November 19, 2024 • 15 mins
One-test All Black Harry Plummer is poised to leave New Zealand Rugby.
The Blues pivot, who played his so-far only test to date against Australia in Sydney in September, has reportedly signed with French outfit ASM Clermont.
The move is being reported by multiple French outlets with Plummer expected to leave after next year’s Super Rugby season, having visited the club while in Europe with the All Blacks XV.
Injury has ruled Plummer out of any further involvement in the All Blacks end of year tour after being called in from the second-tier squad.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It'd be and it's a warm welcome to the program
to Halo Sports and managing director Simon Porter. Sim gonna
trust you well, yep, very well.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Think you do it yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, not so bad. Haven't been offered a big French
contract yet. I don't I think there's any warn for
me over there are this primer story not unusual in
this day and age z to have a one test
All Black swipe picked up by an overseas team strike
you as is strange or out of the ordinary. Just
(00:43):
that's the way it rolls.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, I think it's probably just the way it rolls.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I mean, I don't know what's motivated Harry to make
the decision. Probably did come as a little bit of
a surprise, just given his you know, his his ascension
and how well his Super season went and then his
first taste.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Of the All Blacks. But I mean, the part of
the really.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Hard thing with the way the global market works is
the lag between I mean, this could be something they've
been talking about for six months. This could be a
decision that was made you back at the start of
super Rugby. You know, you just don't until you see
the inner workings of it and all that sort of stuff,
you just don't really understand when the timing of it
all was. And that's part of that's part of the
(01:27):
issue with you know, with rugby, I guess where it's
two quite distinct hemispheres running to two quite distinct contracting
windows or calendar years, so they don't always marry up.
And it's always part of the when you're advising guys
that the hard bit is the timeline and things just
don't always come together at the same time because it's
(01:50):
not like football where you have you define transfer periods
or windows or a draft like in an NFL which
I imagine an NBA and those American sports, which I
imagine probably also dictates a little bit about what happens
with the guys that are off contract or transferring or whatever.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Does it need to change that system? More's the point, canidate?
Can it actually change?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Well?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I think there's people that have been trying to sit
in a room for well over a decade trying to
get a global calendar started so that everything can kind
of be run a little bit more coherently, where you've
got six Nations and Rugby Championship being played in the
same window, you'd have club rugby being played in the
(02:33):
same window, and you know, leaving those periods of opportunity
for the global game to come together and work together
to create something bigger and better than what it is.
But I think part of that which is overlooked as
it would allow the clubs to kind of maybe align
a little bit better and you would kind of try
to find a global club window. But I think we're
(02:54):
closer to getting to that point than we ever have
been before. But it's just, you know, they just haven't
quite managed to figure that out yet.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I don't think it'd make much of a difference, though.
If a club wants a player, they'll get their player,
won't they by hook or by crook. I don't know
if many of them played the game.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I yeah, I think that's cret But I think what
you'd have is you might have better information, like if
this is a decision Harry had to make six months ago,
because that's when Clement were knocking at the table and
New Zealand weren't even all the Blues weren't even thinking
about you know, the following contracting window or whatever. It
might just align so that people can have better, you know,
(03:31):
more information in front of them at the time when
they actually have to make the decision. Is probably more
what I was meaning there.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
We have a lot of players to sparing overseas understandable.
Has it has it increased? Does it say the same
as it decreased? What was the interest like from you?
Your knowledge is part of harlow halo sport around the
interest in New Zealand players.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Well, I don't think it's increased, to be honest, I
think that you know, Harry, you'd go back a long
time to find, you know, somebody going to France outside
of the end of a or an all back going
to France outside the end of a Rugby World Cup cycle.
(04:13):
You know, since COVID a number of things that happened,
But the biggest one of the salary caps have come
down in France and in the UK, so I mean
the UK and clubs has gone bankrupt and all that
sort of stuff, So it's not as buoyant as it
once was. They've also done a little bit of work
around closing the windows around your ability to play there
(04:35):
from a work permit point of view, which is as
a big factor. And then in France, what we've seen
is that they've put a real emphasis, probably over the
last decade on getting more French players into the system.
So they have a the way that you can qualify
to play in France as a local player. They've basically
(04:56):
put really stringent rules and over time had sort of
a sinking lid on the number of foreign players you
can have, so that if you go and talk to
the French clubs or the French agents, the battleground is
definitely around. You know that the French players and the
guys that are coming out of there, you know, they're
really successful under twenty program.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So I sort of just don't think, well, I know,
if I.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Look at you know, our pen al and all that
sort of stuff, there's just not the same number of
players going to France.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Japan is still pretty buoyant.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
You know, there's still quite a lot of appetite for
New Zealand players up there. But you know, I don't
actually think it's it's increased. It's just you know, sometimes
you get one like this where it's a you know,
it's probably a little bit out of the box and
a little bit unexpected and it makes everyone sort of
(05:44):
sit up a little bit and go, well, how why
is he doing that?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Player agent managing director from Halo Sports, Simon Porter joins us,
what kind of conversation do players have if they need
with n z are around the possibility of leaving their
warm embrace as part of Super Rugby? Does that raise
it's head much?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Do you mean, you know, if you're looking for a
play to overseas? What what conversations are you having with
New Zealand?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Is it? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Well, I mean, and I've got a simple philosophy. Always
give somebody the opportunity to do something stupid. So you know,
you'd definitely be talking to New Zealand and the Blues around,
you know what, whether they're willing to.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Keep them and on what terms.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
And I'll be very surprised if New Zealand hadn't had
a piece of paper in front of Harry for him
to consider staying around for a bit longer.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
That options are right, aren't they? Does it get down
to that stage?
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Every negotiation is different. I don't think anybody really likes
operaton like that, but sometimes I mean it's just look,
everyone got on resource. I think We've talked about it before,
and I mean, at the end of the day, you know,
Harry may just want to go to France. You know,
it might just be as simple as wanting to get
out while he's still quite fit, or you know, he's
(07:12):
just been offered money that he considers is life changing,
and you know he just can't say no.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
And I think you.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
I mean, people make decisions, and they really do make
it for a lot of decisions, a lot of reasons. Well,
they put a lot of you know, consider a lot
of things into the matrix when they're making that decision.
But you know, money is a massive driver to it.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And the.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
All Blacks that.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Have been around for quite a while are pretty well played,
well paid on a global scale. To be perfectly honest,
they are pretty well rewarded. But I can certainly understand
a French club looking at a really promising player and going, well,
we can actually build a team around him for five
(07:59):
or six years. Because he can't play internationally, the only
team he can play for is US. So therefore we're
not going to have him disappearing for training camps or
to go and play. He's not going to be managing
niggles we're not having to talk to the national team
about you know, his injury, return to play protocols. If
he's injured or anything like that. We can give him
(08:20):
as much break as he needs. There's no competing interests
on him. And you know, historically they're the guys at
clubs are willing to make big bets on because they
can sort of control the you know, their careers, which
is different to say South African who can be picked
from overseas and there are competing interest on them, and
(08:40):
you know, they're playing a lot more rugby. Whereas you know,
when you walk into that French environment as a New
Zealander or or Japan or if you go overseas to
take talents overseas, you're a one club person for the
entirety of that contract. There's there's no other pull on
you whatsoever. And that is worth quite a lot of
money to clubs.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
He touched on it before signing, the importance of the
value of a single cat too three caps, he said
they might not have even the negotiation might have started
before he even got that cat. But how much extra value,
how much extra emphasis has put on the fact that
he's worn the black jersey and other players. How much
is that up their market value?
Speaker 4 (09:24):
I think it certainly does in Japan, I think just
because the All Blacks are held in such a steam
up there that I certainly think it probably adds a
little bit up in Japan. But France it's probably a
little bit different. I think the main driver for France
is just what Harry can bring on the field and
(09:44):
the fact that they get them all for themselves and
they can control that, and they can and they can
build a team around him, and you know, ten such
an important position, and you know how he can play
twelve and he can play fifteen, and he goal kicks
and he's a real.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Leader and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
So for them, you know, that's it's probably worth more
than somebody who's at the other end of their career
who might have seventy caps but has kind of, you know,
been through the ringer a little bit each club. And
it's real different overseas with positions as well. In New Zealand,
we're a little bit more. You know, a thirty cap
(10:20):
props worth the same as a thirty cap twelve type.
You know, they try to keep it a little bit
like that, whereas overseas. It is very positional specific in
each each position kind of has its own market value
based on importance to the team player agent.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
The managing director of Halo Sports, Simon Porter, joins us,
what about warnings to young players thinking of going away?
Because I'd suggest maybe not all the time. It's all
it's cracked up to me. It's not a land of
milk and honey. It might just be water and marmite.
So what do you tell your players about moving and
plying their trade over with these Japanese or French clubs.
(10:57):
Is there something to look out for any fishaloks there?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think one of the biggest ones.
I think anyone that is thinking about going overseas that
I'm involved with anyway, I'm always asking about, well, what's
your why? Because when you're playing in New Zealand, you
know every day when you wake up, you know you're
aspiring for that black jersey. You're trying to keep it
(11:21):
and not let anybody else get their hands on it,
or you're working towards it. So it is really a
shining light that kind of keeps you going, and it's
so competitive you don't want to give you anyone a chance,
et cetera. And you know that's a bit different if
you're sitting up in Suzuka, which is where Honda's based
in the Formula one, you wake up to the sound
(11:41):
of the flat line engines or the testing engines.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Going around.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Clement or your your whatever, and it's snow on the
ground and you wake up and it's you know, twenty
sixth of December, and you've got to go to a
training and you know you've got a bit of a
sniffle or you've got a bit of a sore leg.
What's going to make you get up and drive you
to being professional?
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Because I think people don't, you know.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
And that's the thing about New Zealand, whether you get
the black jersey or not, there's just that that drive
that comes from being within any rugby environment in New Zealand,
because it is that real sort of meritocracy. If you
do well at school, if you will get picked up
at an academy, then you're gonna play well at club
and you get into your provincial team and Super Rugby and.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
And all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
And when that's gone, you really have to ask yourself
for I think, you know, I'll make the guys us themselves.
You know, what is going to make them get out
of bed? And what are they going to keep chasing?
And are they happy now just to be a professional
And a lot of them sit there and go, yeah,
well it's work and I'll just.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Do it, and then I mean you just ask them
to do their due diligence.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Still very rare for someone to go without having spoken
to a couple of players within the environment who they
know or people that have been there or whatever. And
they're trying to get a picture for the lifestyle that's
offered to them. And the clubs are all getting might
They've been doing it for years, right, so they're pretty
good at doing that. And you know there are some
clubs that are good for young families in some clubs
(13:06):
that that the single guys would prefer not to go
to and they'd rather be in different.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Areas or whatever.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
So you know, that absolutely is all part of the process,
as well as you know, how good's the club, what's
your coaching?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Like, you know, are you going to win? That probably
comes into that first.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Point point I talked about around you know, what's going
to motivate you if you're not part of that New
Zealand rugby infrastructure, which is a pretty well defined and
and still a very attractive model for a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
It is the black Jersey still strong enough a lure
to keep younger players here. Is it still got that
flavor around it, that halo around it. Sorry, I had
to do that so I'm in port from in order
to keep players here. I mean, how much does that adjust?
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Yeah, I still want to be an orbit. I look like, yes,
I really do think it does. But the butt in
it is that I think what's happening.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Is people are.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Realizing sooner that they might not get there or that
or that you know they yeah, or that they just
might not get there. Remember, they're coming into programs a
lot earlier now. So you know, guys, it always gets
to a point where it's not just running around with
your mates anymore. It is, all of a sudden, it
is it's your job. It's your work, it's business. It's finite.
(14:25):
You know, Harry's head quite a few injuries as an example.
You know he might be sitting there, go, man, I
just got to I just got to make you know,
all this investment that I've put through in himself and
his body and all that sort of stuff to good
use by taking the money now. But I do think
the black jersey really does still hold it for a
lot of people.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
I don't think again, like.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Where where it does get a little bit hard though
for some guys is that you know they're happy being
in All Black. But you know, then if you've been
in that environment and you're not playing every week and
you're just holding tackle bags and whatever, you know, they're
rugby players, they're not rugby trainers.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
And so I think.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
The the luster of of you know, just being on
the bus as you know, it does fade at some
point and sometimes guys go, well, actually I'm better off
going and playing because you know, I actually I don't
want to just sit and get the best seat in
the house at Eden Park. Are actually you know, watching
on the sidelines, actually want to be out in the
middle playing, And you know first five is pretty bossy, right,
(15:27):
so they they probably want to be out in the middle,
and they get a bit frustrated whether they're not maybe,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
So important Halo Sport, Thanks so much for your time,
good luck. I'm at All Black cors.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
One day all right. Thanks mate for more from sports talk.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Listen live to news talks it'd be from seven pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Wildergrave
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It'd be and it's a warm welcome to the program
to Halo Sports and managing director Simon Porter. Sim gonna
trust you well, yep, very well.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Think you do it yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, not so bad. Haven't been offered a big French
contract yet. I don't I think there's any warn for
me over there are this primer story not unusual in
this day and age z to have a one test
All Black swipe picked up by an overseas team strike
you as is strange or out of the ordinary. Just
(00:43):
that's the way it rolls.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, I think it's probably just the way it rolls.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I mean, I don't know what's motivated Harry to make
the decision. Probably did come as a little bit of
a surprise, just given his you know, his his ascension
and how well his Super season went and then his
first taste.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Of the All Blacks. But I mean, the part of
the really.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Hard thing with the way the global market works is
the lag between I mean, this could be something they've
been talking about for six months. This could be a
decision that was made you back at the start of
super Rugby. You know, you just don't until you see
the inner workings of it and all that sort of stuff,
you just don't really understand when the timing of it
all was. And that's part of that's part of the
(01:27):
issue with you know, with rugby, I guess where it's
two quite distinct hemispheres running to two quite distinct contracting
windows or calendar years, so they don't always marry up.
And it's always part of the when you're advising guys
that the hard bit is the timeline and things just
don't always come together at the same time because it's
(01:50):
not like football where you have you define transfer periods
or windows or a draft like in an NFL which
I imagine an NBA and those American sports, which I
imagine probably also dictates a little bit about what happens
with the guys that are off contract or transferring or whatever.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Does it need to change that system? More's the point, canidate?
Can it actually change?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Well?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I think there's people that have been trying to sit
in a room for well over a decade trying to
get a global calendar started so that everything can kind
of be run a little bit more coherently, where you've
got six Nations and Rugby Championship being played in the
same window, you'd have club rugby being played in the
(02:33):
same window, and you know, leaving those periods of opportunity
for the global game to come together and work together
to create something bigger and better than what it is.
But I think part of that which is overlooked as
it would allow the clubs to kind of maybe align
a little bit better and you would kind of try
to find a global club window. But I think we're
(02:54):
closer to getting to that point than we ever have
been before. But it's just, you know, they just haven't
quite managed to figure that out yet.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I don't think it'd make much of a difference, though.
If a club wants a player, they'll get their player,
won't they by hook or by crook. I don't know
if many of them played the game.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I yeah, I think that's cret But I think what
you'd have is you might have better information, like if
this is a decision Harry had to make six months ago,
because that's when Clement were knocking at the table and
New Zealand weren't even all the Blues weren't even thinking
about you know, the following contracting window or whatever. It
might just align so that people can have better, you know,
(03:31):
more information in front of them at the time when
they actually have to make the decision. Is probably more
what I was meaning there.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
We have a lot of players to sparing overseas understandable.
Has it has it increased? Does it say the same
as it decreased? What was the interest like from you?
Your knowledge is part of harlow halo sport around the
interest in New Zealand players.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Well, I don't think it's increased, to be honest, I
think that you know, Harry, you'd go back a long
time to find, you know, somebody going to France outside
of the end of a or an all back going
to France outside the end of a Rugby World Cup cycle.
(04:13):
You know, since COVID a number of things that happened,
But the biggest one of the salary caps have come
down in France and in the UK, so I mean
the UK and clubs has gone bankrupt and all that
sort of stuff, So it's not as buoyant as it
once was. They've also done a little bit of work
around closing the windows around your ability to play there
(04:35):
from a work permit point of view, which is as
a big factor. And then in France, what we've seen
is that they've put a real emphasis, probably over the
last decade on getting more French players into the system.
So they have a the way that you can qualify
to play in France as a local player. They've basically
(04:56):
put really stringent rules and over time had sort of
a sinking lid on the number of foreign players you
can have, so that if you go and talk to
the French clubs or the French agents, the battleground is
definitely around. You know that the French players and the
guys that are coming out of there, you know, they're
really successful under twenty program.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So I sort of just don't think, well, I know,
if I.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Look at you know, our pen al and all that
sort of stuff, there's just not the same number of
players going to France.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Japan is still pretty buoyant.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
You know, there's still quite a lot of appetite for
New Zealand players up there. But you know, I don't
actually think it's it's increased. It's just you know, sometimes
you get one like this where it's a you know,
it's probably a little bit out of the box and
a little bit unexpected and it makes everyone sort of
(05:44):
sit up a little bit and go, well, how why
is he doing that?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Player agent managing director from Halo Sports, Simon Porter joins us,
what kind of conversation do players have if they need
with n z are around the possibility of leaving their
warm embrace as part of Super Rugby? Does that raise
it's head much?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Do you mean, you know, if you're looking for a
play to overseas? What what conversations are you having with
New Zealand?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Is it? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Well, I mean, and I've got a simple philosophy. Always
give somebody the opportunity to do something stupid. So you know,
you'd definitely be talking to New Zealand and the Blues around,
you know what, whether they're willing to.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Keep them and on what terms.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
And I'll be very surprised if New Zealand hadn't had
a piece of paper in front of Harry for him
to consider staying around for a bit longer.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
That options are right, aren't they? Does it get down
to that stage?
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Every negotiation is different. I don't think anybody really likes
operaton like that, but sometimes I mean it's just look,
everyone got on resource. I think We've talked about it before,
and I mean, at the end of the day, you know,
Harry may just want to go to France. You know,
it might just be as simple as wanting to get
out while he's still quite fit, or you know, he's
(07:12):
just been offered money that he considers is life changing,
and you know he just can't say no.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
And I think you.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
I mean, people make decisions, and they really do make
it for a lot of decisions, a lot of reasons. Well,
they put a lot of you know, consider a lot
of things into the matrix when they're making that decision.
But you know, money is a massive driver to it.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And the.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
All Blacks that.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Have been around for quite a while are pretty well played,
well paid on a global scale. To be perfectly honest,
they are pretty well rewarded. But I can certainly understand
a French club looking at a really promising player and going, well,
we can actually build a team around him for five
(07:59):
or six years. Because he can't play internationally, the only
team he can play for is US. So therefore we're
not going to have him disappearing for training camps or
to go and play. He's not going to be managing
niggles we're not having to talk to the national team
about you know, his injury, return to play protocols. If
he's injured or anything like that. We can give him
(08:20):
as much break as he needs. There's no competing interests
on him. And you know, historically they're the guys at
clubs are willing to make big bets on because they
can sort of control the you know, their careers, which
is different to say South African who can be picked
from overseas and there are competing interest on them, and
(08:40):
you know, they're playing a lot more rugby. Whereas you know,
when you walk into that French environment as a New
Zealander or or Japan or if you go overseas to
take talents overseas, you're a one club person for the
entirety of that contract. There's there's no other pull on
you whatsoever. And that is worth quite a lot of
money to clubs.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
He touched on it before signing, the importance of the
value of a single cat too three caps, he said
they might not have even the negotiation might have started
before he even got that cat. But how much extra value,
how much extra emphasis has put on the fact that
he's worn the black jersey and other players. How much
is that up their market value?
Speaker 4 (09:24):
I think it certainly does in Japan, I think just
because the All Blacks are held in such a steam
up there that I certainly think it probably adds a
little bit up in Japan. But France it's probably a
little bit different. I think the main driver for France
is just what Harry can bring on the field and
(09:44):
the fact that they get them all for themselves and
they can control that, and they can and they can
build a team around him, and you know, ten such
an important position, and you know how he can play
twelve and he can play fifteen, and he goal kicks
and he's a real.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Leader and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
So for them, you know, that's it's probably worth more
than somebody who's at the other end of their career
who might have seventy caps but has kind of, you know,
been through the ringer a little bit each club. And
it's real different overseas with positions as well. In New Zealand,
we're a little bit more. You know, a thirty cap
(10:20):
props worth the same as a thirty cap twelve type.
You know, they try to keep it a little bit
like that, whereas overseas. It is very positional specific in
each each position kind of has its own market value
based on importance to the team player agent.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
The managing director of Halo Sports, Simon Porter, joins us,
what about warnings to young players thinking of going away?
Because I'd suggest maybe not all the time. It's all
it's cracked up to me. It's not a land of
milk and honey. It might just be water and marmite.
So what do you tell your players about moving and
plying their trade over with these Japanese or French clubs.
(10:57):
Is there something to look out for any fishaloks there?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think one of the biggest ones.
I think anyone that is thinking about going overseas that
I'm involved with anyway, I'm always asking about, well, what's
your why? Because when you're playing in New Zealand, you
know every day when you wake up, you know you're
aspiring for that black jersey. You're trying to keep it
(11:21):
and not let anybody else get their hands on it,
or you're working towards it. So it is really a
shining light that kind of keeps you going, and it's
so competitive you don't want to give you anyone a chance,
et cetera. And you know that's a bit different if
you're sitting up in Suzuka, which is where Honda's based
in the Formula one, you wake up to the sound
(11:41):
of the flat line engines or the testing engines.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Going around.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Clement or your your whatever, and it's snow on the
ground and you wake up and it's you know, twenty
sixth of December, and you've got to go to a
training and you know you've got a bit of a
sniffle or you've got a bit of a sore leg.
What's going to make you get up and drive you
to being professional?
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Because I think people don't, you know.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
And that's the thing about New Zealand, whether you get
the black jersey or not, there's just that that drive
that comes from being within any rugby environment in New Zealand,
because it is that real sort of meritocracy. If you
do well at school, if you will get picked up
at an academy, then you're gonna play well at club
and you get into your provincial team and Super Rugby and.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
And all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
And when that's gone, you really have to ask yourself
for I think, you know, I'll make the guys us themselves.
You know, what is going to make them get out
of bed? And what are they going to keep chasing?
And are they happy now just to be a professional
And a lot of them sit there and go, yeah,
well it's work and I'll just.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Do it, and then I mean you just ask them
to do their due diligence.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Still very rare for someone to go without having spoken
to a couple of players within the environment who they
know or people that have been there or whatever. And
they're trying to get a picture for the lifestyle that's
offered to them. And the clubs are all getting might
They've been doing it for years, right, so they're pretty
good at doing that. And you know there are some
clubs that are good for young families in some clubs
(13:06):
that that the single guys would prefer not to go
to and they'd rather be in different.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Areas or whatever.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
So you know, that absolutely is all part of the process,
as well as you know, how good's the club, what's
your coaching?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Like, you know, are you going to win? That probably
comes into that first.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Point point I talked about around you know, what's going
to motivate you if you're not part of that New
Zealand rugby infrastructure, which is a pretty well defined and
and still a very attractive model for a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
It is the black Jersey still strong enough a lure
to keep younger players here. Is it still got that
flavor around it, that halo around it. Sorry, I had
to do that so I'm in port from in order
to keep players here. I mean, how much does that adjust?
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Yeah, I still want to be an orbit. I look like, yes,
I really do think it does. But the butt in
it is that I think what's happening.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Is people are.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Realizing sooner that they might not get there or that
or that you know they yeah, or that they just
might not get there. Remember, they're coming into programs a
lot earlier now. So you know, guys, it always gets
to a point where it's not just running around with
your mates anymore. It is, all of a sudden, it
is it's your job. It's your work, it's business. It's finite.
(14:25):
You know, Harry's head quite a few injuries as an example.
You know he might be sitting there, go, man, I
just got to I just got to make you know,
all this investment that I've put through in himself and
his body and all that sort of stuff to good
use by taking the money now. But I do think
the black jersey really does still hold it for a
lot of people.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
I don't think again, like.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Where where it does get a little bit hard though
for some guys is that you know they're happy being
in All Black. But you know, then if you've been
in that environment and you're not playing every week and
you're just holding tackle bags and whatever, you know, they're
rugby players, they're not rugby trainers.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
And so I think.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
The the luster of of you know, just being on
the bus as you know, it does fade at some
point and sometimes guys go, well, actually I'm better off
going and playing because you know, I actually I don't
want to just sit and get the best seat in
the house at Eden Park. Are actually you know, watching
on the sidelines, actually want to be out in the
middle playing, And you know first five is pretty bossy, right,
(15:27):
so they they probably want to be out in the middle,
and they get a bit frustrated whether they're not maybe,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
So important Halo Sport, Thanks so much for your time,
good luck. I'm at All Black cors.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
One day all right. Thanks mate for more from sports talk.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Listen live to news talks it'd be from seven pm weekdays,
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