December 18, 2024 • 41 mins
It’s been a huge year for sport here in New Zealand.
In one weekend in October, Team New Zealand took to the water in Barcelona and took home the America’s Cup for the third time in a row, while the White Ferns won the ICC T20 Women’s World Cup final.
There were major wins across the board for the Black Caps, the Silver Ferns, and our latest football team, Auckland FC.
But in this major year, there was perhaps no bigger cause for celebration than the Paris Olympics, when Kiwi athletes bagged more gold medals at Paris 2024 than at any other Olympic Games in history.
On this special sports-themed compilation episode of The Front Page, we're looking back at some of the best conversations we've had around the year in sport.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Sound Engineer/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Ethan Sills
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kiyota.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is a compilation episode of
The Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New
Zealand Herald. It's been a huge year for sport here
in New Zealand. In one weekend in October, Team New
Zealand took to the water in Barcelona and took home
(00:28):
the America's Cup for the third time in a row,
while the White Ferns won the ICCT twenty Women's World
Cup Final. There were major wins across the board for
the Black Caps, the Silver Ferns and our latest football team,
Auckland FC. But in this major sporting year, there was
perhaps no bigger cause for celebration than the Paris Olympics.
(00:51):
Krewe athletes bagged more gold medals at Paris than any
other Olympic Games in history, with the likes of Dame
Lisa Harrington and Lydia Coe ensuring their place in the
history books. To rising stars like Hamish Kerr and Finn Butcher,
there were plenty of Kiwi sporting heavyweights in action, with
(01:14):
the games over and the four year journey to Los
Angeles already beginning for some. In August, we recapped the
highs and lows with News Talk z'b's sports reporter and
gold sport commentator Elliott Smith. Elliott, let's start with the highlights.
If you had to pick just one Kiwi medal to celebrate,
(01:35):
which one would it be?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Well, goodness, Chelsea coming in hot early on. Look, I
think for me it'd be the high jump of Hamish Kerr.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I think he.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Overcame some issues in the qualifying and then in the
final just brought her out and was so so good
in that and the drama that came in that with
the jump off and everything like that. You know, New
Zealand's medals in the track and field have been few
and far between. You think of Valerie Adams in recent times.
Tom Walsh to win a gold medal in something like
the high jump I thought was exceptional and just the
(02:04):
celebration racing around Star de France, around the turf and
celebrating in that manner that one stands out to me.
But trying to narrow it down very very difficult. But
I thought that was a pretty special one from a
New Zealand perspective.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
And it's interesting, hey, because they both decided to do
the jump off in the end, and I've seen some
American reports giving the American competitor some slack for being selfish,
whereas in Tokyo didn't they share the medal and then
got the same amount of slack.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
That's right. I don't think you're going to win.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
I think that's always going to be a difficult conversation
because some people will go and like in Tokyo, oh,
you know, it's not really in the what is in
the Olympic spirit, but it isn't to have a shared
gold medal. This time around, they didn't share it, and
there was a distinct gold distinct silver. I think for me,
I thought that was probably the way to go about it.
You've come this far, you're going to get the least
silver anyway, why not try and split it and go
for the gold. I thought it added extra drama, extra tension. Look,
(02:55):
I'm sure what a being special for Hamish Curre if
he shared the gold medal, But in some ways sharing
the gold almost like sharing a silver. It's not quite
as distinct as the two. Whereas with Hamish Kerr, now
he knows he is the best high jumper in the world.
He's won the Olympic gold medal, he's not sharing it
with anyone, and he gets there on his own.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So Dame Lisa Carrington the goat in the boat with
eight golds. Now she's now ranked sixteenth of all time,
ahead of a Usane Bolt, the only New Zealander in
the top one hundred ready.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
To race in the women's kayak for if they can't
see the finish line, it is gold for New Zealand
and the sixth golden moment for Dame Lisa. New Zealand's
supposed to decorate an Olympian. Lisa Carrington strikes gold again.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Are we ever going to see another one like her?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
I don't know that we will, and we should treasure
it for as long as her career lasts. Whether she
decides to go again for LA in four years time
or decides that that's enough, you wouldn't blame her either way.
If he decides that her eight gold medals is enough,
then ghisolutely good on her. But the success that she's
had in not only the individual by but what she's
brought to the K two and the K four has
(04:02):
been immense for New Zealand and I think obviously she's
our greatest Olympian, But just looking at the way that
she brings others up to her skill level. In the
K two and the K four, they wouldn't win without her.
She's like that motor right at the front of the boat.
She's so metronomic in the way that she gets in
the kayak. Obviously she's got incredible strength, but there's something
that she just seems to have a symbiotic relationship with
(04:23):
the boat and the water and the paddle that when
she gets on the water, she is completely unstoppable. She
knows the beats that she has to hit, she knows
where she needs to be to win a race, and
she pulls along the other person in the boat and
the K to the other three in the K four
without wanting to diminish their success as well. But she's
so integral to that. So we need to absolutely treasure
while at last, and to think that she's been at
(04:43):
the top of her game in a number of boats
right from London twenty twelve through to this Olympics in
twenty twenty four, now at thirty five years of age,
through twelve years of success and no one has really
got close to her, especially in the individual events, is remarkable. Look,
I wouldn't all out going to Los Angeles in four
years time. She doesn't look like she is being close
(05:05):
to me in court yet, especially in the individual boats.
So hey, we might see her extend on that success
as in New Zealander and maybe try and catch some
of those others that are at the top of the
all timetable.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
For the world.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Well, after she did her races, it looked like she
could go and do them again.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
She definitely seems to FaZe that she's done the race,
and everyone else looks like they're about to vomit on
the block once they get out, and she's like fresh
as a daisy. It's remarkable that she can do that.
And you know, thirty five, she's still young. A lot
of the competitors around and the clerking seem to go to.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Their to late thirty.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So it's probably a fifty to fifty call as to
whether she competes again, and LA certainly didn't close the
door on that necessarily, so I imagine she'll take some
time now to figure out whether she does want to
go out to LA and where that competitive energy still
burns bright. And already what she's done as Schelsea has
been remarkable. If she was able to build on that
in La it would be quite incredible.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And I can see her hanging around the Olympics as
well and really building up the younger generations like she
already kind.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Of yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I mean the competitors or the teammates rather she had
in the K two and the K four are still
very very young and her experience is invaluable. It was
the flag bearer at the closing ceremony along with Finn Butcher,
so that is remarkable. I imagine she's got a great
future in the sport, whether it's as a coach or
a mentor whatever it might be. As I mentioned before,
that relationship that she seems to have with the boat
(06:23):
is you know, intrinsic, it seems to be in her soul.
But if she can pass down some of those tips,
so the next generation there might be another someone who
can come close to Lisa Carrington or maybe replicate some
of those efforts on the water and the Olympics to
come so.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Lydia Coe's gold gives her a complete set of medals,
a first for a golfer of any gender at the Olympics,
and qualifies her for the LGPA Hall of Fame. Is
there anything else for her to do or she basically
just clocked a sport at twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
She's long talked about wanting to retire at the age
of thirty. Even back when she was a teenager, she
sort of said she's not in golf for life. This
isn't going to be everything. She's obviously very very good
at it, but has other things that she wants to
do once she hits thirty. And I spoke to her
before the Olympics and she was still quite set on that,
saying it would be her last Olympic Games. I mean,
you can look at her career and go she was
absolute prodigy, very very young, switched to being a pro
(07:11):
one major's, you know, when she was still very young.
Hasn't had a major win in a while in terms
of those events every year, but completed the Olympics the
best Olympic golfer as it stands in history with the
three different medals. Maybe she would like more majors, but
she seems to rise when the Olympics come on. It
just seems to be an event that she can play
a best golf at. And whether it's just different for
(07:33):
the majors where she has had some success, but maybe
not as much as she would like. She seems to
target the Olympics. And while we don't see her down
in New Zealand very long, she's very proud in New Zealand.
It always talks about how proud she is to represent
New Zealand on the LPGA to her, but also when
you're doing it at the Olympics, wearing the silver fern,
you're hearing the national anthem at the end, there's something
clearly very special about that. And look, I know she
(07:54):
said it's her last Olympics. Maybe she might get her
arm twisted. You know, she plays a lot of her
golf in America and has residency there as well.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Whether there is a prospect she might.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Play in LA twenty twenty eight at the stage, no,
but similar Lisa Carrington wouldn't rule it out.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Co kept her calm and finished in style with a
birdie the woman in all black on the final green,
enjoying the adulation.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And obviously we can't shout out absolutely everyone, but who
else caught your eye?
Speaker 6 (08:33):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Look, Alexandres was phenomenal and what a way to finish
the Olympic Games. With a couple of gold medals. I
know her on the track and the Kien and then
in the sprint. She is absolutely remarkable what she can
do and still so very young. She's got a couple
more Olympic cycles left in her and I really love
the way that nothing seems to face Alexandrews. She's got
(08:53):
an eye for the finish line, or eye for the valodrome.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
She just absolutely puts her head.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Down and just peddles her her heart out and at
times it doesn't look like as any other competitors out
in the valodrome. That's the kind of the way that
she races. She's just doing it knowing that if she
hits her marks, and similar to Lisa Carrington, if she
does what she needs to do, she's confident that she
will get the gold medal. Success so'd win in the sprint,
in the Kerran, two big events in the track. Cycling
was absolutely special. So for me, that's the other heart
(09:20):
of the Games, at least Andrews winning those gold medals.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
This Olympics saw the return of surfing, skateboarding and sport
climbing and an attempt to bring in breaking or break dancing.
On those first three which are now core Olympic sports.
Do you think do you think that which.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Audience all three of them still?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
To be honest, I think surfing this time felt a
little bit isolated.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
It was held in Tahiti.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Obviously, you know there's a French connection there, but it
just felt like the tyranny of distance was so great
between that it just didn't feel connected to the Olympics.
So I think that was an issue. I'm still not sure.
It's rarely hit its straps in the Olympics yet. Skateboarding
I think is worthy being there. I think it's a
real sport that can connect with young people. The Olympics
is trying to shed this image of being a little
(10:07):
too fuddy duddy, and I think events like skateboarding, you know,
they really belong. It connects with the youth and the
talent that's on display there is very, very impressive. And
I really like the sport climbing. I think that's a
great event. It's rapid, it's fast, seeing the New Zealanders
involved there, but just seeing how quickly they can go
up the war on the straight speed climbing is five
seconds to race up a wall. Those the kind of
(10:27):
events the Olympics should be looking at to try and innovate.
The are popular events on their own, bring them into
the Olympic fold fields, right.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And do you reckon breaking is one and done?
Speaker 7 (10:36):
Do you think?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I suspect so? Yeah, I'm not sure that entirely work.
Poor old ray gun out of Australia.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
She gave it a go, could you imagine?
Speaker 3 (10:43):
But this is the Olympics. This isn't about giving you
the go, this is about the pinnacle. Yeah, it just
felt a little bit out of it. It felt like a
character from a crysal lily sketch.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
In all honesty, it felt so out of place. It
was so it was awful.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, and look, the memes have been constant in the
last couple of days since she competed, and I feel
sorry for her to an extent, but it was a
little bit silly.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
The whole thing, the breakdancing.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
I don't think it's going to be back and I
don't think it works, So we can just consign that
to the Olympic rubbishman.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I think in her.
Speaker 8 (11:11):
Ossie Green and Gold trackies we saw a kangaroo hop,
the sprinkler headstad and all of it earned her exactly
zero points from the judges.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I think justice for Reagun anyway. I think she went
out there and she gave it a go. She was
the best Australia guy not known for our breakdancing talent.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
No, it's not going to be in Brisbane in twenty
thirty two, so poor old Reagun it I don't think
we'll be competing at a home Olympics.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Kayak cross made its jaboo as well and clinched us
a gold medal for Finn Butcher. Are you excited to
see that continuing?
Speaker 8 (11:45):
Am?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I thought that was one of the highlights of the
Games in all honesty. In terms of the new sports,
it's almost like the TV shirt gladiators. You know, you've
got some tension between the competitors. They're allowed to hit
each other within reason, They're allowed to bash each other
with the boats. They're all scrambling down this core and
not only that, they're going on a whitewater rapid course,
so you're trying to beat your competitors at the line.
It felt like it really worked and there was a
(12:07):
It was great to see a Kiwi win that, but
I thought it was an event that the Olympics kind
of needs sometimes you're very much competing in sort of
time trials or races in lanes. This is you know,
going elbowing each other that you can do pretty much
whatever you like within reason. So I thought that was
a real success for the clat cross. So I'm excited
to see that back in four years time.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
The twenty twenty four Olympics saw sporting highs as well
as heartbreak for some, but no competition garnered more controversy
than the women's boxing. The inclusion of Algeria's Emman Hakliff
and Taiwan's lynn U Teng sparked a firestorm. Their involvement
was further exacerbated after Italy's Angela Karini called off her
(12:56):
match against hercleif after only a few seconds, prompt outrage
online from the lanks of Donald Trump, JK. Rowling, Elon Musk,
and our own Winston Peters. We spoke to University of
Waikato Professor of Sociology in Sport and Gender, Holly Thorpe
about the controversy and about the role of trans women
(13:17):
in sport. The misinformation and cruelty directed towards these two boxes,
these two women has been immense They've been misgendered and
labeled men. Pierce Morgan tweeted a photo of Khalif and said,
if this is a biological female, I'm a biological ardvark.
(13:39):
For example. Is this anything other than just outright discrimination
coming for a muscular athlete with short hair who doesn't
look I suppose like your stereotypical woman.
Speaker 7 (13:50):
Yeah, the abuse was wide ranging, and we definitely had
a number of very high profile figures from Trump to
you know, people with huge followings, making very crude and
humiliating kind of remarks about her gender identity. And I
think a lot of people kind of looked at the
photos and made decisions themselves, thinking, oh, you know, she's
(14:13):
got short hair, a strong jawline, and actually gender's much
more complex than what we look like or we have
short hair, and so I think a lot of people
got kind of caught out by assuming or making assumptions
and yeah, like you're saying, unfortunately, this kind of online
abuse was very widespread and it's harmful. This really hurts athletes,
but it also hurts the next generation of young athletes,
(14:36):
who you know, can see that if you don't perform
a particular version of femininity, you might get this kind
of level of abuse which is very harmful.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
At Tokyo in twenty twenty one, New Zealander Laurel Hubbard
competed in the weightlifting as a trans woman. Have sporting
codes progressed in the last three years in addressing trans
women and those with DSD yes.
Speaker 6 (14:58):
I think I mentioned this before. It's very uneven landscape.
Speaker 7 (15:01):
So whereas the International Limbic Committee set out this framework
really trying to be guided by inclusive understandings of gender,
this is only a framework, so they're kind of using
this to encourage other international organizations to follow in their lead,
but others are not right, and others are doing their
own thing, like World Athletics are still using testosterone testing,
(15:24):
and it's yeah. I think what we're seeing is some countries,
some sports organizations really trying to move towards more inclusive
understandings of gender as it relates to sport, and the
drawing upon the research and lots of consultation to do so.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
And then we've got other organizations that.
Speaker 7 (15:41):
Are still basically using pretty archaic methods of sex testing.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Now I should mention that DSD is an acronym for
differences in sex development. So the NHS says it's a
rare group of conditions involving genes, hormones, and reproductive organs,
including genitals. It means a person's sex development is just
different to most other peoples, I suppose. So when it
comes to DSD, do we just need to accept that
(16:06):
some people have a biological advantage in sport? Say in
the same breath that Lebron James would easily win a
game of one on one against a five foot five man.
Speaker 6 (16:17):
Oh, I think you know you're right.
Speaker 7 (16:19):
I mean, the bodies that we're born into, whether it's
our height, whether it's our hand size, whether it's our
foot size, will give some people biological advantages. And I
wouldn't say that testosterone or the sex body that we're
born into is just one part of many aspects that
make for strong or lesser than performances. But also you
(16:40):
can think about performance, it's also the country that you're
born into, the kinds of funding and support that wraps
around an athlete. Do you have funding for a good
coach and good facilities and enough money to be able
to travel to compete and train elsewhere. So there's so
many things that come into performance, and biology is one
of them. But biology, it's much more than just sex.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Absolutely, And what I find interesting about this debate as well,
this is the Olympics, so this is the world's best
of the best. Algeria is going to send their best
women's boxer to the Olympics, just like Jamaica sent Usain
Bolt to the Olympics. Did the likes of Usain Bolt,
for example, have to undergo any kind of testing other
than perhaps drug testing to prove why he ran the
(17:24):
way that he ran.
Speaker 7 (17:25):
My understanding that male athletes have never had to undergo
gender verification, And you're right. We look at Michael Phelps
for example. You know, huge feet, tall, big hands. I mean,
these are biological advantages in swimming, but we're not accusing
him of any unfair advantage, right, But yeah, you're right.
Speaker 6 (17:44):
These questions are directed at women, powerful, strong woman who
challenge particular versions of gender identity. But often it's not
all women who are targeted by these types of questioning.
It's often non white athletes, black and brown sportswomen in
particular are those who, when they are strong, when they
(18:07):
are powerful, when they are winning, are often questioned about
their gender identities and then have to undergo, you know,
these pretty horrific kinds of practices to prove they are
a woman. So I think there's a whole lot of
not just gendered issues here, but also of race that's
important to address. I think they're going on here in
this case as well.
Speaker 7 (18:27):
But these are ethical issues which are always complex.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
In October, New Zealand's newest A League team, Auckland DEFC,
was prepping for its debut against the Brisbane Raw at
its home ground, Mount Smart Stadium and in front of
a sellout crowd of nearly twenty five thousand spectators. The
Black Knight It's defeated the Raw to nil. Since then,
(19:03):
the team's gone from strength to strength, continuing their unbeaten
run with a two to two draw in their visit
to Melbourne last weekend. Their debut weekend was also one
that drew eyes onto another Kiwi making waves in an
international sports setting. Liam Lawson, the rising F one star,
would make his debut as a full time driver for
(19:24):
Red Bull at the US Grand Prix and is now
waiting for an official decision on if that will continue
next year. The Front Page caught up with News Talk
ZB Sports news director Clay Wilson and senior sports reporter
Elliott Smith to talk about these exciting times for Kiwis
in sport and whether it's the start of our country
(19:45):
caring about something other than international rugby.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
They've got a pretty good roster, but sometimes in the
A league that doesn't mean very much at all. Sometimes
a good roster gets you in mid table, sometimes it
gets you towards the top of the and sometimes it
gets you right down the bottom. I guess that the
proof will be as the season goes on, how they
build and how they come together as a team.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
They've got the right parts.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
They've got a lot of exciting players from both New Zealand,
former internationals and current internationals, and also some from abroad
as well, so I think it's a pretty good mix.
And what it has shown is that there is enough
players to go around when you add in some international players,
some All Whites returning home that across the all Whites
storry a Crosswalkland f C and the Wellington Phoenix, there
(20:30):
are enough to have two professional sides in New Zealand.
Whether they can sustain it commercially and fan wise, I
think is the big question around it, because football is
not the kind of sport in New Zealand that it
is abroad. The Wellington Phoenix have had a good backing
from their city and from others around the country for
(20:50):
some time, but whether it's enough to be commercially sustainable
as a fan driven enterprise, I think the jury is
still out. There's going to be a lot of hype
around this first game this weekend, around the first derby's,
but as the season goes on, will those fans continue
to show up? Will they show up again in round twenty,
Will they show up again in round one twenty twenty
five to twenty six. That's the real question for me
(21:11):
whether it can be sustained.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Well, what does the arrival of Auckland FC actually mean
for the Wellington Phoenix. Are they happy about having a
new local team to compete against?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Not particularly.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I don't see though, because it cuts off their commercial
opportunities to an extent as well, that they can't go
up to Auckland or go to big businesses and go
We're the only football team. If you want to tap
into football in this country, you have to go to
the Wellington Phoenix and have to be sponsored or part
of our sponsorship team, So that cuts off the point
of difference to an extent, and now there's two, so
(21:43):
that is an issue for them that they've got to
try and figure out. They've had Auckland as a semi
base or a second base for a few years now
and they've taken games to Eden Park very successfully, got
some decent crowds there. They can't really do that anymore.
We can't go up to the home base of where
another team is based now look at christ Church and
other markets to try and extend their reach around there.
So I think they'll enjoy the derby games, but whether
(22:07):
they actually enjoy the presence of a second New Zealand
team in the A League, I'm not entirely sure.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I think the jury's out for the Phoenix in that one.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I mean it's going to be ultimately a good thing
for football in New Zealand right to have more pathways
into a professional sporting career. I mean, rugby is our
national sport, but I think football is really popular with
kids at the moment.
Speaker 9 (22:27):
Clay right, well, football quite a long time ago, and
Elliott will correct me if I'm wrong here, but at
a junior level went past rugby in terms of numbers,
not necessarily at a youth or secondary school level, and
that may have changed since, but the likes of football
and basketball were really boomed in the last ten, fifteen,
twenty years. So those players of course now are coming
through to be young adults, teenagers, players that want to
(22:50):
perhaps or are talented enough to move into the professional ranks.
Of course, if there's only one professional team here, you
only have one option. Now they instead of maybe ten
spots on a roster for one team, you have twenty
or twenty five spots that those talented young New Zealand
players have the ability to go into. So yeah, of
course that's a good thing. Whether the Phoenix are so
(23:11):
stoked about that because now there's competition for that young
talent coming through, and you know, of course that young
talent is good for them in a way that you
don't pay a lot for it either, so you know,
you keep a bit of money in the coffers to
go splash abroad. But definitely for those young players coming
through a good thing to have that extra team as
a pathway to the next step to Europe, to the
(23:32):
United States, to these kind of other markets.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Nont Liam Lawson Clay This has been years in the making,
hasn't it. I feel like we've been talking about him
returning to Formula one for donkeys' years, so why is
now the time frame?
Speaker 9 (23:45):
Well, it's been a bit of a I don't know
if saga's the right word, but that's sort of how
it's felt, especially in the last kind of six to
twelve months. Of course, he made that replacement stint last
year when Daniel Ricardo got injured, and he did so
so well in those five races that the expectation was
that he was going to get a full time drive
for this year. That of course never eventuated and he
had to step back into that reserve role. But really
(24:06):
this is something that Liam Lawson has probably been working
towards on the verge of for the last four or
five years really. Of course, you know, starting out in
his younger years back here, but then went to Europe
I think about sixteen or seventeen years old with the
backing of a large number of kind of motorsport enthusiasts
here in New Zealand and then has worked his way
to this point and really in the last kind of
a few months. You know, Formula one is a cutthroat business,
(24:29):
as always Generally what happens is that someone has to
not perform for you to perform. And Liam's spoken about
this already this week, and Daniel Ricardo was brought into
that second seat at Racing Balls, which is the second
team for Red Bull there effectively their junior team, to
see if he could rediscover that form he had early
in his career and get back to that Red Bull
main team that of course never eventuated, and they've decided
(24:51):
to bring Liam in. And I think the timing of
this is really telling as to what Liam's future looks
like next year because they haven't confirmed a deal, but
we're going to see over this next six race is
what he's going to do, and then they're going to
make a decision.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I think off the back of.
Speaker 8 (25:03):
That, you know, it's it's the six rounds left of
the season, so I've come in at a difficult time.
It's going to be a.
Speaker 6 (25:12):
Very challenging point obviously.
Speaker 8 (25:13):
You know, all these guys have done three quarters of
a season now, so I have to try and try
and compete with that now at tracks that I haven't
done as well, So it's going to be challenging. I've
spoken to my parents, I've spoken to everybody that's that's
been behind me on this journey, and it's very very special.
But we don't have much time to really let this
sin can We're going to get straight to work.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Well, there must be so much pressure on him to deliver,
given how long he's waited for this, and the fact
that he's replacing Daniel Ricardo.
Speaker 9 (25:47):
Well, we saw what he could do last year, stepping
in at much shorter notice, and he did very well.
He clearly is someone who can adapt very quickly. He
has the skills, he has the talent. So I think
you know he's coming into it this time having already
gone through that and shown and proven that he's a
driver that I can get into a Formula one car
pretty quickly and get up to speed with the rest
(26:07):
of the field. The difference this time, however, is that
last time there was really not I mean, he won't
agree with this, but the perception was there wasn't that
much pressure on him because he was brought in so
late notice, he was only in there as an injury replacement.
It was like, well, let's see what he does. We're
not really expecting anything of him. But as I've already
alluded to, these last six races this time around are
(26:28):
really a test case for what Liam's going to be
doing next year, and so that there really is pressure
on to perform and perform well if he wants to
ensure that he a gets a full time drive with
Racing Bulls that second team, But there's a lot of
talk about whether he might even be in contention for
the proper Red Bull team and that seat alongside Max
Versteppan because his pressure on Sergio Pirez, who's the second
(26:51):
driver there. So you know, there's a lot of opportunity
here for Liam, and of course with that comes pressure.
But you know he said multiple times and even again
this week that anytime you step into a Formula One
car you know it could be your last because it's
such a cut throat competition industry. The pressure is there regardless,
but definitely this time around different than it was last year.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Both of you have been covering sport for most of
your careers. Are you excited by the fact we're able
to talk about some different sports. It's not just rugby
or sailing anymore. We're actually seeing some excitement and some
movement in different fields.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (27:28):
I think that's the way society has kind of gone right.
It's allowed more sports to flourish at a junior level
and that's now coming through to a senior an elite level.
And you know, Elliott might have a slightly different viewpoint.
You know, he's obviously our voice of rugby and our
rugby commentator and is heavily involved with that. But us
in the sports team, you know, we're in the job
(27:48):
because we love sport, not just one sport. So for
us to be able to come in on any given
day and have one of fifteen twenty twenty five sports
to talk about as great and quite often some of
the best stores, some of the best interviews, some of
the best moments in terms of your job, come in
these in these minor sports when you least expect it,
So you know, the personalities of people are perhaps a
(28:10):
little bit more out there those kinds of things. Yeah,
it's great. It's great to have such variety now.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, it is, and it certainly wasn't the case.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
You know, I think back fifteen twenty years ago, maybe
you got a couple of NBA games a week on ESPN.
Now you can pretty much watch them all over streaming
and then piece heaps on the ESPN, NFL, Major League Baseball,
Formula One. You know, used to be buried in the
middle of the knife. You didn't get up and watch it,
that was your chance. Now you can see highlights and
various things. So what it has done is level the
playing field. And that's the challenge for sports like rugby
(28:39):
that have had this stranglehold on New Zealand culture for
so long is to keep pace with these sports if
they want to still be the sport of choice for New.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Zealand going forward.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
And I think that's it's a really interesting topic, but
it's leveled the playing field in terms of what sports people.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Are interested in.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Also in October, we witnessed the unbelievable on a different
kind of field. India suffered its first series defeat at
home since twenty twelve, at the hands of none other
than New Zealand. The defeat came when India was bowled
out for two hundred and forty five by the Black
Caps in their chase of three hundred and fifty nine
(29:20):
on the third day of the second Test. The Kiwis
went on to hand India a historic zero three series
whitewash at home. We spoke to the ends at Herald's
online Sports editor Alex Powell on what this could mean
for cricket in New Zealand in terms of this series.
(29:43):
I mean, you watched it, what do you think the
black Caps did differently?
Speaker 10 (29:49):
I mean, that's a really difficult question to answer because
the game plan that they had was basically the same
one they had in Sri Lanka where they got swept
turnerl I think the performance of India was re really
what's done in India have just imploded in this series.
They've not lost a home Test series since twenty twelve,
they'd won eighteen consecutive series in the time since then.
They've beaten every nation there apart from Pakistan. And yet
(30:12):
it's New Zealand that's pulled their pants down again.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
So how historic is this defeat for them?
Speaker 10 (30:16):
For India, it's their first Test series lost at home
to New Zealand and then conversely it's New Zealand's first
away series win in India. I mean, you'd probably have
to ask India where it ranks. They don't look at
New Zealand in the greater picture and say these guys
are our big rivals. They think, you know, Australia and
England because that's where cricket is now that those three
countries dominate. Then they also probably love beating Pakistan more
than anyone as well. Whether or not this really rankles
(30:39):
in history is probably to be seen and for India to.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Answer, is it more historic than for New Zealand to
have done this to India?
Speaker 7 (30:46):
No?
Speaker 10 (30:47):
New Zealand are definitely the biggest story head like, we
will look back on this team in ten years and
go wow, I can't believe they did that. They had
no business winning one test in the series, never won
two with one still to play.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
What has some of the international coverage being this?
Speaker 10 (31:00):
So cricket now as a sport effectively just bends over
backwards to praise India. I think the status for every
dollar and international cricket ninety odd cents, so it comes
from India. The sport is completely fixated on making the
most of that audience. So in a lot of ways,
the Black Caps have really upset the Apple car by
doing this.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And it's not only the men's team making good on
that international stage, is it.
Speaker 6 (31:22):
No?
Speaker 10 (31:22):
Yeah, the woman won the T twenty World Cup.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
What last week?
Speaker 11 (31:25):
Now?
Speaker 10 (31:25):
Sorry, time's a bit blurred now for me because there's
been so much other It's been so.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Much cricket to watch, So how historic was that win
for the women's.
Speaker 10 (31:32):
Historic's probably not the right word, because they did win
the full fifty over World Cup in two thousand, but
that was in a whole generation of players ago, so
much so that this generation was saying how they watched
that one and got inspired from it. But I mean,
on the whole, it's just a great time to be
a keeper cricket fan, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Could this bolster cricket's popularity in New Zealand. I feel
like we're constantly talking about rugby and its stars, the
All Blacks. Do you think the same can be said
about cricket and greats?
Speaker 10 (31:55):
I think rugby is such a different thing to compare
any of this too, because rugby isn't a sport in
this cure its entertainment. Whether or not we'll look at
the cricketers in the same light as with the rugby players,
I don't think so. We've already seen this generation of
men's cricketers are the best we'll probably ever have, and
they can all still walk down the street mostly without
being bombarded. But I mean the effect this is going
to have on kids. There's a phrase that you see
(32:16):
in sports, you can't be what you can't see, and
now we've had a generation of girls grow up and
see their team win the t twenty World.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Cup, World champion.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
Susie baits Susie, good morning, Congratulations.
Speaker 10 (32:30):
How are you really?
Speaker 11 (32:33):
Jess so pumped. We've just sung the team song in
the changing room. Yeah, surreal. The tournament has been so
great for this group and to be world champions. You know,
we've had a couple of cracks, but not recently and
just so fas.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
Yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker 10 (32:55):
We've had a generation of boys come through and see
their team just be amazing since what twenty fourteen, they've
won the World Test Championship in that time as well.
So I think the future really is bright. But now
it's up to Newland Cricket to have the right pathways
in place for this talent to come through.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
While many would have guessed the introduction of a new
all blacks coach would have been the biggest shakeup in
ends at rugby this year, the biggest test was actually
happening behind the scenes. New Zealand Rugby has been at
loggerheads with the provincial unions about how to reform governance
for the country's most popular sport. In May, those unions
(33:41):
voted against proposed reforms by the enzet Are Board, before
an eventual deal was struck in September. Since then, the
applications for director roles closed in October, with hopes these
will be the last steps before a long awaited resolution
to a saga that began more than a year ago.
(34:02):
For context on this battle, in April ends It Heralds
sportswriter Gregor Pohl gave us the rundown about what has
led to these games going on in rugby's board rooms. Gregor,
let's go back to August twenty twenty three when the
Pilkington report was delivered. What was the purpose of that
(34:26):
report and what did it find?
Speaker 12 (34:28):
Well, you've got to go back a wee bit further
to get the purpose of the report, which was a
non negotiable demand from the Rugby Players Association when talks
was silver Lake, the private equity investor, broke down entirely
in twenty twenty one, and the players said, look, we're
only going to come back to the table and see
(34:48):
if we can sort this out on the condition the
New Zealand Rugby commission a review into their own governance
structure because the RPA was concerned that it wasn't fit
for purpose. Everyone agreed to this, it was non binding.
It was however, agreed that New Zealand Rugby would operate
in good faith and any of the findings that the
(35:10):
Pilkington Review put forward they would look to act upon
them wherever they could. So in August twenty twenty three,
when the report was finalized, it confirmed what everybody probably
already knew, which was that the governance structure and the
way that the New Zealand Rugby Board of nine Directors
is appointed is no longer fit for purpose. And the
(35:33):
review recommended a best practice way in terms of modernizing
the entire rugby landscape if you like, as it pertains
to governance, and they put forward a blueprint on what
that should look like.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
So what did New Zealand Rugby propose as a way
of addressing these reforms.
Speaker 12 (35:50):
Well, I think they wanted to ignore it for as
long as they possibly could. If I'm going to be
honest with you, they were never really fully supportive of
the idea in my opinion that they wanted to do
the review. They felt it was foisted upon them. So
when the review was published, New Zealand Rugby's response was
kind of vague. It suggested generically that they supported many
(36:14):
of the findings of the review. Because the review had
given a blueprint in terms of how to restructure and
what to do. Most people assumed that New Zealand Rugby
and the provincial unions would agree with that, would look
at that and go, yep, there we go. Does everyone
agree this is the right thing to do. The report's comprehensive,
it's done by credible experts. We all committed to the report.
(36:37):
We all contributed to the report, and we agreed that
these were the right people. This was the right way
to do it. And now we've got exhaustive findings. So
shall we just Robert stampless and get on with it instead.
What has happened is we've had an eight month period
now where the New Zealand Rugby Union and the provinces
separately have tried to reimagine the report and create their
(37:01):
own blueprints for a governance structure, and they've sort of
worked a little bit with the report. They've amended things
here and there. Both parties have had different ideas about
which parts of the report they would like, which part
they don't like. They've not been able to agree. I've
actually lost count of how many different versions they've both
put forward to one another. And here we are now,
(37:22):
instead of what should have been a fairly simple process,
we still have the Rugby Union putting forward its ideas
and what it wants, and we've got the unions with
their own proposal which they have now lodged to hold
a special general meeting and they want to hold a
vote in six weeks time to prove their own version
of the report. I suppose it is the easiest way
to put it.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
So we've got ended Rugby on one hand and then
the provincial unions on the other. What's the view of
the unions?
Speaker 12 (37:50):
So they are I mean, they're not too dissimilar to
the actual Pilkington Review. Their sticking point for them is
that they're concerned that if they adopted the review in
its entirely that they might end up with a nine
person independent board, which they support. They support the idea
of full independence, but they're asking at this stage for
(38:11):
at least three of the directors who are appointed to
have held at least two years experience working on the
board of a provincial rugby union. So they're worried that
you might end up with a board of kind of
career directors, if you like, people who have financial skills
or legal skills or whatever it might be, but not
(38:32):
necessarily embedded experience in grassroots rugby. Now there's accounter argument
that says, well, the whole proposal here takes care of that.
The review actually creates some matrix of skills that that
will need to be included anyway. But the unions are
wanting sort of belt and braces on that, and they
are also proposing that at least one of these directors
(38:55):
identifies as specificus.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
There seems to be a lot of back and forth,
a lot of hullablue over specifics regarding how this will
look like. Does that translate to how big the issue
was to begin with or has this snowballed into something
that people are getting wound up over.
Speaker 12 (39:15):
Yeah. Look, the Pilkington Review said that the current process
is not fit for purpose, and you could argue now
that the fact that it's taken eight months to actually
get not particularly closer to any kind of agreement is
indeed evidence that it's not fit for purpose. We are
going round and round here. There's an element of self protectionism.
Certainly from the New Zealand Rugby Board. There's one or
(39:38):
two who are reluctant to resign their positions as part
of this process, so that's holding things up a little bit.
From the provincial union perspective, they've become hung up that
fee directors must have two years experience. That is a
blockage to an agreement being made on all fronts. But
in the end you could make a fairly strong argument
(40:00):
to say that while the unions are supportive of change
and nine independent directors coming in, they still want to
make sure that there's provincial union control in all the
various councils and bodies that are going to be appointing directors.
And then again with the demand that three directors have
come through Provincial Rugby, it's not actually the volume of
(40:21):
change that we would all imagine you would get if
you just adopted the Pilkington review.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
That's it for this compilation episode of the Front Page.
You can read more about the stories featured in this
episode and extensive news coverage at ensiherld dot co dot
z The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and
Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer, along with
Paddy Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page
(40:50):
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune
in tomorrow for another compilation episode, taking a look back
at some of the year's biggest stories,
Kiyota.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is a compilation episode of
The Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New
Zealand Herald. It's been a huge year for sport here
in New Zealand. In one weekend in October, Team New
Zealand took to the water in Barcelona and took home
(00:28):
the America's Cup for the third time in a row,
while the White Ferns won the ICCT twenty Women's World
Cup Final. There were major wins across the board for
the Black Caps, the Silver Ferns and our latest football team,
Auckland FC. But in this major sporting year, there was
perhaps no bigger cause for celebration than the Paris Olympics.
(00:51):
Krewe athletes bagged more gold medals at Paris than any
other Olympic Games in history, with the likes of Dame
Lisa Harrington and Lydia Coe ensuring their place in the
history books. To rising stars like Hamish Kerr and Finn Butcher,
there were plenty of Kiwi sporting heavyweights in action, with
(01:14):
the games over and the four year journey to Los
Angeles already beginning for some. In August, we recapped the
highs and lows with News Talk z'b's sports reporter and
gold sport commentator Elliott Smith. Elliott, let's start with the highlights.
If you had to pick just one Kiwi medal to celebrate,
(01:35):
which one would it be?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Well, goodness, Chelsea coming in hot early on. Look, I
think for me it'd be the high jump of Hamish Kerr.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I think he.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Overcame some issues in the qualifying and then in the
final just brought her out and was so so good
in that and the drama that came in that with
the jump off and everything like that. You know, New
Zealand's medals in the track and field have been few
and far between. You think of Valerie Adams in recent times.
Tom Walsh to win a gold medal in something like
the high jump I thought was exceptional and just the
(02:04):
celebration racing around Star de France, around the turf and
celebrating in that manner that one stands out to me.
But trying to narrow it down very very difficult. But
I thought that was a pretty special one from a
New Zealand perspective.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
And it's interesting, hey, because they both decided to do
the jump off in the end, and I've seen some
American reports giving the American competitor some slack for being selfish,
whereas in Tokyo didn't they share the medal and then
got the same amount of slack.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
That's right. I don't think you're going to win.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
I think that's always going to be a difficult conversation
because some people will go and like in Tokyo, oh,
you know, it's not really in the what is in
the Olympic spirit, but it isn't to have a shared
gold medal. This time around, they didn't share it, and
there was a distinct gold distinct silver. I think for me,
I thought that was probably the way to go about it.
You've come this far, you're going to get the least
silver anyway, why not try and split it and go
for the gold. I thought it added extra drama, extra tension. Look,
(02:55):
I'm sure what a being special for Hamish Curre if
he shared the gold medal, But in some ways sharing
the gold almost like sharing a silver. It's not quite
as distinct as the two. Whereas with Hamish Kerr, now
he knows he is the best high jumper in the world.
He's won the Olympic gold medal, he's not sharing it
with anyone, and he gets there on his own.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So Dame Lisa Carrington the goat in the boat with
eight golds. Now she's now ranked sixteenth of all time,
ahead of a Usane Bolt, the only New Zealander in
the top one hundred ready.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
To race in the women's kayak for if they can't
see the finish line, it is gold for New Zealand
and the sixth golden moment for Dame Lisa. New Zealand's
supposed to decorate an Olympian. Lisa Carrington strikes gold again.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Are we ever going to see another one like her?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
I don't know that we will, and we should treasure
it for as long as her career lasts. Whether she
decides to go again for LA in four years time
or decides that that's enough, you wouldn't blame her either way.
If he decides that her eight gold medals is enough,
then ghisolutely good on her. But the success that she's
had in not only the individual by but what she's
brought to the K two and the K four has
(04:02):
been immense for New Zealand and I think obviously she's
our greatest Olympian, But just looking at the way that
she brings others up to her skill level. In the
K two and the K four, they wouldn't win without her.
She's like that motor right at the front of the boat.
She's so metronomic in the way that she gets in
the kayak. Obviously she's got incredible strength, but there's something
that she just seems to have a symbiotic relationship with
(04:23):
the boat and the water and the paddle that when
she gets on the water, she is completely unstoppable. She
knows the beats that she has to hit, she knows
where she needs to be to win a race, and
she pulls along the other person in the boat and
the K to the other three in the K four
without wanting to diminish their success as well. But she's
so integral to that. So we need to absolutely treasure
while at last, and to think that she's been at
(04:43):
the top of her game in a number of boats
right from London twenty twelve through to this Olympics in
twenty twenty four, now at thirty five years of age,
through twelve years of success and no one has really
got close to her, especially in the individual events, is remarkable. Look,
I wouldn't all out going to Los Angeles in four
years time. She doesn't look like she is being close
(05:05):
to me in court yet, especially in the individual boats.
So hey, we might see her extend on that success
as in New Zealander and maybe try and catch some
of those others that are at the top of the
all timetable.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
For the world.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Well, after she did her races, it looked like she
could go and do them again.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
She definitely seems to FaZe that she's done the race,
and everyone else looks like they're about to vomit on
the block once they get out, and she's like fresh
as a daisy. It's remarkable that she can do that.
And you know, thirty five, she's still young. A lot
of the competitors around and the clerking seem to go to.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Their to late thirty.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So it's probably a fifty to fifty call as to
whether she competes again, and LA certainly didn't close the
door on that necessarily, so I imagine she'll take some
time now to figure out whether she does want to
go out to LA and where that competitive energy still
burns bright. And already what she's done as Schelsea has
been remarkable. If she was able to build on that
in La it would be quite incredible.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And I can see her hanging around the Olympics as
well and really building up the younger generations like she
already kind.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Of yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I mean the competitors or the teammates rather she had
in the K two and the K four are still
very very young and her experience is invaluable. It was
the flag bearer at the closing ceremony along with Finn Butcher,
so that is remarkable. I imagine she's got a great
future in the sport, whether it's as a coach or
a mentor whatever it might be. As I mentioned before,
that relationship that she seems to have with the boat
(06:23):
is you know, intrinsic, it seems to be in her soul.
But if she can pass down some of those tips,
so the next generation there might be another someone who
can come close to Lisa Carrington or maybe replicate some
of those efforts on the water and the Olympics to
come so.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Lydia Coe's gold gives her a complete set of medals,
a first for a golfer of any gender at the Olympics,
and qualifies her for the LGPA Hall of Fame. Is
there anything else for her to do or she basically
just clocked a sport at twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
She's long talked about wanting to retire at the age
of thirty. Even back when she was a teenager, she
sort of said she's not in golf for life. This
isn't going to be everything. She's obviously very very good
at it, but has other things that she wants to
do once she hits thirty. And I spoke to her
before the Olympics and she was still quite set on that,
saying it would be her last Olympic Games. I mean,
you can look at her career and go she was
absolute prodigy, very very young, switched to being a pro
(07:11):
one major's, you know, when she was still very young.
Hasn't had a major win in a while in terms
of those events every year, but completed the Olympics the
best Olympic golfer as it stands in history with the
three different medals. Maybe she would like more majors, but
she seems to rise when the Olympics come on. It
just seems to be an event that she can play
a best golf at. And whether it's just different for
(07:33):
the majors where she has had some success, but maybe
not as much as she would like. She seems to
target the Olympics. And while we don't see her down
in New Zealand very long, she's very proud in New Zealand.
It always talks about how proud she is to represent
New Zealand on the LPGA to her, but also when
you're doing it at the Olympics, wearing the silver fern,
you're hearing the national anthem at the end, there's something
clearly very special about that. And look, I know she
(07:54):
said it's her last Olympics. Maybe she might get her
arm twisted. You know, she plays a lot of her
golf in America and has residency there as well.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Whether there is a prospect she might.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Play in LA twenty twenty eight at the stage, no,
but similar Lisa Carrington wouldn't rule it out.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Co kept her calm and finished in style with a
birdie the woman in all black on the final green,
enjoying the adulation.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And obviously we can't shout out absolutely everyone, but who
else caught your eye?
Speaker 6 (08:33):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Look, Alexandres was phenomenal and what a way to finish
the Olympic Games. With a couple of gold medals. I
know her on the track and the Kien and then
in the sprint. She is absolutely remarkable what she can
do and still so very young. She's got a couple
more Olympic cycles left in her and I really love
the way that nothing seems to face Alexandrews. She's got
(08:53):
an eye for the finish line, or eye for the valodrome.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
She just absolutely puts her head.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Down and just peddles her her heart out and at
times it doesn't look like as any other competitors out
in the valodrome. That's the kind of the way that
she races. She's just doing it knowing that if she
hits her marks, and similar to Lisa Carrington, if she
does what she needs to do, she's confident that she
will get the gold medal. Success so'd win in the sprint,
in the Kerran, two big events in the track. Cycling
was absolutely special. So for me, that's the other heart
(09:20):
of the Games, at least Andrews winning those gold medals.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
This Olympics saw the return of surfing, skateboarding and sport
climbing and an attempt to bring in breaking or break dancing.
On those first three which are now core Olympic sports.
Do you think do you think that which.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Audience all three of them still?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
To be honest, I think surfing this time felt a
little bit isolated.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
It was held in Tahiti.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Obviously, you know there's a French connection there, but it
just felt like the tyranny of distance was so great
between that it just didn't feel connected to the Olympics.
So I think that was an issue. I'm still not sure.
It's rarely hit its straps in the Olympics yet. Skateboarding
I think is worthy being there. I think it's a
real sport that can connect with young people. The Olympics
is trying to shed this image of being a little
(10:07):
too fuddy duddy, and I think events like skateboarding, you know,
they really belong. It connects with the youth and the
talent that's on display there is very, very impressive. And
I really like the sport climbing. I think that's a
great event. It's rapid, it's fast, seeing the New Zealanders
involved there, but just seeing how quickly they can go
up the war on the straight speed climbing is five
seconds to race up a wall. Those the kind of
(10:27):
events the Olympics should be looking at to try and innovate.
The are popular events on their own, bring them into
the Olympic fold fields, right.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And do you reckon breaking is one and done?
Speaker 7 (10:36):
Do you think?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I suspect so? Yeah, I'm not sure that entirely work.
Poor old ray gun out of Australia.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
She gave it a go, could you imagine?
Speaker 3 (10:43):
But this is the Olympics. This isn't about giving you
the go, this is about the pinnacle. Yeah, it just
felt a little bit out of it. It felt like a
character from a crysal lily sketch.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
In all honesty, it felt so out of place. It
was so it was awful.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, and look, the memes have been constant in the
last couple of days since she competed, and I feel
sorry for her to an extent, but it was a
little bit silly.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
The whole thing, the breakdancing.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
I don't think it's going to be back and I
don't think it works, So we can just consign that
to the Olympic rubbishman.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I think in her.
Speaker 8 (11:11):
Ossie Green and Gold trackies we saw a kangaroo hop,
the sprinkler headstad and all of it earned her exactly
zero points from the judges.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I think justice for Reagun anyway. I think she went
out there and she gave it a go. She was
the best Australia guy not known for our breakdancing talent.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
No, it's not going to be in Brisbane in twenty
thirty two, so poor old Reagun it I don't think
we'll be competing at a home Olympics.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Kayak cross made its jaboo as well and clinched us
a gold medal for Finn Butcher. Are you excited to
see that continuing?
Speaker 8 (11:45):
Am?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I thought that was one of the highlights of the
Games in all honesty. In terms of the new sports,
it's almost like the TV shirt gladiators. You know, you've
got some tension between the competitors. They're allowed to hit
each other within reason, They're allowed to bash each other
with the boats. They're all scrambling down this core and
not only that, they're going on a whitewater rapid course,
so you're trying to beat your competitors at the line.
It felt like it really worked and there was a
(12:07):
It was great to see a Kiwi win that, but
I thought it was an event that the Olympics kind
of needs sometimes you're very much competing in sort of
time trials or races in lanes. This is you know,
going elbowing each other that you can do pretty much
whatever you like within reason. So I thought that was
a real success for the clat cross. So I'm excited
to see that back in four years time.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
The twenty twenty four Olympics saw sporting highs as well
as heartbreak for some, but no competition garnered more controversy
than the women's boxing. The inclusion of Algeria's Emman Hakliff
and Taiwan's lynn U Teng sparked a firestorm. Their involvement
was further exacerbated after Italy's Angela Karini called off her
(12:56):
match against hercleif after only a few seconds, prompt outrage
online from the lanks of Donald Trump, JK. Rowling, Elon Musk,
and our own Winston Peters. We spoke to University of
Waikato Professor of Sociology in Sport and Gender, Holly Thorpe
about the controversy and about the role of trans women
(13:17):
in sport. The misinformation and cruelty directed towards these two boxes,
these two women has been immense They've been misgendered and
labeled men. Pierce Morgan tweeted a photo of Khalif and said,
if this is a biological female, I'm a biological ardvark.
(13:39):
For example. Is this anything other than just outright discrimination
coming for a muscular athlete with short hair who doesn't
look I suppose like your stereotypical woman.
Speaker 7 (13:50):
Yeah, the abuse was wide ranging, and we definitely had
a number of very high profile figures from Trump to
you know, people with huge followings, making very crude and
humiliating kind of remarks about her gender identity. And I
think a lot of people kind of looked at the
photos and made decisions themselves, thinking, oh, you know, she's
(14:13):
got short hair, a strong jawline, and actually gender's much
more complex than what we look like or we have
short hair, and so I think a lot of people
got kind of caught out by assuming or making assumptions
and yeah, like you're saying, unfortunately, this kind of online
abuse was very widespread and it's harmful. This really hurts athletes,
but it also hurts the next generation of young athletes,
(14:36):
who you know, can see that if you don't perform
a particular version of femininity, you might get this kind
of level of abuse which is very harmful.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
At Tokyo in twenty twenty one, New Zealander Laurel Hubbard
competed in the weightlifting as a trans woman. Have sporting
codes progressed in the last three years in addressing trans
women and those with DSD yes.
Speaker 6 (14:58):
I think I mentioned this before. It's very uneven landscape.
Speaker 7 (15:01):
So whereas the International Limbic Committee set out this framework
really trying to be guided by inclusive understandings of gender,
this is only a framework, so they're kind of using
this to encourage other international organizations to follow in their lead,
but others are not right, and others are doing their
own thing, like World Athletics are still using testosterone testing,
(15:24):
and it's yeah. I think what we're seeing is some countries,
some sports organizations really trying to move towards more inclusive
understandings of gender as it relates to sport, and the
drawing upon the research and lots of consultation to do so.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
And then we've got other organizations that.
Speaker 7 (15:41):
Are still basically using pretty archaic methods of sex testing.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Now I should mention that DSD is an acronym for
differences in sex development. So the NHS says it's a
rare group of conditions involving genes, hormones, and reproductive organs,
including genitals. It means a person's sex development is just
different to most other peoples, I suppose. So when it
comes to DSD, do we just need to accept that
(16:06):
some people have a biological advantage in sport? Say in
the same breath that Lebron James would easily win a
game of one on one against a five foot five man.
Speaker 6 (16:17):
Oh, I think you know you're right.
Speaker 7 (16:19):
I mean, the bodies that we're born into, whether it's
our height, whether it's our hand size, whether it's our
foot size, will give some people biological advantages. And I
wouldn't say that testosterone or the sex body that we're
born into is just one part of many aspects that
make for strong or lesser than performances. But also you
(16:40):
can think about performance, it's also the country that you're
born into, the kinds of funding and support that wraps
around an athlete. Do you have funding for a good
coach and good facilities and enough money to be able
to travel to compete and train elsewhere. So there's so
many things that come into performance, and biology is one
of them. But biology, it's much more than just sex.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Absolutely, And what I find interesting about this debate as well,
this is the Olympics, so this is the world's best
of the best. Algeria is going to send their best
women's boxer to the Olympics, just like Jamaica sent Usain
Bolt to the Olympics. Did the likes of Usain Bolt,
for example, have to undergo any kind of testing other
than perhaps drug testing to prove why he ran the
(17:24):
way that he ran.
Speaker 7 (17:25):
My understanding that male athletes have never had to undergo
gender verification, And you're right. We look at Michael Phelps
for example. You know, huge feet, tall, big hands. I mean,
these are biological advantages in swimming, but we're not accusing
him of any unfair advantage, right, But yeah, you're right.
Speaker 6 (17:44):
These questions are directed at women, powerful, strong woman who
challenge particular versions of gender identity. But often it's not
all women who are targeted by these types of questioning.
It's often non white athletes, black and brown sportswomen in
particular are those who, when they are strong, when they
(18:07):
are powerful, when they are winning, are often questioned about
their gender identities and then have to undergo, you know,
these pretty horrific kinds of practices to prove they are
a woman. So I think there's a whole lot of
not just gendered issues here, but also of race that's
important to address. I think they're going on here in
this case as well.
Speaker 7 (18:27):
But these are ethical issues which are always complex.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
In October, New Zealand's newest A League team, Auckland DEFC,
was prepping for its debut against the Brisbane Raw at
its home ground, Mount Smart Stadium and in front of
a sellout crowd of nearly twenty five thousand spectators. The
Black Knight It's defeated the Raw to nil. Since then,
(19:03):
the team's gone from strength to strength, continuing their unbeaten
run with a two to two draw in their visit
to Melbourne last weekend. Their debut weekend was also one
that drew eyes onto another Kiwi making waves in an
international sports setting. Liam Lawson, the rising F one star,
would make his debut as a full time driver for
(19:24):
Red Bull at the US Grand Prix and is now
waiting for an official decision on if that will continue
next year. The Front Page caught up with News Talk
ZB Sports news director Clay Wilson and senior sports reporter
Elliott Smith to talk about these exciting times for Kiwis
in sport and whether it's the start of our country
(19:45):
caring about something other than international rugby.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
They've got a pretty good roster, but sometimes in the
A league that doesn't mean very much at all. Sometimes
a good roster gets you in mid table, sometimes it
gets you towards the top of the and sometimes it
gets you right down the bottom. I guess that the
proof will be as the season goes on, how they
build and how they come together as a team.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
They've got the right parts.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
They've got a lot of exciting players from both New Zealand,
former internationals and current internationals, and also some from abroad
as well, so I think it's a pretty good mix.
And what it has shown is that there is enough
players to go around when you add in some international players,
some All Whites returning home that across the all Whites
storry a Crosswalkland f C and the Wellington Phoenix, there
(20:30):
are enough to have two professional sides in New Zealand.
Whether they can sustain it commercially and fan wise, I
think is the big question around it, because football is
not the kind of sport in New Zealand that it
is abroad. The Wellington Phoenix have had a good backing
from their city and from others around the country for
(20:50):
some time, but whether it's enough to be commercially sustainable
as a fan driven enterprise, I think the jury is
still out. There's going to be a lot of hype
around this first game this weekend, around the first derby's,
but as the season goes on, will those fans continue
to show up? Will they show up again in round twenty,
Will they show up again in round one twenty twenty
five to twenty six. That's the real question for me
(21:11):
whether it can be sustained.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Well, what does the arrival of Auckland FC actually mean
for the Wellington Phoenix. Are they happy about having a
new local team to compete against?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Not particularly.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I don't see though, because it cuts off their commercial
opportunities to an extent as well, that they can't go
up to Auckland or go to big businesses and go
We're the only football team. If you want to tap
into football in this country, you have to go to
the Wellington Phoenix and have to be sponsored or part
of our sponsorship team, So that cuts off the point
of difference to an extent, and now there's two, so
(21:43):
that is an issue for them that they've got to
try and figure out. They've had Auckland as a semi
base or a second base for a few years now
and they've taken games to Eden Park very successfully, got
some decent crowds there. They can't really do that anymore.
We can't go up to the home base of where
another team is based now look at christ Church and
other markets to try and extend their reach around there.
So I think they'll enjoy the derby games, but whether
(22:07):
they actually enjoy the presence of a second New Zealand
team in the A League, I'm not entirely sure.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I think the jury's out for the Phoenix in that one.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I mean it's going to be ultimately a good thing
for football in New Zealand right to have more pathways
into a professional sporting career. I mean, rugby is our
national sport, but I think football is really popular with
kids at the moment.
Speaker 9 (22:27):
Clay right, well, football quite a long time ago, and
Elliott will correct me if I'm wrong here, but at
a junior level went past rugby in terms of numbers,
not necessarily at a youth or secondary school level, and
that may have changed since, but the likes of football
and basketball were really boomed in the last ten, fifteen,
twenty years. So those players of course now are coming
through to be young adults, teenagers, players that want to
(22:50):
perhaps or are talented enough to move into the professional ranks.
Of course, if there's only one professional team here, you
only have one option. Now they instead of maybe ten
spots on a roster for one team, you have twenty
or twenty five spots that those talented young New Zealand
players have the ability to go into. So yeah, of
course that's a good thing. Whether the Phoenix are so
(23:11):
stoked about that because now there's competition for that young
talent coming through, and you know, of course that young
talent is good for them in a way that you
don't pay a lot for it either, so you know,
you keep a bit of money in the coffers to
go splash abroad. But definitely for those young players coming
through a good thing to have that extra team as
a pathway to the next step to Europe, to the
(23:32):
United States, to these kind of other markets.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Nont Liam Lawson Clay This has been years in the making,
hasn't it. I feel like we've been talking about him
returning to Formula one for donkeys' years, so why is
now the time frame?
Speaker 9 (23:45):
Well, it's been a bit of a I don't know
if saga's the right word, but that's sort of how
it's felt, especially in the last kind of six to
twelve months. Of course, he made that replacement stint last
year when Daniel Ricardo got injured, and he did so
so well in those five races that the expectation was
that he was going to get a full time drive
for this year. That of course never eventuated and he
had to step back into that reserve role. But really
(24:06):
this is something that Liam Lawson has probably been working
towards on the verge of for the last four or
five years really. Of course, you know, starting out in
his younger years back here, but then went to Europe
I think about sixteen or seventeen years old with the
backing of a large number of kind of motorsport enthusiasts
here in New Zealand and then has worked his way
to this point and really in the last kind of
a few months. You know, Formula one is a cutthroat business,
(24:29):
as always Generally what happens is that someone has to
not perform for you to perform. And Liam's spoken about
this already this week, and Daniel Ricardo was brought into
that second seat at Racing Balls, which is the second
team for Red Bull there effectively their junior team, to
see if he could rediscover that form he had early
in his career and get back to that Red Bull
main team that of course never eventuated, and they've decided
(24:51):
to bring Liam in. And I think the timing of
this is really telling as to what Liam's future looks
like next year because they haven't confirmed a deal, but
we're going to see over this next six race is
what he's going to do, and then they're going to
make a decision.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I think off the back of.
Speaker 8 (25:03):
That, you know, it's it's the six rounds left of
the season, so I've come in at a difficult time.
It's going to be a.
Speaker 6 (25:12):
Very challenging point obviously.
Speaker 8 (25:13):
You know, all these guys have done three quarters of
a season now, so I have to try and try
and compete with that now at tracks that I haven't
done as well, So it's going to be challenging. I've
spoken to my parents, I've spoken to everybody that's that's
been behind me on this journey, and it's very very special.
But we don't have much time to really let this
sin can We're going to get straight to work.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Well, there must be so much pressure on him to deliver,
given how long he's waited for this, and the fact
that he's replacing Daniel Ricardo.
Speaker 9 (25:47):
Well, we saw what he could do last year, stepping
in at much shorter notice, and he did very well.
He clearly is someone who can adapt very quickly. He
has the skills, he has the talent. So I think
you know he's coming into it this time having already
gone through that and shown and proven that he's a
driver that I can get into a Formula one car
pretty quickly and get up to speed with the rest
(26:07):
of the field. The difference this time, however, is that
last time there was really not I mean, he won't
agree with this, but the perception was there wasn't that
much pressure on him because he was brought in so
late notice, he was only in there as an injury replacement.
It was like, well, let's see what he does. We're
not really expecting anything of him. But as I've already
alluded to, these last six races this time around are
(26:28):
really a test case for what Liam's going to be
doing next year, and so that there really is pressure
on to perform and perform well if he wants to
ensure that he a gets a full time drive with
Racing Bulls that second team, But there's a lot of
talk about whether he might even be in contention for
the proper Red Bull team and that seat alongside Max
Versteppan because his pressure on Sergio Pirez, who's the second
(26:51):
driver there. So you know, there's a lot of opportunity
here for Liam, and of course with that comes pressure.
But you know he said multiple times and even again
this week that anytime you step into a Formula One
car you know it could be your last because it's
such a cut throat competition industry. The pressure is there regardless,
but definitely this time around different than it was last year.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Both of you have been covering sport for most of
your careers. Are you excited by the fact we're able
to talk about some different sports. It's not just rugby
or sailing anymore. We're actually seeing some excitement and some
movement in different fields.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (27:28):
I think that's the way society has kind of gone right.
It's allowed more sports to flourish at a junior level
and that's now coming through to a senior an elite level.
And you know, Elliott might have a slightly different viewpoint.
You know, he's obviously our voice of rugby and our
rugby commentator and is heavily involved with that. But us
in the sports team, you know, we're in the job
(27:48):
because we love sport, not just one sport. So for
us to be able to come in on any given
day and have one of fifteen twenty twenty five sports
to talk about as great and quite often some of
the best stores, some of the best interviews, some of
the best moments in terms of your job, come in
these in these minor sports when you least expect it,
So you know, the personalities of people are perhaps a
(28:10):
little bit more out there those kinds of things. Yeah,
it's great. It's great to have such variety now.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, it is, and it certainly wasn't the case.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
You know, I think back fifteen twenty years ago, maybe
you got a couple of NBA games a week on ESPN.
Now you can pretty much watch them all over streaming
and then piece heaps on the ESPN, NFL, Major League Baseball,
Formula One. You know, used to be buried in the
middle of the knife. You didn't get up and watch it,
that was your chance. Now you can see highlights and
various things. So what it has done is level the
playing field. And that's the challenge for sports like rugby
(28:39):
that have had this stranglehold on New Zealand culture for
so long is to keep pace with these sports if
they want to still be the sport of choice for New.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Zealand going forward.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
And I think that's it's a really interesting topic, but
it's leveled the playing field in terms of what sports people.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Are interested in.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Also in October, we witnessed the unbelievable on a different
kind of field. India suffered its first series defeat at
home since twenty twelve, at the hands of none other
than New Zealand. The defeat came when India was bowled
out for two hundred and forty five by the Black
Caps in their chase of three hundred and fifty nine
(29:20):
on the third day of the second Test. The Kiwis
went on to hand India a historic zero three series
whitewash at home. We spoke to the ends at Herald's
online Sports editor Alex Powell on what this could mean
for cricket in New Zealand in terms of this series.
(29:43):
I mean, you watched it, what do you think the
black Caps did differently?
Speaker 10 (29:49):
I mean, that's a really difficult question to answer because
the game plan that they had was basically the same
one they had in Sri Lanka where they got swept
turnerl I think the performance of India was re really
what's done in India have just imploded in this series.
They've not lost a home Test series since twenty twelve,
they'd won eighteen consecutive series in the time since then.
They've beaten every nation there apart from Pakistan. And yet
(30:12):
it's New Zealand that's pulled their pants down again.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
So how historic is this defeat for them?
Speaker 10 (30:16):
For India, it's their first Test series lost at home
to New Zealand and then conversely it's New Zealand's first
away series win in India. I mean, you'd probably have
to ask India where it ranks. They don't look at
New Zealand in the greater picture and say these guys
are our big rivals. They think, you know, Australia and
England because that's where cricket is now that those three
countries dominate. Then they also probably love beating Pakistan more
than anyone as well. Whether or not this really rankles
(30:39):
in history is probably to be seen and for India to.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Answer, is it more historic than for New Zealand to
have done this to India?
Speaker 7 (30:46):
No?
Speaker 10 (30:47):
New Zealand are definitely the biggest story head like, we
will look back on this team in ten years and
go wow, I can't believe they did that. They had
no business winning one test in the series, never won
two with one still to play.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
What has some of the international coverage being this?
Speaker 10 (31:00):
So cricket now as a sport effectively just bends over
backwards to praise India. I think the status for every
dollar and international cricket ninety odd cents, so it comes
from India. The sport is completely fixated on making the
most of that audience. So in a lot of ways,
the Black Caps have really upset the Apple car by
doing this.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And it's not only the men's team making good on
that international stage, is it.
Speaker 6 (31:22):
No?
Speaker 10 (31:22):
Yeah, the woman won the T twenty World Cup.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
What last week?
Speaker 11 (31:25):
Now?
Speaker 10 (31:25):
Sorry, time's a bit blurred now for me because there's
been so much other It's been so.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Much cricket to watch, So how historic was that win
for the women's.
Speaker 10 (31:32):
Historic's probably not the right word, because they did win
the full fifty over World Cup in two thousand, but
that was in a whole generation of players ago, so
much so that this generation was saying how they watched
that one and got inspired from it. But I mean,
on the whole, it's just a great time to be
a keeper cricket fan, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Could this bolster cricket's popularity in New Zealand. I feel
like we're constantly talking about rugby and its stars, the
All Blacks. Do you think the same can be said
about cricket and greats?
Speaker 10 (31:55):
I think rugby is such a different thing to compare
any of this too, because rugby isn't a sport in
this cure its entertainment. Whether or not we'll look at
the cricketers in the same light as with the rugby players,
I don't think so. We've already seen this generation of
men's cricketers are the best we'll probably ever have, and
they can all still walk down the street mostly without
being bombarded. But I mean the effect this is going
to have on kids. There's a phrase that you see
(32:16):
in sports, you can't be what you can't see, and
now we've had a generation of girls grow up and
see their team win the t twenty World.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Cup, World champion.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
Susie baits Susie, good morning, Congratulations.
Speaker 10 (32:30):
How are you really?
Speaker 11 (32:33):
Jess so pumped. We've just sung the team song in
the changing room. Yeah, surreal. The tournament has been so
great for this group and to be world champions. You know,
we've had a couple of cracks, but not recently and
just so fas.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
Yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker 10 (32:55):
We've had a generation of boys come through and see
their team just be amazing since what twenty fourteen, they've
won the World Test Championship in that time as well.
So I think the future really is bright. But now
it's up to Newland Cricket to have the right pathways
in place for this talent to come through.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
While many would have guessed the introduction of a new
all blacks coach would have been the biggest shakeup in
ends at rugby this year, the biggest test was actually
happening behind the scenes. New Zealand Rugby has been at
loggerheads with the provincial unions about how to reform governance
for the country's most popular sport. In May, those unions
(33:41):
voted against proposed reforms by the enzet Are Board, before
an eventual deal was struck in September. Since then, the
applications for director roles closed in October, with hopes these
will be the last steps before a long awaited resolution
to a saga that began more than a year ago.
(34:02):
For context on this battle, in April ends It Heralds
sportswriter Gregor Pohl gave us the rundown about what has
led to these games going on in rugby's board rooms. Gregor,
let's go back to August twenty twenty three when the
Pilkington report was delivered. What was the purpose of that
(34:26):
report and what did it find?
Speaker 12 (34:28):
Well, you've got to go back a wee bit further
to get the purpose of the report, which was a
non negotiable demand from the Rugby Players Association when talks
was silver Lake, the private equity investor, broke down entirely
in twenty twenty one, and the players said, look, we're
only going to come back to the table and see
(34:48):
if we can sort this out on the condition the
New Zealand Rugby commission a review into their own governance
structure because the RPA was concerned that it wasn't fit
for purpose. Everyone agreed to this, it was non binding.
It was however, agreed that New Zealand Rugby would operate
in good faith and any of the findings that the
(35:10):
Pilkington Review put forward they would look to act upon
them wherever they could. So in August twenty twenty three,
when the report was finalized, it confirmed what everybody probably
already knew, which was that the governance structure and the
way that the New Zealand Rugby Board of nine Directors
is appointed is no longer fit for purpose. And the
(35:33):
review recommended a best practice way in terms of modernizing
the entire rugby landscape if you like, as it pertains
to governance, and they put forward a blueprint on what
that should look like.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
So what did New Zealand Rugby propose as a way
of addressing these reforms.
Speaker 12 (35:50):
Well, I think they wanted to ignore it for as
long as they possibly could. If I'm going to be
honest with you, they were never really fully supportive of
the idea in my opinion that they wanted to do
the review. They felt it was foisted upon them. So
when the review was published, New Zealand Rugby's response was
kind of vague. It suggested generically that they supported many
(36:14):
of the findings of the review. Because the review had
given a blueprint in terms of how to restructure and
what to do. Most people assumed that New Zealand Rugby
and the provincial unions would agree with that, would look
at that and go, yep, there we go. Does everyone
agree this is the right thing to do. The report's comprehensive,
it's done by credible experts. We all committed to the report.
(36:37):
We all contributed to the report, and we agreed that
these were the right people. This was the right way
to do it. And now we've got exhaustive findings. So
shall we just Robert stampless and get on with it instead.
What has happened is we've had an eight month period
now where the New Zealand Rugby Union and the provinces
separately have tried to reimagine the report and create their
(37:01):
own blueprints for a governance structure, and they've sort of
worked a little bit with the report. They've amended things
here and there. Both parties have had different ideas about
which parts of the report they would like, which part
they don't like. They've not been able to agree. I've
actually lost count of how many different versions they've both
put forward to one another. And here we are now,
(37:22):
instead of what should have been a fairly simple process,
we still have the Rugby Union putting forward its ideas
and what it wants, and we've got the unions with
their own proposal which they have now lodged to hold
a special general meeting and they want to hold a
vote in six weeks time to prove their own version
of the report. I suppose it is the easiest way
to put it.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
So we've got ended Rugby on one hand and then
the provincial unions on the other. What's the view of
the unions?
Speaker 12 (37:50):
So they are I mean, they're not too dissimilar to
the actual Pilkington Review. Their sticking point for them is
that they're concerned that if they adopted the review in
its entirely that they might end up with a nine
person independent board, which they support. They support the idea
of full independence, but they're asking at this stage for
(38:11):
at least three of the directors who are appointed to
have held at least two years experience working on the
board of a provincial rugby union. So they're worried that
you might end up with a board of kind of
career directors, if you like, people who have financial skills
or legal skills or whatever it might be, but not
(38:32):
necessarily embedded experience in grassroots rugby. Now there's accounter argument
that says, well, the whole proposal here takes care of that.
The review actually creates some matrix of skills that that
will need to be included anyway. But the unions are
wanting sort of belt and braces on that, and they
are also proposing that at least one of these directors
(38:55):
identifies as specificus.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
There seems to be a lot of back and forth,
a lot of hullablue over specifics regarding how this will
look like. Does that translate to how big the issue
was to begin with or has this snowballed into something
that people are getting wound up over.
Speaker 12 (39:15):
Yeah. Look, the Pilkington Review said that the current process
is not fit for purpose, and you could argue now
that the fact that it's taken eight months to actually
get not particularly closer to any kind of agreement is
indeed evidence that it's not fit for purpose. We are
going round and round here. There's an element of self protectionism.
Certainly from the New Zealand Rugby Board. There's one or
(39:38):
two who are reluctant to resign their positions as part
of this process, so that's holding things up a little bit.
From the provincial union perspective, they've become hung up that
fee directors must have two years experience. That is a
blockage to an agreement being made on all fronts. But
in the end you could make a fairly strong argument
(40:00):
to say that while the unions are supportive of change
and nine independent directors coming in, they still want to
make sure that there's provincial union control in all the
various councils and bodies that are going to be appointing directors.
And then again with the demand that three directors have
come through Provincial Rugby, it's not actually the volume of
(40:21):
change that we would all imagine you would get if
you just adopted the Pilkington review.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
That's it for this compilation episode of the Front Page.
You can read more about the stories featured in this
episode and extensive news coverage at ensiherld dot co dot
z The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and
Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer, along with
Paddy Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page
(40:50):
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune
in tomorrow for another compilation episode, taking a look back
at some of the year's biggest stories,
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