September 15, 2024 • 19 mins
It’s Māori Language Week – where Kiwis are encouraged to have a go at te reo.
Whereas the language was once on a pathway to extinction, now it’s flourishing as people flock to learn it.
But a change in government last year saw restrictions placed on how the public service uses te reo – one of many policies that has been seen as an attack on Māori rights.
Today on The Front Page, we’re joined by AUT professor Dr Ella Henry to discuss some of those policies, and how we can still celebrate Aotearoa’s indigenous language.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Susie Nordqvist
Sound Engineer: Dan Goodwin
Producer: Ethan Sills
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hedda.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm Susan Nordquist and for Chelsea Daniels. And this is
the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New
Zealand Herald. It's t Wiki or teal Maori Language Week.
Wikiwi's are encouraged to have a go at terel. Whereas
the language was once on a pathway to extinction, it's
(00:27):
now flourishing as people flocked to learn it. But a
change in government last year saw restrictions placed on how
the public service usesterrel, one of many policies that has
been seen as an attack on Maldi rights. Today on
the Front Page, we are joined by aut professor doctor
Ali Henry to discuss some of those policies and how
we can still celebrate old Tuto's indigenous language.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Ala.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
This year's Malori Language Week comes a little under a
year since the Coalition government was sworn in. As part
of that coalition agreement between National and New Zealand, first
government departments had to revert to putting their English names first,
and it also required public service departments and Crown entities
to communicate primarily in English. What do you make of
(01:16):
this change?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Well, it's been one hundred and eighty four years since
we signed Tinnity or White Jongy. So this is not
the first time that a government of New Zealand has
tried to suppress the Maori language. In many ways, many
would argue that this has been going on for decades,
if not generations, But this is a new iteration of
(01:39):
that same strand of thinking. I believe that is tied
to a broader issue to make fundamental changes to the
founding Document of our nation which envisaged partnership between Tungata
Fenua and tongue to tidity. So I see it as
part of a broader campaign to negative impact on Mary,
(02:01):
not just to the l Maori.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So, in your view, is the government trying to suppress
the language.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I don't think it's supposedly a whole of government approach,
but because of the particularities of this coalition, there is
certainly a party act which has been trying to impact
on treaty principles. Remember back in two thousand and eight,
Rodney Hyde proposed a similar bill in a less conducive
(02:29):
environment about removing from government legislation the requirement to take
tetinity into consideration with all legislations. So this has been
an ongoing project for a particular political party that is
now very powerful in the current coalition, woke.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Virtue signaling and mary place names for government departments with
target says. In New Zealand First Leader Winston Peter's launched
his campaign for the twenty twenty three election, it told
supporters an attacked church in East Auckland that it was
time to take the country back and.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
In New Zealand First, we will change all the local
virtue signing names of every government department back to English.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters said on the campaign
trail that this policy was not an attack on the language.
It's an attack on the elite virtual signalers who have
hijacked the language for their own socialist means. How do
you interpret a statement like that.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
There are so many strange statements in there, coming from
a man who in decades past has actually been a
very strong supporter of Maori development, Maori people, Maori revitalization.
So one has to wonder where that is coming from
as a particular philosophy. But this ongoing notion's perpetuation of
(03:53):
an idea that somehow there is a Maori elite flies
in the face of all.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Of the actual facts.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Marii are more likely to die earlier, Maori are less
likely to own a home, Maori are more likely to
be incarcerated. Mary are less likely to have tertiary education.
So I'm really wondering where this teeny tiny group of
elitd that Winston Peters talks about.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
It sounds a bit like they're mainly his friends.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Okay, this policy it even saw a Justice Minister, Paul
Goldsmith intervene to remove words like altero from an official
invite for Matariki that was sent to an Australian counterpart.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Minister.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Quite hey, why did you ask officials to take Alto
and Malti greetings out of these Martariki invites?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Well? As as I recall, it was.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
In relation to sending an invitation to an Australian minister,
and I didn't think he needed a lot of terreo
in his invitation because he's in Australian.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, I mean, of all time, the scandal of the century,
I would have thought.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Does that seem like a step too far to you?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Well, I think that is absolutely extraordinary. In a year
when the Leader of our Commonwealth, King Charles was quite
happy to use the phrase alter or New Zealand in
his statement of commiseration to the king Eytongue at the
loss of King E two hated. So if King Charles
(05:18):
is comfortable with it, I'm not terribly sure why a
New Zealand government should be uncomfortable with the idea of
us being alter.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Or New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And, as I say frequently, if we actually did change
our name to Alta or New Zealand, do you know
what we'd get to come out before Australia at the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Now, wouldn't that be fun?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
That's a very good point, thank you, Ella. Do you
think the Coalition is undermining the growth of the language
with these views?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Let's start by the fact that the language almost became
extinct because of government policy, and it was Maui, it
was communities. It was Ewe Fano Hapu who began the
tiny little language nests in the late seventies and the
early eighties, which have finally been converted into a specific
Maori education. Could a copapa Marii education system, which we
(06:11):
know works extraordinarily well for Mardi people, but more importantly,
the numbers of people New Zealanders who are enrolled in
todeal Maori courses Maori and non Maori. Shows that this
language has been taken to heart by a significant majority
of people in this country. And we hear it every
(06:32):
night on the news, and we hear it every day
when people refer to those ministries that are supposed to
be known by their English names, but we ordinary New
Zealanders choose to keep on using those tonal names. Shows
that this latest battle against our language may not be successful.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Are we still seeing that interest from across somewhat for
learning the language.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, I think we've had three extraordinary events this year.
We had the Hui Amort, which the King Echangueill called
earlier in the year, in which tens of thousands of
people came out around the country about, you know, protesting
about these very pieces of legislation. Then we had a
White Tungi Day, which I was so grateful to be
at for the whole week, and you know, on the
(07:18):
last day it was estimated that fifty thousand people were
at White Tongi and at least half of those were
not Maudi, and they were proudly carrying bags and wearing
t shirts saying we stand with Maudi.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I was in the political tent.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
When you know the Japanese group, and the Indonesian group,
and the Chinese group, and the Sikh group and the
Irish group, you know, all of these other cultures who
understand the importance of culture and identity and language and
feel that enriches not impoverished as a nation.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
They were the ones.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
And then, of course we saw the outpouring of grief,
most recently at the tongue hunger for KINGI to hate
her and amwortately the positive energy that came about with
the coronation of the new Aliki Nui. So I believe
genuinely that this language is alive and well in the
(08:12):
hearts and minds of many many New Zealanders, most of
whom might be Maui, but a growing number who have
children and grandchildren who go to school and learn a
Hakka and awayata and Akutakia. And it doesn't matter about
their ethnicity, because that thing is what makes them unique
and distinctive in the world. So this language is flourishing,
(08:33):
despite ravages by a government hell bent on taking away
that success.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
It must be quite heartening to see this interest in
the language, given the repression of tenel in the past.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I am so heartened.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I mean, I am part of that generation who my
parents were beaten savagely, were part born at the very
beginning of the last century, and they wanted to protect us.
They gave it the most English sounding names they possibly could.
They tried really hard not to speak the language at home.
They did that to protect us because they genuinely believed
(09:12):
that was the only way to save our people. Moving forward,
it's my children's generation and my grandchildren's generation that are
making a difference because they are the ones who are
embracing all of their ethnicities. They are one hundred percent Maui,
one hundred percent Dalmatian, one hundred percent Irish. It is
a very racist notion that you can put a blood
(09:32):
quantum on culture and identity.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Some of the worst racism that you've experienced in your life.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Well, I'm seventy, so you know I've been around through
a bush of stuff. I mean, I was born in
the fifties in a small town in the far North
where I didn't meet a white man until I went
to school to ahi part of Native school, and he
was the principal, and you know, my parents would walk
down the streets of Kaitai, and when a white man
and woman came along, they would moved to the side,
(10:00):
because we had all inculcated the idea that we were
inferior and that we had to get out of the
way of the white man and the white woman. And
then I moved to the city where came from Kaitaia
to New Lynn, where my father worked in the factory
and my mother the tanneries, and my mother worked across
the road at the potteries. And I found out I
was brown. Who knew up in Kaitai because we were
(10:22):
all the same color. I found out I was poor.
I found out that I couldn't go to my friend's
house because I was a dirty mary. You know, so
you inculcate that stuff as a small child, and it
has the potential to break you. I am very fortunate,
and education played an enormous role in that change in
my thinking and therefore the thinking of my entire far
(10:43):
no far nui. I was one who said that can't
be right. We can't be this insignificant. You know, the
people I know are beautiful and warm and kind. Why
does everybody hate us? And the fact that in the
last fifty years that has transformed, that has become a norm.
You stand end up in front of a hakka of
five hundred school students, or you watch the all Blacks
(11:06):
and you your heart fills with pride to be a
new Zealander. I just watched the team at the Palace
meeting King Charles and singing a beautiful wiater. These strengths,
(11:42):
these contributions we are making through our culture and identity
cannot be changed by pieces of legislation.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Muli Language Week started a few days after the latest
developments in the proposed Treaty Principal's Bill. The bill was
discussed at Cabinet last week, but it seems to be
caught in this quagmire between act who are pushing the
bill and National with Prime Minister Chris Luxon already indicating
he won't support it beyond a first reading. Are you
concerned about how this conversation could go between now and
(12:26):
this supposed point where it's killed off.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Even if this bill is killed off as it goes
through Parliament, And it seems that maybe the case, what
it is done is created an environment that has encouraged
increasing levels of race hatred. And I'm using that term,
and I know it's a strong term, but we are
seeing it and you and the media would also be
hearing about it in terms of the gates of anger
(12:52):
and frustration are opened by pieces of legislation like this,
and what David Seymour says is supposed to be beginning
a positive conversation maybe aboard, it's actually becoming a groundswell
of negativity. And I worry about that because I genuinely
believe as a nation, over the last fifty years, New
(13:14):
Zealand has become known internationally as being a leader at
working with its indigenous people, at building a culture that
unites our diverse groups of nationalities. We're known for this internationally,
and legislation like this is going to have an enormously
negative impact, I believe on that image that we hold globally.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You know, this is a force for good.
Speaker 6 (13:39):
This is a positive initiative. Far from changing or diminishing
the treaty, it actually embeds it in legislation, and far
from reducing rights so mariti it actually generalizes and strengthens them.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Why is it so important to revitalize the language.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
I think a culture is maintained by its language.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
It is the most important thing.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I mean, you and I are here speaking in English,
and this is a language that has been impacted by
every other culture. Half the words we speak are either
French or Latin or Greek.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I mean the language stays alive because it is spoken
because as it has cared about and ours almost died,
and if it had a part of Maori identity would
have died with it. The fact that it has been
revitalized and strengthened, not just by Maori, shows that it
has relevance. Words like farno have come into being to
(14:37):
mean much more than just mum, dad and three kids.
Being able to have a porphany when you start a
new job, and feeling that sense of connection, attending a
tonguey hunger where grief is allowed to be in outpointing things.
These are things that Maori culture and identity have brought
to New Zealand society, and what's more, they add to
our brand. There are tourists that come in their hordes
(14:59):
from all all over the world to experience Maori culture
and so what we bring is not just a language,
not just a people, but a part of our brand.
As you can see on every single plane that air.
New Zealand flies around the world with one of our
most ancient symbols, the quardu on it. So what is
good for Maudi is good for New Zealand. What is
(15:20):
good for Mali culture is good for the New Zealand economy.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It's Maori language Week this week. How can people celebrate.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
I love the fact that during to a ky or
toel Maudi, I can go into places where I ordinarily
wouldn't and the storekeeper will go Curda, or people will
say Curda on the streets or morderner. You don't have
to be a fluent speaker of Todel Maudi. That is
a very special gift. But you can be a user
(15:49):
of the language. You can be somebody who says, this
is something that makes me different.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I have my own life. You know.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Most New Zealanders, now, because we have such a diverse population,
are already multi lingual. They already speak the language of
their homeland and English and are quite happy to add
a third because it helps give a deeper understanding of
the names of the places and the history and that
the culture, and so those little acts of saying Kurda
(16:16):
are as important as being able to stand up and
be part of the man who cordia or speech. There
are competition that our young folk had last week. As
far as I'm concerned, it's about embracing language and seeing
that it adds to who and what you are, regardless
of your ethnic identity.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So saying kyorda can help people adopted into their lives
and spread the language. What are some other things they
can do?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Well? We all acknowledge that, as I said, the importance
of farno, and so you have schools who create little
farno groups and support teams. You know, there are words
in the Maui language like kaitiaki tanga. Now there's an
interesting word to be a guardian, to be a steward
of our mother the earth. Kaitiakitanga is woven into legislation
(17:01):
that protects our country from mining exploitation. Isn't it interesting
that a piece of language like that is trying to
be expunged from that legislation that is protecting our country
from mining exploitation.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Ala, you were speaking about how people learning the language
can help in other parts of society too. Can you
speak to that.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Well, I think it's not so much about learning the language,
but it's about enhancing identity. And I see this because
I work at Auckland University of Technology. We ran the
classes where a number of very prominent non Maori media
journalists Jennifer Ward Leland, Jack Tay and guy On Espiner
all came and did their classes up at AUT. So
(17:45):
I see the faces of those people who are going
into these classes and the relationships that are formed out
of going on this journey together. So I think it's
actually about strengthening our identity as New Zealanders. I mean
the very word that non Maori used to describe themselves kiwi.
It's a Maori word. And I shall remember that bloke
(18:07):
you put the signs up going ewei versus ewe, and
I was interviewed with them. I said, well, thank you
for still using a Maori word to describe yourself, even
though you're anti Mary. I mean, we don't even realize
how much the language and culture have permeated our society
until we go elsewhere and see that they don't do
the things that we take for granted in this country
because of the weaving together of Maori and British and
(18:30):
every other culture that now forms the society that.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
We share Namihi nui.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Ala Elder Nummi.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverageet
inzet Herald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sells Dan Goodwin as the sounder engineer.
I'm Susie Nordquist. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio
or Weary that you get your podcasts in June and
(19:02):
tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
Hedda.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm Susan Nordquist and for Chelsea Daniels. And this is
the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New
Zealand Herald. It's t Wiki or teal Maori Language Week.
Wikiwi's are encouraged to have a go at terel. Whereas
the language was once on a pathway to extinction, it's
(00:27):
now flourishing as people flocked to learn it. But a
change in government last year saw restrictions placed on how
the public service usesterrel, one of many policies that has
been seen as an attack on Maldi rights. Today on
the Front Page, we are joined by aut professor doctor
Ali Henry to discuss some of those policies and how
we can still celebrate old Tuto's indigenous language.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Ala.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
This year's Malori Language Week comes a little under a
year since the Coalition government was sworn in. As part
of that coalition agreement between National and New Zealand, first
government departments had to revert to putting their English names first,
and it also required public service departments and Crown entities
to communicate primarily in English. What do you make of
(01:16):
this change?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Well, it's been one hundred and eighty four years since
we signed Tinnity or White Jongy. So this is not
the first time that a government of New Zealand has
tried to suppress the Maori language. In many ways, many
would argue that this has been going on for decades,
if not generations, But this is a new iteration of
(01:39):
that same strand of thinking. I believe that is tied
to a broader issue to make fundamental changes to the
founding Document of our nation which envisaged partnership between Tungata
Fenua and tongue to tidity. So I see it as
part of a broader campaign to negative impact on Mary,
(02:01):
not just to the l Maori.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So, in your view, is the government trying to suppress
the language.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I don't think it's supposedly a whole of government approach,
but because of the particularities of this coalition, there is
certainly a party act which has been trying to impact
on treaty principles. Remember back in two thousand and eight,
Rodney Hyde proposed a similar bill in a less conducive
(02:29):
environment about removing from government legislation the requirement to take
tetinity into consideration with all legislations. So this has been
an ongoing project for a particular political party that is
now very powerful in the current coalition, woke.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Virtue signaling and mary place names for government departments with
target says. In New Zealand First Leader Winston Peter's launched
his campaign for the twenty twenty three election, it told
supporters an attacked church in East Auckland that it was
time to take the country back and.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
In New Zealand First, we will change all the local
virtue signing names of every government department back to English.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters said on the campaign
trail that this policy was not an attack on the language.
It's an attack on the elite virtual signalers who have
hijacked the language for their own socialist means. How do
you interpret a statement like that.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
There are so many strange statements in there, coming from
a man who in decades past has actually been a
very strong supporter of Maori development, Maori people, Maori revitalization.
So one has to wonder where that is coming from
as a particular philosophy. But this ongoing notion's perpetuation of
(03:53):
an idea that somehow there is a Maori elite flies
in the face of all.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Of the actual facts.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Marii are more likely to die earlier, Maori are less
likely to own a home, Maori are more likely to
be incarcerated. Mary are less likely to have tertiary education.
So I'm really wondering where this teeny tiny group of
elitd that Winston Peters talks about.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
It sounds a bit like they're mainly his friends.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Okay, this policy it even saw a Justice Minister, Paul
Goldsmith intervene to remove words like altero from an official
invite for Matariki that was sent to an Australian counterpart.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Minister.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Quite hey, why did you ask officials to take Alto
and Malti greetings out of these Martariki invites?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Well? As as I recall, it was.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
In relation to sending an invitation to an Australian minister,
and I didn't think he needed a lot of terreo
in his invitation because he's in Australian.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, I mean, of all time, the scandal of the century,
I would have thought.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Does that seem like a step too far to you?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Well, I think that is absolutely extraordinary. In a year
when the Leader of our Commonwealth, King Charles was quite
happy to use the phrase alter or New Zealand in
his statement of commiseration to the king Eytongue at the
loss of King E two hated. So if King Charles
(05:18):
is comfortable with it, I'm not terribly sure why a
New Zealand government should be uncomfortable with the idea of
us being alter.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Or New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And, as I say frequently, if we actually did change
our name to Alta or New Zealand, do you know
what we'd get to come out before Australia at the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Now, wouldn't that be fun?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
That's a very good point, thank you, Ella. Do you
think the Coalition is undermining the growth of the language
with these views?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Let's start by the fact that the language almost became
extinct because of government policy, and it was Maui, it
was communities. It was Ewe Fano Hapu who began the
tiny little language nests in the late seventies and the
early eighties, which have finally been converted into a specific
Maori education. Could a copapa Marii education system, which we
(06:11):
know works extraordinarily well for Mardi people, but more importantly,
the numbers of people New Zealanders who are enrolled in
todeal Maori courses Maori and non Maori. Shows that this
language has been taken to heart by a significant majority
of people in this country. And we hear it every
(06:32):
night on the news, and we hear it every day
when people refer to those ministries that are supposed to
be known by their English names, but we ordinary New
Zealanders choose to keep on using those tonal names. Shows
that this latest battle against our language may not be successful.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Are we still seeing that interest from across somewhat for
learning the language.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, I think we've had three extraordinary events this year.
We had the Hui Amort, which the King Echangueill called
earlier in the year, in which tens of thousands of
people came out around the country about, you know, protesting
about these very pieces of legislation. Then we had a
White Tungi Day, which I was so grateful to be
at for the whole week, and you know, on the
(07:18):
last day it was estimated that fifty thousand people were
at White Tongi and at least half of those were
not Maudi, and they were proudly carrying bags and wearing
t shirts saying we stand with Maudi.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I was in the political tent.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
When you know the Japanese group, and the Indonesian group,
and the Chinese group, and the Sikh group and the
Irish group, you know, all of these other cultures who
understand the importance of culture and identity and language and
feel that enriches not impoverished as a nation.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
They were the ones.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
And then, of course we saw the outpouring of grief,
most recently at the tongue hunger for KINGI to hate
her and amwortately the positive energy that came about with
the coronation of the new Aliki Nui. So I believe
genuinely that this language is alive and well in the
(08:12):
hearts and minds of many many New Zealanders, most of
whom might be Maui, but a growing number who have
children and grandchildren who go to school and learn a
Hakka and awayata and Akutakia. And it doesn't matter about
their ethnicity, because that thing is what makes them unique
and distinctive in the world. So this language is flourishing,
(08:33):
despite ravages by a government hell bent on taking away
that success.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
It must be quite heartening to see this interest in
the language, given the repression of tenel in the past.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I am so heartened.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I mean, I am part of that generation who my
parents were beaten savagely, were part born at the very
beginning of the last century, and they wanted to protect us.
They gave it the most English sounding names they possibly could.
They tried really hard not to speak the language at home.
They did that to protect us because they genuinely believed
(09:12):
that was the only way to save our people. Moving forward,
it's my children's generation and my grandchildren's generation that are
making a difference because they are the ones who are
embracing all of their ethnicities. They are one hundred percent Maui,
one hundred percent Dalmatian, one hundred percent Irish. It is
a very racist notion that you can put a blood
(09:32):
quantum on culture and identity.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Some of the worst racism that you've experienced in your life.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Well, I'm seventy, so you know I've been around through
a bush of stuff. I mean, I was born in
the fifties in a small town in the far North
where I didn't meet a white man until I went
to school to ahi part of Native school, and he
was the principal, and you know, my parents would walk
down the streets of Kaitai, and when a white man
and woman came along, they would moved to the side,
(10:00):
because we had all inculcated the idea that we were
inferior and that we had to get out of the
way of the white man and the white woman. And
then I moved to the city where came from Kaitaia
to New Lynn, where my father worked in the factory
and my mother the tanneries, and my mother worked across
the road at the potteries. And I found out I
was brown. Who knew up in Kaitai because we were
(10:22):
all the same color. I found out I was poor.
I found out that I couldn't go to my friend's
house because I was a dirty mary. You know, so
you inculcate that stuff as a small child, and it
has the potential to break you. I am very fortunate,
and education played an enormous role in that change in
my thinking and therefore the thinking of my entire far
(10:43):
no far nui. I was one who said that can't
be right. We can't be this insignificant. You know, the
people I know are beautiful and warm and kind. Why
does everybody hate us? And the fact that in the
last fifty years that has transformed, that has become a norm.
You stand end up in front of a hakka of
five hundred school students, or you watch the all Blacks
(11:06):
and you your heart fills with pride to be a
new Zealander. I just watched the team at the Palace
meeting King Charles and singing a beautiful wiater. These strengths,
(11:42):
these contributions we are making through our culture and identity
cannot be changed by pieces of legislation.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Muli Language Week started a few days after the latest
developments in the proposed Treaty Principal's Bill. The bill was
discussed at Cabinet last week, but it seems to be
caught in this quagmire between act who are pushing the
bill and National with Prime Minister Chris Luxon already indicating
he won't support it beyond a first reading. Are you
concerned about how this conversation could go between now and
(12:26):
this supposed point where it's killed off.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Even if this bill is killed off as it goes
through Parliament, And it seems that maybe the case, what
it is done is created an environment that has encouraged
increasing levels of race hatred. And I'm using that term,
and I know it's a strong term, but we are
seeing it and you and the media would also be
hearing about it in terms of the gates of anger
(12:52):
and frustration are opened by pieces of legislation like this,
and what David Seymour says is supposed to be beginning
a positive conversation maybe aboard, it's actually becoming a groundswell
of negativity. And I worry about that because I genuinely
believe as a nation, over the last fifty years, New
(13:14):
Zealand has become known internationally as being a leader at
working with its indigenous people, at building a culture that
unites our diverse groups of nationalities. We're known for this internationally,
and legislation like this is going to have an enormously
negative impact, I believe on that image that we hold globally.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You know, this is a force for good.
Speaker 6 (13:39):
This is a positive initiative. Far from changing or diminishing
the treaty, it actually embeds it in legislation, and far
from reducing rights so mariti it actually generalizes and strengthens them.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Why is it so important to revitalize the language.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
I think a culture is maintained by its language.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
It is the most important thing.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I mean, you and I are here speaking in English,
and this is a language that has been impacted by
every other culture. Half the words we speak are either
French or Latin or Greek.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I mean the language stays alive because it is spoken
because as it has cared about and ours almost died,
and if it had a part of Maori identity would
have died with it. The fact that it has been
revitalized and strengthened, not just by Maori, shows that it
has relevance. Words like farno have come into being to
(14:37):
mean much more than just mum, dad and three kids.
Being able to have a porphany when you start a
new job, and feeling that sense of connection, attending a
tonguey hunger where grief is allowed to be in outpointing things.
These are things that Maori culture and identity have brought
to New Zealand society, and what's more, they add to
our brand. There are tourists that come in their hordes
(14:59):
from all all over the world to experience Maori culture
and so what we bring is not just a language,
not just a people, but a part of our brand.
As you can see on every single plane that air.
New Zealand flies around the world with one of our
most ancient symbols, the quardu on it. So what is
good for Maudi is good for New Zealand. What is
(15:20):
good for Mali culture is good for the New Zealand economy.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It's Maori language Week this week. How can people celebrate.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
I love the fact that during to a ky or
toel Maudi, I can go into places where I ordinarily
wouldn't and the storekeeper will go Curda, or people will
say Curda on the streets or morderner. You don't have
to be a fluent speaker of Todel Maudi. That is
a very special gift. But you can be a user
(15:49):
of the language. You can be somebody who says, this
is something that makes me different.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I have my own life. You know.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Most New Zealanders, now, because we have such a diverse population,
are already multi lingual. They already speak the language of
their homeland and English and are quite happy to add
a third because it helps give a deeper understanding of
the names of the places and the history and that
the culture, and so those little acts of saying Kurda
(16:16):
are as important as being able to stand up and
be part of the man who cordia or speech. There
are competition that our young folk had last week. As
far as I'm concerned, it's about embracing language and seeing
that it adds to who and what you are, regardless
of your ethnic identity.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So saying kyorda can help people adopted into their lives
and spread the language. What are some other things they
can do?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Well? We all acknowledge that, as I said, the importance
of farno, and so you have schools who create little
farno groups and support teams. You know, there are words
in the Maui language like kaitiaki tanga. Now there's an
interesting word to be a guardian, to be a steward
of our mother the earth. Kaitiakitanga is woven into legislation
(17:01):
that protects our country from mining exploitation. Isn't it interesting
that a piece of language like that is trying to
be expunged from that legislation that is protecting our country
from mining exploitation.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Ala, you were speaking about how people learning the language
can help in other parts of society too. Can you
speak to that.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Well, I think it's not so much about learning the language,
but it's about enhancing identity. And I see this because
I work at Auckland University of Technology. We ran the
classes where a number of very prominent non Maori media
journalists Jennifer Ward Leland, Jack Tay and guy On Espiner
all came and did their classes up at AUT. So
(17:45):
I see the faces of those people who are going
into these classes and the relationships that are formed out
of going on this journey together. So I think it's
actually about strengthening our identity as New Zealanders. I mean
the very word that non Maori used to describe themselves kiwi.
It's a Maori word. And I shall remember that bloke
(18:07):
you put the signs up going ewei versus ewe, and
I was interviewed with them. I said, well, thank you
for still using a Maori word to describe yourself, even
though you're anti Mary. I mean, we don't even realize
how much the language and culture have permeated our society
until we go elsewhere and see that they don't do
the things that we take for granted in this country
because of the weaving together of Maori and British and
(18:30):
every other culture that now forms the society that.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
We share Namihi nui.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Ala Elder Nummi.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverageet
inzet Herald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sells Dan Goodwin as the sounder engineer.
I'm Susie Nordquist. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio
or Weary that you get your podcasts in June and
(19:02):
tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
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