired. I could find myself retired for some
(04:38):
reason or other.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
Well, of course, for many people, the thought of retiring
is a long way away. When you've got these figures
about the number of people who are behind on their mortgages. Yes,
it does feel pretty grim, doesn't when you see those
sorts of headlines, isn't it?
Speaker 6 (04:54):
Yes? It does. And look, I don't think the recession
is over. It's hard to know. In New Zeallympics. We
are so behind and getting data. We don't get data monthly,
we get generally quarterly, and I think that's a real
fault New Zenald, So we we don't know how bad
(05:14):
things are they are. But I have a bunch of
small business owners who I talk to pretty regularly and
have done for years, in some cases forty odd years,
and some of them have always been extremely good bell
weathers for telling me what's going on in the in
the in the economy. And you know, if I say
it one of them, you know, how are sales at
(05:37):
the moment, and they say absolutely dreadful, then I know
that that's a pretty good sign that people are hurting
out there, and I think they are. And you know
that that figure showing mortgage differulties rising in December. December
is a high expense month, so you're trying to do
(05:58):
something for the kids, You're trying to have a reasoning
sort of Christmas, and the mortgage shouldn't go on the
back burner, but it very often does. And I suspect
January is going to be pretty tough for people, and
probably for another three months or so at least.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Yes, because the number of people who are behind on
their mortgages is over twenty two thousand now, so that
number increased by eleven ye yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't
think of any Oh. Look, look, there's all sorts of
stresses that we can have in life, but in terms
of financial stress, I've got to think that being behind
on your mortgage must be the the up there in
(06:36):
terms of the number one that you don't want to be,
And isn't it.
Speaker 6 (06:39):
No, yeah, that'll be right. But tim of you ever
lost your job, you know, don't come back, don't hume
back Monday. So an awful lot of public servants have
lost their jobs and there's a fair unemployment as rising.
Infrastrates are not really falling terribly quickly. So they are,
(07:00):
you know, the four point two five, but you know
we've got floating which is a seven percent and fixed
the fixed rate ones that six six and a half.
That that kind of thing. They're not they're still pretty
jolly expense of given the fact that inflation's gone down
to two point two last cause, which really takes me.
(07:22):
Sorry to interrupt and rave.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Varner, but no, this is what you stay silent.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
Me stay silent. Never the we measure inflation quarterly in
this country, so our inflation came out, I mean it
was the twenty second of January, and that was for
the last quarter, so that was October, November, December, so
we knew at the end of January what inflation had
(07:55):
been in October, because you know, like the US and
the UK and most big economies measuring this monthly, so
they've got their finger right on the pole. So Deserve
Bank is getting those those numbers and being i think
very reactive and and and dropping intst rates and quite
(08:21):
big chunks as they see. We don't know what inflation
was in January, and we won't know until April, yeh
of April.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
And of course, I mean just generally in terms of
the economy and the global outlook, there's still a wack
of uncertainty there out there at the moment, isn't there
Just it's just colossal there is.
Speaker 6 (08:41):
Yes, investors are doing well. Investors are doing quite well.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
What sort of investors you mean people are, yeah, you.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
Keep you saving investors and Shermark and investors and the likes.
But I think where there's probably a lot of hurts
in the small medium sized business area in New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
Because one of the things I think I was as
I was looking at the questions that we've sort of
lined up to talk out with her to do with
the debt and how much should you spend on a
house versus how much the bank is willing to lend you,
I was thinking that if I was sitting back and
listening to conversations around debt, and I guess through the
course of smart Money, I've we hear people talking about
(09:21):
how to use debt and how debt can be used
to build your wealth and things like that. And yet
when you are in the situation where debt's getting on
top of you, and now we're looking at the number
of people who are not managing their mortgages, I just
I think there's some of the question about there about
what is what attitude should we have towards debt and
(09:45):
to how approach it to approach it, because of course,
when you are borrowed in a property market which is
going gangbusters, then you've leveraged up the ying yang and
you might be terrified, but then you're laughing a few
years later because things are gone nutty. But if it
goes the other way as well, and you get bitten
by too much debt, it can really ruin your life,
(10:07):
can't it.
Speaker 6 (10:09):
Absolutely. You know, it's a double short sort. You know,
it cuts back to ways. It cuts on the upside.
It's great on the upside, as you say, but it's
really really bad on the downside. You know, we've been
talking about mortgages, and you know, I think everybody would
say it's fair enough, it's probably absolutely necessary, and the
vast vast majority of people the cases that they would
(10:30):
have to borrow to buy a house. But it's when
people are borrowing to buy consumer items like appliances and
so forth, and these things are always going to depreciation
value that you're starting to get in trouble. And the
trouble becomes much worse when you start to borrow for consumption,
(10:51):
and that you really are on the skids there. So
I always think of debt as you know, there's good debt,
and that's for things that go up in value will
tend to go up in value being houses, and.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
It's as that supports your ability, supports your ability to
generate income which covers more than the debt pays for them.
Speaker 6 (11:11):
You know. Yep. But when you go out and you
put the car or the new dishrusher on HV, I
think that's a hold.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Of the border because for some people, that is borrowing
to buy basic things that I would call them housing
infrastructure in a way you just talked about buying a
dryer or a bed or things like that. People borrow
a lot for that. It's quite consistent. I don't know why,
because I never really got particularly financial advice from my
(11:40):
family or anything, but I always thought instinctively that putting
something on lay by or paying something off gradually didn't
make sense, just because I thought, well, why would you
do that? Why wouldn't you just wait until you've got
the money and then buy. But not everyone has that
convenience of just going, well, I'll wait a little bit
longer till I've saved for that particular item, and that
becomes part of their way of life, doesn't it.
Speaker 6 (12:02):
Yeah, yep. And Lita, it's a lower income country, you know,
there are a lot of people, even in relatively good
time who are struggling. We don't pay high wages here.
We don't have industries that are able to afford to buy,
sorry to pay high wages. You know, it's fairly hard
(12:22):
scrabble being in Mirrle New Zealand, even at the very
best of times, let alone at times like now when
there are layoffs happening, when infistrates are sticky. On the upside,
it's pretty jully hard for people.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
What advice do you give to people who are in
a position of paying off debt how quickly they should
do it, because if it would love to hear your
approach on this as well, how hard do you strive
to pay off debt versus going Well, Okay, I could
pay my mortgage off a few years earlier, but I
also do want to actually enjoy life before I need
to retire, because it is it is an interesting balance
(13:00):
to strike, isn't it Like I could probably I'm we're
in the fortunate position that we've paid a lot of
our mortgage off, but if I really wanted to, I
could probably pay it off several years earlier. But the
hedonistic part of Tim Beveridge wants to have that wants
to go hiking in the in the Alps.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
Yeah, there's a there's a balance on that, isn't it.
But my general principle, if the debt is non tax deductible,
you know, so it's for the house you're going to
live in or for its an appliance, and it's not
for a business or to invest in property or something
like that, then I would be saying, pay off that
non deductible debt as fast as you possibly can get
(13:40):
that off your back, and then I think you can
start to relax. Now the bit of rolling of eyes
and so forth when I say this, but I always
think as an aim, people should try to have their
mortgage paid off by the time they're in their early
early to mid fifties, something like something like that. And
I think when that happens, you'd have with bloody good
(14:02):
celebration and maybe even spend you know, make the last
mortgage payment and then make the next fun that you've
got for a really good trip or something. I've really
looked forward forward.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
And the reason I raised that is because I recently
just for an exercise. It ties into a couple of
things You've talked about how the cost of borrowing is
still quite high, so we've got. I think that there's
this there's this idea that in New Zealand that oh,
look this house is only eight or nine hundred thousand
dollars or something, and people think, oh, that's that doesn't
(14:33):
sound that expensive. But then you work out what the
mortgage is on that and you go, hell, that's a
lot of money. But what it ties into is that
if you do decide to let that mortgage go for
another five years, that is actually worth a truckload of money,
isn't it? And the interest Whereas if you so, the
moral of the story I'm yes, I'm leaning to is
I should be lecturing myself to biting the bullet and
(14:56):
paying that mortgage off as fast as possible because it's
worth tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (15:04):
If I well a financial advisor, and I'm not from
I was your financial advisor, I'd be banning with table.
I'm saying, yes, get rid of the thing. Life can
be a whole lot different if you don't have that
monkey on your back.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
So we want to know your attitude to debt. This
is basically a simple question. We've got lots of questions
around this about how much you should spend on your
house versus how much the bank is willing to lend you.
But how if you are listening right now, how cautious
are you or careless if you like. And I don't
mean that in a judgmental way either, because we can
all form our own judgments on our attitude towards money.
(15:39):
But how cautious are you when it comes to debt?
Because while you might be borrowing for something which you
think is going to make you a fortune, if it
turns the other way, it can be a really nasty
You can find yourself in a bit of a pickle.
So do you try and pay off your mortgage as
fast as possible or do you sort of think, well,
you know what, I also want to be able to
(16:01):
enjoy life. But that ten thousand dollars holiday you might
or maybe even more if you're going overseas, how much
is that worth in the mortgage ultimately that you're going
to pay for that holiday because you didn't stick it
off your mortgage in the first place. I just want
to know that your attitude towards how urgently you address
paying off your debt eight hundred and eighty ten and
eighty text nine two nine two. You can email Tim
(16:24):
be it Newstalks said, be But you know what, this
is a talk back show, so let's get on the blower.
Twenty three past five. Welcome back to Smart Money. My
guest is financial author. He used to be a financial advisor,
but now he's a financial author. He dishes out of
his advice.
Speaker 6 (16:36):
Did I?
Speaker 5 (16:37):
I didn't. I hope I didn't describe his financial advisor earlier, Martin.
But anyway, we've moved on. It's Martin Hahawes and he's
got a new book coming out soon, by the way,
Retirement Ready, So keep an eye out for that when
it does actually hit the shops. I realized, actually the
way I framed my question, by the way, was around
our attitude to debt. But I think that the more
(16:57):
digestible question for people is we, in most of us
who've got a house or rent, we've got some sort
of debt, haven't we. What are the luxuries that you
often see taking priority? What are the luxuries in your
life that you give priority to because you still want
to live when in fact, if we listened to the
advice that Martin might give, if you're still a financial adviser,
(17:19):
there would be banging the table saying, just pay off
the mortgage. Martin. In your own life, you would have
had moments where you possibly could have paid more off
something I'm guessing, but you would have made a trade off.
What were your trade offs?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
For?
Speaker 6 (17:35):
My trade offs were generally lifestyle rather than buying stuff.
I mean I could have made a lot more money.
Have I been or christ Church rather than Queenstown, then
I would have had a much bigger career. I knew
it at the time, but I thought, well, I'm I'm
(17:56):
prepared to give up, to give up some income, to
give up building a business or anything like that, and
have a lifestyle full of mountaineering and skiing and well
generally messing around.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
That's exactly the issue I think many of us have.
And look, we live in a gorgeous country. We want
to make the use of it. But also New Zealanders
love overseas travel. I mean, you're the sentiments you've just
talked about the mountains and skiing and lifestyle and mountaineering.
I think you've been. Haven't you been mountaineering in France recently?
Speaker 6 (18:27):
Yes? I have? Yeah, yeah, well a year ago, oh,
a year ago.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Well, let's call it recently, because that's the same time
I heard our trip. But those are the questions, and
that is that the cynical way I would put it,
cynical way whatever, Just the way I would say, which
maybe set me up for people to immediately swap me
down as having a bad attitude, was I don't want
to be saving so hard for retirement that I can
(18:53):
look back and luxury and a life that I haven't lived.
Speaker 6 (18:56):
Yes, I think it does. It's really really well some time.
You know, it's a trade off, it's a balance, it's
what we're comfortable with. I don't think there's any rule
of thumb or anything like that. It's a trade off
between the present and the future. The present getting yourself
(19:18):
into a strong financial position, maybe having no death or
at least very little dere the future in terms of
savings and such like. So, I mean, you can you know,
I know people who have spent their berty paying off
their mortgage and getting themselves into a very strong position.
(19:39):
They can live the rest of their life mortgage free.
They've probably got a bit of income from other sources,
they can work part time. That kind of thing. They
pay a big price for that, and the price they
pay is lifestyle. Now I'm having a pretty good lifestyle
at the moment because although I work, you know, I'm
not working full time or anything like that. And so
(20:01):
I'm going to the likes of France or Italy this
year probably to go climb and to go rock climbing,
or to go mountain mountain, mountaineeric. But you know, I mean,
excuse me. I made it through to them. Some people
don't make it through through, you know, to their health,
and then they can no longer. I can still carry
(20:23):
on during mountaineering rock climbing on my seventies. A lot
of people wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Yeah, I think because I think that that's ultimately when
it comes to questions we can all relate to, whether
it comes to money and finances, is what trade off
are you prepared to make? And I mean, look, I've
been a musician for I was a freelance musician for
quite a few years, and that is a tough way, yes,
financially that there is a major sacrifice that comes. Until
(20:50):
I could have stayed practicing law, and who knows, but
I would have looked back and there's a certain element
that in my poverty. I do feel pretty good about
the choices I've made, because ultimately life is for living.
But it is it's a constant I don't know how
many people wrestle with this, and I would imagine everyone does,
doesn't it, Because you see people who seem to seamlessly
(21:11):
make a decision to, you know, really aggressively attack their
finances and get on top of it and things, and
it always feels like it's effortless for them. But when
you talk to them and go, oh, well, you know,
I wish I'd done X, Y and Z, and instead
we focused on paying off our debt. And it is.
It's a constant wrestling match with everyone, unless you win
the lotto. And even then people still blow the money.
Speaker 6 (21:34):
Don't they. They are very high proportional of them. It's
I think it's a very difficult thing. I don't think
that most people make a conscious decision. Although when they
realize they've made a decision, say to have the overseas trip,
instead of waking ten dollars of them more which were
twenty when they or twenty when they've made that decision,
(21:58):
they're very good at at justifying it, having already made it.
They've made the decision because that's what they want to do,
but then they come up with the reasons they do it,
and often around lifestyle is the thing. You know, I
said before, I think people should be aimble to pay
off their mortgage in the early to make fifties and
(22:19):
people will have all their lives and how do you
do that these days? And I'm well aware that young
people now have a lot more temptation put in their
way than we to. You know, overseas travel is as
easier for.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
The Instagram lifestyle.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
Yeah, exactly, yep. If you've got to create your lifestyle
on Facebook, just just so you've got to be doing
this these kinds of things. You've got to have these
kinds of things, whether it's electronics or what have you.
I'm not can't remember who it was who was talking
about the smashed avocado on toast. Yeah, yeah, and sort
(22:58):
of scoffing about it. I know people have the temptation,
but I think I think we've always got to try
and say, to what thing do I will I feel
the most value? Yeah, And for some people come up
with the idea of having no debt, it's so valuable
to them that they're prepared to go, prepared to foregos
(23:21):
things for other people. You know, they value the overseas truck,
they value the ski holiday or what have you.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
It's an interesting one because it almost lends us in
a money out. It's a philosophical question around, I think,
because yeah, they're not easy. They're not easy decisions to answer,
and I sometimes wonder whether each generation is influenced to
go the opposite way of the previous one. And you
will have spoken to plenty of people. In fact, often
(23:51):
you talk to a successful business person man or woman
about things and you'll say, how did you end up
deciding to do X, Y and Z? And they I've
heard it quite a few times, and they said, I
saw how my parentstruggled from payday to payday, and I
resolved I would never be like that. So their priority
was easily set at it's all about wealth accumulation, full stop.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
Yes. My parents used to tell us about the depression.
I was going to say, AGNs No, it just left
such a huge scar on them that my father particularly
kept saying, there will be another depression, there will be
another depression. You've got to make sure that you've got
yourself in a position that you can withstand that.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
Do you think there will be another depression? Martain?
Speaker 6 (24:41):
Oh, I think undoubtedly at some point in the future.
Who knows.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
The reason I asked that, sorry to interrupt, is because
I wonder if monetary policy and economics has evolved a
bit more where sensible governments can sort of manage things
a little bit, so we live within a narrower band
without those extremes, although we have some medicine extremes in
terms of wealth, haven't we? But now you know, because
(25:09):
for instance, I'm probably a little bit a little bit
pessimistic and concerned how long it's going to take us
to boost our GDP and to get out of the
doldrums a bit, because it does feel despite whatever headlines
you might read, it does feel pretty blur at the moment,
doesn't it.
Speaker 6 (25:24):
Yes, yes, it does. I do think economics is better.
It's way better than you know when I was saying
my twenties or thirties. I think governments can manage the
economy much better. They've got far better data. But still
there's going to be something come out of left field
and that will cause a depression at some point. No,
(25:49):
no idea. When I think this recession. We've got a
sort of it was first we've had for a good
while other than during the during cover. But I think
it's a bit of a shot across our bowels because
for a lot of people it's kind of a wake
up call. And you know, the I can't see New
(26:14):
Zealand wriggling out of this quickly either, you know, that's
sort of what you were saying. I can't see. I
can't see we've got any fantastic industries to do that with,
and we don't have an oval strategy like the like
Singapore or or even Hong Kong you used to have.
(26:36):
And we've got a couple of the two main industries
are in trouble. One is agriculture. Yes, I know dairy
prices are up a little bit a little bit now,
but in lots of ways if you stand back and
look at the big betause you say that agriculture is
losing its social license. And then the other big industry've
got is tourism, which is still not back to pre
(26:57):
COVID COVID levels, but even so it's a scungy sort
of industry. It's an industry base based on people making
cups of coffee, for tourists basically making their beds and
that sort of thing. You can't get productivity growth out
of tourism. Tourism somebody can only make one bed every
(27:18):
ten minutes, mons or whatever it is. It's you know,
it's real price. Take us up and we try to
get to the top end of tourism, you know, by
getting the wealthiest people to come. But yeah, and do
we make some progress on that, but it's still pretty
just jolly difficult in Udustrand and I say that having
lived twenty years in Queens Fne.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Yeah, which is obviously we know where Queenstone gets its money. Well,
they get their money from selling real estate as well
and developing things. But I like your thoughts on this
about what's firstly getting back to that question I asked
of Martin about what are the trade offs you make
when it comes to managing your own debt, indebtedness and
(28:00):
way of life. And look, I know, if there are
people are living from paycheck to pray check, there's not
a lot of trading off that goes on. Although even
within smaller budgets there are still those things where you think, okay,
well I'm just not going to fall go having that
coffee on a Tuesday morning and a scone or something.
That's my little bit of luxury. What are the luxuries
that you you give priority to when if you will
(28:22):
simply all about the money, you would do everything to
pay off your debt and to save as much as possible.
We love your calls on that as well. You'll also
give you all feelings on the outlook that Martin and
I have sort of been sharing about the future in
New Zealand, which does make you sort of understand why
politicians like for instance, Shane Jones comes to mind pushes
we're going to dig, dig, dig, baby. We got to
(28:44):
get the minerals. We've got to do whatever it takes
to develop more wealth, which sounds politically from that point
of view, quite appealing. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten
addicts twenty one to two six News Talks. He'd be yes,
(29:13):
welcome back to the show. Now I'm thinking through the
smart money lens, why is Billy Joel interested in an
uptown girl because he wants to have a bit of lifestyle.
Of course, he's an uptown boy these days. Billy Joel.
I hate to think what he's made over his career,
but just selling out Madison Square Garden once a month.
Is your sort of monthly pub gig. That'll be a
gig to go to, wouldn't it. Martin Dawes.
Speaker 6 (29:32):
Yes, you shouldn't have given up the well, you haven't
given up music.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Me.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
No, I'm not quite updown. It wasn't Christy Brinkley, I think,
wasn't it Billy Joel? Anyway, looks good to bound through
out these things. Hey, look, it's a few texts before there.
I do want to touch on Key we Saver because
there's been some stuff out about some of the funds
that haven't been performing as well as others. Somebody's one
(29:58):
person just says, the choices that we make are a
lot about the spoon that you're given. And I guess
that's I'm not sure. Is there another analogy for silver spoon?
Is there stainless steel?
Speaker 6 (30:13):
YEA, A rough pewter or something. I suppose No, I
supposed pewter is quite quite valuable. Look, there's a lot
of truth in that, you know, I mean, I you know,
I don't think I'm particularly clever or anything. I've done
reasonably well. But I was brought up by two loving
parents who really valued education, demanded that I continue to
(30:38):
have an education. They were both very good with words.
They loved language. That that came down to me. I
went to a very good school. It was a public school,
but a very good school with some absolutely wonderful teachers.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
I drop the name well.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
Iwan Marshall was one of them, and Derek Bolt was
the other white Tachi boys High school. There was the school.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
Yeah that's right, man, Yeah, yeah, those names schools or
something of course.
Speaker 6 (31:10):
Yeah, yeah, but a whole bunch of really good teachers
who again demanded that you learn stuff. So I've had
every advantage and no silver spone, that's for sure.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
A wealthy family, but wealth wealth is and lots more
ways and money.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
Look, I don't want to get distracted by this particular
threat of conversation, but I agree one hundred percent. I
think that the worst thing that you can probably do
for your kids is to simply hand them wealth without
the education that supported your building that in the first place.
I've got a question here, Martin. Martin, we have almost
(31:49):
half a half a million invested trying to set up
for retirement, which is a few years away. My questions
relate to poorly performing stocks, namely New Zealand. Conversely, US
stocks are doing well, why would we even consider investing
in New Zealand. I'm sure mister Luxeon would like to
see New Zealand investing. What are your observations on that?
(32:12):
As an author of financial author.
Speaker 6 (32:14):
I don't manage my portfolio, portfolio or any more. But
one of the one things that I did say to
the people who are managing it now is that I
didn't want to be heavily invested in New Zealand. Yes,
I'd have a token amount and that it's less than
ten percent and invested in New Zealand. The balance of
it is in US and particularly US equities, a little
(32:38):
bit in Europe as well. So I don't think you know.
I mean, I love New Zealand. I choose to live here.
I could go on the elsewhere, but I'm not going
to have the bulk of my money here because well,
I just can't see anything decent to put my money into.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Gosh, that's a sobering comment because I appreciate your honesty
on that, because in a way, hearing you say that
sort of it doesn't shock me, but it's a ring
because it highlights the things that we're all worried about.
And because it's what's the expression, money talks and in
terms of backing where you want to put your money,
that says, yeah, I mean, I don't invest in the
(33:19):
shere market, but if I was, I'd probably be saying
I'd probably be going to some fun saying you know,
you know the ones that are focused on the US stocks.
And that feels almost a bit it feels a bit
very non whiteingy day of me.
Speaker 6 (33:35):
Yes, well, I mean I'm a very proud New Zealer
and I couldn't live anywhere else. But look, the big
things that are happening in the world, they're not happening
in Dunedin. They're not happening in Wellington or even Auckland.
They're happening in the Silicon Valley or Seattle or places
(33:58):
like that. Because the big things are happening in the
world are about AI and they're about medical devices, they're
about biotechnology, they're about clean technology and so forth. They're
not happening here. They're happening internationally, and that's where you
need to have your money invested. I'm really sorry for
that because if there were you know, I certainly you
(34:20):
know Mainfrase is a very very good company, and you know,
my managers have to have me in some things like that.
I'm not saying there's nothing here, but there's no major
industry that I would think of as a theme and
say in New Zealander, I'm going to invest in that.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
That shows I think you've just summed up for me
in a few sentences that the challenges that we've got
and that our politicians have got, isn't it. Let's take
some calls David, Hello.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, Hi, Yeah, I just wanted to contribute to conversation.
I took all our funds out a few years ago
and it took it all out of the New Zealand
market and put it into an a senate of boards.
Five hundred has been in these funds, and boy, I
(35:10):
have not regretted that. Man. We've got so much money
back from just the increase in you know, the business,
you know, increasing the profits of the businesses in America.
But not only that, the New Zealand has. The inflation
(35:33):
of the New Zealm dollar versus UIs dollar is really contributed.
And so in the last year, I think it's it's
gone up to like forty I don't want to exaggerate,
but I think it's from like forty percent. Yeah, and
the last five years, I think it's been about a
twenty percent return, which is phenomenal. I mean, if I
said to someone, I'll only give you a twenty cent
(35:55):
return year on year, they would accuse me of being
a bondie scheme. You know, that's how good it seems.
Speaker 5 (36:03):
Yeah, yes, and I guess past theerformance is no indicator
of future performance, and we are We've got a little
bit more uncertainty out there, but those are pretty amazing
just for a standard and Poors five hundred.
Speaker 6 (36:13):
Isn't it. We've got a lot of them uncertainly out there.
But you know, the S and P five hundred is
five hundred biggest companies in the US, and that's not
a special you know, the main companies in that, the
biggest nine I think, are all tech companies. But you know,
you could be much more targeted in tech if you
(36:33):
want it to be. And you know, I mean that
has done fabulously well. You know, Amazon listed twenty seven
years ago, it's given a thirty three percent per annum
return ever since, as listed for twenty seven years. Apple
a similar kind of thing in video that makes makes
chips for twenty years. It's given on average or return
(36:57):
of I think it's something.
Speaker 5 (36:59):
As it were covered from that deep set sort of
shock that in video got it and had a bit
of effect.
Speaker 6 (37:04):
It's partly covered. I personally think that was a bit overdone.
That doesn't quite smell right to me the thing. Yeah,
and yeah, I think that we might find it's easy
to copy somebody, but hard to do the original research.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
And be the least you've taken it. You've taken the
words right out of my mouth on that one, because
in fact I downloaded deep Sect to check it out,
and I tell you it's blim and slow mind you.
I think probably because everyone was downloading it at the time.
But yeah, actually, I'll come back. We got to just
touch on the key we saver stuff in just a
moment just before we wrap up, Martin. But we'll be
back in just to take it's nine minutes to six.
(37:46):
Let's welcome back to Smart Money. My guest is Martin
Haawes and financial author. Actually we've done have much time, Martin,
but I just wanted to touch on that story which
showed that A and Z hadn't performed too flash on
the key we save steaks and just checking with you
on how often you reckon. People should actually review their
key we saber because past performance no guarantee of future.
How do you work out whether you've got the right
(38:06):
fund because you know, no, my life, God change just
as that fund went bananas.
Speaker 6 (38:13):
It's it's one of the big problems with Keep you
sav How do you choose the right fund? And the
most important thing is that you're in the fund with
the right amount of risk, you know, conservative, balanced, or
or growth. So that's that's the first thing. But then
which provided you go to is just for it's really
really difficult. ANZ Bank used to be an absolutely top
(38:34):
notch investor.
Speaker 5 (38:35):
They had a bad year this year, didn't they.
Speaker 6 (38:37):
Yep, yep, yep. And and it happens all the time.
Somebody's top of the pops and then they do it bad.
Why Oh, it'll be something probably to do with their strategy.
Somebody's had some idea of investing in some particular area
or not investing in a particular area. They would have
(38:58):
been on the wrong side of something. It probably comes
down to, I mean, investments mostly about people processes.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
They could turn it around though, couldn't they. That's I
think people might go stuffeans in, I'll go with someone
else and then next minute, oh, Gans, it's top of
the pops again.
Speaker 6 (39:14):
Yeah, but a bit of luck. You know, they they've
still got the same people. They change strategy back to
what they used to have, and you know they could
be doing really well. I would not swap from provider
to provider. There's no cost to do it. But you're
just trying to chase your tail.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
Can you actually we've only got about thirty seconds left,
but can you actually target particular markets? Are they funds
that actually, like we're focused on the US and things.
Speaker 6 (39:39):
Yes, there are funds that will let you do that,
that will give you a lot of a lot of
personal choice as to what you want to be invested in.
Speaker 5 (39:47):
Well, we'll dig into that to another time. Meanwhile, Martin,
great to chat to you again, mate, I really appreciate it,
and enjoy the rest of what's left you view weekend.
That's Martin Haawes. Thanks Martin, and we'll be back same
time next weekend Sunday at six as next thanks to
Tyra Roberts. Enjoy the the rest of your Sunday evening,
and we'll look forward to you again sometime soon.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
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