September 26, 2024 • 19 mins
Public servants – or what’s left of them – have been ordered back to the office in Wellington.
The Government’s call has been welcomed by central city businesses, who said that the absence of workers has impacted on their business.
The decline of the city centre is one of a number of issues the capital is facing, including soaring costs from rates and struggling council finances.
Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has not helped things, after a week of conflicting statements on selling her car that has caused a distraction.
To discuss the state of Wellington and its council, today on The Front Page, we are joined by Newstalk ZB Wellington host, Nick Mills, and Wellington editor for The Spinoff, Joel MacManus.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Susie Nordqvist
Sound Engineer: Dan Goodwin
Producer: Ethan Sills
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Cura. I'm Susie Nordquist and for Chelsea Daniels and this
is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by The
New Zealand Herald. Public Servants or what's left of them,
have been ordered back to the office in Wellington. The
government's call has been welcomed by central city businesses, who
say the absence of workers has impacted on their trade.
(00:30):
The decline of the city center is one of a
number of issues the capital is facing, including soaring costs
from rates and struggling council finances. Wellington mea Tori Farno
has not helped things after a week of conflicting statements
on selling her car that has caused a distraction. To
discuss the state of Wellington and its council today on
(00:50):
the front Page, we are joined by Newstalk ZB Wellington
host Nick Mills and Wellington editor for the spin off,
Joel McManus. Let's start with you, Nick. You own several
hospitality businesses in Wellington. Have you noticed a decline in
foot traffic and sales? And over what period?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Oh my gosh, I didn't think it was a comedy show.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Prea COVID we had nine hospitality Outfits as a family business.
Currently we're one, two, three, four and hoping to open
another one soon. So yeah, no, it's been It's not
even the same world that we live in.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Nick. What's it like being in business in Wellington at
the moment? For those who might be listening right now, it's.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Been a really horrific time. And I'm not blaming Torri
Faro for all of it, of course I'm not. I mean,
I'm blaming the world. We got COVID, that was the
first thing that stuffed it, and then we've got police
that are over zealous and trying to limit late licenses
and they're trying to do everything they can to stop
everyone from having a good time. You've got the health
boards that are actually objecting to licenses and getting into
(01:59):
businesses that they know nothing about and ruining people's lives.
So we've got a lot going on in Wellington and
in New Zealand, and we've got to fight through it
or lie down and get Bulldeauz a day.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
What about you, Joel, I've read commentary describing Wellington as
a ghost town on Mondays and Fridays? Is that how
you see things?
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I mean, Neck's absolutely right, Like Wellington's face just a
kind of horrendous series of events. One that's not talked
about enough is the twenty sixteen earthquake, which is just
kind of in the slow rolling disaster.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
More and more buildings shutting down, you know.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Obviously, COVID recession, public sector layoffs, there's just less economic
activity happening in the capitol. I think some of the
commentary is a bit overblown, to be honest, and I
think some of it comes from people who have a
certain incentive to talk Wellington down. I was out on
Saturday when the sun was out, and there's all these
beautiful new parklets along Dixon Street and.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
It was heaving with people.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
So I think a lot of people are kind of
just holding on for summer hope, hoping that things will
turn around.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
People want to get out there and do some more.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
But yeah, I mean there's no denying obviously that the
city's in a tough spot like many cities.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Joel, can you do be a favor Next time you
see anybody in a parklet, can you take a photo
of it and send it to me? Because you know
I'm in the trade and I'm in the business, and yes,
it might might have a few people in a parklant
on a beautiful day when there's no wind. But they
write songs about Wellington on those days they don't happen
that often, so I think the parklets are a complete
waste of time. And I used to own a bar
(03:26):
called The Tasting Room which had the biggest parklet in
Wellington on it, and I always used to look at
it frustratingly, saying it's peeing down with rain and customers
a driving pass and they can't park in the car
parks because I've got tables and chairs out there with
no one's sitting in them.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
I think you're being a bit delusional, Nick.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
You've just got a whole bunch of extra tables and
seats that I see a lot of people in all
the time. That surely is a lot cheaper than that
bit you paying rent for that facility, and what the.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Trade off is?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Do you know how much two car parks?
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Do you know any thirty extra seats? What are you
talking about, Joel?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Do you know how much those places pay for those
park lips?
Speaker 5 (04:01):
Do you know that?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
I do?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I can find the number like you give us the number,
and can I said to you, I asked you nicely,
could you take a photo when you see people in there?
Because I don't see people in them, and I am
a professional who works in the trade and is on
the streets every Friday and Saturdays and sometimes Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I mean, I don't really know how to have this
debate when sort of just kind of it's very clear
that people use the parklets like I have eyes. Sure
I can take some photos. I just think this is
a dumb thing to argue about, because this is just reality.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Okay, you've clearly got two very different views there, Joe,
who would have an incentive to talk Wellington down?
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Look, I mean, I think there's people obviously who don't
like some of the current council. You know, there's people
who don't like what the city represents politically and the
kind of people who work in this city. You know,
you actually see the same narrative in the US. You know,
the likes of Fox News like to talk down cities
that are known for being lefty, progressive cities San Francisco, Chicago,
that sort of thing.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
I'm just a bit bored of it.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
So people with different political views sometimes.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
What was introduced as a temporary measure during COVID four
years ago, is risks putting pressure on team performance, office culture,
and talent development.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
And while some swear by the benefits of working from
their kitchen table, others admit that routinely leaving the house
for work increases their motivation, focus, and productivity. There are
good reasons why office workers have traditionally been physically brought
together for work.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Moving on, what do you both make of the call
to order public servants back into the office. The government's
looking at this from a productivity point of view, But
is it the right move for the local economy.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
I mean, I think in the short term it's going
to be a boost, so I think it's kind of undeniable.
Having more people in the city and the office is
going to mean sales and cafes and after work drinks.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
But I kind of don't think a required.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Captured, captured market is a particularly good way to build
the economic base of a city. I think the answer
is going to have to be make the city a
better place to be, make it pleasant for customers to
go out, walk the streets, visit bars, make it more walkable,
and you know, just do the things that make businesses
and people want to be there. I just don't think
like requiring this stuff is the answer in the long term.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
How do you make it more attractive then.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Things like parklets obviously, pedestrianization, widening the footpaths one thing
I'd really like to see some investments. There's a lot
more lighting on awnings. You know, along Courtney Place in
Cuba Street, there's these random dark patches and there's little
things like that in terms of urban design that make
a big difference just in terms of it feeling safer
and more pleasant for people to go out and and
(06:55):
you know, like you might not think that's a big deal,
but you know, it just just plays on people's minds
a lot.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
And it's spend.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
It comes down to how long they want to spend out,
how much money they want to spend, how much they
want to go out and enjoy the city. Now.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
See, I love the idea Suzie of the awnings in
front of bars and restaurants. And we've got a little
tiny Mexican restaurant that we've asked the council three or
four times if we can put a nice little warning.
We've got a tiny little outside area we wanted to
put an awning over. Yeah, the answer is yes, but
you know what it's going to cost us. We've got
to apply for a license for the awning. Then we
have to pay a rental of nearly four thousand dollars
(07:28):
a year to have a little awning.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
That looks after two tables.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
So if you want to have a beautiful city, and
I agree with a lot of what Joel's saying about
making the city better, he's got no argument from me
on that. But the end of the day, those parklands.
If I wanted to put a park in front of
my little Mexican restaurant, that'll cost me about seven or
eight grand a year. Put the warning on. That's another
four ground. This is all money going to the council.
I think I'd rather pay my landlords some money to
(07:53):
have it inside and be able to use it all
the time.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So are you an affect saying that too much red
tape is sort of threatening the vine ability of businesses
in Wellington right now?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Absolutely, And but that's not a new problem. Let's not
say that this, let's not point that to to the
current council. That's been forever, but it does. It's always
been a city that's been difficult to get anything to
move or change. I mean, as soon as the part
the Seventh Party became too big, you know, the police
and the council said, oh we better stop doing that.
As soon as the motor car racing which was huge
(08:24):
in Wellington and New Zealand, as soon as that got
too big, oh let's get rid of that where you know,
wow will be the next thing we lose. It's just
we are in a city that does not want to
make make the big decisions and have the big parties.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
I mean I actually agree with Nick a lot there.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
You know, there's not much that a council for example,
can do to change like the underlying economic conditions. But
one thing that you know could be done is is
kind of removing that red tape making it easier to
get food and drink licenses, some kind of stimulus not
stimulus package, but you know, some kind of subsidy to
get more awnings or to get more lighting onto the street.
(09:01):
I mean, I don't have a particular solution, but what
can we do to encourage landlords and business owners just
to put some more lights up around their buildings. Yeah,
that's the kind of stuff that can be done fairly cheaply,
I mean parklets. You know it's a one off application
fee of one hundred and ninety seven dollars and an
annual renewal fee of ninety nine dollars. I'm sure it
would cost you a lot more to rent that much
space if it was inside a building.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
This is just fun.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
I don't know where you got those figures from, because
I'm reading it on the post right now. Well I
made an application for one of my businesses for those part.
It's a lot more than ninety nine dollars. Oh my god,
you know how much it cost just to put the
five or six tables outside Hummingbird, well established, well respected
dining areas.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It cost a hell of a lot more than that.
You've got those figures wrong. Sorry.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
It's clearly a tough time for businesses in Wellington right now,
and the Public Service Association has come out and blamed
the government's public service cuts for the lack of people
coming to work. Is that a fair statement?
Speaker 3 (09:59):
No, I don't believe so. I think that it's had
some effect. Of course, it's had some effect if you
lose five thousand people. And you know, I tell the
story all the time I walked outside to one of
my restaurant, one of the little places the other month now,
a couple of months ago, and this forty year old couple,
you know, like mid late thirties, early forties, couple, lovely couple,
(10:20):
about to go in the restaurant. And as I was
walking out and they recognized me and said hello, I
didn't know who they were anyway, but anyway, long story short,
they said, we feel embarrassed going out for dinner. And
I thought they were talking about going into one, you know,
to my restaurant, and they were actually saying that they
felt embarrassed that they were going out for dinner because
some of their colleagues had lost their job. So there's
a whole snowballing effect and the scare the fright. You know,
(10:44):
if you're sitting next to someone and they've just lost
their job, what does that do to you?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
That makes you think? Wow? And when are my next?
Or could I be next?
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Gee?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
They were good at their job and I might lose
my job. There's a whole fear thing in the city,
and we've got to get over it. The city is beautiful.
This is the best city in the country, no question.
I just walked around the block before looking at it.
It's a beautiful city and it's been a funky city.
We had, you know, we were the coffee city of
New Zealand. We know we had the movies that you know,
(11:13):
we were it and now we're not.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Okay, you say we have to get over it. What
other options are there to help Wellington's economy?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Well, I mean, if you're asking me, I say, this
is where Tory could help us. I think Tory is
really stuck in the weeds. I reckon that she's surrounded
round by people that are telling her how good she is,
how her dress what do I call it?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
The Empress new clothes.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
She looks amazing, she's fantastic, and she's great, and she's
doing a great time. And by god, you're changing. You're
going to change Wellington forever. Right now, we need to survive.
We don't need to change. You know, we don't need
this massive golden mile. We don't need it. We need
to get what we've got back on track. We need
to get moving and then do all the big stuff.
(11:56):
And I think that that's where the problem. If you
want to mention Tory far, that's where the problem. She's
been surrounded with people that aren't giving you the right advice.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Nick. On top of the city's financial issues, there's also
toy Fano. You interviewed her last week, she revealed she'd
sold her car.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Do you actually feel what we as well Antonians are
feeling right now?
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (12:29):
Look, I don't want to downplay the privilege that I have,
right so, I am the mayor of the city. I
have a house, and I'm very thankful for that. However,
I've just sold my car recently to kind of.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Help pay the bills.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
A lot of people look at them, were like, oh,
to Fano is one hundred and ninety grand.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Does she really need to sell her card?
Speaker 4 (12:49):
I mean, did you need to actually sell a card
to pay the bills?
Speaker 7 (12:52):
No, I actually didn't. It's a shame because it was
taken out of context. It was an hour long interview.
You get a bit relaxed, I mean, the main as
it actually was because it's a walkable city. I don't
need a car living in the city center, so you know,
so why did you say otherwise? I? Well, no, what
I said was, yes, I've sold my car and made
(13:12):
some comments. What I do think is that it's been
completely blown out of proportion.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
What was your reaction to that statement initially and then
her changing her story after that.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Well, for someone that's myself personally sold three cars in
the last two years, I understand selling cars.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So and my reasons probably were.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Exactly the reason that Tory told us her reasons why
I needed some cash so I sold a car. This
is where the whole thing's got really out of hilter
for me. I just said to her, and I'm doing
it tough, and I am doing it tough. So I
admit to that, right. Business is tough, and I'm doing
it tough, and I'm trying to get through these hard
times at hospitalities suffering.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
So I said, do you really understand how tough it is?
Speaker 3 (13:54):
That's what I said to it, like just exactly the
same for Baita what I said, And she said, of course,
I understand. My mortgage is doubled. My you know I
have to sell my car. I know how hard it is, Nick,
And she looked me straight in the eyes, so I
just took it. Yeah, we're all on the same boat.
And just because she earns one hundred and ninety thousand
dollars a year doesn't mean that she might not be
doing it tough. You know, she might have the house
(14:14):
on one hundred percent mortgage, she might have other debts
she might have, you know, and I'm not getting into
that that's her problem. But I definitely believed when she
looked me in the eye and said, I know what
tough times are like.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
You know how I believed her.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Joel, you said that Farno has the political radar of
the ter teddy. Just how bad are things looking for
her at the moment one year out from the potential
re election campaign, and some of these issues were spoken
about a bit of a nail in the coffin for
that campaign.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
I think it's getting close to it. I mean that
interview with Nick and then the follow up interview with
Jack Team was just a bit of a rolling disaster.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
Really.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
You know, the Tori Fino just keeps putting her foot
on it when she doesn't need to. Whether she sold
her car or not, which you know, it sounds like
she did. The reason why she sold it that was
up to it.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
When you're a.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Politician earning one hundred and ninety K and you have
won lotto in the past, no one wants to hear
about you pretending like you have a normal financial struggle
and you know same for when you're a business owner
who owns five bars. People don't want to hear that.
Why don't want to so why would you even bring that?
Was that was the miss because as a politician it
(15:25):
just makes you look out of touch and you can't
relate to the ordinary financial financial circumstances of ordinary people.
It was poor political management and that's what she's had
a tendency to do, say things that get her in
trouble for no particular reason, and make some decisions around
the council table that seem to have very little political
upside and quite a lot of downside.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Really, the last two Wellington mayors only served one term.
Do you think Fanno will last past one term?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
I think I think she's going to struggle in the
re election. It will come down to who else is
in the race right now. The only other candidate is
Ray Hung, who I don't think is a particularly strong candidate.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
But I'm sure that more people will emerge.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
The biggest achievements that she can point to from this
council term is the district Plan which has allowed a
lot more housing and the continued cycleway roll out, but
neither of those are actually her projects. It was just
a continuation under her leadership. So I think she's just
going to struggle to identify what she can point to
that she's done and how Yeah, just like, what is
(16:25):
the what is the call to those Green or labor
aligned voters who might want to vote for her but
are kind of struggling to get over the line.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
I think that she's the front runner to win the
next election. Now.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I know that's going to ruffle a few feathers. I
don't think there's anyone that's you need to be an
ex all black or a very respected Wellington businessman to
put your businesswoman or businessman, preferably a business woman that
puts your name forward to win it. I think she's
hot favorite to win it again. I don't think she
needs to do anything apart from keep connected to the
Green Party to win.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
But the one thing that will be a downer for
her if.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
She expects everybody to use as a cycle way to
vote for her, then she won't get in because not
too many people use him.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
If the two of you could make your way onto
council next year, what would you like to see Wellington
do to turn its fortunes around.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Starting with you, Nick, I would green light it.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I've got a little tattoo on my risk under my
watch that says green light. So I would be like
Joel said, and I would just make everything so much
easier to do. I've become the yes city of New Zealand. Again,
we want to do If Peter Jackson knocks on my
door and he wants to do a movie, yes, where
do you want to do it? If the Racing Carnival
want to do a big racing meeting, Yes, where do
(17:33):
you want to do it? I would become the most
yes city in the country. And to go along with
the beauty of the country, that's all we need to do.
We just need to turn from a no naysay to
a yes, yes, yes, please, thank you, let's get on
with it.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
And what about you, Joel, I'm actually pretty much the
same answer. I think the Courtney Precinct project, which was
started by a bunch of bar owners, is one of
the most promising things we've seen. I think this could
be a potential opportunity to have some sort of different
by law covering that area. Yeah, just to say yes
to make it easier and easier and easier to get
food trucks out on the street, to have bars open late,
(18:09):
to make it easier to get licenses.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
This is what they did with the district plan, and
that's why that's so promising.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
They went from an incredibly restrictive set of housing rules
to an incredibly commissive one. Is it's now, you know,
you know, we're not seeing too much development because interest
rates are high, but it is. But we are seeing
more and we're seeing developers come out of the woodwork
and say, hey, I can build an apartment building here
now that I would not have been able to otherwise.
And we can just kind of take that lesson and
(18:35):
apply it to everything.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Nick and Joel, thanks for joining us that set for
this episode of the Front Page. You can read more
about today's stories and extensive news coverage at Inzet Herald
dot co dot endzet. The Front Page is produced by
Ethan Sells. Patty Fox is a sound engineer. I'm Susanne
or Quist. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or
(18:59):
where you get your podcasts, and tune in on Monday
for another look behind the headlines.
Cura. I'm Susie Nordquist and for Chelsea Daniels and this
is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by The
New Zealand Herald. Public Servants or what's left of them,
have been ordered back to the office in Wellington. The
government's call has been welcomed by central city businesses, who
say the absence of workers has impacted on their trade.
(00:30):
The decline of the city center is one of a
number of issues the capital is facing, including soaring costs
from rates and struggling council finances. Wellington mea Tori Farno
has not helped things after a week of conflicting statements
on selling her car that has caused a distraction. To
discuss the state of Wellington and its council today on
(00:50):
the front Page, we are joined by Newstalk ZB Wellington
host Nick Mills and Wellington editor for the spin off,
Joel McManus. Let's start with you, Nick. You own several
hospitality businesses in Wellington. Have you noticed a decline in
foot traffic and sales? And over what period?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Oh my gosh, I didn't think it was a comedy show.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Prea COVID we had nine hospitality Outfits as a family business.
Currently we're one, two, three, four and hoping to open
another one soon. So yeah, no, it's been It's not
even the same world that we live in.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Nick. What's it like being in business in Wellington at
the moment? For those who might be listening right now, it's.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Been a really horrific time. And I'm not blaming Torri
Faro for all of it, of course I'm not. I mean,
I'm blaming the world. We got COVID, that was the
first thing that stuffed it, and then we've got police
that are over zealous and trying to limit late licenses
and they're trying to do everything they can to stop
everyone from having a good time. You've got the health
boards that are actually objecting to licenses and getting into
(01:59):
businesses that they know nothing about and ruining people's lives.
So we've got a lot going on in Wellington and
in New Zealand, and we've got to fight through it
or lie down and get Bulldeauz a day.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
What about you, Joel, I've read commentary describing Wellington as
a ghost town on Mondays and Fridays? Is that how
you see things?
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I mean, Neck's absolutely right, Like Wellington's face just a
kind of horrendous series of events. One that's not talked
about enough is the twenty sixteen earthquake, which is just
kind of in the slow rolling disaster.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
More and more buildings shutting down, you know.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Obviously, COVID recession, public sector layoffs, there's just less economic
activity happening in the capitol. I think some of the
commentary is a bit overblown, to be honest, and I
think some of it comes from people who have a
certain incentive to talk Wellington down. I was out on
Saturday when the sun was out, and there's all these
beautiful new parklets along Dixon Street and.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
It was heaving with people.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
So I think a lot of people are kind of
just holding on for summer hope, hoping that things will
turn around.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
People want to get out there and do some more.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
But yeah, I mean there's no denying obviously that the
city's in a tough spot like many cities.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Joel, can you do be a favor Next time you
see anybody in a parklet, can you take a photo
of it and send it to me? Because you know
I'm in the trade and I'm in the business, and yes,
it might might have a few people in a parklant
on a beautiful day when there's no wind. But they
write songs about Wellington on those days they don't happen
that often, so I think the parklets are a complete
waste of time. And I used to own a bar
(03:26):
called The Tasting Room which had the biggest parklet in
Wellington on it, and I always used to look at
it frustratingly, saying it's peeing down with rain and customers
a driving pass and they can't park in the car
parks because I've got tables and chairs out there with
no one's sitting in them.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
I think you're being a bit delusional, Nick.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
You've just got a whole bunch of extra tables and
seats that I see a lot of people in all
the time. That surely is a lot cheaper than that
bit you paying rent for that facility, and what the.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Trade off is?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Do you know how much two car parks?
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Do you know any thirty extra seats? What are you
talking about, Joel?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Do you know how much those places pay for those
park lips?
Speaker 5 (04:01):
Do you know that?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
I do?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I can find the number like you give us the number,
and can I said to you, I asked you nicely,
could you take a photo when you see people in there?
Because I don't see people in them, and I am
a professional who works in the trade and is on
the streets every Friday and Saturdays and sometimes Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I mean, I don't really know how to have this
debate when sort of just kind of it's very clear
that people use the parklets like I have eyes. Sure
I can take some photos. I just think this is
a dumb thing to argue about, because this is just reality.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Okay, you've clearly got two very different views there, Joe,
who would have an incentive to talk Wellington down?
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Look, I mean, I think there's people obviously who don't
like some of the current council. You know, there's people
who don't like what the city represents politically and the
kind of people who work in this city. You know,
you actually see the same narrative in the US. You know,
the likes of Fox News like to talk down cities
that are known for being lefty, progressive cities San Francisco, Chicago,
that sort of thing.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
I'm just a bit bored of it.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
So people with different political views sometimes.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
What was introduced as a temporary measure during COVID four
years ago, is risks putting pressure on team performance, office culture,
and talent development.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
And while some swear by the benefits of working from
their kitchen table, others admit that routinely leaving the house
for work increases their motivation, focus, and productivity. There are
good reasons why office workers have traditionally been physically brought
together for work.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Moving on, what do you both make of the call
to order public servants back into the office. The government's
looking at this from a productivity point of view, But
is it the right move for the local economy.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
I mean, I think in the short term it's going
to be a boost, so I think it's kind of undeniable.
Having more people in the city and the office is
going to mean sales and cafes and after work drinks.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
But I kind of don't think a required.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Captured, captured market is a particularly good way to build
the economic base of a city. I think the answer
is going to have to be make the city a
better place to be, make it pleasant for customers to
go out, walk the streets, visit bars, make it more walkable,
and you know, just do the things that make businesses
and people want to be there. I just don't think
like requiring this stuff is the answer in the long term.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
How do you make it more attractive then.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Things like parklets obviously, pedestrianization, widening the footpaths one thing
I'd really like to see some investments. There's a lot
more lighting on awnings. You know, along Courtney Place in
Cuba Street, there's these random dark patches and there's little
things like that in terms of urban design that make
a big difference just in terms of it feeling safer
and more pleasant for people to go out and and
(06:55):
you know, like you might not think that's a big deal,
but you know, it just just plays on people's minds
a lot.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
And it's spend.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
It comes down to how long they want to spend out,
how much money they want to spend, how much they
want to go out and enjoy the city. Now.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
See, I love the idea Suzie of the awnings in
front of bars and restaurants. And we've got a little
tiny Mexican restaurant that we've asked the council three or
four times if we can put a nice little warning.
We've got a tiny little outside area we wanted to
put an awning over. Yeah, the answer is yes, but
you know what it's going to cost us. We've got
to apply for a license for the awning. Then we
have to pay a rental of nearly four thousand dollars
(07:28):
a year to have a little awning.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
That looks after two tables.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
So if you want to have a beautiful city, and
I agree with a lot of what Joel's saying about
making the city better, he's got no argument from me
on that. But the end of the day, those parklands.
If I wanted to put a park in front of
my little Mexican restaurant, that'll cost me about seven or
eight grand a year. Put the warning on. That's another
four ground. This is all money going to the council.
I think I'd rather pay my landlords some money to
(07:53):
have it inside and be able to use it all
the time.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So are you an affect saying that too much red
tape is sort of threatening the vine ability of businesses
in Wellington right now?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Absolutely, And but that's not a new problem. Let's not
say that this, let's not point that to to the
current council. That's been forever, but it does. It's always
been a city that's been difficult to get anything to
move or change. I mean, as soon as the part
the Seventh Party became too big, you know, the police
and the council said, oh we better stop doing that.
As soon as the motor car racing which was huge
(08:24):
in Wellington and New Zealand, as soon as that got
too big, oh let's get rid of that where you know,
wow will be the next thing we lose. It's just
we are in a city that does not want to
make make the big decisions and have the big parties.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
I mean I actually agree with Nick a lot there.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
You know, there's not much that a council for example,
can do to change like the underlying economic conditions. But
one thing that you know could be done is is
kind of removing that red tape making it easier to
get food and drink licenses, some kind of stimulus not
stimulus package, but you know, some kind of subsidy to
get more awnings or to get more lighting onto the street.
(09:01):
I mean, I don't have a particular solution, but what
can we do to encourage landlords and business owners just
to put some more lights up around their buildings. Yeah,
that's the kind of stuff that can be done fairly cheaply,
I mean parklets. You know it's a one off application
fee of one hundred and ninety seven dollars and an
annual renewal fee of ninety nine dollars. I'm sure it
would cost you a lot more to rent that much
space if it was inside a building.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
This is just fun.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
I don't know where you got those figures from, because
I'm reading it on the post right now. Well I
made an application for one of my businesses for those part.
It's a lot more than ninety nine dollars. Oh my god,
you know how much it cost just to put the
five or six tables outside Hummingbird, well established, well respected
dining areas.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It cost a hell of a lot more than that.
You've got those figures wrong. Sorry.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
It's clearly a tough time for businesses in Wellington right now,
and the Public Service Association has come out and blamed
the government's public service cuts for the lack of people
coming to work. Is that a fair statement?
Speaker 3 (09:59):
No, I don't believe so. I think that it's had
some effect. Of course, it's had some effect if you
lose five thousand people. And you know, I tell the
story all the time I walked outside to one of
my restaurant, one of the little places the other month now,
a couple of months ago, and this forty year old couple,
you know, like mid late thirties, early forties, couple, lovely couple,
(10:20):
about to go in the restaurant. And as I was
walking out and they recognized me and said hello, I
didn't know who they were anyway, but anyway, long story short,
they said, we feel embarrassed going out for dinner. And
I thought they were talking about going into one, you know,
to my restaurant, and they were actually saying that they
felt embarrassed that they were going out for dinner because
some of their colleagues had lost their job. So there's
a whole snowballing effect and the scare the fright. You know,
(10:44):
if you're sitting next to someone and they've just lost
their job, what does that do to you?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
That makes you think? Wow? And when are my next?
Or could I be next?
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Gee?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
They were good at their job and I might lose
my job. There's a whole fear thing in the city,
and we've got to get over it. The city is beautiful.
This is the best city in the country, no question.
I just walked around the block before looking at it.
It's a beautiful city and it's been a funky city.
We had, you know, we were the coffee city of
New Zealand. We know we had the movies that you know,
(11:13):
we were it and now we're not.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Okay, you say we have to get over it. What
other options are there to help Wellington's economy?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Well, I mean, if you're asking me, I say, this
is where Tory could help us. I think Tory is
really stuck in the weeds. I reckon that she's surrounded
round by people that are telling her how good she is,
how her dress what do I call it?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
The Empress new clothes.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
She looks amazing, she's fantastic, and she's great, and she's
doing a great time. And by god, you're changing. You're
going to change Wellington forever. Right now, we need to survive.
We don't need to change. You know, we don't need
this massive golden mile. We don't need it. We need
to get what we've got back on track. We need
to get moving and then do all the big stuff.
(11:56):
And I think that that's where the problem. If you
want to mention Tory far, that's where the problem. She's
been surrounded with people that aren't giving you the right advice.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Nick. On top of the city's financial issues, there's also
toy Fano. You interviewed her last week, she revealed she'd
sold her car.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Do you actually feel what we as well Antonians are
feeling right now?
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (12:29):
Look, I don't want to downplay the privilege that I have,
right so, I am the mayor of the city. I
have a house, and I'm very thankful for that. However,
I've just sold my car recently to kind of.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Help pay the bills.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
A lot of people look at them, were like, oh,
to Fano is one hundred and ninety grand.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Does she really need to sell her card?
Speaker 4 (12:49):
I mean, did you need to actually sell a card
to pay the bills?
Speaker 7 (12:52):
No, I actually didn't. It's a shame because it was
taken out of context. It was an hour long interview.
You get a bit relaxed, I mean, the main as
it actually was because it's a walkable city. I don't
need a car living in the city center, so you know,
so why did you say otherwise? I? Well, no, what
I said was, yes, I've sold my car and made
(13:12):
some comments. What I do think is that it's been
completely blown out of proportion.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
What was your reaction to that statement initially and then
her changing her story after that.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Well, for someone that's myself personally sold three cars in
the last two years, I understand selling cars.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So and my reasons probably were.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Exactly the reason that Tory told us her reasons why
I needed some cash so I sold a car. This
is where the whole thing's got really out of hilter
for me. I just said to her, and I'm doing
it tough, and I am doing it tough. So I
admit to that, right. Business is tough, and I'm doing
it tough, and I'm trying to get through these hard
times at hospitalities suffering.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
So I said, do you really understand how tough it is?
Speaker 3 (13:54):
That's what I said to it, like just exactly the
same for Baita what I said, And she said, of course,
I understand. My mortgage is doubled. My you know I
have to sell my car. I know how hard it is, Nick,
And she looked me straight in the eyes, so I
just took it. Yeah, we're all on the same boat.
And just because she earns one hundred and ninety thousand
dollars a year doesn't mean that she might not be
doing it tough. You know, she might have the house
(14:14):
on one hundred percent mortgage, she might have other debts
she might have, you know, and I'm not getting into
that that's her problem. But I definitely believed when she
looked me in the eye and said, I know what
tough times are like.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
You know how I believed her.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Joel, you said that Farno has the political radar of
the ter teddy. Just how bad are things looking for
her at the moment one year out from the potential
re election campaign, and some of these issues were spoken
about a bit of a nail in the coffin for
that campaign.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
I think it's getting close to it. I mean that
interview with Nick and then the follow up interview with
Jack Team was just a bit of a rolling disaster.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
Really.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
You know, the Tori Fino just keeps putting her foot
on it when she doesn't need to. Whether she sold
her car or not, which you know, it sounds like
she did. The reason why she sold it that was
up to it.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
When you're a.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Politician earning one hundred and ninety K and you have
won lotto in the past, no one wants to hear
about you pretending like you have a normal financial struggle
and you know same for when you're a business owner
who owns five bars. People don't want to hear that.
Why don't want to so why would you even bring that?
Was that was the miss because as a politician it
(15:25):
just makes you look out of touch and you can't
relate to the ordinary financial financial circumstances of ordinary people.
It was poor political management and that's what she's had
a tendency to do, say things that get her in
trouble for no particular reason, and make some decisions around
the council table that seem to have very little political
upside and quite a lot of downside.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Really, the last two Wellington mayors only served one term.
Do you think Fanno will last past one term?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
I think I think she's going to struggle in the
re election. It will come down to who else is
in the race right now. The only other candidate is
Ray Hung, who I don't think is a particularly strong candidate.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
But I'm sure that more people will emerge.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
The biggest achievements that she can point to from this
council term is the district Plan which has allowed a
lot more housing and the continued cycleway roll out, but
neither of those are actually her projects. It was just
a continuation under her leadership. So I think she's just
going to struggle to identify what she can point to
that she's done and how Yeah, just like, what is
(16:25):
the what is the call to those Green or labor
aligned voters who might want to vote for her but
are kind of struggling to get over the line.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
I think that she's the front runner to win the
next election. Now.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I know that's going to ruffle a few feathers. I
don't think there's anyone that's you need to be an
ex all black or a very respected Wellington businessman to
put your businesswoman or businessman, preferably a business woman that
puts your name forward to win it. I think she's
hot favorite to win it again. I don't think she
needs to do anything apart from keep connected to the
Green Party to win.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
But the one thing that will be a downer for
her if.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
She expects everybody to use as a cycle way to
vote for her, then she won't get in because not
too many people use him.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
If the two of you could make your way onto
council next year, what would you like to see Wellington
do to turn its fortunes around.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Starting with you, Nick, I would green light it.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I've got a little tattoo on my risk under my
watch that says green light. So I would be like
Joel said, and I would just make everything so much
easier to do. I've become the yes city of New Zealand. Again,
we want to do If Peter Jackson knocks on my
door and he wants to do a movie, yes, where
do you want to do it? If the Racing Carnival
want to do a big racing meeting, Yes, where do
(17:33):
you want to do it? I would become the most
yes city in the country. And to go along with
the beauty of the country, that's all we need to do.
We just need to turn from a no naysay to
a yes, yes, yes, please, thank you, let's get on
with it.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
And what about you, Joel, I'm actually pretty much the
same answer. I think the Courtney Precinct project, which was
started by a bunch of bar owners, is one of
the most promising things we've seen. I think this could
be a potential opportunity to have some sort of different
by law covering that area. Yeah, just to say yes
to make it easier and easier and easier to get
food trucks out on the street, to have bars open late,
(18:09):
to make it easier to get licenses.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
This is what they did with the district plan, and
that's why that's so promising.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
They went from an incredibly restrictive set of housing rules
to an incredibly commissive one. Is it's now, you know,
you know, we're not seeing too much development because interest
rates are high, but it is. But we are seeing
more and we're seeing developers come out of the woodwork
and say, hey, I can build an apartment building here
now that I would not have been able to otherwise.
And we can just kind of take that lesson and
(18:35):
apply it to everything.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Nick and Joel, thanks for joining us that set for
this episode of the Front Page. You can read more
about today's stories and extensive news coverage at Inzet Herald
dot co dot endzet. The Front Page is produced by
Ethan Sells. Patty Fox is a sound engineer. I'm Susanne
or Quist. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or
(18:59):
where you get your podcasts, and tune in on Monday
for another look behind the headlines.
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