December 15, 2024 • 41 mins
The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment recently said that the Government is considering regulatory changes to enable KiwiSaver providers to increase private asset investments
What does this mean KiwiSaver funds and how could it impact New Zealanders?
Harbour Asset Management Director, Portfolio Manager & Research Analyst Shane Solly joins with more.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News talks'd
be and.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the show on
Tim Beverage the Weekend Collective. Now, by the way, if
you've missed any of the conversations, I've covered a lot
of ground with Alex Bartle around the whole sleep thing,
from well from the serotonin sort of thing and restless
legs to ways to get to sleep and insomnia and
all that sort of stuff. So if you've got if
you'd like to have a listen to that, you can
(00:31):
go and check out our podcast on the Weekend Collective
on iHeartRadio. Likewise, with politics, we interviewed Simon Watts. They've
made an announcement around making it easier to get hydrogen
going as a powersource around New Zealand and the regulatory
changes that'll enable that and to make hydrogen more energy
(00:53):
more easily accessible. And also Fitzsimmons was the solicitor of
the pso we had to chat with them about whether
about the whole work from home thing for public servants.
But right now it is time for Smart Money and
our final appearance this year and hopefully we'll just carry
on the same again next year as well. He is
a direct and portfolio manager and research analyst at Harbor
(01:16):
Asset Management. It's quite a mouthful on the business card,
isn't it? And it's Shane Sally Gido Shane, how are
you going atim?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I'm well, I'm well.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
What do you say when you meet someone for the
first time and they say what do you do? You
don't say I'm portfolio manager and research analyst at Harbor
Asset Management?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Or do you I say I'm a fund manager. I
manage you know, people's hard earned cash. Do they want
to grow and protect? Best? What I tell them? I do?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
How many have you been doing it for?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I've been doing it prayer for thirty years and it's
always interesting. There's for sure, always something new coming along.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's funny actually because we haven't met, although we're on Zoom.
But obviously you've said you've been in the business for
thirty years, so you're not an engine. It's funny how
people this is completely unrelated to money, but I assume
when I first spoke to you that you were probably
about thirty two. I don't know why I thought, oh,
here's the young fella from Harbor asset management.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I wish there was a young fever that's special.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Hey, just before we get into the changes on key
we saber investments and things. I thought, you know, given
it's we've enjoyed having a chat with you guys over
the past year about money. What are the what are
the things that stand out to you about the investment
landscape and the money stories of twenty twenty four that
(02:28):
maybe we've learned some lessons from or you reflect on
you just think, Wow, that was interesting, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Well. I think it's a really important point you raised.
I think there's a lot of people that would have
been very nervous this year in terms of what their
investment funds might have done it you think about the
ongoing geopolitical unrest we have. We've got several wars still
going on around the world, We've had a major transition
of the US government. And what we've seen through all
(02:54):
this is actually investment markets have delivered pretty good returns.
I think when people open up their QIsab or their
investment funds after the end of the December month and
quarter year, I think they're going to be reasonably comfortable
that it's been a positive year. Some assets one doubtedly
have done better. And you've got to come back to
the basics as to why and why have things done okay,
(03:16):
And it's been about inflation. There's inflation battle that are
you know, seeing the central banks have been having to
go at for the last two three years post COVID.
We're finally seeing inflation getting back to more reasonable level.
Is it still got a little way to go? You know,
we're still three percentish and I think you want, you know,
most central banks to targeting at two percentish? Why to
(03:40):
tows a level where most people can at least plan for,
deal with and really manage their home lives and their
businesses with it. So interest rates have come down globally,
you've seen central banks cutting interest rates from quite high
levels to try and get on top of inflation, slow
the economies down, create some room. And what we've seen
(04:01):
is even here locally, we've seen a couple of interest
rate cuts that have been slowly higher than expected, and
that's been a positive. It's certainly been helpful for people
that are investing in a long term government bond yards
and remember that's kind of the StarPoint good for shear
markets globally, we've seen some very strong performance led by
the US, led by unique set of companies. You know,
(04:21):
this magnificent seven continues to charge and so everybody else
doesn't look so good. But actually, on an average year,
we would look pretty good. New Zealand shar market up
over eight percent, eight and a half percent year to date.
That's a pretty good year. That's a normal year, so
we good little way to go. Inflation is still sort
of bouncing around but is trending down, so we will
(04:42):
see some more cuts by the central banks. The pace
might be different. So it's actually been a pretty good year.
So actually, looking back.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I was thinking that that one of the people who
were surprised at how at the at the cuts was
Adrian or circa March this year, because I remember that
I think he was talking about not lowering until sometime
in March next year. But of course now we've seen
obviously his monetary policy. You had carried more of a clout.
What are we down to now? Four point twenty five?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Is it? That's right? That's right?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And you said, did you indicate in your comments there
that central banks really that did you say something we're
beginning with a two or something in terms.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Of are well, that's we're that's we're they're targeting inflation.
Remember this is the band too. But look, I think
you know, can official cash rates get down to something
like a too, you know, with a two in front
of it? Yeah, they could, but yeah, we're going to
be careful what we wish for, right, you know, they're
only going to go there if the economy really needs
that extra boost in the risk in our part of
(05:40):
the world, in New Zealand, because it's about unemployment. So
if unemployment gets to you know, we're up to the
high five sixes, then maybe you see interest official cash rates.
Remembering this is the start point for where we pay mortgages,
where we borrow as businesses, so you know that is
the start point. You know, we could get in below
three percent, but it may only be if we've got
(06:02):
this challenging employment. As you know, I don't want that, right,
I don't you know, we want we don't want people
being out of work and struggling to pay their bills.
But it is possible, It is possible. We're still seeing
a number of business in New Zealand downside.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Then what what do you think though? I mean, I
know this is not necessarily what we're slated to talk about.
We're going to talk about here we saber in a moment.
But what's your view of what the probably the sweet
spot is for the cash right three point se five
or something?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah, Look, I think I think anywhere between three and
four is helpful for most people. If you if I
layer that up and say where does my mortgage end
up or with does my cost of borrowing end up,
then I'm going to end up in the five five
and a halfs. And I think you know, we all
are aware that you know, rates have been very low
through COVID and so that credits are abnormal things, and
(06:50):
we've bounced back to the other side. So we've gone
from one side of the boat to the other side
of the boat term and so we've got to find
that middle ground. So yeah, I think I think if
in terms of consumers in New Zealand, if they've got
the confidence around the jobs and interest rates aren't going up,
it's okay. Similarly for businesses, and we're actually seeing this
in business surveys. They are starting to turn better in
(07:10):
US and we are seeing some green shoots, and we've
got to be careful with those green shoots aren't weeds,
but they are actually showing the right direction. So you know,
we've got a little bit to do globally. Globally. You know,
this week coming up on the on the eighteenth, the
US Visual Reserve as its last meeting before Christmas. Capital
(07:32):
markets are expecting another point two five percent cut and
that's interesting because they have I guess, gone from we're
not going to cut in a hurry to similar to
mister or we're going to have to cut quick. We're
going to recalibrate, recalibrate, so the word get back to normal.
So markets are expecting another half a percent next year
of great coats. What are we here? What does it
matter for you and I? Because that's where everything else
(07:55):
gets priced off. US government bond yw has influenced the
rest of the world, whether we like it or not.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Actually talking about the year that was, of course, in
the Trump presidency which is looming. The markets don't mind
a Trump presidency, do they.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Well, we've well, we yet to see.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
What we saw last time around twenty sixteen was market's
got very anxious going into the election, going through the election,
and in the early phases in particular terrorists. But what
the market really loves was deregulation Lower Texas, and we're
seeing as a bit of a two point zero similar pattern.
So sheer markets have run actually rallied, gone up about
(08:33):
four and a half percent since the election. We've obviously
got the inauguration coming up, and so the markets have
taken the good news ie deregulation. Potentially there's new doge
government organization.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
What's the dog? What's that again? Dog? What's that?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It's the government about getting rid of all the inefficiencies
in government, trying to strip out all a little bit
like it's one of the new new organizations in our
current government. And so that's breathing efficiencies in the government,
Government efficiency, Department of Government Efficiency. Sorry, that's exactly what
it's called. And so the capital markets like that.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
That.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
We have yet to see how the tariffs roll through.
Really interesting that the tariffs early on have been the
surprises have been Mexico Canada hit with tarifs that people expected,
and of course those governments have scrambled and they're working
quite hard to avoid those issues.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
But we're not the part of me wonders if that
this is just shooting the breeze really here. But part
of me wonders if the fact that it's Mexican and
Canada and the gun is one Trump's rhetoric around immigrants
in Mexico puts them in the gun naturally and on Canada,
I just recone. There's a fickle part of me that
wonders it's just because he can't stand Justin Trudeau.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
That's quite possible.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
That is possible. That is that possibly?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Do you think he is running very much? I think
you've heard a really important point here, Tim. He he
uses trade to negotiate other policy outcomes, and he's targeting
particularly drugs okhoids, and he's saying the borders to the
north and to the south letting a flow of drugs
and in particular, so he's saying, tight up your borders
(10:22):
and then we can all go.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Ahead and it's not a bad toll.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Is what do you think worked last time?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
It worked?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Last time he did in twenty sixteen with the Mexican government,
you know, tighten up your borders and then we can
all get back to it. So he obviously we know
mister Trump is an entrepreneur and he's prepared to use
trade as a leverage point.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Just one lucky last thing before we get on to
the cop saber thing. Was there any particular event in
twenty twenty four that had you sitting upright in bed
with a jolt type of thing?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Well, look, I think there's always things, you know, not
that all bad news breaks during the day, but I
was thinking, you know, the sort of thing that would
make it you suddenly go oh hell, what's you.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Know, what's going on? I don't know why I said
it was in bed. I think it's just because we've
been talking about giving a good night's sleep the hour
before with Alex Bartel. But anyway, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Well, I think, you know, good night sleeps really important
and for us as investors as even if it's really important. Look,
I think you know, some of the events in the
Middle East were you know, quite tense at various points,
and they had the potential to really spiral, So you
know some of that particular was Then what we know
is is investors, we have to measure the way we
(11:35):
respond to these sorts of events. They happen regularly, whether
we like it or not. It's not unusual. So you've
really got to put that cool hat back on your
head and say understand whether us are understand what it means,
but over time we won't. It won't be an issue
in the medium term. So yeah, there's always something to
make you get a little bit upset, and you've got
(11:56):
to put that, you know, the cool head back on
and say, yes, we can get through this.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Well, I guess and I did say it was like
your last question, but I slightly fibbed again. I have
previously during this show, just the what's the what are
the market's response to the events? Okay, we know what's
going on with the with Israel, and we see the Ukraine,
which is we don't know what's happening with that. But
now we see the government in Syria being unseated, we've
(12:21):
got rid of a really nasty regime. What do the
markets make of that, make of that? Does that impact
and how.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah, look, I've got to be honest with you. The
response was relevve muted. Well, obviously there was about what
does that do to disrupt oil prices in particular, and
of course what does that matter matters for inflation and
the risk that we get a big spike. Now that
hasn't happened. We've seen a pretty clear response from OPEK
(12:50):
maintaining production and offering to continue to offer it to
maintain production. But it is did create a little bit uncertainty.
Obviously we don't have all the answers yet. There's a
little way to go. But no, the markets that have
gotten through that we will always have something to focus
on and jump from to the next thing. And at
the moment, it's it's probably the focus is more a
(13:13):
bit more on who mister Trump appoints. In terms of
this government. There's still some elements that has the potential
to surprise so far that's putting less surprised than expected.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, well that's putting it. I mean there'll been more
surprises this time, I would suggest than this last administration.
But anyway, we'll just keep an eye on the headlines,
won't we. All right, as promised, let's get on the
let's got on toto our knitting. What we were going
to talk about. So the mb the Ministry of Business,
Innovation and Employment, recently said that the government's looking at
(13:43):
regulatory changes to enable key we savor providers to increase
private asset investments. It doesn't feel particularly controversial this but anyway, firstly,
what are private assets when it comes to investment.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Yeah, look, I think I think the fantastic point you're
making here is, you know, you, what's the big deal here?
Why is this method? It's actually quite a meaningful change
for us as investors. But then all of the key
Saver holders out there, and remember there's three and a
half million Key savers, we all have a stake in this.
You know, pretty much everybody in the country has a
(14:21):
has a stake in this. So what private assets are
that it's referred to assets that are not on the
public who traded market, So they're not the sort of
things you see in.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
This It's okay, right, yeah, because that's important to know
what it is because I just assumed it was that
up until now there been restrictions on you investing in
private you know, publicly listed companies yet privately you know,
they're owned by shareholders and stuff the government the government
being public. So yeah, carry on.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
So it's it's things like private equity where you invest
in businesses that are not listed on a stock exchange.
Things like property conclude office buildings, industrial warehouses, shopping walls, hospitals, schools. Wow,
did you want prastruction things? Like data centers, include things
like infrastructure stuff like transport projects when your energy developments,
(15:11):
and it can even include things like venture capital where
you are investing in startup, early stage companies that aren't
big enough ours aren't at a point where they justify
being listed on the sheer market. So yeah, it's a
it's a deeper wider pool potentially for qv servis to
invest in.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
So why have there been restrictions and why are they
looking at lifting them?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Yeah, so if you go back to why the currently
q saver members don't, we don't. If I get back
to what the current investment exposure is to private assets
within q savers, it's relatively low. It's two to three
percent of the pool. Pool is quite big. We're actually
giving the point where we're actually globally meaningful. It's about
(15:58):
one hundred and ten billion dollars. But most of that
pool is actually sitting in assets that we would see
on the ship market, government bonds, global shares. And what
we can see is that globally you see long term
funds in other countries they have more than ten percent
of their funds and private acts. And the reason that
(16:21):
we haven't had that here in New Zealand or one
of those.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So who has up to ten percent?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
This is the global comparable funds so right, Yeah, And
the reason why is because if I am a key
saber provider, then I have to be able to realize
sell those assets. Because you can move your keV saber
provider anytime you like. You can rock up to me
(16:49):
tomorrow and say it's been great shame, but I've actually
found somewhere else I want to go to, and within
a very short period of time I have to be
able to sell the acids and make them available to
where you're going to. So the new proposal is what
they do is they create it's been called a side pocket, which.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
It's fascinating actually because I've always wondered, you know, it's
not like if suddenly a bunch of people shift from
you know, whatever fund they're into another, then what does
that mean for the existing ownership stakes that you've got.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, yeah, And so if it means that if the
residual people with people that aren't moving, they if I
have to sell the assets down, I can't sell, Sorry,
we should get back to them. Probably the key one
here is it's harder.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
To sell private assets.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
I can sell shares today and have the money in
the bank within two to three days if they're listed
on a sheer market. I can't do that with private assets.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
That's what's actually is that actually what's happening when people
shift from one portfolio to another. That basically if they say, look,
I'm taking a key, we saber and I'll see you later.
I'm going to somewhere else, you actually have to sell
stuff to balance that out or.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
It's right, that's right really indeed, so we can't and
the having to modify adjust to allow for flows are
coming in. And of course the great thing here in
New Zeands we are seeing really healthy flows and the
zi honers I think have done a great job of
as we talked about earlier, going through a tough time
and thinking about you. But they're actually salting away capital
(18:22):
that will look after them well in the next ten
to twenty thirty years. And this is where these long
term assets come in. This is where they are covate
assets because they are have quite attractive characteristics. They can
deliver returns that are higher over the medium term than
being in the shoe markets, for example. But there's a catch,
and the catches I can't sell them, And so come
(18:45):
back to what this regulation means is what the government
is effectively saying is a proportion of these less liquid,
less easy to realize assets can be treated separately. So
if as a qusay the fund, you know a number
of people left the fund and I was left with
a bunch of these hard to sell assets, then I'd
(19:05):
be allowed to effectively run the fun with there's more
liquid assets. Currently, current regulation comes through on a regular basis, says,
so how quickly can you sell these assets? How quickly
can you turn them into cash so that tim beverage
can move from bread to ethel's fund management. That's that's
what we get measured on currently. So yeah, it's an
(19:26):
important regulation change to allow us to be able to
hold these are liquid long term assets.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
So what's a liquid long term asset?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Well, a liquid means I can't sell liquid, sorry, so
liquid would be my poor.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So there's got to be yeah, so hard to move.
So what Okay, I guess the reason that they're making
this change is because if other global investment funds are
managing ill liquid you know, private asset classes up to
ten percent, then there's a precedent elsewhere in much more
larger markets. For the sort of thing is that the
(20:08):
sort of justification for it that we can go further
because look, everyone else is.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
I don't even I think that's this one point. I
think you're right. But the other thing is to diversify risk.
What we see with these private assets is they can
often be in a different cycle from where they, say
shoes or other listed assets are, and so they can
have a different they have a different return profile from
(20:35):
publicly listed markets, so you might.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Have a different risks timing in other words.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, totally, totally. Indeed, So let's take, for example, a
toll road. Now nobody, you know, we don't have them
to the degree that we have another economies. But if
I'm in Australia, then I can invest in toll roads
that are around Sydney Melbourne Prison and that it historically
provided really good returns. But you have to be have.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
A long you've got to be in and to win early.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
In ten years. Yeah, and so it takes time. These
guys don't These assets don't produce cash straight away. They
can often have very lumpy cash flows. They need capital
spend on them so you can get ups and downs.
They're not immune to ups and downs, but they can
have a different cycle from the public traded market. So yeah,
you do need a long term timeframe when you're investing
(21:24):
in these because you can't sell long quickly Cora fascinating,
you can't pay them out.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, it's funny because when I saw we were going
to have a chat about the private assets, so I thought,
what's the big deal? But it's a lot more complex
than I thought. We're going to take a moment and
come back. We're talking with Shane sol If. He's a
director and portfolio manager and research analyst at Harbor Asset
Management around the change where can we save for fund
managers can invest in private assets being assets that aren't
(21:50):
actually that easy to sort of shift on a day
to day basis, if I could put it that crudely.
It's twenty eight and a half past five. You can
give us your thoughts on that if you've got any
questions for Shane, as I threw a bunch of questions
that we hadn't sort of thrown in the ledger before
the show, and he's all over it. So if you've
got any questions around your fund and the way it's
being managed and actually opinions about private asset investment for
(22:13):
key Wesaver funds and give us call o weight one
hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine two nine two.
It's now twenty nine past five News Talks. He'd b yes,
welcome back to the show. This is smart Money. My
guest is Shane Saley from harbor Asset Management. By the way,
if you want to check out the work that harbor
Asset do, and they manage a variety of funds and
they've got lots of interesting information on their on their website,
you can go to harbor Asset dot co dot n Z. So, yeah,
(22:38):
harbor Asset dot co dot NZ. Hey, Shane, I've got
a text about this. So we're talking about the ability
of key Wesaver providers to increase their private asset investments,
and somebody's text is saying, I'm paraphrasing what they've written
that they think it's a bad idea because there's going
to be key we Saver funds pumping money into the
(23:00):
domestic housing market and there's a cynical reason. They can
see some sort of conspiracy in there about landlords and
government wanting to restore their house prices. But putting that aside,
is that something that keisset sorry keep us saving providers
will be able to invest in.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, look, we don't know all that details you, but
it's a good question to ask. I think what we
are seeing is the potential to support build to rent developments,
for example build to sell, and that is something that
we have not seen a lot of from New Zealand
fund managers. It's an area that has yet to really evolve.
(23:40):
It's quite a big piece globally where you do have
fund managers owning large, for example, apartment blocks with the
effective your apartment blocks rather than individual homes. I think
you can't. I can't rule it out, but it's unlikely
that you will see fund managers going on buying individual
(24:00):
family homes for example, and pulling them together. They may
and the th larger effectively commercial enterprises rather than individual
home So yeah, I think it's a very valid point
that we do need to be careful that it doesn't
create unintended consequences. That's not probably the route that if
I managers are going to go the first initially, Yeah,
(24:22):
I can't rule it out.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, and I guess there's still a bit to be
threshed out with select committee processes and all that. Do
they have a select committee process for this at all?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Or is it just I don't know to be honest
with them, but I think, you know, it will run
a good due process and I think it's within the
regulation of the Minister to make this change.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Now.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I don't think they need to go there, but you know,
it is about opening up. You know, there is definitely
a need for better support of housing within New Zealand
in terms of making sure provisions.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So yeah, just quickly before we go to our first call,
I got a couple of callers there. Do you like
this move?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
I think it's a bit of a growing up, right.
We need to get broader in terms of the investment
universe for quit Savis. One of the things that we
do need to make sure the costs associated we're doing
it are reasonable, that the fees aren't too high and
so we deliver a good value proposition for investors. It's
not just keep your savers, but many people you can
(25:19):
currently invest in, for example private equity funds, and so
many of them have quite high fees. So I think
there is an opportunity to look at bringing in a
more cost affective way. So I think it is a
bit of a you know, we're getting big enough now
as an investment pool to actually step into this space,
and it does diversify risk over time.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
So it gives a little bit of flexibility to I
guess in terms of the limits that we've currently got.
So you might not want to go to ten percent
of what you're doing, but you might want to go
to four or five, I guess.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
For the right assets, for the right opportunities. And where
we've got this ability to I don't have to sell
everything within and give you the money back in three
days or in this particular pool, it does change things. Yeah,
it's helpful.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Okay, I've got lots of questions lined up, but a
to let some calls through, So Pat, Hello, Hey, yeah, hi,
oh hi there.
Speaker 6 (26:12):
I've just got a question about overseas funds.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yep.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
My dad had overseas funds when he was alive, and
I always just want to know how can you find
out if they're still.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
There And he invested in some overseas sort of investment
funds and you want to track them down.
Speaker 6 (26:33):
Yeah, I just want to know where you can inquire
if there's still money sitting. I think I don't know
whether it was in England. He might have had moneys
or Australia. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
So all you would have is his name and address
sort of thing, and you want to see what if
there's anything lurking that you might.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
Be able to sort out here, if there's anything still there,
because when he died, I don't remember my mother getting
any notification about overseas funds. And I mean he might
have already spent it because he yeah a new car
over a year and that might have been Oh.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
That's an interesting one. Actually, that might be a little
bit ab outside Shane Soley area of expertise. But there
must be money sloshing around in funds that has been
sort of lost because someone's passed away and nobody knows
where to track it down. Any advice there's Shane.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah, hey, thanks to your question. Pat. Look, I think
it's a really important point you raise. Firstly, if you
can dig around and find any documents that so there's
a great start. I'm sure you've tried that. One thing
I might you know it may be worth is to
reach out to a financial planner. There's some really good
financial planners here. If you just jump online and search
up financial planners in your area, they might be able
(27:46):
to go that extra mile and find out whether he
did have some uns overseas Australia, UK, whatever it may be,
it is worth hunting it down. But if you're going
to do that, you want to just make sure you
don't pay away too many fees, that you get the
structure right with the financial planners. Yeah, they won't. Unfortunately,
(28:07):
if you don't give them a death notice, they won't
make the payments out. They will still be sitting there.
Nothing would have happened to it. It will still be bubbling
away hopefully. And you know, he sounds like he's a
pretty cat man.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
So how many years do you think.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
If it'll just keep going if you don't give them
the notice that it'll just be there if he's so
you know this is the key, is it that the
funds don't wind up depending on what sort of fun
they don't end. I'll keep going depending on what he
was in and not knowing where he's at. But if
he was in some funds, they will just keep you
(28:42):
bubbling away.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Would have to reach an arrangement with a financial planner
that if they can track down the funds, there'd be
a percentage that they would earn as a finder's fee,
that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
That's right, and they look good, be able to help
your patent terms of you know, going through the search
process and it's it might take a bit of your time,
but look I'll give it a go.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah, thanks for your cor pat Actually, what percentage of
funds are sort of sitting in the never never because
the investor is deceased or you know whatever on awol?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Yeah, look, I think you know we I can't tell you, Sorry, Tim,
I don't know. We have to monitor, you know, when
people pass away. There's something that's on the list of
things to keep an eye on. Okay, and but yeah,
really important for families to talk about this stuff, to share,
to actually communicate this is what I'm doing and actually
(29:31):
give a bit of a plan as to where things are.
Can be very very stressful and very very time consuming
if you don't share, and things happen. And unfortunately it
doesn't matter whether you're ninety five or fifty five. Stuff happens.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah, exactly. Hey, look we need to take another moment.
We're back in just to tick. This is smart Money
News Talks B It's twenty one minutes to six. Yes,
welcome back to the show. This is a smart money
My guest is Shane Solly. We're talking about the change
which is going to enable key we Save providers to
increase private asset investments, in other words, investments that actually
can't be traded that easily. I think is a very
(30:08):
simple way to put it, doesn't it. Shane, Yeah, what
a quick question. I've got lots of questions actually, but
this one is about the investors, the people who who
are in key we saber. Will they be able to say,
have any say on their funds or choose a fund
that has a higher level of private asset investment.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah. Look, I think you know there is different types
of funds with their growth conservative, high growth, and so
what you will find is different types of funds within
the qbsaver pool have different exposures to qbserver. So if
there are a long term growth fund, for example, they'll
tend to have more than this our conservative fund. So
(30:54):
you can through the selection of what type of outcome.
And I think what we are seeing is there's potential
that you may actually see dedicated private capital type funds,
private asset phones come through in the mix, not saying
we're necessarily going to see them straight away, but you know,
in the medium ten it's a possibility, just as we
(31:15):
do see in some cases only share funes or only
funds they have predominant years in some cash.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Would would any particular key we save a fund to
end up with more than ten percent, say, of private
asset investment, or would that be sort of the top.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Quite possibly if we look at yeah, look, if we
look at some of the very large global funds, this
is the big sovereign wealth funds and so forth, they
can have up to twenty twenty five percent of their
funds or more in some cases. So it's not unusual.
But I think, you know, when we go back to
we've got to make sure that the value is there
(31:50):
for investors, that the fee structure is right. One thing
that's been challenging for private individuals to actually invest in
private asset funds, for example, is you actually need to
have a few dollars to make it work. You need
to have a reasonable dollar value to start with. So
it's not really hasn't been as accessible to everybody. This
actually makes it accessible to where we can all get
(32:12):
a little slice.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
It was it not as accessible as it will be
when it comes becomes part of key we sab.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Because at the moment, if you, if you and I
were to go to a private asset providers a right
but equity fund and so forth, generally the starting ticket
prices we probably need a couple of hundred thousand dollars
or fifty fifty to one hundred thousand dollars is kind
of the starting point. We're generally locked in for a
period of time. Team Mere. These funds are you've got
(32:41):
to be in here for three years, five years, seven years?
Is that sort of lock up period?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Are they?
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Are?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
They generally quite well performing funds. These sorts of classes.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
The same as everything. There's a bit of variance and
some have done stunningly well and some have done just.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Okay, what's stunningly well?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
You know, double digits you know through on a long
term basis, not just in any one year, because we've
going to be about focusing on the short term, which
is you know, one year or less. This is the
funds that can keep on year and year out adding
there you can really compound growing our wealth. You know,
this is that I make ten percent, and next year
I make ten percent, ten ten, ten, seven years, I
(33:20):
double my money if I make that sort of type
of return.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Just before we go to a next call, I've got
one last question. So if I'm in a fund, if
we if this this is going ahead, and we have
a fund that, say, has a high percentage of private asset.
In other words, there's a good chunk of it that
is illiquid. It's not that easy to move. What happens,
say I've got one hundred thousand dollars in key We say, well,
(33:43):
what happens when I say I want my money? What
mechanically do you do? Because you're not selling that long
term asset, So how do you actually mechanically handle that?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yeah, so we had we would have other assets in
the pool, right, we'd have cash, Yeah, literally, term deposits,
government bonds, we'd have some shares, and those things allow
us to for you to move forward, to take your
money out. And when you turned over sixty five time,
you've got a bit of time to go. You need
to rush there. And so that's what this liquid piece,
(34:16):
this is the piece that can be easily realized, easily
turned into cash.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
So you can use part of the fund and hang
on to that and then units right and hopefully I guess,
I guess in reality, you've got people coming and going
all the time, and so the outward traffic hopefully is
met a little bit by inward traffic. And you're not
really making ten percent adjustments in your portfolio, are you.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
That's that's the hope. Obviously, timing can be a little
bit of risk. But this is why this proposed change
is so important to give Kiwisaver funds the flexibility to
deal with periods of time when they can't match things off.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Cour Right, let's take another court. I think this might
be slightly on a slightly parallel topic here, but George today, Yeah, Hi.
Speaker 5 (34:57):
This is something that this is a problem with Kiwi
say that may, if not already be a ficking an
awful lot of peace. Who don't know it exists. My
daughter has had kiwisaber for quite a long time, and
she decided it was time to buy or get herself
a house.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Ye, So she used a kiwisaver for that yep.
Speaker 5 (35:17):
No, she used a Kiwi saver as a deposit for
the section yep. And then she's going to look for
the proper the house to put on it. She got
the house, she got the section, okay, no problem. And
then she chose the house that she wanted to put
on it and kew, Saber, you've already got your first home.
You can't have any further money.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Oh so she didn't use all her Kiwi Saber.
Speaker 5 (35:40):
No, no, no, she only used enough that she needed
to do to get the pstriction.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (35:45):
Now she's gone a year later or whatever to put
the house on the property that she now owns, and
they have said, no, you already have a property, you
already have your first home. You can't have any further
funds for property development.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
That sounds like that.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
That really stinks, because she hasn't got a house. That
she hasn't got a home, and she hasn't got a home.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
That does sound like something you could argue it might
be outside Shane Solly's area of sort of expertise, I'm guessing, Shane.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
But have you got told within the v Shaw to
act and it's law?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Oh yeah, yeah, but you can't have shame. You can
chip in here on whether you can offer any help
on this. George, hang on, we've got your picture of hounds.
Shane over to you.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
No, no, no, thanks. Firstly, thanks George, you know I
don't I don't know all the details. Unfortunately, sorry I
can't help you. But in terms of the details, but
it is set up there for the first time. The
definition of first time, you'd have to go back to
you to your daughter's QV saver provider and ask, you know,
what exactly does that mean. I do know that you
can't sort of have two cracks in it. So maybe
that's the technical piece. Yeah, because give it a go.
(36:48):
It's talking to them.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, because it is does seem strange because she basically
borrowed part for the section, but she hasn't got the
home yet. That's the start, and the mistake was probably
not taking it all out at once, I guess.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
But the good news it's still growing, George, that wealthy
is still sitting there when she can tap into it.
But I think what you've just raised is another point
that a qsaver is a very helpful investment platform, but
it shouldn't be the only thing, because you know, we
want to accumulate for things like cars and holidays and
(37:20):
houses and stuff, and you want to tap into that,
so you know, we reckon. We think that it makes
sense to have your kisaber and other things so not
all your money ends up in keysaber. It's a fantastic
way to go for most people because it actually forces
them to save that it's pretty hard when you you know,
when you've got that, can I tap into it? If
you can't, then you're forced to hang onto it and
(37:40):
come sixty five. That will be a pretty helpful boast.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
That is worth remembering that if you are, Yeah that
if you're a key saber investor and you want to
actually save some more, it doesn't need to go into
a keV saber. You can actually go to you guys,
if you're with harbor Asset and say what are the funds?
Can I stick my money in? Because they're doing the
same sort of job, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Yeah, many cases you can get basically a mirror of
the kiwisaver, but it's not locked up until you're ten
sixty five available that Hey, I've decided I want to
get my hip done, i want to get going to
a trip, or I'm going to help out the kids,
whatever the case may be, and you can access their cash.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Good advice actually worth remembering that, so instead of adding
to just to your key we Saver up in your contributions,
look at another fund that might be actually identical. But
then you've got a bit more flexibility. Nine minutes to six,
News Talk said b Yes, News Talk said be this
is smart Money with Tim beveris just about near the
end of the show. Actually you had time was run
out pretty quickly on us. But one last question for
(38:34):
Shane Sally is how I've investors react to this announcement
that's going to be a higher level of private asset
investment from key we Saver funds.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
I think you pretty positively. But it's thirty days and
we've got it. We've got to know the rules, we've
got to know what's in, what's out, and so yeah,
I think there's definitely a bit of constructive let's let's
get their rules and move forward. So it's a good move.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Do they consult with you guys.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
You know, there's been some good, healthy discussions. You know,
the industry is being certainly a government and industry been
talking a lot on this. It's a good move.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Excellent. Hey, Shane, this is our last appearance for the
year with you guys from Harborracent Management. Just want to say,
you know, thanks so much for you for being on
the show this year and for your insight. You got
anything exciting plan for for Christmas or Goosey?
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Thanks Tim. We really love being part of your team
and your show. No looking forward to having a great
festive season with the family and and keeping out of
trouble with people doing things.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
You When are you back into it? What do you
ever take a holiday? Do you ever take a holiday? Shane?
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I have to take a
whole I have to go to reach out to the
batteries now back in early January, so back into it
pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
There's not those links on you. There's not those links
on your phone to the financial news where you're just like,
how my honey, I just got to read this thing here,
like get off that bloom and phone.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
He's a bit of that.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Good on you. Well, hey, thanks so much. Give give
our best wishes to Chris and Andrew and the rest
of the team there as well, and have a merry Christmas.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Be specious for the festive season.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
It cheers, mate. There we go. That wraps Smart Money
and the show Sunday at six is next. We'll have
one more weekend collective next weekend and then we're into
slightly different schedule and things. So thanks for your company.
Check out the podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts, it's
dis iHeartRadio. Just look for the Weekend Collective. Sunday at
(40:30):
six is next. I think this might be a little
bit of Dean Martin to hit out with. I think
it is. Indeed, have a great evening. Catch us soon
when we're finally kissed.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Good night.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Our keep it all hour in the storm. But if
you really hold times all the way home, are they
warm and the fire is slowed?
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Day and my DearS.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news Talks.
It'd be weekends from three pm all FLL of the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News talks'd
be and.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the show on
Tim Beverage the Weekend Collective. Now, by the way, if
you've missed any of the conversations, I've covered a lot
of ground with Alex Bartle around the whole sleep thing,
from well from the serotonin sort of thing and restless
legs to ways to get to sleep and insomnia and
all that sort of stuff. So if you've got if
you'd like to have a listen to that, you can
(00:31):
go and check out our podcast on the Weekend Collective
on iHeartRadio. Likewise, with politics, we interviewed Simon Watts. They've
made an announcement around making it easier to get hydrogen
going as a powersource around New Zealand and the regulatory
changes that'll enable that and to make hydrogen more energy
(00:53):
more easily accessible. And also Fitzsimmons was the solicitor of
the pso we had to chat with them about whether
about the whole work from home thing for public servants.
But right now it is time for Smart Money and
our final appearance this year and hopefully we'll just carry
on the same again next year as well. He is
a direct and portfolio manager and research analyst at Harbor
(01:16):
Asset Management. It's quite a mouthful on the business card,
isn't it? And it's Shane Sally Gido Shane, how are
you going atim?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I'm well, I'm well.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
What do you say when you meet someone for the
first time and they say what do you do? You
don't say I'm portfolio manager and research analyst at Harbor
Asset Management?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Or do you I say I'm a fund manager. I
manage you know, people's hard earned cash. Do they want
to grow and protect? Best? What I tell them? I do?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
How many have you been doing it for?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I've been doing it prayer for thirty years and it's
always interesting. There's for sure, always something new coming along.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's funny actually because we haven't met, although we're on Zoom.
But obviously you've said you've been in the business for
thirty years, so you're not an engine. It's funny how
people this is completely unrelated to money, but I assume
when I first spoke to you that you were probably
about thirty two. I don't know why I thought, oh,
here's the young fella from Harbor asset management.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I wish there was a young fever that's special.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Hey, just before we get into the changes on key
we saber investments and things. I thought, you know, given
it's we've enjoyed having a chat with you guys over
the past year about money. What are the what are
the things that stand out to you about the investment
landscape and the money stories of twenty twenty four that
(02:28):
maybe we've learned some lessons from or you reflect on
you just think, Wow, that was interesting, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Well. I think it's a really important point you raised.
I think there's a lot of people that would have
been very nervous this year in terms of what their
investment funds might have done it you think about the
ongoing geopolitical unrest we have. We've got several wars still
going on around the world, We've had a major transition
of the US government. And what we've seen through all
(02:54):
this is actually investment markets have delivered pretty good returns.
I think when people open up their QIsab or their
investment funds after the end of the December month and
quarter year, I think they're going to be reasonably comfortable
that it's been a positive year. Some assets one doubtedly
have done better. And you've got to come back to
the basics as to why and why have things done okay,
(03:16):
And it's been about inflation. There's inflation battle that are
you know, seeing the central banks have been having to
go at for the last two three years post COVID.
We're finally seeing inflation getting back to more reasonable level.
Is it still got a little way to go? You know,
we're still three percentish and I think you want, you know,
most central banks to targeting at two percentish? Why to
(03:40):
tows a level where most people can at least plan for,
deal with and really manage their home lives and their
businesses with it. So interest rates have come down globally,
you've seen central banks cutting interest rates from quite high
levels to try and get on top of inflation, slow
the economies down, create some room. And what we've seen
(04:01):
is even here locally, we've seen a couple of interest
rate cuts that have been slowly higher than expected, and
that's been a positive. It's certainly been helpful for people
that are investing in a long term government bond yards
and remember that's kind of the StarPoint good for shear
markets globally, we've seen some very strong performance led by
the US, led by unique set of companies. You know,
(04:21):
this magnificent seven continues to charge and so everybody else
doesn't look so good. But actually, on an average year,
we would look pretty good. New Zealand shar market up
over eight percent, eight and a half percent year to date.
That's a pretty good year. That's a normal year, so
we good little way to go. Inflation is still sort
of bouncing around but is trending down, so we will
(04:42):
see some more cuts by the central banks. The pace
might be different. So it's actually been a pretty good year.
So actually, looking back.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I was thinking that that one of the people who
were surprised at how at the at the cuts was
Adrian or circa March this year, because I remember that
I think he was talking about not lowering until sometime
in March next year. But of course now we've seen
obviously his monetary policy. You had carried more of a clout.
What are we down to now? Four point twenty five?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Is it? That's right? That's right?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And you said, did you indicate in your comments there
that central banks really that did you say something we're
beginning with a two or something in terms.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Of are well, that's we're that's we're they're targeting inflation.
Remember this is the band too. But look, I think
you know, can official cash rates get down to something
like a too, you know, with a two in front
of it? Yeah, they could, but yeah, we're going to
be careful what we wish for, right, you know, they're
only going to go there if the economy really needs
that extra boost in the risk in our part of
(05:40):
the world, in New Zealand, because it's about unemployment. So
if unemployment gets to you know, we're up to the
high five sixes, then maybe you see interest official cash rates.
Remembering this is the start point for where we pay mortgages,
where we borrow as businesses, so you know that is
the start point. You know, we could get in below
three percent, but it may only be if we've got
(06:02):
this challenging employment. As you know, I don't want that, right,
I don't you know, we want we don't want people
being out of work and struggling to pay their bills.
But it is possible, It is possible. We're still seeing
a number of business in New Zealand downside.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Then what what do you think though? I mean, I
know this is not necessarily what we're slated to talk about.
We're going to talk about here we saber in a moment.
But what's your view of what the probably the sweet
spot is for the cash right three point se five
or something?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah, Look, I think I think anywhere between three and
four is helpful for most people. If you if I
layer that up and say where does my mortgage end
up or with does my cost of borrowing end up,
then I'm going to end up in the five five
and a halfs. And I think you know, we all
are aware that you know, rates have been very low
through COVID and so that credits are abnormal things, and
(06:50):
we've bounced back to the other side. So we've gone
from one side of the boat to the other side
of the boat term and so we've got to find
that middle ground. So yeah, I think I think if
in terms of consumers in New Zealand, if they've got
the confidence around the jobs and interest rates aren't going up,
it's okay. Similarly for businesses, and we're actually seeing this
in business surveys. They are starting to turn better in
(07:10):
US and we are seeing some green shoots, and we've
got to be careful with those green shoots aren't weeds,
but they are actually showing the right direction. So you know,
we've got a little bit to do globally. Globally. You know,
this week coming up on the on the eighteenth, the
US Visual Reserve as its last meeting before Christmas. Capital
(07:32):
markets are expecting another point two five percent cut and
that's interesting because they have I guess, gone from we're
not going to cut in a hurry to similar to
mister or we're going to have to cut quick. We're
going to recalibrate, recalibrate, so the word get back to normal.
So markets are expecting another half a percent next year
of great coats. What are we here? What does it
matter for you and I? Because that's where everything else
(07:55):
gets priced off. US government bond yw has influenced the
rest of the world, whether we like it or not.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Actually talking about the year that was, of course, in
the Trump presidency which is looming. The markets don't mind
a Trump presidency, do they.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Well, we've well, we yet to see.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
What we saw last time around twenty sixteen was market's
got very anxious going into the election, going through the election,
and in the early phases in particular terrorists. But what
the market really loves was deregulation Lower Texas, and we're
seeing as a bit of a two point zero similar pattern.
So sheer markets have run actually rallied, gone up about
(08:33):
four and a half percent since the election. We've obviously
got the inauguration coming up, and so the markets have
taken the good news ie deregulation. Potentially there's new doge
government organization.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
What's the dog? What's that again? Dog? What's that?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It's the government about getting rid of all the inefficiencies
in government, trying to strip out all a little bit
like it's one of the new new organizations in our
current government. And so that's breathing efficiencies in the government,
Government efficiency, Department of Government Efficiency. Sorry, that's exactly what
it's called. And so the capital markets like that.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
That.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
We have yet to see how the tariffs roll through.
Really interesting that the tariffs early on have been the
surprises have been Mexico Canada hit with tarifs that people expected,
and of course those governments have scrambled and they're working
quite hard to avoid those issues.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
But we're not the part of me wonders if that
this is just shooting the breeze really here. But part
of me wonders if the fact that it's Mexican and
Canada and the gun is one Trump's rhetoric around immigrants
in Mexico puts them in the gun naturally and on Canada,
I just recone. There's a fickle part of me that
wonders it's just because he can't stand Justin Trudeau.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
That's quite possible.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
That is possible. That is that possibly?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Do you think he is running very much? I think
you've heard a really important point here, Tim. He he
uses trade to negotiate other policy outcomes, and he's targeting
particularly drugs okhoids, and he's saying the borders to the
north and to the south letting a flow of drugs
and in particular, so he's saying, tight up your borders
(10:22):
and then we can all go.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Ahead and it's not a bad toll.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Is what do you think worked last time?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
It worked?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Last time he did in twenty sixteen with the Mexican government,
you know, tighten up your borders and then we can
all get back to it. So he obviously we know
mister Trump is an entrepreneur and he's prepared to use
trade as a leverage point.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Just one lucky last thing before we get on to
the cop saber thing. Was there any particular event in
twenty twenty four that had you sitting upright in bed
with a jolt type of thing?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Well, look, I think there's always things, you know, not
that all bad news breaks during the day, but I
was thinking, you know, the sort of thing that would
make it you suddenly go oh hell, what's you.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Know, what's going on? I don't know why I said
it was in bed. I think it's just because we've
been talking about giving a good night's sleep the hour
before with Alex Bartel. But anyway, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Well, I think, you know, good night sleeps really important
and for us as investors as even if it's really important. Look,
I think you know, some of the events in the
Middle East were you know, quite tense at various points,
and they had the potential to really spiral, So you
know some of that particular was Then what we know
is is investors, we have to measure the way we
(11:35):
respond to these sorts of events. They happen regularly, whether
we like it or not. It's not unusual. So you've
really got to put that cool hat back on your
head and say understand whether us are understand what it means,
but over time we won't. It won't be an issue
in the medium term. So yeah, there's always something to
make you get a little bit upset, and you've got
(11:56):
to put that, you know, the cool head back on
and say, yes, we can get through this.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Well, I guess and I did say it was like
your last question, but I slightly fibbed again. I have
previously during this show, just the what's the what are
the market's response to the events? Okay, we know what's
going on with the with Israel, and we see the Ukraine,
which is we don't know what's happening with that. But
now we see the government in Syria being unseated, we've
(12:21):
got rid of a really nasty regime. What do the
markets make of that, make of that? Does that impact
and how.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah, look, I've got to be honest with you. The
response was relevve muted. Well, obviously there was about what
does that do to disrupt oil prices in particular, and
of course what does that matter matters for inflation and
the risk that we get a big spike. Now that
hasn't happened. We've seen a pretty clear response from OPEK
(12:50):
maintaining production and offering to continue to offer it to
maintain production. But it is did create a little bit uncertainty.
Obviously we don't have all the answers yet. There's a
little way to go. But no, the markets that have
gotten through that we will always have something to focus
on and jump from to the next thing. And at
the moment, it's it's probably the focus is more a
(13:13):
bit more on who mister Trump appoints. In terms of
this government. There's still some elements that has the potential
to surprise so far that's putting less surprised than expected.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, well that's putting it. I mean there'll been more
surprises this time, I would suggest than this last administration.
But anyway, we'll just keep an eye on the headlines,
won't we. All right, as promised, let's get on the
let's got on toto our knitting. What we were going
to talk about. So the mb the Ministry of Business,
Innovation and Employment, recently said that the government's looking at
(13:43):
regulatory changes to enable key we savor providers to increase
private asset investments. It doesn't feel particularly controversial this but anyway, firstly,
what are private assets when it comes to investment.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Yeah, look, I think I think the fantastic point you're
making here is, you know, you, what's the big deal here?
Why is this method? It's actually quite a meaningful change
for us as investors. But then all of the key
Saver holders out there, and remember there's three and a
half million Key savers, we all have a stake in this.
You know, pretty much everybody in the country has a
(14:21):
has a stake in this. So what private assets are
that it's referred to assets that are not on the
public who traded market, So they're not the sort of
things you see in.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
This It's okay, right, yeah, because that's important to know
what it is because I just assumed it was that
up until now there been restrictions on you investing in
private you know, publicly listed companies yet privately you know,
they're owned by shareholders and stuff the government the government
being public. So yeah, carry on.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
So it's it's things like private equity where you invest
in businesses that are not listed on a stock exchange.
Things like property conclude office buildings, industrial warehouses, shopping walls, hospitals, schools. Wow,
did you want prastruction things? Like data centers, include things
like infrastructure stuff like transport projects when your energy developments,
(15:11):
and it can even include things like venture capital where
you are investing in startup, early stage companies that aren't
big enough ours aren't at a point where they justify
being listed on the sheer market. So yeah, it's a
it's a deeper wider pool potentially for qv servis to
invest in.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
So why have there been restrictions and why are they
looking at lifting them?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Yeah, so if you go back to why the currently
q saver members don't, we don't. If I get back
to what the current investment exposure is to private assets
within q savers, it's relatively low. It's two to three
percent of the pool. Pool is quite big. We're actually
giving the point where we're actually globally meaningful. It's about
(15:58):
one hundred and ten billion dollars. But most of that
pool is actually sitting in assets that we would see
on the ship market, government bonds, global shares. And what
we can see is that globally you see long term
funds in other countries they have more than ten percent
of their funds and private acts. And the reason that
(16:21):
we haven't had that here in New Zealand or one
of those.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So who has up to ten percent?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
This is the global comparable funds so right, Yeah, And
the reason why is because if I am a key
saber provider, then I have to be able to realize
sell those assets. Because you can move your keV saber
provider anytime you like. You can rock up to me
(16:49):
tomorrow and say it's been great shame, but I've actually
found somewhere else I want to go to, and within
a very short period of time I have to be
able to sell the acids and make them available to
where you're going to. So the new proposal is what
they do is they create it's been called a side pocket, which.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
It's fascinating actually because I've always wondered, you know, it's
not like if suddenly a bunch of people shift from
you know, whatever fund they're into another, then what does
that mean for the existing ownership stakes that you've got.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, yeah, And so if it means that if the
residual people with people that aren't moving, they if I
have to sell the assets down, I can't sell, Sorry,
we should get back to them. Probably the key one
here is it's harder.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
To sell private assets.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
I can sell shares today and have the money in
the bank within two to three days if they're listed
on a sheer market. I can't do that with private assets.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
That's what's actually is that actually what's happening when people
shift from one portfolio to another. That basically if they say, look,
I'm taking a key, we saber and I'll see you later.
I'm going to somewhere else, you actually have to sell
stuff to balance that out or.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
It's right, that's right really indeed, so we can't and
the having to modify adjust to allow for flows are
coming in. And of course the great thing here in
New Zeands we are seeing really healthy flows and the
zi honers I think have done a great job of
as we talked about earlier, going through a tough time
and thinking about you. But they're actually salting away capital
(18:22):
that will look after them well in the next ten
to twenty thirty years. And this is where these long
term assets come in. This is where they are covate
assets because they are have quite attractive characteristics. They can
deliver returns that are higher over the medium term than
being in the shoe markets, for example. But there's a catch,
and the catches I can't sell them, And so come
(18:45):
back to what this regulation means is what the government
is effectively saying is a proportion of these less liquid,
less easy to realize assets can be treated separately. So
if as a qusay the fund, you know a number
of people left the fund and I was left with
a bunch of these hard to sell assets, then I'd
(19:05):
be allowed to effectively run the fun with there's more
liquid assets. Currently, current regulation comes through on a regular basis, says,
so how quickly can you sell these assets? How quickly
can you turn them into cash so that tim beverage
can move from bread to ethel's fund management. That's that's
what we get measured on currently. So yeah, it's an
(19:26):
important regulation change to allow us to be able to
hold these are liquid long term assets.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
So what's a liquid long term asset?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Well, a liquid means I can't sell liquid, sorry, so
liquid would be my poor.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So there's got to be yeah, so hard to move.
So what Okay, I guess the reason that they're making
this change is because if other global investment funds are
managing ill liquid you know, private asset classes up to
ten percent, then there's a precedent elsewhere in much more
larger markets. For the sort of thing is that the
(20:08):
sort of justification for it that we can go further
because look, everyone else is.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
I don't even I think that's this one point. I
think you're right. But the other thing is to diversify risk.
What we see with these private assets is they can
often be in a different cycle from where they, say
shoes or other listed assets are, and so they can
have a different they have a different return profile from
(20:35):
publicly listed markets, so you might.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Have a different risks timing in other words.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, totally, totally. Indeed, So let's take, for example, a
toll road. Now nobody, you know, we don't have them
to the degree that we have another economies. But if
I'm in Australia, then I can invest in toll roads
that are around Sydney Melbourne Prison and that it historically
provided really good returns. But you have to be have.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
A long you've got to be in and to win early.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
In ten years. Yeah, and so it takes time. These
guys don't These assets don't produce cash straight away. They
can often have very lumpy cash flows. They need capital
spend on them so you can get ups and downs.
They're not immune to ups and downs, but they can
have a different cycle from the public traded market. So yeah,
you do need a long term timeframe when you're investing
(21:24):
in these because you can't sell long quickly Cora fascinating,
you can't pay them out.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, it's funny because when I saw we were going
to have a chat about the private assets, so I thought,
what's the big deal? But it's a lot more complex
than I thought. We're going to take a moment and
come back. We're talking with Shane sol If. He's a
director and portfolio manager and research analyst at Harbor Asset
Management around the change where can we save for fund
managers can invest in private assets being assets that aren't
(21:50):
actually that easy to sort of shift on a day
to day basis, if I could put it that crudely.
It's twenty eight and a half past five. You can
give us your thoughts on that if you've got any
questions for Shane, as I threw a bunch of questions
that we hadn't sort of thrown in the ledger before
the show, and he's all over it. So if you've
got any questions around your fund and the way it's
being managed and actually opinions about private asset investment for
(22:13):
key Wesaver funds and give us call o weight one
hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine two nine two.
It's now twenty nine past five News Talks. He'd b yes,
welcome back to the show. This is smart Money. My
guest is Shane Saley from harbor Asset Management. By the way,
if you want to check out the work that harbor
Asset do, and they manage a variety of funds and
they've got lots of interesting information on their on their website,
you can go to harbor Asset dot co dot n Z. So, yeah,
(22:38):
harbor Asset dot co dot NZ. Hey, Shane, I've got
a text about this. So we're talking about the ability
of key Wesaver providers to increase their private asset investments,
and somebody's text is saying, I'm paraphrasing what they've written
that they think it's a bad idea because there's going
to be key we Saver funds pumping money into the
(23:00):
domestic housing market and there's a cynical reason. They can
see some sort of conspiracy in there about landlords and
government wanting to restore their house prices. But putting that aside,
is that something that keisset sorry keep us saving providers
will be able to invest in.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, look, we don't know all that details you, but
it's a good question to ask. I think what we
are seeing is the potential to support build to rent developments,
for example build to sell, and that is something that
we have not seen a lot of from New Zealand
fund managers. It's an area that has yet to really evolve.
(23:40):
It's quite a big piece globally where you do have
fund managers owning large, for example, apartment blocks with the
effective your apartment blocks rather than individual homes. I think
you can't. I can't rule it out, but it's unlikely
that you will see fund managers going on buying individual
(24:00):
family homes for example, and pulling them together. They may
and the th larger effectively commercial enterprises rather than individual
home So yeah, I think it's a very valid point
that we do need to be careful that it doesn't
create unintended consequences. That's not probably the route that if
I managers are going to go the first initially, Yeah,
(24:22):
I can't rule it out.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, and I guess there's still a bit to be
threshed out with select committee processes and all that. Do
they have a select committee process for this at all?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Or is it just I don't know to be honest
with them, but I think, you know, it will run
a good due process and I think it's within the
regulation of the Minister to make this change.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Now.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I don't think they need to go there, but you know,
it is about opening up. You know, there is definitely
a need for better support of housing within New Zealand
in terms of making sure provisions.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So yeah, just quickly before we go to our first call,
I got a couple of callers there. Do you like
this move?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
I think it's a bit of a growing up, right.
We need to get broader in terms of the investment
universe for quit Savis. One of the things that we
do need to make sure the costs associated we're doing
it are reasonable, that the fees aren't too high and
so we deliver a good value proposition for investors. It's
not just keep your savers, but many people you can
(25:19):
currently invest in, for example private equity funds, and so
many of them have quite high fees. So I think
there is an opportunity to look at bringing in a
more cost affective way. So I think it is a
bit of a you know, we're getting big enough now
as an investment pool to actually step into this space,
and it does diversify risk over time.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
So it gives a little bit of flexibility to I
guess in terms of the limits that we've currently got.
So you might not want to go to ten percent
of what you're doing, but you might want to go
to four or five, I guess.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
For the right assets, for the right opportunities. And where
we've got this ability to I don't have to sell
everything within and give you the money back in three
days or in this particular pool, it does change things. Yeah,
it's helpful.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Okay, I've got lots of questions lined up, but a
to let some calls through, So Pat, Hello, Hey, yeah, hi,
oh hi there.
Speaker 6 (26:12):
I've just got a question about overseas funds.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yep.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
My dad had overseas funds when he was alive, and
I always just want to know how can you find
out if they're still.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
There And he invested in some overseas sort of investment
funds and you want to track them down.
Speaker 6 (26:33):
Yeah, I just want to know where you can inquire
if there's still money sitting. I think I don't know
whether it was in England. He might have had moneys
or Australia. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
So all you would have is his name and address
sort of thing, and you want to see what if
there's anything lurking that you might.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
Be able to sort out here, if there's anything still there,
because when he died, I don't remember my mother getting
any notification about overseas funds. And I mean he might
have already spent it because he yeah a new car
over a year and that might have been Oh.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
That's an interesting one. Actually, that might be a little
bit ab outside Shane Soley area of expertise. But there
must be money sloshing around in funds that has been
sort of lost because someone's passed away and nobody knows
where to track it down. Any advice there's Shane.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah, hey, thanks to your question. Pat. Look, I think
it's a really important point you raise. Firstly, if you
can dig around and find any documents that so there's
a great start. I'm sure you've tried that. One thing
I might you know it may be worth is to
reach out to a financial planner. There's some really good
financial planners here. If you just jump online and search
up financial planners in your area, they might be able
(27:46):
to go that extra mile and find out whether he
did have some uns overseas Australia, UK, whatever it may be,
it is worth hunting it down. But if you're going
to do that, you want to just make sure you
don't pay away too many fees, that you get the
structure right with the financial planners. Yeah, they won't. Unfortunately,
(28:07):
if you don't give them a death notice, they won't
make the payments out. They will still be sitting there.
Nothing would have happened to it. It will still be bubbling
away hopefully. And you know, he sounds like he's a
pretty cat man.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
So how many years do you think.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
If it'll just keep going if you don't give them
the notice that it'll just be there if he's so
you know this is the key, is it that the
funds don't wind up depending on what sort of fun
they don't end. I'll keep going depending on what he
was in and not knowing where he's at. But if
he was in some funds, they will just keep you
(28:42):
bubbling away.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Would have to reach an arrangement with a financial planner
that if they can track down the funds, there'd be
a percentage that they would earn as a finder's fee,
that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
That's right, and they look good, be able to help
your patent terms of you know, going through the search
process and it's it might take a bit of your time,
but look I'll give it a go.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah, thanks for your cor pat Actually, what percentage of
funds are sort of sitting in the never never because
the investor is deceased or you know whatever on awol?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Yeah, look, I think you know we I can't tell you, Sorry, Tim,
I don't know. We have to monitor, you know, when
people pass away. There's something that's on the list of
things to keep an eye on. Okay, and but yeah,
really important for families to talk about this stuff, to share,
to actually communicate this is what I'm doing and actually
(29:31):
give a bit of a plan as to where things are.
Can be very very stressful and very very time consuming
if you don't share, and things happen. And unfortunately it
doesn't matter whether you're ninety five or fifty five. Stuff happens.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah, exactly. Hey, look we need to take another moment.
We're back in just to tick. This is smart Money
News Talks B It's twenty one minutes to six. Yes,
welcome back to the show. This is a smart money
My guest is Shane Solly. We're talking about the change
which is going to enable key we Save providers to
increase private asset investments, in other words, investments that actually
can't be traded that easily. I think is a very
(30:08):
simple way to put it, doesn't it. Shane, Yeah, what
a quick question. I've got lots of questions actually, but
this one is about the investors, the people who who
are in key we saber. Will they be able to say,
have any say on their funds or choose a fund
that has a higher level of private asset investment.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah. Look, I think you know there is different types
of funds with their growth conservative, high growth, and so
what you will find is different types of funds within
the qbsaver pool have different exposures to qbserver. So if
there are a long term growth fund, for example, they'll
tend to have more than this our conservative fund. So
(30:54):
you can through the selection of what type of outcome.
And I think what we are seeing is there's potential
that you may actually see dedicated private capital type funds,
private asset phones come through in the mix, not saying
we're necessarily going to see them straight away, but you know,
in the medium ten it's a possibility, just as we
(31:15):
do see in some cases only share funes or only
funds they have predominant years in some cash.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Would would any particular key we save a fund to
end up with more than ten percent, say, of private
asset investment, or would that be sort of the top.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Quite possibly if we look at yeah, look, if we
look at some of the very large global funds, this
is the big sovereign wealth funds and so forth, they
can have up to twenty twenty five percent of their
funds or more in some cases. So it's not unusual.
But I think, you know, when we go back to
we've got to make sure that the value is there
(31:50):
for investors, that the fee structure is right. One thing
that's been challenging for private individuals to actually invest in
private asset funds, for example, is you actually need to
have a few dollars to make it work. You need
to have a reasonable dollar value to start with. So
it's not really hasn't been as accessible to everybody. This
actually makes it accessible to where we can all get
(32:12):
a little slice.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
It was it not as accessible as it will be
when it comes becomes part of key we sab.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Because at the moment, if you, if you and I
were to go to a private asset providers a right
but equity fund and so forth, generally the starting ticket
prices we probably need a couple of hundred thousand dollars
or fifty fifty to one hundred thousand dollars is kind
of the starting point. We're generally locked in for a
period of time. Team Mere. These funds are you've got
(32:41):
to be in here for three years, five years, seven years?
Is that sort of lock up period?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Are they?
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Are?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
They generally quite well performing funds. These sorts of classes.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
The same as everything. There's a bit of variance and
some have done stunningly well and some have done just.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Okay, what's stunningly well?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
You know, double digits you know through on a long
term basis, not just in any one year, because we've
going to be about focusing on the short term, which
is you know, one year or less. This is the
funds that can keep on year and year out adding
there you can really compound growing our wealth. You know,
this is that I make ten percent, and next year
I make ten percent, ten ten, ten, seven years, I
(33:20):
double my money if I make that sort of type
of return.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Just before we go to a next call, I've got
one last question. So if I'm in a fund, if
we if this this is going ahead, and we have
a fund that, say, has a high percentage of private asset.
In other words, there's a good chunk of it that
is illiquid. It's not that easy to move. What happens,
say I've got one hundred thousand dollars in key We say, well,
(33:43):
what happens when I say I want my money? What
mechanically do you do? Because you're not selling that long
term asset, So how do you actually mechanically handle that?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yeah, so we had we would have other assets in
the pool, right, we'd have cash, Yeah, literally, term deposits,
government bonds, we'd have some shares, and those things allow
us to for you to move forward, to take your
money out. And when you turned over sixty five time,
you've got a bit of time to go. You need
to rush there. And so that's what this liquid piece,
(34:16):
this is the piece that can be easily realized, easily
turned into cash.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
So you can use part of the fund and hang
on to that and then units right and hopefully I guess,
I guess in reality, you've got people coming and going
all the time, and so the outward traffic hopefully is
met a little bit by inward traffic. And you're not
really making ten percent adjustments in your portfolio, are you.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
That's that's the hope. Obviously, timing can be a little
bit of risk. But this is why this proposed change
is so important to give Kiwisaver funds the flexibility to
deal with periods of time when they can't match things off.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Cour Right, let's take another court. I think this might
be slightly on a slightly parallel topic here, but George today, Yeah, Hi.
Speaker 5 (34:57):
This is something that this is a problem with Kiwi
say that may, if not already be a ficking an
awful lot of peace. Who don't know it exists. My
daughter has had kiwisaber for quite a long time, and
she decided it was time to buy or get herself
a house.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Ye, So she used a kiwisaver for that yep.
Speaker 5 (35:17):
No, she used a Kiwi saver as a deposit for
the section yep. And then she's going to look for
the proper the house to put on it. She got
the house, she got the section, okay, no problem. And
then she chose the house that she wanted to put
on it and kew, Saber, you've already got your first home.
You can't have any further money.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Oh so she didn't use all her Kiwi Saber.
Speaker 5 (35:40):
No, no, no, she only used enough that she needed
to do to get the pstriction.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (35:45):
Now she's gone a year later or whatever to put
the house on the property that she now owns, and
they have said, no, you already have a property, you
already have your first home. You can't have any further
funds for property development.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
That sounds like that.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
That really stinks, because she hasn't got a house. That
she hasn't got a home, and she hasn't got a home.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
That does sound like something you could argue it might
be outside Shane Solly's area of sort of expertise, I'm guessing, Shane.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
But have you got told within the v Shaw to
act and it's law?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Oh yeah, yeah, but you can't have shame. You can
chip in here on whether you can offer any help
on this. George, hang on, we've got your picture of hounds.
Shane over to you.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
No, no, no, thanks. Firstly, thanks George, you know I
don't I don't know all the details. Unfortunately, sorry I
can't help you. But in terms of the details, but
it is set up there for the first time. The
definition of first time, you'd have to go back to
you to your daughter's QV saver provider and ask, you know,
what exactly does that mean. I do know that you
can't sort of have two cracks in it. So maybe
that's the technical piece. Yeah, because give it a go.
(36:48):
It's talking to them.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, because it is does seem strange because she basically
borrowed part for the section, but she hasn't got the
home yet. That's the start, and the mistake was probably
not taking it all out at once, I guess.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
But the good news it's still growing, George, that wealthy
is still sitting there when she can tap into it.
But I think what you've just raised is another point
that a qsaver is a very helpful investment platform, but
it shouldn't be the only thing, because you know, we
want to accumulate for things like cars and holidays and
(37:20):
houses and stuff, and you want to tap into that,
so you know, we reckon. We think that it makes
sense to have your kisaber and other things so not
all your money ends up in keysaber. It's a fantastic
way to go for most people because it actually forces
them to save that it's pretty hard when you you know,
when you've got that, can I tap into it? If
you can't, then you're forced to hang onto it and
(37:40):
come sixty five. That will be a pretty helpful boast.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
That is worth remembering that if you are, Yeah that
if you're a key saber investor and you want to
actually save some more, it doesn't need to go into
a keV saber. You can actually go to you guys,
if you're with harbor Asset and say what are the funds?
Can I stick my money in? Because they're doing the
same sort of job, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Yeah, many cases you can get basically a mirror of
the kiwisaver, but it's not locked up until you're ten
sixty five available that Hey, I've decided I want to
get my hip done, i want to get going to
a trip, or I'm going to help out the kids,
whatever the case may be, and you can access their cash.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Good advice actually worth remembering that, so instead of adding
to just to your key we Saver up in your contributions,
look at another fund that might be actually identical. But
then you've got a bit more flexibility. Nine minutes to six,
News Talk said b Yes, News Talk said be this
is smart Money with Tim beveris just about near the
end of the show. Actually you had time was run
out pretty quickly on us. But one last question for
(38:34):
Shane Sally is how I've investors react to this announcement
that's going to be a higher level of private asset
investment from key we Saver funds.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
I think you pretty positively. But it's thirty days and
we've got it. We've got to know the rules, we've
got to know what's in, what's out, and so yeah,
I think there's definitely a bit of constructive let's let's
get their rules and move forward. So it's a good move.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Do they consult with you guys.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
You know, there's been some good, healthy discussions. You know,
the industry is being certainly a government and industry been
talking a lot on this. It's a good move.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Excellent. Hey, Shane, this is our last appearance for the
year with you guys from Harborracent Management. Just want to say,
you know, thanks so much for you for being on
the show this year and for your insight. You got
anything exciting plan for for Christmas or Goosey?
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Thanks Tim. We really love being part of your team
and your show. No looking forward to having a great
festive season with the family and and keeping out of
trouble with people doing things.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
You When are you back into it? What do you
ever take a holiday? Do you ever take a holiday? Shane?
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I have to take a
whole I have to go to reach out to the
batteries now back in early January, so back into it
pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
There's not those links on you. There's not those links
on your phone to the financial news where you're just like,
how my honey, I just got to read this thing here,
like get off that bloom and phone.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
He's a bit of that.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Good on you. Well, hey, thanks so much. Give give
our best wishes to Chris and Andrew and the rest
of the team there as well, and have a merry Christmas.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Be specious for the festive season.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
It cheers, mate. There we go. That wraps Smart Money
and the show Sunday at six is next. We'll have
one more weekend collective next weekend and then we're into
slightly different schedule and things. So thanks for your company.
Check out the podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts, it's
dis iHeartRadio. Just look for the Weekend Collective. Sunday at
(40:30):
six is next. I think this might be a little
bit of Dean Martin to hit out with. I think
it is. Indeed, have a great evening. Catch us soon
when we're finally kissed.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Good night.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Our keep it all hour in the storm. But if
you really hold times all the way home, are they
warm and the fire is slowed?
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Day and my DearS.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news Talks.
It'd be weekends from three pm all FLL of the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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