January 12, 2025 • 18 mins
Billionaire Elon Musk is not content with just having the ear of US President elect Donald Trump.
Over the past few weeks, the world’s richest man has weighed in on European politics, first writing an op-ed backing Germany’s far-right AFD party.
But the UK has become a particular obsession, with Musk frequently commenting on his social media platform, X, about child grooming and rape gangs, laying the blame squarely at the feet of the six-month old Labour Government.
So why is the tech mogul so interested in politics overseas, and how are the US’ European allies meant to respond when Musk is firmly in Trump’s inner circle?
Today on The Front Page, senior reporter for CNN Politics Stephen Collinson joins us from Washington DC to discuss the thinking behind Musk’s political commentary.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Sound Engineer/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Ethan Sills
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kiota.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Presented by the New Zealand Herald.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Billionaire Elon Musk is not content with just having the
ear of US President elect Donald Trump. Over the past
few weeks, the world's richest man has weighed in on
European politics, first writing an op ed backing Germany's far
Ride AfD party, But the UK has become a particular obsession,
(00:39):
with Mask frequently commenting on his social media platform x
about child grooming and rape gangs, laying the blame squarely
at the feet of the six month old labor government.
So why is the tech mogul so interested in politics overseas?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
And how are the US's.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
European allies meant to respond when Mask is firmly in
Trump's inner circle. Today on the Front Page, CNN's senior
political correspondent, Stephen Collinson joins us from Washington, DC to
discuss the thinking behind Mask's political commentary. First off, Stephen,
(01:23):
can you remind us of what Elon Musk's role is
going to be with the incoming Trump administration?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Well, officially, Musk is going to be the co head
of a new agency within the government a de facto
agency called the Department of Government Efficiency. This is a
body which Trump says will come up with recommendations to
slash wasteful government spending and regulations. In fact, many of
(01:52):
the regulations potentially that Elon Musk's companies benefit from or
are constrained by. So that's one of the issues here,
one of the reasons why a lot of people fear
that his presence in the center of the government will
create huge conflicts of interest. But Musk has a finger
and a lot of pies around the world, not just
as the head of Tesla and SpaceX, which has billions
(02:15):
of dollars of contracts from.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
The US government.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
He has businesses in many countries, business interests, for example,
in countries like China that could see clashes with American
foreign policy. So we've never in the modern era had
someone like this, the world's richest man, so intimately entwined
with an administration. So this is a really unprecedented moment, I.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Think, And can you give us a bit of an
overview of some of the ways Mask has intervened in
European politics in recent weeks.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Certainly the most recent one that has caused A great
deal of controversy is his intervening in the issue of
a grooming scandal in the United Kingdom. The current Prime Minister,
Keir Starmer, used to be the Director of Public Prosecutions
in the UK and he was in charge at one
(03:05):
point about a decade ago, of investigating some of these
abuses young women in the North of England. Musk has
resuscitated all the controversy around that, and he's accusing Keir
Starmer falsely in fact, of doing nothing to prosecute these abuses.
So that has caused a huge issue in British politics.
(03:28):
He was also using his social media network x in
the eyes of the British government, incites racial hatred. That's
another issue that has really rocked British politics. But Musk
has also intervened in the German election which will take
place next month. He is backing the AfD, the Alternative
(03:50):
for Germany party, which is a far right wing anti
immigrant party. I think you could argue that there's been
a resurgence of populism in Europe in recent months, and
there are parties in France and Germany and the United
Kingdom that Trump would far rather deal with than the
incumbent governments. So I think we're going to see a
(04:11):
lot of nervousness and a lot of resentment in Europe
if must continue this behavior when Trump is present.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
Those that are spreading lies and in misinformation as far
and as wide as possible, they're not interested in victims,
They're interested in themselves. But I enjoy the cut and
thrust of politics, the robust debate that we must have,
but that's got to be based on facts and truth,
(04:45):
not on lies, not on those who are so desperate
for attention that they're prepared to debase themselves and their country.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
How have Europeans it has responded to Musk's commentary well.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
The British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, who I mentioned, was
compelled to make a statement. He said that Musk had
crossed the line after he said that the British prime
minister responsible for safeguarding children should be jailed. French President
Emmanuel Macron is accusing Musk of backing a knew what
(05:26):
he called international reactionary movement, talking about those parties on
the right. The German government has already criticized Musk for
what they say is interference in their affairs with his
backing for the AfD and in Norway the prime minister there.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
So it was worrying that Musk had so much.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Power and then he had the capacity to intervene in
the affairs of other countries. So I think there is
resentment and it's not just Musk saying things on x
He has a great deal of money. He for example,
put down more than one hundred million dollars of his
own money to back Trump in the election in November.
(06:06):
Trump used some of that money to create turnout efforts
in the key state of Pennsylvania. There's a lot of
speculation about whether Musk will use his money to back
parties in Europe, for example, the Reform Party of Nigel
Farage in the UK, the.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Father of Brexit.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
There was a lot of speculation that Musk could send
millions of dollars to the Reform Party and Opposition Party
in the UK, although that seems to have still because
Farage seems to have fallen out with Musk because he
didn't share the Tesla Pioneer's views about a British guy
called Tommy Robinson who's actually in jail and is accused
(06:46):
by the government of inciting violence. So Musk's money, I
think is going to be a real player in some
of these elections if he decides to do more than
just speak out on X and giving.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Musk is going to be working with the incoming government
the US. Does it make it difficult to kind of
differentiate his reckons online versus actual US foreign policy.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
I think that's going to be a question.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
And the thing that foreign leaders have to ask is
is this Musk just muck raking trying to stir up
trouble just so you liked doing it, or is it
being done on behalf of the president of the United States.
And that brings them to another question. They have to
work out how to respond to Musk and push back
(07:29):
if they want to without alienating future President Donald Trump.
A lot of European Asian governments has spent a lot
of time in the last six months or so trying
to get close to Trump, trying to penetrate his inner
circle in the belief that he could well. As happened
when the election, some of those efforts are now in doubt. Starma,
(07:52):
for example, had dinner with Trump before the election and
believe that he had made strides in getting a good
relationship with the present elect that could be in jeopardy
if Trump sees Starma criticizing Elon Musk. So I think
it's going to be a very complex issue for some
(08:13):
of these governments to work out whether Musk is really
pushing official American policy or whether he's just pushing policies
that favor his mirial of business interests.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Well, there was a battle amongst Magas circles over the holidays,
with Musk and fellow DOGE boss Vivek Ramaswami clashing with
other Republicans over.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Visas for skilled workers. Trump seemed to side with the
tech bros on this one.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
But what do you think this saga suggests about the
next four years.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
I think this is a this is.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
A fascinating argument, and I think it's one that tells
us that some things in Trump's second term could be
different from his first term. The issue was over H
one B visas, which allow tech companies to bring highly
qualified engineers and software experts and programmers into the United
(09:13):
States to work, and they're used a great deal in
Silicon Valley companies. The traditional Trump based people like Steve Bannon,
Trump's former populist political guru, are against these visas. Much
of the Trump bases anti immigration. People like Bannons say
that the visas allow US firms to undercut wages that
(09:34):
they should be paying to American workers. Musk and a
lot of the leading Silicon Valley executives argue that in
order for America's software and tech industry sustay competitive with
countries like China, you have to be able to import
the best talent wherever they're from. Must says that he
(09:54):
himself as an example of this. Of course, he was
born in South Africa. So this is a fault line
between the two wings of the new Trump coalition, the
existing magabase and the new, as you call it, the
tech bro Maga constituency. I think we're going to see
classes again and again on this fault line in the
(10:16):
next administration. And it's particularly interesting because during his first term,
Donald Trump rarely got crossways with his political base. He's
not a politician that builds up political capital and spends
it in a lot of different situations, especially on the
issue of immigration, but also on gun control and other issues.
(10:38):
Trump backed down in things he was going to do
because they were unpopular with his base. So we get
to a point now when we're asking will he side
with his traditional supporters, his nationalist, populist heartland supporters, or
will he go with these people in the new coalition,
people like Elon Musk, And I think that's going to
(10:59):
be a source of constant tension in the months ahead.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
The new one is president Trump proceeded the presidency Musk. No, No,
that's that happening.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
But Elon has done an amazing job.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Isn't it nice to have smart.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
People that we could rely on.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
No, he's not going to be president. That I can't
tell you, and I'm safe. You know why he can't be.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
He wasn't born in this country.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Ah, do you think Musk will eventually become a thorn
in Trump's side?
Speaker 3 (11:40):
So a lot of people spend a lot of time
since Musk became this ubiquitous companion of the present elect,
predicting that sooner or later they would fall out. Generally,
people that come into Trump's in the circle always end
up falling out with the present elect.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
He often looks for culprits when they go wrong.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
He believes that he should get all the headlines and
the adulation, and Musk is a competing star in the
Trump orbit. Right now, he's getting far more headlines than
the present elect himself. So a lot of people think
it's a matter of time before they clash. I believe
that there are many reasons why, even if the relationship
(12:22):
cools somewhat, it is in both the interests of Trump
and Musk to make sure that it stays in good
standing at least for the next couple of years. Musk
is going to be in a very advantageous position. He's
going to be able to reshape the US regulatory regime
that in a way that could help his companies. It
(12:43):
wouldn't be at all surprising if he gets billions more
in contracts. He's basically at this point running much of
the US space program, the push to return to the
Moon and Mars, so he doesn't want to take any
steps that I think alienate him from the next President Trump.
When you look at Trump, Musk doesn't seem like the
(13:04):
kind of enemy that the president elect really would like
to have to deal with. He's hugely powerful, not just
because of his business interests, but he tweets or I
don't know what you call it, X is now on
X plentiful times a day.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
He could turn.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Out to be a real theign in his side, as
you suggest, if they fall out and Republicans they've got
their eyes on Musk's money. They want to use Musk's
wealth in the midterm elections in November twenty twenty six,
elections that could, if history tells us anything, be quite
tough for the incumbent Republican Party. So there are many
(13:41):
reasons why Musk and Trump have incentives not to fall
out with one another.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
How much do you think we can rip out of
this wasted six point five trillion.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Dollar horse five? Well, I think we can do at
least two trillion.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I mean, at the end of the day, you're being taxed,
your money is being wasted, and.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
The Apartment of Government demasiency is going.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
To fix that. America's not not It's just going to
be great. America is going to reach heights that it
has never seen before.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
The future is gonna be amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
You've written, they, as in Trump and Mask, are demonstrating
a belief that their strength allows them to bully smaller
countries and may auger a new and brasher incarnation of America. First, now,
this line struck me because, of course New Zealand is
a smaller country.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Do you think it's only a matter of.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Time before the focus perhaps shifts from Europe to say,
the Pacific.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I think for now the major focus is the Western Hemisphere.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
For Trump.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
He is threatening twenty five percent taris on Canada, he
is threatening to take back the Panama Canal by force,
looking at Transatlantic securities, talking about trying to buy Greenland again.
I think we're also very likely to see tariff threats
against the European Union as soon as Trump gets back
into office. I think New Zealand would have the bad
(15:24):
luck to get to get Trump's I if somebody in
Trump's in a circle mentioned something about New Zealand. Often
Trump's resentments and anger towards foreign countries is stirred by
someone he meets. So perhaps it would be smart of
the New Zealand government to take care not to do
anything that catches Trump's eye and hope, as many other
(15:47):
governments will, that the initial storm of the start of
his new presidency will pass.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
But Trump, generally when.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
He sees people down at Mara Lago, he has a
very wide circle of friends who bring him and there's
a theory that one of his friends, for instance, might
be a shipping magnet was complaining about the cost of
shipping stuff through the Panama Canal, and that's what got
Trump angry. But he does take a very transactional view
of the world. I think he sees the world and
(16:14):
he sees life really through a prism of who is
strong and who is weak. And he believes that he
and the United States are strong and they have the
right to push narrow national interests. And if he perceives
at some point that United States interests are being compromised
by New Zealand in some way, that would be I
think when he turns is his attention to you guys.
(16:36):
So hopefully for now at least, he's got other targets.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
And what do you think Mask's end game is here?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Ultimately, what does he want to get out of being
seen as this kind of power behind the throne.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
It's a good question, and he's not really spoken about this.
I think that he clearly seems to enjoy being part
of the spotlight. He's been around trumpet Mara Lago for
much of the time since Trump's election victory. I expect
we'll see him play a prominent role in the inauguration.
(17:08):
He has been in meetings with Trump with world leaders,
taking part in phone calls, for example, with President Zelanski.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
So he clearly has a lot of you know, he
doesn't need any more money.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
He's already the richest man in the world, but he
seems to very much enjoy wielding the influence that he
gets by proximity to the most powerful man in the world.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
What he will do.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Afterwards, I mean, Trump can only be in office for
four more years, for example, does it get to a
point where Musk gets bored of politics, where he finds,
for example, that the business of trying to cut trillions
of dollars in the US budget is a very difficult
business and one that's not that interesting. It's possible that
he could get bored from politics and you know find
(17:55):
you know, launching rockets and designing electric cars is a
much more interesting of his time. But I don't think
we really know exactly what he wants, and that's one
of the things we'll be watching and seeing how prominent
a role he does take, not just in cutting the
size of government, but in Trump's in a circle on
whether he gets to wield even more power than he
(18:17):
does already.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Thanks for joining us, Steven no Warris.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzedherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
our sound engineer.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look
behind the headlines.
Kiota.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Presented by the New Zealand Herald.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Billionaire Elon Musk is not content with just having the
ear of US President elect Donald Trump. Over the past
few weeks, the world's richest man has weighed in on
European politics, first writing an op ed backing Germany's far
Ride AfD party, But the UK has become a particular obsession,
(00:39):
with Mask frequently commenting on his social media platform x
about child grooming and rape gangs, laying the blame squarely
at the feet of the six month old labor government.
So why is the tech mogul so interested in politics overseas?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
And how are the US's.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
European allies meant to respond when Mask is firmly in
Trump's inner circle. Today on the Front Page, CNN's senior
political correspondent, Stephen Collinson joins us from Washington, DC to
discuss the thinking behind Mask's political commentary. First off, Stephen,
(01:23):
can you remind us of what Elon Musk's role is
going to be with the incoming Trump administration?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Well, officially, Musk is going to be the co head
of a new agency within the government a de facto
agency called the Department of Government Efficiency. This is a
body which Trump says will come up with recommendations to
slash wasteful government spending and regulations. In fact, many of
(01:52):
the regulations potentially that Elon Musk's companies benefit from or
are constrained by. So that's one of the issues here,
one of the reasons why a lot of people fear
that his presence in the center of the government will
create huge conflicts of interest. But Musk has a finger
and a lot of pies around the world, not just
as the head of Tesla and SpaceX, which has billions
(02:15):
of dollars of contracts from.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
The US government.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
He has businesses in many countries, business interests, for example,
in countries like China that could see clashes with American
foreign policy. So we've never in the modern era had
someone like this, the world's richest man, so intimately entwined
with an administration. So this is a really unprecedented moment, I.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Think, And can you give us a bit of an
overview of some of the ways Mask has intervened in
European politics in recent weeks.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Certainly the most recent one that has caused A great
deal of controversy is his intervening in the issue of
a grooming scandal in the United Kingdom. The current Prime Minister,
Keir Starmer, used to be the Director of Public Prosecutions
in the UK and he was in charge at one
(03:05):
point about a decade ago, of investigating some of these
abuses young women in the North of England. Musk has
resuscitated all the controversy around that, and he's accusing Keir
Starmer falsely in fact, of doing nothing to prosecute these abuses.
So that has caused a huge issue in British politics.
(03:28):
He was also using his social media network x in
the eyes of the British government, incites racial hatred. That's
another issue that has really rocked British politics. But Musk
has also intervened in the German election which will take
place next month. He is backing the AfD, the Alternative
(03:50):
for Germany party, which is a far right wing anti
immigrant party. I think you could argue that there's been
a resurgence of populism in Europe in recent months, and
there are parties in France and Germany and the United
Kingdom that Trump would far rather deal with than the
incumbent governments. So I think we're going to see a
(04:11):
lot of nervousness and a lot of resentment in Europe
if must continue this behavior when Trump is present.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
Those that are spreading lies and in misinformation as far
and as wide as possible, they're not interested in victims,
They're interested in themselves. But I enjoy the cut and
thrust of politics, the robust debate that we must have,
but that's got to be based on facts and truth,
(04:45):
not on lies, not on those who are so desperate
for attention that they're prepared to debase themselves and their country.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
How have Europeans it has responded to Musk's commentary well.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
The British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, who I mentioned, was
compelled to make a statement. He said that Musk had
crossed the line after he said that the British prime
minister responsible for safeguarding children should be jailed. French President
Emmanuel Macron is accusing Musk of backing a knew what
(05:26):
he called international reactionary movement, talking about those parties on
the right. The German government has already criticized Musk for
what they say is interference in their affairs with his
backing for the AfD and in Norway the prime minister there.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
So it was worrying that Musk had so much.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Power and then he had the capacity to intervene in
the affairs of other countries. So I think there is
resentment and it's not just Musk saying things on x
He has a great deal of money. He for example,
put down more than one hundred million dollars of his
own money to back Trump in the election in November.
(06:06):
Trump used some of that money to create turnout efforts
in the key state of Pennsylvania. There's a lot of
speculation about whether Musk will use his money to back
parties in Europe, for example, the Reform Party of Nigel
Farage in the UK, the.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Father of Brexit.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
There was a lot of speculation that Musk could send
millions of dollars to the Reform Party and Opposition Party
in the UK, although that seems to have still because
Farage seems to have fallen out with Musk because he
didn't share the Tesla Pioneer's views about a British guy
called Tommy Robinson who's actually in jail and is accused
(06:46):
by the government of inciting violence. So Musk's money, I
think is going to be a real player in some
of these elections if he decides to do more than
just speak out on X and giving.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Musk is going to be working with the incoming government
the US. Does it make it difficult to kind of
differentiate his reckons online versus actual US foreign policy.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
I think that's going to be a question.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
And the thing that foreign leaders have to ask is
is this Musk just muck raking trying to stir up
trouble just so you liked doing it, or is it
being done on behalf of the president of the United States.
And that brings them to another question. They have to
work out how to respond to Musk and push back
(07:29):
if they want to without alienating future President Donald Trump.
A lot of European Asian governments has spent a lot
of time in the last six months or so trying
to get close to Trump, trying to penetrate his inner
circle in the belief that he could well. As happened
when the election, some of those efforts are now in doubt. Starma,
(07:52):
for example, had dinner with Trump before the election and
believe that he had made strides in getting a good
relationship with the present elect that could be in jeopardy
if Trump sees Starma criticizing Elon Musk. So I think
it's going to be a very complex issue for some
(08:13):
of these governments to work out whether Musk is really
pushing official American policy or whether he's just pushing policies
that favor his mirial of business interests.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Well, there was a battle amongst Magas circles over the holidays,
with Musk and fellow DOGE boss Vivek Ramaswami clashing with
other Republicans over.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Visas for skilled workers. Trump seemed to side with the
tech bros on this one.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
But what do you think this saga suggests about the
next four years.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
I think this is a this is.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
A fascinating argument, and I think it's one that tells
us that some things in Trump's second term could be
different from his first term. The issue was over H
one B visas, which allow tech companies to bring highly
qualified engineers and software experts and programmers into the United
(09:13):
States to work, and they're used a great deal in
Silicon Valley companies. The traditional Trump based people like Steve Bannon,
Trump's former populist political guru, are against these visas. Much
of the Trump bases anti immigration. People like Bannons say
that the visas allow US firms to undercut wages that
(09:34):
they should be paying to American workers. Musk and a
lot of the leading Silicon Valley executives argue that in
order for America's software and tech industry sustay competitive with
countries like China, you have to be able to import
the best talent wherever they're from. Must says that he
(09:54):
himself as an example of this. Of course, he was
born in South Africa. So this is a fault line
between the two wings of the new Trump coalition, the
existing magabase and the new, as you call it, the
tech bro Maga constituency. I think we're going to see
classes again and again on this fault line in the
(10:16):
next administration. And it's particularly interesting because during his first term,
Donald Trump rarely got crossways with his political base. He's
not a politician that builds up political capital and spends
it in a lot of different situations, especially on the
issue of immigration, but also on gun control and other issues.
(10:38):
Trump backed down in things he was going to do
because they were unpopular with his base. So we get
to a point now when we're asking will he side
with his traditional supporters, his nationalist, populist heartland supporters, or
will he go with these people in the new coalition,
people like Elon Musk, And I think that's going to
(10:59):
be a source of constant tension in the months ahead.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
The new one is president Trump proceeded the presidency Musk. No, No,
that's that happening.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
But Elon has done an amazing job.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Isn't it nice to have smart.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
People that we could rely on.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
No, he's not going to be president. That I can't
tell you, and I'm safe. You know why he can't be.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
He wasn't born in this country.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Ah, do you think Musk will eventually become a thorn
in Trump's side?
Speaker 3 (11:40):
So a lot of people spend a lot of time
since Musk became this ubiquitous companion of the present elect,
predicting that sooner or later they would fall out. Generally,
people that come into Trump's in the circle always end
up falling out with the present elect.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
He often looks for culprits when they go wrong.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
He believes that he should get all the headlines and
the adulation, and Musk is a competing star in the
Trump orbit. Right now, he's getting far more headlines than
the present elect himself. So a lot of people think
it's a matter of time before they clash. I believe
that there are many reasons why, even if the relationship
(12:22):
cools somewhat, it is in both the interests of Trump
and Musk to make sure that it stays in good
standing at least for the next couple of years. Musk
is going to be in a very advantageous position. He's
going to be able to reshape the US regulatory regime
that in a way that could help his companies. It
(12:43):
wouldn't be at all surprising if he gets billions more
in contracts. He's basically at this point running much of
the US space program, the push to return to the
Moon and Mars, so he doesn't want to take any
steps that I think alienate him from the next President Trump.
When you look at Trump, Musk doesn't seem like the
(13:04):
kind of enemy that the president elect really would like
to have to deal with. He's hugely powerful, not just
because of his business interests, but he tweets or I
don't know what you call it, X is now on
X plentiful times a day.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
He could turn.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Out to be a real theign in his side, as
you suggest, if they fall out and Republicans they've got
their eyes on Musk's money. They want to use Musk's
wealth in the midterm elections in November twenty twenty six,
elections that could, if history tells us anything, be quite
tough for the incumbent Republican Party. So there are many
(13:41):
reasons why Musk and Trump have incentives not to fall
out with one another.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
How much do you think we can rip out of
this wasted six point five trillion.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Dollar horse five? Well, I think we can do at
least two trillion.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I mean, at the end of the day, you're being taxed,
your money is being wasted, and.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
The Apartment of Government demasiency is going.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
To fix that. America's not not It's just going to
be great. America is going to reach heights that it
has never seen before.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
The future is gonna be amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
You've written, they, as in Trump and Mask, are demonstrating
a belief that their strength allows them to bully smaller
countries and may auger a new and brasher incarnation of America. First, now,
this line struck me because, of course New Zealand is
a smaller country.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Do you think it's only a matter of.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Time before the focus perhaps shifts from Europe to say,
the Pacific.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I think for now the major focus is the Western Hemisphere.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
For Trump.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
He is threatening twenty five percent taris on Canada, he
is threatening to take back the Panama Canal by force,
looking at Transatlantic securities, talking about trying to buy Greenland again.
I think we're also very likely to see tariff threats
against the European Union as soon as Trump gets back
into office. I think New Zealand would have the bad
(15:24):
luck to get to get Trump's I if somebody in
Trump's in a circle mentioned something about New Zealand. Often
Trump's resentments and anger towards foreign countries is stirred by
someone he meets. So perhaps it would be smart of
the New Zealand government to take care not to do
anything that catches Trump's eye and hope, as many other
(15:47):
governments will, that the initial storm of the start of
his new presidency will pass.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
But Trump, generally when.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
He sees people down at Mara Lago, he has a
very wide circle of friends who bring him and there's
a theory that one of his friends, for instance, might
be a shipping magnet was complaining about the cost of
shipping stuff through the Panama Canal, and that's what got
Trump angry. But he does take a very transactional view
of the world. I think he sees the world and
(16:14):
he sees life really through a prism of who is
strong and who is weak. And he believes that he
and the United States are strong and they have the
right to push narrow national interests. And if he perceives
at some point that United States interests are being compromised
by New Zealand in some way, that would be I
think when he turns is his attention to you guys.
(16:36):
So hopefully for now at least, he's got other targets.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
And what do you think Mask's end game is here?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Ultimately, what does he want to get out of being
seen as this kind of power behind the throne.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
It's a good question, and he's not really spoken about this.
I think that he clearly seems to enjoy being part
of the spotlight. He's been around trumpet Mara Lago for
much of the time since Trump's election victory. I expect
we'll see him play a prominent role in the inauguration.
(17:08):
He has been in meetings with Trump with world leaders,
taking part in phone calls, for example, with President Zelanski.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
So he clearly has a lot of you know, he
doesn't need any more money.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
He's already the richest man in the world, but he
seems to very much enjoy wielding the influence that he
gets by proximity to the most powerful man in the world.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
What he will do.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Afterwards, I mean, Trump can only be in office for
four more years, for example, does it get to a
point where Musk gets bored of politics, where he finds,
for example, that the business of trying to cut trillions
of dollars in the US budget is a very difficult
business and one that's not that interesting. It's possible that
he could get bored from politics and you know find
(17:55):
you know, launching rockets and designing electric cars is a
much more interesting of his time. But I don't think
we really know exactly what he wants, and that's one
of the things we'll be watching and seeing how prominent
a role he does take, not just in cutting the
size of government, but in Trump's in a circle on
whether he gets to wield even more power than he
(18:17):
does already.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Thanks for joining us, Steven no Warris.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzedherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
our sound engineer.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look
behind the headlines.
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