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March 4, 2025 • 14 mins

Anybody watching the Oscars would have noticed a common theme...  

It was probably about when host Conan O'Brien mocked streaming culture with a sketch introducing the idea of a 'building for movies' and getting people to 'stream movies in a theatre.'

And it wasn’t the first, or the last, reference to brick-and-mortar cinemas...  

Anora director Sean Baker used his acceptance speech for Best Director as a battle cry for movie theatres – saying they’re under threat.

And it’s not just the US that’s seen less bums in seats at the cinema.

NZ cinema chain Silky Otter said just last year the market was about 25% below what it was in 2019, pre-Covid.

But, is the pandemic the only thing to blame?

Today on The Front Page, Capitol cinema owner, Roger Wyllie is with us to chat about what could be causing the death of cinemas – and what can be done to revive them.

Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.

Host: Chelsea Daniels
Sound Engineer/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Ethan Sills

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Kyoda.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. Anybody watching
the Oscars would have noticed a common theme. It was
probably about when host Conan O'Brien mocked streaming culture with
a sketch introducing the idea of a building for movies

(00:27):
and getting people to stream movies in a theater.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Are you tired of streaming movies from your couch, from
your kitchen, and from your hand. What if I told
you there's another way to stream movies in a building
that's dedicated to streaming movies.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Welcome to cinema streams.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
And it wasn't the first or the last reference to
brick and mortar cinemas. Anora director Sean Baker used his
acceptance speech for Best Director as a battle cry for
movie theaters, saying they're under threat.

Speaker 4 (01:05):
Distributors, please focus first and foremost on the theatrical releases
of your films. Neon did that for me, and I
thank you from the bottom of my hope.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
And it's not just the US that's seen less bums
and seats at the cinema, and said cinema chain silky
Otter said just last year that the market was about
twenty five percent below what it was in twenty nineteen
pre COVID. But is the pandemic the only thing to blame?

Speaker 5 (01:34):
Today?

Speaker 2 (01:35):
On the front page Capital Cinema owner Roger Wiley is
with us to chat about what could be causing the
death of cinemas and what can be done to revive them. Roger,
I don't know if you watched the oscars the other day.
I'm pretty sure you probably did, but I noticed a
lot of references to keeping cinema alive? Did you notice

(01:57):
those as well?

Speaker 5 (01:58):
I did, indeed, especially with Sean Baker, his comments about
independent cinema's survival ran pretty true to a kind of
a worldwide effect that's happening at the moment where cinemas
are not being supported or not getting the audiences that
they did pre.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
COVID, Right, So that hit home for you, A, oh.

Speaker 5 (02:17):
Yeah, absolutely, because we're seeing it here in the States.
Two thousand screens have closed since twenty twenty one. There's
now there's major kind of chains that are kind of
feeling that effect as well. So there's more to come,
which is pretty scary if you're in the cinema business.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
It's been five years since COVID, saw dozens of films
either delayed or put on streaming services, and movie theaters
worldwide being shut down. They're still being shut down, as
you mentioned there. How has attendance been since the world
opened back up.

Speaker 5 (02:51):
Well, there's definitely a demographic that's not coming back, and
they haven't come back since COVID, and that's pretty much
the fifty five plus demographic, maybe a little bit sixty plus.
They definitely have not come back to the cinemas. And
what you're seeing now is films that currently aren't being

(03:12):
made for that demographic. Guither that audience is particularly coming
back for like festivals like the Italian and they're coming
back for event kind of based festivals, but on a
weekly basis, they are not. They're not coming back. It's
pretty much a that's why we're seeing a raft of
horror films, quite dark independent films, or the younger cast

(03:35):
and of course younger kind of genres coming through.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, if we take a moment actually look at the
kinds of films being made looking back to the early
two thousands, films like Meet the Parents, in My Big
Fat Green Wedding, were some of the highest grossing films
of their respective years. But looking at twenty twenty four,
the only film in the top ten which wasn't A
Sea Call was Wicked, of course, and that came with

(04:02):
its own fan base. So is there a change in
the types of movies that draw crowds these days?

Speaker 5 (04:09):
Well, I think it's it's not the type of movie movies,
it's the themes that they explore. I mean, independent films
have been known to be darker, thought provoking, question questioning
ideas or ideals, or pushing the boundaries of I guess film.
And currently my thoughts are that audiences are so emotionally

(04:33):
drained from everyday news, every day everything that's going on
in the world, that they don't want to come and
see these films where they they want to escapism. They
want to they want to go back to the Barbie
and Oppenheimer Dame's days, where it was kind of it
was fun to go and see a film that took
them out of their day to day experiences, which is
why in the back, when you go to the Depression
and the Great Depression, that cinema had this huge resurgence

(04:57):
because it was seen as an escape from everything that
was kind of taking what was going on on a
day to day basis. And I think at the moment
the films that are coming through quite hard. You can't
just go and escape in the cinema for ninety or
one hundred and twenty minutes. You've actually got to think
about what you're seeing.

Speaker 6 (05:21):
The movies that we used to make, you could afford
to not make all of your money when it played
in the theater because you knew you had the DVD
coming behind the release, and six months later you'd get
you a whole nother chunk.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
It would be like reopening the movie almost.

Speaker 6 (05:34):
And when that went away, that changed the type of
movies that we could make.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
I did this movie behind the Candelabra.

Speaker 6 (05:41):
When I talked to a studio executive who explained it
was a twenty five million dollar movie, I would have
to put that much into print advertising right to market it.
So now I'm in fifty million dollars. I have to
split everything I get with the exhibitor right the people
who own the movie theaters. So I would have to
make one hundred million dollars before I got into profit.
The idea of making one hundred million dollars on a

(06:01):
story about.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Like alove affair between these two people.

Speaker 6 (06:04):
So that's that's suddenly a massive gam in a way
that it wasn't in the nineteen nineties when they were
making all of those kind of movies, the kind of
movies that I loved and and the.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Kind of movies that were my bread and butter, and a.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Lot of those kind of mid budget comedy films as well.
It seems like they're going straight to streaming services. So
is there not a place in the cinema for those
kind of films anymore?

Speaker 5 (06:28):
There's not enough of them. That's the problem. That they're
very few and far between. I mean, that's kind of
when that sits in the middle of the indie and
the big studio films, those titles and that's what used
to get audiences in and I don't there's enough of
those being made, or the quality of them isn't as
what it used to be.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Is there now a huge divide in what we perceive
to be a streaming film versus one that you just
have to see on the big screen.

Speaker 5 (06:54):
Well, see, I'm old, I have to see them on
the big screen. I can't watch film on a streaming
service I have, but I would prefer to watch it
on a big screen. I mean, Netflix are producing films
that are just going straight to the Netflix service, the distributors.
I've changed the window, so what happens is it'll go

(07:15):
to the big screen, sort of go into cinemas, and
then two weeks later it's on a digital platform like
Netflix or Amazon or Disney Plus. So the window has
changed from being a four week exclusive in the cinema
where you had to see it first. That's now been
kind of eroded, I guess by the by not being
exclusive for two weeks.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
And do you think cost is putting people off too?

Speaker 5 (07:37):
I think it's the current kind of economic climate people.
I mean, you've got parking, you've got you know, if
you're going on a date, you've got dinners, you've got parking,
You've got all those kind of extra things on top
of So what we notice is people are buying tickets,
but they're not spending when they go into the cinema.
And that's across the board, and that's kind of where

(07:58):
cinemas make their money, not not on the ticket sales itself,
but by kind of what people are actually purchasing across
the bar. We try and keep things accessible. So we've
got one of the cheapest tickets in town because I
believe that, you know, I'd rather come through the door
and at these times and buy product rather than pulling
the prices up, which is what everybody seems to do,

(08:20):
which obviously kind of cuts a certain demographic out from
going to the films see the cinema.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
In terms of the kinds of movies being made. Is
it a bit of a chicken egg situation because are
we not seeing these movies because they're not being made
or are they not being made because we're just not
going to see them.

Speaker 5 (08:49):
Well, it's a bit of both. It's actually they're not
being made because people aren't going to see them. So
there's been a real kind of pivot and two different
genres like we were talking about before, Like so now
there's more horror films because there's a younger demographic going
to the cinema. So they've kind of done a pivolon.
Let's move away from the kind of romantic comedy. So
those big films that we're just talking about, it's now

(09:12):
gone into there's a howld a lot of horror being
made from a twenty four a neon, all those guys.
That's what everyone's pumping out. The substance, for example, a
lot of films of that quality coming through a horror.
But there's only so much horror you can actually or
thrillers that you can actually take in.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Right, do you think we need another big movie franchise.
I'm only saying this because of the news of the
James Bond movies being sold to Amazon, and that's a
real shame, I think, because now Amazon's going to do
goodness knows what with them, I suppose. But every time
a Bond movie comes out, it's a spectacle. You want
to go see it at the cinema. I can't think

(09:51):
of any other kind of franchises at the moment that
are similar. Even Marvel movies don't feel like the big
events that they once were.

Speaker 5 (09:58):
Well, none of the franchises have work. This is the problem.
And I think that's also There been remakes of a
remake or an extension of another story, but they haven't
resonated with the audiences, and they keep pumping these out
and it's kind of it's eradicating any value that they
had in these franchises or on these properties without coming

(10:21):
up with anything new, which is which is a little
bit silly really, it just needs a whole new angle
on the jangle pretty much.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
In terms of bums on seats, do you reckon? It's
getting better slowly and more. What's going to bring people back?

Speaker 5 (10:35):
What will bring people back? See? I don't think anything.
I think it's too late. Now we've gone through nearly
close to three years of people getting used to watching
films at home on their streaming services. We've now got
a kind of an economic climate that isn't great, so
it's limiting to how many times people can come to
cinema and see their favorite cinema and see the films

(10:57):
that they like to see. I think cinemas actually have
to start looking at what they can bring to get
audiences on a different way. I mean, we've started something
called we Haven't Sounded, but we've had it for a
couple of years now called Pitch Black Playback, where once
a month we have these listening experiences in the dark
where you come in and listen to an album as
through the Jobbie sound system in the cinema like Radiohead

(11:21):
the QUM. So each month we kind of feature a
different artists and that's how we've kind of worked our
way through these times is coming up with different ideas.
We've our comedians and trying out new material. It's going
to think about think outside the square.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
It's a bit sad though, when I hear you say,
do you think it's a bit late?

Speaker 5 (11:40):
I do think it's a bit late. It's the films
aren't there to support. Well, the films are there, but
they're not They're not just not getting the audiences back.
And I think we need to kind of go back
to that four week window where you could only see
that film in the cinema, and that's what you used
to drive a lot of a lot of people to

(12:00):
go into the simmers to see the film on the
big screen before it which was a Netflix or an Amazon.
Two weeks is too short. Our film needs three to
four weeks to find us audience alone, so that two
weeks window is actually killing us.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
So we're all here tonight and watching this broadcast because
we love movies. Where did we fall in love with
the movies at the movie theater?

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Watching a film. Watching a film in.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
A theater with an audience is an experience. We can
laugh together, cry together, scream and frite together, perhaps sit
in devastated silence together. And in a time in which
the world can feel very divided, this is more important
than ever. It's a communal experience you simply don't get
at home. Parents. Parents introduce their children to feature films

(12:54):
in movie theaters, and you'll be molding the next generation
of movie lovers and filmmakers. And for all of us
when we can, please watch movies in the theater, and
let's keep the great tradition of the movie going experience
alive and well.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
And you mentioned before and I find this interesting that
you say that the fifty five plus age group hasn't
come back. I would have thought that it's the younger
age group. I mean, my parents are still avid theater goers.
My brother and I buy them gift cards for all
of their local theaters all the time because we can't
think of anything else, but also because they love going.
And I don't think it's down to them not knowing

(13:29):
how to use the apps on their TV or anything.
I mean, are we seeing less young people or do
you reckon? There is a chance that these younger generations
can be lured back to the experience of sitting down
with your mates, putting away your phone and watching a
film on the big screen.

Speaker 5 (13:45):
So if you've got kids, take them to the cinema
because that is the true experience. I mean, you know,
as we grew up ongoing to the cinema with our
parents and we watched Star Wars on the big screen.
Hang on, I think the younger it's definitely the younger

(14:08):
folk that have come back. It's definitely the older generation,
but I don't think the films are being made for
them currently.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Thanks for joining us, Roger, thank you for having me.
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzdherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also

(14:35):
a sound engineer.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
I'm Chelsea Daniels.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look
behind the headlines.
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